Author Topic: Ella and Sergei 2  (Read 79236 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline imperial angel

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4608
    • View Profile
Re: Ella and Sergei 2
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2007, 04:02:31 PM »
Agreed. That should not have been the case yet it was. Perhaps part of was that with the other Romanovs, it was rather out in the open because it was there. As well, most members of the Imperial family were not as private as them. In addition, many of the more scandal ridden grand dukes took off for France and their life there, which was always nice though of little use to the dynasty. Sergei and Ella stayed in Russia, and their work was of great use to the dynasty, especially Ella. But, people always see the bad side of Sergei as governor general, not the good side.

Offline lori_c

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 685
    • View Profile
Re: Ella and Sergei 2
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2007, 05:10:29 PM »
In most cases those Grand Dukes were of no contribution to the dynasty.  More like a drain on the coffers.  But Ella and Sergei made signifcant contributions.  And Sergei had his own wealth inherited from his mother.  Making him accountable to nobody regarding spending money.

Offline imperial angel

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4608
    • View Profile
Re: Ella and Sergei 2
« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2007, 05:52:15 PM »
Indeed. But, they have gotten many more accolades from history, although sometimes they have just been ignored, which is more than fine. Sergei on the contrary never was self indulgent, whatever else you want to say, but he gets such bad press. Not that they have always gotten good press, but they are usually dismissed, whereas the allegations against Sergei are gone over and over. Even Ella gets her name tangled up in such things, although that was far from her. I wonder if she ever felt bitter, but then that wasn't her personality. Some people might have been...

Offline Eric_Lowe

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 17042
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Ella and Sergei 2
« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2007, 06:58:25 PM »
Yes...Olga A was squarely in Serge's camp. However I do not think Xenia and Sandro shared that opinion. Also Greek Minny can be a middle ground since she had no trouble with Serge, but did not dispel the rumours outright. The problem with Olga A was that she wasn't invloved in politics as other Grand Dukes were. As I have said Serge may have different sides to many people. There are stories of Serge cruelty to Jews and that has been documented. People who knew him spoke of his proudness and coldness. Felix Yussopv whose mother Zeneida was a close friend of Ella, never felt at ease with Serge. It also fit into the pattern of the story of Serge's elleged molestation of his nephew Dimitri (as Felix was his friend and also a beautiful child like Dimitri). Felix found Serge's attention on him very uncomfortable when he was a child. I am not saying that it was therefore the truth, but there is definitely sparks here for that story. Grand Duke Ludwig was very happy about Ella's marriage to Serge, but was thunder struck when she converted to Orthodoxy to be close to her husband, He wrote her a very painful letter. It seems that the simple minded duke did not believe his daughter would one day join her husband's church ? So much for his understanding of Serge (Serge was a very faithful Russian Orthodox believer)... ???

Offline lori_c

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 685
    • View Profile
Re: Ella and Sergei 2
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2007, 08:25:55 AM »
Indeed. But, they have gotten many more accolades from history, although sometimes they have just been ignored, which is more than fine. Sergei on the contrary never was self indulgent, whatever else you want to say, but he gets such bad press. Not that they have always gotten good press, but they are usually dismissed, whereas the allegations against Sergei are gone over and over. Even Ella gets her name tangled up in such things, although that was far from her. I wonder if she ever felt bitter, but then that wasn't her personality. Some people might have been...

No. Ella wasn't that type of person.  I agree.  She and Sergei more or less probably wondered why they were any more of a target than the rest of the family who actually HAD done things to warrant gossip and rumor.  More than likely their silence on their private live propelled the speculation and constant unfounded allegations.  When the court discovered they couldn't talk about the couple, the maybe just began to make things up based on a few things they actually DID know.  Especially about Sergei.

Offline lori_c

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 685
    • View Profile
Re: Ella and Sergei 2
« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2007, 08:29:03 AM »
Grand Duke Ludwig was very happy about Ella's marriage to Serge, but was thunder struck when she converted to Orthodoxy to be close to her husband, He wrote her a very painful letter. It seems that the simple minded duke did not believe his daughter would one day join her husband's church ? So much for his understanding of Serge (Serge was a very faithful Russian Orthodox believer)... ???

I think that GD Ludwig's opinion of Sergei was based on his memory of Sergei in his younger days.  Ella didn't immediately convert.  And it was certainly her own choice.  Sergei was pleased w/her decision, but by all accounts never insisted she convert.  This was something, I believe was deep inside Ella's own soul.  A need that Lutheranism didn't fill.  It also was a way to become closer to her husband.  Because, as you said, he was an extremely devout Orthodox believer. :)

Offline imperial angel

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4608
    • View Profile
Re: Ella and Sergei 2
« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2007, 09:30:49 AM »
Excellent point.  Sergei's contribution is continually overlooked. And you made a good point when you said that they didn't simply just enjoy themselves, living it up with no thought to consequence like other Romanovs yet their lives were up for more gossip and rumor than the Romanovs who actually DID those things. :)

Even I when I first read about Sergei as governor general I never knew the good parts of when he was this. I was surprised. I think he gets so maligned in history, that carrying over from when his reputation when he lived. It was overlooked both then and now. As for Ella, she is usually remembered for the things she did after her husband's death, although she is also remembered for her devotion to him, perhaps those two things most of all. She, I suppose, is remembered for things during his lifetime too, in Mosow, but not perhaps as much.

Offline lori_c

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 685
    • View Profile
Re: Ella and Sergei 2
« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2007, 12:25:35 PM »
I think during his lifetime she was renowned for her efforts for the sick and wounded in the Russo-Japanese War.  She also did much for women even before she became a nun.  Her devotion to Sergei was legend.

IMO, Sergei absolutely hasn't got a fair deal as far as history is concerned.  It would be so very interesting if only there were surviving writings belonging to the GD that still are in existence. ;)

Offline Eddie_uk

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2925
    • View Profile
Re: Ella and Sergei 2
« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2007, 01:15:06 PM »
Perdita, I am really enjoying your thougtful and interesting posts!! There are far to many posters waffling on about a lot of hot air, it makes it such a bore! :)
Grief is the price we pay for love.

FREE PALESTINE.

Offline lori_c

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 685
    • View Profile
Re: Ella and Sergei 2
« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2007, 02:05:28 PM »
Thanks for the complement.  :D  Unfortunately, not all of us are as smart and knowledgeable as perdita. :)
However, waffling and hot air don't seem to me to be an accurate picture of the discussions we've been having about Ella and Sergei.   

Offline Eric_Lowe

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 17042
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Ella and Sergei 2
« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2007, 07:39:27 PM »
Agreed totally with your point.  ;)

Offline Eddie_uk

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2925
    • View Profile
Re: Ella and Sergei 2
« Reply #26 on: February 07, 2007, 08:26:21 AM »
Thank you :) What comment would that be Eric??
Grief is the price we pay for love.

FREE PALESTINE.

Offline Eric_Lowe

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 17042
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Ella and Sergei 2
« Reply #27 on: February 07, 2007, 07:40:49 PM »
About the waffling and hot air... ;)

Offline imperial angel

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4608
    • View Profile
Re: Ella and Sergei 2
« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2007, 05:13:55 PM »
I think during his lifetime she was renowned for her efforts for the sick and wounded in the Russo-Japanese War.  She also did much for women even before she became a nun.  Her devotion to Sergei was legend.

IMO, Sergei absolutely hasn't got a fair deal as far as history is concerned.  It would be so very interesting if only there were surviving writings belonging to the GD that still are in existence. ;)

I think she has gotten criticized at times for her devotion to Sergei, and in fact this is done when when it is said as it was in other threads, about denial  and that she wasn't aware. I think because of his unfortunate reputation, that it is easy to look down on that devotion, which was stronger in my opinion than her love for him even. Of course, it is her devotion to his memory that is legendary, but her devotion during his lifetime was very real as well. Indeed, that is correct about Sergei, but he won't ever be given a fair deal, I don't feel.

Offline lori_c

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 685
    • View Profile
Re: Ella and Sergei 2
« Reply #29 on: February 08, 2007, 06:42:19 PM »
Charlotte Zeepvat's Camera & the Tsar's suggests that new things on GD Sergei are coming to light and may make it to some sort of publication.  One can only hope. ;)