Author Topic: Ella and Sergei 2  (Read 77038 times)

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Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Ella and Sergei 2
« Reply #30 on: February 08, 2007, 08:38:24 PM »
Either good things or bad... ;) It is good for more info coming out.

Offline lori_c

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Re: Ella and Sergei 2
« Reply #31 on: February 09, 2007, 10:11:23 AM »
As with other people in the saga of the Romanovs an oft repeated tale becomes as fact.  I think this was espeically true for Ella and Sergei.  Anything new by or about Sergei would contributed greatly to their story.  It certainly would be well deserved if it proved to rehabilitate his reputation as well as that of his marriage to Ella.

Offline imperial angel

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Re: Ella and Sergei 2
« Reply #32 on: February 12, 2007, 09:58:12 AM »
As with other people in the saga of the Romanovs an oft repeated tale becomes as fact.  I think this was espeically true for Ella and Sergei.  Anything new by or about Sergei would contributed greatly to their story.  It certainly would be well deserved if it proved to rehabilitate his reputation as well as that of his marriage to Ella.

Yes, the marriage of Ella and Sergei, and also the individual qualities of Sergei have been seen through the haze of myth and legend rather than fact. The myth of the marriage of Ella and Sergei is more pervasive than the real story. It is only when you look at it, past the rumors and the gossip that it becomes clear what it was really about. If only that could become clearer, through facts rather than by piercing through the myths and legends that surround that marriage, and what Sergei was like. I don't think you could say about many other men what you could say about Sergei, that there is the greatest contrast in the world between the private and the public record ( if rumors can be called so)with regards to him.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2007, 10:01:27 AM by imperial angel »

Offline lori_c

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Re: Ella and Sergei 2
« Reply #33 on: February 12, 2007, 01:03:36 PM »
IMO, there MUST be surviving writings of Ella and Sergei, though maybe not in Russia.  Sergei specifically gave instructions that all douments and personal writings belonging to him be destroyed upon his death which nodoubtidly, Ella complied.  But certainly there must be existing letters to Ella in Darmstadt Archives.  If so'  What a plethora of information!

Offline Helen

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Re: Ella and Sergei 2
« Reply #34 on: February 12, 2007, 03:48:42 PM »
But certainly there must be existing letters to Ella in Darmstadt Archives.  If so'  What a plethora of information!
They do have some letters written by Sergei at Darmstadt: about the death of Empress Marie in 1880, about his proposal of marriage - to Ludwig IV - and some letters to Ernst Ludwig. As far as I can see none of the letters preserved was addressed to Ella herself. Ella probably took his letters with her to Russia.
"The Correspondence of the Empress Alexandra of Russia with Ernst Ludwig and Eleonore, Grand Duke and Duchess of Hesse. 1878-1916"  -  http://www.bod.de/index.php?id=296&objk_
"Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig and Princess Alix of Hesse and by Rhine in Italy - 1893"

Offline lori_c

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Re: Ella and Sergei 2
« Reply #35 on: February 12, 2007, 05:20:45 PM »
Yes it would stand to reason huh?  I didn't even think about that. :)
Of course I know I would if it were me. I wonder if Sergei ever wrote to anyone outside Darmstadt that survives?


Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Ella and Sergei 2
« Reply #36 on: February 12, 2007, 08:42:19 PM »
Unlikely...The best bet is still in Russia.  ;)

Offline imperial angel

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Re: Ella and Sergei 2
« Reply #37 on: February 13, 2007, 10:24:14 AM »
Most of what we know about Ella isn't from surviving writings, I don't think. Nicholas and Alexandra wrote many letters to each other, and these survive, along with both their diaries, which are particularly useful about their courtship. Nicholas and Alexandra left many records of what type of marriage they had, that it was a love match. Yet, the marriage of Nicholas and Alexandra, in terms of politics or royal marriage of serving the country, was something of a disaster. In contrast, Ella and Sergei's marriage is barely documented at all, and there are certainly no diaries, nor I believe letters. In light of this, guesses about the perhaps unhappy nature of their marriage have abounded. But, it seems to me their marriage worked well politically, and as a royal marriage especially in terms of Moscow. This a interesting contrast to the marriage of Nicholas and Alexandra, and  it must be said that Sergei and Ella's marriage was happy, in its own way.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2007, 10:25:54 AM by imperial angel »

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Ella and Sergei 2
« Reply #38 on: February 13, 2007, 07:53:31 PM »
We may never understand it. It seemed unique...even then.  ???

Offline lori_c

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Re: Ella and Sergei 2
« Reply #39 on: February 14, 2007, 12:11:33 PM »
The mere privacy and silence that the couple maintained spawned most of what was only guessed upon and  rumoured about.  That's the problem.  They were such private people, it gave much room for rumourmongers regarding the status of their marriage and it's happiness or lack thereof.

Of all the GD, Sergei maintained what was perceived as cold and distant, but IMO it was his perception of how a Grand Duke should conduct himself and his private life.  As far as his politics, I'm not well versed as I prefer to concentrate on Sergei the man, not Sergei the Governor General. But, having had his father assassinated and the anti semitism that was prevalant at the time had a profound effect on how he ran Moscow.  This certainly doesn't justify it. But it is something to ponder. He was fiercely devoted to the policies of both his brother and his nephew.  Clearly this was rewarded as he was given the post in Moscow and rewarded the children of Paul at his request.

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Ella and Sergei 2
« Reply #40 on: February 14, 2007, 10:13:00 PM »
Well...Yes he was devoted to the policies of his brother and nephew. Yet unlike Alexander III, he did not let down his guard when he is on holiday. Alexander III became a gentle bear & giant when he went on holiday in Denmark. All the family loved him and he was a favourite of his nephew and nieces. Serge was very different. It would fit the bill if he was a closeted homosexual. As he never seemed to be at ease with himself and others. That is why he is not liked personally by members of his own family. I think they respect him rather than love him. However I believe Ella would have been the only one that ever come close in understanding the "real" nature of Serge.  ???

Offline imperial angel

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Re: Ella and Sergei 2
« Reply #41 on: February 15, 2007, 11:18:30 AM »
Sergei's politics seem to have been some of the problem of his image, but not all of it. Yet, I think family members didn't just respect him, I think they remembered him more fondly than that. There isn't one bad word they have to say, except for Alexander Mikhailovitch. Their words indicate fond loving memories, if perhaps distant ones, because he was such a private person. How was Ella remembered by the family, I know they remembered her well, but was it more love or was it respect?

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Ella and Sergei 2
« Reply #42 on: February 15, 2007, 07:44:41 PM »
But you have to remember that they also felt sorry for Ella being married to Serge. That does tell you something...Both Greek Minny & VMH liked Serge, but they did not feel that they know enough about Serge to defend him. There is always an aloofness in Serge's nature.  ???

Offline imperial angel

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Re: Ella and Sergei 2
« Reply #43 on: February 16, 2007, 12:54:10 PM »
Well, yes, but I only feel that was because she was such an outstanding woman that she would have been felt sorry for to be married to anyone not as great as her. Of course, Sergei and the rumors is a forever on and on subject, but he wasn't always going to look great in contrast to Ella. As well, the feeling sorry might have been speculation like ''maybe we should feel sorry if those things are true'', and they didn't know.

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Ella and Sergei 2
« Reply #44 on: February 19, 2007, 08:18:12 AM »
Well that tells you much about Serge's nature as even those closest do not understand.  :(