Author Topic: Anna Anderson and Anastasia  (Read 188655 times)

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rskkiya

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #585 on: November 15, 2004, 07:17:55 PM »
OK
Here is my problem...
   All the photos that I have seen of AA look  just like the photos of FS, or have been so retouched as to be almost "cartoons" !
    So where can I find good clear photos of both women - both FS and AA - to compare them to each other.

rskkiya

Offline Annie

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #586 on: November 15, 2004, 08:59:29 PM »
Yeah most of the pics Kurth shows are blurred or those ones of her biting her lip- to hide that she has such a bigger mouth and fatter lips than Anastasia had.

Offline Michelle

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #587 on: November 16, 2004, 10:55:50 AM »
Oh really?  None of the ones I've seen are blurred.  I believe that it was said that FS's picture was touched up to look like AA.  IMO AA's face is remarkably right e.g. cheekbones, etc.  (albeit of course some photos show her looking less similar, but I also have photos of myself that don't look like me at all).

Offline Denise

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #588 on: November 16, 2004, 12:57:02 PM »
I agree with Annie on this one.  So many of the AA photos are either "glamour shots" or the biting of her lip so it is hard to get an idea of her true appearance.  She rarely did a straightforward photo--either playing coy with the camera or making a face.

And I would like to see a good, unblurred photo of FS.  I've seen the 3 PK has up, and it is hard to say if any are original.  

The other thing, so much of the so-called resemblance between AA and Anastasia is based on photos that are deliberately positioned next to one another of the two of them.  I think a REAL resemblance would be apparent if any 2 photos were compared.  Moot point, though, thanks to the DNA testing....

Denise

rskkiya

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #589 on: November 16, 2004, 01:02:05 PM »
Are such unretouched photos available? They all seem to have been reworked to look like one person or another...

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #590 on: November 16, 2004, 01:18:35 PM »
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Another thing, AA was signed in at the Dalldorf asylum with an identity that translated into English meant; Unknown Russian woman. Why did they think she was Russian??


Evanescence ,

I thought "Freuilen Unberkant" just meant "Miss Uknown" where does the "Russian" part come from?

Also, Polish people are often mistaken for Russian, it is not that surprising that AA may have been too, if she was FS and Polish. It really is not as much of a stretch as it would have been if she were, say, French and mistaken for Russian.

Offline Annie

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #591 on: November 16, 2004, 01:20:17 PM »
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I agree with Annie on this one.  So many of the AA photos are either "glamour shots" or the biting of her lip so it is hard to get an idea of her true appearance.  She rarely did a straightforward photo--either playing coy with the camera or making a face.

And I would like to see a good, unblurred photo of FS.  I've seen the 3 PK has up, and it is hard to say if any are original.  

The other thing, so much of the so-called resemblance between AA and Anastasia is based on photos that are deliberately positioned next to one another of the two of them.  I think a REAL resemblance would be apparent if any 2 photos were compared.  Moot point, though, thanks to the DNA testing....

Denise


Thanks!

I'm going to post this again for you since you weren't around before, it's a collage of AA pics with the only known pic of FS in the middle:



While some claim the mouth was retouched, you can still the the basic facial shape and chin are the same as AA's, compared to Anastasia's much smaller mouth, thinner lips, and totally different chin:



The bone structure is just totally different.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Annie »

Offline Denise

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #592 on: November 16, 2004, 01:27:15 PM »
Annie, the bottom left and top right pictures of AA look so much like the photo of FS.  AS you say, even if the FS photo is retouched, you can't change the basic facial structure.  

I used to fervently believe that AA and Anastasia were the same person.  Now, even putting aside the DNA evidence, the photographic evidence is overwhelming.  AA is MORE similar to FS appearance than she ever was to GD Anastasia.

Denise

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #593 on: November 16, 2004, 01:39:00 PM »
Although some people seem to see a strong to mild resemblence betweem the two, I have to admit I don't see any at all, and never have. I remember before the DNA tests, when I read Peter Kurth's book and was still trying to figure this out, I was thinking, well it sounds like she may be Anastasia, but looking at the pictures I thought, she can't possible be - she looks so different! I can't find even one feature that resembles AN's, no matter how hard I try. I know some people are not going to like me saying this, but I grew up around a lot of Polish people, and  to me AA looks like a typical Polish lady, especially when she was in her 30's and 40's. But of course that's neither here nor there. The deciding factor for me, as it should be for everyone else, is the DNA evidence that showed that AA could not have possibly been Anastasia, even though it didn't prove that she was FS.  

Offline Annie

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #594 on: November 16, 2004, 02:02:48 PM »
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.  

I used to fervently believe that AA and Anastasia were the same person.  Now, even putting aside the DNA evidence, the photographic evidence is overwhelming.  AA is MORE similar to FS appearance than she ever was to GD Anastasia.

Denise


Me too.

Offline Elisabeth

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #595 on: November 16, 2004, 02:05:59 PM »
And I third - or is it fourth? - that. AN looks like FS, even without consideration of the DNA tests (which are definitive, in my opinion).
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Offline Denise

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #596 on: November 16, 2004, 02:20:26 PM »
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And I third - or is it fourth? - that. AN looks like FS, even without consideration of the DNA tests (which are definitive, in my opinion).


You meant AA, not AN, correct?  :)  And yes, I think the DNA is definitive also.

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #597 on: November 16, 2004, 05:06:02 PM »
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Evanescence ,

I thought "Freuilen Unberkant" just meant "Miss Uknown" where does the "Russian" part come from?

Also, Polish people are often mistaken for Russian, it is not that surprising that AA may have been too, if she was FS and Polish. It really is not as much of a stretch as it would have been if she were, say, French and mistaken for Russian.


Oh, I read it in Peter Kurth Biography of AA. Also they labelled her Russian because she spoke poor German with a typical Russian accent.
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Offline Evanescence

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #598 on: November 16, 2004, 05:23:50 PM »
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Although some people seem to see a strong to mild resemblence betweem the two, I have to admit I don't see any at all, and never have. I remember before the DNA tests, when I read Peter Kurth's book and was still trying to figure this out, I was thinking, well it sounds like she may be Anastasia, but looking at the pictures I thought, she can't possible be - she looks so different! I can't find even one feature that resembles AN's, no matter how hard I try. I know some people are not going to like me saying this, but I grew up around a lot of Polish people, and  to me AA looks like a typical Polish lady, especially when she was in her 30's and 40's. But of course that's neither here nor there. The deciding factor for me, as it should be for everyone else, is the DNA evidence that showed that AA could not have possibly been Anastasia, even though it didn't prove that she was FS.  


Yes, it's true when you just see AA's pictures and AN's pictures seperately. But when you put certain ones together, it matches like crazy, it's even scary. On Peter Kurth's biography on AA and FS the picture of AA's ears and AN's ears were shown. That was seriously freaky. Maybe AA wasn't AN but to me she certainly wasn't Franziska. They might look a bit alike but the noted by the family (they weren't told of AA's hair color) they said FS's hair was very dark, almost black. While AA's hair was dirty blonde with a redish tint. Noted by the Schanzkowsa family the personalities were very much alike. Gertrude also said that FS had no special birthmarks or scars. AA and AN had many. The scar on the forehead, the IDENTICAL ears, the hallux vulgas (which by no means is very common), and the scar on the back where a mole was removed. Also two people cannot have the same memory unless they were told by someone, or were witnesses. AA and AN had the same memory. Oh and even AA's enemies (one of AA's relatives, Princess Nina I think) said AA could speak Russian and French very well and also said she couldn't be a Poilsh peasant because of her royal personality. Here I quote from Peter Kurth;

Quote
DNA tests tell us nothing about "Franziska Schanzkowska.”   They don't explain how she spoke "more English than German" already in the early 1920s [28], or how she arrived in America in 1928 speaking fluent English, having had only the most rudimentary "lessons" in the form of Mother Goose rhymes.  [29]  They don't explain her intimate acquaintance with the history, customs and lore of the Romanov family and every royal house of Europe; how she could deal with hotel staff in French [30]; play the piano with or without sheet music; walk, sit, stand or offer her hand in exactly the home-trained manner [31]; how she recognized members of the Romanov family just by the sound of their voices [32]; "walked through the garden calling the flowers by their quaint Russian names," etc.


Oh and another thing, Gertrude was the only relative who said AA was FS and that was during a non-voluntary (she was basically forced to) confrontation.

Eeeekk, I found out something even more freaky. When AA met An's childhood nurse she called her by her nickname only used by her and put perfume on her face. A old ritual that only AN's nurse and AN shared... The mystery continues...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Evanescence »
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Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #599 on: November 16, 2004, 07:38:52 PM »
Yes, these certainly are questions that have not been  answered, and it would be interesting to find out what the story is, but this doesn't change the fact that AA's DNA showed that she could not have been AN. I am not going to insist that she was FS because you can't prove that with DNA, but she most certainly was not Anastasia...

Also, when I mentioned before that I didn't see any resemblence between AA and AN, this actually was exactly what I was doing - looking at photos of AA and AN side to side and comparing them and this is when I saw absolutely no resemblence. I mean none at all. I wanted to see it, but I just didn't. There wasn't even one feature on her face that was the same. I know they say she had very similar ears but that really didn't do it for me. We can't accept ear evidence as opposed to DNA evidence, ear comparison and handwriting comparison are not scientific evidence, even if some people may feel that they are.  So regardless all those things you mentioned, I have to go with the scientific evidence as well as my own two eyes.  :o  :)