Author Topic: Anna Anderson and Anastasia  (Read 174537 times)

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Offline Annie

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #615 on: November 18, 2004, 06:15:13 AM »
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Please examine the ears for yourself:

http://www.peterkurth.com/PHOTOS.htm

You will notice that the lobe on AA's ear is much thicker than that of AN's.

Also, 3 photos beneath the ear comparison photos, there's one of AA side-on. THIS photo shows her ear is nothing like that of Anastasia's.


Thanks Alice, I never thought so either. Besides, it isn't accurate to compare a living woman's ear with an old black and white photo that had been enlarged. There was no way to get a fair example of what the real Anastasia's ear looked like. I guess that's why the court didn't put much stock in it.

As for the 'identical' body markings someone mentioned, what is that? That speculation of what injuries AN might or could have recieved in Ekaterinburg matched with what was on AA"s body? Isn't that only speculation?

Also, 2 of Anastasia's most well known scars were NOT on AA- the forehead scar she used bangs to cover (AA never used bangs) and her damaged little finger from when Nicholas shut it in a carriage door when she was only 3.

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to AA believers: how do you explain the much fuller lips? Collagen injections, perhaps?


Oh didn't you know, being beaten in the face by the Bolsheviks gives you a fat lip that never goes away;) Sorry, but seriously, the wider mouth and fuller lips are big giveaways that is NOT AN's mouth.


IlyaBorisovich

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #616 on: November 18, 2004, 03:31:49 PM »
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Oh didn't you know, being beaten in the face by the Bolsheviks gives you a fat lip that never goes away;)


It astounds me that, even after all that's transpired here in the past week or so regarding these snide, sniping comments, you can still be contemptuous of anyone who doesn't believe what you know to be true.  Isn't being the queen of the playground enough for you, or must you continue to mock those who disagree with you?  Grow up!

Ilya
(part of the agenda/conspiracy)  Whew!  Feels good to get out of that closet!

Offline Elisabeth

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #617 on: November 18, 2004, 03:49:08 PM »
Whenever I read these Anastasia/Anna Anderson threads I always think someone should write a serious novel about AA, with all kinds of existential themes about identity, because this topic invariably and inevitably becomes so emotional on all (I won't even say both) sides - clearly there is some larger issue at stake for most of us when we argue about it! Doesn't it all seem highly symbolic of something?... Something really important?... I'm just not sure what, or I would write the novel myself!

If anyone agrees with me about this, let's start a new thread. Why does AA move us so, to anger or to pity, even if we don't believe she is AN? Why does she move us to similarly deep emotions if we DO believe she is AN? Why do we get so worked up? What's going on?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Elisabeth »
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because I have seen no other

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Offline Denise

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #618 on: November 18, 2004, 04:05:39 PM »
Great idea Elisabeth!!  All the drama here lately has gotten me to thinking about these same issues...

Denise

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #619 on: November 18, 2004, 04:06:38 PM »
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Whenever I read these Anastasia/Anna Anderson threads I always think someone should write a serious novel about AA, with all kinds of existential themes about identity, because this topic invariably and inevitably becomes so emotional on all (I won't even say both) sides - clearly there is some larger issue at stake for most of us when we argue about it! Doesn't it all seem highly symbolic of something?... Something really important?... I'm just not sure what, or I would write the novel myself!

If anyone agrees with me about this, let's start a new thread. Why does AA move us so, to anger or to pity, even if we don't believe she is AN? Why does she move us to similarly deep emotions if we DO believe she is AN? Why do we get so worked up? What's going on?


Elisabeth, I strongly agree with you. I noticed that this type of thing doesn't really happen on other threads, at least not to such an extent. I mean, why do people get so personally involved with all this, it's not like we even knew this woman and not like it will make any difference at all to any of us whether she was AN or not. I find myself getting caught up in all this too, and I am not even sure why. I also think there should be a separate thread about this and people who have been involved in these discussions and others who want to express an opinion about this, can come on it and reflect and vent about what they think. It will be like group therapy  ;). But hopefully this thread won't cause any more fights to break out! :o

Offline Annie

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #620 on: November 18, 2004, 04:08:24 PM »
ME the 'Queen of the playground?' No way. I've also been bullied and thrown off on here too. And speaking of 'growing up' I think quite a few AA supporters need to stop having tantrums and running off because people post things they don't want to see.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Annie »

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #621 on: November 18, 2004, 04:24:15 PM »
BTW, I just looked at Peter Kurth's website for the first time and for the first time saw the AA/AN pictures there. I think I understand now. It seems that the pictures that most resemble each other were specifically chosen to be put up there side by side. Some have similar hair styles (like the one where AA has bangs like AN) and some similar facial expressions. So this way I do see the resemblence. But this just simply isn't fair. I have seen many other pictures of AA and none of them resembled AN, but these selected ones do because they were very carefully chosen, it seems. This by no means can be accepted as evidence because human mind can play all kinds of visual tricks on us when it comes to things like this. This is why the only evidence I will accept is DNA, and I don't really care what anyone thinks of me.  

AnastasiaFan

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #622 on: November 18, 2004, 04:33:45 PM »
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and I don't really care what anyone thinks of me.  


LOL, you sound like me now. Anyway, you're right, DNA is the only way to know for sure, and the DNA clearly shows that AA was *NOT* Anastasia. DNA aside, I think that one picture in Kurth's Tsar book which shows AA in front and then in profile is also CLEAR evidence that she wasn't the Grand Duchess. She didn't look anything like Anastasia. Okay, that's all I'm going to say. I always tell myself I won't get involved with the AA threads!

Offline Annie

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #623 on: November 18, 2004, 04:49:34 PM »
Lol, I have long since given up on caring what people think of me. I used to, but it never did any good anyway.

Offline Janet_W.

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #624 on: November 18, 2004, 04:49:54 PM »
Elisabeth, a thread about why we find the Anastasia question so very involving--to the point of figurative fistfights--seems very right on.

I think the 1956 film respresents some of those reasons quite well. Extreme loss . . . and the need to reclaim that which was taken away from you. The need to be recognized . . . maybe even loved.

On the other side, the anger one feels when advantage is taken of those who want, so very, much something to be true. Plus the anger felt towards those who bilk and deceive.

And a third category . . . How some people become so caught up in the fantasy they've created, that fantasy--for them--takes on its own reality.

By the way, if anyone saw The Affair of the Necklace--a  film from three or four years ago based on an infamous hoax which helped take down Marie Antoinette--these themes are also explored, albeit in a somewhat different contex.

Offline Forum Admin

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #625 on: November 18, 2004, 04:54:13 PM »
Let me interject one point here, that sometimes gets lost, and I think leads to some of the frustration on both sides.

"Ear shape" or facial resemblance is SUBJECTIVE. People see, or don't see, what they EXPECT. Remember my experiment where I posted my great aunt's photo, and 75% of you saw a resemblance, because, contextually you expected the photo to "be" someone.

DNA is OBJECTIVE. It doesn't matter who does the testing, or their motives. The science is what it is. Anyone can repeat it and get the same answer.

So, for those who say "DNA aside"...you stray back into the realm of subjective analysis, and will argue forever, letting your mind decide what your eyes are seeing...

IMHO.

Offline Michelle

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #626 on: November 18, 2004, 06:36:39 PM »
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ME the 'Queen of the playground?' No way. I've also been bullied and thrown off on here too. And speaking of 'growing up' I think quite a few AA supporters need to stop having tantrums and running off because people post things they don't want to see.



Annie, I DO NOT recall ANY time when you were harrassed to the extent that oh, say, YOUR OWN ripping apart and absolute NASTY SLANDER was placed upon a credible researcher.  YOU try to undermine ANYONE who comes across your virulently anti-AA path NO MATTER WHO THEY ARE!  THAT to me, really says something about you, dear.  You have no idea how many newbies you scare away from these threads because of your CONSTANT b******ness.  I get emails numerous times from newbies saying how scared they are to post on here because they just happen to be supportive of AA.  

Now I know you clearly don't care what people on this board think of you, but how about in the real world?  I certainly hope for your sake that you conduct yourself in just an infinitesimally more likeable manner.  If not, I honestly can't see how you can possess ANY friends. That's sad.

Offline Annie

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #627 on: November 18, 2004, 06:59:14 PM »
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Annie, I DO NOT recall ANY time when you were harrassed to the extent that oh, say, YOUR OWN ripping apart and absolute NASTY SLANDER was placed upon a credible researcher.  YOU try to undermine ANYONE who comes across your virulently anti-AA path NO MATTER WHO THEY ARE!  THAT to me, really says something about you, dear.  You have no idea how many newbies you scare away from these threads because of your CONSTANT b******ness.  I get emails numerous times from newbies saying how scared they are to post on here because they just happen to be supportive of AA.  

Now I know you clearly don't care what people on this board think of you, but how about in the real world?  I certainly hope for your sake that you conduct yourself in just an infinitesimally more likeable manner.  If not, I honestly can't see how you can possess ANY friends. That's sad.


Well you haven't exactly been the sweetest thing yourself, dear. And I have had plenty of emails and PM's of people telling me they agree with me but don't want to get into a fight. I don't see what I have done other than express my opinions and evidence against AA. If you don't want to hear them, ignore them.

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #628 on: November 18, 2004, 07:10:09 PM »
And this is why, ladies and gentlemen, we need a "group therapy" thread!  ;)

Offline Denise

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #629 on: November 18, 2004, 07:18:06 PM »
Yes Helen, we do  ;D.  I think (JMHO, no flames, please  ::))
that there comes a point in academic discussions where further insistance on our viewpoint is futile.  We need to respectfully agree to disagree after a certain point.  It is clear that many posters here are aware of the viewpoints of the "serial posters." Therefore, the need come back with the last word over and over is kind of annoying.  

I am NOT saying anyone poster does this, as I am guilty of it on other, non-academic, bulletin boards.  Most of us who have been studying the Romanovs for a long time have valid reasons that we believe what we do.  No one else's research is the same as our own, so it is doubtful we will be convinced to another's viewpoint just by their say so.

This being said, I LOVE the give and take and exchange of ideas here.  I am a newbie, but not scared off in the least!!  8)

Denise