Author Topic: Anna Anderson and Anastasia  (Read 171563 times)

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Offline Annie

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #630 on: November 18, 2004, 07:21:12 PM »
It is weird there are more heated posts over this topic than there are over anything else, even pro or anti Bolshevik stuff or the revolution itself!

It reminds me of a music forum I'm on, where there is one album that people fight over. There are 14 albums by the band, and if people like or dislike any of the rest of  them but that one it's no big deal. But if that one is discussed all hell breaks loose! People insult each other, call each other stupid, mentally inept, even cussing (which is allowed there) The threads usually end up closed. I have never seen such a reaction on any album by them or any other band!

The thing is, it was their least popular album. The people who like it insult those who didn't like it, that they were insufficient, like the "Emperor's New Clothes" thing, which offends them, and they insult the album and remind them how many people hated it and how poorly it sold, and the personal attacks get worse.

I have tried to analyze why the feelings of it were so strong. One person posted that when you insult the album, it's like insulting your opinion and therefore you personally. I can't understand that, it's only a cd and we all have different preferences. But it's fiercely defended by those who like it, and they HATE the people who try to point out its faults and failures. It must be something like that with this topic, it's something people take personally. Weird parallel, but it's the only other subject that matches what happens here I've ever seen.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Annie »

Offline Denise

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #631 on: November 18, 2004, 07:32:25 PM »
Quote

I have tried to analyze why the feelings of it were so strong. One person posted that when you insult the album, it's like insulting your opinion and therefore you personally. I can't understand that, it's only a cd and we all have different preferences. But it's fiercely defended by those who like it, and they HATE the people who try to point out its faults and failures. It must be something like that with this topic, it's something people take personally. Weird parallel, but it's the only other subject that matches what happens here I've ever seen.


Annie, it is also what I see on many parenting boards, regarding Work at Home moms vs Stay at Home moms, or whether or not to let a baby cry it out at night to get to sleep.  Rather than admit that people have the right to differing views, I think people internalize their beliefs to the point that any words against them becomes a personal attack, as you stated above.  

Anyway, you are right.  Although I used to be very pro-AA, I realized upon the release of the DNA evidence that it was a pipedream (for me at least  :) ).  It would be nice if part of the IF had survived, but not too likely.  And I have no personal investment in the answer, either way.  It is an academic question, albeit a fascinating one.

Denise

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #632 on: November 18, 2004, 07:34:21 PM »
Hey, I want to know what album that is that everyone is so passionate about! I guess every discipline has it's own "Anna Anderson" ;D!

Offline Annie

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #633 on: November 18, 2004, 07:36:37 PM »
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Annie, it is also what I see on many parenting boards, regarding Work at Home moms vs Stay at Home moms, or whether or not to let a baby cry it out at night to get to sleep.


Oh yes, I've seen that one go down in a Letters to the Editor battle in my newspaper. It does get heated!


Quote
 Rather than admit that people have the right to differing views, I think people internalize their beliefs to the point that any words against them becomes a personal attack, as you stated above.  


Anyway, you are right.  Although I used to be very pro-AA, I realized upon the release of the DNA evidence that it was a pipedream (for me at least  :) ).  It would be nice if part of the IF had survived, but not too likely.  And I have no personal investment in the answer, either way.  It is an academic question, albeit a fascinating one.

Denise


I agree :) and I'm going to get offline now, so everyone say whatever you want, I won't comment! :D

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #634 on: November 18, 2004, 07:51:48 PM »
So basically it is human nature to have disputes about everything and break up into opposite camps. Sorry - I am going to go off topic a little, but this reminds me of Gulliver's Travels, when two warring nations of the Lulliputians were asked what they were fighting about. No one remembered until they found a very ancient man who knew. It turned out that many years ago, before any of those involved were alive, the heir to throne at the time, being a small child, broke a hard boiled egg on the narrow side of the egg and cut himself, so his father the king made a law that all subjects must break their eggs on the wider side. Some people were ok with that, and some didn't like it so a rebellion broke out and they created their own nation and have been at war ever since. But of course no one remembered anymore why they were fighting. I think this is the way this story went, I may have forgotten the details, but you get the gist... Anyway, there is a moral to this story somewhere, although I think we still remember what we are fighting about... ;) ;D

jeremygaleaz

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #635 on: November 18, 2004, 08:01:19 PM »
HHMMMM.....

FS's sister Gertrude testified that FS was NOT wounded in the grenade explosion...I had overlooked that...

Also, there may be another piece of objective evidence listed in FS's files that we could be overlooking (though it wouldn't be as good as fingerprints)

Medical records do, more often than not, record a person's HEIGHT.....

Jeremy  

Offline Michelle

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #636 on: November 18, 2004, 08:04:08 PM »
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Well you haven't exactly been the sweetest thing yourself, dear. And I have had plenty of emails and PM's of people telling me they agree with me but don't want to get into a fight. I don't see what I have done other than express my opinions and evidence against AA. If you don't want to hear them, ignore them.


Annie, are you absent-minded or something?  Did you TOTALLY forget how terrible you treated Penny Wilson?  Why didn't you take YOUR OWN ADVICE and IGNORE HER POSTS if YOU didn't like them?  I really can't imagine how you must treat people if they dare to disagree with your opinions.  Maybe you should've been bullied a little back on that playground of your youth.

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #637 on: November 18, 2004, 08:15:33 PM »
Quote
HHMMMM.....

FS's sister Gertrude testified that FS was NOT wounded in the grenade explosion...I had overlooked that...

Also, there may be another piece of objective evidence listed in FS's files that we could be overlooking (though it wouldn't be as good as fingerprints)

Medical records do, more often than not, record a person's HEIGHT.....

Jeremy  


Jeremy, from what I understand, FS is reported to have been a good 4 inches taller than AA (around 5'6" to AA's 5'2"). Now, this is just a shot in the dark, but can TB of the bones effect someone's height, like say, osteoporosis can? I know that AA was suffering from it for many years, could it have "shrunk" her height or changed her bone structure at all? I don't know anything about that and I know it sounds kind of dumb, but we've all heard of stranger things happening...

rskkiya

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #638 on: November 18, 2004, 08:25:42 PM »
Hey

Michelle.... Annie
PLEASE! Lets please play nicely ok?

Michelle both you and Annie have always had very strong opinions and while you two do not always agree on many topics (just as you and I do not always see "eye to eye" :) ) you are both mature enough to look beyond this. ;D
As far as I know "Penny Wilson" is on holiday/writing a new book/asleep/at a party... she may even be here now -- it is not important!
IF she is not posting now that is her decision and she is a big girl who can take care of herself...

rskkiya

Offline Denise

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #639 on: November 18, 2004, 08:36:42 PM »
Quote

Michelle.... Annie
PLEASE! Lets please play nicely ok?

Michelle both you and Annie have always had very strong opinions and while you two do not always agree on many topics (just as you and I do not always see "eye to eye" :) ) you are both mature enough to look beyond this. ;D



Here, here, rskkiya, well said.  Can't we all just let this go?  We can disagree on this.  The more we keep re-hashing all the bad feelings, the less we can learn from each other.  

Let's play nice, OK?

Denise

rskkiya

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #640 on: November 18, 2004, 08:46:30 PM »
Spasibah...
    Anyway, about the whole "metaphorical fistfight over who was AA" issue, I think that Helen A has a fine point -- Why do we care? I suppose I find bad science and conspiracy theories much more annoying than anything else-- perhaps that's my "thorn"...

My interest in the whole 'Romanov clan" is really very secondary to my passion for information about the revolution.

rskkiya


Offline Denise

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #641 on: November 18, 2004, 08:56:52 PM »
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My interest in the whole 'Romanov clan" is really very secondary to my passion for information about the revolution.

rskkiya



I commend you for this.  I am just beginning to delve into the political aspects of Russia during the reign of Nicholas II.  I got interested while young in AA, and now that DNA is proven her to be someone other than a member of the IF, I am trying to understand exactly how Russia became such a powderkeg.  

And I think that "why we care" is because of the nature of AA's claim.  She had so many supporters, and seemed to live the part.  If she wasn't royalty, then who was she?  And how did she pull this off.  And because of the newness of the science of DNA, some believers have a hard time accepting it, because it would mean ALL those other witnesses, supporters, and experts would have to be wrong.  

I think emotions are running a bit too high here, though.

Denise  :)

Offline Forum Admin

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #642 on: November 18, 2004, 08:58:20 PM »
JEEZZZZ.
OK another thread locked because you people just can not seem to get along.

I am so sick of having to be playground monitor for people who take things too personally and behave toward others in a manner the would never tolerate towards themselves.

STOP IT. NOW. all y'all.