Author Topic: Anna Anderson and Anastasia  (Read 181951 times)

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Offline Alexa

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #510 on: October 11, 2004, 04:18:36 PM »
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To all.

Hey, I suggested earlier for someone to make a detailed mathematical study of both Anna A. and Anastasia N.s' faces. Something on the lines of the study done on the Egyptian Sphinx by that NYC detective forensic artist. I saw it on National Geographic a while ago....

...Now we have so many artists on this web site I'm sure someone could take on the study. Best regards. JonC.


Heck, I still want to see computer aging of AN to middle-age and de-aging of AA to childhood.

Alexa

Offline Sergei

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #511 on: October 11, 2004, 06:39:34 PM »
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I have not served in the forces but I honour his memory by continuing the tradition by being a Royalist.
You do this just because your father did? Aren't you your own person? Are you not able to think for yourself?

And another abrasive little secret, I go horse racing a lot and when I pass the Queen [HM The Queen is at most of the big meetings] I bow, I bow to her and her Office.


Do you see lots of upper class bluebloods there? The Queen is nothing more than an archaicfigurehead who symbolises British Imperialism and the grossly unjust class system. Why should she live in  a wonderful palace, have people bowing and kissing her shadow just because she was born into that position?

                                                                                             

I'm sorry, I couldn't resist.  ;D


Hi Olga
Just out of curiosity,  what is someone with your anti-royalist views doing on a discussion board about a royal (well, imperial) family? Do you feel the same way about the Romanovs? If you follow your opinions about the Queen through weren't the Romanovs  too symbols of a grossly unjust class system etc etc?  Or did the fact they died tragically redeem them in your eyes?

Offline Olga

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #512 on: October 12, 2004, 02:25:28 AM »
I know, I'm a bit confusing. I feel the same way about the Romanovs as I do the Queen. Thier deaths did not redeem them in my eyes. I'm just interested in Imperial Russia. What I said about the Queen and the British class system equally applies to Imperial Russia. It's a bit of a paradox that I find royalty so interesting yet I'm quite the leftie.  ;D

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #513 on: October 12, 2004, 06:59:32 AM »
You are not alone there, Olga !
Cheers,
Robert
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline Evanescence

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #514 on: October 12, 2004, 12:16:29 PM »
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Heck, I still want to see computer aging of AN to middle-age and de-aging of AA to childhood.

Alexa


Is this what you're looking for?

http://www.geocities.com/kransnoeselo/Front.html
Ashlee Simpson lip synching at SNL? Damn, that liar!

Offline Alexa

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #515 on: October 12, 2004, 06:43:40 PM »
Quote

Is this what you're looking for?

http://www.geocities.com/kransnoeselo/Front.html


No.  I mean to take a picture of AN and age her the way the authorities age missing children to see what they would like at a certain age.  I'm interested to see what AN would have looked like at, say, age 30.

On the other side, I'd like to take a pic of AA and de-age her to see what she would have looked like at, oh I don't know, maybe 10.  I'm curious to see AA would have looked like AN as a child, and to see if AN would have looked like AA as an adult.  Any comparison would of course be purely one's own opinion, but my curiosity is peeked.

Alexa

Offline Annie

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #516 on: October 12, 2004, 07:53:00 PM »
I don't think the things about Franziska's family denying her hold much weight, there were reasons for that. Read the "Schanskowska family" thread here on this forum.

I would also love to see an aged AN and deaged AA pictures. It might finally stop all this. In her very last pic, I mistook Anastasia for her Aunt Olga A. I think she would have looked more like her if she had lived.

Offline Sergei

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #517 on: October 12, 2004, 07:56:14 PM »
Hi everyone, such a fascinating discussion. I guess we all have one or two incidences which seem to confirm or deny for us the possibility that AA may have been G.D Anastasia. For some it's a photo that looks like Anastasia or doesn't or a book which states something that adds to or detracts from the case. A story which stays in my memory is this but before I start it I must apologise for not being able to cite the source as it was some years ago. (Annoying I know!) All I can recall is that it was the autobiography of an American woman who had lived in Russia before the Revolution. She may have been a diplomat's wife. Here goes...
At the opera or the ballet her box was adjacent to that of the Imperial Family and she watched as Anastasia ate chocolates from a box thereby getting her gloves stained. During the interval she heard Anastasia humming a tune which was quite haunting and unknown to the author. She must have asked someone with her or perhaps even talked to Anastasia as she learned that the song was an obscure Russian folk tune about a girl who lost a doll. Years later in the 1920s the author was walking along a country path through some woods on Long Island when she came upon another woman, quite bizarrely dressed, sitting under a tree. What struck the author was that the woman was humming the same obscure tune as GD Anastasia had been all those years ago!
Later she mentioned to her hosts about the strange woman she had seen and they suggested that it may have been the woman claiming to be Anastasia who was staying at a nearby estate. (Perhaps it was the time when the claimant was staying with Mrs Leeds on Long Island?)
I know, I know .....mere coincidence, this proves nothing, especially with no quoted source but for some reason it has stayed with me.


Offline Forum Admin

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #518 on: October 13, 2004, 09:38:35 AM »
Im locking this thread. It has gotten too big.
Please start a specific new thread for anything else you want to bring up!
Thanks
FA

Offline Michelle

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #519 on: October 13, 2004, 10:31:01 AM »
Hi everyone!!

As the old AA and AN thread has now been locked by the FA, and I have a comment, I must start a new thread, alas.  However, I must say I am most relieved that those 21 pages won't have to go on and on and on.........::)

So anyway, I wanted to say how incredibly interesting that tidbit was that Sergio shared with us!!! :o :o :o :o  Infact, I find it quite creepy!  Oh, the poor thing! :'( :'( :'(  How terribly disturbed she was!  For those of you who don't know what I'm talking about, read Sergio's post on the other AA/AN thread right before FA posted that he was going to lock it.

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #520 on: October 13, 2004, 12:18:29 PM »
Part 2   :)  I like it.

I'll pull Sergio's quote over:

"Hi everyone, such a fascinating discussion. I guess we all have one or two incidences which seem to confirm or deny for us the possibility that AA may have been G.D Anastasia. For some it's a photo that looks like Anastasia or doesn't or a book which states something that adds to or detracts from the case. A story which stays in my memory is this but before I start it I must apologise for not being able to cite the source as it was some years ago. (Annoying I know!) All I can recall is that it was the autobiography of an American woman who had lived in Russia before the Revolution. She may have been a diplomat's wife. Here goes...
At the opera or the ballet her box was adjacent to that of the Imperial Family and she watched as Anastasia ate chocolates from a box thereby getting her gloves stained. During the interval she heard Anastasia humming a tune which was quite haunting and unknown to the author. She must have asked someone with her or perhaps even talked to Anastasia as she learned that the song was an obscure Russian folk tune about a girl who lost a doll. Years later in the 1920s the author was walking along a country path through some woods on Long Island when she came upon another woman, quite bizarrely dressed, sitting under a tree. What struck the author was that the woman was humming the same obscure tune as GD Anastasia had been all those years ago!
Later she mentioned to her hosts about the strange woman she had seen and they suggested that it may have been the woman claiming to be Anastasia who was staying at a nearby estate. (Perhaps it was the time when the claimant was staying with Mrs Leeds on Long Island?)
I know, I know .....mere coincidence, this proves nothing, especially with no quoted source but for some reason it has stayed with me."



"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #521 on: October 13, 2004, 12:21:21 PM »
Also, like our newest poster's, Evanescence's,  remarks:

"Well, there's a lot of info supporting and thwarting the case of Anna Anderson. In history, you need to look at both sides or your view might not be correct. I personally shift back and forth in my belief (I seriously have nothing better to do...)  
 
Evidence
 
-Anna Anderson reminded Maria Rasputin of the Red Cross nurse outfit incident and convinced her.
-Anna reminded Gleb Botkin's son about the "funny animals"
-Anna's face, scars, feet, features, ears (specially) resembled that of the Grand Duchess.
-Anna also had the same foot deformity as Anastasia, hallux vulgus.
-Anna recognized people that the genuine Anastasia knew by their voice.
-Anna knew about the peace mission her uncle went on (yes, it was true).
-Also later on it was discovered that the DNA test was not taken %100 correctly.
-There is strong evidence supporting that the DNA test was rigged, by the people who wanted to discredit Anna.
-Anna's ears looked exactly like Anastasia's. No matter what photographs or methods were used the result was the same. The ears were identical.
-(This probably falls under the features point, oh well) Anna had the same mesmerizing eyes, and identical auburnish hair color. (Is auburnish a real word if not it is now!!! )
-Anna's handwriting was very similar to that of the Grand Duchess.
-According to interviews of some of the executioners, it was declared that Anastasia had survived.
-There is a chance that only the Tsar, Tsarina, and Tsarevitch were killed and the daughters imprisoned somewhere else after their parents' deaths and Anastasia ran away and survived.
 
Evidence thwarting Anna
 
-Anna read magazines about the royal family.
-Anna had accurate details about the family's bank account (it is highly unlikely that Anastasia would have had this information).
-Anna was "proven" that she wasn't Anastasia through DNA (though after an thorough investigation problems about the test were uncovered).
 
Anna was probably NOT Franziska. Because
 
-Franziska's hands were rough while Anna's were soft and well kept.
-Anna could speak many languages that Franziska could not. This was confirmed by Franziska's family.
-Forensic experts found many differences between the two faces.
-Franziska's teeth were like "black stumps".
-Franziska did not have hallux vulgus while Anna and Anastasia did.
-Franziska's siblings met Anna and said she was too polite to be their sister.
-Franziska disappeared in the May of 1920 while Anna was found in February.
-Also if Franziska was admitted to Berlin hospitals and sanatoriums six times by 1920 why did no one recognize Anna?
 
But then again she could've been
 
-Franziska's sibling said she did look like Anna.
-Franziska did resemble Anna a bit.  
 
Please visit this website which helped convince me a bit that Anna was Anastasia, http://www.geocities.com/kransnoeselo/Front.html  
 
Anyway, Anastasia was a delightful child and it was a terrible thing that happened in Ipatiev house during the night of July 17th of 1918. Also if Anna wasn't Anastasia, she is still a remarkable person herself. Both deserve recognition. Well, that took a long time to type...At least I have chocolate to guide my way!! MUAHAHAHAHA...I'm not weird, well not a lot...  

Last Edit: Oct 12th, 2004, 5:07pm by Evanescence "
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #522 on: October 13, 2004, 12:26:11 PM »
Yes ..what a charming story... but its not really conclusive --an obscure russian folk song -- well the fact that Anna Anderson and Anastasia knew the tune is nice but its rather a foaf story  --  a "friend of a friend" or in this case a quaint point from an unnamed book which has been rephrased into a clever and delightful remark.
Good luck in locating the book- I would like to see it.
Rskkiya

Offline Janet_W.

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #523 on: October 13, 2004, 01:13:10 PM »
I seem to remember this story from the Anastasia book by James Blair Lovell. Or perhaps from Peter Kurth's book about Anastasia. I'm away from both books . . . can anyone confirm?!


Offline Annie

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #524 on: October 13, 2004, 03:34:06 PM »
Thanks FA and Michelle for the new thread. Regardless of which side we stand on this, we all love to discuss it!

Haunting story.

But since Evanescence's comments have been moved here, so must my comments on them. I would not put too much value on the Schanskowska's family's 'denial' of AA. There were reasons for that, they are listed in the Schaskowska family thread here on this forum.