Author Topic: Anna Anderson and Anastasia  (Read 175453 times)

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Offline investigator

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Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« on: January 27, 2004, 02:26:02 AM »
Anna Anderson and Anastasia had many similarities.  Eventually through DNA tests it was proven that Anna Anderson was not Anastasia.  Though i believe that the DNA tests could have been manipulated to have the wanted results to prove that Anna Anderson was not Anastasia.  But many supporters of Anna Anderson still believe that she was Anastasia and she had been deprived of her wealth and title.  Many doctors also testified that Anna Anderson and Anastasia were one person.  I believe in my heart that Anna Anderson was Anastasia.  Because she had similar physical traits, she had scars which Anastasia also had.  She knew certain things which she could have only known by having access to the Royal family. What is your opinion?
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Offline BobAtchison

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2004, 09:19:44 AM »
Anna Anderson made many mistakes in describing the rooms of the Alexander Palace.  They were obvious mistakes that someone would make if they has looked at pictures of the palace and misunderstood what they were looking at.  It was obvious Anna Anderson had never been in the palace. The real Anastasia would not have made those errors.

One of the Romanov family told me how when one of them entered a chapel with Anna Anderson she crossed herself - the wrong way.  It would be very diffcult for an person born into the Orthodox faith to make this mistake.

Also, Anna Anderson attended a lecture by a friend of mine at the Virginia Museum of Art.  She was old and senile at the time.  During the lecture she started speaking Polish loudly - there were some Poles in the lecture who were quiet surprized by this - as you can imagine.  the real Anastasia did not speak Polish.

Then there were witnesses to the murder, who saw all the bodies and identified them.  They saw Anastasia and Aleksey - all of them.

Finally we have the forensics - it is very difficult to argue with those findings.

A person can have an opinion about anything that diverges from reality.  If I avoid looking in mirrors I still think/believe I'm thin and 20 years old.... but I'm not.

Offline Lanie

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2004, 10:46:53 PM »
Personally, I don't think Anna Anderson looked like Anastasia at all.  All the pictures--she's got her head bowed in a certain way that one sees in some pictures of Anastasia, and the nose looks similar from that angle, but that's the ONLY resemblance I've noticed, ever.  I agree with Bob wholeheartedly!

Offline investigator

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2004, 02:43:57 AM »
When the Romanov Family was buried the bones of Tsarevich Alexei and Marie Romanov were never found.  Even the Russian Orthodox Church was not convinced that the bones are those of the Tsar and his family.  But the Patriarch of the Orthodox Church in Russia, Alexei II, had disputed the authenticity of the findings and refused to officiate at the burial.  So the mystery still lives on.  
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Offline Alice

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2004, 05:03:23 AM »
As sad as it is, I do not believe that Anna Anderson was Anastasia: I believe that Anastasia died with the rest of her family in Ipatiev House.

I know that many people do not want to believe it, but realistically, it would be nearly impossible for anyone to have survived the massacre, especially considering that each member of the firing squad was assigned a person (or persons) to shoot.

Bob, may I inquire as to who the witnesses were that claimed to have seen the bodies of Alexei and Anastasia? Also, what do you think became of the bodies? Do you think they were burnt or buried elsewhere?

Offline investigator

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2004, 03:06:24 AM »
Anna Anderson also claimed to have knowledge about Anastasia's uncle Grand Duke Ernst of Hesse.  She said that he had visited Russia in 1916, when his country and Russia were at war.  This was denied by the Grand Duke but his stepson testified in court in 1966 that he knew that the Grank Duke had made that trip to Russia in total secrecy.  I mean how did Anna Anderson know about this trip.  
Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.
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Offline anna

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2004, 09:44:55 AM »
This is a difficult matter. I think we never know. If they find the missing bones, maybe then we get an answer.
But if Anna was Anastasia? According to Bob, she made many mistakes. But if a person came  through such terrible trauma in life? Isn't natural you got many blackouts in your mind? You don't want to remember?
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Offline Alice

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2004, 03:54:01 AM »
Yeah but you don't just start speaking Polish as a result of trauma!  ;D

Also, she looks nothing like Anastasia . . . folks can kid themselves all they like, but look at Anastasia's features, which were very delicate, and then look at Anna Anderson's. *I* look more like Anastasia than Anna Anderson (and no, (LOL) I'm NOT claiming anything here!  ::) )

her features are completely different. For her to be Anastasia, she would've had to have had extensive plastic surgery, which, of course, wasn't available in the early 20th century.

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2004, 09:21:12 AM »
Let us not forget the most critical point in this whole discussion, which is that the mtDNA testing has shown that without doubt (at least without a statistically significant doubt anyway: something like a 99.999% accuracy) that Anna Anderson was in no way related to Empress Alexandra.  A recent discussion on the subject with a molecular biologist from the University of Texas indicates that the testing performed in 1994 was completely reliable then, and remains so today.  The only significant change in the analytical process in the last ten years is that the testing is now performed by machine but the underlying science remains exactly the same.

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2004, 07:32:23 PM »

Ten years ago I had the honor of attending a Mayo Clinic Lecture. The speaker was Dr. Ivanov, who did the DNA testing on the Romanov remains. His presentation, with the DNA results up on the screen as he talked, left no doubt in my mind, as much as I wanted to believe that someone escaped from that cellar, that the Tsar Family (as he referred to them) had all died on that July night.

As for Maria and Alexis not being found in the grave, a possible explaination is that Maria's body was mistaken for Alexandra's body and disposed along with Alexis's as such. Maria was tall, like the Empress, and had a sturdier build than her older sisters. The famous "note" outlining the murder and burial of the Romanovs contains the information that the Empress's body and Alexis's body were both burned, not buried with the rest. Since we know Alexandra was identified by her exquisite dental work as well as her DNA after being found in the burial pit, and the youngest female skeleton found had the skeletal characteristics of a female about Anastasia's age, not older like Maria, the scientific evidence seems pretty clear.

Offline Dr. Douglas B. Willingham

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2004, 04:55:54 PM »
Greetings, all:

In the early '90s I had the pleasure of visiting the late Dr. William Maples, the forensic anthropologist who was part of the team that identified the skeletal remains of the Imperial Family and their retinue. This almost three-hour recorded interview was conducted in Dr. Maples' lab at the University of Florida at Gainesville. Apart from the compelling mtDNA evidence, Maples looked at such things as bone length, concluding that the missing skeletons were those of Anastasia and Alexei. I have a transcription of that interview.

My question is, is the prevailing opinion that Maria's is the female skeleton not accounted for? And which of the Grand Duchesses were entombed, by name, in the Cathedral of SS Peter and Paul?

Best to all,
Doug
Dr. Douglas B. Willingham
Salado, Texas
U.S.A.

Offline Lanie

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2004, 06:09:44 PM »
Looking at photos of all the girls, and then comparing them next to Nicholas who was 5'6, 5'7 (I think so), it looks to me like even if Anastasia is missing in the grave, the heights gotten from the extrapolated bones have to be wrong.  But I personally believe Tatiana is missing, so.

Offline Alice

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2004, 04:13:41 AM »
Doug: to answer your question about which of the Grand Duchesses are entombed in the Cathedral of Peter and Paul, I believe the three are Grand Duchesses Olga, Tatiana and Anastasia.

I'm with Dr. Maples, I believe that Anastasia is missing. With that said, I think that the bodies of her and Alexei are yet to be found, but are somewhere in the Koptyaki forest.


Offline AnneS

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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2004, 10:51:43 AM »
Though I don't have anything new to add to this discussion, I've always been under the impression that the missing bodies were absolutely Alexis' and either Anastasia's or Marie's.  

I have come across articles and at least one book that claims Alexis survived and is buried in Canada.  The purported facts escape me right now but I do remember that the grave has the royal crest on it.  Is anyone familiar with the story?  Also, could the family of the person who claimed to be Alexis be sued by Romanov descendants for using the crest?  
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Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2004, 02:37:32 PM »
I saw that on a web site too. All you to do is compare the photo's...IMHO he looked nothing like Alexei. When you look at two photo's, you would see it "in the eyes" if it were him.

It's an interesting question about the crest though. My guess is that they probably wouldn't waste their time. I would also think that it would be frustrating for the Romanov family with all the "unproven claims".

If you were Alexei or Anastasia and you had survived, would you honestly risk your life/spouse's life or that of your children? In fact you would probably go to extreme lengths to keep it a secret.