Author Topic: Why do some see Nicholas as guilty for being rich?  (Read 77841 times)

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Alixz

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Re: Why do some see Nicholas as guilty for being rich?
« Reply #105 on: August 12, 2011, 09:53:48 AM »
I believe that Stalin was far worse that any tsar even Ivan the Terrible!

From the point of view of the peasant, the Revolution was about need, but from the point of view of the Bolshevik leaders it was about greed and power.

Offline Olga Bernice

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Re: Why do some see Nicholas as guilty for being rich?
« Reply #106 on: August 13, 2011, 06:06:13 PM »
I concur fully with all you say,but I also have a couple of questions-was Russia better of living under the cruelty of Stalin than under Nicholas, who dispite his ineptitude,tried to do what he thought was best for his country? Also, whilst I do appreciate that much of the revolution was about NEED, how much of it was about GREED?

Good point fedorovna!

I believe that Stalin was far worse that any tsar even Ivan the Terrible!

From the point of view of the peasant, the Revolution was about need, but from the point of view of the Bolshevik leaders it was about greed and power.

And I totally agree with you, Alixz. But what about all the aristocrats? I know, IMO, A LOT about the Romanovs, but besides a couple of outlines (Lenin coming into power, Stalin, communism, bones being found, etc, etc) I don't know much about the rest of the time between then and now. What did the aristocrats do . . . transform to communism, or even get exectuted, or flee? What would they be . . . survival, need, greed, or something that hasn't been named?
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Alixz

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Re: Why do some see Nicholas as guilty for being rich?
« Reply #107 on: August 14, 2011, 06:15:41 AM »
The did indeed get executed, or flee.  I don't know that many transformed to communism because the Communists executed all they could find.

As to greed, those who fled took very little with them except for maybe those who fled with Empress Marie from the Crimea.  They had more time to pack and brought many more of their personal things with them but still not as much as they would have liked.

What they did bring, for a while, was their Imperial attitude and they irritated each other and anyone they had to deal with in the countries they fled to.  They had to learn that they were no longer the ones in charge and that, with a few exceptions, no one wanted to support a poor Romanov.

Indifference to the way society was headed may have been something else that caused the Revolution. Those who had a lot lived as though they would never lose it and that things would go on forever.  It has been said that those aristocrats who wanted to remove Nicholas and Alix from the throne always thought that once the coup was over they would go back to their lavish way of life and their parties and balls and nothing else would change except for who was Tsar.

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Why do some see Nicholas as guilty for being rich?
« Reply #108 on: August 14, 2011, 07:07:21 AM »
I have read (as usual I'm trying to remember the source!) that about 800,000 people left Russia. The great majority of them must have been upper and middle class. As to what they managed to bring out, try reading George Orwell's 'Down and Out in Paris and London' - during his Paris period Orwell chummed up with a White Russian who was working as a waiter.

Ann

Alixz

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Re: Why do some see Nicholas as guilty for being rich?
« Reply #109 on: August 14, 2011, 03:05:39 PM »
That is exactly what I meant -  in general the refugees did not bring much with them which is why their Imperial attitude exasperated so many.  And we all know about the waiters and cab drivers and champagne salesmen.

But there were always those who pretended to still be living in regal style like Kyrill and Ducky.  And then there was Countess Brassova (wife of Grand Duke Michael) who died in dire poverty.

Those with Empress Marie did manage to bring a lot of luggage and Grand Duke Nicholas Nikolaevich brought a valuable sword.

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: Why do some see Nicholas as guilty for being rich?
« Reply #110 on: August 15, 2011, 07:48:34 AM »
The Military Museum in Brussels has a fine collection of Russian uniforms and regimental silver, so some people certainly got a lot of stuff out. Obviously, there was a lot of variation - some people must have had literally what they stood up in, or, at best, what they could carry on their backs.

Ann