Author Topic: The Alleged 1916 Visit to Russia  (Read 141160 times)

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Offline AGRBear

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Re: The Alleged 1916 Visit to Russia
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2004, 01:05:02 PM »
In those days there was the press tracing a nobelman's every step and I think it's very possible GD Ernst took this trip to Russia.

A couple years ago while my husband and I were in Scotland,  I recall the Queen of England's hubby, Philip,  and one of their sons were secretly taking a day off and playing golf and were right behind my husband on the course.....   Now,  if I tried to prove this,  it would be impossible, even, now in this day and age.

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Offline strom

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Re: The Alleged 1916 Visit to Russia
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2005, 11:48:49 AM »
Does anyone know how much the German Imperial General Staff knew of the Grand Duke's visit to the Alexander Palace in late 1916.  The subject of Ernie's visit appears to be still cloaked in secrecy but is widely acknowledged by all the European Royalty.  My purpose is to understand if, in fact, the Grand Duke was unwittingingly used by the German General Staff to undermine the authority of the Russian Imperial Authority at a crucial moment.  

Offline Sian_Turner

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Re: The Alleged 1916 Visit to Russia
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2005, 07:56:42 AM »
Summers and Mangold are good on this, if you haven't already looked at FOTT.  But my impression is that not many of the Imperial staff on either side knew much about the mission - my feeling is that it was a more personal mission than an offical one, hence Ernie's desperate attempts in the 20's to deny it, he still hoped to regain his position and if he allowed it to be known that he'd "sneaked" off to talk to the enemy during the war he would be branded as unreliable or even worse a liar.  At the time these things probably meant a great deal.

Offline Annie

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Re: The Alleged 1916 Visit to Russia
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2005, 08:40:36 AM »
There really is no proof it ever even happend :-/ We may never know for sure.

Offline Sian_Turner

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Re: The Alleged 1916 Visit to Russia
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2005, 08:56:25 AM »
The trip has been confirmed by, not only high ranking members of hte German aristocracy, but also by the Father of Fitz von Unruh who was part of the Duke's court who made arrangements for him to go via Sweden, please see statements in the File on the Tsar which are also referenced.

Offline Annie

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Re: The Alleged 1916 Visit to Russia
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2005, 11:25:41 AM »
Until I see it confirmed by a different source I will wonder.

Offline Sian_Turner

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Re: The Alleged 1916 Visit to Russia
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2005, 02:31:02 PM »
Quote "In 1957 Baroness Marie Pilar von Pilchau gave eivdence that her brother a diplomat, helped arrange the hour: My brother was well-known to the late Grade Duke of Hesse-Darmstadt.  In the year 1916 my brother was working as counsellor at hte Imperial Russian Legation in Oslo.  During that period the Grande Duk Ernst Ludwig of Hesse sent an aide ot Oslo, to my brother to ask for his assistant in a journal to Russian by way of Haparanda ... with my brother's help the trip to Russia did take place"  FOTT p 220 original quote from the Hamburg court transcription.

Quote: "Colonel Dmitry von Lar-Larsky stated in 1949 - In 1915 and 1916 I had to be treated at a sanatorium, Raula, on Lake Solma not far from the Imata Waterfall.  It was there one evening that I had the opportunity to notice a foreign dignitary passing gthrough, in whom I at wonce recognised the Grand Duke Ernst Lydwig of Hesse-Darmstant; he was accompanied by the Tsar's aide-de-camp, Colonel Mordivinov.  The tsarina's brother was well known to me ... When Mordvinov saw that I had recognised hte Grade Duke he asked me not to let it be notcied and to keep quiet about it.  He confided in me that hte tsarina's brother was travelling incognito ..." again from the Hamburg Volumes.

Fitz von Unruh's was a tutor in the Hesse household in 1916 and said he was told of the trip by the aide who traveleed with teh grand duke.  Again FOTT from the Hamburg testimonies.

From Peter Kurth

.... twenty five years later the German Crown Pricess stepped forward to affirm not only that the Grande Duke of Hesse had underatken the peace mission to Russian, but that "our circles knew about it even at the time" .... on lady of St Petersburg society remarked innocently "What I don't understand is why everyone keeps talking about the Grand Duke's 'secret' trip. We all knew about it".  p95.

What further source would you like Annie?

Offline Marlene

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Re: The Alleged 1916 Visit to Russia
« Reply #22 on: February 23, 2005, 03:07:06 PM »
[
What further source would you like Annie?[/quote]


The late Princess Vera of Russia told a writer that she knew about the meeting as Ernie stayed with Grand Duke Constantine and famly.
Author of Queen Victoria's Descendants,
& publisher of Royal Book News.
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Offline Valmont

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Re: The Alleged 1916 Visit to Russia
« Reply #23 on: February 23, 2005, 03:15:22 PM »
Are you serious?.. Do you know who that writer is?.. or it's just another rumor..
Does anyone know if  GD Konstantine wrote anything about this in his diaries?.. I am sure that a visit of such Political Importance  at that time, would have given GD Konstantine something to think about... and probably  wrote something .. (If this visit was true indeed.. hehe)

Arturo
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Offline Lanie

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Re: The Alleged 1916 Visit to Russia
« Reply #24 on: February 23, 2005, 09:26:08 PM »
I've never seen anything in the IF's diaries (that have been published, anyway!).  I guess N&A wouldn't write about it...maybe the children did?

Offline Marlene

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Re: The Alleged 1916 Visit to Russia
« Reply #25 on: February 23, 2005, 10:12:39 PM »
Quote
Are you serious?.."

I am always serious.  Yes.
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& publisher of Royal Book News.
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Offline Sian_Turner

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Re: The Alleged 1916 Visit to Russia
« Reply #26 on: February 24, 2005, 11:34:42 AM »
I think I'm correct in saying that Alix makes some strange references to Ernie in letters dated November 1916, maybe somone could help with this as I don't have books to hand.

Offline Penny_Wilson

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Re: The Alleged 1916 Visit to Russia
« Reply #27 on: February 24, 2005, 01:27:40 PM »
Quote
[
The late Princess Vera of Russia told a writer that she knew about the meeting as Ernie stayed with Grand Duke Constantine and famly.


I can confirm Marlene's words.

EL's visit to Russia was facilitated by the King and Crown Princess of Sweden, as is covered in "Monarkhia Pered Khrusheniem."
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Penny_Wilson »
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Offline Valmont

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Re: The Alleged 1916 Visit to Russia
« Reply #28 on: February 24, 2005, 02:02:42 PM »
So, this means that Ana Anderson was right.. She claimed she had seen Uncle Ernie during a secret visit he had paid to N & A to negociate the peace during the war..
I guess that is another point for AA.
Now I raise my question again..
Has anyone read anything  about this visit in any of the  GD's Diaries?.. Is there any other cross reference?
Arturo Vega-Llausás

Offline Arleen

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Re: The Alleged 1916 Visit to Russia
« Reply #29 on: February 24, 2005, 02:55:52 PM »
I guess if it was NO BIG SECRET AA could have heard about it too.  This is so interesting to me, thanks for bringing it up.....and keep on, tell us more.        ..Arleen