Author Topic: AA and FS  (Read 64310 times)

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Offline Alexa

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Re: AA and FS
« Reply #300 on: December 19, 2004, 07:14:27 PM »
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Hello Alexa

Contact PBS station WGBH in Boston --you can find the site on the internet -- and you can order Anastasia Dead or Alive on VHS for about twenty u.s. dollars. It's quite good, (as you know) but not yet on DVD.
love
rskkiya


Thanks!  I had looked on the pbs site, but hadn't thought of going straight to WGBH.  Looks like I know what I'm getting myself for Christmas.  ;D

Alexa

Offline AGRBear

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Re: AA and FS
« Reply #301 on: December 19, 2004, 11:44:58 PM »
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whether or not Carl M. was maternally or paternally related is not really of as major a consequence as Agr seems to think. Why?
Because their mtDNA matched EXACTLY. Thus, they were at least related maternally at some point within the last ten-fifteen generations. Without question, there IS some relationship between AA (whoever she was) and the FS FAMILY even if she wasn't FS herself.
AND, don't forget, the likelihood that she WAS FS is 96%. So we are only even talking about a 4% probabilty otherwise.


Last 10  to 15 generations show Gertrude's grandson was related to the doner of the intestines and hair.  It does not show that the intestines and hair were Anna Anderson's.  It does not show that the intestines and hair were FS.  However, it does show the doner was related to Gertrude not FS.  This test follows the maternal line.  If Gertrude and FS had different mothers then the line was broken between the two via the two mothers.  I only mentioned on another post that  this would not matter if the mothers were sisters/cousins then the maternal line might work.....  I don't know of anyone who has shown proof the two mothers were related.  If so,  I missed this.  What was the source?

This is the reason why someone,  I've forgotten who, was trying to find Karl Maucher or someone who did the testing to see if this subject about the mothers was discussed.

And,  I think this conversation started when it was hinted that FS may have been murdered by Grossmann, therefore,   if this is true, then Anna Anderson couldn't have been FS.

If  FS was murdered, and, the donner of the intestines and hair was Anna Andersons and she wasn't FS,  then who was she?  She was someone who was related to Gertrude and her grandson.

What we don't know, then,  is:  Whom Anna Anderson really was.

I have assumed Anna Anderson was FS, but,  I'm, now,  open on this subject until more evidence is presented to clearify these uncertainies.

AGRBear

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

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Offline Annie

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Re: AA and FS
« Reply #302 on: December 20, 2004, 07:44:06 AM »
I really don't see any more uncertainties left. The intestines in the hospital belonged to AA. They were secure. It was the daughter of Gleb Botkin, a huge AA supporter, who found the intestines and arranged the tests. So if it was going to be faked or rigged, wouldn't she have wanted to rig it in favor of the results NOT matching?

Also, consider where and how a replacement intestine would have to have been found. Someone would have had to search down a maternal relative of FS, cut them open and remove just the exact part of intestine that AA had removed. WHO would do this, and WHY, and HOW would they manage this and then sneak it back into the hospital? Or did they steal it and make the swap on the side of the road at gunpoint? This really is not realistic at all!

I put no stock at all in the murder rumor. The name wasn't even the same, and while at some point someone may have guessed or assumed since she was missing and a serial killer was in the same (huge) city she was murdered, but there was nothing official, and if she were legally dead there would have been no way FS could have been mentioned so much in the AA trials. Why would they bother to go get the family of a dead person? No, they thought there was a real chance she was FS. And as I've said before, the family did recognize her, but later denied her to avoid responsibilty for her problems, and support of her. There are letters of the Schanskowksa family mentioning this, and discussing her as if it was a taken for granted fact they all knew she was FS.

I won't even touch the half sister thing again, I don't think scientists would have bothered to test someone they hadn't proven was the right maternal line.

Offline Olga

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Re: AA and FS
« Reply #303 on: December 20, 2004, 07:59:21 AM »
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Also, consider where and how a replacement intestine would have to have been found. Someone would have had to search down a maternal relative of FS, cut them open and remove just the exact part of intestine that AA had removed. WHO would do this, and WHY, and HOW would they manage this and then sneak it back into the hospital? Or did they steal it and make the swap on the side of the road at gunpoint? This really is not realistic at all!


AGRBear, you think the tests were rigged. With all Annie has said above, how can that be possible?

Offline Forum Admin

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Re: AA and FS
« Reply #304 on: December 20, 2004, 09:13:58 AM »
AGR,
About the samples 'not' being AA, I remind you of my earlier posting. Before making such an assertion as being plausible, you must identify WHO had the motive to make the switch, who KNEW the sample was in the hospital, who knew exactly WHERE it was stored in the hospital, Who had the dna expertise to know they would have to make the switch, who KNEW someone related to FS somehow, who could have extracted the precise same samples from him, processed them to appear exactly as if done by the hospital, who had the opportunity to enter the hospital to make the switch, WHEN they made the switch...

On this one note, you sound alot like Candice demanding the Grand Duchesses all escaped. Before you repeat this fantasy proposition (yes, fantasy) I must insist you start supplying hard evidence to back it up.
Simply because something is somehow minutely in the realm of "possible" does not make it remotely 'PLAUSIBLE'.

Offline AGRBear

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Re: AA and FS
« Reply #305 on: December 20, 2004, 11:48:31 PM »
Since the theories are not my own,  I'm not sure why I'm the one who needs to present the answers to your questions, Admin. Forum..  It was Penny Wilson who was researching the possibility that FS was murdered,  not I.  It was Penny who suggested that if FS was murdered then she could not have been Anna Anderson.

I merely am reminding you and others that there are questions being asked by people like Wilson and King who are pouring through real documents which I shall never have the pleasure to ever read.

If you look at the last line of my post,  I mention that I've always thought Anna Anderson and FS were one in the same, however,  because of what Penny Wilson's "new found evdience" which we've not yet seen,  I'm keeping my mind open.

Did I mention "switch" in my last post?  Let me go back and take a look.... No,  I did not.

My opinon on a switch:  If a switch did take place,  I have no idea who did or why?  Therefore,  how could I know a motive?  I could make educated guesses but why would I?

As for the trial,  I've never read an English translation, therefore, I have no clue if the subject of FS and Grossmann was ever mentioned.  

Golly gee whiz,  I don't have any answers.  If I did,  I'd be the one writing the books.

And,  let me repeat what I've  said many times,  it doesn't matter to me if Anna Anderson was FS or her cousin 15 times removed.

As for Candice's opinions and everyone else's opinions,  I think they all should be respected and weighted carefully,  even if they are not of your own opinion.  

My suggestions on other threads about one or all of the IF  having  escaped on the night of the 16 / 17  July 1918 has nothing to do with this thread.  I believe this thead is about Anna Anderson and FS.  

AGRBear  

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....I am not doubting the tests with the "hair" and "intestines" matching Maucher. I am not doubting that it doesn't match Prince Philip.   It's the FS / nephew or half nephew and maternal line part that I 's like to have cleared.

.....  Then,  we can talk about the "switch"  ;D....  [A little humor at the end....]

AGRBear
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline Olga

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Re: AA and FS
« Reply #306 on: December 21, 2004, 12:20:29 AM »
AGRBear, it seems anything is plausible to you. You claim to have the real answers to the fate of the Romanovs. Can you not see that this can get frustrating?   >:(

Why don't you just put your theory out in the open so other people can digest it?

rskkiya

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Re: AA and FS
« Reply #307 on: December 21, 2004, 09:32:06 AM »
Not again...
  I have my doubts that there was ever a real "Herr X" and a 'secret told to a 5 year old Agrbear" at all!
  Agrebear has been asked on a number of occations to please share her experiences and to tell us what she knows- but each time she has avoided answering the guestion...
  I'm afraid that I no longer take anything that she has to say on this topic seriously.

rskkiya

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Re: AA and FS
« Reply #308 on: December 21, 2004, 09:42:52 AM »
AGR,
the only part of your statement I was referring to is your claim that the AA sample was switched to match the FS family.  I have spoken to Penny privately several times about her assertion that AA was not FS. There is some room for discussion on the subject, I agree, as she raides some unanswered questions there.
As I have said before many times, I frankly don't care WHO AA really was, as long as it isn't Anastasia Nicholaievna, as THAT question is answered conclusively, as far as I am concerned. Whether she WAS FS? Cela ne faire rien dire, IMHO.

Offline Olga

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Re: AA and FS
« Reply #309 on: December 21, 2004, 09:51:39 AM »
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I frankly don't care WHO AA really was, as long as it isn't Anastasia Nicholaievna, as THAT question is answered conclusively, as far as I am concerned.


I couldn't care less either. For me the only thing that matters is that Anna Anderson wasn't Anastasia Nikolaevna. Period.

Offline AGRBear

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Re: AA and FS
« Reply #310 on: December 21, 2004, 11:06:56 AM »
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AGR,
..... [in  part] ...  I have spoken to Penny privately several times about her assertion that AA was not FS. There is some room for discussion on the subject, I agree, as she raises some unanswered questions there.


Yes, there appears to be room for discussion!

AGRBear
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

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Re: AA and FS
« Reply #311 on: December 21, 2004, 11:13:39 AM »
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Yes, there appears to be room for discussion!

AGRBear


Just keep the discussion away from AA being AN, as one has nothing to do with the other. We KNOW she was NOT AN, no question.

Offline Olga

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Re: AA and FS
« Reply #312 on: December 21, 2004, 08:42:47 PM »
AGRBEAR

ANSWER MY QUESTION. WHAT DO YOU KNOW?

Offline Ella

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Re: AA and FS
« Reply #313 on: December 21, 2004, 08:44:52 PM »
I thought I would join in this thread first, as I have read and been assured that whatsoever theories are proposed in this forum the suggestor will not be subjected to ridicule.

Hmmm.

We will see.

Have any of you ever heard of "Walk In's"? There is a school of thought out there that claims that whenever a soul is in distress (serious distress, the kind that makes someone want to commit suicide) that they send out signals of a sort. In order to prevent the body being destroyed, since (theoretically) there are so many souls that want in, negotiations (for lack of a better term) are undertaken while the person in question is asleep. The transfer of soul to different body can also occur (according to this particular teaching) if a person is murdered in a particularly horrible or distressing way. That description would certainly apply to AN.

Since, scientifically, it appears that the body that AA was in belonged to FS, maybe the soul did not. I'm just presenting an idea! Its true that AA is not recorded to have spoken Russian, but there are many instances where she is reported to have ben asked questions in Russian, and answered corectly in German.

Any true student of the paranormal knows that in homes where Polergeist actiivity is recorded, there is almost always a child, boy or girl, of puberty age. The common excepted scientific belief is that at some point there has been a traumatic experience in the lives of these teenagers which causes a part of their mind to split off which becomes the entity causing the disturbances. If this is a comonly held scientific belief, It may certainly be possible that the mind of a teenager that has been murdered in a horrible way, also who had witnessed the murder of her entire family and the only friends and servants that had accompanied them throughout their ordeal could....well, freak out after death and not go whereever it is souls go. What if she just jumped into another body? And what if that body was FS?

Now I guess I will wait for the backlash of this one.

Ella

Offline Olga

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Re: AA and FS
« Reply #314 on: December 21, 2004, 08:55:44 PM »
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Its true that AA is not recorded to have spoken Russian, but there are many instances where she is reported to have ben asked questions in Russian, and answered corectly in German.


Hearsay.

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The common excepted scientific belief is that at some point there has been a traumatic experience in the lives of these teenagers which causes a part of their mind to split off which becomes the entity causing the disturbances.


Would you like to show us your findings that support this?

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well, freak out after death and not go whereever it is souls go. What if she just jumped into another body? And what if that body was FS?


Jumping to conclusions?

It seems hard for some people to accept that Anna Anderson was not Anastasia Nikolaevna.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by olga »