Author Topic: Anastasia Inheritance Would Have Been What?  (Read 59997 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline AGRBear

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 6611
  • The road to truth is the best one to travel.
    • View Profile
    • Romanov's  Russia
Re: Anastasia Inheritance Would Have Been What?
« Reply #120 on: April 18, 2008, 10:18:43 AM »
1934

On p. 130 of THE LOST FORTUNE OF THE TSARS by William Clarke is the following: On 9 Jan 1934 was submitted an application from Countess Brassova  >>on behlaf of herself and other Romanoffs, the Central District Court in Berlin granted them the tsar's remaining assests in Germany, comprising despoits and investments previously blocked.  The heir were reconized as Countess Brassova, Grand Duchess Xenia, Grand Duchess Olga, the Marchinoness of Milford Haven [Princess Victoria, the tsarin's sister and Lord Mounbatten's mother), and the two German residents among the applicants, Princess Irene von Hesse and Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig von Hesse..."

Remember, this was just about the German assests which is said to equal  2,200,000 pounds on or by 9 Jan 1934.  This does not include anything outside of Germany.

Since the German courts were saying that all the IF family had died at Ekaterinburg, this allowed AA's group to challenge that "assumption" in court and this is when her group filed a petition on 17 Aug 1938 and this was the beginning of legal battle which was turned down in 1941 then came the appeal in 1942 .... resulted in the AA trial. [Sorry for bringing up AA but these documents do whole numbers of worth.]

Let me repeat, Lisa,  I'm just trying to add up the final figures.  And,  I'd like you to continue to enlighten me as to why Clarke  and the Romanov heir's lawyer were wrong in their estimation of  what was to be gained through this petition/application in 1934.

AGRBear
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline LisaDavidson

  • Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 2665
    • View Profile
Re: Anastasia Inheritance Would Have Been What?
« Reply #121 on: April 18, 2008, 06:40:24 PM »
1934

On p. 130 of THE LOST FORTUNE OF THE TSARS by William Clarke is the following: On 9 Jan 1934 was submitted an application from Countess Brassova  >>on behlaf of herself and other Romanoffs, the Central District Court in Berlin granted them the tsar's remaining assests in Germany, comprising despoits and investments previously blocked.  The heir were reconized as Countess Brassova, Grand Duchess Xenia, Grand Duchess Olga, the Marchinoness of Milford Haven [Princess Victoria, the tsarin's sister and Lord Mounbatten's mother), and the two German residents among the applicants, Princess Irene von Hesse and Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig von Hesse..."

Remember, this was just about the German assests which is said to equal  2,200,000 pounds on or by 9 Jan 1934.  This does not include anything outside of Germany.

Since the German courts were saying that all the IF family had died at Ekaterinburg, this allowed AA's group to challenge that "assumption" in court and this is when her group filed a petition on 17 Aug 1938 and this was the beginning of legal battle which was turned down in 1941 then came the appeal in 1942 .... resulted in the AA trial. [Sorry for bringing up AA but these documents do whole numbers of worth.]

Let me repeat, Lisa,  I'm just trying to add up the final figures.  And,  I'd like you to continue to enlighten me as to why Clarke  and the Romanov heir's lawyer were wrong in their estimation of  what was to be gained through this petition/application in 1934.

AGRBear


So, I am having trouble figuring out what your point is. Do you dispute that there were few significant assets for a survivor to inherit? And if you do, can you explain why none of the residual heirs received them?

I am no expert on Clarke and what lawyer are you talking about?

Offline AGRBear

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 6611
  • The road to truth is the best one to travel.
    • View Profile
    • Romanov's  Russia
Re: Anastasia Inheritance Would Have Been What?
« Reply #122 on: April 19, 2008, 11:15:32 AM »

So, I am having trouble figuring out what your point is. Do you dispute that there were few significant assets for a survivor to inherit? And if you do, can you explain why none of the residual heirs received them?

I am no expert on Clarke and what lawyer are you talking about?

On p. 130 of THE LOST FORTUNE OF THE TSARS by William Clarke is the following: On 9 Jan 1934 was submitted an application from Countess Brassova  >>on behlaf of herself and other Romanoffs, the Central District Court in Berlin granted them the tsar's remaining assests in Germany, comprising despoits and investments previously blocked.  The heir were reconized as Countess Brassova, Grand Duchess Xenia, Grand Duchess Olga, the Marchinoness of Milford Haven [Princess Victoria, the tsarin's sister and Lord Mounbatten's mother), and the two German residents among the applicants, Princess Irene von Hesse and Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig von Hesse..."

The Romanov had lawyers.

And. later,  there was a lawyer representing AA in her trial.

Both sides were working on the same assests submitted by the Romanovs who had filed their petition earlier and were opposing AA, who, if she could prove she was GD Anastasia, would have inherited these same assests and not Countess Brassova and the others.   This is why AA's lawyer went to court when he did because this halted the court's decision on the Romanov petition.

We know the outcome of the AA trial. 

All I'm trying to do is discover what these assests were and what else GD Anastasia would have inherited if  GD Anastasia, the child of Nicholas II, would have inherited from 1918 to the time of her death had she lived into the 1930, '40s,  '60s or later.

AGRBear
« Last Edit: April 19, 2008, 11:28:06 AM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline LisaDavidson

  • Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 2665
    • View Profile
Re: Anastasia Inheritance Would Have Been What?
« Reply #123 on: April 23, 2008, 03:07:07 PM »

So, I am having trouble figuring out what your point is. Do you dispute that there were few significant assets for a survivor to inherit? And if you do, can you explain why none of the residual heirs received them?

I am no expert on Clarke and what lawyer are you talking about?

On p. 130 of THE LOST FORTUNE OF THE TSARS by William Clarke is the following: On 9 Jan 1934 was submitted an application from Countess Brassova  >>on behlaf of herself and other Romanoffs, the Central District Court in Berlin granted them the tsar's remaining assests in Germany, comprising despoits and investments previously blocked.  The heir were reconized as Countess Brassova, Grand Duchess Xenia, Grand Duchess Olga, the Marchinoness of Milford Haven [Princess Victoria, the tsarin's sister and Lord Mounbatten's mother), and the two German residents among the applicants, Princess Irene von Hesse and Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig von Hesse..."

The Romanov had lawyers.

And. later,  there was a lawyer representing AA in her trial.

Both sides were working on the same assests submitted by the Romanovs who had filed their petition earlier and were opposing AA, who, if she could prove she was GD Anastasia, would have inherited these same assests and not Countess Brassova and the others.   This is why AA's lawyer went to court when he did because this halted the court's decision on the Romanov petition.

We know the outcome of the AA trial. 

All I'm trying to do is discover what these assests were and what else GD Anastasia would have inherited if  GD Anastasia, the child of Nicholas II, would have inherited from 1918 to the time of her death had she lived into the 1930, '40s,  '60s or later.

AGRBear

The residual heirs that were recognized received very little money due to the deflation of German currency. And they received all that there was to be had. That's what I have been saying for goodness knows how many pages now. There was very little money, certainly less than $50,000, and probably less than that still.

"The Romanovs" did not have lawyers. For a time Countess Brassova tried to get her late husband's assets (or what was left) and she probably had a lawyer for a time. The real heirs at the time of the Anna Anderson trials had to depend on the largese of Lord Mountbatten, who had married well, and the only one who could afford to hire a lawyer.

So, once again, the real Grand Duchess would not have received very much in the way of an inheritance.

Offline AGRBear

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 6611
  • The road to truth is the best one to travel.
    • View Profile
    • Romanov's  Russia
Re: Anastasia Inheritance Would Have Been What?
« Reply #124 on: April 26, 2008, 10:05:28 AM »
Let's back up.

According to FA, Alexandra's property was worth $70,000 American dollars.  This is property.  Not German marks.  Paper money.  So,
this exceeds what you are claiming as a total of $50,000. 

By simple subtration, you are claiming $20,000 less than FA.  So,  this does confuse old Bear. 

AGRBear



« Last Edit: April 26, 2008, 10:07:00 AM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline Forum Admin

  • Administrator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 4665
  • www.alexanderpalace.org
    • View Profile
    • Alexander Palace Time Machine
Re: Anastasia Inheritance Would Have Been What?
« Reply #125 on: April 26, 2008, 11:34:05 AM »
The accounts for the 5 girls were deutchmark deposit accounts.  These were rendered valueless by the hyperinflation of the 1920's Bear.  The hyperinflation was a result of the huge reparations/damages payments the Allies imposed on Germany AFTER the war.

The only asset of any value which Anastasia could have inherited was Alexandra's real estate, valued at $70,000 after the War (according to Clarke).  True, this asset would have retained a relative value in other currencies.

Thats all there was. Nothing else. Sadly.

Offline Nikl

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 53
    • View Profile
Re: Anastasia Inheritance Would Have Been What?
« Reply #126 on: April 26, 2008, 08:28:26 PM »
Let's back up.

According to FA, Alexandra's property was worth $70,000 American dollars.  This is property.  Not German marks.  Paper money.  So,
this exceeds what you are claiming as a total of $50,000. 

By simple subtration, you are claiming $20,000 less than FA.  So,  this does confuse old Bear. 

AGRBear




I am sorry, but Russia after WWI did not have any money.
This I find on internet 

Nicholas II.
During his reign, Russia had to face two wars. In 1904-1905, the country suffered a heavy defeat by Japan : 400,000 men were killed, wounded or captured, and material losses were valued at 2.5-billion gold rubles.

Offline Annie

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4757
    • View Profile
    • Anna Anderson Exposed!
Re: Anastasia Inheritance Would Have Been What?
« Reply #127 on: April 26, 2008, 11:03:41 PM »
She wouldn't have gotten anything out of Russia anyway, since it was taken over by the Bolsheviks!

Offline Robert_Hall

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 6649
  • a site.
    • View Profile
Re: Anastasia Inheritance Would Have Been What?
« Reply #128 on: April 27, 2008, 12:10:11 AM »
ALL personal property  of the upper classes was nationalised, not just the Imperial Family's.  The reasonong being that the people paid  with their labour to make them  rich, so the  assests belonged to the people.
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline Nikl

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 53
    • View Profile
Re: Anastasia Inheritance Would Have Been What?
« Reply #129 on: April 27, 2008, 08:07:43 AM »
ALL personal property  of the upper classes was nationalised, not just the Imperial Family's.  The reasonong being that the people paid  with their labour to make them  rich, so the  assests belonged to the people.
So way russian goverment did not give money back tothe people?


In 1948 was in Czechoslovakia political putsch. Communist confiscated all factory and ruled over the country until 1989. 
han new democratic goverment returned  money to the people.

Offline Robert_Hall

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 6649
  • a site.
    • View Profile
Re: Anastasia Inheritance Would Have Been What?
« Reply #130 on: April 27, 2008, 08:35:21 AM »
Niki,  that concept is  Marxist theory. [from the people to the people]  I am not an apologist for the Bolshevik/Soviet state.  But,  the confiscations did, in ways, go back to the people in the form of health care and education amongst other so-called "benefits".  Of course there were/are abuses, as in every system. The disaster of Zimbabwe is a perfect example currently.
 But this id off topic I think.
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline Forum Admin

  • Administrator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 4665
  • www.alexanderpalace.org
    • View Profile
    • Alexander Palace Time Machine
Re: Anastasia Inheritance Would Have Been What?
« Reply #131 on: April 27, 2008, 09:42:47 AM »
Let's back up.

According to FA, Alexandra's property was worth $70,000 American dollars.  This is property.  Not German marks.  Paper money.  So,
this exceeds what you are claiming as a total of $50,000. 

By simple subtration, you are claiming $20,000 less than FA.  So,  this does confuse old Bear. 

AGRBear




I am sorry, but Russia after WWI did not have any money.
This I find on internet 

Nicholas II.
During his reign, Russia had to face two wars. In 1904-1905, the country suffered a heavy defeat by Japan : 400,000 men were killed, wounded or captured, and material losses were valued at 2.5-billion gold rubles.

The assets of the Imperial Regime which were taken over by the Bolshevik government were still substantial by any measure, despite the huge costs of the war.  The question of the money belonging to the Government is not the subject of this discussion.  Anastasia would have no claim possible to any of the Russian State money, regardless of who was in power.  The only money she could have had any claim to would have been any personal property OUTSIDE of Russia which belonged to her parents or siblings.

She and her siblings had deutschmark deposit accounts in Germany. While about $150,000 each in value before the war, the rampant inflation of the Weimar Republic era rendered them of no value.

Nicholas II, after much searching by William Clarke, had no personal assets abroad at the time of his death.  The $200 million or so of Russian assets outside of Russia were State/Government property and so went to the Soviet Government.

Alexandra had some real estate inherited from her family in Darmstadt Germany. Worth about $70,000 in the 1920s.  That was the only asset Anastasia Nicholaievna, or any surviving child of Nicholas II,  would have had any claim had they actually lived.

Any other property belonging to other Romanov survivors, like her Grandmother Marie Feodorovna for example, would only have been hers by gift or legacy in a Last Will and Testament.

Now, with the return of some property in Russia back to the descendants of the original owners before 1917, there could be a discussion of the return of some of the "personal" property back to a surviving Grand Duchess (aged 110 !!) or her children.  This would most likely be Livadia, Massandra, Novi Svet, Spala,  or one of the other personal privy purse estates of Nicholas.  However, as there are no direct descendants alive, nobody today actually has a good claim to any of them.
I hope this clears up the discussion.

Offline AGRBear

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 6611
  • The road to truth is the best one to travel.
    • View Profile
    • Romanov's  Russia
Re: Anastasia Inheritance Would Have Been What?
« Reply #132 on: April 27, 2008, 11:08:02 AM »
...[in part]...
Alexandra had some real estate inherited from her family in Darmstadt Germany. Worth about $70,000 in the 1920s.  That was the only asset Anastasia Nicholaievna, or any surviving child of Nicholas II,  would have had any claim had they actually lived.

Any other property belonging to other Romanov survivors, like her Grandmother Marie Feodorovna for example, would only have been hers by gift or legacy in a Last Will and Testament.

....

FA,
Where were her propterties?   Darmstadt?  Some place else? Back then every property of royals had names?  Do you know what they were?  Are they listed somewhere so I could find out more about her real estate?

Thanks.

AGRBear
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline Forum Admin

  • Administrator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 4665
  • www.alexanderpalace.org
    • View Profile
    • Alexander Palace Time Machine
Re: Anastasia Inheritance Would Have Been What?
« Reply #133 on: April 27, 2008, 11:56:31 AM »
Clarke's Lost Fortune:
pg 130:
 
The hyper inflation of Germany in the early 1920's had wiped out much of its original value. Edward Fallows put the current value in the 1930s at around $100,000.  The deposit accounts were at Mendelssohn's Bank in Berlin.

I may be incorrect about real estate belonging to Alexandra.  Clarke mentions only "deutschmark investment accounts" belonging to Alexandra, so presumably these were also part of the Mendelssohn's & Co. accounts.


Offline AGRBear

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 6611
  • The road to truth is the best one to travel.
    • View Profile
    • Romanov's  Russia
Re: Anastasia Inheritance Would Have Been What?
« Reply #134 on: April 27, 2008, 01:48:08 PM »
Clarke's Lost Fortune:
pg 130:
 
The hyper inflation of Germany in the early 1920's had wiped out much of its original value. Edward Fallows put the current value in the 1930s at around $100,000.  The deposit accounts were at Mendelssohn's Bank in Berlin.

I may be incorrect about real estate belonging to Alexandra.  Clarke mentions only "deutschmark investment accounts" belonging to Alexandra, so presumably these were also part of the Mendelssohn's & Co. accounts.



So, if I'm understanding FA correctly,  inheritance would have been $100,000 in the 1930s which was found in Germany in the Mendelssohn's & Co. accounts.

Let me see p. 130.  And let me add what else Clarke tells us:

>>That sum was finally put at the disposal of the Romanoff descendants by the issue of a certificate of inheritance in 1938.<<

Do the rest of you agree to this amount?

AGRBear
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152