Author Topic: Anastasia Inheritance Would Have Been What?  (Read 58343 times)

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Offline AGRBear

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Re: Anastasia Inheritance Would Have Been What?
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2004, 12:51:39 PM »
Quote
Romanov Diary



???

I'm not sure what you're telling me/us.  

What does the Romanov Diary have to do with  the Dowager's will?

AGRBear
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Re: Anastasia Inheritance Would Have Been What?
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2004, 01:01:17 PM »
your quote comes from Romanov Diary which was ghost written. And, AGR, you seem to "flip flop". EITHER you stress that MF really DID believe they survived, or now you back pedal and say she just "wistfully hoped against hope" they survived... First you take a strong position then you change it..so WHICH is it?

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Anastasia Inheritance Would Have Been What?
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2004, 01:45:13 PM »
Quote
your quote comes from Romanov Diary which was ghost written. And, AGR, you seem to "flip flop". EITHER you stress that MF really DID believe they survived, or now you back pedal and say she just "wistfully hoped against hope" they survived... First you take a strong position then you change it..so WHICH is it?


My quote came from: LITTLE MOTHER OF RUSSIA by Coryne Hall.

According to some of the posts, one of which was from someone else, that the Dowager never stopped believing her sons were still alive.  That  may have been from the Romanov Diary.  I don't know.

Do you mean Annie's:
Quote

It may have been the lawyers, or it may have been that she thought if they were alive they were in unknown places and could not be reached or reveal themselves in public. But every indication and report I've ever seen seems to support that she never gave up hope they were alive.

I just found this posted by Ella in another thread, it's a quote from Sandro:

'Countess Brassova arrived in London in 1919 still refusing to believe that her husband was dead. But for that matter, neither did the Dowager-Empress Marie ever trust the Soviet communique describing the burning of the bodies of the Czar and his family. She died expecting to receive, sooner or later, the news of the miraculous escape of her poor Nicky. My own wife and my sister-in-law seemed to share their mother's point of view. I respected their feeligns, but I knew the Bolsheviks sufficiently well to realize the sher impossibility of a 'happy ending'.


Was this written by a ghost writer?

As for myself,  that was a personal opinion and I had added that I had never known the Dowager, and, yes,  I do think she never stopped hoping her sons were alive in her heart but the mind knows, and reasons, and can admit that they did die.  This is a complex battle between hope and reality.

So,  back to the box of jewels.

If Anna Anderson had convinced the Dowager that she was her granddaughter Anastasia,  do you think she would have shared some of her jewels with her granddaughter and still given the greatest portion to her daughters?

AGRBear
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

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Re: Anastasia Inheritance Would Have Been What?
« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2004, 02:10:11 PM »
Quote

If Anna Anderson had convinced the Dowager that she was her granddaughter Anastasia,  do you think she would have shared some of her jewels with her granddaughter and still given the greatest portion to her daughters?

AGRBear


But she DIDN'T...so your question is meaningless. NOBODY in the Romanov family BELIEVED it. None of them, never. The family was firmly convinced to a one that AA was NOT Anastasia and called her "the best of the imposters".

Offline Candice

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Re: Anastasia Inheritance Would Have Been What?
« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2004, 02:46:13 PM »
AGRBear, what if exactly!  That's interesting.  If the real Anastasia had survived what would she have been entitled too?

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Re: Anastasia Inheritance Would Have Been What?
« Reply #20 on: October 27, 2004, 02:52:27 PM »
PROBABLY, she would have been entitled to her and her sisters' german bank accounts, and the Hesse property of Alix's. Thats about it, IF she could have been proven to have really been AN

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Anastasia Inheritance Would Have Been What?
« Reply #21 on: October 27, 2004, 02:53:47 PM »
That's exactly how they referred to her - the best of the imposters. I really don't know, AGR Bear, what MF would have done if one of her grandchildren had survived. I would expect she would have seen that she was well married rather than giving her part of the "treasure". Remember, MF and her daughters were virtually paupers except for the jewels - whereas a grandchild could have provided for herself - as Alix's daughters clearly could.

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Anastasia Inheritance Would Have Been What?
« Reply #22 on: October 27, 2004, 02:59:18 PM »
Okay.

That is understandable.

This thread is, however,  if the real Anastasia had been the only child to have survived, what would her inheritance been?

I was asking about the jewels in the box kept by the Dowager Empress.  And,  the Forum Admin. has stated that the jewels would not have gone to Anastasia but just to her daughters, Olga and Xenia.  

Due to Forum Admin. misunderstanding,  and,  my mention of Anna Anderson, instead of  staying with  "if the real Anasatsia and been the only chldren to have survived",  I caused some emotions which were not my intentions.

I will assume, unless corrected,  that this matter is an "unknown" since no one could know if the Dowager would have or would not have given the "real" Anastasia, if she had lived, some of the jewels.

While I wait to get my book  [yes,  I've bought another book], THE LOST FORTUNE OF THE TSARS by Willaim Clarke,  I thumbed through some of the old books.  And,  I think that until recently, there were alot of people who believed there was a great fortune to be gotten by a "real" claimant who could prove he/she was the child of Nicholas II and Alexandra.

Just because it's here on my desk,  let me open THE HUNT FOR THE CZAR by Guy Richards and let me write what he and many others had thought for a very long time, especially in the 1920s and early 1930s pps 48-51.  I do not know what was his personal holdings or the govt..  Since he was a monarch,  I assume he held ownership:

1.  The Tsar had gold mines in Russia and in foreign countries
2.  He had several million dollars in the Mendelson Bank in Berlin
3.  Some 2.7 billlion was sent to foreign countries and it's purpose is not certain.  Some of it may have gone to guns and amunitions while some of it may have gone to funds held in trust for the Tsar
4.  On 6 Nov 1917 a small group of people  collected about $700 million worth of jewels from the Imperial Bank in Moscow that had been the Tsars.... Rumor has it, the theives were the Bolshviks
5.  His  land holdings were huge, abot 150 million acres...


Since most of the monies, lands and jewels were taken by the Bolsheviks, was there any other wealth outside of Russia than the mines?

1. It was thought there was about $5 million in the Guaranty Trust Company of New York
2. That there was about $1 million in National City Bank
3.  There had been about $10 million in various businesses in the USA and added to this were stocks in a railroads:  Names mention are Pennsylvania Railroad, US Steel Corp., Metropolitan Life, New York subways....
4.   In  1905 according to Nicholas II's last will and testiment there was $400 million in six New York Banks. About #115 million in English Banks About $100 million in French Banks.  $132 in a Berlin Bank
5.  Small bank deposits were in Switzerland, Italy, Spain, Belgium an Holland

Not mention in this book were others.  I remember another book who linked the Tsar with J.P. Morgan and the Rothchilds, and others.....

I assume a great deal of these monies were return to Russia during the war.  I will be interested in seeing what the amounts were still in some of these placed in July of 1918.

AGRBear

 
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

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Offline Candice

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Re: Anastasia Inheritance Would Have Been What?
« Reply #23 on: October 27, 2004, 03:12:00 PM »
AGRBear, it is mind boggling why people still insist that there's nothing left?  

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Re: Anastasia Inheritance Would Have Been What?
« Reply #24 on: October 27, 2004, 04:00:08 PM »
Quote
Okay.

While I wait to get my book  [yes,  I've bought another book], THE LOST FORTUNE OF THE TSARS by Willaim Clarke,  I thumbed through some of the old books.  And,  I think that until recently, there were alot of people who believed there was a great fortune to be gotten by a "real" claimant who could prove he/she was the child of Nicholas II and Alexandra.

Just because it's here on my desk,  let me open THE HUNT FOR THE CZAR by Guy Richards and let me write what he and many others had thought for a very long time, especially in the 1920s and early 1930s pps 48-51.  I do not know what was his personal holdings or the govt..  Since he was a monarch,  I assume he held ownership:

1.  The Tsar had gold mines in Russia and in foreign countries
2.  He had several million dollars in the Mendelson Bank in Berlin
3.  Some 2.7 billlion was sent to foreign countries and it's purpose is not certain.  Some of it may have gone to guns and amunitions while some of it may have gone to funds held in trust for the Tsar
4.  On 6 Nov 1917 a small group of people  collected about $700 million worth of jewels from the Imperial Bank in Moscow that had been the Tsars.... Rumor has it, the theives were the Bolshviks
5.  His  land holdings were huge, abot 150 million acres...


Since most of the monies, lands and jewels were taken by the Bolsheviks, was there any other wealth outside of Russia than the mines?

1. It was thought there was about $5 million in the Guaranty Trust Company of New York
2. That there was about $1 million in National City Bank
3.  There had been about $10 million in various businesses in the USA and added to this were stocks in a railroads:  Names mention are Pennsylvania Railroad, US Steel Corp., Metropolitan Life, New York subways....
4.   In  1905 according to Nicholas II's last will and testiment there was $400 million in six New York Banks. About #115 million in English Banks About $100 million in French Banks.  $132 in a Berlin Bank
5.  Small bank deposits were in Switzerland, Italy, Spain, Belgium an Holland

Not mention in this book were others.  I remember another book who linked the Tsar with J.P. Morgan and the Rothchilds, and others.....

I assume a great deal of these monies were return to Russia during the war.  I will be interested in seeing what the amounts were still in some of these placed in July of 1918.
  

You should really have waited for the Lost Fortune of the Tsar.By 1918 Guaranty Trust, Morgan Bank, Citibank, a total of roughly $70million. ALL was Russian Goverment funds, not personal money. NOT ONE SHARE of stock in the US existed in Nicholas's name or even any way tied to him. NO personal money in the US.
Every farthing in Barings Bank (the only UK bank with Russian funds in 1918) ALSO govermental funds and not personal to Nicholas.
There were huge bills to be paid owing to war debts by the Tsarist and Provisional regimes. The foreign funds all went to pay these debts. There were NO TRUST FUNDS for Nicholas' personal money. The only deposits found outside of Russia were as mentioned, the children's money in Berlin. PERIOD.

For the fifteenth time in this forum alone THERE WAS NO HUGE FORTUNE. Hunt for the Tsar got it WRONG. The money trail has been chased down and it ISN"T there.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by admin »

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Anastasia Inheritance Would Have Been What?
« Reply #25 on: October 27, 2004, 04:12:20 PM »
Not only that - had there been money, it would have been distributed to their many heirs who really needed the money. It is ludicrous to go over this again and again, so I won't.

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Anastasia Inheritance Would Have Been What?
« Reply #26 on: October 27, 2004, 04:23:10 PM »
Let see if I can explain this for Forum Admin..

It doesn't matter what you and I know today.

It matters what people believed in the 1920s and early 1930s or even as late as the 1950s

I think the majority of people thought the Romanovs had a great deal of wealth waiting to be collected outside of Russia.

In this thread,  it is understood that Anastasia did survive and that she would collect her inheritance which was.....???

Admin. Forum mentioned property of her mother's in Hess.  Which was?  And what was it's worth?

What else?

AGRBear
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

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Re: Anastasia Inheritance Would Have Been What?
« Reply #27 on: October 27, 2004, 04:25:20 PM »
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PROBABLY, she would have been entitled to her and her sisters' german bank accounts, and the Hesse property of Alix's. Thats about it, IF she could have been proven to have really been AN

I had ALREADY answered your question.

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Anastasia Inheritance Would Have Been What?
« Reply #28 on: October 27, 2004, 04:39:24 PM »
I find it difficult to believe that Nicholas II and Alexandra would not have placed some "back up" wealth in case of an emergency in more than one country.

If I remember correctly,  Nicholas II and Alexandra were drawing money from somewhere through someone to pay for the eggs and bacon while they were under arrest by the Bolsheviks.  I don't think the Bolsheviks paid their bills which gave them a doctor, servents, staff to cook, maid or maids, people who cleaned..... etc. from March 1917 to July 1918.

Anyway,  what was the names of the properties her mother and aunt owned in Hesse?

Does anyone know anything about them that they can share here?

AGRBear
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

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Re: Anastasia Inheritance Would Have Been What?
« Reply #29 on: October 27, 2004, 04:45:42 PM »
They didn't. period. Nicholas repatriated all of his money from overseas at the outbreak of WWI, as an example for the aristocracy of Russia to do the same. Remember, they honestly belived they would go either to England or Livadia, they never saw the need to have "secret funds" overseas.  THERE WAS NO HUGE ROMANOV FORTUNE outside Russia. People may have honestly thought so in the 1920s, which WAS the motive for imposters, but as I have said, the reality was otherwise.  The money for their support in captivity came from friends and relations in Petersburg mostly, and for a while from confiscated Russian bank accounts of their own money.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by admin »