Author Topic: Grand Duke Ludwig IV  (Read 88686 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Sarai

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 999
    • View Profile
Re: Grand Duke Ludwig IV
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2004, 03:10:17 PM »
Here is some information that I found on Alexandrine on the Peerage.com website:

"Countess Alexandrine Hutten-Czapska
b. 3 September 1854, d. 8 May 1941,

Countess Alexandrine Hutten-Czapska was the daughter of Count Adam Hutten-Czapsky and Countess Marianne Rzewuska. She was born on 3 September 1854 at Warsaw, Poland.

She married, firstly, Alexander von Kolemine on 2 February 1873. She and Alexander von Kolemine were divorced in March 1884.

She married, secondly, Basil von Bacheracht after 1884.

She married, thirdly, Ludwig IV Friedrich Wilhelm Karl Großherzog von Hessen und bei Rhein (of the House of Hesse), son of Karl Wilhelm Ludwig Prinz General von Hessen und bei Rhein (of the House of Hesse) and Marie Elisabeth Caroline Viktoria Prinzessin von Preußen (of the House of Hohenzollern), on 30 April 1884 at Darmstadt, Hessen, Germany. She and Ludwig IV Friedrich Wilhelm Karl Großherzog von Hessen und bei Rhein (of the House of Hesse) were divorced on 9 July 1884.

She died on 8 May 1941 at age 86 at Vevey, Switzerland.  She gained the title of Countess von Romrod on 31 May 1884."

Offline JM

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 406
    • View Profile
Re: Grand Duke Ludwig IV
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2004, 12:00:44 PM »
I've read that Alexandra Kolemine or Countess Czapaska secretly married Alix's father. I think it was around the time of Victoria's marriage to Louis of Battenburg. Apparently she was the divorced wife of a Russian diplomat. Does anybody know what became of her? How did her "relationship" with the Grand Duke get started? Did the children ever find out about her?

Offline Sarai

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 999
    • View Profile
Re: Grand Duke Ludwig IV
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2004, 02:24:12 PM »
Check on the thread here called "Alix's father." There is some information about her there.

Offline JM

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 406
    • View Profile
Re: Grand Duke Ludwig IV
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2004, 03:07:11 PM »
Thanks, Sarai. I found it!

Offline grandduchessella

  • Global Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 13153
  • Getting Ready to Move to Europe :D
    • View Profile
    • Facebook page
Re: Grand Duke Ludwig IV
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2004, 11:14:25 PM »
Here is an extract from a letter QV wrote to Victoria Hesse regarding Alexandra Kolemine or that "dreadful woman" as QV calls her.  ;)

Subject:  Queen Victoria to Victoria of Hesse, 11 October 1884 Balmoral Castle

Darling Victoria,
For 3 or 4 days I have been intending to write to you to thank you for your dear letter... Dear Papa is well-- & we are so happy to have him with us-- as we love him so much-- but he is often very sad & very depressed & I fear all these appeals of that dreadful woman worry & distress him *terribly.* If only an end cld. be put to it & if this dreadful woman cld. be seen by *him* in the *true light* & he never see her or hear from her! But she has written to him again only just now-- wanting to have the whole urtheil veröffentlicht [verdict published]. He sent the letter to Lothersen & did not answer it. He is so worried & distressed that he *ought* to, & *must get away.* Uncle  Bertie is very strong abt. it, so are some of his people & all of us. He will never be able to break with the *whole* thing & with her-- unless he gets quite away-- & the opportunity to visit Uncle Arthur who leaves in April-- may never present itself again. His remaining at Darmstadt or in the neighbourhood wld. keep up the whole thing & annoy him dreadfully. *Believe* me it is *the only* thing to cheer him up & set him again. He shld. go to India
after Christmas & be back the middle or end of March. I assure you it is the *only* thing for him to do. I must end my letter...
Ever your devoted Grandmama
V.R.I.

Queen Victoria had pressured him into divorcing her, but the lady was understandably less than happy about that. She continued writing to the Grand Duke, eventually resorted to blackmail, and was finally bought off with a title and an annual pension. She remarried. The Grand Duke never did.

They also serve who only stand and wait--John Milton
Come visit on Pinterest--http://pinterest.com/lawrbk/

Offline ChristineM

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2882
    • View Profile
Re: Grand Duke Ludwig IV
« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2004, 05:34:07 AM »
Thomas

One thing I find interesting and very 'human' about Grand Duke Louis (Alix's father) was his romance (years after the death of his wife) and very brief morganatic marriage to Madame de Kolemine the former wife of a Russian diplomat to the Hessian Court.  

His children were very fond of her.   Although they may have tolerated her as his mistress, she was obviously a totally unsuitable stepmother.

Do you know what became of this woman after, at Queen Victoria's instigation and the Prince of Wales intervention, the marriage was annulled?   I have always assumed she returned to Russia.   She seems to have disappeared into the mists of history.

Offline ChristineM

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2882
    • View Profile
Re: Grand Duke Ludwig IV
« Reply #21 on: May 24, 2004, 05:38:00 AM »
To Thomas -

Apologies, I had not read the 'threads' far enough.   Now I have my answer.

Offline Ilana

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 730
  • I love any info on VMH
    • View Profile
    • Queen Victoria's Granddaughters
Re: Grand Duke Ludwig IV
« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2004, 05:21:35 PM »
I was at Seeheim a few years ago... just looking at the place where Louis B. proposed to VMH... the house is in horrible condition and about to fall down, but the area is lovely.
So long and thanks for all the fish

Sunny

  • Guest
Re: Grand Duke Ludwig IV
« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2004, 09:44:05 PM »
Thomas, what an endearing piece...thank you so much.

Sunny

Offline Ilana

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 730
  • I love any info on VMH
    • View Profile
    • Queen Victoria's Granddaughters
Re: Grand Duke Ludwig IV
« Reply #24 on: June 02, 2004, 04:15:55 PM »
Went to look, Thomas.  What good news!  I wonder if they might commemorate Louis and Victoria in some way...!
So long and thanks for all the fish

Offline Greg_King

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 580
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
    • Atlantis Magazine
Re: Grand Duke Ludwig IV
« Reply #25 on: June 08, 2004, 04:46:47 AM »
Quote
Helen!

I would so like to know which rooms were which from the exterior pictures of the Neues Palais - say for example which window would have been Alice's bedroom, where Alexandra+'s rooms were... Was there ever a plan of the palace?


Elisa-

In our special issue of Atlantis dedicated to the Hessian-Romanov connection, we reproduced the complete floorplans for the Neues Palais, drawn up in 1902 for the Grand Duke.  I don't remember the issue number, but you should be able to find it listed on the Atlantis website if you're interested.

Greg King

Offline grandduchessella

  • Global Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 13153
  • Getting Ready to Move to Europe :D
    • View Profile
    • Facebook page
Re: Grand Duke Ludwig IV
« Reply #26 on: June 08, 2004, 10:37:19 AM »
Quote
I have been wondering whether anyone has any information on - or photographs of - Alexandrine Kolemine, the mistress of Grand Duke Ludwig IV after the death of Princess Alice. They were married for a couple of days in 1884, till Queen Victoria ordered the annulment of the marriage.  


Here is an extract from a letter QV wrote to Victoria Hesse regarding Alexandra Kolemine or that "dreadful woman" as QV calls her.

Subject: Queen Victoria to Victoria of Hesse, 11 October 1884 Balmoral Castle

Darling Victoria,
For 3 or 4 days I have been intending to write to you to thank you for your dear letter... Dear Papa is well-- & we are so happy to have him with us-- as we love him so much-- but he is often very sad & very depressed & I fear all these appeals of that dreadful woman worry & distress him *terribly.* If only an end cld. be put to it & if this dreadful woman cld. be seen by *him* in the *true light* & he never see her or hear from her! But she has written to him again only just now-- wanting to have the whole urtheil veröffentlicht [verdict published]. He sent the letter to Lothersen & did not answer it. He is so worried & distressed that he *ought* to, & *must get away.* Uncle Bertie is very strong abt. it, so are some of his people & all of us. He will never be able to break with the *whole* thing & with her-- unless he gets quite away-- & the opportunity to visit Uncle Arthur who leaves in April-- may never present itself again. His remaining at Darmstadt or in the neighbourhood wld. keep up the whole thing & annoy him dreadfully. *Believe* me it is *the only* thing to cheer him up & set him again. He shld. go to India
after Christmas & be back the middle or end of March. I assure you it is the *only* thing for him to do. I must end my letter...
Ever your devoted Grandmama
V.R.I.

Queen Victoria had pressured him into divorcing her, but the lady was understandably less than happy about that. She continued writing to the Grand Duke, eventually resorted to blackmail, and was finally bought off with a title and an annual pension. She remarried. The Grand Duke never did.
They also serve who only stand and wait--John Milton
Come visit on Pinterest--http://pinterest.com/lawrbk/

Offline Sarai

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 999
    • View Profile
Re: Grand Duke Ludwig IV
« Reply #27 on: June 17, 2004, 03:16:28 PM »
He was Godfather to Princess Victoria of Great Britain (daughter of Edward VII) and to Princess Alice of Great Britain (Countess of Athlone, daughter of Queen Victoria's son Prince Leopold).

Offline grandduchessella

  • Global Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 13153
  • Getting Ready to Move to Europe :D
    • View Profile
    • Facebook page
Re: Grand Duke Ludwig IV
« Reply #28 on: June 18, 2004, 10:00:58 PM »
Quote
Thanks for this information! It must have been a very awkward situation for the whole family. I wonder how Grand Duke Ludwig felt about it "afterwards". Do we have any reference to Alexandra Kolemine from later years?


I haven't found any references in later years, but did come across a letter Ella wrote to her father in April 1884 which sheds some light on how some of the info about AK may have come out:

Victoria [her sister] read me your telegramme this
morning and V. was very unhappy about it so I write to
explain to you what I did so as to show you what I
wrote...As I have been always writing and saying my inner thoughts to Aunt [Beatrice] I thought it would not be breaking my promise [not to speak of her father'smistress, Mme. Kolemine] if I said I knew there was
somebody you admired very much-- of course I did not
mention names-- I am *very very sorrow* [sic] indeed
if I have caused you any trouble with the relations
but my great love for you made me act imprudently-- I
see my greatest fault is I ought to have told you and
Victoria I was going to write and have asked your
permission. Please forgive me and tell me if in any
way I can make good what I have done.

Ever your loving child
Ella
They also serve who only stand and wait--John Milton
Come visit on Pinterest--http://pinterest.com/lawrbk/

Offline grandduchessella

  • Global Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 13153
  • Getting Ready to Move to Europe :D
    • View Profile
    • Facebook page
Re: Grand Duke Ludwig IV
« Reply #29 on: June 19, 2004, 03:25:10 AM »
Yes, I get many letters from romanovletters on yahoo groups--now my secret's out and I won't get compliments anymore!  ;)  A lot of the letters are also published in A Lifelong Passion and in Advice to a Granddaughter (QV's letters to Victoria of Hesse)
They also serve who only stand and wait--John Milton
Come visit on Pinterest--http://pinterest.com/lawrbk/