Author Topic: Felix Yusupov and Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch  (Read 80985 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Retty

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
  • ~*~*~*~*~
    • View Profile
Re: Felix Yusupov and Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch
« Reply #15 on: February 29, 2004, 04:16:10 PM »
hi! this is my first post on here and i'm sorry to say that it isn't a very interesting one but how exactly do you pronounce Yussupov?

Offline Nick_Nicholson

  • Boyar
  • **
  • Posts: 199
  • www.objectofvirtue.com
    • View Profile
    • Nicholas B. A. Nicholson
Re: Felix Yusupov and Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch
« Reply #16 on: February 29, 2004, 05:43:36 PM »
It is correctly pronounced "yu-SOO-poff" with the accent on the second syllable.

Generally in Russian words and names, but not always, it is the second syllable which is stressed (tol-STOY, ro-MAN-ov, shu-VAL-ov. Unless, in a multisyllabic word, the root syllable of the original word is present in other than the secondary position. (STRO-gan-ov, OR-lov, etc.)(Never mind.  Too complicated for here.)

The name Iusupov (or Yusoupoff, as the family spelled it) is drawn from the name of their ancestor Yusuf, who converted to Orthodoxy (see Greg King's biography of Princess Zinaida Yusupov on the site).  The "ov" ending in Russian is roughly the same as the french particle "de" meaning "of" Yusupov can be roughly translated as "of Yusuf"  This is not true for every name, and is a very general rule.  

"Sky" at the end of the name can mean the same thing.  For example, the Princes Beloselsky were originally from Beloselsk.  Also, illegitimate members of the Romanov family were known as "Romanovsky" meaning "of the Romanovs"

More than you asked for, sorry.  And remember, there are many exceptions.

Best,

nick
Nick Nicholson
New York City

Offline Robert_Hall

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 6649
  • a site.
    • View Profile
Re: Felix Yusupov and Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch
« Reply #17 on: February 29, 2004, 10:01:46 PM »
It would create massive confusion if we even had the ability to put any of this in Cryillic !
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline Reed

  • Boyar
  • **
  • Posts: 125
  • Nothing like a good discussion!
    • View Profile
Re: Felix Yusupov and Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2004, 11:38:44 AM »
No one has really addressed the relationship between Felix and Demitri.  Were they just really close friends or was there a physical relationship between the two?  Does anyone know? ???

Offline Robert_Hall

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 6649
  • a site.
    • View Profile
Re: Felix Yusupov and Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch
« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2004, 11:48:42 AM »
Well now, Felix made no secret of being gay. Dimitri, however was a different story. Since they are the only ones who would know for sure, and they are both dead, it is just guessing, I suppose.
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline BobAtchison

  • Moderator
  • Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 896
    • View Profile
    • The Alexander Palace
Re: Felix Yusupov and Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch
« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2004, 03:28:54 PM »
I don't think anyone knows for sure - all of the parties involved are gone.

Offline Valmont

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 379
  • I love History  !!
    • View Profile
Re: Felix Yusupov and Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch
« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2004, 07:10:47 PM »
By reading GD Dimitri's letter to Felix, you can infer GD Dimitri care much about Felix, he actually begged Felix to write him. In Victorian times that could be seen as a close friendship, with nothing out of the ordinary between two good friends,  I guess that also could disguise any other type of relationship, if there was any.
To me, they acted, before and in exile, as if they had had a relationship.

Arturo Vega Llausás
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Valmont »
Arturo Vega-Llausás

Janet Whitcomb

  • Guest
Re: Felix Yusupov and Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch
« Reply #22 on: March 23, 2004, 09:39:03 PM »
After reading the book about Felix, plus taking into account other sources, I think it highly likely they had a sexual attraction, if not an actual sexual relationship. What makes it all the more intriguing--like a Noel Coward play, updated for 2004!--is that they were both vying for Irina's hand in marriage.

Felix and Dmitri were volatile, emotionally high-strung young men, each "blessed" with good looks, a great deal of money, and not too much to do, unless it was to get into trouble. No wonder Alexandra disapproved of them!

Offline Reed

  • Boyar
  • **
  • Posts: 125
  • Nothing like a good discussion!
    • View Profile
Re: Felix Yusupov and Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch
« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2004, 10:33:34 AM »
If it is true (realizing that may never be known), it's interesting that the family simply "overlooked" with disapproval the gay lifestyle.  I wonder how the average Russian of the age would have faired being gay?    :-/

Offline Melissa_J

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Re: Felix Yusupov and Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch
« Reply #24 on: April 01, 2004, 01:10:30 PM »
I think that the average homosexual russian of that age would have faired the same way -'overlooked'. Sexuality even during that day was alot more open than what it seemed. I read somewhere  - can't think of where at the moment, that there were many prostitutes during the time - both men and women for men and women. So that their homosexuality could be hidden by getting a prostitue or overlooked if the person was not willing to deny the fact (their homosexual). And was not necesarily looked down on, just never really mentioned. So one could be homosexual, but for the most part 'overlooked' by most.
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
~ M

Janet Whitcomb

  • Guest
Re: Felix Yusupov and Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch
« Reply #25 on: April 01, 2004, 03:41:38 PM »
From what I've read, another attitude re: homosexuality seemed to be that once a man who was "that way" found the love of a "good woman," all would be corrected. Hence, the mismatch of of the "ill-behaved" Ducky to Ernie, eventually resulting in divorce . . . but a few years later, Ernie's "successful," apparently happy marriage to "Onore."

Offline Valmont

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 379
  • I love History  !!
    • View Profile
Re: Felix Yusupov and Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch
« Reply #26 on: April 01, 2004, 03:55:00 PM »
Good Point, Janet.
Does anyone knows of any more examples like this?

Arturo Vega-Llausás
Arturo Vega-Llausás

Offline JM

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 406
    • View Profile
Re: Felix Yusupov and Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch
« Reply #27 on: April 01, 2004, 04:06:48 PM »
Sergei was homosexual. I remember reading that he "calmed down" after his marriage to Ella. She was obviously instrumental in this. Saint that she is . . .

Offline LisaDavidson

  • Moderator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 2656
    • View Profile
Re: Felix Yusupov and Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch
« Reply #28 on: April 02, 2004, 12:57:55 AM »
All this discussion of Romanov homosexuality in the 19th and 20th century is anachronistic. While undoubtedly we know from his diaries that KR had homosexual experiences, people were not "gay" in the sense they are today and everyone was expected to marry a member of the opposite sex, regardless of personal preferences.

The truth is, it is next to impossible to neatly categorize these individuals as hetero, homo, or bisexual. They are all dead now, and we cannot possibily know where they stood on all of the above.

Offline Reed

  • Boyar
  • **
  • Posts: 125
  • Nothing like a good discussion!
    • View Profile
Re: Felix Yusupov and Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch
« Reply #29 on: April 02, 2004, 02:02:21 PM »
What you say is true Lisa, but like most of the discussions on this site...they deal with speculations.  The Romanov's and other noble families' behaviors played a significant role in the political situations of the time.  Their popularity ebbed and flowed with public opinions formed from what they did.  Russia was a much different place than Victorian Englad..despite what the empress thought.