Author Topic: Felix Yusupov and Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch  (Read 105197 times)

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Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Felix Yusupov and Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch
« Reply #75 on: June 07, 2009, 11:01:07 PM »
Is there any documentary evidence that Felix and Dmitri were in a homosexual relationship together?

No, this was just gossip which unfortunately continues over a century later.

Yussupov92

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Re: Felix Yusupov and Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch
« Reply #76 on: June 08, 2009, 04:15:06 PM »
One idea about the two is that unlike Dmitri, Felix was not a blood relation to the Romanovs he only married into them. Therefore, he could afford to be open about his sexuality unlike Dmitri who was a Russian grand duke.

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Felix Yusupov and Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch
« Reply #77 on: June 08, 2009, 07:30:11 PM »
Rather than gossip, Lisa, I think it was more innuendo. It was no secret that Felix is what we  would call "Gay" now.  By association, Dimitri became part of the sexual scenario. What difference does it make?  Both married, went on their respective ways in the turmoil.
 And, I doubt rank  or family had anything to bear on it.  They would not be the first in their families to be homosexual. Both families were  immensely  rich and powerful,. that overrides any moral qualms.
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Yussupov92

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Re: Felix Yusupov and Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch
« Reply #78 on: June 08, 2009, 07:43:15 PM »
Your comment that money overides moral crimes is a bit of a ridiculous attitude to have. At the time the Tsar incumbent was Nicholas II. Argued to be the most pious of the Tsars. One reason why he did not take up a mistress when he was married to Alexandra. Moreover, it is argued that Grand Duke Dmitri Pavlovitch's relationship wherever it be platonic or not was a factor why he never became engaged to Grand Duchess Olga!

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Felix Yusupov and Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch
« Reply #79 on: June 09, 2009, 04:22:31 AM »
We are not discussing NII here,  the topi  is Felox  and Dimitri.
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

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Offline imperial angel

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Re: Felix Yusupov and Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch
« Reply #80 on: June 15, 2009, 12:27:25 PM »
Your comment that money overides moral crimes is a bit of a ridiculous attitude to have. At the time the Tsar incumbent was Nicholas II. Argued to be the most pious of the Tsars. One reason why he did not take up a mistress when he was married to Alexandra. Moreover, it is argued that Grand Duke Dmitri Pavlovitch's relationship wherever it be platonic or not was a factor why he never became engaged to Grand Duchess Olga!

Where did you read about Dmitri's alleged relationship with Felix being a factor with regards to why he never got engaged to GD Olga? I think the main reason Dmitri never wed Olga was his participation in the murder of Rasputin.

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Felix Yusupov and Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch
« Reply #81 on: June 16, 2009, 12:31:46 AM »
Your comment that money overides moral crimes is a bit of a ridiculous attitude to have. At the time the Tsar incumbent was Nicholas II. Argued to be the most pious of the Tsars. One reason why he did not take up a mistress when he was married to Alexandra. Moreover, it is argued that Grand Duke Dmitri Pavlovitch's relationship wherever it be platonic or not was a factor why he never became engaged to Grand Duchess Olga!

Where did you read about Dmitri's alleged relationship with Felix being a factor with regards to why he never got engaged to GD Olga? I think the main reason Dmitri never wed Olga was his participation in the murder of Rasputin.

That really doesn't work. Rasputin's murder was scant weeks before the Revolution - it would have to have happened earlier to be the reason they didn't marry. That reason has been extensively discussed  on this Forum. Olga was very intellectual and very Christian. Dmitri was a bon vivant. While age wise a marriage between them would have made sense (at least on paper) they were completely unsuited for friendship or marriage with each other.

If Alexandra thought that Dmitri was involved in anything unsavory, she would never have allowed him around her children - and surely she did.

Offline imperial angel

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Re: Felix Yusupov and Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch
« Reply #82 on: June 18, 2009, 03:51:20 PM »
I agree with you. I was just pointing out that to say that Felix and Dmitri's alleged relationship had anything to do with why he didn't marry GD Olga is inaccurate.

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Felix Yusupov and Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch
« Reply #83 on: June 18, 2009, 06:52:53 PM »
I agree with you. I was just pointing out that to say that Felix and Dmitri's alleged relationship had anything to do with why he didn't marry GD Olga is inaccurate.

And I agree with you on that point too.

Since the Emperor had to approve all marriages in the Imperial Family, it can be surmised that Felix was not objectionable to Nicholas, because he gave her away at her wedding!

Offline JD

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Re: Felix Yusupov and Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch
« Reply #84 on: August 20, 2009, 07:55:27 PM »
I was under the impression both he & Dmitri were quite objectionable, to the extent that they were followed/harrassed by the secret service. I guess that comes from Lost Splendor though, plus it was probably fairly typical of anyone at court, so it might have been one of FY's embellishments.

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Felix Yusupov and Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch
« Reply #85 on: August 20, 2009, 08:18:37 PM »
Much of what FY wrote was embellishment!
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Felix Yusupov and Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch
« Reply #86 on: August 21, 2009, 09:53:27 PM »
I was under the impression both he & Dmitri were quite objectionable, to the extent that they were followed/harrassed by the secret service. I guess that comes from Lost Splendor though, plus it was probably fairly typical of anyone at court, so it might have been one of FY's embellishments.

Felix was married to the Emperor's only niece and Dmitri was a grand duke who was raised as part of the Emperor's family. Without doubt there would have been Okhrana surveillance based on who they were, not necessarily what they were up to.

Offline Sasha_Katerina

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Re: Felix Yusupov and Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch
« Reply #87 on: September 03, 2009, 08:38:39 PM »
the rumors about felix and dmitri in a sexual or romantic relationship, where did these rumors come from? who started them? were people saying this at the time, like 1913 or so I think is when most people think they were together, or was it only much later that people started wondering?

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Felix Yusupov and Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch
« Reply #88 on: September 04, 2009, 01:26:08 PM »
the rumors about felix and dmitri in a sexual or romantic relationship, where did these rumors come from? who started them? were people saying this at the time, like 1913 or so I think is when most people think they were together, or was it only much later that people started wondering?

Male homosexuality seems to upset people  and cause comments in general much more than females who prefer their own gender. So straight men who are friends with gay men are often (even today) the subject of gossip about whether or not they are in a gay relationship if they have such friendships. And, it happens in reverse.

This happened to me with my friend Susie who I've known since we were in diapers. When Suze moved to San Jose, we started hanging out and spending time together with her partner. Soon people were asking if I was gay, too. I said, no, Suze and I are friends. (and we still are!)

Dmitri and Felix were friends, they knew one another from childhood when DP was at Ilyinskoe and FY was at the big estate his family had nearby. When Felix returned from university, he was quite dashing and Dmitri was an officer and getting the Russian Olympics started. For a time, Felix moved in with Dimitri and Felix decorated his house.

Were they lovers? Well, there was certainly gossip to that effect and they were beautiful young men. They could also have been friends and not lovers because of their long association. Since they chose not to enlighten us on the topic, I'll go with, it's none of my business and I would of course think nothing different of either man either way.

Offline Sasha_Katerina

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Re: Felix Yusupov and Grand Duke Dmitriy Pavlovitch
« Reply #89 on: September 04, 2009, 11:59:25 PM »
You're right, Lisa, and we will never know whether the rumors are true. I agree that they aren't our business, but i was simply curious as to who specifically was saying this, whether within the Romanov family itself these rumors were being paid attention to. i never feel as if I can come to a conclusion about precisely why Dmitri was forbidden by Nicholas to see Felix, because I have heard so many different angles. If these rumors were being said in earshot of the Imperial Family, history would be influenced by their decision not to marry Olga and Dmitri, not to consider Dmitri next in line, etc. I'm just wondering who was saying these rumors, and who heard them.