Author Topic: The Monarch's Powers and Properties (current & past) in Scotland  (Read 3959 times)

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Offline carl fraley

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  I know that Falkland Palace is still technicall A "Crown Property"  but has been under the keepership of the Crichton Stuart Family since 1887 and now the National Trust for scotland is the Deputy keeper of the palace, but Can her majesty stay at Falkland if she ever chose to?  Doesn't the queen decide who resides in all "Crown Property" ?

Second, Since Stirling Castle is no longer owned by the state, I can't find any info on who actually owns Edingburgh Castle..  IS E . Castle still crown property?

Offline carl fraley

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Re: The Monarch's Powers and Properties (current & past) in Scotland
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2007, 09:29:08 PM »
Does anyone know How or what the history is  where Stirling Castle passed out of Royal ownership/control?

Offline carl fraley

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Re: The Monarch's Powers and Properties (current & past) in Scotland
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2007, 09:31:19 PM »
Are her Majesty's Constitutional powers the same in scotland?

I know that the Sovereigns powers in Scotland were a little different in King James I time, are they any different now?  Or did the Act of Union make the sovereigns powers the same in both countries?

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: The Monarch's Powers and Properties (current & past) in Scotland
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2007, 11:26:00 PM »
Here's a site with some info and photos:

http://www.undiscoveredscotland.co.uk/stirling/stirlingcastle/

I couldn't find any specific nformation on it after its uses in the 1500s. The Great Hall was later used as a military barracks until 1964, when it was decided to recreate its original appearance.

Maybe you'd have better luck in the Stuarts section finding information?
« Last Edit: June 11, 2007, 11:30:14 PM by grandduchessella »
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Offline grandduchessella

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Re: The Monarch's Powers and Properties (current & past) in Scotland
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2007, 11:34:41 PM »
A little more but nothing to specifically answer the question:

"The Union of the Crown in 1603, when the King and Court removed to London, had an important effect upon the whole of Scotland, and especially on Stirling Castle. The place fell out of notice for a considerable time, and until the great Marquess of Montrose restored the renown of Scottish chivalry its existence was placid and uneventful. The brilliant exploits of this famous commander brought renown to Scotland; and during the century which followed, the position of Stirling Castle as the key to the north by the east coast made it a scene of continued turmoil and strife. Stirling Castle was captured and held for a short time by the Covenanters. In 1651, after the defeat of General Leslie and the Covenanters at Dunbar by Cromwell, the fugitive Scots made Stirling Castle their rallying-place. This led General Monck to besiege and reduce the Castle, and to carry off many of the national documents that had been brought from Edinburgh as less secure than Stirling. It was from the Castle in the same year that Charles II. set out upon his invasion of England, which was terminated by the fatal Battle of Worcester.

At the time of the Union of the Parliaments in 1707 Stirling was one of the four Castles that were specially described as the most important in Scotland. The first trial of its strength occurred in 1715, when Argyll on his way to Sheriffmuir was well-supported from the Castle. The next attempt on the Castle was in 1745-46, when the army under Prince Charles Edward was retreating northward. The leaders of the Highland forces promised the Stirling people would not be molested; but this pledge was not respected by the Jacobites, and general plunder was the result. Preparations were made to besiege the Castle; but the conflict at Falkirk, where the Prince was victorious, led to the prolongation of the siege (against the will of Prince Charlie) until the advance of the Duke of Cumberland’s army compelled a retreat northward, which ended at Culloden. Since that time Stirling Castle has remained unassailed.

James VI. was the last Scottish Sovereign to live in residence at Stirling Castle. The Duke of of York (afterwards James VIII. and II.) was here with his family for a short time in 1685, amongst them being the daughter who became Queen Anne. In September 1842, Queen Victoria and Prince Albert visited the place; and in 1859, the Prince of Wales (afterwards Edward VII.) examined the historic Castle, so closely connected with the lives of his remote ancestors."
They also serve who only stand and wait--John Milton
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Offline ChristineM

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Re: The Monarch's Powers and Properties (current & past) in Scotland
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2007, 03:40:34 AM »
I live near Stirling Castle - a fortress similar to Edinburgh Castle built atop a volcanic plug.   There is another, less well known castle built on another volcanic plug - Dumbarton Castle.    These three fortresses were built on those, very strategically positioned lava precipices on what could be termed the 'waist' of Scotland - where the land between the estuaries of Clyde and Forth narrows to about 60 miles.   In the west - Dumbarton Castle stands alongside the River Clyde:  almost right in the middle is Stirling Castle:  on the east, like Dumbarton where the river - the Forth - in this case, reaches the sea, you will find Edinburgh Castle.   Those three castles presented an awesome, impenetrable presence to any prospective invader - usually Highland clans.

Stirling Castle is closely associated with Mary, Queen of Scots.   She was baptised there.   Thankyou Grandduchessella for opening some old memory banks.   You are right.   This topic would be much more at home among the Stuarts.   

tsaria

PS:  For anyone who might feel inclined, the Great Hall of Stirling Castle, to which Ella refers, is available for rent - for a wedding, a ball or even for the Alexander Palace Discussion Forum members to have one heck of a ceilidh.   Martyn will by in charge of the design, of course.


Offline ChristineM

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Re: The Monarch's Powers and Properties (current & past) in Scotland
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2007, 04:09:46 AM »
Carlfraley - Another interesting post from you and I can see why this one is posted amongst the Windsors - HM, after all, is a Windsor.   There might be a drop or two of Stuart blood lingering in there.

The simple answer is yes, in practice, but it is more complicated than that.   The union of the Scottish and English parliaments post-dated the Union of the Crowns.   (Theoretically, Queen Elizabeth is the First, not the Second, in Scotland.   It was England which had a previous Queen Elizabeth - a truly remarkable woman she was.   We had a Queen Margaret (another remarakble woman) but never an Elizabeth before the current one.)   The Queen's constitutional powers are, currently, the same in Scotland.   

Through its new, devolved parliament, Scotland has reclaimed the governance of certain - mostly local - matters.   However, there appears to be a gathering momentum in favour of Scotland severing her constitutional links with the rest of the UK.   The Queen is reported to be alarmed by the prospect of the 'break-up' of her kingdom.    However, when a Scottish Nationalist member became First Minister of a minority government in Scotland only last month, HM flew immediately to the Palace of Holyrood House to, formally, greet him.   (More than the prime minister or the prospective prime minister could bring themselves to do.   The prime minister would rather make overtures to Colonel Gadaffi of Libya).   

I cannot write on behalf of the people of Scotland, but I think I can safely say that even should there be a Scotland totally independent of London (Westminster) rule, Queen Elizabeth will remain our Head of State.

tsaria

In Scotland, we live in interesting times.   I think this has largely been precipitated by a total disillusion by current political situation in the UK as a whole.   

Offline ChristineM

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Re: The Monarch's Powers and Properties (current & past) in Scotland
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2007, 11:32:05 AM »
Historic Scotland is the custodian of Edinburgh Castle and Stirling Castle on behalf of the nation (of Scotland).

Ninian Crighton Stuart is the 'Keeper' of Falkland Palace.   The late Diana, Princess of Wales mother - Mrs Frances Shand Kydd - owned a house in Falkland where she ran a bed and breakfast business.

There is a 'real' tennis court at Falkland Palace and, if my memory serves me correctly, the present Earl and Countess of Wessex first met at a 'real' tennis match while she was working for a PR company which hosted the event..   Whether that meeting took place at Falkland Palace or not, I cannot say.

Balmoral Castle is owned by the Queen.   It is her private property.   She also has apartments within the Palace of Holyrood House.   This is the monarch's official residence in Scotland.

tsaria


Offline carl fraley

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Re: The Monarch's Powers and Properties (current & past) in Scotland
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2007, 06:02:20 PM »
thanks, i'm fully aware of hm private estate but the paticular interest i'm lookin for was mainly the 2 castles or Former Royal residences of Scottish monarchs before the act of union and if any were actually still "Crown Property" .  If not when and where were they turned over to private individuals?

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: The Monarch's Powers and Properties (current & past) in Scotland
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2007, 06:23:29 PM »
This bit, from the reign of James I, might give a clue:

"With this new relationship with Parliament and their seeming wish to grant subsidies, James became more and more extravagant. The splendour of Whitehall, when compared to the royal palace at Holyrood, convinced James that he was wealthy or that he had access to money from a generous Parliament. He became a lavish spender – his coronation cost £20,591. This was mirrored by his wife, Anne of Denmark. She developed a love of fine clothes and expensive jewels. James also believed that his three children – two boys and a girl – should also live in a manner befitting princes and a princess. James also gave away lavish gifts. One courtier who had worked under Elizabeth I, Sir Dudley Carleton, claimed that James gave away more in one year than Elizabeth had done in the whole of her 45-year reign. It is generally considered that James had great difficulty with understanding the most basic of fiscal responsibility. He would happily give away £100 without any thought if it was not in his possession, but he would keep a firm grip on just £1 if it was actually in his hand. To compensate for any requirement of money, James, like Elizabeth, sold off Crown Lands. This became such a problem that in 1604 and 1609, Cecil persuaded James to pass on the more valuable Crown properties to be run by the Privy Council."

"James I was not the first English monarch to experience financial trouble. Chief Minister Robert Cecil, the Earl of Salisbury, used numerous methods to bail out James who was a king who had little understanding of finance. Farming out custom dues and impositions were both used. Though they were successful in terms of the amount they raised for James, they both did not do a great deal to decrease the most pressing of James's needs - reducing his overall royal debt. Robert Cecil was therefore forced into doing something he least wanted to do - sell off Crown lands - as he knew that once land was sold, it was lost to the Crown and future revenue collection.Between 1603 and 1609 Crown land and property to the value of £400,000 had been sold. This so concerned Cecil, that he persuaded the king to entail the most valuable of Crown land and hand over its administration to the Privy Council. With a more concerted efforts in the collection of outstanding rent and debt, a total of £700,000 had been collected which should have had a significant impact on royal debt by 1610. However, for all the work done by Cecil, the Crown was still in debt to the tune of £160,000 by 1610. Cecil also had to cope with an extra £80,000 added to the total in 1610 as a result of James's extravagent spending. "
« Last Edit: June 12, 2007, 06:27:57 PM by grandduchessella »
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Offline Duke of New Jersey

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Re: The Monarch's Powers and Properties (current & past) in Scotland
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2007, 07:08:15 PM »
I guess the colonies weren't raking much in then.

-Duke of NJ

Offline ChristineM

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Re: The Monarch's Powers and Properties (current & past) in Scotland
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2007, 07:23:02 AM »
Royal and formerly royal castles and palaces of Scotland, so far as I am aware - Stirling Castle, Edinburgh Castle, Palace of Holyrood House, Dumbarton Castle, Falkland Palace and Linlithgow Palace.   

Mary, Queen of Scots was born in Linlithgow Palace.   It is now a ruin - a spectacular ruin, but a ruin.

This former royal palace is now in the custody of Historic Scotland.

There is also Scone Palace (pronounced 'Skoon').   This was the ancient crowning place of Scottish kings.   Scone was the capital of an ancient Pictish kingdom.   The Stone of Destiny upon which all British monarchs sit at their Coronation, was removed from Scone Palace to Westminster Abbey.   It has now been returned to Edinburgh and will return to Westminster Abbey for future coronations.

tsaria