Author Topic: Princess Thyra's Illegitimate Daughter  (Read 63326 times)

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Ksenia

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Princess Thyra's Illegitimate Daughter
« on: November 07, 2004, 07:32:11 AM »
Okay this is really going to make me sound dumb *lol*! ;)
I was watching the series 'A Royal Family', and I was watching the espisode about Princess Thyra and Prince Waldamer. It then went on to talk about Princess Thyra having some sort of 'crush' on an Danish Officer called Wilhelm Marker (I think that was his name !) and he fall's madly in love with Thyra. Queen Louise did know about this and she just called it a 'Youthful Fling', and did not think much of it.
But when Thyra was 18 she went on a visit to Greece. The Danish Goverment said the offical reason was that she was visiting her brother King George of Greece. But the REAL reason was that the 18 year old Princess was pregant, by this officer. She gave birth to a baby daughter, and after she is born is put up for adoption.
After this Thyra is is unwell, so her father and younger brother travel to Greece. Once she was better they then traveled to Rome.
Not long after this the young officer (Wilhelm Maker) takes his oen life. Thyra breaks down, and not long after this Thyra falls ill with Typhoid. I think this is around the time Queen Victoria's son Alfred takes an interest in Thrya .......
Does any one have any information on Thyra's illegitimate daughter ? :)

Alicky1872

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Re: Princess Thyra's Illegitimate Daughter
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2004, 07:53:41 AM »
This is a fascinating subject! If you go to the Windsors section, and click on the THORA thread, you should find all the information you need there, as this subject has been written about already.

Ksenia

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Re: Princess Thyra's Illegitimate Daughter
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2004, 07:55:22 AM »
Okay ! Thanks Alicky ! ;)

Offline Eurohistory

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Re: Princess Thyra's Illegitimate Daughter
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2004, 12:21:26 PM »
Coryne Hall, I believe, also talks about this in Little Mother of Russia.

In A ROYAL FAMILY it is openly discussed by many of the family, but I believe one of the very first authors to mentionj this child was Bo Bramsen in his magnificent two-volume book Huset Glucksborg.

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Alicky1872

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Re: Princess Thyra's Illegitimate Daughter
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2004, 02:25:59 PM »
Oh goodness, I didn't realize they actually talked about it in A Royal Family! I know it's many many years ago, but one has the feeling that if it was an English Royal Family "scandal" it would not be spoken about by them in a documentary! I bet it's interesting to hear about! I'm hopefully getting the dvd for Christmas, can't wait!

Ksenia

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Re: Princess Thyra's Illegitimate Daughter
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2004, 03:20:06 PM »
Yes, in the programe 'a Royal Family', they talk, quite about the issue (this is were I first heard of it ). Alicky, I too want the DVD of it ! It was such a good series ! ;D

Nanny_Orchard

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Re: Princess Thyra's Illegitimate Daughter
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2004, 04:02:16 PM »

Queen Alexandra and Empress Maria Feodorovna's sister, Princess Thyra of Denmark, gave birth to an illegitimate child in 1871. The child was named Maria but her name was changed to Kate after a couple named Jorgensen adopted her. Kate Jorgensen married a man named Frode Ployen-Holstein in 1902. She died in 1964.

Kate was fathered by Vilhelm Frimann Marcher. Though I don't speak Danish, I know enough German to guess that "Frimann" is a cognate of the German word "Freiherr," meaning Baron. Was Marcher a courtier at the Danish court? I also read somewhere that he may have committed suicide because he wasn't allowed to marry Thyra or raise his own child. Does anyone know if the suicide story is true?

It's astonishing that a sheltered, chaperoned 19th-century princess would give birth to a child out of wedlock. Although, to be sure, Thyra's wasn't a unique case: one of George III's daughters, Princess Sophia, had an illegitimate child. Also, there was a German princess, whose name escapes me at the moment, who was seduced by a footman and gave birth to a child. Most members of royalty shunned this princess, but Queen Victoria received her and treated her with compassion.

I would love to know more about Princess Thyra. I am amazed at the erudition displayed by the regulars on this board. Surely someone knows her story?

Was there a tremendous scandal at the time? Did she ever see her daughter after the adoption? Was Kate Jorgensen told who her birth parents were? Was Thyra received at the English and Russian courts, or was she persona non grata? I have often wondered about Thyra's marriage. She made a fairly good marriage (though it did not approach the illustriousness of Dagmar and Alexandra's matches) to Prince Ernst August of Hanover. Did he have to be bribed with an enormous dowry to persuade him to take this "tainted" princess to wife? Or did he love her enough to forgive her past?



Offline Eurohistory

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Re: Princess Thyra's Illegitimate Daughter
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2004, 05:37:53 PM »
Thyra's pregnancy was kept extremely quiet and within the family circle...to "recover from her illness," she and mother headed south to Italy I believe or Southern France, where the birth took place and all was arranged to erase memory of the love child.

I believe Bo Bramsen's excellent opus on the Glücksborgs, Huset Glücksborg , was the first time this love child was mentioned in a published book...priori to that it hd been a quiet family rumor, never talked about, bt known to many.

As for the Mecklenburg-Strelitz, one can only wish this had been addressed in the same manner for the sake of poor Duchess Marie, who was not only widely talked about, but thrown out by her own parents.  This scandal was better known when the Socialist press in Berlin got a hold of it...Marie later on married an infamous man, Count Jametel, by whom he had two children, and later divorced him.  her seonc husband was Prince Ernst Julius of Lippe, by whom she had a further two children.

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Nanny_Orchard

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Re: Princess Thyra's Illegitimate Daughter
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2004, 04:16:53 PM »
Dear Arturo and Sarai,

Thank you both very much for sharing the additional information.

Arturo, you are completely right about the shabby treatment that was meted out to the Mecklenberg princess. It wasn't her fault. I've read that the seduction happened because a footman was assigned the task of extinguishing the candles in the palace bedchambers. That gave him entree into  all the bedrooms, even those occupied by unmarried girls. He used this access to take advantage of the naive Princess Marie, who during the daytime would never have been allowed to spend time unchaperoned in the compamy of a young man.

Thyra's parents handled the situation admirably. I'm still wondering if Kate Jorgensen had any knowledge of her birth and if she ever met Princess Thyra. And I'd like to know the circumstances of Thyra's marriage to the Hanover heir and how much the Hanovers were told about Thyra's indiscretion. Given the recent loss of their throne, you'd have thought they'd have preferred a princess of unblemished standing to bolster their efforts to get the throne back.

Offline Marlene

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Re: Princess Thyra's Illegitimate Daughter
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2004, 07:26:24 PM »

I believe Bo Bramsen's excellent opus on the Glücksborgs, Huset Glücksborg , was the first time this love child was mentioned in a published book...priori to that it hd been a quiet family rumor, never talked about, bt known to many.

Although Maria is rumored to the child, it has not been fully acknowleged that she was the one.  No one denies that Thyra had a child - and it was unlikely that she ever saw the child or had contact with the family.

.Marie later on married an infamous man, Count Jametel, by whom he had two children,

and Jametel was Infanta Eulalia's lover.
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Offline Marlene

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Re: Princess Thyra's Illegitimate Daughter
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2004, 07:28:56 PM »
Notice that Thyra's husband was not reigning royalty - one would assume that her pregnancy was not unknown among the family -- but she remained a daughter of the King of Denmark, and therefore, relatively eligible.

She did however suffer a mental breakdown of sorts during her one of her later pregnancies and was hospitalized for most of that time.

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Offline Martyn

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Re: Princess Thyra's Illegitimate Daughter
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2004, 03:43:23 AM »
Thyra no doubt had to contend with the added burden of the suicide of her child's father, which cannot have bee easy for her.
Is it true that he killed himself after a stormy interview with King Christian, in which he expressed his desire to marry Thyra?
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Offline Marlene

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Re: Princess Thyra's Illegitimate Daughter
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2004, 09:29:21 PM »
[cannot have bee easy for her.
Is it true that he killed himself after a stormy interview with King Christian, in which he expressed his desire to marry Thyra?[/quote]

POssible - but in those days - it was far more difficult (and unlikely) to report on such things - except through illusionary reports in the media .. speculation - no names, things like that.  It was a lot easier to hush up so much.
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Nanny_Orchard

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Re: Princess Thyra's Illegitimate Daughter
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2005, 12:51:39 PM »
I read in a post elsewhere on this board that Princess Thyra's Hannoverian husband had no nose! Could that possibly be true? If so, how did he lose it? Syphillis? In battle?

Does anyone know where I can see a picture of him? I have this mental image of the prince with a silver nose strapped to his face, like Lee Marvin in "Cat Ballou."

Offline Katia

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Re: Princess Thyra's Illegitimate Daughter
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2005, 03:54:56 PM »
Well, he actually had a nose, but it was quite a small one...  ;D
I think Thyra (or maybe some of her siblings) was just making little fun of his looks.
You can see a picture of Ernst August and Thyra with their children here:
http://http://www.geocities.com/jesusib/Thyra.html

Katia