Marie Feodorovna--WWI and the Crimea

[jfkhaos]

I have read that at one point the Empress moved to Kiev and basically lived there instead of in the capital, and that is was due to a rift with Nicholas over the influence of Rasputin in the immediate Imperial Family.  Can anyone elaborate on this?  Where did the Empress reside in Kiev?  Thanks in advance!

[LisaDavidson]

I'll need to look this up, but I believe MF had a home in Kiev. The final blow up with Nicholas must have been devastating to them both. It was a long time in coming. At the time of his marriage, Nicholas was very close to his mother and very much influenced by her. Over the years, Alexandra gained the influence his mother formerly had over him, and this indeed came to a head around the time of the first world war.

[Sarai]

Marie did indeed live in Kiev for a time. From my edition of Nicholas and Alexandra (pg. 358): "Early in November [1916], Nicholas, with Alexis, went to Kiev to inspect hospitals and to visit his mother, who was living away from Petrograd [...] In Kiev, Nicholas had thought to relax from the problems of war and government. Instead, in their first conversation Marie demanded that he dismiss Sturmer and push Rasputin away from the throne."

I don't know where she lived in Kiev or if indeed she moved there because of the Rasputin scandal, although I wouldn't be surprised if that was the motive.

[Donny]

When the Dowager Empress Marie was in Kiev, I believe that she stayed at the palace called Gatchina.

The old palace was well known to her and it was reputed to be a very cozy and comfortable place to be.  

The Empress always had her automobiles and her private train ready for use at a moments notice.

She liked  to live in a very grand manner.

[Sarai]

Actually, the Gatchina Palace was at the town of Gatchina, located southwest of St. Petersburg.

[Joanna]

I have recently seen a photo of the Mariinsky Palace in Kiev c1916-1917 and I remember being entranced to see it as I had only read references of Empress Marie residing there . And sigh I cannot remember where I found it now    If it was on the internet I hope I had printed it and it is now among my piles of papers   I will search for it!

Here is a current photo:

http://www.uazone.net/go/gallery.cgi?gallery=Kyiv&id=131

And a brief history:
Mariinsky Dvorets (Mariinsky Palace), 1750-1755. Named in honor of Tsar Alexander II's wife, the Empress Maria. This beautiful blue- and cream-colored palace is similar in style to the imperial summer estates in St. Petersburg. This building was designed by Bartolomeo Rastrelli, Empress Elizabeth's favorite architect, and built under the direction of Moscow architect Ivan Michurin. It's a lovely mixture of Ukrainian and Russian Baroque. Before the 1917 Revolution, the palace was used as residence for visiting members of the imperial family. Today, the building is used for official state functions and is closed to the public.

Joanna

[grandduchessella]

In Little Mother of Russia by Coryne Hall, it says basically that MF moved to Kiev to ease the tension that had reached a boiling point between her & Alexandra and put Nicholas squarely in the middle. It was thought distance would be best, I guess. MF & Nicholas continued to write many affectionate letters though right up until the end--not dutiful ones, but ones full of genuine emotion, so maybe the move did have a healing effect.

[leanora]

  I can't imagine the empress dowager living so far from the capital... she loved too much the balls, the celebrates and the ostentation of Saint petersburg and she was so closed to her childrens and grand daughters.. I suppose she didn't stay a long time in this Mariinsky palace (which is a wonderful place)  

[grandduchessella]

I can't imagine the empress dowager living so far from the capital... she loved too much the balls, the celebrates and the ostentation of Saint petersburg and she was so closed to her childrens and grand daughters.. I suppose she didn't stay a long time in this Mariinsky palace (which is a wonderful place)  

She did indeed move there for a good stretch of time--she may have visited St Petersburg, but I think Kiev was her home, especially once WW1 broke out.

[Louise]

I believe that once Alexander III passed away, the Dowager Empress began to travel and visit her family in other countries. She spent time with her sister in England, and with her family in Denmark and Greece.

But like other posters here, I feel she moved to give space between her and Alexandra.

Louise

[Alexa]

I can't imagine the empress dowager living so far from the capital... she loved too much the balls, the celebrates and the ostentation of Saint petersburg and she was so closed to her childrens and grand daughters.. I suppose she didn't stay a long time in this Mariinsky palace (which is a wonderful place)  

When a son is torn between the wife he loves, and the mother he adores, the best thing for all is distance.  I'm sure MF's love for Nicky outweighed her love for St. P and the parties.  I wouldn't be surprised if the move was the last thing she wanted, but imagine she was putting her family's needs before her own wants.

Alexa

[Annie]

I heard that was one reason that Yussoupov was not exiled to Kiev after the murders, they didn't want to feed the anti-Rasputin, and thus anti-Alexandra, faction a gathering point, with Marie already there.

[Robert_Hall]

I doubt that there were many St.P balls at this time. I can also see the excellent point: the Empress Dowager not wanting to put her grandchildren in the middle of a family feud.  She may have had her faults & frivolity, but she was a pretty decent gandmother I think.
Cheers,
Robert

[Louise]

Robert, good point about the balls in St P's. Wasn't the 1903 Costume Ball the last of the grand balls. I'm trying to think when else the family would have got together. The Tricentary, a few funerals, a couple of family functions.  I could be wrong, but the Dowager Empress was closer to her grandchildren by Xenia, and lived closer to them in Keiv.

Louise

[Robert_Hall]

I do think you are correct, Louise. Xenia was favoured a lot by the Dowager Empress. I do think also that she simply wanted to avoid the stress of putting the children in the middle of a fight between herself & Alexandra.  I am sure yhey had small visits. but no long stays.  As far as balls.. the Trecentary was it I think, for the whole era.After that, there were no more "seasons".
Robert