Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => Marie Feodorovna => Topic started by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on September 24, 2009, 07:49:40 PM

Title: Marie's wedding
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on September 24, 2009, 07:49:40 PM
Are there photos or paintings about Marie's wedding?
Or some interesting facts about it?
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on September 24, 2009, 07:51:14 PM
Can you talk about her engagement too?
Did she felt love for her husband Alexander III?
Or was it just only another political marriage?
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Ally Kumari on September 25, 2009, 03:08:14 AM
Svetabel posted these


Wedding of the Alexander III (1845-93), and Empress Maria Fedorovna (Princess Dagmar of Denmark) (1866, St Petersburg ):

(http://www.picatom.com/y/%201%20III-1-th.jpg) (http://www.picatom.com/y/%201%20III-1.html)

(http://www.picatom.com/y/%20%20III-1-th.jpg) (http://www.picatom.com/y/%20%20III-1.html)

Painting by M.Zichy (I scanned it in 2 parts as the image is very large)

Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: katmaxoz on September 26, 2009, 04:19:07 AM

Here's a full version of the same image of f the wedding of Maria Feodorovna and Alexander:

(http://i33.tinypic.com/mim74k.jpg)

Apparently Dagmar's parents, Christian IX and Queen Louise, did not attend Dagmar's wedding because they thought they would not be able to reciprocate the lavish celebrations of the Russian Imperial court.

Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on September 26, 2009, 03:32:18 PM
What beautiful one!! Marie F. looks very beautiful with her wedding gown ;-)
 Do you know if there is a photo or painting of her engagement??
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: katmaxoz on September 26, 2009, 06:52:48 PM
What beautiful one!! Marie F. looks very beautiful with her wedding gown ;-)
 Do you know if there is a photo or painting of her engagement??

I've never seen either..only this picture.  It looks like there were no photos of Nicholas & Alexandra's wedding either, though Tuxen did the lovely painting.  They don't seem to have started taking regular imperial wedding photos till late in the century. The earliest one I've seen if the of the wedding of Grand Duchess Constantine. Minnie's wedding dress would have been a formal cloth of silver court dress in this case.
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Ally Kumari on September 27, 2009, 03:29:00 AM
here is another drawing of the wedding day
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/2715932380102753164RlcwRN_ph.jpg)

there were also engagement postcards like this one :
(http://nd02.blog.cz/671/570/6a452c8b82_53606884_o2.jpg)
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Grand Duchess Jennifer on September 27, 2009, 07:23:36 PM
Did she felt love for her husband Alexander III?

Take a look at this thread: http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=2187.0;topicseen :)
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on September 28, 2009, 09:53:58 AM
Tha draws are soo nice, thanks for add the link I'll read it ;-)
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 01, 2009, 01:43:53 PM
Dagmar's wedding was the begining of her love affair with grandeur, she could never become little dagmar again.
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on October 01, 2009, 02:03:12 PM
Excuse me but, what does grandeur mean?
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Grand Duchess Jennifer on October 01, 2009, 03:14:44 PM
The quality or state of being grand: magnificence. :) http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/grandeur
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on October 02, 2009, 12:04:48 PM
The quality or state of being grand: magnificence. :) http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/grandeur

Thank you very much for the explanation ;-)
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Ally Kumari on October 06, 2009, 10:40:26 AM
(http://nd03.blog.cz/253/419/299bda73ca_54821718_o2.jpg)
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 06, 2009, 11:45:06 AM
Wonder which newspaper did the print came from ?
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on October 06, 2009, 12:55:23 PM
This draw looks more than a coronation ceremony than a wedding, but I like it very much ;-)
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Ally Kumari on October 06, 2009, 01:19:53 PM
It was a customn that two crowns were held above the couple´s heads, usually by younger relatives.
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on October 06, 2009, 01:23:03 PM
It was a customn that two crowns were held above the couple´s heads, usually by younger relatives.
Thank you very much for the fact Ally ;-)
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 06, 2009, 06:34:28 PM
Indeed ! In Russia all grooms and brides get crowns, but only royal ones get it in Greece.
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on October 07, 2009, 06:42:35 PM
Do you know if these crowns were...mmm... specially for that event or were common ones?
I suposse that they don't exist today
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Alexander1917 on October 08, 2009, 11:00:08 AM
I suppose those crowns are the property of the curch (in which the wedding take place), like in other faiths, f.e. crosses, spoons candle holder etc...
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on October 08, 2009, 02:20:07 PM
Ohh! I thought that the crowns belonged to the imperial couple, I've never imagined that they
were property of the church. Thanks!
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 10, 2009, 10:31:08 AM
Mostly likely they belong to the church, because they use crowns at every marriage in Russia.
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Grand Duchess Jennifer on October 10, 2009, 07:34:59 PM
Are you sure they used them for every marriage? I don't think they'd use them for the peasants, would they? ;)
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Svetabel on October 11, 2009, 12:03:40 AM
Are you sure they used them for every marriage? I don't think they'd use them for the peasants, would they? ;)

They use the crowns for EVERY couple and social status doesn't mean anything in this case.
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 11, 2009, 03:08:27 PM
Yes in Russia but not in Greece. The Othodox chuches has different laws in this case.
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: RealAnastasia on October 11, 2009, 11:23:42 PM
But I remember that when Prince Felipe de Borbón (actual King of Spain) married the Greek Princess Sophia, they performed a GReek Orthodox wedding and a Catholic one. When they married the Greek Orthodox way, they used crowns, like it could be seen at the pics of the time. ..I don't know. Not being Orthodox myself, I don't know very much about different Orthodox Churchs, Of course, I know there are many "National Orthodox Churches"  (Romanian, Bulgarian, Serbian etc...) But in the Greek case, I remember to have seen the crowns over the groom and the bride's head.

I think that the mean of this custom is that they consider the groom, the "king of the house" and the bride "the queen of the house", or something like this...But correct me if am I wrong.

RealAnastasia
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 12, 2009, 01:21:01 PM
Yes. But I said ONLY Royalty can be crowned in the Greek Wedding ceremony. Both Sophia & Juan Carlos (not Felipe) were royals. In an ordinary Greek wedding, no crowns were offered to the groom or bride.
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on October 12, 2009, 06:52:55 PM
They use the crowns for EVERY couple and social status doesn't mean anything in this case.
And do you know if this tradition still exists?
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Svetabel on October 13, 2009, 12:06:05 AM
They use the crowns for EVERY couple and social status doesn't mean anything in this case.
And do you know if this tradition still exists?

Of course still exists. I once was a crown-holder at my friends' wedding ceremony at a local cathedral.
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on October 13, 2009, 03:22:39 PM
Thanks for the information Svetabel, what nice custom!
I suposse that all Romanovs had this in their wedding ceremonies
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on October 13, 2009, 03:37:42 PM
Do you know if Marie's wedding gown still exists?
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Ally Kumari on October 13, 2009, 03:39:15 PM
I´d love to see it too.....


I found one more picture of the wedding

(http://nd03.blog.cz/029/467/173b911535_55122539_o2.jpg)
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on October 13, 2009, 06:45:20 PM
Ohh Ally!! This is very beautiful, here we can appreciate again the detail of the coronation
on the wedding ceremony... Thank you!!
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Alexander1917 on October 14, 2009, 04:10:14 PM
Ohh Ally!! This is very beautiful, here we can appreciate again the detail of the coronation
on the wedding ceremony... Thank you!!


This "coronation" is the WEDDING...from this moment they are husband and wife
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 14, 2009, 04:22:37 PM
Not the coronation as Emperor & Empress....
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Ally Kumari on October 14, 2009, 04:25:50 PM
Eric and Alexander - if you would read the whole post of Alzbeta, you would know she wrote "coronation on the wedding". She knows it´s not a coronation, just used an inadequate word.
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Alexander1917 on October 14, 2009, 04:31:40 PM
this confusion was solved some days ago.. what I mean is and this was the last post - during othodox wedding (russia) when the crowns are over the head of bride and groom , the priest will speak his prayer, and from this holy moment they are wed...
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on October 14, 2009, 06:45:17 PM
Yes, excuse me for make you to confuse, as Ally said I was talking about the coronation of their
wedding ceremony... No problem ;-)
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 14, 2009, 08:18:17 PM
The crowns are usually gold in royal ceremonies.
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on October 15, 2009, 12:40:59 PM
Aren't there images of the crowns? I'm sure that they look very beautiful
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: grandduchessella on October 16, 2009, 07:38:07 PM
Yes. But I said ONLY Royalty can be crowned in the Greek Wedding ceremony. Both Sophia & Juan Carlos (not Felipe) were royals. In an ordinary Greek wedding, no crowns were offered to the groom or bride.

A wedding traditions site says this:

On the day of the Greek wedding ceremony, the groom asks the bride's father for his daughter's hand in marriage. The groom's best man then accompanies the couple to the church, to be married. The best man, along with the priest, is in charge of the ceremony. He places gold crowns or wreathes made of orange blossoms on the heads of the bride and groom. These crowns or wreathes are linked by a silk ribbon. For the rest of their wedding day the newlyweds are honored as king and queen.

Another says this:

This is the focal point of the marriage ceremony. The crowns are signs of the glory and honor with which God crowns them during the sacrament. The wedding crowns (stefana) are joined by a ribbon which again symbolizes the unity of the couple and the presence of Christ who blesses and joins the couple and establishes them as the King and Queen of their home, which they will rule with wisdom, justice and integrity. The priest takes the two crowns and blesses The Bride and The Groom, in the name of the Father, and the Son, and of the Holy Spirit and then places the crowns on them. The Koumbaro then steps behind The Bride and The Groom and interchanges the crowns three times as a witness to the sealing of the union.

Here is an example:

(http://www.istok.net/images/P/si-101-wedding-crowns.jpg)

(https://www.nioras.com/images/6690-00_Wedding_Crowns.jpg)

(https://www.nioras.com/images/Wedding_Crowns_6690-50.jpg)
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Robert_Hall on October 16, 2009, 08:59:47 PM
Any Orthodox wedding  usually has crowns,  normally  church property and used by many couples, . Not of any great worth in themselves.
  Prince Felipe & his bride had a Catholic wedding, where this tradition is not used. Neither one was Orthodox, after all.
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: grandduchessella on October 16, 2009, 10:38:47 PM
Yes and non-royal Greek Orthodox couples can, and do, use crowns in their wedding ceremonies.
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: RealAnastasia on October 16, 2009, 10:51:55 PM
Yes. But I said ONLY Royalty can be crowned in the Greek Wedding ceremony. Both Sophia & Juan Carlos (not Felipe) were royals. In an ordinary Greek wedding, no crowns were offered to the groom or bride.

A wedding traditions site says this:

On the day of the Greek wedding ceremony, the groom asks the bride's father for his daughter's hand in marriage. The groom's best man then accompanies the couple to the church, to be married. The best man, along with the priest, is in charge of the ceremony. He places gold crowns or wreathes made of orange blossoms on the heads of the bride and groom. These crowns or wreathes are linked by a silk ribbon. For the rest of their wedding day the newlyweds are honored as king and queen.

Another says this:

This is the focal point of the marriage ceremony. The crowns are signs of the glory and honor with which God crowns them during the sacrament. The wedding crowns (stefana) are joined by a ribbon which again symbolizes the unity of the couple and the presence of Christ who blesses and joins the couple and establishes them as the King and Queen of their home, which they will rule with wisdom, justice and integrity. The priest takes the two crowns and blesses The Bride and The Groom, in the name of the Father, and the Son, and of the Holy Spirit and then places the crowns on them. The Koumbaro then steps behind The Bride and The Groom and interchanges the crowns three times as a witness to the sealing of the union.

Here is an example:

(http://www.istok.net/images/P/si-101-wedding-crowns.jpg)

(https://www.nioras.com/images/6690-00_Wedding_Crowns.jpg)

(https://www.nioras.com/images/Wedding_Crowns_6690-50.jpg)

Yes. THis is the point. I was stating that Orthodox Greek Weddings uses crowns...since one of my mother's best friends is GReek Orthodox and she married exactly the way you've depicted. THis insight are VERY useful.

RealAnastasia.
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: RealAnastasia on October 16, 2009, 10:55:19 PM
Sorry; my keyboard is too sensitive ;) and it typed capital leter everywhere... I wanted to modify my post but for a reason that only my PC know, I just couldn't. I wanted to say this:

"This is the point", "Greek Orthodox" and "This insight"...

RealAnastasia.
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 17, 2009, 04:01:28 PM
According to the Greek Orthodox Church, only royalty can be married with crowns. Maybe they relaxed that rule ?
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on October 17, 2009, 04:13:17 PM
Thank you very much for post the crowns!! They're very beautiful and elegant, the three models,
they look that they're made of a good material
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 18, 2009, 12:48:34 PM
Light enough to hold during the long Eastern Orthrodox ceremony that could last 3 hours...
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Clemence on December 27, 2009, 10:08:01 AM
According to the Greek Orthodox Church, only royalty can be married with crowns. Maybe they relaxed that rule ?

no, never seen any crown in a greek orthodox wedding ceremony, and I'm a Greek for the last 36 years )))
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on December 28, 2009, 01:55:52 PM
I would never imagine that Russian weddings can last three hours, I would like to know what
do they do in the ceremony ??
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 28, 2009, 01:57:36 PM
Bascially a mass plus the marriage ceremony. Quite a lot of chanting and singing too.
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on December 28, 2009, 02:07:17 PM
Well, thanks for the info... as I can see is mainly the common ceremony but with other
elements exclusive of the Russian culture
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 28, 2009, 02:11:33 PM
The Eastern Orthodox Church (which I am amember) is a very local church. They added their own elements apart from the formal litergy. This the Greek ceremony is different in some ways with the Russian or the Romanian.
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Nicolá De Valerón on December 28, 2009, 02:23:01 PM
I would never imagine that Russian weddings can last three hours, I would like to know what
do they do in the ceremony ??

Russian Wedding consists of official ceremony and informal celebratory dinner. All it usually lasts for two or more days, with Vodka, different delicious food, etc
However sometimes two days is not enough;))
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on December 28, 2009, 02:40:10 PM
Wonderful Nicola!!!!
I still don't believe that today a wedding can last two days :-O
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on December 28, 2009, 02:55:56 PM
i think that less in the western culture, perhaps in the eastern they still keep their customs.
and the weddings aren't the exception
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 28, 2009, 03:00:28 PM
An Orthodox Church Russian Wedding can be a very sumptious affair.
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on December 28, 2009, 03:06:01 PM
I would like to see the crown that Marie Feodorovna used in her wedding, but I don't know if it still exists
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 28, 2009, 03:08:20 PM
A copy of it is in the Kremlin.
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Nicolá De Valerón on December 28, 2009, 03:13:03 PM
Dear Eric and Kaiserin, you are posting so quickly and you are such a quick persons, that I can't follow the discussion and keep in mind of what you are talking about;))

Yes, it must be real in that cultures. Here isn't so common that a wedding can last more than a few
hours

Two hours are too little;))

I know, what I'm talking about;).
I've been on several Russian weddings and after all of them my head was terribly sick.

By the way, as I know, many other closer to Russian Cultures, like Slavic, Eastern European and Caucasus are celebrating their Weddings in the same key.
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on December 28, 2009, 03:16:02 PM
A copy of it is in the Kremlin.
i would like to see a photo of it one day.

Thanks for the info again Nicola... i would like to see a real russian wedding!! Although i know that you
must have a lot of patience
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Clemence on December 30, 2009, 03:10:52 PM
in the greek island of Karpathos traditional weddings cerimonies last three days ...
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on January 05, 2010, 02:25:47 PM
in the greek island of Karpathos traditional weddings cerimonies last three days ...

Still even longer, I can't imagine what do they do in that time
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Nicolá De Valerón on January 05, 2010, 03:53:12 PM
Good question. I think that they are doing during all these three days the same things, which are been doing in Russia and in another Slavic cultures. They are dancing, eating delicious food, drinking different beverages with the large degree, taking part in different contests, etc. All in all, they are having a very good time all these three days. Do not worry. :)
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 07, 2010, 12:40:09 PM
Indeed. Anyone notice the celebation and list of gift Minny recieved ? I think there was a list in the ILN...?
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on January 07, 2010, 01:02:37 PM
I would like to know how many things she received for her wedding, they must be very expensive
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: grandduchessella on January 07, 2010, 03:30:37 PM
After their wedding night, Alexander wrote in his diary "I took off my slippers and my silver embroidered robe and felt the body of my beloved next to mine... How I felt then, I do not wish to describe here. Afterwards we talked for a long time."
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on January 10, 2010, 01:11:45 PM
What lovely anecdote!!! Happily they could have a happy marriage, at difference of other couples
of the royalty ;-D
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Ally Kumari on January 10, 2010, 02:34:55 PM
After their wedding night, Alexander wrote in his diary "I took off my slippers and my silver embroidered robe and felt the body of my beloved next to mine... How I felt then, I do not wish to describe here. Afterwards we talked for a long time."

I would really like to read Alexander´s diaries, but I suppose they were only published in Russia (if they were at all). From the exceprts I´ve read he seems rather sensitive and it just seems he puts much more into the writing than for example his son did later.
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Svetabel on January 19, 2010, 02:19:48 AM
After their wedding night, Alexander wrote in his diary "I took off my slippers and my silver embroidered robe and felt the body of my beloved next to mine... How I felt then, I do not wish to describe here. Afterwards we talked for a long time."

I would really like to read Alexander´s diaries, but I suppose they were only published in Russia (if they were at all). From the exceprts I´ve read he seems rather sensitive and it just seems he puts much more into the writing than for example his son did later.

Diaries of Alexander III are published only as extracts in some Russian bios on him. The good amount of them one can find in Bokhanov's books on him and Maria Fedorovna. You are right that Alexander was much more interesting in his entries, his lines are not so short and dull as Nicholas II's.
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Ally Kumari on January 19, 2010, 02:21:46 AM
Alexander Bokhanov wrote a book about him and Maria? Another reason more to learn Russian....
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: katmaxoz on January 19, 2010, 05:12:41 AM
some engravings of Marie and Alexander's wedding on 28 October 1866

(http://inlinethumb29.webshots.com/43932/2895048230102753164S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2895048230102753164rfmGai)


(http://inlinethumb16.webshots.com/16079/2880389030102753164S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2880389030102753164BKtmSd)





Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Kalafrana on January 19, 2010, 05:39:09 AM
'I would really like to read Alexander´s diaries, but I suppose they were only published in Russia (if they were at all). From the exceprts I´ve read he seems rather sensitive and it just seems he puts much more into the writing than for example his son did later.'

My feeling is that because Alexander was such a big man physically, we tend to think of him as a bit of a clod. But there was more to him than that. for instance, he was very fond of music, and formed a brass ensemble in which he played himself.

It sounds as though he and Marie Feodorovna had a very happy marriage.

What was the uniform he was wearing at the wedding?

Ann
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 19, 2010, 05:52:53 PM
Alexander and Marie were indeed well matched. Both had common sense and shared a love of simple living (in Denmark & Finland) and music. Although it has to be said that Nicholas and Alexandra were well matched too. Both were romantic and dreamy but not firmly into reality.
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on January 20, 2010, 11:29:13 AM
It was soo good for them to have common interests and characters, they could have a more solid
relationship of marriage, a great difference with other couples of their time
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 20, 2010, 06:18:20 PM
Yes. Although Dagmar was suppose to marry Nixa (Alexander's elder brother).
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Kalafrana on January 21, 2010, 03:26:26 AM
'Although Dagmar was suppose to marry Nixa (Alexander's elder brother).'

But it seems as though they grew together and the marriage was a great success.

Ann
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 21, 2010, 09:18:41 AM
Yes. They "grew" towards each other. Alexander had to give up his former love to marry Dagmar. It was rare that such a loving partnership emerged. They were both very lucky.
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Kalafrana on January 21, 2010, 10:16:38 AM
Who was Alexander's former love? Did he have a mistress before the marriage?
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: kmerov on January 21, 2010, 11:04:16 AM
Who was Alexander's former love? Did he have a mistress before the marriage?

Yes, he had a mistress, Princess Maria Elimovna Meshcherskaya (1844-1868 ), daughter of Prince Elim Petrovich Meschersky who was Chamberlain of the Imperial Court. He ended the relationship just before going to Denmark to propose to Dagmar which wasn't easy for him.
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on January 21, 2010, 11:15:40 AM
Yes. Although Dagmar was suppose to marry Nixa (Alexander's elder brother).

I think that she had a better luck for getting a marriage with Alexander, I don't know if she would
be as happy as she would be with Nixa
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: grandduchessella on January 21, 2010, 09:53:20 PM
Who was Alexander's former love? Did he have a mistress before the marriage?

Yes, he had a mistress, Princess Maria Elimovna Meshcherskaya (1844-1868 ), daughter of Prince Elim Petrovich Meschersky who was Chamberlain of the Imperial Court. He ended the relationship just before going to Denmark to propose to Dagmar which wasn't easy for him.

I think there were quotes from diary entries or letters about this in perhaps the bio on Marie by Coryne Hall? I think that's where I read them or perhaps in Romanov Autumn. It was definitely not easy for him, like you say. His feelings were greatly engaged for the Princess.
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Svetabel on January 22, 2010, 12:59:04 AM
Who was Alexander's former love? Did he have a mistress before the marriage?

Yes, he had a mistress, Princess Maria Elimovna Meshcherskaya (1844-1868 ),

She wasn't a mistress actually,but a first love of Alexander. They only had one kiss according to Alexander's diary.
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Kalafrana on January 22, 2010, 03:35:38 AM
'She wasn't a mistress actually,but a first love of Alexander. They only had one kiss according to Alexander's diary.'

Thank you. I'm rather glad to hear that, as it would be thoroughly improper to keep an unmarried young princess as a mistress (though alexander's father did just that!)

Since Maria died at 24 what happened to her?

Ann
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: kmerov on January 22, 2010, 06:15:35 AM
Who was Alexander's former love? Did he have a mistress before the marriage?

Yes, he had a mistress, Princess Maria Elimovna Meshcherskaya (1844-1868 ),

She wasn't a mistress actually,but a first love of Alexander. They only had one kiss according to Alexander's diary.

Ok, I thought it was more physichal than that. In his diaries he mentioned several kisses and emotional scenes the day they parted.

A thread on Maria Meshcherskaya with pictures.
http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=1926.0
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 22, 2010, 11:24:22 AM
Wow several kisses. Which diary is correct then ? One or serveral kisses...It illustrates that Alexander was emotionally attached to her. But to his credit, it never became a problem for him and Dagmar, just like they both have the memory of Nixa as common.
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on January 22, 2010, 12:46:10 PM
Yes. Although Dagmar was suppose to marry Nixa (Alexander's elder brother).

I think that she had a better luck for getting a marriage with Alexander, I don't know if she would
be as happy as she would be with Nixa

When Nixa died, Dagmar was absolutely devastated and said "I lost my soulmate". So, according this, i think she would be very happy with him since they get along very well and consider each other "soulmates"
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: grandduchessella on January 22, 2010, 01:07:00 PM
Her son, Elim, was as mentioned on her thread, Russian Ambassador to the Greek court. A Demidov relation of Elim's would be Prince Paul of Yugoslavia, who would marry MF's great-niece Olga of Greece.

Sotheby's noted that Alexander & Marie had given Thyra a bracelet to commemorate their marriage. The bracelet, made by the St. Petersburg jeweller, Samuel Arndt, contained miniature photographs of the bride and groom.

 Arthur Saint-Léon, the ballet master, and Ludwig Minkus, the composer, presented the one-act ballet Le Poisson doré (The Golden Fish), which was staged at Peterhof in honor of the wedding. Based on the premiere dates listed, if true, then the Imperial Family and their guests saw it shortly before it's true premiere.

Here's what wikipedia says about the ballet:

Le Poisson doré (The Golden Fish) (a.k.a. Zolotaia Ribka) is a "fantastic ballet" in 4 acts/6 scenes with prologue and epilogue. The ballet was first presented (only Act I) by the Imperial Ballet on November 20/December 2 (Julian/Gregorian calendar dates), 1866, Imperial Bolshoi Kamenny Theatre in St. Petersburg, Russia. The complete work was then presented by the Imperial Ballet on October 8–20, 1867 at the Imperial Bolshoi Kamenny Theatre.The scenario of this ballet was derived from Alexander Pushkin's 1835 poem The Tale of the Fisherman and the Fish.


Another artistic tidbit: "Tchaikovsky received a prestigious commission for a work to mark the wedding of the Tsarevich Alexander with the Danish Princess Dagmar. In the resulting Festive Overture he used motifs from the Danish and Russian national anthems, finally letting the Danish anthem resound in all its glory, in a splendid Maestoso. Even in later life Tchaikovsky regarded this piece highly, preferring it to the much more popular ‘1812’ Overture. "
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 22, 2010, 01:20:13 PM
Yes. Dagmar was in love with Nixa. That is why some authors consider the time that the marriage of Dagmar & Alexander was done in "indecent haste". However the couple seem to bond very quickly, although it must become clear to Dagmar that she was getting an entirely different deal from Alexander than Nixa.
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on January 22, 2010, 01:38:30 PM
Plus, as far as i read, the couple recieved the blessing from Nixa Himself. I find it a bit disturbing but those were other times...
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Svetabel on January 23, 2010, 02:18:40 AM
Who was Alexander's former love? Did he have a mistress before the marriage?

Yes, he had a mistress, Princess Maria Elimovna Meshcherskaya (1844-1868 ),

She wasn't a mistress actually,but a first love of Alexander. They only had one kiss according to Alexander's diary.

Ok, I thought it was more physichal than that. In his diaries he mentioned several kisses and emotional scenes the day they parted.

A thread on Maria Meshcherskaya with pictures.
http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=1926.0

Yes, that emotional scene was the only one opportunity for them to kiss and express their feelings.
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Ena on January 23, 2010, 08:47:26 AM
Indeed. Anyone notice the celebation and list of gift Minny recieved ? I think there was a list in the ILN...?
I'd love to see this list.  Must've been quite impressive! :-)
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Ena on January 23, 2010, 08:52:21 AM
some engravings of Marie and Alexander's wedding on 28 October 1866

http://inlinethumb29.webshots.com/43932/2895048230102753164S600x600Q85.jpg (http://inlinethumb29.webshots.com/43932/2895048230102753164S600x600Q85.jpg)



This looks like the Armorial Hall, no?
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Ena on January 23, 2010, 08:56:08 AM
Alexander and Marie were indeed well matched. Both had common sense and shared a love of simple living (in Denmark & Finland) and music. Although it has to be said that Nicholas and Alexandra were well matched too. Both were romantic and dreamy but not firmly into reality.
They completed each other would be a good way to describe their marriage.  GD Olga used that word to describe their relationship in Vorres' book.  She mentioned that they had so little in common but couldn't have been happier.
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Ena on January 23, 2010, 10:01:18 AM
Oops! I meant they "complimented" each other.  (why no modify button in this thread?)
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Kalafrana on January 23, 2010, 10:41:37 AM
I think you mean 'complemented' each other.

Whatever, their marriage worked.

Ann
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 23, 2010, 03:01:45 PM
In short they respect each other. Minny's sister Alix was loved by her husband Bertie (Edward VII) but she did not have a good opinion of her mental capabilities. As a result, people tend to dismiss her as "feather brained", which is not true at all. Dagmar was of course even more sharper than her sister, but her husband did not dismiss her common sense advice either.
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on September 06, 2010, 02:25:09 PM
MF's menu at her wedding
(http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv226/KaiserinAlzbeta/Royals/mfw.jpg)
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on November 05, 2010, 03:39:32 PM
Illustration of Marie Feodorvna's wedding
(http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv226/KaiserinAlzbeta/Empresses/bodamarie.jpg)
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 07, 2010, 03:22:24 PM
ILN illustration I think.
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on November 25, 2010, 02:01:22 PM
Yes, you're right... I found the full verssion of it as part of the ILN
Click here (http://prints-4-u.com/store/images/N1221866/N1221866126.jpg)

A pair were already not available... I wonder if this was one of them...?
Click here (http://prints-4-u.com/store/images/N1221866/N1221866526T.jpg)
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 27, 2010, 08:40:47 AM
Very interesting. I got some of Minny's coronation but not of her wedding. The second one was based on a portrait that was done of the event.
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: QueenEna1887 on April 08, 2011, 04:08:32 PM
I've been searching every where but no sign of it.  Does anyone have a pic or is there such thing of a pic of MF's wedding gown?
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: katmaxoz on April 09, 2011, 08:09:17 AM
I've never seen one and I always keep an eye open for court dress pictures.  It would have been one of the cloth of silver court gowns though, which all the imperial brides got married in. As far as I'm aware Alexandra's doesn't seem to have survived either...

Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: historyfan on April 09, 2011, 07:23:46 PM
Were wedding gowns ever "passed down"?
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: katmaxoz on April 09, 2011, 08:55:43 PM
Were wedding gowns ever "passed down"?

Rarely.  However according to "the grand duchesses" Grand Duchess Kira in 1938 at her wedding to Louis Ferdinand of Prussia wore her grandmother Grand Duchess Marie Alexandrovna's dress.  It had originall been made for Marie's weeding in 1874 and had been kept in storage at Coburg for 80 years. No alterations of the dress was needed. 

(http://inlinethumb11.webshots.com/45706/2566924840102753164S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2566924840102753164XivYOP)

(http://inlinethumb28.webshots.com/46107/2244582910102753164S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2244582910102753164IhAxcx)


(wedding of Marie Alexandrovna  in 1874 below)

(http://inlinethumb22.webshots.com/23957/2887117290102753164S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2887117290102753164vdUhgM)

(http://inlinethumb09.webshots.com/45832/2130150570102753164S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2130150570102753164oUgSQR)


I also wonder if her sister Maria wore the same dress when she married in 1925, though it's not stated in the book.

(http://inlinethumb26.webshots.com/47001/2657013480102753164S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2657013480102753164nnNRoK)

However, I've never heard of one of the Empresses wedding dresses even surviving though the coronation dresses, made to the same basic pattern can still be seen it the Kremlin.  Marie's coronation dress is below:


(http://inlinethumb44.webshots.com/46443/2327550960102753164S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2327550960102753164ZtiEvy)


Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Svetabel on April 10, 2011, 03:37:22 AM
I've been searching every where but no sign of it.  Does anyone have a pic or is there such thing of a pic of MF's wedding gown?

It's really weird that you searched and not found. The 1t page of this thread have the pics of Maria's wedding. Also at the Imperial Family subforum there's a thread about Weddings of the Romanovs where I posted the picture of her wedding and you can see her wedding dress, not in all its splendour but anyway.

BTw, your question was for this thread and not for a new topic.
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: QueenEna1887 on April 23, 2011, 04:48:10 PM
I've saw those pics of her wedding but I was looking for one with just her wedding dress alone on display. If any exist and I looked in the Weddings of Romanov's forum and it was just pics of her wedding.
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on June 20, 2011, 01:01:04 PM
Not exactly a pic about the wedding but related to it.
Ball celebrated at Copenhagen to commemorate the wedding of Princess Dagmar, 1866
(http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt94/KaiserinCharlotte/AncientRoyalty/copenhagen.jpg)

A bit bigger here!! (http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt94/KaiserinCharlotte/AncientRoyalty/copenhagen.jpg)
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 21, 2011, 10:13:51 AM
I think Kira shared the wedding dress with her sister. Both dresses looked very similar. I read Marie's wedding was done in great haste so it could have been the same dress.
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on December 06, 2012, 03:08:29 PM
Found these on a Russian site (abbisinka's livejournal), both are labeled as Alexander and Marie's wedding:

(http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt94/KaiserinCharlotte/DarlingSissi/bodadagmar.jpg)
Click here for bigger!! (http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt94/KaiserinCharlotte/DarlingSissi/bodadagmar.jpg)

(http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt94/KaiserinCharlotte/DarlingSissi/bodaimperial.jpg)
Click here for bigger!! (http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt94/KaiserinCharlotte/DarlingSissi/bodaimperial.jpg)
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 06, 2012, 03:22:46 PM
Russian press etchings ?
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Svetabel on December 06, 2012, 10:44:56 PM
Found these on a Russian site (abbisinka's livejournal), both are labeled as Alexander and Marie's wedding:

(http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt94/KaiserinCharlotte/DarlingSissi/bodadagmar.jpg)
Click here for bigger!! (http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt94/KaiserinCharlotte/DarlingSissi/bodadagmar.jpg)


That one is definitely NOT Marie's wedding. She had been Orthodox (converted before wedding) so a Lutheran pastor is absolutely impossible person to rule the ceremony.
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 06, 2012, 11:43:20 PM
Maybe Miechen or Marva's wedding ?
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: IvanVII on December 07, 2012, 10:09:00 PM
Or perhaps a Danish press etching?
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: grandduchessella on December 07, 2012, 11:18:17 PM
This is the marriage of Marie and Alfred, Duke of Edinburgh. Probably where the confusion came in--'Marie Feodorovna' and 'Marie Alexandrovna'.
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 08, 2012, 09:53:30 AM
Thanks. That all make sense. Alfred did not become a member of the Russian Orthodox Church.
Title: Re: Marie's wedding
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on December 13, 2012, 12:28:07 PM
Thank you for the correction Svetabel! In fact I did not notice that a Lutheran pastor was the one leading the ceremony... I just believed to the caption. I think that this pic should be deleted... I don't know... I'm sorry!!