Alexander Palace Forum
Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => The Imperial Family => Topic started by: Grand_Duke_Alexei on November 14, 2004, 03:11:04 PM
-
I can never pronounce anything right, does anyone know how to pronounce the following words?
Mme
Alexandrovna
Pavlovna
Petrograd
Vyrubova
Feodorovna
Hesse
Hohenzollern
Ural Mountains (just Ural, I can pronounce mountains ::))
Dagmar
Constantine
Constantinovich
Kyril
Pavlovich
I'll probably add some more later. ;)
-
Mme - Mah - damn
Alexandrovna - Alek -san - drove - nah
Pavlovna - Pav - lov - nah
Petrograd - Pe - tro - grahd
Vyrubova - Veer - oo - bove - a
Feodorovna - Fee - oh - door - ov - nah
Hesse - Hess (rhymes with yes)
-
Hohenzollern - ho - hen - zoe - learn
Ural Mountains (just Ural, I can pronounce mountains ) Your - ahl
Dagmar - Dahl - mar
Constantine - con - stan - teen
Constantinovich = con - stand - tin - ovich
Kyril - keer - ill
Pavlovich - pav - lo -vich
-
I can never pronounce anything right, does anyone know how to pronounce the following words?
Hohenzollern
Ural Mountains (just Ural, I can pronounce mountains ::))
Dagmar
Constantine
Constantinovich
Kyril
Pavlovich
I'll probably add some more later. ;)
I'll do my best to make it clear (it's hard to spell out the phonetically):
Hohenzollern: hoe-en-zoll-urn
Dagmar: Dag-marr
Constantine: kon-stan-teen (I've also heard kon-stan-tine)
Constantinovich: kon-stan-tin-oh-vich
Kyril: keer-ill
Pavlovich: pav-low-vich
-
Alexandrovna Ah-lyek-sahn-drov-nah.
Pavlovna Pahv-lov-nah.
Petrograd Pyet-ro-grat.
Vyrubova Vi (like the i in bit)-roo-bova.
Feodorovna Fyo-dor-ov-nah.
Ural OO-rahl.
Constantine Kon-stahn-teen.
Constantinovich Kon-stahn-teen-o-veech.
Kyril Kee-reel
Pavlovich Pahv-lo-veech.
-
Mme= Madame
-
Mme= Madame
I know it's been a long time since I took HS French, but I thought "Mme" was mademoiselle.
Alexa
-
Mlle = Mademoiselle.
-
Mlle = Mademoiselle.
See, I knew there was a reason I got booted from French Honors my Junior year. ::) ;D
Alexa
-
Vyrubova - Veer - oo - bove - a
Hesse - Hess (rhymes with yes)
Thanks, I always see Anna V.'s name as 'vurbova' so I got the extra syllable now!
And Hess, all these years I thought it was Hessy. There was an old woman who lived near my Grandmother and her last name was Hesse and everyone called her Mrs. Hessy, and she never said it was wrong. Silly Americans!
-
Actually, in German, Hesse is pronounced "Hess'-uh" stress on first syllable.
-
I can never pronounce anything right, does anyone know how to pronounce the following words?
Mme
Alexandrovna
Pavlovna
Petrograd
Vyrubova
Feodorovna
Hesse
Hohenzollern
Ural Mountains (just Ural, I can pronounce mountains ::))
Dagmar
Constantine
Constantinovich
Kyril
Pavlovich
OK, it seems that I have a lot of work to do here. A major part of pronouncing a name correctly is to stress the right syllable which nobody has dealt with yet.
By the way Grand_Duke, do you want the English pronunciation or the Russian pronunciation?
Anyways, let's see:
Mme=ma-DAHM
Alexandrovna=a-lyek-SAHN-druv-nuh
Pavlovna=PAHV-lov-nuh
Petrograd=pyetr-uh-GRAHD
Vyrubova=VIY-roo-buh-vuh
Feodorovna=FYO-duh-ruv-nuh
Hesse=HES-suh like Mess sir(This is a German name)
Hohenzollern=HO-hun-tso-learn
Ural =You-rul (in English), oo-RAHL (in Russian)
Dagmar=(this one I am not 100% sure. I looked it up. Apparently in German it is pronounced dag-marr, and in Danish dow-mer. I don't know which syllable is stressed).
Constantine=CON-stun-teen (in English), kan-stan-TEEN (in Russian)
Constantinovich=kan-stan-TEEN-uh-vich
Kyril=kee-REEL
Pavlovich=PAHV-luh-vich
-
Johnny, thanks for your list. I've always thought the stresses in Russian one of the most difficult aspects of learning that language. (Only one syllable per word is stressed in Russian - unlike in English, where you have primary, secondary, even tertiary stresses - in Russian you just have to memorize each stress, although as you go along you discover certain recurring patterns, in verbs for example.) Anyway, great list, I'm sure it will be of tremendous help to all of us who are non-native speakers.
-
Thanks everyone for posting. It's always good to know the proper pronunciations for places, people and things :D - esp. for us who only speak one language that isn't Russian !
-
and BTW, the word is
proNUNciation
NOT proNOUNciation.
-
One word I always have problems with is 'Marchioness'. ???
-
Marsh-on-ness
-
I checked with my German friend. He says "Dagmar" in German is pronounced as I showed above with the stress on the first syllable. So it's pronounced something like "DAHG-mar". Hopefully someday I can check it with a Dane for the Danish pronunciation.
-
Thanks for posting everybody, I have found more words that I still cannot prononce.
Schleswig
Holstein
Sonderburg
Glucksburg
Copenhagen
Lili Dehn
Hellenes
Xenia
Bolshevik
Livadia
Efimovich
Militza
Montenegro
Michaelovich
Wulfert
Irina
Koulikovsky
Gilliard
Buxhoeveden (excuse me if I spelled it wrong)
Marlborough
Hvidore
Sergievich
Tanieff
Illinkskoe
-
Schleswig = Shless'vig
Holstein = hole'stine
Sonderburg - Sond-ur-burg
Glucksburg - Glooks-burg (oo as in brook)
Copenhagen - Cope-n-hah-gen
Lili Dehn - Lilly Den (like where the TV is)
Hellenes - huh-leans
Xenia - either is ok: Ksenya or Zenya
Bolshevik - Bowl-sheh-vick
Livadia - Liv-ah-dyah
Efimovich - Ye-fim-o-vich
Militza - Mih-leet-sah
Montenegro - Montah-nehgrow
Michaelovich - Mik-eye-low-vich
Wulfert - Vuhl-fuhrt
Irina - Eee-ree-nah
Koulikovsky - Cool-ih-kovski
Gilliard - Zhill -ee-yard
Buxhoeveden - Bucks-hoe-veh-dun
Marlborough - Marlboro like the cigarettes.
Hvidore - Vuh(as in just)-dear
Sergievich - Sehr-gay-vich
Tanieff - Tahn-ay-ev
Illinkskoe - Ill-in-skoyeh
-
Schleswig = Shless'vig
Holstein = hole'stine
Gilliard - Zhill -ee-yard
Of course in Germany it's pronounced Hol-shtahyn.
ForumAd, are you sure that the "d" in Gilliard is pronounced. I don't know much French but I would say it's pronounced "Zhill-ee-yahr".
-
the 'd' is pronounced, but very softly. It should not be a 'hard d' like dog.
-
Xenia Zina or the proper Russian, K-syen-yah.
Bolshevik BAL-she-veek.
Livadia Lee-VAH-dee-yah.
Efimovich Ye-FEEM-un-veech.
Michaelovich Mee-HEIL-uh-veech.
Irina Ee-REE-nah.
Koulikovsky Koo-lee-KOV-ski.
Marlborough Marl-bruh.
Sergievich Ser-GHEY-veech.
Tanieff TAHN-ye-yev.
Illinkskoe Eel-een-skuh-yeh.
-
Thanks everyone, this is one that I don't think that I have ever pronunced right. Faberge, I have always prounced it FAB-ERR-GEIR. Is that right?
-
Fab-er-zhay. Or the Russian, Fahb-yer-zhe.
-
Copenhagen in Danish sounds a bit like "Kurb'n-hey-in."
I've seen Buxhoeveden written as Bugsgevden, which I guess is the Russian version of the name. It would be pronounced "Boogz-gev-(hard g)-den".
-
How does one pronounce "Ai-Todor?" Sandro and Xenia's estate in the Crimea?
-
Aye-tah-door (as in the room divider)
-
Thank you. :)
-
Johnny you are right "Gilliard" is a French name and therefore the "d" in the end is not pronounced at all. The stress falls on the last syllable ; zhi lyar
-
If by "Tanieff" you mean Taneyev (Anna Vyrubova's family name) that is pronounced "ta-NYE-yef". You can trust me on that one. He is a world famous composer. I remember mispronouncing his name often until I was corrected by a Russian woman.
-
Sorry all, this is very sad...
I can never pronounce "Nicholaievna"
-
Nee- koh-la-yev-nah, or a bit faster: Nee-koh-lahv-nah.
-
Nee- koh-la-yev-nah, or a bit faster: Nee-koh-lahv-nah.
That's interesting. In my own studies of Ryccki yazik, and from my close Russian relatives, it is pronounced:
Nick-oh-LIVE-nah.
(that's LIVE as in: "LIVE from Radio City Music Hall..." ;) )
-
That's interesting. In my own studies of Ryccki yazik, and from my close Russian relatives, it is pronounced:
Nick-oh-LIVE-nah.
(that's LIVE as in: "LIVE from Radio City Music Hall..." ;) )
I am pretty sure that it is pronunced like this.
Nick-oh-ly-en-ah
-
I am pretty sure that it is pronunced like this.
Nick-oh-ly-en-ah
Then where does the v sound go?
-
OK, let's not fight over it.
It may sound like "Live from Broadway" when it's uttered quickly, but it is actually:
nee-ka-LAh-yev-na.
It will help to keep in mind that in Russian all non-stressed "O"s sound like "Ah" or "uh" depending on their position relative to the stressed syllable. A good example is the Russian word for good or well, "khorosho". The accent is on the last "o", so the first o sounds like uh and as it gets closer to the stressed syllable it sounds like ah and the last vowel is a clear oh. It sounds something like "khuh-rah-shoh".
-
I've seen Buxhoeveden written as Bugsgevden, which I guess is the Russian version of the name. It would be pronounced "Boogz-gev-(hard g)-den".
Georgiy's Russian pronunciation of Buxhoeveden sounds correct. But, since it's a German name the"oe" bit is really an o-umlaut (an o with two dotts on top) which sounds like the vowel in the second syllable of the french word mon-sieur (something like "yuo").
So in German it will sound like Books-hyov-den.
-
I just checked it on a website of German and Austrian nobility last names. Buxhoeveden's German spelling is BUXHÖWDEN (notice the missing e between W and D).
W in German is pronounced like a v.
-
I am pretty sure that it is pronunced like this.
Nick-oh-ly-en-ah
Just to be absolutely certain before I posted, I asked a Russian with the same patronymic. "Nick-oh-LIVE-nah"
-
When an "ah" and an "eh" sound are run together (as when spoken quickly), it sounds close to the English letter "I".
-
Georgiy,
You are absolutely right. It sounds like the long English "I". But it is important to distinguish that it is actually two different vowels "ay' and "ye". By the way, if you ask a Russian to spell a word or to pronounce a word syllabically and slowly, s/he will pronounce all the "o"s as oh. That's because that is the natural sound of the letter. But when the word is spoken normally then all the "o"s become a's and uh's. Just like our word "pronunciation". If a foreigner asked an American to pronounce it slowly s/he will probably hear something like prow-nun-si-ey-shun. But as we all know the normal American pronunciation of "pronunciation'" is more like prr-nun-si-yey-shun, without the o in the first syllable.
-
When an "ah" and an "eh" sound are run together (as when spoken quickly), it sounds close to the English letter "I".
Well, I can't see any reason to speak it slowly, so if it's being pronounced the way Russians *speak*, then it *sounds* like Nick-oh-LIVE-nah. And since pronunciation has to do with speech, how something is spoken is what counts in this case.
I mean, come on...look at the English word: "Worchestershire." If it were pronounced gramatically correct, based on the spelling, one would be the object of ridicule.
-
I think it would depend on who was speaking and why. After all, in different situations we adjust the way we speak - for example, if I were to meet the Queen I would speak differently than with say my work colleagues. I think if the GDs were being formally announced their names would have been pronounced carefully, but if someone was talking about them or addressing them informally the sounds would be glided together, which is the case in any language.
-
Just to be absolutely certain before I posted, I asked a Russian with the same patronymic. "Nick-oh-LIVE-nah"
Okay Dashkova, I am sorry for contradicting you without re-checking my resources. Your phonetics do seem like they are right.
-
Well Alexei, here's more to confuse us both! I just asked a couple other people (Russians, that is) who BOTH pronounced it "Nick-oh-LIE-yevnah"...much to the consternation of an actual "Nickolaievna" (who says she's LIVE-nah) in their presence!
Hmph!
Who knows?
-
That's what I'm saying - both are correct, it is just that one is said more carefully than the other. It's just a difference of ennunciation, and perhaps personal preferance as well. Some people really run sounds together - I've heard Ekaterinburg pronounced like "Ektinboorg." for example. Or the way lots of people pronounce my country New Zealand as New Znd, but if they were taking more care with their speech would say it more like new zelind. (But we never say noo ZEEEland.)
-
I've never heard that pronunciation of E'burg. The natives definitely say Yeck-ah-tyer-in- BOORG.
What I hate most of all is to hear it pronounced Eeeekat-a-REEN-berg....like chalk scraped on a blackboard and ignorantly inaccurate! >:(
-
I've never heard that pronunciation of E'burg. The natives definitely say Yeck-ah-tyer-in- BOORG.
What I hate most of all is to hear it pronounced Eeeekat-a-REEN-berg....like chalk scraped on a blackboard and ignorantly inaccurate! >:(
Lol Dashkova, screeeeeeeeeeeeeeech. :)
-
Or the way lots of people pronounce my country New Zealand as New Znd, but if they were taking more care with their speech would say it more like new zelind. (But we never say noo ZEEEland.)
I'm one of those Australians who says Nyooo Zeeeeeeeeland. ;D Feesh and cheeps as opposed to fush and chups.
-
I'm one of those Australians who says Nyooo Zeeeeeeeeland. ;D Feesh and cheeps as opposed to fush and chups.
LOL! I remember it well (Aussies -- PLEASE Americans it's with a Z not and S! -- and Kiwis).
I've heard many say: NZed for Noo Ziland (last word spoken rapidly) :)
Where are you guys from, anyway? I lived in Perth in OZ (Subiaco to be exact) and in NZ in Christchurch and Hamilton.
-
My papa is from Christchurch. I'm in the Southern suburbs.
*Olga sits and hopes no weird stalker people lurk around here* ;D
-
And I'm from Auckland.
-
Well, I can't see any reason to speak it slowly, so if it's being pronounced the way Russians *speak*, then it *sounds* like Nick-oh-LIVE-nah. And since pronunciation has to do with speech, how something is spoken is what counts in this case.
That poor word has five syllables not four. Besides, whatever the verdict on the "LIVE" bit, the fact still remains that the second syllable is not an "oh" but an "ah", unless spoken slowly which you yourself agree is not the normal way of pronouncing things.
By the way, if you heard my aunt say Tchaikovsky or Prokofieff you would certainly not recognize either. She pronounces them like chuh-KUOF-skyee and prrah-KOH-fyif. Needless to say she is one 100% made in Russia.
-
There is a good site with names in Russian and how to pronounce it. both in male and female pronounciations and nicknames.
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Track/7635/names.html
i hope it has not been posted already.
-
Like most Americans, I pronounce their last name as
"Romin-ov"
I've noticed that in most British documentaries, they pronounce it
"Ro mann off"
What's the correct way?
-
In Russian, it is pronounced: Roh-MAHN-off. Any other way, at least in Russian, is incorrect. It is also a *very* common surname of the nonroyal variety.
Oh, and Roh-MAHN-o-vah for the ladies ;)
-
Ok, gang, this might start some sort of monsterous debate (or rampant speculation that I'm a nincompoop), but I'd like to know -- just where do Russian speakers put the emphasis in "Romanov"?
Here in the states, I hear it mostly pronounced "ROmanov" with the emphasis on the first syllable. Myself, I tend to favor "roMANov" with the emphasis in the middle. Am I correct or just affected? ;) (My college Russian classes didn't cover this -- can you imagine? But I can ask for directions to the restroom like a pro!)
Sm
ps: come to think of it, why am I specifying the Russian pronunciation when we're discussing a bilingual family??
-
Roh-MAH-nov, I think. For the female members of the family, Roh-MAH-nov-a.
-
I have always wonder about the pronunciation of middle names.
-
That's a good question, and one I've asked myself many times ever since I watched "Russia: Land of the Tsars" on the History channel a while back, where they pronounced it ro-MAH-nov. I tend to want to pronounce it RO-manov, but the other way kind of just rolls off the tongue, so I might change the way I pronounce it. I'll be curious to see how it is in Russia.
-
According to the handy guide in the back of THE LAST DIARY OF TSARITSA ALEXANDRA, in Russian, the stress falls in the middle of the word:
roMANov
If there's any other name you're curious about, I'm happy to look it up -- they've got answers for anybody Alix mentioned in her diary beginning in January 1918.
FYI: the cook's name is pronounced khariTONov.
-
Well, then, I've pronounced it WRONG for the past 30+ years (and here I thought my Russian history professor was pronouncing it that way - the right way! - because he was from the New England area). ;D
Seriously, it took me until I started taking Russian history classes in college that I knew how to pronounce the majority of the names that I had been seeing/reading for years -
Pobedonostev - Poe - bed - oh - no - stev - and Witte - Vit - tah (the "w" is pronounced as a "V") - were the trickiest. Also, Stolypin - Stoll - ee - pin.
AND, I didn't realize I was pronouncing Rasputin's name wrong (you would think THAT wouldn't be a hard one). until I heard Robert Massie pronounce it. (I was pronouncing it "Ras - pew - tin")
The way I remember it now is to just think of Vladimir Putin (Poo - tin) and put the "Ras" in front of it.
E-
-
I've pronounced it wrong for nearly as many years, Elizabeth. So don't feel bad.
Thank goodness I got Rasputin correct. 8)
-
In many cases, the stress does fall in the middle of the word, but there are a number of exceptions, such as IvaNOV, GorbaCHEV (sounds like GorbaCHOV), PoPOV, YAkovlev, STOrozhev, etc. Another name that is commonly mispronounced is Anastasia’s. Not « A-na-STAY-zhya » (which drives me nuts!) but A-na-sta-SI-a (sound like A-nas-sta-SSY-ah). It takes a while to get used to say « AnasstaSSYah NikoLAevna RoMAnova », or « AlyekSANdra FYOdorovna RoMAnova », but it definitely sounds more Russian!
-
So how would Nickolaevitch be? on the "LA" also? :-/
-
I have to say that my ignorance will overcome me here and I think that "Ana-STAY-zha" and "RO-man-ov" sound better to me. ;D
-
So how would Nickolaevitch be? on the "LA" also? :-/
Nee-ko-lay-ee-vech I think, for Nikolaevich
-
Actually, I think it's Nick - oh - lie - oh - vich. For Nicholas, it would have been Alex - and - row - vich. :D
E-
-
"Neeko (soft on the long e) - lie - uh (very soft) - vich"
-
Thanx! :D
-
Yes, stress for Nikolaevich (or Nikolaevna) is on LA (Ni-ko-LA-ye-vich). I should add that, except on very formal occasions, many masculine patronimics tend to be abbreviated when spoken, with the “ev” (or “ov”) almost muted. Thus NikoLAevich usually sounds more like “NikoLA’yich”. It isn’t the case for the feminine patronimic though (Ni-ko-LA-ye-vna).
-
Hi! :) I come from Poland ( invite all to us :) ) and Polish language is similar to Russian, so it's rather easy for me :D to pronounce these words. And I must say, that they sound very tunefully and softly. :)
-
Hi! :) I come from Poland ( invite all to us :) ) and Polish language is similar to Russian, so it's rather easy for me :D to pronounce these words. And I must say, that they sound very tunefully and softly. :)
Dear Katja,
My very Russian grandmother always used to that the Polish language was the language of the Gods because it was so soft and pleasant.
Welcome.
With all of the best from Shanghai,
A.A.
-
Hi! :) I come from Poland ( invite all to us :) ) and Polish language is similar to Russian, so it's rather easy for me :D to pronounce these words. And I must say, that they sound very tunefully and softly. :)
Hi! :) I come from Poland ( invite all to us :) ) and Polish language is similar to Russian, so it's rather easy for me :D to pronounce these words. And I must say, that they sound very tunefully and softly. :)
Dear Katja,
My very Russian grandmother always used to that the Polish language was the language of the Gods because it was so soft and pleasant.
Welcome.
With all of the best from Shanghai,
A.A.
-
In the pronunciation of Russian patronymics I was once taught that the general rule was that the 'ov' was omitted when spoken so that Pavlovna was pronounced Pahlna
-
In the pronunciation of Russian patronymics I was once taught that the general rule was that the 'ov' was omitted when spoken so that Pavlovna was pronounced Pahlna
I for one would never pronounce Pavlovna "Pahlna". Hirakushka, Belochka, ...p----a, vashu mneniuyiu....(your thoughts here).
-
In the pronunciation of Russian patronymics I was once taught that the general rule was that the 'ov' was omitted when spoken so that Pavlovna was pronounced Pahlna
Oh no this is definitely incorrect! If one pronounces the patronymic as you claim then the verbal sounds become not only awkward but unrefined. Each letter is pronounced "as is."
My own patronymic is Petrovna ...
-
Dear Katja,
My very Russian grandmother always used to that the Polish language was the language of the Gods because it was so soft and pleasant.
Welcome.
With all of the best from Shanghai,
A.A.
Dear AlexP,
Your post gave me a great deal of pleasure, it was really, really nice... thank you. :)
But I believe that That Language must be the mixture of all languages and dialects from all over the world....don't you think?
Kind regards from katja :)
-
Dear AlexP,
Your post gave me a great deal of pleasure, it was really, really nice... thank you. :)
But I believe that That Language must be the mixture of all languages and dialects from all over the world....don't you think?
Kind regards from katja :)
Indeed, Katja, you are surely correct.
Welcome again to this Board.
With all of the best from Shanghai,
A.A.
-
I know they're not exactly Romanovs, but I've always wondered how you pronounced the names of Ferdinand and Marie of Roumania's two youngest children, Ileana and Mircea?
-
what is the right pronounciations for Tatiana and Anastasia - in the Anglo world it seems to be Tat-ee-ahna and Anne-as-stay-shah - i knew a daughter of a Russian immigrant - she was Tatiana and pronounced it Tat-ee-ahna.
-
These questions have been answered before, do a search of other threads.
-
Hi, Mechminx -- welcome to the forum!
There's been lots of talk on this subject from time to time. Here's some threads already in progress:
Pronunciation (http://hydrogen.pallasweb.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=family;action=display;num=1100466664;start=)
The Real Pronunciation of Tatiana's Name (http://hydrogen.pallasweb.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=tatiana;action=display;num=1118100829;start=3#3)
ROmanov or roMANov? (http://hydrogen.pallasweb.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=family;action=display;num=1117922258;start=14#14)
If you use the search icon at the top of the page, it'll help you find discussions you're interested in, and prevent lots of folks from getting annoyed. It's always better to add to an old topic instead of starting a new one. ;)
-
Actually, in German, Hesse is pronounced "Hess'-uh" stress on first syllable.
In German it's called Hessen with an N !
It sounds like Mhh..
Hessen: the two E's like the A in land and you can hear the N
-
I was wondering the correct pronounciation for:-
Serge / Sergei
Illinskoe
Also is Alexandra pronounced Al LEEkS andra?
Thanks very much
-
Where is the stressing in Alix?
I always say aLIX
But I have a name book which sys that it is AA-lix.
-
Sergei is pronounced a bit like "Sir gay"
Illinskoe: Ee leens coy yeh
Aleksandra: Ah lek sahn dra
-
What about?
Ioann
This one has me puzzled.
Holly
-
Yo-ahn. It's Russian for John.
-
I thought "Ivan" was Russian for John, at least that's what I've read.
-
They both are. Ioann is more old-fashioned, Orthodox style that's all, more or less straight from the Greek pronunciation. Ivan is a bit more 'Russified' if you like. For example, St John of Kronstadt is Svyaty Ioann Kronshtadskiy.
-
Is it true that the correct pronunciation of Anastasia's name isn't Anastasia, as is usual today but that it was Anastazia, like that?
-
My understanding is that in Russian, it's pronounced ah-nah-stah-SEE-yuh.
-
Is it true that the correct pronunciation of Anastasia's name isn't Anastasia, as is usual today but that it was Anastazia, like that?
It's not like Anastaisha (I hate this pronounciation of this beautiful name)
-
I thought that was wrong, although I have always pronounced it this way-I will try to pronounce it right. My sister always pronounced it this way, and so she is right. ;) ;)
-
I think the right pronounciations for Tatiana is: "Tat-ee-ahni." And I think Anastasia's pronounciation is: "An-a-stas-i."
-
No, the ending "ni" and "si" are not correct. The endings are "naa" and "siya". ;)
-
In russian, pronunciation changes according to the tonic accent : o can become a, e becomes i, ... The last vowel of a name or word is a little bit different if it's not emphasized, you almost can't hear it. So the last /a/ in Tatiana and Anastasia and in every name finished by /a/ is a mix between /i/ and /a/.
-
When I say "Tatiana" in Russian I hear "a" in the ending. When we begin declining a word, f.e name "Tatiana" of course you can hear "e", "oy", "i" and so on. I understand that our Russian language is quite difficult but when we speak "TatianA" we hear "a". :)
-
I understand that our Russian language is quite difficult but when we speak "TatianA" we hear "a". :)
Definitely!!!!
-
I think the right pronounciations for Tatiana is: "Tat-ee-ahni." And I think Anastasia's pronounciation is: "An-a-stas-i."
No, the 'i' ending puts the name in the genitive, I believe. ;)
-
Ritka is correct. Perhaps Lovy heard these pronunciations in a video where a Priest is commemorating them at a memorial service.
-
With the 'i' or 'ie' endings, those are more of a French variant, as European royals were fleuent in French, as it was the court language. This explains why many people who knew the IF and wrote about them called Anastasia "Anastasie".
As far as the Russian pronunciation, Svetabel ought to know, so you can trust what Svetabel has to say. But perhaps, being an English-speaker who is learning Russian, and the way things are pronounced, I might be able to help you...
Tatiana in Russian is pronounced more with the 'ti' being very short, if I am correct, and it would be "TA-ty'Ana" It's hard to write the sound, but hopefully you get what I mean. I don't know really how I ought to explain it...Anastasia has a more short sound on the 'si' and it's less of a 'z' sound I think. I may not be right with Anastasia's name, but I'm pretty sure on Tatiana's name.
Olga's name, if you're interested, is pronounced in Russian more like Ol-GA. The 'L' is very short, almost not even there, kind of like you're saying fast, and the G has a more pronounced sound.
Hope I was not incorrect in anything, and that I explained it well enough.
-
The 'l' in Olga is palatised making it soft. Think on the 'ny' in canyon and change it to an L and you'll come close to the correct sound. The 'Si' in Anastasia is stressed.
-
But perhaps, being an English-speaker who is learning Russian, and the way things are pronounced, I might be able to help you...
Tatiana in Russian is pronounced more with the 'ti' being very short, if I am correct, and it would be "TA-ty'Ana" It's hard to write the sound, but hopefully you get what I mean. I don't know really how I ought to explain it...Anastasia has a more short sound on the 'si' and it's less of a 'z' sound I think. I may not be right with Anastasia's name, but I'm pretty sure on Tatiana's name.
Hope I was not incorrect in anything, and that I explained it well enough.
Your explaining is quite correct. :) Do you learn Russian? How long?
-
Your explaining is quite correct. :) Do you learn Russian? How long?
Thank you. I tried my best ro explain the sounds, but it's not at all easy. I've only been learning Russian for the past year, and I'm not learning the easy way at all--I'm more or less teaching my self with translations and reading things online and in books. I have a couple books in Russian, and I learned most of the Russian alphabet by reading the Russian version of names, mostly the names of the IF. Basically I'm learning by my passion for the Russian language, which to me is the most beautiful language I've ever heard, though many people think that's strange that I think that, but it's true. I love languages anyway, and it's one of my passions... :D
-
Rebecca, you are really a tough person if you love Russian language! ;) I myself quite understand all the difficulties of my native language...that's why I love English! ;D
-
Rebecca, you are really a tough person if you love Russian language! ;) I myself quite understand all the difficulties of my native language...that's why I love English! ;D
Lol. Well, I'm strong enough in certain situations and that, but I don't consider myself tough at all...I am very petite, to say the least, and very 'lady-like' in my actions and my manner--more like a Victorian lady in that way. But there is something about your language which stirs something deep within me, every time I hear Russian...It moves so beautifully to me, and everyone thinks that's odd.
I've found it somewhat easy to learn for me, though language usually does come that way for me. But it's been especially easy for me to learn, despite the difficult way I am learning it. (I'll be getting a computer program eventually to learn it legitimately!) I think English is complicated, because the rules and all of that. Many people think English is harder to learn....Interesting you think of it as easier than Russian?
-
I don't think English is easier! :) In fact all languages are difficult. But I find English very interesting, simpler that Russian sometimes and complicated awfully when one begin mixing up all these Past Perfect, Past Perfect Cont., and so on!! ;D I mean tenses of course as in Russian we have only 3 tenses!... :) I am going to improve my Emglsih as I quite understand that I am far from perfect :(
And I wish you good luck in learning Russian :)
-
Thank you for the good luck! I know what you mean with everything with English--it can be quite confusing, although having it be my first language, naturally it's not like learning a second language...
And I think your English is very good--I wouldn't have known that you weren't a native speaker by your posts. They're very convincing!! ;)
-
And I think your English is very good--I wouldn't have known that you weren't a native speaker by your posts. They're very convincing!! ;)
Thank you! :)
-
You're welcome! :)
-
I know this was already answered, but I'm still confused over it. It seems I've been pronouncing "Livadia" wrong for three years! I want to say Live-uh-dee-a. Yet in a documentry I saw, it was pronounced, Liv-ahh-dia. It may have just been his accent, but I'm probably wrong. Exactly how is it pronounced? It seemed the previous answer could have gone both ways.
-
I know this was already answered, but I'm still confused over it. It seems I've been pronouncing "Livadia" wrong for three years! I want to say Live-uh-dee-a. Yet in a documentry I saw, it was pronounced, Liv-ahh-dia. It may have just been his accent, but I'm probably wrong. Exactly how is it pronounced? It seemed the previous answer could have gone both ways.
In Russian that sounds just as your second variant "Liv-ahh-dia". :)
-
Thanks! Everyone is a great help!
Demidova...
Demi-doe-va?
Or...
Demi-dah-va?
-
Thanks! Everyone is a great help!
Demidova...
Demi-doe-va?
Or...
Demi-dah-va?
"Deemi-dah-va" is correct.
-
I don't think English is easier! :) In fact all languages are difficult. But I find English very interesting, simpler that Russian sometimes and complicated awfully when one begin mixing up all these Past Perfect, Past Perfect Cont., and so on!! ;D I mean tenses of course as in Russian we have only 3 tenses!... :) I am going to improve my Emglsih as I quite understand that I am far from perfect :(
And I wish you good luck in learning Russian :)
Svetabel,
It's strange that most Russian speakers and all Russian textbooks say and believe that there are only 3 tenses in Russian. It is really not true.
Never forget the two big killers, that is the perfective and non-perfective aspects in Russian. They compensate for the relatively simple tense system of the Slavic languages. You may have only one past form for the two aspects, but the perfective put in the past becomes the English Past Perfect, and the non-perfective in the past becomes Past Perfect Cont. The same goes for the Future tenses. Russian also expresses conditional and subjunctive by using the partical "by". It even gets more complicated in imperative and so on. There is almost no tense or aspect nuances in other Indo-European language that cannot be expressed one way or the other in Russian.
I find the so called only 3-tense-simple-Slavic-language system a lot harder to manage than the supposedly complicated tense system in English, Italian, Spanish or German and so on...
By the way, of the above mentioned languages I like the Spanish tense system the best, since it seems to be the one which has kept best the tense nuances of the original Indo-European language.
-
Demi-dah-va?
why Demi-daH-va? why not just Demi-da-va??
anyway I have no problems because of being Russian. ;D
-
A little overdue perhaps, but
Dagmar is pronounced "Dowmar" in Danish, stressing the first syllable!
Dag-mar/Dach-mar is the German pronunciation.
As for Romanov: When I was in Russia, I heard it
pronounced as RoMAnov. However I'll probably
continue saying ROmanov like most non-Russians
seem to do!
Viv
-
viv rosendahl
OH! do non-russain speakers really say ROmanov?! it's sooo strange))
and thank you for the information about Dagmar. Ive been always interested in its spelling))
-
I know the Russian pronunciation of Alexei, but I was wondering what the most acceptable Anglicized pronunciation would be.
Ah-lex-eh(hard 'a' sound), perhaps?
Or Ah-lex-ee-eh(hard 'a' sound)?
-
I know the Russian pronunciation of Alexei, but I was wondering what the most acceptable Anglicized pronunciation would be.
Ah-lex-eh(hard 'a' sound), perhaps?
Or Ah-lex-ee-eh(hard 'a' sound)?
The most normal pronunciation is Alex+ay. Ah-lex-ey and Ah-lex-ee-ay sound too affected to me.
-
I know this isn't a Russian name, but could someone try to explain how to pronounce Paléologue?
-
I know this isn't a Russian name, but could someone try to explain how to pronounce Paléologue?
Just a stab, as I am not a French speaker, but I would pronounce it "pah-layo-logzh"
-
I think the end should be more like log (with a long o and the g like in garden)
-
I know they're not exactly Romanovs, but I've always wondered how you pronounced the names of Ferdinand and Marie of Roumania's two youngest children, Ileana and Mircea?
I've seen in the movie Vlad that Mircea is pronounced like "meer-cha"
-
I think the end should be more like log (with a long o and the g like in garden)
That's right! The end should sound like the ending of all similar English words like Prologue, dialogue, etc., which are all borrowed from French to begin with. The only difference would be the stress that, in the case of Paleologue, like all French words falls on the last syllable.
Pa-lay-o-LOG!
-
This was probably already asked before but...
How do you say ''Nikolaevna''? And what is the correct spelling, as I have seen it spelled a least five different ways?
Tatianochka. :)
-
"Nikoh-lie-ehvnah"
English spelling is not consistent. Nicholaievna or Nikolaievna are the two main "correct" spellings.
-
kokoschnik...How do you say this?
Bye and Thanks, Tatianochka. :)
-
KO-KO-SHNYIK (at least I say it like it....it´s kindy hard to explain pronunciation of ny.....
-
and just to make things a little more confusing, patronymics such as "Konstantinovich" are usually contracted and prounounced as" Konstantinich", eliiding the "ov".
However, if your butler is announcing a grand duke as he enters your drawing room, be careful that he enunciates all the syllables!
-
What is the proper pronunciation for Yussupov? I know that I am not saying it correctly.
-
You Sue Poff with the stress on Sue
-
You Sue Poff with the stress on Sue
Thanks, I knew I was saying it wrong.
-
this is my first post, and before i go further i would just like to say how wonderful a place this is...i'm an addict as i suppose most here are. thanks to everyone for all the hard work and hundreds of hours that go into making something like this a success.
my comment is awkward, but here goes -- since this thread is about correctness, wouldn't it be a good idea to spell it correctly? the word is not pronounciation but pronunciation.
sorry, it's been bugging me for months....
cpaciba
-
cpaciba
You might want to correct this one, then. :P
-
How do you say Mikhail, someone told me it was like this mee-ha-EEL, is that correct.
-
the "ha" iis usually transliterated as "kha", an aspirant somewhere between a "h" and a "k" in English pronunciation/
-
the "ha" iis usually transliterated as "kha", an aspirant somewhere between a "h" and a "k" in English pronunciation/
Thank you, I didn't think that it was 'ha'.
-
when i first read about the Romanov's back when i was 10, i misread Olga as ogla and that's how i called her until i read it properly and i used to pronounce Tatiana as tat-tina !
-
Is Tsarkoe Selo pronounced "Zar-ko Seelo"?
-
This has been discussed many times before. The proper Russian pronunciation is "Sars-kaya Syelo" But here is a very soft "t" sound with the first S, and the "kaya" "a" sounds are not hard like "ah" but soft, almost a cross between "a" and "o", and the "ye" in Syelo is very soft when properly pronounced, and the final "o" is also very soft, like the O in Oscar.. Its kind of hard for English speakers to get right unless they have heard a Russian pronounce it for them.
-
In nominative, it is Tsarskoe Selo, which speaks as Tsar-ko-yeh ; Se-loh. ;)
-
As I was reading this, I find Russian more difficult for me! I'm a filipino and I have an inversatile tongue. But it's only I who's inversatile.
-
I took Spanish and French and not for anything can I say Russian names. I can't even sound the things out.
-
How do you pronounce Chelyabinsk?
-
Chelyabinsk is city. Ch-eliya-binsk. I think all letters you can read in way they pronouncate. Sorry, I didn't help. :-[
-
Well, I can speak Russian (though I'm not perfect), so I don't find it hard to pronounce any of the names... though I'm not sure if I can write pronunciations like you write them in English...
-
Chelyabinsk is city. Ch-eliya-binsk. I think all letters you can read in way they pronouncate. Sorry, I didn't help. :-[
Chel- ya- Bingsk..That's how I read it (",).
Anyway, binsk is read as bingsk in english, right?
Thanks nena! I'm cleared out.
-
This troubles my tongue...
Dnepr and Dnepropetrovsk. Thanks in advance to whoever would help.
-
Dnyepr :) Dnyepropetrovsk.
-
Dnyepr :) Dnyepropetrovsk.
Thank you soo much, Ally!
-
Ortino?
It seems simple words can be pronounced so many ways!
-
Um um...
Does the pronunciation Ta-sha-na sound good?
I said this before on Tatiana's name thread and I was cleared-out her name is pronounced as Tat-ya-na.
I still call Tatiana Ta-sha-na. I really can't avoid it.
-
You may call her as you wish, but it´s not the correct pronunciation. Tatyana is the most precise description of how the name would sound. Maybe you could watch Romanovy - Ventsenosnaya semya - there you can hear all the names in Russian.
-
Agreed, Ally. Or watch Russian documenatries, you'll hear 'Tatyana'.
-
I even heard in one show a person pronounced Tatiana as tatyana.
Well, I must practice speaking it everyday so that I'll get accustomed.
-
How is Mathilde Kschessinska pronounced?
-
Um um...
Does the pronunciation Ta-sha-na sound good?
I said this before on Tatiana's name thread and I was cleared-out her name is pronounced as Tat-ya-na.
I still call Tatiana Ta-sha-na. I really can't avoid it.
Ingrid Alexie, I pronounce it wrong too. I say Tat-e-anna. I keep forgeting that it's really Tat-yana.
As for your latest post, I need help with that too. It's hard for me to say her last name.
-
I pronounce Mathilde as Mathil-de. I also think it's pronounced as ma-thild. The last name, no idea about that.
-
I pronounce Mathilde as Mat-il-ide. I don't think it's the right pronounciation, though.
-
Is Romanov in Russian really pronounced as Ro-manoff?
Where's the v sound? I found this here. I just need a clarification.
-
Is Romanov in Russian really pronounced as Ro-manoff?
Where's the v sound? I found this here. I just need a clarification.
"V" is like "F" there as the sound is breath consolant.
-
So, there's no "v" sound in Russian. Thanks for this, Svetabel.
-
So, there's no "v" sound in Russian.
Strange conclusion! "V" does exist in Russian, I just said that in the "Romanov" case "V" sounds like "F".
-
Ah...I haven't read pronunciations in Russian yet. Hmhm...Thanks again,Svetabel.
-
Here Sarushka has kindly posted the sounds of the Russian alphabet: http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=4952.msg121794#msg121794
And here is Russian handwriting to go with it: http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/handwritten.jpg
-
Thanks for these info, Jenifer.
= D
-
EDIT: I´m sorry, I accidentally posted in the wrong thread....
-
how do we delete posts now?
-
Only moderators can do that.... PLease :) ?
-
Everyone used to be able to delete posts. I kept looking and looking for the way.
-
How do you pronounce Tsarskoe Selo in russian? :)
-
Originally by Forum Admin, I'm just quoting him:
This has been discussed many times before. The proper Russian pronunciation is "Sars-kaya Syelo" But here is a very soft "t" sound with the first S, and the "kaya" "a" sounds are not hard like "ah" but soft, almost a cross between "a" and "o", and the "ye" in Syelo is very soft when properly pronounced, and the final "o" is also very soft, like the O in Oscar.. Its kind of hard for English speakers to get right unless they have heard a Russian pronounce it for them.
-
Thanks for the quote Tina. Cheesy Hihihihi
Yes.It's really difficult for to pronounce it. I really have to remember how letters in Russian are sounded whether accented or not.
-
Is it KSEN-ee-ya, or KSEN-ya?
-
There's already a thread on pronunciations. It's at the top of the page. :) Anyhow, Xenia is said as (according to the other thread)
- Ksenya
- Zenya
- Zina
- or K-syen-yah
I used to say it as X-ee-knee-a. I don't think that's right though. Gathering from what's stated above, I'd say it's something like K-syen-yah or Z-syen-yah. And that's probably closer to KSEN-ya. :) I could be wrong.
-
I also pronounce it as KSEN-ya. The only trouble for me is that K sound before that s.
I pronounce K lightly in that case.
-
To pronounce it Zenia is a pure nonsense. X in Russian and other languages is KS.
-
To pronounce it Zenia is a pure nonsense. X in Russian and other languages is KS.
The name transliterated as "Ksenia" is very hard for a non-Russian speaker to pronounce. The Russian grand Duchess and princess of this name would have been very accustomed to hear their name given as "Zennia" or "Zenie" (in the French style) throughout their lives. I have heard the former ("Zennia") from someone who knew Xenia Alexandrovna well in the later years of her life. It surprised me to hear it, but in those circumstances I would feel foolish in insisting on a more Russian inflection. To pronounce X as Z when a vowel follows is not uncommon in English and French - Xavier is another such name (also Xenon, though that one is hardly common!)
-
I understand that, however it makes it a different name...
-
It is pronounced as KSYEN-ya. I saw it in my copy of Russian names last night.
-
How do you pronounce
Uhlan?
Impyeratorskoye Velichestva?
-
I know the Russian pronunciation of Alexei, but I was wondering what the most acceptable Anglicized pronunciation would be.
Ah-lex-eh(hard 'a' sound), perhaps?
Or Ah-lex-ee-eh(hard 'a' sound)?
The most normal pronunciation is Alex+ay. Ah-lex-ey and Ah-lex-ee-ay sound too affected to me.
Came on here to ask this after finishing watching World War II: Behind Closed Doors. Two people were saying Alexei (talking about different individuals, but same spelling.) One said Ah-LEX-ee-ay and the other Ah-LEX-ee, both with the emphasis on the second syllable. Is different pronunciations of the same name correct? (For instance, Colin could be with a long or short o depending on the individual.) Which way would Alexei Romanov's name be pronounced? By the way, I never knew the Russian pronunciation of Anastasia until I saw the Unsolved Mysteries segment in which a Russian, a relative of one of the executioners, said it. Did Anna Anderson pronounce Anastasia correctly?
-
I think the best way how to figure this out is to watch some Rusian movie or documentary - Romanovy: Ventsenosnaya Semya for example - and listen to the name yourself...
-
How about Maria? Probably only two ways to pronounce that.
-
How about Maria? Probably only two ways to pronounce that.
Two? Is it not just Marr-e-ya ?
-
How about Maria? Probably only two ways to pronounce that.
Two? Is it not just Marr-e-ya ?
Properly, yes. The other pronunciation should be spelled "Mariah."
-
I think the best way how to figure this out is to watch some Rusian movie or documentary - Romanovy: Ventsenosnaya Semya for example - and listen to the name yourself...
Maybe someone can send a link to a YouTube video that actually mentions names. All those I could find in either English or Russian are just music videos, except for a British news report on the discovery of the remains which pronounces the name two different ways. I can't get the movie to play on Frozentears.org at all, even after downloading the recommended player and using Firefox as a browser.
-
How about Maria? Probably only two ways to pronounce that.
Two? Is it not just Marr-e-ya ?
Properly, yes. The other pronunciation should be spelled "Mariah."
You mean, like we pronounce Mariah Carey's first name? No, I don't think so - or, at least I believe nobody will pronounce it like that in Russian.
-
How about Maria? Probably only two ways to pronounce that.
Two? Is it not just Marr-e-ya ?
Properly, yes. The other pronunciation should be spelled "Mariah."
You mean, like we pronounce Mariah Carey's first name? No, I don't think so - or, at least I believe nobody will pronounce it like that in Russian.
Good, I feel better now we've got that settled, thanks.
-
Well, I haven't found a source with spoken Russian yet, but someone pointed out this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ep3-COpojP8 where the names are sung, as closely as I can make out (in order in song):
Nee-co-lai
Ah-lex-Sandra
Ah-lex-Syay
Mar-ee-ya
Olga
Tatyana
Ah-na-sta-see-ya
And, it is much easier to remember something if learned in song form!
-
I'm still not understanding how to pronounce Xenia. The "KS" is throwing me off.
-
Try to pronounce this name as - KZENYA. Thank God, I haven't got any problems to pronounce russian names, it's just almost the same in polish. ;-)
-
Take the last sound of the word "box" (i.e. the /x/ part) then add the 'eniya' part.
-
It's hard to pronounce 'x' on the beginning of a word (but not that one on the case of the word xylophone).
-
It's hard to pronounce 'x' on the beginning of a word (but not that one on the case of the word xylophone).
I still think it depends of your native tongue - I have no problems with it. : )
-
Or you can try pronouncing XE in the same way as you do in "AleXEi".
As a Czech, I also don´t have troubles with it.
-
Hello,
I was wondering if someone would be kind enough to assist me with the correct pronunciation of the name of the Russian Noble House of Chavchavdze? I thank you in advance for your time
-
Also, what is the proper pronunciation of the last name of the Prima Ballerina Assoluta, Mathilde Kschessinska? Thank you
-
How do you say Sigmaringen? As in Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen, I know how to say Hohenzollern as it was explained in earlier posts but I cannot say Sigmaringen correctly or rather I know I am not saying it correctly.
-
How do you say Sigmaringen? As in Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen, I know how to say Hohenzollern as it was explained in earlier posts but I cannot say Sigmaringen correctly or rather I know I am not saying it correctly.
In Russian Sigmaringen sounds like you rerad it, only the first sound is Z.
-
How do you say Sigmaringen? As in Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen, I know how to say Hohenzollern as it was explained in earlier posts but I cannot say Sigmaringen correctly or rather I know I am not saying it correctly.
In Russian Sigmaringen sounds like you rerad it, only the first sound is Z.
Thank you, I wasn't saying too badly then.
-
Also, what is the proper pronunciation of the last name of the Prima Ballerina Assoluta, Mathilde Kschessinska? Thank you
It was mentioned up above this post, to try and pronounce, Ks-chess-in-ska...She was actually of Polish origin.
HB
-
I have been pronouncing OTMA with a short O and a short A, but recently my Grandma pronounced it "oht-ma" and i'm wondering, since Olga is not pronounced with a short O, is OTMA pronounced "oht-ma"? or, going with the first letter sounds of OTMA's names, "oht-maa"? the last one sounds horrid, but is that how it is supposed to be prounoced? Or do you just say "O-T-M-A", not saying it as a word, but spelling it out?
Also, not conected with the Romanovs as far as I know, but Russian: how do you pronounce "Marya", the Russian form of Mary?
-
Olga IS pronounced with short O. So simple short OTMA is right.
And Maria is pronounced Mariya.
-
I don't see how Olga could be pronounced any other way than "Ohlgah"
And I did not mean Maria like Maria Nicholeivna, but "Marya", as in the character in Gloria Whelan's "Impossible Journey", which is the sequel to "Angel on the Square", a pretty much historically accurate novel about the daughter of one of Alexandra's ladies-in-waiting who makes friends with OTMA.
-
The best advice I can give you is: go and watch Romanovy - ventsenosnaya Semya. There you can hear all the names the way they are pronounced.
-
Uhlan is oo-lahn, with stress on the second syllable.
In Sigmaringen the final g will be hard, as there are no soft gs in German, but I'm not sure whether it is Sig-mar-ring-en or Sig-mar-ring-ghen.
Going somewhat off-topic, I once had a Chinese student whose surname was Ng, pronounced Ung.
And yes, in Britain we really do have a Marquess of Cholmondeley, pronounced Chumley.
Ann
-
What about Romanov is it Ro-ma-noff or Ro-man-noff (like it's said on the history channel) and if it's the 2nd one how would u pronounce the female variation with the v a (Romanova) Ro-man-noff-va? Just curious! I always say the first but on Romanov Documentaries (I've seen Russia land of the Tsars) they pronounce the 2nd way so...? thanks for the info by the way!
-
How do you say Sigmaringen? As in Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen, I know how to say Hohenzollern as it was explained in earlier posts but I cannot say Sigmaringen correctly or rather I know I am not saying it correctly.
I was intrigued too and heard from Südwestrundfunk that it's ['zɪgmaʁɪŋən], approximately SIG-mar-ing-en.
-
With all the imperfect explanations of the pronunciation of Tsarskoe Selo around, can we try to establish a valid one in IPA (International Phonetic Alphabet) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPA)?
My impression is that it's: ['tsarskaj sjel'o:]
Correct, or should some of the consonants be palatalyzed and shown with a [ʲ] (tiny j) next to it? All in the know, please update this attempt at a phonetic transcription.
-
I was reading about Grand Duke George Mikhailovich, and it said that he was known in the family as "Gogi". Any ideas how to pronounce this? Thanks
-
I would pronounce it "Goh-gee", but who knows?
-
I was reading about Grand Duke George Mikhailovich, and it said that he was known in the family as "Gogi". Any ideas how to pronounce this? Thanks
I would pronounce it "Goh-gee", but who knows?
In Danish and Norwegian, Goggen or Goggi are pet forms of Georg. With the name being the same in German, and Grand Duke George's mother being German-born, I would not be surprised if it was a German-based nickname. (Just as in English, diminutives of names often end in y/i in German, e.g. Rudi and Sisi.) If it's German-derived, the pronunciation would be /go:gi:/, with the g hard and presumably both vowels long (in Norwegian both vowels in Goggi are short).
Any help with the phonetic transcription of Tsarskoe Selo above?
-
In German, I guess it would sound something like - Zarskoh - Se loh. (In German - zar + ko and seloh). I am sorry, I hope I helped.
-
How do you pronounce 'Velikye Knyaz'?
How to pronounce OTMAA's names in my opinon:
Olga [ol-gah]
Tatiana [Tat-ee-ah-nah]
Maria [Marr-ee-yah]
Anastasia [Ann-as-taz-ee-yah]
Alexei [Alek-say]
Emily x
-
And I have always pronounced 'Nikolaevna' as [Nick-oll-eev-nah] is this wrong?
And once again, how is 'Velikye Knyaz' pronounced?
Emily x
-
And once again, how is 'Velikye Knyaz' pronounced?
The pronunciation of Velikiy Knyaz, Вели́кий князь, can be rendered approximately vel-EE-kiy knyahz, in English spelling. Velikiy is three syllables, knyaz is just one.
If you have a look in the preceeding pages of the thread you can find a lot of pronunciation guides to the names you mentioned.
Though, it would be absolutely great if a poster with knowledge of Russian would write the pronunciation of these words with phonetic symbols in IPA, so that we don't have to rely on the phonetically notoriously inaccurate English language and our own dialectical interpretations of its orthography. See my post above Tsarskoe Selo ( ['tsarskaj sjel'o:] ?) above.
-
In some places when I read about the Romanovs, for the females after their names it is spelled, Romanova, how do you say, Romanova ?
-
In some places when I read about the Romanovs, for the females after their names it is spelled, Romanova, how do you say, Romanova ?
[rʌˈmanəfə] or [rʌˈmanəvə]? Anyways stress on the second syllable, just as in the male form Romanov, [rʌˈmanəf].
-
In some places when I read about the Romanovs, for the females after their names it is spelled, Romanova, how do you say, Romanova ?
[rʌˈmanəvə]?
Yes, sound V, not F.
-
so that would be row-ma-no-va or ro-man-off with a v-a which ro-man-off-a (only the off is like ovv)? still can't seem to grasp it perhaps
-
Thanks, Svetabel.
so that would be row-ma-no-va or ro-man-off with a v-a which ro-man-off-a (only the off is like ovv)? still can't seem to grasp it perhaps
I urge you and all others to use the International Phonetic Alphabet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Phonetic_Alphabet) in order to escape the linguistic prison which the English sound system is.
-
Actually, in German, Hesse is pronounced "Hess'-uh" stress on first syllable.
In German it's called Hessen with an N !
But in Hessian it's Hesse, pronounced [ˈhɛsɛ] :-)
In Standard German it's of course [ˈhɛsən].
It's the same with another Grand Duchy: Bade in Alemannic and Baden in Standard German.
-
Out of curiosity, does anyone know how Dnieper is pronounced? Is the D silent?
-
Out of curiosity, does anyone know how Dnieper is pronounced? Is the D silent?
Yes, in the English pronunciation:
English Dnieper, pronounced /ˈniːpər/
Russian: Днепр, Dnepr, pronounced [dnʲɛpr]
Belarusian: Дняпро, Dniapro, pronounced [dnʲaˈpro]
Ukrainian: Днiпро, Dnipro, pronounced [dnʲiˈpro]
-
Thanks for the info :)
-
So I'm guessing we'd say it like "nepper" or "nipper"?
-
So I'm guessing we'd say it like "nepper" or "nipper"?
No, /ˈniːpər/ = Neeper. A colon after a vowel ([i:]) indicates a long vowel in phonetic script.
-
What about Gottorp? Short o? Long o?
Thanks!
-
What about Gottorp? Short o? Long o?
It's ['gɔtɔʁp]; so yes, short o.
Note that "Gottorp" is the native Low German and Danish form (used in most foreign languages), in standard High German it's "Gottorf".
And that contrary to what many English-speakers would presume, I guess, is the fact that the location of Gottorp Castle, the town of Schleswig / Sleswig / Slesvig, is pronounced with a long /e:/ in both High German, Low German and Danish.
-
I'm living near Schleswig and I also pronounce it "Gottorf" with a short o.
-
Coty, as in the perfumes, is it pronounced (K-ah-tt-ee) or (K-oh-tt-ee)?
-
I would say it's "K-oh-tt-ee" with a short "oh".
-
Thanks.
-
I'm living near Schleswig and I also pronounce it "Gottorf" with a short o.
Funny that you who live there say Gottorf, while all we foreigners say Gottorp!
In phonectic script Coty is [kɔti]. So the o is the same as in Gottorp.
In English, vowel length is very important, and syllabic stress is very distinctive in both English and Russian. French has very little of that, so both vowels and syllables are pronounced equally evenly.
-
And once again, how is 'Velikiy Knyaz' pronounced?
In phonetic script: [vʲɪˈlʲikʲij knjaz]
-
Leuchtenberg (semi-royal French-Bavarian-Russian ducal dynasty) really is a name with a lot of different pronunciations!
The original German prounciation is of course ['lɔɪ̯çtənbɛrk]. The Russians write it Лейхтенберг and thus pronounce it /leixtenberg/.
How do the French pronounce it? /lœʃtenberg/?
Today I heard yet another pronunciation. In a TV interview about the restored and re-opened Oscarshall Castle in Oslo, which was built by King Oscar I and Queen Josephine of Leuchtenberg, Queen Sonja pronounced her predecessor's "last name" as /'leiktenberg/!
-
I'm living near Schleswig and I also pronounce it "Gottorf" with a short o.
Funny that you who live there say Gottorf, while all we foreigners say Gottorp!
Maybe that's because in old German spelling "ph" was pronounced like "f". The official web page is also using "Gottorf": http://www.schloss-gottorf.de/ (there is a mistake: it should be "Schloss" not "Schloß").
-
Maybe that's because in old German spelling "ph" was pronounced like "f".
No. it's because of the historic sound change known as the High German Consonant Shift, by which a Low German /p/ is /(p)f/ in High German.
Compare Low German dorp and pund (and English thorp and pound!) with High German Dorf and Pfund.
-
I am curious, how do English-speakers pronounce Saxe-, as in Saxe-Coburg-Gotha? As in the original French, pluss a liaison, so that it becomes /sakse/?
-
I think it depends whether the English speaker has learned German or not.
Having done German, I say Sakser- (I hadn't appreciated it was actually French). However, the Marquis de Saxe, as a Frenchman, is Sax to my ears.
Ann
-
I think it depends whether the English speaker has learned German or not.
Having done German, I say Sakser- (I hadn't appreciated it was actually French). However, the Marquis de Saxe, as a Frenchman, is Sax to my ears.
It is French. As I am sure you know, it's Sachsen-Coburg-Gotha in German. Sachse (pronounced /'sakse/) means (a) "Saxon" in German.
Well, as long as one avoids Säxy-Cowburg-Gotcha.....:-)
-
Maybe that's because in old German spelling "ph" was pronounced like "f".
No. it's because of the historic sound change known as the High German Consonant Shift, by which a Low German /p/ is /(p)f/ in High German.
Compare Low German dorp and pund (and English thorp and pound!) with High German Dorf and Pfund.
Oh I see. ^^ The funny is, although I live in Northern Germany I can't speak Low German. ^^ I only know a few words. I'm surprised that the pronunciation "Gottorp" has its origins in Low German.
-
I'm reading Anna Kerenina and can't pronounce many of the names. Could someone help me with "shcherbatskaya"?
-
On the BBC Anna Karenina series (the best adaptation in my view), it was Sherbatskya (Sher- as in sherbet, sky as in sky).
Ann
-
For a good insight into the consonant cluster represented by the first letter of the name Щербацкая, see Wikipedia: Shch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shcha)
BTW this is the same consonant cluster that is problematic in the surname of French queen Maria Leszczyńska, discussed in this post. (http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=6481.msg439665#msg439665)
-
Wikipedia has a great phonetic transcritpion of Nicholas's full name in Russian: [ nʲ ɪ k ɐ ˈl a j ə lʲ ɪ k ˈs a n d r ə vʲ ɪ ʨ r ɐ ˈm a n ə f ]
Too bad there aren't phonetic transcriptions of AOTMAA's names.
Am I right in assuming that OTMA's patronymic is pronounced [ nʲ ɪ k ɐ ˈl a j ə v n ə ]? Or should some part of the -evna also be palatalized?
Speaking of palatalisation, it hadn't dawned on me untill now that the last sound in "tsar", царь, is actually pronounced palatalized, as [ ts a rʲ ]. But that is of course why the soft sign, ь, is there!
-
Am I right in assuming that OTMA's patronymic is pronounced [ nʲ ɪ k ɐ ˈl a j ə v n ə ]? Or should some part of the -evna also be palatalized?
The most correct pronunciation - according to what I have heard in TV documentaries and movies on them.
Speaking of palatalisation, it hadn't dawned on me untill now that the last sound in "tsar", царь, is actually pronounced palatalized, as [ ts a rʲ ]. But that is of course why the soft sign, ь, is there!
Exactly! It is soft letter that makes word sounding soft and not so loud. It is mixed with other letter while saying the word.
-
I am curious, how do English-speakers pronounce Saxe-, as in Saxe-Coburg-Gotha? As in the original French, pluss a liaison, so that it becomes /sakse/?
I think it depends whether the English speaker has learned German or not.
Having done German, I say Sakser- (I hadn't appreciated it was actually French). However, the Marquis de Saxe, as a Frenchman, is Sax to my ears.
It is French. As I am sure you know, it's Sachsen-Coburg-Gotha in German. Sachse (pronounced /'sakse/) means (a) "Saxon" in German.
Well, as long as one avoids Säxy-Cowburg-Gotcha.....:-)
I now have it on good authority from a native French speaker that a liaison can only link a consonant to a vowel and not the other way around, and that Saxe-Cobourg-Gotha is pronounced /saks.ko.bur.go.ta/ in French. (Only in Marseillais-accented French would one read it /sak.se.co.bur.go.ta/.) And that in (Upper) Saxon, Sachsen is Sachs'n with the final n retained. (N-dropping in final -en turns out to be a very Rhenian phenomena, from Bade_ via Hesse_ to Vlaandere_!)
So I don't understand where some of the English-speaking commentators in royalty documentaries get their pronunciatioon from? Perhaps Dutch!? :-)
Does anybody know how the royals themselves pronounce(d) it?
I'm surprised that the pronunciation "Gottorp" has its origins in Low German.
Unless they are Slavic, Danish or Frisian, all place-names in Northern Germany have their origin in Saxon / Low German! That's why your state capital is called Kiel and not Keil! :-)
-
[/quote]
I now have it on good authority from a native French speaker that a liaison can only link a consonant to a vowel and not the other way around, and that Saxe-Cobourg-Gotha is pronounced /saks.ko.bur.go.ta/ in French. (Only in Marseillais-accented French would one read it /sak.se.co.bur.go.ta/.) And that in (Upper) Saxon, Sachsen is Sachs'n with the final n retained. (N-dropping in final -en turns out to be a very Rhenian phenomena, from Bade_ via Hesse_ to Vlaandere_!)
So I don't understand where some of the English-speaking commentators in royalty documentaries get their pronunciatioon from? Perhaps Dutch!? :-)
Does anybody know how the royals themselves pronounce(d) it?
[/quote]
It sound like you have the right pronunciation covered well, FP. If there is a Belgian or someone that still speaks high German on here, may be they would give a bit more detail.
The English speaking commentators are going to use the appropriate English translation of the names, noting a British historian - pronouncing every vowel, etc.
-
Never mind Scherbatskaya! How do you pronounce Karenina? And is it [Obb-lonn-skee] or [Obb-lonn-skI]?
Emily x
-
The English speaking commentators are going to use the appropriate English translation of the names, noting a British historian - pronouncing every vowel, etc.
Your statement makes no sense, as the English translation of Sachsen is Saxony and pronouncing the final e in Saxe is faux French.
Never mind Scherbatskaya! How do you pronounce Karenina? And is it [Obb-lonn-skee] or [Obb-lonn-skI]?
Emily x
Karenina:
Russian pronunciation: [kɐˈrʲenʲɪnə]
English pronunciation: [kəˈrɛnənə]
Thus stress on the second syllable in both cases.
Oblonskiy:
I presume it's pronounced something like /abl'onskʲɪ:/
-
The English speaking commentators are going to use the appropriate English translation of the names, noting a British historian - pronouncing every vowel, etc.
Your statement makes no sense, as the English translation of Sachsen is Saxony and pronouncing the final e in Saxe is faux French.
[\quote]
I do not see your point, FP. English is English, German is German, and French is French. The vocabulary, letters of the alphabet, and pronunciation of those letters are different with respect to each language spoken.
An example of English being spoken, may be with the word "aunt". In America, people prononce it as, "Ant". In England, "Aunt". Both countries speak English. England pronounces every vowel, Americans do not.
There is only one way to pronounce "Saxony" in English, however, there are many words in the English language that have more than one pronunciation.
-
Could anyone please tell me the pronunciation of "lapis lazuli". Does is sound like ... Lapees La-zoo-lie, or Lapees La-zoo-lee? Thank you.
-
I do not see your point, FP. English is English, German is German, and French is French. The vocabulary, letters of the alphabet, and pronunciation of those letters are different with respect to each language spoken
(.....)
There is only one way to pronounce "Saxony" in English
Yes, but there are two ways to say Sachsen in English: Saxony (from Latin Saxonia) and Saxe (from French, with a usage restricted the Thuringian Duchies). The pronunciation of Saxe as in Saxe-Coburg-Gotha was the issue that was debated.
An example of English being spoken, may be with the word "aunt". In America, people prononce it as, "Ant". In England, "Aunt". Both countries speak English. England pronounces every vowel, Americans do not.
The word is written with two vowels, but neither the English nor the Americans pronounce two vowels or a diphtong. In most English dialects it's [ɑ:nt], in American English it's [ænt]. In both cases it's pronounced with a single vowel, a monophtong, that has equally little to do with whatever the spelling au represented in the Anglo-Norman the word and its spelling were borrowed from.
In short, a confusing example, as the relationship between spelling and pronunciation of vowels in English is very f***ed-up, to say it bluntly, like the example underneath shows:
Could anyone please tell me the pronunciation of "lapis lazuli". Does is sound like ... Lapees La-zoo-lie, or Lapees La-zoo-lee? Thank you.
Both forms are current: /ˈlæpɪs ˈlæzjʉlaɪ/ or /ˈlæzjʉli/.
-
I now have it on good authority from a native French speaker that a liaison can only link a consonant to a vowel and not the other way around, and that Saxe-Cobourg-Gotha is pronounced /saks.ko.bur.go.ta/ in French.
On the other hand French tends to try to avoid three-consonant cluster like /saks.ko.bur.go.ta/.
-
Hi everyone, just a quick question.
Ever since I've come interested in the Romanovs, I've been saying the Grand Duchesses' middle name NICK-OH-LAY-VEE-NEE-YA, but when said quickly it comes out NICK OH LAY VEE NYA
Anyway, I've recently read a post saying that it's actually pronounced "NICK OH LIE EV NAH
Is this true?
-
Yes, AN. Nick-oh-lie-ev-nah is correct, at least I've hear like that so many times. In "Romanovy: A Crowned Family", they pronounce like this, and I took it as correct :)
-
Thank you! I think the "ae" from the Greek spelling confused me a bit!
-
While we're here, how is Tsarskoe Selo pronounced?
-
I've always pronounced it Sar-co Seal-o... I could be wrong though!
-
I always pronounced the same way. I wonder if that's the right way.
-
Me too! I guess it's right...
-
Yes, AN. Nick-oh-lie-ev-nah is correct, at least I've hear like that so many times. In "Romanovy: A Crowned Family", they pronounce like this, and I took it as correct :)
Nick-oh-lie-yev-nah
Soften that second "e" by using the letter "y" before it.
-
Thank you.
-
I've never been sure of how to pronunciate these two nicknames:
Shvibzik
Alyoshka
-
I've never been sure of how to pronunciate these two nicknames:
Shvibzik
Alyoshka
Not sure myself on the first though i've always said Sh-ivz-bick and i could be wrong. i think the other is Al-yo-sh-ka once again could be wrong!
-
I heard the first pronounced in a movie once. "Oh, my poor little Shvybzik!" and he said it like [Shvih-bzikk]
Emily x
-
Maybe "Shvybzik" has its origins in the German word "beschwipst" [beshvipst] which means "jolly" or "tipsy" in English. :-) But I'm not sure.
-
While we're here, how is Tsarskoe Selo pronounced?
I've always pronounced it Sar-co Seal-o... I could be wrong though!
It's more like ['tsarskaj sʲɪel'o:], ['tsa:rskaə sʲɪe'lo:] or ['ʦarskɐje sʲɪ'ɫɔ].
-
Wow, it's never so bad that there isn't something good to derive from it: In tonight's news segment about Russia's nightmarish project of building a floating nuclear power plant and towing it to the Arctic Sea off Siberia, I did learn that the stretch of water where it was launched, Невa / the Neva, is pronounced /nʲe'va/ with stress on the second syllable!
-
I apologize if this has been asked before how to say Yusupova. I was in the forum, in the Yusupov topic, and reading about Princess Tatiana Alexandrovna Yusupova. I cannot say Yusupova properly. Is it just Yusupov with an 'a' sound at the end?
-
I apologize if this has been asked before how to say Yusupova. I was in the forum, in the Yusupov topic, and reading about Princess Tatiana Alexandrovna Yusupova. I cannot say Yusupova properly. Is it just Yusupov with an 'a' sound at the end?
I think it's [ju 'su pɐ və], so stress on the second syllable.
-
I apologize if this has been asked before how to say Yusupova. I was in the forum, in the Yusupov topic, and reading about Princess Tatiana Alexandrovna Yusupova. I cannot say Yusupova properly. Is it just Yusupov with an 'a' sound at the end?
I think it's [ju 'su pɐ və], so stress on the second syllable.
Thank you.
-
In the German Duden dictionary of pronunciation I finally found the correct Russian pronunciation of Tsarskoe Selo confirmed: ['ʦarskɐjɐ sʲɪ'lɔ]. In English orthography it would be something like /TSARskuyuh seeLAW/.
-
Originally by Forum Admin, I'm just quoting him:
This has been discussed many times before. The proper Russian pronunciation is "Sars-kaya Syelo" But here is a very soft "t" sound with the first S, and the "kaya" "a" sounds are not hard like "ah" but soft, almost a cross between "a" and "o", and the "ye" in Syelo is very soft when properly pronounced, and the final "o" is also very soft, like the O in Oscar.. Its kind of hard for English speakers to get right unless they have heard a Russian pronounce it for them.
-
Originally by Forum Admin, I'm just quoting him:
This has been discussed many times before. The proper Russian pronunciation is "Sars-kaya Syelo"...[..]
Tina Pavlovna, such a roundabout explanation can perhaps elucidate the pronunciation in IPA I gave above, but it says nothing about stress (so vital in Russian) and is no real substitute for a proper rendering in IPA.
-
Sometimes I wish there were audio files saying things correctly...I know I have been mispronouncing names for 40 years plus!
As Фёдор Петрович says, where the stress is vital etc.
-
I realize this does not really have anything to do with the Imperial Family directly, but I am wondering how to pronounce the name of the society conversation excersise Queen Victoria did with Alix when she was a young girl and teen, the cercle. Also, something else that is not directly related: Margarethe von Fabrice, Alix's lady-in-waiting. If anyone could clear this up for me I'd appreciate it greatly!
-
I think the "cercle" is just pronounced like the ordinary "circle" :)
As for Princess Alix's companion:
unlike the English name Margaret (Mar-gret) in the German version you pronounce the second "a" as well. The last three letters are not pronounced like the English "the" but like the first two letters of "TExt" : Mar - ga (british "a" like in MARgret - not the american one) - re (sharp "e" like the first "e" in "Ethel") - te ("TExt").
The "v" in von is like the "f" in fall
Fa (british "a") -bree-ce ("ce" like "s" - but a sharp s like in Sam)
-
Thank you so much! I appreciate the detailed instructions a lot!
Another German surname I was wondering how to pronouce correctly is Rademacher, and also von Blumenthal. Though of course now I do know how to say von!
-
Cercle is French for circle. It is pronounced "Sehr-cluh"
-
Thank you so much! I appreciate the detailed instructions a lot!
Another German surname I was wondering how to pronouce correctly is Rademacher, and also von Blumenthal. Though of course now I do know how to say von!
Rademacher: well the "ch" is hard to explain - there are two ways to pronounce "ch" in German - the smooth and the hard sound. The latter is the one u need here. sounds very much as if someone is choking :) u can listen to it via this translation program if u click on the little loudspeaker button next to "machen" http://www.dict.cc/?s=machen
Ra (british "a") de (sharp like in DEborah) ma (brit.) ch er
Blumenthal: Blu (like the English "blue") men (like "MENtal") thal (like "tall")
-
Many thanks to both of you... :)
-
Another pronounciation question...regarding how Irene of Hesse's husband's name, Heinrich, was pronounced by the family, and also Victoria Hesse's husband, Louis. Would it have been Louie or Louis? Thank you!
-
"Heyenrish" (with eye like in English, long I) and Louis, not Louie.
-
Another pronounciation question...regarding how Irene of Hesse's husband's name, Heinrich, was pronounced by the family, and also Victoria Hesse's husband, Louis. Would it have been Louie or Louis? Thank you!
The easiest way: listen to this link at 0:10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5N_0ogbImKQ
the German "ch" cannot be explained I think... ;)
-
I would be surprised if Louis of Battenberg were not Louie. Remember, they were all educated people.
His son, Lord Mountbatten, was frequently called Lord Louis, pronounced Louie. I knew someone (now dead), who worked with him from the 1940s and who always referred to him as Lord Louie.
Ann
-
Also, Prince William is William Arthur Philip Louis.
Anyone who heard the wedding ceremony heard that Louis was pronounced Louie. (I know that Louis Mountbatten was Charles's favorite uncle and I think William was named for him as well as his grandfather and there is the ubiquitous Arthur. Maybe named after one of Queen Victoria's sons.)
-
The Prince Arthur, Duke of Connaught and Strathearn; her 7th child.
-
Of course. I wonder if the name Arthur had any mystical connotations with King Arthur?
-
As I understand it, the Duke of Connaught was named after the Duke of Wellington, who was his godfather.
The Prince of Wales is Charles Philip Arthur George, and George VI was Albert Frederick Arthur George.
Ann
-
Yep, that is what I meant. The ubiqutous "Arthur". The name shows up everywhere.
-
I wonder whether the Duke of Connaught was one of George VI's godfathers.
I imagine the Queen was thinking of her father when she included Arthur George in Charles's baptismal names. Incidentally, Charles uses Arthur George Carrick as his painting name (Earl of Carrick is one of his titles).
Ann
-
If you're looking to learn the accurate pronunciations, then I highly recommend watching the film Romanovy It was there that I learnt that 'Romanov' was actually said 'Ro-MAN-ov' - the stress being in the middle instead of RO-man-ov. The Russian language has a lot to do with stressing the right syllables, and Ro-MAN-ov sounds a lot more Russian than RO-man-ov.
There is one place that I really struggle to say and that is Tsarskoe Selo. How is that pronounced?
Also, wouldn't Maria's name have been said as MAH-ri-a instead of MER-i-a?
-
I believe "Maria" is "Mah-REE-ya".
-
RomaFan96- For pronunciation of Tsarskoe Selo, see FA's post #143 for detailed explanation. It would probably be very helpful for you to read through this entire thread. We all have trouble pronouncing a lot of the Russian words and most of them have already been discussed here.
-
When I first learned the Romanov was pronounced Ro MAN ov. I thought it sounded Italian. I don't know why but a lot of Italian names are pronounced with the accent on the second syllable like Bal DUC ci (Bal DUT chi)
However since then I have found that most three syllable Russian surnames are accented on the second syllable. It is especially annoying during the Olympic Games to hear the announcers pronouncing the names of the Russian athletes incorrectly. It has gotten better in recent years. But the ones that defeat most announcers are the female version of the male surname.
Romanova is still Ro MAN ova not Ro man OVA. It takes a while for the English speaking brain to adjust to that kind of speech, but now I find myself doing it even to names that aren't Russian. Then I have to shake my clouded head and get it right.
-
I still mispronounce Maria Sharapova's name. : P
-
I have noticed that some Russian athletes have either changed the pronunciation or just stopped trying to get the announcers to get it right.
I think I have heard Sharapova pronounced Shar a POVA. I would have gone with Shar AP ova.
When I have trouble, I think of the male version - in this instance it would Shar AP ov and then just add the "a".
I remember one time (in that other thread) asking about Alexandrovich, the patronomic. We usually hear it as Alex AN drovich. I remember FA saying it should be Alexan DRO vich. Roll the "r" and it sounds very very Russian.
The other interesting one is Anastasia. It should be Anasta SI a.
But that other thread does have a lot of very good information. Someone just recently asked about Xenia. It should be Ks EN ia. (There might be an apostrophe in there somewhere). I think that English authors had trouble with transliteration in some cases. That is why her monogram features a K and not an X.
Another famous one is Anna Vyr U bova not Vyru BOVA.
But you get the point.
-
I think it should be VY rubova.
The Russian Wikipedia usually has the stress marked: А́нна Алекса́ндровна Вы́рубова
-
Rudy - Thanks.
The fact that it is a three syllable name made me think that it should be accented on the second syllable. I know that you speak Russian and I don't and so I thank you.
I always thought that her husband would be Vy RU bov. Is this name an exception to the general rule?
Even Medvedev. Wasn't that Med VE dev. I know that it was always pronounced differently by just about every newscaster.
Thanks
-
Med vy'ed ev
-
FA - Interesting. Thanks.
-
The Russian language can be hard for those not born into it. I look at some of these words and names and say "huh?" a lot. LOL!
-
russian names are easier than Polish ones, however. We may not get the precise nuances, but it's not like all the strings of consonants in Polish.
Ann
-
I have a friend who speaks Polish from childhood. He cannot make me understand the sounds that certain combinations of letters make. They are very different from English to Polish.
For example Lech Walesa is ,lɛk vəˈwɛnsə in English.
I asked where the "n" came from but he told me "its too hard to explain". I don't understand the upside down small "e" or the small curvy ɛ.
He may have just been tired of trying. :-)
His English is perfect (with an American accent) and yet when he started school, he spoke only Polish.
-
There is this girl who works in a bookstore a frequent. She's from Poland, and her name is Gosia. She tried to teach me some Polish words. Of course, when I tried to say them, I totally butchered them!
-
Many years ago I worked with a guy who had a Polish last name - lots of c's, z's, y's, w's with a slight sprinkling of vowels. No one could pronounce his name so we affectionately called him "John Alphabet".
-
Growing up in the town that I did, there were many Polish as well as many Portuguese.
One Polish name is Woczyk. It is pronounced Wojack.
One year when I was working in a tax preparation office, we had a computer problem which allowed each preparer to enter the names of the clients that they had seen. However, the names could also be entered more than once (that was the glitch) and so people were being counted as being more than one client. Some were entered as many as six times depending on who did the return, who took the payment and/or who might have updated the return if more information was needed.
I was office supervisor and on April 16 my assistant and I sat with lists and lists of names and tried to sort out who had been entered more than once and why. She asked me at one point, how I could pronounce some of the Polish names we came across. The only explanation I had was that I had gone to school in the town and I had known many of the families. I could pronounce the names only because I had grown up saying them in school.
The other language that can be difficult is French. There are many letters that are simply silent or groups of letters that make up a single sound.
My father's aunt married a man with a French last name. It was spelled Thibault. It was pronounced Teebow.
Sort of like the football quarterback Tim Tebow.
I took French in High School and I still can't get the accent marks right. accent aigu accent grave accent circonflexe accent tréma cédille.
It must be a lot like "ph" in English which is always "f" and "gh" which is sometimes "f" and sometimes not. (ghastly) (laugh)
-
One of the horrors at both the grammar schools I went to was dictation in French! All those endings that sounded the same but were spelt differently!
Ann
-
I love language. I love English in both the American and British version.
"We have really everything in common with America nowadays, except, of course, language." Oscar Wilde, The Canterville Ghost (1887)
I often fall into the use of British phrases like "We will meet Thursday next". I usually get odd looks from my friends and I have to say "We will met next week on Thursday."
I loved to listen to William F. Buckley, Jr.
Buckley was well known for his command of language. Buckley came late to formal instruction in the English language, not learning it until he was seven years old. He had earlier learned Spanish and French. Michelle Tsai in Slate says that he spoke English with an idiosyncratic accent: something between an old-fashioned, upper class Mid-Atlantic accent, and British Received Pronunciation, with a Southern drawl.
I also liked John Simon's Paradigms Lost: Reflections on Literacy.
-
Was it Churchill who referred to the US and Great Britain as two countries separated by a common language? Nice.
Speaking of Russian names, the great actor Peter Ustinov pronounced his name OO steen ahv, rather than the possibly more Russian way with the stress on the second syllable. And he was a genius himself with foreign languages, knowing about a dozen. Not so very unusual(well somewhat unusual)for a trained stage actor from a European background. And he was very clever and funny.
Alixz, you might want to read some of George Orwell's essays on language. They're brilliant and insightful. He was a real language maven.
-
I can usually tell when someone British writes a Fan Fiction, because they use different terms over there than we do. For example, I remember reading a Will & Grace fan fic and knew the author was British because they wrote "To get more pills, Karen went to the chemist". In North America, we say "pharmacist".
-
I was flying to America on board an American aircraft, and got rather worried when the pilot announced that we would be taking off 'momentarily'. It took me a minute or two to realise he meant 'in a moment'. To a Brit, momentarily means 'for a moment'!
Ann
-
Rodney, Actually the quote was been attributed to George Bernard Shaw, but there is no proof in his writings.
"Sometimes the inquirer asks, 'Was it Wilde or Shaw?’ The answer appears to be: both. In The Canterville Ghost (1887), Wilde wrote: ‘We have really everything in common with America nowadays except, of course, language’. However, the 1951 Treasury of Humorous Quotations (Esar & Bentley) quotes Shaw as saying: ‘England and America are two countries separated by the same language’, but without giving a source. The quote had earlier been attributed to Shaw in Reader’s Digest (November 1942).
Much the same idea occurred to Bertrand Russell (Saturday Evening Post, 3 June 1944): ‘It is a misfortune for Anglo-American friendship that the two countries are supposed to have a common language’, and in a radio talk prepared by Dylan Thomas shortly before his death (and published after it in The Listener, April 1954) - European writers and scholars in America were, he said, ‘up against the barrier of a common language’.
Inevitably this sort of dubious attribution has also been seen: ‘Winston Churchill said our two countries were divided by a common language’ (The Times, 26 January 1987; The European, 22 November 1991.) "
Like a lot of quotes, this has passed into urban legend.
Also: "What a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive" is often attributed to Shakespeare, but in reality was was by Sir. Walter Scott. This one is occasionally attributed to William Blake.
-
I was flying to America on board an American aircraft, and got rather worried when the pilot announced that we would be taking off 'momentarily'. It took me a minute or two to realise he meant 'in a moment'. To a Brit, momentarily means 'for a moment'
Yeah, I can see why that would worry you!
-
I have always thought the British way of going on Holiday is so much more happy sounding than the American going on Vacation. Vacation sounds like "I can't wait to vacate this spot". Holiday sounds like a lot of fun.
Tim - There is also Solicitor for Lawyer - here in America we always have signs that say "No Solicitation". Doesn't quite mean the same thing. Or of course the British Barrister. (I know a lawyer here in the US who has a cat named Barr - short for Barrister. Except in the US Barr would be bar as in Roseanne.)
A spanner is a wrench.
A lorry is a truck.
The Telly instead of TV.
Flat for apartment.
But it is true that no one can truly speak a language correctly without knowing the colloquialisms. That is why in the thread about the "new" N&A movie script, I told edubs that "pretty" as in "pretty clear" is an American modifier. I had doubts as to whether or not anyone in Nicholas's 1905 court would use that phrase.
-
I got a few more.
lift=elevator
loo=bathroom
fortnight=two weeks
fag=cigarette
torch=flashlight
-
:-)
-
'Closets' always make me smile. Here a 'water closet' is a rather old-fashioned term for a lavatory.
In Britain we have wardrobes.
'Trunk' also confuses me. Our cars have boots. A trunk is a type of large box for transporting clothes in, which may go in the boot.
Of course, boots are also things you wear on your feet, which may cause confusion for foreigners.
Ann
-
Consider the broad difference in meaning between the English word "toilet" and the French word "toilette", the first being the receptacle for (you know) and the second meaning the act of washing oneself. Then there's the sweet smelling "eau de toilette" which, strictly translated is "water of toilet". Oh, thank heavens I was born into an English speaking family. What a nightmare for those learning English as a second language. You have my sincere admiration!
-
RomaFan96- For pronunciation of Tsarskoe Selo, see FA's post #143 for detailed explanation. It would probably be very helpful for you to read through this entire thread. We all have trouble pronouncing a lot of the Russian words and most of them have already been discussed here.
Thank you!
-
I love the term "moving house" (instead of just move). Makes it sound like they're taking the house with them!
-
'Moving house' makes perfect sense to me!
'Hunting' is something that causes problems. In Britain we hunt foxes on horseback with a pack of hounds. Going out with a gun is shooting.
Ann
-
In Britain we hunt foxes on horseback with a pack of hounds.
Not legally, we don't!!! (Yes, I know what you meant; but I couldn't resist the temptation....)
-
'Moving house' makes perfect sense to me
Of course it would.
Not legally, we don't!!! (Yes, I know what you meant; but I couldn't resist the temptation....)
I hear now they use human volunteers to be the "fox". Of course, said human is not killed when the chase ends.
-
Rodney, Actually the quote was been attributed to George Bernard Shaw, but there is no proof in his writings.
"Sometimes the inquirer asks, 'Was it Wilde or Shaw?’ The answer appears to be: both. In The Canterville Ghost (1887), Wilde wrote: ‘We have really everything in common with America nowadays except, of course, language’. However, the 1951 Treasury of Humorous Quotations (Esar & Bentley) quotes Shaw as saying: ‘England and America are two countries separated by the same language’, but without giving a source. The quote had earlier been attributed to Shaw in Reader’s Digest (November 1942).
Much the same idea occurred to Bertrand Russell (Saturday Evening Post, 3 June 1944): ‘It is a misfortune for Anglo-American friendship that the two countries are supposed to have a common language’, and in a radio talk prepared by Dylan Thomas shortly before his death (and published after it in The Listener, April 1954) - European writers and scholars in America were, he said, ‘up against the barrier of a common language’.
Inevitably this sort of dubious attribution has also been seen: ‘Winston Churchill said our two countries were divided by a common language’ (The Times, 26 January 1987; The European, 22 November 1991.) "
Like a lot of quotes, this has passed into urban legend.
I believe I stand corrected, Alixz
-
'I hear now they use human volunteers to be the "fox".'
This is called drag hunting. A fit young man drags a blanket soaked in fox urine round a route which the hounds then follow. But if the hounds starty pursuing a genuine fox it is quite legal to hunt it.
Ann
-
And people *volunteer* for that "privilege"? Hm.
Sorry...way, way off topic, but I'm curious!
-
and this has what? to do with Russian pronunciation??
-
And people *volunteer* for that "privilege"? Hm.
Sorry...way, way off topic, but I'm curious!
They figure its more humane.
-
I only found out the proper way to announce Anastasia after watching synchronised swimming. I remember hearing that the Russian duet of Anastasia Davydova and Anastasia Ermakova always had their first names pronounced as Ana-sta-SI-a. Again, that sounds more Russian than the western pronunciation of Ana-stay-zhar or Ana-star-zyhar (the latter is more American).
Despite my British ways, I think is important to pronounce someone's name the way they themselves say it out of respect to them. It takes a while to get accustomed to the Russian stresses, but once you get it you won't forget it. It also helps when it comes to learning foreign languages. I am currently teaching myself Russian for when I go and it makes it easier to get your head around the phonetics. :D
T x
-
Once again, for anyone who still struggles with saying the names I highly recommend Romanovy, as you will learn it better if you hear a native Russian saying the words.
I always used to think Ivan Trupp was said I-van Tr-upp (as in up) but it's actually said E-van Tr-oop (like troop).
You learn something new everyday! :)
-
What about 'godoruk' ? I have more of a question about syllable stress than actual sound.
-
This site http://www.russianforfree.com/ is great for anyone who wants to learn Russian from scratch. If you devote an hour a day by the end of the week you'll well versed in simple Russian sentences. It also teaches you how to read the Cyrillic alphabet. Once you start learning the language, Russian pronunciations become much easier to get your heard around.
Tara
-
I have some other pronounciations that might be usefull:
Ekaterinburg Ye-ka-tyer-in-boorg from LDR
Mar Minister V.A. Sukhomlikov Sokh-om-leen-ov
LTC E.I. Miasoedov Myas-o-yed-ov both from "The Foe Within"
Semenovsky Semionovsky Russias Military way to the west 2nd most senior guards regiment in the Rusisia Imperial army after the Preobrazhensky
-
Good audio source for pronunciations in multiple languages: Forvo (http://www.forvo.com/search/%D0%A6%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B5%20%D0%A1%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%BE/).
-
Flipping through the book Rasputin Satyr, Saint or Satan they have prounciations of Russian words:
Borzoi bor-zoi Russian wolfhound
djipsayn gip-si-yi female gypsey
djizan dur-oc life
durak dur-oc fool
isba eez-ba peasant hut
ivrodivye ee-oo-ro-deev-ya holy idiot
muzhik moo-zheek peasant
salazki sa-laz-kee horsedrawn sled
stranik stra-neek religious mendicant
svinya sveen-ya swine
Dvina Dveena name of a river
French
Poilu Pwahl-you French infantryman
-
Borzoi bor-zoi Russian wolfhound
djipsayn gip-si-yi female gypsey
djizan dur-oc life
durak dur-oc fool
isba eez-ba peasant hut
ivrodivye ee-oo-ro-deev-ya holy idiot
muzhik moo-zheek peasant
salazki sa-laz-kee horsedrawn sled
stranik stra-neek religious mendicant
svinya sveen-ya swine
Dvina Dveena name of a river
These pronunciations are nearly worthless as long as they don't indicate stress, which is very irregular in Russian and influences how vowels are pronounced too. (Ref. the Rómanov vs. Ramánaff discussion.) A better method nowadays is looking the word up in Google Translate and use the audio feature to listen to the pronunciation there: E.g. https://translate.google.no/#en/ru/holy%20fool (https://translate.google.no/#en/ru/holy%20fool) E.g. юрóдивый > [jʉˈrodʲɪvɨj]
French
Poilu Pwahl-you French infantryman
"Pwahl-you" for poilu indicates Russian-style palatalisation (poillou / поаю) and is thus wong. It could be rendered "pwahl-ew" to English eyes and ears, but more accurate is the international standard phonetic transscription [pwa.ly]. Or just use Forvo: http://forvo.com/search/poilu/ (http://forvo.com/search/poilu/)