Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about Russian History => Russian Noble Families => Topic started by: Valmont on March 19, 2004, 01:00:45 PM

Title: Princes Baryatinsky
Post by: Valmont on March 19, 2004, 01:00:45 PM
 I read P Bariatinskaia  went back to St. petersburg on 1901 when the Empress called her.  She is last mentioned in  June, 1914, when A writes to N about P Bariatinskaia spending her last afternoon with Alix.
Does anyone know what happened to her? Did sho go back to Rome?. Alix considered her if not the closest, one of her closest friends, and yet, she vanished after the revolution.
Title: Re: Princes Baryatinsky
Post by: Nick_Nicholson on March 25, 2004, 09:29:43 AM
Valmont,

This is a question for Tim Boettger, who has dones extesive research on the Baryiatinskys.

Nick
Title: Re: Princes Baryatinsky
Post by: Valmont on March 25, 2004, 09:32:54 AM
Nick,

How do I get in touch with Tim Boettger?

Arturo Vega Llausás
Title: Re: Princes Baryatinsky
Post by: Nick_Nicholson on March 25, 2004, 12:50:02 PM
Arturo,

Tim's wonderful website (he has a whole site on the Baryatinskys) is:

http://www.geocities.com/tfboettger/

Best,

Nick
Title: Re: Princes Baryatinsky
Post by: Thierry on April 28, 2004, 03:36:30 PM
Arturo, Nick,

This is the notice in Boettger's book (volume 1, p. 78) :

"Kniajna Maria Victorovna Bariatinskaïa, née à ... le 28 décembre 1858, + ... ; demoiselle d'honneur de LL.MM. les Impératrices."

It is not very much, unfortunately.
Title: Re: Princes Baryatinsky
Post by: Joanna on May 09, 2004, 09:34:52 PM
Hello Arturo !

There are two more references in Alexandra's letters of Marie Baryatinskaya:

May 6, 1915: "...At the stores Marie Bariatinsky & Olga [her sister-in-law] were making stockings, the same as they had been doing at Moscou so far..."

June 12, 1915: "... Marie Bariatinsky dines with us & leaves to-morrow with Olga [her sister-in-law] for Kiev I think ..."

Joanna
Title: Re: Princes Baryatinsky
Post by: Dr Michael Foster on August 05, 2004, 02:17:33 PM
I am seeking to find the missing dates of birth and death for the son of Ivan Ivanovitch Bariatinsky 1772-1825; Anatole Ivanovitch Bariatinsky ?-?

In advance of anyone who is able to help; thanks!

Title: Re: Princes Baryatinsky
Post by: Mike on August 06, 2004, 01:47:45 AM
1820 - 1881. See his detailed bio here (http://www.hi-edu.ru/xPol/indexJS.htm?pages/02/543.htm) (a plug-in viewer required).
Title: Re: Princes Baryatinsky
Post by: npkyalta on October 19, 2004, 09:24:01 PM
My name is Sam Small and I am the great grandson of N.P. Krasnov.



Recently, I visited Yalta and was taken on a tour by Lyudmila, a Krasnov expert


We visited, ‘Selbillyan’, the former villa of Princess N.A. Baryatinskaya. We were told that her relatives that now reside in France had also recently visited and were impressed by Krasnov’s work.



I would like to contact those relatives, could you please assist in any way?



Title: Re: Princes Baryatinsky
Post by: elisa_1872 on October 27, 2004, 01:56:49 PM
I had always wondered whether Pcss Bariatinsky ever wrote any reminscences or told any acquaintances reminiscences that were noted down.
I discovered recently that at least two of the letters to the Pcss by Empress Alexandra are kept at Broadlands. Does anyone know what became of the rest of her papers?
Title: Re: Princes Baryatinsky
Post by: Belochka on October 27, 2004, 10:55:59 PM
Quote
I had always wondered whether Pcss Bariatinsky ever wrote any reminscences or told any acquaintances reminiscences that were noted down.


Hi elisa_1872,

You are in luck! There is a splendid read which Princess Marie Bariatinsky wrote during the 1920's in English.

The book opens with her life as a young girl, with descriptions of her own family members. She details
her personal contacts with the I.F. and includes her travels abroad.  There are chapters which deal with Stolypin's assassination and Russia's entry into the war including the events which followed leading to her exile. Her memoirs conclude with her initial impressions of England.

Her memoirs contain numerous photographs, and her own self painted portrait.

The book is: My Russian Life by Princess Anatole Marie Bariatinsky, Publ. Hutchison $& Co 1923.

:D

Title: Re: Princes Baryatinsky
Post by: veu on October 31, 2005, 10:58:21 AM
Lina Cavalieri (December 25, 1874 - February 7, 1944) was an Italian operatic soprano known for her great beauty.


Born Natalina Cavalieri in Viterbo, Latium, Italy, she lost her parents at the age of fifteen and became a ward of the state, sent to live in a Roman Catholic orphanage. The vivacious young girl was extremely unhappy under the strict raising of the nuns and at the first opportunity she ran away with a touring theatrical group.

Blessed with a good singing voice, a young Lina Cavalieri made her way to Paris, France where her stunning good looks opened doors and she obtained work as a singer at one of the city's café-concerts. From there she performed at a variety of music halls and other such venues around Europe while still working to develop her voice for the opera. A soprano, Cavalieri took voice lessons and made her opera debut in Lisbon, Portugal in 1900, the same year she married her first husband, the Russian "Prince" Bariatonsky. Eventually she followed in the footsteps of Ericlea Darclée as one of the first stars of Puccini's Tosca. In 1904 she sang at the Opera de Monte Carlo then in 1905, at the Sarah Bernhardt Theatre in Paris, Cavalieri starred opposite Enrico Caruso in the Umberto Giordano opera, Fedora. From there, she and Caruso took the show to New York City, debuting with it at the Metropolitan Opera on December 5, 1906.


Cavalieri's "hourglass" figureLina Cavalieri remained with the Metropolitan Opera for the next two seasons performing again with Caruso in 1907 in Puccini's Manon Lescaut. Renowned as much for her great beauty as for her singing voice, she became one of the most photographed stars of her time. Frequently referred to as the "world's most beautiful woman," she was part of the tightlacing tradition that saw women use corsetry to create an "hourglass" figure. During the 1909-1910 season she sang with Oscar Hammerstein's Manhattan Opera Company. Her first marriage long over, she had a whirlwind romance and marriage with Winthrop Astor Chandler (1863-1926), a member of New York's prominent Astor family. However, this marriage lasted only a very short time and Cavalieri returned to Europe where she became a much-loved star in pre-Revolutionary St. Petersburg, Russia and in the Ukraine.

During her successful career, Lina Cavalieri sang with other opera greats such as the Italian baritone Titta Ruffo and the French tenor Lucien Muratore, whom she married in 1913. After retiring from the stage, Cavalieri ran a cosmetic salon in Paris. In 1914, on the eve of her fortieth birthday, and still a very youthful looking and beautiful woman, she wrote an advice column on make up for women in Femina magazine and published a book, "My Secrets of Beauty." In 1915 she returned to her native Italy to make motion pictures. When that country became involved in World War I she went to the United States where she made four more silent films. The last three of her films were the product of her friend, the Belgian film director Edward José.

Married for the fourth time to Paolo d’Arvanni, Cavalieri returned to live with her husband in Italy. Well into her sixties when World War II broke out, she nevertheless worked as a volunteer nurse. Lina Cavalieri was killed in 1944 during an Allied bombing raid that destroyed her home in the outskirts of Florence, Italy.

In 1955, Italian actress Gina Lollobrigida portrayed Cavalieri in the film The World's Most Beautiful Woman. In 2004, a book was published authored by Paul Fryer and Olga Usova titled Lina Cavalieri -The Life of Opera’s Greatest Beauty, 1874-1944.

Filmography:

The Two Brides (1919)
A Woman of Impulse (1918)
Love's Conquest (1918)
The Eternal Temptress (1917)
La Rosa di Granada (1916)
La Sposa della morte (1915)
Manon Lescaut (1914)


Title: Re: Princes Baryatinsky
Post by: veu on October 31, 2005, 11:03:31 AM
She was the morganatic wife of Prince Alexander Bariatinski!
She was a legendary and very very very beautiful woman like Countess of Castiglione and Countess Christine Nilsson di Casa Miranda!

Photo:

(http://www.brasilcult.pro.br/teatro/Painel32.jpg)

(http://www.peoples.ru/art/theatre/opera/cavalieri/kavalieri_2.jpg)

(http://www.isideweb.com/palermo/massimo/fotox/lina_cavalieri.jpg)
Title: Re: Princes Baryatinsky
Post by: Margarita Markovna on October 31, 2005, 11:33:38 AM
The second one is amazing!
Title: Re: Princes Baryatinsky
Post by: veu on November 01, 2005, 02:26:54 PM
(http://www.viterboincartolina.it/storia/cavalieri/viterbo%20103%20lina%20cavalieri.jpg)

(http://www.viterboincartolina.it/storia/cavalieri/viterbo%20106%20lina%20cavalieri.jpg)

(http://www.viterboincartolina.it/storia/cavalieri/viterbo%20102%20lina%20cavalieri.jpg)

Title: Re: Princes Baryatinsky
Post by: veu on November 01, 2005, 02:28:59 PM
(http://www.viterboincartolina.it/storia/cavalieri/viterbo%20104%20lina%20cavalieri.jpg)

(http://www.viterboincartolina.it/storia/cavalieri/viterbo%20105%20lina%20cavalieri.jpg)

(http://www.museodellacanzone.it/img/20b.gif)

(http://www.rietiscuola.net/personaggi/foto14.JPG)
Title: Re: Princes Baryatinsky
Post by: veu on November 01, 2005, 02:31:33 PM
(http://www.beautyinmusic.com/assets/artists_large_pics/lina_cavalieri_clvg.jpg)

(http://silent-movies.org/Ladies/annex/Caval.jpg)

(http://img.tfd.com/thumb/0/07/LinaCavalieri1.jpg)

(http://www.musicpictures.com/ln_pictures/100_orig/PAL001_Lina_CAVALIERI_P.JPG)
Title: Re: Princes Baryatinsky
Post by: veu on November 01, 2005, 02:34:56 PM
(http://ladyelan.com/images/a15.jpg)

(http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~san/cavalieri2.jpg)

(http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~san/cavfur.jpg)

(http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~san/cavalieri4.jpg)
Title: Re: Princes Baryatinsky
Post by: Laura Mabee on November 01, 2005, 03:35:23 PM
She was quite a beautiful women. Please correct me where I am wrong, but wasn't her fashion of such a low neckline considered a bit "risque"?
Title: Re: Princes Baryatinsky
Post by: grandduchessella on November 01, 2005, 04:25:08 PM
Well she was a singer (often associated back then with loose morals).  :)

I have to say, she is extraordinarily lovely--probably one of the loveliest I've seen from that era.
Title: Re: Princes Baryatinsky
Post by: Fay on November 04, 2005, 11:47:24 AM
Yes, she is really wonderful. I love pictures of the beauties of old times!!!
Title: Re: Princes Baryatinsky
Post by: L. on November 26, 2005, 02:08:55 PM
   :DShe was so beautiful!!! I had never heard for her before.
Title: Re: Princes Baryatinsky
Post by: frimousse on March 29, 2006, 04:35:08 PM
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f204/frimousse5/bariatinsky.jpg)

here is the portrait of general leutenant Anatoly Ivanovich 1820-1881

what happened to his descent ?
Wladimir Anatolievich and others ? thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Princes Baryatinsky
Post by: hikaru on March 29, 2006, 11:00:37 PM
The eldest son of Anatoly Iwanowitch Baryatinsky was a close friend of the tsar Alexandr III( so called "alcohol fellow")
His name was Vladimir Anatolievich Baryatinsky ( 1843-1914), general - adjutant.
He was the Head of The Suite of the Tsesarevitch Nicholas during his travel to the East of 1890-1891.
The children of Vladimir Anatolievich:
1. Alexandr Vladimirovich - married to Ekaterina Alexanrovna Yuriecskaya
2. Anatoly Vladimirovich
3. Vladimir Vladimirovich
4. Maria Vladimirovna
5. Anna Vladimirovna married to Count Scherbatov
6. Irina Vladimirovna married to Malytsov, shooted with mother in Yalta
7. Elizaveta Vladimirovna married to Count Apraksine
I also would like to hear the further destiny of his children.
No. 2 Anatoly Vladimirovich had a daughter - Maria Anatolievna who married to an English Officer Mr. D. Ford.
Title: Re: Princes Baryatinsky
Post by: frimousse on March 29, 2006, 11:17:13 PM
thank you Hikaru !
Is Anatoly Wladimirovich the one who died in an hospital in Paris ?
Title: Re: Princes Baryatinsky
Post by: hikaru on March 29, 2006, 11:30:26 PM
I do not know exactly, it seems that he is.
According to my russian book, he died in France when he was 53.
Title: Re: Princes Baryatinsky
Post by: BobG on May 01, 2006, 11:15:36 AM
I have just finished reading Pricness Maria Sergeievna Bariantsky's book My Russian Life and wanted to point out that this is not the Princess Marie Viktorovna Bariantinskaia who is the subject of this thread and was born in 1858.  Marie Viktorovna was the aunt of Marie Sergeievna's husband (Prince Anatoli Vladimirovitch Bariatinsky).  Marie Viktorovna was Alexandra's Lady in Wainting (according My Russian Life) for the first two years of Alexandra's reign (having been appointed, no doubt, by the Dowager Empress).  Marie Viktoria's brother Vladimir (Marie Sergeievna's father-in-Law) was the Grand Master of Marie Feodorovna's court.

I do believe the reference in Alexandra's diary could be to either Marie Bariatinsky assuming that "Olga [her sister-in-law] is refering to Alix's sister-in-law, Olga Nicholaevich.  Marie Sergeievna lived in Kiev and had a hospital there and it is possible she would have been familiar with Olga Nicholaevich.  However, if the reference is to Marie Bariatinky's sister-in-law Olga, then it is Marie Viktorovna to whom Alexandra is refering.  (The younger Princess Bariatinsky did have a sister-in-law named Olga, but not until 1916.)  It makes the most sense to me that Alexandra's reference is to the Younger Princess who talks in her book about traveling back and forth from Kiev to St. Petersburg in the spring of 1915.

Ironically, Marie Sergeievna's mother-in-law (Marie Viktorovna's sister-in-law) Princess Nadejda Bariatinsky was made Lady-in-waiting to both Empresses 11/14/1913 on the Dowager Empress's birthday.  I believe other members of the family were also ladies-in-waiting.

Marie Sergeievna's Mother-in-Law was killed by the Bolsheviks in 1920 along with her daughter Irene and Irene's husband, Sergei Ivanovitch Maltsov.  She does not mention in her book what happened to Princess Marie Viktorovna.

BobG
Title: Re: Princes Baryatinsky
Post by: Vassili_Vorontsoff on May 27, 2006, 05:58:45 PM
Sam,

Perhaps could you find some contacts thanks to this...

http://www.genealogytoday.com/surname/finder.mv?Surname=Bariatinsky

or on this link:http://thepeerage.com/p10223.htm

http://www.btinternet.com/~allan_raymond/Russian_Royal_Family.htm

Good luck for your search,however perhaps if you know where they go in exil culd you ask into an ambassad service...

I f you could post a shot of the palce you was talking about it would be nice. :)

Best wishes,
Vassili
Title: Re: Princes Baryatinsky
Post by: BobG on May 30, 2006, 04:46:40 AM
Sam,
I would also be grateful if you were able to post any pictures you may have taken of Selbillyan

Also, any further information on your great grandfather would be appreciated. As you may know from this board, there is great interest in his work, especially any information you can share with us about the White Palace at Lividia built for Nicholas and Alexander.  There are a great number of people searching for floorplans of this palace.

It must be wonderful to return to Russia and see work that your great grandfather built still being used and admired today.

Bob G
Title: Re: Princes Baryatinsky
Post by: Morecambrian on June 17, 2006, 02:04:23 PM
Quote
thank you Hikaru !
Is Anatoly Wladimirovich the one who died in an hospital in Paris ?
Anatole's wife Marie ( he was her second husband)wrote a book published in the 1920's.
Title: Re: Princes Baryatinsky
Post by: winniepooh on June 20, 2006, 12:50:49 PM
Quote
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f204/frimousse5/bariatinsky.jpg)

here is the portrait of general leutenant Anatoly Ivanovich 1820-1881

what happened to his descent ?
Wladimir Anatolievich and others ? thanks in advance.


I think...this is portrait of field marshal Prince Alexander Ivanovich :)
Title: Re: Princes Baryatinsky
Post by: David_Pritchard on June 20, 2006, 01:14:21 PM
The photograph maybe of either man as the identification on it simply reads A. I. Bariatinsky. One would have to research the photograph or find its original context, meaning the website from whence it came. Otherwise one would have to determine which man had the Order of Saint George 2nd Step and two other Russian orders both of the 2nd Step.

David
Title: Re: Princes Baryatinsky
Post by: icopisky on March 08, 2008, 05:39:50 PM
I'm researching about Italian pianist and music director Redento Zardo who lived in St.Petersburg between 1900 and 1908 (year of his death). Someone could see if in Lina Cavalieri's biographies are remembered this pianist? Thanks for help.
Title: Re: Princes Baryatinsky
Post by: Mari on March 12, 2008, 05:58:28 AM
Well, She certainly lived up to her reputation as a beautiful Woman. I wonder if she is wearing an opera costume in the last photo?
Title: Re: Princes Baryatinsky
Post by: raino on July 20, 2008, 08:49:31 AM
I am wondering why there is so little information available of Prince A.V. Bariatinsky (1848-1909). I have found articles on the internet of his father Vladimir Ivanovich (1817-1875) and grandfather Ivan Ivanovich (1772-1825), something also about his sisters Maria (1851-1937), e.g. her ”Diary of a Russian Princess in a Bolsheviks Prison”, and Elisaveta (1855-1938) > Schouvaloff.
We know hat he was married twice, 1872 with Elena Orlova-Denissova and 1897 with Anna Pokhrovskaja. Besides the internet tells about A.V. Bariatinsky that he was ”в 1875 полковник, флигель-адъютант, в 1884 отчислен от командования полком и зачислен по армейской пехоте, далее жил в Париже, скончался генерал-майором в отставке” - that is: in a fairly good position at the court as a commander of a life guard regiment, until something happened or changed 1884.
I also know that he spent all his summers 1884-1894 in South-Eastern Finland, which was then part of Russia, some 200 km from St. Petersburg, in a house which was built for that purpose (and still exists). According to a local reminiscence he was ordered to change his place of residence every three months after his dismissal 1884 and living there was a part of that course of life until the reprieve 1894. I would appreciate any information or hints of sources about the Prince, reasons for dismissal, about his life, family etc. Originally it is a question of writing local history, but now I am also personally interested in the Prince's life as a part of the era.
Title: Re: Princes Baryatinsky
Post by: raino on October 19, 2008, 02:43:32 PM
Alexander Vladimirovich seems to be little known to everybody. No wonder: his only child Vladimir died in Biarritz 1901, at the age of 21, and neither her sisters ”Betsy” (Shuvalova) and Maria had descendants. Some fragments have appeared, however. First, the name of the prince came up in a German description of an old Austrian castle in Schönwörth (or Niederbreitenbach). ”Fürst Alexander Wladimir Bariatinsky” bought the castle in 1886 and made it flourish during the next ten years until he 1894 moved to Paris. This suits well together with the assumptions in my earlier text how the Prince was obliged to live abroad. In the article it is mentioned that because Bariatinsky really ”lived like a prince”, some of the conservative people in the Austrian country region did not like that, despite his generous support to the community.

Another source, the history of the Russian chevalier life guard, published in Paris 1966, gives some information of the immediate reasons, why Bariatinsky was dismissed 24.7.2884, after being only one year as the commander of the regiment. During the coronary of Alexander III in May 1883 Bariatinsky was one of the ”Flugeladjutants / флигель-адъютант» . According to the book, the tzar noticed that the saddle of Bariatinsky was not examplary and ordered him to be arrested. Bariatinsky who accompanied the Duke of Edinburgh, spouse of Grandduchess Maria Alexandrovna, considered that he was compromised in the eyes of the guests and travelled abroad for a while.
He was nominated commander of the life guard regiment only a couple of months later, but taking himself as insulted he refused to wear the official court uniform — despite the appeals of his officers (who according to the book liked him), and the general-inspector of the cavalry.

The uniform can be seen for example http://www.rulex.ru/rpg/portraits/25/25589.htm in the picture of the predecessor of Bariatinsky, Baron Fredericks. It certainly takes a while to dress - I would not choose it -  but I cannot help thinking that there has been something else or at least more than manners and arrogance at stake.
Title: Re: Princes Baryatinsky
Post by: Mike on October 19, 2008, 04:09:29 PM
I don't know who's the officer pictured on the linked photo, but Baron Fredericks he's definitely not. The uniform he wears is that of Life Guard Hussars, not the Horse Guard. The Russian album's attribution is wrong.
Title: Re: Princes Baryatinsky
Post by: ashdean on October 21, 2008, 09:32:38 AM
I am wondering why there is so little information available of Prince A.V. Bariatinsky (1848-1909). I have found articles on the internet of his father Vladimir Ivanovich (1817-1875) and grandfather Ivan Ivanovich (1772-1825), something also about his sisters Maria (1851-1937), e.g. her ”Diary of a Russian Princess in a Bolsheviks Prison”, and Elisaveta (1855-1938) > Schouvaloff.
We know hat he was married twice, 1872 with Elena Orlova-Denissova and 1897 with Anna Pokhrovskaja. Besides the internet tells about A.V. Bariatinsky that he was ”в 1875 полковник, флигель-адъютант, в 1884 отчислен от командования полком и зачислен по армейской пехоте, далее жил в Париже, скончался генерал-майором в отставке” - that is: in a fairly good position at the court as a commander of a life guard regiment, until something happened or changed 1884.
I also know that he spent all his summers 1884-1894 in South-Eastern Finland, which was then part of Russia, some 200 km from St. Petersburg, in a house which was built for that purpose (and still exists). According to a local reminiscence he was ordered to change his place of residence every three months after his dismissal 1884 and living there was a part of that course of life until the reprieve 1894. I would appreciate any information or hints of sources about the Prince, reasons for dismissal, about his life, family etc. Originally it is a question of writing local history, but now I am also personally interested in the Prince's life as a part of the era.
Is there details of the book by Princess M Bariatinskaya please? and what was her married name?
Title: Re: Princes Baryatinsky
Post by: raino on October 22, 2008, 12:36:37 PM
I don't know who's the officer pictured on the linked photo, but Baron Fredericks he's definitely not. The uniform he wears is that of Life Guard Hussars, not the Horse Guard. The Russian album's attribution is wrong.

Thanks for commenting. I know that better not trust too much this kind of sources. The man in the picture resembled to me however another "Baron Fredericks"  - see http://www.goldcompany.ru/photo/frederiks.jpg - so I believed the text in the picture.
But if the uniform is not what Bariatinsky refused to wear, I have to try to find another picture. Probably there are no photos of Bariatinsky himself.
Title: Re: Princes Baryatinsky
Post by: raino on October 22, 2008, 01:30:11 PM
Is there details of the book by Princess M Bariatinskaya please? and what was her married name?
[/quote]
I have found following details: Princess Maria Vladimirovna Bariatinskaia (born 29.4.1851, died 2.7.1937 Nice, France) was married twice: from 1882 with Grigori Petrovitch Izvolski (1854 - died in 1884 Menton, France), then from 1888 with her cousin Prince Ivan Victorovitch Bariatinski, son of Prince Victor Ivanovitch Bariatinski and Maria Apollinarievna Boutenieva, born 9 April 1857 Rome, died 9 June 1915.

The booklet "Diary of a Russian Princess in a Bolsheviks Prison" has been first published in English in Berlin, the year is unknown. Thanks to some co-incidences it was found some years ago, translated and published in 2003 in Russian in the periodical "Крымск альбом"(Crimean Album). The details of the Russian article are:
Дневник русской княгини в большевистской тюрьме. Январь 1918 г. / Барятинская Мария Владимировна; Публ. Иванова Людмила Михайловна, Пер. Литаш Ольга Андреевна. - Б.м.. - С. 72 - 107; 2003. [Вып. 8]. - 239 с.: ил.. - ISBN 5-942930-06-6

             
                
             
            
             
              
Title: Re: Princes Baryatinsky
Post by: amelia on October 22, 2008, 03:41:04 PM
Do yoy know if we can find this book in English or French somewhere? Thanks Amelia
Title: Re: Princes Baryatinsky
Post by: raino on October 23, 2008, 12:33:38 PM
Do yoy know if we can find this book in English or French somewhere? Thanks Amelia
All I know is what the foreword of the Russian article says. For people in the Yalta state historic-literary museum it was a surprise when they as a result of some contacts received the original book in English from Washington. It was translated to Russian by Olga Litash and edited by Ljudmila Ivanova, who worked in the museum. So maybe someone in the Library of Congress in Washington or in that museum in Yalta could help. Maybe someone knows other libraries where to search copies of this kind of literature?
Title: Re: Princes Baryatinsky
Post by: Kufstein on March 11, 2009, 12:06:00 AM
Dear Raino, being owner of the Tyrolean Castle Schönwörth I'm interested in any information about Alexander Vladimirovich 22. Prince Bariatinski who has lived there for some years. Can you help me in finding out more about him?
Thank you in advance for any hint!
Title: Re: Princes Baryatinsky
Post by: Kufstein on March 11, 2009, 12:11:26 AM
Russian nobles in Tyrol, how did they live, buy castles, renew them, find relationships and finally leave the country? Especially the story of Alexander Vladimirovich 22. Prince Bariatinski and his young Italian lover is a very interesting one. Do you know anything about the noble, the castle or the couple?
Title: Re: Princes Baryatinsky
Post by: raino on April 07, 2009, 10:10:54 AM
Russian nobles in Tyrol, how did they live, buy castles, renew them, find relationships and finally leave the country? Especially the story of Alexander Vladimirovich 22. Prince Bariatinski and his young Italian lover is a very interesting one. Do you know anything about the noble, the castle or the couple?

Glad to hear that there are others interested in the life of this prince Bariatinsky, but sorry to say that I do not know much more than what I have written earlier. I have sent e-mail to the municipality in Tiroli (Gemeindeamt Langkampfen) asking if there is more information but the result is no reply. However, there was last year an internet article about Niederbreitenbach region with a detailed illustration how the prince had renovated the castle:

(“Nun begann eine kurze Blütezeit des Ansitzes, der bisher nur aus dem rechteckigen, mit einem hohen Zeltdach versehenen, spätmittelalterlichen vierstöckigen Turm und einem Anbau an der Rückseite bestand. Bariatinsky ließ verschiedene Zubauten errichten, in den Remisen, Pferdeställe und Dienerwohnungen eingerichtet wurden. 1889 wurde an der Südseite ein schlanker Treppenturm aus Tuffstein angefügt. Dem Stiegenhaus fiel die bisherige Kapelle zum Opfer. An der Dorfseite wurde das Wappen des neuen Besitzers angebracht. Um mehr Raum für Besucher und Angestellte zu gewinnen, wurde das Innere des alten Turmes in kleine Zimmer unterteilt. 1890 wurde der Trakt mit dem Saal über der gewölbten Durchfahrt zum Park ausgebaut. Durch den Zukauf der umliegenden Gründe konnte ein schöner Park angelegt werden, der mit einer Mauer umgeben wurde. Das Innere wurde mit zugekauften alten Täfelungen, Türen, Holzdecken, Öfen und Möbeln prächtig ausgestattet. In einer Innsbrucker Firma wurden zahlreiche Glasfenster mit den Wappen der Familie Schurff angefertigt. Die Arbeiten im Schloss wurden von Jakob Hechenblaikner aus Innsbruck geleitet und größtenteils von einheimischen Handwerkern durchgeführt. Der Fürst führte hier ein wahrhaft fürstliches Leben und machte sich dadurch bei Teilen der konservativen Dorfbevölkerung unbeliebt, obwohl er die Gemeinde durchaus großzügig unterstützte. 1894 fühlte er sich hier nicht mehr besonders wohl und zog nach Frankreich“)

About the relationships and affairs: there are lots of articles of a younger and better known Alexander Vladimirovich Bariatinsky (1870-1910) and his affair with an Italian opera star. About the cousin of his father, Alexander Vladimirovich Bariatinsky (1848  - 1909) I have only found that he was married  with Elena Orlova-Denissova from 1872  till divorce and then with Anna Pokhrovskaja from 1897.
I wish you good luck in this search and promise to inform when something new emerges!
Title: Re: Princes Baryatinsky
Post by: Matthew Wilde on March 19, 2012, 01:08:25 PM
I wonder if anyone can clarify the Schouvaloff link for me.  I note the above comment that Elizaveta Schouvaloff nee Baryatinsky was childless, but I had thought she married Count Paul Schouvaloff, and had a daughter Alexandra.  This Alexandra Schouvaloff married Prince Wiasemsky and then (as a widow) Count Alexander Fersen.  The 1920 London marriage certificate for the second marriage gives the fathers as Count Nicholas Fersen and Count Paul Schouvaloff (deceased).  I wonder if I am muddling my Count Schouvaloffs.  (I should also be interested to know more about the marriage witnesses: Lucy Beatrice King and Dorothy Cursons.)  Thank you.
Title: Re: Princes Baryatinsky
Post by: Svetabel on March 19, 2012, 01:46:52 PM
I wonder if anyone can clarify the Schouvaloff link for me.  I note the above comment that Elizaveta Schouvaloff nee Baryatinsky was childless, but I had thought she married Count Paul Schouvaloff, and had a daughter Alexandra.  This Alexandra Schouvaloff married Prince Wiasemsky and then (as a widow) Count Alexander Fersen.  The 1920 London marriage certificate for the second marriage gives the fathers as Count Nicholas Fersen and Count Paul Schouvaloff (deceased).  I wonder if I am muddling my Count Schouvaloffs.  (I should also be interested to know more about the marriage witnesses: Lucy Beatrice King and Dorothy Cursons.)  Thank you.


Yes, you mixed up the 2 Schuvalov. Alexandra was a daughter of Count Pavel Pavlovitch, former ADC of GD Sergei Alexandrovitch and governor of Moscow in the 1905. The same 1905 year Pavel was murdered by anarchists. His wife was Alexandra Illarionovna Vorontzova-Dashkova.
Title: Re: Princes Baryatinsky
Post by: Matthew Wilde on March 20, 2012, 01:07:58 PM
Thank you very much.  I don't suppose you know whether the Countess Alexandra Fersen (nee Schouvaloff) had daughters called Sophia and Maria?  (I ask because an ancestor left those three countesses an annuity in her will, and I'm trying to work out exactly who they were.)
Title: Re: Princes Baryatinsky
Post by: Svetabel on March 21, 2012, 12:52:14 AM
Thank you very much.  I don't suppose you know whether the Countess Alexandra Fersen (nee Schouvaloff) had daughters called Sophia and Maria?  (I ask because an ancestor left those three countesses an annuity in her will, and I'm trying to work out exactly who they were.)

Alexandra did have 2 daughters by Fersen - Sophia and Maria.
Title: Re: Princes Baryatinsky
Post by: ashdean on March 26, 2012, 08:23:54 AM
I wonder if anyone can clarify the Schouvaloff link for me.  I note the above comment that Elizaveta Schouvaloff nee Baryatinsky was childless, but I had thought she married Count Paul Schouvaloff, and had a daughter Alexandra.  This Alexandra Schouvaloff married Prince Wiasemsky and then (as a widow) Count Alexander Fersen.  The 1920 London marriage certificate for the second marriage gives the fathers as Count Nicholas Fersen and Count Paul Schouvaloff (deceased).  I wonder if I am muddling my Count Schouvaloffs.  (I should also be interested to know more about the marriage witnesses: Lucy Beatrice King and Dorothy Cursons.)  Thank you.

There will be more information on Countess Alexandra in the genelogical books by Jacques Ferrand....especially the one on the Counts of the Empire.
I do not have a copy but if memory serves me right Alexandra may have died in New York city circa 1968.
Count Alexander was one of the 2 sons of Count Nicholas Fersen (who died in Rome in 1920) and his wife nee Princess Olga Doulgoruky.The couple probably were in the Crimea together and evacuated by the british and french ships in April 1919. Countess Alexandra may have been with her mother and sisters who were housed at Alupka the famed estate of her maternal grandmother Countess "Lily" Vorontsov Dashkov (nee Shouvalova) or with her Wiazemsky/Wassiltchikov in laws (her first husbands sister Lydia had married Prince Ilarion Wiazemsky) who left on the Princess Ena.
Her future husband may have left on the Grafton with his mother and sisters (his father and his maternal grandmother left on the Marlborough).His brother Count Paul Fersen certainly departed in April 1919 as the following month in Genoa he married another of the Marlborough passengers Baroness Marie de Staal.
Alexandra was one of three first cousins (all granddaughters of Count Ilarion and Countess Elisabeth Vorontsov-Dashkov)married to three Wiazemsky brothers. Only the youngest survived.
Title: Re: Princes Baryatinsky
Post by: Inok Nikolai on March 30, 2012, 05:21:52 PM
I have just finished reading Pricness Maria Sergeievna Bariantsky's book My Russian Life and wanted to point out that this is not the Princess Marie Viktorovna Bariantinskaia who is the subject of this thread and was born in 1858.  Marie Viktorovna was the aunt of Marie Sergeievna's husband (Prince Anatoli Vladimirovitch Bariatinsky).  Marie Viktorovna was Alexandra's Lady in Wainting (according My Russian Life) for the first two years of Alexandra's reign (having been appointed, no doubt, by the Dowager Empress).  Marie Viktoria's brother Vladimir (Marie Sergeievna's father-in-Law) was the Grand Master of Marie Feodorovna's court.

I do believe the reference in Alexandra's diary could be to either Marie Bariatinsky assuming that "Olga [her sister-in-law] is refering to Alix's sister-in-law, Olga Nicholaevich.  Marie Sergeievna lived in Kiev and had a hospital there and it is possible she would have been familiar with Olga Nicholaevich.  However, if the reference is to Marie Bariatinky's sister-in-law Olga, then it is Marie Viktorovna to whom Alexandra is refering.  (The younger Princess Bariatinsky did have a sister-in-law named Olga, but not until 1916.)  It makes the most sense to me that Alexandra's reference is to the Younger Princess who talks in her book about traveling back and forth from Kiev to St. Petersburg in the spring of 1915.

Ironically, Marie Sergeievna's mother-in-law (Marie Viktorovna's sister-in-law) Princess Nadejda Bariatinsky was made Lady-in-waiting to both Empresses 11/14/1913 on the Dowager Empress's birthday.  I believe other members of the family were also ladies-in-waiting.

Marie Sergeievna's Mother-in-Law was killed by the Bolsheviks in 1920 along with her daughter Irene and Irene's husband, Sergei Ivanovitch Maltsov.  She does not mention in her book what happened to Princess Marie Viktorovna.

BobG


It's probably outdated by now, but I thought to share with you this partial family tree of the Bariatinskys which I drew up (in the wooly days before the Internet) to keep all the "Maria Bariatinskayas" straight while I was working on the Letters from Captivity.

Later I added the reference numbers assigned to the family members by Timothy Boettgers in his monumental three-volume work.


(http://i1064.photobucket.com/albums/u368/InokNikolai/Royal%20Martyrs/th_ScanBariatinskyFamilyChart.jpg) (http://s1064.photobucket.com/albums/u368/InokNikolai/Royal%20Martyrs/?action=view&current=ScanBariatinskyFamilyChart.jpg)

Since Timothy doesn't seem to be posting much on line anymore, I included here the reference to his book. I had access to it earlier, but, alas, we do not own a copy.

 La descendance d’Alexandre Andréïevitch, 1er prince Bariatinski : une généalogie biographique
Timothy F. Boettger, préface de Jacques Ferrand
Seattle, Washington, USA 1996

ISBN: 0965133001 (set)
096513301X (v. 1)
0965133028 (v. 2)
0965133036 (v. 3)


In her letter of April 6/19, 1918, to A. A. Vyrubova, Empress Alexandra Feodorovna writes of a Princess Bariatinskaya in the Crimea. However, in the published versions of this letter (contained in "Russkaya Letopis" and in Mr. Alferieff's book) there is an error.

They read the letter to say Больная (ill) Princess, when what the original (in the Beinecke Library at Yale) really has is: Большая (Big) Princess Bariatinskaya. It refers to Maria Vladimirovna, not Maria Victorovna.


BTW: Does anyone know why Elizabeth, wife of Vladimir Ivanovich (296) was known as “Princess Château”?

Inok Nikolai
Title: Re: Princes Baryatinsky
Post by: ashdean on April 01, 2012, 12:23:22 PM
I wonder if anyone can clarify the Schouvaloff link for me.  I note the above comment that Elizaveta Schouvaloff nee Baryatinsky was childless, but I had thought she married Count Paul Schouvaloff, and had a daughter Alexandra.  This Alexandra Schouvaloff married Prince Wiasemsky and then (as a widow) Count Alexander Fersen.  The 1920 London marriage certificate for the second marriage gives the fathers as Count Nicholas Fersen and Count Paul Schouvaloff (deceased).  I wonder if I am muddling my Count Schouvaloffs.  (I should also be interested to know more about the marriage witnesses: Lucy Beatrice King and Dorothy Cursons.)  Thank you.

There will be more information on Countess Alexandra in the genelogical books by Jacques Ferrand....especially the one on the Counts of the Empire.
I do not have a copy but if memory serves me right Alexandra may have died in New York city circa 1968.
Count Alexander was one of the 2 sons of Count Nicholas Fersen (who died in Rome in 1920) and his wife nee Princess Olga Doulgoruky.The couple probably were in the Crimea together and evacuated by the british and french ships in April 1919. Countess Alexandra may have been with her mother and sisters who were housed at Alupka the famed estate of her maternal grandmother Countess "Lily" Vorontsov Dashkov (nee Shouvalova) or with her Wiazemsky/Wassiltchikov in laws (her first husbands sister Lydia had married Prince Ilarion Wiazemsky) who left on the Princess Ena.
Her future husband may have left on the Grafton with his mother and sisters (his father and his maternal grandmother left on the Marlborough).His brother Count Paul Fersen certainly departed in April 1919 as the following month in Genoa he married another of the Marlborough passengers Baroness Marie de Staal.
Alexandra was one of three first cousins (all granddaughters of Count Ilarion and Countess Elisabeth Vorontsov-Dashkov)married to three Wiazemsky brothers. Only the youngest survived.
Count Nicholas Fersen died in Rome on 3/11/1921.His wife Sophia Alexandrovna nee Princess Doulgoruky died in Rome on 3/11/1957 having outlived both their sons and their elder daughter.
Title: Re: Princes Baryatinsky
Post by: bednayaliza on April 07, 2012, 03:47:47 PM
(http://i069.radikal.ru/1204/e7/232f03a8d28a.jpg) (http://www.radikal.ru)  Marie Ivanovna Baryatinsky
Title: Re: Princes Baryatinsky
Post by: bednayaliza on April 07, 2012, 03:50:40 PM
(http://s019.radikal.ru/i621/1204/b1/7e8362bfd328.jpg) (http://www.radikal.ru)

Marie Ivanovna Baryatinsky (1818-1843) a close friend of  Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaevna, by Christina Robertson
Title: Re: Princes Baryatinsky and Shouvalov
Post by: burlion on February 10, 2014, 04:29:43 AM
Is somebody can confirm me it's a portrait of the Shouvalov Family ?

Some sources called this painting "Miss Battany (Batthyany ?)" another source said it was a portrait of Sofia Chouvalov  (Shouvalova) death in 1879.

This painting showing a lady in blue, by Franz Xaver Winterhalter. 1854. Saint - Blasien Kreismuseum, Deutschland. I TRY TO GIVE YOU A PHOTO : [][/img]file:///home/guerin5/Bureau/dameenbleu.jpg
file:///home/guerin5/Bureau/dameenbleu.jpg
Title: Re: Princes Baryatinsky
Post by: Svetabel on February 10, 2014, 07:05:03 AM
Sorry, we need a link to see an image.