By chance, are all of Olga diaries from 1913 to 1918 accounted for in GARF?
The book "August Sisters of Mercy" has in the introduction information about what GARF has in its archives by the Grand Duchesses. About the diaries, the information is as follows:
Olga: 12 diaries from 1905 - 1917, with the 1910 volume missing. The first entry on 01/01/05 begins "I was at Church with Mama and Papa." Olga's last diary entry was on 15/03/17.
Tatiana: 9 diaries from 1907 - 1916, with the 1911 one missing. The last entry is on 24/10/16. The exercise book she used for a diary for the rest of the year and into 1917, apparantly, she destroyed.
Maria: 3 diaries: 1912, 1913 and 1916.
Anastasia: No diaries. All appear to have been destroyed or lost. There are however some of her exercise books, compositions, drawings, letters etc.
All 4 of course have photo albums and photos in the archives, too.
Wonder how many albums each Grand Duchess had? Which number of photos, which period, etc.
I guess they toke many photos just because simply they loved to do it. Also, one part went for postcards, some went to Russian newspapers, and some for their Private albums. Agree? It means, one photo, IMO, were several times copied.
And, back to topic(partly) did OTMA held their own photos in diaries, or in Albums? Just curious. ;)
I think Anastasia destroyed her diary whilst in Tobolsk, I read somewhere on the forum.
I've already ordered a copy trough van Hoogstraten.
There are 4 copies of the book being sold as "Buy It Now" on E-bay. Price is $25.00 american dollars plus $15.00 shipping and handling.
1. Olga's overall lightheartedness. Now that I have some solid context for her pre-war personality, I'd really like to read the wartime diaries and letters so I can gauge her changing state of mind.
Some readers may disagree with me, but IMO, Olga's relationship with Pavel Voronov wasn't much more than an intense teenage crush. Infatuations with three other officers also flare and then fade within the course of the year. (I was amused to discover that 33-year-old Sablin was one of them.) For example, near the end of the year her affection for "S" (Voronov) even seems to wane a bit as another fellow called "Sh" takes prominence.
Olga's lack of introspection. She writes plainly of being happy, sad, bored, etc. and you can infer her state of mind from the overall tone, but IMO there's little depth. It's all surface emotion, though her entries aren't quite as laden with pet names and endearments as I'd expected.
But if she was also exceptionally thoughtful and perceptive, it doesn't come across in her 1913 diary. Matter of fact, this diary reminds me a bit of the beginning of Anne Frank's diary -- for all her eventual wisdom and insight in captivity, Anne was a perfectly typical teenager at the beginning, and so is Olga throughout 1913.
Again, I'm left REALLY wanting to read the girls' wartime diaries to see how their outlook changes.
Oh, and how cute/funny was it that she'd watch Voronov through binoculars? :-)
I wonder who that AKSH fella was. Anyone know?
And I forgot list of OTM diaries with years. Only remember Maria's for 1913, 1916. And Tatiana's for 1916.
AK is a cossack officer i gather and NP is from the Standardt i guess.
Finally, I was really surprised at her entry of February 15th when she states that Grigory (Rasputin) "kept patting Alexei on the head and said that I could rule like Tsarinas did in the past." Seems kind of insensitive to me, saying that right in front of the little boy! Almost insinuating that his sister could rule if something were to happen to him.
I wonder who that AKSH fella was. Anyone know?I belive that AKSH, Shurik and Sh are the same person. Shurik was the nickname for Aleksander Konstantinovits Shvedov. I've only quickly read the diary, but AKSH, Shurik and Sh never seem to be mentioned at the same time. Also AKSH's name day (30 August) is name day for Aleksander. I rest my case :-D
I belive that AKSH, Shurik and Sh are the same person. Shurik was the nickname for Aleksander Konstantinovits Shvedov. I've only quickly read the diary, but AKSH, Shurik and Sh never seem to be mentioned at the same time. Also AKSH's name day (30 August) is name day for Aleksander. I rest my case :-D
I really enjoy reading about her crushes, makes her seem more "real" and like any normal teenage girl.
And I also like it how even at the age of 17 she enjoyed playing hide-and-seek and other childish (to our eyes) games. I think it's charming and shows her innocence. But I believe that at that time girls of her rank especially stayed childish longer than they do now, where by 17 a girl is into modern past-times like boyfriends, shopping, movies, etc. My mother went to Russia in the 1960's and was struck by how even older teenage girls wore large bows in their hair like little girls.
Finally, I was really surprised at her entry of February 15th when she states that Grigory (Rasputin) "kept patting Alexei on the head and said that I could rule like Tsarinas did in the past." Seems kind of insensitive to me, saying that right in front of the little boy! Almost insinuating that his sister could rule if something were to happen to him.
Does anyone know what Olga meant by "turnip applications"? I have no clue. LOL.
I belive that AKSH, Shurik and Sh are the same person. Shurik was the nickname for Aleksander Konstantinovits Shvedov. I've only quickly read the diary, but AKSH, Shurik and Sh never seem to be mentioned at the same time. Also AKSH's name day (30 August) is name day for Aleksander. I rest my case :-D
Olga gives AKSH's birthdate as July 25. Does that match with Shvedov?
Do you recall a date? I remember the phrase but not the context.
On July 7th, Olga said that Voronov was "a bit sad. He enjoyed himself just a bit today, as he showed me just a tip of his pinky." I don't get it. What does that mean?
Pinky suggests to me the little finger on your hand. Maybe he was only giving half-hearted salutes or something like that. Maybe just the meaning is lost in translation or a phrase that only Olga would understand herself.
What were you thinking..............??????
Marina Petrov is a professional translator I hired when I return to the United States after my first trip to Russia in 2005. During my first trip to GARF, I made copies of some of the family’s diaries and letters (as well as other documents) and came to the decision to publish Grand Duchess Olga’s 1913 diary in order to give people a glimpse into the private life of the family. After the translation of the diary was completed, I did the editing, wrote the introduction and included an explanation of the Russian calendar in 1913, as well as a list of people Olga wrote about in her diary and their relation to her.
I want to thank everyone who has sent me private messages of congratulations. I do apologize to the people I have not yet gotten back to. Life has been kind of hectic lately, so I am taking a much needed vacation soon. Also, thanks to the people who knew about this project of mine long before it was ever mentioned here on the forum. Your words of encouragement and interest in the book were so kind. Yes, that includes you Teddy! Thank you!
PS By the way, the book is great. But I'm curious about the authors reason behind it, to publish the diary in the first place! What were her motives.
I love the book. I'm glad that nothing was left out from the Grand Duchess's diary. I'm just disappointed to the fact that I didn't find any new rare pics. But I think because of the price of the book that it wasn't possible to publish new pics. Why is GARF so jealously protective of the last imperial family's albums and pics? Also, there was an entry where Olga's hair was washed with gasoline!!!! My mom said that was done in the old times to get rid of lice. :o
As we can read from Olga's diary, she had a very active social life, visits from family, playing games with cousins, attending society events, etc. She was either out or had visitors every day.
I'm going to write to Gilbert Royal Books, to thank for the book and let him know that from my point of view, I think that many people would also buy all the other diaries if someone had to change to translate and publish them.
Maybe if more members of this board would write Gilbert, telling him the same, Raegan or someone else will go to publish the other diaries. Not only from Olga, but also of her siblings, father and mother, in the same form, ms Baker did.
So, who thinks that the diaries must be published: please write!
Does anyone know what Olga meant by "turnip applications"? I have no clue. LOL.Could it be some kind of cure for her leg? Didn't she mention them after her fall?
As we can read from Olga's diary, she had a very active social life, visits from family, playing games with cousins, attending society events, etc. She was either out or had visitors every day.
That's true, but I'd love to know even more about these visitors and acquaintances. How many of them were Olga's age? Sablin, for example, was 33. I believe Voronov was at least 10 years older than Olga. There are very few young women mentioned at all outside of her own cousins. Many of the people she lists as visitors to the palace and guests at meals were her father's aides-de-camp. Did she form any real relationships with the people she had tea and played games with at Olga Alexandrovna's, or were they basically occasional playmates?
So yes, Olga definitely had a lot more social activity than we're used to believing, but I'm still cautious about saying she had a well-rounded social life. The apparent lack of friendships with people her own age is still bothersome to me.
After all, by the standards of her day, the Grand Duchess Olga of the early 1910s had plenty of company, and an infinitely happier and more active social life than the overwhelming majority of her contemporaries. Let us recall that the idea of the "teenager" only really emerged in American culture of the 1950s. Prior to this, once you passed the age of fifteen or sixteen (depending on your social status, it was often quite younger), whether male or female, you were an adult for all intents and purposes, and expected to make your own way, or at the very least contribute to your family's economic welfare, either by work or by marriage or both. Most Russian and for that matter European "teenagers" of Olga's time did not lead such carefree lives as she did. And this general rule, that one owed to family and society what family and society dictated, was not only applied to the common masses, it affected the nobility as well.
So let's face it, Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaevna led an extremely pampered, sheltered, and yes, carefree life, up until the outbreak of the first world war. She was not under pressure to make an advantageous marriage. She had polite, non-threatening partners galore for her dances and silly card games (whether these men were thirty years old or her own age scarcely matters in terms of the fun quotient, in fact it seems to me the older the wiser and more gentlemanly), she went to the theater, opera, and ballet on a regular basis, she went on a special tour of much of the Russian empire during the tercentary of the Romanov dynasty, she attended endless balls, parties, teas, etc., etc., etc. She was hardly deprived! The whole notion that the daughters of Nicholas II and Alexandra were "isolated" and cut off from an "active social life" should be thoroughly discredited by the publication of this diary by Raegan Baker.
In short, while I can certainly believe their social lives were contextually appropriate, it seems to me that OTMA's social *development* was perhaps incomplete in some ways.
But how exactly does such childishness fit in with their daily social interactions with much older adult courtiers and officers?
Granted, maybe some of these adults had also led such sheltered and pampered lives that they acted and talked like children themselves - in my opinion, that's a definite possibility. When I think of the stupid practical jokes that Edward VII and Nicholas II and indeed their entire family were so fond of - it makes me cringe, it truly does, because it's all evidence of very juvenile tastes and behavior.
As we can read from Olga's diary, she had a very active social life, visits from family, playing games with cousins, attending society events, etc. She was either out or had visitors every day.
That's true, but I'd love to know even more about these visitors and acquaintances. How many of them were Olga's age? Sablin, for example, was 33. I believe Voronov was at least 10 years older than Olga. There are very few young women mentioned at all outside of her own cousins. Many of the people she lists as visitors to the palace and guests at meals were her father's aides-de-camp. Did she form any real relationships with the people she had tea and played games with at Olga Alexandrovna's, or were they basically occasional playmates?
So yes, Olga definitely had a lot more social activity than we're used to believing, but I'm still cautious about saying she had a well-rounded social life. The apparent lack of friendships with people her own age is still bothersome to me.
I have to admit that for me, when I was reading Olga's 1913 diary, the whole issue of her and her sisters' so-called social isolation, which has been such a ubiquitous theme in recent historical works about the imperial family, seemed like a complete mischaracterization of their lives, in no small part because modern commentators read early 20th-century lives as if they should be late-20th century, early 21st-century lives. After all, by the standards of her day, the Grand Duchess Olga of the early 1910s had plenty of company, and an infinitely happier and more active social life than the overwhelming majority of her contemporaries. Let us recall that the idea of the "teenager" only really emerged in American culture of the 1950s. Prior to this, once you passed the age of fifteen or sixteen (depending on your social status, it was often quite younger), whether male or female, you were an adult for all intents and purposes, and expected to make your own way, or at the very least contribute to your family's economic welfare, either by work or by marriage or both. Most Russian and for that matter European "teenagers" of Olga's time did not lead such carefree lives as she did. And this general rule, that one owed to family and society what family and society dictated, was not only applied to the common masses, it affected the nobility as well.
So let's face it, Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaevna led an extremely pampered, sheltered, and yes, carefree life, up until the outbreak of the first world war. She was not under pressure to make an advantageous marriage. She had polite, non-threatening partners galore for her dances and silly card games (whether these men were thirty years old or her own age scarcely matters in terms of the fun quotient, in fact it seems to me the older the wiser and more gentlemanly), she went to the theater, opera, and ballet on a regular basis, she went on a special tour of much of the Russian empire during the tercentary of the Romanov dynasty, she attended endless balls, parties, teas, etc., etc., etc. She was hardly deprived! The whole notion that the daughters of Nicholas II and Alexandra were "isolated" and cut off from an "active social life" should be thoroughly discredited by the publication of this diary by Raegan Baker.
You might well ask, what struck me most about Olga's diary for 1913? Her exclamation, very early on, "I'm so happy!" That summed up the entire diary for me. Furthermore, this expression of happiness should, I think, be a great comfort to those of us who still retain fond feelings for Olga as an individual eventually caught up in and destroyed by historical events beyond her control. At least we can take consolation in the fact that prior to World War I, Olga Nikolaevna was a very happy and seemingly well-adjusted young woman, someone who took great pleasure in her life and in the ordinary pleasures of those around her.
Maybe foolish question - who is "Aunt Minnie?" And "Trina" I'm assuming is a governess or lady-in-waiting of some sort.Aunt Minnie is Grand Duchess Maria Georgievna (married to Grand Duke Georgi Mihailovits) and Trina is Yekaterina Schneider, lectrice to the Empress.
And "Aunt Mops"?Nicholas mentions her in his diary as aunt Yevgenia, but I don’t know who she is.
And "Aunt Mops"?Nicholas mentions her in his diary as aunt Yevgenia, but I don’t know who she is.
I received my copy a few days ago and have a hard time putting it down. New question..........why does Olga put a person's name at the beginning of some of the entries? The name is usually right before the date.
that would be just terrific Lisa!
You may be right about Anastasia´s diaries. To me (as to a teenage girl) also seems, she and Maria simply didn´t want their diaries to be read by anyone. After all, they were both in the age when you really start to grasp the world around you, perhaps they wrote down some very personal things and ideas.... And decided that it all would be kept personal....
btw, I considered Empres Alexandra started his entries with birthdays, for example, their last day began as "23th Birthday of Irina..." - if I remember correct. And I would love how GDs knew dates of births of officers...I mean, did they write dates in notebook, or?
What is Olga talking about when she says they did "giant-strides"? It is something that they did when they went ashore during the Standardt cruise. So far I am struck by the simplicity of her and her sisters' lives. Their idea of fun was to go for long walks, pick flowers, just sit and talk, maybe play tennis.........oh, and walk on stilts and do "giant-strides"! I can't imagine young people of today, royal or not, being so tame. It makes me nostalgic.
Raegan Baker, I hope you're reading this thread. For every poster longing for the publication of more of the Grand Duchesses' diaries there are countless others who'd love to read/ and/or buy them. We can't pretend we're a vast mainstream audience whose purchases will make you rich but I hope we're numerous enough to make the translation and publication of more diaries worthwhile.(And surely our immense gratitude counts for something ;)
I agree with rodney, raegan. I ordered olga's diary a few days ago and I will buy all of the others as they come into print also. Your hard work is greatly appreciated.
The boundless patience and love that Olga exhibits for her "Angel Mama" and thanks God when she has had a good day. I always read where Olga was a little tempermental when it came to Alex, but it doesn't appear so far!
I don't think the GARF is willing to give these diaries to be published on a website at all.
Reagan,
You must know, that this was such a wonderfull read. I truly admire your work. And I hope like so many others that one day other diaries would be published of the Romanovs. It was the biggest gift of the year.
Dear Raegan, will this second book be of only Olga Nikolaevna or all the grand duchesses?
Hi Ferah, that is something we are still thinking over. Everything is kind of coming together now, and we are sorting through material and deciding which route to take. It started out being all about Olga, but that might change. I hope to know for certain by early 2009.
I got the book today as an early Christmas gift from my father and I've finished it today as well. It was a great, interesting read.
Thank you very much, Raegan, for all the hard work you put into Olga's 1913 diary and the work you're doing presently which I'm sure will be just as (or more) wonderful.
How long was it? I'm thinking of buying it whenever it comes available on Amazon.
Sometimes people will sell their own stuff on Amazon. But if it doesn't go up, I'll order it from GRB's site.
I belive that AKSH, Shurik and Sh are the same person. Shurik was the nickname for Aleksander Konstantinovits Shvedov. I've only quickly read the diary, but AKSH, Shurik and Sh never seem to be mentioned at the same time. Also AKSH's name day (30 August) is name day for Aleksander. I rest my case :-D
Olga gives AKSH's birthdate as July 25. Does that match with Shvedov?
Dear Raegan, will this second book be of only Olga Nikolaevna or all the grand duchesses?
Hi Ferah, that is something we are still thinking over. Everything is kind of coming together now, and we are sorting through material and deciding which route to take. It started out being all about Olga, but that might change. I hope to know for certain by early 2009.
I have to admit that for me, when I was reading Olga's 1913 diary, the whole issue of her and her sisters' so-called social isolation, which has been such a ubiquitous theme in recent historical works about the imperial family, seemed like a complete mischaracterization of their lives, in no small part because modern commentators read early 20th-century lives as if they should be late-20th century, early 21st-century lives.
The whole notion that the daughters of Nicholas II and Alexandra were "isolated" and cut off from an "active social life" should be thoroughly discredited by the publication of this diary by Raegan Baker.
I'm so glad I stumbled upon this thread, as I had no idea Olga's diary for 1913 was being published. Wonderful news! I'm looking forward to reading it.
We are now leaning more towards it being just Olga's diaries, but we also plan on including things that may help dispel some myths that are floating around about the family's dynamics, etc.
Everything is kind of coming together now, and we are sorting through material and deciding which route to take. It started out being all about Olga, but that might change. I hope to know for certain by early 2009.
We are now leaning more towards it being just Olga's diaries, but we also plan on including things that may help dispel some myths that are floating around about the family's dynamics, etc.
I belive that AKSH, Shurik and Sh are the same person. Shurik was the nickname for Aleksander Konstantinovits Shvedov. I've only quickly read the diary, but AKSH, Shurik and Sh never seem to be mentioned at the same time. Also AKSH's name day (30 August) is name day for Aleksander. I rest my case :-D
Olga gives AKSH's birthdate as July 25. Does that match with Shvedov?
Found Shvedov's birthdate, he was born July 25 1888.
Also I managed to connect names with faces:
(http://i424.photobucket.com/albums/pp329/tian79/Romanov/th_group1916.jpg) (http://s424.photobucket.com/albums/pp329/tian79/Romanov/?action=view¤t=group1916.jpg)
Olga mentions Skvortsov, Shvedov and Zborovsky at least on April 17 and 21. Skvortsov and Shvedov seem to have been regular visitors at Aunt Olga's.
Hi Reagan,
This is Marina Petrov, the translator of the diaries. I am glad you could use my modest efforts on decyphering the diaries. The book seems to be quite a success among the last Romanov Royal family followers. I had no idea there are so many! It makes me happy that all the countless hours spent trying to read Olga's far from perfect handwriting (and sometimes syntax!) were not in vain :) Looks like the readers aren't bored by numerous tennis records and weather reports :)
I really had no idea that the book was being planned since I was commissioned through my friend's translation agency and she told me that the translation was needed for research. I came across the link to this forum on google, quite by chance, so I registered in hopes to get in touch with you.
Can I list this publication in my resume? Please feel free to contact me directly with any questions at marina.petrov@comcast.net. Congratulations on this publication!
Marina
Marina, so good to hear from you! I'm so glad you have given me a way to contact you since it has been so long since this project started. Of course you can use this in your resume. I am going to send you an email because there is much more I want to discuss with you. Everyone should thank you for doing such an amazing job on the translation of this diary.
Also I managed to connect names with faces:
(http://i424.photobucket.com/albums/pp329/tian79/Romanov/th_group1916.jpg) (http://s424.photobucket.com/albums/pp329/tian79/Romanov/?action=view¤t=group1916.jpg)
Olga mentions Skvortsov, Shvedov and Zborovsky at least on April 17 and 21. Skvortsov and Shvedov seem to have been regular visitors at Aunt Olga's.
The idea is to run around the pole in the sling until you're barely touching the ground. The momentum of the sling carries you between strides, so you can take giant, flying leaps.
Is this a book worth having ?
Would you recommend it ?
ok, Thank you.
isn't there any other way to get it? i always pay with my credit card but i can't use paypal..
i brows that bookshop online quite allot because i'm dutch, but i never seen this book for sell on there.
Like others, I want to greatly thank Raegan Baker and Marina Petrov for Olga 's 1913 diary and look forward to more!
Having now finished reading Olga Nikolaievna 's 1913 diary, I feel she certainly cared very much for AKSH and dear S . But imo part of what is driving these relationships is Olga had to have at least the possibility at of an highly charged unscheduled event for her to feel at her best. Olga Nicholaievna loved a surprise , the unexpected. She loved the emotional charge found in such a happening. But Olga Nikolaievna was a Grand Duchess, a royal, and she could basically know where she would be and what she would be doing for years ahead. It seems with maturity, Olga's love of school room pranks gave way to officer flirtations as a means to find some variance . No wonder she was often using those field glasses, looking for the current favortie. Just sighting them was a relief.
No wonder she was often using those field glasses, looking for the current favortie. Just sighting them was a relief.
Field Glasses? Does anyone know of any of her (Olga) pranks?
But I do have a question. Olga sometimes says her mother's heart is 11/2 or 2. What does this mean?
And another question is, is this a rating system the girls came up with or Alexandra?
Could it be 1 and 1/2, and not 11/2? Since 1 and 1/2 is more closer to 2. Simply logical. Perhaps blood pressure, expressed in older system of writing. pulse, heart-beat?
I think the names before the dates stadn for people who came to tea or something liek that...
Ahh. i did notice that, but forgot when i posted. What is an aide-de-camp?it's means a military man there to help a superior officer...or in this case, the royal family
My goodness how complicated! not really, but it is more involved than i thought.
does anyone know who Mary is? she appeared suddenly, wheeling Alexei around in his chair, and was mentioned a bit more, and she, along with Trina, are not mentioned in the characters list. any idea who they are?
I also found it curious that while Olga mentions reading with her mother or Gilliard she never names books or what she thought of themI was just thinking about that the other day as I leafed though her diary. Olga is a reader, as we know, but what she thought of the books, or even which ones is, as you say, missing. It is interesting to read this book. One almost has to read it at least twice to get the full benefit . The first time though, one's ideas about a diary get recalibrated in a way . We are use to " full confessions" in a dairy...what one learns from Olga's reports is read between the lines and found in patterns ..... I do know two of her most important words are " cozy" and " boring" lol!
In the letters Olga wrote to her nieces, reprinted in 25 Chapter of my life, she refers to him as her dear Kukushkin from the beginning of the war. I wonder how aware OTMA was of their aunt`s relationship with Kulikovsky before her second marriage.That's interesting. Seems the war opened that door...and they knew a good deal...at least the big pair. A term like " dear Kukushkin" is serious stuff it seems to me. In a letter to her aunt from captivity , Olga Nikolaievna said she wished they could have a heart to heart talk, but there wasn't the opportunity. One can't help wonder what she wanted to speak to her aunt about.
The week long visit of Rasputin, his wife and daughter Varvara to Livadia during the fall of 1913.Wow I some how missed that, have to go back and look. Olga's idea of a diary is almost as a report.. ..but I find I learn more or can see more every time I read a few entries . I would imagine this diary could be read at any time by others...and that may account for the absence of her decided opinion of others in the family etc. She knows what she thinks. The diary seems more a reminder for her of what she did. Thank you for your very interesting post!
There is one subject upon which she reveals her feelings: her soldier crushes.
There is one subject upon which she reveals her feelings: her soldier crushes.
Yes, this is true, and this is pretty consistent throughout all her diaries, not just 1913. However, she doesn't really "admit" that they are crushes per say, she just says nice things about these guys. :D. Even when she is older, in 1916-17, she uses the same types of words to describe the crushes....
Olga used a language for some passages in the 1913 that was not translated and I wondered if she did that for some privacy.
Is this book published ? No sight of it in the Gilbert website...here you go Eric, http://www.angelfire.com/pa/ImperialRussian/grb/grbpg27.html
Helen, is it known how private the dairies were? Could and would they be read by others?
Well...I wrote my diary, but do not expect other people to see it...Yes Eric, but you aren't a royal...unless there's something you have been keeping from us? ;D lol!
The Little Pair indeed burned their diaries during the captivity at Tobolsk, however the volumes of 1912,1913 and 1916 (of GD Maria Nichoaleivna's diaries) survived. I hope my memory still serves me well.
Eric, Since her letters are terrific (imo) ...I agree with you there. Sarushka , thank you for the wonderful info and quotes .
I´d love to see an edition of OTMAA´s letters. I would buy that no matter how high the prize would be.I couldn't agree more.
There are some of Tatiana's letters in the Louise Mountbatten book...
In the Imperial family, writting a diary was seen as an exercise of style, an exercise to express thoughts and facts in a summarized way, on a regular basis. An exercize of discipline. You will find confirmation of this reading war time correspondance of Nicolas II and Alexandra Feodorovna, at the beginning of 1916, when they discussed the fact that Alexei just began too write a diary. It was really not done to express feelings in an extended way. Think that Maria, Olga (not sure) and Gilliard helped Alexei carry on his diary! Certainly nothing personnal would be written here!
Many Russian letters by OTMA are published in full in Avgusteyshie Sestry Miloserdiya (Royal Sisters of Mercy) (http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/books.html?sku=64), and some excerpts were translated into English for inclusion in A Lifelong Passion (http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/books.html?sku=17), but the grand duchesses' complete letters have never been published all in one place.
Is this -20 F or C?
Thanks Rudy. Didn't know she visited Finland. I read there was disagreement between the Tsar and Finland on its governing. The Dowager Empress was on the side of the Fins.
Any news on this?Like others, I want to greatly thank Raegan Baker and Marina Petrov for Olga 's 1913 diary and look forward to more!
Thanks so much!!! I appreciate it. An announcement about the next book will hopefully be made in early 2010.
Here is a face book account for thier efforts.... lastest updates would be there =)Any news on this?Like others, I want to greatly thank Raegan Baker and Marina Petrov for Olga 's 1913 diary and look forward to more!Thanks so much!!! I appreciate it. An announcement about the next book will hopefully be made in early 2010.
How come none of the other diaries have been published in their entirety? Are there any digital scans of these on the web?
Looking forward to that. I wonder if the other sisters (like Tatiana & Maria's) would be translated too ?
I would love to see what we have of the girl's diaries published side by side on a page for a given date.
It would be interesting how each described the same day and events . I do hope to see Marie's someday
but the rest (1914-17) are in the works.
Three Maria's diaries exists -- 1912,1913 and 1916 volume.
Three Maria's diaries exists -- 1912,1913 and 1916 volume.
Just curious how you know that these particular 3 years of Marie's diaries exist... Thanks!
Three Maria's diaries exists -- 1912,1913 and 1916 volume.
Just curious how you know that these particular 3 years of Marie's diaries exist... Thanks!
See page 10 of Royal Sisters of Mercy (http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/books.html?sku=64).
Lacking access to Royal Sisters Of Mercy I have to assume the idea is that it mentions that Maria's diaries for those years exist and are presumably where? GARF?
Lacking access to Royal Sisters Of Mercy I have to assume the idea is that it mentions that Maria's diaries for those years exist and are presumably where? GARF?
Sorry, didn't mean to be cagey.
Yes, that's correct. Royal Sisters of Mercy lists all the diaries of Olga, Tatiana, and Maria that are held at GARF. None of Anastasia's are known to have survived. I believe Georgiy originally posted the full list, but I don't recall what thread it's on.
The book "August Sisters of Mercy" has in the introduction information about what GARF has in its archives by the Grand Duchesses. About the diaries, the information is as follows:Thanks a lot to Georgiy! But I now see that Sarushka quotes the same on the 1st page of this thread.
Olga: 12 diaries from 1905 - 1917, with the 1910 volume missing. The first entry on 01/01/05 begins "I was at Church with Mama and Papa." Olga's last diary entry was on 15/03/17.
Tatiana: 9 diaries from 1907 - 1916, with the 1911 one missing. The last entry is on 24/10/16. The exercise book she used for a diary for the rest of the year and into 1917, apparantly, she destroyed.
Maria: 3 diaries: 1912, 1913 and 1916.
Anastasia: No diaries. All appear to have been destroyed or lost. There are however some of her exercise books, compositions, drawings, letters etc.
All 4 of course have photo albums and photos in the archives, too.
Thanks. I actually do have "Sisters...", but I haven't read the entire book yet... I was basically loosely going by one of Nicholas's diary entries where he wrote that Marie and Anastasia burned their diaries... He specifically mentioned the two girls. I wonder what made Marie keep those 3 notebooks and burn the rest.
Possibly she was only able to burn her current diary. That is, there's a good chance that her three earlier ones simply weren't at hand, as in storage perhaps. There wasn't really time oropportunity to organise a proper bonfire, which might have been pretty big, or suspicious. Or, equally possible, she may have felt, rightly, that the earlier diaries would be seen as less 'incriminating' for her parents, at least as opposed to a 1917 one which might have included things about the war, political unrest, etc.
I can't remember off hand, but I am pretty certain some of Maria's diary from 1916 is published in Sisters of Mercy.
What is "The Sisters of Mercy" and how does one get to read it?
Another roadblock for those who did not read Russian.
As I mentioned in a prior post on this thread, IMO the girls' pre-1917 diaries were likely packed in crates in the outside storage sheds, as Nicholas and Alexandra's were. They probably only burned what was immediately at hand: the 1917 & 1918 volumes.
Most likely. I think the girls diary and letters would reveal what they thought about other members of the Romanov Family.
As I mentioned in a prior post on this thread, IMO the girls' pre-1917 diaries were likely packed in crates in the outside storage sheds, as Nicholas and Alexandra's were. They probably only burned what was immediately at hand: the 1917 & 1918 volumes.
That makes total sense. So as far as we know none of the post-1916 diaries of the two girls survived?
From Greg King's book, it was suggested that she was "violated" on the train...Why does than not surprise me? I guess that was after the Rus suggestion.
From Greg King's book, it was suggested that she was "violated" on the train...
The one about the end of the Romanovs. It might be too painful a chapter for Olga to write in her diary.
I know Olga's diary stops abruptly on 15 March 1917, but there's one thing that's not clear to me: did she simply stop making entries after the revolution, or were the post-revolutionary pages removed from the diary?
I don't read Russian, so I put one of the earlier links to 1917 diaries/letters into Google Translate (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Femalkrest.narod.ru%2Ftxt%2Fdet17.htm) At the bottom of the page is Olga's last entry and then:
"The last entry, then ripped out pages of the diary."
Did Sisters of Mercy mention this?
From Greg King's book, it was suggested that she was "violated" on the train...Why does than not surprise me? I guess that was after the Rus suggestion.
author=Janet Ashton link=topic=11769.msg498584#msg498584 date=1321826869]
Sorry?
So I'm alluding to a history of assault suggestions based on next to nothing ...which I suggest is to juice up the text .
Which book has the allusion to GDs Sergei and Dmitry? I'm unaware of that one.
Which book has the allusion to GDs Sergei and Dmitry? I'm unaware of that one......] Actually, please don't answer that here -- we're straying off topic.the question was asked and remains here on this thread...the answer is
I know Olga's diary stops abruptly on 15 March 1917, but there's one thing that's not clear to me: did she simply stop making entries after the revolution, or were the post-revolutionary pages removed from the diary?
Which book has the allusion to GDs Sergei and Dmitry? I'm unaware of that one......] Actually, please don't answer that here -- we're straying off topic.the question was asked and remains here on this thread...the answer is
"The Court of the Last Tsar: Pomp, Power and Pageantry in the Reign of Nicholas II "
page 80
move it all where you will =)
I don't read Russian, so I put one of the earlier links to 1917 diaries/letters into Google Translate (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Femalkrest.narod.ru%2Ftxt%2Fdet17.htm) At the bottom of the page is Olga's last entry and then:
"The last entry, then ripped out pages of the diary."
Which book has the allusion to GDs Sergei and Dmitry? I'm unaware of that one......] Actually, please don't answer that here -- we're straying off topic.the question was asked and remains here on this thread...the answer is
"The Court of the Last Tsar: Pomp, Power and Pageantry in the Reign of Nicholas II "
page 80
move it all where you will =)
I did not know about it because i don't have the book; but i remembered that also Kurth mentioned the rumor about the train rape (not only for poor Olga: for all three of them) in Tsar: the lost world, page 190 in my tranlslated edition. But he points out it was a rumor - as Bless said, maybe this idea came from the Rus rumors.Which book has the allusion to GDs Sergei and Dmitry? I'm unaware of that one......] Actually, please don't answer that here -- we're straying off topic.the question was asked and remains here on this thread...the answer is
"The Court of the Last Tsar: Pomp, Power and Pageantry in the Reign of Nicholas II "
page 80
move it all where you will =)
Olga's "alleged" train rape was in Greg King's last book before the Anastasia/ Anna Anderson book.
I did not know about it because i don't have the book; but i remembered that also Kurth mentioned the rumor about the train rape (not only for poor Olga: for all three of them) in Tsar: the lost world, page 190 in my tranlslated edition. But he points out it was a rumor - as Bless said, maybe this idea came from the Rus rumors.Which book has the allusion to GDs Sergei and Dmitry? I'm unaware of that one......] Actually, please don't answer that here -- we're straying off topic.the question was asked and remains here on this thread...the answer is
"The Court of the Last Tsar: Pomp, Power and Pageantry in the Reign of Nicholas II "
page 80
move it all where you will =)
" the poster named "BlessOTMA"lol That strikes me as funny....however you slice and dice it....made up sexual assault would seem to be needed for modern publication...and a number of authors are ready to provide....Indeed, in FOTR on pages 140-141, King and Wilson work mightly to create the impression there was rape ....amazing how the attacking soldiers some how missed all the jewels in the girl's corsets .
" the poster named "BlessOTMA"lol That strikes me as funny....however you slice and dice it....made up sexual assault would seem to be needed for modern publication...and a number of authors are ready to provide....Indeed, in FOTR on pages 140-141, King and Wilson work mightly to create the impression there was rape ....amazing how the attacking soldiers some how missed all the jewels in the girl's corsets .
That is very confusing if Greg King started to poke holes in the arguments in his books. He definitely implied that in "The Fate of The Romanovs". Both Olga's alleged "assault" on the train and Marie's alleged "flirtation" that caused the family to ignore her during the last days were dynamite revelations in that book. If he did tell you Janet that he does not believe what he wrote, he lost my respect for him as a researcher. That to me is a very serious flaw...
Oh hell - it has to be said, "BlessOTMA" - it seems you've a lot more interest in sexual assault than anyone you want to twit with that accusation.Well Janet, if that's how Greg feels about it, then imo that makes the pages of whipped up innuendo in FOTR about it even more questionable. He works quite hard to put the idea across imo. Where did I say I didn't believe you? What I believe is my own eyes reading FOTR and then expressing an opinion about it. What I was laughing at earlier was simply you referring to me as " the poster called blessOTMA, " ( which I quoted so it would be clear that's what it was ) instead of simply addressing me... the thrid person treatment was unexpectedly hostile and therefore, amusing.
Greg said it right out to me, sometime in October 2001: "I don't think any actual assault took place". I personally don't know if he's right or wrong, but it was his view. But if you prefer not to believe me - so be it. Never let it be said that you make things easy for yourself when you're in a hole.
Janet
I think you are taking a jokey comment a bit too seriously. This Forum is for serious and informed discussion, but we can still have a bit of light relief now and then, and are able to distinguish between the serious and the jokey.
Ann
when TN returned to thier daily life after recovering from typhoid, ON says on March 23rd "she's grown considerably taller" .
that is amazing...particularly as TN was 16 at this time ( early 1913) and one would think she had gained her full height...perhaps TN would not have been as tall as she was if she hadn't gotten typhoid at this time? But I never heard of that effect of a fever, thanks for the info.when TN returned to thier daily life after recovering from typhoid, ON says on March 23rd "she's grown considerably taller" .Yep, it often happens, even if when we're not children anymore! In the dialect of my region this is called "crescentin" (from "crescere" = to grow) and it means that kind of fever or illness that makes you taller, like it helps you go on growing, LOL.
Alas, it never worked on me. I'm short and i remained short. Uuuuh i WANT olga's diary. I want my copy! Xmas is near ^^I think you will enjoy it. But reread it now and then, it's amazing how things seem to not be there before...in the middle of who was at tea and Alix's health reports, there is often a very interesting line.
Nicholas personally packed all of his previous diaries into a crate upon his departure from Tsarskoe Selo, and IMO they were never unpacked -- he repeatedly expressed concern about that crate as well as another crate of papers belonging to Alexandra when the guards began pilfering the IF's belongings from the shed in Ekaterinburg. So I think it's likely that the bulk of the girls' diaries were similarly packed away.
Maria's 1914 & 1915 diaries could have been lost or stolen. As I recall, Aleksei's 1918 diary was found at the home of one of the guards...
Marina Petrov is a professional translator I hired when I return to the United States after my first trip to Russia in 2005. During my first trip to GARF, I made copies of some of the family’s diaries and letters (as well as other documents) and came to the decision to publish Grand Duchess Olga’s 1913 diary in order to give people a glimpse into the private life of the family. After the translation of the diary was completed, I did the editing, wrote the introduction and included an explanation of the Russian calendar in 1913, as well as a list of people Olga wrote about in her diary and their relation to her.
I want to thank everyone who has sent me private messages of congratulations. I do apologize to the people I have not yet gotten back to. Life has been kind of hectic lately, so I am taking a much needed vacation soon. Also, thanks to the people who knew about this project of mine long before it was ever mentioned here on the forum. Your words of encouragement and interest in the book were so kind. Yes, that includes you Teddy! Thank you!
Warm in the heart maybe ? In Russia it is very cold, so 20 maybe warm in comparison...
In Russia at the time they were using the Reaumur scale, at which freezing point is 0 and boiling point 80.
According to wikipedia, you convert Reaumur to celsius by multiplying the temperature by 5/4 and to fahrenheit by multiplying by 9/5 and adding 32.
20 reaumur is therefore 25 celsius, so decidedly warm!
Ann
Inok Nikolai
Many thanks. I do, however, distinctly remember seeing an extract from Alexei's diary a good few years ago, where he went swimming and gave the water temperature. The commentary made it clear thar reaumur was meant, and this has stuck in my head because it was the first time I had ever heard of it.
Be that as it may, 20 Fahrenheit is below freezing, 20 Celsius is warm (pleasant summer temperature for Brits), and 20 reaumur hot (for a Brit anyway - we are currently getting 25-25 Celsius and most of us are feeling the heat!).
Ann
Inok Nikolai
Many thanks. I do, however, distinctly remember seeing an extract from Alexei's diary a good few years ago, where he went swimming and gave the water temperature. The commentary made it clear thar reaumur was meant, and this has stuck in my head because it was the first time I had ever heard of it.
Ann
In order to share more information on this whole topic of temperatures, I am going to open a new thread "Temperature Scales in NAOTMAA’s Letters and Diaries” under the board “Their World and Culture”, q.v.
Inok Nikolai