Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => Alexandra Feodorovna => Topic started by: yolanda on September 22, 2008, 05:11:02 AM

Title: Where is Alexandra's coronation dress?
Post by: yolanda on September 22, 2008, 05:11:02 AM
Hello All  :)

Can anyone tell me any information about Alexandra's coronation dress , did it survive the revolution. 
 Also if anyone has picture's of the dress, that you would like to share with me...it would be much appreciated..

Kindest Regards

Yolanda
Title: Re: Where is Alexandra's coronation dress?
Post by: Thomas_Hesse on September 22, 2008, 07:43:24 AM

The dress has survived indeed! It is in a museum in Moscow as far as I know. There is a photo of it in that forum.... don't recall where. It is golden and from the times when she was still quite slender :)
Title: Re: Where is Alexandra's coronation dress?
Post by: Sarushka on September 22, 2008, 08:10:41 AM
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Art%20and%20Letters/th_AF1896cloak.jpg) (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Art%20and%20Letters/AF1896cloak.jpg)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Art%20and%20Letters/th_AF1896.jpg) (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Art%20and%20Letters/AF1896.jpg)

Title: Re: Where is Alexandra's coronation dress?
Post by: Michael HR on September 22, 2008, 08:39:35 AM
Fabulous to know that it survived the revolution when so much else was lost. I really have to go to Russia as there is so much to see and my trip get longer every time I see information on the forum.
Title: Re: Where is Alexandra's coronation dress?
Post by: Lisa on September 22, 2008, 11:01:32 AM

The dress has survived indeed! It is in a museum in Moscow as far as I know.
In the Armoury Museum in the Kremlin in Moscow, with all other Russian  regalia and coronations gowns of the Emperors/Empresses...
Title: Re: Where is Alexandra's coronation dress?
Post by: tom_romanov on September 22, 2008, 12:53:37 PM
would Alexandra's weight at the coronation be the same as when she died? because i think with all the stress she was under at both events?

thanks
tom
Title: Re: Where is Alexandra's coronation dress?
Post by: yolanda on September 22, 2008, 06:46:48 PM
 :) Wow, thank you for the pictures Sarushka, it's great to see the dress survived and its been preserved in a museum, Alexandra looks stunning in the bottom left  picture, with her glorious jewels, she was truly a beautiful Empress... looking closely at the pictures  that Sarushka posted, they look like two different dresses.....by far they look like the same dress, just the three strips of gold lace missing down the front of the dress, hummmmmmmmm,   ... Also does anyone know if  there any paintings commissioned of the day ??

 She was young and slender at the time of the coronation but I think around the time she died Tom, she would have been thin as the family would have been on food rations and limited exercise, and like you said Tom, the stress Alexandra would have been under ( one can only imagine). The pictures I have seen from around that time, she looked like she had given up with her health more worried about her children, but I cant see Alexandra being the same weight as when she was coronated.

I'm going to Russia, one day!  :)
Title: Re: Where is Alexandra's coronation dress?
Post by: tom_romanov on September 23, 2008, 11:45:10 AM
thanks yolanda  :)
Title: Re: Where is Alexandra's coronation dress?
Post by: Thomas_Hesse on September 24, 2008, 02:46:51 AM
But to be honest: the gown she is wearing in the litography of the coronation lokks totally different from the actualy dress. Perhaps the one in the museum is the wedding dress?
The coronation gown seems to be white with only some golden lines on it. The other one is completely golden?
Title: Re: Where is Alexandra's coronation dress?
Post by: Padawan Ryan on September 24, 2008, 05:59:41 AM
I was thinking the same thing. Although Alix was very slender at the time, I believe the coronation did not take place until 1896, meaning she would have already given birth to Olga. The gold dress looks too tiny to hold the body of a woman who's given birth. Of course, sometimes women loose their weight from babies quickly, but even so. It also does not look as regal, and considering the wedding was obviously a little more private than the coronation, there would be less reason to look absolutely regal.
Title: Re: Where is Alexandra's coronation dress?
Post by: tom_romanov on September 24, 2008, 11:23:38 AM
hmm  that would make sense Thomas_Hesse & Brittany Catherine.

the wedding dress was described as 'silver tissue' and Alix would've worn fake ringlets. so this could picture could be of the wedding ( the one one sarushka posted before- "http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f295/tom_romanov/AF1896cloak.jpg". it also lloks like she's waering the nuptial crown
Title: Re: Where is Alexandra's coronation dress?
Post by: Lisa on September 27, 2008, 06:38:25 AM
I do not agree with you... I saw the dress in real, it's is not so tiny. The dress is made of brocade, silver and golden threads, beads and lace. Moreover, the museum keeps the bill for this dress and it's really the coronation dress. There was a competition for the design of the dress (I has a link to a Russian page, but I lost it... and I don't know if it still exists...)
In my opinion, this is the drawing which is "fake", it's based on the painting by Galkin about 1894-95: http://s202.photobucket.com/albums/aa86/Lisettelacousette/Robe%20de%20cour%20russe/?action=view&current=1894Galkin_AlexandraFedorovn.jpg

The same dress as in the famous session: http://s202.photobucket.com/albums/aa86/Lisettelacousette/Robe%20de%20cour%20russe/?action=view&current=1894CAlix1.jpg



Here is a portrait of Alix in her coronation dress:
http://s202.photobucket.com/albums/aa86/Lisettelacousette/Robe%20de%20cour%20russe/?action=view&current=1895cMakovskiyK_PtAleksFed1A620.jpg
Title: Re: Where is Alexandra's coronation dress?
Post by: tom_romanov on September 27, 2008, 02:22:52 PM
oh  :-[ thanks for clearing that up Lisa  :)
Title: Re: Where is Alexandra's coronation dress?
Post by: Robert_Hall on September 27, 2008, 03:19:44 PM
I agree with Lisa, as I have seen it as well. The metals are a bit tarnished from age, but it is recognisable. The 1903 Ball costume is also on display in the Kremlin.
 I think the wedding dress is kept at the Hermitage, but only on display  in a rotation. The fabrics, although costly, are very fragile and sensitive to light, dust, temp. etc. It is a tribute to the curators who  preserved them through all the turmoil of the past century.
Title: Re: Where is Alexandra's coronation dress?
Post by: Halinka on October 02, 2008, 08:01:49 PM
I have a picture of the dress at the mesuam if anyone want's to see it -sweat-
Title: Re: Where is Alexandra's coronation dress?
Post by: gogm on October 02, 2008, 08:21:13 PM
Please post it...
Title: Re: Where is Alexandra's coronation dress?
Post by: yolanda on October 05, 2008, 10:13:38 PM
I would love to see your picture of the coronation dress Halinka,  :)
Title: Re: Where is Alexandra's coronation dress?
Post by: Ally Kumari on October 14, 2008, 11:21:00 AM
Just found this.... could it be?

(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/th_81fc6d8dd461.jpg) (http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/81fc6d8dd461.jpg)
Title: Re: Where is Alexandra's coronation dress?
Post by: Lisa on October 14, 2008, 11:52:44 AM
No, it's Maria Feodorovna's dress. Made in Russia, 1856, silver brocarde, silver embroderies.


(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Art%20and%20Letters/th_AF1896cloak.jpg) (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Art%20and%20Letters/AF1896cloak.jpg)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Art%20and%20Letters/th_AF1896.jpg) (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Art%20and%20Letters/AF1896.jpg)




Sarushka already posted it.I scanned the picture and delete the background myself for my master report.
Title: Re: Where is Alexandra's coronation dress?
Post by: Ally Kumari on October 14, 2008, 11:55:30 AM
Thank you Lisa.
But still it seems to me the dress Sarushka posted doesn´t look much like the one in the painting.
Title: Re: Where is Alexandra's coronation dress?
Post by: Lisa on October 14, 2008, 12:02:32 PM
Well, It is a painting!
And I saw the dress with by own eyes: it's indeed silver brocade embroidered with silver thread! I studied it for my report, I saw a photograph of the bill. Moreover, you could not see in detail the dress in the painting, exepct that it was silver! You could not judge only by this painting.
Here is another picture of the dress in the museum:
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa86/Lisettelacousette/Robe%20de%20cour%20russe/8009.jpg)
It's the same posted by Sarushka: look carefully at the embroideries designs...
Title: Re: Where is Alexandra's coronation dress?
Post by: Ally Kumari on October 14, 2008, 12:06:27 PM
OK :) I give up. It´s probably the missing buttons that concerned me....
Title: Re: Where is Alexandra's coronation dress?
Post by: Lisa on October 14, 2008, 12:10:36 PM
The front buttons are often fake buttons on Russian court dress: it was jewelry brooches (diamonds, pearls). You can clearly see it on the dress worn by Alix in 1906 for the Duma (the withe dress with golden embroideries).
http://www.freewebs.com/empress-alexandra/album2/website/images/104_png.jpg
http://www.freewebs.com/empress-alexandra/album2/website/images/105_jpg.jpg
Title: Re: Where is Alexandra's coronation dress?
Post by: gogm on October 17, 2008, 04:32:47 PM
No, it's Maria Feodorovna's dress. Made in Russia, 1856, silver brocarde, silver embroderies.


(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Art%20and%20Letters/th_AF1896cloak.jpg) (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Art%20and%20Letters/AF1896cloak.jpg)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Art%20and%20Letters/th_AF1896.jpg) (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Art%20and%20Letters/AF1896.jpg)



Is this Maria Feodorovna's dress or Maria Alexandrovna's dress? Alexandra Feodorovna's mantle appears to be in the background.


Sarushka already posted it.I scanned the picture and delete the background myself for my master report.
Title: Re: Where is Alexandra's coronation dress?
Post by: Lisa on October 18, 2008, 10:04:42 AM
This is the dress of Alexandra. This mantel was made in 1896 for the coronation.
Title: Re: Where is Alexandra's coronation dress?
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on October 01, 2009, 02:18:15 PM
Can you post the photo of the silver dress again? It's really beautiful, thanks for the first pair
of photos :-)
Title: Re: Where is Alexandra's coronation dress?
Post by: katmaxoz on October 02, 2009, 07:01:36 AM
Just found this.... could it be?

(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/th_81fc6d8dd461.jpg) (http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/81fc6d8dd461.jpg)


This picture above is empress Marie Feodrovna's coronation dress. The embroidery design is different from Alexandra's dress and Marie was even more slender than Alexandra at her coronation. I saw Alexandra's coronation dress many years ago at an exhbiton and it really stuck in my mind how small Russians in general were in the period (I also saw another exhibition on russian dress at the same time & all those dresses were similar in size to N&A). One detail I vividly remember about Alexandra's dress was all the small pearls that were embrodered in among the silver fabric and embroidery. It was a detail that you never picked up in photos because so many pictures are overall shots and don't give you close ups of the embroidery work. 

These dresses were usually made so that the skirt sat seperate from the top of the dress which you put on seperatley and down the center from the brestbone to the floor ran a ribbon which you attached diamond buttons or broches.  The coronation dresses with their silver-gilt fabrics were very similar to the imperial wedding dresses (and these were famously made by madame Olga Bulbenkova in St Petersburg - I wouldn't be surprised if she made Alex's coronation dress too) and Romanov memoirs make it very clear how heavy these dresses were. It took skill to walk in them an not topple over with the train and they tended to leave horrible bruising on the shoulders from the sheer weight of the fabric and that's before you get to the tiaras which induced headaches and the diamonds scattered all over the place:) They look georgous, but I don't think I could wear one for long:)

The pictures below are of Alex's dress - if you look at them you should be able to see the difference from Marie's which has a kind of feathery design where alexandra's has swirling circles.


(http://inlinethumb13.webshots.com/35916/2574207700102753164S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2574207700102753164NVIHYY)


(http://inlinethumb11.webshots.com/42506/2410419210102753164S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2410419210102753164mzAeoD)


(http://inlinethumb45.webshots.com/37356/2191792230102753164S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2191792230102753164LIvrYc)







Title: Re: Where is Alexandra's coronation dress?
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on October 02, 2009, 12:50:14 PM
Thank you  katmaxoz for the photos, they let to appreciate the details of the dress, is really beautiful
and elegant, she must looked very beautiful wearing it. Do you know who designed it?
Title: Re: Where is Alexandra's coronation dress?
Post by: Twobsbob on October 02, 2009, 01:47:04 PM
I saw the coronation dresses a few years ago, and was struck by how ridiculously small Minnie's waist was.  Obviously, she would have been tightly corseted, but it is still extremely small by today's standards.  Alexandra's dress didn't appear as unnaturally small around the waist.
Title: Re: Where is Alexandra's coronation dress?
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on October 02, 2009, 02:04:10 PM
I saw the coronation dresses a few years ago, and was struck by how ridiculously small Minnie's waist was.  Obviously, she would have been tightly corseted, but it is still extremely small by today's standards.  Alexandra's dress didn't appear as unnaturally small around the waist.
Do you know the measures of Marie Feodorovna's waist?
Title: Re: Where is Alexandra's coronation dress?
Post by: Ally Kumari on October 02, 2009, 03:41:18 PM
I saw the coronation dresses a few years ago, and was struck by how ridiculously small Minnie's waist was.  Obviously, she would have been tightly corseted, but it is still extremely small by today's standards.  Alexandra's dress didn't appear as unnaturally small around the waist.

One would think she grew "bigger" after children... at the time of her coronation she already had them all...... while Alix only one.
Title: Re: Where is Alexandra's coronation dress?
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on October 05, 2009, 06:52:16 PM
I think that Alix was a little bit plumper than Marie Feodorovna. Anyway the corsete changed completely
the measures of the ladies, imagine someone with waists of 50 centimeters!!! That's a very small waist! Of course
not natural
Title: Re: Where is Alexandra's coronation dress?
Post by: Pilgrim on January 03, 2010, 01:02:51 PM
(http://s15.radikal.ru/i188/1001/41/96dc2f5dbb0e.jpg) (http://www.radikal.ru)
 The style of the dress was approved by Nickolas I (1834) as a court dress style.
The "creation" of the coronation dress started 1 year before coronation. The brocade for the dress was produced by Moscow company of Sapozhnikov brothers[ (A.and V. Sapozhnikovi) /b].
From Moscow  the material was sent to St.Petersburg to Madame Olga Bulbenkova firm (official dressmaker for Russian court). Olga Bulbenkova made patterns, wich were sent  to Moscow to the nuns of Ivanov Monastery in Kremlin. The nuns embroidered the patterns and sent them back to St.Petersburg for last "assembling".
The dress consists of 3 parts (the total weight of the coronation dress is 10 kg (appx.20 pounds))
The embroidery design was done by Maria Ermolova (maid of honor), she was an expert of embroidery art. By the way Aleksandra and Nickolai select her design from offered 3 designs.They didn't know the name of author, because Maria Ermolova offered it as anonymos.
All process of creation of Coronation Set for Aleksandra was under control of Maria Ermolova also.
(http://s48.radikal.ru/i120/1001/80/ce2317d51690.jpg) (http://www.radikal.ru)  (http://s04.radikal.ru/i177/1001/09/23f53fdb4459.jpg) (http://www.radikal.ru)




The shoes were made by Ivan Egorov's shoe store from the same brocade.

(http://s44.radikal.ru/i106/1001/cb/b795d5fa1f2e.jpg) (http://www.radikal.ru)



The coronation robe-mantle's ("PORFIRA") weight is 13 kg (26 pounds) is the same as Nikolai's and Maria Fedorovna's was made from light gold brocade with ermine on silk lining. 7 persons should help to keep this robe, for this case there were done 7 special "handles" on the lining. It was very hard to keep the robe and the train of the dress at the same time!!!
(http://s47.radikal.ru/i116/1001/78/5abdf8d137dc.jpg) (http://www.radikal.ru)
Title: Re: Where is Alexandra's coronation dress?
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on January 05, 2010, 01:20:47 PM
I have never sawn her shoes before, what is written inside of them?
i've never imagined that it was so heavy!!! :-O
Title: Re: Where is Alexandra's coronation dress?
Post by: Pilgrim on January 05, 2010, 04:57:58 PM
It is just a logo of shoe store of Ivan Egorov. He was working very close with dressmaker Olga Bulbenkova' firm. And was making shoes for her clients as a set to the dress. And very often there were 2 names inside the shoes - "Madame Oldga and Ivan Egorov" as on the photo.
Title: Re: Where is Alexandra's coronation dress?
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on January 06, 2010, 11:51:34 AM
Thanks for the information Pilgrim ;-)
Title: Re: Where is Alexandra's coronation dress?
Post by: Pilgrim on January 11, 2010, 09:06:25 AM
You are welcome! :)
Title: Re: Where is Alexandra's coronation dress?
Post by: katmaxoz on January 16, 2010, 04:26:45 AM
What interesting information on the robes Pilgirm. Thank you very much for sharing it. I don't suposse you have a pattern for the dress?  I've never seen a pattern for a court dress though I did see one being put on a model in the Grand Duchess Olga documentry.

Title: Re: Where is Alexandra's coronation dress?
Post by: Tasia on January 16, 2010, 06:47:38 AM
I have never sawn her shoes before, what is written inside of them?
i've never imagined that it was so heavy!!! :-O
Ugh... Me neither, poor Alexandra...
Just has beauty on it @_@
Thanks, Pilgrim
Title: Re: Where is Alexandra's coronation dress?
Post by: Alexander1917 on January 16, 2010, 10:18:32 AM
That's why Alexandra said, "I was pinned to the ground."
Title: Re: Where is Alexandra's coronation dress?
Post by: Tasia on January 16, 2010, 10:26:44 AM
That's why Alexandra said, "I was pinned to the ground."
Lol ^^'''
Title: Re: Where is Alexandra's coronation dress?
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on January 18, 2010, 12:59:28 PM
I would think the same than Alexandra in the same situation :-S
Title: Re: Where is Alexandra's coronation dress?
Post by: kamlowsky on February 03, 2010, 11:04:10 PM
This is an absolutely exquisite thread. The craftmanship is phenomenal.  Such expertise these artistisans had to create such masterpieces of elegance.  The shoes are timeless. I could wear the style today.  Thank you for such an informative thread.