Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => The Final Chapter => Topic started by: Teddy on October 08, 2004, 11:09:31 AM

Title: Captivity photo's
Post by: Teddy on October 08, 2004, 11:09:31 AM
I saw once a photograph that was taken in Siberie of the Imperial family, sitting against a hedge in the garden.  Why was this photograph taken?  Does anyone has this photograph have?  
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: RomanovFan on October 11, 2004, 07:58:03 PM
Quote
I saw once a photograph that was taken in Siberie of the Imperial family, sitting against a hedge in the garden.  Why was this photograph taken?  Does anyone has this photograph have?  


I know which photo you're talking about....there was also another one taken of the family in Sibera. It was of them sitting on what looked like the roof of a house but it couldn't have been.... Anastasia and I think Olga had their dogs sitting in their laps in the photo. There is a link to a whole bunch of pictures of the Romanovs on this board. I'll look and see if I can find them, then I'll post the link for you. :)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Robert_Hall on October 11, 2004, 08:12:30 PM
It was indeed a roof. There is another picture of Nicholas chopping wood, with the same roof in the background.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: RomanovFan on October 11, 2004, 08:28:20 PM
Quote
It was indeed a roof. There is another picture of Nicholas chopping wood, with the same roof in the background.


I thought so...just wasn't sure. Thanks for clearing that up. :)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Teddy on December 13, 2004, 04:23:09 AM
Does still nobody haves this above mentioned photo? The photo were the people is sitting with their backs at a hedge? And what the purpose was of this photo taken?
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: ferngully on January 16, 2005, 03:25:53 PM
i know which photo you mean (they are sitting on the roof)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v313/magilune/roof.bmp
but the hedge one i don't know about
selina                      xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Georgiy on January 23, 2005, 08:31:18 PM
Here are a couple of photos from when they were in captivity in Tsarskoe Selo.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/Georgiy/Nastiaandsis.jpg)

Anastasia and Tatiana (? I think)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/Georgiy/TSSelo.jpg)

Looks like Maria and Alexei.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Lanie on January 23, 2005, 09:02:36 PM
2nd photo is Tatiana and Alexei.  I've got a larger copy somewhere. :)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Georgiy on January 23, 2005, 09:21:23 PM
If you find it could you post it? The one I posted is a grainy TV image :(
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Lanie on January 23, 2005, 09:45:19 PM
I'm in the middle of re-scanning a bunch of stuff so when I get to it I will.  I saw it in Gilliard's book I believe... I've got it somewhere!!
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: James1941 on January 29, 2005, 07:04:56 PM
The last photograph of any member of the Imperial family that has surfaced to my knowledge is one taken on board the steamer Rus taking the tsarevich and the three grandduchess plus their retinue to the rail station in Tiumen. It is a rather dark photo showing Olga sitting in the background with Alexei in an army great coat sitting in front and turning toward the camera.
I could be wrong but I think that is the last photo of the family.
There is also a "last photo" taken in Tobolsk after the Tsar, Alexandra and Marie had been taken away which shows Alexei in bed in his pajamas and he is mugging for the camera by holding up his hands and splaying his fingers.
Perhaps the soviets in Ekaterinburg took photos which are in some archive somewhere and undiscovered, or they could have been destroyed.
If I am wrong about the photos I will stand corrected.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Georgiy on January 31, 2005, 03:26:55 PM
There is also a photo of Tatiana and Anastasia on the Rus going to Ekaterinburg, from the same time as the one of Olga and Alexei.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Teddy on January 31, 2005, 03:28:18 PM
I've seen a picture of Anastasia on the Rus. I Know it almost 4 sure.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Georgiy on January 31, 2005, 03:33:15 PM
There's also a photo of Alexandra and 2 daughters on a balcony, which lots of books say is Tobolsk 1918 and is the 'last photo'. I am pretty certain it's not 1918 - they are dressed far too lightly for any time that they were in Tobolsk in 1918, also the clothes look quite different from what we are accustomed to seeing them wear in the last year or so of their lives. Maybe it is Tobolsk, not long after they got there in late summer 1917. Anyone else (who knows the photo) have any ideas?
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: felix on January 31, 2005, 04:27:06 PM
In"The End of the Romanovs" 1966, Victor Alexandrov. There are alot of  Tobolsk pictures. Some photos in the book appear wrong, alot are right.  In some the girls are wearing summer dresses.  Its worth seeing.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Georgiy on January 31, 2005, 04:50:22 PM
In that book, one of the photos of O and T, saying they took their fancy clothes with them, looks more like 1913 or 1914 than 1917....
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: felix on January 31, 2005, 05:37:15 PM
Thats why I said some photos appear wrong. If you look at the background you wonder if they were right ?  I think you mean plate 25 , it could be the balcony at Tobolsk, not saying it is. The pictures of Marie N.  are very nice.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: BobAtchison on January 31, 2005, 06:16:42 PM
I have seen pictures of Nicholas at Livadia and at the Nizhni Dvoretz which are labeled Yekaterinburg and Tobolsk.  I wonder how these authors figured they had the identofication of the pictures right - perhaps they were guesses on their part.

I think in Alexandrov's book he mislabels a picture of Alix stilling on Nicholas desk at Stavka as Tsarskoe selo and isn't there a picture called an "Ipatiev" bedroom which is really a room in the school at Alapayesk?  I don't have this book so I don't remember exactly.

Let's not forget Peter Kurth has a picture of the carts waiting Nicholas, Alix, Marie and the others outside the Governor's Mansion in Tobolsk in his book Tsar.  I think this was taken by Gibbes.

Bob
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Lanie on January 31, 2005, 06:44:33 PM
Alexandrov's book is AWFUL with the photos!  They misidentify the girls, the location, etc.  ie Maria in 1918 - it's Tatiana in 1913!  It's so sad.  And the text is just as bad...
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Georgiy on January 31, 2005, 06:46:56 PM
Yes, that book is rather poorly written. As for the photos, it would interesting to see how many out of how many are accurately labelled!

It would be like my saying my present avatar is of Anastasia and the Empress taken on the balcony of the Governor's Mansion, Tobolsk, 1918.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Elisabeth on February 04, 2005, 05:09:32 PM
Does anyone have a good, clear reproduction of the photograph of Olga, Alexei and Anastasia in Tobolsk that is given as Photo No. 6 in the Sokolov Report? Olga stands to the left of a swingset, Alexei is in the middle, on the swing, and Anastasia is on the right. There is also a man to the very far right but the photo is so dark he is impossible to make out (possibly Dr. Botkin?). At any rate, I haven't seen this photo reproduced anywhere but in reprints of the Sokolov report. And as I said, my copy is too dark to show here (even if I had a scanner, which I don't!).
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Abby on February 04, 2005, 09:26:11 PM
I'm sorry Elisabeth, I don't, but this has piqued my interest. Where did you find the Sokolov report?
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Lanie on February 04, 2005, 09:27:54 PM
I have it somewhere.  It's in the Royal Russia book.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Val289 on February 04, 2005, 10:01:56 PM
Quote
Does anyone have a good, clear reproduction of the photograph of Olga, Alexei and Anastasia in Tobolsk that is given as Photo No. 6 in the Sokolov Report? Olga stands to the left of a swingset, Alexei is in the middle, on the swing, and Anastasia is on the right. There is also a man to the very far right but the photo is so dark he is impossible to make out (possibly Dr. Botkin?). At any rate, I haven't seen this photo reproduced anywhere but in reprints of the Sokolov report. And as I said, my copy is too dark to show here (even if I had a scanner, which I don't!).



Elisabeth - I have this photo in my "Royal Russia" book.  It's quite dark and of bad quality in the book, but I have scanned it and will post it here anyway.  It's very hard to make out the man on the right - in my book it looks like it could be Dr. Botkin  (or Nicholas - is that a cigarette in his right hand?).................  Sorry, I know the photo is still very dark!   :-[(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v622/val289/RR.jpg)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: moonlight_tsarina on February 04, 2005, 10:11:53 PM
Quote
If you find it could you post it? The one I posted is a grainy TV image :(


WoW!! what show was it on?

p.s-i have also een one if olga chopping wood..
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Georgiy on February 06, 2005, 02:22:13 PM
The pictures were from Nikolai i Aleksandra.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Elisabeth on February 08, 2005, 12:50:21 PM
Many thanks to Val for posting that photo of Olga, Alexey and Anastasia at the swingset in Tobolsk. The picture she reproduced here is much, much lighter and clearer than the one in my abridged Russian edition of the Sokolov report. I am also informed by Elizaveta that the photo caption in her edition of the report states the children are with a guard (in other words, not Dr. Botkin).

By the way, going back to a question Abby asked earlier, does anyone know where to get the full Sokolov report in English? I know there is an edition in English (with ALL the text and photos, of truly wonderful quality), that was published in the United States (I think). I saw this edition in an academic library in the U.S. in the early 1990s. But it seems to be rather rare, because I have not been able to find it since.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Abby on February 08, 2005, 01:23:39 PM
Thanks for replying about that, Elisabeth. I would like to read the Sokolov report, even though it has been cited in so many books and has some holes in its theories. (Such as how he thought that The blood on the wall was from the Empress and the GD's without even being able to do blood testing)Now that I see the photo you wanted, I realized that I did have it, in Royal Russia, as Lanie stated before. I had forgotten that it was taken in Tobolsk!
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: DeAnochka on February 15, 2005, 11:09:41 PM
I'm sure this quesiton has been asked many times before: Were there any pictures taken of the family at the Ipatiev house? I don't recall any at the moment.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Abby on February 16, 2005, 08:50:26 AM
It was stated that photos were taken of them by the Ural Soviet upon arrival in Ekaterinburg for identification purposes but either that was just a rumour or the pictures are kept hidden away somewhere because no one has seen them (or says that they have seen them). The last photos we have of the family is when they were at Tobolsk (and a photo of Alexei and Olga on the Rus).
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Val289 on February 18, 2005, 04:04:14 PM
Quote
Many thanks to Val for posting that photo of Olga, Alexey and Anastasia at the swingset in Tobolsk. The picture she reproduced here is much, much lighter and clearer than the one in my abridged Russian edition of the Sokolov report. I am also informed by Elizaveta that the photo caption in her edition of the report states the children are with a guard (in other words, not Dr. Botkin).



You're welcome Elisabeth - and thank you for the additional information from Elizaveta about the guard :)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: matushka on February 20, 2005, 11:28:36 AM
p.s-i have also een one if olga chopping wood..
[/quote]

This one I think.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v695/clairecher/OlgaTobolsk.jpg
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Daniel Briere on February 20, 2005, 02:03:23 PM
“Where there any photos of the IF taken in Ekaterinburg ?” Good question! There could even have been some taken by some members of the Family. Here are some interesting items I found in first investigator Nametkin’s “Inventory of Romanov  Possessions in Ekaterinburg” (FOTR, Appendix 2), objects which were found in late July/early August 1918 :

- in the stoves of the Popov House (across Voznesensky Lane): 3 cartridges of Kodak film…
- in the possession of former guard Letemin: along with the Tsarevich’s diary, such objects as a camera, a box with 16 glass negative plates, a box with 17 glass negative plates…

Which leaves me wondering: had the cartridges of film been burned?  if so beyond salvation? Was the camera empty? What was on the glass negative plates (maybe from the Tsarevich’s Magic Lantern, maybe not…) What happened to all the objects found by Nametkin?. Where they handed over to later investigators Sergeev and Sokolov? If so, what happened to them?
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: DeAnochka on February 22, 2005, 08:42:35 PM
Thanks Daniel! FOTR can never go wrong. Ha ha. Interesting thoughts. I'm guessing they were burned, and perhaps for specific purposes. Perhaps the family saw no point in taking photos while imprisoned. Personally, I wouldn't want to remember life at the Ipatiev House. Either that or they were not permitted to take photographs.

I guess it's left up for grabs.

Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Georgiy on February 22, 2005, 08:53:53 PM
I don't think they were allowed access to their cameras. I heard they asked for them on Maria's birthday, and were denied, but that could be apocryphal. Probably the destroyed negatives etc were photos taken in Tobolsk.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: moonlight_tsarina on March 01, 2005, 06:30:14 PM
Quote
Alexandrov's book is AWFUL with the photos!  They misidentify the girls, the location, etc.  ie Maria in 1918 - it's Tatiana in 1913!  It's so sad.  And the text is just as bad...


That book irritates me as well picture wise! He even labels Alexandra as Demidova...and Anastasia in 1914 as "The last picture ever taken of her".  ??? :o

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In the picture of the family on the roof at Tobolsk, you know the green house that Nicky built steps up to? People were wondering why Olga was sitting alone to the side. Maybe she didn't want to fall off? Really! That's another idea besides feeling isolated. And about OTMA being hard to identify, once you know who's who you realize quickly.
It looks like this one...and there is another in The House of Special Purpose with Olga sitting waaay off to the side.
(http://img13.exs.cx/img13/8499/notmaroof0md.jpg)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Abby on March 05, 2005, 02:07:36 PM
That photo was taken when Nicholas was recovering from typhus in 1901. Not in captivity.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: moonlight_tsarina on March 05, 2005, 05:29:38 PM
Quote
That photo was taken when Nicholas was recovering from typhus in 1901. Not in captivity.


Yep. Abby is correct. Lol... ;)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: presyork on March 05, 2005, 06:08:59 PM
I have seen photo of Nicholas that was labeled as the last known photo of the Tsar... He has his army overcoat on and hands in his pockets.. In the background you can see the wooden palisade of the Ipatiev house... His beard also looks like he trimmed it... anyone ever seen this photo...? I will search for it...

Troy
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Robert_Hall on March 05, 2005, 07:03:14 PM
Did the Tobolsk have a high wooden fence as well ?
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: presyork on March 05, 2005, 08:48:12 PM
here is the link with a bunch of different pictures, the one I was referring to says the last known photo of Tsar Nicholas... It does look like a captivity picture to me and I know that he had his overcoat which frequently would wear when they let them walk outside...
http://worldroots.com/brigitte/royal/royal20.htm
Troy
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: moonlight_tsarina on March 10, 2005, 07:09:01 PM
I have wondered, how could the family develop the camera's pictures in Tobolsk? We know they did because they still exist. Same thing for the photos taken during their early stay at the Ipatiev House before the cameras got taken away.

(I really don't know much about cameras anyways! It amazes me how a camera works, you know, capturing th picture etc.!)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: chintz22 on March 16, 2005, 07:50:58 PM
Hi All,

I've never seen the photo Val posted with the swingset either.  Olga is so thin--I've read that she lost a lot of weight in captivity but that photo was rather shocking!  This is a great thread.

Best,

Sarah
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sian_Turner on March 22, 2005, 11:13:16 AM
Val, I've been looking at the photo you posted and I just wondered if the chap on the right could be Dr Derevenko?
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Lanie on March 22, 2005, 01:07:44 PM
Quote
Val, I've been looking at the photo you posted and I just wondered if the chap on the right could be Dr Derevenko?


It's Nicholas.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Val289 on March 22, 2005, 09:10:06 PM
Lanie and Sian - I thought it looked like Nicholas.  Elisabeth said in a previous post (listed below) that it was actually a guard..........


Quote
Many thanks to Val for posting that photo of Olga, Alexey and Anastasia at the swingset in Tobolsk. The picture she reproduced here is much, much lighter and clearer than the one in my abridged Russian edition of the Sokolov report. I am also informed by Elizaveta that the photo caption in her edition of the report states the children are with a guard (in other words, not Dr. Botkin).
 

Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Daniel Briere on March 22, 2005, 11:20:07 PM
Quote
here is the link with a bunch of different pictures, the one I was referring to says the last known photo of Tsar Nicholas... It does look like a captivity picture to me and I know that he had his overcoat which frequently would wear when they let them walk outside...
http://worldroots.com/brigitte/royal/royal20.htm
Troy


The "last known photo of Nicholas" was taken in Tobolsk: the outer fence is clearly visible behind him. The same fence can be seen on various photos taken in Tobolsk (see Gilliard and Gibbs books for instance). The Ipatiev House had a fence hastily made with uneven poles. It might well be the last known photo, but it wasn't taken in Ekaterinburg.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Lanie on March 22, 2005, 11:23:36 PM
I recall reading that the "last known photograph" of Nicholas standing in the overcoat was at GHQ.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Daniel Briere on March 25, 2005, 03:21:43 PM
Hi Lanie,

You are right about the « last known photograph » being taken at Headquarters. My memory failed me… :(
Here’s the unedited photo – sorry, not very good quality – which was taken in September 1914. Then the Army Headquarters were at Baranovichi. I must say that the fence in Baranovichi is identical to the one in Tobolsk but I should have noticed that the Emperor looked much younger on that photo than on those taken in Tobolsk. :-[
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v737/Atamanets/74_3.jpg)
So it’s definitely not the last known photo of Nicholas II!
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: La_Mashka on March 30, 2005, 11:17:18 AM
Thanks for posting the complete picture!!!

It is just difficult to know "who to trust".... especially when even books have the captions wrong!
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: matushka on April 01, 2005, 04:11:46 PM
I have a question! Eugenie de Grece published a splendid biography of Alexei Nikolaevitch, his diary, letters from Tobolsk to Ekaterinburg. She wrote she found also in the "biscuits box" some photographs. In the book, there are some, but must of them are well known. Does anyone know
- where is this tresure? Private property of the family? A museum?
-Is there any "interesting", rare or unique pictures of the captivity in this collection?
-Had Eugenie de Grece all documents published or some letters stayed unpublished (I do not thonk so).
Thank you for answers.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: La_Mashka on May 20, 2005, 12:15:53 PM
ummm

wow.. I had never heard of such book...  whats the name?
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: lexi4 on May 20, 2005, 05:39:39 PM
Quote
Many thanks to Val for posting that photo of Olga, Alexey and Anastasia at the swingset in Tobolsk. The picture she reproduced here is much, much lighter and clearer than the one in my abridged Russian edition of the Sokolov report. I am also informed by Elizaveta that the photo caption in her edition of the report states the children are with a guard (in other words, not Dr. Botkin).

By the way, going back to a question Abby asked earlier, does anyone know where to get the full Sokolov report in English? I know there is an edition in English (with ALL the text and photos, of truly wonderful quality), that was published in the United States (I think). I saw this edition in an academic library in the U.S. in the early 1990s. But it seems to be rather rare, because I have not been able to find it since.

I would also like to know how to get a copy of the Sokolove report. Does anyone know?
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Robert_Hall on May 20, 2005, 05:51:48 PM
The N. Sokolov Investigation is easily available from Amazon for not very much money. I have yet to find the Eugenie de Grec [Marie Bonaparte] book on Alexeui though.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: lexi4 on May 20, 2005, 05:54:35 PM
It's hard to believe Yurovsky didn't take some pictures.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: lexi4 on May 20, 2005, 06:47:58 PM
I found this article. Hope I am posting it in the right place.

Nicholas and Alexandra

Unpublished Romanov Documents are in LC's Law Library

By ANDREI PLIGUZOV and ABBY SMITH

Following is the first of three articles on the Law Library's collection of documents and photographs relating to the assassination of the Russian imperial family. Parts two and three will be published in future issues of the LC Information Bulletin.

The Library of Congress has long served the nation as its "library of last resort," where people can locate copies of rare or hard-to-find research materials. But it has also served as what one might call the "repository of last resort."

Valuable collections from around the globe that have faced censorship, physical degradation or extinction for political, religious or other reasons have made their way here, either intentionally or by accident. In particular, the Law Library, dedicated to the preservation and access of international legal materials, has acquired some of its finest and rarest Russian holdings because donors have deposited documents there to ensure physical safety and free accessibility. This is precisely how the Law Library acquired its unique copy of the Sokolov Commission documents, investigative case files from the first inquiry into the murder of the Romanov family in 1918, begun just weeks after their assassination in Ekaterinburg, Russia. George Tellberg, a former professor of law at the University of Saratov, deposited the documents at the Library in 1953.

The story of the execution of the czar's family in the early hours of the morning of July 17, 1918, is now known in all its bloody details. Recent genetic tests, based on skeletal remains excavated from a pit in the Ural Mountains, where the bodies were dumped, have yielded irrefutable evidence of the death of the family, along with several retainers. Only the remains of Tsarevich Alexis and one of the younger daughters (either Maria or Anastasia) have not been found. Their bodies are believed to have been incinerated. Genetic testing has also proved that Anna Anderson, who long claimed to be Anastasia, had no genetic relationship to the imperial family.

This recent investigation into the murders has been fully supported by the current Russian government, which has even floated, or at least encouraged, rumors that the imperial remains will be interred in the official resting place of the Romanov dynasty in St. Petersburg.

Ironically, the present investigation is driven by exactly the same motives as Sokolov's inquiry -- to find out what actually happened; to prove beyond a doubt that all members of the imperial family were killed (and, therefore, forestall any claims by pretenders like Anderson); and to discredit the Bolsheviks and their methods.

As we now know, the imperial family was killed because the city where they were being held by the Red Army was soon to be overrun by the anticommunists. In the midst of the chaos of civil war, the Bolshevik leaders, thousands of miles away in the Kremlin, deemed it expedient to kill the Romanovs rather than risk their capture during evacuation to a safer place.

Within days of their death, Adm. Alexander Kolchak's "white" army marched into Ekaterinburg and, by July 30, he ordered an investigation into the murders. The gross ineptness of the original investigators, Aleksei Nemetkin and Ivan Sergeev, soon led Kolchak to have all the forensic materials remanded to his personal custody. On Feb. 6, 1919, he handed the case over to Nikolai Sokolov, Investigating Magistrate for Cases of Special Importance of the Omsk Tribunal. During the criminal investigation, Sokolov examined all available witnesses connected with the imperial family during their exile. He gathered photographs, deposed servants, doctors and tutors to the children, guards, soldiers and local eyewitnesses.

The findings of the Sokolov Commission, comprising eight volumes and dozens of photographs, became important state documents for Kolchak's Siberian government and were carefully preserved through the chaos of war, the disorderly retreat to Eastern Siberia and the army's dispersal in the Far East. Sokolov himself transported a set of documents through Vladivostok to Paris, where he prepared a book about the fate of the Romanovs (published posthumously in 1925). Seven of the original eight volumes that belonged to Sokolov are now at Harvard University.

The Law Library has materials that had been in the personal possession of Kolchak's justice minister, George Tellberg. Not unlike today, when authors are rushing to print with books based on the findings of the latest investigation, the early 1920s also saw a rash of books about the then-mysterious fate of the imperial family. Tellberg was among the first into print. In 1920 he published The Last Days of the Romanovs, based on files he had borrowed from Kolchak and his officers. Tellberg held on to the materials and in 1954 donated them to the Law Library, along with a large collection of materials relating to the Siberian government and the last years of Romanov rule.

The collection includes material never published in its original form. While some eyewitness testimony appeared in a German edition of the Sokolov Commission papers in 1987 (in Russian), the evidence that did not relate directly to the assassination was omitted, such as the deposition of Sidney Gibbes, the English tutor to the imperial family from 1908 until the family's avacuation from Tobolsk to Ekaterinburg in spring 1918. Gibbes lived in the royal household, and his account provides new insights into the character of the emperor and individual members of the family, including the children. The oldest, Olga, "was fair, direct, honest and open ... but could be easily irritated and her manners were a little brusque." Tatiana "was reserved, haughty, not open, but the most responsible." Maria loved their place of exile in Tobolsk, and she told Gibbes "she would happily stay there forever." Anastasia "was a real comedian, and she made everyone laugh. But she herself never laughed, just her eyes twinkled." And Alexis was clever, though not fond of reading, and had odd fancies, such as collecting old nails, saying "they may be useful."

While abroad, refugees from Russia such as Tellberg and Sokolov published their accounts of the murder of the Romanovs. In their homeland, the Soviet government refused to divulge any information about the fate of Nicholas and his family. This vacuum of official information was soon filled with numerous popular tales of the miraculous survival of one or more of the children. Several young women declared themselves to be Anastasia, and a telegraph operator in Siberia who was barely literate, certainly knew no foreign languages and was wholly ignorant of the intricacies of court etiquette (which would have been second nature to a Romanov), stubbornly insisted that he was the Tsarevich Alexis.

Today, thanks to unfettered access to all of Sokolov's materials, we have little trouble separating fact from fiction. But there is one pressing question: Who ordered the murders? Lenin's close adviser Yakov Sverdlov? Lenin himself?

There is no written evidence, because in 1918, just as today, such an order would have been given by telephone or face to face behind closed doors. Just as Tellberg understood how important it is for posterity that all documentary evidence about the Romanov deaths be preserved, so the men who ordered the execution understood that that which is not recorded cannot be preserved.

And so history must remain silent.

Andrei Pliguzov is a senior research fellow at the Russian Academy of Sciences who is doing archival research in the Law Library. Abby Smith is assistant to the associate librarian for Library Services and holds a doctorate in Russian history from Harvard University.


Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Katharine on May 20, 2005, 09:49:50 PM
So it's all a bit uncertain as to what the last photographs taken of the Romanovs were?

Were any known photos taken of them during their brief but awful time in the Ipatiev House?

The Carol Townend/James Blair Lovell book Royal Russia describes this photo as the last taken of Alexandra and "two of her daughters" (looks to me like Olga [or Tatiana] and Marie).
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v46/Kath7/scan_5521124237_1.jpg)
It doesn't say whether it was in Tobolsk or Ekaterinburg, but does say 1918. It certainly looks like it was towards the end of their lives ...
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Abby on May 20, 2005, 11:03:20 PM
I beleive that photo was taken on the balcony of the Governor's Mansion in Tobolsk in 1918 and is the last known picture of the Empress. With her are Tatiana (left) and Olga.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: grandduchess_sofia on May 21, 2005, 02:31:03 PM
I agree its Tatiana but the girl on the right looks a lot more like Maria. The features are much stronger
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Elisabeth on May 21, 2005, 03:02:09 PM
No, Abby is correct, it is definitely Olga on the right, you can tell from her profile and the way she holds herself. This picture was, as Abby says, taken in Tobolsk in the late summer or early autumn of 1917 (the grand duchesses' hair is still very short and they are wearing turbans). There were later photos taken of Olga and Tatiana but not, so far as we know, of the Empress (unless an identification photo taken in Ekaterinburg turns up).
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Katharine on May 21, 2005, 09:57:57 PM
Would you be able to post the later photos of Olga and Tatiana? :)

And I'm really very sure that the Grand Duchess on the right of the photo is Marie ...
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Lanie on May 22, 2005, 12:00:29 AM
Quote
Would you be able to post the later photos of Olga and Tatiana? :)

And I'm really very sure that the Grand Duchess on the right of the photo is Marie ...


It's Tatiana, Alix and Olga.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: grandduchess_sofia on May 23, 2005, 09:47:15 AM
I still think it looks like Maria, Olga's chin isn't as strong,
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Reco on May 24, 2005, 02:03:44 PM
Original photo...

(http://img194.echo.cx/img194/3255/b890rq.jpg) (http://www.imageshack.us)(http://)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: La_Mashka on May 25, 2005, 11:27:18 AM
I had never seen this picture.

Its amazing how even during captivity they still looked so regal....


The Tsaritsa does look very worried though....

Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: grandduchess_sofia on May 25, 2005, 12:30:43 PM
Its a lovely photo, its one of my faves, even though it was done in captivity. They all look rather peaceful. Or is it just because they're tired?
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Laura Mabee on May 26, 2005, 04:42:51 AM
Does everyone believe that picture of Tatiana, Alix and Olga was taken in 1918? I didn't believe that it was, since Alix is still wearing earings, and I thought that they were stripped of all jewllery? With the exception of some bracelettes that Alix was wearing because they were too tight to take off.   :-/ ???
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Lisa on May 26, 2005, 05:19:57 AM
It's Alix' favorite earings and I think she wore it when she was killed...
It's the famous pearls earings, she wear them on most of her photos
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Abby on May 26, 2005, 07:31:46 AM
Yeah I never thought of that! Maybe she had a few small things that she could wear?

Or perhaps everything was not "stripped" from her until she went to Ekaterinburg. At Tobolsk they had a little more leeway.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: RickV on June 10, 2005, 01:31:48 PM
The girls shaved their heads didn't they, or they were forced to, while they were in captivity? I believe I read that somewhere. That would explain the head scarves they are wearing in the photo.

Anyone read this characterization of Alexandra?:

"Her tragic, tear-lined face was
As sorrow carved in stone."

Not sure who the quote belongs to but it seems fairly accurate to me!
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: lexi4 on June 10, 2005, 01:40:06 PM
I believe their heads were shaved when the had the measles.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Tsarfan on June 10, 2005, 02:25:54 PM
Quote
Or perhaps everything was not "stripped" from her until she went to Ekaterinburg. At Tobolsk they had a little more leeway.


The whole family continued to wear some items of jewelry until their latter days in the Ipatiev house, when their personal jewelry was collected and locked in a small box.  This reportedly was a response to Nicholas' complaints of some pilfering of their personal effects by guards and service personnel who came to the house to clean, collect laundry, etc.  Nicholas received a receipt for the items collected, and the box was left on the premises until their deaths (although it was found empty, if I recall, by the White forces who took over the town shortly afterward).

As a matter of fact, if you look closely at the enlarged photo posted by Katherine, you'll notice that the daughter sitting to Alexandra's left is also wearing earrings.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Abby on June 10, 2005, 03:35:37 PM
I agree. Thank you for adding to my post, Tsarfan :)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Tsarfan on June 10, 2005, 04:00:29 PM
Quote
Original photo...

(http://img194.echo.cx/img194/3255/b890rq.jpg) (http://www.imageshack.us)(http://)


This photo must have been taken very shortly before Nicholas, Alexandra, and Maria were removed from Tobolsk in late April 1918.  The parasol indicates they are sitting outside, and the lack of jackets indicates the weather was warm.  That doesn't leave much of a window.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: RickV on June 10, 2005, 06:57:24 PM
Personally, I think the picture was doctored with a pencil. If you copy the larger copy of the photo and look at it close up with a graphic viewer, you can see it. Her hand around the umbrella distinctly looks like it was highlighted with pencil. Her mouth and the shadows around her eye looks penciled as well.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Georgiy on June 10, 2005, 07:36:21 PM
The photo was taken in late summer - early autumn 1917. While it may well be the last known photo of the Empress, it is by no means the last known photo of her daughters.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Tsarfan on June 10, 2005, 10:06:45 PM
The German caption simply -- and ambiguously -- reads "the last photograph of the tsarina and her daughters".  Even if the daughters were photographed later, this is the last photo of the tsarina with her daughters, isn't it?

The photo says "Tobolsk 1918".  Why do you think it was from 1917?  (I'm not saying you're wrong.  I'm just interested in knowing what indicates it's not 1918.)

Thanks.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Abby on June 10, 2005, 10:31:17 PM
Quote
Personally, I think the picture was doctored with a pencil. If you copy the larger copy of the photo and look at it close up with a graphic viewer, you can see it. Her hand around the umbrella distinctly looks like it was highlighted with pencil. Her mouth and the shadows around her eye looks penciled as well.



Taking a  close look at it, I have to agree that it does look penciled in, or altered in some way, but I have no doubt that the original photo is still authentic -- as it is probable that the photo was improved upon for print in a newspaper.

Georgiy I also thought that the pic is from 1918; at least, that's what I have read in books' captions under the picture. (Naturally, we know of a picture or two of Olga on board the Rus, so it is not the last photo of her -- and we have a photo of Tatiana sitting at a table in Tobolsk with Olga and Anastasia and Alexei and a few ladies-in-waiting, so it is not the last known one of Tatiana.)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Georgiy on June 12, 2005, 11:37:12 PM
I am sure I saw the photo in a book by one of their retainers that it was 1917. Also, their clothes look just a little too summery for 1918. Don't forget that when the Empress left, she crossed the river by taratass as it was still ice-bound and only starting to thaw here and there.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Elisabeth on June 13, 2005, 01:06:38 PM
Quote
The photo was taken in late summer - early autumn 1917. While it may well be the last known photo of the Empress, it is by no means the last known photo of her daughters.


I agree with Georgiy, this photo was mislabelled. It was obviously taken in late summer, early autumn 1917. Not only the summery weather (indicated by the white dresses) but also the turbans the girls are wearing indicate this. When Alexandra left Tobolsk in April 1918, there was still snow on the ground, and when the girls left a month later, they were no longer wearing turbans - their hair had grown out to such a length that it could even be pulled back and worn in a bun. Moreover, they were still wearing their winter clothing (see the photos taken on board the steamboat Rus').
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Abby on June 13, 2005, 03:17:20 PM
Good points, Elizabeth and Georgiy! I didn't even notice that their outfits were too "summery" for the winter of 1918. I guess I can't always trust the captions!
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Georgiy on June 13, 2005, 04:46:25 PM
That's very true. And it's not only dates - you know I've seen in a book, that formal photo of the IF from 1913, where they have labelled the Empress as Tatiana and vice versa! I can understand mixing up names in a blurry informal shot where everyone is far away from the camera or looking away or something, but a formal photo mistaking a middle-aged lady for a teenage girl?!
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Abby on June 13, 2005, 09:05:50 PM
I know! So many silly mistakes...no excuse for them! LOL Don't you think they'd have someone who knows one person from the other edit the photo captions before a book goes to print?
Ah well. At least we know who they are!
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Margarita Markovna on June 18, 2005, 10:31:35 PM
I have a question...why were they on a roof in Tobolsk?
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Elocin on June 20, 2005, 12:44:36 AM
I have always wondered about the roof top pictures myself.

Any teenager with a window and a tree knows that rooftops lead to freedom. It always seemed curious to me that prisoners would be let out onto a roof top.

Then again maybe I was too much of a deviant in my younger days.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Margarita Markovna on June 20, 2005, 10:54:01 AM
Yea...I know...I have a roof outside my room and I go out there all the time. The only thing is, most teens aren't allowed out on the roof and Nicholas is out there with them...
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: etonexile on June 20, 2005, 11:35:16 AM
A roof top from a window would have been a fairly safe,private place to enjoy some sunshine...away from the guards...and where would they have gone if they'd jumped off the roof?....Into a garden space....with walls all around....Their guards were vicious....not stupid....
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: grandduchess_sofia on June 20, 2005, 01:12:47 PM
Yea, i suppose they could sort of get away from the guards up there.
sopsxx
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: RealAnastasia on June 20, 2005, 07:52:55 PM
Quote

I agree with Georgiy, this photo was mislabelled. It was obviously taken in late summer, early autumn 1917. Not only the summery weather (indicated by the white dresses) but also the turbans the girls are wearing indicate this. When Alexandra left Tobolsk in April 1918, there was still snow on the ground, and when the girls left a month later, they were no longer wearing turbans - their hair had grown out to such a length that it could even be pulled back and worn in a bun. Moreover, they were still wearing their winter clothing (see the photos taken on board the steamboat Rus').



This photo is amazing for its bad quality. Alexandra is very much her, but the girls doesn't ressemble themselves in any way... ::) There are desperately thin and fragile, and their faces are a little blurred. Perhaps the one whose face we can see it's Tatiana...But who is the other one? Not likely Maria, nor Anastasia...The problem is that she didn't look a bit like Olga, either!

RealAnastasia.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: koloagirl on June 22, 2005, 03:45:33 PM
 :)

I agree that this photo is really bad quality!   :-X

And it always bugs me when someone has "enhanced i.e. doctored" the photo like this one - Alix's face is almost unrecognizable because of the heavily penciled "enhancement".  But many old photos seem to have been published like this.

Does anyone know who took this photo?  I'm assuming that it was a member of the family?   ???

And the girls do look desperate and unhappy....very thin and what you can see of their faces seem so stressed and sad -- it is a very sad picture indeed.   :(

By the way, I am also of the opinion that it is Olga on the right -- primarily because of the way she holds herself and I don't think Maria ever became as skeletal as Olga did.

So sad.  :'(
Janet R.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Reco on July 09, 2005, 09:59:47 PM
This is not a photo but...
(http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/2720/arrivedutsarekaterinbourgle30a.jpg) (http://www.imageshack.us)(http://)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: grandduchess_sofia on July 10, 2005, 11:18:37 AM
look how young they made Maria look! not really accurate there.
sopsxx
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Rijio on July 10, 2005, 11:38:13 AM
When she was captive, Maria hadn't these long hair?!  ???
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: DeAnochka on July 18, 2005, 09:21:13 PM
Interestingly altered. It kind of just looks like someone loaded it into Photoshop and used some sort of filter to make it more stylized.

In "the last known photo of the Empress" it is difficult to tell whether that is Marie or Olga, as they looked so much alike in later years. I know it's Olga though. The melancholic expression tells all.

Your DeAnochka
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: DeAnochka on July 18, 2005, 09:24:35 PM
Quote
This is not a photo but...


Oh. . . ah, yes. I just caught this memo. Ignore my first paragraph then.  :P
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: AGRBear on July 20, 2005, 10:40:02 AM
The man standing in front of Nicholas II is Vassily Yakovlev who took Nicholas II and the others from Tobolsk....

Before anyone had a photo of the "mysterious"  Vassily Yakovlev, an artist drew this scene showing him turning  Nicholas II and some of the others over to the officials at  Ekaterinburg on 30 April 1918.

Yakovlev's identity was not known for a long time and many old books have theories as to who he was.  Some thought he was there to rescue Nicholas II.  Some thought he was part of the skeme to place Nicholas II into th hands of the Soviet Ural in Ekaterinburg.  Some thought he was a German rescuer and the plot failed.

It wasn't that long ago that a photo appeared of Yakovlev and the Soviets explained who he was and that he had not died as previously thought in the hands of the CHEKA, or the Whites or of typoid (I think it was)....  The Soviets also explained he was a Bolshevik and not as mysterious as the old books claimed.



AGRBear
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: matushka on July 23, 2005, 03:34:42 PM
About this photograph on the balcony: we can try to date it. I read the diary of the Empress. She was for example on the balcony the 15, the 21 of august, the 3 of september. Later, the wether bacame colder. I have just an electronic short version of the diaries, so there can be other possibles dates. She did not wrote was she with daughter or not. Any proposition?
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Tania+ on August 18, 2005, 07:00:10 PM
I've read in various places, that photographs of the IF have been mislabeled, dated incorrectly, etc.
This brings up the the issues of everyday travel, and living freely. Let me explain: I understood up to 1940's, streets, highways, and other by-ways were incorrectly stated on maps. This was to make it difficult so the population would not be able to get around. Did they not also as soviet citizens, in cities, have to register as to if they were going to leave any area to each governing area? I heard it was very difficult to leave any given area without state approval.

Thus my thoughts of pictures, time frames, names, etc., all being treated without any real regard.

Tania
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Margarita Markovna on September 01, 2005, 01:13:51 PM
Could someone post the pictures of them on the Rus?

And where was this one taken? I've seen it labeled as Nastya's last picture everywhere...


(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/margaritamarkovna/Romanov%20Photos/lastpicofana.jpg)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Romanov_Fan19 on September 01, 2005, 07:42:00 PM
Ive also  heard  it was her last photo   everytime  I  see it I Have to admit  i get a bit sad :(   that poor  little girl I wish   A.A.  Was her so at least she  couldve  had a fuller life......I Really hope  they are in Heaven  (as a Christian  I Belive  they  are...so in the end  I Guess they were  victorious)  The Lord be  with them always +
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Margarita Markovna on September 01, 2005, 10:29:53 PM
Amen.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Ortino on September 01, 2005, 10:48:32 PM
Quote
And where was this one taken? I've seen it labeled as Nastya's last picture everywhere...


 It was taken in Tobolsk in the girls' room and yes, it is the supposed last photo of her.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Georgiy on September 01, 2005, 11:55:08 PM
Can't be the last photo of her, as it was taken in Tobolsk. The last photo of her is the one of her on the Rus, heading to Ekaterinburg.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Margarita Markovna on September 02, 2005, 12:26:35 PM
Could you post that? :)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Ortino on September 02, 2005, 01:48:41 PM
Quote
Can't be the last photo of her, as it was taken in Tobolsk. The last photo of her is the one of her on the Rus, heading to Ekaterinburg.


I've never seen a picture of her on the Rus. Only Olga and Alexei.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Margarita Markovna on September 02, 2005, 03:04:20 PM
Do you have that picture of Olga and Alexei?
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Georgiy on September 04, 2005, 04:39:04 PM
I'm sure someone has posted them somewhere. The one with Anastasia is of her and Tatiana and some of the servants. I think it is also in Kurth's 'Tsar' book.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: lexi4 on September 05, 2005, 01:23:17 AM
I'll check my book and see.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sarushka on September 05, 2005, 12:35:35 PM
Here are the last known photos of four of the imperial children, taken aboard the Rus:
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/100_2301.jpg)
Alexei & Olga


(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/100_2302.jpg)
Tatiana (facing the camera on the left, by the window) & Anastasia
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sarushka on September 05, 2005, 12:37:49 PM
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/100_2306.jpg)
Alexei in Tobolsk, sometime after his sled ride down the stairs...
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sarushka on September 05, 2005, 12:39:38 PM
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/100_2307.jpg)
The carriages which took Nicky, Alix, & Maria to Ekaterinburg. (Taken by Gibbes)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sarushka on September 05, 2005, 12:45:10 PM
Tobolsk, sometime after the departure of NA, AF & MN:

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/100_2309.jpg)
From left to right: Olga Nikolaevna, Tatischev, Gilliard, Tucheva, Tatiana Nikolaevna, Schneider.

All of the photos in these last few posts were taken from TSAR, by Peter Kurth.
Sept. 24 edit: Misidentification alert! The woman I labeled as Tutcheva is actually Hendrikova.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Margarita Markovna on September 06, 2005, 02:02:01 PM
Thanks! I haven't seen any of those before!
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: bernard_timbal on September 06, 2005, 03:15:19 PM
Quote
Thanks! I haven't seen any of those before!



so do I for the second one on the Russ and the one with Gilliard ! Very very interesting
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Olga_Anna on September 06, 2005, 05:24:45 PM
I have'nt seen those either!  :) In the last one Olga and Tatiana look so sad and skinny.  :(
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Daniela on September 07, 2005, 03:45:20 AM
Dear heaven, how skinny was he in those days. He is looking so sad.
And in this photo, he looked so alike his mother Empress Alexandra, didn't he?

Daniela

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/100_2306.jpg)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Teddy on September 10, 2005, 03:17:02 AM
Second picture of this page.

Who is the lady on the extreme right of the picture, dressed in black?
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sarushka on September 10, 2005, 07:51:26 AM
Quote
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/100_2302.jpg)

Is this the one you mean? My best guess would be Catherine Schneider on the right, but I don't know. I'm pretty much going on the shape of her face, which is too blurry for me to be sure. It could just as easily be Tutcheva.

Another thing -- on the left, behind Tatiana, there's a mirror. Could that be Olga's reflection in profile? The shape of the hat is the same as in the photo of Olga & Alexei...!
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sarushka on September 11, 2005, 10:01:27 PM
One more Tobolsk photo:
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/teainTobolsk.jpg)
Anastasia, Tatiana, Alexei, and Olga at tea. I noticed Alexei's bed is pulled right up to the table. And is that a bunch of jigsaw puzzle pieces on his bed tray?
(from Tsar, by Peter Kurth)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: grandduchess_42 on September 13, 2005, 07:12:45 AM
thank you for posting i have never seen those before!
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Teddy on September 24, 2005, 01:58:13 PM
SarahElizabeth11,

Please help me to remember: who was Tutcheva again?
And was she with the family in captivity? Because I thought Tutcheva was a governess to the childeren and was dismissed when she openly told what she thought of Rasputin.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sarushka on September 24, 2005, 10:08:41 PM
Quote
SarahElizabeth11,

Please help me to remember: who was Tutcheva again?
And was she with the family in captivity? Because I thought Tutcheva was a governess to the childeren and was dismissed when she openly told what she thought of Rasputin.


Whoops! You're quite right, Teddy, that's not Tutcheva -- it's Countess Hendrikova, who I believe was shot by the Bolshviks with Catherine Schneider. Thanks for catching that!
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: ZarevnaOlga on November 01, 2005, 12:50:22 PM
Alexandra
(http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/1781/oaf11261nr.th.jpg) (http://img100.imageshack.us/my.php?image=oaf11261nr.jpg)

Tatiana and Anastasia
(http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/2714/oaf12668ff.th.jpg) (http://img100.imageshack.us/my.php?image=oaf12668ff.jpg)

Tatiana and Alexej
(http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/2229/oaf12673ls.th.jpg) (http://img100.imageshack.us/my.php?image=oaf12673ls.jpg)

(http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/8411/oaf12462ov.th.jpg) (http://img100.imageshack.us/my.php?image=oaf12462ov.jpg)

Maria, Olga, Anastasia and Tatiana (From Alias NAOTMAA site)
(http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/3608/oaf12273dm.th.jpg) (http://img100.imageshack.us/my.php?image=oaf12273dm.jpg)

Olga, Alexej, Anastasia, Tatiana
(http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/2341/oaf12252qm.th.jpg) (http://img100.imageshack.us/my.php?image=oaf12252qm.jpg)



Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: ZarevnaOlga on November 01, 2005, 12:56:56 PM
Maria, Tatiana, Anastasia and Nikolaj
(http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/9175/oaf11917hl.th.jpg) (http://img100.imageshack.us/my.php?image=oaf11917hl.jpg)

Tatiana at work
(http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/4550/oaf12420cv.th.jpg) (http://img100.imageshack.us/my.php?image=oaf12420cv.jpg)

OTMA without hair, after illness
(http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/1115/oaf12215rx.th.jpg) (http://img100.imageshack.us/my.php?image=oaf12215rx.jpg)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: ZarevnaOlga on November 01, 2005, 01:01:35 PM
Tatiana, Anastasia with a guard
(http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/2489/12541qc.th.jpg) (http://img100.imageshack.us/my.php?image=12541qc.jpg)

Nikolaj and Alexej
(http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/6828/oaf11940og.th.jpg) (http://img100.imageshack.us/my.php?image=oaf11940og.jpg)

Olga and Anastasia
(http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/5636/oaf12627vi.th.jpg) (http://img100.imageshack.us/my.php?image=oaf12627vi.jpg)

Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: lilavanderhorn on November 02, 2005, 08:42:16 AM
Zarevna Olga, thank you so much for posting these pictures.  They are great, I love the one with the girls with their heads shaved.  Anastasia truly looks like her mother in this one.  You can really see the head shapes in this one.
Title: Re: Captivity photos
Post by: AGRBear on November 04, 2005, 11:17:49 AM
Follow the link and see the photo which is labeled as being Nicholas II and his daughters (3) during their captivity in Ekaterinburg (Siberia).

http://www.bwbs.de/bwbs_biografie/index.php?l=en&p=wg&m=2&id=709

Does anyone reconize this one?

Was it taken in Ekaterinburg?

On another thread,  one of the posters thought it might be from a painting.  On the same  thread,  the posters thought the girl in front was Anastasia.


AGRBear
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Helene on November 05, 2005, 12:37:36 AM
Yes it is a painting, from left to right Maria, Anastasia, Tatiana and Nicolas, it was based on a real picture which was taken in the Alexander Palace
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Louis_Charles on November 05, 2005, 09:30:15 AM
It's also a composite, isn't it? The photo of Nicholas sitting on the stump was taken during the captivity at Tsarskoe, while the image of the three grand duchesses is obviously from an earlier period.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: rskkiya on November 05, 2005, 10:28:46 AM
It is a composite.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: ZarevnaOlga on November 07, 2005, 02:49:50 PM
I have it in big and full
(http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/6108/oaf11910oy.th.jpg) (http://img9.imageshack.us/my.php?image=oaf11910oy.jpg)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Margarita Markovna on November 07, 2005, 03:57:15 PM
Olga, WHERE do you get all these great photos?
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: ZarevnaOlga on November 08, 2005, 01:55:37 PM
This quastion i read very often in the last time :). My pictures are from a lot of books and different Internetsites since 1997. From this year i collect all pictures of Romanov family i can get. I bouth some Postcards in Russia and Darmstadt, and i have many books in russian where are new pictures. And my cousine was threetimes in St. Petersburg and Moskau and brouth some postcards for me, but surprisly not very much. I was surprised, because she tell me that in Petersburg are not very many pictures of Tsars... I dont know, is it treu or she didn´t want to buy more for me...
Oh, now ist a long story ;D Sorry, i donßt want to borring you... :-[
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Margarita Markovna on November 08, 2005, 01:58:09 PM
It's not boring at ALL...quite the contrary.

Wow...I just noticed...you have a Russian character in there...how did you do that?

Sorry for all the questions.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: ZarevnaOlga on November 08, 2005, 02:32:49 PM
Quote
It's not boring at ALL...quite the contrary.

Wow...I just noticed...you have a Russian character in there...how did you do that?

Sorry for all the questions.



Sorry, i cant English very good, so i dont really understand you quastion, do what do you mean "you have a Russian character in there...how did you do that?
I think you must smile about my quastion, not? ;D I am so bad in English sorry
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Georgiy on November 08, 2005, 07:31:27 PM
Possibly Ritka meant the ß in your reply. This is a German letter, which is actually a combination of two 's'es, the first being the 'long s', the second being a 'small s'. The long 's' was used in English up until the late 1700s, and looks a bit like an f.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: ZarevnaOlga on November 09, 2005, 06:20:43 AM
Now i understand nothing :-[ ;D. I am German, so i know ß and i am russian too... I dont really understand what she mean??? :)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Margarita Markovna on November 09, 2005, 08:08:33 AM
Quote
Possibly Ritka meant the ß in your reply. This is a German letter, which is actually a combination of two 's'es, the first being the 'long s', the second being a 'small s'. The long 's' was used in English up until the late 1700s, and looks a bit like an f.


Oh it's German? Boy, do I feel dumb now...
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: ZarevnaOlga on November 09, 2005, 09:43:28 AM
Now i get it!!! :)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: ZarevnaOlga on November 28, 2005, 06:13:54 AM
he Imperial children
from l.t.r.: Anastasia, Olga, Alexej, Maria and Tatiana
(http://img494.imageshack.us/img494/2026/oaf12565lz.th.jpg) (http://img494.imageshack.us/my.php?image=oaf12565lz.jpg)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: matushka on February 07, 2006, 08:27:18 AM
Tatiana and her father
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v695/clairecher/FOTIC3.jpg
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Faberge on February 11, 2006, 09:40:45 PM
Tatiana's nose is SO Anna A in this one !!

Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: julia.montague on March 02, 2006, 12:45:55 PM
Quote

Oh it's German? Boy, do I feel dumb now...

A few days ago I had an experience with German and cyrillic letters. I looked for some russian websites and to be able to see the right I changed the codation to cyrillic. After (of course without changing back) I went to my own website and was shocked because all the letters we only have in German were cyrillic letters.
When I noticed why (codation) I had to think about Ritka here. I think you have your Codation on cyrillic, if you change it to westeuropean, you will see the German letter! ;D
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sarushka on December 05, 2006, 06:13:12 PM
Judging by how short Aleksei's hair is, I think this might have been taken during the IF's captivity at the AP:

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Aleksei/th_APcaptivity.jpg) (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Aleksei/APcaptivity.jpg)


Anybody know for sure?
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: londo954 on December 06, 2006, 12:10:27 AM
Actually I believe the photo was taken while Alexi was staying with his father at Stavka
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sarushka on December 06, 2006, 07:44:28 AM
That's entirely possible, too. I wish we could see more of the room to ID it. But I've never seen Aleksei's hair so short -- except after it was shaved for measles.

Here's a photo from 1916, and one from 1917 for comparison:
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Aleksei/th_alexei19160001.jpg) (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Aleksei/alexei19160001.jpg) (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Aleksei/th_alpond2st.gif) (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Aleksei/alpond2st.gif)
Title: please explain this to me!!!!!!!
Post by: catherine on December 13, 2006, 08:13:57 PM
There has been speculation that the Romanovs were never killed. I have seen many pictures and they are all in very good condition. If the Bolsheviks killed them , it would seem that they would have destroyed many, if not all of their pictures. Usually with the pictures being in such good condition and so many of them it would seem they would have still have been alive to have passed them down. What do you think??????? :-X
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: imperial angel on December 19, 2006, 05:12:22 PM
Of course there has been speculation that the Romanovs were never killed. There has also been speculation about many things in history that are not true, and this fits right in.The photos were taken from them after they were murdered, and put in the archives, and any way some of them must have been left behind at Tsarskoe Selo when they left there. The reason the photos survive is that they were taken from them after they were murdered, and then they were preserved. It doesn't mean they were not murdered.I think the Bolsheviks preserved things because they felt they could keep these things secret, and that they weren't ever going to become public. Had they felt that was the case, they might have destroyed the pictures. Then again, maybe the Bolsheviks kept them because they thought they were evidence against the Romanovs, although I could not be sure what way that would be.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Ra-Ra-Rasputin on December 20, 2006, 05:12:23 AM
There was little rhyme or reason to the Bolshevik regime.

They murdered their royal family, but they kept the silliest, most insignificant things belonging to them, such as laundry bills and paintings the children made. Why is this? Who knows- it could be for any number of reasons.  Thank goodness they did, though, because otherwise we wouldn't have the plethora of information we do have about the Romanovs.  I'd like to think that the Bolsheviks kept all the photos and personal ephemera of the IF for historical purposes, but it's more likely they kept it for 'evidence' or some other such reason.  The Bolsheviks keeping the photos of the Imperial Family does not mean that they were not murdered.  That is a rather illogical statement to make.  In fact, I'd imagine they'd be MORE likely to destroy the photos if they HADN'T murdered the family, as then they'd have a ton of images of the family for people to recognise them by.

Rachel
xx
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: imperial angel on December 20, 2006, 05:00:20 PM
Yes, not destroying the photos had the opposite effect from what they intended. I think had they known that they would have destroyed them, forth with. We are more familiar with the Romanovs these days rather than less, because the Bolsheviks did not destroy these things. I don't think they could have forseen that, and if they could the captivity photos and everything else would have been gone, or maybe not, because perhaps the evidence aspect was more important, even after their murders removed all possibility of a trial.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Teddy on December 22, 2006, 01:54:12 PM
Judging by how short Aleksei's hair is, I think this might have been taken during the IF's captivity at the AP:

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Aleksei/th_APcaptivity.jpg) (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Aleksei/APcaptivity.jpg)


Anybody know for sure?

I don't think that this picture is taken in captivity, because the teacher next to him is Petrov. And Petrov was not with them during their captivity/exile, so far as I know.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sarushka on December 22, 2006, 10:11:56 PM
I don't think that this picture is taken in captivity, because the teacher next to him is Petrov. And Petrov was not with them during their captivity/exile, so far as I know.
You're quite correct that Petrov didn't accompany the IF into exile, but I believe he was with them under house arrest in the Alexander Palace.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Teddy on December 23, 2006, 05:33:46 AM
I never read that Petrov was there during their arrest. I've read the books of Anna V, Benckendorff, Mossolove, Dehn, Buxhoeveden, Gibbes and Gilliard, and nobody mentioned him.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Belochka on December 23, 2006, 07:21:12 PM
I never read that Petrov was there during their arrest. I've read the books of Anna V, Benckendorff, Mossolove, Dehn, Buxhoeveden, Gibbes and Gilliard, and nobody mentioned him.

I do not believe Petrov remained at the palace after the Imperial Family was arrested.

Margarita
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sarushka on December 23, 2006, 08:23:47 PM
I never read that Petrov was there during their arrest. I've read the books of Anna V, Benckendorff, Mossolove, Dehn, Buxhoeveden, Gibbes and Gilliard, and nobody mentioned him.

I do not believe Petrov remained at the palace after the Imperial Family was arrested.

Margarita
Perhaps a faulty assumption on my part -- I'll double check myself.  ;)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: matushka on December 25, 2006, 09:21:16 AM
Sarushka, Petrov was ill those times (something serious), so he was not in the palace. Gilliard and the family regularly asked to the priest Afanassy Beliaev about Petrov's health and father Alexander's health. You can read that in the same precious book Sisters of mercy, here is the entire dairy of father Afanassy, a very interesting thing. I knew only large extracts. If I do not make mistake. Then remember that there is letters of the girls (I remember one of Olga) already from the Alexander Palace.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Baby Tsarevich on February 05, 2007, 06:33:10 PM
Judging by how short Aleksei's hair is, I think this might have been taken during the IF's captivity at the AP:

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Aleksei/th_APcaptivity.jpg) (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Aleksei/APcaptivity.jpg)


Anybody know for sure?

I don't think that this picture is taken in captivity, because the teacher next to him is Petrov. And Petrov was not with them during their captivity/exile, so far as I know.

Alexei's head looks shaved here, wasn't this taken after the OTMAA had the measles?
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sarushka on February 05, 2007, 07:45:57 PM
Alexei's head looks shaved here, wasn't this taken after the OTMAA had the measles?
Forgive my irritation, but that's exactly what we've been talking about since I posted the photo! The answer is no. Please refer to replies 143-145, and 150-155.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sarushka on February 26, 2007, 09:43:07 AM
I don't think I've seen this photo before:

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Arrest%20and%20Exile/th_romanov2.jpg) (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Arrest%20and%20Exile/romanov2.jpg)

There is another, more common shot of Nicholas and Gilliard, but I think they're looking at the camera.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: nena on March 28, 2007, 02:14:40 PM
This picture.....I'm not sure..It was taken in Mogilev 1916 or it is during captivity in Tsarkoe Selo 1917..It is Alexei and cosin...Which cousin? Igor Konstantinovich????
(http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s301/nemanja_dj/Alexeiandcousin1916.jpg) ??? ???
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sarushka on March 28, 2007, 07:36:20 PM
Mogilev 1916 with Igor Konstantinovich is correct.  :)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: nena on March 29, 2007, 02:26:01 PM
Thanks, Sarushka! Maybe you have cleaner version of this my Alexei's picture?
(http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s301/nemanja_dj/Alexeibeach1916.jpg)
It is not captivity, I know.....
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sarushka on March 29, 2007, 05:14:08 PM
No, I'm afraid I don't have that one. I'm glad you posted it, though -- it's new to me!  ;D
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: carkuczyn on March 29, 2007, 05:34:00 PM
regarding the photo of alexei and his cousin in the water......are those bruises on alexei's thigh?  just wondering because of the hemophelia.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sarushka on March 29, 2007, 06:22:53 PM
regarding the photo of alexei and his cousin in the water......are those bruises on alexei's thigh?  just wondering because of the hemophelia.
It's certainly possible, but it's also really hard to tell with any reasonable degree of accuracy in black & white. The spots could be river mud for all we know....
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: nena on March 30, 2007, 06:03:50 AM
I don't think I've seen this photo before:

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Arrest%20and%20Exile/th_romanov2.jpg) (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Arrest%20and%20Exile/romanov2.jpg)

There is another, more common shot of Nicholas and Gilliard, but I think they're looking at the camera.
Sorry, Sarushka, but do you want to post some more Romanov pictures from ''Arrest and Exile"
For, example I have some Alexei pictures during Captivity in Tsarskoe, He is breaking ice,etc.... :D
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: nena on April 02, 2007, 02:46:18 PM
Ok, Here is Alexei breaking ice in Tsarskoe Selo, march 1917:
(http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s301/nemanja_dj/1917.jpg)
But, this picture...Is this captivity?:
(http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s301/nemanja_dj/Aleksej1917prerevolucijepretpostavl.jpg)  :(
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: mr_harrison75 on April 02, 2007, 05:45:41 PM
I've seen a picture of Tatiana and Anastasia, with 3 guards (I think it was taken in Tobolsk, because their hair hadn't grown back yet). I have it, but in a ridiculeously small format. Anyone knows the one I mean?
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sarushka on April 02, 2007, 08:15:11 PM
I've seen a picture of Tatiana and Anastasia, with 3 guards (I think it was taken in Tobolsk, because their hair hadn't grown back yet). I have it, but in a ridiculeously small format. Anyone knows the one I mean?
These were taken at the Alexander Palace:
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Arrest%20and%20Exile/th_tatsoldieranabald1917_2.jpg) (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Arrest%20and%20Exile/tatsoldieranabald1917_2.jpg) (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Arrest%20and%20Exile/th_tatana.jpg) (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Arrest%20and%20Exile/tatana.jpg)


The children's heads were shaved on or before June 22, and they weren't transferred to Tobolsk until August, so you can be reasonably sure that any photos of them *completely* bald were taken at the AP.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: mr_harrison75 on April 02, 2007, 08:48:37 PM
It's the one on the left!

Thanks for the info, Sarushka, I should've thought about it myself! ::)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sarushka on May 08, 2007, 08:56:33 PM
Some scarce photos from the Ipatiev house:

The imperial couple's bedroom (shared by Aleksei):
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Arrest%20and%20Exile/th_Ipatievbedroom.jpg) (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Arrest%20and%20Exile/Ipatievbedroom.jpg)

Photos and wall calendar from the bedroom:
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Arrest%20and%20Exile/th_Ipatievbedroomwall.jpg) (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Arrest%20and%20Exile/Ipatievbedroomwall.jpg)

Courtyard and drive of the Ipatiev house:
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Arrest%20and%20Exile/th_Ipatievcourtyard.jpg) (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Arrest%20and%20Exile/Ipatievcourtyard.jpg)

Possessions recovered from the Ipatiev house, including a note from Alexandra to Anna Vyrubova:
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Arrest%20and%20Exile/th_Ipativepossessions.jpg) (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Arrest%20and%20Exile/Ipativepossessions.jpg)


I have additional photos of the interiors of the Ipatiev house -- shall I start a new thread for them? There doesn't seem to be a current one. (Some folks have posted Ipatiev photos in the past, but they've all turned into those annoying little red X's...)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: AGRBear on May 09, 2007, 09:33:14 AM
Yes, please.


AGRBear
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Bob_the_builder on May 18, 2007, 07:09:06 PM
(http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/5430/nikgirlsroofoe7.jpg)
Olga, Nicholas, Anastasia, and Tatiana.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Reco on June 11, 2007, 02:11:57 AM
Back of the Tobolsk house today

(http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/3596/exteriorcontmep3lmexterte5.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)(http://)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Reco on June 11, 2007, 02:13:46 AM
Front of the Tobolsk house today

(http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/5307/frontexteriorcontemp6tjyf4.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)(http://)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Olishka~ Pincess on June 13, 2007, 09:54:30 PM
(http://www.w-siberia.com/bitmaps/romanov5.jpg)
Ipatiev study room interior

Pokrovskoye was a place near the governers masion across Rasputin grew up in the place.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a2/ChurchOn_Blood.jpg
After the Ipatiev house was destroyed in 1977. A church was built.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Georgiy on June 19, 2007, 12:15:33 AM
Well, the Church, of course, wasn't built until very recently. Pokrovskoye is a completely different town from Tobolsk.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Joyann1 on July 01, 2007, 12:50:20 PM
its good they build an church on the spot where they were killed but i aslo wanted to see the house some day so ashame they broke it down
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: doddy3988 on July 01, 2007, 12:55:24 PM
its good they build an church on the spot where they were killed but i aslo wanted to see the house some day so ashame they broke it down
I always thought the same thing...the church could maybe "clean" the reputation of that place...and maybe give it a little peace.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Olishka~ Pincess on July 15, 2007, 10:04:32 AM
Well, the Church, of course, wasn't built until very recently. Pokrovskoye is a completely different town from Tobolsk.
Oh, I did not know that thanks for you information Georgiy !
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Joyann1 on August 01, 2007, 01:25:53 PM
its good they build an church on the spot where they were killed but i aslo wanted to see the house some day so ashame they broke it down
I always thought the same thing...the church could maybe "clean" the reputation of that place...and maybe give it a little peace.
yes your right when i would visit it [ if it wasnt broek down] it would give me an haunted feeling
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Joanna on June 12, 2008, 06:56:33 PM
A rare photograph discovered recently in the Library of Congress of Nicholas II and family outside the Tobolsk house:

http://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/07078/detail/jfellow1.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Holly on June 12, 2008, 07:00:48 PM
Thanks Joanna.
But how is that picture 'recently discovered'? You can see it in the book, "Tsar: The Lost World of Nicholas and Alexandra", by Peter Kurth. It's not really that rare..
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Joanna on June 12, 2008, 07:46:12 PM
Thanks Holly for the info. I had seen Peter Kurth's book over ten years ago and do not remember seeing this photo. Must be age! I will have to find it again as I am curious of the source.

Here is the article from the Library of Congress on 'Revealing Hidden Treasures' 2007:
http://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/07078/jfellow.html

Joanna

Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Kitt on June 13, 2008, 11:57:17 AM
That is totally correct. That photo is found on page173 pf Kurth's Tsar.  Seems like there are several copies.
All the best,
Kitt
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: writer_in_the_making on June 14, 2008, 09:31:01 AM
There is a picture on another thread taken by Anastasia 3 days before the execution.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: nena on June 14, 2008, 09:51:57 AM
archaeologistwanna-be, I know which one you meant.
(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Zarobljenistvo/th_lastpicofana.jpg) (http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Zarobljenistvo/lastpicofana.jpg)
But it was taken at Tobolsk, in GD's room at Governor's House., not in Ekaterinburg. But really good point. What if that were really taken 3 days before execution?
Governor's Mansion, If I may add:
(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Zarobljenistvo/Gubernatorski%20Dom/th_5dcd89db.jpg) (http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Zarobljenistvo/Gubernatorski%20Dom/5dcd89db.jpg)
(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Zarobljenistvo/Gubernatorski%20Dom/th_d3e0be7b.jpg) (http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Zarobljenistvo/Gubernatorski%20Dom/d3e0be7b.jpg)
(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Zarobljenistvo/Gubernatorski%20Dom/th_d2c5803e.jpg) (http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Zarobljenistvo/Gubernatorski%20Dom/d2c5803e.jpg)
(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Zarobljenistvo/Gubernatorski%20Dom/th_porodica_toboljsk_1917a.jpg) (http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Zarobljenistvo/Gubernatorski%20Dom/porodica_toboljsk_1917a.jpg)
(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Zarobljenistvo/Gubernatorski%20Dom/th_porodica_Toboljsk_1917.jpg) (http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Zarobljenistvo/Gubernatorski%20Dom/porodica_Toboljsk_1917.jpg)
(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Zarobljenistvo/Gubernatorski%20Dom/th_sobaNIIToboljsk.jpg) (http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Zarobljenistvo/Gubernatorski%20Dom/sobaNIIToboljsk.jpg)
(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Zarobljenistvo/Gubernatorski%20Dom/th_toboljsksobavelikihknjeginja.jpg) (http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Zarobljenistvo/Gubernatorski%20Dom/toboljsksobavelikihknjeginja.jpg)
(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Zarobljenistvo/Gubernatorski%20Dom/th_gubernatorske.jpg) (http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Zarobljenistvo/Gubernatorski%20Dom/gubernatorske.jpg)
(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Zarobljenistvo/Gubernatorski%20Dom/th_domtoboljsk.jpg) (http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Zarobljenistvo/Gubernatorski%20Dom/domtoboljsk.jpg)
(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Zarobljenistvo/Gubernatorski%20Dom/th_gubernatorskidomtoboljsk.jpg) (http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Zarobljenistvo/Gubernatorski%20Dom/gubernatorskidomtoboljsk.jpg)
(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Zarobljenistvo/Gubernatorski%20Dom/th_dom.jpg) (http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Zarobljenistvo/Gubernatorski%20Dom/dom.jpg)
(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Zarobljenistvo/Gubernatorski%20Dom/th_nic11.jpg) (http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Zarobljenistvo/Gubernatorski%20Dom/nic11.jpg)
(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/th_a01043d7.jpg) (http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/a01043d7.jpg)
Today and past!
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sarushka on June 14, 2008, 10:57:20 AM
There is a picture on another thread taken by Anastasia 3 days before the execution.

No photos of the IF after their transfer to Ekaterinburg are known to exist. Their own photography equipment was confiscated, and to my knowledge they were never photographed by their captors in the Ipatiev House.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Michael HR on June 15, 2008, 09:40:59 AM
Thank god they did not photograph the aftermath of the cellar room. Not sure I could ever look at those. Always thought it odd that the guards did not do so as proof positive of the murders but thankfully not.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on November 17, 2009, 05:01:12 PM
Here are the last known photos of four of the imperial children, taken aboard the Rus:
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/100_2301.jpg)
Alexei & Olga


(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/100_2302.jpg)
Tatiana (facing the camera on the left, by the window) & Anastasia

These photos , while unimaginably precious, are hard to take. Because of the looks on thier faces of course, but also when
one compares them to the river of beautiful images that came before. These scratchy, poor images
make it seem like the family are already fading out , like a signal poorly received . What I'm trying to say is the photos themselves
are symbolic of the situation and heart breaking
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: koloagirl on November 21, 2009, 09:12:39 PM

Aloha all!

Can't remember which thread I read this on, but there was discussion over a photograph apparently taken by GD Anastasia of the altar they set up for a church service - and whether it was ever developed - I think it was in Tobolsk. 

I was reading my copy of "The House of Special Purpose" by J.C. Trewin today  and noticed that on page 94 and 95 there are pictures of an actual church service in the "ballroom" at Tobolsk and the altar as well - wonder if these are the pictures mentioned being taken by Anastasia in captivity in Siberia.

Sorry I can't remember which thread the discussion was on :-(

Janet R.

Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: nena on November 21, 2009, 09:49:37 PM
I only recall photo taken by Piere Gilliard of altar at Governor's mansion in the spring of 1918. And yes, you are correct, I remember the photo you are referring at. There is little desk. I don't know if Anastasia did it, but at least one of the Gd's learned how to develope photos.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on November 22, 2009, 11:32:12 PM
 
(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Zarobljenistvo/Gubernatorski%20Dom/th_toboljsksobavelikihknjeginja.jpg) (http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Zarobljenistvo/Gubernatorski%20Dom/toboljsksobavelikihknjeginja.jpg)
 

It's touching how this looks similar to  thier bedrooms at AP...
similar, but so different too
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sarushka on November 23, 2009, 07:12:01 AM
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Arrest%20and%20Exile/th_thirteen_years_44.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Arrest%20and%20Exile/?action=view&current=thirteen_years_44.jpg) (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Arrest%20and%20Exile/th_Ballroomchapel.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Arrest%20and%20Exile/?action=view&current=Ballroomchapel.jpg)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on November 23, 2009, 11:37:02 AM
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Arrest%20and%20Exile/th_thirteen_years_44.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Arrest%20and%20Exile/?action=view&current=thirteen_years_44.jpg) (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Arrest%20and%20Exile/th_Ballroomchapel.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Arrest%20and%20Exile/?action=view&current=Ballroomchapel.jpg)

These are amazing photos! Thank you for posting them!
I wonder if those figures in the 2nd photo priests or part of the household? .The photos are also amazing  in that we see here what the family themselves put together in order to worship. It's an intimate view into an aspect of thier spiritual life. And I have to say, they brought quite a holy atmosphere to a ball room.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Rodion_Felix on November 23, 2009, 01:41:06 PM
One more Tobolsk photo:
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/teainTobolsk.jpg)
Anastasia, Tatiana, Alexei, and Olga at tea. I noticed Alexei's bed is pulled right up to the table. And is that a bunch of jigsaw puzzle pieces on his bed tray?
(from Tsar, by Peter Kurth)

Question

Is there a clearer version of this picture ?
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: RHB on November 23, 2009, 02:31:22 PM
ummm i think it's a food tray... maybe?
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sarushka on November 23, 2009, 05:40:10 PM
Question

Is there a clearer version of this picture ?

I've never seen one. The photo also appears on page 101 of John Trewin's The House of Special Purpose (http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/books.html?sku=9), but the quality is even poorer.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on December 10, 2009, 08:56:29 PM
(http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/th_late.jpg) (http://s792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/?action=view&current=late.jpg)

Now that I have photobuckt and can post photos, I wanted to post this one here and ask about it. It rarely appears
when people speak of the photos taken during captivity. It seems to me this is OTMA...but as I say it's so rarely shown, that sometimes I wonder. It's a painful photo, that much is sure..and I'm guessing it was taken in Tobolsk . Thanks in advance for any infomation
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Olga Maria on December 10, 2009, 09:30:03 PM
Yes, this is OTMA. As you can see, they look very simple and almost like peasants.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on December 10, 2009, 09:52:05 PM
Yes, this is OTMA. As you can see, they look very simple and almost like peasants.
I guess it rarely shows up because it is painful to view. Imo it's a very graphic illustration of the toll captivity is taking.
...and yet they are smiling, bless them. Mostly likely the smile is for whoever is taking the photo.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sarushka on December 10, 2009, 10:46:34 PM
My understanding is that photo was taken at Tsarskoe Selo, soon after the GDss recovery from measles. They still have their hair, which would place it between March and June. This has been one of my favorites since I first saw it.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on December 10, 2009, 11:09:04 PM
My understanding is that photo was taken at Tsarskoe Selo, soon after the GDss recovery from measles. They still have their hair, which would place it between March and June.
That's interesting because, to me, thier hair seems more like hair pieces than the hair pieces photos.
Quote
This has been one of my favorites since I first saw it.
It's very special. Thank you for the infomation!
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Ally Kumari on December 11, 2009, 06:23:08 AM
My understanding is that photo was taken at Tsarskoe Selo, soon after the GDss recovery from measles. They still have their hair, which would place it between March and June. This has been one of my favorites since I first saw it.

Mine too!

You can also see how thin Maria is (even though the light is bad), most probably after the illness.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sarushka on December 11, 2009, 06:52:44 AM
My understanding is that photo was taken at Tsarskoe Selo, soon after the GDss recovery from measles. They still have their hair, which would place it between March and June.
That's interesting because, to me, thier hair seems more like hair pieces than the hair pieces photos.

I've heard talk online about the girls wearing hair pieces, but I don't think I've ever run across a reference to them in print. Have you? The vast majority of the Tsarskoe photos seem to have been taken in the spring and early summer, before their heads were shaved. There's certainly no sign of hair pieces in the snapshot where OTMA spontaneously removed their hats for Gilliard's camera. ;)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Douglas on December 11, 2009, 12:24:39 PM

I  would be happy to run this photo through my photo software and make it come to life but there is a major problem.  This photo lacks protographic 'content'.  It also lacks details that can be enhanced...IMO.


One more Tobolsk photo:
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/teainTobolsk.jpg)
Anastasia, Tatiana, Alexei, and Olga at tea. I noticed Alexei's bed is pulled right up to the table. And is that a bunch of jigsaw puzzle pieces on his bed tray?
(from Tsar, by Peter Kurth)

Question

Is there a clearer version of this picture ?
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on December 11, 2009, 01:25:37 PM
Quote
author=Sarushka link=topic=1251.msg411870#msg411870 date=1260535964]
I've heard talk online about the girls wearing hair pieces, but I don't think I've ever run across a reference to them in print. Have you? The vast majority of the Tsarskoe photos seem to have been taken in the spring and early summer, before their heads were shaved. There's certainly no sign of hair pieces in the snapshot where OTMA spontaneously removed their hats for Gilliard's camera. ;)

lol! ...But it wasn't spontaneous! They removed thier hats  "on a signal from GD Olga...." and really is there a photo of Olga with a broader smile? Gilliard'says they couldn't wait to see thier parents reaction. lol!  But yes, I'm referring to the talk online when I say the hair piece photos...but I have often wondered why they would bother?

The timing of the head shaving can be confusing. I believe most think it happened shortly after the children recovered from the measles. But as more is discovered, it seems their heads  were shaved some time after that.  After it became obvious their hair was coming out in clumps. So it was done in resignation to that fact, rather than done earlier in anticipation of it. What is also  interesting is they are wearing sweaters in the resting photos , but are in blouses in the bald photo...which also suggests a later, warmer  time
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on December 11, 2009, 01:36:08 PM
Quote
I  would be happy to run this photo through my photo software and make it come to life but there is a major problem.  This photo lacks photographic 'content'.  It also lacks details that can be enhanced...IMO.
I have  wondered how this photo  would do with  photo" clean up" software. Perhaps the lack of "photographic content" was why Peter Kurth published such a tiny print of it as well. How about a try at the Rus phots?




 
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sarushka on December 11, 2009, 03:01:13 PM
The timing of the head shaving can be confusing. I believe most think it happened shortly after the children recovered from the measles. But as more is discovered, it seems their heads  were shaved some time after that.  After it became obvious their hair was coming out in clumps. So it was done in resignation to that fact, rather than done earlier in anticipation of it. What is also  interesting is they are wearing sweaters in the resting photos , but are in blouses in the bald photo...which also suggests a later, warmer  time

I found the exact date just this week in Nicholas & Alexandra's diaries. Here's what I posted Wednesday in a measles thread:

Alexandra Feodorovna, 3/16 June
Всех четверых девочек обрили наголо, так как после кори стали сильно выпадать волосы.
(All four girls were shaved bald, because after measles much of their hair fell out.)

Nicholas II, 3/16 June
Все четыре дочери сбрили себе волосы, так как после кори они сильно лезли.
(All four daughters shaved their hair, because after measles it fell out badly.)


And on the following day, Alexandra notes: "Aleksei had his hair also complete shaved off."
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on December 11, 2009, 05:49:29 PM
 
Quote
I found the exact date just this week in Nicholas & Alexandra's diaries. Here's what I posted Wednesday in a measles thread:
Alexandra Feodorovna, 3/16 June (All four girls were shaved bald, because after measles much of their hair fell out.)
Nicholas II, 3/16 June (All four daughters shaved their hair, because after measles it fell out badly.)
That's amazing...so it was in the middle of June. That's months after recovery.
Must of been a sight lol!  Good work Sarushka!
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: imperial angel on December 18, 2009, 11:49:59 PM
That one of OTMA is such a sad picture.Who took it anyway? The girls look so alike in this pic.Could someone explain who is who to me? I believe Anastasia is the one on the right though.I do not recall seeing this picture before.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: nena on December 19, 2009, 01:56:47 AM
I believe those April 1918 photos were taken by C.S. Gibbes. Girls are from L : Anastasia, Tatiana and Olga. Alexei is seated in his sick bed.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: imperial angel on December 19, 2009, 03:01:48 AM
I mean the Tsarksoe Selo pic of the girls taken shortly after they had measles.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: nena on December 19, 2009, 03:44:34 AM
I am sorry, my mistake. About that one I don't really know. I didn't know on what photo you were referring at.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sarushka on December 19, 2009, 08:05:49 AM
(http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/th_late.jpg) (http://s792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/?action=view&current=late.jpg)
That one of OTMA is such a sad picture.Who took it anyway? The girls look so alike in this pic.Could someone explain who is who to me? I believe Anastasia is the one on the right though.I do not recall seeing this picture before.

Maria, Olga, Tatiana, Anastasia. (Don't know who took it or exactly when -- probably early spring 1917. I first saw it on Peter Kurth's website.)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: rosieposie on December 20, 2009, 12:48:57 AM
(http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/th_late.jpg) (http://s792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/?action=view&current=late.jpg)
That one of OTMA is such a sad picture.Who took it anyway? The girls look so alike in this pic.Could someone explain who is who to me? I believe Anastasia is the one on the right though.I do not recall seeing this picture before.

Maria, Olga, Tatiana, Anastasia. (Don't know who took it or exactly when -- probably early spring 1917. I first saw it on Peter Kurth's website.)

Maria looks so skinny, her poor face is so drawn.  They look different in this photo.  Not so care free but seem content.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: wox24 on December 20, 2009, 05:27:07 AM
(http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/th_late.jpg) (http://s792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/?action=view&current=late.jpg)
That one of OTMA is such a sad picture.Who took it anyway? The girls look so alike in this pic.Could someone explain who is who to me? I believe Anastasia is the one on the right though.I do not recall seeing this picture before.

Maria, Olga, Tatiana, Anastasia. (Don't know who took it or exactly when -- probably early spring 1917. I first saw it on Peter Kurth's website.)

Maria looks so skinny, her poor face is so drawn.  They look different in this photo.  Not so care free but seem content.

What illness can make. :(
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on December 21, 2009, 02:05:51 PM
(http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/th_roof.jpg) (http://s792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/?action=view&current=roof.jpg)Another captivity photo that isn't shown too often is this one from the green house roof in Tobolsk. It shows relatively close up images of Olga, Nicholas  Anastasia, and Titania. Far from appearing isolated, Olga seems ready to defend her father.Her stance is one of protector. Even if it was for a little while on a Siberian roof top, it seems to me Olga Nikolaevna gained her majority and surpassed her parent....what indeed each child is meant to do. Anastasia's shoulder is actually holding Nicholas steady, if not up, her frank glaze is aimed right at us. Titania's face seems so reminiscent of her childhood photos, where she looks into the lense with brows drawn together in a questioning expression, rather than serve. She looks so young here.... and she was .

Another photograph to consider along with this roof top image is this one taken with Cossacks
just the year before..... a bit over a year and a world away. Time is not just a string of days, it's a place as well .(http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/oct4th16.jpg)(http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/roof.jpg)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Ally Kumari on December 22, 2009, 05:15:44 PM
I´m sorry to be picky, but I hate when Tatiana´s name is misspelled :) She really wasn´t TITANIA.

Nice description, even though very subjective.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on December 22, 2009, 05:30:09 PM
I´m sorry to be picky, but I hate when Tatiana´s name is misspelled :) She really wasn´t TITANIA.

It's not being picky!! Thank you!
 
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: nena on December 23, 2009, 11:40:17 AM
I have come across something. It is roof of 'Green house', as Gilliard says, made by themselves, behind the fence of Mansion's courtyard.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on December 23, 2009, 03:20:11 PM
I have come across something. It is roof of 'Green house', as Gilliard says, made by themselves, behind the fence of Mansion's courtyard.
Yes the wooden ladder they are standing on even might be the one Nicholas made. Still it's remarkable they are standing on a glass roof at all. No wonder Nicholas is seeking extra support from Anastasia's shoulder !
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: nena on December 23, 2009, 05:09:06 PM
I agree. But as it is visible, that roof is not made only of glass, there are wooden battens too.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: KarlandZita on February 05, 2010, 06:04:08 AM
Nicolas,Tsarskoie Selo :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Tsar%20Family/Tsarevitch%20Alexis/nixk1917.jpg)

Alexei and Joy, March 1917 :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Tsar%20Family/Tsarevitch%20Alexis/tsmarch1917.jpg)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on February 05, 2010, 09:58:38 AM
great pictures!
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sarushka on February 05, 2010, 02:10:52 PM
I think the photo of Aleksei and Joy was taken at Stavka in 1915 or 1916. Nena would probably know for sure.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: burger queen on February 06, 2010, 06:58:01 AM
(http://croissantdelune.c.r.pic.centerblog.net/6g1u6a6c.jpg)

(http://croissantdelune.c.r.pic.centerblog.net/estdee3x.jpg)

(http://croissantdelune.c.r.pic.centerblog.net/ud2wot7s.jpg)

(http://croissantdelune.c.r.pic.centerblog.net/d0ace90y.jpg)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Ally Kumari on February 06, 2010, 07:17:04 AM
burger queen - perhaps you should go through picture threads before you post next time, so we would avoid seeing the same old images again.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: burger queen on February 06, 2010, 07:28:22 AM
burger queen - perhaps you should go through picture threads before you post next time, so we would avoid seeing the same old images again.

I read all the 16 pages. I didn't see any of these photos (that's why, by the way, I sent it).
Maybe I forgot some links hidden in a text. It can happen.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Ally Kumari on February 06, 2010, 08:45:25 AM
It´s not this topic or section only. I know it can be tiring, but it will help, if you searh through as much threads about pics as possible.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on February 06, 2010, 12:20:49 PM
Well I enjoyed seeing them. That first one was new to me  burger queen, so thank you . Many of the photos on the older threads have broken links...and it's maddening, because often those are the very photos the comments rave about ! lol!
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Ally Kumari on February 06, 2010, 01:46:08 PM
I´m sorry if I sounded too bossy or something :) Just that burger queen posted several images to several threads, and I just know they have been posted at least ten times already :)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on February 06, 2010, 03:56:55 PM
I´m sorry if I sounded too bossy or something :)....
Not at all Ally. I consider you an expert on the topic... sometimes the mixing of experts with newbies can be difficult. But they should know what is known. However so many of the older  threads have broken links to the photos , or so it seems ....it's sad . Plus I had a computer crash and lost a good many of my photos ...so I'm currently glad to see them posted ! lol! 
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: burger queen on February 06, 2010, 04:18:27 PM
Anyway, my stock is now empty lol.

 :)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on February 06, 2010, 07:58:05 PM
And Ally, I must mention your generosity. One of the first posts I made months ago was asking for a photo of the big pairs nurse uniforms. You posted one right away. My painting of them is almost finished and I'll be posting it soon...but I have you to thank for the information on the uniforms.  Thank you!
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Ally Kumari on February 07, 2010, 02:49:07 AM
You´re most welcome. It comes natural - somebody is interested, so you help. that´s the way it should work. I want to apologize for yesterday once again. It was really not my day and I had a kind of nervous breakdown...... Had to ventilate it somewhere.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: nena on February 07, 2010, 06:49:58 AM
I think the photo of Aleksei and Joy was taken at Stavka in 1915 or 1916. Nena would probably know for sure.
Hi everyone!

I really don't want to spread wrong information on photos here around. I have always doubted about location of that tree, in front of Alexei Nicholaievich is.

That photo appeared on Exhibitions of Pierre Gilliard's photos ('Recollections of Pierre Gilliard'). On Russian websites and sources, it is said that photo was taken by that French tutor in March of 1917. I can show the link, if needed.

Now come Alexei's photos near the tree and the cannon near by.

Mademoiselle Vyrubova labels the photo:

(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Aleksej/05502181-7.jpg)

Gen. Voeikov and g (?) D. Alexei, Mogileff, 1916. (I believe that Commandant Voeikov IS in the photo ).  Voeikov's memories, 1917 :



On Wednesday, 22. February, Emperor, going in the morning from AP to the Imperial pavilion, went by the Fyodorovsky Sabor where traditionally was served moleban
(Church Service) prior to his departure. The ring of the bell from Fyodorovsky State Sabor was greeting the White Tsar for the last time...At 2 p.m. Imperial Train went by Nikolayevsky railroad, going trough Lihoslavavl, Wyazma and Orsha to Mogilev.

On the day of leaving, I went in the morning to AP to greet with Alexei Nicholaievich. He was lying in his bed with white patch around his neck. He seemed to have been suffering of measles. Despite his illness, he was very kind and attentive....I have never seen him again.
-- Reading this, I must admit, I couldn't have remained indifferent and I cried.

So , Voeikov saw Heir for the last time In February. So, this photo couldn't have been taken in March. If this is same winter, I would rather say that photo was taken in 1916, or at least, not in March of 1917.

But Alexei went to Stavka in May of 1916. SO this can't be early 1916, but perhaps the end of 1915?

I am really confused. What do the others think?

Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Andreas1066 on February 18, 2010, 02:28:02 AM
Yesterday, I came across a photo on a website which showed OTMA, together with Nicholas and two other men in army officers' uniforms, sitting in line in front of a hedge.  (I'm afraid I can't remember which site, as I was using Google image search.)  I think it may even have been taken on the same day as some of the other photos in this thread, because OTMA were dressed in a very similar way (woolen hats, blouses and cardigans, long skirts, and tall boots).  I wondered if anyone knew the photo I mean, and whether there was a larger version of it?  The one on the website was rather small.  Many thanks!

Update: I managed to find it again.  It is the 11th one down on here: http://impishanastasia.webs.com/mewithmyfamily.htm   If anyone knows of a bigger version, I'd be very interested.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Ally Kumari on February 18, 2010, 03:55:22 AM
I don´= t hev the picture any bigger. But It is not a captivity photo, to my knowledge it was taken in Mogilev, during one of Tsarina and her daughters´ visit to main headquaters.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Teddy on February 18, 2010, 04:17:45 AM
  Yesterday, I came across a photo on a website which showed OTMA, together with Nicholas and two other men in army officers' uniforms, sitting in line in front of a hedge.  (I'm afraid I can't remember which site, as I was using Google image search.)  I think it may even have been taken on the same day as some of the other photos in this thread, because OTMA were dressed in a very similar way (woolen hats, blouses and cardigans, long skirts, and tall boots).  I wondered if anyone knew the photo I mean, and whether there was a larger version of it?  The one on the website was rather small.  Many thanks! Update: I managed to find it again.  It is the 11th one down on here: http://impishanastasia.webs.com/mewithmyfamily.htm   If anyone knows of a bigger version, I'd be very interested.

No the picture is made in 1916 in Mogilev if I remember.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sarushka on February 18, 2010, 08:17:33 AM
I *think* this is bigger:

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Stavka/th_MariaNicholasTatianaAnastasiaandOlg.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Stavka/?action=view&current=MariaNicholasTatianaAnastasiaandOlg.jpg)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on March 27, 2010, 03:02:41 PM
and interesing grouping, most likely taken the same day

(http://i032.radikal.ru/0711/8a/f6de53f0b9cdt.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/F/i032.radikal.ru/0711/8a/f6de53f0b9cd.jpg.html)(http://i046.radikal.ru/0711/ba/0bd00496b167t.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/F/i046.radikal.ru/0711/ba/0bd00496b167.jpg.html)(http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/greenhouse2a.jpg)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on March 29, 2010, 12:24:53 AM
found in my Tobolsk file...I thought it looked somewhat familar.So the above two photos are actually one..
and the man next to Alexis is not the Tsar...he's off to the side a  bit
(http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/expand-jfellow1.jpg)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on March 29, 2010, 08:09:43 PM
Amazingly since I posted that photo yesterday ,my longed for, finally got,  copy of Pierre Gillard's "13 years at  the Russian court "  from Gilbert's came today and the  photo of the family taking exercise is in there...so Pierre Gillard took it and he calls the male figure next to Alexis, " an officer of the guard".  He also says about the group photo of the loyal retinue, taken  in a photographic studio in Tobolsk ...that they were compelled to take the photo. It's amazing what captions can tell you, even if the reproduction of the photos are awful .
(http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/th_heros_2.jpg) (http://s792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/?action=view&current=heros_2.jpg)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: nena on April 03, 2010, 05:45:36 AM
and interesing grouping, most likely taken the same day
Am completely agreed. Another two have been taken at Greenhouse's roof nearby the Governor's mansion.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on July 07, 2010, 10:31:47 PM
(http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Alexis/teainTobolsk.jpg)
Isn't this photo taken in Nicholas and Alix's bedroom in Toblok. I ask because Alexis  is in his bed  and the sun seems to be right .
Sorry if this has been discussed
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: EmmyLee on July 08, 2010, 04:16:37 PM
and interesing grouping, most likely taken the same day

Ah! You're probably right, what with Olga's scarf and hat.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on July 08, 2010, 09:58:52 PM
Exactly EmmyLee...all the clothes are a match.  Tatiana's black jacket etc. Plus taking pictures doesn't seem to be the everyday event it was while free...making it the same day more likely.   Many site Olga sitting apart on one of the roof pictures as prove she was removed from the family. Yet on the same day  , we see Marie and Olga in conversation...( Marie seems to be listening attentively ) indeed the only ones  in the courtyard photo to be doing so . 
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Dust_of_History on July 09, 2010, 05:57:58 PM
Many site Olga sitting apart on one of the roof pictures as prove she was removed from the family.

Yes, now that you mention it, this could indeed be an indication that Maria was isolated within the family. Interesting, I never noticed that.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on July 09, 2010, 07:46:15 PM
Many site Olga sitting apart on one of the roof pictures as prove she was removed from the family.

Yes, now that you mention it, this could indeed be an indication that Maria was isolated within the family. Interesting, I never noticed that.

Did you  mean to write  " Olga"  there? I was referring to a photo of Olga N. It's an old idea...however as another photo taken that same day shows, she's in the middle of things. As far as I can see,  Olga was engaged in the family doings till the end...in charge along with Tatiana in Toblok, sewing in jewels, sitting with Alexis, answering the officers rescue letters...etc.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Dust_of_History on July 10, 2010, 12:15:45 PM
Oh sorry, I confused Olga with Maria. :-)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Tatiana Z on February 09, 2011, 08:17:34 AM
Tatiana .
Photographed at Tobolsk, Siberia, while detained there with her family from August 1917 until April 1918


(http://s51.radikal.ru/i132/1102/94/aa3ccf164118t.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/F/s51.radikal.ru/i132/1102/94/aa3ccf164118.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sarushka on February 09, 2011, 08:24:10 AM
This can't be the governor's house in Tobolsk -- the balcony railing and the trim along the roofline don't match. ;^)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on February 19, 2011, 09:40:53 PM
These three photos have been chasing each other in my files for a long time. I finally have them together and thought they would be interesting to post. It's three photos of the GD's room at Tobolsk when they were three....the visible  beds are Anastasia  and Marie's...Olga and Tatiana's being opposite. I 'm posting the photos  as a pan from left to right. Of course that is Anastasia at the table in the first one.  It's touching how they tried to recreate AP here . Who wouldn't love to see clearly  the photos on the walls ? In the last one we see what appears to be identical jackets on the chairs

(http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Somewhere/th_toblok.jpg) (http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Somewhere/toblok.jpg)(http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Somewhere/th_GDroomtobolk.jpg) (http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Somewhere/GDroomtobolk.jpg)(http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Somewhere/th_toboljsksobavelikihknjeginja.jpg) (http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Somewhere/toboljsksobavelikihknjeginja.jpg)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: MademoiselleAndrea on February 20, 2011, 08:41:50 AM
Recreate AP? In what way?
I'm using those photos as a basis for OTMA's bedroom in Days at Tobolsk... Interesting how they draped so many cloths all around. I'm going to be doing that, as well as all those photos. Those would be interesting to post in the "Pictures of Romanovs in pictures of Romanovs" thread. I've already identified three of them!  :D (and printed one so far for above A's bed.)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sarushka on February 20, 2011, 09:19:41 AM
Recreate AP? In what way?

The basic arrangement of the furniture is the same as the girls' bedrooms at the AP -- nightstand and cot with a chair at the foot to drape their clothes over. Lots of photos on the walls. That sort of thing.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on February 20, 2011, 10:19:24 AM
Indeed, Sarushka . The Olga in bed with braids photo comes to mind as an example of the AP armaments.  But here,instead of screens, they placed clothes on the walls .  The way they have arranged it and the height , if you were sitting on the sofas or lying in bed, you would easy see only what they themselves put on the walls...of course it's fascinating to see so much embroidery on the pillows  after hearing how  it occupied their time, from young girlhood really .  As GrandDuchessAndrea pointed out , material is draped in many places , even on the chair Anastasia is using. Reminds of how  the tennis courts would have oriental rugs in the sitting areas
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: matushka on February 20, 2011, 02:14:02 PM
That is a russian habit/tradition to fix some carpets of bog shawl on the wall.
Is that me? It looks like there is a portrait, a drawing of Demekov near Marie's bed? Or is that someone else?
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: MademoiselleAndrea on February 20, 2011, 02:34:49 PM
I thought that was Anastasia's bed and that the drawing was the one Tatiana (?) did of one of their tutors.  ???
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Nicolá De Valerón on February 20, 2011, 03:35:08 PM
Is that me? It looks like there is a portrait, a drawing of Demekov near Marie's bed? Or is that someone else?

Matushka, good eye! It seems to me also that this is Demenkov's portrait;). Little touch that gives us some more reflections about Maria's feelings...

Does anybody has this photo in better quality/higher resolution to define more clearly?
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: EmmyLee on February 21, 2011, 12:25:47 PM
Annie, I've never seen that second photo! Thank you for a slightly different perspective on the room.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Holly on February 21, 2011, 03:42:45 PM
The bed with the portrait above it is supposed to be Anastasia's bed and the one next to it is Olga's.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sarushka on February 21, 2011, 04:35:28 PM
The bed with the portrait above it is supposed to be Anastasia's bed and the one next to it is Olga's.

That's different from what it says in Trewin's book. I have no idea if Trewin's right -- where'd you pick up the other info?
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on February 21, 2011, 09:15:18 PM
EmmyLee, the 2nd photo was sold at Christie's in the 90's, I have the catalog and I enlarged it via the  scanner... I wanted the others to surface in my files before posting and you are more than welcome =)

Is that  the drawing of KR's son, Oleg? and the Stardart?...also the Oct 4th 1916 Cossack photo op?
...my understanding this is AN and MN's beds .
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: MademoiselleAndrea on February 22, 2011, 11:44:40 AM
A book I have says that Anastasia's bed is on the left, and Maria's on the right.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on February 22, 2011, 09:49:36 PM
Sarushka's  mention of Trewin's book made me look it up ( thank you! ) and the photo of the girl's room it has pans even more to the right than the ones I posted....shows the door way ... So I include it here . The Imperial eagle is on one of the pillows...plus a scan of the whole photo in the book

(http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Romanov%20postings/th_doorway.jpg) (http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Romanov%20postings/doorway.jpg)

(http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Romanov%20postings/th_overallGDroom.jpg) (http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Romanov%20postings/overallGDroom.jpg)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: nena on February 26, 2011, 02:20:53 PM
1917 with two guards and Prince D....all with the wooden snow paddles...I call them guards because they have swords, but not sure 

(http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Botkin/th_1917.jpg) (http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Botkin/1917.jpg)

Tsarskoe Selo, early months of 1917. I don't know if this one had ben psoted here.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on February 26, 2011, 09:58:21 PM
Thank you! I should have posted it here as well!
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: rosieposie on February 28, 2011, 04:15:56 PM
It's nice to see they had a collage of photos on the wall.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on March 15, 2011, 11:06:16 PM
(http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Romanov%20postings/th_ANT.jpg) (http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Romanov%20postings/ANT.jpg)

Anastasia in the Grand Duchesses bed room at Tobolsk. Larger and a bit fuller. I now know it was a
material covered chair on her left. All this time it looked like laundry!
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: nena on March 16, 2011, 12:33:50 PM
No matter how many times I have seen that photo, I just realize how rare it is! She looks older, I must admit. And, does anyone has information about the exact date of taking the photo? 
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on March 16, 2011, 07:52:04 PM
What gets me is the sense of sadness....It's a rare photo indeed... other wise we haven't as clear or as close a photo of one of the family indoors at Tobolsk...just the fuzzy luncheon and tea times.  Her hair is fairly long...perhaps Spring of 1918?
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Holly on March 16, 2011, 09:57:34 PM
I think March/April, 1918. I remember seeing it dated but I can't recall where at this time.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on May 11, 2011, 09:11:29 PM
(http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Romanov%20postings/th_APgarden.jpg) (http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Romanov%20postings/APgarden.jpg)

It's interesting to see the Tsar using a rope as a measure for a garden bed....so
that's how they kept them uniform ....scanned from a book
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sarushka on May 12, 2011, 08:44:24 AM
I don't recall seeing that posted before. What book is it from?
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on May 12, 2011, 02:14:37 PM
" Nicholas II  The last tsar"   by Marvin Lyons...on page 211 and tiny . The hight of that shed is remarkable! lol!
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sarushka on May 12, 2011, 03:33:35 PM
" Nicholas II  The last tsar"   by Marvin Lyons...on page 211 and tiny .

It's clearly time for me to re-browse all my Romanov photo-albums...
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: nena on May 13, 2011, 04:21:42 PM
Could be the man on the far left be Dr. Derevenko, Kolia's father? I think so because of his face construction and beard. By the way, it is new to me . :-).
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sarushka on May 13, 2011, 04:23:06 PM
Could be the man on the far left be Dr. Derevenko, Kolia's father? I think so because of his face construction and beard.

I thought so too.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: aleksandr pavlovich on May 13, 2011, 04:50:13 PM
Re Replies # 277 and 278:  It is he.  Marvin Lyons' book states:  "Nicholas and Dr. Derevenko working in the garden, 17 May 1917." (Page 211, photo # 341)    Regards,  AP.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: RHB on May 13, 2011, 05:35:34 PM
Is it just me or is there possibly a Grand Duchess in the back near the shed... I see what looks like a skirt!
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: aleksandr pavlovich on May 13, 2011, 05:57:57 PM
Re Reply # 280:  So that you may discover similiarities for your answer, there are a number of VERY well-known photos from this and other garden "exercises" that depict the presence of members of the IF/support staff relative to activity at the garden site/s.  Basic perusal of almost ANY well-illustrated volume (or, indeed, in the topics of the APTM Forum) that includes the AP captivity will include these, including the famous seated version/s in front of the shed.    AP.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on May 13, 2011, 06:19:34 PM
looks like a GD to me!....  lots of strips of sod are still there before being carried away and Nicholas is about to dig another bed, so indeed this is early. I generated this file of the tiny printed photo by using my digital camera to take its picture ....worked out well.  I believe that is Nicholas's servant, Zhuravski on the right with his back to us . There are two fairly rare other photos showing him, NA and surprisingly AN on the opposite page. I'll scan them this evening
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: RHB on May 13, 2011, 06:43:35 PM
I was thinking that was who the GD was given what looked like the height! So I'm not the only one to notice!
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on May 13, 2011, 10:24:45 PM
(http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Romanov%20postings/th_woodgathering.jpg) (http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Romanov%20postings/woodgathering.jpg)(http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Romanov%20postings/th_logcutting.jpg) (http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Romanov%20postings/logcutting.jpg)(http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Romanov%20postings/th_APmay1917.jpg) (http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Romanov%20postings/APmay1917.jpg)

In the first photo, Nicholas's servant, Zhuravski, Prince D. AN , NA II  and guard. Not sure what's going on in the 2nd photo...but there's the Tsar looking on ...also the recent post done on the scanner....I now see a GD behind Nicholas as well....so on either side of the shed...imo
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: RHB on May 13, 2011, 10:34:48 PM
Tatiana maybe? It looks like it height wise... but of course since we can't actually see them i could be wrong!
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: aleksandr pavlovich on May 14, 2011, 10:41:43 AM
Re Post 284:  Concerning the activity in the second photo, the Lyons' book gives the following:  "Nicholas cutting a wood with his servant, Zhuravski."  Page 211, Photo 336 (located on Page 210).  Quite apparently, they were seeking to divide and move/remove a formerly cut or fallen remanent of a tree.    AP.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on May 14, 2011, 11:52:38 AM
Indeed that's what it says AP, but the man in that 2nd photo doesn't seem to have a beard or glasses like Zhuravski. does....perhaps Zhuravski.  shaved or was near sighted and  didn't need glasses for close work  and it's him on another day? But he doesn't look like the same gentleman on the left( with the axe) in the first picture...and is not in a suit as Zhuravski. seemed to always wear, but a "Russian " shirt...looks like another person to me. Also I thought in that 2nd picture they might be measuring the trunk...or some such . Whatever is going on,  it has N II's keen interest
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: aleksandr pavlovich on May 14, 2011, 12:10:26 PM
  Re Reply # 287:  As for the servant Zhuravski, he is identified twice in the Lyons' book on pp. 210 and 211.  In  both cases he is dressed the same (Russian shirt) and has no facial hair/glasses.  He is specifically identified in photo # 139 as standing on the side of the Grand Duchess AN ("On either side of Anastasia, Prince Dolgoruki (wearing a cap) and Zhuravski."  While I am not terribly conversant with the servant Zhuravski, I AM certain that Prince Dolgoruki IS correctly identified, thus I trust that then Zhuravski is correctly identified by virture of specific location (with Dolgoruki and Zhuravski on EITHER side of AN, not both on the SAME side, as it would be if you indicate the man with the axe) within the group and being named/identified as such in two different photos.  
  For comparasion, have you other positively identified photos of "Zhuravski" wearing a beard/glasses and dressed "in a suit" that (he) "seemed to always wear"? Also you will note that OTHER palace servants are indicated in the "wood-cutting party" photo, which could potentially include the man with the axe.  
                                                                                                                                          Regards,  AP.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on May 14, 2011, 08:43:05 PM
My understanding  is the man in the suit with an  axe on AN's right side is Zhuravski . I've seen it elsewhere and can't remember now where  ( of course, just when I need to) But my main point is that man doesn't seem to be  the same fellow as the man in the 2nd photo I posted with NA even though both are identified in Lyon's book as Zhuravski  ....in truth either one could be Zhuravski.  My point is they don't look like the same man to me . One has glasses and a beard...the other has no glasses  and just a mustache. How Prince Dolgoruki got into this discussion I'm not sure...of course that is  Count Fredrick's stepson, Prince Dolgoruki next to and slightly behind AN.  I called him Prince D. in my first post . Are you saying because the book is right about the Prince, it can't be wrong about Zhuravski? That's an interesting approach to photo captions ! lol!  =)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: aleksandr pavlovich on May 14, 2011, 09:21:12 PM
   Re Post # 289:  Hello, again!  You write:  "My understanding is that the man in the suit.......is Zhuravski."  "Understanding" based on what, specifically?  Hopefully, you will soon be able to recall the source of your "understanding," as I would be interested, and would gladly stand corrected based upon proven documentation.
   I most definitely agree that the "man in the suit" is NOT the man pictured in the photo of the Emperor and the man that Marvin Lyons identifies (twice) as the servant "Zhuravski."  Please refer to your post and look at the first and second photos of the individual labelled " Zhuravski."  The features of the face (ie. nose, hairline, etc., and as to a "moustache" in the second photo, I believe it to be a shadow), IMO are the same, with the photos taken perhaps minutes/hours apart. Not at all like the "Axeman," who is NOT identified by name.
   Until positive, labeled, and source-documented photo/photos are produced on behalf of the "Axeman" being "Zhuravski," then in the clear absence of such, IMO Lyons has identified the servant Zhuarvsiki two separate times. Again, I would note that Lyons clearly states that Prince Dolgoruki and Zhuravski individually flank the GD AN on EITHER side (of her).  If you were to consider "The Axeman" as truly "Zhuravski,"  then BOTH he and Prince Dolgoruki are on the SAME side of her, ie. to her right, NOT on EITHER side. (This, by the way, is "How Prince Dolgoruki got into this conversation....," as a pivotal placement-marker, if you will.)  Consequently, I look forward to your (or others) posting/s of pictures documented as "Zhuravski," so that correct comparasions can truly be drawn.  
   Many thanks for your observations/opinions!     AP.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on May 14, 2011, 11:27:51 PM
Quote
If you were to consider "The Axeman" as truly "Zhuravski,"  then BOTH he and Prince Dolgoruki are on the SAME side of her, ie. to her right, NOT on EITHER side
Ah! much clearer now! Thank you
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: aleksandr pavlovich on May 14, 2011, 11:30:53 PM
My pleasure!   Regards,  AP.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on May 30, 2011, 11:10:27 PM
(http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Romanov%20postings/th_APmay1917.jpg)(http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Romanov%20postings/th_GDshed.jpg) (http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Romanov%20postings/GDshed.jpg)(http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Romanov%20postings/th_TNANwater.jpg) (http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Romanov%20postings/TNANwater.jpg)
 I posted this photo earlier and there was question if there were members of OTMA at the shed. I scanned it larger and it seems to me there are ...on either side . No way of knowing who...but I have a suggestion 
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: RHB on May 31, 2011, 01:13:11 AM
Oh yeah... now that i look at those it possibly could be Tatiana and Anastasia! Thanks for blowing it up!  :)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on May 31, 2011, 02:35:28 AM
(http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Romanov%20postings/th_apgarden17.jpg) (http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Romanov%20postings/apgarden17.jpg)
Here is a photo that could be taken at that time or near it. In the book, The Romanovs Love power and Tragedy, on page 299 this photo appears. It identifies the sailor as Nagorny, which makes sense. It seems Nicholas is checking to see if the garden bed he dug is  straight....Nagorny has string in his hands and string was used in the earlier photo. The book identifies the man behind N II as Prince Dolgorukov....since the man has a sword, and is therefore armed,  I'm not sure. Countess Hendrikova is in the background looking for something it seems . We see her in  the same outfit speaking with Olga in the garden resting  photo with Olga, Alexis Anastasia and Tatiana
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Ekaterina-Nikolaevna on June 07, 2011, 02:38:06 PM
(http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Romanov%20postings/th_APmay1917.jpg)(http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Romanov%20postings/th_GDshed.jpg) (http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Romanov%20postings/GDshed.jpg)(http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Romanov%20postings/th_TNANwater.jpg) (http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Romanov%20postings/TNANwater.jpg)
 I posted this photo earlier and there was question if there were members of OTMA at the shed. I scanned it larger and it seems to me there are ...on either side . No way of knowing who...but I have a suggestion 
All of these are new to me - thanks very much!
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on June 08, 2011, 02:37:59 AM
You are welcome! I'll be posting a much bigger version of the last one shortly
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on June 09, 2011, 12:40:24 AM
(http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Somewhere/th_TNANwater17.jpg) (http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Somewhere/TNANwater17.jpg)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on August 07, 2011, 08:14:26 PM
I'm sure this had been noticed and discussed before but, while looking at a photo of the Tsar and Gillard ( it was his turn! ) cutting wood in Tobolsk, ,  I noticed a figure on the balcony above the main entrance . Seems like a GD going inside,  who is  glancing at the scene below as she does

(http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Botkin/th_cuttingwood.jpg) (http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Botkin/cuttingwood.jpg)(http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Botkin/th_DSC03785.jpg) (http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Botkin/DSC03785.jpg)(http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Botkin/th_DSC03780.jpg) (http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Botkin/DSC03780.jpg)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sunny on August 08, 2011, 04:35:40 AM
Ann i had NEVER noticed it O_O amazing!
It's hard to tell, but she seems not too tall. Olga? Anastasia?
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: nena on August 11, 2011, 10:43:13 AM
Wow -- what a good eye, blessOTMA!!!
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on August 11, 2011, 11:46:09 AM
Wow -- what a good eye, blessOTMA!!!
Thank you my friend! I just noticed in the first photo  there is a guard standing across from the front entrance.
He is just where a guard stood in Gilliard's  photo of the  family walking. So perhaps this spot was a guard  post
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: LondonGirl on September 10, 2011, 09:54:17 AM
There is also a photo of Tatiana and Anastasia on the Rus going to Ekaterinburg, from the same time as the one of Olga and Alexei.

Is it certain they are from as late as 1918 - I believe the imperial family also travelled TO Tobolsk aboard Rus.???

I find it odd there are no photos from later - although of course the excuse given was confiscation of the cameras. It just always strikes me as a little odd.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: nena on September 10, 2011, 01:01:12 PM
Is it certain they are from as late as 1918 - I believe the imperial family also travelled TO Tobolsk aboard Rus?
Yes, they did. The photos were taken on Rus in May of 1918, I think that the description comes from 'House of Special Purpose', by Trewin? I believe it is valid. In Ekaterinburg, taking photos was completely forbidden. I once found the photo of the Tsar in wheelchair to have been taken in Ipatiev House, but it is most likely fake.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: aleksandr pavlovich on September 10, 2011, 04:05:41 PM
Is it certain they are from as late as 1918 - I believe the imperial family also travelled TO Tobolsk aboard Rus?
Yes, they did. The photos were taken on Rus in May of 1918, I think that the description comes from 'House of Special Purpose', by Trewin? I believe it is valid. In Ekaterinburg, taking photos was completely forbidden. I once found the photo of the Tsar in wheelchair to have been taken in Ipatiev House, but it is most likely fake.

  Hello, "nena"!  I think the photo to which you refer (of the Emperor in a robe being shown sitting near a bed in a wheel-chair) is illustrated as the final photo in Marvin Lyons' book, "Nicholas II, The Last Tsar,"  St. Martin's Press, New York, NY, USA, 1974.  It is on unnumbered page 217 and as numbered illustration # 356, but oddly it does not have a description (thus no location is given). The "Picture Sources" on page # 224 give credit to an "E. Uhlenhuth", potentially from the collection of "Princess Eugenie of Greece."  
  Interestingly, in close proximity to # 356, this "Uhlenhuth" is also given credit to illustration # 354, "One of the guards" at Tobolsk, as well as #352, "Tatiana and an unidentified child," again at Tobolsk.
  As to the location shown in the interior photograph of the Emperor in the wheelchair, I am not conversant enough with the different wall-papers, curtains, etc. of the various locations in which the Emperor would have been, to comment further.                                Regards, AP.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Robert_Hall on September 10, 2011, 04:41:10 PM
I wonder, was that the same wheel chair Alexandra used or did  they have a different one for the Emperor ?
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: aleksandr pavlovich on September 10, 2011, 04:46:47 PM
I wonder, was that the same wheel chair Alexandra used or did  they have a different one for the Emperor ?
 Hello, Robert!  At the moment, I have no idea, as I have no expanded source material presently in front of me with which to refer/compare.
  Parenthetically, I remember as well, at various times/locations, the Heir also had needs of a wheel chair, but perhaps smaller framed? I cannot immediately recall a photo of the Heir in such a chair, though. Perhaps it was not earlier "politically/dynastically expedient" to show such, though at various times the general populace saw him being CARRIED on even formal occasion/s.                                                             Regards,  AP.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Robert_Hall on September 10, 2011, 05:13:55 PM
I had not thought of Alexei, AP.  With his growth spurts, I would imagine he  would have gone through several chairs.  Whilst in the Palace, they would have no problem getting them. After that, though, I imagine they had to do with what they brought with them.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sarushka on September 10, 2011, 05:14:10 PM
Yes, they did. The photos were taken on Rus in May of 1918, I think that the description comes from 'House of Special Purpose', by Trewin? I believe it is valid.

That's correct. Those photos were taken by Gibbes.


Quote
In Ekaterinburg, taking photos was completely forbidden. I once found the photo of the Tsar in wheelchair to have been taken in Ipatiev House, but it is most likely fake.

I know the one you mean -- there are actually two different versions of it:
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/NII/th_scan0022.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/NII/?action=view&current=scan0022.jpg) (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/NII/th_scan0023.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/NII/?action=view&current=scan0023.jpg)

More than one source erroneously captions these as the last photos of Nicholas II. In fact, they were taken in the Crimea in 1900 while the tsar was recovering from a near-fatal bout with typhoid.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Robert_Hall on September 10, 2011, 05:48:58 PM
Thank you Sarushka,  I did not think  this was taken in Yekaterinburg, the room is too filled with Alexandra's clutter.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on September 10, 2011, 06:59:20 PM
So many places I have seen that labeled as Yekaterinburg... yet look how young he looks and we only hear that  during that time , NII  was in bed for just a day with hemorrhoids at Yekaterinburg,...no major illness ...it's in the top ten misidentified it seems . Few would pose for  that photo unless they were back from death's door and sitting up was an accomplishment...as it was for him in 1900. But it does look like  the same chair...and while it may not be the very same chair, I can see Alix staying loyal to the same maker...( the family certainly had use for them ) and so a similarity is caused
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: LondonGirl on September 11, 2011, 01:11:12 PM
Is it certain they are from as late as 1918 - I believe the imperial family also travelled TO Tobolsk aboard Rus?
Yes, they did. The photos were taken on Rus in May of 1918, I think that the description comes from 'House of Special Purpose', by Trewin? I believe it is valid. In Ekaterinburg, taking photos was completely forbidden. I once found the photo of the Tsar in wheelchair to have been taken in Ipatiev House, but it is most likely fake.

Yes that wheelchair pic was from Livadia. But I wonder why photography was forbidden in the Ipatiev villa? It was clearly allowed at Tobolsk, and what possible use could photographs of the family in the rooms of the villa have been to potential rescuers, or even of the garden? They would not have seen them at the time and anyone interested could have seen the layout of the place from outside and got architect's plans anyway. It's one of those things that makes you think "Hmmmm....strange".

Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Robert_Hall on September 11, 2011, 01:41:20 PM
When you think about it London Girl, it is not that strange that they were forbidden photography.  First, it was denying them something they enjoyed. They were prisoners after all.  If any pictures were to be taken, they would be taken by their jailer's.
 Secondly,  the  Bolsheviks wanted no evidence left.  Hence the great secrecy of hiding the bodies.
 I would be curious to know if  their transfer to Yekaterinburg was even common knowledge out side of the  Party elite. Nena, Sarushka ? Help me out here please. Like, was it in the press of the day ? [before the executions]
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: LondonGirl on September 11, 2011, 03:10:04 PM
When you think about it London Girl, it is not that strange that they were forbidden photography.  First, it was denying them something they enjoyed. They were prisoners after all.  If any pictures were to be taken, they would be taken by their jailer's.
 Secondly,  the  Bolsheviks wanted no evidence left.  Hence the great secrecy of hiding the bodies.
 I would be curious to know if  their transfer to Yekaterinburg was even common knowledge out side of the  Party elite. Nena, Sarushka ? Help me out here please. Like, was it in the press of the day ? [before the executions]

Other domestic activities the family enjoyed were not immediately denied them. However, I seriously take issue with your second point - there was NO secrecy present regarding the hiding of the bodies. The site seemed to be common knowledge, as evidenced from the ease with which it was steered to be 'unmasked' in c.1979. Apparent evidence, in the form of minor personal effects, was left openly scattered around the Four Brothers site, for anyone to find. If that was an attempt at secrecy, then it is beyond pathetic.

It remains a fact that no photographic record of the Imperial family at the Ipatiev villa exists - which to me is slightly odd. Even if photographs were taken by the gaolers, then why have these not surfaced? What danger would they be after the event? The Imperial family were prisoners from the point at which Nicholas abdicated. Yet photographs exist up to the Ekaterinburg period. What was so different about the Ipatiev incarceration? According to established history it led to the murders - but if that was the plan then what difference would amateur domestic photographs have made?
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Robert_Hall on September 11, 2011, 03:28:24 PM
Would you publicly display photographs of  slaughtered children ?  Even the Manson  murders coroner's photos were suppressed.  You sure must remember the  quote from one of the burial  squad- "No one will ever know what we did to them" ? And, they were hidden behind a  large palisade that kept them from public view.
 The  bungled burial was indeed a  flop,  which is why they had to re do the whole thing and try to burn a couple of the bodies.  If that is not hiding the evidence, what is ? Also, it took decades to find them.
 And, IF there are photos, they are buried as well, in the Kremlin archives, only a bit of which has been accessed  by now. Personally, I doubt any such photos exists. That is just IMO though.
 And, what other pleasures ?  Cards.  I do not recall any singing around the piano.  Their religious devotion was restricted.  Food was meagre,.  As was exercise.  Contact with outside friends & family , even by post was  heavily controlled.
 By all accounts, including their own words, life  at Ipatiev house was  tedious, boring and generally uncomfortable. They did not even have privacy in the privy.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: LondonGirl on September 11, 2011, 03:43:11 PM
Would you publicly display photographs of  slaughtered children ?  Even the Manson  murders coroner's photos were suppressed.  You sure must remember the  quote from one of the burial  squad- "No one will ever know what we did to them" ? And, they were hidden behind a  large palisade that kept them from public view.
 The  bungled burial was indeed a  flop,  which is why they had to re do the whole thing and try to burn a couple of the bodies.  If that is not hiding the evidence, what is ? Also, it took decades to find them.
 And, IF there are photos, they are buried as well, in the Kremlin archives, only a bit of which has been accessed  by now. Personally, I doubt any such photos exists. That is just IMO though.
 And, what other pleasures ?  Cards.  I do not recall any singing around the piano.  Their religious devotion was restricted.  Food was meagre,.  As was exercise.  Contact with outside friends & family , even by post was  heavily controlled.
 By all accounts, including their own words, life  at Ipatiev house was  tedious, boring and generally uncomfortable. They did not even have privacy in the privy.

I'm not talking about murder scene pics, lol.

I mean harmless domestic photos - what would be the harm?

It did not take decades to find the bodies - it took decades before anyone wished them to be found. I have read the accounts of the 1970's 'discovery' of the grave site, and it has a heavy overtone of everyone knowing the site, but no-one really bothering until it had an indirect official sanction. It also coincided with the demoliton of the Ipatiev villa almost exactly - thus removing any hope of future forensic investigators aquiring more accurate evidence and samples.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Robert_Hall on September 11, 2011, 04:00:44 PM
That was my point, London Girl [BTW, I am a London Guy  almost half of of each year!]  Control.  Being  in a position to deny the once most powerful family in Russia of  something so simple. And, again, they did not want any pictures out of their captivity. Even today, prisoners are not allowed cameras  when in custody. It is  not unusual.
 Harm ? Well, they processed their own photos, that required chemicals. Potentially  a weapon for escape. And they were scare resources, considering the  situation. Who could they benefit ? They would not be sent out  for fear of secret messages hidden in  them. All sorts of security  concerns on the part of their gaolers, who, let's face it, were not that intelligent to begin with.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: nena on September 11, 2011, 04:11:39 PM
Mr. Robert, on May 16th 1918, the newspaper 'IZVESTIIA' published an interview with Yakovlev about former Tsar's transfer to Ekaterinburg - so it was vividly known out the Party! As for Ekaterinburg photos, two GDes asked if they may take photos. It was refused. It was recorded im Guards' Duty Book in 'Last Act of Tragedy', by Avdayev. Sarushka will know, she has the book!
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: LondonGirl on September 11, 2011, 04:20:05 PM
That was my point, London Girl [BTW, I am a London Guy  almost half of of each year!]  Control.  Being  in a position to deny the once most powerful family in Russia of  something so simple. And, again, they did not want any pictures out of their captivity. Even today, prisoners are not allowed cameras  when in custody. It is  not unusual.
 Harm ? Well, they processed their own photos, that required chemicals. Potentially  a weapon for escape. And they were scare resources, considering the  situation. Who could they benefit ? They would not be sent out  for fear of secret messages hidden in  them. All sorts of security  concerns on the part of their gaolers, who, let's face it, were not that intelligent to begin with.



Cool to hear you are a fellow Londoner! LOL. Nice to meet ya!  ;D

Yet such resources as the relatively harmless chemicals required were not denied them in Tobolsk nor in Tsarskoe Selo. I am a physics student - science is  not unfamiliar to me. I fail to see how chemicals utilised in photographic development in 1918 could have potential for escape weapons.

If such points are valid, then why were such substances not denied them under imprisonment in Tobolsk?
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: nena on September 11, 2011, 04:30:08 PM
Because, LondonGirl, I DOUBT that the Guards were into Chemistry, and they saw potential danger in every their move they did! Simply because Ekaterinburg was center of Reds in Ural, so logically they had more strict rules to the IF, than at Tobolsk, where the IF was far from the Bolsheviks in Ekaterinburg and they were treated better!

EDIT: I have one question about photos taken at Tobolsk - it is most likely that majority of them come from Giliard, Gibbes, right?...Was ANY of those taken by one of the IF member, developed while at Tobolsk and put in one of their private albums?!
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Robert_Hall on September 11, 2011, 05:22:39 PM
Good question, Nena and thank you for your answer.  Obviously, it would not be easy to hide the fact that they were in Yekaterinburg to the  locals,  and general readership in Russia at that time  might have been limited so word of mouth was probably the news carrier.
 I know nothing about chemistry, but  today, bombs can be made out of shaving cream, so who knows what they thought back then ? Especially in a mining town where chemicals were used in all sorts of projects.
 I still maintain this was a mater of control and repression. And thus- understandable. [on the part of their keepers].
 If any one of us ended up in custody, for any reason,  the first thing to  go is personal communication. Naturally they did not have mobile phones with cameras, but their equivalent  was denied them, just as it would be to us today.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on September 11, 2011, 05:35:53 PM
I remember reading the photo of the Tsar with Olga, Anastasia and Tatiana on the green house roof was smuggled to Anna.... but not sure. If Gillard and Gibbs had access to photo supplies at this time , so would  the family . Marie was knowledgeable about the process .It's hard to know if photos were taken and lost to history ...or simply not taken in the first place . But  in Tobolsk  I believe photographs  were made by the family ( AN at the desk in the girl's bedrom for exsample )  and they stopped snapping photos only when their cameras were taken away later in Yekaterinburg....because you are right. The family's experience at Tobolsk and at Yekaterinburg were worlds apart
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: nena on September 11, 2011, 05:49:02 PM
Thank you both for the answers. Also, the photo of the Empress and two daughters (I remember seeing an umbrella too) taken supposedly at the Governor's Mansion was also smuggled to Vyrubova, and she labeled it to have been taken at Tobosk in spring of 1918, allegedly(?) the last known photo of the Empress - is it true? I also think that there must be more unseen photos during captivity at Tobolsk...:-/
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: LondonGirl on September 11, 2011, 06:06:59 PM
Because, LondonGirl, I DOUBT that the Guards were into Chemistry, and they saw potential danger in every their move they did! Simply because Ekaterinburg was center of Reds in Ural, so logically they had more strict rules to the IF, than at Tobolsk, where the IF was far from the Bolsheviks in Ekaterinburg and they were treated better!

EDIT: I have one question about photos taken at Tobolsk - it is most likely that majority of them come from Giliard, Gibbes, right?...Was ANY of those taken by one of the IF member, developed while at Tobolsk and put in one of their private albums?!

Lol, you don't need to be into chemistry to have a lack of fear of photographic development chemicals. LOL.

I'm not trying to be facetious - I'm just stating points which have concerned me about the final months. A lot of points don't quite sit well. Yes Ekaterinburg was a centre of quite extreme revolutionary feeling, but the Imperial family was not in the hands of farm workers but the local committee. Lenin later sent his own agent to ascertain the status of the Imperial family as being unharmed due to rumours to the contrary, as I have read recently.

Tobolsk photos I have seen show Nicholas sawing wood, a nebulous view of 'people' on the balcony of the Governor's residence and a couple of views of the family sitting on the roof of the greenhouse to the side of the front yard. Who precisely took these photos is uncertain - they may have been a tutor (although the sawing wood one is less likely) or one of the family. The point is, they were permitted - yet apparently the cameras the Imperial Family possessed were confiscated on arrival at the Ipatiev villa. We know the imperial family was fond of photography - so it is quite likely that most photographs were made and developed by them prior to the Ekaterinburg period. Yet not after. Why would that be necessary??

I repeat - if this level of control was considered necessary at Ekaterinburg, why was it not necessary during the equal need for security to prevent potential escape at Tobolsk?
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Robert_Hall on September 11, 2011, 06:15:53 PM
Well, perhaps look at it this way, London Girl- Tobolsk was an exile, Yekaterinburg a prison. In Tobolsk, they most likely took with them what they needed  from the AP. Later, it was simply denied them. [limited resources and again, contol]
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: nena on September 11, 2011, 06:24:37 PM
But why did you then find it weird that the Guards were afraid of them taking photos, 'you don't see how chemical substances can help them to rescue'. Of course, I was ironical when I said that they weren't into chemistry....I understood that your point was that they(guards) had thought that chemical substances in developing the photos can help them (the IF) to rescue. Of course, it is NOT about those chemicals...It is about their fear that IF could escape easy, with every move they make. And you are not informed, the group photo on the greenhouse was taken by P. Giliard. And yes, I agree that some things are not clear/are confusing...

EDIT : I don't want to sound rude, by any line I write here - if there is misunderstanding, we can solve it. Thank you for reading! ;-)))
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: aleksandr pavlovich on September 11, 2011, 06:30:04 PM
I remember reading the photo of the Tsar with Olga, Anastasia and Tatiana on the green house roof was smuggled to Anna.... but not sure. If Gillard and Gibbs had access to photo supplies at this time , so would  the family . Marie was knowledgeable about the process .It's hard to know if photos were taken and lost to history ...or simply not taken in the first place . But  in Tobolsk  I believe photographs  were made by the family ( AN at the desk in the girl's bedrom for exsample )  and they stopped snapping photos only when their cameras were taken away later in Yekaterinburg....because you are right. The family's experience at Tobolsk and at Yekaterinburg were worlds apart
 
  As an Ekaterinburg thought:  I am doing this TOTALLY from memory and thus will gladly stand corrected, but was there not at least 1 (damaged) roll of hand camera film later found in the remains of the attempted burning in a stove in the Ipatiev House during the captors' hurried "clean-up" of the material remains of the Imperial Family?  The condition as undeveloped/developed was not indicated, thus we do not know if the "film" was a roll of negatives or unused film.  I rather suspect it was unused film, due to the earlier banning of cameras, and surmise that it WAS from the Imperial Family's belongings.   Regards,  AP.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: LondonGirl on September 11, 2011, 06:33:41 PM
Well, perhaps look at it this way, London Girl- Tobolsk was an exile, Yekaterinburg a prison.

Both places were prisons - exile does not conventionally involve a guarded compound. ;)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: nena on September 11, 2011, 06:49:02 PM
Yet the captivity at Tobolsk was easier to the IF/'till the spring of 1918, and you know it. ;-))

However, we are topic-off. Interesting post, AP! I also wonder if the last photo of Tsarina was the one I referred at, with umbrella held and 2 Grand Duchesses?
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: aleksandr pavlovich on September 11, 2011, 07:10:36 PM
Yet the captivity at Tobolsk was easier to the IF/'till the spring of 1918, and you know it. ;-))

However, we are topic-off. Interesting post, AP! I also wonder if the last photo of Tsarina was the one I referred at, with umbrella held and 2 Grand Duchesses?
                                                                                                                                                                                               
  Hello, "nena"!  I believe I know the photo to which you refer.  The seated Empress, looking towards the right, appears somewhat "sorrowful," but unfortunately I have no further knowledge concerning it.  Kind regards,  AP.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: LondonGirl on September 11, 2011, 07:26:06 PM
Yet the captivity at Tobolsk was easier to the IF/'till the spring of 1918, and you know it. ;-))

However, we are topic-off. Interesting post, AP! I also wonder if the last photo of Tsarina was the one I referred at, with umbrella held and 2 Grand Duchesses?

Yes slightly off topic - may I just ask how easy it would be for a normal girl to find life easy in a small compound enclosed by guards? i doubt it - I am a modern girl and I have two sisters, lol. we would hate it.

My point isn't that - my point is actually on topic despite this - I want to know why there are no photos of the family in Ekaterinburg, and so far I have had no intelligent answer.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Robert_Hall on September 11, 2011, 07:32:26 PM
What do you not understand, London Girl ?  Everything that has been posted explains your  questions.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: LondonGirl on September 11, 2011, 07:57:14 PM
What do you not understand, London Girl ?  Everything that has been posted explains your  questions.

It doesn't explain them - just seeks to dismiss them. I see a difference. I haven't yet had a good answer as to why there are no photos of the imperial family from the Ekaterinburg period.

Maybe I should state my concern. Okay - I shall.

We know the Imperial family allegedly arrived in Ekaterinburg in two stages, a month or so apart. Apparently upon arrival the photographic equipment they owned was confiscated. Whether this was upon arrival of Nicholas, Alexandra and Maria or upon final arrival of the rest of the family is unclear. They all owned cameras. Apparently a majority of the family's possessions remained unpacked, were the cameras with them or in the other luggage? Again not clear. The villa was secured from the gaze of curious Ekaterinburgers by first one and later two palisades, and by whitewashed windows. A limited access to the property was in force allowing only some nuns, cleaning women and occasional visits by local priests. The family was guarded by a regime permitting them access to the garden only for a strict time and under the watch of the guard. The rest of the time they were confined largely to their rooms in the villa. That is the basic picture we are told.

Why, when even access by priests was allowed however controlled and nervous the conditions, were photographs not permitted?  What was the fear? That someone 20 years later would see Anastasia on a swing? If they intended to murder the family, what was the point? Photos would simply confirm they were there, which people knew anyway. Why are they hidden now???
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sarushka on September 11, 2011, 08:21:44 PM
Yet the captivity at Tobolsk was easier to the IF/'till the spring of 1918, and you know it. ;-))

However, we are topic-off. Interesting post, AP! I also wonder if the last photo of Tsarina was the one I referred at, with umbrella held and 2 Grand Duchesses?
                                                                                                                                                                                               
  Hello, "nena"!  I believe I know the photo to which you refer.  The seated Empress, looking towards the right, appears somewhat "sorrowful," but unfortunately I have no further knowledge concerning it.  Kind regards,  AP.

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Arrest%20and%20Exile/th_aot1918.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Arrest%20and%20Exile/?action=view&current=aot1918.jpg)



It doesn't explain them - just seeks to dismiss them. I see a difference. I haven't yet had a good answer as to why there are no photos of the imperial family from the Ekaterinburg period.

If by "good" you mean logical, then there may not be a "good" answer. We simply don't know for sure. No guard testimony I'm aware of specifically addresses the issue. So if these answers don't satisfy you, you may just have to settle for being unsatisfied.


We know the Imperial family allegedly arrived in Ekaterinburg in two stages, a month or so apart.

Wait a minute -- "allegedly"? Where are you headed with this? Because if you're laying the framework for a survival theory, I need to move these questions to the Survivors forum (http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?board=10.0).
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: LondonGirl on September 11, 2011, 08:27:57 PM
Yet the captivity at Tobolsk was easier to the IF/'till the spring of 1918, and you know it. ;-))

However, we are topic-off. Interesting post, AP! I also wonder if the last photo of Tsarina was the one I referred at, with umbrella held and 2 Grand Duchesses?
                                                                                                                                                                                               
  Hello, "nena"!  I believe I know the photo to which you refer.  The seated Empress, looking towards the right, appears somewhat "sorrowful," but unfortunately I have no further knowledge concerning it.  Kind regards,  AP.

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Arrest%20and%20Exile/th_aot1918.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Arrest%20and%20Exile/?action=view&current=aot1918.jpg)



It doesn't explain them - just seeks to dismiss them. I see a difference. I haven't yet had a good answer as to why there are no photos of the imperial family from the Ekaterinburg period.

If by "good" you mean logical, then there may not be a "good" answer. We simply don't know for sure. No guard testimony I'm aware of specifically addresses the issue. So if these answers don't satisfy you, you may just have to settle for being unsatisfied.


We know the Imperial family allegedly arrived in Ekaterinburg in two stages, a month or so apart.

l].Wait a minute -- "allegedly"? Where are you headed with this? Because if you're laying the framework for a survival theory, I need to move these questions to the Survivors forum[/ur
 (http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?board=10.0)

No Sarushka - I'm not a conspiracy theorist - i just have a few questions about things that to me don't quite make sense. I try to keep them on topic though lol. But yes, i do find some aspects of the story fed normally to be a little hard to swallow, I admit. But no - I'm not promoting a theory. Just curious.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sarushka on September 11, 2011, 08:28:32 PM
EDIT: I have one question about photos taken at Tobolsk - it is most likely that majority of them come from Giliard, Gibbes, right?...Was ANY of those taken by one of the IF member, developed while at Tobolsk and put in one of their private albums?!

I'm 98% sure Maria learned how to develop photographs while in Tobolsk, but it'll take me a while to backtrack the source to confirm it.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Robert_Hall on September 11, 2011, 08:37:52 PM
I am out of here, this discussion is just going around in around in circles.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sunny on September 12, 2011, 03:56:04 AM
maybe mine will be an odd statement, but just to break the chain:

From Nena
Quote
But why did you then find it weird that the Guards were afraid of them taking photos, 'you don't see how chemical substances can help them to rescue'. Of course, I was ironical when I said that they weren't into chemistry....I understood that your point was that they(guards) had thought that chemical substances in developing the photos can help them (the IF) to rescue. Of course, it is NOT about those chemicals...It is about their fear that IF could escape easy, with every move they make. And you are not informed, the group photo on the greenhouse was taken by P. Giliard. And yes, I agree that some things are not clear/are confusing...

I am sure they feared an escape. It had been hard for the Uralsoviet to obtain formal permission to have the IF in Ekaterrinburg (in fact Yakovlev continued to try to take them to Moscow... but this is OT) so they won't let them escape or try to. But i've always thought they *also* feared that chemical substances could be used as *weapons*.
I mean: chemical sub. used to develope photos are irritating for human skin. I've worked for a photographer for a while, and i'm a goofy girl: it's not pleasant when you forget your gloves, LOL. Nothing really damaging, but though... maybe they feared it could also be a weapon.
*I can clearly see a laughing Anastasia threat the guard with a bottle of acid, LOL -  I'm joking of course*
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: LondonGirl on September 12, 2011, 12:43:49 PM
I remember reading the photo of the Tsar with Olga, Anastasia and Tatiana on the green house roof was smuggled to Anna.... but not sure. If Gillard and Gibbs had access to photo supplies at this time , so would  the family . Marie was knowledgeable about the process .It's hard to know if photos were taken and lost to history ...or simply not taken in the first place . But  in Tobolsk  I believe photographs  were made by the family ( AN at the desk in the girl's bedrom for exsample )  and they stopped snapping photos only when their cameras were taken away later in Yekaterinburg....because you are right. The family's experience at Tobolsk and at Yekaterinburg were worlds apart
 
  As an Ekaterinburg thought:  I am doing this TOTALLY from memory and thus will gladly stand corrected, but was there not at least 1 (damaged) roll of hand camera film later found in the remains of the attempted burning in a stove in the Ipatiev House during the captors' hurried "clean-up" of the material remains of the Imperial Family?  The condition as undeveloped/developed was not indicated, thus we do not know if the "film" was a roll of negatives or unused film.  I rather suspect it was unused film, due to the earlier banning of cameras, and surmise that it WAS from the Imperial Family's belongings.   Regards,  AP.

Yes, some rolls of Kodak film were found in the stoves of the Popov house across the road where the guards were living according to the inventory of searches made. The Inventory is on the main site here.

http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/yelist.html (http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/yelist.html)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: aleksandr pavlovich on September 12, 2011, 03:21:00 PM
I remember reading the photo of the Tsar with Olga, Anastasia and Tatiana on the green house roof was smuggled to Anna.... but not sure. If Gillard and Gibbs had access to photo supplies at this time , so would  the family . Marie was knowledgeable about the process .It's hard to know if photos were taken and lost to history ...or simply not taken in the first place . But  in Tobolsk  I believe photographs  were made by the family ( AN at the desk in the girl's bedrom for exsample )  and they stopped snapping photos only when their cameras were taken away later in Yekaterinburg....because you are right. The family's experience at Tobolsk and at Yekaterinburg were worlds apart
 
  As an Ekaterinburg thought:  I am doing this TOTALLY from memory and thus will gladly stand corrected, but was there not at least 1 (damaged) roll of hand camera film later found in the remains of the attempted burning in a stove in the Ipatiev House during the captors' hurried "clean-up" of the material remains of the Imperial Family?  The condition as undeveloped/developed was not indicated, thus we do not know if the "film" was a roll of negatives or unused film.  I rather suspect it was unused film, due to the earlier banning of cameras, and surmise that it WAS from the Imperial Family's belongings.   Regards,  AP.

Yes, some rolls of Kodak film were found in the stoves of the Popov house across the road where the guards were living according to the inventory of searches made. The Inventory is on the main site here.

http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/yelist.html (http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/yelist.html)

  I thank you for your response and clarification.      Regards,  AP.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Clemence on September 13, 2011, 12:32:15 PM
That was my point, London Girl [BTW, I am a London Guy  almost half of of each year!]  Control.  Being  in a position to deny the once most powerful family in Russia of  something so simple. And, again, they did not want any pictures out of their captivity. Even today, prisoners are not allowed cameras  when in custody. It is  not unusual.
 Harm ? Well, they processed their own photos, that required chemicals. Potentially  a weapon for escape. And they were scare resources, considering the  situation. Who could they benefit ? They would not be sent out  for fear of secret messages hidden in  them. All sorts of security  concerns on the part of their gaolers, who, let's face it, were not that intelligent to begin with.

I always believed it was a combination of hatred vs the imperial family and lack of money that made the guards deny them taking photoes - it must have been considered a luxury the IF should definetely be deprived of! and they had no money left, if I remember well they had even serious restrictions in food and hot water to use, I believe the use of cameras would be the last think to be considered but they somehow were to feel they were prisoners and hated in ekaterinburg.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Robert_Hall on September 13, 2011, 12:57:24 PM
Good point, Clemence. I had neglected the money issue. In those days, photography was a costly hobby.  I think most average Russian families had a wedding photo which they paid for at a studio and that was about it. The Romanovs  had thousands of family pictures.
[guess I am not totally "out of here" after all]
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: LondonGirl on September 13, 2011, 01:39:28 PM
I remember reading the photo of the Tsar with Olga, Anastasia and Tatiana on the green house roof was smuggled to Anna.... but not sure. If Gillard and Gibbs had access to photo supplies at this time , so would  the family . Marie was knowledgeable about the process .It's hard to know if photos were taken and lost to history ...or simply not taken in the first place . But  in Tobolsk  I believe photographs  were made by the family ( AN at the desk in the girl's bedrom for exsample )  and they stopped snapping photos only when their cameras were taken away later in Yekaterinburg....because you are right. The family's experience at Tobolsk and at Yekaterinburg were worlds apart
 
  As an Ekaterinburg thought:  I am doing this TOTALLY from memory and thus will gladly stand corrected, but was there not at least 1 (damaged) roll of hand camera film later found in the remains of the attempted burning in a stove in the Ipatiev House during the captors' hurried "clean-up" of the material remains of the Imperial Family?  The condition as undeveloped/developed was not indicated, thus we do not know if the "film" was a roll of negatives or unused film.  I rather suspect it was unused film, due to the earlier banning of cameras, and surmise that it WAS from the Imperial Family's belongings.   Regards,  AP.

Yes, some rolls of Kodak film were found in the stoves of the Popov house across the road where the guards were living according to the inventory of searches made. The Inventory is on the main site here.

http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/yelist.html (http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/yelist.html)

  I thank you for your response and clarification.      Regards,  AP.

No problem. In addition, according to the inventory published of searches made of various places by Nametkin and reproduced in Greg King's and Penny Wilson's book The Fate Of The Romanovs, a camera and two boxes containing respectively 16 and 17 glass negative plates were found among the items in the possession of former house guard Michael Letemin.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Clemence on September 17, 2011, 02:45:38 PM
sorry, I never saw this photo:

(http://russiapedia.rt.com/files/prominent-russians/the-romanov-dynasty/nicholas-ii/nicholas-ii_8.jpg)

I wonder if it is a captivity one?
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sarushka on September 17, 2011, 03:10:06 PM
Nope -- that was taken on board Standart, in approximately 1914.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Clemence on September 18, 2011, 01:14:14 AM
thank you saruska)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: figes74 on October 18, 2011, 08:05:19 AM
(http://img147.imagevenue.com/loc384/th_942625901_IMG2a_122_384lo.jpg) (http://img147.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=942625901_IMG2a_122_384lo.jpg)
                 

Has this photo been shown before? It was taken apparently in April 1917 after the Grand Duchesses illness's.  It is from Pierre Gillard's book '13 years at the Russian Court'. It's a rather lovely photo.
This is my first post by the way!
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on October 18, 2011, 10:18:21 PM
Welcome to AP posting figes74 ! That is a well known photo...most likely taken the same time as the one of Marie and the Tsar. But I'm wondering if it's from an older edition of PG 's book? like from  the 20's ? I seem to recall that's how the photos  looked and I can say it's a far  better copy than is usually seen. Thank you!
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sunny on October 19, 2011, 12:35:07 AM
Welcome to AP posting figes74 ! That is a well known photo...most likely taken the same time as the one of Marie and the Tsar. But I'm wondering if it's from an older edition of PG 's book? like from  the 20's ? I seem to recall that's how the photos  looked and I can say it's a far  better copy than is usually seen. Thank you!

I also was thinking it could be taken the same day as this:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/822/1917nm.jpg/ (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/822/1917nm.jpg/)
because Marie looks perfectly the same! ( I was thinking yesterday on the bus while reading The Fall OTR, this is R obsession, LOL)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on October 19, 2011, 10:20:59 PM
Welcome to AP posting figes74 ! That is a well known photo...most likely taken the same time as the one of Marie and the Tsar. But I'm wondering if it's from an older edition of PG 's book? like from  the 20's ? I seem to recall that's how the photos  looked and I can say it's a far  better copy than is usually seen. Thank you!
I also was thinking it could be taken the same day as this:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/822/1917nm.jpg/ (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/822/1917nm.jpg/)
because Marie looks perfectly the same! ( I was thinking yesterday on the bus while reading The Fall OTR, this is R obsession, LOL)
That's exactly the photo  I was speaking of Sunny. The pillow behind Marie's head is the same in both too. She was the last to recover and nearly died. Small wonder photos were taken just as she could sit up. Both photos are marvelous
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: figes74 on October 21, 2011, 01:23:35 PM

  (http://img235.imagevenue.com/loc117/th_221129450_IMG3b_122_117lo.jpg) (http://img235.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=221129450_IMG3b_122_117lo.jpg)
     
Olga and Tsar Nicholas chopping wood at Tobolsk.
From Peter Kurth's book 'Tsar'
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: figes74 on October 21, 2011, 02:06:11 PM
Welcome to AP posting figes74 ! That is a well known photo...most likely taken the same time as the one of Marie and the Tsar. But I'm wondering if it's from an older edition of PG 's book? like from  the 20's ? I seem to recall that's how the photos  looked and I can say it's a far  better copy than is usually seen. Thank you!

I'm not sure what year exactly but it is from the Third edition of the book
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: JamesAPrattIII on November 04, 2011, 06:01:10 PM
in the book "The File on the Tsar" there is a photo of N & A wearing coats which looks like it could be a post abbdication photo. Any one know when or where it might have been taken?
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: nena on November 05, 2011, 08:53:46 AM
Are you referring on Nicholas and Aleksei photo? Do you mean this one?

To me, Alexei's outfit looks of those from 1917.
The hat at least. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4f/AlexeiNicholas1917.jpg
It was taken at Tobolsk, then small Siberian town in winter of 1917/8.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on November 05, 2011, 03:19:27 PM
Oh my, I love that big file! Thank you! Yes it was AN's turn to cut wood with the Tsar! No one person could keep up with Nicky. The photos seem to tell us people took turns!
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: JamesAPrattIII on November 05, 2011, 09:33:47 PM
actually it was Nicholas and Alexandra. he has on an army greycoat and she has on a coat and a hat and it looks like they are sitting down. They both look old and tired. Also in flipping through the book "Nicholas and Alexandra" sometime after xmas 1917 the 2nd regiments soldiers committee voted for all officers to remove their epaulets including Nicholas. So if you see a picture of him wearing them at Tobolsk it is probably before this time. In Russian I think they are called Pogoni. during the revolution and civil war the Reds sometimes nailed them to their wears shoulders!
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sarushka on November 06, 2011, 08:43:38 AM
Taken at Tsarskoe Selo in the spring/summer of 1917:

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Arrest%20and%20Exile/th_alixnic1917.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Arrest%20and%20Exile/?action=view&current=alixnic1917.jpg)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: JamesAPrattIII on November 19, 2011, 08:42:14 PM
The photo of them in "The File on the Tsar" is a different one from what you posted. In it they are both facing the camera.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sarushka on November 19, 2011, 09:41:30 PM
The photo of them in "The File on the Tsar" is a different one from what you posted. In it they are both facing the camera.

Maybe it's a photo I'm not familiar with. The one I posted is the only photo I'm aware of that shows N&A together in captivity.


ETA --
Unless it's this one:
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/NAOTMAA%20assorted/th_AlixandNickyca.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/NAOTMAA%20assorted/?action=view&current=AlixandNickyca.jpg)
I believe this was taken in 1915 or 1916, during a cruise down the river Dneiper.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sunny on November 20, 2011, 04:21:03 AM
Sarah,

i have a couple more pics of Nicky and Alix i found labeled as spring 1917, so during Zarskoje Selo captivity.
This one i guess it was formal? I don't know - maybe you know better than me - maybe it was taken before February, as they themselves wrote 1917 on it. It's fairly common, though, nothing new. There are 3 versions, or, at least, i have 3 so far.
I have to warn you i uploaded them quite big.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/824/1917nickyealix1.jpg/ (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/824/1917nickyealix1.jpg/)
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/59/1917nickyealix2.jpg/ (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/59/1917nickyealix2.jpg/)
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/259/1917nickyealix3.jpg/ (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/259/1917nickyealix3.jpg/)

Moreover, i've this one labeled as 1917.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/214/1917nickyealix4.jpg/ (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/214/1917nickyealix4.jpg/)


Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: nena on November 20, 2011, 08:07:52 AM

ETA --
Unless it's this one:
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/NAOTMAA%20assorted/th_AlixandNickyca.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/NAOTMAA%20assorted/?action=view&current=AlixandNickyca.jpg)
I believe this was taken in 1915 or 1916, during a cruise down the river Dneiper.
Correct, I'd say 1916. GHQ was moved to Mogilev in August of 1915, so there is possibility that Alexandra visited her husband then, and they went on the outing along the Dnieper in late summer of 1915, but I still think it is 1916.
Quote
i have a couple more pics of Nicky and Alix i found labeled as spring 1917, so during Zarskoje Selo captivity.
This one i guess it was formal? I don't know - maybe you know better than me - maybe it was taken before February, as they themselves wrote 1917 on it. It's fairly common, though, nothing new. There are 3 versions, or, at least, i have 3 so far.
I have to warn you i uploaded them quite big.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/824/1917nickyealix1.jpg/ (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/824/1917nickyealix1.jpg/)
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/59/1917nickyealix2.jpg/ (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/59/1917nickyealix2.jpg/)
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/259/1917nickyealix3.jpg/ (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/259/1917nickyealix3.jpg/)

Alexei kept those in his bedroom, and I also think that they were taken in late 1916/ or in  1917, according to the label 'Ts. S., 1917'.
Quote
Moreover, i've this one labeled as 1917.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/214/1917nickyealix4.jpg/ (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/214/1917nickyealix4.jpg/)

This one was rather taken somewhere else and not in 1917, IMHO, I can't tell for sure...
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sunny on November 20, 2011, 09:36:37 AM

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/214/1917nickyealix4.jpg/ (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/214/1917nickyealix4.jpg/)

This one was rather taken somewhere else and not in 1917, IMHO, I can't tell for sure...
[/quote]

I'm doubtful too about it taken in 1917. Maybe Sarah knows better than us?
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Justine on November 20, 2011, 12:40:05 PM

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/824/1917nickyealix1.jpg/ (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/824/1917nickyealix1.jpg/)
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/59/1917nickyealix2.jpg/ (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/59/1917nickyealix2.jpg/)
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/259/1917nickyealix3.jpg/ (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/259/1917nickyealix3.jpg/)




I'm doubtful that these were taken in 1917(anywhere after WWI)-the hairstyle, style of dress & hat, their generally youthful looks leads me to believe that these picture were taken in late 1900s or early 1910s(I'm thinking rather 1908/09) & had just been signed in 1917.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sunny on November 20, 2011, 01:11:32 PM

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/824/1917nickyealix1.jpg/ (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/824/1917nickyealix1.jpg/)
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/59/1917nickyealix2.jpg/ (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/59/1917nickyealix2.jpg/)
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/259/1917nickyealix3.jpg/ (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/259/1917nickyealix3.jpg/)




I'm doubtful that these were taken in 1917(anywhere after WWI)-the hairstyle, style of dress & hat, their generally youthful looks leads me to believe that these picture were taken in late 1900s or early 1910s(I'm thinking rather 1908/09) & had just been signed in 1917.

I think yours is really a good point, Justine
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: JamesAPrattIII on November 21, 2011, 06:05:35 PM
thanks Saruchka thats the one looking at the coats it must be either very early or late in the year. i would also say 1916 as Nicholas and Alexandra both look old and tired and the war did age them both.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on November 22, 2011, 10:38:12 PM
They look like they are in a boat on the Dnieper River at the Army's HQ ...well in a boat in any case, That seems to be a boat's flag staff behind them
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on February 09, 2012, 02:18:44 AM
Alix on the balcony? ( with an umbrella? )

(http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/AP%20Postings%202/th_governorshouse.jpg) (http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/AP%20Postings%202/governorshouse.jpg)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: nena on February 09, 2012, 03:31:50 AM
That one is new to me -- well, it could be her -- I think the hairstyle and figure matches, though it's hard to tell. Thank you, blessOTMA.  If that is really her, we have the evidence that Anna Vyrubova indeed received a photo of the Tsarina and the two daughters taken at the Governor House's balcony in 1917/1918, and the second thing, Empress' photos from captivity, as well as Maria's ones are hard to find.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sarushka on February 09, 2012, 09:08:45 AM
New to me also.

The silhouette reminds me a bit of Naryshkina, but I don't remember if she accompanied the IF to Tobolsk.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: edubs31 on February 09, 2012, 10:59:02 AM

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/824/1917nickyealix1.jpg/ (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/824/1917nickyealix1.jpg/)
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/59/1917nickyealix2.jpg/ (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/59/1917nickyealix2.jpg/)
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/259/1917nickyealix3.jpg/ (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/259/1917nickyealix3.jpg/)




I'm doubtful that these were taken in 1917(anywhere after WWI)-the hairstyle, style of dress & hat, their generally youthful looks leads me to believe that these picture were taken in late 1900s or early 1910s(I'm thinking rather 1908/09) & had just been signed in 1917.

I agree with Justine but will take it a step further by saying there is just no way these photos were taken in 1917. This isn't a 49 and 45-year old couple we see here...far too youthful looking, especially Nicholas. Actually I think even 1908-10 is too late. In my opinion these are from around 1905...
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Alixz on February 09, 2012, 12:47:31 PM
I couldn't see it at all at first.  I had to take a second look, but now I see the figure on the left on the balcony. It is hard to tell who it might be and with no date??

It could be the governor's wife?
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sarushka on February 09, 2012, 02:23:42 PM

It could be the governor's wife?

Would the governor have had a soldier posted at the front entry?
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sunny on February 09, 2012, 02:52:27 PM
To be honest, the woman on the balcony seems to me having a hairstyle similar to that of AF in 1913 formal shots.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Alixz on February 09, 2012, 05:35:01 PM
The "soldier" doesn't look posted to me. He looks quite casual (look at his stance and he is not at "attention", his foot is bent in a casual way),  and I don't see any sign of weapons.

That is why I said "tongue in cheek" the governor's wife?  There is no one else around and no sign of guards.

Has anyone officially said that it is a photo of Alexandra in 1917?  The family was in Tobolsk mostly during the winter of 1917 -1918 and the dress looks quite "summery". Not at all a fall or winter garment. Not even something she would have worn in April of 1918 before she and Nicholas  Marie left for "Moscow" and ended up in Yekaterinburg.   Even the "soldier" looks lightly dressed without a great coat.

I don't know when the weather turns colder in Tobolsk, but since the family left the AP in August of 1917, they might have had some warm weather left in Siberia when they got there, but remember that the house had to be renovated for them and that would have brought their residency period into the fall.

JMHO.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on February 10, 2012, 12:01:07 AM
Here is the famous photo nena speaks of showing Alix and the Big Pair on the balcony. Note the parasol.
This is the best copy of it I have seen. It was doctored pretty heavy early on . The girls are fairly bald still
 as they are wearing tight  head scarfs

(http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/AP%20Postings%202/th_umbrella.jpg) (http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/AP%20Postings%202/umbrella.jpg)(http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/AP%20Postings%202/th_governorshoues2.jpg) (http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/AP%20Postings%202/governorshoues2.jpg)(http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/AP%20Postings%202/th_balcony.jpg) (http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/AP%20Postings%202/balcony.jpg)
To me the guard appears both armed and at attention. The weather stayed warm a long time that year.
 
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sunny on February 10, 2012, 12:42:43 AM
BlessOTMA, your version of AF&OT on the balcony is wonderful *___* far best than any i have. Thanks!!

Uhm, even if i continue looking at the Governor House photo, i continue to see AF with an umbrella... if it's not her, there's something wrong in my eyes.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Alixz on February 10, 2012, 09:57:57 AM
I am not trying to be "devil's advocate" here, but the guard is not at attention.  One leg is bent and it looks like his hands are in his pockets not holding anything. Or his thumbs are hooked over his belt.

When someone stands at attention or on "guard duty" they usually don't stand casually with one leg bent.  Even if he were holding a rifle at "port arms" his hands would be in front of him with the gun in plain sight.

To me, it looks like he is leaning casually with his left shoulder against the building.  Not an "at the ready" stance.

Where do you see a gun?  I have no doubt that this is the Governor's Mansion and that the woman on the balcony looks like Alexandra, but if that man is a guard, I would cite him for sloppy posture and dereliction of duty.

Where is Colonel Kobylinski when you need him?  :-)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Alixz on February 10, 2012, 10:14:54 AM
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k14/Livadia13/firearms_rifle_m1917enfield_500_02.jpg) (http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k14/Livadia13/untitled.jpg)

This is an American Soldier using a 1903 Springfield rifle which is what most countries used before and during WWI.  See What I mean about port arms or at the ready?

I used to teach color guard and this is the rife (without the bayonet) that the girls used.

Now the figure in the original picture looks like Nicholas II out for a smoke.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on February 10, 2012, 12:08:01 PM
(http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/AP%20Postings%202/gun.jpg)
 It seems to me the rifle is at his side., I don't believe the gun would be held chest high for the  hours
guard duty would require .But your idea its Nicholas has merit.
 He is sometimes mistaken for a guard ...like in this photo
(http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/AP%20Postings%202/th_intheyard.jpg) (http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/AP%20Postings%202/intheyard.jpg)
( the guard is next to Alexis , walking  and Nicholas is the last figure on the right, standing )

This was a regular  post in a good number of photos.  If this is Nicholas and not a guard, that would suggest this was indeed early in thier Tobolsk stay...before security was further tightened. Of course Nicholas would just be smoking while out ...it's only today people go outside to smoke! lol!  But the placement of figure on the balcony  suggests it's the Tsar as well...as they have aligned themselves with the man on the steps for the photo. I don't think they would for a guard
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Alixz on February 10, 2012, 12:24:00 PM
It is possible that the rife (if its there) is being held at "order arms", but the sloppy posture would be odd since the person would know that his picture was being taken and would, I think, not want to look less attentive that he should be.  Especially since there is a photographer in the area.  Wouldn't he (if its a guard) want to look alert and paying attention rather than "at ease" with his leg bent?

The more I enlarged the pic the more it began to look like Nicholas and other pictures I have seen of him standing with his leg bent just so. Also the man is slim and in a uniform that looks like one that Nicholas wore.  It is hard to tell if there is a beard, though.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on February 13, 2012, 11:51:00 AM
It is possible that the rife (if its there) is being held at "order arms", but the sloppy posture would be odd since the person would know that his picture was being taken and would, I think, not want to look less attentive that he should be. 
Quite right. 
Quote
The more I enlarged the pic the more it began to look like Nicholas and other pictures I have seen of him standing with his leg bent just so. Also the man is slim and in a uniform that looks like one that Nicholas wore.  It is hard to tell if there is a beard, though.
It now looks like to me Nicholas and Alix posing for a photo early on in Tobolsk...and it's the parasol photo with the big pair that helps me decide it's likely Alix...and to me these two figures are posing somewhat  together even if they are on diffrent floors!
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: matushka on February 14, 2012, 05:56:37 AM
Saruskha, no, Naryshkina did not go to Tobolsk: she was sick and too old.
I already saw this picture... somewhere. Was it in Alexandrov's book? Only remember it was labelled as Alexandra.
Alixz: when the family came to Tobolsk, the whether was quite hot yet, they wore summer clothes. Remember this picture of Tatiana with thekid Tolya (please, someone, post it! I have not my fails with me).
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sarushka on February 14, 2012, 07:58:46 AM
Alixz: when the family came to Tobolsk, the whether was quite hot yet, they wore summer clothes. Remember this picture of Tatiana with thekid Tolya (please, someone, post it! I have not my fails with me).


(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Arrest%20and%20Exile/th_tobolskgroup.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Arrest%20and%20Exile/?action=view&current=tobolskgroup.jpg) (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Arrest%20and%20Exile/th_tatianabald.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Arrest%20and%20Exile/?action=view&current=tatianabald.jpg)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Alixz on February 14, 2012, 09:55:48 AM
The rifle that was used by the Russian and then Soviets from 1891 through the latter part of the 20th century was a Mosin-Nagant. It looks very much like the 1903 Springfield that I posted.

Thanks everyone for posting the pictures of the family in summer clothing.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: nena on February 14, 2012, 11:28:56 AM

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Arrest%20and%20Exile/th_tobolskgroup.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Arrest%20and%20Exile/?action=view&current=tobolskgroup.jpg) (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Arrest%20and%20Exile/th_tatianabald.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Arrest%20and%20Exile/?action=view&current=tatianabald.jpg)
According to some Russian sources, the first one was taken in Spetember of 1917.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: matushka on February 15, 2012, 01:40:30 AM
Probably. According to Their Majesties's diaries, the whether was quite hot in august and the first part of september. Then it was colder; at the beginning of october the whether was like in summer, and then began the long siberian winter in the middle of october. When the sun was shining, the Empress worked on the balcony or outdoors, alone or with one or two daughters.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on February 15, 2012, 09:16:10 PM
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Arrest%20and%20Exile/th_tatianabald.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Arrest%20and%20Exile/?action=view&current=tatianabald.jpg)
Surely TN's hair length places this farly early in thier stay. btw I adore this photo. Thanks for posting
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Alixz on February 16, 2012, 10:14:52 AM
Who is the little person with her?
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: matushka on February 17, 2012, 04:20:31 AM
A little boy named Tolya (Anatoly), the son of an housecleaner from Tobolsk.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: JamesAPrattIII on February 17, 2012, 05:42:18 PM
Some comments:
The Tobolsk guard force was made up of men from the 1st,2nd, and 4th Guards Rifle regiments. The Guards rifle Brigade consisted of 4 Guards Rifle regiments numbered 1 to 4 each of 2 Battalions. In the book "Nicholas and Alexandra they call them "Sharpshooter Guards regiments'. I believe the terms Sharpshooter and rifle/rifleman are about the same in some European armies.  It should be remembered do to order Number 1 which destroyed disicpline in the Russian army Colonel Kobylivsky did not have much control over his troops. It was a meeting of the soldiers council of the men of the 2nd Rifle Regiment that forbid the officers to wear epaulets/pogani. i believe it was in Febuary 1918 is when Nicholas was forced to stop wearing his. So any outdoor photo of him during this period with him wearing them is before this date.
 # 90 the painting of Yakovlev with NAM. I believe i read somewhere that Alexandra and possibly maria were wear lambskin coats during this trip. It also looks like it has maria wearing a pearl necklace? and a brimed hat. Which i don't think was really suitable headgear for the trip she just went through. Maria also I believe was about the same height as her parents 5'7"at this time.
#284 1st photo man on the extreme right wearing a sword is wearing a "French" Tunic that was popular with Russian Army officers during WW I. So I think he is an officer.
#295 the soldier with the sword is most likely an officer it looks like he is wearing epaulets.
See the book "The Russian Army 1914-1918" Nik Cornish by osprey for the Russian army uniform and organization details
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: JamesAPrattIII on February 17, 2012, 05:59:00 PM
According to the book "Harvest of Sorrow" in 1921 there was a peasant revolt in Siberia during which the town of Toblosk was captured by them for awhile. if the IF mug shots and any other evidence of them were still around they probably would have been destroyed at this time.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on August 03, 2012, 02:36:01 AM
                  (http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/AP%20Postings%202/th_nickycuttingwood.jpg) (http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/AP%20Postings%202/nickycuttingwood.jpg)

Nicholas cutting wood in Tobolsk..... I have no idea who is with him here, but it seems everyone took a turn!   
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Rodney_G. on August 03, 2012, 02:07:23 PM
Tis a puzzlement indeed.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Jen_94 on August 03, 2012, 03:41:20 PM
I have no idea either! But thanks for posting the photo.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: edubs31 on August 03, 2012, 03:46:41 PM
And he must be tiny! Nicholas was all of 5'7'' and yet he towers over this little fellow...
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on August 03, 2012, 04:29:32 PM
And he must be tiny! Nicholas was all of 5'7'' and yet he towers over this little fellow...
Good point. I'd almost say the little guy is standing at a lower leavel some how...his out fit might identity him
, that is his task in life . He's a laborer of some sort .  I just noticed there are ladders going  from the green house to the
top of the main house . It easily could be about pushing snow of the roofs
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Robert_Hall on August 03, 2012, 04:39:12 PM
Could it be Alexei's friend? Just a guess,.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Jen_94 on August 03, 2012, 04:49:38 PM
That is a possibilty. Looking at the photo again, the person does look rather young to be honest....
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: aleksandr pavlovich on August 03, 2012, 04:52:53 PM
And he must be tiny! Nicholas was all of 5'7'' and yet he towers over this little fellow...
Good point. I'd almost say the little guy is standing at a lower leavel some how...his out fit might identity him
, that is his task in life . He's a laborer of some sort .  I just noticed there are ladders going  from the green house to the
top of the main house . It easily could be about pushing snow of the roofs

 IMO, the person to the right appears to be standing at a somewhat lower level as his dark booted (including the left boot strap or boot/pants top roll) leg can be seen at the lower right.  AP.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on August 03, 2012, 05:28:52 PM
I IMO, the person to the right appears to be standing at a somewhat lower level as his dark booted (including the left boot strap or boot/pants top roll) leg can be seen at the lower right.  AP.
  agree with that . His feet go way past the bottom of the saw horse ,as if Nicholas and the sawhorse are on a slight rise...I think the fellow has a beard and so is much older than Alexi's friend. Actually changing the level of the saw horse would be a clever way to accommodate all the diffrent sizes of the sawing partners Nicholas went though
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Georgiy on August 03, 2012, 06:14:28 PM
I think I read somewhere it was Catherine Schneider in this photo, but I might be mistaken. It is a lady anyway, with her hair done up in a bun and wearing a skirt.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Robert_Hall on August 03, 2012, 06:41:34 PM
My second thoughts as well Grigory. There were  women in Tobolsk who  might have particpated in this excersise. Even Demidova.  Schneider, I would have to look up. But, could well be.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on August 04, 2012, 09:14:45 AM
I see a beard, but that  could be the lighting. The the hat/hair is the biggest selling point for me that it's a lady. If the figure was at the same level as Nicholas,( who still has his shoulder boards. )  I think they would be too tall to be Schneider. Perhaps the sawhorse is  at a different level to help with thier back . There would certainly be less strain on a person's  back this way.  I remember reading in one of the girl's letters when the family was separated that  Schneider and Gillard cut wood  so bathwater for Alexis could be heated . So Catherine Schneider was definitely out there sawing ...seems everyone was ! But she would always do what was needed. 
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Vanya Ivanova on August 04, 2012, 11:36:54 AM
It looks to me as if this person has a beard! if you look closely quite a full one too. The ground also appears to be lower the side they are standing than where the Tsar is, the bottom of this person's boot is much lower than Nicholas's so the height difference maybe down to that as stated. My money is on this being a chap, what with the beard, LOL.

Great rare picture again Anne, thanks for posting it.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sarushka on August 04, 2012, 09:02:56 PM
I have a smaller but clearer version of this photo. It's definitely a bearded man in a workman's apron.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on August 05, 2012, 02:07:09 PM
I have a smaller but clearer version of this photo. It's definitely a bearded man in a workman's apron.
Thank you for that info! The hat is still very intriguing, ...seems unusual. I wonder if that's Joy behind the  workman?  A clearer copy  might reveal that .
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Alixz on August 05, 2012, 06:59:02 PM
That is definitely a man with a workman's apron.

Joy was a spaniel, wasn't he?  That fury shape looks too big to be a spaniel.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Robert_Hall on August 05, 2012, 07:08:07 PM
 I had forgotten all about the  workman's apron. But the hat.... we all of  come is different shapes and sizes, so, who knows. I thought he was King Charles.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on August 06, 2012, 01:33:38 AM
Joy could get a very heavy coat, that's  what made me wonder. He looked like a diffrent dog when groomed!
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on August 06, 2012, 10:45:16 AM
If all that dark area was the same object, then indeed you are right, it's too tall to be Joy...but it looks like a back paw and tail there....just a wondering
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Ortipo on August 11, 2012, 01:35:16 PM
This one less cropped - might be misdated.
(http://oi46.tinypic.com/22ltox.jpg)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Ortipo on August 11, 2012, 03:24:58 PM
Tobolsk
(http://i47.tinypic.com/j76ip4.jpg)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: TimM on August 11, 2012, 04:44:53 PM
They could still smile, despite their whole world being turned upside down.  Of course, they didn't know of the horror to come...
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: edubs31 on August 11, 2012, 07:58:17 PM
They could still smile, despite their whole world being turned upside down.  Of course, they didn't know of the horror to come...

Indeed they didn't, but I find that it still speaks to their fabulous character and unshakeable resolve. They had each other, their faith, and to the best of their knowledge hope. There was little more they needed.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on August 12, 2012, 12:19:24 AM
... but I find that it still speaks to their fabulous character and unshakeable resolve. They had each other, their faith, and to the best of their knowledge hope. There was little more they needed.
I quite agreed and well said as always. Gillard said in spite of everything, they still retained  thier " Joie de vivre" ...which they still had even on July 15th 1918 when the floor washing women came to Ipatiev House. The women remarked on it. They also remarked how Anastasia stuck  her tongue out at  Yurovsky when his back was turned .  Wonderful to know that 
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: TimM on August 12, 2012, 12:25:47 AM
Nice that they could stay in such good spirits, considering what was going on.  Granted they didn't know what was about to happen, but they had no way of knowing if they would ever see freedom again.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Andrei Beanov on March 12, 2013, 03:19:54 AM
Can someone post the "swingset" photos , as I don't see them.....links are all dead.

Also I'm looking for some photos that my father told me about of Olga ( and possibly other sisters ? ) taken 'late in captivity' showing them very skinny - having lost a lot of weight . I heard about them pre-internet times but have never seen them in any books or online....maybe were printed in" national geographic" or "time" style magazines or similar ? but I'm not totally sure about this... ???

Thanks
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: EmmyLee on March 12, 2013, 12:42:17 PM
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f55/visga/NAOTMAA/Captivity/th_AlexejnahoupaceOlgaaAnastziepostran.jpg) (http://s45.photobucket.com/albums/f55/visga/NAOTMAA/Captivity/?action=view&current=AlexejnahoupaceOlgaaAnastziepostran.jpg)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Jen_94 on March 12, 2013, 06:20:54 PM
I've never seen that one! Thank you for posting!
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Andrei Beanov on March 14, 2013, 02:16:39 AM
My reason for asking is that , quite some years ago when I was a child I saw some "photostats" of photos as they were called back then (early type of "photocopy" I suppose) . I remember my father calling them "gestetners" ---- I think this is name of the brand of machine which made the "photosats".....anyway.....there were 4 or 5 really poor photos of the IF . I dont know what happen to them as my father is dec'd 15 years ago . I have never seen them again in any books or on the internet , but obviously I know they exist. The only one which sticks in my mind is the one I asked about in the above post of skinny Romanov sister - I cannot remember what the other photos were at all.....From comparing my memory with what I've seen of existing photos , it was Olga or Tatiana
My guess is the original photos are in some 'private collection' somewhere or in possession of IF relatives........makes me wonder how many other photos are hidden away and not publically available but would be interesting to see.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sarushka on March 14, 2013, 07:50:00 AM
The only one which sticks in my mind is the one I asked about in the above post of skinny Romanov sister - I cannot remember what the other photos were at all.....From comparing my memory with what I've seen of existing photos , it was Olga or Tatiana

Do you remember anything else about the photo you're looking for? Was there more than one person in it? Were they sitting or standing? Indoors or outdoors? Dressed in light or dark clothes? "Skinny" is very little to go on, and also a rather subjective feature.

It's not unusual for pre-captivity photos to be mislabled as taken in Tobolsk or Ekaterinburg. For example, there's a couple pictures of Nicholas II in a wheelchair that are often captioned as "the tsar at the end of his life in Ekaterinburg," when in fact they were taken almost 20 years earlier in Livadia. There's also a photo of the grand duchesses looking out the window of the governor's house at Stavka which is almost always mislabeled as the governor's house in Tobolsk. So limiting yourself to captivity photos may not unearth the image you're in search of.

This is the only photo that comes to mind based on your description, though Maria is the only one who looks noticeably thinner than usual to me. It was taken early in captivity -- while the girls were convalescing from measles at the Alexander Palace in the spring of 1917.
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/OTMA/th_headscarvessemi-private.jpg) (http://s7.beta.photobucket.com/user/sarahelizabethii/media/Romanov/OTMA/headscarvessemi-private.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on March 14, 2013, 09:35:14 PM
(http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/AP%20Postings%202/th_Tobolskswingoaan_zps744271c2.jpg) (http://s792.beta.photobucket.com/user/blessOTMA/media/AP%20Postings%202/Tobolskswingoaan_zps744271c2.jpg.html)

Recently while editing folders I found a slightly  fuller version of the swing photo. Nichols comes after Anastasia
looking at it now, seems Joy is between Alexis and Anastasia , facing Alexis
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on March 18, 2013, 08:59:27 PM
more possible  dog sightings in captivity

(http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/AP%20Postings%202/th_ANwithdogs2_zpsa67c6310.jpg) (http://s792.photobucket.com/user/blessOTMA/media/AP%20Postings%202/ANwithdogs2_zpsa67c6310.jpg.html)

Joy in front of Anastasia and Jemmy behind
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Rodney_G. on March 19, 2013, 06:00:25 PM
(http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/AP%20Postings%202/th_Tobolskswingoaan_zps744271c2.jpg) (http://s792.beta.photobucket.com/user/blessOTMA/media/AP%20Postings%202/Tobolskswingoaan_zps744271c2.jpg.html)

Recently while editing folders I found a slightly  fuller version of the swing photo. Nichols comes after Anastasia
looking at it now, seems Joy is between Alexis and Anastasia , facing Alexis


That's definitely a new one to me, blessOTMA. Do you have a time and place for that ? Quite likely the AP period, but when? Also, nice hats! Never seen quite that style on the girls before.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on March 25, 2013, 12:27:09 AM
Rodney_G.  Interesting. I thought it was in Tobolsk. We know they had a swing in Siberia . But I have to say Nicholas looks very crisply dressed  for captivity. So it likely  be pretty early on . Was there a brick wall in the  Tobolsk compound? The girls had these hats since at least 1916 , if not before. They wore similar ones in the Crimea in 1912.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sarushka on March 25, 2013, 08:03:09 AM
It's Tobolsk. The guards helped Nicholas build the swing in the yard. Anastasia mentions using it in at least one of her letters.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on March 25, 2013, 10:26:00 AM

new  to me garden photo of Nicholas...looks like Alix's chair in the background

http://tinyurl.com/bpw4g2t
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sarushka on March 25, 2013, 10:51:53 AM
Excellent find. I wonder who the proud-looking fellow beside the tsar is?
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on March 25, 2013, 11:11:20 AM
Excellent find. I wonder who the proud-looking fellow beside the tsar is?
Indeed, that bulk is new to me! lol He has the build of a coachmen and  a very sweet expression.
 It's  seems not just pride, as with others at this time... he's moved

dog alert...Joy behind the Tsar?...O at the shed?
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on April 10, 2013, 12:18:09 AM
Photobucket is so awful since its "upgrade" I'm just supplying the link at the moment

http://www.lepta-kniga.ru/linkpics/News/buks3big.jpg


found on the web....imo the woodcutting photo is flipped. However  I've never seen fuller files
of the sled photo or the lunch/tea photo and the photo of the girl's room is totally new to me.
If the  well known photo of the girl's room in Tobolsk  is of the Little Pair's side, this would be the Big Pair side

Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sarushka on April 10, 2013, 11:40:42 AM
Holy wow. Was that taken from a book, or is it a screenshot of the webpage?
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on April 10, 2013, 11:27:47 PM
It's an actual  page from  this site

http://www.lepta-kniga.ru

Which appears to be a Russian Orthodox  site.

 Looks like  the photo  was taken from the desk  area where Anastasia was sitting in another photo .

Were there two stoves in the room?  One on either side of the door?  Looking at the well known photo in "The House of Special Purpose"  p.84,  the stove area is very diffrent  in that photo from this one one ....but the bed in the lower right hand corner in the well known photo
is just like end of bed area in this photo: Chair, jacket, camp bed covering  visible and dark material at the foot
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Antonina on July 11, 2013, 03:48:49 AM
It looks like there is a portrait, a drawing of Demekov near Marie's bed? Or is that someone else?
The inventory of Maria's fund in GARF contains an item: "The letter of leutenant Demenko V (enclosed a pencil drawing of a man). 1916".
So it is very possible Maria put on the wall his portrait:)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: KarinK on April 17, 2014, 02:57:46 AM
Nicholas in Tobolsk, 1918. From a Russian book about Gibbes, image previewed by an online bookstore (http://www.labirint.ru/books/425900/). The photo is so small that I can't guess who is on the balcony.

(http://i951.photobucket.com/albums/ad357/KarinArt/Romanov/1918NicholasTobolsk_zps07819c08.jpg) (http://s951.photobucket.com/user/KarinArt/media/Romanov/1918NicholasTobolsk_zps07819c08.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sarushka on April 17, 2014, 06:52:48 AM
It's cropped from this photo with Gilliard:

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Arrest%20and%20Exile/th_choppingkurth_zps7d4a45a5.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/sarahelizabethii/media/Romanov/Arrest%20and%20Exile/choppingkurth_zps7d4a45a5.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: nena on April 17, 2014, 05:54:47 PM
There is even larger version of that photo, it should have been posted on this thread already. :-)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: KarinK on April 18, 2014, 03:36:28 AM
Thanks for the bigger version! It shows how much wood there was in the yard for them to chop.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on April 23, 2014, 03:38:00 PM
Indeed, I posted these awhile ago . Someone is on the balcony



(http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Botkin/th_cuttingwood.jpg) (http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Botkin/cuttingwood.jpg)(http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Botkin/th_DSC03785.jpg) (http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Botkin/DSC03785.jpg)(http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Botkin/th_DSC03780.jpg) (http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Botkin/DSC03780.jpg)
 
Title: Where and when was thic pic taken?
Post by: chriscos on May 24, 2014, 05:40:06 AM
I recently came across this pic I had never seen before.
It shows "Otma" in their last year's clothes.
Maria looks very tired and emaciated.
The picture looks like to those taken in TS in 1917 summer.
On the other hand, GD Maria did not seem so skinny then.
She suffered from measles in march 1917. Was it then?
Or could it possibly a picture shot in 1918 at Ekaterinburg by some guards? It appears very damaged, somewhat burnt...
thanks for your opinion

http://romanovs.tumblr.com/post/772413027/one-of-the-last-pictures-of-otma
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sarushka on May 24, 2014, 08:27:47 AM
This was taken in Tsarskoe Selo, while the girls were recovering from measles. That's the reason for the scarves.

Maria is not quite as emaciated as she appears — the glare from the sun is obscuring part of her neck and face, similarly to what's happening with Olga's and Anastasia's heads.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: chriscos on May 24, 2014, 01:14:40 PM
Thank you !
Title: Re: OTMA captivity: Where and when was this pic taken?
Post by: Rodney_G. on May 24, 2014, 02:03:17 PM
This photo is from early to mid-June, 1917, Tsarkoe Selo. Shortly after the girls had their hair shorn. It shows them as you might expect them to be: not at their best, but putting up a good front as best they could. Marie still smiling,but obviously not carefree. And yes, she shows that she's  not fully recovered from her serious illness of the past March , in other words, not her typical  glowing full-bodied norm.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: KarinK on May 28, 2014, 05:38:46 AM
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/368e40628fe2d806ac3ea2115d2f1442/tumblr_n6a53oxIu81tw2zo1o1_1280.jpg)

(http://37.media.tumblr.com/c3fd043dcba5d94b5204a2466033cd28/tumblr_n6a53oxIu81tw2zo1o2_1280.jpg)

Hendrikova and Schneider in Tobolsk.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: edubs31 on May 28, 2014, 11:49:51 AM
Wow, great finds Karin. Thanks for posting!

Is that a snow shovel Mademoiselle Schneider is holding? It looks enormous!
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: nena on May 28, 2014, 01:37:22 PM
Is that a snow shovel Mademoiselle Schneider is holding? It looks enormous!
Yes, great find, I have never seen those bigger. :) Yes, it is a snow shovel. It seems to be so, at least for me.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Rodney_G. on May 28, 2014, 03:25:18 PM
Definitely a shovel. Snowfalls in the Russian north were deep and one needed a wide, easily-wielded shovel. There are also of course those many photos of Nicholas  in captivity shoveling snow with a shovel like the one Trina Schneider is holding.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: edubs31 on May 29, 2014, 09:06:05 AM
Definitely a shovel. Snowfalls in the Russian north were deep and one needed a wide, easily-wielded shovel. There are also of course those many photos of Nicholas  in captivity shoveling snow with a shovel like the one Trina Schneider is holding.

I never really understood what they had against snow blowers :-)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Rodney_G. on May 29, 2014, 11:39:49 AM
Definitely a shovel. Snowfalls in the Russian north were deep and one needed a wide, easily-wielded shovel. There are also of course those many photos of Nicholas  in captivity shoveling snow with a shovel like the one Trina Schneider is holding.

I never really understood what they had against snow blowers :-)

In Nicholas' case, a snowblower wouldn't have allowed him the physical exertion of manual snow shoveling, which was his sole reason for doing it. Otherwise I think the then one if the richest men in the world could afford to hire a few kids to clear the AP  driveways. Alexei might have been a choice. He was into getting a little responsibility and duty.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Превед on May 29, 2014, 12:03:28 PM
Тишина - silence.... Imagine how quiet that world was, without noisy snowblowers, leafblowers, lawn mowers, air condition, TV, radio, any significant motor traffic etc.
As some memoirs describe it: In the summer evenings on the country estate, all you would hear was some melancholic peasant singing from the village.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: JamesAPrattIII on May 30, 2014, 04:37:31 PM
The book "the House of Special purpose" has the photos of Schneider and Hendrikova they were taken by Gibbes who also took the two pictures on the Rus. The book has a number of other pictures taken by him at this time. I think it has a picture of Gilliard on the train to Ekterinburg. Sadly there are other pictures of these two women in the book "The Sokolov Investigation" of their remains. They were murdered along with a group of hostages outside Perm on 4 September 1918 in reprisal for the assassination attempt the badly wounded V.I. Lenin. Throughout Russia tens of thousands people were murdered for little or no reason by the Bolsheviks. It was the beginning of the Red Terror.

 They also passed a decree on 4 September On taking hostages to be executed in reprisal for future attacks on Bolshevik leaders or any other opposition to Bolshevik rule.

5 September "Resolution" class enemies of the regime were to be isolated in concentration camps and all persons with links to White guard organizations, conspiracies and seditious actions need to be subject to immediate execution.

The Bolshevik Commissar for Justice N.V. Krylenko" We must ececute not only the guilty: execution of the innocent will impress the masses even more"
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Lady Macduff on June 02, 2014, 08:25:49 PM
In Rappaport's Four Sisters there is a mention of Gibbes taking a picture of the tarantass the empress traveled in the morning they left Tobolsk. Has anyone ever come across this picture? I've never seen it mentioned anywhere else.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sarushka on June 02, 2014, 09:53:09 PM
It's in Tsar: The Lost World of Nicholas & Alexandra, by Peter Kurth. Page 181.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: nena on June 03, 2014, 07:35:57 AM
It was posted on this Forum long time ago:

(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/th_kolakojimodvodecaracaricuiMarijuizToboljskazaJekaterinburg1918_zpsb5e527e9.jpg) (http://s185.photobucket.com/user/nemanjapr/media/kolakojimodvodecaracaricuiMarijuizToboljskazaJekaterinburg1918_zpsb5e527e9.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Lady Macduff on June 03, 2014, 10:25:55 AM
Never going to stop being amazed by you folks. :)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on June 19, 2014, 06:26:46 PM
Also about 100 photos belonging to  Hendrikova  were found in  Perm when the Whites took over . A few were auctioned off in the 90's
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: JamesAPrattIII on June 23, 2014, 03:59:53 PM
In flipping through the book the Romanov Sisters in a bookstore Anna Demidova did take a number of pictures of the IF and left them with her family when she went with the IF to Siberia. The family burned the photos during Stalin's time. I have read where other people who had pictures of the IF did this as well it was just too much of a risk to be caught with them. The book "Memoirs of a Survivor" I think points out the Soviet secret police did confiscate quite a lot of written material over the years. I also believe towards the end of Communism 1991 the then KGB is reported to have burned a lot of records ect. It sort of make s you wonder what was lost, destroyed, or possibly may be still be sitting around somewhere in some archive ect.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: rosieposie on June 27, 2014, 04:53:04 AM
I just spent a lovely evening looking through this thread.   Wonderful finds in such sad circumstances.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Antonina on July 03, 2014, 12:10:44 PM
It was posted on this Forum long time ago:

(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/th_kolakojimodvodecaracaricuiMarijuizToboljskazaJekaterinburg1918_zpsb5e527e9.jpg) (http://s185.photobucket.com/user/nemanjapr/media/kolakojimodvodecaracaricuiMarijuizToboljskazaJekaterinburg1918_zpsb5e527e9.jpg.html)
A bit bigger:
(http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/saltkrakan/18923016/108419/108419_original.png)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Antonina on July 03, 2014, 12:20:54 PM
V. A. Dolgorukov in Tobolsk.
(http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/saltkrakan/18923016/108126/108126_original.png)
Camer-fourier Alexander Petrovich Kirpichnikov, in Tobolsk acted as a yard-keeper.
(http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/saltkrakan/18923016/107632/107632_original.png)
9/22 of May 1918, the way from Tumen to Yekaterinburg. Gilliard, Tegleva, Ersberg.
(http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/saltkrakan/18923016/108688/108688_original.png)
Klaudia Mikhailovna Bitner, 1899.
(http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/saltkrakan/18923016/107886/107886_original.png)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Antonina on July 03, 2014, 12:24:06 PM
(http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/saltkrakan/18923016/106951/106951_original.png)

(http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/saltkrakan/18923016/105122/105122_original.png)
Christmas 1918. Father Nikolai Vasiliev.
(http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/saltkrakan/18923016/106728/106728_original.png)

(http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/saltkrakan/18923016/106346/106346_original.png)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Antonina on July 03, 2014, 12:32:16 PM
Oh! Sorry, Alexey Vasiliev, of course, not Nikolai. Home church, Tobolsk.
(http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/saltkrakan/18923016/105797/105797_original.png)

(http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/saltkrakan/18923016/106182/106182_original.png)
Annunciation Church in Tobolsk, where the imperial family used to go for the service.
(http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/saltkrakan/18923016/105504/105504_original.png)
View from the second floor of the Governor's house.
(http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/saltkrakan/18923016/105431/105431_original.png)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Antonina on July 03, 2014, 12:37:58 PM
(http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/saltkrakan/18923016/104751/104751_original.png)
Alexei's bed in Tobolsk.
All of these pictures are from the new book about Gibbs, sorry if they have been already posted. Sorry for "bayans" as it is said in Russian))
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: nena on July 03, 2014, 03:49:33 PM
Antonina, marvellous! "Spasbo", as it is said in Russian. :-)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: amelia on July 03, 2014, 08:20:28 PM
Antonina,

What is the titte of the new book about Gibbs?

Thanks
Eva McDonald
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: edubs31 on July 03, 2014, 09:44:53 PM
Good lord, what a find! Thanks so much for posting Antonina!
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Antonina on July 03, 2014, 10:12:58 PM
Antonina,

What is the titte of the new book about Gibbs?

Thanks
Eva McDonald

This one: http://www.labirint.ru/books/425900/
It is a real treasure.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: KarinK on July 04, 2014, 05:34:24 AM
Wow. Thank you again for sharing wonderful rare photos, Antonina!
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: amelia on July 04, 2014, 05:42:24 AM
Can I buy it in USA? Thanks Eva
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Ally Kumari on July 04, 2014, 05:51:06 AM
Those are all unseen and rare to me! Thank you so much for sharing Antonina! Wonderful quality scan too.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Lady Macduff on July 04, 2014, 05:27:26 PM
Do any pictures exist of Nicholas and Alexandra's bedroom in Tobolsk?
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: matushka on July 05, 2014, 05:15:05 AM
Thanks Antonina! It decide me to buy the book! Are there more pictures and really a lot of information?
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Antonina on July 05, 2014, 07:37:02 AM
Can I buy it in USA? Thanks Eva
I'm not sure, you can look here in the shop: http://www.labirint.ru/help/?helptxt=%E7%E0+%F0%F3%E1%E5%E6#dz
Or ask the editor: http://www.st-tatiana.ru/publish/
Thanks Antonina! It decide me to buy the book! Are there more pictures and really a lot of information?

You are welcome! Yes, I think you'll not be disappointed. It contains also a lot of pictures of Gibbs during all his life, Hitrovo's and Hendrikova's families, persons related to the Civil war, views of the Ipatiev house and Tobolsk. And the other information was new for me. I liked best of all documents of Rita and Nastenka. There are Rita's short memories (!!!) and some unknown 1914-1916 letters to her!

Do any pictures exist of Nicholas and Alexandra's bedroom in Tobolsk?

In the same book I have pictures of Alexandra's and Nicolas' sitting rooms and his study room. Are they unknown, too?
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: EmmyLee on July 05, 2014, 09:29:44 AM
Wow, Antonina! These are wonderful!
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Rodney_G. on July 07, 2014, 10:54:13 AM
Wow!!! In good old American vernacular, may I say, Where the hell have these fan****ingtastic photos been hiding for a century? Outstanding. Now I have another book to track down and I couldn't be happier. Those photos of Dolgorukov, Kirpichnikov, Bittner,Ersberg, and Tegleva are rare, priceless, and provide wonderful faces to those names and characters we've long tried to conjure up.

Spasibo, Antonina!
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Inok Nikolai on July 07, 2014, 11:06:54 AM
Wow!!! In good old American vernacular, may I say, Where the hell have these fan****ingtastic photos been hiding for a century? Outstanding. Now I have another book to track down and I couldn't be happier. Those photos of Dolgorukov, Kirpichnikov, Bittner,Ersberg, and Tegleva are rare, priceless, and provide wonderful faces to those names and characters we've long tried to conjure up.

Spasibo, Antonina!

Well, so that those of you who do not know Russian won’t feel left out, the core of the book is the Russian translation of Trewin’s book on Gibbs, and Welch’s, with excerpts from Benagh’s -- all of which first appeared in English. The editors of this present book were able to contact several of Gibbs’ relatives, so the book has many more of his photos, fuller diary entries, later correspondence with Gilliard and others, etc. You might think of it as a fuller supplement to the other three books.

And then, since the editors had found a lot of valuable material on Rita Khitrovo and Anastasia Hendrikova (but not enough for a separate book), they included those things at the end of their book.

The footnotes and commentary also contain a wealth of information.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Rodney_G. on July 07, 2014, 11:25:44 AM
Thanks, Inok Nikolai. I've read all three books on Gibbs, though some time ago, and they run together in my mind somewhat. Even with this new one being something of a translation of Trewin's  and Welch's, the elaborated  material on Gibbs, along with coverage of Rita K., and Nastya Hendrikova should be worth the effort.

And I've found that footnotes , commentary and other supplemental details lead to wonderful new facts and further references.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Rodney_G. on July 07, 2014, 12:01:32 PM
It was posted on this Forum long time ago:

(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/th_kolakojimodvodecaracaricuiMarijuizToboljskazaJekaterinburg1918_zpsb5e527e9.jpg) (http://s185.photobucket.com/user/nemanjapr/media/kolakojimodvodecaracaricuiMarijuizToboljskazaJekaterinburg1918_zpsb5e527e9.jpg.html)
A bit bigger:
(http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/saltkrakan/18923016/108419/108419_original.png)


That latter,larger photo of the tarantasses gives a somewhat different impression of the scene as the Romanovs boarded them than I'd previously held. Namely it seems basically light,that is, daylight ,and the conventional  narrative describes the departure as at around 4am and still fairly dark. I thought daylight began in that part of Russia in mid-Spring much later, or put another way, that nights were longer then and there. Though the IF had been awake all night in any case, a morning departure seems at least a little less depressing, though it was very much so for them in any case.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: amelia on July 07, 2014, 01:38:16 PM
I would love to order this book, but it looks like that it is sold only in Russia. Has anyone ever ordered books directly from Russia? How long doe it take and is it ok to do so?

Thanks
Eva McDonald
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: KarinK on July 07, 2014, 01:59:05 PM
And then, since the editors had found a lot of valuable material on Rita Khitrovo and Anastasia Hendrikova (but not enough for a separate book), they included those things at the end of their book.

One day I would love to read a book about the people who followed the imperial family into exile.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sarushka on July 07, 2014, 09:01:20 PM
I would love to order this book, but it looks like that it is sold only in Russia. Has anyone ever ordered books directly from Russia? How long doe it take and is it ok to do so?

Thanks
Eva McDonald

I've done it probably half a dozen times now and run into no issues that would prevent me from doing so again. It seems to take 10-21 days.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on July 07, 2014, 09:14:48 PM
Thank you so much! I love seeing the whole photographs! The ones of the home made alter are so moving

(http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/saltkrakan/18923016/105122/105122_original.png)

looks like the Joy and jemmy are checking out that pile of wood in  bottom of the photo

Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Inok Nikolai on July 16, 2014, 09:58:14 AM
It was posted on this Forum long time ago:

(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/th_kolakojimodvodecaracaricuiMarijuizToboljskazaJekaterinburg1918_zpsb5e527e9.jpg) (http://s185.photobucket.com/user/nemanjapr/media/kolakojimodvodecaracaricuiMarijuizToboljskazaJekaterinburg1918_zpsb5e527e9.jpg.html)
A bit bigger:
(http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/saltkrakan/18923016/108419/108419_original.png)


That latter,larger photo of the tarantasses gives a somewhat different impression of the scene as the Romanovs boarded them than I'd previously held. Namely it seems basically light,that is, daylight ,and the conventional  narrative describes the departure as at around 4am and still fairly dark. I thought daylight began in that part of Russia in mid-Spring much later, or put another way, that nights were longer then and there. Though the IF had been awake all night in any case, a morning departure seems at least a little less depressing, though it was very much so for them in any case.

In 1949 Gibbes wrote a short account of his time with the Imperial family in Siberia. In that account, published in Russian translation in the above-mentioned book, he happens to mention that very photo. He said that, although it was still dark, by using a long exposure, he was able to capture a photo of the Empress’ cart. However, he was not able to photograph the actual moment of parting with the Imperial family.
 
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on July 17, 2014, 12:47:03 AM
Thank you! I have always wondered how it looked so much brighter than one would expect with a 4 AM departure time .
The carts must of been there for awhile . The horses always looked like they were moving, giving the impression so were the carts
But it's the long exposure  that gives that effect
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Maria Sisi on July 18, 2014, 03:54:56 PM
I know the last known photos of Olga, Tatiana, Anastasia and Alexei taken on the Rus but does anyone know the last photo of Maria? I know she wasn't there since she accompanied Nicholas and Alexandra to Yekaterinburg ahead of the others. Does anyone know what Maria's last photo is?

It's been said on here the last known photo of the Empress is of her on the balcony with Olga and Tatiana at Tobolsk in 1917 so I assume this would be the last of Nicholas and Alexandra together as well.

(http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/5f/cf/e2/5fcfe2cb238046f5d515cfe96229c2e5.jpg)  

So unless I'm wrong the only "last known photo" I don't know is Marias


Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: nena on July 19, 2014, 08:45:02 AM
That is good question. Both Empress' and Maria's photos at Tobolsk are so rare and unfortunarely we still don't know for sure which ones are the last taken of them two.
Maria appears only in group photos.

She also learned how to develop the photos at Tobolsk, so maybe that's why she barely appears in photos, since maybe she was the one that  took the photos of her siblings at Tobolsk .

I wonder who actually took the photos - their servants and friends  or the IF members?

I also believe that someday we will see more captivity's photos and find the answers to our questions.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Maria Sisi on July 19, 2014, 01:47:14 PM
I hope your right. There must be a treasure of photos somewhere in the archives from not just captivity but before the war too just waiting to be found.

I'm guessing photos where taken either by servants or the IF. And maybe before Tobolsk while at the AP even their captors???

If Maria was the one learning how to develop photos at Tobolsk then I wouldn't be surprised if a large majority of what we have were taken by her and that's why photos of her are so rare. I can understand the rareness of Alexandra photos but it seems strange that there are so few of Maria unless she was the one taking them.

Last photos:

Olga, Tatiana, Anastasia, Alexei - on the Rus to Yekaterinburg
Nicholas - Someone here said its one of him standing outside in Tobolsk (the one where the big fence can be seen behind him). Does anyone have it? I've seen it but it was a while ago.
Alexandra - on the balcony in Tobolsk
Maria - ??

Does anybody know the last photo of the whole IF together?  
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sarushka on July 19, 2014, 09:00:59 PM
Maria - ??

It's likely one of the poses of Nicholas and the children on the greenhouse roof in the spring of 1918. IMO, these are also the last photos of Nicholas.



Quote
Does anybody know the last photo of the whole IF together?  

The last one I'm aware of was taken in front of a hospital in the Crimea in 1916.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Maria Sisi on July 19, 2014, 09:38:19 PM
I can identify Anastasia and Tatiana but I'm having trouble separating Olga and Maria

(http://siberiantimes.com/PICTURES/OTHERS/Romanovs-last-Xmas/inside%20handwritten%20note%20on%20a%20picture%20of%20the%20family.jpg)
(http://siberiantimes.com/PICTURES/OTHERS/Romanovs-last-Xmas/inside%20romanov%20family%20in%20Tobolsk%20april%202018.jpg)

Does anyone have a more clear better version?

Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Maria Sisi on July 19, 2014, 09:53:26 PM
I've never seen this one before...

(http://siberiantimes.com/PICTURES/OTHERS/Romanovs-last-Xmas/inside%20Alexey%20feeding%20poultry.jpg)

And this one is Nicholas's study at Tobolsk as it is today

(http://siberiantimes.com/PICTURES/OTHERS/Romanovs-last-Xmas/inside%20Nicholas%20study%20in%20Tobolsk.jpg)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Andrei Beanov on July 20, 2014, 02:24:17 AM
There were photographic films ( undeveloped obviously ) found burnt in the stove at Ipatiev by the investigators,this implys that other photos were taken at Tobolsk or on the way to Yekaterinburg which we will never see .Their cameras were confiscated on arrival at Ipatiev so none were taken there. There are quite a lot taken at Tobolsk which have been around for many years ,most posted on this forum or elsewhere on the web. There may be others that we have not seen which may be in private collections,who knows ?. Nothing seems to have surfaced of recent years........
As for Marie doing the developing - that was actually Anastasia , in one book ( cant remember which at the moment ) it is said that Nicholas actually paid for a representative of the Kodak company to teach her how to do it as she had such an interest in photography - of course Marie may have learnt from Anastasia.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Georgiy on July 20, 2014, 03:18:16 AM
Olga is on the left in both cases, with the white hat.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Maria Sisi on July 20, 2014, 01:12:44 PM
Thank you Georgiy

Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Rodney_G. on July 22, 2014, 04:41:19 PM
I can identify Anastasia and Tatiana but I'm having trouble separating Olga and Maria

(http://siberiantimes.com/PICTURES/OTHERS/Romanovs-last-Xmas/inside%20handwritten%20note%20on%20a%20picture%20of%20the%20family.jpg)
(http://siberiantimes.com/PICTURES/OTHERS/Romanovs-last-Xmas/inside%20romanov%20family%20in%20Tobolsk%20april%202018.jpg)

Does anyone have a more clear better version?



I have always had a hard time identifying the GDs in the upper  greenhouse photo , even allowing for the leftmost being Olga, as per Georgiy. The one on the right, with the light colored head gear and dark dress doesn't look like any of them , imho.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Georgiy on July 23, 2014, 01:09:14 AM
Top photo L to R : Olga, Anastasia, Maria, Tatiana.
Bottom pic: OTMA order.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: JamesAPrattIII on July 23, 2014, 06:55:30 PM
In the section dealing with servants ect on the posting of Anna D there is a picture of either Anna D or Alexandra with 3 of the daughters which looks like it was taken in the later part of 1917. It looks like it might be cold out because the Anna d or Alexandra in the picture has a coat on. This is either the last picture of Alexandra or Anna D it from the book "File on the Tsar" and was most likely taken by Gibbes.

I think the last picture of Nicholas is one of the pictures posted in this section of Nicholas outside with snow on the ground at tobolsk. This does date it to the late 1917/early 1918 period. From what I have read the cold did not bother him which is why he is running around outside without a coat on.

I hope this is of help
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Rodney_G. on July 24, 2014, 04:18:52 PM
Top photo L to R : Olga, Anastasia, Maria, Tatiana.
Bottom pic: OTMA order.

Thanks, Georgiy. I do believe you're right.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Ally Kumari on September 01, 2014, 02:49:32 AM
This one appeared on tumblr today - Anastasia and Tatiana

(http://38.media.tumblr.com/65a48ae499ecaac1796e3e377c8d2b5c/tumblr_nb74p0QUxt1tc6ouio1_1280.jpg)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: nena on September 01, 2014, 03:18:14 AM
That one actually appeared on the Alexander Palace Time Machine Forum yesterday, posted in 'Rare Pictures XIII' at first.

Grand Duchesses Anastasia and Tatiana, Tsarskoe Selo, spring of 1917:

(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Zarobljenistvo/th_rare2_zpsc9df44e1.jpg) (http://s185.photobucket.com/user/nemanjapr/media/Romanov/Zarobljenistvo/rare2_zpsc9df44e1.jpg.html)

Direct link. (http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Zarobljenistvo/rare2_zpsc9df44e1.jpg)

For me, this is extremly rare, I have never seen it before.
Here's one more:

Tsraevich Alexei with his father, a boy or a soldier (Kolia Derevenko?), K. Nagorny and diadka Derevenko breaking the ice, late winter/early spring of 1917, Tsarskoe Selo:

(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Zarobljenistvo/th_rare_zps47ddf8b7.jpg) (http://s185.photobucket.com/user/nemanjapr/media/Romanov/Zarobljenistvo/rare_zps47ddf8b7.jpg.html)
(click for the larger version)

Also extremly rare to me. I have never seen it before.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Ally Kumari on September 01, 2014, 03:47:45 AM
That one actually appeared on the Alexander Palace Time Machine Forum yesterday, posted in 'Rare Pictures XIII' at first.

Oh I am sorry! I did not look there as yet. Thank you for sharing it with us Nena!
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: nena on September 01, 2014, 09:52:00 AM
No worries. ;-) I am glad you like it. :-)

Grand Duchess Tatiana Nichoalievna, spring of 1917, Ts. Selo:

(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/th_Tatiana_1917_zps3cf9515d.jpg) (http://s185.photobucket.com/user/nemanjapr/media/Tatiana_1917_zps3cf9515d.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: KarinK on September 02, 2014, 01:41:00 PM
It's great to see so many new photos!

Tsraevich Alexei with his father, a boy or a soldier (Kolia Derevenko?), K. Nagorny and diadka Derevenko breaking the ice, late winter/early spring of 1917, Tsarskoe Selo:

(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Zarobljenistvo/th_rare_zps47ddf8b7.jpg) (http://s185.photobucket.com/user/nemanjapr/media/Romanov/Zarobljenistvo/rare_zps47ddf8b7.jpg.html)

This is interesting. It was taken after the revolution, and Derevenko is still there. I've wondered what really happened with him since there are conflicting reports.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: KarinK on September 04, 2014, 01:31:36 PM
(http://33.media.tumblr.com/9efc61313b3c035b054eca42c04cffa2/tumblr_nbbb4bDvmA1tw2zo1o1_1280.jpg)

Nicholas and Maria, 1917. Larger than the versions I had before.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: nena on September 04, 2014, 01:58:40 PM
The long-bearded man in the center back is valet T.I. Chemodurov (with an axe in the hands), who went with the IF into the exile at Tobolsk. ;-)

Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Rodney_G. on September 05, 2014, 02:15:28 PM
Excellent identification of Chemodurov, Nena :) Few, including me, wlould have recognized him.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Rodney_G. on September 05, 2014, 02:23:02 PM
It's great to see so many new photos!

Tsraevich Alexei with his father, a boy or a soldier (Kolia Derevenko?), K. Nagorny and diadka Derevenko breaking the ice, late winter/early spring of 1917, Tsarskoe Selo:

(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Zarobljenistvo/th_rare_zps47ddf8b7.jpg) (http://s185.photobucket.com/user/nemanjapr/media/Romanov/Zarobljenistvo/rare_zps47ddf8b7.jpg.html)

This is interesting. It was taken after the revolution, and Derevenko is still there. I've wondered what really happened with him since there are conflicting reports.


Yes, assuming the photo is truly post-revolution ,this is an important find, as Derevenko was thought to have abandoned the IF then (although  on exactly what day it is hard to know) . Clearly this photo indicates otherwise.

Plus, this is the only photo I've ever seen showing both dyadki, Nagorny AND Derenenko,on duty, or at least on the scene, at the same time.
Very rare photo, though perhaps it shouldn't be.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: nena on September 05, 2014, 04:14:40 PM
Good eye, Rodney and Karin. I noticed Derevenko but it never came to my mind to wonder how possible that he was in the photo with the Tsar and Tsarevich even in early 1917 when the photo was taken.

There is one more of both diadka's with the Heir I am aware of, also breaking the ice:

(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/th_811_zps4cbac125.jpg) (http://s185.photobucket.com/user/nemanjapr/media/811_zps4cbac125.jpg.html)
(The man on the left is believed to be Nagorny. I personally believe he is, since the mark says "K.H", in English "K.N" - Klement Nagorniy). I don't know when this one was taken , sometime during the war but I am almost certain that the place is Ts. Selo. There is a man behind Nagorny, I believe the Tsar himself.

One of the Grand Duchesses (most likely Anastasia or Tatiana), gardering, Ts. Selo, spring of 1917:

(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/th_1917_zps44e5f5d1.jpg) (http://s185.photobucket.com/user/nemanjapr/media/1917_zps44e5f5d1.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Sarushka on September 05, 2014, 05:52:01 PM
This is interesting. It was taken after the revolution, and Derevenko is still there. I've wondered what really happened with him since there are conflicting reports.

Smart observation.

Since Vyrubova appears to be the sole witness to Derevenko's "betrayal," it would have had to have happened before Vyrubova was removed from the palace on 21 March/3 April.  Nicholas's diary would probably tell us what day the family began breaking up ice on the canals — if it was after 21 March/3 April, then I think we can dismiss Vyrubova's claim regarding Derevenko's behavior.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Ikalgo on September 05, 2014, 07:38:16 PM
From the chapter about captivity at Tsarskoye in Gilliard's memoirs:

"Sunday, April 15th, Easter Day - We went out for the first time with Aleksey Nicolaievich on the terrace in front of the palace. A superb spring day.

...
On the following day, as the weather was still very fine, we went out into the park, where we are now allowed to take the air, followed by officers of the guard and sentries.

Wishing to take a little physical exercise, we amused ourselves by clearing the sluices of the pond of the ice which was blocking them."

If Alexei hadn't even been outside before then, I guess that's that.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: nena on September 05, 2014, 07:39:16 PM
Nicholas II' diary, April 1st, Saturday (Old Style):

'' ...During the day, we began breaking the ice near the bridge; Tatiana, Valya and Nagorny worked..." He mentioned breaking the ice almost the whole April. So the official begining of breaking the ice would be April 1st 1917, since he wrote 'today we began breaking the ice...'. The word 'ice' (Russian: led) is also mentioned on 3rd, 4th, 6th, 9th 23rd and 24th April. I found  the Tsar's entry on Anna Vyrubova's arrest , it is 21 March and he afterwards mentions breaking the ice for the first time, on April 1st.

The name 'Derevenko' is mentioned only twice, in August and September and is reffered to the surgeon Vladimir Nikolaevich Derevenko and his son Kolya.

Also, we should believe that breaking the ice hadn't begun before April 1st. So, the photo was taken after 21 March (OS).

Nicholas's diary would probably tell us what day the family began breaking up ice on the canals — if it was after 21 March/3 April, then I think we can dismiss Vyrubova's claim regarding Derevenko's behavior.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: KarinK on September 06, 2014, 06:10:00 AM
I don't know the original source, but this photo was labeled 1917 when I saved it. Does anyone know if that's a confirmed date?

(http://i951.photobucket.com/albums/ad357/KarinArt/Romanov/1917AlexeiIce_zpsefc784cb.jpg) (http://s951.photobucket.com/user/KarinArt/media/Romanov/1917AlexeiIce_zpsefc784cb.jpg.html)

Though details can't be seen in the new rare, Alexei has a pale belt in both photos.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: nena on September 06, 2014, 08:09:03 AM
Karin, it comes from the same period, since it is in 1917 captivity album. So March/April 1917. You can also see Nagorny (maybe even Tsar and Derevenko) in the background. Also, he was wearing the same white belt, as you have noticed.

Also the photos of Aleksei sitting in the chair surrounded by the ice and with his father in front of AP also was taken at the same period.

(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/th_Aleksej1917prerevolucijepretpostavljam_zpsf14bd6a1.jpg) (http://s185.photobucket.com/user/nemanjapr/media/Aleksej1917prerevolucijepretpostavljam_zpsf14bd6a1.jpg.html)(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/th_Aleksej_Nikolaj_Carsko_Selo_1917_zpsd0fe1605.jpg) (http://s185.photobucket.com/user/nemanjapr/media/Aleksej_Nikolaj_Carsko_Selo_1917_zpsd0fe1605.jpg.html)
(The first one definitely was taken in 1917 at Ts. Selo).
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Ally Kumari on October 03, 2014, 06:24:18 AM
This is obivously a well-known photo, but I have never seen it in this size. Can anyone identify the woman on the far left? Could it be barones Buxhoeveden?

(http://oldsp.ru/old/upload/photos/4/d/d/800_4ddc657585140c753bbc1184ba951ec7.jpg)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Justine on October 03, 2014, 07:23:38 AM
Looks more like countess Hendrikova to me, but it's difficult to say.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Rodney_G. on October 03, 2014, 10:31:23 AM
Yes, much more like A  Hendrikova than Sophie B.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Inok Nikolai on December 25, 2014, 01:31:04 PM
Here are the last known photos of four of the imperial children, taken aboard the Rus:
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/100_2301.jpg)
Alexei & Olga


(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/100_2302.jpg)
Tatiana (facing the camera on the left, by the window) & Anastasia

These photos , while unimaginably precious, are hard to take. Because of the looks on thier faces of course, but also when
one compares them to the river of beautiful images that came before. These scratchy, poor images
make it seem like the family are already fading out , like a signal poorly received . What I'm trying to say is the photos themselves
are symbolic of the situation and heart breaking

http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=1251.msg98987#msg98987
http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=1251.msg408623#msg408623

Concerning the last photograph of Grand Duchess Olga Nicholaevna and Tsarevich Alexis Nicholaevich, taken on the steamer Rus during the journey between Tobolsk and Tiumen in May 1918.

In an appendix to the Russian book on Sydney Gibbs, Nastavnik, the editor devotes the first part of the Appendix (pp. 504-515) to refuting the speculations contained in FOTR as to what happened on board.

For more on that new book, see:
http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=1251.msg536665#msg536665

Pierre Gilliard and other members of the suite and servants who were on the Rus with the Imperial children note in their various memoirs that they boarded the steamer at 11:30 AM on May 7/20, but set sail only at 5 PM. They also write that the steamer docked in Tiumen on the following morning, May 8/21. Volkov even states that they arrived at 8 AM.

As the editor of Nastavnik points out, that photograph of Grand Duchess Olga Nicholaevna was first published in Trewin’s book (1975) on Sydney Gibbs (p. 103), where the caption reads: “Alexis and Olga on board the Rus at the beginning of their last journey” [emphasis mine, I.N.].

Thus it has been demonstrated that that now-famous photograph was taken on the Imperial children’s first day on board the Rus (i.e., before nightfall), and not on “the following day” as reported in FOTR (p. 141).

Obviously, too much has been read into that particular photograph. The editor of Nastavnik rightly states that Grand Duchess Olga Nicholaevna’s mood, as caught in that photograph, is explained quite well by Baroness Sophia Buxhoeveden in her book Left Behind, (p. 69):

“…Olga Nicolaevna had also greatly changed. The suspense and anxiety of her parents' absence, and the responsibility she bore when left as head of the house with her sick brother to look after, had changed the lovely, bright girl of twenty-two into a faded and sad middle-aged woman. She was the only one of the young girls who acutely realised the danger that their parents were in…”


Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: JamesAPrattIII on December 31, 2014, 04:20:53 PM
In the last photo of Anastasia and Tatania the older woman on the right is probably Schneider but who are the other 3 women in the picture. I don't think Olga was one note her brimmed hat so this leaves:
Hendrikova
Buxhoeveden
Ersberg
Tegleva
Tutelburg
Pauline Mejantz Hendrikova's maid
Katia
Masha Schneider's maids
I would guess since the picture isn't all that clear that probably Hendrikova or Buxoeveden or both might be in the picture and the other one or two are servants.
I hope this is of some interest.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Rodney_G. on December 31, 2014, 10:07:18 PM
I agree that the older woman at the right is Trina Schneider. The woman in left foreground is somewhat like Olga.Note the patterned coat similar to top photo, the hat and pearl-like earrings. Also , in front of her is some sort of handbag/valise similar to that between Anastasia and Tatiana.

And, could this be thus considered the "Grand Duchess" table?

Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: JamesAPrattIII on January 06, 2015, 06:12:54 PM
Thanks for pointing this out RG. I don't think anyone noticed this before. It could be olga. As for the other two I would guess Hendrikova and Buxhoeveden. Both the other women are wearing turban like hats and there are pictures of them wearing turban like hats. I am not sure if the maids could afford hats like this. Also from the Bolshevik view point any woman found wearing a hat was a "bourgeois"

As for reply 512 I also think the woman on the left could be Hendrikova there are other pictures of her that day wearing a black dress like this woman has on.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: spoofs on January 07, 2015, 04:51:09 PM
Yes, well spotted.  I have looked at those photos for over 30 years - never noticed that this is almost certainly Olga before......
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Ally Kumari on February 04, 2015, 11:30:50 AM
Tatiana and Anastasia at Tsarskoe Selo park, spring 1917

(http://41.media.tumblr.com/e178f4554403501d1068ab1994a22096/tumblr_nj99x3Jssu1s8tajho1_1280.jpg)

ГА РФ, ф. 683 оп. 1 д. 125 л. 23 фото 386

Courtesy of naaotma.tumblr.com
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: TimM on February 24, 2015, 06:13:23 AM
Despite being in captivity at this point, they look happy.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Ally Kumari on March 19, 2015, 05:22:10 AM
Despite being in captivity at this point, they look happy.

Well, their captivity by this point was not really harsh. They were young people who just recovered from bad illness, and probably believed they would be eventually, possibly very soon, released, either to go to England or Crimea. Tatiana, Maria and Anastasia were apparently cheerful even in the Ipatiev house.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: blessOTMA on April 08, 2015, 02:53:07 PM
This goes with the better known  photo of TN and Alexis taken at the same time... Wonderful photo. The girls  also are feeling better after  just surviving  a grave illness.. which may count for the smiles too .
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Olga Maria on April 09, 2015, 10:17:35 PM
Tatiana and Anastasia at Tsarskoe Selo park, spring 1917

http://41.media.tumblr.com/e178f4554403501d1068ab1994a22096/tumblr_nj99x3Jssu1s8tajho1_1280.jpg

ГА РФ, ф. 683 оп. 1 д. 125 л. 23 фото 386

Courtesy of naaotma.tumblr.com
Wahhh :' ))  Sooo beautiful pic! They look very much alike! But wait, I also thought that's Audrey Hepburn talking to Anastasia!!
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Olga Maria on April 10, 2015, 11:01:13 AM
Quote
Quoted from: Antonina
There are Rita's short memories (!!!) and some unknown 1914-1916 letters to her!
Yay! I would like to ask you to translate those all for us but that would be such a shameful request and burdensome task for you so don’t mind me ^^ Very many thanks to you for sharing those amazing scans and for informing the Russian-speakers about that new book on Gibbes! From what I saw, I could say that Tobolsk was the most perfect place for them had they been allowed to live. I now see why Maria said she’d love to live there forever. Everything was simplicity despite the desolateness of the place.

I’m dead-curious of what Rita has said about the family most especially OTMA, and Olga in particular as they were the closest. Oh my, I’m going to die of curiosity.

I had a very good time reading through the pages of this thread like Rosieposie. About what Mr. JamesPrattIII (I’m soo thankful of you, too, because I’m learning lots from your posts) said about the killing of people who have connections to the IF or people working with the Whites terribly saddens me. How did the people think life in a Revolutionary Russia is even better than living without the Tsar? If they all had been patient and waited for WWI to end without rising against the Romanov dynasty, they surely would have enjoyed a happier life than what they had under Communism. Oh well, they were thinking then that it was the “right choice”… too sad they didn’t know they plunged down to more misery until it was too late to turn back.
I feel soo sad thinking about not only the lost lives of the IF, but also of the lives lost ever since Communism ruled in Russia.
Also about the burning of albums, letters, etc. connected to the IF, I feel mournful about that! What could have those things said we can only dream of because we can never retrieve them (T_T)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: edubs31 on April 11, 2015, 07:53:18 AM
As BlessOTMA said in a recent post we do appear to be in the midst of a golden age for Romanov photos! And those images have been enhanced by the great artistic touch of a number of AP members and their colorizations. Thanks to all!

Quote
Yay! I would like to ask you to translate those all for us but that would be such a shameful request and burdensome task for you so don’t mind me ^^ Very many thanks to you for sharing those amazing scans and for informing the Russian-speakers about that new book on Gibbes! From what I saw, I could say that Tobolsk was the most perfect place for them had they been allowed to live. I now see why Maria said she’d love to live there forever. Everything was simplicity despite the desolateness of the place.

In a interesting way I feel like Alexandra deserves credit for preparing them for the conditions faced during those months in captivity. Their relatively spartan upbringing I feel made them better prepared and more adaptable to the otherwise severe downgrade in luxury and comfort provided in Tobolsk, and then Ekaterinburg. Although they weren't terribly disciplined & inspired in the classroom (save Olga), their mother kept them busy. Those camp beds must have been less comfortable than what most aristocratic children were used to in that era as well. Additionally Alexei's illness and his long stretches in bed must have made him adaptable to boredom in invalidity in a way that would have made most boys his age positively stir crazy...None of this of course was done by Alix in the anticipation of a severely downgraded lifestyle, but her minimalist style (for a royal anyway) surely came in handy when it was needed most. 

Quote
How did the people think life in a Revolutionary Russia is even better than living without the Tsar? If they all had been patient and waited for WWI to end without rising against the Romanov dynasty, they surely would have enjoyed a happier life than what they had under Communism.

Hindsight being 20-20 it's easy to say that Russia took the wrong path. But it's important to remember that there were two phases of that 1917 revolution - the first (March) effectively deposed the Tsar, and the second (October) gave rise to the Bolsheviks - and a civil war that followed. It would have been one thing if Russians in unison had called for Bolshevik leadership in March immediately after Nicholas's abdication, but that's not how it played out. The Bolsheviks won a bloody struggle over a divided country in the months and years that followed, and only then were able to establish the Soviet Union - terrifying and oppressing the masses into submission and acceptance of the new rule.

Had the Provisional Government and/or White Army succeeded in establishing a stable social democracy, possibly similar to the American Presidential or French parliamentary model, Russia's future would have been much different. Then we would have been looking back at Nicholas's abdication, and the likelihood of a peaceful exile for he and his family, as the appropriate and necessary transition from Tsarist rule to sensible 20th century style government.

Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Irina_K on April 12, 2015, 06:21:08 AM
I think that would hardly be possible different scenario than the one that occurred. The only pity is that the crimes of a handful of traitors paid off all the people. But we do not know the plans of God, perhaps Russia had to go through all these horrors in the past, in order to become stronger in the future.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: edubs31 on April 13, 2015, 09:12:12 PM
I think that would hardly be possible different scenario than the one that occurred. The only pity is that the crimes of a handful of traitors paid off all the people. But we do not know the plans of God, perhaps Russia had to go through all these horrors in the past, in order to become stronger in the future.

Nicely stated Irina. Only problem is it seems like the world is still waiting on that "future".
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Judicial Investigator on May 22, 2015, 07:40:34 AM
Николай II, Анастасия Николаевна, Терентий Чемодуров, Василий Долгорукий и офицеры охраны в Царском Селе, 1917 год
ГА РФ, ф. 683 оп. 1 д. 125 л. 25 об. фото 446

(https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/5807/98255750.12/0_155e4f_e5ac39fc_orig)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Judicial Investigator on May 22, 2015, 05:18:04 PM
Ольга Николаевна и Алексей Николаевич в Царском Селе, 1917 год

(https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/15516/98255750.12/0_155f8d_6968c283_orig)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: JamesAPrattIII on May 23, 2015, 03:42:02 PM
Glad to be of help Shandroise.  Eb from what I have read the Romanovs since Nicholas I had their children brought up in a fairly Spartan manner sleeping on camp bed ect. Lifestyle back then was at a much slower pace than today. Also being royalty they had plenty of experience putting up with long events that must have bored them to death. Being brought up royal/imperial means you are taught to put up with this.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Bryndis on December 17, 2015, 12:20:45 PM
OMA in Tobolsk (?)

(http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t372/joibkb/tobolsk_zpsm7ydszij.jpg) (http://s1056.photobucket.com/user/joibkb/media/tobolsk_zpsm7ydszij.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: nena on December 17, 2015, 03:23:15 PM
Yes, at Tobolsk. Wow, amazing, thank you a lot! We have got one more Maria's photo taken at Tobolsk. :) Thank you, Bryndis!
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Bryndis on December 17, 2015, 08:36:44 PM
Oh, I saw it on Judicial Investigator's tumblr page. He has posted a lot of new photos there.
Thank you Judicial Investigator!
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Judicial Investigator on April 14, 2016, 03:31:39 PM
Алексей Николаевич, Коля Деревенко и Пьер Жильяр (?) на крыльце Губернаторского дома в Тобольске.

(https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/41340/98255750.15b/0_17668d_7e1c5572_orig)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Bryndis on April 16, 2016, 09:20:52 PM
(http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t372/joibkb/1917%20spring_zpsskq1lmcg.jpg) (http://s1056.photobucket.com/user/joibkb/media/1917%20spring_zpsskq1lmcg.jpg.html) (http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t372/joibkb/1917_zpstcrccepm.jpg) (http://s1056.photobucket.com/user/joibkb/media/1917_zpstcrccepm.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: nena on April 25, 2016, 09:15:20 AM
At Tobolsk:

(http://41.media.tumblr.com/a54faadcb8e63ffb026472e1dc21143d/tumblr_nbi35cfGZ91r71ilwo1_500.jpg)

Just found it, am amazed. Thank for everyone for sharing the photos.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: Ally Kumari on April 25, 2016, 10:46:48 AM
That is new! What book is it from? And any idea on the man beside Alexei?
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: nena on April 25, 2016, 03:58:25 PM
I don't know where it comes from, but I think it is from a Russian book. What is interesting, there are undoubtedly unseen photos from the captivity. I *think* the man could be Nicholas' valet but I am not sure.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: nena on May 01, 2016, 07:51:09 PM
More Alexei at Tobolsk:

(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Zarobljenistvo/th_13108662_1013639948715090_998669201_n_zpsgmn7y4ct.jpg) (http://s185.photobucket.com/user/nemanjapr/media/Romanov/Zarobljenistvo/13108662_1013639948715090_998669201_n_zpsgmn7y4ct.jpg.html)
(Not new but I have never seen it full)

And this one I found yesterday on Pinterest but I believe it was uploaded by Juidical Investigator whom I thank for effort and sharing the photos.

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/4a/77/76/4a7776d34a513e1324fa38a2b0119c0a.jpg).
(Alexei on swing at Tobolsk, never seen it beofre).  Also, here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUAd3OEqZ0Q) is a video-tribute to the IF's imprisonment days. :-)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: nena on May 05, 2016, 02:37:40 PM
Царское Село, 1917 год
ГА РФ, ф. 683 оп. 1 д. 125 л. 25 об. фото 448

(https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/4004/98255750.e/0_14de55_bc10955c_orig)
Maria and Alexei, Tsarskoe SElo 1917

(http://cs621319.vk.me/v621319027/155ba/ZfvXsIcLUK4.jpg)

ГА РФ, ф. 683 оп. 1 д. 125 л. 25 об. фото 443
To put these at Captivity's photos. Thanks everyone for sharing. :)
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: clockworkgirl21 on May 09, 2016, 08:34:15 PM
I've always been amazed by how grown up Aleksey looks in captivity photos. Definitely more like a teenager than a child.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: nena on November 29, 2016, 06:35:33 PM
Thank you so much! I love seeing the whole photographs! The ones of the home made alter are so moving

(http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/saltkrakan/18923016/105122/105122_original.png)

looks like the Joy and jemmy are checking out that pile of wood in  bottom of the photo

People here [according to a Russian book]:

V.A.Dolgorukov,
Tsarevich Alexei,
P. Gilliard,
E.A.Schneider,
Grand Duchess Tatiana,
Tsar Nicholas II.

It was taken in 1918.
Title: Re: Captivity photo's
Post by: EmHarms on March 12, 2022, 07:05:41 PM
Thank you so much! I love seeing the whole photographs! The ones of the home made alter are so moving

(http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/saltkrakan/18923016/105122/105122_original.png)

looks like the Joy and jemmy are checking out that pile of wood in  bottom of the photo

People here [according to a Russian book]:

V.A.Dolgorukov,
Tsarevich Alexei,
P. Gilliard,
E.A.Schneider,
Grand Duchess Tatiana,
Tsar Nicholas II.

It was taken in 1918.

Resurrecting this old thread, which I hope is okay. I kind of think that central figure, the tall one beside Alexei, might be Nagorny. The silhouette resembles his, especially given the hat, pea-coat he wore in photos from the previous year, dark pants, & tall boots. This looks exactly like what he wore in photos from 1917.