Alexander Palace Forum
Discussions about Other Imperial Palaces => Palaces in Moscow => Topic started by: Almedingen on March 23, 2004, 02:50:30 PM
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I was wondering if anyone can tell us about Sergei and Ella's home in Moscow (not Illynskoie but the place they lived in town).
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They had two residences-the Governor-General's Palace, which was situated midway down the Tverskaya between the Kremlin and Petrovsky Palace, and the Nicholas Palace in the Kremlin. Serge spent a lot of money redecorating rooms in the GG Palace on taking up office in 1891; they seem to have moved freely between the two, but in 1905 had moved into the Kremlin permenantly owing to security concerns.
Greg King
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Is the former Governor General's palace now the Mayor's office?
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Sergei and Ella were also allowed by the Tsar to use the Neskuchny Sad (The Alexandra Palace) which is now the Academy of Sciences. It is just south of Gorky Park and had large gardens surrounding it. I don't believe the palace or the gardens are open to the public. Once Sergei was given the right to live here, Muscovites were no longer able to visit the gardens. Grand Duchess Marie Pavlovna mentions the palace in her autobiography "The Education of a Princess". When radicals made it dangerous, Sergei and Ella moved back to the Kremlin. Its a pretty little palace. I have a picture of it on a collection of Moscow Palaces.
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Is the former Governor General's palace now the Mayor's office?
I think it's nominally the same building, but some rather odd things happened to it in the Soviet era - it was moved back by a couple of inches and they put some extra storeys on top...
Janet
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I think it's nominally the same building, but some rather odd things happened to it in the Soviet era - it was moved back by a couple of inches and they put some extra storeys on top...
Janet
Somewhere here I've got a massive 3 volume set on 17-19th Century Muscovite architecture, which probably gives further details. But from memory, I seem to recall being told the old G-G Palace WAS (at least in 1992, when I asked) the Mayor's Office-so that's probably it-or at least was it. I remember it as a multi-storeyed (3 or 4?) neoclassical building, with a red facade and white pilasters and cornices. It seems to me as though it was much closer to the Kremlin than the address on the Tverskaya I have for the G-G Palace, though, which is why I was never certain about it actually having been Serge and Ella's official residence. That said, however, I'm on my way out the door but I'll dig out the books tonight when I get home tonight and if there is any information post it here.
Greg King
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I saw an antique engraving of the GG palace and as far as i know it´s more or less in the same place. When i saw it this last summer i found it quite altered(distorted?). As Greg says it was reconstructed following the communist fondness of enlarging buildings and therefore was, as the Paley palace in Tsarskoe, somehow redone. I do not know anything of the present state of its interiors but have no hope on this subject...
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That red and white palace was a Museum of the History of the Great October Revolution in the 1970's. When Stalin had Tverskaya widened I believe they moved the palace back and added the extra story mentioned above.
If I remember correctly the building had these sad lions in front that looked like more like big mean dogs than cats.
Bob
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If you look closely at the Mayor's Office building you can see the first 2 levels are different to the 2 above. The central columns on the lower half are squared while the upper 8? are rounded. The windows in the reconstructed levels are different ... much smaller. The more you look at the facade the more ugly it becomes.
I do not remember seeing any lions. However there is quite a stylish wrought iron double gates/fence to one side which still bares soviet symbols which was constructed in the 1940's. It provides an interesting contrast to the enormous gold-coloured Double-headed Eagle appended at the top of the facade.
The building faces the relatively new statue (1950's) of Yurii Dolgorukii who was the founder of Moscow.
Tverskaya Ulitsa like Nevsky Prospect was widened in the 1930's to permit the increase flow of traffic.
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since i cannot for the life of me remember in which topic (let alone which thread!) i saw the original request, i'm just going to start a new topic and hope the person who originally mentioned a desire to see the former Kremlin home of Serge & Ella, sees it.
their home in the Kremlin was the little Nicholas palace. it was from there that HIH the grand duke serge Aleksandrovitch of Russia and Governor-General of Moscow, left for his offices and was the victim of a revolutionary's bomb.
this photo shows the view from the Ivan Veliki looking north, with the small Nicholas palace in the foreground on the right; the other buildings shown, are:
the Chudov Monastery (left foreground); the church of the Archangel
Michael (background center w/ onion domes); and the court of Justice (in the back, on the left w/ the single large dome).
while the court of Justice building is still there, the other three buildings in foreground were razed and replaced with a "modern" theater.
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Thanks, I've never seen that. What a shame they are no longer standing :( Isn't it true that until recently Sergei's body had been literally paved over with a parking lot? :o :(
I also want to say thanks again for bringing us your awesome collection, you have so much we've never seen! I'm so glad you joined!
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i could be wrong, but i don't think his memorial exists anymore. Ella asked that it be built (i don't know if she or the state paid for it) and it was one of the first things destroyed by the revolutionary government (Serge was liked by very few).
also, i too am curious as to why Serge Aleksandrovitch's body was not re-buried in the Romanov crypt? maybe it boils down to money & publicity? reburying his body with even remotely similar equippage as those already resting there, would cost an enormous amount of money. and the world at large would have no clue whatsoever who he was; but reburying Nicholas II, Aleksandra, & family, while outrageously expensive, would (and did) reap even larger benefits in terms of publicity & revenue through various means.
but that's purely speculation, and he may be there resting peacefully.
does anyone know for sure?
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i could be wrong, but i don't think his memorial exists anymore. Ella asked that it be built (i don't know if she or the state paid for it) and it was one of the first things destroyed by the revolutionary government (Serge was liked by very few).
also, i too am curious as to why Serge Aleksandrovitch's body was not re-buried in the Romanov crypt? maybe it boils down to money & publicity? reburying his body with even remotely similar equippage as those already resting there, would cost an enormous amount of money. and the world at large would have no clue whatsoever who he was; but reburying Nicholas II, Aleksandra, & family, while outrageously expensive, would (and did) reap even larger benefits in terms of publicity & revenue through various means.
but that's purely speculation, and he may be there resting peacefully.
does anyone know for sure?
Yes, this is true. Sorry I omitted the date of the photo (it was 1910). I wonder how much it cost to rebury VM & Kyril? Since Serge wasn't liked or maybe even really known today, he certainly wouldn't need a big to-do like N&A and family who were the last imperial family. I know I have saved somewhere the information on the church where he's buried.
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The Grand Duke Sergei Alexandrovich was blown to pieces in the explosion. Marie Pavlovna (jnr) recalled in her memoirs how little there seemed to lie beneath the pall covering the stretcher which bore the remains which had been gathered and taken into one of the Kremlin churches.
I think I recall reading - at the time of the discovery of a coffin in a car park - that it contained a small effigy of the Grand Duke, dressed in uniform alongside lay his medals.
tsaria
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If Ella would not have renounced her position in the world and took the veil, where would she have lived after the death of Serge? Did she remain in The Nicholas Palace in the Kremlin? Would Illinskoye have remained hers?
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She still owned Ilinskoe & Nicholas gave her permission to go on living in the Kremlin for as long as she wanted. Serge also owned the Byeloselsky-Byelosersky in St. Petersburg which Ella handed over to Dmitri. She woukld basically have been LOADED with money but being so wonderfully good she kept hardly anything for herself :)
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That red and white palace was a Museum of the History of the Great October Revolution in the 1970's. When Stalin had Tverskaya widened I believe they moved the palace back and added the extra story mentioned above.
If I remember correctly the building had these sad lions in front that looked like more like big mean dogs than cats.
Bob
The palace you describe is the former English Club (Tverskaya 21) built originally in 1780 destroyed in the fire by Napoleon and renovated by an architect Menelas. Stylistically it belongs to Russian empire. English Club was an exclusive club for Russian nobility residing along Tverskaya. After the revolution of 1917 it was occupied by Revolution Museum, later it became an exhibition of presents offered to Stalin. Now it is the Museum of Modern Russian History. The lions guarding the entrance were a trendy accessory of a city mansion in the beginning of 19th century. It is particularly amusing because muscovites never saw a single lion. A notable exception took place when a couple of lions was presented to Russian Tzar Alexei Michailovich long before English Club.
As for the Palace of Governor General of Moscow (Tverskaya 13) you are referring to it was originally built in 1778-82 as the palace of General Governor count Chernyshov by the well-known Russian architect M.Kazakoff. The ancient bricks of recently destroyed city walls were used. The palace is an example of late Russian classicism. After count Chernyshoff death in 1784 the palace was purchased by State and since then it became the official residence of Moscow’s General Governors.
After the revolution of 1917 palace was occupied by Soviet administration, the place in front of it was named Sovietskaya and decorated with the gypsum monument to Revolution.
The palace was renovated in 1929-30th years during the reconstruction of Tverskaya street. It was moved to 13 meters in deep of the site. Later in 1946 2 floors were added to existing building by the architect Chechulin.
The walls were painted in red and classical details in white (the original palace was yellow and white which were the traditional colors of Russian classicism).
The interiors were also renovated, however original main staircase by Kazakoff is retained as well as White and Red Halls. The ceiling paintings of the original palace were restored by the Soviet painter Korin.
About monument in front of the palace. The square was named Skobelevskaya in honor of the hero of Russian-Turkish war general Skobeleff, an equestrial monument to whom stood in the centre. The Soviets replaced general by the sad gypsum woman, symbolising Revolution. The severe weather quickly destroyed sad symbol, and the place was empty until 1960th when it was decorated by the equestrial figure of Yuri Dolgoruki. Nowadays the palace belongs to Moscow administration.
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Once I saw a watercolor showing Sergei's dressing room in a palace of Moscow.
Does anyone have it? I am looking for it, but cannot find it.
Thanks so much
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For some who loves litterature could read the well known russian (anrachist ) author Savinkov.
His book pale horse("Memoirs of a Terrorist")deals with the murder and tentativs of murdering Ella's husband...interesting...
Savinkov who writes about his own experience as an anarchist has longly spied Sergei's home in the hope of catching some of the highest information for the succeed of the " operation".
Vassili
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Once I saw a watercolor showing Sergei's dressing room in a palace of Moscow.
Does anyone have it? I am looking for it, but cannot find it.
Thanks so much
I've just found out 2 pictures of 2 rooms of the Palace on Tverskaya (G-G mansion) in 1902-1909 years. They are drawing-rooms not dressing -room :)
Red Drawing room
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/drroomella.jpg)
I wonder who is in the portrait on the wall? Empress Maria Fedorovna? or GD Ella?
And another picture. A Drawign room of GDss Elizaveta Fedorovna (Ella)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/reddrroom.jpg)
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Svetabel - a million thanks for posting those watercolours. Grand Duchess Elizabeth Feodorovna's drawing room has her stamp ALL over it.
tsaria
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I've just found out 2 pictures of 2 rooms of the Palace on Tverskaya (G-G mansion) in 1902-1909 years. They are drawing-rooms not dressing -room :)
Dear Sveta,
THANKS A LOT the same :).
as you know I love watercolours!!!
You've made my day.
gleb
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I think it's Maria Fedorovna, but I am not a great expert.
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White Drawing Room
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/whitedrawignroom1900s.jpg)
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And 2 floorplans of the Mansion - 1t and 2nd floors - appartments of Grand Duke and Grand Duchess.
First floor
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/7e.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/7e.jpg)
Second floor
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/7f-.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/7f-.jpg)
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And that have been demolished,what a pity,it is just wonderful!
Thanks a million for sharing!
Vassia
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Svetabel,
Thank you so much for posting the plans of the Governor General's Palace. You always find the most interesting items to post. I do have a guestion that your source (or you yourself) might be able to answer. On the floorplan the front facade of the building has 15 window openings (and I assume on the 1st floor 14 + the main entrance. However pictures I have seen of the palace today show only 12 + the main entrance. It looks like the central entrance and facade were greatly altered and three of the windows were replaced by the large central French doors within the arch. Can you confirm this? Is there any description of what was altered on the building when it was moved back and renovated?
Thanks again for your wonderful posting. As usual, you add so much to the site.
BobG
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Bob, thanks for you kind words. :)
Well , as for the number of the windows on the front facade
In the XIX century
http://img1.msk.ru/data/uf/26937/3/49/34951.dnl_cemepuk-csaepmurnpu_mu_rbepjyni_okniudh._u._peianrr.jpg (http://img1.msk.ru/data/uf/26937/3/49/34951.dnl_cemepuk-csaepmurnpu_mu_rbepjyni_okniudh._u._peianrr.jpg)
And now, in the beginning of the 1990s
http://www.temples.ru/show_picture.php?PictureID=456 (http://www.temples.ru/show_picture.php?PictureID=456)
As I know the building was reconstructed in 1944-1947 years and the front facade was changed.
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Svetabel,
Another wonderful picture! I can just see a tiny bit of the Winter Garden on the left side of the building! It is so exciting to see the building exactly as it was shown in the floorplans. Thanks so much!
BobG
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more pictures of the G-G Mansion in the 1890s
http://fotomoscow.homefree.ru/album/1/1213.jpg (http://fotomoscow.homefree.ru/album/1/1213.jpg)
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Sveta,
You're definitely one of the pilasters of this Forum! :)
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Sveta,
You're definitely one of the pilasters of this Forum! :)
The Pilaster? :) Wow! Nice architectural compliment, thanks! :)
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Many thanks Svetabel for the incredible photographs and plans!
View of the Mansion c1896 during coronation celebrations:
http://photoarchive.spb.ru:9090/www/showChildObjects.do?object=2500416870
Joanna
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Svetabel,
Another wonderful picture! I can just see a tiny bit of the Winter Garden on the left side of the building! It is so exciting to see the building exactly as it was shown in the floorplans. Thanks so much!
BobG
looking @ the floorplan, i can't seem to figure-out where (over what) the Winter-Garden fits....
can anyone enlighten me?
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Brian,
On the ground floor plan (the one with the Winter Garden) shows a room below the "Rooms of GDss Maria Pavlovna". It the room next to the library. The winter garden went off that room to the left. You can see a little of it in both of the Svetabel's photos on the left side of the place
more pictures of the G-G Mansion in the 1890s
http://fotomoscow.homefree.ru/show/1/0/1213.jpg (http://fotomoscow.homefree.ru/show/1/0/1213.jpg)
http://www.gelos.ru/month/jan2007/bigimages/m14.jpg (http://www.gelos.ru/month/jan2007/bigimages/m14.jpg)
(the Mansion is on the bottom of the page )
It also looks like there is a stairway (to the garden probably) leading from the room labeled "Rooms of GDss Maria Pavlovna"
BobG
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Sveta,
You're definitely one of the pilasters of this Forum! :)
i, most definately, second that!!
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Interior of the Church in the G-G Mansion in 1904 year
(http://www.picatom.com/1s/1904-2-th.jpg) (http://www.picatom.com/1s/1904-2.html)
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Album “Views of the Church, Living Quarters and Staterooms in the Moscow Governor-General’s Mansion” 1902-1909 - 14 watercolors.
Boudoir GD Elizabeth F.
http://pics.livejournal.com/punto_di_vista/pic/000zkw8p/s640x480
Cabinet GD Sergei A.
http://pics.livejournal.com/punto_di_vista/pic/000zqhxp/s640x480
Crimson Drawing Room
http://pics.livejournal.com/punto_di_vista/pic/000zpcce/s640x480
White Hall
http://pics.livejournal.com/punto_di_vista/pic/000zr3bq/s640x480
Cabinet GD Elizabeth F.
http://pics.livejournal.com/punto_di_vista/pic/00118red/s640x480
Joanna
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Ball Room in the G-G. mansion. Photo of 1890s
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/b8491183.jpg)
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Once I saw a watercolor showing Sergei's dressing room in a palace of Moscow.
Does anyone have it? I am looking for it, but cannot find it.
Thanks so much
I guess you mean this one Dressing-room of GD Sergei in the G-G mansion
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/c6e1f4f7.jpg)
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Study of GDss Elizaveta in 1900 year.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/1900.jpg)
And her Sitting-room (private apartments) in 1902 year.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/1902.jpg)
The another angle of this room had already been posted in the posts above.
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Artist Nivinsky's watercolors of the interiors of the mansion:
http://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.com/2018/10/album-of-interiors-of-grand-duke-sergei.html
Joanna