Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about Other Imperial Palaces => Palaces in the Crimea => Topic started by: Sarai on March 23, 2004, 02:05:19 PM

Title: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: Sarai on March 23, 2004, 02:05:19 PM: I would like to know if other Romanov Crimean estates survive to this day, such as G.D. Alexander Mikhailovich's Ai-Todor and G.D. Constantine Constantinovich's Oreanda. It would be great to have a list of all the Romanov Crimean estates, whom they belonged to, and which of those have survived.

In Prince Michael of Greece's book Nicholas and Alexandra: The Family Albums, there are also several photographs of a Crimean zoological park of sorts called Kozmodemiansk showing the Tsar and his children having fun there, hiding amongst the tall grasses, playing in the fountains and streams, etc. Makes me wonder whether this survives as well.
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: Jane on March 23, 2004, 03:56:45 PM: Hello Sarai,

Greg King and Penny Wilson devoted an issue of Atlantis Magazine to the Romanovs in the Crimea, including historical backgrounds of the palaces, and Perry and Pleshakov's "The Flight of the Romanovs" (briefly) refers to the fate of a number of the palaces.

From what I understand, GD Alexander Mikhailovich's palace at Ai Todor was destroyed during WWII. GD Dmitri's "Kichkine" is used as a travel and conference center by the Ukrainian government (MOD). GD Peter N.'s "Djulber" is still extant, and is currenly used as a sanitorium. "Massandra" and "Livadia" are museums now, open to the public. The Yusupovs' villa still stands (possibly a sanitorium? unsure). As to the fate of villas like Chaeer and Harax, I am not sure. Can anyone expand/clarify/correct or otherwise add to the list? Is the Crimea still a strong resort destination? By all accounts I have seen, it looks to be an incredibly beautiful region, although I am ashamed to admit I still often (erroneously) think of it being a place in Russia, rather than the Ukraine.

Regards,

Jane
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: BobAtchison on March 23, 2004, 04:13:15 PM: Harax is still there, the seacliff-perched pavillion of Ai-Todor was still there (although in great danger of falling)...

Bob
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: Jane on March 23, 2004, 05:28:30 PM: Bob, can you refresh my memory--who built Harax? Was it one of the "Nikolaivichi" grand dukes? Can you describe it for us?

I've seen photos of the little pavilion perched on the cliffs of Cape Ai-Todor. I've read that it was used as a restaurant? Can that possibly be true? Also, surely that wasn't Sandro and Xenia's palace? I thought that the main villa had been destroyed by the Nazis, but I might be wrong...

Jane
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: BobAtchison on March 23, 2004, 06:24:17 PM: Harax was built in 1907 for Grand Duke George and his wife Marie - it was designed by the architect Kranov - who later built the new Livadia palace for Nicholas and Alexandra.

Yes the pavillion at Ai Todor was a restaurant in Soviet times - I don't know what they are doing with it these days.

Bob
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: Mary Breheny on March 23, 2004, 08:41:30 PM: When I visited the Crimea in 1976 I saw a charming little "castle" hovering on the side of a hill above the sea not too far from Livadia. We were told that it was a restaurant, and that it was called "The Swallow's Nest." Could this have been the Pavilion at Ai-Todor that you mention?

M. Breheny
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: Janet Whitcomb on March 23, 2004, 09:13:31 PM: Hi Mary--

No, I don't believe so. During my 1991 tour group visit, we also visited Swallow's Nest. It is charming, but as I understand it was built by a German industrialist around 1912. Lots of legends around it . . . of course, the locale and design invites legends! We just climbed up to Swallow's Nest, walked around it--don't do so if you have vertigo, the walled walkway is narrow!--but didn't go inside because it was filled with customers, and of course it was also very expensive. But that was the sum of the experience. If I return to Yalta I'll skip Swallow's Nest and spend more time at Livadia, Chekhov's home, and also Yalta itself. (I am sure OTMAA must have marveled at it, perched so high and so precariously, just as we continue to marvel at it today!)

By the way, I just received a letter from our tour guide, Vladimir, with whom I continue to correspond, and he told me university students have been setting up road blocks on the way to places like Swallow's Nest, then charge a fee to unsuspecting tourists before they are allowed to pass. Not to commend Communism, but I doubt this type of dubious entrepreneurship would have been allowed in Soviet Russia!
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: Greg_King on March 23, 2004, 09:49:20 PM: Details from memory-

The Crimean estates (Imperial):

1. Livadia:
A) The Old Palace (built by Ippolit Monighetti in 1862-66 for Alexander II, pulled down in 1909 to build Krasnov's White Palace for Nicholas and Alexandra)
B) The Maly Palace (built in 1866-68 by Monighetti for Tsesarevich Alexander Alexandrovich and his family, burned in WWII-the site is now a tennis court)
C) The White Palace, built by Nicholas Krasnov for Nicholas and Alexandra 1910-1911, now a museum.

2. Massandra, purchased by Alexander III, still standing-the Palace is now a museum.

3. Orienda, built by Nicholas I as a gift for his wife Alexandra (designed by Karl Friedrich Schinkel, adapted by Andrei Stackenschneider in 1852, burnt 1881. The small wooden dacha used by the Konstantinovichii family is still there as are the ruins of the old palace) Purchased for the Crown in 1894.

4. Dulber (designed by Nicholas Krasnov for Grand Duke Peter Nikolaievich, now a resort)

5. Tchair (designed by Krasnov for Grand Duke Nicholas Nikolaievich), now a museum

6. Kichkine (designed by Krasnov for Grand Duke Dimitri Konstantinovich, now a resort)

7. Ai-Todor (built for Grand Duke Michael Nikolaievich, burned in WWII)

8. Harax (built by Krasnov for Grand Duke George Mikhailovich, now a hospital)

The Yusupov Estates:

1. Koreiz (now a resort)
2. Kokoz (under restoration)
3. Estate at Balaklava (don't recall name or fate)

Also, aside from a number of other estates like Alupka, don't forget the Emir of Bokhara's Palace in Yalta, by Krasnov, which is still standing and now a museum.

Greg King
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: Janet_Ashton on March 24, 2004, 07:17:35 AM: Quote
Bob, can you refresh my memory--who built Harax? Was it one of the "Nikolaivichi" grand dukes? Can you describe it for us?

Jane

It looks like an English suburban villa of that era - rather arts-and-craftsy in design, and a bit out of place - but I like that style :-)

Janet
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: BobAtchison on March 24, 2004, 10:27:41 AM: More on Livadia:

At the end of the 18th century the estate was owned by Commander Colonel Reveliotti. In 1834 it was sold to a Polish Magnate, Leo Potolsky who had the Architect Eshliman construct large buildings on the state and later a huge park including vineyards was put in by Delinger. In 1861 the estate was bought by Alexander II and presented to his wife Maria Alexandrovna. Livadia was a personal estate of the Empress and was passed down from her in the family.

Alexander II sent Monigetti to build a new big palace and a small palace which were under construction from 1862 to 1866. At this time there were altogether 70 buildings on the estate.

In 1891 the estate was enlarged by Alexander II through the purchase of Oreanda.

On December 12, 1909 it was decided to demolish the old big palace. The cornerstone of the new building by Krasnov was laid on Alexandra's namesday - April 23, 1910. The new palace was 'consecrated' on September 20, 1911.

Nicholas Petrovich Krasnov was born into a peasant family. He became town architect of Yalta. Besides Livadia he built Koriez, Dulber, Harax, Ai-Todor and Chaeer for thr Yussopovs and Romanovs. He was born in 1864, emigrated from Livadia and the Crimea in May 1919 and died in Yugoslavia in 1939. Here he is....

Bob

(http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/images/krasnov.jpg)
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: Janet Whitcomb on March 24, 2004, 12:10:40 PM: Thank you for the wonderful photos, both of Harax and the architect of Livadia, as well as the information! I have a book of memoirs--the author's name I do not presently remember--which makes frequent mention of Harax. When I have the chance I will return to this section with the exact title and author. The author socialized with the Romanovs, staying at Harax while in the Crimea. (She was not terribly fond of Alexandra but liked Nicholas very much.) At any rate, for anyone wanting to know more about Harax, this book might be of interest.
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: Antonio_P.Caballer on March 24, 2004, 12:28:38 PM: Hello Sarai,
That book could be "Not all vanity"?
The writer is Baroness Agnes de Stoeckle.
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: Antonio_P.Caballer on March 24, 2004, 12:33:37 PM: She was with the Grand Duchess George and met the Tsar in the Crimea many times.
I really like this book and her recollections and would recommend it to anyone. She fairly described Grand Duchess Olga 16 birthday ball in Livadia...
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: Janet Whitcomb on March 24, 2004, 12:53:51 PM: That's the one! It's sentimental and at times gossipy, and definitely has its own charm . . . certainly not academic, but of interest for anyone wanting to temporarily immerse themselves in those times. The Baroness' voice comes through very well . . . very much like taking tea with the lady herself and listening to her many life experiences.
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: Jane on March 24, 2004, 01:42:50 PM: Thanks to all for the fascinating information reagrding the Crimean palaces! :) And special thanks to the FA for posting the picture of Harax--like Janet, I like the style, but Harax does look rather unusual (architecturally speaking) for nineteenth-century Russia. From the picture, it could be Sussex, England. I will try to track down the memoirs of the baroness; sounds like very interesting reading. I simply love this site, I have learned so much here.

Jane
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: BobAtchison on March 30, 2004, 08:31:49 AM: The English style was quite fashionable at the time for estates like Harax.... Boris Vladimirovich had an English Tudor-style villa built in Tsarskoe Selo - designed by an architect from the Maples branch in Petersburg and furnished by them. It still exists. The ground floor of the Alexander Palace on the right hand side had rooms called "the English Suite" that were decorated by Boris's designer.

When I mentioned the demolishing of the old palace of Livadia I should have mentioned that buildeings had to be demolished in winter -spring to avoid dust.

The palace was demolished because it was dark and dreary - but also because it was terribly unhealthy. Nicholas became very sick there. Everyone became ill there because of the drains and plumbing. The children were always getting sick when they stayed there. Also the plumbing smelled.

The plumbing could not be brought up par and court officials did not want to take responsibility for what might happen to the Tsar's family - so they urged the Tsar to tear it down.

The family avoided the Winter Palace for similar reasons. Tatiana got sick there in 1913.

Bob
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: Jane on March 30, 2004, 10:48:00 AM: Bob, thank you for the information about Boris V. et al. I was not aware that the "neo" Tudor and Jacobean architectural styles really had any level of popularity in pre-Revolutionary Russia (beyond AF's devotion to the "English" look in her homes). It's interesting to me, because it seems so incongruous to think of that style of building in Russia.

Best,

Jane
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: Janet Whitcomb on March 30, 2004, 01:52:28 PM: I've read conflicting reports about how much of the old palace at Livadia was demolished. Were any of the buildings retained? My visit 13 years ago was all too short--and we were taken around to so many other places as well--but I do remember a wax museum adjacent the main palace, with representations of the Romanovs, Rasputin, etc. Now I would ask about those buildings, as well as many, many other questions . . . at the time it was so overwhelming!!
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: Ammie on April 07, 2004, 04:57:09 PM: I was wondering if anyone could post a picture of Ai-Todor, I would greatly appreciate it. :)
TIA
Ammie
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: jfkhaos on June 24, 2004, 10:58:01 AM: Here is a picture of the Yussopov villa at Koriez:

(http://www.alexanderpalace.org/lostsplendor/images/crimea.jpg)

This picture can be found in Lost Splendor by Felix Yussopov on this website.
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: jfkhaos on June 24, 2004, 11:24:14 AM: I have not been successful in finding any pictures of Ai-Todor on the internet except for The Swallow's Nest. If I find anything I will certainly post it.
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: jfkhaos on June 24, 2004, 11:30:03 AM: A picture of Massandra:

(http://www.intours.netfirms.com/Russian/english/tours/Crimea/massandra.JPG)
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: jfkhaos on June 24, 2004, 11:34:13 AM: Kichkine:

(http://www.kontorakuka.ru/countries/europe/ukraine/crimea/jpeg/kichkine.jpg)
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: BobAtchison on August 25, 2004, 09:15:05 AM: I just reread Tatiana Metternich's great book and she mentions her family stayed at Harax for two years after the revolution. She says the Dowager Empress granted it to them. This might be an interesting chapter to put on the site.

Bob
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: Mike on October 29, 2004, 06:59:05 AM: Quote
what is the meaning of "Ai-Todor", and "A-Petri"

St. Theodor and St. Peter respectively, from Greek.
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: brnbg aka: liljones1968 on November 29, 2004, 04:28:44 AM: Quote
Kichkine:

(http://www.kontorakuka.ru/countries/europe/ukraine/crimea/jpeg/kichkine.jpg)

are you sure that's Kichkine? it looks an awful lot like Djulber.
(did they look that much alike?)

it seems to have the same "fortifications" that were mentioned re: Djulber. that was one reason why it (Djulber) was chosen as the place to keep the members of the IF....it was defensable.
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: BobAtchison on November 29, 2004, 10:08:26 AM: Yes, you can see the high walls there - a very good and useful shot...
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: brnbg aka: liljones1968 on December 11, 2004, 06:31:52 PM: Quote
I found this picture, and although small in scope, it shows Grand Duchess Ksenia, Grand Duke Alexander, and some of their children on the verandah of Ai Todor:

(http://www.hultonarchive.com/images/pictures/96e10/huch/3522/close/09.jpg)

i figured since the Hulton Archive shut down, i'd post the image (i hope this is the right one......) as well as one of Sandro & his sons.

.
.
.
.
.
.
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: Svetabel on January 14, 2005, 04:57:42 AM: Thank you,Brian! Marvellous pics!
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: Janet_W. on January 14, 2005, 12:46:25 PM: The immediacy of these photos is marvelous. My thanks also, Brian! :D
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: hikaru on June 25, 2005, 10:14:09 AM: There were a Chaere estate of Anastashiya Nikolaevna
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: hikaru on July 31, 2005, 03:29:23 PM: There were a very popular tango - song in 30-40 of 20th century called : " At the Park of Tchair"
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: Athena on August 11, 2005, 05:26:55 AM: Quote
Here are two different views of Alupka:

(http://www.lst.com.ua/yalta12.jpg)

(http://www.lst.com.ua/cr13_l.jpg)

ALUPKA ISN´t ROMANOVS PALAST - Vorontsov Palast ;D
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: Svetabel on September 10, 2006, 11:37:46 AM: Back to Kichkine, an estate of GD Dmitriy Konstantinovich.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/kichkine0.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/kichkine.jpg)

The palace in Kichkine was built in 1912-1913. Some of the inside of the rooms were from Oreanda's palace, former possession of Gd Konstantin, father of GD Dmitriy K. Sadly, the interiors are lost.
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: Svetabel on December 01, 2006, 04:23:20 PM: One more of Kichkine.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/kichkine-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: Vassili_Vorontsoff on December 03, 2006, 05:33:07 PM: A view of the Harax estate,it seems to have qsome work to open to a large public...

(http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/4936/haraxjpgin3.th.jpg) (http://img87.imageshack.us/my.php?image=haraxjpgin3.jpg)

Vassili
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: paulamct on April 26, 2007, 09:59:27 PM: You can locate various palaces in the Crimea on Google Earth e.g. Livadia, Koreiz but I cannot pinpoint exactly whiich is which palace amongst the rest. Would like to know where Ai Todor was located etc - can someone help?
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: gleb on June 02, 2009, 08:21:18 AM: http://relicfinder.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=40&p=15296 (http://relicfinder.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=40&p=15296)

At the end of the page there is a photo of Chair, the home of Stana and Grand Duke Nikolaj Nikolaevich. It is the only photo I have ever seen.
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: Svetabel on June 02, 2009, 12:38:58 PM: Quote from: gleb on June 02, 2009, 08:21:18 AM
http://relicfinder.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=40&p=15296 (http://relicfinder.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=40&p=15296)

At the end of the page there is a photo of Chair, the home of Stana and Grand Duke Nikolaj Nikolaevich. It is the only photo I have ever seen.

Here'a also Chair:

(http://radikal.ru/F/i012.radikal.ru/0811/53/0d8b70f8bf64.jpg)
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: gleb on June 03, 2009, 10:54:21 AM: Hi Sveta,

I don't know if other users can see the photo, but I can't.
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: BobG on June 03, 2009, 04:56:02 PM: Sorry, Gleb, Svetabel's photo shows up fine for me.
BobG
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: Svetabel on November 02, 2009, 07:54:50 AM: Harax, the mansion of GD Georgiy M.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Palaces/harax-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: ashanti01 on November 20, 2009, 12:08:44 AM: Oreanda

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/Oreanda.jpg)
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: primrose on December 05, 2009, 07:56:32 PM: Recent photos taken at Harax on a misty grey day...

(http://URL=http://s829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/?action-view&current=Harax1.jpg][img]http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/th_Harax1.jpg)[/URL][/img]
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: primrose on December 07, 2009, 02:49:48 PM: sorry... can't seem to get the images up on the board.
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: primrose on December 07, 2009, 06:12:31 PM: (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/b797d227.jpg)
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: primrose on December 07, 2009, 06:18:44 PM: (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/8ab32fa4.jpg)
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: primrose on December 07, 2009, 06:20:59 PM: (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/bb9e87b6.jpg)
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: primrose on December 07, 2009, 06:22:56 PM: (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/4ae0c580.jpg)
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: primrose on December 07, 2009, 06:25:28 PM: (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/2e894596.jpg)
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: primrose on December 07, 2009, 06:27:00 PM: (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/Harax6-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: primrose on December 07, 2009, 06:28:21 PM: (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/Harax8-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: primrose on December 07, 2009, 06:30:45 PM: (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/Harax9-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: primrose on December 07, 2009, 06:33:05 PM: (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/Harax10.jpg)
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: primrose on December 07, 2009, 06:35:00 PM: Harax -- Designed by Nicholas Krazov for G.D. George Mikhailovich

We arrived at what appeared to be a deserted estate; though it is an operating sanatorium and spa for government officials there were few signs of life anywhere. The house had a dejected air, looked as if it needed a little TLC. Although we couldn’t get inside we spent a long time in the gardens which I found enchanting... they must once have been glorious and even now there is an echo of their former beauty as well as an atmosphere that seemed almost other-worldly, as though there were spirits dwelling in the woods. At some distance from the house there’s an archaeological site which was once a Roman garrison named Harakc; now a reconstructed classical temple with columns from the original Oreanda estate overlooks the sea. I was struck by the great sense of peace in these gardens, perhaps it was because we were the only ones there but I think it was more than that... nearly impossible to imagine that it was from this estate that the last of the senior Romanovs fled from Russia.
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: Condecontessa on December 08, 2009, 08:18:26 PM: May I ask what month you went to Harax?
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: primrose on December 08, 2009, 10:50:42 PM: I was there this last September...
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: primrose on December 12, 2009, 12:36:34 PM: Koreiz -- Designed by Nicholas Krazov for the Yusupov family

Security at the entrance to Koreiz is extremely tight, but once we were past the guard post it was like a step back in time... The winding drive to the palace, through gorgeous well-tended grounds, is very impressive. The facade and front gardens are in excellent condition, clearly much money is being spent on upkeep. At present this property is solely for the use of the President of the Ukraine and his family members. We were permitted to enter the palace, saw the foyer, the White Dining Room where the parents of Irina and Felix met to discuss the marriage plans, and the billiard room, still furnished with a huge hulk of a pool table and large overstuffed ‘60s laz-e-boy chairs left from KGB Soviet days. Very dark and gloomy. Then came the apartments of Princess Zenaida, Felix’s mother, where guests were in residence and invited us in to have a look. The large sitting room leads out to terraces overlooking the rear gardens and the appearance is much the same as it was before the Revolution. Lush and verdant, almost like a dream scene...

We walked out the side entrance of the apartments and wandered around the adjoining gardens -- lots of crenellated stonework with tiny paths and stairways hidden from view -- and then beyond, beautiful views of the sea. I got a glimpse of the entrance to an underground bunker erected for Stalin back in the cold war days... sent an icy shiver up my spine!

*images are posted below
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: primrose on December 12, 2009, 12:39:01 PM: hmmm... code not working... back to the drawing board!!!
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: primrose on December 12, 2009, 02:15:49 PM: http://(http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/yusupov/th_yusupov1.jpg) (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/yusupov/yusupov1.jpg)
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: primrose on December 12, 2009, 02:19:37 PM: (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/yusupov/th_yusupov2.jpg) (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/yusupov/yusupov2.jpg)

(http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/yusupov/th_yusupov3.jpg) (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/yusupov/yusupov3.jpg)
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: primrose on December 12, 2009, 02:21:19 PM: (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/yusupov/th_yusupov4.jpg) (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/yusupov/yusupov4.jpg)

(http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/yusupov/th_yusupov5.jpg) (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/yusupov/yusupov5.jpg)
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: primrose on December 12, 2009, 02:22:57 PM: (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/yusupov/th_yusupov6.jpg) (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/yusupov/yusupov6.jpg)

(http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/yusupov/th_yusupov7.jpg) (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/yusupov/yusupov7.jpg)
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: primrose on December 12, 2009, 02:24:21 PM: (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/yusupov/th_yusupov8.jpg) (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/yusupov/yusupov8.jpg)

(http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/yusupov/th_yusupov9.jpg) (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/yusupov/yusupov9.jpg)
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: Carisbrooke on December 17, 2009, 01:57:02 AM: Great photo's primrose. You seem to have caught all these places in a time warp. I would love to see the livadia palace & all the other surrounding attractions that the IF would have known so well. I should think its every forum members dream to go to the crimea & see these sights, though I wonder how many of us will take the time out of our lives and actually do it.

Thanks for posting the pics, more if you have them please. I like livadia palace (hint).
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: primrose on December 17, 2009, 10:43:31 AM: Thanks very much for your comments Carisbrooke... I had begun to think that no one found these of interest!

I do have a few Livadia images as well as some of Dulber and Kichkine, will get them posted this weekend.
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: NurseVickie on December 17, 2009, 01:57:56 PM: Your sense of photography, the essence of capturing a moment is fanstatic. I very much enjoyed those you have posted. They give an idea of a moment caught in a lost time, that if we knew the magic words to pronounce we could be transported to that time, never to be brought back to the harsh present. Your are truly an artist. Vickie
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: primrose on December 18, 2009, 12:00:16 PM: Vickie... thanks for your kind words. I was lucky to be at these sites when there was no one else around and I had the freedom to roam through the gardens. I really fell under the spell of these estates and hope to be able to return next year and spend a bit more time exploring.

primrose
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: NurseVickie on December 18, 2009, 05:30:30 PM: Oh how lucky to be able to visit these sites. It's a far far way from southern Alabama, USA. At these I can see these sites through the eyes of someone else. And lucky I am that I have the eyes of you, an artist to see through. Thanks so much for your beautiful pictures.
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: primrose on December 20, 2009, 12:48:48 PM: Kichkine -- designed by Nikolai Tarasov for Grand Duke Dimitry Constantinovich

This charming small palace is also closed to the public and at present is undergoing restoration. Until now it has functioned as sanatorium for government officials but I understand that when the work is completed it will be used (unofficially) by the Prime Minister of the Ukraine. We were unable to see the interior (knocked on the entrance door several times but no one answered), but we did wander through the gardens. When the restoration is complete--both house and grounds--it will be a jewel.

The final image in this set shows the apartments of G.D. Dimitry, apparently he was somewhat reclusive; I was told that he liked to turn the house over to nieces and nephews and disappear into his 'aerie'.
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: primrose on December 20, 2009, 12:50:59 PM: (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/kichkine/th_kichkine1.jpg) (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/kichkine/kichkine1.jpg)

(http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/kichkine/th_kichkine2.jpg) (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/kichkine/kichkine2.jpg)
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: primrose on December 20, 2009, 12:53:38 PM: (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/kichkine/th_kichkine3.jpg) (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/kichkine/kichkine3.jpg)

(http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/kichkine/th_Kichkine4.jpg) (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/kichkine/Kichkine4.jpg)
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: primrose on December 20, 2009, 12:55:56 PM: (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/kichkine/th_Kichkine5.jpg) (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/kichkine/Kichkine5.jpg)

(http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/kichkine/th_kichkine6.jpg) (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/kichkine/kichkine6.jpg)
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: primrose on December 20, 2009, 09:01:40 PM: Dulber -- designed by Nicholas Krasnov for Grand Duke Peter Nikolaevich

Dulber Palace no longer sits in solitary splendor in the countryside as it once did; tall apartment-type buildings now push up against the gardens, and it can be difficult to get a photo without including edges of the modern world. But it is a striking, exotic, captivating piece of architecture and considering it is almost 100 years old and has been in constant use I think it looks quite amazing. These days it is a spa/sanatorium for Deputies of the Ukraine Parliament and their families and there seemed to be quite a few of them out and about. We were allowed in the entryway but didn't see any of the rooms, though I did get a photo of a couple of the original chandeliers in the long hallway which has been photographed by others.

All the senior Romanovs were imprisoned in Dulber for several weeks in the spring of 1918, and only the arrival of the Germans following the signing of the separate peace saved them from annihilation by the Bolsheviks.
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: primrose on December 20, 2009, 09:04:04 PM: (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/dulber/th_dulber01.jpg) (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/dulber/dulber01.jpg)

(http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/dulber/th_dulber1.jpg) (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/dulber/dulber1.jpg)

(http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/dulber/th_dulber2.jpg) (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/dulber/dulber2.jpg)
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: primrose on December 20, 2009, 09:07:01 PM: (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/dulber/th_dulber3.jpg) (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/dulber/dulber3.jpg)

(http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/dulber/th_dulber4.jpg) (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/dulber/dulber4.jpg)

(http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/dulber/th_dulber5.jpg) (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/dulber/dulber5.jpg)
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: primrose on December 20, 2009, 09:09:29 PM: (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/dulber/th_dulber6.jpg) (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/dulber/dulber6.jpg)

(http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/dulber/th_dulber7.jpg) (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/dulber/dulber7.jpg)

(http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/dulber/th_dulber8.jpg) (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/dulber/dulber8.jpg)
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: NurseVickie on December 21, 2009, 12:07:12 PM: Primrose, As I would expect from you, beautiful pictures. Are these Lividia? What time of year is it? Just gorgeous. Vickie
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: primrose on December 21, 2009, 12:20:20 PM: Hi Vickie,
These images are of Dulber Palace... I wrote a few lines about it but the description is at the bottom of page 5. They were taken in September 2009, same time as the others I've posted.

primrose
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: richard_1990 on December 23, 2009, 03:12:04 AM: Are they private residences? Or owned by the government?
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: primrose on December 23, 2009, 11:52:28 AM: All of these palaces are now owned by the Ukrainian government. After the Revolution the Soviets took them over either for sanatoriums or summer homes for Soviet elite. As far as I know they've never been in private hands but interestingly in the area around Koreiz, the Yusupov palace, lots of 'MacMansions' are being built by Russian oligarchs.
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: Student of History on January 30, 2010, 03:13:11 AM: Primrose,
Thank you for caring enough to share your pictures and insights of these wonderful estates with those of us unable to visit the Ukraine.
Regards,
SOH
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: primrose on January 31, 2010, 04:46:09 PM: Thanks for your kind words, SOH!

Livadia Palace -- designed by Nicholas Krasnov

I'm posting the final set of my images of the Crimean Palaces; for the most part these are not the usual views of Livadia but rather things that caught my eye and interest. Please feel free to ask questions and make comments, I would welcome the feedback.

1 & 2 - This is the original Romanov entrance to Livadia, now closed to the public

(http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/Livadia/th_livadia01.jpg) (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/Livadia/livadia01.jpg)

(http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/Livadia/th_livadia02.jpg) (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/Livadia/livadia02.jpg)
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: primrose on January 31, 2010, 04:49:28 PM: 3 - Before the Revolution this building housed the power plant. It is now known as the "Organ House"

(http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/Livadia/th_livadia03.jpg) (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/Livadia/livadia03.jpg)
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: primrose on January 31, 2010, 04:52:26 PM: 4 & 5 - One of the buildings in the stables complex, now under restoration and reputedly to be used as a residence.

(http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/Livadia/th_livadia04.jpg) (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/Livadia/livadia04.jpg)

(http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/Livadia/th_livadia05.jpg) (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/Livadia/livadia05.jpg)
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: primrose on January 31, 2010, 04:58:19 PM: 6 - First view of Livadia Palace coming from the main drive and parking area.

(http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/Livadia/th_livadia06.jpg) (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/Livadia/livadia06.jpg)

7 - Doorway in the Moorish inner courtyard

(http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/Livadia/th_livadia07.jpg) (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/Livadia/livadia07.jpg)
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: primrose on January 31, 2010, 05:03:01 PM: 8 & 9 - Decorative details on the second floor, the stained glass is reputedly by Tiffany

(http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/Livadia/th_livadia08.jpg) (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/Livadia/livadia08.jpg)

(http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/Livadia/th_livadia09.jpg) (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/Livadia/livadia09.jpg)
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: primrose on January 31, 2010, 05:08:11 PM: 10 & 11 - Family snapshots of Tsarevich Alexei

(http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/Livadia/th_alexi-3-1.jpg) (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/Livadia/alexi-3-1.jpg)

(http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/Livadia/th_alexi-1.jpg) (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/Livadia/alexi-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: primrose on January 31, 2010, 05:10:02 PM: 12 - Poignant snapshot of the Imperial Family

(http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/Livadia/th_family.jpg) (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/Livadia/family.jpg)
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: primrose on January 31, 2010, 05:13:52 PM: 13 - It had been raining lightly when we arrived at Livadia, and while we toured the house there was a downpour. But as we walked out the door, this was the amazing view that met our eyes!

(http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/Livadia/th_livadialast.jpg) (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/Livadia/livadialast.jpg)
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: Student of History on January 31, 2010, 06:49:26 PM: Quote from: primrose on January 31, 2010, 05:03:01 PM
8 & 9 - Decorative details on the second floor, the stained glass is reputedly by Tiffany

(http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/Livadia/th_livadia08.jpg) (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/Livadia/livadia08.jpg)

(http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/Livadia/th_livadia09.jpg) (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/Livadia/livadia09.jpg)

Tiffany & Co.?
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: BobG on January 31, 2010, 07:25:52 PM: Louis Comfort Tiffany was a designer of stained glass products including many beautiful stained glass windows all over the world. The term "Tiffany Lamp" refers to stained glass lamps that Tiffany's studio produced as table and ceiling lamps. I don't believe there's a connection with Tiffany & Co., but I can't say that for certain.

More information can be found here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiffany_glass (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiffany_glass)

BobG
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: Carisbrooke on February 01, 2010, 06:52:47 AM: Thanks for posting the livadia photo's, great work yet again primrose.
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: Student of History on February 01, 2010, 05:21:31 PM: Thank you for clarifying BobG, I hadn't put two and two together.
And thanks again to Primrose. I love your pictures of Alexei!. I tried to post some images last night, will try again shortly. Any tips?
SOH
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: primrose on February 01, 2010, 11:12:20 PM: re: posting images... it took me weeks to master getting images up on these boards. The biggest problem is that you can't post them straight from your computer, you have to join a website that will store the images for you. I used photobucket and with the help of one of the AP monitors finally managed to get them all edited and up. My first ones (Harax) were the most difficult because I couldn't figure out how to create thumbnails. Now it's easier but a long process (at least for me) if you're adding text also..

My take is that the younger one is the easier it will be... a 12 year old could probably master it in less than an hour!
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: primrose on February 01, 2010, 11:16:25 PM: Carisbrooke,

Thanks for your welcome words...

I'll be out your way in a couple of weeks, pity O.H. won't be open but I'll probably go wandering around the grounds..
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: Alexander1917 on February 02, 2010, 10:03:19 AM: please, could someone help me to locate the imperial palaces (Harax, Djulber, Ai-Todor...)?
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: primrose on February 02, 2010, 01:09:58 PM: Here's a map... you'll probably need hand lens to decipher it...

(http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/crimea%20maps/th_yaltamap.jpg) (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/crimea%20maps/yaltamap.jpg)

(http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/th_mapkey.jpg) (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/mapkey.jpg)

I actually thought the map would be much larger, perhaps I can get up a second one later today.
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: Condecontessa on February 02, 2010, 01:29:12 PM: Thank you primrose!!! I've been looking for an english map of Crimea and the surroundings. It gives me a perspective of how the palaces are laid out. :)
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: Alexander1917 on February 02, 2010, 02:36:18 PM: GREAT!!
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: primrose on February 02, 2010, 07:55:33 PM: ~king size~

(http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/crimea%20maps/th_palacemap-1.jpg) (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/crimea%20maps/palacemap-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: primrose on February 02, 2010, 10:36:14 PM: Here's an image taken from another Crimean map, one I took with me and used on the trip as it was easier to follow. After we had visited all the palaces I had my friend write directly on the map where each palace is located.

This is a great travel map, in English, and I've done a scan of the cover so that those of you who'd like to get a copy can easily find it on the internet.

(http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/crimea%20maps/th_sergeismap.jpg) (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/crimea%20maps/sergeismap.jpg)

(http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/crimea%20maps/th_internationaltravelmaps.jpg) (http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz220/akilina_2009/crimea%20maps/internationaltravelmaps.jpg)
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: Alexander1917 on June 14, 2010, 10:45:07 AM: Again a big thanks, for this map, it was really helpful at my trip in June 2010, I found all places and palaces.
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: primrose on June 15, 2010, 05:48:12 PM: That's terrific , Alexander.... so glad to hear it!

Hope you'll post about your trip... I'd love to know where you went and what your impressions were.

primrose
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: Alexander1917 on June 16, 2010, 12:12:41 PM: Quote from: primrose on June 15, 2010, 05:48:12 PM
That's terrific , Alexander.... so glad to hear it!

Hope you'll post about your trip... I'd love to know where you went and what your impressions were.

primrose

I still have some pics posted, may in other crimean toppics
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: Alexander1917 on August 07, 2012, 01:23:57 PM: here some new pics from mey visit July 2012 at HARAX

(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w245/alexander1917/140_6074_600x600_100KB.jpg)
side view

(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w245/alexander1917/140_6113_600x600_100KB.jpg)
corridore/hall

(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w245/alexander1917/140_6120_600x600_100KB.jpg)

stairs
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: Alexander1917 on August 07, 2012, 01:26:52 PM: (http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w245/alexander1917/140_6121_600x600_100KB.jpg)
upper vestibule

(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w245/alexander1917/140_6123_600x600_100KB.jpg)

glasdoor upper vestibule

(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w245/alexander1917/140_6130_600x600_100KB.jpg)

room view
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: Alexander1917 on August 07, 2012, 01:31:22 PM: (http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w245/alexander1917/140_6128_600x600_100KB.jpg)

balcony view over front door

(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w245/alexander1917/140_6126_600x600_100KB.jpg)

view over the sea
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: Brassov on August 09, 2012, 05:32:16 AM: Thanks for these photographs. The house looks very depressing and gloomy though. Who lives there today ?
The gardens are still beautiful, but the house is sad and dark.
Title: Re: Other Romanov Crimean estates
Post by: Alexander1917 on April 22, 2013, 08:04:01 PM: I took the pics without flash (which was not allowed) on a very sunny day.
the room whas occupierd then by a ballerina.
Harax is part of the sanatorium "Dnepro" and is normally cloesed for tourist visitors, but with good luck and (an open wallet) I could enter the house. and I never thought to see the Empress's room. the funiture is from sovjet time.
of course you can rent a room there (for a very lot of money)

Harax is no. 5 at the map

http://crimea.nezabarom.ua/gaspra/dnepr/