Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => Tsarevich Alexei Nicholaievich => Topic started by: TsarAlexeiII on August 06, 2011, 09:48:43 PM

Title: Questions about Alexei (small details)
Post by: TsarAlexeiII on August 06, 2011, 09:48:43 PM
I need help with these small details:

1. Was Alexei born in the Peterhof or Winter Palace?

2. What ethnicities did his heritage consist of? I know he was of Russian, Danish, German, and English lineage, and was in one way or another related to all of the ruling families of Europe. Does anybody else know of his immediate heritage? His maternal grandfather was german, maternal grandmother German and English, paternal grandfather Russian, and paternal grandmother Danish.
Title: Re: Questions about Alexei (small details)
Post by: Sarushka on August 07, 2011, 12:04:54 AM
Peterhof
Title: Re: Questions about Alexei (small details)
Post by: Hector on August 07, 2011, 03:02:12 PM
Alexei's most recent direct-line ancestor who was a King just off the top of my head.

RUSSIA: Father Nicholas II
ENGLAND: Great-grandmother Victoria
DENMARK: Great-grandfather Christian IX
PRUSSIA: Great-great-great Frederick William III
SWEDEN: Great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great Charles XI
HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE: Great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandfather Ferdinand I
PORTUGAL: Great-great-great-great-great--great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandfather Edward I
Title: Re: Questions about Alexei (small details)
Post by: Talya on August 07, 2011, 03:06:40 PM
OFF THE TOP OF YOUR HEAD?! I bow down to thee!
Title: Re: Questions about Alexei (small details)
Post by: LauraO on August 07, 2011, 03:27:41 PM
OFF THE TOP OF YOUR HEAD?! I bow down to thee!

LOl i am totally in agreement!
i assume that all the I children were born at peterhof (apart from olga) because they were summer birthdays? or am i wrong is there a different reason?
was he right or left handed?
Title: Re: Questions about Alexei (small details)
Post by: Sunny on August 07, 2011, 03:36:35 PM
Quite sure he was right handed.
All the children were completely right handed; only maria was left handed when she drawed; she was right hand to write.
I wonder if she was corrected?
I mean: my mum is left handed, but when she was a little girl being left handed was believed to be "evil's hand" so she was corrected by force when she was at primary school (they tied her left hand behind her back and compelled her to write with her right hand, that is horrible). Now she writes only with her right hand, but she does ANYTHING else with her left hand.
Wonder if it was the same for Maria or if she was simply ambidextrous as my husband.
Title: Re: Questions about Alexei (small details)
Post by: LauraO on August 07, 2011, 04:13:03 PM
Quite sure he was right handed.
All the children were completely right handed; only maria was left handed when she drawed; she was right hand to write.
I wonder if she was corrected?
I mean: my mum is left handed, but when she was a little girl being left handed was believed to be "evil's hand" so she was corrected by force when she was at primary school (they tied her left hand behind her back and compelled her to write with her right hand, that is horrible). Now she writes only with her right hand, but she does ANYTHING else with her left hand.
Wonder if it was the same for Maria or if she was simply ambidextrous as my husband.

yeh wasn't george vi naturally left handed and was forced to use his right hand, something common in stutterers? a teacher at my school stutters and i noticed she was left handed and asked her  and she said when she was a kid a teacher tried to force her to write with her right hand. i expected he would be. does anyone truly know either way? surely if the tsarevich had been left handed a tutour would have said something in memoirs or something?
Title: Re: Questions about Alexei (small details)
Post by: historyfan on August 07, 2011, 08:33:05 PM
I don't know.... Good question! *checks through as many memoirs as she can find* I haven't found anything.

I will check as soon as I can, but if I remember correctly, Olga Alexandrovna states something to this effect in "25 Chapters".  I remember her mentioning her son, Tikhon, drew with his left hand, and the context was that someone else did also.  It wasn't herself, so perhaps she was talking about GD Maria.  I will doublecheck, though.
Title: Re: Questions about Alexei (small details)
Post by: Kalafrana on August 08, 2011, 03:24:53 AM
Alexei's ancestry was mostly German. There is a tale that a learned professor calculated in about 1910 that nicholas was only 1/128 Russian (Peter the Great was 100% Russian, but all his descendants had married foreigners, mostly Germans). That makes Alexai 1/256 Russian.

Once, for fun, I tried doing a similar calculation with George V, starting from the premise that Edward IV was 100% British (though he wasn't). Somewhere in the fractions of 10,000 I gave up. (Thanks to the Queen Mother, Elizabeth II is by far the most British monarch since Queen Anne.).

Ann
Title: Re: Questions about Alexei (small details)
Post by: LauraO on August 08, 2011, 03:28:00 AM
ha lol, yeh didn't the bowes-lyon family believe themselves more blue blooded and superior to the royals because they thought that they were (excuse the harry potter reference ;) ) pure bloods?
Title: Re: Questions about Alexei (small details)
Post by: historyfan on August 08, 2011, 07:36:15 AM
I don't know.... Good question! *checks through as many memoirs as she can find* I haven't found anything.

I will check as soon as I can, but if I remember correctly, Olga Alexandrovna states something to this effect in "25 Chapters".  I remember her mentioning her son, Tikhon, drew with his left hand, and the context was that someone else did also.  It wasn't herself, so perhaps she was talking about GD Maria.  I will doublecheck, though.

I was wrong - it was GD Michael who drew with his left hand.  On pg 20 of "25 Chapters" she says:
"My youngest brother Misha also liked drawing and always did so with his left hand.  Funnily enough, my eldest boy, Tihon, draws with his left hand too."
Title: Re: Questions about Alexei (small details)
Post by: Talya on August 08, 2011, 01:04:21 PM
Any mention of Maria doing the same? And is there a source thatconfims Alexei was right handed?
Title: Re: Questions about Alexei (small details)
Post by: TsarAlexeiII on August 08, 2011, 03:21:38 PM
Alexei's ancestry was mostly German. There is a tale that a learned professor calculated in about 1910 that nicholas was only 1/128 Russian (Peter the Great was 100% Russian, but all his descendants had married foreigners, mostly Germans). That makes Alexai 1/256 Russian.

Once, for fun, I tried doing a similar calculation with George V, starting from the premise that Edward IV was 100% British (though he wasn't). Somewhere in the fractions of 10,000 I gave up. (Thanks to the Queen Mother, Elizabeth II is by far the most British monarch since Queen Anne.).

Ann

Thank you for the information. Is there a source for the professor's calculation?
Title: Re: Questions about Alexei (small details)
Post by: Talya on August 08, 2011, 03:24:21 PM
Nicholas and Alexandra by Massie does state it somewhere....
Title: Re: Questions about Alexei (small details)
Post by: Sarushka on August 08, 2011, 08:01:06 PM
Any mention of Maria doing the same? And is there a source thatconfims Alexei was right handed?

Maria's habit of sketching left-handed is mentioned in at least one of the courtiers' memoirs. Buxhoeveden for sure, and possibly also Gilliard.
Title: Re: Questions about Alexei (small details)
Post by: blessOTMA on August 08, 2011, 08:59:52 PM
since she is holding  the drawing  board with her right hand, it is likely Marie is sketching with her left
(http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Botkin/th_Maria-03.jpg) (http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Botkin/Maria-03.jpg)
Title: Re: Questions about Alexei (small details)
Post by: Talya on August 08, 2011, 11:26:18 PM
I always called that picture the death stare, until a couple of months ago when I figured out she was drawing! :D u just couldn't remember who said that, thanks Sarushka :)

Question: does anyone have a compiled list of all of alexei's hemophilia attacks?
Title: Re: Questions about Alexei (small details)
Post by: LauraO on August 09, 2011, 06:20:29 AM
ahah!!! THEY WERE MUDBLOODS!!! LOL!!
I'm sorry but it was tooo funny!

lol i'm sure that was pretty much they're opinions of the royals summed up in one word, according to william shawcross anyway. tbh though the bowes-lyon family were strong english blood,
wheras most of the royals, as said ,were just a mad mix and very rarely strongly dynastically (is that a word?) linked to their country of origin.
Title: Re: Questions about Alexei (small details)
Post by: Sarushka on August 09, 2011, 08:53:12 AM
Question: does anyone have a compiled list of all of alexei's hemophilia attacks?

I don't know of one.

It would depend a lot on how you define "attack." In Aleksei's 1916 diary I was surprised to find many small bouts of hemophilia when he's unable to write because of a sore arm/hand, or confined to bed because of his legs. These incidents weren't life-threatening and only lasted a few days. We're so accustomed to hearing about the handful of major attacks -- Spala, for example, or his December 1915 nosebleed at Stavka -- that I don't think we have a full appreciation for the daily inconveniences that Aleksei endured.

To get a truly accurate list I suspect you'd need full access to the IF's diaries.
Title: Re: Questions about Alexei (small details)
Post by: LauraO on August 09, 2011, 10:37:26 AM
apart from spala and stavka what other major attacks were there? of course there were many minor injuries endured, but any to the extent of those two?
also if alexei had of died at spala, how would he have been brought back to russia, when, and where would he have been taken?
i always assumed by train and to the winter palace...
Title: Re: Questions about Alexei (small details)
Post by: Talya on August 09, 2011, 12:45:54 PM
I was surprised too Sarushka! I was flipping through Le Tsarevitch, and reading a few passages of the diary here and there, and I was amazed! Could it have been due to something other than a hemophilia attack, like just sore muscles? (when me and my dad started to play ping pong, our muscles were soo sore!)
Title: Re: Questions about Alexei (small details)
Post by: blessOTMA on August 09, 2011, 08:45:45 PM
In this  photo of AN in a swim suit , one can see many bruises on his legs.... they look pretty beat up and this is when he was well! Seems there were  many " minor " events  that were just a part of his life . Any seepage of blood would cause a bruise and soreness .  The miracle of  Alexei  was  his amazing good spirits and love of life when well . http://s004.radikal.ru/i208/1107/6d/cdd39edd14a8.png
Title: Re: Questions about Alexei (small details)
Post by: nena on August 11, 2011, 11:43:14 AM
In 1911, Alexei suffered from pains in his kidneys. There was attack in Poland's Bialowieza in Sept of 1912.  Then remember severe bleeding while he was baby -- in 1908 his heamophila diagnosys was done by the surgeons I am saying from my sources .
Title: Re: Questions about Alexei (small details)
Post by: Talya on August 11, 2011, 02:36:42 PM
Bialoweiza; Is that Spala?
Title: Re: Questions about Alexei (small details)
Post by: Sunny on August 11, 2011, 02:50:40 PM
Bialoweiza; Is that Spala?

Yep. The tsars had more than one estate in Poland. Bialoweiza was one - here Alexej began to be ill after an accident. Then they moved to Spala, not far, because doctors thought it would be better for Alexej to recover. But once in Spala Alix & Anja V took Alexej on a walk in a cart, he accidentally hit his knee and he had got worse - Spala crisis.

I've gone by memory, so... Nena, am i right? If i'm not please correct me! Thanks!
Title: Re: Questions about Alexei (small details)
Post by: Talya on August 11, 2011, 03:00:10 PM
I think I remember reading a letter like that; they had the whole road flattened down afterwards.
Title: Re: Questions about Alexei (small details)
Post by: Sunny on August 11, 2011, 03:17:23 PM
I think I remember reading a letter like that; they had the whole road flattened down afterwards.

Yep! But since i've never been so deep interested in Alexej as i'm in OTMA, i'm not keen on details, so i can be wrong - and it would be a real sorrow for me, delivering wrong infos becausew of my bad memory! So when i'm not sure i always ask to be corrected from members who are better than me in a certain subject (and Nena is certainly better than me for those things regarding Alexej!)
Title: Re: Questions about Alexei (small details)
Post by: nena on August 11, 2011, 04:21:29 PM
As far as I have understood, Bialowieza and Spala are two different places - the IF moved to Spala later in October of 1912, after Aleksei had suffered the kick by the boat.
Title: Re: Questions about Alexei (small details)
Post by: Sunny on August 12, 2011, 12:49:05 AM
Yes, i don't know how far they are, but they are both in Poland, i think; so i remember well about 2 accidents.