Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => Maria Nicholaievna => Topic started by: MademoiselleAndrea on September 19, 2012, 05:11:47 PM

Title: Maria or Anastasia's dress?
Post by: MademoiselleAndrea on September 19, 2012, 05:11:47 PM
I know there was a topic somewhere about clothing that OTMA wore that still is around in museums but I can't seem to find it anywhere. Moderators, if you could please attach this post to one of those topics, that would be great, thanks!
Anyways, I found this and I thought it was interesting, if a little fishy.
http://omgthatdress.tumblr.com/post/31853891933/infants-dress-1900-the-metropolitan-museum-of
A gorgeous dress, whether worn by one of the Little Pair or not.
This is the Met page on it:
http://www.metmuseum.org/Collections/search-the-collections/80096133?rpp=20&pg=66&ao=on&ft=*&deptids=62&when=A.D.+1900-present&what=Costume&pos=1308
The accession records suggest that this may have been worn by a baby of a Russian Czar, which would be appropriate as the dress is quite grandiose.
Definitely no confirmation there. Is it more likely to have been the dress of a noble baby?
Title: Re: Maria or Anastasia's dress?
Post by: EmmyLee on September 19, 2012, 07:02:03 PM
Interesting. I've always wondered why infant dresses were so long. To me, it would be a pain to have to carry around all of that material with a little baby. Plus, I don't imagine their diapers being very absorbent. I suppose that a dress like this would be more for a special occasion like a blessing or baptism than for day-to-day wear, though.
Title: Re: Maria or Anastasia's dress?
Post by: GrandDuchessIsabelle on September 20, 2012, 11:09:06 AM
The fact that it is dated 1900 exactly makes me think that if it did belong to a Romanov baby it would be Anastasia and as it is French (and we all know of the Imperial love of French culture) it is highly likely that the Imperial children had a dress similar, if not this exact one. The Met says it was a gift from a Mrs Embry Hartman? Do we know anything about her, a connection to the family etc.?
Title: Re: Maria or Anastasia's dress?
Post by: edubs31 on September 20, 2012, 12:59:31 PM
In the strictest sense of the word "infant" would be used to identify a child under the age of 12-months, yes?

Depending on when the IF would have received this dress it's entirely possible Marie would have grown out of it by then. Lets assume the dress was made in early-1900 and delivered for usage to the IF by that spring at the earliest. Marie would have already been 9-11 months old. It seems more likely that it would have been used for Anastasia.

I'm no expert in the matter but it seems to me that clothing for young children wasn't nearly as gender specific at that time as it is now. Look no further than to a few pictures of Alexei (and Nicholas before him) in a small dress as infant/toddlers. In that sense they could have purchased the dress while Alexandra was pregnant (between the fall of 1900 and spring of '01) and intended it to be worn by either a boy or girl.

That said this seems like it would have been obtained by/for the IF to be worn by a baby girl, no? If it was made in 1900 it makes more sense to me that it would have been intended for the newborn Anastasia (June, 1901).

Title: Re: Maria or Anastasia's dress?
Post by: Jen_94 on September 21, 2012, 04:45:21 PM
I agree. If the dress was made in the year 1900, then I would say definitely Anastasia's dress more likey. The infant dress is so long, but beautiful!
Title: Re: Maria or Anastasia's dress?
Post by: blessOTMA on September 22, 2012, 11:29:15 AM
Beautiful dress! I would have said it was made in the 1880's more than 1900 ...but then royalty is often ahead or behind the times in fashion
Title: Re: Maria or Anastasia's dress?
Post by: MademoiselleAndrea on September 23, 2012, 03:57:41 PM
You have all made very good points! It does seem like a special occasion dress - especially considering the relatively simple bringing up the imperial children had - not that they didn't have fancy clothes, which they most certainly did, beautiful clothes, but their childhood seemed much less extravagant than it could have been considering the wealth and importance of Imperial Russia.
The sleeves are rather leg-o-mutton, indicating 1890s style, but that funny front ruffle at the edge of the yoke is more characteristic to the early 1900s, I think.
It would be interesting to try and find info on Mrs. Embry Hartman. How would she have come upon such a treasure?
Title: Re: Maria or Anastasia's dress?
Post by: GrandDuchessIsabelle on September 25, 2012, 12:51:35 PM
Trawling google, I found this:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1955&dat=19520920&id=N5MtAAAAIBAJ&sjid=y5wFAAAAIBAJ&pg=6340,708658
A pssibility? 'Embry' sounds more like a surname than a first name and it's not exactly a common combination of names. Also, the dates would match but I can't quite figure out how she'd come into contact with an item worn by an Imperial child (poss.), even if she had a high place in British society. Did the Bolsheviks put any of the IF's clothing on the black European market?
Title: Re: Maria or Anastasia's dress?
Post by: rosieposie on March 23, 2013, 06:17:36 AM
Did the Bolsheviks put any of the IF's clothing on the black European market?

I know this is an old post.  Just wanted to answer GDIsabelle's question, from what I have read what the IF in regards to clothing they didn't pack (can't recall didn't the IF get short notice they were leaving the AP maybe a day's notice if anyone can correct me  here?) was left behind at AP. 

The Bolsheviks did keep clothing of the IF such as formal clothing and articles of jewellery and accessories,  there is a thread and a video of a news article of Alexandra's clothing and accessories (fans, gloves, shoes, umbrellas etc) being exhibited.  There is even uniforms of Nicholas and Alexei on display at the AP.   Even the formal dresses worn by OTMA with their kokoshinks are on display.

From what I have read everyday clothing of NAOTMAA that was left behind were given to charity as by the time the war was over their clothing was seen as outdated. 

It is amazing that the Bolsheviks kept anything that was Tsarist related.  They did inventory of any items of the IF and past IFs that was left behind.

As for the clothes left behind after the massacre they were found at various guards homes.  Even some of the guards gave their sweethearts/wives OTMA's clothing which also included their corsets and undergarments.


Title: Re: Maria or Anastasia's dress?
Post by: Sarushka on March 23, 2013, 07:15:00 AM
  Even some of the guards gave their sweethearts/wives OTMA's clothing which also included their corsets and undergarments.

If I've read that before, I'd forgotten it. Where did you find that info?
Title: Re: Maria or Anastasia's dress?
Post by: rosieposie on March 24, 2013, 05:40:56 PM
I think I read it in the Fall of the Romanovs.   It was many years ago since I read it.
Title: Re: Maria or Anastasia's dress?
Post by: Padawan Ryan on June 13, 2014, 10:04:46 AM
I wonder if perhaps she's wearing that dress here in this picture;

(http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc488/hummingbird-heartbeat/th_5_zpsa23b297d.jpg) (http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc488/hummingbird-heartbeat/5_zpsa23b297d.jpg)



It's just speculation of course, but you can see the long dress falling down Alexandra's lap from the infant Anastasia. You can also see a bit of ruffling at the bottom, and at the top, where it correlates to the picture of the dress in the links. While we cannot be certain, of course, I saw the dress in this thread and thought it looked familiar from one of Anastasia's baby photos. It also appears to be a somewhat formal picture of the family with their newest addition at the time, so it would make sense that she'd be dressed in such a 'fancy' looking infant dress for the picture.
Title: Re: Maria or Anastasia's dress?
Post by: Ortino on June 14, 2014, 07:30:16 PM
I wonder if perhaps she's wearing that dress here in this picture;

(http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc488/hummingbird-heartbeat/th_5_zpsa23b297d.jpg) (http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc488/hummingbird-heartbeat/5_zpsa23b297d.jpg)



It's just speculation of course, but you can see the long dress falling down Alexandra's lap from the infant Anastasia. You can also see a bit of ruffling at the bottom, and at the top, where it correlates to the picture of the dress in the links. While we cannot be certain, of course, I saw the dress in this thread and thought it looked familiar from one of Anastasia's baby photos. It also appears to be a somewhat formal picture of the family with their newest addition at the time, so it would make sense that she'd be dressed in such a 'fancy' looking infant dress for the picture.


Good eye, Padawan Brittany, I think you may be right! If you look at the flowers along the hem, they look very, very similar to those seen on Anastasia's dress in the photo. Also, Olga, Tatiana, and Marie's dresses have bows on the shoulders, suggesting that the dress may have been created to correspond with those. You can see the details better in this version of the photo:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c8/Imperial_Family_of_Russia_1901.jpg