Start 'er up, griffh!
An investigation of the timing, scope, and extent of the Empress’s war relief activities will reveal a long forgotten fact: Alexandra had achieved broad popularity in war relief circles by the Spring of 1915. Though this article does not discuss in full the Empress’s political views or her relationship with Rasputin, it does review other factors that eroded Alexandra’s hard won popularity and caused it to disappear completely by the time she was placed under house arrest on March 8, 1917.
QuoteAn investigation of the timing, scope, and extent of the Empress’s war relief activities will reveal a long forgotten fact: Alexandra had achieved broad popularity in war relief circles by the Spring of 1915. Though this article does not discuss in full the Empress’s political views or her relationship with Rasputin, it does review other factors that eroded Alexandra’s hard won popularity and caused it to disappear completely by the time she was placed under house arrest on March 8, 1917.
I'll be interested in hearing more about this. I'm guessing those war relief circles were rather small, otherwise it seems odd that whatever popularity she might have achieved with the broader masses would have eroded so quickly and so completely.
Perhaps your book addresses this question, but what level of PR did the Empress attach to the nursing duties of herself and her daughters. We've seen a number photos, many of which seem to have been designed for public consumption, but we seem to see less of Alexandra, with Olga & Tatiana playing the starring role. Was this by design or was it something of an oversight? If the latter, while I admire her humble diligence in getting the job done each day and avoiding excess fanfare, it would have been wise for her to have made a bigger deal (in terms of selling herself to the people...something she always struggled to accomplish) of her nursing.
Lastly does your research uncover anything new about Olga & Tatiana's experience with nursing and their relationship with their mother in this regard?
Thank you edubs31 for those great questions. If I can start with your last question, first I think you will find a ton of new, never before published research on Olga and Tatiana's war relief work in Helen Rappaport's masterful study on the Empress's daughters, Four Sisters (British title) March 2014 (the American publication is coming out in a few days).
Of the two girls, Tatiana appears to have inherited her grandmother, Princess Alice's amazing organizational skills which were also so apparent in the Empress and her sister Ellla. The description of Princess Alice's abilities in Florence Nightingale's letters (Nightingale mentored Princess Alice's development of her humanitarian institutes) are almost identical to descriptions of both Alix and Ella's abilities. I think that ultimately all three generations owe a great deal to the Prince Consort, Albert who really was so dedicated to improving the well-being of Britain's people.
Such a wonderful first question that involves so much new research that I don't know quite how to answer it without giving away my upcoming June 2014 RDQ article.
But I can say that the Empress's personal ministry or nursing, which had the greatest importance to her as a Christian follower of her Master, and which dominates her correspondence, actually represented the smallest part of her war relief work. Until one learns of the scope of her war relief agencies and their continual development during the war, one has a very lopsided sense of her war work.
Of course this false view was encouraged by her critics such as her husband's young cousin Maria Palvovna the younger and others.
However, the contemporary press and periodicals both in Russia and Allied and Neutral countries were continually reporting on the broader work of the Empress. In fact by 1916, as accusations of treason continued to erode her standing in Russia causing coverage of her work to fall off, the Allied and Neutral press continued to follow her accomplishments.
I will try and answer everything I can at this time. Hopefully as the articles continue to be published I will be able to answer questions more fully.
I hope that is helpful...and thanks again for such great questions....
Griff, Congratulations on your first article in RDQ!
I'm looking forward to reading Part II and am sure that the complete series of your articles will be most informative. It's most certainly a subject I've wanted to read more about in detail for years.
For my part, just to say, it is a thrill for me to see how your book of correspondence between Alix and her brother and sister-in-law is becoming a standard source for Romanov scholars: Joe Fuhrmann's Rasputin: The Untold Story (2013); Helen Rappaport's Four Sisters (2014), to mention a few...I haven't finished reading my copy of Helen Rappaport's Four Sisters yet - due to overtime - but have enjoyed it so far and noticed the references to my book. It's great to know that it has been a useful source, and so will your book be, once it's published.
I have used your book in my first article as well as almost every article I have written...and of course in my book!!!Thank you very much! :)
For my part, just to say, it is a thrill for me to see how your book of correspondence between Alix and her brother and sister-in-law is becoming a standard source for Romanov scholars: Joe Fuhrmann's Rasputin: The Untold Story (2013); Helen Rappaport's Four Sisters (2014), to mention a few...I haven't finished reading my copy of Helen Rappaport's Four Sisters yet - due to overtime - but have enjoyed it so far and noticed the references to my book. It's great to know that it has been a useful source, and so will your book be, once it's published.I have used your book in my first article as well as almost every article I have written...and of course in my book!!!Thank you very much! :)
I also felt it was vitally important to expose Anna's recent fall from favor after her outrageous behavior in the Crimea in the Spring of 1914, behavior that was so offensive that Olga N. took Anna to task, demanding an explanation of the "part she was playing." The unrepentant Anna, realizing her fall from grace was complete, reacted by spreading slanderous stories about Alix and Niki and tried to manipulate some of the officers of the Imperial yacht to side with her. This lead both Olga N. and her sister Tatiana to encourage their mother to distance herself from Anna for good. And though we have no indication in Anna's autobiographies, she had remained persona non grata in July 1914 when Germany declared war on Russia.I remember that Nicholas II, according to Anna, seemed to enjoy her company a lot "in the early part of 1914", and so "the Empress became mortally jealous". Are you talking about that incident?
And though we have no indication in Anna's autobiographies, she had remained persona non grata in July 1914 when Germany declared war on Russia.I didn't know that. I thought Alix and her were reconciled at this time. That's very interesting, thank you very much for the info.
Too bad your articles aren't published in France! So I am not able to read them!
I remember that Nicholas II, according to Anna, seemed to enjoy her company a lot "in the early part of 1914", and so "the Empress became mortally jealous". Are you talking about that incident?
I too am wondering what was Anna Vyrubova's 'outrageous behaviour' in the Crimea. It must have been pretty bad if Olga took her to task about it!
Ann
I am sorry too wakas! But you can order the March 2014 Royalty Digest Quarterly which has my first article from the a bookstore in the Hague. http://www.hoogstraten.nl/theshop/index.phpThank you for the link, I will certainly buy it.
Just to say, Gerard Gorokhoff and Andrei Korliakov's Les Corps Expenditionnarie Russe: 1916-1918 mention, for the first time included information about Alix's ambulance corps in France, which might be of interest to you if you do not already knowNo, I didn't know.That's new to me. Did she had a similar corps in Germany (for the war prisoners)? I know some Russian nurses went to Germany, and if I'm correct, Alix received German nurses (or at least had to but didn't want to).
Did she had a similar corps in Germany (for the war prisoners)? I know some Russian nurses went to Germany, and if I'm correct, Alix received German nurses (or at least had to but didn't want to).
I'm surprised Alix accepted to make peace with Anna after what happened, even if it was a false peace. About OTMA, they seem to have completely forgiven her, because as you said, they went regularly to Anna's and had a lot of fun there. So I wonder what Anna did to make amends of her actions.
Thanks Griffh for all your explanations. I'm looking forward to read more about Alix's war relief.
'They included Anna undressing at the window of her Livadia suite, which looked out to officers on duty at one of the sentry posts.'
Hm, as a point of military usage, you do not have officers 'on duty at sentry posts'. Sentries are usually Privates, as being a sentry is an 'unskilled' role and anyone more senior will be given different duties. I don't know about the Russian Army in 1914, but in the British forces one of the duties of the Orderly Officer (a fairly junior officer given a particular set of responsibilities for 24 hours at a time - roughly the officer's equivalent of being a sentry!) is going round the sentry posts (along with things like visiting the armoury to check that all weapons are there, and going to the cookhouse at mealtimes). So Anna Vyrubova might have been spotted undressing by Lieutenant X as he was going round the sentry posts, but what would be much more scandalous was t hat she would be in view of Private Y while at his post (and no doubt the subject of much ribald comment among the soldiers!).
Ann
Lol, the masochistic flasher Anna Alexandrovna would have been a perfect match for brutal King Willem III of the Netherlands, who once flashed a whole lake cruiser from his hotel window in Genenva, didn't he. Interestingly his mother was Russian.......
Griffh, thanks to your link, I've just bought the March 2014 Royalty Digest Quarterly. Can't wait to read your article!
Poor Ann must have been very ugly if the sentries really were anguished!
I remember a tale told by one of my military friends. The unit was on exercised, and he and various others were sleeping in an orchard. At a certain time every night apples used to fall on his head. Finally, he got out of his shelter and discovered two soldiers up the nearest tree with image intensifiers, watching a young lady undressing across the road through her curtains.
Ann
Thank you.
I've spent a lot of time among soldiers.
i have a lovely vision of the men at the sentry post happily taking turns to gawp at Anna V as she undresses, with lots of comments about her underwear and the size of her....... Along comes the Orderly Officer, who sees what is happening. The officers decide that something must be done to stop this, and cook up the unlikely tale of the anguish caused to the sentries. Senior officer goes to the palace, trying hard to keep a straight face....
In fact, we could write a nice scene for the new film, designed to show Anna as a source of embarrassment and Alexandra failing to take the hint.
Ann
Note that I have done this largely British Army fashion, where experienced Sergeants are expected to give advice to young officers.
Ann
I've read your article,Griffh, and found it very interesting and very well written. One of the things I like a lot about it is the way you portrayed Alix. You seem to have a good opinion of her, so it makes your article even more pleasant to read. As she is so often caricatured and badly seen, it's good to read someone who has a nice word to say on her.
When will your other articles be available? I'm looking forward to read them.
I've just learned that you're about to publish a book. Congratulations! When it'll come out, I'll certainly be one of the first to buy it.
One of the punishments of the Empress's wartime correspondence is that the first wartime letter does not begin until Sept. 1914, when she was starting her Red Cross Nursing course which consisted of classroom and nursing floor instruction; 60 days (July 19 - Sept 19, 1914) after the war began; additionally no publication of Alexandra's letters contain any reference to the work she had accomplished during the two month period.
Griff, I remember references to this period in Princess Gedroits' memoir/letters. Alexandra and daughters attended classes in her Sisters of Mercy building on Leontievskaya Street - amazing when I entered the chapel there as it had survived the war - but also P. Gedroits visited AP for some classes.
Joanna
Taking Janet Ashton's suggestion, I have decided to start a thread on the Empress's war relief work.
Having just published the first of my articles in Royalty Digest Quarterly, I thought this thread could also serve as a place where individuals could share their views of the articles.
Having just returned from England I am a still catching up a bit but all the same I wanted to establish the thread.
PS:
Here's a somewhat better copy:
http://w3.ivanovo.ac.ru/alumni/olegria/nation2/1914Rossija_voinstvu.htm
PS: Here's a somewhat better copy: http://w3.ivanovo.ac.ru/alumni/olegria/nation2/1914Rossija_voinstvu.htmThank you! :)
Thanks again wakas for you kind remarks.
The second article will appear in the June 2914 Royalty Digest Quarterly....Thank you for the info, you can be sure that I'll buy it, as the topic interests me a lot.
QuoteThanks again wakas for you kind remarks.
You're welcome, Griffh, I only said what I thought:) : your article is very good!QuoteThe second article will appear in the June 2914 Royalty Digest Quarterly....Thank you for the info, you can be sure that I'll buy it, as the topic interests me a lot.
Can you keep us informed for your book? I can't wait for it to come out.
Thank you for the correct name of the artist.
Comparing the above pictures of the "Russia to her warriors" card, I think you may be right about the reprints.
Dear Griffh,
Perhaps you have already seen this charming postcard, but just in case you haven’t, I wanted to bring it to your attention, since it concerns Empress Alexandra’s war-time relief work.
http://www.filokartist.net/forum/download.php?id=7715
As you can see, Empress Alexandra is depicted dressed in the robes she wore for the famous costume ball in 1903. The inscription in Russian reads: “Russia — to her warriors.”
Behind the Empress are seen Russian men, women and children bringing their offerings for the troops at the front, which they are depositing in the treasure chest inscribed: “Storehouse [sklad] of Tsaritsa Alexandra Feodorvna”.
And Empress Alexandra is seen distributing those offerings with her right hand to the expectant and grateful soldiers.
The above photograph was found here:
http://www.filokartist.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4962
Unfortunately, the quality of that particular printing is rather poor. A much clearer version of that same postcard is found in the Romanov Collection of the Beinecke Library at Yale University.
It’s actually the obverse of the postcard which appears on p. 325 of Lili Dehn’s “The Real Tsaritsa”. Her Majesty wrote the postcard to Lili while the latter was in Japan with her husband in March 1916. During their absence, the Empress was helping to look after their son, Alexander (aka: “Titi”), who was also the Empress’ godson. The Empress happened to write that postcard to Lili in English.
I. N.
Wakas I will certainly let you know when my book comes out!
It should be about 6 months after my last article is published in RDQ (Issue #1 March 2015).I guess I just have to wait (even if it's hard) until that...
Dear Father Nicholas just to say when I went online to find Lili Dehn's The Real Tsaritsa, I found a first edition for a very reasonable price and could hardly believe it, as there were only paperback re-prints and this one first edition available.
I wanted so much to see the reverse side of the postcard on p. 325 and now the book is flying on its way to me.
I just had to thank you for your post and the blessing of finding a first edition....
Well just to day I received the proof of my second article that is going to be published this month in Royalty Digest Quarterly and it is always so exciting seeing it formatted for the magazine with all the photographs. It is always hard to know which photos have high enough resolution for publication...and this article was no exception, but after a few re-scans, everything worked out and just to say some of the images, such as the Empress's Winter Palace sklad, have not been published before in the West.
I don't know why that means so much to me but it does. The other thing is that Charlotte was able to edit down my 77 footnotes to some thing more manageable for a magazine article...Bless her, Bless her.
So as soon as it is available I will be able to share some of the contents...
Just one more thing, there are some great documentaries in Europe on WWI which are amazing!!!
As well the US is repeating a documentary on both WWI and WWII which is really remarkable...
I had never fully realized the destruction to human life that occurred in the thirty-two years between 1914 and 1946: one hundred million people lost their lives.
And these statistics do not loss of life due to the Influenza pandemic of 1917-1919;
the Russian famine of 1918-1922;
Lenin's Red Terror and Civil War 1919-1921;
Stalin's Red Terror of the 1930's;
or the Holocaust 1940-1945.
It makes me wonder if the plethora of futuristic world destruction movies are really about the 21 century coming to grips with the massive destruction of human life wrought in the first half of the twentieth century...just as the horror movies of the 1930's were mankind's attempt to come to grips with WWI's battlefield carnage....
I'll order it up! Congrats on your hard work and looking forward to your insights. Regarding the Alix vs Dagmar "dispute" I'm fascinated to know how strong their differences regarding patronage could possibly be. If we include Alexandra's dedication to her nursing and war relief, I can only imagine that such significance differences between her and her mother-in-law paint MF in a fairly bad light (as if to say, there's no way she would ever gotten her hands as dirty with hard work).
That's really beautiful. Thanks for sharing!
Wow, this is stunning!
#44 the uniforms of the Russian soldiers look WW I to me all Khaki that was not the case in the Russo-Japanese war. This in in the picture of Alexandra in the 1903 ball gown passing out gifts to the troops.
31-34 LOL Ann, Of course it should be pointed out probably some soldiers would commented that if Anna V went swimming in black bathing suit she would be mistaken for a whale joke. Also note the Russian army was a conscript army in which few men re-enlisted so each Russian Infantry company had only 2 NCOs in it. The Red and Soviet armies had the same problem. I would say they still have that problem today.
Some books of Central Powers POWs in Russia during WW I:
POWs and the Great War Captivity on the Eastern Front Alan Rachaminov
Among the Prisoners of War in Russia and Siberia Elsa Brandstorm
Black Bread and Barbed Wire is accounts of British POWs in Germany and Turkey during WW I with a few mentions of the Russians.
There was little or no critizism of Alexandra or Rasputin during the first year of the war according to M Nelpa in "The Murder of Grigory Rasputin". This is do to the political truce that was on see dtic.mil "On Effectiveness of Military Institutions Volume 1 WW I" which is online. After Nicholas took command of the army the Duma politicians started a major PR campaign against him and Alexandra and Rasputin. Meanwhile Maria Fed and maria P started their gossip campaigns against Alexandra and Rasputin. One should also point out from start of the war the Bolsheviks, the Mensheviks and the SRs expanded their anti-government and anti-war PR campaigns as well. See the book "The Socialist Revolutionaries and the Russian anti-war movement 1914-1917" Michael Melacon, "The Carpathian Disaster" Geoffery Jukes and "The Russian Revolution G Pipes
Adding to Alexandra problems was the WW I spy mania where she was suspected of being a German spy
I hope this is of some use or interest.
Alexandra really needed someone to do her some PR work for her.
Alexandra really needed someone to do her some PR work for her.
You would have thought Purishkevich who was a devoted monarchist and great orator would have said something nice about Alexandra.
If the hospital train was bombed do you know the date and location? If you do I may be able to track down who did it. It may have been a Zeppelin. They did fly bombing missions during this time period. You mention 40 armed german aircraft> The only armament the planes had back then were rifles and pistols no machine guns. As for bombs they could only carry a few small ones. I am not sure whether in the East German aircraft flew any bombing missions in August 1914. They did fly numerous reconassiance missions. Which were not as effective as they were made out at the time. The Germans and Austrians could read the Russians radio traffic some of which wasn't encoded. As a way of hiding this fact they credited air reconassiance.
Also note: The germans did not retreat to the Vistula river after the battle of Gumbinnen. The Russian 1st army did advance very much after this battle. So the Germans who could read the Russians radio traffic left a small force behind to screen the Russian 1st army and using their superior rail system were able to concentrate and destroy a good part of the Russian 2nd army at the battle of Tannenberg.
Note I am a member of the league of WW I Aviation historians I will see if I can find out who bombed the train on 16/29 August 1914. It may have been a Zeppelin I have to dig through my notes. Also if you have any other dates and locations of when one of Alexandra's trains were bombed post it here and I will try and find out the unit.
Note German Air service organization FeldFlieger-Abteilung (Field aviation unit/section) 6 aircraft; FFA for short; Festungflieger-Abteilung (fortress aviation unit/section) 4 aircraft FestFA for short
German aviation units in the East August 1914:
8th army FFA 16
I corps FFA 14 Taube
XVIII corps FFA 17 possibly Albatross BI
XX corps FFA 15 Taube
I Resereve corps none
Fest FAs;
Posen 4 Taube
Konigsberg 5
Kuln 6
Lotzen 7
I have read that some of the German aviation units in the east were understrength at the start of the war. They also had a high accident rate as a whole the Germans lost about 40% of their frontline combat strength in August 1914. Add to this a chotic supply and replacement system. Which adds up to they didn't have that many aircraft flying in the East in 1914. I know FestFA 6 took part in the battle of Tannenberg along with all the FFAs. I am not sure about the other FestFAs. Also note the Taube (dove) was a early german aircraft that was very underpowered. The Albatros BI was a more modern plane that had a better performance. As a whole the performance of these air units in the recon role was mixed in the August 1914 period. At Gumbinen a inaccurate report caused a panic in Germen headquarters. At Tannenberg they often proved by spoting the Russian units helped confirm the germans radio intercepts were correct.
Buxhoedven's book "Before the Storm" has a little in it on Alexandra's work during the Russo-Japanese War.
I hope this is of some use. The site "the Great War forum" is a good place to ask questions on WW I era they have a Women's section that has a lot on Nurses and nursing.
Believe it or not I never heard of Royal Quarterly digest before this posting. One day I will get copies of your articles on Alexandra's WW I work. They look interesting.
Difference between my sources and yours mine are books "Winged mars Volume II" and German Airpower in WW I as well as articles in Over the Front magazine written by people who specialized in WW I aviation and really know their stuff. It's like from what you said of your articles on Alexandra's war relief work and what was previously thought.
There were some Russian Imperial Air service units operating in support of the Russian 2nd army during the battle of Tannenberg. I have a OTF article on one that I will dig out and post it when I next get back.
James
All very interesting. As to the mechanics, we need to bear in mind thar the internal combustion engine was then in a fairly early stage of development, and aircraft and vehicles needed constant maintenance.
Ann
Yes Ann the early aircraft engines were mechanically unreliable. Aircrew were often taught how to do minor repairs themselves in case they were forced down with engine trouble.
One should also point out that many WW I era Russian locomotives were old some built in the 1860's and had a limited towing ability. Which is why you had 3 locomotives to move 86 cars on this train and why on the train trip form TS to Siberia 2 trains were needed to carry the IF their entourage, their guards and all their baggage.
The battle of Lake Naroch did not cause the germans to withdraw a single soldier from the Western front. The battle was a disaster for the Russian army from start to finish. Everything that could have gone wrong went wrong. Look it up on Wikipedia. There is also a 1930s Soviet account of the battle in Russian somewhere on the axis history forum. If I can find the site I will post it.
Note on railway cars of the period they usually had metal roofs and could get quite hot in the summer time.
The battle of Lake Naroch did not cause the germans to withdraw a single soldier from the Western front...
In April 1916, Brusilov suggested that Generals Evert, Kuropatkin and himself launch defensive campaigns on all three fronts.
Very interesting posts, Griffh and James . I learnt a lot by reading what you wrote. You two know so many things, it's very interesting to read you both.
So the medical trains were bombed purposely? Why? What benefit was made by the Germans/Austrians by doing that? It's such a cowardly act.
Thank you so much wakas!You're welcome. I'm just speaking the truth.
Wakas, it was an attack on the spirit of the Russian Army as all acts of terrorism are.I see. Thank you for your explanation.
reply 95 Alexandra was the honorary colonel of the 3rd Hussars not Lancers which is the uniform on display. As for Tatania she was the Colonel of the 8th not the 14th lancers this newspaper got it wrong.
I don't read Russian so can't comment directly on the sources you cite. However, it seems to me unlikely that at that time the Germans, still less the Austrians, would deliberately attack a hospital train with Red Cross markings.
As James has already said, bombing in those days was extremely inaccurate (in the case of aircraft the bombs were literally dropped by hand with no kind of sighting system). Also bear in mind that the perspectives of those on board may be mistaken. I did some research some years ago on a WW2 sinking a relation was involved in. The U-boat sank two warships one after the other, the second while stopped to pick up survivors from the first. One torpedo exploded directly beneath a boat which had just benn lowered, and the British papers claimed that the U-boat captain ha fired at the boat deliberately. However, a naval friend who trained as a torpedo officer shortly after told me that if he had aimed at the boat he could not have hit it, as torpedoes had an accuracy of +/- 200 feet at that range.
Ann
I am not rubbishing your sources, merely applying a degree of caution.
It would help if you actually translated your sources for the benefit of the less educated among us.
Less controversially, I find it impressive that the Tsarevich Alexei was operational within a month of the outbreak of war. Was it an 'off-the-shelf' hospital train, or converted from conventional rolling stock after the war began? If the latter, then that was an impressive feat of logistics in such a short time.
Ann
Thank you.
I'm not sure that Prince Cantacuzene actually travelled back on board the Tsarevich Alexei. According to his wife's account, the medical arrangements where he was were makeshift to say the least. After being shot through the liver, he was taken to the nearest medical post on a horse at walking pace, and then went to Petrograd on a supply train which was going back empty. Fortunately, he had a very devoted batman who was able to look after him through all this.
I wonder whether you have gone from Alexandra's mention of visiting Prince C to assuming that he had been a beneficiary of one of her trains.
Ann
Thank you.
I wonder whether you have gone from Alexandra's mention of visiting Prince C to assuming that he had been a beneficiary of one of her trains.
Ann
Blush!
It happens that Bless OTMA lent me her copies of Princess Cantacuzene's books, and it was probably the chapter where her husband was wounded which made the biggest impression on me, hence I remembered the details.
Ann
Griffh sorry to be a pain at times:
#95 The Black Hussar braided tunic is for the 5th Hussars which Alexandra was the honorary Colonel or the 5th HSM Empress Alexandra Fed Aleksandriya Hussars
Also in #95 on the cover of Pearl magazine Alexandra in in the dress uniform of the Life Guards lancers or the HSM Empress Alexandra Fed Life Guards Lancers. Note: Russian Guards regiments did not have numbers just names.
See: marksrussianmilitaryhistory.info for the order of battle information which is 99.99% accurate
As for the Zeppelins not being all that accurate my sources are the following books:
The Zeppelin in Combat
The Air Defense of Britain C. Cole and F Cheeseman
The Zeppelin Fighters
The Zeppelins often did not know where they were, bombed the wrong target ect
If you have the dates and locations of when the hospital trains were bombed please post them and I will try and identify who bombed them.
Also on the battle of Tannenberg Max Hoffman's memoirs "The War of Lost Oppertuneties" is online at allworldwars.com
Some interesting points there.
The Tsarevich was another with a St George Medal of some sort. Was he ever under fire?
James no doubt has the figures, but the officers's order of St George was a relatively rare award - about 5,000. In a British context that would roughly equate to the Distinguished Service Order, which is one below the Victoria Cross. DSOs were officer-only, and could be awarded for general front-line 'good service' rather than 'pure courage', as with the VC. However, for a junior officer it could be regarded as pretty close to a VC, as being very much out of the ordinary.
Ann
All this is very interesting, especially the practice charges, since all I have read previously says that Alexandra didn't like riding and rode only when she had to.
However, it was not Helena Victoria, known as Thora, who married Aribert of Anhalt, but Marie Louise, and it was their brother Albert, not Aribert, who was known as Abby.
Have you managed to track anything down on the logistics of getting the trains into service?
Ann
Griffh, just wanted to say that reading this thread made me realize what a wonderful, kind-hearted woman Alexandra was. Thank you for that:)
All this is very interesting, especially the practice charges, since all I have read previously says that Alexandra didn't like riding and rode only when she had to.
However, it was not Helena Victoria, known as Thora, who married Aribert of Anhalt, but Marie Louise, and it was their brother Albert, not Aribert, who was known as Abby.
Have you managed to track anything down on the logistics of getting the trains into service?
Ann
Spot on! Ann. I thought I had gone back and corrected that mistake about Thora and Marie Louise, but apparently not!
I have not forgotten about your question as to the logistics of getting the first three trains up and running. I also had to research the logistics of getting Alix huge Winter Palace sklad up and running three days after Germany declared war on Russia.
You have posted a lot of interesting information on Alexandra. I am quite impressed she did all this for the war effort and it was not used until now.
The Order of St George. Which was for officers only. Was awarded for acts of heroism, succesfull generalship and to royalty. Alexei got his on 17 October 1915. Nicholas got his on 27 October 1915 and was quite pleased from what I have read. They both got the Order of St George 4th class the lowest of the four classes. All Russian rulars were made knights of St George except Tsar Alexander I who accepted the award after the 1805 campaign. The Order of the 4th class could either be awarded by the St George council in Petrograd or a General in the field if 7 knights of the order approve of it. I understand Alexei was decorated by general Ivanov when he was SouthWest Front commander after he visited some field hospitals.
Note on the 5th Hussars one of the regiments Alexandra was honorary Colonel of. The regiment adopted a black uniform in 1809 and apparently it stayed as the regiments dress uniform. Terms Dolman: tunic, Pelisse: Jacket worn over the left shoulder, Busby fur hat looks like short bearskin all part of the Hussars uniforms For lancers the Czapka: lance cap.
Alexandra was also honorary colonel of the 21st Siberian Rifle regiment 6th Siberian rifle regiment, V Siberian Corps. Could you give me a time period were the unit was gassed and I might be able to give you possible gas attack on them
As for Russian gas masks there is a book "Imperial Russian field uniforms and equipment 1907-1917" by John Somers that does have some information on them. I got the book by interlibrary loan and took a few notes on them:
Petrograd model 1 issued in June 1915 along with the models 2 and 3 used until the end of 1916 basicly just a guaze bandage and goggles
Filter mask designed by the collge of mines at St Petersburg issued in June 1916 and after they failed the troops in a July 1916 gas attack at Morgo were withdrawn in September 1916
The Zelinski-Komrant mask replaced them
as for the german mask I made a post on the Great war forums equipmet section and got quite a few replies. There were a number of posts with pictures of the German gas masks during WW I
Note The Italian ace Baracca's last victory was over Albatross D III 153.266 flown by Ltn Sigmund Von Joipovich of Flik 51 J who was wounded and captured
Dimitri Pavlovich was awarded the Order of St George 4th Class for rescuing a wounded man under fire in the East Prussian campaign. As I understand it, this was a fairly typical scenario for an award.Royalty seem to have been awarded the Order of St George 1st Class, while acts of gallantry by junior officers received the Order of St George 4th Class. I was interested to note that Kaiser Wilhelm I received two levels of the Order: 4th class for gallantry as a junior officer in February 1814, in the war against Napoleon; then much later, 1st Class in 1861 when he became King of Prussia.
Presumably the awards to Nicholas and Alexei were 'up with the rations'.
If the Blue train was bombed by the Austrians most of the KUK LFT-Kaiserliche und Konigliche Luftfartruppen (Imperial and Royal Aviation troops) records survived the war. There also weren't that many Fliks-Flieger Kompanie (aviation companies) each 4 aircraft with 2 in reserve operating on the Russian front in 1916 so If you give a date and location I may be able to match it up with a unit at least.
The train could have been delibratly bombed it is also possible it could be a case of a bomb being way off another target. It could have been an accident do to one or more of the following factors: poor eyesight, inexperience, health problems do to wounds or illness, flying with hangover, having what we would call today PTSD. The pilot may also been unable to make out the red crosses on the train do to smoke from the engine, ground mist or fog. By the way were red crosses painted on the tops of the railroad cars. Also note some cargos like aircraft were loaded on freight cars and covered with light colored canvas. The white roof s of the cars could have fades from use ect. I also think if this train or any other hospital train was damaged in any way someone would have photographed the damage. I also think the old Emperor Franz- Joseph would have been upset that one of his pilots would have delibratly bombed a hospital train.
I think when General A Knox mentions it took 17 hours to get from Warsaw to St Petersburg pre war. I think it could just mean express passenger and mail trains. I would say the regular freight trains ect took longer. He mentions in his book "With the Russian Army 1914-1917" that the same trip took 42 hours in March 1915.
You mention a decoration with a palm that sounds like a French decoration to me. They did palms with a second or more awards for some medals.
As for Nicholas St George order. He was the army commander and in the September- October period the Russians did stop a Austrian offensive and managed to retake some ground in some counter attacks. It looks like he did something to get this award.
I am glad you found my information usefull Griffh. I hope to find some more at a later date.
It could be the medal note on the site theaerodrome.com they have a section on WWI medals there is also a book "The Medals,Decorations, and Orders of the great War 1914-1918"
errata after doing a google search its the Zelinsky-Kummant gas mask and found pictures of it. The mask looks like the sort of old Soviet masks I have pictures of in an 1980s US army manual. Also the battle where the College of mines masks failed was at Smorgon on 19-20 July 1916
I made a posting of Alexandra's regiments on this site awhile back. it lists them and has a bit on where they served.
Griff
Many thanks for this.
Alexandra is someone who attracts very polarised views. I think the majority of us on this forum are somewhere in the middle. as you well know, I am not one of her admirers, but your researches have revealed a side to her that I did not know existed - her organising ability in getting those trains into service very quickly indeed.
Ann
See: marksrussianmilitaryhistory.info for the order of battle information which is 99.99% accurate
Just wanted to say that I find this thread fascinating. And while I can understand a certain level of discomfort for you Griffh when having an open disagreement with someone about a particular fact or source, I must say it makes for very entertaining and educational reading for the rest of us. Like a good mannered debate between experts that we all benefit from.
I'm looking forward to reading the final product as well. Like Ann I too float somewhere in the middle with Alexandra. The history lover in me holds a somewhat negative view of her whereas the Romanov devotee in me gives her decidedly more positive marks. Bottom line is that I've always wanted an excuse to like her more, and your superb analysis of her war work certainly helps with that, while managing to remain honest and unbiased. Keep up the good work!
Sept. 16th 1915, Tsarskoe Selo:
"I am choosing photos I made, so as to have an album printed for Xmas (like A.{unt} Alex's<) for charity, & I think it will sell well, as the small albums with my photos sold at once here this summer -& in the Crimea."
Perhaps it belongs in this thread since its about Alexandra and her charity work during the war.
"The Complete Wartime Correspondence" P. 241 -QuoteSept. 16th 1915, Tsarskoe Selo:
"I am choosing photos I made, so as to have an album printed for Xmas (like A.{unt} Alex's<) for charity, & I think it will sell well, as the small albums with my photos sold at once here this summer -& in the Crimea."
I didn't know Alexandra did something like this. Does anybody know anything about this charity album?
I wonder whether the charming canopy on board the supply train was for Alexandra when she paid a visit to the train.
Ann
This is mostly from the Book "The Russian Military Air Fleet in WW I Augie Blume
Order of battle KAOs August 1914 North West Front
Russian 1st Army 2,3,4,10 KAO
Russian 2nd Army 1,13,15,21,23
In the battle of Tannenburg where the Russian 2nd army was defeated the 13 KAO lost most of its equipment in the retreat the other KAOs also lost some of their equipment. The Germans reported that the Russians rarely flew beyond the Russian front line and their commanders if they got a report from their airmen didn't believe them! I also heard from a friend that the Russian XV corps commander while he complained bitterly about german aircraft flying over his command in a post WW I interview didn't order the 15th KAO under his command to fly a single recon mission! The Russians did have a few aircraft lost or damaged during this battle:
26 August 15 KAO one aircraft shot down by it own sides ground fire the crew survivied but was taken prisoner when the XV corps was encircled and captured.
27 August 13 KAO one aircraft MIA
28 August 15 KAO one aircraft lost engine trouble
29 August 21 KAO one pilot wounded by ground fire plane damaged but the pilot was able to land the plane
I hope this is of some use or interest.
Father Nicholas I thought you might like this photo from the Russian publication on Grand Duchess Olga A. war relief work, if you haven't already seen it.
Happy Thanksgiving to everyone as well.
(http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/zz18/Romanov11/PTDC0072.jpg) (http://s809.photobucket.com/user/Romanov11/media/PTDC0072.jpg.html)
Father Nicholas I thought you might like this photo from the Russian publication on Grand Duchess Olga A. war relief work, if you haven't already seen it.
Happy Thanksgiving to everyone as well.
(http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/zz18/Romanov11/PTDC0072.jpg) (http://s809.photobucket.com/user/Romanov11/media/PTDC0072.jpg.html)
That's lovely. Thank you very much!
Especially since it's from her august brother!
BTW: What is the name of the book?
Interesting that Nicholas wrote the postcard to Olga A in English.
Ann
Interesting that Nicholas wrote the postcard to Olga A in English.
Ann
Thanks Ann, and just to say Janet Ashton made the same observation.
Father Nicholas I thought you might like this photo from the Russian publication on Grand Duchess Olga A. war relief work, if you haven't already seen it.
Happy Thanksgiving to everyone as well.
(http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/zz18/Romanov11/PTDC0072.jpg) (http://s809.photobucket.com/user/Romanov11/media/PTDC0072.jpg.html)
That's lovely. Thank you very much!
Especially since it's from her august brother!
BTW: What is the name of the book?
Thanks for the link!
I would say it was probably stuck in a envelope or handed to a aide to deliver possibly both.
I have some more information you might find interesting:
On 10 September 1915 the Russian 5th army on the Northern front claimed it anti-aircraft fire downed a german aircraft bombing a hospital train at Ponomunok in the Dvina area. No reported German losses. I wonder if it was sponsored by the IF?
Thank you for the season's greetings and the lovely card. :) And congratulations on having found a publisher for your book. With your two other articles not being published in Royalty Digest Quarterly, I look forward to it all the more now.
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!
Griff, I look forward to reading your book once it is published. I really enjoyed the first three articles on the subject.
Merry xmas. I will be reading your book one day. I am glad my information has been of help to you. I may have some more information for you next year.
In reply 131 there is mention of Italian aircraft in Lybia. There is a book that has just come out that I sumbled upon on Amazon called "A Box of Sand" that deals with this campaign there.
On the Great war forum section Women and the great war there is a posting on Nurses serving in Moscow and St Petersberg 1914-1918 There are a number of replies dealing with the Anglo-Russian hospital. They include photos one looks like AOTMA and the other has ON TN, DEMF, Maria P the elder, and Victoria M (Ducky)