Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => The Hohenzollern => Topic started by: kmerov on January 23, 2005, 06:15:06 PM

Title: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: kmerov on January 23, 2005, 06:15:06 PM
A bit of the topic regarding the Hohenzollerns, but does anyone have some information on the royal house of Sachsen or Saxony?
They seem to be missing in the royal marrying circles, or maybe its just me.
I have read somewhere that a Crown Princess made a scandal, but dont know what she did or who she was!
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Robert_Hall on January 23, 2005, 06:26:34 PM
Louise, a Habsburg [Tuscany] princess. She ran off with another man, left hubby & kids. Wrote her apologia, as did her paramour. Kind of racy for the Saxon royals. Interesting family and odd successions.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Robert_Hall on January 23, 2005, 06:30:59 PM
They tended to marry in the Roman Catholic royal circles.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: kmerov on January 23, 2005, 06:42:26 PM
Thank you. That would inded qualify as a scandal, sounds very juicy! So she never returned to her family? Maybe im stupid but is paramour, lover?
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: kmerov on January 23, 2005, 06:44:50 PM
oh, do you know when it happend?
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Robert_Hall on January 23, 2005, 07:16:16 PM
Fred. Aug. III & Louise div. in 1903.
She married her toy boy in 1907 & div. him in 1912.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Robert_Hall on January 23, 2005, 07:22:26 PM
As I recall, without going back and reading the book right away, she tried to "snatch" the kids, got cought and was paid off to stay away for the rest of her life.
It is  her grandson [b. 1926]  who is head of the family now [Meissen]. {I am shaky but must be close on that date]
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on January 23, 2005, 10:31:12 PM
There was a series in Royaylty magazine (3-part) a year or so ago that caught my interest. I had never heard of her before but, yes, juicy stuff! I had to go out and get her autobiography after that. She apparently felt stifled by the stiff court and ran off with her children's tutor in 1903. There were rumors that her youngest daughter, Princess Anna Monica, was her lover's rather than her husband's since she was born after Louise left. I think she (Louise) resided in a sanatorium while pregnant and immediately after. Eventually she gave up this child, who went to live in Dresden with her father and siblings,  and basically her other children, seeing them only infrequently. She and the lover eventually broke up and, after the King divorced her, she married a composer or violinist named Enrico Toselli. She died in poverty in Brussells in 1947 and the King had abdicated in 1918 and died in 1932. It was quite the scandal and I have a series of postcards which detail how she abandoned the children and of her with her lover--really shocking for the times that it was so commented on publicly rather than hidden away. There were 3 sons (2 born the same year!) and 3 daughters.  Her eldest son George is interesting to me as he renounced his rights in 1923 and  became a Jesuit  priest and was perhaps murdered by the Nazis as he was an outspoken opponent (as were many of the Catholic royal houses it seems--Saxony, Wurttemberg, Bavaria). Another son married Sophie of Luxemburg (one of the 6 lovely daughters there) and 2 of the daughters married Hohenzollern brothers (not descended from the Kaiser--different branch). Anna Monica married Archduke Josef Franz of Austria.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: HerrKaiser on January 24, 2005, 10:06:38 AM
The home/castle of the Saxon royal family was a lovely place in the most wonderful setting. It along with the rest of Dresden and 500,000 of its citizens and refugees were destroyed in 1945. Part of the royal complex was the Taschenbergpalais, also a fantastic palace. The Taschenbergpalais has been rebuilt as a 5 star hotel. The royal palace has been or will be rebuilt but not as a hotel or residence. The nearby Semper Opera house, which some believe to the Europe's most beautiful, was destroyed as well but reconstructed with precise detail and now stands in all its glory.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Robert_Hall on January 24, 2005, 10:26:42 AM
Are the Green Vaults in one of these palaces, or were they lost as well ?
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: HerrKaiser on January 24, 2005, 10:50:39 AM
Thanks Robert. Yes, the Green Vaults were destroyed as well, but the contents were removed and stored in the mines nearby prior to the conflagration. The room has been rebuilt and contents replaced, although the Russian troops made off with a significant amount of the treasures. The Green Vault was originally in the royal residence and after the WWII was located in the Zwinger, I think (may have been another museum). Now however it is back to its original location in the newly restored royal castle, or at least soon to be. The treasures were on a global tour years ago under the name "The Splendors of Dresden". We can thank the royal family of Saxony (King Augustus mainly) for accumulating such a collection.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Robert_Hall on January 24, 2005, 11:02:44 AM
Although I did not see the exhibit, I do have a bokk [rather lacish] from that tour. The treasures were incredible, equal to the most exquisite  Faberge I thought. From that book alone I have always wanted to see them.

The items taken by the Soviets- are they being returned in this new spirit of exchange ?
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: HerrKaiser on January 24, 2005, 12:16:31 PM
The 'new spirit of exchange' is a funny one in that the top art people, who one would think live above political issues, seem to be very possessive. There is ongoing discussions about the return of items, both from Russia to Germany and Germany to Russia. Most citizens and museum hierarchy would like to restore the "ownerships" to pre 1945 status, but it is an continuing discussion that has no end in sight.

QEII was in Dresden a few months ago, her second visit.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: kmerov on January 24, 2005, 02:03:28 PM
Thank you all for the pictures and info :)
Why was the succession od, and what did the treasures contain?
So nothing of the old Dresden before 1945 exist?
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: bluetoria on January 24, 2005, 02:24:41 PM
Quote
  Her eldest son George is interesting to me as he renounced his rights in 1923 and  became a Jesuit  priest and was perhaps murdered by the Nazis as he was an outspoken opponent (as were many of the Catholic royal houses it seems--Saxony, Wurttemberg, Bavaria).  


grandduchessella, do you have any more information about him, please? I have been trying to find out about him for some time but have not been able to find anything.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: HerrKaiser on January 24, 2005, 03:14:43 PM
Right, Kmerov, the Dresden of pre 1945 was completely destroyed in February 1945. The damage, both in terms of structural losses and human life, was far greater than even the A-bombs dropped on Japan later that year.
Since Dresden was in the Soviet sector which ultimately became East Germany, the rebuilding was essentially a joke. Few original buildings were reconstructed, the notable exceptions were the Semper Opera house that took 40 years to rebuild and the Zwinger. Most of the other grand historical structures were left in ruin. In the mid 1980s, much of the inner city looked like the war just ended except for the weeds growing up in the rubble.
Most of the building completed during the communist era were communist style structures--large, looming rows of concrete boxes to house the population and commercial needs.
When the Wall fell, eastern Germany went on a mad rush to make up for 45 years of neglect and bad architecture/planning/rebuilding asap. It has worked out pretty well. The show piece of the reconstruction in Dresden is the largest baroque cathedral in the world rebuilt from ashes and due to be dedicated next October.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on January 24, 2005, 03:29:02 PM
Quote
Although I did not see the exhibit, I do have a bokk [rather lacish] from that tour. The treasures were incredible, equal to the most exquisite  Faberge I thought. From that book alone I have always wanted to see them.

The items taken by the Soviets- are they being returned in this new spirit of exchange ?


I was lucky enough that the exhibition went through Mississippi *gasp!* The items were quite something--very baroque. Not really my style though a little _too_ much ala Versailles or Neuschwanstein. It's lovely to look at in small doses but too much makes you a little queasy.  :-/

bluetoria--I'll look around for some info on George. I've only found bare sketches--once when I was looking at info regarding German royal opposition to WW2 and another time in William Lalor's book Royalty Before the Wars where it's mentioned briefly in the caption.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Eurohistory on January 25, 2005, 08:10:53 AM
The Royal House of Saxony is about to become extinct in the male line.  Keeping this in mind, Margrave Maria Emanuel of Saxony had hoped that his sister Mathilde's son, Prince Johannes of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, would become the next heir.  Unfortunately Johannes died in a harrowing climbing accident in the Alps and that put a tragic end to this solution.

Then the Margrave consulted with his family and decided that the new heir would be his other nephew Alexander Afif-Gessaphe, raised in Mexico, and the eldest son of Princess Maria Anna of Saxony by her late husband Roberto Afif.  The Afifi family claim membership in a Middle eastern "royal" clan as Princes of Gessaphe.

Anyhow, Alexander was elevated to the title of Prince by his uncle the Margrave and made everyone extremely happy by finding himself a royal bride, Princess Gisela of Bavaria.  she happens to be the youngets daughter of Prince Rasso of Bavaria and Archduchess Theresia of Austria-Tuscany, a great-granddaughter of Emperor Franz Joseph.  Prince Rasso himself is a grandson of King Ludwig III of Bavaria' the country's last monarch.

Prince Alexander and Princess Gisela are the parents of four children.  The couple have lived in Dresden since the last 6 years and he works for the Saxon government's office of international investment.  It is his duty to attract foreign business to Saxony, a position he has fulfilled with great distinction.

Initialy all male and female members of the Saxon family (the Margrave, Prince Albert, Princess Maria Anna, Princess Maria Josepha, princess Mathilde and their cousins Princes Dedo and Gero) signed a document in which all agreed that Alexander would be the family's "dynastic" heir.  However, since then there have been problems and Albert, Gero and Dedo, decided to throw their support behind Herr Rüdiger Prinz von Sachsen, the morganatic son of the late Prince Timo of Saxony, the much-married brother of Dedo and Gero.  Rüdiger has had a checkered career to say the least, with prison stints, fraud, lawsuits and even the suicide of his poor suffering wife.

The Margrave has never wavered in his support of Alexander's cause however and to royal Europe, Alexander is the accepted heir.

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: bluetoria on January 26, 2005, 09:40:29 AM
Quote
 Her eldest son George is interesting to me as he renounced his rights in 1923 and  became a Jesuit  priest and was perhaps murdered by the Nazis as he was an outspoken opponent  


I found from a Jesuit paper that he was drowned on May 14 1943 for sheltering Jewish people...but where and under what exact circumstances it didn't say...nor how he was caught. He is buried in Dresden.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Eurohistory on January 27, 2005, 09:34:22 AM
Quote

I found from a Jesuit paper that he was drowned on May 14 1943 for sheltering Jewish people...but where and under what exact circumstances it didn't say...nor how he was caught. He is buried in Dresden.


Rest assured that poor Georg was done in by the nazis

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on January 27, 2005, 10:53:27 AM
Anything you'd like to add to that enigmatic statment?  :)
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Eurohistory on January 27, 2005, 11:28:20 AM
No enigma at all...former Kronprinz Georg of Saxony, who became a Jesuit priest in 1924, was caught helping Jews by the SS, who quickly disposed of him and made it seem like a drowning. (Source: Prince Albert of Saxony, noted historian of the Royal House, as well as nephew of Kronrinz Georg)

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: bluetoria on January 27, 2005, 11:51:45 AM
Do you have any MORE information, please, Arturo? Such as was he hiding the Jews as part of a Jesuit scheme, or was he acting by himself? Did he save many people or just hide one or two? Was he hiding them of helping them to escape? Was his family aware of what had happened to him? Was he betrayed or just caught? How was he 'supposed' to have drowned etc etc. ? Anything at all would be interesting, please :)
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Robert_Hall on January 27, 2005, 11:54:58 AM
I think [not positive] I read some time ago that there was a cause for his beatification and also that he was declared "righteous gentile" ?? Rather appropriate topic for today, as it is the commemoration of the liberation of Auschwitz.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: bluetoria on January 27, 2005, 11:57:22 AM
Is that so, Robert? (Beatification) That's partly what I was trying to find out...if you come across anything else, ever, please will you post it?
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Robert_Hall on January 27, 2005, 12:07:59 PM
Sure, would be happy to. However, Arturo is far more likely to find out, as he is "into" royal saints and such. Did he not just attend the rites in the Vatican for Karl [Habsburg]?
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Eurohistory on January 27, 2005, 02:07:33 PM
Prince Albert of Saxony stated the following:

It can however be said that Crown Prince Georg was in fact murdered, as it has been clearly established that he hid Jews from persecution by the Nazis during his time in Berlin.  As I (Prince Albert) have learned from several interviews, it can be assumed that the SS had a part in his death.

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: kmerov on January 27, 2005, 02:56:27 PM
Why did some of the family members change their views on Alexander being "heir"? Doesnt seem quit fair, unless for a very good reason!
And their new choice dosnt seem an obvious one with his history!
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Robert_Hall on January 27, 2005, 03:06:37 PM
Want to bet that it involves  $$$ ? I understand the family is very involved in business.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Eurohistory on January 27, 2005, 06:12:25 PM
Quote
Want to bet that it involves  $$$ ? I understand the family is very involved in business.



Bobby,

In answer to this...BINGO - Cha-ching!

Money is the reason why Gero. Dedo and Albert recanted their signatures, as well as ambion on Albert's morganatic wife, who expects to be treated as a full-titled princes and uses the HRH, to which she is not entitled as an unequal spouse.

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on January 27, 2005, 06:33:18 PM
Quote
Prince Albert of Saxony stated the following:

It can however be said that Crown Prince Georg was in fact murdered, as it has been clearly established that he hid Jews from persecution by the Nazis during his time in Berlin.  As the I (Prince Albert) have learned from several interviews, it can be assumed that the SS had a part in his death.Arturo Beéche



Thank you--Arturo. That is the information I was wondering about when I said 'enigmatic'. Just wanted to get a handle on where the information and flesh the details out.  :)  You always drop us these delicious little tidbits that leave us going and....?  ;) There is such a lack of information out there about George--is Prince Albert, as family historian, planning any writing on such a topic?

Also, it would seem, if all the information is true, that there would be good grounds for some sort of Vatican recognition.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: kmerov on January 27, 2005, 07:23:17 PM
Its always about the money! Lets hope there is plenty of them at least!

And yes, they should recognise Georg and others who riskt their own lives to save innocent people!
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Eurohistory on January 28, 2005, 10:06:36 AM
Quote


Thank you--Arturo. That is the information I was wondering about when I said 'enigmatic'. Just wanted to get a handle on where the information and flesh the details out.  :)  You always drop us these delicious little tidbits that leave us going and....?  ;) There is such a lack of information out there about George--is Prince Albert, as family historian, planning any writing on such a topic?

Also, it would seem, if all the information is true, that there would be good grounds for some sort of Vatican recognition.


Well if I give all the details, what's the insentive then for people to subscribe to my magazine then?  Although I can think of many benefits suibscribers get, from quality of material to illustrations!

A little tease goes a long way!  ;)

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: cimbrio on September 15, 2005, 05:29:09 PM
Hello y'all! I'd like to learn more about the Kings of Saxony, related to the reigning royal families of Belgium, Great Britain, Portugal and Bulgaria, and through the female line to probably all other old royal families of Europe.As far as I can see from genealogical trees I've found, the Kings of Saxony were also Kings of Poland in the person of Frederick Augustus II (1670-1733) and his son Augustus III (1696-1763);  the latter was succeeded by his eldest son Frederick Christian, but from I can see, he died the same year as his father (three months later) and was only styled "Kurfurst" (why's that?). Frederick Christian was succeeded by his childless son FRederick Augustus, who was followed by his brother Anton I (r. 1827-1836). However, he only had daughters and a son, all of which died before their father, so the throne should have reverted to his surviving brother Maximilian. Nevertheless, the throne passed to the latter's eldest son, Frederick Augustus (r.1836-1854), but sinc ehe had no issue, he was succeeded by his brother Johann I (r. 1854-1873). His wife Amalia, of the house of Bavaria, gave him several children, the eldest of which became King of Saxony in 1873, and remained so till his death in 1902, when he was succeeded by his brother Georg, who died two years later. His son, the last King of Saxony, was Frederick Augustus III (1865-1932). His eldest son renounced his rights to become a priest in 1923; the second married a Princess of Thurn und Taxis and had a few children. The eldest, Emanuel, is married to Anastasia-Luise of Anhalt but they have no children, so the next in line would be his brother, were he not married to a commoner. Next would come the descendants of Prince Ernst Friedrich, son of Frederick Augustus III, but only his second son ever got married, and it was to commoners, so I suspect his descendants are ruled out of the line sof succession.
So, in view that there are no male members of the Royal House of Saxony that are descended from equal marriages, who will have the rights of succession once Emanuel of Saxony dies?
Plus, any info on their spouses, including the deceased Queens of Saxony? Why did this branch remain or turn Catholic while the other branches of the Wettin family converted to Protestantism?
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: bell_the_cat on September 17, 2005, 05:32:28 AM
Hi Cimbrio!

I live in Saxony! The Library where I sometimes work in Leipzig is called the Albertinum after King Albert.

However there's very little information about the monarchs here. In fact most people are only dimly aware that there even were kings of Saxony, and are surprised to learn that there was one as recently as 1918. If you mention one of the kings people look at you as if you've said something very peculiar!

The dynasty was increasingly unpopular in the nineteenth century. The Catholicism of the ruling house (the people were mostly protestants) may have been a factor. I think it was Augustus II who converted and this may have had something to do with his ambitions for the Polish crown.

The personal union with Poland was never a success. The partners were too different. The Wettiner persisted in this dream however, even after Poland had ceased to exist. It was one of the reasons Frederick Augustus I supported Napoleon, which led to an embarassing and bloody defeat at the Battle of Leipzig in 1813, followed by the loss of half of Saxony's territory.

Frederick Augustus III lobbied the Kaiser to be given the Polish Crown in 1918 after the Brest Litovsk treaty!



Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Linnea on September 17, 2005, 09:14:50 AM
I maybe wrong, but won´t Prince Alexander of Saxony, son of Roberto Afif, Prince of Gessaphe and Princess Maria Anna of Saxony, granddaughter of the last king of Saxony, be the next head of the family? He is married to Princess Gisela (that name :-X!) of Bavaria and has three sons and one daughter.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Wettin on September 17, 2005, 06:15:30 PM
Thanks Cimbrio for your "surfing safary" intro to this new thread. And what are we to do with the already existing thread "Re: Queens of Saxony"? Why make this board even more confusing? And Linnea didn´t you learn from the old Romans never to discuss matters of taste. If you put aside dislikes of a name perhaps the Lord will do to you as he says in your citation of psalm 91. To the real interesting question: Why has Maria Emanuel, ( both names please, Cimbrio) Margrave of Meissen, the present head of the Royal House of Wettin adopted his nephew Alexander  von SACHSEN GESSAPHE as his heir and this with the written  consent of his younger brother Albert and his  cousins Dedo and Gero? Because his eldest cousin Timo was mariied thrice morganatically ( the third time his wife was actually also married for her third time). In Timo´s first morganatic marriage to Margrit Lucas, daughter of master butcher Carl Lucas and his wife Hildegard Stube he had a son Rüdiger and a daughter Iris. (Rüdiger is by the way advertising for a new wife). What about King Georg´s Younger sons? Johann Georg was married twice but childless. Next, Maximilian who was ordained a priest in 1896 and thus no offspring.  Next Albert who was killed in an accident at a military maneuver at Wolkau in 1900. Thus no male offspring and when Maria Emanuel dies the albertinian line of the Royal House of Wettin will be extinct.
And bell_the_cat: I don´t know for how long you´ve worked at a library. I´m myself a librarian. Take the train or car to Dresden, walk over Carolabrücke (how come that name still after 44 years of GDR-time?). Borrow the book "Das alte Dresden" by Fritz Löffler with hundreds of photos from before the bombings in February 1945. Ask yourself the question why this book was THE bestseller on the black market in GDR.  
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Linnea on September 19, 2005, 02:54:53 AM
Why not with Friedrich August III. and his wife Luisa (although she never became queen)? I´m very interested in this pair.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Marlene on September 19, 2005, 08:55:49 AM
Are you sure Albert agreed to Max Emanuel's adoption of their nephew.   This adoption would not have happened if another nephew  Prince Johannes of Saxe Coburg and Gotha, who died in a mountain climbing accident, I believe.    Johannes was the designated heir.

Timo barely knew his two kids - he spent a lot of time in hospitals - and his two children were raised by maternal relatives.  I corresponded with Dedo and Gero (the latter now deceased), and Timo's second wife - and  none barely knew Timo's kids

Quote
Thanks Cimbrio for your "surfing safary" intro to this new thread. And what are we to do with the already existing thread "Re: Queens of Saxony"? Why make this board even more confusing? And Linnea didn´t you learn from the old Romans never to discuss matters of taste. If you put aside dislikes of a name perhaps the Lord will do to you as he says in your citation of psalm 91. To the real interesting question: Why has Maria Emanuel, ( both names please, Cimbrio) Margrave of Meissen, the present head of the Royal House of Wettin adopted his nephew Alexander  von SACHSEN GESSAPHE as his heir and this with the written  consent of his younger brother Albert and his  cousins Dedo and Gero? Because his eldest cousin Timo was mariied thrice morganatically ( the third time his wife was actually also married for her third time). In Timo´s first morganatic marriage to Margrit Lucas, daughter of master butcher Carl Lucas and his wife Hildegard Stube he had a son Rüdiger and a daughter Iris. (Rüdiger is by the way advertising for a new wife). What about King Georg´s Younger sons? Johann Georg was married twice but childless. Next, Maximilian who was ordained a priest in 1896 and thus no offspring.  Next Albert who was killed in an accident at a military maneuver at Wolkau in 1900. Thus no male offspring and when Maria Emanuel dies the albertinian line of the Royal House of Wettin will be extinct.
And bell_the_cat: I don´t know for how long you´ve worked at a library. I´m myself a librarian. Take the train or car to Dresden, walk over Carolabrücke (how come that name still after 44 years of GDR-time?). Borrow the book "Das alte Dresden" by Fritz Löffler with hundreds of photos from before the bombings in February 1945. Ask yourself the question why this book was THE bestseller on the black market in GDR.  

Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Wettin on September 19, 2005, 03:33:07 PM
I agree with you Marlene that the adoption of Alexander hadn´t taken place if Prince Johannes hadn´t died in an accidence. Johannes was the son of Maria Emanuel´s (not Max, I agree,  it´s difficult but very catholic with a man called Maria ) sister princess Mathilde who was married to prince Johannes Heinrich of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha. The adoption of Alexander, son of ME:s other sister princess Maria Anna, in May 1999  by Maria Emanuel was according to my knowledge approved by ME:s younger brother Albert and ME:s cousins Dedo and Gero.
Who is to blame that ME:s cousin Timo hardly knew his  two kids? I think not ME.They were born in a morganatic marriage and I interpret the word morganatic as a union between a royal and a non-royal person which is against the so called house rules and/or against the will of the head of the family, in this case Friedrich Christian, Margrave of Meissen, the father of ME. The two kids´ mother died in 1957 and they were raised by her relatives.
In a way I think this feud over titles is just "academic". Correct me if I´m wrong but in the Federal Republic of Germany there are no royal titles anymore. They are just part of the surname. If I wished to, and the authorities would allow it, I could change my surname to "vom Walde und zu Hause". The real fight is over the controll of the family funds "Haus Wettin eV" founded in 1924 or what´s left of it after WWII, with new contributions in shape of the Moritzburg treasure, sold at Sotheby´s London in 1999 for almost  GBP.2.3 million, the deal with the Federal Republic of Germany in 1999 over about 12,000 objects for about DEM 24 million, the claims for August the Strong´s table silver and other objects  taken by the red army´s invasion in February 1945.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Marlene on September 20, 2005, 08:54:17 AM

It is of course academic, but for royal genealogists, such as my self, one does differentiate between someone who has the title as a surname and one who is an actual recognized member of the family.  Legally, both have the same surname, but for tradition and inheritance, there is a difference.  Titles are not recognized in law, but in Germany, certainly in social and even government circles ...

Timo had mental health issues .. he was also not adverse to selling his name - which he did during his third marriage, adopting an adult male, who is now known as Hermann Prinz von Sachsen.
Quote
I agree with you Marlene that the adoption of Alexander hadn´t taken place if Prince Johannes hadn´t died in an accidence. Johannes was the son of Maria Emanuel´s (not Max, I agree,  it´s difficult but very catholic with a man called Maria ) sister princess Mathilde who was married to prince Johannes Heinrich of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha. The adoption of Alexander, son of ME:s other sister princess Maria Anna, in May 1999  by Maria Emanuel was according to my knowledge approved by ME:s younger brother Albert and ME:s cousins Dedo and Gero.
Who is to blame that ME:s cousin Timo hardly knew his  two kids? I think not ME.They were born in a morganatic marriage and I interpret the word morganatic as a union between a royal and a non-royal person which is against the so called house rules and/or against the will of the head of the family, in this case Friedrich Christian, Margrave of Meissen, the father of ME. The two kids´ mother died in 1957 and they were raised by her relatives.
In a way I think this feud over titles is just "academic". Correct me if I´m wrong but in the Federal Republic of Germany there are no royal titles anymore. They are just part of the surname. If I wished to, and the authorities would allow it, I could change my surname to "vom Walde und zu Hause". The real fight is over the controll of the family funds "Haus Wettin eV" founded in 1924 or what´s left of it after WWII, with new contributions in shape of the Moritzburg treasure, sold at Sotheby´s London in 1999 for almost  GBP.2.3 million, the deal with the Federal Republic of Germany in 1999 over about 12,000 objects for about DEM 24 million, the claims for August the Strong´s table silver and other objects  taken by the red army´s invasion in February 1945.

Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Prince_Lieven on September 20, 2005, 11:01:17 AM
You consider adoption 'selling' one's name, Marlene?
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Marlene on September 20, 2005, 11:07:33 AM
Quote
You consider adoption 'selling' one's name, Marlene?



When an adult pays another adult to be adopted, yes, that is selling one's name.  I am not talking about the adoption of children, but the practice of adopting an adult - he gets your titled surname and you get money.

The late Princess Marie Auguste of Anhalt adopted a number of people, including Robert Lichtenberg, who became Frederic Prinz von Anhalt  (and married Zsa Zsa Gabor).  Her grandson, Franz Friedrich, in the 1990s, adopted one Gert Friedrich Janssen, who became Gert Friedrich Prinz von Preussen.  There are various Saxe-Altenburgs (an extinct line) and Sayn Wittgensteins floating around too - none of whom are members of the family but were adopted, and now have royal surnames.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Wettin on September 23, 2005, 05:56:59 PM
Marlene I understand that the adoptions can cause a lot of trouble to you royal genealogist. Perhaps I take the matter to lightheartedly but I´m only royal. And yes, Marlene, " titles are not recognized in law, but in Germany, certainly in social and even government circles ... ". I myself find it a bit sickening because Í never had a chance to choose my parents and I want to be known for my own merits. If titles hadn´t been recognized socially there wouldn´t have been a market for selling them. And Lieven, oh sorry I forgot the Prince_thing,  the adoption of Alexander "is to ease the transition of an inheritance or something" namely Haus Wettin eV. I´m sure most of the Family Wettin considers the Albertine Line extinct when Maria Emanuel, Margrave of Meissen, Duke of Saxony is deceased. I think the goal of the adoption is to get a sort of continuos  working presence in Saxony and for Saxony. I think that´s also the reason why Alexander with family lives in Dresden. All the time in exile the Royal House of Wettin through many of its able members has worked for keeping the traditions of Saxony alive.



Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: cimbrio on October 13, 2005, 11:11:48 AM
Prince Georg of Saxony (1893-1943) gave up his succession rights to become a Jesuit priest in 1923. During WWII he helped conceal Jews, and was consequently murdered by the Nazis.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: cimbrio on October 13, 2005, 11:13:29 AM
Frederick Augustus of Saxony married Princess Luise of Tuscanny. Here are two pieces of info I've taken from the net:

Luise of Tuscany (2 September 1870 Salzburg–23 March 1947) was born in Salzburg under the name Luise Antoinette Maria Theresia Josepha Johanna Leopoldine Caroline Ferdinande Alice Ernestine Habsburg, Princess Imperial and Archduchess of Austria, Princess of Hungary and Bohemia, Princess of Tuscany. She was a daughter of Ferdinand IV of Tuscany and his second wife Alicia of Bourbon-Parma.

On 21 November 1891 she married Frederik Augustus of Saxony in Vienna. She was very popular in Saxony. She didn't follow the etiquette at the court which resulted in arguments with her father in law. On 9 December 1902 she left Saxony without her children but pregnant with her youngest daughter. For a while she lived with the teacher of her children, André Giron.

She was divorced 11 February 1903. Her last child with Friedrich August was sent to Dresden to live at the court.

Her father awarded her the title of Countess of Montignoso.

On 25 September 1907 she married the musician Enrico Toselli in London. They where divorced five years later.

She died in Brussels and her urn is in Sigmaringen.

Saxon Monarch. Oldest son of King George. He was married to Luise of Tuscany, Archduchess of Austria in 1891 in Vienna. They had seven children together. Luise was as popular as her husband. She loved the people of Saxony but suffered under the strict etiquette at the court and often failed to follow it. Her father in law showed no understanding for her, which made life at the court unbearable for her. After King Alberts death with whom she always had a good relationship, she fled with her children's teacher André Giron from the court in December 1902. He was a loving father and raised his children from this day on alone. He legitimated Anna Pia Monika, the child Luise gave birth to in May 1903, and treated her as one of his own which wasn't a proven fact. The people sympathized with both. The marriage was terminated in 1903. He succeeded his father in 1904. During his reign Saxonys economy and cultural life flourished. Many anecdotes about him survived. His speech during the opening ceremony for a new bridge were only the words: "Let's walk over it." He was known to speak the saxon dialect and not a clear german which made him even more popular. In the beginning of WWI he was for the participation but changed his mind pretty soon. Once he asked a soldier how long he fought in the war already. The soldier answered: "From the very beginning, your majesty." He said: "So you have enough of it, too." During the November Revolution he forbid his soldiers the use of firearms against the revolutionaries. On November 13 he abdicated. He was the only german royalty that only renounced his own rights for the throne, but not his family's rights. The over 800 year lasting reign of House Wettin ended with his abdication. It was the longest time a european house ruled a country. He went to his Castle Sybillenort near Wroclaw in Silesia. He lived there happily until his death. His body was brought back to Dresden where 200.000 people followed the coffin through the city. His popularity is unbroken until today. One can see lit candles and fresh lowers at the sarcophagus all year.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: HerrKaiser on October 13, 2005, 01:51:14 PM
It is so true the Saxon royal family remains a significantly honored family in this, once regal, part of Germany. When "the wall fell" in 1989, the royal family led the parade in Dresden celebrating the liberation from the communist regime.

What was the response of the family when Dresden was reduced to ashes in February 1945?

also, is the castle near Breslau still owned by the family? Breslau and the rest of the Silesian province was ceded to Poland after WWII and I believe all that was German was given to Poland without compensation to owners.

Thanks!
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Paola on May 18, 2006, 10:34:54 AM
Does anyone read this book "Secret Memoir, The Court of Royal Saxony, 1891-1902: The Story of Louise, Crown Princess: From the pages of her diary, lost at the time of her elopement from Dresden with M. Andre (”Richard”) Giron" by Henry W. Fischer? It seems quite interesting but it is so hard to find. I tried second hand bookstores and  inter loan libraries here in Europe and nothing.

Paola
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: José on May 18, 2006, 11:58:15 AM
Quote

Actually, she never married André Giron.
He was "just" the father of her last daughter  :-X.
After divorceing her husband she re-married Enrico Toselli and had a child with him.
Are there any photos of Toselli and the child ?
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Paola on May 18, 2006, 12:25:07 PM
I saw once a picture of Louise's son by Toselli, Filiberto, as adult with his daughter. I think it was in Erica Bestenreiner biography of  Louise. What happened to Giron after his affair with Louise?Did he return to his country, Belgium?Did he marry? Princess Ana Monica looks indeed different in looks from her siblings.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: MarieCharlotte on October 18, 2006, 05:10:56 AM

(http://www.royaltyguide.nl/images-families/wettin/saxonyalbert4/1923%20Timo.jpg)

Prince Timo

Prince Timo was the only one of the brothers to be married. But I don't have pictures of his wives Margit, Charlotte and Erna. Timo is the grandfather of Princess Xenia of Saxony (20) who can often be seen on German television. She's something like an It-Girl or Party-Chick.  ;)

Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Daniela on October 18, 2006, 05:18:31 AM
Wonder, who choose their names? Are this names frequent in Germany?

Daniela
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: MarieCharlotte on October 18, 2006, 05:22:01 AM
Wonder, who choose their names? Are this names frequent in Germany?

Daniela

No, names like "Timo, Dedo and Gero" are absolutely rare in Germany. And I must confess that I don't like them.  :-\ Rüdiger however is quite common.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: José on October 18, 2006, 11:06:03 AM
Dear José,

I'm sorry, but I don't have any pictures of the second husbands of Princess Elisabeth and Princess Anna Monica Pia of Saxony.

Maria Josepha (born 1928) isn't married and as far as I know she doesn't have any children. Why do you think that she has a daughter called Christine?


I know Maria Josepha didn't get married but apparently she had a daughter in 1956, Marie Christinne.

http://geneweb.inria.fr/roglo?lang=pt;i=288684

P.Theroff doesn't mentione her.May be the book on German Nobility refers her ?
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: MarieCharlotte on October 18, 2006, 01:43:01 PM

Of course she could have had a daughter without being married. Why not? It is quite hard, even in Germany, to find books about the Royal Family of Saxony. I couldn't find any information about "Marie Christine" in my books.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Marie Valerie on October 21, 2006, 08:10:27 AM
Let's talk about the famous Crownprincess of Saxony, who ran away with her children's teacher while she was pregnant...

Luise, Erzherzogin von Österreich & Prinzessin von Toskana
(* 2nd September 1870 in Salzburg; † 18th March 1947 in Brussels)





Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Yseult on October 21, 2006, 09:58:32 AM
Pictures of Louise and her husband Frederick Augustus of Saxony. They divorced in 1903:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e56/vanozzacatanei/LouiseofTuscany.jpg)

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e56/vanozzacatanei/FrederickAugustusofSaxony.png)

Louise had five children when she ran away with the teacher André Giron. She was pregnant of her daughter Anna Pia Monika, named Monika, fathered by Giron but recognized and treated as his own daughters by Frederick Augustus.

After the divorce with Frederick, she remarried a musician, Enrico Toselli. But the new marriage was not a succesful one and they only spent together five years.

Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: MarieCharlotte on October 21, 2006, 11:01:49 AM
Louise had five children when she ran away with the teacher André Giron. She was pregnant of her daughter Anna Pia Monika, named Monika, fathered by Giron but recognized and treated as his own daughters by Frederick Augustus.

Louise called her youngest daughter Monica, but after the little girl had returned to her father Friedrich August, she was known as Anna.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: britt.25 on October 21, 2006, 11:40:43 AM
Was Anna really fathered by Giron? Is this sure or only possible? Is there a picture of him to compare...? I think Anna did look a bit different than the other siblings, but not too different. Friedrich August really isn´t the father ???
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: MarieCharlotte on October 21, 2006, 03:07:56 PM
Was Anna really fathered by Giron? Is this sure or only possible? Is there a picture of him to compare...? I think Anna did look a bit different than the other siblings, but not too different. Friedrich August really isn´t the father ???

I think Anna was the spitting image of her mother, especially as a child. But there are also photos of Anna as an adult on which she looks a lot like her mother. She definitely had her mother's eyes.


Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: britt.25 on October 22, 2006, 03:35:33 AM
Is it only a rumour that Friedrich August isn´t the father? Do you know how Giron looked like?
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Svetabel on October 22, 2006, 03:57:06 AM
Is it only a rumour that Friedrich August isn´t the father? Do you know how Giron looked like?

I think this image was many times for bidding on ebay.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/CrownprincessLuise_lover.jpg)
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: José on October 22, 2006, 06:42:57 AM
Are there any photos of Louise and E. Toselli ?
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Marc on October 22, 2006, 08:21:19 AM
Has anybody seen any portrait of Louise or Luise?
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on October 22, 2006, 11:38:35 AM
Are there any photos of Louise and E. Toselli ?

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/germany/208791.jpg)

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/germany/118241.jpg)
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on October 22, 2006, 11:40:07 AM
With Giron, she looks pregnant here:

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/germany/6177941.jpg)

and the reaction in Germany:

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/germany/248000.jpg)
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: britt.25 on October 22, 2006, 01:12:16 PM
Was it so widely public ???
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on October 22, 2006, 01:46:49 PM
Her abandonment of her family was a huge scandal. I have a series of postcards from the period that are similar to the last one I posted in tone. Others show the sanitarium were Louise spent time. She also wrote an autobiography that was widely published.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Linnea on October 22, 2006, 02:51:15 PM
Was it so widely public ???

Even the famous Karl Valentin wrote a play about her. ;)
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Bernardino on October 27, 2006, 02:52:43 PM
Very good topic this one  :)

For the first time I see a picture of the Saxon princes' teacher...and now I'm almost sure Anna was the King's daughter...

The only thing that made me doubt it before were her darkish looks among her so blond siblings...but at least this Giraud's picture is not a single bit conclusive to say he was her father...

I've seen some pictures of Anna smiling and it remebers me her paternal great-aunt Infanta Dona Antonia of Portugal, Fürstin of Hohenzollern...
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: MarieCharlotte on January 03, 2007, 04:25:43 PM

I think Friedrich August was quite shocked when Luisa left him, the children and the country. As he was a very pious man, he had never thought of a second marriage. I also can't remember reading something about another woman in his life. This is quite a pity, because he seemed to be a nice guy.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: José on February 27, 2007, 11:50:09 AM
I would like to know more about the three sisters of Margrave Maria-Emmanuel

1. Pss.Maria Josepha, b. 1928, unmarried and apparently with a daughter Marie-Christinne. (Who is the father ?)

2. Pss.Maria Anna, b. 1929, married Robert of Afif Gesaphe. She is the mother of the heir to the Saxony House, Alexander, and has two other sons Friederich-Wilhelm and Karl-August.

3. Pss.Mathilde, b. 1936, married (and div.) Pr. Johann Heinrich of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha. Their son Pr.Johann was at a time the heir to the Saxony House, but died in a mountain accident. Pr.Johann-Heinrich remmarried Pss. Gabriele of Furstenberg.

Please state your comments and post pictures/photos of these so discrete princesses and their families.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on February 27, 2007, 03:57:09 PM
Princess Maria Anna's husband, Robert Afif-Gessaphe , was the brother-in-law of Karl Anton of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen, the son of Maria Alix of Saxony and Franz Josef of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen. KA was married to Robert's sister Alexandra. So siblings marrying cousins. According to Allan Raymond's site, the Afif family were originally the Gessaphe family, a princely family from Lebanon.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on February 27, 2007, 04:01:09 PM
I would like to know more about the three sisters of Margrave Maria-Emmanuel

1. Pss.Maria Josepha, b. 1928, unmarried and apparently with a daughter Marie-Christinne. (Who is the father ?)


courtesy of royalty.nl

(http://www.royaltyguide.nl/images-families/wettin/saxonyalbert4/1928%20M.Josepha.JPG)

Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on February 27, 2007, 04:02:03 PM
Alexander de Afif Gessaphe courtesy of royalty.nl

(http://www.royaltyguide.nl/images-families/wettin/saxonyalbert4/1954%20Alexander.jpg)

Alexander has made a suitable royal marriage to Gisela of Bavaria. She is the daughter of Prince Rasso and Archduchess Theresa of Austria. The ADss is of the Tuscany line which the Saxony royal family comes from as well--Crown Princess Louise of Saxony being an Archduchess.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: dmitri on August 04, 2007, 06:24:58 AM
Crown Princess Luisa of Saxony was really interesting. The poor woman had to put up with a great deal. Her father-in-law was a total monster.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 05, 2007, 08:35:16 PM
To be honest...Luisa had sinned and sinned against. Shje was at least partly to blame for what happened to her. Sad thast there is no balanced book about her in English... :(
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: dmitri on August 05, 2007, 09:47:43 PM
Friedrich Augustus never remarried as he was a roman catholic and believed he was still married in the eyes of the church. As for Luisa, she was divorced by her father-in-law using his monarchical privelege. It is worth noting that he had threatened to place Luisa in an asylum. That was the reason Luisa fled Dresden. He really was a very nasty piece of work as was his daughter Mathilde. There were few tears when King Georg died and Friedrich Augustus became King. It is worth noting that Luisa was actually liked very much by King Albert of Saxony. It is also worth noting that none of her children ever spoke out against her. She has been greatly maligned without much evidence. If you read in German the autobiography of her son who became the owner of Schloss Moritzburg you will learn a lot about this. He was forced to flee with the Russians not far behind him.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 05, 2007, 11:48:45 PM
Should read the book about Luisa by her second husband Totelli. She comes out like a mad woman.  ::)
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: dmitri on August 06, 2007, 07:17:38 AM
Revenge makes a powerful enemy. They divorced remember?
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on August 06, 2007, 10:13:06 AM
To be honest...Luisa had sinned and sinned against. Shje was at least partly to blame for what happened to her. Sad thast there is no balanced book about her in English... :(

I agree. There was, however, a pretty good 2 or 3 part article on her some years ago in Royalty magazine if you can get your hands on it. It was the first I had ever read of her (mostly being interested in QV's family only until fairly recently) and she certainly was one of the more complex royal personages. I purchased some postcards of her and her family after reading about her.

I have some photos I haven't finished scanning yet of the Saxony royal family from some old magazines. There was a lot of public interest in the whole situation and a good deal of sympathy for the children caught in the middle. One interesting photo was of FA with Marie Pia as a toddler--it was supposed to be the first photo of the 2 together and it was rather an early candid photo (taken by a news photographer) of the 2 out walking together.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 06, 2007, 07:59:06 PM
I think there is a nice one of her in German. I saw it in Vienna a few years ago. Didn't go for it because it has very few photos.  :(
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on August 07, 2007, 08:28:59 AM
Judging by the 'expression' you made, I'm not sure if that was sarcastic or not. If it was, I'm sorry you misconstrued my attempt to be helpful. It was intended only to provide further information on one of those mentioned in this thread. It wouldn't be a 'reminder' for someone who didn't know the thread even existed. If you were thinking I was making an off-topic reminder, you were mistaken. When I do that, I actually say it.

And I'm not your 'dear'. That's rather condescending to fellow posters.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 08, 2007, 08:26:36 PM
Really depents how you look at it. If you see it as positive...it is positive, if you see it as negative it becomes that. I actually think that you are being helpful. The dear is meant to be a nice way of saying with famarity. That is why people open letters with dears. Your reaction says a lot what you think about what people write...friendly or sacastically. Anyway we are back to Saxony... ;)
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 09, 2007, 06:33:56 AM
Well people believe what they believe.  :) :) :) I hope that is sincerely enough. I am a fun person and may not be sensative enough for your sake. I do apologize if you felt slighted.

Anyway Ilove the photos you posted.  :)
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: dmitri on August 09, 2007, 08:03:07 AM
wonderful images .. thanks for those .. this was the King who really liked Crown Princess Louisa. If he had lived two years longer she would have been Queen of Saxony without any problems.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 09, 2007, 07:59:13 PM
I don't know about that. Luisa of Tuscany seemed like the kinda woman that gets into trouble.  ???
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: dmitri on August 09, 2007, 10:25:28 PM
The real problem was her vile father-in-law who nobody mourned on his death.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 10, 2007, 02:28:10 AM
Her flings did not seem to be so innocent as well. Her husband appears to be the innocent party.  :(
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: dmitri on August 10, 2007, 02:59:48 AM
Her 'flings' occurred after she was forced to leave Dresden. Her husband was hardly innocent as he did nothing to protect his wife against his father.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 11, 2007, 02:12:05 AM
Well...In her memoirs, the only good guy was her husband. She could have reconcilled with him after he became king.  ???
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: dmitri on August 11, 2007, 02:38:15 AM
She tried to and was prevented Eric.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 11, 2007, 11:40:04 PM
That was after the men...If only she remain chaste.  :(
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: dmitri on August 14, 2007, 03:17:49 AM
King Friedrich Augutus III was not terribly wise. He was afraid to stand up to his father and later his own ministers. He was not that inspiring and as a result his children lost their mother. Much rubbish has been written about Luisa. She deserves much better.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 14, 2007, 04:21:50 AM
Well...I think it is 50/50. Had Luisa been chaste and acted with decorum, her enemies would have no chance.  ???
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: dmitri on August 14, 2007, 07:01:24 AM
No this was not possible. Her enemies were out to destroy her. All the facts show it. Once she had been divorced the only one who could have reversed it was her husband and he had not interest in doing so and that was before any entanglements. Luisa appealed to him and was rejected. She was in fact turned away from Dresden in a rather cruel manner.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: palatine on August 14, 2007, 08:24:38 AM
It seems that there was an ugly incident in Luisa’s past that haunted her in more ways than one.


Henry Fischer, Secret Memoirs of Royal Saxony: The Story of Louise, Ex-Crown Princess:

“…the chaplain began to pay me a great deal of attention…He began to pat my hair, to give me friendly taps on the shoulder, and never took his eyes off me.  I was too young and innocent to see the true significance of his strange behavior, but I woke up suddenly and ran crying to my mother, telling her what had happened.  ‘I won’t take another lesson from that man, unless my lady-in-waiting is present,’ I sobbed.  ‘You are a malicious, lying, low-minded creature,’ hissed my mother, at the same time striking me in the face with her big diamonds.  ‘Its mortal sin to throw suspicion on so holy a man, and I will not have him watched.’….I took Leopold aside and told him everything.  He… rushed to mother’s room demanding protection for me.  ‘I will protect the holy man instead,’ answered my fanatic mother.  ‘Louise will be locked in the room with the chaplain while she has her lesson.’….Locked in a room with me, the chaplain was sweetness itself, but for a while at least remained at a distance.  When he attempted to approach me, I seized the burning kerosene lamp, as Leopold had advised.  ‘One step more,” I cried excitedly, ‘and I will throw the lamp in your face.’  The coward stood still in his tracks and began whispering to me in a hoarse voice things I hardly understood, but they nevertheless wounded me to the quick.  I kept my hand at the burning lamp during the whole hour and was ready to faint when the fiend at last left me.  As the door opened, I saw Leopold standing outside, an enormous dog whip in hand.  Without a word he applied the whip to the chaplain’s broad face, lashing him right and left.  The scoundrel offered no resistance, but fled like the dog he was, Leopold after him….lashing him as he ran…Only the fact that Leopold stumbled over a footstool, enabled the chaplain to reach his room alive, where he barricaded himself..." (pages 23-5)

According to Fischer, Leopold broke into the priest’s room and whipped him until he was “more dead than alive.”  Leopold’s mother found out what had happened and repeatedly struck Leopold.  For six weeks, she refused to speak to Leopold except to demand an apology for his conduct towards the priest.  Leopold’s father returned from wherever he’d been, told his wife to drop it, and forbade everyone from mentioning the incident ever again.  The priest was sent away as soon as he was well enough to travel.  (pages 30-2) 

Luisa’s favorite brother, Leopold Wolfling, wrote in From Archduke to Grocer that their mother “should have been a nun” (page 22).  He also said that she was aghast that neither he nor Luisa took the Catholic faith seriously and that this had horrible consequences:

“…When Luisa persisted in her determination not to go to Mass, she locked her up in a room alone with a priest in order that he might bring her to repentance…I happened to know that this priest...was a very bad priest indeed.  Although my mother was unaware of his real nature, I had actual proof that he was one of those foul, leprous creatures who use the cloak of Religion to cover their dark designs.... I lingered near the room where he was closeted with Luisa.  Some little time elapsed and then, surely enough, I heard a protesting scream....I at once threw my whole weight on the locked door, crashing it open and without more ado, I seized the vile hypocrite by the throat and hurled him down a stone staircase.  Then, picking him up, I flung him outside with a well-administered kick.  To recall so ugly an episode is to me like smearing this page with a horrible black blot, and I would refrain from mentioning it altogether if it were not that it had so far-reaching an effect on the future of both Luisa and me…”  (pages 24-5)

Luisa did not expressly confirm the story, but she hinted that there was truth to it.  In her autobiography, My Own Story, she wrote:

I have no wish to attack the priests, although I have suffered greatly at their hands.  There are many priests of the character that makes saints and martyrs, but there are others who take advantage of their calling to do and say things utterly abhorrent to good taste and decency, and many a young princess has to answer at confession questions which should not be asked.  Should she ever hint that she will complain of these personal questions, she is met with the threat that her confessor would in that event inform her parents that he had sorrowfully observed evidences of a perverted nature, which would make the convent the proper place for her.”  (page 40)

Luisa’s experience with the priest helps explain why she was a troubled woman.  It also helps explain why she hated authority figures in general and priests in particular; why she always looked upon Leopold, the black sheep of the family, as her champion; and why she seems to have looked upon anyone who took priests seriously, like her father-in-law, as an enemy and a hypocrite. 
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: dmitri on August 14, 2007, 08:28:00 AM
There is no doubt that her father-in-law was her enemy. He loathed her and was a sinister figure. He was the one who using his monarchical privilege divorced her from his son. It was quite disgusting. 
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 14, 2007, 08:04:44 PM
Well it takes two to tango. I agree that Luisa was a troubled woman. The priest thing is only one of her problems.  :o
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: dmitri on August 15, 2007, 12:51:33 AM
Her main problem was her twisted and embittered father-in-law. She never had any problems with his older brother who sadly died before his younger brother.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Svetabel on August 15, 2007, 02:09:39 AM
It seems that there was an ugly incident in Luisa’s past that haunted her in more ways than one.


Henry Fischer, Secret Memoirs of Royal Saxony: The Story of Louise, Ex-Crown Princess:

“…the chaplain began to pay me a great deal of attention…He began to pat my hair, to give me friendly taps on the shoulder, and never took his eyes off me.  I was too young and innocent to see the true significance of his strange behavior, but I woke up suddenly and ran crying to my mother, telling her what had happened.  ‘I won’t take another lesson from that man, unless my lady-in-waiting is present,’ I sobbed.  ‘You are a malicious, lying, low-minded creature,’ hissed my mother, at the same time striking me in the face with her big diamonds.  ‘Its mortal sin to throw suspicion on so holy a man, and I will not have him watched.’….I took Leopold aside and told him everything.  He… rushed to mother’s room demanding protection for me.  ‘I will protect the holy man instead,’ answered my fanatic mother.  ‘Louise will be locked in the room with the chaplain while she has her lesson.’….Locked in a room with me, the chaplain was sweetness itself, but for a while at least remained at a distance.  When he attempted to approach me, I seized the burning kerosene lamp, as Leopold had advised.  ‘One step more,” I cried excitedly, ‘and I will throw the lamp in your face.’  The coward stood still in his tracks and began whispering to me in a hoarse voice things I hardly understood, but they nevertheless wounded me to the quick.  I kept my hand at the burning lamp during the whole hour and was ready to faint when the fiend at last left me.  As the door opened, I saw Leopold standing outside, an enormous dog whip in hand.  Without a word he applied the whip to the chaplain’s broad face, lashing him right and left.  The scoundrel offered no resistance, but fled like the dog he was, Leopold after him….lashing him as he ran…Only the fact that Leopold stumbled over a footstool, enabled the chaplain to reach his room alive, where he barricaded himself..." (pages 23-5)

According to Fischer, Leopold broke into the priest’s room and whipped him until he was “more dead than alive.”  Leopold’s mother found out what had happened and repeatedly struck Leopold.  For six weeks, she refused to speak to Leopold except to demand an apology for his conduct towards the priest.  Leopold’s father returned from wherever he’d been, told his wife to drop it, and forbade everyone from mentioning the incident ever again.  The priest was sent away as soon as he was well enough to travel.  (pages 30-2) 

Luisa’s favorite brother, Leopold Wolfling, wrote in From Archduke to Grocer that their mother “should have been a nun” (page 22).  He also said that she was aghast that neither he nor Luisa took the Catholic faith seriously and that this had horrible consequences:

“…When Luisa persisted in her determination not to go to Mass, she locked her up in a room alone with a priest in order that he might bring her to repentance…I happened to know that this priest...was a very bad priest indeed.  Although my mother was unaware of his real nature, I had actual proof that he was one of those foul, leprous creatures who use the cloak of Religion to cover their dark designs.... I lingered near the room where he was closeted with Luisa.  Some little time elapsed and then, surely enough, I heard a protesting scream....I at once threw my whole weight on the locked door, crashing it open and without more ado, I seized the vile hypocrite by the throat and hurled him down a stone staircase.  Then, picking him up, I flung him outside with a well-administered kick.  To recall so ugly an episode is to me like smearing this page with a horrible black blot, and I would refrain from mentioning it altogether if it were not that it had so far-reaching an effect on the future of both Luisa and me…”  (pages 24-5)

Luisa did not expressly confirm the story, but she hinted that there was truth to it.  In her autobiography, My Own Story, she wrote:

I have no wish to attack the priests, although I have suffered greatly at their hands.  There are many priests of the character that makes saints and martyrs, but there are others who take advantage of their calling to do and say things utterly abhorrent to good taste and decency, and many a young princess has to answer at confession questions which should not be asked.  Should she ever hint that she will complain of these personal questions, she is met with the threat that her confessor would in that event inform her parents that he had sorrowfully observed evidences of a perverted nature, which would make the convent the proper place for her.”  (page 40)


Palatine, thanks for sharing quotes with us! Luise's personality always looks for me quite interesting - if the stories are true then her behavoiur during her life is getting more understandable.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: palatine on August 16, 2007, 08:43:30 AM
Palatine, thanks for sharing quotes with us! Luise's personality always looks for me quite interesting - if the stories are true then her behavoiur during her life is getting more understandable.

I’m glad that you liked them.  I too feel that the quotes, and the ugly story that they tell, go far to explain what made Luisa tick. 

I haven’t had the opportunity to read Luisa’s German biographies, but, if memory serves, some of the posters who frequent this board have done so.  If any of those posters can recall whether or not the story was discussed in those biographies, perhaps they could post here and let us know what was said about it.  Alas, I suspect that it might not have been mentioned or discussed.  Fischer (whose book was based on a diary of Luisa’s that she lost or more probably had stolen from her) said that Luisa’s father hushed the incident up, which means there probably wasn’t much (if any) evidence left about it.  Leopold confirmed that it was a verboten subject for their family and staff.   

If her biographers didn’t consult Fischer’s book or Leopold’s book, they might not have come across the story, since she merely hints at it in her autobiography.  Her hint is easy to miss unless you’ve read the other two books.  Her biographers might well have ignored Fischer's book since it was unauthorized and was evidently repudiated by Luisa herself.  Leopold spent more time talking about his adventures in a nudist colony than he did discussing his family in his book; it would be understandable if her biographers skimmed through it, missed the story, and decided that he didn't have any useful information to provide.   
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 17, 2007, 10:49:20 PM
Yes Luisa's last years were also unclear.  ???
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: dmitri on August 17, 2007, 11:15:16 PM
Well like many deposed royals she lived in a fair degree of obscurity.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 18, 2007, 12:09:44 AM
Although she created great havoc with her scandals and 2 divorces.  :)
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: dmitri on August 18, 2007, 02:44:21 AM
The first divorce was not something started by her or her husband. It was officially created by her evil father-in-law using his monarchical privilege. Neither his son or daughter-in-law requested the divorce so neither should be blamed for it. As for the second divorce that has nothing to do with the first. What was Luisa expected to do after she had been abandoned after her first divorce ... become a Nun? She was not to blame for the breakup of her first marriage at all.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 19, 2007, 12:17:32 AM
Do read Totelli's book on his marriage to Luisa. She came off like the Harpies from Hades.  :)
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: dmitri on August 19, 2007, 09:53:30 AM
and he sought revenge ... it is hardly a reliable source
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 19, 2007, 08:34:42 PM
I tend to think it had some gains of truth in it, Luisa was hardly a saint... >:(
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: dmitri on August 20, 2007, 09:42:10 PM
Luisa was a victim. I doubt anyone today would tolerate her father-in-law having the cheek to interfere in a marriage. He was the greatest sinner of all. Give Luisa a break. She deserved far better and was hardly the awful woman you wish to paint her. She was the mother of Saxon princes and princesses, none of whom ever came out and criticised her. Friedrich Augustus III never came out against her either. He was just not prepared to repair the damage his father had created due to personal weakness. Until the end of his life he still thought he was legally married to Luisa as he was under canon law. The fact that she remarried was not a sin. She soon realised the errors of her 2nd marriage and divorced the man. The fact that he couldn't cope and then wrote a book criticising her shows what a cad he was. She deserved much better from both of her husbands.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 20, 2007, 11:53:48 PM
Not really...I don't buy that Luisa was a snow white. She was a wild woman with passion unchecked. The fact that she lacked decorum was one of the main reasons for her failure. Unlike Louise of Belgium, who at least stood by her man though thick and thin.  :(
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: dmitri on August 21, 2007, 01:28:22 AM
Eric you need to do much wider reading on Louisa as you are very much mistaken.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 21, 2007, 05:41:44 AM
A lot of my friend did read German and came up with the same conclusion. Arturo Beeche also told me something along those lines...He should know since he write about Royalty ?  :o
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Svetabel on August 21, 2007, 06:06:11 AM
A lot of my friend did read German and came up with the same conclusion.

Do tell us about the sources, the German books I mean. Luise looks quite a complex woman , and learning a complex Royal person is more difficult than admiring perfect Royals.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 21, 2007, 06:19:30 AM
Well...I agree that she was complex...I just never heard Luisa spoken of as Snow White...almost.  ;)
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Svetabel on August 21, 2007, 06:28:04 AM
Well...I agree that she was complex...I just never heard Luisa spoken of as Snow White...almost.  ;)

Eric,  one more time - can you tell us about the German sources? I understand that Luise was not a Snow White and a Nun and The Pink of perfection, I just ask you about sources. Can you name them? Here's a discussion Forum not Having Fun section, we need facts and sources if speaking about complex persons.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: dmitri on August 21, 2007, 09:10:09 AM
Yes would be fascinated to know your sources Eric as I read German and have read what her family wrote about her and that was basically positive. Her 2nd husband doesn't count as he was clearly embittered. Luisa was hardly the whore of babylon as some would like to paint her.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: MarieCharlotte on August 21, 2007, 03:10:26 PM
Eric,  one more time - can you tell us about the German sources? I understand that Luise was not a Snow White and a Nun and The Pink of perfection, I just ask you about sources. Can you name them? Here's a discussion Forum not Having Fun section, we need facts and sources if speaking about complex persons.

In fact, there is only one German biography about Louise (Luise von Toscana. Skandal am Königshof. by Erika Bestenreiner). Louise also wrote her memoirs (in German, of course) which end at the time right after her second wedding.

I would also be interested in Eric's German sources as I don't know any books about Louise except these two ...
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: dmitri on August 21, 2007, 05:54:39 PM
exactly/genau
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 21, 2007, 08:02:39 PM
Welll...Marie Charlotte have you read the Tortelli book ?  ???
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Svetabel on August 22, 2007, 01:07:14 AM
Welll...have you read the Tortelli book ?  ???

Toselli you mean. And this your only source???..great.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: MarieCharlotte on August 22, 2007, 02:27:34 AM
Welll...Marie Charlotte have you read the Tortelli book ?  ???

Unfortunately I haven't read the book written by Toselli. What can you tell us about its content?
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 22, 2007, 03:29:48 AM
No I have other sources too. However I am just not satisfied that The Tortelli book being regarded as unreliable without closer inpection. I copied quite a great deal from a friend I can sent it to you (MarieCharlotte) for consideration.  :)
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Svetabel on August 22, 2007, 05:27:33 AM
No I have other sources too.

Are they so secret that you can't name them? Archives, some historians, what? Get me right I just want to know facts, not the hints on some mysteriuos sources.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Learning on August 22, 2007, 10:42:09 AM
I read that when King Friedrich August III was asked to abdicate he said, "Macht doch Eiern Dreck alleene!" Does that mean, "All power comes through an egg?" Also, was the revolution in Dresden violent or was it more or less peaceful? Thanks.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: MarieCharlotte on August 22, 2007, 11:16:57 AM
I read that when King Friedrich August III was asked to abdicate he said, "Macht doch Eiern Dreck alleene!" Does that mean, "All power comes through an egg?"

Hehe, that's funny. "Macht doch Eiern Dreck alleene!" seems to be Saxonian dialect. "Eiern" - which sounds quite familiar to my Bavarian ears - doesn't mean "eggs", but "your". I would translate Friedrich August's sentence this way: "Do whatever you want. I don't care anymore."
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 22, 2007, 08:07:56 PM
The second translation sounds more viable... ;D
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: dmitri on August 26, 2007, 12:22:40 AM
of course ... later when he was back on a private visit to Dresden people noticed him at the railway station and asked whether he would come back as King and he replied that they were funny sorts of republicans!
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 26, 2007, 09:51:56 PM
He may not have been a wise king, but he was a good man (even Luisa said so).  :)
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Learning on August 29, 2007, 11:43:14 AM
Have the Wettins had any success in reclaiming property in Saxony, such as Schloss Wachwitz and other residences?
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Yseult on June 25, 2008, 04:42:36 PM
More pics and info??

(http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm243/Gallaeciafulget/ElisabethHelenevonThurnundTaxis.jpg)

(Btw, I apologize if this has been posted yet a thousand times or more, I have made a quick research and I didn´t found anything, but this site is full of threads and maybe I failed doing my research...)
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Eurohistory on June 26, 2008, 09:33:59 AM
She is the grandmother of the present Heir to the Saxon Royal Family, himself married to a princess of Bavaria, Gisela.

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 27, 2008, 10:38:31 AM
Who were her parents ?
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: allanraymond on June 27, 2008, 03:26:57 PM
Eric

Prince Albert of Thurn and Taxis (8th Prince of Thurn and Taxis) (1867-1952) and Archduchess Margarethe of Austria (Hungarian Line) (1870-1955)

Allan Raymond

Who were her parents ?
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Svetabel on June 30, 2008, 02:19:03 PM
As a little girl

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/royals/Princess_Elisabeth-.jpg)

With her mother

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/royals/FurstinMargaretha_d-r.jpg)
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Yseult on June 30, 2008, 02:23:27 PM
I´m lost...was she related to the famous and "(in)famous" Luise von Tuscany? I mean...was her husband related to Luise?
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Svetabel on June 30, 2008, 02:26:25 PM
I´m lost...was she related to the famous and "(in)famous" Luise von Tuscany? I mean...was her husband related to Luise?

Her husband was Luise's son.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Rani on June 30, 2008, 05:48:29 PM



(http://img37.picoodle.com/img/img37/4/6/30/f_elisabeththm_703acd1.jpg)
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Yseult on July 10, 2008, 04:46:21 PM
Pleaseeeee...
If anyone of you have THIS picture of Luise in fancy dress, as queen Marie Antoinette, bigger/better quality, I would be grateful...

(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll205/EnaBatt/MISCELANEA/Luisefancy.jpg)
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Marc on July 11, 2008, 06:32:14 AM
Really looks beautiful...
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Mari on July 12, 2008, 05:47:36 AM
That is a wonderful photograph! What was the personality of Luise? Impulsive I take it?
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Svetabel on July 14, 2008, 12:50:05 PM
Pleaseeeee...
If anyone of you have THIS picture of Luise in fancy dress, as queen Marie Antoinette, bigger/better quality, I would be grateful...



(http://www.picatom.com/m/Crownprincess%20Luise_fancydress-1-th.JPG) (http://www.picatom.com/m/Crownprincess%20Luise_fancydress-1.html)
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: britt.25 on July 15, 2008, 01:48:41 AM
That really looks fascinating. Do you know, if this costume was worn for a special event or only for this photo...?

It's such a nice picture!!! Should it really represent queen Antoinette or is it a case that the dress is like that?
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Svetabel on July 15, 2008, 02:34:36 AM
That really looks fascinating. Do you know, if this costume was worn for a special event or only for this photo...?

It's such a nice picture!!! Should it really represent queen Antoinette or is it a case that the dress is like that?

I think that's a usual fancy dress, don't know though about was that a special event or no..
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: britt.25 on July 15, 2008, 04:41:57 AM
Yes, I think so as well, but someone said that it might be a Marie Antoinette representation...

In any case, wonderful, interesting picture, seems to be an old postcard? You own it?
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Svetabel on July 15, 2008, 04:48:16 AM
Yes, I think so as well, but someone said that it might be a Marie Antoinette representation...

In any case, wonderful, interesting picture, seems to be an old postcard? You own it?

Luise is really dressed in a costume of the Marie Antoinette period (1770-1780s) but I don't know the exact role of Luise in that fancy event.

I've found the card in I-net a  long ago.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Rani on October 10, 2008, 12:16:59 PM
Elisabeth & Friedrich

(http://i35.tinypic.com/ek5l49.jpg)
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Rani on January 23, 2009, 08:49:10 AM
With the sons of Mädi and their wives and children, and Friedrich Christian. And King Albert I guess. I don´t know other two men

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/DonaIsabella/4l58ug-1.jpg)
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Svetabel on January 25, 2009, 02:26:53 AM
With the sons of Mädi and their wives and children, and Friedrich Christian. And King Albert I guess. I don´t know other two men

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/DonaIsabella/4l58ug-1.jpg)

No Albert I in the picture. King Friedrich August with all his sons, his 2 daughters with their husbands and children, and daughetr-in-law.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Rani on March 16, 2009, 09:11:35 AM
The children of  King Friedrich August III.

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/DonaIsabella/279c3704.jpg)

Maria Alix and Margarete

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/DonaIsabella/2043ec1d.jpg)
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Adagietto on March 16, 2009, 03:20:58 PM
I like that picture of the two sisters very much. Here are the three of them:

(http://inlinethumb26.webshots.com/24857/2360545890100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

In mourning for their father:
(http://inlinethumb36.webshots.com/18467/2233020740100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

Anna Monica with father and husband:
(http://inlinethumb28.webshots.com/38811/2729236120100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

With her family:
(http://inlinethumb57.webshots.com/10424/2066976650100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: beladona on March 16, 2009, 04:41:01 PM
I don´t know if it was discused sooner, but is it known, why Ernst Heinrich and his wife Sophie of Luxemburg, choose such an unusual names for their sons as Dedo, Timo and Gero?
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 17, 2009, 02:12:36 PM
Thanks for the photos of Monica ! She did look a bit like her mother, but her actions were not so reactionary. Monica was generally believed not the true daughter of her father, but it seems he loved her as much as his other children.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Adagietto on March 17, 2009, 02:58:10 PM
Friedrich August was a good man; I have my doubts about his wife (I think I am right in saying that her marriage to her Italian singer didn't last a year).

I can add one or two more late photos of Anna Monica, who is something of a favourite of mine.
(http://inlinethumb16.webshots.com/41807/2780196750100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

(http://inlinethumb54.webshots.com/14773/2411446400100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

Her wedding, plenty of opportunity for hunting out obscure royalty here:
(http://inlinethumb04.webshots.com/11715/2150638370100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 17, 2009, 03:45:55 PM
Yes. Anna Monica had her mother's winning smile, but fortunately not her behavior.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on March 17, 2009, 05:31:44 PM
I don´t know if it was discused sooner, but is it known, why Ernst Heinrich and his wife Sophie of Luxemburg, choose such an unusual names for their sons as Dedo, Timo and Gero?

It's speculation as far as Gero but here's some info:

Gero I (c. 900 – 20 May 965), called the Great (Latin magnus), ruled an initially modest march centred on Merseburg, which he expanded into a vast territory named after him: the marca Geronis. During the mid-10th century, he was the leader of the Saxon Drang nach Osten.

Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 17, 2009, 05:49:49 PM
I think the late Nineteenth Century there came a revival of old names, especially in Germany.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: MarieCharlotte on March 19, 2009, 12:24:00 PM
I think the late Nineteenth Century there came a revival of old names, especially in Germany.

Timo is a common name in Germany, but Dedo and Gero are rather unusual. In the early 1920s the Germans' favourite names for babys were Hans, Karl, Heinz and Günther ...
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Veronica on March 19, 2009, 01:04:55 PM
"Dedo" is the spanish word for finger.
Unusual name certainly.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Adagietto on March 23, 2009, 04:53:04 PM
Dear old Albert:
(http://inlinethumb35.webshots.com/41314/2032405220100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

Friedrich August, with a twinkle in his eye as usual.
(http://inlinethumb10.webshots.com/43785/2414033500100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 24, 2009, 08:36:48 PM
He was a charming man, didn't know why Luisa of Tuscany found him boring ?
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Svetabel on March 25, 2009, 02:28:52 AM
He was a charming man, didn't know why Luisa of Tuscany found him boring ?

He looks charming in photos and this doesn't mean he was charming in private marital life. Did you know him personally? I guess not.

Luise had her own reasons.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Paola on March 25, 2009, 03:06:32 AM
He was a charming man, didn't know why Luisa of Tuscany found him boring ?

He looks charming in photos and this doesn't mean he was charming in private marital life. Did you know him personally? I guess not.

Luise had her own reasons.

Indeed! Louise experienced the inside life in the Saxon court and must had her reasons. For her at least her husband was not so charming and her father in law was not the "dear old Albert".
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Adagietto on March 25, 2009, 04:56:35 AM
Friedrich August was generally regarded as a kind and genial man who had a good sense of humour, it was not just a matter of how he looked in photographs  (though those in fact express something about his character, the appalling Georg actually looks rather unpleasant in photographs).
There is nothing more difficult than judging the state of marital relationships, and the causes of their failure, from second-hand reports. My view, for what it is worth, is that Friedrich August would have made a very reliable husband for the sort of woman who would have appreciated his qualities and enjoyed a quiet domestic life, and Luise was not that sort of woman. She was flighty (and, I suspect, highly-sexed and self-indulgent) and may well have found him dull. He was certainly an excellent and much-loved father, and in difficult circumstances too. As far as I know Albert got on very well with Luise. I am more inclined to feel sorry for Friedrich August than for Luise, who went to make a mess of her next marriage; if he had found the right wife he might have have had as happy a marriage as Ludwig III of Bavaria (another 'boring' man).
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 25, 2009, 02:02:15 PM
I agree. Even Luisa in her memoirs did not blame her husband for the failure of her marriage, she saved that bit for her father-in-law and ugly sister-in-law...
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: verikyno on March 25, 2009, 03:39:23 PM
I have a little story of Friedrich August which was told to me by a neighbor here in the US.  He fled with his family from Saxony at the end of world war II and settled in our little german community.  He told me that he did not like the King of Saxony,  I asked him why and he told me that FA liked to imbibe and was always late............this caused the death of the my neighbors father............according to him, his father was a captain of the guard who had to wait with his men at a train station for the king to arrive.  The troops, including the captain were dressed in full parade uniforms, and had to stand outside the station in very cold weather.  On this occasion, the King was several hours late, and the captain caught pneumonia and died shortly after.  Sadly, my neighbor passed away some years ago of the same thing ... although he was in his 80's then.  He had many pictures of his family in military uniforms and even pictures of Dresden and Chemnitz before world war 2.  He also had many other stories, which escape me now..........
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: beladona on March 25, 2009, 05:22:42 PM
"Dedo" is the spanish word for finger.
Unusual name certainly.

Any pictures of these "strange named" brothers Dedo, Timo and Gero?
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on March 25, 2009, 06:14:43 PM
Perhaps in the Luxemburg sisters thread because of their mother?
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Jose II on March 26, 2009, 12:44:26 PM

Her wedding, plenty of opportunity for hunting out obscure royalty here:
(http://inlinethumb04.webshots.com/11715/2150638370100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

Not that obscure:
The German Crown prince stands behind the bride while his wife Pss. Cecily is on the same row behind a priest.
Who will find more ?
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Jose II on March 26, 2009, 12:53:21 PM
"Dedo" is the spanish word for finger.
Unusual name certainly.

Any pictures of these "strange named" brothers Dedo, Timo and Gero?


Timo:
http://www.geneall.net/D/per_page.php?id=36886

BTW "Dedo" is also "finger" in portuguese ;-)
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Paul on March 28, 2009, 02:03:01 AM
Wasn't Gero a 9th or 10th century Saxon warlord? If memory serves, he was the commander who wrestled the land that became Upper Saxony from the Sorbs.

Timo rings a bell, in the same context, but 'haven't had time to dig around. 
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Paul on March 28, 2009, 02:20:35 AM
The only Timo that I can dig up at the moment was a Count Timo of Colditz. He lived in the late 1200's. He seems to have been connected, somehow, to the Salian or Saxony dynasty (Holy Roman Emperors). Other descendants married into the House of Anhalt & the House of Brunswick.

Interesting: at the end of the Saxon monarchy, the family reached back toward the beginning for names.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Rani on April 15, 2009, 09:11:32 AM
Luisa

(http://i42.tinypic.com/2wgbod0.jpg)
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Adagietto on April 15, 2009, 09:52:08 AM
Nice card, showing her as more cheerful than usual, though still rather coarse.

(http://inlinethumb11.webshots.com/41802/2748861830100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: beladona on April 16, 2009, 02:35:41 PM
i have found one picture of Elisabeth Thurn und Taxis, wife of Friedrich Christian of Saxony, in her later years..
(http://www.geneall.net/img/pessoas/pes_15601.jpg)
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Rani on April 27, 2009, 03:33:38 PM
(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/DonaIsabella/anna1903-1976.jpg)

Anna of Sachsen (1903-1976)
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Rani on May 31, 2009, 12:05:04 PM
I´ve just realized that Ferfried von Hohenzollern is the grand-grand-nephew of Mathilde Trani :))

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/DonaIsabella/Foto1050.jpg)


Franz Joseph and Maria Alix
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: MarieCharlotte on June 11, 2009, 06:19:15 PM
I´ve just realized that Ferfried von Hohenzollern is the grand-grand-nephew of Mathilde Trani :))

No, Foffi is Mathilde's great-grandson ...

Mathilde > Maria Theresia > Friedrich Victor > Ferfried
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Rani on June 12, 2009, 10:43:25 AM
:) My fault. Anyway it´s odd.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Rani on October 15, 2009, 10:45:00 AM
It´s strange

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/DonaIsabella/2168054807_e5cc8551c4.jpg)

This is Monika, Princess of Sachsen. She looks like the princess of Sachsen on this old painting.

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/DonaIsabella/8705-a-princess-of-saxony-lucas-the.jpg)
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: gogm on October 16, 2009, 06:45:55 PM
Is this painting by Lucas Cranach the elder? It looks like one of his...
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Rani on October 17, 2009, 07:36:26 AM
yes, it´s from Lucas
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 18, 2009, 03:39:15 PM
Very lovely . But Monika had not any Saxon blood...
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: CountessKate on October 21, 2009, 04:19:29 AM
In fact her mother Luise of Tuscany's great-grandmother was Maria Ferdinanda of Saxony, the sister of King Johann I of Saxony who was the grandfather of Luise's first husband Frederick August of Saxony.   So Monika still descended from the royal house of Saxony, even if you discount Frederick August.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on October 21, 2009, 10:35:44 PM
Was it ever decided that there was no chance that she was Frederick August's child? Or is that supposition based on Luise's behavior before, during and after her pregnancy?
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: trentk80 on October 24, 2009, 09:46:13 AM
In fact her mother Luise of Tuscany's great-grandmother was Maria Ferdinanda of Saxony, the sister of King Johann I of Saxony who was the grandfather of Luise's first husband Frederick August of Saxony.   So Monika still descended from the royal house of Saxony, even if you discount Frederick August.

Maria Ferdinanda of Saxony, the second wife of Grand Duke Ferdinand III of Tuscany, was childless. It was his first wife, Louise of Naples, who gave him children and was the great-grandmother of Louise.

Was it ever decided that there was no chance that she was Frederick August's child? Or is that supposition based on Luise's behavior before, during and after her pregnancy?

I was wondering the same. In any case, I guess most people didn't regard Monika as Frederick August's child, whether she was or not.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: CountessKate on October 26, 2009, 08:41:55 AM
Quote
Maria Ferdinanda of Saxony, the second wife of Grand Duke Ferdinand III of Tuscany, was childless. It was his first wife, Louise of Naples, who gave him children and was the great-grandmother of Louise.

Thank you for correcting me Trentk80 - there were many intermarriages between the Saxons and the Habsburgs of Tuscany that I became derailed!  In fact most of them seemed to produce no children but were probably the reason why the marriage was arranged in the first place, because of the previous family connections.  But I note that Louise of Naples' grandmother was Maria Amalia of Saxony, so there is a Saxon connection although a bit further back.

However, the 'princess of saxony' in Cranach's painting is thought to be Elizabeth of Hesse, the future wife of Johann Duke of Saxony, who died childless.  So she might not have been a Saxon either!
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: HerrKaiser on November 23, 2009, 12:00:29 AM
here is a recent photo of the Wettin city palace in Dresden.

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a111/eurochief/L1020135.jpg)
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: HerrKaiser on November 23, 2009, 11:06:37 AM
The building, today, is a museum, housing several worthwhile displays of very interesting pieces of art and artifacts. This palace was mostly destroyed in the bombing, but the exterior has been carefully restored. the interior spaces were created for museum needs and crowd movement. It was done very nicely and the result is a wonderful focal point of the AltStadt.

Restored palaces can become a dime-a-dozen if they are simply used to show how their royal occupants once live. Bedrooms, dining rooms, art galleries, throne rooms, etc all become very much alike. The mixed-use concept seems to work well, I think, and while maintaining the historic appearance of the exterior, it's a win win for all concerned.

Nice post cards! Note the Taschenbergpalais on the far right. This was a lovely palace for Augustus' mistress. Completely destroyed in 1945, it is not rebuilt with original exteriors but a modern and wonderful hotel inside. Here's the Taschenberg today in the background with the royal palace on the left:

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a111/eurochief/11-6-2005-28.jpg)
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Adagietto on November 23, 2009, 05:25:43 PM
Yes, thank you.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 23, 2009, 05:43:04 PM
It is nice to know that not all the palaces were destroyed.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: HerrKaiser on November 23, 2009, 06:41:40 PM
It is nice to know that not all the palaces were destroyed.

Pretty much they were if they were in any major urban location. The ones we are talking about here were ruined; then rebuilt.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: José on February 28, 2010, 11:52:02 AM
(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/DonaIsabella/anna1903-1976.jpg)

Anna of Sachsen (1903-1976)

Can someone post any photos of Ana Monika second husband Reginald Kazanjan, with or w/o her ?
And a couple of lines on Reginald, please.
Who was he, how did they meet, etc.

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Naslednik Norvezhskiy on March 14, 2010, 06:11:32 PM
I've enjoyed this thread immensely, because so little is known about the 19th-century Saxon RF besides the scandal surrounding Crown Princess Luise, because they neither were part of the Queen Victoria/Glücksborg clan nor produced such celebrities as the Habsburgs and Wittelsbachs.

The dynasty was increasingly unpopular in the nineteenth century. The Catholicism of the ruling house (the people were mostly protestants) may have been a factor.
Did this perhaps lead to them surrounding themselves with more exclusive, old, imperial nobility, which often was Catholic, instead of possibly more liberal Protestant "meritocrats" ennobled through state service?

I guess also the fact that Saxony was the second most heavily industrialized area in the German Empire (after Prussia's Ruhr Area) and thus the cradle of a very strong Socialist movement (of course very much celebrated in the GDR (DDR)) also led to increasing alienation between RF and subjects. Plus that instead of increasing the franchise, like the liberal medium-sized German states, they went reactionary and adopted the Prussian model.

The personal union with Poland was never a success. The partners were too different. The Wettiner persisted in this dream however, even after Poland had ceased to exist. It was one of the reasons Frederick Augustus I supported Napoleon, which led to an embarassing and bloody defeat at the Battle of Leipzig in 1813, followed by the loss of half of Saxony's territory.

This is so shocking in the age when the other main dynasties increased their territory so much through secularisation and mediasation!
I also guess that the fact that the elevation of the old electorate to a kingdom was mired with that huge defeat also can explain why the Saxon RF with their treasure trove of jewels in the Green Vault, never bothered to acquire new royal regalia (besides the old Polish ones they already possessed) like the other new-minted sovereigns of Bavaria, Württemberg, Baden (and later, when they no longer were in personal union with the UK, also) Hanover.

If Saxony was not to be destroyed (saved only by Metternich), do you think it would have received the lands of the Ernestine branch and the other Thuringian duchies and principalities as mediatized territories?

Is anything known about how this loss affected the Saxon RF in the long run, for example their attitude towards Prussia? I can't believe they risked it all once more by supporting Austria in 1866!
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Glastonbury on April 13, 2010, 03:43:20 AM
Hello,

Does anyone know how I might contact HRH the Margrave Maria Emanuel of Saxony? I am writing a book about royal opposition to Hitler and should like to send him a couple of questions by way of interview if possible.

Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Alexander1917 on April 13, 2010, 07:31:46 AM
The building, today, is a museum, housing several worthwhile displays of very interesting pieces of art and artifacts. This palace was mostly destroyed in the bombing, but the exterior has been carefully restored. the interior spaces were created for museum needs and crowd movement. It was done very nicely and the result is a wonderful focal point of the AltStadt.

Restored palaces can become a dime-a-dozen if they are simply used to show how their royal occupants once live. Bedrooms, dining rooms, art galleries, throne rooms, etc all become very much alike. The mixed-use concept seems to work well, I think, and while maintaining the historic appearance of the exterior, it's a win win for all concerned.

Nice post cards! Note the Taschenbergpalais on the far right. This was a lovely palace for Augustus' mistress. Completely destroyed in 1945, it is not rebuilt with original exteriors but a modern and wonderful hotel inside. Here's the Taschenberg today in the background with the royal palace on the left:

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a111/eurochief/11-6-2005-28.jpg)


The facades are all restored now. in the next years they will redecorate the state and semi-state rooms of the Castle. f.e. this years opend the "English Staircase". The museum part contains also the historic rooms (in historic manor) of the Green Vault. After the restauration there will be nearly 50 per cent of hirstoric rooms restaurated.

The Taschenberg Palais is rebulit, but with small varioations on the facades (f. e. without the arms on the roof base)... the inside also have some restaured rooms, stairs and so on.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Rani on May 22, 2010, 01:41:58 PM
More pics and info??

(http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm243/Gallaeciafulget/ElisabethHelenevonThurnundTaxis.jpg)

(Btw, I apologize if this has been posted yet a thousand times or more, I have made a quick research and I didn´t found anything, but this site is full of threads and maybe I failed doing my research...)

Is she wearing a Shield of David?
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Marc on May 23, 2010, 09:49:46 PM
It seems so...you have noticed this very well!
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: MarieCharlotte on June 01, 2010, 02:21:49 AM
Hello,
Does anyone know how I might contact HRH the Margrave Maria Emanuel of Saxony? I am writing a book about royal opposition to Hitler and should like to send him a couple of questions by way of interview if possible.

Maria Emanuel's younger brother Albert has a website. Maybe you could ask him.

Link: http://www.prinz-albert-von-sachsen.de/index2.html (http://www.prinz-albert-von-sachsen.de/index2.html)
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 26, 2010, 03:12:11 PM
How horrible ! Albert looked like his uncle the second last king of Saxony.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Rani on June 26, 2010, 03:21:01 PM
For Miguel II. it must be really awful. His other son was involved in scandals, too. Just Maria Teresa was carefree (but the poor woman lost a daughter and a son early).
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: MarieCharlotte on June 26, 2010, 05:23:28 PM
How horrible ! Albert looked like his uncle the second last king of Saxony.

The "second last king of Saxony" was Albert's father Georg.

Johann > Albert > Georg > Friedrich August III.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: elselucasrobinson on July 11, 2010, 12:24:56 AM
Hi I am elselucasrobinson. I have pitures of Timo and Margrit's wedding.Margrit was beautiful. I will not post them yet, Thinking about writing about this tragic marriage but not sure. Iris and Rudiger are my first cousins.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: elselucasrobinson on July 11, 2010, 01:01:48 AM
Hi there (Reply to Cimbrio re morganatic marriage of Georg TIMO to Margrit Lucas.) Why is there all the Kaffuffle about equal marriages still?. Beautiful Margrit died when only 26 years old.She was a faithful wife and mother and certainly the LUCAS family had noble virtues. (Lucas means "of light" by the way) My mother (Irmgard)told me that when she was little, their father Karl gave them  small packages of food to hide in  specific places in the forest for Jewish people to pick up. Certainly,had Margrit lived, she would have been accepted as a princess. (Note that currently Mary Princess of Denmark though morganatically married has rightly had a title conferred on her.) In my most humble and politically ignorant place I must say that if a Prince finds a woman worthy of marrying then surely, that  woman at his side, is worthy of title? Margrit  was of noble character. Certainly Rudiger is of true blood line and should in my opinion regardless of any history still hold the "next in line position" for the fact of being born to the last successor. There are those of you who say well he has a "chequered past". I would say to that...there are few people on the planet that have the right to cast stones and I still hold hope that this family (part of my own) will shine as they recover those things that have been previously ripped from them. I am thinking about if my mum died when I was so young and I lost my father too through grief and depression and then finding out that my family in fact had to flee for their life. I also believe that power and finance are not given for personal prestige and glory but for doing good. Wait...their story is not finished yet... bless ya
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Rani on July 11, 2010, 08:47:20 AM
Interesting. It´s quite sad, that Maria Emanuel didn´t changed the rules, so that Rüdiger could be the successor. But it were Timos brothers Dedo, Gero and Prince Albert who decided with Maria that Alexander Afif will be the next successor.
You can not compare the Danish royal dynasty with the German dynasties. The German dynasties have a problem with their identity. I think they are ludicrous. Because they can´t distinguish between children from a marriage between a king´s son and a commoner, and the adoption of very odd people like ZsaZsa Gabors husband and his much more weird adopted sons. :)



Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Rani on July 12, 2010, 05:46:28 PM
(http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad313/Isana1988/PrinceTimoofSaxony1923-1982andMargi.jpg)

Timo and Margit
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Svetabel on July 12, 2010, 11:17:16 PM


Timo and Margit

They are not Timo and Margit. The photo is from 1920s when Timo was a child.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 13, 2010, 12:01:39 AM
Who are they then ?
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Rani on July 13, 2010, 08:01:43 AM
http://www.geneall.net/D/per_page.php?id=36886
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Svetabel on July 13, 2010, 11:20:44 PM
Who are they then ?

If I knew I'd say who are they. I said they were not Timo and Margit.

The photo of them had been posted at another Royal Forum - Royal Weddings message board I think.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 13, 2010, 11:50:33 PM
You mean this photo or a photo of the real Timo & Margit ? Do make that clear.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Svetabel on July 14, 2010, 12:33:26 AM
You mean this photo or a photo of the real Timo & Margit ? Do make that clear.

I quoted your post about question of those "Timo and Margit" posted by Rani. Do pay attention.

Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 14, 2010, 12:46:47 AM
I still do not know if you are referring to that photo or another one of Timo & Margit has been posted in the forum. If so can you referr to it specifically  ?
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Svetabel on July 14, 2010, 03:57:18 AM
I still do not know if you are referring to that photo or another one of Timo & Margit has been posted in the forum. If so can you referr to it specifically  ?

Photo of real Timo and Margit had been posted at another Royal Forum. I saved it but had no intention to post it here.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Rani on July 14, 2010, 05:09:58 AM
Thanks Svetabel! But the ears of the man confused me :) Sophie sons had really big ears. And the man on the photo looks like him, and I thought it must be him.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: elselucasrobinson on July 14, 2010, 06:38:59 AM
Rani, Margrit (not Margit) was blonde (albeit it bottle enhanced)and was beautful and that is definitely not Ti mo! I am hoping to go to Germany soon to visit some of my relatives. Gisela and Irmgard,who preferred to be called Else, (her last of four middle names) were her two sisters and Karl Heinz ( a musician) and Gerhard (who is still alive ) were her two brothers. There now I've given a lot away! Do any of you live inGermany in the Saxony area?
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: kmerov on July 17, 2010, 06:35:49 AM
As I understand it, there are no more "equal" born members of the Saxon Royal House besides the Margrave of Meissen and Prince Albert? The rest are all from morganatic unions?
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: elselucasrobinson on July 18, 2010, 02:42:47 AM
I understand from the Rules of Saxon Royal Lineage that the only reason a morganatic marriage was not allowed was because the ruler at the time would not accept or give title. It was not always a forgone unalterable conclusion. Margrit died too young for anyone to have formally raised her status. (ie a gift of title as in other royal houses) I am trying to follow the Lucas lineage because Lucas spelt with a C is not German but French and my mother's family also had to flee because they were apparently quite well off in East Germany. Karl was a butcher in  the West- I am not so sure about his life and occupation in the East. My mother remembered fleeing with handfuls of coins in her little coat as i guess they all did... and I'm not sure of the truth about  my mother having servants as a child or not . Sometimes childhood memories can be skewed but I tend to believe her last three years  divulging her life. Rivetting stuff for me and I would love to know her history more fully. I also have a photo of an elderly couple with what looks like a Tiara on the woman's head. That couple in particular look very regal. From what they are wearing in the photo it looks to have been taken on Timo and Margrit's wedding day.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Learning on November 05, 2010, 02:36:40 PM
Did the Saxon royals get any of their property back after reunification?
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Pezzazz on November 16, 2010, 02:31:18 PM
Finished reading "My Own Story" by Louise of Tuscany who became the crown princess of Saxony.  It's a sad story and one can just feel the cruel wheels of destiny turning against her and there was nothing she could do about it.   It seemed to start since like some of her Habsburgs relatives, she couldn't get with the program -- she had to express her own personality even if it was against all court protocols since she felt like she would lose herself otherwise.

As a result, she inspired strong hate by some Saxons, including her father-in-law and some of his ministers.  Then being a smart woman, she became paranoid -- perhaps with good reason, but she claimed her father-in-law told her he was going to put her away forever in an insane asylum and that was what she feared  more than anything.  So she escaped by herself, alone.  She didn't run off with Giron or any other man.

It was Louise's brother Leopold that helped her to escape -- possibly because he knew how real the threat was in those days among royals who had become a "nuisance" to be locked up forever in the living death of some asylum.   He was locked up in one himself by Franz Joseph for about a month before he was able to manipulate himself out.   However, Leopold told his sister that he would have limited ability to keep rescuing her since he was sure she would go back to Dresden and then she'd be locked up.  So the paranoid Louise said she insured this would never happen by compromising her reputation beyond repair by asking Giron the teacher to come stay with her for a few weeks.

On another note, I doubt the Saxon court would have been so determined to take custody of Monica if they had any suspicion she was not the king's daughter.

But as Leopold predicted, it eventually happened.  Several years after Louise wrote her book, at the start of WWI, her husband, King Frederick Augustus offered her one of his castles in Saxony, Louise agreed and as soon as she crossed the German border, she was arrested by Wilhelm II, put in an insane asylum and never heard from again as far as I know?  

Louise only described her husband as weak but good, but I wonder if she was being too kind?

Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: prinzheinelgirl on November 16, 2010, 07:59:32 PM
Finished reading "My Own Story" by Louise of Tuscany who became the crown princess of Saxony.  It's a sad story and one can just feel the cruel wheels of destiny turning against her and there was nothing she could do about it.   It seemed to start since like some of her Habsburgs relatives, she couldn't get with the program -- she had to express her own personality even if it was against all court protocols since she felt like she would lose herself otherwise.

As a result, she inspired strong hate by some Saxons, including her father-in-law and some of his ministers.  Then being a smart woman, she became paranoid -- perhaps with good reason, but she claimed her father-in-law told her he was going to put her away forever in an insane asylum and that was what she feared  more than anything.  So she escaped by herself, alone.  She didn't run off with Giron or any other man.

Thanks for the summary, Pezzazz! I have always been interested in Louise of Tuscany and haven't read her autobiography yet.  Didn't she liken herself to Marie Antoinette in France? I'm interested in her parallelism with MA, although I very much disagree, in the case of Marie Antoinette, that her flouting of etiquette was the main source of conflict and that she couldn't do anything about her problems in France due to destiny . Also, it seems that Louise was much smarter than MA, in recognising early on the danger her enemies could do....  

Incidentally, I think said book also features Maria Anna of Saxony (born 1799) and perhaps her older sister Maria Ferdinanda of Saxony (born 1794) as well? If it does, I'd very much appreciate if you could post what it says about them.   :)  
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Svetabel on November 17, 2010, 12:54:03 AM



It was Louise's brother Leopold that helped her to escape -- possibly because he knew how real the threat was in those days among royals who had become a "nuisance" to be locked up forever in the living death of some asylum.   He was locked up in one himself by Franz Joseph for about a month before he was able to manipulate himself out.   However, Leopold told his sister that he would have limited ability to keep rescuing her since he was sure she would go back to Dresden and then she'd be locked up.  So the paranoid Louise said she insured this would never happen by compromising her reputation beyond repair by asking Giron the teacher to come stay with her for a few weeks.

On another note, I doubt the Saxon court would have been so determined to take custody of Monica if they had any suspicion she was not the king's daughter.




Leopold had his own reasons to help his sister. He secretly married his lover just after Luise's escape.

I said before in other topic that Luise described the Saxon Royal family as a team of total freaks. Only her husband was reported favourably. She really sounds as a paranoid sometimes speaking about her grievances.

She didn't end her life in an asylim, she kept low profile living in Brussels.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Kalafrana on November 17, 2010, 06:46:18 AM
Did the 'total freaks' include Luise's three sons? They sound rather pleasant.

Ann
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Pezzazz on November 17, 2010, 08:50:52 AM

I said before in other topic that Luise described the Saxon Royal family as a team of total freaks. Only her husband was reported favourably. She really sounds as a paranoid sometimes speaking about her grievances.


I also just finished "My Own Story" by Louise of Coburg and there is a striking similarity of the clear presence of the wheels of destiny turning for both women.  They both had strong character defects in that Louise of Coburg was a narcissist (she described her own children as human vultures), and Louise of Saxony was a bigot (everyone else was freaks).  This led to a fear on their part, a fear of persecution, perhaps because they were persecuted.  I do hope they found some peace and resolution in their latter years since they both suffered far more than the usual.


Leopold had his own reasons to help his sister. He secretly married his lover just after Luise's escape.


I don't believe Leopold was looking for any such cover for his own activities since he'd always been protective of his younger sister.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Svetabel on November 17, 2010, 09:27:12 AM
Did the 'total freaks' include Luise's three sons? They sound rather pleasant.

Ann

I didn't mean her chidren, only father-in-law, sister-in-law and brother-in-law.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Svetabel on November 17, 2010, 09:29:54 AM


I don't believe Leopold was looking for any such cover for his own activities since he'd always been protective of his younger sister.

But he did marry his lover Wilhelmine Adamovic just after Luise's escape. Helping the sister Leopold  at the same time settled his own matters, that's a fact. Both siblings were rebels in the family.


As for Louise of Coburg book...dull reading actually, but a sad life anyway.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: capttrips on November 18, 2010, 09:24:45 PM
Louis story is interesting, and I will read this autobiography, but, Why does the King always get the bad name for wanting to throw a wanton daughter in the nunnery?  Or did I miss something?

The King sounds like a stand up guy for trying to lock her up--or mad as a hatter.

At least, he did not drown her in a bathtub at birth, or throw her in the Chicago River during the 1920s, in America.

I recall a few New York Times articles about this: I will search for these.  As I recall, her tutor escaped to America, but I must double check.

I am so sorry to hear things ended so very baddly for all my dopplegangers and presumed kinsmen in Saxony.

Did Saint Louis of Mecklinburg-Sterlitz write an Autobiography?  Were these autobiographies a court custom?
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: capttrips on November 18, 2010, 11:20:13 PM
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F50915FE3C5A17738DDDAA0994D8415B878CF1D3

I will find more, but cannot find them right now.  Google is being non-compliant.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: capttrips on November 20, 2010, 05:12:16 PM
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F20612F63C5F12738DDDAB0A94DE405B828CF1D3
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F60A14FB3F55107A93C3AA178CD85F4D8784F9
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F10A10F639541B728DDDA00A94D1405B848CF1D3
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=FA071FFF3A5D11738DDDA80894DD405B8885F0D3

The above, although not about Louis, are still interesting.

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=FB091FFB385412738DDDA90A94DE405B828CF1D3  King Albert's Obituary
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F50E15F8385412738DDDA80A94DE405B828CF1D3  Dressden One Day Later
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9401E1D61F3AE733A25756C1A9669D946597D6CF  King Georg's Obituary
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F50D11FA3C5A15738DDDAE0994DA415B878CF1D3  Queen Carola's Obituary

The above, although not about Louis, are still interesting.

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F60712F7355F13718DDDAA0A94D8415B848CF1D3  Oct. 23, 1904
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F00712FE3D5912738DDDAF0A94D8415B848CF1D3  Oct. 26, 1904
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F40D1FFE385E12738DDDA80894D9405B858CF1D3   Jan. 1, 1905
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=FA0E12F63D5912738DDDAA0994DA405B858CF1D3  Feb. 15, 1905
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F60E1EFF3E5D12738DDDAB0994DD405B878CF1D3   May 12, 1907
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=FB061FFB3C5512738DDDAA0894DF405B878CF1D3   Jul. 3, 1907
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F50917FF3A5A15738DDDAB0A94DA415B878CF1D3  Dec. 22, 1907
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F3061FF83C5A17738DDDAB0894DA405B888CF1D3   Feb. 2, 1908
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F70E1FFE3D5517738DDDA10894DC405B888CF1D3   Monica goes home, Apr. 8, 1908
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F20611FE3D5411738DDDA10894D8415B808EF1D3   Louis sues Ticolli Oct. 8, 1920

The above are all about this Louis, but below are my absolute favourites, suggesting the King should convert to Lutheranism, and summoning his Jesuit brother to Rome to explain, Why he is in favour of reconcilliation with the Orthadox Church.

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F10813FF345A17738DDDA90A94D8415B878CF1D3  Oct. 20, 1907
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F00C13FD385D11738DDDAE0A94DA415B808DF1D3  Dec. 27, 1910

I hope in some small way, this contributes to the forum: Or rather, I hope you would not have thought to look to the NY Times for such information.  There is much more, about many German topics, but it can be overwhelming to search for it.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Pezzazz on November 21, 2010, 12:13:52 PM
Thank you capttrips for all the interesting links -- it's nice the NYT still has a searchable database.

One link I noticed in particular was:

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F20611FE3D5411738DDDA10894D8415B808EF1D3   Oct. 8, 1920

"Louise of Saxony Sues Musician Husband, says he spent money intended for son"

This article implies the young son of Louise and Ticolli was raised by his paternal grandmother.   Why couldn't Louise at least raise her last child?  
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: HerrKaiser on November 22, 2010, 08:57:09 AM
A good guess is that Louise was obviously a renigade royal who had few commitments to relationships or family. A woman of that style and temperment, particularly at the turn of the last century, was hardling considered a fit mother.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Pezzazz on November 22, 2010, 12:17:44 PM
Here's a sad story about the bitter enemy of Louise, her sister-in-law, Matilde: 

"The Elopement that Failed"  pg 153
http://tinyurl.com/325nfb2


Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Svetabel on November 22, 2010, 10:06:31 PM


This article implies the young son of Louise and Ticolli was raised by his paternal grandmother.   Why couldn't Louise at least raise her last child?  

Toselli won by court their son Filiberto as they had separated badly. Toselli was very possessive husband and constantly blamed Luisa in different flirts and adulteries. He did his best to win Filiberto from Luisa. And her reputation certainly didn't help her.
But anyway since the 1920s she got along very well with Filiberto.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: José on December 28, 2010, 03:04:22 PM
Has someone got any pictures of Pss Maria-Anna and her lebanese husband Robert of Afif-Gesaphe ?

I am also looking for pictures of Virginia Dulon, Pss Ernst-Heinrich, and of Charlotte Schwindack, Pss.Timo, as well as Pr. Rudiger's wives, Astrid Linke and Diana Dorndorf.

Thanks in advance
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Marie Valerie on January 03, 2011, 12:12:24 PM
I always thought that King Friedrich August III. von Sachsen was a good hearted man, but not to all of his subjects:



Begging the King’s Pardon

Grete A young woman tires of her lover’s affections and arranges to terminate them in a most conclusive manner. This is an old story, older than Delilah, and yet periodically throughout history, a femme fatale sets herself apart from the rest and secures ignominy that long outlasts her.

Marie Margarete “Grete” Beier was one such. She met all the most important criteria for world-wide infamy as a murderess—namely, she was young, lovely, promiscuous, and from a good family–her father was the mayor of Freiburg, Saxony. Her victim, too, was well-to-do, a young professional named Pressler. At her trial, the young girl would admit, “with simplicity,” that she poisoned her fiancé with cyanide of potassium before guaranteeing his death by putting his own pistol in his mouth and pulling the trigger. She then planted in his rooms a fake suicide note; a will leaving his assets to Grete; and a forged letter from a supposed Italian wife threatening to ruin his relationship with Grete via a charge of bigamy.

Alas, Grete was naïve to the science of handwriting examination, which tripped her up. Her diabolical, nearly perfect plot to acquire Pressler’s assets while ridding herself of the nuisance of Pressler himself shocked the authorities. She was found guilty of murder and sentenced to die.

But those same authorities had developed tender feelings for poor Grete, who was, after all, only 22, and had acted under the influence of another lover who had lacked her father’s approval. It was thought that this young girl was only partly responsible and as much a victim as poor Pressler. The jury recommended leniency. The judges asked for grace, pointing out that she was a nymphomaniac, a mitigating fact in their minds. But the question of whether she would live or die was by law the decision of the King of Saxony.

King Freidrich August III had this to say: “She is a woman somewhat like the one who was my wife. Away with her.” So the King refused to pardon young Grete because she reminded him of his ex.

The King’s decision was decried throughout Europe and made him quite unpopular, but local authorities were compelled to obey. Old statutes were consulted on the proper method of execution, and as they followed these ancient tomes in all their particulars, on July 22, 1908, the girl was forced to dress in a gown—white by some descriptions, black by others. She was led to a stage in the middle of the night surrounded by the men who’d prosecuted her. A priest exhorted her to repent, and the girl was then guillotined.

King Freidrich would be the last King of Saxony; he was deposed ten years later, and we’re all the worse for being robbed of the pleasure of royal scandals from the Continent. Had he followed popular opinion more closely… ?


Link: http://www.laurajames.com/clews/2005/05/begging_the_kin.html





(http://file1.npage.de/000623/53/bilder/4326658-high.jpg)         (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2233/2168846844_ca2bd9856b.jpg)

Grete Beier                                                                                                             Luise, Ex-crown Princess and former wife of King Friedrich August III.



Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Pezzazz on January 03, 2011, 01:56:06 PM
Thank you for that great article Marie Valerie.  In reading the book by Louisa, it seemed her husband was not so good in providing any sort of protection for his wife.  Louisa may have even had some mental illness, paranoia/persecution complex, or did that really come from nowhere? 

Her book was quite protective of her husband, but then it again, it had to be if she had any hope of seeing her children again -- which maybe she never did see them again?

Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: HerrKaiser on January 03, 2011, 02:41:15 PM
I always thought that King Friedrich August III. von Sachsen was a good hearted man, but not to all of his subjects:



Begging the King’s Pardon

Grete A young woman tires of her lover’s affections and arranges to terminate them in a most conclusive manner. This is an old story, older than Delilah, and yet periodically throughout history, a femme fatale sets herself apart from the rest and secures ignominy that long outlasts her.

Marie Margarete “Grete” Beier was one such. She met all the most important criteria for world-wide infamy as a murderess—namely, she was young, lovely, promiscuous, and from a good family–her father was the mayor of Freiburg, Saxony. Her victim, too, was well-to-do, a young professional named Pressler. At her trial, the young girl would admit, “with simplicity,” that she poisoned her fiancé with cyanide of potassium before guaranteeing his death by putting his own pistol in his mouth and pulling the trigger. She then planted in his rooms a fake suicide note; a will leaving his assets to Grete; and a forged letter from a supposed Italian wife threatening to ruin his relationship with Grete via a charge of bigamy.

Alas, Grete was naïve to the science of handwriting examination, which tripped her up. Her diabolical, nearly perfect plot to acquire Pressler’s assets while ridding herself of the nuisance of Pressler himself shocked the authorities. She was found guilty of murder and sentenced to die.

But those same authorities had developed tender feelings for poor Grete, who was, after all, only 22, and had acted under the influence of another lover who had lacked her father’s approval. It was thought that this young girl was only partly responsible and as much a victim as poor Pressler. The jury recommended leniency. The judges asked for grace, pointing out that she was a nymphomaniac, a mitigating fact in their minds. But the question of whether she would live or die was by law the decision of the King of Saxony.

King Freidrich August III had this to say: “She is a woman somewhat like the one who was my wife. Away with her.” So the King refused to pardon young Grete because she reminded him of his ex.

The King’s decision was decried throughout Europe and made him quite unpopular, but local authorities were compelled to obey. Old statutes were consulted on the proper method of execution, and as they followed these ancient tomes in all their particulars, on July 22, 1908, the girl was forced to dress in a gown—white by some descriptions, black by others. She was led to a stage in the middle of the night surrounded by the men who’d prosecuted her. A priest exhorted her to repent, and the girl was then guillotined.

King Freidrich would be the last King of Saxony; he was deposed ten years later, and we’re all the worse for being robbed of the pleasure of royal scandals from the Continent. Had he followed popular opinion more closely… ?


Link: http://www.laurajames.com/clews/2005/05/begging_the_kin.html





(http://file1.npage.de/000623/53/bilder/4326658-high.jpg)         (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2233/2168846844_ca2bd9856b.jpg)

Grete Beier                                                                                                             Luise, Ex-crown Princess and former wife of King Friedrich August III.





Seems the king was an early feminist—equal treatment/punishment regardless of gender.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: capttrips on January 14, 2011, 02:54:39 AM
Marie_Valerie, thank you for such information.  Forgive my disdain for the topic of Louisa, but my family has one of its own.

I bet she looks like these women--it must cost a lot to be a flapper.  "If I had a duck, It would drown."

Fyoder, I want to know a lot more about these de Afifs.  Since, well, they lived in my Grandpa's subdivision.  I might be the only person on planet earth who could believe, "Well, um, the country forgot us in Lebannon during the crusades," because, um, well, No one knows who the Kuhns are.

I tried to show you pictures, but you scoffed at me.  Roberto or Humbeto de Afif was at my dad's wedding, as was Jorge and Maria Peralta (my mom and aunt's friends from highschool.)  They are passing football scores, or secret messages--ha ha.

I still want to know a lot more about August the Strong, such as, does he have any court memoirs like Louise?

And, again, does Saint Louise, mother of Wilhelm I have such memoirs.

http://www.vigo.lib.in.us/archives/genhistories/oakey/Volume1/Part1/pt030.pdf
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Dru on March 01, 2011, 03:57:01 PM
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5136/5489585883_40bf28d736.jpg)

Prince Ernst-Heinrich of Saxony with one of his sons.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Dru on March 01, 2011, 03:59:57 PM
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5016/5489585875_4a0010854f.jpg)

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5140/5489585869_0ba5411453.jpg)

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5251/5489585881_cc29b47da2.jpg)

Ernst-Heinrich's sons Princes Dedo, Timo, and Gero

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5179/5490209894_e28083d39f.jpg)

With their mother, Princess Sophie of Luxembourg.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: THERRY on April 16, 2011, 04:04:26 PM
Found on EBay and new to me
(http://i51.tinypic.com/j7z1ck.jpg)
Prince Georg

(http://i51.tinypic.com/ambaja.jpg)
Crown Princess Louise with Frederich Cristhian
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Lucien on June 13, 2011, 09:52:54 AM
HRH Prince Alexander,Duke of Saxony,Honorary Consul of Spain in Dresden.A very remarkeble and admirable man.

http://www.honorarkonsulat-spanien.de/3.html

Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Alexander1917 on June 13, 2011, 06:44:53 PM
I always thought that King Friedrich August III. von Sachsen was a good hearted man, but not to all of his subjects:



Begging the King’s Pardon

Grete A young woman tires of her lover’s affections and arranges to terminate them in a most conclusive manner. This is an old story, older than Delilah, and yet periodically throughout history, a femme fatale sets herself apart from the rest and secures ignominy that long outlasts her.

Marie Margarete “Grete” Beier was one such. She met all the most important criteria for world-wide infamy as a murderess—namely, she was young, lovely, promiscuous, and from a good family–her father was the mayor of Freiburg, Saxony. Her victim, too, was well-to-do, a young professional named Pressler. At her trial, the young girl would admit, “with simplicity,” that she poisoned her fiancé with cyanide of potassium before guaranteeing his death by putting his own pistol in his mouth and pulling the trigger. She then planted in his rooms a fake suicide note; a will leaving his assets to Grete; and a forged letter from a supposed Italian wife threatening to ruin his relationship with Grete via a charge of bigamy.

Alas, Grete was naïve to the science of handwriting examination, which tripped her up. Her diabolical, nearly perfect plot to acquire Pressler’s assets while ridding herself of the nuisance of Pressler himself shocked the authorities. She was found guilty of murder and sentenced to die.

But those same authorities had developed tender feelings for poor Grete, who was, after all, only 22, and had acted under the influence of another lover who had lacked her father’s approval. It was thought that this young girl was only partly responsible and as much a victim as poor Pressler. The jury recommended leniency. The judges asked for grace, pointing out that she was a nymphomaniac, a mitigating fact in their minds. But the question of whether she would live or die was by law the decision of the King of Saxony.

King Freidrich August III had this to say: “She is a woman somewhat like the one who was my wife. Away with her.” So the King refused to pardon young Grete because she reminded him of his ex.

The King’s decision was decried throughout Europe and made him quite unpopular, but local authorities were compelled to obey. Old statutes were consulted on the proper method of execution, and as they followed these ancient tomes in all their particulars, on July 22, 1908, the girl was forced to dress in a gown—white by some descriptions, black by others. She was led to a stage in the middle of the night surrounded by the men who’d prosecuted her. A priest exhorted her to repent, and the girl was then guillotined.

King Freidrich would be the last King of Saxony; he was deposed ten years later, and we’re all the worse for being robbed of the pleasure of royal scandals from the Continent. Had he followed popular opinion more closely… ?


Link: http://www.laurajames.com/clews/2005/05/begging_the_kin.html





(http://file1.npage.de/000623/53/bilder/4326658-high.jpg)         (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2233/2168846844_ca2bd9856b.jpg)

Grete Beier                                                                                                             Luise, Ex-crown Princess and former wife of King Friedrich August III.





It's FreiBERG not Freiburg
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Zukunftsseele on August 06, 2011, 01:02:13 PM
Does anyone have more info on the life of Margarete, daughter of Luise and F.A.?
Title: Pss Maria Anna of Saxony
Post by: José on March 19, 2012, 11:08:48 AM
The sister of the present Markgraf Maria-Emmanuel died last week.

She was married to Lebanese-born Robert de Afiff whose family was upgraded for purposes of dynastic succession, and their eldest son was confirmed as the Markgraf successor.

Does anyone have a photo of the couple ?

Thanks in advance
Title: Death of Margrave of Meissen,Royal Family of Saxony
Post by: Lucien on July 26, 2012, 06:33:08 AM
HRH Marie Emanuel of Saxony,Margrave of Meissen and Head of the Royal Family of Saxony,passed away aged 86 last monday
the 23rd of July.HRH Prince Alexander,Margrave of Meissen now is the Head of the Royal Family of Saxony.

Alexander was choosen as the heir to the Title in 1986 during a family council.He lived in Mexico for years,
is perfect and afluent in many languages,a polyglot avant le lettre,and also the Consul-General of Spain
in Saxony.Under his inspiring and inovative guidance the economy of Saxony had a considerable boost.

Alexander Prince of Saxony,the new Head of the House in an interview a while back,
a fantastic person,and,easily to recognise he lived in Mexico and other Latin American countries
...he talks with his hands a lot....:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHLf2iHaY4U

At the Semper Opera Ball,Dresden 2011:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVD4loM56YQ



 
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Manon on July 29, 2012, 03:00:53 AM
In the Chemnitz edition of Bild-De dated 25.07.2012  Alexander declared: "Ganz klar: Der Markgraf von Meißen bzw. Chef des Hauses Wettin repräsentiert eine der ältesten Dynastien der Welt, darf Orden verleihen, wird von allen Königshäusern eingeladen und ist Teil der Protokolls der Bundesrepublik."

Can anyone explain what means " ist Teil der Protokolls der Bundesrepublik."

Thank you

Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Dru on August 19, 2012, 01:45:42 PM
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7138/7817079582_eb940333cd_z.jpg)

Princes Dedo, Timo, and Gero of Saxony, sons of Prince Ernst-Heinrich of Saxony and Princess Sophie of Luxembourg.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Dru on September 06, 2012, 08:19:10 PM
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8313/7946793350_40ed26a5b1_z.jpg)

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8462/7946792662_5a1e3a5dbf_z.jpg)

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8440/7946793934_bc0f756c41_z.jpg)

Prince Timo of Saxony.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Dru on September 06, 2012, 08:21:16 PM
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8455/7946841878_a26fe80935_z.jpg)

Timo's elder brother, Prince Dedo of Saxony.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Dru on January 13, 2013, 08:30:07 PM
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8366/8378736084_09ac3aaa28_c.jpg)

Dedo (center), Timo and Gero of Saxony.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Превед on January 03, 2014, 08:42:59 PM
Friedrich August III had a Sorbian wetnurse called Maria Bradel and even learned Sorbian from her! (Source: Elka Tschernokoshewa, Ines Keller (editors). Dialogische Begegnungen. Minderheiten Mehrheiten aus hybridologischer Sicht. (http://books.google.no/books?id=xMTbPCd4S24C&pg=PA179&lpg=PA179&dq=s%C3%A4chsisches+k%C3%B6nigshaus+und+die+sorben&source=bl&ots=jlj_x43yr1&sig=uvPsgtaPa0xsprJWkyL6P04Pxvw&hl=nn&sa=X&ei=ZnDHUtmqEsSk4gTu_YGQDA&ved=0CEkQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=K%C3%B6nig&f=false) His sister Mathilde also spoke Sorbian.

Evidently sturdy Sorbian wetnurses were all the rage among the upper classes both in Saxony and Berlin. From a royal Saxon viewpoint it's interesting that the only group among the population who shared the RF's Catholic religion were the Sorbs. Being Catholics speaking a Slavic language in addition to German give these Saxon royals a real Habsburg flair.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on January 11, 2014, 11:08:06 PM
Late in life former Crown Princess

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/grandduchessella/d082c7eb-f63a-432b-9adb-628fe8fe8ea1.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/grandduchessella/media/d082c7eb-f63a-432b-9adb-628fe8fe8ea1.jpg.html)
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 15, 2014, 08:47:44 AM
She needs a new bio in English.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Превед on January 18, 2014, 09:48:04 AM
She needs a new bio in English.

The scandal and the accompanying family dynamics have already been rehashed enough, don't you think? The context which makes the scandal interesting in a wider perspective is how it destabilized an already marginalized monarchy (due to its Catholicism in a nearly uniformly Protestant country and its reactionism in one of the two most industrialized regions of the German Empire). I'm not quite sure if non-German speaking royalty fans who haven't already made the effort to learn German are interested enough in Saxon history to warrant such a biography of the Crown Princess in English. As you can witness yourself on this forum, there is zero interest in the Saxony beyond the royal quarters. (Kind of like a complete reversal of the perspective on Saxon history in the DDR / GDR. Saxon history was very important to that regime, because it was the region in that predominantly rural country with the longest and most dense industrial proletarian movement.) Even though it was the deep-seated hope of the Saxon RF to oust Nicholas II as King of Poland. (Noch ist Polen nicht verloren - für das Haus Wettin!) Interesting question, BTW. Who would the Poles hate less? A reactionary, Slavic, Orthodox king or a reactionary, German, Catholic king?
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 18, 2014, 11:56:45 AM
The fact that Luise of Tuscany did wrote and published her bio in English made people want to learn the end to her story. I might do one if I have the time for it.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Превед on January 18, 2014, 12:22:19 PM
The fact that Luise of Tuscany did wrote and published her bio in English

Lol, I had forgotten that. Seems like the Saxon Main State Archive has some interesting stuff waiting for you then: Fürstennachlass Ludovica (Luise), Prinzessin von Sachsen (http://www.archiv.sachsen.de/archive/dresden/4986_3132353638.htm).
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 18, 2014, 02:40:23 PM
Thanks. I will look into that if I can find the time...I think sometime within this year. :-) Also need updating is an English bio on Countess Larisch, another writer of royalty in English.
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Превед on February 28, 2014, 03:35:45 PM
1912: Saxony is red!

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bc/Karte_der_Reichstagswahlen_1912.svg)
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Превед on January 19, 2015, 03:21:46 PM
Friedrich August III had a Sorbian wetnurse called Maria Bradel and even learned Sorbian from her! (Source: Elka Tschernokoshewa, Ines Keller (editors). Dialogische Begegnungen. Minderheiten Mehrheiten aus hybridologischer Sicht. (http://books.google.no/books?id=xMTbPCd4S24C&pg=PA179&lpg=PA179&dq=s%C3%A4chsisches+k%C3%B6nigshaus+und+die+sorben&source=bl&ots=jlj_x43yr1&sig=uvPsgtaPa0xsprJWkyL6P04Pxvw&hl=nn&sa=X&ei=ZnDHUtmqEsSk4gTu_YGQDA&ved=0CEkQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=K%C3%B6nig&f=false) His sister Mathilde also spoke Sorbian.

Evidently sturdy Sorbian wetnurses were all the rage among the upper classes both in Saxony and Berlin. From a royal Saxon viewpoint it's interesting that the only group among the population who shared the RF's Catholic religion were the Sorbs. Being Catholics speaking a Slavic language in addition to German give these Saxon royals a real Habsburg flair.

For the first time since FAIII (?) Saxony has a head of government who speaks Sorbian: Minister President Stanislaw Tillich. (He is not the first Catholic leader since FAIII, though, that was the first post-Wende minister president Kurt Biedenkopf (a West German).
Title: Re: King Friedrich August III of Saxony, his family and descendants
Post by: Превед on July 15, 2015, 05:18:12 PM
I was in Dresden two weeks ago and bought Prince Ernst Heinrich's memoirs "Mein Lebensweg. Vom Königsschloss zum Bauernhof.", which I can highly recommend. Lots of interesting anecdotes and interesting perspectives on Germany history from pre-WW1 to WW2. He was not only close to many key players during the monarchy, but also during the Weimar Republic. Some interesting titbits:

His eldest brother, Crown Prince Georg, who became a monk and probably was murdered by the Nazis, was called Jury en famille, because he, just like his father, had a Sorbian nanny. The Sorbian he learned from her probably also helped him learn Polish.

A few years before WW1 the RF was besieged in the palace in Dresden for three days due to Socialist demonstrations of unemployed workers.

The planned German spring offensive on the Western Front in 1918 failed partially (according to the Prince) because the supreme command deemed it impossible to let Crown Prince Rupprecht of Bavaria and the troops under his command play their planned key part instead of German Crown Prince Wilhelm. Neither was Crown Prince Rupprecht's offer to let Crown Prince Wilhelm take his position deemed dignified enough by the supreme command.

It was custom among the German royals (at least from reigning families) to adress each other with Du, although younger royals often added Onkel (and presumably Tante for women) when adressing their seniors, even though they were not directly related. Emperor Wilhelm II, though, preferred that other non-reigning royals adress him with Sie or Majestät.

In 1918 Prince Ernst Heinrich was sent on a diplomatic mission to Estonia and Finland. In Pskov he met the local metropolitan bishop who had councelled NII during his abdication (and advised him not to abdicate) and in Finland the government ferried him around in the IF's former Imperial train, which made a deep, eerie impression on him (as his father had told him about the very friendly reception he had gotten from NII during a state visit to Russia and the train staff told him about the grand duchesses running in the corridors) and he knelt down in prayer in front of the imperial icon still hanging on the wall.