Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => Grand Duchess Elizabeth Feodorovna => Topic started by: Namarolf on April 22, 2004, 11:26:58 AM

Title: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Namarolf on April 22, 2004, 11:26:58 AM
I enjoyed the book and learned many new things -some of the Grand Duchess letters to her relatives are very interesting, and I also learned a lot about her work with the sick and poor in Moscow. However, may be you should know the book is written from an Orthodox, religious point of view, and as you may now we have some beliefs and thoughts that a non-Orthodox probably would not share or understand the same way. Anyway, I would certainly recommend the book.
Also the proper title says "martyr of Communist yoke", not "joke".  Sadly it was no joke at all...
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: gem_10 on August 18, 2004, 10:00:21 PM
I have read somewhere in this forum that one of the members (I can't remember who  :)) is writing a book about Ella. Well actually, I have read only one book about Ella by Hugo Mager and I am pleased to know someone else is writing a book about her. I think there should be many books about her because she is truly an admirable and unforgettable person.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: grandduchessella on August 19, 2004, 12:53:43 AM
Quote
I have read somewhere in this forum that one of the members (I can't remember who  :)) is writing a book about Ella. Well actually, I have read only one book about Ella by Hugo Mager and I am pleased to know someone else is writing a book about her. I think there should be many books about her because she is truly an admirable and unforgettable person.


Oh one can only hope this isn't another false Ella book rumor! I've had my hopes raised before only to be smashed down.  :( I have Mager's book and it was good, but not as insightful as I think it could've been considering that more information about her is available then ever before with the opening of the Soviet archives. The other 2 bios were written long before then (Almedingens and Millars) and both are pretty reverent (esp the latter which was put out by an Orthodox group). She really needs a good biographer.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: princessalice on August 31, 2004, 12:55:04 PM
hi Mandie, your book on the Princess Elizabeth sounds so wonderful!!  you would call that "historical fiction," as it would be based on fact, but, as you said, you would add "non-characters," etc.  i am working on a children's book about the Princess Alice, Elizabeth's grandmother, that is based on the same concept.  

i have 4-5 postcards of Elizabeth, i collect them, mostly the families of Hesse, Prussia, Spain, and Queen Victoria's family, esp. her children.  i would be glad to scan them for you and share them that way.

Good luck!!!
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on August 31, 2004, 06:25:53 PM
Thank you PrincessAlice! :) :)
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Helen_Azar on October 01, 2004, 12:10:20 PM
Quote
I have read somewhere in this forum that one of the members (I can't remember who  :)) is writing a book about Ella. Well actually, I have read only one book about Ella by Hugo Mager and I am pleased to know someone else is writing a book about her. I think there should be many books about her because she is truly an admirable and unforgettable person.


Dear lunarmaiden,

Christopher Warwick, a British author, is currently working on a book about Ella, but it's not due to come out for a while....

Helen
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Svetabel on October 01, 2004, 01:11:04 PM
Quote
Just a little piece of news i wanted to post here:-

In the new catalog for the Amsterdam exhibiton "Nicholas and Alexandra", the bibliography for further reading listed a book titled

"Elisaveta Fedorovna. A Biography. Moscow 2004"

This is the not the rumoured "new Ella book", but it doesn't seem to be a re-edition of a Russian book already existing. I can't seem to track down any more information on it, but so exciting isn't it?! :o

I think it`s Vera Maerova`s  book "Elisaveta Fedorovna.A biography" -but it have been edited in Russian.May be an English version already come? If so - exciting book!
I guess the best  biography of Elisaveta in Russian
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: grandduchessella on October 01, 2004, 10:59:40 PM
Oh very exciting news about both! I've liked several of Christopher Warwick's book so I hope he does her justice. I hadn't heard about the Russian book but it sounds interesting too--often the Russian books have the most unusual photos, not the 'usual suspects' ones and that's special for Ella as there aren't near the number of photos of her out there you'd expect.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Helen_Azar on October 02, 2004, 07:37:44 AM
Quote
Oh very exciting news about both! I've liked several of Christopher Warwick's book so I hope he does her justice.



From what I understand, this new book will be taking a different approach than her existing biographies to Ella's personality and life,  and trying to see her more as an individual and a human being rather than through her connection to Alexandra and others. It sounds very good and I can't wait until it comes out.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: grandduchessella on October 02, 2004, 01:04:09 PM
Quote


From what I understand, this new book will be taking a different approach than her existing biographies to Ella's personality and life,  and trying to see her more as an individual and a human being rather than through her connection to Alexandra and others. It sounds very good and I can't wait until it comes out.


Many thanks for the additional info. I had high hopes for Hugo Mager's book and while I enjoyed it and even learned some new information, I still didn't feel it quite captured all of Ella's complexities. While it wasn't as overtly religious & reverential as the Millar book, it still seemed somewhat locked into the prevailing views on Ella. I hope this book really does her a service and allows modern audiences to gain some real insight into her life.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Elizabeth on December 30, 2004, 10:42:11 AM
I didn't know if any of you had seen this book out there -- Ella's Story: The Duchess Who Became a Saint, by Maria Tobias -- but it's available via Conciliar Press (www.conciliarpress.com), a publishing house that's part of the Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese (so it respects her life as a saint of the church).

It's written for children (my Mom got it for me for X-mas even though I've passed that stage by about 30 years!), and I haven't had a chance to read it yet, but it looks interesting.  
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Alicky1872 on December 30, 2004, 05:30:43 PM
Elizabeth, that sounds really interesting. I hadn't heard about it before. When you do read it, would you mind posting your thoughts on it? It might be nice for my daughter, in a couple years or so! (She's one month old now!)  :)
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Ilana on January 15, 2005, 05:07:05 PM
I actually like AE Almedingen's biography much better, though it, too, is written from a more religious point of view.

I will be looking forward to Chris Warwick's book.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Belochka on January 15, 2005, 09:57:36 PM
Perhaps I am in the minority, but I do not like this book.

While the book contains a bibliography, it does not provide an Index, which I find to be annoying.

I welcome Chris Warwick's new book, because it will hopefully present a less narrow interpretation.

Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Laura Mabee on March 02, 2005, 08:20:52 PM
I was browsing the library today and came arcross this book. Has anyone read it? It is a good read? or is it full of false facts?  ???
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Helen_Azar on March 02, 2005, 08:56:01 PM
Hi Laura,

You know, I think there may already be a thread on this book, although I can't find it.

This is an ok book as far as I can remember. Nothing earth shattering, and a lot of the emphasis is not really so much on Ella as it is on how she was connected to Nicholas and Alexandra, IMO. There is not all that much about Elizabeth as a person. It's worth a read, especially since there doesn't seem to be any other good Ella biography out there. But hopefully there will be one next year!

Heln
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Marlene on March 02, 2005, 09:54:39 PM
Quote
I was browsing the library today and came arcross this book. Has anyone read it? It is a good read? or is it full of false facts?  ???


Before the book was published, Mager was asked by a friend of his, David Duff, the biographer, about his book, and David (an old friend of mine), asked Mager to contact me.  Hugo sent me the manuscript - and I read it, and I made various comments (and offered corrections for genealogical and other things ... Most of what I proffered never got fixed ... and I found Mager's book to be one dimensional with so many sources untapped.  
I suspect Christopher Warwick's biography will be superior.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: LisaDavidson on March 02, 2005, 11:27:36 PM
Quote

Before the book was published, Mager was asked by a friend of his, David Duff, the biographer, about his book, and David (an old friend of mine), asked Mager to contact me.  Hugo sent me the manuscript - and I read it, and I made various comments (and offered corrections for genealogical and other things ... Most of what I proffered never got fixed ... and I found Mager's book to be one dimensional with so many sources untapped.  
I suspect Christopher Warwick's biography will be superior.


I too am looking forward to Warwick's work. For whatever it's worth, I found the mistakes irritating and in general it lacked insights into who Ella really was. I would say this book is worth borrowing from a friend for a read, but not worth buying.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Ilana on March 03, 2005, 12:20:11 PM
Nothing new, nothing insightful....
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Sunny on March 03, 2005, 01:16:45 PM
Quote

I too am looking forward to Warwick's work. For whatever it's worth, I found the mistakes irritating and in general it lacked insights into who Ella really was. I would say this book is worth borrowing from a friend for a read, but not worth buying.


Wish I had borrowed it  :-/  Also hope that Bluetoria's book on Ella, lands on the right desk, with the right publisher.

Sunny


Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: bluetoria on March 03, 2005, 01:26:39 PM
Sunny, you are so very kind  :) :)
The indecisive publisher has now had it for 4 months & keeps saying 'hang on...' I have to stick to novels for now....... :'(
Please pray for it for me!  ;) (God isn't listening to me  :-/ )

Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Eurohistory on March 03, 2005, 02:06:04 PM
Quote

Wish I had borrowed it  :-/  Also hope that Bluetoria's book on Ella, lands on the right desk, with the right publisher.

Sunny




Bluetoria,

If you are seeking a publisher...it would not be a bad idea to contact me.

Arturo Beéche' ;)
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: bluetoria on March 03, 2005, 02:07:36 PM
Quote

Bluetoria,

If you are seeking a publisher...it would not be a bad idea to contact me.

Arturo Beéche' ;)


Wow! How?
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Eurohistory on March 03, 2005, 02:27:02 PM
By email...but if you have a manuscript I would like to read it...we have four books destined for printing this year and I am already looking for projects for next year.

Arturo Beéche

PS: Yuo can email me privately you know.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Laura Mabee on March 03, 2005, 02:33:27 PM
Thanks for the insights  :)
Wow! Bluetoria, I didn't know you were the "Warwick" that people were mentioning! I look forward to reading your book! Think us board memebers can get a signed copy  ;D
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Helen_Azar on March 03, 2005, 03:02:31 PM
Quote
Bluetoria, I didn't know you were the "Warwick" that people were mentioning! I look forward to reading your book! Think us board memebers can get a signed copy  ;D


Laura, LOL. Bluetoria is not Warwick! Chris Warwick is a real person, not a pseudonim, and completely distict from Bluetoria  ;D. We are talking about two different books here.  :D
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Laura Mabee on March 03, 2005, 03:34:05 PM
Quote

Laura, LOL. Bluetoria is not Warwick! Chris Warwick is a real person, not a pseudonim, and completely distict from Bluetoria  ;D. We are talking about two different books here.  :D


Oops, sorry about that ;D
Is Chris a member of the forums? If not, does anyone know when his works are to be published?  
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Val289 on March 03, 2005, 03:52:22 PM
Quote
It's worth a read, especially since there doesn't seem to be any other good Ella biography out there. But hopefully there will be one next year!

Heln


From what I gather from Helen's posting - it sounds like it may be out next year sometime.  Perhaps someone here will have further information?

Bluetoria - Wow!  I had no idea you were trying to get a book on Elizabeth published!  Congratulations, I wish you all the luck in the world, and I know I'll certainly read it when it comes out!  :D
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Georgiy on March 03, 2005, 03:55:03 PM
Quote
Bluetoria - Wow!  I had no idea you were trying to get a book on Elizabeth published!  Congratulations, I wish you all the luck in the world, and I know I'll certainly read it when it comes out!


Me too. Bluetoria, I think you have a ready market here!
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: bluetoria on March 03, 2005, 05:21:27 PM
Quote
By email...but if you have a manuscript I would like to read it...we have four books destined for printing this year and I am already looking for projects for next year.

Arturo Beéche

PS: Yuo can email me privately you know.


THANK YOU, Arturo, I will! (It's late evening here so I'll do it 1st thing in the morning!) THANK YOU...even for reading it!  :) :) :) :) :)

And thank you very kind people who say kind things!

(Oooh,  :-[ , as soon as you say God isn't listening, He kind of whacks you in the face...)  
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Eurohistory on March 03, 2005, 05:42:25 PM
I  look forward to it!

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: bluetoria on March 04, 2005, 04:48:34 AM
Arturo, I have emailed it to you at Eurohistory.com. If, for some reason you don't receive it, PLEASE will you let me know!
Thank you!!
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Eurohistory on March 04, 2005, 09:09:22 AM
Thanks...I got it and will review...we can discuss details privately.

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Ilana on March 05, 2005, 12:24:36 PM
Bluetoria,
Have you novels published?  Could you tell us which ones?  I'd love to see them!
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: bluetoria on June 26, 2005, 07:02:22 AM
Thank you!  :)
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Mander on January 03, 2006, 02:05:16 PM
I'm looking for good reading on Ella. I looked on Amazon and found

Elizabeth: Grand Duchess of Russia by Hugo Mager


Is this a worthwhile book or is there something more accurate out there?
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Eurohistory on January 03, 2006, 05:22:32 PM
I found it a lifeless study of a rather interesting and complex woman.  Christina Croft's biography of Ella is much, much better, and by far!

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: ChristineM on March 21, 2006, 07:31:46 AM
I have just discovered Christina's website.   Unfortunately I am having the same problems as some of the posters above.   I am on a laptop too.   I'll try on the PC.

I am looking forward to reading the website and as well as having the opportunity to purchase Christina's book on Ella.   I have written three of four times to Eurohistory requesting details of how to secure a copy, but have failed to receive a reply.

Only a matter of days ago I was standing outside Ella's rooms in the Alexander Palace.   The right wing of the palace is so forlorn and in a terrible condition.   It is still occupied by the Navy and absolutely out of bounds.   However, I did discover from a member of the naval staff that Ella's rooms are in not bad condition and the fireplaces have survived.

Anyway, back to Christina's website.   I have always known Christina is a woman of talent, but it is her character which is absolutely outstanding .   She is a very exceptional human being.

tsaria
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Ilana on March 21, 2006, 11:50:19 AM
This book is beautifully written, and worth buying for her insights to Alix and Ella's relationship, alone!
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Alicky1872 on March 22, 2006, 05:18:22 PM
What I find a shame is the way this forum's rules apply to some and not others.  If I were to place a direct link to an Ebay item I was selling, for instance, I have no doubt that my post would be removed. Apprently the rules are different when applied to selling books on Amazon (not to mention the constant reminders about books being sold on personal websites).  

I also find it a shame the way at least one respected author is repeatedly treated on this forum, and now I'm afraid we'll have to add Christina to the list as well.   :-/







Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Forum Admin on March 22, 2006, 05:27:47 PM
Quote
 

That's exactly what it looks like to me too    ???  Maybe someone could explain why this thread has been taken down?


A dispute has arisen between Christina and Arturo about publication of her book.  Our forum was being used to drag people to take sides in the dispute between them, and we were left with no choice but to remove the thread entirely.

When Christina has a new publisher, we welcome her to let everyone know how to get a copy of her book.

About "exceptions" being made; we do allow people to post about their on topic books as this is a service to everyone interested, we believe that our users benefit more than the authors in being able to know about books on these subjects, although it is a "win-win" situation.  Ebay transactions only benefit the one "winner" and the seller. Personal commerce here is generally forbidden, though there can exceptions which are always asked for in advance.

Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Alixz on March 22, 2006, 05:46:19 PM
I am not familiar with the site that was taken down.  

However, I have been to Christina's site and it is wonderful.

I just purchased a copy of Ella, from Arturo with no problems and very good service.

I am sorry to hear about the difficulties, but I encountered none in the purchase of the book.  I am quite satisfied.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: NAAOTMA on March 22, 2006, 05:50:09 PM
With respect, I was not dragged into a dispute between Christina and Arturo. I commented on her post, which addressed something I had wondered about since I purchased ELLA last summer. The book is a slim, smallish paperback, and the list price was $40.00 plus postage and shipping. When my book arrived, I was dismayed to find it littered with obvious typos from start to finish. I also hope that when the time comes, Christina is in fact given the same access to sell her book here that Eurohistory enjoys and uses on numerous threads constantly thorughout the Forum.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Forum Admin on March 22, 2006, 06:10:17 PM
Please rest fully assured that Christina will be always be allowed full access to inform users of when and how to obtain her wonderful book, and any future Romanov related books we hope she will write.  We are delighted and pleased that she wrote the book in the first place, and I am dismayed that anyone thinks we are taking any sides in the issue at all when the opposite is the truth.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: LisaDavidson on March 22, 2006, 06:58:18 PM
Rob - we have tried to stay out of these and to keep others from being dragged into this. I applaud you and Bob for your efforts.

To those who say otherwise, all I can say is that I believe you are mistaken, but you are entitled to your opinions.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Arleen on March 22, 2006, 07:23:25 PM
I don't understand how those who have bought Christine's wonderful book about Ella could not have noticed the really sloppy way it was published.  I felt sorry for her at the time it came out.  

I also don't understand why her simple announcement that she had taken the copyright and manuscript back from Art's publishing house would make such a large fuss that the whole thread was removed without a trace.

The proof is right there in the published book for all to see.  

Rob, I feel for you too....you have a hard job keeping the AP going.

Arleen
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Forum Admin on March 22, 2006, 07:58:52 PM
Is there some part of "THIS private matter between the two of them will NOT be discussed in here" that was unclear?  Look, we don't know all the evidence from both sides. Period. Frankly, we don't want to  and will not.

Both sides have written to Bob and Lisa and me privately and agreed that our Forum is not the place for this discussion. Since the parties involved dont' care to discuss it here, why should anyone else?

There are FAR more important and pressing issues to discuss. THIS isn't one of them, dont you think?

Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Arleen on March 23, 2006, 01:59:36 PM
My dear Rob, I think the world of you.....but you are wrong!

Arleen
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Helen on March 23, 2006, 03:18:12 PM
I noticed that Christina left the forum this evening. In my opinion, that is an immense loss to this forum! It is sad and a shame that a kind, balanced and spiritual person like Christina, who was a long-standing and highly valued member of this forum, felt she could not stay as a member any more because of the developments of the past few days.  
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Forum Admin on March 23, 2006, 03:23:28 PM
To be blunt, Christina left specifically BECAUSE we refused to take sides in that dispute. We are also quite disappointed ourselves, and wonder what St. Elisabeth herself would think of all this.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Helen on March 25, 2006, 11:14:11 AM
It would indeed be interesting to know what Ella would have thought about this thread or about any other thread, member or development on this forum - or what Nicholas, Alexandra or their children would have thought about various discussions -  but alas, we'll never know.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Tania+ on March 25, 2006, 07:00:24 PM
Hello Helen,

Knowing Christina, I have to agree. I am as surprised as the many of you of Christina's leaving the forum. It is truly an immense loss ! Christina indeed is a most balanced and spirtual human heart. She is and will be continued to be a very highly valued person, and I know we all wish her the best, and many more successes. I hope those of you whom are in touch with her, will pass on to her our best wishes, and prayers. Tell her she is already missed, and to send us a message when possible of how she is, and always of her new writings. God Bless Christina Croft ! You will never be fortotton.  :)

Tatiana+
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Janet_W. on March 27, 2006, 10:14:28 PM
Since I have had but limited contact with saints, I'm not sure what St. Elisabeth would have done. However, we know the flesh-and-blood Ella evolved into a brave and decisive individual who risked--and lost--her relationship with her youngest surviving sister in an attempt to prevent the train wreck about to occur. Ella was not only a member of the imperial family but someone who had taken religious vows. She was, therefore, in a unique position to advise Alexandra regarding hypocrites and charlatans who cloaked themselves in holy pretentions. It is my belief that if Ella were to be transported into current times she would approve of the Alexander Palace website's educational value and humanity, while at the same time reminding Forum participants to "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." (Matthew 7:15)
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Lucien on March 29, 2006, 07:55:59 AM
Quote
Since I have had but limited contact with saints, I'm not sure what St. Elisabeth would have done. However, we know the flesh-and-blood Ella evolved into a brave and decisive individual who risked--and lost--her relationship with her youngest surviving sister in an attempt to prevent the train wreck about to occur. Ella was not only a member of the imperial family but someone who had taken religious vows. She was, therefore, in a unique position to advise Alexandra regarding hypocrites and charlatans who cloaked themselves in holy pretentions. It is my belief that if Ella were to be transported into current times she would approve of the Alexander Palace website's educational value and humanity, while at the same time reminding Forum participants to "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." (Matthew 7:15)

Amen.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Helen on March 30, 2006, 02:27:32 AM
I don't know what Ella would have said, but I have a pretty good idea of what my mother would say about this situation.  
"Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.  Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled." (Matthew 5:5-6)
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: anna on March 30, 2006, 04:06:19 AM
Quote
I don't know what Ella would have said, but I have a pretty good idea of what my mother would say about this situation.  
"Blessed are the ameek: for they shall inherit the earth.  Blessed are they which do ahunger and thirst after brighteousness: for they shall be filled." (Matthew 5:5-6)

Well your mother is a very wise woman, couldn't have said it better! As Lucien said Amen indeed.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: grandduchessella on April 01, 2006, 02:26:42 PM
You can't get the book through amazon.com anymore--which I guess makes sense. There's this message now:

Illegal Transaction, March 23, 2006
Reviewer: Wilson/CMC (England) - See all my reviews

THIS BOOK IS NO LONGER FOR SALE IN THIS FORMAT AND ANY ATTEMPT TO SELL IT IN THIS FORMAT IS IN BREACH OF INTERNATIONAL COPYRIGHT LAW

I guess this would mean that if you had a used copy you couldn't sell on amazon? (Not that I'm selling mine) I guess it's only available from Christina's website now.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: LisaDavidson on April 01, 2006, 07:15:13 PM
Quote
You can't get the book through amazon.com anymore--which I guess makes sense. There's this message now:

Illegal Transaction, March 23, 2006
Reviewer: Wilson/CMC (England) - See all my reviews

THIS BOOK IS NO LONGER FOR SALE IN THIS FORMAT AND ANY ATTEMPT TO SELL IT IN THIS FORMAT IS IN BREACH OF INTERNATIONAL COPYRIGHT LAW

I guess this would mean that if you had a used copy you couldn't sell on amazon? (Not that I'm selling mine) I guess it's only available from Christina's website now.

I didn't realize Christina was selling the book on her website.

Actually, you can order the book through Amazon. The comments you mention are listed under the reviews, but you can apparently still order the book from Amazon.

It is curious, however, if Christina is selling the book herself why someone would post a comment like this, isn't it?
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Tania+ on April 01, 2006, 08:01:02 PM
Dear Courtney,

Thanks for the information. I'm off to see Christina's website !
Hope all is well. Thank you agaian.

Tatiana+
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Marlene on April 01, 2006, 10:15:49 PM
It would not be illegal for you to sell your copy (as used) on Amazon, ebay, etc.  you are the owner of that book so you have the legal right to sell it, give away and so on.  This would not have anything to do with copyright.
It is a used book ... and your property to dispose of as you wish -- you could give it to a library or you could sell it ... It has nothing to do with copyright.


Quote
You can't get the book through amazon.com anymore--which I guess makes sense. There's this message now:

Illegal Transaction, March 23, 2006
Reviewer: Wilson/CMC (England) - See all my reviews

THIS BOOK IS NO LONGER FOR SALE IN THIS FORMAT AND ANY ATTEMPT TO SELL IT IN THIS FORMAT IS IN BREACH OF INTERNATIONAL COPYRIGHT LAW

I guess this would mean that if you had a used copy you couldn't sell on amazon? (Not that I'm selling mine) I guess it's only available from Christina's website now.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Marlene on April 01, 2006, 10:36:49 PM
[quote
Actually, you can order the book through Amazon. The comments you mention are listed under the reviews, but you can apparently still order the book from Amazon.

It is curious, however, if Christina is selling the book herself why someone would post a comment like this, isn't it?
[/quote]


The person who posted that comment was Christina herself (click on the link).  I have no information on the dispute between Art and Christina, but most likely, Art would have to destroy all extant copies of the book.  Amazon is not selling the book.  Art was selling the book through Amazon's portal.  But the book was not being stocked by Amazon which provides a marketplace for others to sell books.  The book was sold by Eurohistory (which would have to pay a small percentage to Amazon for each copy sold.)  I have sold QVD this way.

It is up to Art to make sure the entry is removed.  Christina owns the right to her work (meaning the words).  But she would not have the legal right to the actual copies of the book.  The publisher does; however, the publisher in these cases is usually obligated to destroy the actual book in a legal dispute (if the court so ruled.)  Everything all depends on what Christina's contract was with Eurohistory ...
Major publishers pay an advance on royalties (we are talking about big publishing houses ) ... a writer would not get any further royalties until the actual costs of the book were paid for ... let's say your contract says you get 10% of the sale of a book ...  The book sells for $40.00 ... the author does not usually get the -10% of 40.00. The author gets 10% of what was paid for the book.  Bookstores don't pay full price for a book ... they pay something like 33% of the cost (bookstores have to make money too).  The author would get the 10% of the 33%, not the full price.  But it all depends on what Christina's contract said.  She would probably not have the rights to the physical book - just her words.   The publisher would own the book since the publisher made the investment.  
I have no idea at all what arrangement Christina had with Eurohistory - if he is going to give her the remaining copies or destroy the remaining copies.  The author also has the right to purchase at a discount copies of their books ... (publishers -- we are talking about publishing houses - give only a small number of copies of the book to authors.  10, 20, ...Publishers also send review copies out magazines, etc, and review copies are not included in the royalties, but are usually included in the cost of publishing the book.

I speak from experience as a published author (and having also once worked in the business) ...

However, the author cannot prevent a buyer of the book from selling that book through Amazon.  Amazon never sold the book ....
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Prince_Lieven on April 02, 2006, 05:51:04 AM
Christina is no longer selling the book. The link to buy the book on her website is no longer there, only a link to email her, and if you email her, she will reply that she no longer sells the book.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Prince_Lieven on April 02, 2006, 07:15:41 AM
Oops, sorry, I have it wrong - Christina never sold the book, the link on her website was only to amazon.  ;)
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Robert_Hall on April 02, 2006, 09:33:14 AM
So, who was Croft on this board ? And did she leave over this dispute with Arturo ?
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Alicky1872 on April 02, 2006, 10:02:03 AM
The answers you are seeking are

Bluetoria

and

....YES!!!  :'(
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Robert_Hall on April 02, 2006, 10:28:31 AM
What a pity. I always enjoyed her posts.  Seems a shame she left the Forum because of an issue that was totally seperate from it. I wish her well in any case.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Laura Mabee on April 02, 2006, 10:49:54 AM
Does this now mean that the only way to obtain this book is through used copies? I do hope that maybe this book will be published again, as I've only heard good things about it.

Maybe, *hesitates to mention*...
If Eurohistory has copies that he can no longer sell, and needs to dispose of, they can be given away to libraries or a few copies can be given on the duplicate book thread?
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: LisaDavidson on April 02, 2006, 11:07:12 AM
Quote
Does this now mean that the only way to obtain this book is through used copies? I do hope that maybe this book will be published again, as I've only heard good things about it.

Maybe, *hesitates to mention*...
If Eurohistory has copies that he can no longer sell, and needs to dispose of, they can be given away to libraries or a few copies can be given on the duplicate book thread?

This is so cool. Laura. Well, Art and Christina, if you're reading this - Laura may have part of a solution here for you . I personally would be willing to purchase another copy of Christina's book and donate it to our local library, and perhaps others would be so inclined?
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Prince_Lieven on April 02, 2006, 11:09:57 AM
Quote
Does this now mean that the only way to obtain this book is through used copies? I do hope that maybe this book will be published again, as I've only heard good things about it.

Maybe, *hesitates to mention*...
If Eurohistory has copies that he can no longer sell, and needs to dispose of, they can be given away to libraries or a few copies can be given on the duplicate book thread?

Christina intends to find a new publisher.  ;)
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Marlene on April 02, 2006, 12:34:20 PM
As I said I do not have the details of the situation.   However, I would hazard a guess that only a limited number of copies were published.  Eurohistory is a small publisher, without majuor distribution.   Apart from getting books to a small publisher of bookstores in the UK (ie Hatchards, I think, and a few others), and several others in Europe,  Eurohistory, as with hundreds of small publishers, has no real way to get into the distribution of titles for bookstores, as bookstores in the USA use jobbers to order books (Baker and Taylor is one of them).  I understand this because my publisher Rosvall Royal Books is in the same situation -- small publlisher with a limited market.

I have no idea what the arrangement is between Art and Christina.  However,  he probably would not be able to give the copies of the book to libraries, etc., because he would, in essence, be making money off the book ... donations to libraries are tax deductible, here in the USA.  I have no first hand information, but I would hazard a guess that the arrangement between Christina and Art has ended.  Most likely, he would have been asked to destroy the books (that is what has been done in other cases).  That is what is usually done ...  

Quote
Does this now mean that the only way to obtain this book is through used copies? I do hope that maybe this book will be published again, as I've only heard good things about it.

Maybe, *hesitates to mention*...
If Eurohistory has copies that he can no longer sell, and needs to dispose of, they can be given away to libraries or a few copies can be given on the duplicate book thread?
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: grandduchessella on April 02, 2006, 09:14:14 PM
Quote
Oops, sorry, I have it wrong - Christina never sold the book, the link on her website was only to amazon.  ;)


My mistake--from old threads I thought it had been sold on her website. I should've gone back and read more carefully.

So the only way to get it I guess (barring a new publication) is to find a used copy.  :-/
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: grandduchessella on April 02, 2006, 09:15:38 PM
thanks for your additional information Marlene. I wasn't sure about the selling of used copies in a situation such as this, with a dispute. As I said, I'm not selling mine, but I'm glad that used copies might still pop up for anyone who might want on. I find a lot of amazon that way.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: grandduchessella on April 02, 2006, 09:19:12 PM
Quote
 Most likely, he would have been asked to destroy the books (that is what has been done in other cases).  That is what is usually done ...  


I understand why for legal reasons this has to be done but it always bruises the heart when one thinks of perfectly good books going up in flames.

When I worked at a University library, we had to rip books that were donated to us that we didn't have a need for. Because it was a state university, we couldn't sell them like public libraries. Made me ill.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Tania+ on April 02, 2006, 09:33:44 PM
Courtney,

It makes me ill also. Anytime I hear of books being burned, torn, etc., I shudder to think of how education is really addressed, or not. Let's just hope that Christina is able to find an assured way,
and her book will be read again without further issue. Christina is such a nice lady, and i only hope and wish the best for her. Good luck to you dear Christina !

Tatiana+


Quote
Quote
 Most likely, he would have been asked to destroy the books (that is what has been done in other cases).  That is what is usually done ...  


I understand why for legal reasons this has to be done but it always bruises the heart when one thinks of perfectly good books going up in flames.

When I worked at a University library, we had to rip books that were donated to us that we didn't have a need for. Because it was a state university, we couldn't sell them like public libraries. Made me ill.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Marlene on April 02, 2006, 10:01:06 PM
As I said, I have no knowledge of the situation... and it is a matter between Art and Christina, and if Christina has made any requests to Art regarding the extant copies of her book ...
Quote
Quote
 Most likely, he would have been asked to destroy the books (that is what has been done in other cases).  That is what is usually done ...  


I understand why for legal reasons this has to be done but it always bruises the heart when one thinks of perfectly good books going up in flames.

When I worked at a University library, we had to rip books that were donated to us that we didn't have a need for. Because it was a state university, we couldn't sell them like public libraries. Made me ill.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Alicky1872 on April 03, 2006, 09:27:27 AM
Quote
Quote
 Most likely, he would have been asked to destroy the books (that is what has been done in other cases).  That is what is usually done ...  


When I worked at a University library, we had to rip books that were donated to us that we didn't have a need for. Because it was a state university, we couldn't sell them like public libraries. Made me ill.

Does anyone know why this is? You'd think any way of raising money for the library would be a good thing.

This is a totally different subject matter, but years ago I used to work in a Hallmark gift shop. Our manager would sometimes get a bee in her bonnet and do a 'super-clean' of the store. Stuff that was only slightly damaged, or had been in the shop quite awhile (Yankee candles, even cute cuddly-wuddly teddy bears and things!) would get thrown into big black bags to be thrown away. I always volunteered to take the bags down to the mall's dumpster and would set them on the side until I got out of work. Then I'd call my mom to come pick me up in the car and what we didn't want, we would donate to thrift stores along the way.   ;)
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Tania+ on April 03, 2006, 12:54:25 PM
I think what grabs my craw, is that in the past, as a nation we have seen much about the importance of books, and the valuable content they offer young minds, and those who are willing to broaden their education, if not daily interests.

To add to that, are the political actions taken by the Nazi's, Communists, and other types of political leaderships of the world who hold nor care about the value of such educational offerings.

We here in the United States are a wealthy nation, and in particular, when I read of how books, and other needs are thrown in the trash, it stops me cold. Did we not just have a crisis in the gulf, and children, adults bereft of the most basic needs ? Why is this in particular not taken into addrss, and these needed basic items, gathered together and sent to the most needed places. I just don't get it.

Perhaps if enough letters, or public outcry is offered, it must might change,how things are done.
Just my thoughts on this subject. Sorry, but I think it's important enough for us all to care about.

Tatiana+
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Alixz on April 05, 2006, 05:37:31 PM
I may actually have gotten one of the last copies of Christina's book.  When I bought it from Arturo through Amazon, he told me that there were only four copies left in inventory.  That was just about the time that the altercation began.

It is any easy read.  Another poster has said that it is a "smallish paperback that is littered with typos".

That is true, but IMHO (and I don't want to start any arguements, so please just accept that this is
just my humble opinion), I don't think I learned anything more than I did from Hugo Mager's book.  I know that it is impossible to tell any Romanov story without incorporating the story of N&A, but I thought that the book was more about them than Ella.  Ella, even in her attempts to counsel Alix, was merely a bystander.  Not only in her life, but in this book.  The only major thing she did was to conive to bring Alix to Russia to marry Nicky.

Her life before her vows was not exceptionally exciting and her life after her vows. though impressive, took up less space in the book than the Imperial Family's exile and death.  I am over-awed by what she did for the poor in Moscow.  It is no wonder that she has been made a saint.  But that isn't news.

Perhaps she needed to give away all of her wealth and give pennance for bringing Alix to Russia in the first place.  That piece of manipulation was major and had a major impact on the dynasty and the end of the dynasty.

I there any information in any archive that gives us her thought processes during the time that she planned her religious order?  Other than her desire to help the poor, do we know if she was trying to make up for past "mistakes"?
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Teddy on April 09, 2006, 02:04:17 PM
H.I.H. the Grand Duchess Elisabeth Feodorovna of Russia, by ALEXANDRA OLSOUFIEFF.

What kind of book is this? And who is Alexandra Olsoufieff (the discription says, that she was a relative of Tsar).

Gr. Teddy


[edited to add title info to subject line]
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: julia.montague on April 09, 2006, 02:21:56 PM
I found this (http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/GDElisabeth.html)

and this
Quote
OLSOUFIEFF,ALEXANDRA. H.I.H. the Grand Duchess Elisabeth Feodorovna of Russia.
London, John Murray, 1925. 16 pp. 2 plts. Soft cover. Pages are foxed. First plt. tipped in verso front cover.*With handwraitten dedication in ink: A la chère Ivan et Coruéluy Torley Auwels avec mes ....... Csa Felix Olsoufieff. From the collection of a relative of the last Szar who lived and died in The Hague, Holland.
EUR 250.00 = appr. US$ 310.00
Offered by: Antiquariaat A. Kok & Zn. B.V.(NVvA/ILAB) - Book number: 178181

Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Teddy on April 09, 2006, 02:24:45 PM
Yes, thats the one!
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: grandduchessella on April 10, 2006, 11:12:08 AM
I have it in article form, I think. (The info given above says the book is 16 pages) I got it a long time ago and I'm glad I did because if it's the same there's no way I'd pay $350 for it!  :o
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Linnea on August 02, 2006, 07:09:48 AM
Isn´t there also a new book on Ella coming out in autumn this year? I thought it was called "Princess and Martyr" or something like thatr, but the author escapes me...
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Eddie_uk on August 02, 2006, 07:17:02 AM
That's interesting Linnea! How many biographys are there on Ella??
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Marlene on August 02, 2006, 08:20:33 AM
Isn´t there also a new book on Ella coming out in autumn this year? I thought it was called "Princess and Martyr" or something like thatr, but the author escapes me...


Christopher Warwick
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Helen_Azar on August 02, 2006, 08:25:05 AM
Isn´t there also a new book on Ella coming out in autumn this year? I thought it was called "Princess and Martyr" or something like thatr, but the author escapes me...

I think you are referring to the new biography by Christopher Warwick? It is supposed to be published in October in Britain, and in February in the US.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Linnea on August 02, 2006, 03:59:44 PM
Isn´t there also a new book on Ella coming out in autumn this year? I thought it was called "Princess and Martyr" or something like thatr, but the author escapes me...

I think you are referring to the new biography by Christopher Warwick? It is supposed to be published in October in Britain, and in February in the US.

The amazon-synopsis of Warwick´s book:
The young woman, who from childhood was known as Ella, was born one of the most privileged in Europe. The granddaughter of Queen Victoria and the daughter of Princess Alice and Grand Duke Louis of Hesse-Darmstadt, she had a happy and exclusive childhood. She grew to be a renowned beauty and one of the most attractive prospective marriage partners in Europe. Yet this did not protect her from tragedy. Following the early death of her mother she grew close to her grandmother and spent many happy times at Windsor. Yet, during this time she met and, at the age of 20, became engaged to, Grand Duke Sergei Alexandrovitch, younger brother of Tsar Alexander III, very much against the wishes of her grandmother who considered Russia to be too volatile for safety. It was at their wedding that her younger sister, Alix, formed a love match with the future Tsar Nicholas II. This event sealed the fate of both sisters - and the history of Russia might have been very different if these meetings had not taken place. The marriage was not a happy one and, after her husband was killed by an anarchist's bomb in Red Square she finally renounced her privileged life at the Romanov court and became a nun working for the poor of Russia. Her good works over many years earned her canonization and a recent statue at Westminster Abbey, but did not save her from the Red Army. Following the 1917 revolution she was arrested and removed from her convent with other nuns, before being thrown down a well and pelted with grenades. Her body was rescued by a priest and removed to China before eventually being laid to rest at the Mount of Olives in the early 1920s.

Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Agneschen on August 03, 2006, 10:46:33 AM
I am not familiar with any of Warwick's bios - are they worth reading ? Is he a good / accurate biographer ? I am interested in his coming bio about Ella but would like to know what his previous works are worth before I think about buying his it.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Marlene on August 03, 2006, 11:21:08 AM
He is the author of perhaps one of the best books on Princess Margaret (the author by Theo Aronson).  he also wrote a very good book on Edward and Marina Kent - good, rather than great because he did not have access to diaries, etc,


quote author=Agneschen link=topic=7595.msg200354#msg200354 date=1154619993]
I am not familiar with any of Warwick's bios - are they worth reading ? Is he a good / accurate biographer ? I am interested in his coming bio about Ella but would like to know what his previous works are worth before I think about buying his it.
[/quote]
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Helen_Azar on August 03, 2006, 07:43:04 PM
I am not familiar with any of Warwick's bios - are they worth reading ? Is he a good / accurate biographer ?


Yes, they are worth reading and yes he is a a very good biographer. I am really looking forward the new Ella book.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Helen_Azar on August 08, 2006, 01:17:13 PM
FYI:


Christopher Warwick's book is called "Ella: Princess, Saint & Martyr". ISBN: 0-470-87063-X

The original synopsis on Amazon.com actually had a lot of inaccuracies about the book, and once the author saw it he corrected them. Here it is:

Considered to have been the most beautiful princess in Europe, capable of arousing ‘profane passions’, Elisabeth of Hesse and by Rhine, or ‘Ella’ as she was known, was a  granddaughter of Queen Victoria and the daughter of Princess Alice of Great Britain and Grand Duke Louis of Hesse. A privileged, happy Victorian childhood was touched by tragedy not only with the early deaths of her youngest brother and sister but also that of her young mother. Close to Queen Victoria, Ella spent some of her happiest times in Britain. At 20, however, much against the wishes of her  grandmother, who despised everything Russian, Ella became engaged to Grand Duke Serge Alexandrovich, the authoritarian younger brother of Tsar Alexander III. It was at their wedding that her younger sister, Alix, formed a love match with the future Tsar Nicholas II; an event which not only  sealed the fate of both sisters, but that of the Imperial House of Romanov. But for these two marriages, the history of Russia might have been very different.

With the assassination of her husband, Ella renounced society and, against considerable opposition, founded the first religious Order of its kind in Russia, working for the poor and destitute of Moscow. Though loved for her charitable works and pionerering achievements, Ella, like Nicholas, Alexandra, and fourteen members of their family, met a brutal death at the hands of the Bolsheviks. At the height of the Russian Revolution, she was taken captive to Siberia where, having been clubbed with rifle butts, she was hurled alive into a disused mineshaft and left to die  of her injuries. Later retrieved, her incorrupt body was eventually laid to rest on the Mount of Olives. She was subsequently canonized by the Russian Orthodox Church as the Holy Imperial Martyr Saint Elisabeth Romanova. 
 


Here also are some comments from British authors/historians about the book:

Alison Weir has said that Ella is: `. . . riveting, and so unutterably moving.  What a tour de force! . . . combines sparkling detail with the grim realities of the last decades of Imperial Russia.  [Christopher Warwick’s] Ella lives, and we live all the dramas and the tragedies with her.  This is a powerful, stunning and poignant book that deserves widespread recognition.’
 
Hugo Vickers says: `The reader is in expert hands as Christopher Warwick tells the inspiring, partly tragic story of the Grand Duchess Elisabeth, leading from its romantic start to its terrible conclusion. Warwick has mastered the material, and guides us sympathetically through the story, adding much that is new.  The book lingers with you long after you have finished it.’




Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: grandduchessella on August 08, 2006, 01:21:45 PM
Sounds very promising! I'm curious to see how Warwick will approach the Willy/Ella romance, which had a much different spin to it in the first volume of John Rohl's works on Wilhelm, and some other issues raised in Mager's book but sort of left to peter out.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Marlene on August 08, 2006, 02:02:32 PM


Mager did not have a lot to work with - Rohr had access to Wilhelm's papers

Sounds very promising! I'm curious to see how Warwick will approach the Willy/Ella romance, which had a much different spin to it in the first volume of John Rohl's works on Wilhelm, and some other issues raised in Mager's book but sort of left to peter out.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: grandduchessella on August 08, 2006, 02:23:06 PM
I wasn't referring to Mager's take on Willy & Ella but rather the view in basically all the books which mention the romance and which Rohl had a different view of. With Mager it was some issues, such as remarking on a flirtation, perhaps born of boredom and frustration, with Nicholas of Greece, that are mentioned and then just dropped.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: amelia on September 16, 2006, 08:06:11 PM
Has anyone ever heard of this book, AUTOUR DE LA MORT DES GRANDS DUQUES?I am not sure if this is the eirght spelling.

Thank you
Amelia
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Ilana on September 17, 2006, 01:54:33 PM
I have it. It's a pamphlet on Ella's life.  I didn't much care for it... had anti-Semetic comments in it.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: grandduchessella on October 04, 2006, 07:30:58 AM
Amazon.com has a pre-order up on the new Christopher Warwick book, Ella, Princess, Saint and Martyr. It doesn't have a date yet on the site but you can see the book cover--one of my favorite pictures of Ella. Eric Lowe says in the Ella Forum that the new Majesty magazine has a section on the book so it must be coming soon. The Amazon UK site says Oct 27.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Ilana on October 05, 2006, 12:13:43 PM
The cover is beautiful.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Taren on October 08, 2006, 11:20:23 PM
Barnes and Noble.com says it will be available on December 15. As my birthday is later this month, I was really hoping for sooner rather than later.

Is there really a definitive book on Ella? I haven't really seen anything other than this one and the Mager book.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Ilana on October 09, 2006, 11:47:55 AM
There are several biographies, two, which I would say emphasize her religious side, by Lubov Millar and E.M. Almedingen, and then the Hugo Mager effort, which I would say wasn't particularly adequate.  We await Christopher's book!
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Penny_Wilson on November 16, 2006, 04:51:42 PM
This book is to be released in the US by John Wiley & Sons on 2 January 2007, but is already available in the UK.  I received my copy from amazon.uk two days ago, and I am only about halfway through, but I thought I would like to weigh in here with a strong recommendation for this book.

Aside from the excellent and interesting information and details about Ella's early life and early marriage (which is as far as I have read so far), the book contains what is without doubt the most in-depth and insightful analysis of Serge Alexandrovich's character that I have seen in print.  Now -- for the first time -- I have enough insight into their relationship to "see" them together, and to understand Ella's protestations of happiness despite the rumors to the contrary that existed even at the time -- and continue today.  Yet I am certain that there is still more to know about the elusive and private Serge...

I am also enjoying Chris Warwick's style -- he's erudite, but readable, and never dry or boring; he draws you into the story.  I think that this is a book most people who read this site will enjoy -- so add it to your holiday reading list!

~Penny

(Edited to add: More to come as I read on...)

Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Ra-Ra-Rasputin on November 16, 2006, 05:02:15 PM
Thanks Penny.

I've been thinking about ordering this but wasn't sure because I had heard bad reviews of the previous bio of Ella, and I wanted to make sure this one was going to be worth purchasing.

It shall be added to my growing Christmas list for 'Santa' a.k.a. my parents!

Rachel
xx
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Penny_Wilson on November 16, 2006, 05:07:29 PM
Oh, gosh, Rachel!  Forget the others.  This one is the real deal. I usually find something to enjoy about most books -- I guess I just love reading -- but I can honestly say I haven't liked a book so much as this is quite some time.  I'm virtually certain you'll like it too!  ;D

~P.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Rachael89 on November 19, 2006, 10:34:50 AM
Hi everyone

Ella is one of the Romanovs I know less about, and when looking into her I found reference to the book, An Unbroken Unity, I was wondering if anyone thought it was any good etc.? Also, what are memoirs, are they recollections about Ella by other people?

Thanks in advance for replies!

Rachael
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: s.v.markov on November 19, 2006, 11:14:14 AM
Hi Rachael : The actual title is 'An Unbroken Unity ~ A Memoir of the Grand-Duchess Serge of Russia, 1864 - 1918', and it's by a well-known writer on Russian history, a lady called E.M.Almedingen, and it was published in 1964. I don't think it has ever been reprinted, and so is now quite a rare and sought after book. The word 'memoir' in the title is a bit confusing, as it's not the Grand-Duchess' memoirs, but an account of her life and death in seven short chapters, from 'The Quiet Years' of her childhood as the daughter of GD Louis of HD and Princess Alice of England, through to her marriage to GD Serge, then his murder in 1905, followed by her own retreat into the convent and final, terrible end at Alapaevsk in 1918. It is sensitively and skilfully written, with a few good photos, and was for many years the only available book on Ella, until the appearance, in 2005, of 'Ella : Grand Duchess Elisabeth Feodorovna of Russia' by Christina Croft, published by Eurohistory.com. This new book is an excellent biography (in paperback) with a great deal more detail and loads of good and unusual photos. I bought mine from Royalty Digest in Sussex. I think there is yet another book on her, which is discussed on this thread somewhere.

Just for future ref : E.M. Almedingen grew up in St Petersburg, and lectured on English History and Literature at the University there. In the early 1920's she emigrated to England, and lectured in Russian Literature at Oxford! She wrote many books on Russian history, mainly biographies, and also her own autobiography, the first volume of which ('Tomorrow will Come') tells of her time in St Petersburg. An interesting character.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Rachael89 on November 19, 2006, 12:05:22 PM
Hi Ken

Thankyou for such an interesting and lengthy reply. I think it must of been reprinted because there was a copy on e-bay that I was bidding on but I got out, I think I'll probably look into the other book about her you mentioned, it sounds much more detailed  :). I think it must of been reprinted actually - the copy on e-bay had a very 'new' look to it if you know what I mean!

Thanks again!

Rachael
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: grandduchessella on November 19, 2006, 01:34:47 PM
Before Christina's book there was one more--Lubov Millar's book on her. It was mostly a religious-oriented book but it was interesting nonetheless and had some nice pictures.

Almedingen's was the first one I ever read on Ella and I searched for my own, original, copy for many years. It's a very slight book, not long at all, but is still a wonderful read. Here's some of what was written about it:

"This short memoir of the Grand-Duchess Elizabeth, whose sister was the wife of the Emperor Nicholas II, has been compiled from hitherto unpublished correspondence and also from such personal notes as the author was able to contribute. Although E.M. Almedingen did not know the Grand-Duchess personally, she had opportunities to talk with people who had been her intimates. This is a sensitive and convincing portrait of a woman whose life was enriched by a deep happiness, ennobled by a profound sorrow, and fulfilled in its selfless service to the sick and suffering people amongst whom her destiny led her. Her tragic and violent death enhances rather than mars the record of a life which was indeed “an unbroken unity”. "

Almedingen also wrote other books on the Romanovs:

The Romanovs: Three Centuries of an Ill-Fated Dynasty
Catherine the Great: A Portrait
Emperor Alexander I
The Empress Alexandra

An Unbroken Unity has been reprinted and is available online (Gilbert's Royal books for instance) for $32.95.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Penny_Wilson on November 19, 2006, 01:49:44 PM
Before Christina's book there was one more--Lubov Millar's book on her. It was mostly a religious-oriented book but it was interesting nonetheless and had some nice pictures.

Also there is Hugo Mager's Elizabeth: Grand Duchess of Russia, published in the 90s sometime.

~Penny
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Helen_Azar on November 29, 2006, 08:17:10 AM
Thanks everyone for your feedback on the book. In the last couple of years, while Chris Warwick was working on this book, I had the opportunity to help him with some Russian translations for it, and it was a great learning experience as well as a lot of fun for me. So I have been looking forward to this book for more than two years now! I know that Chris approached his research in a serious and scholarly way, he traveled to Moscow and St Petersburg, went to the archives, the entire bit. But at the same time he did it in a way that would appeal to a popular reader.

I haven't had the chance to read the book yet, but it sounds like he definitely succeeded! Chris was kind enough to send me a copy of the book and I just received it yesterday, so I am looking forward to reading it now more than ever! 
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: s.v.markov on November 29, 2006, 10:23:29 AM
..........and now, of course, there is 'Ella : Princess, Saint and Martyr' by Christopher Warwick (2006, Wiley), which will surely become THE book about Ella. Recently published in UK, and due in US in early 2007. See the separate thread for details.

(And, for those who enjoy Romanov-related music, catch John Tavener's 'Elizabeth, Full of Grace' on 'The John Tavener Collection' (Decca 475-096-2)
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Belochka on November 29, 2006, 07:03:07 PM
My copy should arrive any day from England. I am particularily interested in reading his interpretation about Ella's endorsement of the "patriotic act" after Rasputin was assassinated.

Congratulations Helen!!! I know that you have worked very hard on this new book and should be highly commended for your valuable contribution. It is always nice if an author fully appreciates such voluntary efforts and rewards you with a complimentary copy as a pleasant momento.

Margarita  :)
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Helen_Azar on November 30, 2006, 07:38:14 AM
Thanks, but Chris is the one who worked hard on his book, I just had lots of fun with my tiny part, and in the process discovered that I liked doing translation work quite a lot. Chris is a wonderful author, not to mention a very gracious person, and I am definitely at his service for future projects, if ever he needs me again!

I started reading the book last night, and although I am only on page 10 so far, I can tell that I will like it a lot (even though I am a biased party  ;)).



Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Kimberly on December 01, 2006, 02:21:58 PM
Yes, Helen, I saw that he acknowleged you. It gave me quite a thrill  (Ooooh, I know her, I thought to myself ;D)
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Belochka on December 01, 2006, 10:51:35 PM
I finally received this book from London two days ago. It is very well written and researched and stands alone from the other published books on Ella in both Russian and English.

A worthy contribution to understanding this complex woman and the era in which she lived and died.

Margarita  
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Teddy on December 04, 2006, 11:51:35 AM
Oh, gosh, Rachel!  Forget the others.  This one is the real deal.

I still love the one of Christina Croft. It was very good written.  She is a very good writer.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Belochka on December 04, 2006, 07:05:45 PM
Oh, gosh, Rachel!  Forget the others.  This one is the real deal.

I still love the one of Christina Croft. It was very good written.  She is a very good writer.

You are right Teddy. To my shame I failed to remember her book at the time of my posting. My apologies Christina!

Margarita
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Marie Valerie on December 13, 2006, 12:09:16 PM
Are there some (new) photos in the book?
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Belochka on December 13, 2006, 06:05:07 PM
Are there some (new) photos in the book?

The author has included his own photogrpaph that he personally took at the Novospasski Monastery and an image from a newspaper that is in his private collection. The are also a couple of photographs taken by Katrina Warne inside the chapel.

Margarita
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Teddy on December 15, 2006, 01:40:00 AM
This book is your money worth. But I can't say that it is much better then the other ones. It seems to me, that no historian can dig up many documents about Ella after Serge is murdered. Between 1905 - 1918 there is not much information about Ella. In all books about her, this erea no historian could find a great deal of information about her.

Some points had to be lighten up next times such as:

The character of Ella as Russian Grand Duchess (in most books she is already a saint before and in her marriage, and from what I heard she had sometimes a difficult character, if it is true or not, a histiorian must look in documents and not digg out his/her information from other book sourches).

The relationships between Ella and her family (Hessian, Windsor, Romanov). What was her relationship between her and Maria F, Maria P. sr. etc, etc.

Many information is to find in letters she has written towards all members of her family and friends. Where are these letters? It seems no historian could find many.

I think personally that this book would be better, if Warwick had quoted some things, out the book of Ms Croft. Because I could not find any single quotation from Christina's book, I think that his recearch was not so good as all. Otherwise he would mention Ms Croft on a certain way.

Personally, in the future 1 historian must combine all books to one book. For example, some information in Warwicks book I couldn't  find in Ms Croft book and vice versa.

For the photo's. I thought the photo's in ms Croft book were better. For a "great historian" as Warwick seems to be for some people in this board, I think he could better use more photo's from different life times of Ella.
I explain: Ella's life time you can seperate easily: yougth, marriage, widower (sic) and saint/nun. (I really think, that someone must put a coffee table book together of this lady, who is beautiful photographed).

Gr. Teddy




 
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Ilana on December 15, 2006, 11:19:52 AM
...and yet, beautifully written as it was, Ms Croft's book had no real primary resources and Mr. Warwick's does.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Prince_Lieven on December 15, 2006, 11:26:13 AM
Does it contain inaccuracies then?  ???
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Teddy on December 15, 2006, 12:07:29 PM
...and yet, beautifully written as it was, Ms Croft's book had no real primary resources and Mr. Warwick's does.

For someone who is a big "historian" as Mr. Warwick I expected more of this book. But I must say its a great book.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Eddie_uk on December 15, 2006, 03:12:22 PM
Does it contain inaccuracies then?  ???

I hope not. There really is no excuse for it.  ::)
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Georgiy on December 20, 2006, 10:41:21 PM
Well, it says that Orthodox Easter is 35 days after the first full moon after the vernal equinox, which is not true. It is the first Sunday after the first full moon after the vernal equinox that comes after the Jewish Passover. Easter can not be celebrated before or on the same day as Passover.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: imperial angel on January 23, 2007, 05:06:52 PM
I really enjoyed the photos in this book. I thought that it was a good book, very well researched and factual, without much speculation. I guess I like to read speculation sometimes, but it might belong on threads, not in books. You learn much solid info on Ella from this biography, and you get close to things as they happened, the whole book is very well put together and authoritative. I have never read the Croft bio, so I don't know the comparison there. How do you think this compares with the other bio of Ella, not the Croft one, but the earlier one?
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Helen_Azar on January 23, 2007, 05:58:31 PM
Easter can not be celebrated before or on the same day as Passover.

Why not?


How do you think this compares with the other bio of Ella, not the Croft one, but the earlier one?

Do you mean the Mager one?
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: imperial angel on January 23, 2007, 06:27:42 PM
Yes. I read so many comparisons with Crofts book that I thought some comparisons with the other book might be interesting. I read it, but it was a while ago.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Belochka on January 23, 2007, 07:01:39 PM
Yes. I read so many comparisons with Crofts book that I thought some comparisons with the other book might be interesting. I read it, but it was a while ago.

The book as expected is written from a British perspective which provides an interesting contrast to those written by Russian historians which emphasize more of her life and death in Russia.

Lubov Millar prefers a more religious focus to her writing as is evident by the title of her distinctive book. Because of that emphasis she glosses over the more contentious personal issues.

Margarita
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Ortino on January 24, 2007, 12:04:55 AM
Easter can not be celebrated before or on the same day as Passover.

Why not?


I believe the idea is that the Crucifixion and Resurrection took place after Jesus entered Jerusalem to celebrate Passover.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Georgiy on January 24, 2007, 04:32:24 AM
I think Ortino is right. Anyway, from ancient times, the Church canons have directed it must be after Jewish Passover. This was also the case in the Western churches, and I read in some article from the 1800s there was some consternation when Easter happened to be before Passover (in the West). With the calendar difference, it happens more and more often now that Easter in the west is celebrated before Passover, which is why the Orthodox Churches which use the new calendar, still celebrate Easter on the old (like in Greece), though I understand the Church in Finland uses the western date for Easter, though I don't know why.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Helen_Azar on January 24, 2007, 07:42:45 AM
Easter can not be celebrated before or on the same day as Passover.

Why not?


I believe the idea is that the Crucifixion and Resurrection took place after Jesus entered Jerusalem to celebrate Passover.

Yes, of course this is true. I am just surprised that the Orthodox Church would regard the Jewish calendar this much.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Ilana on January 24, 2007, 01:02:44 PM
Agreed!
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: matushka on January 24, 2007, 04:07:27 PM
If I had to read only one book about Ella, which one could you advice me (I can read french, russian, english and a little bit german)? I am looking for some more complete historical perspective, as I already know the hagiographic point of view not too bad!
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: grandduchessella on January 24, 2007, 11:50:28 PM
I'm not through with it yet but from what I've read so far, and based on what others have said about this and other bios, I'd say the Warwick book would be the way to go.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Belochka on January 25, 2007, 12:40:14 AM
If I had to read only one book about Ella, which one could you advice me (I can read french, russian, english and a little bit german)? I am looking for some more complete historical perspective, as I already know the hagiographic point of view not too bad!

Any recommendation would be based on whether you prefer a book that deals with her life on one level or one which places a religious emphasis to her life.

Saying that we must not forget Christine Croft's recent book on Ella.

Personally I buy them all - in Russian and English, because they all offer a different perspective.

Margarita  :)
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: imperial angel on January 25, 2007, 10:12:32 AM
I'm not through with it yet but from what I've read so far, and based on what others have said about this and other bios, I'd say the Warwick book would be the way to go.

I think it tends to be the most factual, compared with the other one I have read.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Eurohistory on January 25, 2007, 11:25:46 AM
I am reading the Warwick book right now...and yes it is far more factual.

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Ilana on January 25, 2007, 11:38:38 AM
...and based on primary research...and documents from the Russian archives....
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Eurohistory on January 25, 2007, 02:00:02 PM
Well researched, no doubt!

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Kimberly on January 25, 2007, 04:48:50 PM
Well, I would love to get my hands on Christina's book ;)
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: bkg on January 25, 2007, 04:56:55 PM
I'm reading this book (by Warwick) right now and enjoying it greatly.  A great deal of research seems to have been done prior to writing the book.

Barbara
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: sydguy71 on January 29, 2007, 04:57:57 AM
I have just started reading this book......I agree with fellow forum members, a great book, and eay to read.
Brett
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: koloagirl on February 12, 2007, 05:45:39 PM
 :D

Have to put in my vote for the book by Christina Croft as well!  I read it last year and thought it was great! 

I'm sure that I will read the Warwick book as well -- after all, you can't read too many Romanov books!!??   ;D :P :-X
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Marlene on February 13, 2007, 10:36:39 AM
One of the problems with Christina's well-written book, is that it did not tell us anything new ... no access to important archives.  For another, the author didn't even bother to tell us where and when she was born.  There was also a lot of imagination without basis - the opening, for example, where Ella arrives in Russia ... it was purely speculation because Ella's paper trail is rather limited.  We have no idea what she could have been thinking or seeing because she herself did not tell us.

Christopher's book is a well-crafted biography, well-researched and with access to more material than other biographers, which is a good thing.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Teddy on February 13, 2007, 10:53:28 AM
One of the problems with Christina's well-written book, is that it did not tell us anything new ... no access to important archives.  For another, the author didn't even bother to tell us where and when she was born.  There was also a lot of imagination without basis - the opening, for example, where Ella arrives in Russia ... it was purely speculation because Ella's paper trail is rather limited.  We have no idea what she could have been thinking or seeing because she herself did not tell us.

Christopher's book is a well-crafted biography, well-researched and with access to more material than other biographers, which is a good thing.

I must truly say that you have a good point. BUT, Warwick is a proffesional writer and Christina doesn't its started out of a hobby. This was her first try out. So ofcourse Warwicks" book is some better, because this was COMPLETE new for her.

I think it was also the job of EUROHISTORY, to tell ms Croft, what kind of improvements she had to do. Where she must think about for not to forget to mention. Its' also the job of Eurohistory to re-read the book, before publishing and to tell Ms Croft his/her opinion.

Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Sarai on February 13, 2007, 03:18:13 PM
I have read both books and do prefer Warwick's biography. It is better researched and covers Ella's life in depth. I remember reading Cristina's biography and being somewhat disappointed by the information provided about her childhood in particular. Warwick offers much more information on her early years, plus I learned more about the type of work that her convent did, the extent of which I was previously unaware (I haven't read too much about Ella).

That being said, I do appreciate Cristina's effort as a labor of love written by someone who, as I recall, really admires Ella. I agree with Teddy that she was not a professional author as Warwick is, and as a result probably had access to a lot less information and archival material. It's a nice effort, though, and it's worthwhile to read both accounts if possible to get different viewpoints and information. But as a more serious, objective, and well-researched work I would still recommend Warwick above all.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Ilana on February 13, 2007, 07:05:53 PM
EUROHISTORY did read Christina's book and give their opinion.  What I believe that the publishers tried to present was an introduction to Ella.  Nothing new or startling -- and for someone who knew nothing about her, I see this as a good place at which to start, no more, no less.  Christina was well aware that she didn't use primary resources...
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Helen_Azar on February 13, 2007, 07:21:55 PM
I don't think Christina ever claimed that there would be anything "new or startling" in her book. Her biography is well written, and very readable. She made Ella seem human and not just some abstract historical figure; and these are the things I normally look for in a biography. I don't think we should dismiss a book just because no primary sources/archives were used - it depends on your purpose of course - but if we look at it that way, this would mean that many biographies should be dismissed.   

Here is a review excerpt about Christina's book:

"... A thoroughly good read about a vanished way of life and a remarkable woman. A must-read for those addicted to Russian history, it will also appeal to devotees of historical and royal biography. I recommend it."

Mary S. Lovell, Author of Straight On Till Morning, The Mitford Girls (titled The Sisters in the USA) , and Bess Of Hardwick.

In 2003, Christina's biography of Grand Duchess Elizaveta Feodorovna of Russia, was short listed for the Biographers’ Club Award.
Christina has written from as far back as she can remember, her earliest success coming at the age of twelve when a poem was accepted for publication. Since then she has published two books of poetry as well as writing for the poetry magazines Aereopagus, Helicon and Cherrybite. Working as a poet-in-the-community, she worked with children of different backgrounds, assisting them to express themselves through literature, and participated in the creation of an anthology of their work.


Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: ChristineM on February 14, 2007, 05:40:00 AM
As Marlene most certainly knows, behind every good author is an even better editor, and, it goes without saying, publilsher.

The ramifications of the publication of this book marked a very unfortunate episode in Christina's past and that particular part of her past she would, quite understandably, prefer to forget.

Christina wrote a book out of the deepest regard and respect, and in memory of the Grand Duchess Elizabeth Feodorovna of Russia.   She was not entering a competition.

Being the forgiving, and quite remarkable, woman she is, Christina has put the past behind her and moved on.   Perhaps her example should be followed here.

tsaria
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Arleen on February 14, 2007, 08:52:18 AM
Dear Friends.....Those of us  who went thru Christina Croft's agony with her editor and publisher, Art Beeche and know the love and care she put into her book Ella, only to have it come out looking like a kindergarten class had printed it.....we know never to give credit to anything Art might have to say in review about any book!

I agree wholeheartedly with Tsaria....its best to put that ugly episode away and let it be forgotten....too many people were hurt beside Christina over that.   (Personally I would never buy anything that came out of Art's press, for any reason....)

Arleen
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Marlene on February 15, 2007, 09:38:38 AM
Tsaria,

In this this regard, we are in complete agreement, certainly in the editorial aspect. 
One of the problems with Christina's well-written book, is that it did not tell us anything new ... no access to important archives.  For another, the author didn't even bother to tell us where and when she was born.  There was also a lot of imagination without basis - the opening, for example, where Ella arrives in Russia ... it was purely speculation because Ella's paper trail is rather limited.  We have no idea what she could have been thinking or seeing because she herself did not tell us.

Christopher's book is a well-crafted biography, well-researched and with access to more material than other biographers, which is a good thing.

I must truly say that you have a good point. BUT, Warwick is a proffesional writer and Christina doesn't its started out of a hobby. This was her first try out. So ofcourse Warwicks" book is some better, because this was COMPLETE new for her.

I think it was also the job of EUROHISTORY, to tell ms Croft, what kind of improvements she had to do. Where she must think about for not to forget to mention. Its' also the job of Eurohistory to re-read the book, before publishing and to tell Ms Croft his/her opinion.


Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Marlene on February 15, 2007, 11:08:43 AM
Arleen,

I think it is wrong to tar Art for everything.  The author needs to question, to ask questions, to demand answers.  The author does need a competent, trusting editor.  That said, it is wrong to tar all ills against Art, and to say you would never buy anything published him, etc.  It may have been a learning experience all around.  However, as a published author, but certainly not in the first tier, I have no problems in being published by Art, whether in his magazine or book chapters.  I wrote one chapter for Grand Duchesses (and at the last minute), and also one chapter for Grand Dukes.

Dear Friends.....Those of us  who went thru Christina Croft's agony with her editor and publisher, Art Beeche and know the love and care she put into her book Ella, only to have it come out looking like a kindergarten class had printed it.....we know never to give credit to anything Art might have to say in review about any book!

I agree wholeheartedly with Tsaria....its best to put that ugly episode away and let it be forgotten....too many people were hurt beside Christina over that.   (Personally I would never buy anything that came out of Art's press, for any reason....)

Arleen
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: imperial angel on February 15, 2007, 11:28:06 AM
I am glad I learned more about the Croft book from reading this thread. I got more of a sense of what it was like. But, I just like to read about that, and not about the issues surrounding its publication...
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Alixz on April 24, 2007, 08:28:57 AM
I just finished Ella: Princess, Saint and Martyr by Christopher Warwick.

It seems no matter how many books, I read about Ella, and I have Christina Croft's book and Hugo Mayer's, I still have trouble seeing the young Ella.  The Ella as Princess of Hesse and house guest of Queen Victoria.

I can't explain it.  I just can't get a clear picture of Ella as a young girl.  I want to "see" this wondrous beauty and get to know the young girl who married at 19.

However, that being said,  Warwick's book, with some minor and obvious flaws was a good read.  He tries hard to present all of the views that have been accepted as fact over the years and to dig for the hidden truth behind all of them.  He spends time with Ella as she builds her convent and not much time with her as she went out into the slums of Moscow to help the poor.

I am trying for a second read of the early chapters to dig again for the story behind the myths of her engagement to Serge.  Much of what Warwick quotes is from the letters of Victoria Milford-Haven. (I suppose that Ella's correspondence has been destroyed and Serge's was burned by his request after his death.) So we have little of Ella's own thoughts.  There are some of her letters to Queen Victoria about her engagement but nothing between Serge and herself.

I did enjoy the book and would recommend it.

Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Sarushka on April 24, 2007, 08:32:57 AM
Quote
However, that being said,  Warwick's book, with some minor and obvious flaws was a good read.

What are those flaws, in your opinion?
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: TheAce1918 on April 24, 2007, 01:16:41 PM
Yes what are your opinions on it?  I've been dying to get ahold of this text.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Alixz on April 24, 2007, 04:50:47 PM
One of the flaws is his repeating of Massie's "oarlock" incident at Spala. Which in another thread we have shown is conjecture and that Alexis was really injured earlier by jumping out of a bath tub.

His sentences are overly long with lots of clauses and commas and can lead to confusion as to the point. (That's just me, though)

Over all it is a good read.  There is quite a lot about Serge's personal life while young.  A great deal of speculation about his sexual preferences as now KR's diaries have shown his.

But as I said before, I still can't "see" Ella. 
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: griffh on April 25, 2007, 10:12:02 AM
What I found so valuable about Warwick's book was the new information and how Warwick gives us a much fuller understanding of the first years of the reign with details about Ella's close involvement in the redecoration of the Winter Palace suite for Nicky and Alix, etc.  From her letters Ella seems to have been very involved in her sister's life until the fallout resulting from the tragic event during the coronation in the meadow of K. field.  I learned so much more about how the vicious press campaign that persued Ella and Sergei in 1896-7 and appeared to have forced the two sister's apart and how Ella states that she was grateful that the two sisters lived in different cities because it would quite the gossip mongers. 

I also was deeply impressed by the image of Ella and Minny on their knees praying for the well being of Alix during that gruelling and prolonged labour while giving birth to Olga.  Warwick gives us such a tender picture of that birth.   

While there is such interesting information about Ella all the way throught the book to the WW in 1914, a shadow does descend on Ella and she remains a mystery women during the war years.  As an example, I find that before the war years Warwick is willing to reveal Ella's tragic relationship with GD Marie and that disasterous marriage she appeared to have pushed her niece into.  Warwick is honest and willing to reveal the complexity and negative aspects of Ella's character in that section of the book by quoting the GD Marie's letters about Ella's treatment of her.  But when it comes to the war years, when Ella becomes an outspoken critic, if not a political enemy of her sister, but there are no letters, nothing new in a period fraught with intrigue which Ella became caught up in and which have never been explained. 

I was hoping that, given the earlier new information, that there would be some kind of exploration of the complex relationship between Ella and Ziniada Yusupov that could start to unlock Ella's attitudes and activities during the war years.  There is no information about Ella's take on Ziniada's funding of political plots that were directed at the Empress in late 1915 or why Ziniada finally turned on Ella and considered her ridiculous as a nun in 1916.  But this is not so much a criticism of Warwick as it is in general of the way this period is handled. 

I find the Warwick book beautifully wriiten and filled with new information of the period up to the WW.  I must add that I feel that one of the helpful things about British biographers writing about such British-bred Princess as Ella, is that there appears to me to be a shared dignity; something about one's duty and honor that feels inherent in both biographer and his subject and that helps unlock the motivation of such a British-bred Princess such as Ella, at least I feel this in connection with Ella's committment to Sergei.       
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Svetabel on April 25, 2007, 11:05:39 AM

But as I said before, I still can't "see" Ella. 

Here I agree. Also I agree that the book is a good read witn some new facts and info, but it's really hard  to "see" and "feel " Ella. I expected more from the Warwick book though he did a very good search and work.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Alixz on April 25, 2007, 11:11:22 AM
Griffh,

You are right as usual.  A very good review of the book, by the way.  I just think that not much was left by way of correspondence for us to study.

Because Serge asked for his papers to be burned and Ella gave up and gave away so much of her material possessions and there appears to be no diary, our knowledge is limited.

Warwick also reveals that Marie Pavlovna probably "slanted" her writings about Ella.  In her letters to the Prince of Sweden, Marie Pavlovna sounds like a typical in love bride to be.  I have always maintained that Marie Pavlovna was a selfish brat.  I think that Warwick hints at that as well. It doesn't seem possible that Ella could have been a cold and cruel to Marie as Marie writes.

There are times when Marie actually goes to Ella when she knows that Ella needs comfort.  I don't think that Marie would have done that had their relationship been a dismal as Marie portrayed it.

Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: griffh on April 25, 2007, 02:19:03 PM
Alixz I certainly do agree with you about Marie being delibrately negative about Ella and Warwick does seem to hint that Marie was being unfair.  But all the same there does seem to be something harsh in Ella's relationship with Marie, and so unlike her relationship with Dimitri.  In spite of my saying this, I do think the fact, after her divorce and her return to Russia, that Marie wanted to follow in Ella's footsteps really proves your point that Marie earlier letters had misrepresented Ella. 

I have a feeling that there is a great deal more information about Ella during those war years that will eventually surface, probably not in personal letters or diaries, but possibly in political memoirs.  As an example, the former Duma member, Paul Gronsky tells us in his book, "The War and the Russian Government," that the Imperial ukase of August 11, 1914 that formed the Supreme Council for the Care of Soldiers' Families, and of Families of the Wounded and the Dead, under the Presidency of the Empress Alexandra also appointed Ella and Alix's daughter Olga as Vice-Presidents of the Council.  Apparently from information obtainable from the Empress' letters in 1914, Ella was actively interacting with Alix in connection with War Relief and organization.  There has to be more information about Ella and her activity as Vice President of Supreme Council. 

I do agree that family diaries and letters probably do not hold the key to the war years as they have either been lost or edited but I feel that between Ella's war work and her political connections with Samarin and that entire Moscow group, there eventually will appear enought information to make Ella come alive in 1915-1917.  I could be totally wrong about this. 
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Alixz on April 25, 2007, 03:18:46 PM
Griffh,

One thing that you just reminded me of.  The mention of letters between Ella and Grand Duchess Olga Nicholaevna.  That was new to me and brought Olga a little more color.

I do hope that someone will find enough information to publish a book about OTMA.  Obviously they weren't just sitting in the school room.  They had lives and went out into the world.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: griffh on April 26, 2007, 07:14:43 AM
Alixz that is a great point.  In the Empress' correspondence for October 21, 1914 she mentions how grateful she is that both Olga and Tatiana act independently.  She tells Nicky:  "Now 0. and T. are at Olga's Committee - before that Tatiana received Neidhardt alone for half an hour with his report - its so good for the girls and they learn to become independent and it will develop them much more having to think and speak for themselves, without my constant aid. – "

Either Shulgin or Gronsky mention that Tatiana really took hold of her Committee with great enthusiasm.  An Imperial ukase in September 14, 1914 gave Tatiana her own Committee called the Committee of the Grand Duchess Tatiana for the Temporary Relief of War Sufferers."  As President Tatiana, with the approval of the Empress, appointed the vice presidents and the members from the offices of the Ministries of the Interior, War, Transport, and Finance and Tatiana could also invite any other individual to her committee meetings that she felt could help the committee in its relief work.  I found the quote and it is from Gronsky, "Unlike the Supreme Councils, the Committee of the Grand Duchess Tatiana proved itself an active and energetic institution."   In one of the newer biographies Olga's solo visits to Irina Yusupov is mentioned, I think in connection with her distain of Felix's presence in town when everyone else was at war.  So both Olga and Tatiana must have had fuller lives than general beliefs about them allow for. 

I too hope that enough information will appear that will allow for a biography of Olga and Tatiana.  I believe that the Danish archives are still sealed.  I hope I am misinformed but that must be a gold mine of information.  Well anyway I am so grateful for everyone who has written about the IF and I always love to quote my favorite French historian, Jacques Barzun, "There is nothing personal about facts, but there is about choosing and grouping them.  It is by the patterning and hte meanings ascribed that the vision is conveyed.  And this, if anything, is what each historian adds to the general understanding.  Read more than one historian and the chances are good that you will come closer and closer to the full complexity.  Whoever wants an absolute copy of what happened must gain access to the mind of God."   

 
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Ortino on January 05, 2008, 12:40:29 PM
Sorry if this has been posted already. I didn't see any other threads about it. It seems that Robert Alexander (author of "The Kitchen Boy" and "Rasputin's Daughter") is publishing a new book in April. It's called "The Romanov Bride" and focuses on Elizabeth Feodorovna.

Here's the amazon link for anyone interested in ordering it:

http://www.amazon.com/Romanov-Bride-Robert-Alexander/dp/0670018813/ref=cm_lmf_tit_23_rdssss1

And here's the summary from his website:

http://www.sitestories.com/theromanovbride/
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Robert_Hall on January 05, 2008, 01:09:35 PM
Thank you for mentioning this title. I did enjoy The Kitchen Boy [not so much Rasputin's daughter though]. I will give this a try. Nice to read a bit of fiction now and then.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: s.v.markov on January 07, 2008, 10:00:30 AM
Yes, I agree it's a fine book, especially for its in-depth analysis of the Grand Duke Serge Alexandrovich's character, but I also liked Christina Croft's book 'Ella' very much. And, going much further back in time, I remember as a student being captivated by the Grand Duchess Ella when I first read her story in E.M. Almedingen's 'An Unbroken Unity' in the '60's ~ my own interest has been 'unbroken' since that time.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Nala on January 08, 2008, 03:18:25 AM
I have purchased C. Warwick's book and love it!

Ofcourse i do not know if all his facts are straight, as i do not know much about the GD, but it is a good read regardless
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: koloagirl on February 17, 2008, 08:26:28 PM

Aloha from Kaua'i!

I am excited about this book as well -- I purchased a copy on EBay -- it is the one that goes out to industry folks before the actual run?  I don't know what that is called I'm afraid.  I should be getting it any day now!

I'll report on it when I start reading it!

Janet R.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: matushka on February 24, 2008, 03:42:59 PM
Yes, the last summer the Novospassky monastery in Moscow published a gorgious photo album of Ella, Sviataya prepodobnomuchenitsa Elisaveta Fiodorovna, fotoalbom with the benediction of Moscow's patriarch. As I am not specialist in this question, I can not say are the photo rares or not (probably not), but it is really beautiful as an edition.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Svetabel on February 25, 2008, 12:40:17 AM
Yes, the last summer the Novospassky monastery in Moscow published a gorgious photo album of Ella, Sviataya prepodobnomuchenitsa Elisaveta Fiodorovna, fotoalbom with the benediction of Moscow's patriarch. As I am not specialist in this question, I can not say are the photo rares or not (probably not), but it is really beautiful as an edition.

Yes, the edition is rare and wonderful but soo difficult to find...(((
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: matushka on February 25, 2008, 09:49:38 AM
I find my at the Sretensky bookshop...
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: grandduchessella on February 25, 2008, 11:14:20 AM
Does anyone have the ISBN for it?
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Svetabel on February 25, 2008, 11:34:38 AM
Does anyone have the ISBN for it?

Of course 978-5-87389-037-8
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: grandduchessella on February 25, 2008, 11:40:25 AM
Thanks, Svetabel--your the best. I tried plugging it into our interlibrary loan database, though, and nothing came up. I guess it really is rare.  :(
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Thomas_Hesse on March 15, 2008, 01:24:51 PM
It is hopefully better than all the other "books" on the Grand Duchess...
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: matushka on March 15, 2008, 03:45:00 PM
I read the Warnick's biography in english, read in russian Materialy k jitiyou... and of course the threads of this board. What could you recommand me also? I am looking for non fictionalized biography with more amphasy about her life as a none, as "Ella, princess, saint and martyr" is great for the earlier period.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: grandduchessella on March 15, 2008, 07:21:41 PM
For a concentration on her religious life, Lubov Millar's biography (published over a decade ago) is a good read--that's the primary thrust of the book.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Robert Alexander on March 29, 2008, 11:34:41 AM
Hi, thank you for your interest in my new book...!  And if any of you have time, starting March 31 I'll be doing a series of live webcasts from my home office -- you'll be able to see and hear me in real time as I discuss my books, and I'll be taking questions via email.  Please join me!  For more details go to "live webcasts" at: www.theromanovbride.com

Thanks so much, and all best, Robert (Alexander)
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Helen_Azar on March 31, 2008, 12:19:35 PM
Hi, thank you for your interest in my new book...!  And if any of you have time, starting March 31 I'll be doing a series of live webcasts from my home office -- you'll be able to see and hear me in real time as I discuss my books, and I'll be taking questions via email.  Please join me!  For more details go to "live webcasts" at: www.theromanovbride.com

Thanks so much, and all best, Robert (Alexander)

Thank you, Robert! I'm listening right now :-)
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Robert Alexander on April 01, 2008, 10:46:28 AM
Thank you, Helen for joining me on the online webcast.  I hope you enjoyed it...and would love if any and all would join me for another webcast on Wednesday April 2 at 1pm Eastern Standard Time or 8pm Eastern Standard time.  Just go to www.theromanovbride.com for webcast details...you'll be able to see and hear me, and I'll be able to take your questions.  All best, Robert
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: FairyCutie86 on April 01, 2008, 06:58:03 PM
I'm interested in reading this.  From the description it sounds rather intriguing.  I personally loved "The Kitchen Boy" and I can't wait to see how this goes.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: wildone on April 01, 2008, 07:56:12 PM
Will the podcasts be archived so that people who did not make the live broadcasts could listen?
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Robert Alexander on April 02, 2008, 10:41:45 AM
Hi, I'm doing two more live video webcasts today (April 2) and then a handful more April 16-20.  After that I'll be posting some of the recorded webcasts, and I'll be doing more live ones in May.  For exact time and dates check www.theromanovbride.com and/or sign up for my mailing list.  Thanks!  Robert
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: koloagirl on April 02, 2008, 03:36:08 PM
Aloha from Kaua'i!

I've just signed up - hope I'm not too late for today's broadcast -- since I live in Hawai'i I'm 6 (?) hours behind the east coast, so hopefully I've made it!

Looking forward to it - have read all your Romanov novels and enjoyed them all!

Malama Pono,
Janet
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Alixz on April 02, 2008, 11:10:45 PM
OK - If I can't say anything nice, I shouldn't say anything at all.  However just having finished Elizabeth & Alexandra I am up to my ears in  Romanov fiction.

We all know what happened to Ella and it had nothing to do with a man named Pavel whose bride was killed in a peaceful demonstration. The trailers make it sound as if history was somehow altered by this Pavel and that he alone determines the fate of Ella.    Bosh!  Hype!

Why would serious students of history and historical researchers want to read a book like this?

Robert - no disrespect at all.  I have a languishing copy of an historical romance about Romanovs and Sax - Coburg - Gothas lying in my bottom drawer.  I know that it is impossible to resist the urge to write fictional accounts of historical events. But this sound so formulaic I am just surprised is all.

Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Helen_Azar on April 03, 2008, 08:22:00 AM
However just having finished Elizabeth & Alexandra I am up to my ears in  Romanov fiction.

Well, there is *historical fiction* and there is historical fiction. There is not a lot of good Romanov historical fiiction out there, I'll give you that, but as long as the "dramatized" facts are close to accurate and not too much artistic license is used, I am always willing to give it a shot!  Good historical fiction can be very entertaining.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Sarushka on April 03, 2008, 09:56:03 AM
Why would serious students of history and historical researchers want to read a book like this?

Escapism, entertainment... Fiction of any kind isn't of any particular use for students or researchers, but I doubt that's the audience Mr. Alexander has in mind for his books.


As Helen said, I do think there are two kinds of historical fiction:
1. The "what if" style that winds a fictional scenario into history to create an exciting yarn
2. The more "documentary" style that uses the inherent drama of a real situation to give insight into people and events

Of course, plenty of historical novels blend the two styles in varying proportions. Some people have a high tolerance for the first type, and some don't. It's a matter of taste. Personally, the more I know about a topic, the more I prefer the second type. But every now and then, a book or a movie can make me overlook my persnickety need for maximum accuracy. Books like Robert Alexander's and movies like the 1956 Anastasia are two examples. I know the details have been loosenend up, but when the storytelling is good enough, I 'm willing to just sit back and enjoy the ride. ; )

Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Helen_Azar on April 03, 2008, 10:07:46 AM
Why would serious students of history and historical researchers want to read a book like this?
As Helen said, I do think there are two kinds of historical fiction:
1. The "what if" style that winds a fictional scenario into history to create an exciting yarn
2. The more "documentary" style that uses the inherent drama of a real situation to give insight into people and events

I usually prefer the latter too, but sometimes, when it's really well written, the former works very well (especially when all the facts are not really known). For example, I just read a novel about the Lizzie Borden murders by Evan Hunter, which was sort of a mix of both, btu what made it interesting was the fictional part, not the factual one. The author used real court transcripts interwoven with a completely fictional "what if" account. The result was an excellent novel of suspense which actually gave some realistic twist to the story... It was an absolutely great read and I actually learned a lot!

So there is no reason to completely write off historical fiction, even as a learning tool, although there is some really bad stuff out there too :-p. 
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Sarushka on April 03, 2008, 10:23:05 AM
So there is no reason to completely write off historical fiction, even as a learning tool, although there is some really bad stuff out there too :-p. 

That's quite true -- I have no patience for historical novels that contradict the documented personalities of their characters, or disregard the sensibilities of the time & place.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Robert Alexander on April 03, 2008, 10:37:28 AM
Thank you, Alixz, for bringing up a really excellent point...and I agree, I'm not altogether sure that historical fiction is entirely appropriate for serious students of history as well as historical researchers.   Students and researchers should and must focus on the facts as they happened, and it's all to easy to trip up on details in a fictional story.  Where I think that historical fiction has a great deal of value is serving the lay reader -- I hope my novels about revolutionary Russia will serve as way to stimulate interest in that period and serve, per se, as bridges that readers will cross to more complex books about the subject.  I've spoken to hundreds of book clubs, and my novels have stimulated a lot of discussion about subjects and events which the book club members were previously unaware.

Personally, I like historical fiction because I think that in studying a period you need not only to know the exact facts, but also you need to understand the emotions of the people who made the decisions that became the facts (and writing and recreating emotions is a very gray area for historians).  Ultimately the facts are obviously the most important, but understanding a person of history by entering their world in a fictional story has value because it helps to understand one more facet of a complex period, and of course the fall of the Romanovs is about as complex as they come.  Of course this all has to be done with respect to the actual events and admiration for the people you are writing about -- you can't exploit history for the sake of entertainment, but you can exploit entertainment for the sake of a deeper understanding of history (at least if you do it tastefully and accurately).  In Rasputin's Daughter I wrote a scene where they are all sitting around the dinner table, and while I know of no exact memoir that relates such a dinner, I created a scene of what I felt accurately reflected the trials, the issues, and the love that bound Rasputin with his children -- and it's a scene which I hope leads the reader to a greater understanding of that man and his involvement with the Imperial Family.

In writing The Romanov Bride I tried to recreate the life and times of Grand Duchess Elizabeth as accurately as I could by using her diaries and letters -- in other words, her own words.  Veering into fiction, I learned of her solo trips into the slums of Moscow, and while I know of no specific gritty details of any of her trips there, I created a scene where she attends to a prostitute -- on the one hand her words and what she did in my scene are not historically accurate at all, but on the other hand I think the scene is wholly accurate because it recreates and captures her integrity, good intentions, and I hope "aura."  So, hopefully via fiction (rather than via the straight facts) the reader is able to come to a not historically accurate but perhaps more fundamentally "real" understanding of the woman and who she was.  Does that make any sense?

Of course in writing about this spectacular woman I had to set her in an historically accurate time, in other words recreate somehow the dramas that she and her beloved country were facing.  With that in mind I came up with the character, Pavel, who is wholly fictional but inspired by revolutionaries of that period, and who, while fictional, accurately portrays the issues of the time.  In other words I created Pavel not just as a foil for Ella, but as a way of dramatizing what she was facing and, importantly, why she was faced with these issues.  I greatly admire GD Elizabeth because she was one of the very few who recognized the inequities of the time and who tried to address these issues with her entire soul and being.  Too, I'm fascinated by people like her who, when faced with tragedy, turned down an enlightened path when it would have been easier to take the darker one, which was the path that so many revolutionaries took all to no avail (they frequently were killed by the revolution for which they had killed, which is ultimately the story of Pavel).

I hope that makes some sense.  I'll be doing more webcasts starting April 16, so please come and ask excellent questions like this!  Also, my book club guide will soon be up on my website, so that will have more of my ramblings...

All best, Robert

Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Sarushka on April 03, 2008, 11:53:09 AM
Personally, I like historical fiction because I think that in studying a period you need not only to know the exact facts, but also you need to understand the emotions of the people who made the decisions that became the facts (and writing and recreating emotions is a very gray area for historians). 
[...]
In writing The Romanov Bride I tried to recreate the life and times of Grand Duchess Elizabeth as accurately as I could by using her diaries and letters -- in other words, her own words.  Veering into fiction, I learned of her solo trips into the slums of Moscow, and while I know of no specific gritty details of any of her trips there, I created a scene where she attends to a prostitute -- on the one hand her words and what she did in my scene are not historically accurate at all, but on the other hand I think the scene is wholly accurate because it recreates and captures her integrity, good intentions, and I hope "aura."  So, hopefully via fiction (rather than via the straight facts) the reader is able to come to a not historically accurate but perhaps more fundamentally "real" understanding of the woman and who she was.  Does that make any sense?

YES. I think that's why my hackles rise when people brush off historical fiction as "just entertainment." Fiction allows you to explore the emotional truth of history without the restrictions inherent in non-fiction.

As author Patricia Polacco's Russian grandmother used to say, "Of course it's true. It just never happened."
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Alixz on April 03, 2008, 06:25:54 PM
Robert - thank you for your kind response. 

I think I was just so disappointed in Elizabeth & Alexandra that when I read this thread, I thought, oh no, here we go again.  I have never read The Kitchen Boy or Rasputin's Daughter, but I know that many here have.

It just seemed so strange that those who fight so hard for accuracy and sources on this forum would be reading "fiction" and jumping for joy.

Of course I know that reading should not be all work and no play and reading for relaxation is a good thing.  I just took a break after a hard slough through four Hapsburg bios and histories to read Duma Key by Stephen King.  I needed the break.

Perhaps, since I have that "languishing" manuscript in my bottom drawer, I should read your books to find out what it is that publishers like and what it is that they know that your readers like. 

I actually surprised myself by what I posted.  As with anyone who spends years researching and writing and editing a manuscript, I would love to see it published.  It is "historical fiction" and involves the Romanovs.  My co-author and I wrote it between 1979 and 1982.  A very long time ago in what seems like another galaxy.

Robert - are a gentleman for answering my rough assessment with such grace and style.  I apologize for the tone of my post.  But I am very glad that you answered me.

Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Sarushka on April 03, 2008, 09:05:48 PM
It just seemed so strange that those who fight so hard for accuracy and sources on this forum would be reading "fiction" and jumping for joy.

There's definitely something to that! ; )
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Helen_Azar on April 04, 2008, 09:20:44 AM
It just seemed so strange that those who fight so hard for accuracy and sources on this forum would be reading "fiction" and jumping for joy.

Not at all strange. Accuracy and sources are a must for non-fiction (or what tries to pass for non-fiction), for historical fiction accuracy would be nice, but as long as it is presented as fiction it is not imperative, and the author does have a certain amoung of leeway. But not too much - as long as it's historical fiction ;-). The level of artistic license we can accept in historical fiction is a matter of taste and various other things. I hope that makes more sense now. :-)
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Puppylove on April 04, 2008, 12:13:16 PM
It just seemed so strange that those who fight so hard for accuracy and sources on this forum would be reading "fiction" and jumping for joy.

Not at all strange. Accuracy and sources are a must for non-fiction (or what tries to pass for non-fiction), for historical fiction accuracy would be nice, but as long as it is presented as fiction it is not imperative, and the author does have a certain amoung of leeway. But not too much - as long as it's historical fiction ;-). The level of artistic license we can accept in historical fiction is a matter of taste and various other things. I hope that makes more sense now. :-)

Agreed. I read Susan Howatch's Cashelmara in the 80's and thought she used an interesting workaround. Each section of the book began with the king's name (Edwards I,II and III if I remember) and a brief paragraph about them. Then she moved the story hundreds of years forward and fictionalized the characters but the plot stayed true to the kings's lives. I found this a clever way of taking advantage of all the Plantagenet drama without the usual historical fiction restrictions.

In any case, I love a well-written historical novel and look forward to Mr. Alexander's book. The cover and the subject matter are both irresistable!

Jenn
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Robert Alexander on April 05, 2008, 12:50:45 PM
Alixz -- thanks for your note and there's no need to apologize because I think we rather agree, historical fiction crosses very thin ice and it must be done very carefully.  A friend of mine was ranting about a recent historical film set in England, yet the colors of the queen were entirely wrong -- a simple but vital detail that fact checking could have and should have easily solved.  Instead my friend was ripped out of the story, and the message was lost.  Similarly, I know of a very popular novel set in Leningrad -- but the beauty of the story was spoiled for me because the simple details of Leningrad (a city I've been visiting regularly since 1976) were wholly inaccurate.  So instead of enjoying the book I found myself groaning that no, that street is not there, that hotel is over there, and, wait, I personally know for a fact that that kind of food was absolutely not available!  Anyway, again please join me for more live webcasts starting April 16 -- the first few were very popular so we've added more, we had people from England all the way to Australia, and I would certainly enjoy questions from those with a good knowledge and passion for Russian history!  All best, Robert
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Dominic_Albanese on April 19, 2008, 09:12:52 AM
Since the author is posting here, I'm not sure if this new review will add much - but here goes:

http://www.startribune.com/entertainment/books/17865524.html

Bride of courage
A Romanov duchess seeking a more meaningful life and a village peasant seeking to escape poverty strike out on different paths that will dramatically cross.

By MICHAEL J. BONAFIELD, Star Tribune

Last update: April 18, 2008 - 8:01 AM

For 90 years this story has cried out to be told.

And who better to tell it than Robert Alexander, the talented Minneapolis author who has made a justifiably celebrated name for himself relating Russian history to Western readers in a collegial style that sacrifices neither accuracy nor authenticity?

With the successes of his two previous books on the Romanovs, "The Kitchen Boy" and "Rasputin's Daughter," he continues to mine the rich lode of the ill-fated ruling house with "The Romanov Bride," a compelling story of the Grand Duchess Elisavyeta.

Known to her family simply as Ella, she was one of the more fascinating women in an era that produced larger-than-life characters on an almost epic scale. Yet her story -- a unique and remarkably inspiring life cut short by a shocking death -- is largely unknown outside Russia and the Orthodox Christian community in the West. She was, to Western eyes, just one of the innumerable victims of revolution and civil war.

In Russia, Ella is not only widely known, but she has been declared a saint by the Orthodox Church -- a "new martyr" of the Bolshevik yoke -- and has a large and avidly devoted following among young people. How this happened is to be found in the pages of this nicely paced, beautifully presented and completely satisfying read.

Ella was the elder sister of Empress Alexandra, the consort of Tsar Nicholas II. What distinguished Ella from her sister was a childless, seemingly loveless marriage to Grand Duke Sergei, an uncle of the tsar and the iron-fisted, painfully reactionary governor of Moscow who was assassinated in February 1905.

Ella was, like most women born to her station, an ornament: Strikingly beautiful, inquisitive and skilled in the convoluted minutiae of the imperial court, she played her role as doyenne of Moscow society with diligence and grace. But there was another side to the grand duchess. She was innately and profoundly pious, and she lived her faith through actions.

"The day my husband was killed was the day I ... began to wear black garments and avoid festivities of any sort. ... That autumn I took a house beyond the walls of the Kremlin, and it was there that I organized a hospital for fifteen soldiers. ... I spent nearly every day there, for it was among the suffering of these simple men that I was able to forget my own grief and, too, to learn a new path."

The "new path" led her to vows as a nun and subsequently -- and against formidable odds -- the founding of a convent and the Order of Martha and Mary. This magnanimous endeavor would, in the maelstrom following the Bolshevik coup d'état, be her death warrant.

The author introduces the fictional character Pavel to juxtapose Ella's life of privilege and introspection with the daily hardships faced by ordinary Russians. Pavel and his wife, Shura, leave the countryside to seek better lives in St. Petersburg. If the dream eludes them, calamity does not, and Pavel is propelled inexorably first into the ranks of nihilist terrorists and, ultimately, the Bolsheviks.

This prince(ss)-and-the-pauper literary device can sometimes be pedestrian, but in Alexander's hands it works exceedingly well, giving us simultaneous yet diametrically opposed views of each incident. Ella and Pavel cross paths often, and the final reckoning -- like the final movement of a Rachmaninoff concerto -- builds to a breathtaking conclusion.

Alexander displays a truly solid footing in Russian history. His research is impeccable, and his knowledge of the Romanovs is encyclopedic, but he also is intimately familiar with the Orthodox faith. That is the key that has allowed him to unlock the hidden beauty -- and meaning -- of this remarkable story.

Michael J. Bonafield • 612-673-4215
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: s.v.markov on April 23, 2008, 07:10:20 AM
My copy has at last arrived here in England via Amazon UK! After reading all these opinions and the author's own thoughts, I can now actually start to read the book and see what I think myself. The 'Please do not disturb' notice is on the door!
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Helen_Azar on April 26, 2008, 07:42:43 AM
This is a question for Robert Alexander.

I was wondering what type of material you used for your research about Ella - did you use any primary archives or did you mainly base it on what is already out there? Thanks!

I  didn't get the book yet, but I will definitely get it when it comes to the US!
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Sarushka on April 26, 2008, 08:30:00 AM
I  didn't get the book yet, but I will definitely get it when it comes to the US!

Huh? The Romanov Bride is a US release from Viking Press, via Penguin-Putnam. It's been available since April 17th.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Helen_Azar on April 26, 2008, 08:44:43 AM
I  didn't get the book yet, but I will definitely get it when it comes to the US!

Huh? The Romanov Bride is a US release from Viking Press, via Penguin-Putnam. It's been available since April 17th.

I didn't check lately and I thought it wasn't available in the US yet. For some reason I thought s.v. markov ordered it from Britain because it wasn't available here yet, but now I see that he lives in England... Thanks.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: halen on May 10, 2008, 09:10:33 AM
Hi, and happy Saturday to everyone. Has anyone ad a chance to read Romanov Bride? I'm going to purchase it today and I was hoping for feedback/reviews from those who have read the book.

Louise
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Helen_Azar on May 10, 2008, 09:19:24 AM
I just finished reading it yesterday...

Here are my thoughts. I thought the author did a good a job by creatively alternating between a fictional revolutionary's and Ella's contrasting points of view in each chapter. Initially it was slightly distracting, but flowed more later. I liked the fact that the author didn't take a lot of librerties with history and kept close to facts. (If it were Philippa Gregory for instance, Ella would have definitely had herself a secret and forbidden love interest ;-)). I would have liked to have seen more of Ella's early life - as the story jumped from her marriage to the older Ella and 1905 revolution too quickly. I would have liked to have seen a more indepth "study" of her relationship with her husband, which was very vague in this book. But then again, that would have involved a lot of "creative licensing", so in a way I am glad that wasn't done.

There was really no new information in this book as far as I could tell, but this is not a biography, so that's ok. Thebook started out a little slow but picked up some time at mid-point. All in all, it was an enjoyable read as far as historical fiction goes. I finished it in about 3 days.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: halen on May 10, 2008, 09:22:10 AM
Thanks for the review! Greatly appreciate it.

Louise
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: holynewmartyr on May 12, 2008, 12:57:54 AM
Here is another book on Ella that has not been mentioned. 

For those with a religious devotion to Saint Elizabeth, there's this book:

(http://www.monasteryproducts.org/images/St.Elizabeth.jpg)

It is available at:

http://www.skete.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/product.display/product_id/1501/index.cfm

http://www.orthodoxpress.org/catalog/lives_i.htm

http://www.monasteryproducts.org/product_info.php?products_id=1844

Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Lalee on May 12, 2008, 06:36:45 AM
Wow, that seems quite interesting. Thank you! Has anyone read this book?
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: holynewmartyr on May 12, 2008, 03:07:51 PM
Thanks, Svetabel--your the best. I tried plugging it into our interlibrary loan database, though, and nothing came up. I guess it really is rare.  :(

grandduchessella,

I tried the interlibrary loan database that I have and was able to find the book.  Only one library in the USA has it!
I made a request to borrow it but it was turned down.  The library does not lend it out through interlibrary loan.

 :( I was so looking forward to seeing it.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Divia on May 17, 2008, 07:03:30 PM
Overall, I did enjoy the book. I do like Robert Alexander's writing, and from what he said on his podcast it seems that he will contiune writing about Russia. Yay.

I do agree that sometimes the book was a tad slow. But the main drawback for me was the flipping from different presepctives. To be honest I wanted a book about Ella. I wanted it to focus on her and only her. My reason behind that is becuase there are so few HF books written about this time. I wanted to read more about the court, but alas.  I really didnt need to read about Pavel. His story was dull and unintresting, and rather predictable.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Helen_Azar on May 18, 2008, 08:53:30 PM
I really didnt need to read about Pavel. His story was dull and unintresting, and rather predictable.

I have to agree with that, it was very predictable. I understand where the author was going with doing the back and forth, but the book could have done without it. Maybe he felt there wasn't enough interesting events on Ella only to keep the reader's interest? Remember, that the book is meant not just for hard core Romanov buffs, but for a wider audience.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: matushka on September 19, 2008, 09:09:33 AM
Does anyone read this book: И.К. Кучмаевa: «Когда жизнь истинствует... Культура благотворения великой княгини Елисаветы Феодоровны»:
It was published this year, the presentation was in may. More information? What about is it? New archives materials?
Perhaps Svetabel saw it?
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Svetabel on September 21, 2008, 10:05:08 AM
Does anyone read this book: È.Ê. Êó÷ìàåâa: «Êîãäà æèçíü èñòèíñòâóåò... Êóëüòóðà áëàãîòâîðåíèÿ âåëèêîé êíÿãèíè Åëèñàâåòû Ôåîäîðîâíû»:
It was published this year, the presentation was in may. More information? What about is it? New archives materials?
Perhaps Svetabel saw it?


I've seen a book by I.Koochmaeva but her previous one, on GDss Elizaveta's life. The new one I have not came across.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: matushka on October 10, 2008, 08:27:28 AM
Svetabel,
And... what do you think about this first work of Kuchmaeva? Is that very historical, more hagiographic? Are there many interesting documents from the Archives? I am planing to buy the last one, but I want to understand the style and does it worth the money?
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Svetabel on October 10, 2008, 12:51:51 PM
Svetabel,
 Is that very historical, more hagiographic?

It depends on what you'd want to read actually.Most of the recent works on GDss Elizaveta are exactly hagiographic, that one by Kuchmaeva is something between history and hagiography, not so a rhapsody as the Milller book.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 10, 2008, 12:57:48 PM
Very interesting observation.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Svetabel on October 13, 2008, 12:37:30 AM
Svetabel,
 Is that very historical, more hagiographic?

It depends on what you'd want to read actually.Most of the recent works on GDss Elizaveta are exactly hagiographic, that one by Kuchmaeva is something between history and hagiography, not so a rhapsody as the Milller book.

Very interesting observation.

I meant the book by Lubov Miller on GDss Elizaveta.  It's a hagiography with historical facts but sounds more like a pure hagiography, though the value of the book is that it had been the 1st serious research on GDss' in the early 1990s.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 13, 2008, 11:07:59 AM
Yes...but I think one reader told me. The book is like she jumped into the nun role soon after the book began. We don't get to see Ella the woman, the wife, the sister...only Ella the nun.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Teddy on October 28, 2008, 03:17:31 PM
Come and see. A new book has been born, my ms Christina Croft. Its' called: Most Beautiful Princess.


Book discription:

At the age of nineteen, Queen Victoria's granddaughter, Princess Elizabeth of Hesse, stepped into the glittering court of the Romanovs, beginning a journey that would lead her from the shimmering ballrooms of St. Petersburg to the back streets of Moscow. Through intrigues, assassination, war and revolution, to the tragedy of her own horrific murder, she remained true to her calling to bring beauty into the world. Based on the true story of 'the most beautiful princess in Europe', this novel is written in tribute to a remarkable and courageous woman.

You can buy it right now: www.lulu.com/content/4012016
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: ragnel on March 17, 2009, 05:32:36 PM
Books Already Mentioned in Above Posts:
All books in English, unless otherwise noted.

Alexander, Robert. The Romanov Bride: A Novel.  Paperback, 336 pages.  Penguin, 2009.

Almedingen, E.M.  An Unbroken Unity: A Memoir of Grand-Duchess Serge of Russia 1864-1918.  Hardback, 144 pages.  The Bodley Head Ltd., 1964.
 
John, Ilias.  Grand Duchess Elizabeth Feodorovna Photo Album - 90th Anniversary.  Hardback.  2008.

Maerova, Vera.  Elisaveta Fedorovna: A Biography. Moscow, 2004.  [Russian]

Mager, Hugo.  Elizabeth: Grand Duchess of Russia.  Paperback, 432 pages.  Da Capo Press, 1999.
 
Millar, Lubov.  Grand Duchess Elizabeth of Russia: New Martyr of the Communist Yoke.  255 pages.  Publisher: Nikodemos Orthodox Publication Society, 1990.

Millar, Lubov.  Grand Duchess Elizabeth or Russia.  Hardcover, 288 pages.  Nikodemos Orthodox Publication Society, 1991.

Tobias, Maria.  Ella's Story: The Duchess Who Became a Saint.  Paperback, 79 pages.  Conciliar Press, 2004.   [For children.]

Warwick, Christopher.  Ella: Princess, Saint and Martyr. Hardcover, 352 pages.  Wiley, annotated edition, 2007.

Sviataya prepodobnomuchenitsa Elisaveta Fiodorovna, fotoalbom.  Novospassky Monastery.  ISBN 978-5-87389-037-8.  [Russian]

The Venerable New-Martyr Grand Duchess Elizabeth Feodorovna: The Life of St. Elizabeth Illustrated with Icons and Photos, Vespers & Matins, Akathyst Hymns.  Paperback, 90 pages.  St. John the Theologian Monastery, 2004.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: ragnel on March 17, 2009, 05:40:29 PM
Books Not Listed on Above Posts:

Almedingen, E.M.  An Unbroken Unity: A Memoir of Grand-Duchess Serge of Russia 1864-1918.  Hardcover, 144 pages.  Pavlovsk Press. [Reprint of The Bodley Head Ltd., 1964.]  www.angelfire.com/pa/ImperialRussian/grb/main.html (http://www.angelfire.com/pa/ImperialRussian/grb/main.html)

Community of St. Elizabeth the New Martyr.  The Martha-Mary Convent and Rule of St. Elizabeth the New Martyr.  Paperback, 54 pages.  Holy Trinity Monastery Printshop of St. Job of Pocheaev, Jordanville, NY, 2005.  Contact:   Community of St. Elizabeth the New Martyr, 1520 State Route 167, Mohawk, NY 13407-3102, (315) 858-2208.

Croft, Christina.  Most Beautiful Princess.  Paperback Novel, 560 pages.  Hilliard and Croft, 2008.  www.amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com)

Moss, Vladimir.  The Russian Golgotha.  Hardcover, 536 pages.  Monastery Press.  [One chapter on Grand Duchess Ella.]  www.monasterypress.com (http://www.monasterypress.com)

Serfes, Nektarios.  The Royal Martyr Sisters: Empress Alexandra and Grand Duchess Elizabeth.  Paperback.  Holy Trinity Monastery, 1982.   www.serfes.org (http://www.serfes.org)

Gilbert, Ivor Paul, & Phenix, Patricia, Editors.  Romanov Relations – Volume One: A Collection of Essays on Members of the Imperial House of Ruissia.  Pavlovsk Press, 1999.  Hardcover, 178 pages.  [Includes Olsoufieff, The Countess Alexandra.  H.I.H. The Grand Duchess Elisabeth Feodorovna of Russia.  15 page article.]  www.angelfire.com/pa/ImperialRussian/grb/main.html (http://www.angelfire.com/pa/ImperialRussian/grb/main.html)

Graham, Stephen.  The Way of Martha and the Way of Mary.  Hardcover, 246 pages.  The Macmillan Co., 1915 & 1916.  [travel book for Russian with one chapter on Martha and Mary Convent.  Nice icon of St. Elizabeth & St. Barbara on the cover.]  www.amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com)

Graham, Stephen.  The Way of Martha and the Way of Mary.  Paperback, 316 pages.  BiblioLife, 2008.  [Reprint]  www.amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com)


Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 17, 2009, 05:48:07 PM
I think there is one novel about Ella and Alicky that you did not include. I think it was called "Elisabeth and Alexandra".
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: ragnel on March 18, 2009, 08:31:54 PM
Yes, I forgot this book--probably a Freudian slip.

Lambton, Antony.  Elizabeth and Alexandra.  Paperback, 420 pages.  Quartet Books, 1988.  [Novel, not well reviewed.]  www.amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com)
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Laura_ on March 19, 2009, 07:15:11 PM

John, Ilias.  Grand Duchess Elizabeth Feodorovna Photo Album - 90th Anniversary.  Hardback.  2008.

Sviataya prepodobnomuchenitsa Elisaveta Fiodorovna, fotoalbom.  Novospassky Monastery.  ISBN 978-5-87389-037-8.  [Russian]


Hmmm...I have the 2nd album... this one: http://www.angelfire.com/pa/ImperialRussian/imports/imp002.html , published  to mark the 90th anniversary of the death of the Grand Duchess Elizabeth...but I can't find the 1st album online :| do you know more about that book? the ISBN perhaps?  thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Svetabel on March 20, 2009, 03:13:38 AM

John, Ilias.  Grand Duchess Elizabeth Feodorovna Photo Album - 90th Anniversary.  Hardback.  2008.

Sviataya prepodobnomuchenitsa Elisaveta Fiodorovna, fotoalbom.  Novospassky Monastery.  ISBN 978-5-87389-037-8.  [Russian]


Hmmm...I have the 2nd album... this one: http://www.angelfire.com/pa/ImperialRussian/imports/imp002.html , published  to mark the 90th anniversary of the death of the Grand Duchess Elizabeth...but I can't find the 1st album online :| do you know more about that book? the ISBN perhaps?  thanks in advance.

That's the same book ; ).
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Laura_ on March 20, 2009, 08:36:17 AM
oh...ok,sorry! Thank you Sveta :*
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 20, 2009, 03:47:41 PM
Don;t know if there are more booksin German on Ella.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Gabriella on March 20, 2009, 04:47:20 PM
Don;t know if there are more booksin German on Ella.

I only know of one book about her in german. It's "Großfürstin  Elisabeth von Rußland" by Lubov Millar, ISBN 3-935217-15-3, published in 2004.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Sarushka on March 27, 2009, 05:04:37 PM
Folks, it's on this thread (http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=12705.0), reply #2.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: ragnel on March 29, 2009, 06:17:35 PM
Another book:

Belyakova, Zoia.  The Romanovs: The Way It Was.  Hardcover, 175 pages.  Ego Publishers, 2000.  [All Fell in Love with Ella, 69 pages, including color photos of addressed and watercolor sketches on 18 envelopes by Ella.  Shows a unexpected light side of her.]
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: ragnel on April 07, 2009, 03:49:08 PM
Here's a book, that I haven't seen.  It's from www.spasnanovom.ru/books (http://www.spasnanovom.ru/books).  If someone can translate, I would love to know what the blurb says, to know whether or not I want to figure out how to order. 

Марфо-Мариинская обитель милосердия

Печатается по изданию 1914 года. Повествует об учреждении Марфо-Мариинской обители милосердия, ее деятельности и о ее целых.
(брошюра, мягкая обложка, 32 стр., 2006 г. издан.)

(http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq43/Visionary93/marfa_mariinsray.jpg)

PS:  The name of the book photo file was "marfa_mariinsray" -- Martha and Mary something?
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: ragnel on April 07, 2009, 04:18:56 PM
From http://www.rustran.com/ (http://www.rustran.com/), I got this book blurb translated.  I think the unknown words are Martha & Mary.

"Марфо-Mariinsky monastery of mercy

It is printed under the edition of 1914. Narrates about establishment of the ?aOo«-Mariinsky monastery of mercy, its activity and about its whole. (the brochure, a soft cover, 32 p., 2006 it is published.)"

If someone buys this, I would like to know the cost, how much in text and how much in pictures.

I wonder if the English edition is the same as a book in my second list above:  Community of St. Elizabeth the New Martyr.  The Martha-Mary Convent and Rule of St. Elizabeth the New Martyr.  Paperback, 54 pages.  Holy Trinity Monastery Printshop of St. Job of Pocheaev, Jordanville, NY, 2005.  Contact:   Community of St. Elizabeth the New Martyr, 1520 State Route 167, Mohawk, NY 13407-3102, (315) 858-2208.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: ragnel on April 08, 2009, 03:42:31 PM
I looked at my copy of The Martha-Mary Convent and Rule of St. Elizabeth the New Martyr last night.  It says it's from the 1914 original, in English.

The Марфо-Mariinsky Monastery of Mercy book sounds like someone else's republication from the 1914 original, in Russian.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: ragnel on April 16, 2009, 06:09:01 PM
Does anyone know a source for The Orthodox Shrines of Russia, edited by Bishop Tikhon of Bronnitsy.  Moscow:  The Russian Orthodox Church Publishing House of the Moscow Patriarchate, 1997?  I'm hoping it's in English.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: ragnel on April 17, 2009, 06:35:52 PM
Magazine article from Orthodox Life, vol. 31, no. 5 (Sept.-Oct., 1981), pp. 3-14.   “Life of the Holy New Martyr Grand Duchess Elizabeth, by Metropolitan Anastassy, written July 1925, can be seen at www.orthodoxinfo.com/general/duchess.aspx (http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/general/duchess.aspx)

Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: benny on October 31, 2009, 02:08:34 PM
There's quite a lot about Grand Duchess Elizabeth as a nun in Lubov Millar's biography, Grand Duchess Elizabeth, New Martyr of the Communist Yoke, which has just been reprinted in an expanded edition (now 500 pages, including more than 150 photographs). She did make quite a number of pilgrimages to various monasteries and convents, often to seek counsel, as well as to holy sites in Russia. What an extraordinary spiritual heroine. No wonder so many people are drawn to know more about her. Millar's book also contains a brief history of her convent up to the present.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 01, 2009, 10:15:17 AM
Yet the main problem that people do not want to tackle was the relationship between Ella and Serge, which is more complex than clear cut in her book. Which makes people that she was almost born a nun.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Teddy on November 01, 2009, 10:32:02 AM
There's quite a lot about Grand Duchess Elizabeth as a nun in Lubov Millar's biography, Grand Duchess Elizabeth, New Martyr of the Communist Yoke, which has just been reprinted in an expanded edition (now 500 pages, including more than 150 photographs). She did make quite a number of pilgrimages to various monasteries and convents, often to seek counsel, as well as to holy sites in Russia. What an extraordinary spiritual heroine. No wonder so many people are drawn to know more about her. Millar's book also contains a brief history of her convent up to the present.

Is this book in English?
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 01, 2009, 10:33:33 AM
Yes. The author is from Australia, and of course in English. The German edition has more photos though as I saw in Darmstadt.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: matushka on November 11, 2009, 03:59:44 AM
For russian readers a new and very necessary big (846 pages) book, edited by te Orthodox University of Saint-Tikhon in Moscow: "Velikaya kniaginia Elisaveta Fedorovna i imperator Nikolai, dokumenty i materily (1884-1909). Sankt-Petersburg, Aleteya, 2009. A long and precious succession of letters and diaries' entriesof Ella, Alix, Maria Fedorovna, Sergey, KR and other Romanov, a very good light on the relationship between the couple Ella-Sergey and the other Romanov. A pity tha it goes only until 1909! Little tirage, only 1000 exemplars.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Svetabel on November 11, 2009, 04:03:04 AM
For russian readers a new and very necessary big (846 pages) book, edited by te Orthodox University of Saint-Tikhon in Moscow: "Velikaya kniaginia Elisaveta Fedorovna i imperator Nikolai, dokumenty i materily (1884-1909). Sankt-Petersburg, Aleteya, 2009. A long and precious succession of letters and diaries' entriesof Ella, Alix, Maria Fedorovna, Sergey, KR and other Romanov, a very good light on the relationship between the couple Ella-Sergey and the other Romanov. A pity tha it goes only until 1909! Little tirage, only 1000 exemplars.

Yes, the book is really great, we discuss it at the Books on the Imperial Family thread.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Teddy on November 11, 2009, 05:33:24 AM
For russian readers a new and very necessary big (846 pages) book, edited by te Orthodox University of Saint-Tikhon in Moscow: "Velikaya kniaginia Elisaveta Fedorovna i imperator Nikolai, dokumenty i materily (1884-1909). Sankt-Petersburg, Aleteya, 2009. A long and precious succession of letters and diaries' entriesof Ella, Alix, Maria Fedorovna, Sergey, KR and other Romanov, a very good light on the relationship between the couple Ella-Sergey and the other Romanov. A pity tha it goes only until 1909! Little tirage, only 1000 exemplars.

Thats'' not the only pity! Also that there are no English copies, is a pity.

Matushka, does the University also have an emailadress?
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 11, 2009, 09:32:33 PM
Always hard to get Russian books.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Teddy on November 12, 2009, 02:25:06 AM
I don't think Russian books are hard to get, but as an English reader, I can't read a word.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 12, 2009, 11:02:05 AM
Well...You can hardly get them at your local Borders or Barnes & Noble that is. But you can always enjoy the photos. Also foreign books always have a limited print run...
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Teddy on November 12, 2009, 02:53:22 PM
There's quite a lot about Grand Duchess Elizabeth as a nun in Lubov Millar's biography, Grand Duchess Elizabeth, New Martyr of the Communist Yoke, which has just been reprinted in an expanded edition (now 500 pages, including more than 150 photographs). She did make quite a number of pilgrimages to various monasteries and convents, often to seek counsel, as well as to holy sites in Russia. What an extraordinary spiritual heroine. No wonder so many people are drawn to know more about her. Millar's book also contains a brief history of her convent up to the present.

Benny, can you tell us how to order?
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Teddy on December 21, 2009, 05:45:01 AM
I get my book trough Van Hoogstraten!

But an another question: what do you think about Almedingens book?
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 22, 2009, 10:55:15 AM
Basic and beautiful and inspirational but not too many details.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: matushka on March 31, 2010, 06:17:39 AM
Teddy, I am very late to answer you! At any case: contacts of St-Tikhon University can be find at the link: http://pstgu.ru/contacts/
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: matushka on March 31, 2010, 06:30:49 AM
I bought in december the book of Kuchmaeva I told once about: Kogda jizn' istinstvuet: kultura blagotvorenia Velikoy kniaginy Elisabevety Feodorovny It is an expensive and beautiful book, a big and heavy album, well illustrated (not so much pictures of Ella, more of the places where she lived; the people she knew, archives documents...) and very informative. As Svetabel wrote one day, it is something like "hagiographic history" so history in a orthodox perspective. Some moments are quite subjective (I found, too subjective) but it worth the price as there are a lot of information from archives (newspapers...) The accent is on charity work of the Grand duke and Grand Duchess, as well as their culture life, place of culture and place of charity in their life, charity and culture as highpoint of their way of thinking and living. It is quite rare (only 1000 copies), but I crossed it in differents Moscow orthodox boostores.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: matushka on June 08, 2010, 03:09:48 PM
Information for french readers. After 2 years a good editor was found for our translation of the famous Materialy k jitiu with a lot of testimonies and first hand documents about te Grand-duchess Elisabeth, her convent, her death. This new book is called in french Elisabeth de Russie, moniale et martyreReferences and recension can be found for example at http://www.orthodoxie.com/2010/06/recension-anne-khoudokornoffkotschoubey-et-s%C5%93ur-%C3%A9lisabeth-%C3%A9d-%C3%A9lisabeth-de-russie-moniale-martyre-et-.html
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: holynewmartyr on October 28, 2010, 01:33:48 PM
On the official website of the Martha-Mary Convent is posted a news item about a new book of Saint Elizabeth and her visits to the Kazan region: http://www.mmom.ru/ru/news/events/index.php?id_7=345

It is also on the website for the Eparchy of Kazan: http://www.kazan.eparhia.ru/news/?ID=26356
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: matushka on October 29, 2010, 07:12:38 AM
Holynewmartyr, a big thank you for the link zith the book, which one can read online! I am so happy!
Eric, it was actually the second book about Ella in french, as L. Miller's one was already translated and published 2 years ago.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 29, 2010, 10:02:48 AM
Well...That was a translation, but this is new.  ;)
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Janet Ashton on November 10, 2010, 02:15:20 PM
Well...That was a translation, but this is new.  ;)

There is also a recent book by Jean-Luc Besse, called "Elisabeth Feodorovna", which is a rumination on her life and work, so the new one is definitely not the first, even excluding translations
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 10, 2010, 02:16:34 PM
Thanks for the info, it is still in print ?
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Janet Ashton on November 10, 2010, 02:18:34 PM
Thanks for the info, it is still in print ?

I think so, yes - I have it on my desk at work, but haven;t made time to read properly! The publisher is Via Romana - and actually I think the author's first name is Jean-Paul, not Jean-Luc, as I just wrote.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Svetabel on January 15, 2012, 01:22:18 PM
One more Russian book on GDss Elizaveta. This time a very interesting collection of her letters to the members of the Romanov family (including her own husband) - all collection is from the Russian State Archive.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/1002319315c.jpg)

ISBN: 978-5-89439-118-2

Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 16, 2012, 03:48:15 PM
I will buy it in a wink if I could read Russian... :(
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 17, 2012, 09:41:54 AM
Any good or rare photos inside ?
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: matushka on January 17, 2012, 11:22:21 PM
Were these letters already published or are they majoritary new for the public? A very exciting publication this seems to be...
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Svetabel on January 17, 2012, 11:57:28 PM
Were these letters already published or are they majoritary new for the public? A very exciting publication this seems to be...

Most of the collection is a first publication. Those published before were translated once again (some letters to Niccholas II and Maria Fedorovna). New are letters to her husband, to Zenaida Yusupova, to GDss Olga Nikolayevna and GD Pavel. Personally I think it's a worth-to-have edition - extended and edited in a detail.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Svetabel on January 17, 2012, 11:57:54 PM
Any good or rare photos inside ?

Nothing new.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 18, 2012, 03:30:52 PM
Sad. Since I might get it for the pics. There must be tons more photos of Ella in the Russian Archives.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: matushka on January 23, 2012, 06:10:48 AM
I bought the book and I am currently reading it day and night: quite expensive, but an absolute "must have" for anyone want on inside eye on Ella's word, relationship with her husband and people around her!! Excellent!
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 23, 2012, 11:07:16 AM
If only I could read Russian. I wonder if Ella wrote them in English, German or Russian ?
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: matushka on January 23, 2012, 12:34:51 PM
English, russian, french, german.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 23, 2012, 01:22:00 PM
In those days, Royals do speak and write a lot of languages. However Ella's cousin George V wasn't very good with either German or French. He became more British than either his father or grandmother.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Svetabel on January 24, 2012, 12:58:14 AM
I bought the book and I am currently reading it day and night: quite expensive, but an absolute "must have" for anyone want on inside eye on Ella's word, relationship with her husband and people around her!! Excellent!

Agree with you. And ,as a side note,  the publishers didn't translate her letters of 1892 year (to her husband) - those letters are issued in the Volume 4 on GD Sergei,and issued in English, in original. It's always more interesting to read in original certainly.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 24, 2012, 08:31:44 AM
Wow ! That sounds interesting. Maybe I should get it. Just for that...
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: matushka on January 25, 2012, 08:47:26 PM


Agree with you. And ,as a side note,  the publishers didn't translate her letters of 1892 year (to her husband) - those letters are issued in the Volume 4 on GD Sergei,and issued in English, in original. It's always more interesting to read in original certainly.
[/quote]
Thank you for this. I could not purchased it at the moment, what a pity. Il found interesting to read what GD Elisabeth wrote about her difficulties with "Fafka". Having read your interesting article, Svetabel, I thought it was intriguing to know what happened, what did the princess Lobanova suddenly let her charge. The book anwered my question, it's great when little "enigma" are solved!
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: matushka on January 25, 2012, 10:12:27 PM
By the way, and that will be interesting for most of the forum members, all the originals of the published letters in this books are to read at the following link: http://knigiovere.ru/foreief
It is, indeed, very interesting to read the originals. I was especially interesting in appreciate the level of GD Elisabeth's knowledge of french and russian.

PS/ As the link is open and available for all, I do not think there is any copyright problem in giving it here?
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Svetabel on January 26, 2012, 12:41:24 AM
By the way, and that will be interesting for most of the forum members, all the originals of the published letters in this books are to read at the following link: http://knigiovere.ru/foreief
It is, indeed, very interesting to read the originals. I was especially interesting in appreciate the level of GD Elisabeth's knowledge of french and russian.

PS/ As the link is open and available for all, I do not think there is any copyright problem in giving it here?

You gave the link of an official site opened for all, so no problem I believe. I think many posters here will be grateful to you for this link! ))

As for ''Fafka' question - yes, the mystery is solved for me as well, also I found answers on some questions about the Balyasniy.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: po3a on January 26, 2012, 11:18:59 AM
By the way, and that will be interesting for most of the forum members, all the originals of the published letters in this books are to read at the following link: http://knigiovere.ru/foreief
It is, indeed, very interesting to read the originals. I was especially interesting in appreciate the level of GD Elisabeth's knowledge of french and russian.

PS/ As the link is open and available for all, I do not think there is any copyright problem in giving it here?



Thank you, so much for this!  You made my whole day~
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: po3a on January 26, 2012, 06:09:20 PM
I'm about 1/3 through it ----I feel like I understand Ella more now than ever before!  I'm so grateful for this~
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: perdita on November 09, 2012, 10:03:46 PM
I'm about 1/3 through it ----I feel like I understand Ella more now than ever before!  I'm so grateful for this~

The most insightful sources are letters & diaries.

Shared insights into Ella's character & relationships are appreciated.

Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Captain Koala on November 23, 2012, 03:32:59 AM
I just finished reading "Most Beautiful Princess". I was sadly disappointed as I found the style decidedly unsophisticated. There were also issues with syntax and at least one spelling mistake. I wondered what other people's views were?
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: grandduchessella on November 23, 2012, 08:19:43 AM
I haven't read the book myself--surprisingly, perhaps, given my screen name. :)  The author was a well-respected and well-liked member here on the forum years past. Unfortunately, she left but she's still missed. She knows her source material and had written a biography on Ella published by Art Beeche. There were some issues with that situation and I don't think the book is widely available nowadays.  She is an experienced author so the issues you mention are surprising. Maybe it was an issue with the editor/publisher? Sometimes books get rushed through and those unfortunate lapses aren't caught.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 23, 2012, 09:01:45 AM
I got the art Beeche's book and it is okay but not as good as the Christopher Warwick one.

"Most Beautiful Princess" is a book of fiction as I understand (I maybe be wrong but it seems like that).

Too bad the Serge Diaries were not translated to English. :-( Art Beeche, Paul Gilbert and Ted Rosvall are all not interested in doing that. Although you can buy the Russian version from Gilbert's website. I got Olga's dairies from that.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: grandduchessella on November 23, 2012, 01:53:53 PM
Yes, it's a novel developed from Christina Croft's earlier biography of Grand Duchess Elizabeth. That was the book that Art published. The fictional work is partly published by the author herself, I believe. The publisher is listed as Hilliard and Croft.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Captain Koala on November 23, 2012, 03:16:27 PM
Don't get me wrong. It's not as bad as Tamar Anolic's "The Russian Riddle". I guess I was expecting a bit more. I appreciate your POV, though.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 23, 2012, 09:35:28 PM
I think was another fiction book on Ella called "Alexandra & Elisabeth" by someone named Lamton.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: grandduchessella on November 23, 2012, 10:34:48 PM
Elizabeth and Alexandra by Anthony Lambton. Horrible, sensationalist book. :(
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 24, 2012, 07:50:12 AM
Didn't the same Anthony Lambton wrote a book on the Battenbergs ?
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Kalafrana on November 24, 2012, 08:34:56 AM
Indeed.

Lambton was an odd character, as I'm sure I've said on another thread. He inherited the earldom of Durham in the 1960s when a Conservative MP, and renounced it under the Peerage Act 1963 in order to remain in the Commons. However, instead of becoming Mr Lambton as one would expect, he expected to be known as 'Lord Lambton' on the basis that this was the courtesy title he had before he succeeded and he had not renounced that. One may contrast the 14th Earl of Home, who on renouncing his title became plain Sir Alec Douglas-Home rather than resuming his earlier courtesy title of Lord Dunglass. Lambton  was a junior minister under Edward Heath but resigned in the midst of scandal when he was found to be consorting with call girls and addicted to hard drugs (forget whether it was heroin or cocaine or both).

Ann
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: holynewmartyr on February 27, 2013, 12:32:44 AM
There is a children's book in English that came out this month on the life of Saint Elizabeth. It came out in Romanian on November 2012.
It is titled HOLY NEW MARTYR ELIZABETH, GRAND DUCHESS OF RUSSIA by Catalin Grigore, illustrated by Adela Maria Callistru.
You can obtain it through  Saint Nectarios Press: http://www.orthodoxpress.org/catalog/new.htm (http://www.orthodoxpress.org/catalog/new.htm)
Here are links I found in Romanian which show some pictures from the book: http://edituraiona.blogspot.com/ (http://edituraiona.blogspot.com/) and http://ortodoxiesiviata.blogspot.com/2012/11/povestea-adevarata-printesei-care.html (http://ortodoxiesiviata.blogspot.com/2012/11/povestea-adevarata-printesei-care.html)
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 27, 2013, 08:35:25 AM
Thanks for the info. I hope it will be out in English soon. Want to buy it for my niece.  :)
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Captain Koala on April 21, 2013, 08:47:34 PM
I can't remember where I read it but Ella's lady in waiting was called Kitty? Kitty who? ... How many ladies in waiting did she have and what were their names?
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Eric_Lowe on April 22, 2013, 08:20:35 AM
Not sure. Books on Ella seldom go on great detail about them.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: grandduchessella on April 22, 2013, 12:15:53 PM
I can't remember where I read it but Ella's lady in waiting was called Kitty? Kitty who? ... How many ladies in waiting did she have and what were their names?

Kitty Kozlianinova

There's info on this thread:
 Ladies of Alexandra/Elizaveta Feodorovna
http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=11465.0

Also svetabel is a great source of info on this topic.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Svetabel on April 22, 2013, 02:51:51 PM
I can't remember where I read it but Ella's lady in waiting was called Kitty? Kitty who? ... How many ladies in waiting did she have and what were their names?

If you are ready to read Russian  : ) I can give you a link to the LJ pages with my research on every lady-in-waiting of GDss Elizaveta.

The list of the GDss' ladies-in-waiting (to be more correct - maids-of-honor):
Princess Lyudmila Lobanova
Ekaterina Kozlianinova
Princess Maria Troubetzkaya
Princess Alexandra Lobanova
Princess Sophia Schakhovskaya
Maria Toropchaninova

Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Captain Koala on April 22, 2013, 10:04:07 PM
thank you so much for replying so quickly ... i really appreciate it ... wow ... you guys really know your stuff. thanks heaps.

PS ... can't read Russian ... but hopefully am making my first trip to St Petersburg this year!!!
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Eric_Lowe on April 23, 2013, 12:59:28 AM
That is the reason why the ladies were not better known by the English writers of Ella. They are not interested or do not know Russian. I do wonder how many of them went with Ella to her family in England, Germany and the Holy Lands.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: AlexandraG on May 14, 2013, 11:53:51 AM
There is a children's book in English that came out this month on the life of Saint Elizabeth. It came out in Romanian on November 2012.
It is titled HOLY NEW MARTYR ELIZABETH, GRAND DUCHESS OF RUSSIA by Catalin Grigore, illustrated by Adela Maria Callistru.
You can obtain it through  Saint Nectarios Press: http://www.orthodoxpress.org/catalog/new.htm (http://www.orthodoxpress.org/catalog/new.htm)
Here are links I found in Romanian which show some pictures from the book: http://edituraiona.blogspot.com/ (http://edituraiona.blogspot.com/) and http://ortodoxiesiviata.blogspot.com/2012/11/povestea-adevarata-printesei-care.html (http://ortodoxiesiviata.blogspot.com/2012/11/povestea-adevarata-printesei-care.html)

Some pages of the English edition of HOLY NEW MARTYR ELIZABETH, GRAND DUCHESS OF RUSSIA can be viewed here: http://ionapublishinghouse.blogspot.ro/, the blog of the publishing house.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Eric_Lowe on May 14, 2013, 04:14:05 PM
Thanks. Ella's story is far from a fairy tale though...
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Captain Koala on June 28, 2013, 11:50:44 PM
Can someone please help me: In Hugo Mager's book on Ella, on page 302 he says that Ella and Alix had their final showdown about Rasputin in Alix's Mauve Boudoir. Then after they had squabbled, Ella drove straight to see Felix Y at the Alexander Palace. I thought The Mauve Boudoir was in the Alexander Place and besides what would Felix have been doing there. I've read elsewhere that Alix and her 2 eldest daughters escorted Ella to the train station.

Can someone tell me what happened; who exactly did Ella go and see immediately afterwards ... and where?

Thanks, tim
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: CountessKate on June 29, 2013, 07:18:59 AM
Can someone please help me: In Hugo Mager's book on Ella, on page 302 he says that Ella and Alix had their final showdown about Rasputin in Alix's Mauve Boudoir. Then after they had squabbled, Ella drove straight to see Felix Y at the Alexander Palace. I thought The Mauve Boudoir was in the Alexander Place and besides what would Felix have been doing there. I've read elsewhere that Alix and her 2 eldest daughters escorted Ella to the train station.

Can someone tell me what happened; who exactly did Ella go and see immediately afterwards ... and where?

Thanks, tim

The original story was in Felix Yusupov's 'Lost splendour' where he wrote that, following an unsuccessful interview between Yusopov's mother and the Empress ("The Empress, who had listened in silence [to the Princess's representations concerning the dangers of her patronage of Rasputin], rose and dismissed her with the words: 'I hope I never see you again.'"): "Later, the Grand Duchess Elisabeth, who appeared very rarely at Tsarskoie-Selo, made a last attempt to convince her sister.  She promised to come and see us on leaving the Alexander Palace.  We all waited eagerly for her arrival, anxious to hear the result of the interview.  She entered the room trembling and in tears: 'She drove me away like a dog!' she cried.  'Poor Nicky, poor Russia!'"

Pierre Gilliard wrote that the Grand Duchess went to see her sister and "As soon as she arrived at Tsarskoe Selo she spoke to the Tsarina, trying with all the love she bore her to convince her of her blindness....The Tsarina's confidence [in Rasputin] was not to be shaken......As the Grand Duchess persisted, the Tsarina broke off the conversation.  The interview was then objectless.  A few hours later the Grand Duchess left for Moscow, death in her heart.  The Tsarina and her daughters accompanied her to the station....The tender affection which had associated them [Alix and Ella] was still intact, but they realised that there was a broken something lying between them."

Maria Pavlovna the younger wrote: "She told me the details of her last trip to Tsarskoe Selo.......She had from her sister the Empress a frigid welcome, and her representation of the sombre, rebellious mood of Moscow, and of the need of immediate change, led to a painful scene.  The next morning she received from the Empress a short note asking her to leave...."

Ella's own deposition noted that "In December 1916 I had a final, decisive conversation with the Tsar and Tsarina [my italics] on the subject of Rasputin.....They replied that....all the rumours about him were slanders, and asked me not to touch on the matter any further." 

So some rather differing views, but no Mauve Boudoir and no Yusupovs in the Alexander Palace.  Greg King places them in the Moika Palace, which would be more logical.  But note the time differential in Maria Pavlovna's account.

Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 29, 2013, 01:52:56 PM
I think Ella did make a report to those who wanted to see if she could open the Empress's eyes to Rasputin, but they were disappointed.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Captain Koala on June 29, 2013, 08:18:41 PM
Thank you! I guess I shouldn't get bogged down in detail. I guess the main point is that the meeting was unsuccessful.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 30, 2013, 10:43:53 AM
I am a bit baffled. Ella had great influence with Alicky early in the marriage and got on excellently with Minny, but did not play a role in smoothing her sister's path to Russian society (She was the darling of that). I still wonder why that did not happen...no books shed any light on that.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: grandduchessella on June 30, 2013, 06:03:30 PM
That's getting off topic and belongs in another thread.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 01, 2013, 10:18:07 AM
Not really. I am saying why no book on the subject of Ella venture into that avenue, and which book on Ella describe this the mast ?
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: grandduchessella on July 01, 2013, 10:28:31 AM
It is off topic to discuss a particular aspect of Ella's life--this thread is really to discuss the books themselves.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Captain Koala on August 27, 2013, 01:17:00 AM
Can anyone tell me the best book to read to understand Ella and Serge's engagement ... the books i've read seem to gloss over this period. One author (I can't remember who) (and I'm paraphrasing) said that Ella finally accepted Serge on such and such a date etc. etc. Does this mean he proposed and she said no initially?
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Svetabel on August 27, 2013, 05:11:44 AM
Can anyone tell me the best book to read to understand Ella and Serge's engagement ... the books i've read seem to gloss over this period. One author (I can't remember who) (and I'm paraphrasing) said that Ella finally accepted Serge on such and such a date etc. etc. Does this mean he proposed and she said no initially?

The best book is in fact a bio on GD Sergei, I mean not a bio exactly but a serie of books on him with his diaries ,letters, other correspondence (4 Volumes until now), in Russian.

The indecisive person in their engagement was not Elisabeth but Sergei who could not make up his mind for a long time. She never said No itself, there were some doubts from Queen Victoria and other relatives. Also Sergei itself had a lot of doubts and stretched the time.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: grandduchessella on August 27, 2013, 01:39:52 PM
Every time you mention those books, Svetabel, I think "I have GOT to learn to read Russian!". LOL They sound really interesting.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Svetabel on August 27, 2013, 04:32:29 PM
Every time you mention those books, Svetabel, I think "I have GOT to learn to read Russian!". LOL They sound really interesting.


They are just unique! Waiting for Volume 5... : )
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 28, 2013, 11:29:38 PM
Volume 5 of Serge diaries ?
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Laura Mabee on August 29, 2013, 10:49:53 AM
OH really? I had enough of a hard time tracking down the 4 Volumes as it is. Currently my Vol. 3 & 4 are being watched over by a kind AP soul, so I haven't had a chance to look at Vol. 4 yet. Where does it leave off? (date wise?)
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 29, 2013, 12:58:54 PM
I wonder if it very comprehensive or just writing on daily activities like those of Nicholas II like "today. I went for a walk and a cigarette. Talk with Mama..."
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: matushka on August 30, 2013, 12:06:34 PM
Eric, the diary is more emotionnal than Nicolas's one. But first of all the letters of grand-duke Serguey to his friends and relatives (and espacially to his brother Paul) are extremely informative, revealing a sensitive, proud and quite bitter man. No one should give any jugement on the grand-duke as a human being (I am not about his policy) without reading these materials.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 02, 2013, 01:58:10 PM
It would be much easier if they are more readily available to be purchased and translated from Russian. 
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Joanna on September 04, 2013, 01:49:59 PM
Fascinating details on the letters/diaries of GD Sergei in two interviews with the researcher/editor Irina Plotnikova:

http://novospasskiymon.ru/zhurnal/431-chitaya-dnevniki

Reading the diaries:

... The archive has preserved almost all of his many letters and diaries . All this not only be collected , but also to work with the text correctly , with no errors , translated into modern Russian language with the old spelling (handwriting Sergei Alexandrovich was quite difficult) , it was necessary to translate the fragments in French, in English, on German. In order for it to be interesting and understandable to read, I had to comment, to plunge into the midst of those events. Otherwise it becomes a private correspondence, closed in meaning. It was necessary to explain all the names of the situation , the situation in Russia at the time.

Handwriting Sergei Alexandrovich and in Russian is hard to read . Now I do it quite fluently . But sometimes stumbling . But first, helped intuition : it is not possible to spell check - in general, the word is easier to read in full. The history of the French translation . I just copied the letters in calligraphy . Copier not immediately have to do.

In the first years allowed to read the scripts, I was holding these same diaries , commemorative books. I know how they look, how they smell , how they design . This is a general smell of the time : he was holding in his hands - and I can not read ! It is material to this touch and at the same time to feel something spiritual. Now the whole fund Sergei Alexandrovich transferred to film. And researchers are fleeing to the top of the opening of the archive, to occupy the unit . A queue . Sometimes you have to sit and wait for the machine when it is released . Through the film is much more difficult to read and feel , the image is not in focus. But I'm glad that in the early years, I have managed to work with scripts ...

http://ganinayama.ru/istoricheskij-material/razdel-1/intervyu-s-plotnikovoj-iv.html

- What language communicated Emperor and the Grand Duke ?

- In Russian . The French in the letters they passed , if discussed are not intended for someone else's eyes attitudes, emotions . But it's some rare inclusions , nothing more.

- It is said , and the handwriting of the person can be judged . As far as calligraphy , elegant, clear handwriting of the Grand Duke ?

- His calligraphy not elegant. It is open to people close to the handwriting human , emotional, do not hide anything . He writes fast enough, at the same time , respecting the person to whom the letter is drawn , and that is to make out the letter. When his brother Paul sent him a letter illegible , Sergey chides him : " I stopped you disassemble , bear respect! ". But we still difficult to read the letters : they are old spelling with yatyami , erami , special spellings of individual letters ... Although gradually get used to it . He is a very nice signed , " Sergei ." And his flying "C" in the signature - a work of art. I do not understand how the letters were read Elizabeth Feodorovna , it is mainly written in English . That's her handwriting , in my view , it is hard to disassemble .

Irina also says:

… Published 4 volumes of 3,000 copies , for the publication of the fifth - is still very much work…

Her work on the study of archival documents that are included in the publication, it takes more than ten years. Books issued in the light of the publishing house "Novospasskiy monastery." Four volumes are chronologically us life Grand Duke. The first volume describes the period 1857-1877, the second -1877-1880, the third - 1880-1884, the fourth - 1857-1905

Since volume 4 was up to 1905, I am curious what volume 5 will contain.

Joanna

Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 04, 2013, 04:13:53 PM
Thanks for the information.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Laura Mabee on September 04, 2013, 05:20:57 PM
Thank you so much for that fantastic information Joanna! Wonderful!

Now the whole fund Sergei Alexandrovich transferred to film. And researchers are fleeing to the top of the opening of the archive, to occupy the unit . A queue . Sometimes you have to sit and wait for the machine when it is released . Through the film is much more difficult to read and feel , the image is not in focus. But I'm glad that in the early years, I have managed to work with scripts ...
That is so interesting. So it seems these days all the fonds have been 'scanned' (in poor quality?) for researchers and they can no longer work with the originals. Much better for the archives life span, but it kind of takes some of the special spark out of the research. If they are digitizing everything though.... one can hope the fonds will soon open online? I've seen more items from GARF online in recent years than I have in the last 10 (mainly photos)... but the release of some of the correspondence would be brilliant.

… Published 4 volumes of 3,000 copies , for the publication of the fifth - is still very much work…

Her work on the study of archival documents that are included in the publication, it takes more than ten years. Books issued in the light of the publishing house "Novospasskiy monastery." Four volumes are chronologically us life Grand Duke. The first volume describes the period 1857-1877, the second -1877-1880, the third - 1880-1884, the fourth - 1857-1905

Since volume 4 was up to 1905, I am curious what volume 5 will contain.

Joanna

Thank you for this info Joanna! It's much appreciated. There have been some very interesting publications that have come out of Russia as of late. It will be interesting to see if, indeed, a fifth volume comes along.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 04, 2013, 07:46:06 PM
I wonder if letters of Serge or Ella to Grand Duke Constantine or Miechen would be published ? Miechen's letters to her daughter or her diary would be interesting too.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: matushka on September 05, 2013, 12:03:58 PM
Volume IV covers the years 1884-1894.
Many letters of GD Serge to Grand-Duke Constantine are in the books.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Joanna on September 05, 2013, 05:33:27 PM
Matushka thank you for clarifying volume 4. As 1894 to 1905 were critical years with GD Sergei in Moscow, Irina P. will probably require two more volumes.

Laura, I am curious of the “film”.  Irina said that at first she handled the original diaries, then the fond was converted c2002-03.  It is probably microfilm - difficult to work even with English text never mind handwritten diaries/letters. I doubt the Monastery has the money to redigitalize the collection so I am very grateful to researchers like Irina. 

Russia is in the forefront with digitalization of their archives - GARF, RSHA, Russian State Library to name a few - access intranet - and researchers are publishing their work. I am constantly in awe that every month a new book appears that relates to my narrow field of historical research. Recently the memoirs of Sophie Buxhoeveden were published in Russian and although most of us have read the English versions, the translators/editor went beyond including never before seen photos, historical data from the archives and interviews with living acquaintances.

Joanna
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 06, 2013, 02:51:36 PM
Going back to Ella. Any new book on her ?
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: holynewmartyr on October 25, 2015, 07:39:11 PM
I am a year behind in learning about this but Christopher Warwick's Ella: Princess, Saint and Martyr has been published in paperback under a revised title, The Life and Death of Ella Grand Duchess of Russia: A Romanov Tragedy.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Превед on October 25, 2015, 07:54:20 PM
The Life and Death of Ella Grand Duchess of Russia: A Romanov Tragedy.
Why didn't they just title it: "Yet Another Romanov Tragedy", since it seems imperative to get the words "Romanov" or "tragedy", or hey, even better: both! -  into every book title in the field.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Bambi on November 28, 2017, 09:27:55 PM
Would anyone be able to tell me about how Warwick and Mager's biographies of Ella compare with and differ from one another?

I have Warwick's book and it is fairly good. There is something "unique" about his sentence structures though and sometimes it feels as though everything is "all over the place", so to speak. Having said that, though, I wouldn't know how it would compare to other books as it is the only biography of Ella I have ever read, with the exception of Ella's Story: The Duchess Who Became a Saint by Maria Alexandra Tobias, which is more of a children's book, anyway. It also doesn't help that there are not many books available on Ella, either.

While I do find Warwick's biography to be good, I must say that I sympathise with Svetabel and concur with her much earlier comments on this thread that it is very difficult to see Ella. I personally feel as though I am looking at Ella but not seeing her. Her somewhat enigmatic character and lack of correspondence, diary entries, etc., would be contributing factors. It would be wonderful to be able to go deep into her soul as much as possible, though I don't know if Mager is any more capable of achieving this than Warwick.

Does Mager's book offer more excerpts from Ella's existing personal correspondence? How would his biography compare with and differ from Warwick's in general?
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Grandoffsky on February 27, 2018, 05:31:09 AM
Hello!

I was wondering if anyone has had a chance to have a look at this book «ЛЕТОПИСЬ ЖИЗНИ Великого князя Сергия Александровича и Великой княгини Елисаветы Феодоровны Романовых»
http://www.ippo.ru/news/article/vyshla-v-svet-kniga-chlena-ippo-o-pervyh-predsedat-403839 (http://www.ippo.ru/news/article/vyshla-v-svet-kniga-chlena-ippo-o-pervyh-predsedat-403839)

From the description it's quite impossible to understand whether it is a book only about Grand Duchess's and Grand Duke's work for the Imperial Orthodox Palestine Society (which I would also find very interesting) or is it about the Grand Ducal couple in general?

I also don't seem to be able to find where the book could be purchased (and if it is possible to order it from abroad).

I would be very thankful for any information.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Svetabel on February 27, 2018, 01:16:04 PM
Hello!

I was wondering if anyone has had a chance to have a look at this book «ЛЕТОПИСЬ ЖИЗНИ Великого князя Сергия Александровича и Великой княгини Елисаветы Феодоровны Романовых»
http://www.ippo.ru/news/article/vyshla-v-svet-kniga-chlena-ippo-o-pervyh-predsedat-403839 (http://www.ippo.ru/news/article/vyshla-v-svet-kniga-chlena-ippo-o-pervyh-predsedat-403839)

From the description it's quite impossible to understand whether it is a book only about Grand Duchess's and Grand Duke's work for the Imperial Orthodox Palestine Society (which I would also find very interesting) or is it about the Grand Ducal couple in general?

I also don't seem to be able to find where the book could be purchased (and if it is possible to order it from abroad).

I would be very thankful for any information.

I think we should wait a little and the book will be at some bookstores. I believe it can be found now at the bookshop of Novospasyskiy Monastery.
Only I have some doubts about really any new facts or something like that in the book...
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: Grandoffsky on February 27, 2018, 04:41:17 PM
I think we should wait a little and the book will be at some bookstores. I believe it can be found now at the bookshop of Novospasyskiy Monastery.
Only I have some doubts about really any new facts or something like that in the book...

Oh, OK, thank you for this information. I guess we'll just really have to wait and see.

I also believe I've come across a few quotes from the book in different vkontakte groups, mainly from correspondence of other representatives of the Society that deal with the Grand Ducal couple and their work for the Society.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: holynewmartyr on October 30, 2020, 10:12:49 PM
I learned just yesterday of this book:  Крестный путь преподобномученицы Великой княгини Елисаветы Феодоровны на Алапаевскую Голгофу / The Way of the Cross of the Holy Martyr Grand Duchess Elisabeth Feodorovna to the Alapaevsk Golgotha

Presentation in Russian of the book by the author, Ludmila Kulikova: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrhMtVSCvUg

Article in English about the book:  https://tsarnicholas.org/2020/08/16/there-are-still-many-conjectures-surrounding-the-death-of-grand-duchess-elizabeth-feodorovna/

It looks and sounds very interesting.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: amartin71718 on November 01, 2020, 11:05:19 AM
That is fascinating! I'm going to have to find a way to order that. And that detail about the fingernails was...chilling, to say the least.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: JamesAPrattIII on November 02, 2020, 05:06:20 PM
Very interesting I hope to read it one day if it comes out in English.
Title: Re: Books on Grand Duchess Elizabeth
Post by: JamesAPrattIII on November 23, 2020, 05:02:16 PM
I have seen pictures of the dead bodies before . I believe they were in the book "The Sokolov Investigation" which identifies who is who.