Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => Scandanavian Royal Families => Topic started by: Frederika on April 22, 2005, 04:13:18 AM

Title: Princess Sybilla
Post by: Frederika on April 22, 2005, 04:13:18 AM
This princess of sweden born princess of sax corburg gother the mother of king Karl XVI Gustaf is a mistary to me i cant find anything about her can any one help?
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: Marc on April 22, 2005, 04:39:46 AM
I would also like to know much more about her!I know that during the WW II she was the bond between the royals on wrong sides!Is there any portrait of her?
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: Marc on April 22, 2005, 07:42:48 AM
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y140/auersperg23/Sybilla.jpg)
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: Marc on April 22, 2005, 07:44:30 AM
Picture of Crown Princess Sybilla of Sweden wearing Court dress...I wonder is there any portrait of her?I would like to see it so much!
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: Frederika on April 22, 2005, 12:14:43 PM
some info i found to day she was born in 1908 an died of cancer in 1972 she was apprently unpopular but i dont no for what reason
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: TJ Jones on April 23, 2005, 12:25:15 PM
She was Crown Princess? Why didn't she ever become Queen?
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: Grand Duke on April 23, 2005, 12:44:08 PM
Quote
She was Crown Princess? Why didn't she ever become Queen?


Because her husband, the Crown Prince Gustav Adolf of Sweden, died before his father the King Gustav VI.

When Gustav VI died, his grandson (Gustav Adolf and Sybilla's son) became King Charles XVI of Sweden.

(http://genealogia.sapo.pt/images/pessoas/pes_6721.jpg)(http://genealogia.sapo.pt/images/pessoas/pes_6700.jpg) Sybilla and Gustav Adolf

Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: Grand Duke on April 23, 2005, 12:49:54 PM
Sybilla's parents:

Charles Edward I, duke of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha (1884-1954)
Vitória Adelaide, princess of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg (1885-1970)

(http://genealogia.sapo.pt/images/pessoas/pes_13716.jpg) (http://genealogia.sapo.pt/images/pessoas/pes_6393.jpg)
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: kmerov on April 23, 2005, 12:54:25 PM
Not to be picky, but Sibylla was never Crown Princess. Her husband died in a plain crash in 1947 while his grandfather Gustav V was king.
Sibylla and her husband were very popular at first, but later she was blamed for being German, and giving birth to four daughters.
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: TJ Jones on April 23, 2005, 01:59:36 PM
Did all her daughters marry equally? I thought that she would become a dowager, considering her husband died and shes a foreign princess.
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: kmerov on April 23, 2005, 02:48:44 PM
No, only one daugther made an equal marriage. Princess Birgitta married Johan Georg, Prince of Hohenzollern- Sigmaringen.
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: Mia on April 23, 2005, 02:59:36 PM
I'm curious - is Princess Sibylla Sybilla in English?

Anyway, I haven't either got very much information about her. Is there a biography or something?

My impression of her is based solely on the photos in which she looks very cold and distant. The death of her husband must have been a shock to her, leaving her alone with five children. It sounds a bit bad that Sibylla's son King Carl XVI Gustaf has told in an interview that his nanny, Ingrid ”Nenne” Björnberg, was like a mother to him. While Sibylla was always away on duty, perhaps. This sounds like she would have had an active life after becoming widow.
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: Frederika on April 23, 2005, 03:13:26 PM
i did not know her unpopularity was because she had daughters sweden was never occupied by germany so i dont think they would realy care her unpopularity i heard was because she never learnt to speak swedish.
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: kmerov on April 23, 2005, 03:36:56 PM
Well,I dont think the daughters were the biggest problem, but it didnt help the situation. And yes,one of the problems was that she never learnt to master the swedish language.
Eventhough Sweden wasnt invaded by Germany, she still had to deal with the anti-german feelings of the days. Many of her relatives were nazis and she was accused of being one aswell.
She also had a hard time making contact with people outside the family. Her husbands death didnt make it easier for her.  
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: Frederika on April 23, 2005, 03:56:35 PM
she died quite young there is not much info on her even on swedish websites maybe they want to play down her memory?.

after queen louisa's death in 1965 did she not become first lady of of sweden?
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: TJ Jones on April 23, 2005, 09:00:37 PM
Quote
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y140/auersperg23/Sybilla.jpg)


What is the event in this picture? I read on another website that Sweden no longer has coronations.
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: lexi4 on April 23, 2005, 11:21:06 PM
I would also like to know more about her. Does anyone know which of her relatives were Nazis? I have been able to find very little information on her.
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: Frederika on April 24, 2005, 03:30:20 AM
Sybilla on her honeymoon 1932
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v732/raos/SF372141.jpg)

Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: crazy_wing on April 24, 2005, 04:06:59 AM
Quote
I would also like to know more about her. Does anyone know which of her relatives were Nazis? I have been able to find very little information on her.


Her father was one.  
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: lexi4 on April 24, 2005, 02:05:47 PM
Quote

Her father was one.  

Was she sympathetic to the Nazis?
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: Polaris on April 29, 2005, 09:09:05 AM
Quote

What is the event in this picture? I read on another website that Sweden no longer has coronations.
This picture is from the Grand Opening of Parliament in January 1970, in the grand old way it used to be.

Here you can see Princess Sibylla as the nations first lady, assisted by two pages who handle her train. At these kind of grand occasions, the first lady of the country (at this time it was Sibylla) was always assisted by two pages, the rest of the royal ladies by one.

It's a pity we only have the "normal" Opening of Parliament left... :(
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: TJ Jones on April 29, 2005, 09:58:26 AM
So, you live in Sweden? Do you know anything about Princess Sybilla not posted here? I have looked and I cant find anything.
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: Polaris on April 29, 2005, 10:55:12 AM
Quote
So, you live in Sweden? Do you know anything about Princess Sybilla not posted here? I have looked and I cant find anything.

When we talk of Princess Sibylla and our current King's childhood, we really have to put it into perspective. These were the days of the old Court - a very strict and old fashioned Royal Family and Court, surrounded by rules and regulations - but of course there was also more pomp and glitter in those days.

The Swedes feeling for Sibylla pended between being cold and warm. During the war years it was hard for all Germans in Sweden, and especially for Sibylla because she had family members (Saxe-Coburg-Gothas) who were involved with the nazis.

She was welcomed when she arrived in Sweden after her marriage, but the life that awaited her was a very hard and regulated one. The pressure for her to deliver a boy, a coming King, was enormous. So when she gave birth to four girls in a row, it wasn't easy for her.

She was never a loved royal in the way others are, but as I said - off and on warm and cold feelings for her came from the people.

When it comes to the life of Princess Sibylla, I really don't know that much, her life is quite in the dark these days. I do know that she was a devoted Scout throughout her life, something which the current King has "inherited".
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: Polaris on April 29, 2005, 11:10:39 AM
To give yall some insight to the climate of those days, I will post here a translation of an article from a Swedish newspaper in March that I did for http://www.theroyalforums.com at the time it was published.


The King’s dark childhood
(Translated article from Expressen, march 2005)

King Carl Gustaf, 58, has always missed his father. The truth is that he also missed his mother. During his, sometimes sad, childhood, he lived isolated and was not even allowed to live in the same apartment as his mother, Princess Sibylla.

After the flood wave catastrophe, King Carl Gustaf for the first time bared to tell about his family secret: the regret for a father.
- Many children have lost one or both their parents. I think I know what that means. I have myself been a child like that, he said.

With that, he lifted the lid off a subject that had been taboo during his upbringing. Expressen have mapped out how it was to grow up as a Crown Prince without a father – and with a mother who was seldom at hand.

It was never spoken about that there was no father in the family; that Carl Gustaf, when he was only nine moths old, lost his father; Crown Prince Gustaf Adolf, 41, in a plane accident. It was a Tuesday. Gustaf Adolf was returning from a hunting trip to Holland and the Princesses where leaving fro Bromma airport to welcome him.

The next morning, the children were allowed to enter the bedroom where Princess Sibylla sat in the bed and cried. She said:
- Your father is dead.

Then it was not talked about any further. Carl Gustaf didn’t get to know the truth until he turned seven years old.
- It was out mother’s way of handling the situation, to cope with living her life. We were not to talk about it. That’s just how it was.
- It was of course not good for us children. It would’ve been much better to be allowed to talk about father’s death, Princess Birgitta has said in an interview.

Princess Christina has also witnessed of how it was:
- No one ever told me that father was dead. It took me about five six years to understand that I had no father.
- I feel no grudge or bitterness towards mother, because I think I understand her. She was devastated herself, and it was a terrible shock for her.

- She was so young when she came here, to a foreign country and she stuck in a very intense family life.
- She gave birth to children constantly, her deliveries were difficult and she was not feeling well during the pregnancies.

Princess Sibylla felt the pressure to give birth to a son – and secure the male succession. Carl Gustaf was therefore a longed-for boy. Gustaf Adolf and Sibylla had four girls – Princesses Margaretha, 11, Birgitta, 9, Désirée, 7, and Christina, 2 – and finally had a son that could secure the succession.

His father called him ”the Duke”. The fist thing Gustaf Adolf used to say when he returned home was:
- How is the little Duke?

The King’s mother, Princess Sibylla, was devastated after Gustaf Adolf’s sudden death. She realised that she on her own would not cope to raise five children. Instead it became the staff’s business to take care of the Princesses and Prince. Little Prince Carl Gustaf’s rescue was the nanny Ingrid “Nenne” Björnberg, who had to provide almost all of the love, closeness and affection. During the night after Gustaf Adolf’s death, she decided that the Princely children would become the task of her lifetime.

Nenne Björnberg lived with the five children in a special apartment at Haga Palace. In another apartment lived mother, and every morning the children were allowed to come down and say “good morning” – and then they had to eat breakfast in another apartment.

It was Nenne that put the little Prince to bed. It was Nenne that sat beside his bed and comforted when he was sick. It was her arms that he sought for when he looked for closeness and when he was sad.

Once per year, Nenne Björnberg was granted a holiday and went away. Little Carl Gustaf dreaded her leaving him. Princess Birgitta describes it in her memoirs “My own way”:
“Nenne had barely left the house before Carl Gustaf started crying. He was impossible to comfort and he cling to me like an ape. My attempts to calm him made no difference, he just went on crying whatever I did. At last I started to get tired in my arms and tried to put him down on the ground again, but he didn’t want to hear about it. He cling my arm and bit me by reflex in the arm!”

The little Prince and Birgitta – maybe also the other siblings – saw Nenne as a deputy mother; their real mother was seldom at hand when they needed her.

Princess Birgitta writes:
“Our mother was sometimes enormously jealous at her, because it was to Nenne that we turned with our small and big troubles. This had a natural explanation though. Our mother was forced to devote a lot of time to the Court’s duties and was often away from home on different assignments.”

When Carl Gustaf was sent to the boarding school in Sigtuna, that he was not allowed to leave at the holidays, he found his place very well there. But Birgitta writes:
“The one he missed the least was our mother – not by lack of love, but because the official duties took so much of her time.”

Nenne was the good mother in the little Prince’s life. Nenne also became like a grandmother to the royal children Victoria, Carl Philip and Madeleine. Nenne passed away in 1994.

But Carl Gustaf was also to be brought up by men, among others his favourite uncle, Prince Bertil. The air force Colonel Ulf Björkman, who was Gustaf VI Adolf’s Aide-de-Camp, and who sometimes stepped as it for “the little King”, tells:
- I stepped in for him when he lived at the bachelor apartment at the Palace. We used to sit in the kitchen and cooked and talked. But we never talked about the fact that his father was dead.

Ulf Björkman also tells about a man who came to mean a lot for Carl Gustaf:
- He had a spare father in the General Malcolm Murray, who was a very good friend to Princess Sibylla.
- He was a part of the “council” that were to take care of the Crown Prince’s upbringing. Malcolm was a very nice person – happy and liked to joke.

Princess Birgitta says:
- My brother had no memories of his own from our father, but always when we meet – we talk about him.
- He loves to hear us sisters’ talk about father.
- It’s great that my brother is not talking about his loss. It has been great through out his life.

Only once before has King Carl Gustaf mentioned the regret for his father:
- Many of my friends’ fathers became like some sort of spare fathers for me. And then it happened that one felt one would have wanted a father.

The King’s missing of a father and a present mother has characterized his life, and above all how we values his own children.
- When one has three healthy, harmonious children – yes, one is happy. It’s great to be with the children.
- It’s the whole point.
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: TampaBay on April 29, 2005, 02:01:38 PM
Polaris,

Thank you for the wonderful article!!!

Do you have any information on how Sybilla met her Sweedish Prince?

Thanks again!!!

TampaBay
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: La_Mashka on May 20, 2005, 12:48:26 PM
Wow!!

Thats an awesome insight on a kings life...  It sounds like a very sad childhood...


BTW, in the picture where Princess Sybilla is going to the Parliament, doesnt she resemble Queen Elizabeth II??  ???
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: CatherineNY on May 30, 2005, 11:45:51 AM
Sybilla was the granddaughter of Leopold, Duke of Albany, Queen Victoria's hemophiliac son, and the daughter of Charles Edward, Duke of Saxe-Coburg Gotha (who, as was mentioned above, became a Nazi, and was imprisoned for a while at the end of WWII). There is information on Sybilla's father and family, and on her, in Theo Aronson's "Princess Alice, Countess of Athlone". Princess Alice was Sybilla's aunt. You can also find information on the family in Marlene Eilers Koenig's "Queen Victoria and Her Descendants".
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: grandduchessella on May 30, 2005, 01:33:54 PM
John van der Kiste in his book 'Northern Crowns' writes that because Sybilla's father (his own cousin) was such a devout Nazi and because GV distrusted Hitler, he refused to allow the POW to attend the wedding in Coburg. Probably a good thing since 'on the evening of the wedding, four thousand Nazis marched in a torchlight procession through the town. On the day itself the wedding route was lined by saluting Brownshirts, and a message from Hitler was read out at the reception. King Gustav [V] had been anxious to attend his grandson's wedding, and was with difficulty dissuaded from doing so, on the grounds that the ceremony would almost certainly be used to stage Nazi demonstrations.'

He goes onto say that CE's influence did indeeed prove 'potentially harmful' towards his SIL. 'Shy by nature, autocratic and irascible' GA was 'very unlike' his father (and his mother!). A report on the Swedish royal family in 1932 (the year he married) commented that he was 'headstrong and often led by his obstinancy into imprudences which expose him to criticism. He does not share in the same measure the popularity...enjoyed by the other members of the family.'The Social democrats (the largest party) viewed him as 'violently (albeit discrettly) right-wing' and the civic dignitaries in Stockholm refused to take part in the wedding festivities held in Nov 1932 when the newlyweds returned on the grounds that shortly before GA had been present at a Stahlhelm (a Germany nationalistic org) meeting. As Hitler gained influence Gustav V began to worry about his grandson's views but he was 'unable to resist the charm of his granddaughter-in-law, discreet as she was, and they were fast becoming devoted to each other' much to the consternation of the government who noted that 'it was evident that he was taking her unduly into his confidence, and ministers feared that by doing so he was placing the monarchy in danger'.
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: grandduchessella on May 30, 2005, 01:42:48 PM
GA died in Jan 1947 when he was returning from a hunting trip in the Netherlands with Prince Bernhard (consort of Queen Juliana). He caught a Dutch plane which made daily commutes from Amsterdam to Stockholm. Immediately upon take-off from a layover in Denmark, the plane crashed killing all 22 aboard (including the opera singer/actress Grace Moore) were killed instantly. 'The Prince's trouble years were long since forgotten. A devoted husband and father' his son was just 9 mos old. He had become President of the Swedish Boy Scouts and begun to seriously involve himself in community & welfare programs. A keen sportsman, he was a great fencer and horsemen and was chairman of the Swedish Olympic Committee. Victor Mallet even noted that 'many people think that he would make a better King than his father, because he is a stronger character.' His father wrote that he grieved for his 'poor daughter-in-law and for the 5 children. [This apparently brought back memories of his being widowed in 1920 with 5 children, ironically 4 boys and 1 girl] She is wonderful. I am full of admiration. May she be granted strength to continue, I fear as time goes on it may be more difficult even than at the present moment. She never lost her moral balance, though it was a devastating blow. I can only repeat: she is an example to all of us.' CPss Louise wrote that he was much taken up with his DIL and 'they are such good friends' and that Sybilla was a 'help to him through the quite wonderful way she bears her loss & sorrow, a spiritual courage & calmness & balance which is truly quite marvellous.'
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: grandduchessella on May 30, 2005, 01:44:11 PM
King Gustav VI Adolf declined great celebrations for his 90th birthday in 1972 since Sybilla was seriously ill. In Sept she was admitted to the hospital where a cancer diagnosis was made. She died that Nov at age 64.
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: grandduchessella on May 30, 2005, 02:12:00 PM
Quote
The pressure for her to deliver a boy, a coming King, was enormous. So when she gave birth to four girls in a row, it wasn't easy for her.


Until the rules were changed to allow for Princess Victoria to become Queen in her own right, the need for a male heir was dominant. The pressure can be seen based on the following situation when Sybilla was married:

GUSTAF V (1858- 1950)

GUSTAF VI ADOLF (1882-1973
Gustaf Adolf Oscar Fredrik Arthur Edmund, Duke of Westerbotten 1906- 1947); m. 1932 Sibylle of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha (1908-1972)
     Margaretha b.1934
     Birgitta b.1937
     Désirée b.1938
     Christina b.1943
     CARL XVI GUSTAF b.1946 (after 12 yrs  marriage)

Sigvard, Duke of Uppland, renounced his titles and was created Count of Wisborg 1951 (1907- 2002); m.(1) 1934 (div 1943) Erica Patzek (2) 1943 (div 1961) Sonia de Robbert (3)  1961 Marianne Lindberg [So both his marriages had been unequal and he'd alrady been divorced once]

Ingrid (1910- 2000); m.1935 Frederik IX of Denmark (1899- 1972)

Bertil, Duke of Halland (1912- 1997); m. 1976 Lilian Davies (b. 1915)

Carl Johan, Duke of Dalecarlie, renounced titles and was created Count of Wisborg 1951 (b. 1916); m. (1)  1946 Kerstin Wijkmark (2) 1988 (div?) Countess Gunilla Wachtmeister af Johannishus [Married unequally shortly before Carl Gustav was born creating a lot of ill-feeling in the family since the pressure was mounting for a male heir]

That was Gustav Adolf's children. Then you go to his brothers:

William, Duke of Södermanland (1884- 1965); m. 1908 (div 1914) GDss Marie (1890- 1958)
 
      Lennart, renounced his rights and was created Count of Wisborg 1951 (1909- 2004); m. (1) 1932 (div 1972) Karin Nissvandt (2) 1972 Sonja Haunz [He already contracted an unequal marriage]

Erik, Duke of Västmanland (1889- 1918) [never married]

Then going back to Gustav V’s brothers, his brother Oscar had renounced his rights to marry a commoner. Carl had married Ingeborg of Denmark and but only had one son (Carl Jr). Carl Jr, Duke of Östergötland, renounced his rights and was granted the title Prince Bernadotte by Albert I of Belgium 1937 (1911- 2003); m.(1 1937 (div 1951) Countess Elsa von Rosen (2)  1954 (div 1961) Ann Margareta (3)  1978 Kristine Rivelsrud. So he was ineligible.

So you can see for all the men in the family there weren’t a lot of heirs. It was somewhat reminiscent of George III and all his sons yet no heirs when Princess Charlotte died. Prince Bertil (if you look at his date of marriage) performed a great sacrifice. He was in love with Lilian (who was from Wales) but because of the dearth of heirs put off marrying (which would’ve meant renouncing his titles and thus becoming ineligible) until after his nephew was married. For this sacrifice, which prevented him from having children of his own, when he did marry, Lilian was granted the title of ‘Princess’ (which apparently annoyed his other siblings who’d had to renounce but oh well) and is still a beloved figure in the Swedish family and often seen at family events. Apparently she is seen as a grandmother figure to CPss Victoria, Prince Carl and Princess Madeleine.
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: Finelly on June 16, 2005, 08:25:14 PM
Sybilla was one of those women who was incapable of nurturing others.  She was unable to cope with the loss of her husband, though there isn't much evidence that she was madly in love with him.  In short, once he died, she pretty much abdicated responsibility for raising the kids.  Swedes do not appreciate that.
They also did not appreciate her Nazi heritage.  Although Sweden was not occupied by Germany, it was a real possibility.  Germany was hated during the war and afterwards when the crimes against the Jews were discovered.  Compare Sybilla to Wahlenberg, who actually saved Jews and fought the Nazis.  
Sybilla's memory is not revered and I'm suprised anyone is interested in her!
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: grandduchessella on June 16, 2005, 08:49:47 PM
Just out of curiosity, are you Swedish Finelly?
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: Finelly on June 16, 2005, 11:52:54 PM
Yes, I sure am.  Born and bred, but I live in the U.S.
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: Frederika on June 17, 2005, 03:56:06 AM
i think some people are intrested in her as there is no information on her i seem to have an intrest in infamous royals maybe i just belive that most people are not that bad if we can understand them more. :-/
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: grandduchessella on June 17, 2005, 08:39:08 AM
Quote
Yes, I sure am.  Born and bred, but I live in the U.S.


Thanks. It'll be nice to have another Scandinavian viewpoint on here since we have a whole thread on those monarchies now.  :)
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: Finelly on June 17, 2005, 08:56:58 PM
I'm thrilled to have finally gotten my act together and joined this board, after lurking for a long time!

As you probably know, Swedes have a like/ridicule (as opposed to love/hate!) relationship with our royals.  I've always followed the news - I remember collecting magazines with covers of Sylvia with the newborn Victoria long, long ago (even though I'm only, um, 29!)
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: TJ Jones on June 19, 2005, 02:20:38 AM
What did Sybilla think of morganatic marriage? Was she against it? She seems a very rigid person.
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: stepan on June 26, 2005, 04:12:02 PM
Quote
What did Sybilla think of morganatic marriage? Was she against it? She seems a very rigid person.

I don´t think it´s  fair to say she was a rigid person. I think she was often misunderstood here in Sweden. I think she was rather shy ,not a sponanous person and  she never learned the language very well. Also the pressure on her to get an heir was great. I think inside she was a warm person but had difficulty to show it. And then came the nazi period and the war and being german wasen´t easy . Her father was much involved with the nazi regime.( He was born English and grandson of Queen Victoria but was chosen at the age of 15 to become duke of Saxe-coburg-Gotha) So I don´t think it was very easy for her. And then after the war her husband died and she was left with five children to raise. I think she resembles a lot to Alexandra Feodorovna who also never got very close to her people and was much misunderstood.
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: Finelly on June 26, 2005, 10:42:40 PM
I agree in part.  She never did learn the language.  She was very restrained and had a hard time adapting.  She did go thru some pretty bad times.

On the other hand, it's not like she had to raise the children by herself.  She had plenty of nannies, etc.  She had no real obligations in the court.  She isolated herself and didn't take advantage of the friendships and support that were offered.

And, really, what Swedish biographers and court-watchers ever thought she was a good person, simply misunderstood?  I've never read of any.  I recall in several Swedish magazines when she died, there wasn't a ton of sympathy for her...
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: Lucien on October 24, 2005, 06:11:33 AM
Don't feel all that sorry for the girl,she could have learned the language but she thought that she was the top and didn't have to make an effort,she well could have but didn't.A cold,scheming woman and mother,and even more so after her husbands death realising she would never be Queen,she became a drama-queen instead.
Nonetheless,here's their wedding pic,I'm sorry,I just strongly dislike this woman,look at that face....
http://www.seegerpress-online.de/seegerpress-cgi/topixx?op=preview&ID=1075447830&str...
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: Rebecca on October 24, 2005, 07:35:54 PM
The reason why princess Sibylla was never popular in Sweden is due to a mixture of different causes. She spoke Swedish badly - if this was because she did not think it was necessary to learn it (which is an opinion you hear very often) or if it was because she simply did not have the ability to learn it or if it was of any other reason I guess she was the only one to really know.

I don´t remember her at all as she died years before I was even born, but I´ve asked questions about her to my parents (my father passed away last year), other relatives and other people who remembers her, and it is rather striking that nobody, and I mean, nobody, has anything positive to say about her. Descriptions like "stuck up", "cold", "rigid" and "arrogant" are plentiful.

It is true that some of her family were Nazis, for example her father, duke Karl Eduard (Charles Edward) of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha. Probably her brother Hubertus was one as well. He was killed in action on the east front in 1943. It was said that he was her favourite brother (maybe because they were close in age, her being born 1908 and him 1909). Her brother-in-law (first husband of her sister Caroline Mathilde, "Calma") was also killed in the war (but he and Calma was divorced by then). I don´t know if her other brothers were in the German forces, but maybe someone else knows? She also said in an interview many years after the war that she did think that Hitler could save Germany. Then she added: "We all thought so."

Whether Sibylla herself sympathized with the Nazis or not is a matter of debate. She did attend charity meetings and - parties with the unhidden purpose to collect money to be sent to Germany arranged by either the German embassy, other Germans living in Sweden or Swedish people with strong Nazi sympaties (I read this somewhere a long time ago, but stupidly enough I have forgotten where, otherwise I would have given a source for this).

Her husband, prince Gustaf Adolf, is sometimes said to have had Nazi sympaties as well, but this is a very hush-hush subject in Sweden and very little is known for sure. There are photos of him with Göring and I have seen at least one with him shaking hands with Hitler (not that this is any real proof of Nazi sympaties, but still it is embarrassing, of course).

It is also true that there were strong anti-German feelings in Sweden towards the end of the war and after it. To a little extent this may explain why Sibylla was never popular in Sweden, but it can not explain it entirely, especially since she was unpopular even before.

Yes, there was a heavy pressure for her to deliver a boy, and she finally did it, after having had four daughters. However I do not think that this really mattered in the question of her (non-existant) popularity.

Her daughters were extremely popular even before their little brother was born, and thousands of girls were named Margareta, Birgitta and Christina in the 1930's to 1960's in Sweden because of them (for some reason the name Desirée did not become popular).

Princess Sibylla is more or less forgotten amongst the younger generations in Sweden. If you ask a school student who the King´s mother was, there is a big chance (or risk) that you get the wrong answer or, even more likely, the reply: I don´t know.
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: Rebecca on October 24, 2005, 07:56:06 PM
By the way, Sibylla is said to have met Gustaf Adolf at a wedding in England, probably the wedding of her cousin lady May Cambridge to Henry Abel Smith in 1931. It is also said that Gustaf Adolf´s sister Ingrid had persuaded him to attend the wedding (as she wanted him to meet Sibylla).
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: crazy_wing on October 25, 2005, 02:05:45 AM
Quote
Nonetheless,here's their wedding pic,I'm sorry,I just strongly dislike this woman,look at that face....
http://www.seegerpress-online.de/seegerpress-cgi/topixx?op=preview&ID=1075447830&str...


Sybilla was quite cute when she was a little girl but yes, she did grew up to be rather mean looking...  
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: bell_the_cat on October 26, 2005, 03:24:54 AM
Quote
By the way, Sibylla is said to have met Gustaf Adolf at a wedding in England, probably the wedding of her cousin lady May Cambridge to Henry Abel Smith in 1931. It is also said that Gustaf Adolf´s sister Ingrid had persuaded him to attend the wedding (as she wanted him to meet Sibylla).


Thanks Rebecca, for the Swedish view on Sibylla.

My guess is that she was already a bit embittered by the time she came to Sweden. Her father had a very bumpy ride in the Duchy of Sachsen-Coburg-Gotha. It sounds like a small place, but the politics were very complicated! For one thing Coburg and Gotha are separated, about 60 km apart, and were quite different. Gotha was a rapidly growing industrial city and Coburg a provincial backwater. The Duke had to reconcile these different interests and defend himself from accusations of being pro-English (ironically). The unpleasantness of the job certainly contributed to the early death of Queen Victoria's son Alfred. Charles Edward of course lost his throne in 1918, but unfortunately continued to be involved in local politics. He saw the Nazi connection as a way of restoring his position (at least in Coburg).

Having had to defend himself against accusations of being pro-english, he became an ultra German nationalist.

By the way the name is Sibylla (or Sibyl) in English as well as in Swedish - I had to look it up though, as it was driving me crazy reading the alternating spellings on this thread!

Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: grandduchessella on October 26, 2005, 11:53:11 AM
Quote
It is true that some of her family were Nazis, for example her father, duke Karl Eduard (Charles Edward) of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha. Probably her brother Hubertus was one as well. He was killed in action on the east front in 1943.

Whether Sibylla herself sympathized with the Nazis or not is a matter of debate. She did attend charity meetings and - parties with the unhidden purpose to collect money to be sent to Germany arranged by either the German embassy, other Germans living in Sweden or Swedish people with strong Nazi sympaties (I read this somewhere a long time ago, but stupidly enough I have forgotten where, otherwise I would have given a source for this).

Her husband, prince Gustaf Adolf, is sometimes said to have had Nazi sympaties as well, but this is a very hush-hush subject in Sweden and very little is known for sure. There are photos of him with Göring and I have seen at least one with him shaking hands with Hitler (not that this is any real proof of Nazi sympaties, but still it is embarrassing, of course).



The Duke of Coburg was a devout Nazi and George V refused to allow the POW to attend Sybilla's wedding in Coburg. On the evening of the wedding, 4000 Nazis marched in a torchlight procession through the town. The actual wedding route was lined by saluting Brownshirts, and a message from Hitler was read out at the reception. Gustav V had wanted to attend the wedding but was convinced not to on the grounds that the ceremony would be used to stage pro-Nazi demonstrations.

Edmund did not share the popularity of his other relatives due to his rather introverted and irascible nature and this probably carried over to his wife as well. His political views caused distrust as well as he was regarded as very right-wing. The Nazi connection bothered people too and civic dignitaries refused to participate in the wedding festivities held Stockholm when the newlyweds returned. They were disturbed by the fact that Edmund had recently been present at a Stahlhelm meeting. As Gustav V was fond of Sybilla the government worried that she could influence him in pro-German and pro-Nazi sympthies and could be jeopardizing the monarchy.
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: Rebecca on October 29, 2005, 03:37:23 AM
Quote

By the way the name is Sibylla (or Sibyl) in English as well as in Swedish - I had to look it up though, as it was driving me crazy reading the alternating spellings on this thread!



I also think that she was somewhat embittered already before she came to Sweden. I don't know all that many details on her family, but it has always struck me to seem to be a rather bitter family, at least after WWI. Sibylla´s sister, Calma, complained in an interview made in the 1960's about her family in general and Sibylla in particular not wanting anything to do with her after her second, unequal marriage.

Yes, her name in Swedish is Sibylla. When she married Gustaf Adolf her name was introduced in the Swedish calendar, on 20th October (as a nameday; back then there was one name on each day; now there are generally two names on each day), but it never came popular. On the other hand, a fast-food-chain, serving mainly hot dogs and nowadays also hamburgers, is named after her, Sibylla. :D
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: Rebecca on October 29, 2005, 03:44:20 AM
Quote

The Duke of Coburg was a devout Nazi and George V refused to allow the POW to attend Sybilla's wedding in Coburg. On the evening of the wedding, 4000 Nazis marched in a torchlight procession through the town. The actual wedding route was lined by saluting Brownshirts, and a message from Hitler was read out at the reception. Gustav V had wanted to attend the wedding but was convinced not to on the grounds that the ceremony would be used to stage pro-Nazi demonstrations.
 
Edmund did not share the popularity of his other relatives due to his rather introverted and irascible nature and this probably carried over to his wife as well. His political views caused distrust as well as he was regarded as very right-wing. The Nazi connection bothered people too and civic dignitaries refused to participate in the wedding festivities held Stockholm when the newlyweds returned. They were disturbed by the fact that Edmund had recently been present at a Stahlhelm meeting. As Gustav V was fond of Sybilla the government worried that she could influence him in pro-German and pro-Nazi sympthies and could be jeopardizing the monarchy.



Thank you very much for the information, Granduchessella.  I didn't know about the torchligth procession. It gives me an even more negative picture of the wedding and Sibylla's family.  >:(

Edmund, as Gustaf Adolf was called within the family, was later been described by his cousin Lennart as something of a bully. He was dyslectic (something of a trade in the Bernadotte family) and obviously had an urge to be the leader and the best, despite the fact that he may not have had the needed abilities for that.
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: bell_the_cat on October 29, 2005, 02:08:06 PM
Quote

Yes, her name in Swedish is Sibylla. When she married Gustaf Adolf her name was introduced in the Swedish calendar, on 20th October (as a nameday; back then there was one name on each day; now there are generally two names on each day), but it never came popular. On the other hand, a fast-food-chain, serving mainly hot dogs and nowadays also hamburgers, is named after her, Sibylla. :D



Served with a smile no doubt! ;)
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: Wettin on November 05, 2005, 03:45:34 PM
I remember princess Sibylla as a shy person who blossomed in small companies. Then she would get lively, gesturing and joking. She was good at interior decoration and succeded in making her private rooms very cosy within a royal frame. She needed a lot of privacy. We never talked about the 1930´s in Germany because we all knew how tumultous they were and how difficult it sometimes was to have a historically seen correct picture and opinion. In the late 1960´s it became popular in Sweden to hunt her down. Her two youngest children tried to talk to the press but not to much avail. A now famous Swedish painter even exhibited a sexually infamous painting of her. This hurt many of us.

Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: bell_the_cat on November 06, 2005, 02:39:52 AM
Thanks Wettin, for redressing the balance on Princess Sibylla. :)
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: Rebecca on November 06, 2005, 02:56:38 AM



Barbro Alving, a well reputed Swedish journalist and writer (her signature was Bang), was a friend of princess Sibylla, and she also said some time that Sibylla had a rather unusual sense of humour. However, I don't think it was ever popular to "hunt her down", and quite certainly, princess Sibylla was impopular long before the 60's. Who was the now famous Swedish artist? I'd like to know, as I've never heard of that story.
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: stepan on November 06, 2005, 08:24:00 PM
The artist is Peter Dahl and the painting from 1970 is called "Lberalismens genombrott i societeten".(The break-through of Liberalism in the upper class).  It caused a big scandal at the time. The painting was confiscated by the police and the artist was accused of lese-majesty but  the charge was eventually rejected. The painting showed an obscenity with an onlooking horrified Sibylla among other people. I don´t know where the painting is now, but probably in a museum.It made the artist famous in Sweden no doubt.
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: Rebecca on November 07, 2005, 01:50:08 PM
Quote
The artist is Peter Dahl and the painting from 1970 is called "Lberalismens genombrott i societeten".(The break-through of Liberalism in the upper class).  It caused a big scandal at the time. The painting was confiscated by the police and the artist was accused of lese-majesty but  the charge was eventually rejected. The painting showed an obscenity with an onlooking horrified Sibylla among other people. I don´t know where the painting is now, but probably in a museum.It made the artist famous in Sweden no doubt.



Thank you very much for the information. I had never heard of this story (it's rather strange that I have not heard of it, but it happened several years before I was born, which perhaps explains it), but somehow it doesn't surprise me that the artist is Peter Dahl, who has built his fame largely on being provocative. I made a quick search to find out more about the painting, and a lot came up. The descriptions of the painting in question makes me glad that I have never seen it. Absolutely obscene and disgraceful!  >:(

This is one of the reasons why I like this forum - the chance to learn. So, again, thank you for the info.
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: Frederika on November 12, 2005, 05:48:14 AM
i have been trying to find this picture but have had no luck what so ever has it been band ? ???
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: bell_the_cat on November 12, 2005, 10:55:29 AM
Quote
i have been trying to find this picture but have had no luck what so ever has it been band ? ???



Frederika !!!  :o ;D

(I couldn't find it either)
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: Frederika on February 13, 2006, 08:03:39 AM
I found the picture of her its much more explicit than i thought it would be :-[http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v732/raos/libralismens_genombrott_i_s1.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v732/raos/libralismens_genombrott_i_s1.jpg)
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: Marc on February 16, 2006, 07:13:19 AM
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b375/auersperg22/GustavSibylla.jpg)
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: Marc on February 16, 2006, 07:14:38 AM
Sybilla's wedding photo....
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: Leuchtenberg on February 16, 2006, 06:14:26 PM
Does anyone know how well she got along with her (step)mother-in-law Louise Mountbatten?

I have always wondered of the relationship between Sybilla and Queen Ingrid.  I have only ever read one reference about it stating that Queen Ingrid was "fond of her sister-in-law".
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: Rebecca on February 18, 2006, 03:18:26 PM
Quote
Does anyone know how well she got along with her (step)mother-in-law Louise Mountbatten?

I have always wondered of the relationship between Sybilla and Queen Ingrid.  I have only ever read one reference about it stating that Queen Ingrid was "fond of her sister-in-law".



I am not sure of how well princess Sibylla got along with queen Louise. The relationships between queen Louise and most of her stepchilden was not very warm, although I believe that queen Louise did her very best. It is said that everything was easier with the grandchildren, although they did not call her grandmother.

It is said that it was Ingrid who introduced Sibylla and prince Gustaf Adolf to each other, or at least made sure that he went to the wedding where it is said that he met Sibylla (probably the wedding of lady May Cambridge and sir Henry Abel Smith). Ingrid is said to have been of the opinion that Sibylla and Gustaf Adolf would be a good match. I do not know how the relationship between Ingrid and Sibylla was later, though. Maybe World War II put a strain on it, or maybe not.
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: Leuchtenberg on February 18, 2006, 06:30:58 PM
Quote


 The relationships queen Louise and most of her stepchilden was not very warm, although I believe that queen Louise did her very best. It is said that everything was easier with the grandchildren, although they did not call her grandmother.
 


Poor Louise.  I had always gotten the impression from things I've read that she was never really accepted and cared for within the family.
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: Rebecca on February 19, 2006, 02:33:55 AM
Leuchtenberg, that is the same impression I have got. Among her stepchildren especially Ingrid was a problem to her, and even got hostile at times. Ingrid's brother Sigvard wrote about this in his memoirs. The children of Gustaf Adolf and Sibylla is said to have called Louise "Tant It" or just "It" (tant approximately means aunt); "It" was in this case a term of endearment, but like I said before, it is said that they never called her grandmother.
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: grandduchessella on February 19, 2006, 01:56:01 PM
Yes, Ingrid, being the only daughter was very close to her mother and also possessive of her father after Daisy died. Not an uncommon stepmother/stepdaughter relationship.
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: La_Rainha on February 27, 2006, 05:03:37 AM
I don`t know news about the contact between Queen Louise and Princess Sybilla! But Ìm sure, that the life of Louise was not easy in the first time of her stay in Sweden! The former Crownprincess MArgaret was a very nice looking woman, the photos with her and the five children are really too nice! But in Margarets face, there was not often a smile! Louise Mountbatten was not such a good looking woman, but in her face is living and power! That her stepchildren were not friendly to her is really possible!
Coming to Sybilla!
From a swedisch friend, I heard, that Sybilla was never very popular in Sweden! She never got a direct contact to the people and stayed more in her world!
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: Linnea on March 09, 2006, 02:46:22 AM
Today there is an article about Gustav Adolf and the nazis in "Aftonbladet":
http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/nyheter/story/0,2789,789873,00.html
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: Rebecca on March 09, 2006, 02:40:37 PM
Quote
Today there is an article about Gustav Adolf and the nazis in "Aftonbladet":
http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/nyheter/story/0,2789,789873,00.html




In April this year a biography on Gustav Adolf will be published in Sweden (in Swedish), "Han som aldrig fick bli kung" by Per Svensson. It will be interesting to see how much this book deals with the nazi connection. I will buy it as soon as it is published. :)
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: zolishka on February 11, 2008, 05:05:47 PM
Biography on Sibylla by Boger Lundgren was published last year, only in Swedish. The book is based on interviews with her children.
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: zolishka on February 15, 2008, 03:12:44 PM
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/likeafly/sverige/medingrid.jpg)
Sibylla with Gustav Adolfs sister Ingrid, the one who brought the two of them together

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/likeafly/sverige/Image2.jpg)
With Gustav Adolf

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/likeafly/sverige/Image3.jpg)
Sibylla, I like her - she and her husband was not often photographed smiling, but when she did she had such a happy, sunny, face
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: Mari on February 16, 2008, 06:41:41 AM
Her Face looks really different when She smiles!
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: XJaseyRaeX on February 17, 2008, 11:28:44 AM
here are some pictures of Sybilla with her daughters...

(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e386/mashka1899/swedish%20royal%20family/212256.jpg)

(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e386/mashka1899/swedish%20royal%20family/Med20sina20barn.jpg)

(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e386/mashka1899/swedish%20royal%20family/Med20DC3A9sirC3A9e2C20Margaretha202.jpg)

(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e386/mashka1899/swedish%20royal%20family/U1088839INP.jpg)

(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e386/mashka1899/swedish%20royal%20family/PrincessSibyllaandPrincessMargareth.jpg)

(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e386/mashka1899/swedish%20royal%20family/syster06.jpg)
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: Adagietto on February 28, 2008, 10:06:51 AM
Thank you for the pictures, I can add one or two more. As a little girl:
(http://inlinethumb07.webshots.com/2886/2384193200100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

Engagement picture:
(http://inlinethumb46.webshots.com/37101/2888179770100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

Wedding:
(http://inlinethumb14.webshots.com/29709/2424796780100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

Later:
(http://inlinethumb27.webshots.com/37978/2482181480100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

I find her beautiful but in a rather cold sort of way.
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: DavidH on November 07, 2008, 05:31:15 AM
There was a major article on Princess Sybilla in Royalty Digest a few years ago which gave lots of details about her childhood, marriage, widowhood etc. Its such a shame the monthly magazine stopped publication - it was a treasure trove of information, images, reviews etc - and included excellent articles on many lesser known royalties.
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: Svetabel on November 07, 2008, 06:03:53 AM
There was a major article on Princess Sybilla in Royalty Digest a few years ago which gave lots of details about her childhood, marriage, widowhood etc. Its such a shame the monthly magazine stopped publication - it was a treasure trove of information, images, reviews etc - and included excellent articles on many lesser known royalties.

Royalty Digest   was relaunched as Royalty Digest Quarterly - a wonderful magazine by the way.
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: DavidH on November 07, 2008, 06:16:15 AM
I agree - and all credit to RDM - but it is a long wait between issues. I miss the monthly magazine.
Title: Re: Princess Sybilla
Post by: Gabriella on October 28, 2011, 02:11:47 PM
(http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb175/silkedorothea/For%20AP%20Forum/101247_001.jpg)