Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => The Hohenzollern => Topic started by: Frederika on May 05, 2005, 01:36:49 PM

Title: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Frederika on May 05, 2005, 01:36:49 PM
....
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on May 05, 2005, 04:47:20 PM
Do you mean the Kira who married Prince Louis Ferdinand of Germany? There was another Kira of Prussia (b.1943-d.2004) as well.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Svetabel on May 06, 2005, 11:33:04 AM
I think she was more  prettier than her sister Maria. GD Vladimir Kirillovitch (her brother) wrote some lines about Kyra in his memoirs. Brother and sister were very close to each other and their parents. Kyra had an athletic figure in her youth - she played tennis and golf and was a perfect swimmer. Quite a sturdy woman - she gave birth to so many children! :)
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Svetabel on May 06, 2005, 12:53:06 PM
When looking at this picture of Kyra I think about her aunt, Queen Marie of Roumania for some reason. The pose of Kyra reminds me  somewhat of Missy's theatrality and love for fancy-dresses.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Kyra.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Svetabel on May 06, 2005, 12:57:20 PM
Kyra,her brother and  parents. Still united family in 1935. Ducky looks dignified as usual.


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Kyrafam.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Frederika on May 06, 2005, 04:29:09 PM
she died quite young like her mother do you no what she died of?
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Marc on May 06, 2005, 08:11:24 PM
Have some more pictures of Kyra?
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Svetabel on May 07, 2005, 03:15:47 AM


Kyra died suddenly of heart attack while staying with her husband at her brother's (in St-Briac).
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Svetabel on May 07, 2005, 08:27:03 AM
Striking beauty Kyra

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Kyra1.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Kyra2.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Marc on May 07, 2005, 03:39:44 PM
Great pictures...thanks!
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: TampaBay on May 07, 2005, 08:44:08 PM
Quote
Wedding picture of Princess Kira of Russia(if you wanted this Kira) and Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia!



Marc or GD Ella,

Was this a love match or a dynastic-arranged match?

I know Louis Ferdinand was partial to the USA and American women.  I also know that he spoke very highly (almost worship) of his wife Kira in his later years.  He lived to be 90+ years old if I am not mistaken.

Please post all information you have as I am very interested.  Is not the current head of the Hohenzollern (Protestant branch) family his twenty-something year old grandson?

I may be wrong because the "Hohs" can get very confusing!!

TampaBay
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Svetabel on May 08, 2005, 02:28:18 AM
IMHO this was a love-match. When you look at all pictures of Kyra and Louis Ferdinand (engagement,wedding, etc) together it is easy to see that they look very happy. Esp.Louis Ferdinand  :)
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Marc on May 09, 2005, 07:47:59 AM
Yes,indeed and she realy was beautifull!
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: cimbrio on May 09, 2005, 08:01:21 AM
Hello everyone,
I'd like to know something about the half Romanov half Hohenzollern princes, sons and daughters of Ludwig Ferdiannd of Prussia and his Russian wife Kira Kirillovna.

-William, the first son gave up his rights of succession to the (nonexistent) German throne. He had 4 children with two wives.

-Michael did the same thing, and had two children.

-Cecilia married (and later divorced) Frederick of Oldenburg.

-Kira married beneath her. She died two years ago (what did she die of?)

-Ludwig Ferdinand was married to Donata zu castell and had two children (the youngest, a daughter, born after his death). He died in an accident. His son is the present head of the Hohenzollern family. Donata married Friedrich of Oldenburg, divorced husband of Ludwig Ferdinand's sister.

-Christian Sigismund married a minor noble. He and his descendants are still considered members of the Imperial family of Germany.

-Xenia married beneath her. She died in 1992 of athsma.

Can anyone fill in me in with some details about the whoel business of Donata's marriage with frederick of Oldenburg? How did the Hohenzollerns feel about it? Were they OK? Where (and with who) does the head of the family live these days? What is the relationship between these Hohenzollerns and their Russiabn cousins?

Cimbrio
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Lisa on May 24, 2005, 12:48:08 PM
1938
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/lyzotchka1/1938.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Lisa on May 24, 2005, 12:50:01 PM
with the "ex"-Kaiser
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/lyzotchka1/File0006.jpg)


and her wedding tiara as a Russian kokoshnik
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/lyzotchka1/MC3A4ander2DDiadem.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Lisa on May 24, 2005, 12:51:27 PM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/lyzotchka1/2k.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on May 24, 2005, 03:31:09 PM
Quote
with the "ex"-Kaiser
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/lyzotchka1/File0006.jpg)

 and her wedding tiara as a Russian kokoshnik
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/lyzotchka1/MC3A4ander2DDiadem.jpg)


She is actually wearing Crown Princess Cecile's famed Meander tiara. It was a diamond & platinum tiara by the Imperial jeweller Koch. Crown Prince Wilhelm gave it to Cecile at their wedding in 1905.

The tiara is made up of two rows of meanders, separated by trelliswork. In the centre of each trellis is a large brilliant.

Cecile gave Kira this tiara to wear when she married her son Louis Ferdinand in 1938. It was subsequently worn by Kira's daughters Marie-Cecile when she wed in 1965 and Xenia at her wedding in 1973.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Lisa on May 25, 2005, 06:57:19 AM
Quote

She is actually wearing Crown Princess Cecile's famed Meander tiara. It was a diamond & platinum tiara by the Imperial jeweller Koch. Crown Prince Wilhelm gave it to Cecile at their wedding in 1905.

The tiara is made up of two rows of meanders, separated by trelliswork. In the centre of each trellis is a large brilliant.

Cecile gave Kira this tiara to wear when she married her son Louis Ferdinand in 1938. It was subsequently worn by Kira's daughters Marie-Cecile when she wed in 1965 and Xenia at her wedding in 1973.

I didn't know! thank you!
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: David_Pritchard on June 18, 2005, 03:26:35 PM
Quote
Ludwig Ferdinand was married to Donata zu castell and had two children (the youngest, a daughter, born after his death). He died in an accident. His son is the present head of the Hohenzollern family. Donata married Friedrich of Oldenburg, divorced husband of Ludwig Ferdinand's sister.


I had heard from a longtime friend of the elder Louis Ferdinand that the son had been killed during his participation in West German Army manoeuvers. It seems that he was between two trucks or other large vehicles when one backed up.

If you would like to learn more about the son who is the present head of the Royal House of Prussia, please see this link: http://www.preussen.de/de/heute.html

DAP

Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Marlene on June 20, 2005, 09:09:31 AM

Kira's husband was baptised Louis Ferdinand.  Not Ludwig.

In terms of the succession, he was rather old-fashioned, which is not a surprise.  He came to the inheritance because his older brother married morganatically.  Moreover, the Kaiser's Will provided strict instructions for inheritance.  

The eldest son, Wilhelm, tried to claim (after dad's death) that his second marriage to Ehrengard was equal.  It wasn't.  Michael also tried the same with his second wife, Birgitte (saying she was a von Dallwitz -- she isn't.  Wilhelm divorced Ehrengard and has married a third time.


Marie Cecile (not Cecilia) is divorced from Friedrich  - and yes, he is married to her sister-in-law.  Donata was not the reason for the breakup however.  There was a  bit of consernation regarding this marriage -- even  Louis Ferdinand was a bit upset by it, because he was rather protective of Donata.

Kira died of cancer.


Georg Friedrich maintains a home in Berlin, but did live for a time in the Rüdenhausen area.  He is probably closer to his mother's family than his father - especially due to the court case.  But he has been trying to mend fences.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: cimbrio on September 05, 2005, 06:59:50 AM
Quote

Marie Cecile (not Cecilia) is divorced from Friedrich  -


I wrote the names in English, thus William and Cecilia and not Wilhelm or Cecilie or Cäcilie ;)
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Linnea on September 05, 2005, 01:09:44 PM
as a newly engaged couple under the christmas tree:
(http://www.preussen.de/Bilder/Presse/Louis_Ferdinand_sen/LF_-_Verlobung_Cecilienhof_Jan_1938-400x300_(72dpi).jpg)
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Linnea on September 05, 2005, 01:15:44 PM
weding in 1938: Kira is dancing with her daddy, while Louis Ferdinand is looking a little bit lost:
(http://www.preussen.de/Bilder/Presse/Louis_Ferdinand_sen/Hochzeit_LF_10_-_Kira_mit_Vater_-_400x300_(72dpi).jpg)
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: cimbrio on September 05, 2005, 01:25:31 PM
Linnea, Vielen Danke! Those are splendid photographs, especially the wedding one with Kira dancing with her father :) I loved Berg Hohenzollern, it was a lovely place to visit, I wish I had a scanner to post some photos I took :)
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Linnea on September 05, 2005, 02:12:32 PM
another pic which is worth to be posted:
The family in 1946
(http://www.preussen.de/Bilder/Familie/Familienalbum/INTERNET_-_Familiengruppe_1946.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Linnea on September 05, 2005, 02:21:12 PM
last one I post, promise ;D!
(http://www.preussen.de/Bilder/Familie/Familienalbum/INTERNET_-_Hochzeit_Doorn.jpg)
next to Louis Ferdinand Kira´s father, the man who is sitting on the floor next to the bride is her brother, isn´t he?
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Lucien on September 06, 2005, 03:40:14 PM
The wedding was at Huis Doorn,residence of the exiled Kaiser in The Netherlands.On the official picture with all the guests,the second lady(from the right)sitting,was the then Crownprincess Juliana of The Netherlands.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Lucien on September 06, 2005, 03:48:06 PM
Quote


I had heard from a longtime friend of the elder Louis Ferdinand that the son had been killed during his participation in West German Army manoeuvers. It seems that he was between two trucks or other large vehicles when one backed up.

quote]

Actually,it was a tank.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: cimbrio on September 07, 2005, 03:19:44 AM
Man there are some awful deaths sometimes...  :-/
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Linnea on September 07, 2005, 04:30:58 AM
Quote
Man there are some awful deaths sometimes...  :-/

you are right  :'(. And his wife was pregnant with their second child, it must have been terrible...
anyway, the two "Lulus" in better times:
(http://www.preussen.de/Bilder/Familie/Familienalbum/INTERNET_-_2_Lulus.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: cimbrio on September 07, 2005, 05:03:00 AM
What is Prince Georg Friedrich like? I mean, is her a very active social person or does he stay in the abckground of the gossip columns? Does he ever participate in any events related to the Hohenzollern family? If he chose to marry a commoner, would his rights go to another person from the family? Go on Linnea, you seem to know a lot ;)
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Linnea on September 07, 2005, 06:46:25 AM
Thanks! There was a big interview with Prince Georg Friedrich of Prussia in the political magazine Cicero. He seems to be a very nice guy, who wants to represent the Hohenzollern family as modern and dignified as possible, as he says. He does a lot of social work as does his mother, but he don´t want to be a "jet-set-royal". Well if he marries a commoner, he would lose his position, but I don´t think he´ll do that as his girlfriend is said to be Princess Sophie zu Isenburg.

a pic of him and Michael Platzek, the chief minister of Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, at Castle Hohenzollern
(http://www.preussen.de/Bilder/Heute/Aktuell/MP_SKH.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: nikks on September 09, 2005, 02:24:41 PM
Who is LULU, please write clear titles.
A suggestion :'(
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Linnea on September 09, 2005, 03:43:39 PM
Quote
Who is LULU, please write clear titles.
A suggestion :'(

Lulu was the nickname of HRH Louis Ferdinand sen. Prince of Prussia. I think it is OK to call him so as he´s called this way on the offical homepage of the house of Hohenzollern which is run by his grandson and succesor as head of the family HRH Georg Friedrich Prinz von Preussen ;).
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: thijs on January 13, 2006, 03:38:35 PM
The wedding at Doorn of Louis Ferdinand with grandduchess Kyra, with special guests Juliana and Bernhard. Queen Juliana stayed friends with Kyra all her life.


(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b164/bernogreat/2006-01-12-1130-02_edited.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: thijs on January 13, 2006, 03:44:55 PM
Louis Ferdinand and Kyra with their children

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b164/bernogreat/2006-01-12-1128-49_edited.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Eurohistory on March 15, 2006, 08:20:21 PM
Now available through Amazon.com:  
 
In Memoriam... is an exclusive EUROHISTORY royalty series dedicated to the life of some of the most interesting and intriguing royal personalities of the XXth century. Lavishly illustrated with many rare photographs from EUROHISTORY's renowned photo archive - each volume contains more than 130 wonderful images of the person it pays tribute to. We have also included family trees and genealogical information, as well as biography of the person or couple the volume pays tribute to.    
 
The third volume of our royalty series pays tribute to Grand Duchess Kira of Russia & her husband Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia!

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000F1TGZ4/104-7898788-5091928

Enjoy,

Arturo Beéche, Publisher
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on March 15, 2006, 08:52:13 PM
Wow--they're available through Amazon now? You're really moving up in the world!  ;) :) From the catalog inserts I've seen, they look like a good series and very unique.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Eurohistory on March 15, 2006, 10:25:14 PM
They are unique productions and we have mined the Eurohistory collection to no end.  Those who have seen it know how vast it is! :-)

I love doing these In Memoriams for they allow us to tell someone's story through word and image. With the use of black/white and color photos they truly are a unique collector's item!

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: imperial angel on May 05, 2006, 11:11:21 AM
I enjoyed this thread. Kyra looked less like Ducky than did Marie, her other daughter. I am glad Kira's marriage was happy, but Ducky didn't live to see it.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: imperial angel on May 05, 2006, 11:37:27 AM
Thanks for the info on Ducky's grand children, everybody who posted to this thread. I enjoyed reading it.  :) They sure had many kids.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Natalya on June 07, 2006, 12:49:42 PM
I think Marie looks very much like Ducky's oldest daughter, Elizabeth of Hesse.  Does anyne else see the resemblence?
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: José on June 08, 2006, 07:20:32 AM
Quote
Striking beauty Kyra

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Kyra1.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Kyra2.jpg)

On 2nd photo one can see a remarkable looklikeness with Ducky
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Morecambrian on June 12, 2006, 12:06:52 PM
Just been reading a guide book to the Burg Hohenzollern in Swabia where Kira and her husband are buried with many other members of the family.The book mentions but does not illustrate a painting of Mary and Jesus byFeodor Bruni (1801-75) which was a christening gift to Kira from her godfather Nicholas II.Presumably the Kirrills managed to take this to Finland when they fled in 1917.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: AGRBear on July 30, 2006, 04:51:13 PM
http://www.preussen.de/en/family/george_frederick_the_prince_of_prussia.html
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: TampaBay on August 05, 2006, 08:18:04 PM
http://www.preussen.de/en/family/george_frederick_the_prince_of_prussia.html


Does anyone know who George Fredrick is keeping compnay with.  George has to make an equal match so I am sure his wedding will attrack match attention from us "Royal Bloggers".  We need a good Royal wedding!  ;) ;) ;)

TampaBay
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Marlene on August 05, 2006, 11:05:40 PM
Prince Georg Friedrich lives in Berlin, and keeps a very low profile due to the awful publicity garnered by the family lawsuit.

He does get invited to royal events but he doesn't seem to be attached to anyone at present. Several years ago, he was rumored to be dating Stephanie of Isenburg, but nothing seems to have come of that.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: carl fraley on August 05, 2006, 11:39:30 PM
Can someone refresh my memory as to what law suite your talking about and what are the details pertaining to it? 
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Marlene on August 06, 2006, 08:54:04 PM
In a nutshell - several years before his death in 1941,  Kaiser Wilhelm II made out his will - setting up a trust to protect the family's assets.  This was not unsual for the former ruling families - the Leiningen princely family set up their trust in 1925 - establishing that when the heir reached the age of 35, he would receive a major portion of the inheritance in order to avoid crushing death taxes.

The former Kaiser's will established a succession - obviously, his eldest son, the Crown Prince, was the actual heir  (and the CP's eldest son was out because of his marriage in 1933 to a commoner).  Prince WIlhelm was killed in 1940.

But in order to protect the family fortune (some of which would be lost after 1945), the bulk of the estate would pass to the Crown Prince's second son louis Ferdinand .. the Kaiser also pointed out that the heir and the next heir (Louis Ferdinand and Louis Ferdinand's heir) would have to marry equally.   Louis ferdinand's two eldest sons knew the rules and renounced rights when they married German commoners in the 1960s.  Both these marriages ended in divorce.  They also knew and acknowledged that their brother Louis Ferdinand would inherit most of the fortune because he was married to a countess (he died in a military accident, leaving behind a young son, Georg Friedrich, who became the heir to his grandfather.)
Both the elder sons remarried.  Friedrich Wilhelm's wife was a von Reden, but it didn't matter because she was not equal - and FW had already renounced.  Michael tried to claim that his wife was a von Dallwitz; in fact, her father was adopted by  the family and took name .. he was not entitled to the von.  When LF died in 1994, the bulk of the fortune went to GF; according German law, all of Louis Ferdinand's children received a percentage of the estate, but GF got the bulk.
The eldest son tried to claim that his second marriage was equal  -- but it wasn't (and he was already separated and living with another woman).  He also tried to state that the will requirement was unfair according to present day German law.  Well, at the first the courts ruled in his favor, but then the final courts ruled in favor of the late Kaiser's will.  I should add that the ruling was not based on the fact that person was the Kaiser, but that a German citizen has the right to provide qualifications for inheritance ... no one can be disinherited. Thanks to the lawsuits, GF is not as rich as he was when he succeeded in 1994.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: TampaBay on August 07, 2006, 05:38:43 AM
Thanks Marlene

TampaBay
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Eurohistory on August 07, 2006, 10:42:59 AM
Georg Friedrich is quite a nice young man, approachable, sympathetic and always willing to stop and have a chat.  The last time I talked and photographed him was at Schloß Salem in May.

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Bernardino on August 15, 2006, 10:36:34 AM
I'm praying for him to be capable to mantain tradition at least for a couple more generations  ::)
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Lucien on June 10, 2007, 02:06:26 AM
Prince Georg Friedrich celebrates his 31 birthday today.

http://www.seegerpress-online.de/seegerpress-cgi/topixx?op=preview&ID=1157848277&string=georg+friedrich

Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: José on June 10, 2007, 11:02:42 AM
In a nutshell - several years before his death in 1941,  Kaiser Wilhelm II made out his will - setting up a trust to protect the family's assets.  This was not unsual for the former ruling families - the Leiningen princely family set up their trust in 1925 - establishing that when the heir reached the age of 35, he would receive a major portion of the inheritance in order to avoid crushing death taxes.

The former Kaiser's will established a succession - obviously, his eldest son, the Crown Prince, was the actual heir  (and the CP's eldest son was out because of his marriage in 1933 to a commoner).  Prince WIlhelm was killed in 1940.

But in order to protect the family fortune (some of which would be lost after 1945), the bulk of the estate would pass to the Crown Prince's second son louis Ferdinand .. the Kaiser also pointed out that the heir and the next heir (Louis Ferdinand and Louis Ferdinand's heir) would have to marry equally.   Louis ferdinand's two eldest sons knew the rules and renounced rights when they married German commoners in the 1960s.  Both these marriages ended in divorce.  They also knew and acknowledged that their brother Louis Ferdinand would inherit most of the fortune because he was married to a countess (he died in a military accident, leaving behind a young son, Georg Friedrich, who became the heir to his grandfather.)
Both the elder sons remarried.  Friedrich Wilhelm's wife was a von Reden, but it didn't matter because she was not equal - and FW had already renounced.  Michael tried to claim that his wife was a von Dallwitz; in fact, her father was adopted by  the family and took name .. he was not entitled to the von.  When LF died in 1994, the bulk of the fortune went to GF; according German law, all of Louis Ferdinand's children received a percentage of the estate, but GF got the bulk.
The eldest son tried to claim that his second marriage was equal  -- but it wasn't (and he was already separated and living with another woman).  He also tried to state that the will requirement was unfair according to present day German law.  Well, at the first the courts ruled in his favor, but then the final courts ruled in favor of the late Kaiser's will.  I should add that the ruling was not based on the fact that person was the Kaiser, but that a German citizen has the right to provide qualifications for inheritance ... no one can be disinherited. Thanks to the lawsuits, GF is not as rich as he was when he succeeded in 1994.

What would happen to the bulk of the fortume if G-F was to marry a commoner (or someone from the lower aristocracy) ?
Would his uncles had any chance in reclaimeing a greater share as G-F did not fulfill the requirements from the kaiser's will ?
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Learning on October 07, 2007, 05:18:24 PM
How is Georg Friedrich Prinz von Preussen viewed in Germany?  I'd think that he is a popular bachelor or potential husband for the right noblewoman: I mean he's good looking and rich! I know he plays no political role, but it seems that he does receive a fair amount of media coverage. Any thoughts? Thanks.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Greenowl on October 09, 2007, 04:34:06 AM
Hello Learning!

Speaking from the perspective of someone who lives in the state of Baden-Württemberg, I have to say that Georg Friedrich Prinz von Preussen is more or less unknown in the south-west of Germany. Obviously such opinions are subjective, but on the other hand, my presence in this forum no doubt indicates that I have some interest in such matters, and he has never come to my attention in any way, good, bad or indifferent, nor have I noticed him being mentioned in the media. The only "former royal" who is well-known here is Carl Herzog von Württemberg (since 1975 head of the former royal family of Württemberg) and his wife, Herzogin Diane. Perhaps Georg Friedrich is better known in the north of Germany (I think he lives in Berlin), in spite of the fact that he studied at the University of Freiburg in Baden-Württemberg and the original family seat, Burg Hohenzollern, is situated in the Schwäbische Alb, also in Baden-Württemberg. However, by and large I think it is fair to say that there is very little interest in the former ruling families here in Germany, with the possible exception of the state of Bavaria.

Greetings from sunny Baden-Württemberg!
GREENOWL
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Learning on October 09, 2007, 06:42:35 AM
Thanks, Greenowl. I appreciate your reply. Rather sad that there is little interest in the former ruling Houses. But, so much water has passed under the bridge. I understand that the Wittelsbachs are still popular in Bavaria. Is Carl popular in Wurttenburg and is the current head of the House of Baden popular in that part of B-W? I suppose there is no talk of a restoration and, indeed, the royals might not want the bother! It is probably easier for them to just lead quiet lives. Thanks again.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Greenowl on October 09, 2007, 08:19:34 AM
Hi Learning!
Herzog Carl does very good work and I think that is the reason why he is popular.  He is a very quiet and self-effacing sort of person (or at least that is my impression of him). Herzogin Diane is far more vivacious and outgoing. Among other things he is involved in the German Red Cross and the Society for children with cancer, as well as being an  Ehrensenator (Honorary Senator??) of the Eberhard-Karl University in Tübingen and the University of Hohenheim. However, I think he is popular in the same way as, for example, Manfred Rommel, former Lord Mayor of Stuttgart and son of General Erwin Rommel (the desert fox), as Manfred Rommel is a real character and a very “down to earth” person who did a great deal during his time as mayor of Stuttgart (1974 to 1996). Thus Herzog Carl is popular for himself and what he does, rather than for the fact that he is a Duke and head of the former royal family of Württemberg and I have never heard anyone express any interest in a restoration. I obviously cannot speak for other German former royal families, as I am not familiar with them, but I think that the House of Württemberg is quite happy with its present situation and has more than enough to keep it busy with the various estates (farms, forests and vineyards), business concerns as well as charity and heritage work.

Strangely enough I know absolutely nothing about the present head of the House of Baden, Max Markgraf von Baden, other than the fact that through his mother he is the nephew of the Duke of Edinburgh. Do you know anything about him? I note that he is called after his grandfather, who was the last imperial chancellor of Germany and presided over the dissolution of the Hohenzollern Empire and the inauguration of the Republic. The government's efforts to secure an armistice were interrupted by the outbreak of revolution in Germany in the first days of November 1918. The then Prinz Max of Baden, realizing that the Kaiser would not be able to retain his throne, urged him to abdicate in order to save the monarchy itself, but the Kaiser refused, despite the urging of Paul von Hindenburg and Wilhelm Groener of the General Staff.  Prinz Max thus announced the abdication without the Kaiser's consent, and resigned in favour of Friedrich Ebert on 9 November 1918. This was immediately followed by the proclamation of the German Republic. I find it one of those odd coincidences that Friedrich Ebert was also from Baden (he was born in Heidelberg).

Cheers,
GREENOWL
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Learning on October 09, 2007, 11:20:01 AM
Greenowl -

Thanks again. While, I am convinced of the advantages of constitutional monarchy, it is obvious that the Federal Republic has found a political system that works well, even if it is a republic!

I know nothing, really, about Max of Baden. It is my understanding that the House of Baden went through some financial troubles in the 70s or 80s, but Max solved the problems by selling some of the old palaces. There was also some sort of scandal about the sell of property belonging to the B-W State Library. I am not sure of the details or whether it was actually a full scandal.

Too bad that the other royals cannot find as prominent a role to play in their hereditary lands as the Wittelsbachs did in Bavaria, although I am sure that the Wettins of Saxony and the Hohenzollerns of Prussia are trying to help in whatever way they can.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Greenowl on October 09, 2007, 03:55:01 PM
Yes, Learning, I agree that the Federal Republic has found a political system that works well, even if it is a republic and I think after all that happened before we should be very thankful about that. However, it is strange that there was hardly any attempt made to restore the monarchy in Germany and even in German literature the subject hardly receives a mention (i.e. there seems to be no German equivalents of, for example, Joseph Roth and Stefan Zweig, who so lamented the passing of the Austro-Hungarian Empire...or at least none that I can think of). Perhaps it is due to the less centralised structure and the fact that the unification of Germany took place relatively late, thus the German Empire only existed for less than fifty years......

Thanks for merging the threads Grandduchessella!
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Noble_descendents on October 09, 2007, 09:13:39 PM
Hi Learning!
Herzog Carl does very good work and I think that is the reason why he is popular.  He is a very quiet and self-effacing sort of person (or at least that is my impression of him). Herzogin Diane is far more vivacious and outgoing. Among other things he is involved in the German Red Cross and the Society for children with cancer, as well as being an  Ehrensenator (Honorary Senator??) of the Eberhard-Karl University in Tübingen and the University of Hohenheim. However, I think he is popular in the same way as, for example, Manfred Rommel, former Lord Mayor of Stuttgart and son of General Erwin Rommel (the desert fox), as Manfred Rommel is a real character and a very “down to earth” person who did a great deal during his time as mayor of Stuttgart (1974 to 1996). Thus Herzog Carl is popular for himself and what he does, rather than for the fact that he is a Duke and head of the former royal family of Württemberg and I have never heard anyone express any interest in a restoration. I obviously cannot speak for other German former royal families, as I am not familiar with them, but I think that the House of Württemberg is quite happy with its present situation and has more than enough to keep it busy with the various estates (farms, forests and vineyards), business concerns as well as charity and heritage work.

Strangely enough I know absolutely nothing about the present head of the House of Baden, Max Markgraf von Baden, other than the fact that through his mother he is the nephew of the Duke of Edinburgh. Do you know anything about him? I note that he is called after his grandfather, who was the last imperial chancellor of Germany and presided over the dissolution of the Hohenzollern Empire and the inauguration of the Republic. The government's efforts to secure an armistice were interrupted by the outbreak of revolution in Germany in the first days of November 1918. The then Prinz Max of Baden, realizing that the Kaiser would not be able to retain his throne, urged him to abdicate in order to save the monarchy itself, but the Kaiser refused, despite the urging of Paul von Hindenburg and Wilhelm Groener of the General Staff.  Prinz Max thus announced the abdication without the Kaiser's consent, and resigned in favour of Friedrich Ebert on 9 November 1918. This was immediately followed by the proclamation of the German Republic. I find it one of those odd coincidences that Friedrich Ebert was also from Baden (he was born in Heidelberg).

Cheers,
GREENOWL



Greenowl

As your knowledge of the Kaiser linage is shown, I would ask your understanding of the following questions.

1. You mention Prince Max von Baden asked Wilhelm 11 to step down but when he declined not to do so, Max von Baden announced Wilhelm's  abdication without his consent.

2. What authority did Max have over Kaiser Wilhelm 11, were their families related by blood line.

3 The 2nd question asked is because Wilhelm 11 inhereited certain genetic markings, as did Max von Baden inherit the same.

4. The markings that become visible also were seen on Wilhelms mother, Vicky Queen Victoria's Daughter.

5 . I have mentioned said ancestor genetic markings that make up the genetic bloodline of some royals, also were inherited by a few of other related dynesties, but because of DNA tests are about to be conducted shortly on one lineage, I cannot say or should not say until DNA tests are concluded and results puplished, then I will if asked provide facts of such inhereited markings. 

Thank you

William Ebert

noble_descendents.bloodline@yahoo.ca

Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Greenowl on October 10, 2007, 07:40:07 AM



The original text of Prince Max of Baden's announcement of the Kaiser's abdication on 9th. November, 1918/Erlaß des Reichskanzlers Prinz Max von Baden über die Abdankung des Kaisers:

Seine Majestät der Kaiser und König haben sich entschlossen, dem Throne zu entsagen.
Der Reichskanzler bleibt noch so lange im Amte, bis die mit der Abdankung Seiner Majestät, dem Thronverzichte Seiner Kaiserlichen und Königlichen Hoheit des Kronprinzen des Deutschen Reichs und von Preußen und der Einsetzung der Regentschaft verbundenen Fragen geregelt sind. Er beabsichtigt, dem Regenten die Ernennung des Abgeordneten Ebert zum Reichskanzler und die Vorlage eines Gesetzentwurfs wegen der Ausschreibung allgemeiner Wahlen für eine verfassungsgebende deutsche Nationalversammlung vorzuschlagen, der es obliegen würde, die künftige Staatsform des deutschen Volk, einschließlich der Volksteile, die ihren Eintritt in die Reichsgrenzen wünschen sollten, endgültig festzustellen.

  Berlin, den 9. November 1918.
Der Reichskanzler.
Prinz Max von Baden.

Note that the text is formulated to indicate that it was the Kaiser himself who made the decision to abdicate (i.e. "Seine Majestät der Kaiser und König.... haben sich entschlossen").

Prince Max was acting in his role as head of the government (i.e. "Reichskanzler") and was trying to sue for peace and obtain a ceasefire in order to avoid a complete German collapse on the western front and the outbreak of revolution on the home front and was urged to make such a move by the OHL (the general staff). Whether that position gave him the authority to over-rule the Kaiser in such matters is a moot point (and I suspect that it did not). The fact that he lied about the Kaiser's willingness to abdicate does not, however, seem to have had much bearing on the situation, which is interesting to consider, as it appears to illustrate either how helpless Wilhelm II was OR how little support he had.

I am no expert on genealogy, so I have no idea whether Prince Max was related by blood to Kaiser Wilhelm II. However, he was  related by marriage, his wife being Princess Marie Louise of Cumberland Hanover.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: allanraymond on December 03, 2007, 08:06:19 AM
This is possible the closest relationship.

Max and Wilhelm 11 were second cousins once removed.

Max's greatgrandmother (via his mother Princess Maria Romanovsky) was born Princess Charlotte of Prussia (1798-1860).

Wilhelm II's grandfather was King Wilhelm I of Prussia (1797-1888).

Wilhelm I and Charlotte were brother and sister.

Allan Raymond



2. What authority did Max have over Kaiser Wilhelm 11, were their families related by blood line.

Thank you

William Ebert

noble_descendents.bloodline@yahoo.ca


Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on December 03, 2007, 11:56:24 AM
In addition, Max was the heir to the Baden throne that was occupied by Wilhelm's aunt and uncle, Louise & Friedrich of Baden. Their surviving son, Friedirch, didn't have any children so the throne passed to Max. Grand Duchess Louise was the only sister of Wihelm's father, Kaiser Friedrich III and she was very close to Wilhelm & Dona. Max could've become his brother-in-law, had Margaret of Prussia's affections been returned. Instead, he remained one of Margaret and her husband's closest friends.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: allanraymond on December 03, 2007, 04:30:40 PM
My understanding is that Max was was Heir Apparent to the Throne of Baden but he renounced all claims to the Succession for himself and his heirs on 22 November 1918, coincidentally with the Abdication of Grand Duke Friedrich II of Baden. So I suppose rather than the throne passing to Max he simply became head of the Grand Ducal House of Baden.

Allan Raymond

In addition, Max was the heir to the Baden throne that was occupied by Wilhelm's aunt and uncle, Louise & Friedrich of Baden. Their surviving son, Friedirch, didn't have any children so the throne passed to Max.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on December 03, 2007, 05:05:11 PM
Sorry, I should've been more precise. Of course, you're correct, I was thinking of the pre-WW1 time and should've said that the throne was intended to pass to him as the next male rather than it actually did.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Adagietto on April 03, 2008, 02:57:13 PM
Louis Ferdinand, who became head of the family in succession to the Crown Prince after his elder brother married a commoner.

(http://inlinethumb21.webshots.com/18324/2378406340100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

(http://inlinethumb25.webshots.com/42264/2582726020100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

(http://inlinethumb60.webshots.com/41659/2580884510100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)
Marriage to Princess Kira of Russia

(http://inlinethumb21.webshots.com/32916/2852074180100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)
Kira with Kaiserin Hermine; a particularly nice photograph of her I think.

(http://inlinethumb24.webshots.com/16343/2169706600100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: CharlotteSometimes on April 03, 2008, 06:28:43 PM
Kira does indeed look lovely there--I've seen a few candid shots of her on Ebay this week, but they are way too pricey (100.00-250.00) and not near as attractive as the one above.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on April 03, 2008, 09:15:01 PM
(http://inlinethumb24.webshots.com/16343/2169706600100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)

Note the portrait of their common ancestor, Queen Louise of Prussia in the background. She was their common great-great-great-grandmother.

Louise--Wilhelm I--Frederick III--Wilhelm II--Wilhelm--Louis Ferdinand
Louise--Charlotte (Empress Alexandra)--Alexander II--Vladimir--Kyril--Kyra
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: ArchDss Louise-Henriette on May 19, 2008, 12:39:35 PM
Louis-Ferdinand c.1930
(http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/2549/louisferdinandc1930ae5.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Lucien on May 31, 2008, 01:27:28 AM
HRH Prince Georg Friedrich was in The Netherlands this week,opening the exhibition "The Emperor and Europe" at Huis Doorn.
HRH Prince Christiann Sigusmund,his uncle,was in attendance at Doorn.

http://www.ppe-agency.com/show.php?zoektype=2&search=29-05-2008%20Doorn

Courtesy PPE/Nieboer.

Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Lucien on May 31, 2008, 01:28:15 AM
HRH Prince Georg Friedrich was in The Netherlands this week,opening the exhibition "The Emperor and Europe" at Huis Doorn.
HRH Prince Christiann Sigusmund,his uncle,was in attendance at Doorn.

http://www.ppe-agency.com/show.php?zoektype=2&search=29-05-2008%20Doorn

Courtesy PPE/Nieboer.



Tryed to add the link to the exhibit,but that won't work,for one reason or another,sorry.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Lucien on June 01, 2008, 04:46:32 AM
http://www.ppe-agency.com/preview.php?start=0&id=22605&zoektype=29-05-2008%20Doorn

http://www.huisdoorn.nl/huisdoorn.html



Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: HerrKaiser on June 01, 2008, 11:17:49 PM
thanks Lucien! Georg is looking quite good in the photos. Did he comment on WII during the ceremonies?
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Lucien on June 02, 2008, 04:19:01 PM
thanks Lucien! Georg is looking quite good in the photos. Did he comment on WII during the ceremonies?

WW II?No,not a word,WW I yes.After the Kaiser abdicated he was invited to come to Great Britain,by Churchill."Telling"; said George.

And on how strict the Kaiser's daily routine had been,that he was a regular at Huis Doorn and that both his grandfathers had told so much
more on the Emperor then is generally known by the public.No specifics tho,but;"I've come to see him more as a human being instead of
the Emperor only".

But what struck me most,maybe,is how Prince George cared for his uncle,Prince Christian Sigismund,and guided him,arm in arm,
through the event.His uncle is nearly blind,very moving these two.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: HerrKaiser on June 03, 2008, 10:37:35 AM
thanks Lucien! Georg is looking quite good in the photos. Did he comment on WII during the ceremonies?

WW II?No,not a word,WW I yes.After the Kaiser abdicated he was invited to come to Great Britain,by Churchill."Telling"; said George.

And on how strict the Kaiser's daily routine had been,that he was a regular at Huis Doorn and that both his grandfathers had told so much
more on the Emperor then is generally known by the public.No specifics tho,but;"I've come to see him more as a human being instead of
the Emperor only".

But what struck me most,maybe,is how Prince George cared for his uncle,Prince Christian Sigismund,and guided him,arm in arm,
through the event.His uncle is nearly blind,very moving these two.

thanks Lucien. I actually meant Wilhelm II, not World War II. I was wondering if Georg put forth any new ideas, commentaries, or facts about Wilhelm II. thanks again.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Lucien on June 03, 2008, 01:46:35 PM
thanks Lucien! Georg is looking quite good in the photos. Did he comment on WII during the ceremonies?

WW II?No,not a word,WW I yes.After the Kaiser abdicated he was invited to come to Great Britain,by Churchill."Telling"; said George.

And on how strict the Kaiser's daily routine had been,that he was a regular at Huis Doorn and that both his grandfathers had told so much
more on the Emperor then is generally known by the public.No specifics tho,but;"I've come to see him more as a human being instead of
the Emperor only".

But what struck me most,maybe,is how Prince George cared for his uncle,Prince Christian Sigismund,and guided him,arm in arm,
through the event.His uncle is nearly blind,very moving these two.

thanks Lucien. I actually meant Wilhelm II, not World War II. I was wondering if Georg put forth any new ideas, commentaries, or facts about Wilhelm II. thanks again.


Grin.......

No,no specifics,just how human he actually was,to him.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: tecklenburg on June 03, 2008, 04:32:30 PM
Hi

Who are the godparents of HRH the Prince ?
Has he got some prestigious ones like his grandfather gave to his elder son
I read on the royal forums that Prince Friedrich-Wilhelm has King Frederik IX of Denmark, Queen Juliana of the Netherlands and Princess Sibylla of Sweden as godparents. Is it true?
What about his brothers & sisters?
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Lucien on June 04, 2008, 12:39:37 PM
Hi

Who are the godparents of HRH the Prince ?
Has he got some prestigious ones like his grandfather gave to his elder son
I read on the royal forums that Prince Friedrich-Wilhelm has King Frederik IX of Denmark, Queen Juliana of the Netherlands and Princess Sibylla of Sweden as godparents. Is it true?
What about his brothers & sisters?

True,but Frederik and Juliana were still Prince/Princess.They remained dear friends with Louis-Ferdinand and Kyra throughout their lives.
Friedrich-Wilhelm has his own thread.

Georg Friedrich does have one sister,HRH Princess Cornelie-Cécile,he was just little over one year old when his father got killed on manouvres while
in the german army in 1977.

http://www.preussen.de/de/familie/familienalbum/lebensbilder_eines_potsdamers_-_prinz_louis_ferdinand_von_preussen/_die_zwei_lulus_._1946.html
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: tecklenburg on June 05, 2008, 04:08:16 AM
thanks lucien !

what nice pictures on this website :)

Prince Louis Ferdinand acted like a real king

Happily some royals like the king of sweden and queen of the netherlands haven't snobbed his family.
What about today?
Was Prince Georg Friedrich a guest at some royal events abroad like weddings, christenings?
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Lucien on June 05, 2008, 03:10:31 PM
thanks lucien !

what nice pictures on this website :)

Prince Louis Ferdinand acted like a real king

Happily some royals like the king of sweden and queen of the netherlands haven't snobbed his family.
What about today?
Was Prince Georg Friedrich a guest at some royal events abroad like weddings, christenings?

Oh yes,sure he is.He was a guest at Alexanders wedding and last years 40th birthday bash with tout Royal Europe here in The Netherlands,
but he's a regular at the other Courts as well,he's just a very sympathetic person really.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: tecklenburg on June 06, 2008, 01:25:48 AM
That's nice

I hope that when the Prince will get married, There will be lots of kings & queens.
What a event it will be ! I imagine someting very "great"  It even may be on TV in germany.
I wish that he'll take advantage of this event to get more known and to show that he's a democrat. I hope I make no mistake about it. He would be a democratic sovereign, wouldn't he?
what are the ideas of HRH about politics ?

Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on September 13, 2008, 02:35:12 PM
(http://www.cadinen.de/bilder/B1H3_S93.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: tecklenburg on January 08, 2009, 02:26:40 PM
hello good evening :) I wish everybody an happy new year !

I would like to have some informations about the Prinzen von Preussen's children & grandchildren, their jobs, careers etc...
I already know that Georg Friedrich followed his grandfather as head of the royal house and takes care of Burg Hohenzollern
I know that Philipp (Friedrich Wilhelm's elder son) is a protestant pastor
but I don't know what Friedrich Wilhelm Jr, Viktoria Luise & Joachim activities...
Did Friedrich Wilhelm served in german army like Louis Ferdinand Jr & Christian Sigismund ? What about Michael & his daughters? Marie Cecile, Kira & Xenia
thanks for helping me :)
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: TampaBay on March 20, 2009, 12:58:53 PM
Is George Frederick dating or engaged he seems to keep a low profile.

TamapBat
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Lucien on March 20, 2009, 01:19:12 PM
He is dating yes,but very keen on keeping a low profile too so he's not to be tracked/trapped down by any sort of press.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: tecklenburg on September 11, 2009, 11:21:16 AM
Hello
I'd like to have some details about Georg Friedrich 's family : uncles, aunts, cousins...

Friedrich Wilhelm ----> Philipp, Friedrich Wilhelm jr, Viktoria Luise, Joachim
Michael -----> Michaela, Nathalie...
Marie Cecile
Kira
Christian Sigismund ---> Christian Ludwig, Irene
Xenia

and everyone I forgot if you want to add them :)

about their godparents, studies, careers, military services...places of residences...and every other interesting detail you would like to add
have they good contacts with other royals? With whom in particulary ?

I read with pleasure that Prinz Philipp is a pastor
Is Prinz Michael King of Rumania's godson for real ?
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Lucien on June 10, 2010, 03:29:26 AM
HI&RH Prince Georg Friedrich celebrates his 34th birthday today.Prost!! :)
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Glastonbury on June 23, 2010, 07:54:59 AM
Prince Louis Ferdinand was a truly great man and it's not surprising that his grandson is similarly a pleasant gentleman. Had the German Resistance been successful in ousting Hitler during the war Prince Louis Ferdinand was to have become a constitutional monarch and head of state. He was interviewed by the Gestapo after the 20 July plot and managed to convince them of his innocence although he had had meetings with and had hosted meetings of members of the resistance from 1938 if not before. He and Kira spent part of their honeymoon with the Roosevelts.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: HerrKaiser on June 23, 2010, 10:50:15 AM
Yes, Louis Ferdinand was a great man. He was perhaps more globally experienced than most other men of his generation as he moved about the highest levels of corporate America and of Europe in addition to his non corporate involvements.

He was a special guest at the ceremonies opening the restored Berlin Cathedral in 1993, having been invited by Chancellor Helmut Kohl. I had the honor of seeing Louis Ferdinand from across the Lustgarten and he looked excellent, regal, and appropriately proud.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: HerrKaiser on June 25, 2010, 02:09:22 PM
Prince Louis Ferdinand was a truly great man and it's not surprising that his grandson is similarly a pleasant gentleman. Had the German Resistance been successful in ousting Hitler during the war Prince Louis Ferdinand was to have become a constitutional monarch and head of state.

This scenario is felt by many, including me, to have been a very unlikely outcome if the attempted July 1944 coup had been successful in killing Hitler. First, there really wasn't a firm plan in place. Second, the Allies were in no mindset to be generous. They were ready to squash Germany and 'take no prisoners'. Plus, in spite of the fact that the death camps had at that time been largely undiscovered, they would have been exposed, only increasing the lack of desire to afford a "new" regime any gratuitous leaway.

We also have to remember Churchill was very much getting his way and he loathed Germany; he never would have entertained the idea of anything other than full occupation and a complete takeover of the government. The coup leaders, including Rommel, who envisioned a way out of the mess were really living in a dream world.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Adagietto on June 25, 2010, 04:03:37 PM
Can one imagine anything more futile than attempting to be 'generous' to any regime that might have been in power in Germany at that time? The plotters in the military were more or less reactionary nationalists for the most part (quite a few even wanted to involve Himmler). What was needed was a completely new start, which - Heavens be praised - is what came about.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on June 27, 2010, 10:15:59 AM
I like this image!

(http://i50.tinypic.com/2cxx9ty.jpg)


If someone knows the background of it,. it would be great!
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Robert_Hall on June 27, 2010, 11:37:35 AM
KY- this is just a guess on my part, but it looks like the time he was working at the Ford plant in Detroit.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on June 29, 2010, 11:19:07 AM
LF getting his nose tweaked by his grandfather at Wilhelm's birthday celebrations (that's Irene next to them)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/grandduchessella/prussia/66330f23-1.gif)
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on June 29, 2010, 11:21:48 AM
How sweet!!

Thanks Robert!, i had no idea he worked in a Ford Plant!
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on July 06, 2010, 02:21:53 PM
Bride Kyra next to her father in law, Wilhelm

(http://i47.tinypic.com/jrxi5z.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Russka Princess on July 07, 2010, 11:44:01 AM
LF getting his nose tweaked by his grandfather at Wilhelm's birthday celebrations (that's Irene next to them)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/grandduchessella/prussia/66330f23-1.gif)

Irene of Prussia ?? she look lovly!! its the first Picture where she smile(laugh) she look so friendly..which year was it ??
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on July 07, 2010, 11:47:32 AM
here s the full of that image. Its really funny Wilhelm`s face!!

(http://i26.tinypic.com/14ilfm0.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on July 07, 2010, 12:19:08 PM
There's an even fuller one but I was trying to focus in this case on Louis Ferdinand and his grandfather.

Russka Princess--I believe the occasion was Wilhelm's 80th birthday so 1939 I think.

In the fuller shot you can see Wilhelm's wife Hermine next to him, with Mossy behind her. The young man next to LF was his cousin Oscar Jr who would be killed in action in Sept 1939 in Poland.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: HerrKaiser on July 07, 2010, 03:24:46 PM
I"m not sure that is a smile Irene is expressing or some sort of a pained look of 'get me out of here'.

The nose-pinch is typical of WII's nature--playful and enjoying a good, funny time.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Adagietto on July 07, 2010, 03:40:47 PM
Did WII become more inclined to pinch noses as he got older?
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: HerrKaiser on July 07, 2010, 05:30:11 PM
He pinched everyone's nose. Recall his pinching the noses of Queen Mary and King George when they changed their names.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Olgasha on August 11, 2010, 02:47:44 PM
Loius Ferdinand with his wife and children in 1946
(http://www.preussen.de/Bilder/Familie/Familienalbum/INTERNET_-_Familiengruppe_1946.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on August 18, 2010, 03:31:10 PM
Louis Ferdinand and the comtesse d`Paris

(http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/6422/73214202.jpg) (http://img832.imageshack.us/i/73214202.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: HerrKaiser on August 18, 2010, 04:50:51 PM
Louis Ferdinand always had a stately look and appearance...even as a factory worker.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on August 24, 2010, 09:05:28 AM
I was noticing how much similar was Louis Ferdinand with his cousin Frederick of Denmark

(http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/2118/louisferdinandc1930.jpg) (http://img837.imageshack.us/i/louisferdinandc1930.jpg/)

(http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/2976/399072350o.jpg) (http://img801.imageshack.us/i/399072350o.jpg/)


Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Rani on October 20, 2010, 02:16:59 PM
Princes Jutta (*1943), she was married with Michael (divorce 1982), the son of Ludwig Ferdinand Prinz von Preußen and Kira Kirillovna Romanov, Grand Duchess of Russia.
They have two children:

    * Michaela Marie Prinzessin von Preußen+ b. 5 Mar 1967
    * Nataly Alexandra Caroline Prinzessin von Preußen b. 13 Jan 1970

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/DonaIsabella/PrincessJutta-1.jpg)


A beauty
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Rani on October 20, 2010, 07:09:40 PM
Found a wedding photo

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/DonaIsabella/Jutta.jpg)

Jutta and Michael
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on October 21, 2010, 05:42:39 AM
He s identical to his father, Awesome!. Thanks for sharing that lovely image!
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Rani on October 21, 2010, 07:08:15 AM
No problem!

On the magazine stands: "The story of my love"
1982 was the divorce  ;D
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: LisaG on January 18, 2011, 03:05:25 PM
Louis Ferdinand's grandson Price Richard Louis of Prussia died young, apparently leaving a son born posthumously.  What happened?  Accident?  Illness?
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: HerrKaiser on January 18, 2011, 03:55:26 PM
Prince Richard isn't even shown in some geneological records as being an offspring of Prince Friedrich Wilhelm (son of LF). Richard's son, referred on Wikipedia as Prince of Prussia, has the last name Deases.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Rani on March 05, 2011, 02:17:37 PM
(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/DonaIsabella/Unbenannt-3.jpg)

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/DonaIsabella/12-2.jpg)

Which of Louis daughters is this?

Thanks
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Svetabel on March 14, 2011, 07:21:38 AM

Which of Louis daughters is this?

Thanks

Marie Cecilie.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Kalafrana on March 14, 2011, 10:14:36 AM
Who is the young man with her?

Ann
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Naslednik Norvezhskiy on March 14, 2011, 10:29:37 AM
Who is the young man with her?

Presumably the man she married in the Bunte above, Duke Friedrich August of Oldenburg.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Rani on March 17, 2011, 04:41:01 PM
Thanks Svetabel!

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/DonaIsabella/Louis_Ferdinand_1252805_Bild01_17x23.jpg)

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/DonaIsabella/Louis_Ferdinand_1252806_Bild03_8x13.jpg)

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/DonaIsabella/Louis_Ferdinand_1252805_Bild02_17x23.jpg)

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/DonaIsabella/Louis_Ferdinand_1252806_Bild05_8x13.jpg)

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/DonaIsabella/Louis_Ferdinand_1252806_Bild01_8x13.jpg)

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/DonaIsabella/Louis_Ferdinand_1252806_Bild04_13x8.jpg)

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/DonaIsabella/Louis_Ferdinand_1252806_Bild06_13x8.jpg)

(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/DonaIsabella/Wilhelm_II_1252801_Bild04_12x18.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Rani on March 20, 2011, 07:58:38 AM
(http://i56.tinypic.com/2s6vew6.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Marie Valerie on July 10, 2012, 10:27:30 AM
Does anyone know if Grand Duchess Kira was allowed to stay orthodox after her wedding to Louis Ferdinand?

Elisabeth of Bavaria was a katholic and must agree to change her religion before her wedding to king Friedrich Wilhelm IV. of Prussia (she did this after 7 years of marriage, when she felt it was right for her).
King Friedrich Wilhelm III. thought a queen of prussia must be from the same religion like the majority of her subjects, was this still in use when LF and Kira married?
Or was it abolished after the lose of crown and power?
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: José on October 11, 2012, 10:15:16 AM
here s the full of that image. Its really funny Wilhelm`s face!!

(http://i26.tinypic.com/14ilfm0.jpg)


On the last row, one can spot Mossy.

The young men next to L_F could be Oscar Jr or his brother Burchard and Wilhelm Karl

Someone said there was a greater version of the photo.

It would be great to see it posted and id. the people there.

José
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Marie Valerie on January 14, 2013, 09:25:52 AM
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTAyNlg1MjM=/$T2eC16ZHJHIE9nysey1mBQ8odvSoLg~~60_12.JPG)

Prinzessin Kira von Preußen
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Marie Valerie on January 14, 2013, 09:53:54 AM
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4013/4514152102_a6556d8971.jpg)

From Life: Prinzessin Kira und Herzogin Viktoria Luise
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Marie Valerie on January 15, 2013, 09:37:06 AM
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2264/4514152042_1d0d76955c_z.jpg)

Again from Life: Louis Ferdinand & Kira with their 7 children and his aunt Viktoria Luise
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: KarlandZita on January 19, 2013, 08:41:43 AM
Kyra as a young woman :

(http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/384619201202041926351.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=384619201202041926351.jpg)

(http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/452490201202041926353.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=452490201202041926353.jpg)

(http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/384923201202041926356.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=384923201202041926356.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 19, 2013, 10:36:57 AM
Nice images. Are they from a film ?
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: HerrKaiser on March 16, 2013, 11:35:58 AM
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2264/4514152042_1d0d76955c_z.jpg)

Again from Life: Louis Ferdinand & Kira with their 7 children and his aunt Viktoria Luise

Is the man in the back with glasses the heir, Louis Ferdinand, who is father of Georg Friedrich?
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on March 16, 2013, 02:37:53 PM
It doesnt look like him

(http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/1769/kamihohenzollern1447151.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: José on March 16, 2013, 05:49:38 PM
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2264/4514152042_1d0d76955c_z.jpg)

Again from Life: Louis Ferdinand & Kira with their 7 children and his aunt Viktoria Luise

Is the man in the back with glasses the heir, Louis Ferdinand, who is father of Georg Friedrich?

No, Louis Ferdinand is the man on the right.

Man with glasses looks like Christian-Sigimond
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: HerrKaiser on March 16, 2013, 07:44:33 PM
One of the nicest looking royal families, especially given the large number of children. No mirror-breakers in this group.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on March 16, 2013, 08:15:34 PM
My favorite of the girls is Kira. I think she had a very exotic look

(http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/5976/september0040.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on March 16, 2013, 08:38:03 PM
Boy does she look like her Dad. I think you can see more of LF's features in the children--some are dead ringers--than Kyra's.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 17, 2013, 01:25:09 AM
I think Kira is a mix of her parents in looks.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: HerrKaiser on March 18, 2013, 07:15:35 PM
My favorite of the girls is Kira. I think she had a very exotic look

(http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/5976/september0040.jpg)

Wow. Anyoine who has photoshop and can put Kira's hair on LF, we'll have a match. Nice to see parental traits carry on.

Sad that this family lost its internal bond. Maybe now that the young twins are here, the quarrels will get smoothed over and things patched up.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 19, 2013, 08:28:32 AM
What happened to that family ?  :o
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on March 19, 2013, 10:08:56 AM
Didn't it have to do with resentments over loss of succession rights due to unequal marriages? Louis Ferdinand's eldest 2 sons married unequally and had to forfeit their rights, and the financial rewards that went along with it. So even though George Friedrich has 3 male cousins in the elder line, they aren't the head of the family.

There was also this case which could make for uncomfortable family relations, though I have no idea if it did or if everything was amicable. LF's daughter Marie-Cécile married Friedrich August of Oldenburg and they had 3 children before they divorced in 1989. In 1991 her ex-husband remarried Countess Donata of Castell-Rüdenhausen, the widow of Marie-Cécile's late brother, Prince Louis Ferdinand (Jr) and mother of George Friedrich and Cornelie-Cécile (who was born with development problems due to her mother contracting  toxoplasmosis during pregnancy.) Louis Ferdinand Jr had died while his children were very young due to being in a severe accident during military maneuvers when he was pinned between two vehicles. Although his leg was amputated, he died several weeks later due to the trauma.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 19, 2013, 10:56:32 AM
Thanks for the info.

Are the siblings talking to each other ? I don't know why it is so difficult to marry within one's class. There are many aristocrats (in Germany, Austria and even Spain and Scandinavia) and royalist a Hohenzollern can marry.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on March 19, 2013, 11:08:22 AM
The will (of Louis Ferdinand Sr?) was even contested in court. After much expense, GF won and he was recognized as head of the house and the will was upheld. I believe the requirement for equal marriage (which GF is a product of) was only for 3 generations - which means it expired with his parents. He was probably then under no obligation to marry equally so, even though his marriage is, he could marry solely for love. Though, given the court drama, requirement or not, I could see him being crucified by his uncles if he hadn't married equally. Though Marlene noted that it wasn't generational but rather the next 2 heirs so GF would've been bound since his father predeceased his grandfather. Either way, it seems that GF is genuinely in a love match.

Marlene once wrote: "The appanage was limited to Louis Ferdinand's surviving children, but when Friedrich Wilhelm and Michael sued, they apparently lost their allowance (although, under German law, they received something from their father's estate.) Louis Ferdinand's surviving sons have done nothing to find work on their own - and establish their own income. They were enabled by dad, but the party was over when Georg Friedrich inherited."

and further "All of Louis Ferdinand's surviving children received a percentage of the estate as required by German law. From what I understand Christian Sigismund was one of the executors of Louis Ferdinand's estate - but Louis Ferdinand was a smart man -and also included at least one of Donata's brothers as an executor as well. Louis Ferdinand had provided homes for his kids - none of who worked a day in their lives, and was providing appanages to his adult children as well. Georg stopped paying the appanages to Friedrich Wilhelm and Michael after they started all the problems .. and Friedrich Wilhelm told his father that he was going to challenge the will, even though he and his brother had lost their rights in the mid-1960s after their first marriages to commoners. George continued to pay the appanages to his surviving aunts and Onkel Christian Sigismund who was "head" of the family until GF reached the age of 30, and it was at this time that GF gained his full inheritance, or what was left of it. "

I think they should marry people of excellent character regardless of their antecedents--witness the late, lovely Princess Lillian of Sweden and the many tacky, entitled, spoiled royals/nobles out there for example. However, if you know the rules ahead of time, don't get bent out of shape when you marry (and remarry) outside the class and pay the consequences.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 19, 2013, 11:30:10 AM
Indeed.

Or they can take a leaf out of the Glucksborg Family to marry money (security). From Mrs. Billy Leeds, Princess Marie Bonaparte, Eleanor Green to Marie Chantal Miller.

What about the daughters of LF & Kyra, did they got along among themselves and their brothers ?
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on March 19, 2013, 11:39:02 AM
More from Marlene:

"Wilhelm II's will was written after he had left the throne. The idea was to protect the fortune from the tax man. Many former ruling families, including Leiningen and Hohenzollern (princely) set up family trusts in the 1920s. There are similar examples with Sayn-Wittgenstein and Hannover (Ernst August's son is now running the estates). Wilhelm's will was very specific - the heir and the next heir had to marry equally. The Crown Prince was excluded as he would be largely bypassed for the main inheritance - and before 1945, the family owned a lot of property in the east - and his eldest son Wilhelm's marriage was unequal. Thus the heir to the estate was the second of the Crown Prince's son -Louis Ferdinand. He married equally. The next heir (nach erbe) also had to marry equally in order to inherit. The nach erbe was the young Louis Ferdinand, but he died before his father, so GF became the nach erbe.
All the Kaiser's descendants were parties to the case although the case only affected Louis Ferdinand's children and grandson, who was the primary heir. In the 1960s, the two eldest sons, Friedrich Wilhelm and Michael married commoners and ceased to be dynasts. These marriages ended in divorce and both remarried. Their second marriages were irrelevant because both had already lost their positions. They knew this -- but neither of these men ever worked, ever had a career. Louis Ferdinand provided his sons and daughters with homes and with allowances. When Louis Ferdinand died in 1991, GF became the head of the house. He was a minor at the time. He would not come into his full inheritance until age 30. One of his Castell Rudenhausen uncles and Prince Christian Sigismund were the adminstrators although LF was very smart, and the C-R uncle was the real "Guardian" and Christian Sigismund was the admin on paper. His marriage was equal.
Each of LF's surviving children received a percentage of the estate. None were excluded under German law, but GF was the primary heir. Friedrich Wilhelm and Michael wanted more, and tried to claim that their second marriages were equal. For nearly 30 years they knew they had no claim - but they thought they could do something to get more money. It took several court rulings, but the final decision was in GF's favor. But the court cases cost a lot of money. Unlike other former ruling families, the Prussians don't have any of their palaces in Berlin and Potsdam. Georg Friedrich does not have a family seat. He has had to put up for sale the properties that Louis Ferdinand bought for his kids, where the lived largely rent free. Georg Friedrich cannot afford to maintain such appanages. He was raised by his mother, away from the other Prussians. He's well off, and, in time, one hopes that the estate will again grow.

There are no house laws on marriage. Wilhelm II was a private German citizen when he made his will. No child can be excluded but a person who makes a will, according to final ruling, can put in qualifications. This as the same for the Leiningens and, of course, the late Prince of Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berlenburg. Prince Gustav cannot marry Carina Axelsson because of his grandfather's will. If he marries her, he loses every thing. "

And it's rather ironic that the brides from the nobility are now considered equal when they caused heart palpitations and disinheritances back when the families were actually on thrones--even later as well. Many of the morganatic families (Battenberg, Tecks, etc) who were so sneered at--especially by the Prussians--were from noble families. It's not like they were shopkeepers!
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on March 19, 2013, 11:56:08 AM
George Friedrich with his parents--Louis Ferdinand Jr definitely looking like his dad!

(http://www.welt.de/img/prominente/crop102078557/8550714558-ci3x2l-w580-aoriginal-h386-l0/kami-hohenzollern-babybild-neu-DW-Vermischtes-Bremen.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 19, 2013, 12:17:08 PM
I agree. Times has changed from the junky unwed mother crown princess of Norway to the coal miner's granddaughter in Kate Middleton. We come a long way baby.

It is sad to see a family quarrel over money. Did the daughters got a nice dowry too ?
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Kalafrana on March 19, 2013, 12:30:22 PM
'And it's rather ironic that the brides from the nobility are now considered equal when they caused heart palpitations and disinheritances back when the families were actually on thrones--even later as well. Many of the morganatic families (Battenberg, Tecks, etc) who were so sneered at--especially by the Prussians--were from noble families. It's not like they were shopkeepers!'

Sophie Chotek was, after all, an entirely respectable countess from an old family.

Ann
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 19, 2013, 12:46:22 PM
I agree...So I do not understand families instance on equal marriages. The Russian case springs into mind.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on March 19, 2013, 12:50:13 PM
From Marlene's blog:

"The FAS profile describes Georg Friedrich as "polite, reserved, sometimes a bit shy," but there are people who know him "describe him as otherwise."   Critical reports in newspapers have been met with legal action.   Der Taggespiegel's written request for information about the wedding was denied.  Interview requests with the young couple have also been denied due to a risk of being asked critical questions. Many of these concerns fall back to the family quarrels regarding the inheritance.  ... he succeeded as head of the house in 1994.

But trouble was brewing, as the two eldest uncles fought Georg Friedrich's inheritance, which was based on the late Kaiser Wilhelm II's will....Louis Ferdinand was able to rebuild the family's finances.  All of his children received allowances and homes, but the allowances largely came to an end after his death.  All of his surviving children received a percentage of his estate, as required by German law, but the bulk of the fortune was inherited by Prince Georg Friedrich.  The lawsuits soon followed. ..There were various twists and turns to the case, but eventually, the high courts ruled in Georg Friedrich's favor.  

But the damage was done.   Lots of money went to legal fees, and Prince Georg Friedrich began selling the homes that his uncles had lived in for many years -- for which they lived largely rent free.   Der Taggespiegel reports that Georg Friedrich's three uncles, Princes Friedrich Wilhelm, Prince Michael and Prince Christian-Sigismund have not been invited to the wedding.   [It should be noted that Prince Christian Sigismund's marriage was approved by Prince Louis Ferdinand.]"

The complete blog here:
http://royalmusingsblogspotcom.blogspot.com/2011/08/controversy-mars-upcoming-royal-wedding.html

The Oldenburg children did not attend the wedding of their cousin/stepbrother, Prince Georg Friedrich of Prussia.  Georg Friedrich's uncles, Friedrich Wilhelm, Michael and Christian Sigismund, and aunt Marie Cecile also did not attend that wedding.  His aunts Xenia and Kira are deceased. So that means of all the children of Louis Ferdinand & Kyra who are still living, none attended his wedding. If his Oldenburg cousins, who are the closest in relation due to the double relationship, didn't attend, and his uncle's children didn't attend, perhaps none of his cousins attended either? I only saw a few 'of Prussias' on the one guest list I saw.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on March 19, 2013, 12:51:41 PM
I agree...So I do not understand families instance on equal marriages. The Russian case springs into mind.

Perhaps for the same reason they cling to Imperial titles when there hasn't been a German, Austrian or Russian Empire in almost 100 years and it's highly unlikely there ever will be again. In this case, though, it was set down decades ago by the late Wilhem II. I doubt George Friedrich will insist on such clauses in the future but you never know.

Since the will was contested for so long, does that mean it was first contested while Louis Ferdinand was still alive since he died less than 20 years ago?  Marlene had mentioned that one of the sons told LF that he would challenge it but were the lawsuits instituted prior to his death? If so--a little disrespectful to say the least. The sons knew the rules beforehand and their father had well-compensated them. I wonder, since GF inherited the bulk and he had money issues as a result of the trials, how if affected the uncles financially? They would've had less going in so it was pretty foolish to use what you did have (which wasn't too shabby) just trying to get more and failing.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on March 19, 2013, 12:55:38 PM
'And it's rather ironic that the brides from the nobility are now considered equal when they caused heart palpitations and disinheritances back when the families were actually on thrones--even later as well. Many of the morganatic families (Battenberg, Tecks, etc) who were so sneered at--especially by the Prussians--were from noble families. It's not like they were shopkeepers!'

Sophie Chotek was, after all, an entirely respectable countess from an old family.

Ann

As was Julia Hauke (Battenbergs), Countess Claudine Rhédey von Kis-Rhéde (Tecks), Laura Williamina Seymour (Gleichens) and many others--including the British nobility who were fine by Queen Victoria (and her descendants) but would've never been marriageable by continental European standards (Dukes of Fife & Argyll, Earl of Harewood, etc). The future Wilhelm I was forced to give up his true love, Elise Radziwill, because her lineage wasn't good enough--even though she was related to the Prussian royal family already.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 19, 2013, 01:05:42 PM
I think the reigning families are much more lenient than those of disposed ones. The current grand duchess of Luxembourg is not even aristocrat from Cuba.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on March 19, 2013, 02:09:40 PM

It is sad to see a family quarrel over money. Did the daughters got a nice dowry too ?

As to the females in the family, in my quoted posts, Marlene says [from my earlier quoted post]

"All of Louis Ferdinand's surviving children received a percentage of the estate as required by German law...Louis Ferdinand had provided homes for his kids - none of who worked a day in their lives, and was providing appanages to his adult children as well. Georg stopped paying the appanages to Friedrich Wilhelm and Michael after they started all the problems .. and Friedrich Wilhelm told his father that he was going to challenge the will, even though he and his brother had lost their rights in the mid-1960s after their first marriages to commoners. George continued to pay the appanages to his surviving aunts and Onkel Christian Sigismund who was "head" of the family until GF reached the age of 30, and it was at this time that GF gained his full inheritance, or what was left of it. "

So they all received something from their father--as for dowries, I don't know. Do they still do marriage settlements? Perhaps the homes formed part of that since they were given those before their father's death.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: HerrKaiser on March 19, 2013, 02:56:13 PM
I agree...So I do not understand families instance on equal marriages. The Russian case springs into mind.

Perhaps for the same reason they cling to Imperial titles when there hasn't been a German, Austrian or Russian Empire in almost 100 years and it's highly unlikely there ever will be again. In this case, though, it was set down decades ago by the late Wilhem II. I doubt George Friedrich will insist on such clauses in the future but you never know.

Since the will was contested for so long, does that mean it was first contested while Louis Ferdinand was still alive since he died less than 20 years ago?  Marlene had mentioned that one of the sons told LF that he would challenge it but were the lawsuits instituted prior to his death? If so--a little disrespectful to say the least. The sons knew the rules beforehand and their father had well-compensated them. I wonder, since GF inherited the bulk and he had money issues as a result of the trials, how if affected the uncles financially? They would've had less going in so it was pretty foolish to use what you did have (which wasn't too shabby) just trying to get more and failing.

I have not rechecked the information I have on this, but my recollection is that the lawsuits were filed after LF senior passed in 1994. I remember thinking that the money-grab was particularly tacky due to being raised legally after LF died when he obviously could not mediate.

Two morals to this sad story--it pays to think long and hard about deals you make that are final and stamped in concrete, especially under the trance of "love". Secondly, no good ever comes from family money quarrels that end up in litigation.

I feel particularly sorry for Georg Friedrich because it seems he was raised to be a self-supporting man who is also trying to do the right thing for his family's heritage and long term stability. His father and grandfather would be impressed with the life he has created and continues to pursue.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 19, 2013, 07:47:07 PM
i read somewhere that rumored that Louis Ferdinand may be gay. Not sure about that...
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: HerrKaiser on March 19, 2013, 08:57:03 PM
i read somewhere that rumored that Louis Ferdinand may be gay. Not sure about that...


since about the mid 1970s, nearly every nice looking celebrity or public figure was rumored 'somewhere' by 'someone' to possibly be gay. Tons of suppositions. Whatever the reasons for such rumors--insecurity, wishful thinking, etc--rumors are rumors. LF had a large family, successful career in the spotlight, and no intimacies with men validated by any source.

Even if one were to hypothecize based on behaviors or appearances, LF's persuasions would be less questionable than those of his father and grandfather, imho.  ;)

Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 19, 2013, 10:01:06 PM
True although one must also remember his cousin Grand Duke Konstantine also have had many children but still got to do double duty. Not to mention Ernie of Hesse.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: HerrKaiser on March 20, 2013, 12:40:23 AM
True although one must also remember his cousin Grand Duke Konstantine also have had many children but still got to do double duty. Not to mention Ernie of Hesse.

yes, but both with signficant evidence. Not so with LF.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Kalafrana on March 20, 2013, 04:17:47 AM
Herr Kaiser

I agree about Georg Friedrich. He lost his father very young, and almost as soon as he reached adulthood he was faced with a long and bitter lawsuit brought by his uncles. I hope he and his wife are now enjoying a settled married life with their twin boys.

Ann
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 20, 2013, 11:00:34 AM
He is a very charming man with a nice smile. He spoke on camera too about his ancestor heritage. Seems like a genuine person. :-)
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: KarlandZita on August 17, 2013, 07:26:38 AM
Engagement of Kyra and Louis Ferdinand :

(http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/833996engagementkiralf1938.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=833996engagementkiralf1938.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: bongo on February 24, 2014, 03:21:59 AM
When I was a university student I used to work part time in a shop. The little old lady who worked in the antique shop next door used to come in all the time for a chat and a smoke. It turned out that she'd once lived the dream that Sally Bowles in Cabaret wanted: Max Reinhardt had taken her from London and put her on the pre-WW2 Berlin stage in the musical comedy smash hit Mister Cinders.

She spent ages waxing lyrical about Weimar Berlin "Oh darling, the most decadent city in Europe!": how they would have to extend intermission while the chorus girls earned extra from customers in the gardens, going to the famous Eldorado nightclub to view the latest Paris fashions on the trannies who leaned on the glass staircase, and not least, "the wonderful parties at the apartment of the Crown Prince's boyfriend".

Has anyone any more information on this fellow? He must have been quite well known as she said that everyone who was anyone came "He always gave the best parties".

(Oh, and if anyone can find a cast list of the Berlin production of Mister Cinders, I'd love to know the full name of the little old lady. I never did ask her!)
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Kalafrana on February 24, 2014, 04:15:28 AM
Could the lady have mixed up the Crown Prince with his brother Eitel Friedrich?

Ann
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Превед on February 24, 2014, 04:57:37 AM
It seems that the Crown Prince's playboy style and the accompanying rumours confused many people. I too always assumed he was gay, but can't seem to find any direct mention of this by any biographical sources.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: HerrKaiser on February 24, 2014, 09:18:27 AM
It seems that the Crown Prince's playboy style and the accompanying rumours confused many people. I too always assumed he was gay, but can't seem to find any direct mention of this by any biographical sources.

Correct, no mention about this in his biographies that I've seen either, but he was a 'player', as they say. Ann may be correct as well that this mystery woman may have confused "prince" with "crown prince", after all it was very much post-royalty, and if the lady led the life suggested by Bongo, who knows what she may have gotten confused?

That said, some of the photos posted of CP Wilhelm on threads here make him look as gay as pink ink. But, we can't judge a book by its cover.

Also, I'm surprised that the term of endearment "tranny" was used by the lady in that it was not quite yet crafted for slang use in Weimar Germany, was it?  The old slangs for transvestites were TVs, dolls, ladyboys, and mollies.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Kalafrana on February 24, 2014, 09:56:21 AM
I haven't researched the subject at all, but everything I've read relating to the Crown Prince suggests that he was quite a womaniser, not the reverse. I did read somewhere that he actually died while in bed with a mistress (presumably from a heart attack).

Ann
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: HerrKaiser on February 24, 2014, 01:05:45 PM
I haven't researched the subject at all, but everything I've read relating to the Crown Prince suggests that he was quite a womaniser, not the reverse. I did read somewhere that he actually died while in bed with a mistress (presumably from a heart attack).

Ann

This is the known record, yes. In fact, his wife Cecilie, was essentially estranged from him for his womanizing although remained married.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: bongo on February 25, 2014, 09:23:38 AM
The tranny abbreviation was me, not her. (She said transvestites. She said the trannies at the Eldorado were very chic and always wore the very latest Paris fashions: one went there to find out what was current). She was a luvvie and a lady, but a bohemian one. But I can't go ask her if she meant Louis or Cecile's husband, as it was the 1970s when I met her, a tiny wizened chain smoker wafting "darlings", so I'm sure she would be long dead. But her description of the Eldorado and the famous staircase was certainly accurate as I later learnt, so I doubt she would have got a startling detail like 'the Crown Prince's boyfriend' wrong. It was a pretty eyebrow raising thing to say even in the 70s - especially coming from a little old lady.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 25, 2014, 09:18:54 PM
There is some talk of Lulu being gay too ? But I think even if that is true, it is more likely bisexual as he had enough sons to prove that he love being with his wife...Just like Grand Duke Konstantin or KP.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Kalafrana on February 26, 2014, 03:09:27 AM
We have been through this before, and not all that long ago.

You need to produce some evidence.

Ann
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Kalafrana on February 26, 2014, 03:15:49 AM
To some, it seems, any man who did not marry, or had a childless marriage, was homosexual, and any who had an apparently happy marriage and a large family must have been bisexual.

In the case of KR, we have the evidence from his diaries, but for the rest you need to produce something more than gossip.

Ann
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Vecchiolarry on February 26, 2014, 08:53:50 AM
Dear Ann,

I agree with you full force...

The gossip granny on this web site, who calls everybody by their nicknames (as if he knows them personally) is rife to name all and sundry as homosexual, bisexual, a trouble maker or a stupid cow;  and doesn't have more evidence than crassness to prove anything.

These people are dead and cannot defend themselves with the truth.  It seems now that the world clamps onto gossip from the media and just plain jealous troublemakers to defame everybody whos gone...
Try to find out what these people did that was beneficial to humanity - and publicize that;  or is that too boring?

Larry
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Kalafrana on February 26, 2014, 10:24:08 AM
Larry

Or just try to find out what they actually did and what they were like - or is that too boring?

Ann
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 27, 2014, 09:42:53 AM
I think the case for Louis Ferdinand was that most people found him "soft" and some of his male cousins found his friendliness gushing. However I do agree the case require more investigation.

Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Kalafrana on February 27, 2014, 12:12:23 PM
I don't know a great deal about LF, but if he was a kind and gentle person that doesn't make him homosexual. Neither does being a bit gushingly friendly - perhaps his male cousins were simply used to people who were a bit more stiff-backed in their manners.

Ann
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Vecchiolarry on February 27, 2014, 01:44:17 PM
Hi,

Some personal information, that is gossipy but true:
The French actress, Lily Damita, whom I knew personally, told a group at a dinner party that Louis Ferdinand had been her lover.  She was once married to Errol Flynn and he too was rumoured to be homosexual and bisexual after his death;  as well as being a Nazi spy.

All of this is titillating but unprovable;  and probably not true - it just sells newspapers and magazines to the bored and boring and ignorant...
Once someone is dead, anything can be gossiped about them - unfortunately....

Now back to Louis Ferdinand, his family and descendants - - what can we say positively about them???

Larry
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 01, 2014, 09:43:19 AM
The romance between Lily Damita was true and he admitted it in his own biography "the Rebel Prince". He was going nowhere with her until being advised by his employer Henry Ford and grandfather to go back and settled down since his elder brother Wilhelm married morganetically and it was his "duty" to marry and in time to succeed his father being the head of the family.

I think there is more to it about LF, but it will need more investigation. The cousin who found him "soft" was an older female cousin.

Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Marc on March 02, 2014, 09:38:48 AM
morganetically


What is morganetically?
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Превед on March 02, 2014, 11:36:27 AM
Нет не, но на, Эрик. :-)
=
Net ne, no na, Eric.

If he had married her morganatically, she could have used the title of her role in "The Queen was in the Parlour": Prinzessin von Kraya. Sounds lovely bogus and perhaps Ruritarian > Ruthenian > Ukrainian + Края = borderlands.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 02, 2014, 07:56:50 PM
You mean Princess Lily ?
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Превед on March 03, 2014, 07:36:55 AM
You mean Princess Lily ?
Yup.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 03, 2014, 10:48:56 PM
Don't think that would happen. His sister-in-law Dorothy Salvilati (wife of Prinz Wilhelm of Prussia) was a countess I think. Lily would have been that too.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Превед on March 04, 2014, 03:01:07 PM
Don't think that would happen. His sister-in-law Dorothy Salvilati (wife of Prinz Wilhelm of Prussia) was a countess I think. Lily would have been that too.
Areyou thinking of Countess Auguste von Harrach being made Princess of Liegnitz as morgantic spouse of Friedrich Wilhelm III?

I can't find any evidence of Dorothea von Salviati (an untitled noblewoman) being made a countess by the exiled Kaiser. Despite many post-1918 Hohenzollern marriages (at first) deemed unequal there doesn't seem to have been any invented courtesy titles for the spouses or the children of unequal marriages. Probably because of the German law with titles as surnames and which automatically gives spouses and children the same title as surname. It's just the inofficial HRH and social recognisation (in Germany's tightly knit Hochadel) whch they don't get.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on March 04, 2014, 10:19:12 PM
I don't want this to veer too far off-topic but was she the sister of Hans Viktor von Salviati? He is sometimes listed as 'Graf' and was one of the plotters (perhaps along with Louis Ferdinand?) in the failed attempt to assassinate Hitler. He was later executed for his role. I don't know if a) they were related b) he was actually a 'Graf' since sometimes it's listed and sometimes not and c) whether it was hereditary and, if Dorothea was related, their father was a Graf or if the title was bestowed on him individually.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 04, 2014, 10:54:29 PM
Yes. You are right. She did became a Princess (and so were her 2 daughters), but she was very low key & lived quietly after her husband's death.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Превед on March 05, 2014, 12:38:19 AM
I don't want this to veer too far off-topic but was she the sister of Hans Viktor von Salviati? He is sometimes listed as 'Graf' and was one of the plotters (perhaps along with Louis Ferdinand?) in the failed attempt to assassinate Hitler. He was later executed for his role. I don't know if a) they were related b) he was actually a 'Graf' since sometimes it's listed and sometimes not and c) whether it was hereditary and, if Dorothea was related, their father was a Graf or if the title was bestowed on him individually.

Neither of them were count or countess, but they may have been siblings. The few referances to a comital title for these two are mainly on English-language pages, not the German ones, and is probably based on a misunderstanding, a mix-up with the Italian Counts Salviati. The Prussian family is listed in the Genealogisches Handbuch der adeligen Häuser. Adelige Häuser B, Band XV, not in Gräfliche Häuser.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on March 05, 2014, 05:51:28 PM
I don't want this to veer too far off-topic but was she the sister of Hans Viktor von Salviati? He is sometimes listed as 'Graf' and was one of the plotters (perhaps along with Louis Ferdinand?) in the failed attempt to assassinate Hitler. He was later executed for his role. I don't know if a) they were related b) he was actually a 'Graf' since sometimes it's listed and sometimes not and c) whether it was hereditary and, if Dorothea was related, their father was a Graf or if the title was bestowed on him individually.

Neither of them were count or countess, but they may have been siblings. The few referances to a comital title for these two are mainly on English-language pages, not the German ones, and is probably based on a misunderstanding, a mix-up with the Italian Counts Salviati. The Prussian family is listed in the Genealogisches Handbuch der adeligen Häuser. Adelige Häuser B, Band XV, not in Gräfliche Häuser.

Actually most of the sites I found about Hans Viktor WERE in German and not English. However, it doesn't seem, upon further research today, that they were siblings. But the sites that *did* list them as siblings were German (or English using a German source) and not English ones.

One of the few English references I saw to Hans Viktor was John Wheeler-Bennett's memoirs were he recounted meeting Hans Viktor before WW2 and liking him very much.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 10, 2014, 12:25:41 AM
Indeed. They were commoners.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Превед on March 10, 2014, 08:01:58 AM
Indeed. They were commoners.

There were no commoners in Germany. One was either high nobility (including royalty), lower nobility or bourgeoisie.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 12, 2014, 09:57:28 PM
Not sure about that. The Salviatis are definitely not high nobility...I met a woman who knew her sister who works in a photo studio.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Превед on March 12, 2014, 10:00:39 PM
Not sure about that. The Salviatis are definitely not high nobility...I met a woman who knew her sister who works in a photo studio.

Of course they are lower nobility. And they would have been lower nobility even if they had a comital title, as long as it wasn't imperial.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 12, 2014, 10:04:01 PM
Their standing in Germany is middle class without the trappings. The woman took the bus to work every day. No money nor high standing unlike the Thurn & Taxis.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Превед on March 12, 2014, 10:11:01 PM
Their standing in Germany is middle class without the trappings. The woman took the bus to work every day. No money nor high standing unlike the Thurn & Taxis.

It's an (outdated) legal concept, not a social one.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 12, 2014, 10:16:20 PM
Royal Houses (especially dethroned ones) still swear by those rules. Just look at the Orleans Family in France.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Превед on March 12, 2014, 11:08:39 PM
Royal Houses (especially dethroned ones) still swear by those rules. Just look at the Orleans Family in France.

The current Dauphin married a bourgeoise roturière.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Kalafrana on March 13, 2014, 03:53:40 AM
Taking the bus to work sounds a good thing to me.

Slightly off topic, but what became of Prince Wilhelm's wife and family after he was killed?

Ann
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 15, 2014, 11:15:41 PM
Lived quietly as far as I know. She wasn't one to raise waves like Wallis Simpson or Magda Lapedsu
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Kalafrana on March 16, 2014, 06:06:04 AM
Good for her.

Ann
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on May 13, 2014, 02:10:04 AM
Any info on her children ?
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Marc on May 13, 2014, 06:58:55 AM
Royal Houses (especially dethroned ones) still swear by those rules. Just look at the Orleans Family in France.

The current Dauphin married a bourgeoise roturière.

In purely royal eyes,she is,but she still has noble ancestry from both sides of her family and is even related in several ways to her husband...
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on May 14, 2014, 01:40:12 PM
Back on topic please. The discussion on French royals belongs in the appropriate sub-forum and thread(s).
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: rachel5a on May 20, 2014, 05:09:38 AM
The wedding was at Huis Doorn,residence of the exiled Kaiser in The Netherlands.On the official picture with all the guests,the second lady(from the right)sitting,was the then Crownprincess Juliana of The Netherlands.

what is the exact date of their wedding- i know only it was spring 1938...
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on May 20, 2014, 09:07:11 AM
They have 2 wedding dates: 2 May 1938 in Potsdam and May 4 in Doorn
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Kalafrana on May 20, 2014, 09:21:15 AM
Could the first be the civil marriage and the second the religious ceremony?

Ann
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on May 20, 2014, 08:32:59 PM
No...I think they did it again for the Kaiser who cannot travel...also they were of two religions too (Protestant & Russian Orthodox).
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: grandduchessella on May 21, 2014, 08:35:26 AM
Yes, it seems like the 2nd one was done in order to be accomplished in the Kaiser's presence. The original civil ceremony and evening religious ceremonies (Lutheran and Orthodox) were done on May 2.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: rachel5a on May 21, 2014, 09:28:08 AM
Did she remain orthodox?
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Eric_Lowe on May 21, 2014, 10:23:42 PM
I believe so. Although her children were Lutheran.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on September 30, 2015, 11:58:33 AM
Prince Louis Ferdinand s eldest son, Friedrich Wilhelm has died at the age of 76

http://www.bz-berlin.de/berlin/urenkel-von-kaiser-wilhelm-ii-gestorben
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Marie Valerie on January 03, 2016, 11:17:19 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41TmEZ%2BumKL.jpg)

This photo is new to me...

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41gvwpM%2B3FL.jpg)
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Marc on March 19, 2017, 05:33:17 PM
Interesting news:

http://royalmusingsblogspotcom.blogspot.rs/2017/03/breaking-news-hereditary-prince.html

Another Viktoria Luise in question.
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Kalafrana on March 20, 2017, 02:56:27 AM
Certainly interesting, but what complicated genealogy.

I need to sit down with a chart!!!

Ann
Title: Re: Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, his family and descendants
Post by: Marc on March 20, 2017, 04:08:17 PM
Certainly interesting, but what complicated genealogy.

I need to sit down with a chart!!!

Ann

Easy. They are second cousins once removed. ;)