Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => The Imperial Family => Topic started by: Arleen on May 04, 2004, 02:35:43 PM

Title: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Arleen on May 04, 2004, 02:35:43 PM

I guess not a lot is known about her because she died so very young, 21 wasn't it??  I would love to see a picture of her and also one of she and Paul together, do either of her children look like her??                ..Arleen
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: grandduchessella on May 04, 2004, 05:00:35 PM
From what i know of her (and info is very scarce as her life was so short):

She was apparently her father's favorite and her was devastated by her death.

She took after her mother Queen Olga in looks (round face, soft expression, large eyes, fair hair).

She fell in love with Paul (and vice versa) during his many visits to visit the "Greek cousins"

She became great friends with Grand Duchess Elizabeth (Ella) and the 2 couples often "hung out" together. It was at Ella's summer house Illinskoye (forgive bad spelling) that Alexandra fell ill.

Her nickname was Aline.

Rumors abounded in St Petersburg that due to Ella's supposedly unhappy marriage and Paul's early infatuation with her, that Alexandra & Ella's friendship was a sham and Alexandra was a 'beard' basically for Ella & Paul's affair. People referred to her as "that poor unhappy Greek princess" with people basically snickering behind her back. (Note: I personally think this is bull and just part of the nasty gossip surrounding Ella & Serge's relationship and the general nastiness in court in general).

Upon her marriage, the Tsar gave her a pearl necklace set worth about $15 million in today's money. Wonder where that is now?

That's all I can think of for now. I do have some photos but don't know how to upload.  :(
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: grandduchessella on May 05, 2004, 08:42:47 AM
I read about Aline either in Inheritors of Alexander the Great by J. Nicholas Tantzos or Romanov Autumn--I can't remember right now but I think it was the former.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: grandduchessella on August 18, 2004, 04:58:14 PM
Now that's I've gotten my greedy paws on A Romanov Diary by GDss Marie of Greece, GDss George aka Greek Minny, I can add what she had to say about her sister:

p.4: 'Alexandra and Nicholas [her 2 siblings not N&A!] had a passion for taking off their shoes and stockings to paddle in the small brooks in the garden. They never allowed me to paddle too, though I begged hard, because they said I was sure to catch cold and they would be found out. I was made to button my sister's boots afterwards, as no doubt younger sisters have been made to do before.'

p.29:'With them [Ella & Serge] came the Grand Duke Paul [George & Olga's 25th anniversary celebrations]...The latter had spent several winters with us at Athens: he had weak lungs and was ordered to winter in the south. He was my mother's first cousin...We were extremely fond of him, as he was full of fun, a good sort and not very much older than my eldest brothers. It was then that he proposed to my sister Alexandra, and was accepted. We were highly delighted, although we dreaded the moment of losing her from our family circle, for she was indeed everybody's favorite.'

p.39:'People in Athenian society vied with eachother to give my sister a good time during her last winter at home. She had a very jolly character and enjoyed everything to the full. The officers arranged paper hunts for her, as fox hunting did not exist. She loved this more than any other amusement as she was a very good horsewoman, absolutely fearless. I was not allowed to ride, but drove to these hunts, with my mother in a carriage. My father was a wonderful rider too, and my sister and I inherited from him our great love for riding and horses.'

p.40: [after wedding] 'My sister's marriage ceremony lasted about an hour. After this there was a huge banquet, when the health of the bridal couple was toasted by the Emperor...I only remember the horrible sensation of beginning to feel lonely and deserted by my sister, and somehow cut-off from her. She seemed now to belong to something which had nothing in common with a small person like me. My sister looked radiant, and won everyone's heart. Although she was very short, she had a lovely figure and did not look a bit crushed by all the weight of her attire; she carried it off splendidly. The bridal couple did not leave at once for their honeymoon, but went first to a charming palace, also on the quay, which my brother-in-law had bought to be their future home. They asked my parents and all of us to dinner, and it seemed very strange to me, to see my sister at the head of the table as hostess and a grown-up lady. For several days after their marriage they had official receptions at the Winter Palace, and I remember how we all looked on from the balcony at the top of the huge hall. After this ordeal, they at last left for their honeymoon, and went to...Ilyinskoe...A short time before we left for Greece, my sister and her husband arrived to present themselves to our grandparents. Our return to Athens was a sad one, as my sister remained behind and we missed her painfully.'

I haven't yet gotten to her brief marriage and death but will try to post more later.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Janet_W. on August 18, 2004, 05:34:15 PM
Thank you for taking the time and effort to post some very interesting portions from the book! It is--well, oddly comforting-- to read about Paul and Alexandra and the beginnings of what seemed like a wonderful wedded life ahead of them. My sympathies have increased for Marie and Dmitri; it would appear they missed out on some wonderful parenting.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Annie on August 18, 2004, 05:36:19 PM
Yes please post more. How sad they were struck by tragedy and not able to grow up as a family. I'm sure her siblings were heartbroken by her loss too.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Kevin From Australia on August 15, 2005, 03:16:16 AM
Does anyone know the date of teh funeral of Grand Duchess Alexandra Georgievna, wife of Paul Alexandrovitch, and daughter of King George I of the Hellenes.

In fact any details of her funeral would be great

regards

Kevin
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: grandduchessella on August 15, 2005, 09:54:16 AM
Here's what the Washington Post reported:

Sept 29 1891--funeral services were conducted with 'great pomp' on 28 Sept in Moscow; coffin was borne from railway to the Church of St Basil by officers in guard's array and was accompanied by various clergyman in full regalia and carrying icons and sacred banners; streets were draped in mourning and bells continuously tolled; coffin was placed on catafalque in St Bails's and was viewed by 1000s; after services coffin was returned to the railway with same state and ceremony and 'conveyed to St Petersburg where the interment will take place'

Alexandra was later buried in Tatoi though
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Kevin From Australia on August 15, 2005, 06:09:06 PM
Thanks for this - I knew about tatoi but did not know any thing about the original funeral services.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: David_Pritchard on August 15, 2005, 07:12:13 PM
A photograph of the unfortunate grand duchess.

(http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/2224/gdaleksandrageorgievna8sh.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Speedycat on September 11, 2005, 04:27:39 PM
A deperately old topic, but the only place to share this lovely photo of Paul and Aline

(http://img282.imageshack.us/img282/7704/pavelandalexandra8ba.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: isabel on September 19, 2005, 04:50:58 AM
The first generation or the Greek Royal Family was very attached at the Russia´s Imperial Family.

Queen Olga was a Romanof and King George of Grece was the brother of the Tzarina Maria Feodorvna, so their children where first cousins of the Imperial children.

In that times, the Greeks were not very richs, but they married some of their children with members of the I.F. Their son Nicholas married with Elena Vladimirovna, who aported a superb marriage portion. Their two daugthers married Romanov cousins and lived in the magnificent Romanov Court.

Alexandra was the first Princess of the Dinasty who was born in Grece, also she was the most beautiful of the two daughters. She was born in the property of Corfú, the 18/08/1870.

During her childwood, Alexandra and her sister Maria were cared by their nurse, the Comtess Groben.

Princess Maria said " My father take a big care in our education. He insisted in a strict discipline and in a hard work. We had to study Languages and Literature in greek, english, french and german, and also music, arithmetic, drawing and of course religion. He learned gymnastics and horse equine too...".

With eighteen Alexandra was engaged with the Grand Duke Paul, ten years older than her and served in the Imperial Guard. The marriage was fixed for june 1889 and took place in St. Petersburg. To King George the departure of a so loved daughter suposed a big sorrow.

To assist to the marriage all the family went to Russia, in St. Petersburg they stayed in the Marble Palace, property of Queen´s Olga Brother.

After the marriage, Paul and Alexandra lived in a Palace near the Neva, where their first daughter the Grand Duchess Maria Paulovna was born the 18-04-1890.

Several months later Alexandra was pregnant again. During a stay with Grand Duke Sergei and Ella in Ilinskoie, and because a sad litle accident, she had a premature childbirth. In Ilinskoie they only could find the inexpert midwife of the village. The childbirth was complicated. Dimitri was born with seven months pregnancy the 18/09/1891, his mother Alexandra was so ill that she stayed  in coma six days.

Her parents recived a telegram from Grand Duchess Ella informing them that Alexandra had given birth of a premature son, Dimitri, and that she was so ill thay they would come along as soon as posible.

This was a terrible shock, she was only 21.

Her parents arrived to Ilinskoe, Alexandra in coma, never recognized them. After her death they were devasted.

Alexandra was buried in the Fortress of S.Peter and S. Paul in St. Petersbug. In 1940, King George of Grece contracted the promess he had done to his grand mother  Queen Olga, and Alexandra was reburied in Greece, in Tatoi, as her mother wanted. Queen Olga didn´t want that her loved daughter stayed in Russia, the country where so many members of her family were assesinated.





Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: isabel on September 19, 2005, 04:53:34 AM
I have find all this information in the book "The Queen´s Sofía family" by Ricardo Mateos Sáinz de Medrano.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Svetabel on January 17, 2006, 06:50:54 AM
As Grand Duchess.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/KRfamily/al15.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/KRfamily/al16.jpg)


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/KRfamily/al17.jpg)


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/KRfamily/al20.jpg)


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/KRfamily/al10.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/KRfamily/al14.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Svetabel on January 17, 2006, 06:53:03 AM
With mother
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/KRfamily/al26.jpg)






Three more with Pavel

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/KRfamily/al3.jpg)


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/KRfamily/al4.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/KRfamily/al5.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Svetabel on January 17, 2006, 06:54:36 AM
 With her mother and husband (engagement picture I think)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/KRfamily/al23.jpg)


With her daughter GDss Maria

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/KRfamily/al11.jpg)


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/KRfamily/al18.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Svetabel on January 17, 2006, 06:55:19 AM
A serie of photos

With GDss Elizaveta

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/KRfamily/al19.jpg)

With daughter Maria

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/KRfamily/al24.jpg)

With mother, grandmother and daughter Maria
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/KRfamily/al12.jpg)

Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: grandduchessella on January 17, 2006, 11:40:40 AM
*clap* *clap* for Sveta! I love the ones with Ella. I had only seen the last couple before. I like AG a lot as well. I was going to look through my collection for photos but I don't think I have any different ones! I've cropped ones before to just get Alexandra but there from the groups you've posted already. Photos of her are hard to get (and I spend enough money trying!) because she died so young.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Tania+ on January 17, 2006, 12:50:54 PM
Dear Svetabel,

Thank you so very much for the lovely pictures of the Grand Duchess Alexandra Georgievna, nee Princess of Greece.

She really was lovely. What a loss it must have been.
Thank you again for your sharing !

Tatiana
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: grandduchessella on January 17, 2006, 05:22:48 PM
from the memoirs of Alexei Volkov (who worked for GD Paul)

"Their family life flowed there; peacefully and serenely. A first child was born, Grand Duchess Marie Pavlovna. The people most close and dear to him during this time were Grand Duke Serge Alexandrovich and his wife Grand Duchess Elizabeth Feodorovna. Unfortunately, this idyllic family would not last long. Grand Duke Serge Alexandrovich was named to be Governor General of Moscow. He practiced the greatest hospitality, in general, and above all his pleasure was great whenever he had his parents as guests. Grand Duke Paul and Grand Duchess Alexandra frequently saw them at their homes in Moscow and at Ilynskoe. At those times there would be balls in their honor, all very lively, and picnics and receptions without end. It was in Ilynskoe, Moscow Government, than an unexpected and fatal event took place for the Grand Ducal couple. The Grand Duchess, who was awaiting the birth of a second child, fainted one day during a ball, and was stricken with violent pains of premature childbirth. She was immediately taken to her apartments. This sad accident was the result of some imprudence on the part of the Grand Duchess the day before. At the estate at Ilynskoe, on the bank of the Moscow River, a dingy was permanently moored. The Grand Duchess took frequent walks there with her friends. She would not take the small path that led down to where the dingy was moored, but instead always jumped from a small ledge down directly into the dingy. That day, she did that again, despite her advanced pregnancy. This accident of which I speak and the resulting premature birth of the child - later the Grand Duke Dmitri Pavlovich- were the result. Everything was done to save the Grand Duchess. The efforts of doctors, the ultimate in their science, were all in vain. Grand Duchess Alexandra Georgievna died after two days of terrible suffering. It is quite impossible for me to describe the despair of Grand Duke Paul Alexandrovich. "
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Svetabel on January 18, 2006, 12:37:14 AM
Thanks to you all - Mandie and Tania! Special thanks to GDElla! :) I can always count ou you! :D

As for the death of Gd Alexandra. When she collapsed there was no any gynecologist round there! No any experienced doctor, only old midwife who knew not so much...Poor Alexandra died in a state of coma in 2-3 days (I read in some book that she died in 7 days but this sounds unbelievable). :(
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: ZarevnaOlga on February 21, 2006, 02:56:22 AM
Are there pics of AG with her son? Or is she died by his birth?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Svetabel on March 09, 2006, 01:09:12 PM
Just found this one

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/MP/alpav.jpg)

Alexandra and Pavel
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Angie_H on March 09, 2006, 03:48:39 PM
Where did you find it!  :o
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: russianlover76 on March 09, 2006, 08:28:06 PM
Is there any pictures of Alexandra Gerorgievna in her wedding dress?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Svetabel on March 10, 2006, 10:00:55 AM
Quote
Is there any pictures of Alexandra Gerorgievna in her wedding dress?


I've never seen though somewhere (at the Archives I think) must be an engraving at least.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Svetabel on March 10, 2006, 10:05:47 AM
Quote
Where did you find it!  :o


The 2nd edition of State Secretary Alexander Polovtzov's journals (in Russian). A great source of info as his records were embracing a period of 1883-1892 years.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: grandduchessella on March 10, 2006, 05:54:17 PM
You're the best Sveta!  :-*
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Angie_H on April 24, 2006, 03:45:33 PM
After Alexandra & Paul married did he accompany her to the family get togethers in Denmark?
Or did they as a couple attend any of them?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Svetabel on April 25, 2006, 07:00:15 AM
Interesting question. :) If it's considered that Alexandra was pregnant in 1889-1891 years with Maria and  then with Dmirtiy so she possibly had not time for family gatherings in Denmark. :-/  I'll try to check out sources such as Empress MF and Alexander III's correspondence.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: hikaru on April 25, 2006, 08:15:49 AM
Alexandra was in Greece , almost just after the getting the birth to Maria , in the october of 1890.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: imperial angel on April 27, 2006, 11:23:44 AM
Thanks for all the photos and info about this little known Grand Duchess. The pictures are lovely. How was she thought of by her children in future years? They must have known had she lived they woudn't have been put in the care of Ella and Sergei, and Marie Pavlovna, Alexandra's daughter, always said that Ella was not that kind to her. That could be dramatics for her autobiography, but did Marie P. think her life would have been happier had her mother lived?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Svetabel on April 27, 2006, 02:01:56 PM
Quote
T That could be dramatics for her autobiography, but did Marie P. think her life would have been happier had her mother lived?
I guess Maria Pavlovna did think that her life would have been happier and easier with her mother. It's a natural feeling for a child who lost his mother...Though Maria does not say anything on this in her memories.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: PrinceEddy1864 on April 27, 2006, 02:51:44 PM
I don't think Maria dwelled over the fact that she did not have a mother or struggled with it too deeply. She may have felt that her life would have been easier or at least more "normal" with her mother in it but I don't think the fact played too much into her day to day life. Afterall Maria had no memories of her mother or the transitional period she a Dimitri went through in the years following their mother's death. It is harder to miss someone that you never knew.

Knowing how close Alexandra and Ella were, I'm sure Alexandra would have been pleased to know that Ella would become the children's gardian. Alexandra proabaly would rather have had no one else fill the position. This does not seem to have mattered to Maria P though or influenced the way she viewed Ella. I may be slightly off here. -

I think that if Maria truly cared about her dead mother then the mere fact that Ella had been so close to her would have endeared Maria to Ella a bit more.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: imperial angel on April 28, 2006, 08:21:53 AM
That's true. It seems although other people regarded her as something of a saint, or at least a nice woman, Ella seemed to suffer in Marie's eyes. This could have been simply personality clash, or the fact that perhaps Ella resented Marie because she had no children of her own, although she was not this way to Dmitri, it is said. Marie perhaps did not think much about her mother, and I doubt Dmitri did too much. Which one of them was more like her anyway? Although it's hard to know that much about Alexandra G.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: kmerov on May 02, 2006, 02:01:56 PM
Quote
After Alexandra & Paul married did he accompany her to the family get togethers in Denmark?
Or did they as a couple attend any of them?
I'm not sure, but I don't think that they did. In 1891 there was a family gathering in Denmark, but without Alexandra Georgievna. She became ill and died during the gathering, and her parents and Alexander III and MF left Denmark to attend the funeral.  
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Svetabel on May 02, 2006, 02:16:38 PM
Quote
T Marie perhaps did not think much about her mother, and I doubt Dmitri did too much. Which one of them was more like her anyway?
I think that Maria was more like her mother - mostly not in the appearance but in character.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: LisaDavidson on May 02, 2006, 04:04:20 PM
Quote
Quote
After Alexandra & Paul married did he accompany her to the family get togethers in Denmark?
Or did they as a couple attend any of them?
I'm not sure, but I don't think that they did. In 1891 there was a family gathering in Denmark, but without Alexandra Georgievna. She became ill and died during the gathering, and her parents and Alexander III and MF left Denmark to attend the funeral.  

Alexandra suffered from complications during her second pregnancy - I believe it was eclampsia. I don't know why she didn't have better prenatal care, as pre-eclampsia is a known complication and is treated with bed rest. This could have saved her and in saving her, could have spared her family much grief.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: imperial angel on May 03, 2006, 08:16:23 AM
Indeed, you would think she would have gotten fairly good care, but child birth was dangerous to the mother and child, even as late as 1890, although no doubt it was less dangerous than it had been earlier. They would most likely have had more children had Alexandra lived longer, and perhaps both her children might have been happier people, or more settled. Marie Pavlovna could have been like her mother; thanks for telling me that as I know little of Grand Duchess Alexandra.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: kmerov on June 08, 2006, 08:09:44 PM
Quote
After Alexandra & Paul married did he accompany her to the family get togethers in Denmark?
Or did they as a couple attend any of them?

I just found out that GD Paul and GDss Alexandra attendet a gathering in 1889, the same year they got married, and her brother George finished his education in Denmark. Vicky (Empress Friedrich) also attended the gathering along with Princess Sophie who was engaged to Crown Prince Konstantin.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: isabel on January 22, 2007, 03:14:59 PM
I have just finish to colorize this one of Alexandra and Ella and post it  in Having Fun.

I know that this is not the place to post colored pictures but i have not it in bw right now.

I hope you´ll like it.

(http://img477.imageshack.us/img477/8514/aell6yu9en.th.jpg) (http://img477.imageshack.us/my.php?image=aell6yu9en.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: anitchkov on December 26, 2007, 08:25:42 AM
I was reading about Queen Olga of Greece and her daughter Grand Duchess Alexandra Georgievna, who was married to Grand Duke Paul Alexandrovich.  Anyway, the article indicated that when Alexandra died shortly after childbirth (Grand Duke Dimnitri) she died and was buried with the rest of the Imperial family in Russia.  However, in 1938 her body was moved out of Russia and buried with the Greek Royal family in Tatoi outside of Athens.  I found this incredible on two counts.  How did they manage to convince Stalin to turn over her remains and then why would Stalin permit it in the first place?  Does anyone know how this event transpired?  Who asked for the remains to be returned to Greece?  Any information would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Svetabel on July 17, 2008, 12:36:30 PM
As Grand Duchess.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/KRfamily/al15.jpg)




The same sitting

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Rarefind/alex2.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on July 20, 2008, 03:59:17 PM
So pretty! Isn't that her engagement photos?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Svetabel on July 21, 2008, 01:01:58 AM
So pretty! Isn't that her engagement photos?

More likely.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on July 21, 2008, 05:49:16 PM
just asking....
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: TampaBay on July 22, 2008, 08:29:14 AM
How old was Alexandra Georgievna when she married?

TampaBay
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: royaltybuff on July 22, 2008, 08:50:34 AM
How old was Alexandra Georgievna when she married?

TampaBay

She was 19 years old. According to Wikipedia, her brother Prince Nicholas had the following to say about her: "She looked young and beautiful, and ever since she was a child, life looked as it had nothing but joy and happiness in store for her." What a touching and sad memory of a sister.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Svetabel on August 05, 2008, 12:59:38 AM
GDss Alexandra G. and her husband with friends (Russian Nobility)

(http://www.picatom.com/n/1745-1-th.jpg) (http://www.picatom.com/n/1745-1.html)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Svetabel on September 22, 2008, 02:46:17 PM
Grand Duchesses Alexandra and Elizaveta

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Rarefind/alixella.jpg)

Here Alexandra is pregnant, summer 1891.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Rarefind/1891alixella.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Laura_ on September 23, 2008, 09:30:09 AM
Alexandra looked beautiful in the second pic  :)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Svetabel on September 23, 2008, 12:04:08 PM
Alexandra looked beautiful in the second pic  :)

Yes, and in that picture she has a striking resemblance to her son, GD Dmitriy.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: ashanti01 on September 24, 2008, 08:15:38 PM
Alexandra looked beautiful in the second pic  :)

Yes, and in that picture she has a striking resemblance to her son, GD Dmitriy.

Beautiful pictures Svetabel.

Did you find them in a new Russian book? You're right about the resemblance to Dmitry. Odd, how I always thought he looked like her father. 
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Svetabel on September 25, 2008, 12:37:01 AM
Alexandra looked beautiful in the second pic  :)

Yes, and in that picture she has a striking resemblance to her son, GD Dmitriy.

Beautiful pictures Svetabel.

Did you find them in a new Russian book? You're right about the resemblance to Dmitry. Odd, how I always thought he looked like her father. 

Yes, the same book I mentioned on the Ella thread.

Indeed I always thought GD Dmitriy looked like his father, while his sister Maria resembled mother. But in fact they both resembled their mother.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Olgasha on April 02, 2009, 05:21:34 AM
GD Paul as a little boy:
(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/8972/gdpaul.jpg)
(http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/7135/gdpaul2.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Olgasha on April 07, 2009, 03:30:21 AM
GD Paul
(http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/9872/pavelek.jpg)

(http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/8809/pavelalexandrovich.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Olgasha on April 21, 2009, 01:30:30 PM
Alexander II with his youngest son Paul
(http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/6654/emperorson.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Olgasha on April 26, 2009, 10:59:22 AM
Pavel & Sergei
(http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/9537/brothersf.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Olgasha on April 30, 2009, 02:28:58 AM
GD Pavel Alexandrovich
(http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/1554/5f733189cb46pavel.jpg)

Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Olgasha on September 01, 2009, 09:11:21 AM
GD Pavel Alexandrovich
(http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/1921/0013026.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Svetabel on November 13, 2009, 03:03:59 AM

Alexandra suffered from complications during her second pregnancy - I believe it was eclampsia. I don't know why she didn't have better prenatal care, as pre-eclampsia is a known complication and is treated with bed rest. This could have saved her and in saving her, could have spared her family much grief.

The reason of her eclampsia were weak heart and kidneys, and this fact was discovered only after her death and autopsy.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: ashanti01 on November 13, 2009, 10:26:42 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/olgaalexandragreek-1.jpg)
Queen Olga with Alexandra
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Svetabel on November 16, 2009, 12:57:48 AM
Quote
After Alexandra & Paul married did he accompany her to the family get togethers in Denmark?
Or did they as a couple attend any of them?

I just found out that GD Paul and GDss Alexandra attendet a gathering in 1889, the same year they got married, and her brother George finished his education in Denmark. Vicky (Empress Friedrich) also attended the gathering along with Princess Sophie who was engaged to Crown Prince Konstantin.


As for Pavel and Alexandra's visits to Denamrk, then they had been there in August-September 1889, just after their honeymoon in Ilinskoe, estate of GD Sergei. Then they visited Denamrk in 1890, after the birth of their daughter.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Svetabel on February 07, 2010, 01:50:44 AM
GDss Alexandra, with her husband Pavel, his sister Marie and her children. Also the famous Charlotte of Saxe-Meiningen is there.The year is 1889-1890.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Rarefind/ChildrenofDukeAlfred_theirmother_Ru.jpg)

From left to right: Princess Alexandra of Edinburgh, Princess Victoria Melita,Princess Charlotte of Saxe-Meiningen, Princess Marie aka Missy, GDss Alexandra with GD Pavel, Duchess Marie and her son Prince Alfred-jr.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Rarefind/ChildrenofDukeAlfred_theirmother-1.jpg)

The same merry company.

I wished the photos were bigger. Possibly someone has seen them in better size.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Speedycat on June 03, 2010, 07:50:01 PM
It is such a shame Alexandra Georgievna passed away so young.  She seemd to have a kind and gentle temperment.  With her deep friendship with Ella, perhaps she could have been a good friend to Alix in her early years in Russia.
In regards to the post with the large composite photo/etching of King Christian's extended family:  Where is Queen Louise?  Am I just missing her in that vast group of people?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on June 03, 2010, 09:40:53 PM
I know what ifs are waste of time but do you think the death of Alexandra made Paul, Ella and Serge distant to Maria and Dmitri in some ways or just I think that way?...
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Speedycat on June 04, 2010, 01:56:23 PM
How difficult that must have been for poor Paul...life or death for either his child or his wife.  I am sure this in some way effected his realtionship with his children.  Maybe this spilled over to the relationship Ella and Sergei too.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on June 09, 2010, 08:04:50 AM
Alexander and baby Pavel

(http://i45.tinypic.com/2e1xc43.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Svetabel on June 17, 2010, 08:05:25 AM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Rarefind/eb18148e.jpg)

In 1889-1890
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Svetabel on June 17, 2010, 09:09:26 AM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Rarefind/57e9c09f.jpg)

One of the loveliest of her I think
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Veronica on June 17, 2010, 04:52:34 PM
Let's not forget this one :):

(http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/3811/alexandrageorgievna353.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: ashanti01 on July 09, 2010, 11:35:10 PM
I decided to open a thread for Grand Duke Paul Alexandrovich. Oddly enough, it seemed we had threads for his first wife Grand Duchess Alexandra Georgievna, his children Maria and Paul and second family the Paley's. But no thread for the Grand Duke himself.

I'll start by posting some photos of Paul as a child.

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/paley/PAUL/paulchild/filegdpaulchild.jpg)

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/paley/PAUL/paulchild/filecutepaulbear.jpg)

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/paley/PAUL/paulchild/filepaul.jpg)

I absolutely love the last two.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: LisaDavidson on July 10, 2010, 01:03:43 AM
Paul did not have a son Paul. His sons were Dmitri and Vladimir.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: ashanti01 on July 10, 2010, 01:25:03 AM
Thanks Lisa. I didn't notice the typo. I meant Dmitri not Paul.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on July 12, 2010, 08:48:42 AM
Little Pavel in cossak uniform

(http://i28.tinypic.com/nxnrmd.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: ashanti01 on July 14, 2010, 12:54:58 AM
In the last photo, he looks a little like Dmitri did at the same age.

Another of Paul as a child
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/paley/PAUL/paulchild/hpqscan0035.jpg)

and one with his father
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/paley/PAUL/paulchild/hpqscan0033-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: ashanti01 on July 14, 2010, 12:58:16 AM
I believe these two photos are from the same session of the photo posted by Katenka

GD Serge, GD Maria and GD Paul
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/paley/PAUL/paulchild/hpqscan0035-1.jpg)

GD Serge and GD Paul
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/paley/PAUL/paulchild/hpqscan0035-2.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: ashanti01 on July 14, 2010, 08:09:08 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/paley/PAUL/hpqscan0041-1-1.jpg)
GD Paul
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: kmerov on July 17, 2010, 06:46:36 AM
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/IF%20of%20Russia/GDPaulAlexandrovich.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Olgasha on July 17, 2010, 02:57:48 PM
(http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/9674/4869.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: ashanti01 on July 17, 2010, 07:59:54 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/paley/PAUL/paulchild/2_56-1.jpg)
a young GD Paul
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: LisaDavidson on July 18, 2010, 12:15:51 AM
Young pictures of Paul Alexandrovich, Dmitri Pavlovich, and Paul Dmitrivich all look so alike! Amazing!
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: rachel5a on July 21, 2010, 02:36:58 PM
I would love to see more pictures of GD Paul with his son GD Dmitri Pavlovich! :)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: ashanti01 on July 21, 2010, 03:34:59 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/paley/PAUL/ellasergepaulmariadmtry.jpg)
GD Ella holding Maria, GD Serge and GD Paul holding Dmitri.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Kalafrana on July 22, 2010, 05:45:20 AM
None of them looks very comfortable. Paul looks as though he's wondering whether Dimitri is about to wet himself.

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on July 22, 2010, 07:10:42 AM
From that same session and he doesnt look confortable at all!!!

(http://i48.tinypic.com/2pt5grd.png)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: ashanti01 on July 27, 2010, 05:06:40 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/paley/PAUL/hpqscan0150-1.jpg)
Grand Duke Paul with his daughter, Irina.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: ashanti01 on August 19, 2010, 11:38:21 PM
GD Paul in costume
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/paley/PAUL/gdpcost001-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: ashanti01 on August 19, 2010, 11:43:29 PM
A young and handsome GD Paul
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/paley/PAUL/paul17001-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Sara Araújo on August 20, 2010, 04:03:43 AM
In Princess Paley's memoirs the mentions that Grand Duke Paul was the first one to give the news about Nicholas II abdication to Empress Alexandra, which I don't think I've read anywhere else. Does anyone know how accurate this memoirs actually are?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on August 20, 2010, 09:17:45 AM
Young Pavel

(http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/8095/6627094.jpg) (http://img230.imageshack.us/i/6627094.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Olgasha on August 23, 2010, 05:34:23 PM
GD Pavel Aleksandrovich
(http://www.spbvedomosti.ru/images/upload/5-Rasstrelyani-5.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: ashanti01 on August 27, 2010, 11:28:49 AM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/paley/PAUL/hpqscan0038.jpg)
GD Paul
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Olgasha on August 27, 2010, 11:32:26 AM
Pavel as a child
(http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/2122/16am.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: ashanti01 on August 30, 2010, 08:26:07 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/paley/PAUL/youngpaul/ygdpaul-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on September 05, 2010, 02:59:54 PM
Pavel with Maria and Dmitri

(http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/3614/ne-nai.3/0_10832_4354ec8c_L.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Svetabel on September 05, 2010, 11:32:44 PM
In Princess Paley's memoirs the mentions that Grand Duke Paul was the first one to give the news about Nicholas II abdication to Empress Alexandra, which I don't think I've read anywhere else. Does anyone know how accurate this memoirs actually are?

Right now I can't say exactly the source but I read somewhere else that Pavel gave that sad news...
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Olgasha on September 06, 2010, 07:40:52 AM
Young GD Pavel with elder brother Sergei
(http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/4106/ne-nai.20/0_1d957_6e76128_XL.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Olgasha on September 11, 2010, 07:15:15 AM
GD Pavel
(http://rusich1.ru/_ph/14/2/644465953.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on September 15, 2010, 12:18:01 PM
(http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/144/paulo2.png)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: ashanti01 on September 15, 2010, 02:42:08 PM
Does anyone know exactly when and where Grand Duke Paul met Olga von Pistohlkors?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Sara Araújo on September 15, 2010, 04:14:22 PM
I remember reading that he met her during a military parade or some sort of military event where her husband was participating. Her husband was Grand Duke Vladimir's aide-de-camp, and they had met before, so when he saw Paul again, at this event, he introduced him to his wife and some say it was love at first sight.  :)

This is the version I know, I'm not sure if there are others.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: ashanti01 on September 22, 2010, 04:09:52 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/paley/PAUL/gdpaulcostume-1.jpg)
GD Paul
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Olgasha on October 06, 2010, 08:52:18 AM
GD Pavel Aleksandrovich with greek royal family
(http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/3254/greckiepawel.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: ashanti01 on October 06, 2010, 11:21:12 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/Ella/vlcsnap-103351.png)
GD Paul with his first wife GD Alexandra
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on October 16, 2010, 06:58:05 PM
GD Pavel visiting sister Maria

(http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/2038/03418e7a5a2f592xl.jpg) (http://img220.imageshack.us/i/03418e7a5a2f592xl.jpg/)

From left to right : unknown, Beatrice, Alfred , Alfred Sr, Uknown, Alexandra,  Ernst of Hohenlohe-Langenburg, Maria Alexandrovna, Unknown, Gd Pavel

 

Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: ashanti01 on November 12, 2010, 07:17:48 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/paley/hpqscan0161-1.jpg)
GD Paul with his second family 1905
L to R: GD Paul holding Natalie, behind him is Maria Golovine, Olga Golovine, in front of her is Olga Paley holding Irina, Vladimir is next to Olga Ericovna v. Pistolkors, and Olga Karnovitch
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on November 13, 2010, 05:17:47 AM
Paul with Dmitri and Maria

(http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/4213/efasffdf.jpg) (http://img98.imageshack.us/i/efasffdf.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Olgasha on November 13, 2010, 07:30:51 AM
GD Pavel Aleksandrovich
(http://i073.radikal.ru/1010/f8/ebc64b50bdcb.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: violetta on November 13, 2010, 10:04:22 AM
In Princess Paley's memoirs the mentions that Grand Duke Paul was the first one to give the news about Nicholas II abdication to Empress Alexandra, which I don't think I've read anywhere else. Does anyone know how accurate this memoirs actually are?

Right now I can't say exactly the source but I read somewhere else that Pavel gave that sad news...



I definitely read that GD Paul was invited by the Empress to the Alexander Palace. The invitation came when the situation in St.petersburg and Tsarskoe Selo became really tense. Though Alexandra isolated herself and the rest of the family from the other Romanovs the strain must have been horrible because she invited GD Paul who was definitely opposed her policy. 
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Olgasha on November 13, 2010, 12:01:06 PM
GD Paul who was definitely opposed her policy. 
It's not Pavel, but GD Alexander Mikhailovich was definitely opposed her policy.

Pavel was in Alexandra's  'camp' as a friend, together with his wife Olga Paley.

And that's right, it was Pavel who gave the news about Nicholas II abdication to Empress Alexandra. I read about it in several different books.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: violetta on November 13, 2010, 01:12:24 PM
well, i don`t think AF had friends among the Romanovs at the beginning of 1917. Though paul didn`t voice his opinion as strongly as Ksenya`s husband did he wasn`t her ardent supporter.
He was loyal to his sovereign buy AF didn`t evoke positive feelings in him.

Here is what Olga Paley said in her memories:
28.02.1917


 I found the Grand Duke extremely disturbed, The uncertainty of the fate in store for the Emperor whom he cherished gave his mind no rest. He was walking up and down in his study, pulling nervously at his moustache. He was just considering whether he ought not to go and visit the Empress, whom he had not seen since the departure of his son, when a telephone message from the Palace brought him a request from her that he should go to her at once. It was four o'clock The moment the car was ready he started. She gave him an unfriendly reception. After asking for details as to what was happening in Petrograd, she said to him, in a somewhat hard voice that if the Imperial family had supported the Emperor instead of giving him bad advice, all this would not have happened. The Grand Duke replied that neither the Emperor nor she had the right to doubt his fidelity and his loyalty, that there was no time now to discuss old disputes and that it was essential at all costs that the Emperor should return as quickly as possible. The Empress replied that he would return next day, March 1st/14th. The Grand Duke promised to meet him at the station, and he left the Empress after satisfying himself that neither she nor her children, who were all ill, would be running any risks and that they were well protected.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: violetta on November 13, 2010, 01:17:19 PM
from olga paley


Next morning at eight o'clock the car came to take the Grand Duke to the Imperial Pavilion to meet the Emperor, who was to arrive at 8.30. After waiting some time he returned to Mme. de Speyer's, extremely disturbed-the Emperor had not arrived! At a point half-way from Mohileff to Tsarskoe-Selo, the Revolutionaries stopped the Imperial train and turned it towards Pskov.


Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: violetta on November 13, 2010, 01:38:34 PM

from olga paley

On that same day, March 3rd/16th, the Grand Duke went to visit the Empress at eleven o'clock. It may seem improbable, but the poor woman did not know of the abdication of her husband!

None of all those around her had had the courage to deal this blow to her. The five children were ill, the two elder girls and the youngest were, recovering from measles, but the third, the Grand Duchess Marie, and the Tsaritza were at their worst. The Grand Duke went very quietly into her room and kissed her hand very slowly, . " finding it impossible to utter a word. His heart was palpitating. The Empress, attired like an ordinary hospital nurse, struck him by her calm and the serenity of her gaze.

"Dear Alix," the Grand Duke said at last, " I wanted to be with you at this painful moment."

The Empress looked him straight in the eyes.

"Nicky? " she asked. .

"Nicky is well," the Grand Duke hastened to make answer, "but be brave, as brave as he has been! To-day, the 3rd of March, at one 0' clock in the morning, he signed his abdication for himself and for Alexis."

The Empress trembled and bent down her head, as though she were uttering a prayer. Then, drawing herself up again, she said:

"If Nicky has done that, it is because he had to do so. I have faith in the Divine Mercy. God will not abandon us."

But while saying these words large tears were rolling down her cheeks."I am no longer Empress," she said with a sad smile, "but I remain a Sister of Charity. As it is Micha who is Emperor, I shall look after my children and my hospital. We shall go to the Crimea."


Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Olgasha on November 13, 2010, 02:24:23 PM
well, i don`t think AF had friends among the Romanovs at the beginning of 1917.

Well, I think, she had. And Pavel and Pavel's wife Olga were among them. Though I don't know whether it was sincere on their part or not.

As we know, Olga had been given the title of Princess, although she was divorcee and had an illegitimate children. So she was treated exceptionally well in the Court.
After their return to Russia Pavel and Olga even had a palace in Tsarskoe Selo - as Crawfords wrote in their book: 'so that she (Olga) could live on the Imperial doorstep".
Crawfords also added that Olga Paley 'had set out to ingratiate herself with Alexandra, flattering her at every turn', she sometimes came to her for tea and chat.
Don't you think that in  that situation, she and her husband definitely were in Alexandra's camp? I think they were.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: violetta on November 13, 2010, 02:47:44 PM
Olga, now I definitely remember what Crawford wrote about Princess Paley and Alexandra. I wonder why AF treated GD PAul`s morganatic wife so well. Was it sincere on GD and Olga Paley`s part? I don`t know. BUt as we can see GD PAul was loyal to his sovereign till the end unlike Kyril or many others.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: violetta on November 13, 2010, 03:05:42 PM
(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/_Grand_Duke_Pavel_Alexandrovich.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on November 13, 2010, 06:12:55 PM
PAvel & Olga

(http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/8503/10409871a.jpg) (http://img404.imageshack.us/i/10409871a.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Olgasha on November 21, 2010, 05:00:16 AM
(http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/4651/25497r.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Sara Araújo on November 21, 2010, 07:27:03 AM
Olga, now I definitely remember what Crawford wrote about Princess Paley and Alexandra. I wonder why AF treated GD PAul`s morganatic wife so well. Was it sincere on GD and Olga Paley`s part? I don`t know. BUt as we can see GD PAul was loyal to his sovereign till the end unlike Kyril or many others.

I think he was more loyal to the sacred image of the Tsar, than to his nephew or his wife. As he was extremely religious and was taught to believe that the Tsar was on the throne through divine right, he was always faithful to that notion, but, from what I've read, he resented both Nicholas II and Alexandra Feodorovna for what they had done to him in 1902 and later because of the way they treated Dmitri after Rasputin's murder, the difference from other Grand Dukes of the time was that he didn't let that resentment get in the way of his religious believes and that is why I think that Nicholas was softer with him and his wife, perhaps because they shared that religious sense of duty. Paul was much closer to Alexander Mikhailovich's point of view than anything else. Princess Paley even notes in her memoirs that they had a meeting shortly after Empress Maria Feodorvna's birthday or name day in which Alexander asked Paul to be a kind of spokesman of the Grand Dukes about the Rasputin question.

I think this excerpt from Maurice Paléologue's memoirs illustrates very well Paul's position concerning the Tsar:

Tuesday, January 23, 1917.

I have dined at Tsarskoe Selo with the Grand Duke Paul's family party.

When we rose from table, the Grand Duke took me into a distant room so that we could talk as man to man. He made me the confidante of all his griefs and anxieties.

"The Emperor is more under the Empress's thumb than ever. She has succeeded in persuading him that the hostile movement against her - and it's beginning to be against him, unfortunately - is nothing but a conspiracy of the Grand Dukes and a drawing-room revolt. All this can only end with a tragedy ... You know my belief in monarchy, and that to me the Emperor represents everything that is sacred. You must realize what I am suffering through what is happening, and is yet to happen."

From his emotion and the tone of his words I could see that he is terribly upset that his son Dimitri should have been involved in the prologue of the drama. . He continued umprompted:

"Isn't it dreadful that, all over the Empire, candles are being lit before the ikon of Saint Dimitri and my son is being styled the liberator of Russia!"

The notion that his son might be proclaimed Tsar at any time does not seem to have entered his head. He is what he has always been, a paragon of loyalty and chivalry.

He then told me that when he heard at Mohilev of Rasputin's murder, he immediately returned to Tsarskoe Selo.

When he arrived in the station late in the day of the 31st December, he found on the platform Princess Paley who told him that Dimitri had been arrested in his palace at Petrograd. He at once asked an audience of the Emperor, who consented to receive him at eleven o'clock the same evening, but "only for five minutes," as he had a great deal to do.

On being ushered into his august nephew's presence, the Grand Duke Paul made a strong protest against the arrest of his son:

"No one has any right to arrest a Grand Duke without a formal order from you. Please have him released ... Surely you're not afraid that he'll run away?"

The Emperor evaded any definite reply and put an end to the conversation.

Next morning the Grand Duke Paul went to Petrograd to see his son at the palace on the Nevsky Prospekt. He asked him:

"Did you kill Rasputin?

"No."

"Are you prepared to swear it on the holy ikon of the Virgin and your mother's photograph?"

"Yes."

The Grand Duke Paul then handed him an ikon of the Virgin and a photograph of the late Grand Duchess Alexandra:

"Now: swear that you didn't kill Rasputin."

"I swear it."

As he told me this incident, the Grand Duke made a really touching picture of nobility, truth and dignity. He ended with these words:

"I know nothing more of the tragedy; I didn't want to know any more."

During the railway journey back to Petrograd I discussed what the Grand Duke had told me with Madame P - -.

"I'm even more pessimistic than he," she exclaimed with flashing eyes. "The tragedy now on its way will be not only a dynastic crisis but a terrible revolution; we can't escape it ... Don't forget what I'm foretelling; the disaster is at hand."

I then quoted her the terrible prophecy which the blindness of Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette wrung from the lips of Mirabeau in September, 1789: All is lost. The King and Queen will perish. The people will batter their corpses!

She replied

"If we only had a Mirabeau!"
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: ashanti01 on January 18, 2011, 11:47:48 PM
Grand Duke Paul
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/gdpaulhunting.png)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: bestfriendsgirl on February 05, 2011, 02:16:03 PM
I've always wondered if, when Grand Duke Paul married Olga, he was forced to leave his children from his first marriage with Grand Duke Sergei and GD Ella, or did he leave them voluntarily? It strikes me as terribly sad and it's not surprising that both Maria and Dmitri had "issues" later on.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Svetabel on February 05, 2011, 03:34:54 PM
I've always wondered if, when Grand Duke Paul married Olga, he was forced to leave his children from his first marriage with Grand Duke Sergei and GD Ella, or did he leave them voluntarily? It strikes me as terribly sad and it's not surprising that both Maria and Dmitri had "issues" later on.

Marrying Olga he probably understood that he wouldn't live in Russia as his marriage was a morganatic one. So, the Emperor couldn't let his children live with him and his morganatic wife somewhere in Europe. Pavel definitely understood that children would be taken away from him, but he wanted marry Olga at any cost. He left Russia with a million roubles in his pocket (he knew he would be punished and was ready to wait out the storm), married in Livorno his beloved Olga and then...was very offended that children became "children in ward", in ward of his own brother Sergei. The most of the Romanovs were thrilled wirth Pavel's selfishness.

So, answering your question it should be said: yes, he was forced and yes, he left them voluntarily.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: bestfriendsgirl on February 05, 2011, 03:51:48 PM
I agree with most of the Romanovs. It's sad when a parent chooses a romantic partner over children, and it happens a lot, at least here in the US, mostly with women.
@ashanti01 - Thanks for the photo. It appears that he is built the complete opposite of Nicholas II - a short body and legs right up to his neck.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Sara Araújo on February 05, 2011, 04:10:29 PM
I've always wondered if, when Grand Duke Paul married Olga, he was forced to leave his children from his first marriage with Grand Duke Sergei and GD Ella, or did he leave them voluntarily? It strikes me as terribly sad and it's not surprising that both Maria and Dmitri had "issues" later on.

I've read that he was sure he would have to leave Dmitri behind for his military training, but that he was hoping the Tsar would let him keep Maria when he had finally settled. Before Paul and Olga were married, they had been travelling around Europe, staying in hotel rooms with their son Vladimir, for a considerable period of time (two years I think), as Paul still somewhat hoped that his nephew would allow the match. Since Paul was a widower, had already lived a dynastic marriage and produced offspring from it, both him and his mistress hoped for years that their situation would be regarded as different from other unions of the sort, but this permission never came. When Paul finally realised this, he decided to go ahead with the ceremony, even though he knew the consequences.

One can actually understand his decision. Maria and Dmitri, as much as he loved them, belonged to the crown, but his youngest son was his own and the Russian court had no rights over him, so maybe he thought it would be better to solve his and his mother's situation than to sit around, waiting for a third party to make that decision for him.

But even though he had to leave them, he never stopped writing and at least Maria always spent two weeks in Paris with him and his new family in Paris during the summer.  :)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: bestfriendsgirl on February 07, 2011, 12:16:29 PM
One can actually understand his decision. Maria and Dmitri, as much as he loved them, belonged to the crown, but his youngest son was his own and the Russian court had no rights over him, so maybe he thought it would be better to solve his and his mother's situation than to sit around, waiting for a third party to make that decision for him.
True dat ... He was Vladimir's father too. Sometimes one is left with nothing but bad choices. I can sort of understand where Nicholas was coming from, not permitting the marriage - if he approved Paul's, then he'd have to approve all the other "inappropriate" ones. Still, as Tsar, he was in a position to pick and choose his battles like few other people were, and he could have made a sad situation easier.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: ashanti01 on February 10, 2011, 10:55:54 AM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/paley/PAUL/gdpaulcostum001-1.jpg)
GD Paul c. 1890
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Sara Araújo on February 10, 2011, 11:44:55 AM
Not every man could pull tights as well as Grand Duke Paul did!  :)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Svetabel on February 10, 2011, 12:40:10 PM
Not every man could pull tights as well as Grand Duke Paul did!  :)

But he did that for playing Prince Christian of Denmark in the play "Tzar Boris" ))
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Sara Araújo on February 10, 2011, 04:23:14 PM
Nice legs, though.  ;)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: ashanti01 on February 17, 2011, 05:04:32 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/gdpa001-1.jpg)
GD Paul
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Sara Araújo on March 09, 2011, 10:29:57 AM
With his nephew:

(http://images.orkut.com/orkut/photos/OgAAAIYfErCfJFXfqh-ZwAfeXiwzbuYJ0iZyd36-KRhli3xhjXO86VUF-V81m-py4f7uo8N0uqTID8RUeDHU-PbrsI4Am1T1UCBwdt4zhIltSBmG76lzHzbb8ht9.jpg)

With Elena Vladimirovna:

(http://images.orkut.com/orkut/photos/OgAAABrbwlLlr2PDQBtHXlvFrACFFQlne4PK0vsi4_VI-LPaNEVpOWKEtp-0jA08KG1VYqHm9vc_IBbUBFKWByUjUasAm1T1UAlPKVcMBBEv_CRghC079dzUsrr_.jpg)

And solo:

(http://images.orkut.com/orkut/photos/OgAAABJuzDHnyJbwgd8N-Pj5NZiSpNLkmtnR6eoT765ak6GWUjtS1a8VPJDHFREwgTQ6e6nRMvZl-ldzYEH7ASA7pFkAm1T1UGDZ4AXyKtDv_AJHgDdC2GDK6vJ1.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: ashanti01 on March 10, 2011, 10:52:21 AM
Grand Duke Paul with his first wife Grand Duchess Alexandra
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/paley/PAUL/gdpgda001.jpg)

Group shot, GD Alexandra & GD Paul in the back row. Prince & Princess Youssoupoff in the first row
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/paley/PAUL/groupphoto001-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: bestfriendsgirl on March 17, 2011, 08:23:46 PM
Thanks for the photo. Grand Duke Paul has become my favorite Romanov after Nicky and I'm really enjoying reading and learning more about him. I read Princess Paley's book on-line and The Romanovs 1819 - 1959 and am now reading Flight of the Romanovs ... it's interesting to read the variety of opinions on his actions.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: ashanti01 on March 20, 2011, 03:07:38 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/gdpko001.jpg)
Grand Duke Paul with his cousins Olga Konstantinovna & GD Konstantine 
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: aleksandr pavlovich on March 20, 2011, 05:28:39 PM
Re Posting # 71:  It might interest you to know that Grand Duke Paul's great-grandson posts here occasionally.     AP.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: bestfriendsgirl on March 20, 2011, 05:48:03 PM
Foreals? How facinating! What's his screen name? Or is that you, AP?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: aleksandr pavlovich on March 20, 2011, 08:21:39 PM
The information to which I referred is "for real." Nothing further should be "read" into it.  Regards,  AP. 
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: LisaDavidson on March 20, 2011, 08:59:17 PM
There is really no mystery here. Grand Duke Paul has a number of great grandchildren, including the grandchildren of Lennart, Count Bernadotte, and the grandchildren of Grand Duke Dmitri. (And also for the record, great grand children through Princess Irene Paley). However, by process of elimination, I believe he is referring to HSH Prince Michael Pavlovich Ilyinsky, a very fine gentleman with great interest in his family history. Who does post here on occasion.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on March 24, 2011, 08:00:25 AM
(http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/9660/boo243327.jpg) (http://img822.imageshack.us/i/boo243327.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: ashanti01 on March 25, 2011, 11:30:33 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/0_5ff81_b9d4e7d9_L-1.jpg)
GD Paul in costume
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: bestfriendsgirl on March 28, 2011, 02:29:21 PM
the difference from other Grand Dukes of the time was that he didn't let that resentment get in the way of his religious believes and that is why I think that Nicholas was softer with him and his wife, perhaps because they shared that religious sense of duty.

I think something else they shared was the fact they both loved their wives to distraction. A lot of people around Nicholas at the time understood that he did not share Alix's devotion to Rasputin, but could not bear to hurt her by banishing him from the court. I think Grand Duke Paul got that, having given up everything, even guardianship of his children, to be with Olga. This, in turn, made him a little more sympathetic than some of the other grand dukes to Nicholas' position, even if he didn't condone his actions and tried to change his mind. MHO only ...
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: ashdean on March 29, 2011, 10:22:41 AM
Alexandra dressed for court

(http://inlinethumb09.webshots.com/5640/2063437680102753164S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2063437680102753164tsbAxW)


Her daughter Marie Pavlovna describes in her memoirs how she hid this diadem (dismantled) in a ink bottle during the early days of the revolution till all her gems could be smuggled out of Russia with the help of the Swedish embassy.
The pearls must include the necklace which Marie  hung onto  in exile till selling it after all  her other important gems..
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: ashanti01 on March 29, 2011, 10:44:07 AM
ashdean you must have read my mind. I was going to ask if GD Maria inherited her mother's jewelry.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Svetabel on March 29, 2011, 11:44:52 PM
ashdean you must have read my mind. I was going to ask if GD Maria inherited her mother's jewelry.

She did inherite. Though she doesn't detail in her memoirs how many items she got.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: ashanti01 on March 30, 2011, 02:31:29 AM
Is there any records of GD Alexandra's jewels? What she received as wedding gifts or was given to her by GD Paul?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: LisaDavidson on March 31, 2011, 10:32:24 AM
I think Nicholas and Paul's relatiionship was a bit more complex than that. Alexandra really did not do too well with other women in Russia unless they were rather submissive to her, and Olga Paley was smart enough to play that card. Thus, Paul and family were able to spend more time with the Imperial Family than other members of the dynasty. Also, the two men were closer in age - only 6 years apart - than most uncles and cousins. In addition, Nicholas and Alexandra partially raised Paul's two eldest children, and it seems that formed a kind of bond, at least with Paul.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: bestfriendsgirl on April 03, 2011, 12:42:54 PM
I think you're right about the relationship between Paul and Nicholas II, Lisa. I read a post in the Paley thread with a translation of an article about Olga and it sort of implied that Paul and Nicky socialized together some when Paul was between wives and Nicholas was still Tsarevich and they were heavily involved with regimental life. Also - and this is pure speculation on my part - I think family dynamics made them close growing up. Paul was the baby of the AII family. His father took up with Katherine Dolgursky when he was very small, his mother was not well - like a lot of "youngests" in large families, he was probably lost in the shuffle. Nicholas, however, was the first grandchild and the new baby of the family, giving Paul a chance to be the big one and the leader. Nicholas, in turn, thought Uncle Paul a hero and this was good for both of them - MHO only.
I love the photo of Paul with MP ... that's an awfully nipped-looking waist, though. Could he be rocking a corset like big brother Serge was known to do?  ;)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on April 12, 2011, 08:40:13 AM
Gd Pavel and Gdss Alexandra

(http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/200/img016r.jpg) (http://img811.imageshack.us/i/img016r.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Sara Araújo on June 07, 2011, 05:22:27 PM
I've just read that the remais of Grand Duke Paul along with the other Grand Dukes who were murdered with him have just been discovered!
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: aleksandr pavlovich on June 07, 2011, 06:59:04 PM
  Attention Reply #88 and "Sara Araujo" :    I would be most interested in your source of your comments in Reply #88 please, since my recent understanding is that NONE of the bodies undergoing excavation have been POSITIVELY identified as "the remains of Grand Duke Paul, along with the other Grand Dukes."  To date, seven ("mass," I would assume) graves with a total of 110 people have been found. Are you perhaps referring to Paul Gilbert's site? In a VERY recent article there, it is stated that "the remains of some of the Grand Dukes......... MAY (emphasis mine) be among the finds."  This, in turn, was a quote from "The Saint Petersburg Times," June 1, 2011.  
  There is NO doubt that Grand Duke Paul Alexandrovich, along with several other grand dukes were executed within the grounds of the Fortress, but I know of NO such identification of these specific Romanovs being published as yet. Thus I will look forward to your response with your source.                                                                                                                                                                 Regards,  AP.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: bestfriendsgirl on June 07, 2011, 07:27:26 PM
I've just read that the remais of Grand Duke Paul along with the other Grand Dukes who were murdered with him have just been discovered!
I hope they are the remains of Grand Duke Paul, et. al., and that they are given the proper burial that the Imperial Family was given after their remains were positively identified. May they all rest in peace!
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: aleksandr pavlovich on June 07, 2011, 07:35:47 PM
Re Post # 90:     I would certainly agree (and I like your inclusion "....positively identified"), but can you imagine trying to ultimately identify these specific individuals from at least 110 people (and I believe that the search contines for more burials)?  Short of finding some KNOWN personal effects/measurements, etc. with each remain, the ultimate (?) potential of specific identification would be DNA. However, as the article from "The Saint Petersburg Times" says:   "........the officials do not seem particularly interested in the issue," and the museum's project that has been conducting the excavations  "....has been refused financing for the continuation of the work."                                                     Regards,  AP.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Kalafrana on June 08, 2011, 03:29:05 AM
It would be a very good thing if all these 110 individuals were positively identified and buried under their proper names. But there are the inevitable practical difficulties. At least we can hope that they will have a proper funeral service and memorial, even if some remain unidentified.

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: aleksandr pavlovich on June 08, 2011, 07:00:35 AM
Hello, "Kalafrana"!  In reference to the last sentence of your Reply # 92, the article of June 1,2011 from the "St. Petersburg Times" (posted on Paul Gilbert's site) has this as their concluding remark:  "It is eventually planned to erect a memorial plaque on the site of the mass graves."    Best regards,  AP.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Carisbrooke on June 08, 2011, 07:05:04 AM
       "The officials do not seem particularly interested in the issue"  #91

   I agree. Trying to get officialdom interested in any mass grave be it Romanov or not seems to be an ongoing problem. Its as though this is a part of Russian history they would like us all to forget. I am impressed however with the standard of archaeology shown by the amateur archaeologists. It demonstates that even without proper funding great results can be achieved. Perhaps the Grand Dukes remains along with the others can be identified by DNA, but if the interest from the authorities is lacking then I don't see what can be done ?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: LisaDavidson on June 08, 2011, 10:57:22 AM
On May 18, 1968, I dedicated myself to the idea that the bodies of the Imperial Family had not been destroyed as we had been told for the prior 50 years, and that they should have a decent Christian burial consistent with their beliefs as Orthodox Christians. At the time it must have seemed to the adults in my life that this was a strange and impossible dream for a teenager to have, but I've stuck to it for all the years since. I am neither wealthy nor powerful, but I have done everything in my power to make this happen. I have written letters. I have prayed. When I met Bob Atchison many years ago, I decided that being a part of this on-line presence for the Palace and the Family was a great way for someone ordinary like me to continue in my quest.

What I am trying to say is that officials at least in the case of my dream have meant little. It was ordinary people who found the first grave. Ordinary people who found the second. I have great faith in the people of Russia. None of these things will be sorted out fast enough for me, but now that I have added the 4 grand dukes who were shot in 1919 to my prayers, I am confident that at some time, this will all be resolved. Paul has living great grandchildren who are all fine people, and perhaps this will provide some of the resolution.

In other words, if you want this to happen, do more than wish. Hope and pray for the Grand Duke's burial and it might happen, as impossible as that may seem!
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Sara Araújo on June 10, 2011, 02:23:40 AM
 Attention Reply #88 and "Sara Araujo" :    I would be most interested in your source of your comments in Reply #88 please, since my recent understanding is that NONE of the bodies undergoing excavation have been POSITIVELY identified as "the remains of Grand Duke Paul, along with the other Grand Dukes."  To date, seven ("mass," I would assume) graves with a total of 110 people have been found. Are you perhaps referring to Paul Gilbert's site? In a VERY recent article there, it is stated that "the remains of some of the Grand Dukes......... MAY (emphasis mine) be among the finds."  This, in turn, was a quote from "The Saint Petersburg Times," June 1, 2011.  
  There is NO doubt that Grand Duke Paul Alexandrovich, along with several other grand dukes were executed within the grounds of the Fortress, but I know of NO such identification of these specific Romanovs being published as yet. Thus I will look forward to your response with your source.                                                                                                                                                                 Regards,  AP.

I've read it here: http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5g1g2fvm6KKfyFbWGwSgc5_b735UQ?docId=CNG.8f2f301f61aae92c02f30be901dcfd10.1611, but it's in Portuguese, I'll try to translate it shortly. :)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Sara Araújo on June 10, 2011, 03:15:23 AM
Archaeologists believe that they have found the remains of more members of the Imperial Family

Saint Petersburg, Russia – A group of archaeologists believes that they have found the remains of members of the Russian Imperial Family who were executed by the bolcheviques  and buried in common graves that were found accidently at the Peter and Paul Fortress in St. Petersburg.

“Reliable sources have stated that the four Grand Dukes of the Romanov dynasty were killed in 1919 in this fortress. We believe that we have found the remains of Georgi Mikhailovich, Nikolai Mikhailovich, Dmitri Konstantinovich and Pavel Alexandrovich”, said Vladimir Kildiushevski, the responsible archaeologist for the excavations.

The remains of hundreds of other people shot by the communists had already been found at the same spot on other occasion.

Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovich Romanov was the uncle of the last Russian Tsar, Nicholas III, killed in the Urals by the Bolsheviks in 1918 along with his family. The other three victims were his cousins, grandchildren of Tsar Nicholas I.

The four Grand Dukes were killed in 1919 in the Peter and Paul Fortress, at the heart of the old capital of the Russian Empire, but the exact location of their graves had never been found.
The Bolsheviks killed countless people in the fortress, situated in the banks of the Neva River. It is there that all the Tsars from Peter, The Great onwards are buried.

Almost a century later, the accidental discovery of the remains during the restoration works in 2007 inspired new excavations.

Archeologists found six common graves which date back to 1917-1919 with the remains of hundreds of people, including young people of about 16-years-old at the time of their deaths.

“All the victims were murdered with a single shot to the head and the bodies were piled in common graves,” explained Vladimir Kildiushevski.

“Some skulls have distinct marks, as if they had received a blow with the butt of a gun,” he added.

The archeologist showed some objects found among the remains: glasses, a golden cross, cigarette cases, notebooks, pieces of clothing, a hat and a well-preserved shoe.

“They threw the older people, the civilians, to some graves and the younger people, of about 20 and 30 who were cadets at military schools, to others,” told the archeologist.
The deaths occurred during the “Red Terror” period, trigged by the Cheka and the army during the civil war of 1918-1923.

During these years, thousands of “enemies” – nobility, bourgeoisie, employers, priests, strikers and peasants – were killed in Russia.

“We are exterminating the bourgeoisie as a social class. Do not search for evidence that a defendant has acted against the soviet power with actions or words. The question that must be done is to which social class they belong. This question will determine their fate. This is the meaning of the red terror”, Martin Latsis, one of the heads of the Cheka, wrote in 1918.
It was Latsis who decided the death of the four Romanovs executed in Petrograd (the name given to St. Petersburg between 1914 and 1924 before it was renamed Leningrad from 1924 to 1991).

“We are now trying to determine exactly who was killed here and we intend to continue with the investigations. It is very likely that there are more remains,” said Kildiushevski, adding that he was sorry that the excavations – which are being carried out by the St. Petersburg Museum of History – were suspended due to the lack of funding.

[/i]
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: aleksandr pavlovich on June 10, 2011, 06:34:20 AM
 Attention:  Reply #97 and "Sara Araujo":    Thank you for your reply with translation!  I'm not certain what is exactly your source (Portuguese newspaper/magazine, television report, etc. (?) ) and date.  The important thing is to note that your entire quoted article rests on the word "BELIEVE. "   Examples: " A group of archaeologists BELIEVES (emphasis mine) that they have found the remains of members of the Russian Imperial Family......."   The same tenor continues:   "We BELIEVE that we have found the remains of Georgi Mikhailovich, etc....."  And most importantly this:  " We are now trying to determine exactly who was killed here....."
   Please note:  NOWHERE does your quoted source say that the Grand Dukes have been POSITIVELY identified as a group or even separately !  Until then, it is incorrect to say that they HAVE been found.  There is NO proof of such at this moment.
   Again, I have NO doubt that the Grand Dukes were executed on the grounds of the fortress.  The last time I was there at the fortress, I brought my son and pointed out upon approaching an entrance gate:  "Many people passed through this gate, never to return."
  Thank you for your attempt/reply, however.                                                Regards,  AP.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on June 15, 2011, 08:29:58 AM
Pavel

(http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/315/sdmcpsdjcp.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: bestfriendsgirl on July 14, 2011, 10:30:09 AM

Alexandra suffered from complications during her second pregnancy - I believe it was eclampsia. I don't know why she didn't have better prenatal care, as pre-eclampsia is a known complication and is treated with bed rest. This could have saved her and in saving her, could have spared her family much grief.

The reason of her eclampsia were weak heart and kidneys, and this fact was discovered only after her death and autopsy.

Didn't Marie Pavlovna have issues with her kidneys too, as an adult?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Svetabel on July 14, 2011, 01:21:43 PM

Alexandra suffered from complications during her second pregnancy - I believe it was eclampsia. I don't know why she didn't have better prenatal care, as pre-eclampsia is a known complication and is treated with bed rest. This could have saved her and in saving her, could have spared her family much grief.

The reason of her eclampsia were weak heart and kidneys, and this fact was discovered only after her death and autopsy.

Didn't Marie Pavlovna have issues with her kidneys too, as an adult?

Actually her kidneys were in a good state, that was Axel Munthe who tried to persuade Maria in her 'bad' kidneys. Other doctors didn't confirm Munthe's diagnosis.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: bestfriendsgirl on October 03, 2011, 12:30:59 PM
Happy 151st Birthday Grand Duke Paul Alexandrovich!  :)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: RealAnastasia on October 03, 2011, 05:55:32 PM
He seems younger than his 151!  ::)

RealAnastasia.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Vecchiolarry on October 03, 2011, 06:20:08 PM
Hi,

Somehow 1860 seems like yesterday and 1960 seems so long ago - go figure!!!

I guess that proves the old axiom that all time is just relative!!!!!

Larry
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Svetabel on November 28, 2011, 01:52:16 PM
GDss Alexandra with her mother,Queen Olga

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Rarefind/alixolg1a.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Laura_ on November 29, 2011, 11:03:31 AM
GDss Alexandra with her mother,Queen Olga

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Rarefind/alixolg1a.jpg


That is a very beautiful mother & daughter image. The resemblance is striking. Both of them had very beautiful, tender eyes. It is what I like most about them. : )
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Svetabel on November 30, 2011, 05:28:52 AM
GDss Alexandra with her mother,Queen Olga

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Rarefind/alixolg1a.jpg


That is a very beautiful mother & daughter image. The resemblance is striking. Both of them had very beautiful, tender eyes. It is what I like most about them. : )

Yes, both had tender eyes, though for me Queen Olga looked more not of this world.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Rarefind/alix1.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Forum Admin on November 30, 2011, 09:06:38 AM
We recently acquired a book from GD Alexandra Georgievna's personal library, with her cypher embossed in gold on the cover. A Greek religious tract, written in French.

Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Svetabel on November 30, 2011, 02:08:38 PM
GDss Alexandra with her daughter Maria, and mother.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Rarefind/olgalaimarie.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: bestfriendsgirl on December 01, 2011, 08:35:45 AM
Poor Maria - I really think she suffered most from Alexandra G.'s death. She needed a mother and Ella, as good a person as she was, just couldn't have that kind of relationship with her. She probably would have been better off with GD Paul and Princess Paley in France.
 
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Svetabel on December 05, 2011, 02:01:49 PM
A bit larger version of Alexandra G. with GDss Elizaveta Fedorovna

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Rarefind/vlcsnap-2011-12-01-22h32m13s229.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: bestfriendsgirl on December 06, 2011, 07:15:32 AM
Thanks - it's a great photo and such darling outfits!  :)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: rachel5a on January 03, 2012, 09:37:12 AM

Alexandra was buried in the Fortress of S.Peter and S. Paul in St. Petersbug. In 1940, King George of Grece contracted the promess he had done to his grand mother  Queen Olga, and Alexandra was reburied in Greece, in Tatoi, as her mother wanted. Queen Olga didn´t want that her loved daughter stayed in Russia, the country where so many members of her family were assesinated.







Did her children GD Maria and GD Dmitri attend this ceremony in 1940 (or was it 1939?).
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Rodney_G. on January 03, 2012, 10:35:30 AM


Did her children GD Maria and GD Dmitri attend this ceremony in 1940 (or was it 1939?).
[/quote]

It's good that the reburial took place when it did because within a year (1941) both Greece and Russia would be at war and a transfer of a coffin would have been impossible for them to arrange.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Svetabel on January 17, 2012, 05:30:18 AM
Alexandra in 1891.Peterhof.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Rarefind/alix1891.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Svetabel on January 17, 2012, 05:31:07 AM
Newly-engaged couple Pavel and Alexandra with her mother.1888 year.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Rarefind/1888engage.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Sara Araújo on January 25, 2012, 09:31:55 AM
I've been reading Alex Voklov's memoirs right here, at the Alexander Time Machine, and I came across a very interesting information, which I'd never heard before:

"In the autumn of that same year, 1894, Grand Duke Paul was to go to England, accompanied by Grand Duke Serge Alexandrovich. The reason for the voyage was the arranged marriage of Grand Duke Paul to one of the English Royal Princesses. (...) As I already said, the reason for the journey to England was the eventual marriage of Grand Duke Paul to one of the English princesses. However, that plan was never realized; the Grand Duke and the Princess, it was said, were not able to find "mutual affinity in their characters." We returned to Petersburg at the beginning of autumn.

Does anyone know who this Princess was?
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Kalafrana on January 25, 2012, 09:47:00 AM
Two possibilities in terms of age and unmarried state were Victoria of Wales (born 1868) and Helena Victoria of Schleswig-Holstein (born 1870) neither of whom ever married. Victoria's sister Maud may also have been a possibility, as she didn't marry until July 1896.

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Kalafrana on January 25, 2012, 10:33:06 AM
Just to add that Helena Victoria was not an 'English royal princess' (before someone else pulls me up!), but Volkov may not have appreciated that.

All the other royal ladies I can think of who could be called English were either too young (the Connaught girls and Alice of Albany, and probably Alexandra and Beatrice of Edinburgh) or already married.

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Marc on January 25, 2012, 01:00:19 PM
Just to add that Helena Victoria was not an 'English royal princess' (before someone else pulls me up!), but Volkov may not have appreciated that.

Yes,she was German Princess living in England,just like Victoria Eugenia von Battenberg...
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: bestfriendsgirl on January 28, 2012, 09:53:05 AM
Two possibilities in terms of age and unmarried state were Victoria of Wales (born 1868) and Helena Victoria of Schleswig-Holstein (born 1870) neither of whom ever married. Victoria's sister Maud may also have been a possibility, as she didn't marry until July 1896.

Ann

I always figured it was Victoria - she was known for being "difficult," although whether she was that way to begin with or became that way because of being her mother's companion I don't know. She was Nicholas II's first crush, but they were first cousins and it cooled into friendship eventually anyway, especially as he became more aware of Alix.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: bestfriendsgirl on January 28, 2012, 09:56:08 AM
An album of GD Pavel's family.

http://photoarchive.spb.ru:9090/www/showChildObjects.do?object=2517964993&viewMode=H_100747620&language=2 (http://photoarchive.spb.ru:9090/www/showChildObjects.do?object=2517964993&viewMode=H_100747620&language=2)

WOW !!! These are great, and the vast majority of them are new to me! Do you think Olga may be pregnant with Vladimir in the full-length one on the first page? She certainly looks it and it was taken in St. Petersburg - the two girls were born in France after they were exiled.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Kalafrana on January 29, 2012, 12:28:43 PM
How could I have forgotten that the Coburg girls were Pavel's nieces?

So the only possibilities were Victoria, Maud and Helena Victoria. Everybody else in England was too old, too young or already married.

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: bestfriendsgirl on January 29, 2012, 03:15:13 PM
How could I have forgotten that the Coburg girls were Pavel's nieces?

Very easily! You need a scorecard to keep up with this family!  ;)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Clemence on October 16, 2012, 01:24:38 PM
Was she not beside her mother in the Tuxen painting of the Danish Royal Family?

http://dkks.dk/christian-ix-and-his-family-1886 (http://dkks.dk/christian-ix-and-his-family-1886)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: grandduchessella on October 16, 2012, 02:44:52 PM
Yes, that was her. I think there is a thread somewhere on the Forum (a search might bring it up) that gives the identification for the persons in both this Tuxen painting and his painting of Queen Victoria's Jubilee family gathering.
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on October 11, 2013, 04:07:28 PM
Hi!!

I have a doubt about Gd Pavel s birth date. In the almanach of Gotha online says he was born in october 11 of 1860,

http://www.angelfire.com/realm/gotha/gotha/russia.html


but in wikipedia and other webpages says he was born in october 3 and September 21 in the Jullan calendar.

I d like to know what s the right birth date.

Thanks in advanced!!!
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Ally Kumari on January 28, 2015, 03:13:23 AM
(http://i12.beon.ru/95/70/457095/68/43668868/eb18148e.jpeg)

Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Maria Sisi on July 15, 2015, 09:55:07 PM
Adorable photo of Pavel and Sergei as boys
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-qckoiB--G_g/U7mLL0pklAI/AAAAAAAAGGU/3hQkgECXexc/s1600/595e4abda31c6c6a19c9b8c7562290ce.png)

Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Ally Kumari on January 30, 2016, 02:04:26 AM
(http://40.media.tumblr.com/4598c85c8aaab63f7adc5be40b8d6019/tumblr_nzzdtdBUCR1rh07xwo1_1280.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: Ally Kumari on March 04, 2017, 02:41:51 AM
Alexandra

(https://pp.userapi.com/c639619/v639619079/9ff0/b9fcKF8zRqY.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovitch,his 1st wife Alexandra & their family
Post by: LisaDavidson on March 12, 2017, 12:09:44 AM
Carolath Hapsberg - the birthdate from Wikipedia was actually sourced back to the biography of Grand Duke Paul written by Dr. William Lee and me for the book "The Grand Dukes" published in 2010. The date we used was 21 September 1860 old style and 3 October 1860. I'm away from home so don't have either my notes or the book to provide you with our source.