Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => Grand Duchess Elizabeth Feodorovna => Topic started by: Grand_Duke_Alexei on October 20, 2004, 08:19:55 PM

Title: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Grand_Duke_Alexei on October 20, 2004, 08:19:55 PM
I am currently reading the book, "The Life and Tragedy of Alexandra Feodorovna", by the Baroness Sophie Buxhoeveden, which is a really great book.  But I came across something odd in the book.  A chapter of the book titled "Childhood, 1879-1888", and this was written:

"The elder Princesses were fast growing into womanhood.  Princess Victoria and Princess Elizabeth (Ella) came out in 1881, but Princess Alix only heard echoes of their gay doings."

I think that when it says that they came out in 1881, that it is referring to their coming of age ball.  But with the use of the words, "...echoes of their gay doings", I began to wonder.  I have never heard of either of them to be gay.  Does anyone know what they mean by this and/or what years their coming of age balls where?
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Merrique on October 20, 2004, 08:31:41 PM
Quote
"The elder Princesses were fast growing into womanhood.  Princess Victoria and Princess Elizabeth (Ella) came out in 1881, but Princess Alix only heard echoes of their gay doings."



I believe the use of the word gay in that sentence is supposed to mean happy,not homosexual. ;D
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: ashanti01 on October 20, 2004, 08:35:36 PM
Gay was used to express happy, only until recently ( last 30-40 years) has it been used towards homesexuals
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Olga on October 21, 2004, 06:47:13 AM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/Praskovia/Romanov/1889gown.jpg)
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Grand_Duke_Alexei on October 21, 2004, 07:39:33 AM
Okay, that is what I thought that it had meant.  The usage of words in the book confused me.  And that is a really great picture Olga.
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: TampaBay on June 03, 2005, 12:12:33 PM
Which sister was Ella closest to?

I know from reading VMH's letters/correspondence  that Ella & Serge wanted Alix in Russia.

TampaBay
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: bluetoria on June 03, 2005, 12:44:04 PM
Quote
Which sister was Ella closest to?


Victoria, I'm sure. They were closest in age & shared a bedroom as children. Princess Alice's leterrs often describe their closeness to one another.  :)
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: pinklady on June 03, 2005, 07:43:52 PM
Does anybody have that photo of Ella and Victoria standing either side of their mother? It is a lovely one of all 3 of them, I dont think I have seen it on the boards.
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: grandduchessella on June 03, 2005, 09:44:28 PM
I think it's on here somewhere but

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/princesspat/germany/Princess20Alice20with20Ellla20left202620Victoria.jpg)
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: grandduchessella on June 03, 2005, 09:45:32 PM
I have to agree with BT--Ella and Victoria were the closest. They were the Big Pair to Irene & Alix's Little Pair. You see photos of Victoria visiting Ella and Irene visiting Alix but not really vice-versa.
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Lanie on June 04, 2005, 12:53:01 AM
Isn't that picture, that is supposedly of Ella and Alice and Victoria, of Irene and Alice and Victoria?  "Ella" doesn't look much like herself...!
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: pinklady on June 04, 2005, 04:08:40 AM
Thanks for posting that beautiful photo!
And yes, I had never thought about it before, but now that I look at it "Ella " looks a lot like Irene!
I have always seen and read it identified as "Ella".
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: bluetoria on June 04, 2005, 06:05:59 AM
Oh, I think it's Ella.  :)
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: grandduchessella on June 04, 2005, 12:32:04 PM
It's Ella--Irene would've been much younger in comparison to Victoria.
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: bell_the_cat on November 08, 2006, 05:41:27 PM
Does anyone know about what date Alexandra and Ella began to drift apart?

My own view.. for what it's worth... they were never really close! They really drifted apart during the early years of Nicholas' reign. Nicholas and Alexandra never really understood Ella's vocation - in fact they were quite sceptical about it. The difference of opinion over Rasputin was a symptom of this distance between the sisters, not a cause. When Ella went to Alix in 1916 to "talk about it" it was already much too late, which was why she was shown the door.
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: imperial angel on November 08, 2006, 05:48:41 PM
Interesting.. I had not thought of that. I think they were different personalities, and maybe I can see that Ella's uncoventional life, although very good, might not have been understood by Alexandra, as it was not by some people.This is understandable, etc. Alexandra and Ella might have drifted apart earlier, but I always thought that the Rasputin thing was the big break, after which they never got along, and that was unfortunate. But, it might have been the symptom, not the cause, that's an interesting theory.
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: lori_c on November 09, 2006, 08:58:25 AM
I had always thought it was after the birth of Alexei.  This wasn't too long before the death of Sergei.  This  all coincided w/Ella's drift toward a more spiritual life leaving society behind and her subsequent taking of Holy Orders.  Then enter Rasputin. 

The more insular Alexandra felt she had to become because of the illness of Alexei and Rasputin's presence, the more they drifted apart. (Though, to be fair, Ella was always concerned about her sister and she shared a good relationship w/the Tsar.)  I feel though that the extreme stress that Alix was under caused her to feel that even her own sister was siding with her "Moscow clique" against her.  Even though Ella's concern was for the family's position, Alix didn't see it that way and the sisters never saw each other again after Ella went in 1916  and "was shown the door".

I agree that they were different personalities but that Ella probably made every effort to understand her sister.  Especially since she was partly responsible for bringing her to Russia in the first place.  But they were alike in the respect that when they set their mind, it couldn't be changed.
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: imperial angel on November 09, 2006, 10:43:18 AM
Yes, I am sure that Ella did make every effort to understand her sister, yes. Ella was understanding, but Alexandra could be more set in her ways than Ella and hard to understand. Alexandra was under much stress then, and you are right, she would not listen. She would especially not listen about Rasputin, etc. Ella's concern was correct, and I am sure she made every effort to be tactful, but she obviously felt something needed to be done.
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: lori_c on November 09, 2006, 11:14:08 AM
Yes. I agree.  Alexandra was more stubborn and wasn't always as maybe tactful as Ella.  Alexandra could be much more blunt.  If she didn't like you, you would be sure to know. 

Ella, i feel always had a modicum of forgiveness and mercy towards people.  Even before she became a nun.  And, she never held it against Alix that they had a disagreement - but Alix did.  Ella tried to telegram them after they were put under house arrest in the AP but it was returned.  Not by the captors either.

Ella never gave up though, sending chocolate and coffee to the family in Ekaterinburg.  From Alix's diaries, I think she realized that by that time any fighting or bad feelings should be forgotten even though the sisters never got to correspond after their "disagreement".
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: imperial angel on November 09, 2006, 11:42:19 AM
It is interesting that even under house arrest in the AP, that she still would not have anything to do with Ella. It was not just a disagreement, but rather in the category of a rather deep estrangement, and Alexandra was a good person, but could be unforgiving. Her sister had had the best intentions, and she always had. Adversity never brought them together, although maybe it did in spirit, as you say. It would be interesting to know- Ella would have been there had Alexandra chosen to forgive.
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: lori_c on November 09, 2006, 12:42:19 PM
Alix definitely held a grudge.  Several.   She was a good person though in my opinion.  Just somebody under tremendous pressure and facing extreme adversity within a family that should have been more supportive.  It's unfortunate that She looked at Ella as just one more family member turning against her.  She was also fiercely protective of Rasputin.  So any mention of him definitely would not have just been any old disagreement.  It as you said was a fracture of their relationship.
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: imperial angel on November 10, 2006, 08:48:32 AM
Yes, their relationship was defintely over in this argument.  It is very sad, because they really had much in common, and much to offer one another when they understood each other. But, Alexandra often behaved like this with people, perhaps not realizing that it's more important to be connected with people, even though it is easy to disagree, indeed. She was under pressure, and any attempt to understand her must include this.
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Eddie_uk on February 14, 2007, 12:32:32 PM
Vicky had good sense and saw Alicky was ambitious and proud even before she was married to Nicholas (that proved to be the case). I think she got along with the sensible ones (VMH & Irene) better than the pretty ones (Ella & Alicky). I also believe that her dislike of Ella was one of the reasons that prevented Willy to propose to Ella (She still have some influence with him at that period). So I found the lack of closeness between Sophie & Alicky understanable (although both went through the change in religion).  ???

How do we know Vicky disliked Ella and Alicky? I know she preferred the looks of Toria and Maud but thats not to say she disliked Ella and Alicky.

Alicky does not strike me as particularly ambitious either. Nicky spent years woeing her. Correct me if I am wrong but I don't think she became proud until she became Empress. Before that she strikes me as reserved and shy in character.
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: lori_c on February 14, 2007, 12:35:53 PM
Dislike might be a little strong.  It is known she preferred her Edinburg/Coburg nieces over her Hessian ones.  But she dearly loved her sister Alice and took an interest in her children especially after Alice's death.  But as in all big families, there are always favoritism.
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 14, 2007, 09:53:58 PM
I do not think that Vicky like Alicky much. She had accurately predicted that she would be politically ambitious once she became empress. Also she felt that her niece was cold and proud and not very endearing. Vicky prefered the naturalness of her Wales and Edinburgh nieces much more, although I don't think she had any problems with VMH or Irene.  ;)
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Eddie_uk on February 15, 2007, 12:09:52 PM
Well what about Ella Eric? Why do you think Vicky disliked her?? :)
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: lori_c on February 15, 2007, 12:36:48 PM
Vicky did definitely NOT have too nice of things to say about Ella (and Alix).  It seems those two sisters in particular.  Although, she was extremely against Irene marrying her son.  I think it was because it took place behind her back???? somebody help me with this ???
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Eddie_uk on February 15, 2007, 02:00:44 PM
Hmm, we need some reliability here, far to many ungrounded accusations.  ???

Vicky was very fond of the sensible Irene and I don't believe she was against Irene marrying Henry. Far from it, correct me if I am wrong, but I think Vicky believed Irene would be a stabilising influence on Henry, which she was. Irene brought Henry and Vicky closer. Prior to this Henry, together with his brother Wilhelm and sister Charlotte, formed an alliance agaisnt his parents' policy and opinions.

What EXACTLY did Vicky say about Ella which leads us to believe she disliked her??

:)
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: lori_c on February 15, 2007, 02:22:25 PM
You are absolutely correct.  I looked up in Charlotte Zeepvat's Queen Victoriia's descendants and it was QUEEN VICTORIA who was against it because it took place without her knowlege.

Thanks for correcting me. ;)
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Eddie_uk on February 15, 2007, 02:29:48 PM
Your welcome :)

Yes you are right it was QV, she wrote to VMH that Irene went behind her back and broke her promise. David Duff write about it in Hessian Tapestry.  :)
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: grandduchessella on February 15, 2007, 04:56:09 PM
QV to VMH:

Feb 2 1887: 'It is impossible for me to tell you waht a shock your letter gave me! Indeed I felt quite ill--for I am so deeply hurt at Irene's condut towards me wh. is neither kind grateful or straightforward. I spoke to her on the subject not long before she left, & said I don't say it is never be, only don't bind yourself before he goes away on a long voyage--but say you cannot as yet give a promise. And she assured me again & again that she wld never do that!...The least she cld have done wld be to telegraph at once to me: 'Henry is coming after all'. But to learn it from the papers 1st, is too much....I am very fond of Henry, but he has behaved very badly abt Sandro & Liko too--& says very improper things to his Mother. You say you feel sure I will rejoice at her happiness. But that is just what I do not feel sure of. Henry is not at all strong, the Empress hates all connected with your family NOW. Dear Mama did not wish such a marriage for any of you, as little as a Russian one, & her wishes have been totally disregarded...I had other hopes & wishes for Irene but my wishes & hopes seem never to be fulfilled so it is useless for me to look forward any more.--I see the advantages wh. possibly may be derived from this union; the very fact that Henry will become the Brother-in-Law of Ludwig who is Brother to Sandro--must have a good influence. I remember now that in speaking to Sandro abt. it & saying how I disliked the idea, he seemed rather to favour it....I will write to Irene myself--when I have recd. her 2nd letter. I shall tell her just the same--It reminds me of Ella's & Serge's marriage (wh. I grieve over as much as ever) & that you were made to announce it to me as (I suspect) no one else liked to do it, just after she had declared she wld not accept him!!....I darely hope for better things for lovely Alicky tho' I still have lingering hopes left there!...Papa & you shld. never have left them together & I fear she was driven into a corner.
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: lori_c on February 15, 2007, 06:12:57 PM
Hessian Tapestry is the ONE book I would love to have and unfortunately is $150 on amazon.  But I'm saving up!

Thank you both for the clarification. :)
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 15, 2007, 07:40:50 PM
Yes...That IS the book to be hard. Wow ! 150 USD ! I bought mine years ago...luckily.
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: grandduchessella on February 15, 2007, 07:52:47 PM
That is pricey. This was one of my favorite books on any royal. I looked for it for years until the internet made it possible to find it. It was about $50 then.

Abebooks has it for $80 but that's still not cheap. Still, it's just a little more than half of what amazon quotes.

Actually, I did a quick look at here:

http://www.booksandcollectibles.com.au/addall.php?book_id=127157823

it's less than $30.
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 15, 2007, 07:55:08 PM
I think it will go up as the original print becomes rarer.  ::)
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: lori_c on February 16, 2007, 10:59:39 AM
That is pricey. This was one of my favorite books on any royal. I looked for it for years until the internet made it possible to find it. It was about $50 then.

Abebooks has it for $80 but that's still not cheap. Still, it's just a little more than half of what amazon quotes.

Actually, I did a quick look at here:

http://www.booksandcollectibles.com.au/addall.php?book_id=127157823

it's less than $30
.

THANKS!!
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Olishka~ Pincess on February 17, 2007, 07:14:22 AM
Alix and Ella pictures they look so pretty in these.

(http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/6641/alix6ai4.th.jpg) (http://img296.imageshack.us/my.php?image=alix6ai4.jpg)

1877
(http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/9913/alickyernieandmayfm0.th.jpg) (http://img296.imageshack.us/my.php?image=alickyernieandmayfm0.jpg)


(http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/2362/ellar3vk7.th.jpg) (http://img68.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ellar3vk7.jpg)

(http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/6155/alix22un8.th.jpg) (http://img62.imageshack.us/my.php?image=alix22un8.jpg)

1894
(http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/4861/alixprettyxa5.th.jpg) (http://img206.imageshack.us/my.php?image=alixprettyxa5.jpg)

(http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/7867/alickywithsistersellaanyu9.th.jpg) (http://img206.imageshack.us/my.php?image=alickywithsistersellaanyu9.jpg)



Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 19, 2007, 08:16:12 AM
Thanks for sharing, but they have seen so many times.  ???
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Eddie_uk on February 19, 2007, 11:34:20 AM
You may have done Eric but not everyone else. Please consider that.  Thank you.
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: imperial angel on February 19, 2007, 03:58:12 PM
It's always nice to see photos of Ella, a bit repetitive or not. But, it truly is a pity that there are not better sources to find more unusual photos of Ella, who was just as good looking if not more so than the last Romanovs, but who is always under represented in photo collections. One reason might be that perhaps because Ella seems to have been less into amateur photography than her sister and family, as there aren't as many informal images of her? Most images tend to be pretty formal, although very lovely. Another might be after 1905 there was no longer much occasion for there to be as many photos of her given her religious role and life? Does anyone know for sure about Ella and amateur photography?
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: grandduchessella on February 19, 2007, 05:48:48 PM
Well, she's only become a figure of renewed interest relatively recently--with 3 new bios in the last few years (Mager, Croft and Warwick) and a role in Charlotte Zeepvatt's family albums and others such as Romanovs Revisited--so there might not have been reason to put out new, less common photos, both posed and informal. I wish these books had more of those kind but they have unearthed some. In terms of informal photos, there's a very casual picture of Ella in a pond (?) in the Warwick bio and Queen Victoria's Family (Zeepvatt) has some informal family photos taken after Ella was in the convent, visiting her siblings at Hemmelmark for instance. More and more of these photos are coming to light as she becomes a more recognizable figure to modern audiences. Going back to contemporary magazines and newspapers often provide some of the best photos as, given her position as Queen Victoria's granddaughter, she was covered in the British magazines, as a Hessian princess, in the German ones, and as a Romanov (and wife of the Governor of Moscow) in the Russian ones. She was also covered somewhat in the French press, perhaps because she was so lovely and fashionable.  ;) Even the American magazines picked up some stories--perhaps reflecting the interest in monarchies that existed even in a republic. So, at the time, there was a good supply of photos (formal and informal) but as she faded from public consciousness--except as a appendage to her sister--it seems that the reliance was on a rather limited group of stock photos--Ella in her gown and kokoshnik, Ella in her nun's robes, etc...and as a face peeking out of group photos, such as the famous Coburg wedding series. As she comes into her own, hopefully the resources that are bound to exist at the Royal Archives, Hesse Archives, etc...will be tapped more and more.
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Olishka~ Pincess on February 19, 2007, 06:04:24 PM
 If you known some books about Ella can you please let me known. Please list them. I want to read a book about Ella so bad. There are probaly some photo albums of her in books in different langauges other than English. I am sure there are lots more photos of Ella not displayed in the public probaly at colleges and universities displays or even museums or Romanov archives. I sure they would be located in either one of those places. :)
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: grandduchessella on February 19, 2007, 06:11:57 PM
I listed three books above--the most recent is the biography by Christopher Warwick. Also biographies by Christina Croft and Hugo Mager. Lubov Millar wrote one that focuses more on Ella's religious life. E.M. Almedingen wrote one in the 1960s (?) called An Unbroken Unity. She was covered in David Duff's Hessian Tapestry. There are photos of her in various Romanov albums like Love, Power and Tragedy, Romanovs Revisited and Camera and the Tsars.
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Olishka~ Pincess on February 19, 2007, 06:45:59 PM
 Thanks grandduchessella  :)
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: imperial angel on February 20, 2007, 09:01:37 AM
Thanks for the info on Ella and the photos! I agree. Does anyone have any theories on why she has tended to be overlooked until recently when she really is naturally such a standout figure? This is in opposition to Alexandra, who of course hasn't been overlooked because she was the last Czarina, but still it is not like Ella was not important..
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 20, 2007, 07:59:33 PM
Not really...Ella was always a person of interest even in bio's of Sandro, Missy and of course Felix Yussopov. However not much was known about her. The first book that tackle her life was "An Unbroken Unity". That book had the assistance of Ella's niece Queen Louise of Sweden (who had known her Aunt intimately through her travels with her mother VMH in Russia).

As for the pics, I did thank her for sharing, but they HAVE been seen quite a lot (which is a fact that cannot be disputed). One of them even made the cover of the Mager book. Indeed I think there are a lot of pics still waiting to be discovered in Russia.  ;)
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: lori_c on February 27, 2007, 03:50:32 PM
More than likely, IMO, most of the early bios and books concentrated on the family living in St. Petersburg.  Since Ella was in Moscow and she had more than just physically distanced herself from the Court.  People were much more interested in intrigues and Ella didn't want to be a part of that world even before her vocation.
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 27, 2007, 08:12:01 PM
However...Ella was human enough to like to listen to court gossip and amused by it (when she was young of course). Minny wrote in her letter to son Nicky that Ella was dishing some dirt on Marva, as she was too proud of taking over her duties since Ella & Serge are going to Moscow.  ;)
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: imperial angel on February 28, 2007, 10:39:27 AM
Yes those reasons sound accurate. I agree Ella did not like to be around intrigues and stuff like that, she wasn't really one for court life. She could put up with that world as she tried to, and could do a pretty good job at fitting in, unlike her sister, Alexandra. But, neither she nor Alexandra liked intrigues or court life all that much, they chose to live apart from that, or perhaps fate made the choice for them like with Ella and Moscow. Alexandra certainly chose to live apart from things like that at Tsarskoe Selo, though. Ella would have made that choice as well, most likely, if it hadn't just happened that way.
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 28, 2007, 07:26:27 PM
Yes. Ella loved the nices of court life. Balls and dancing were her favourites (where like an actress she gets to plan her wardrobe and her jewels) as well as visits to varies cousins for tea and countryside excurtions. She may have liked to gossiop a bit with the likes of Minny and Zenaide Yussopov. However I don't think she was as involved with court intrigues like Michen (even though Ella did manage to get along with her too for a long while). Yet, once Ella discovered religion, she began to fade out from the party scene.
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: lori_c on March 01, 2007, 09:43:48 AM
Very true.  But she wasn't part of the St. Petersburg scene as much as the Moscow one.  Maybe in the very beginning when she was first married.  She still was a very prominent Romanov but in a different sense than the Empress or Meichen.
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 01, 2007, 07:38:44 PM
Indeed ! It gave her more freedom to do as she pleases (unlike Minny, Michen & Alicky).  ::)
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Eric_Lowe on April 09, 2007, 08:27:25 PM
A nice cabinet card of VMH.  ;)
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Olishka~ Pincess on April 12, 2007, 03:41:13 AM
I love that first photo on reply 3 of Alix she looks pretty I love thst picture very much Alix has nice flowers on her head and a pearl neckless thats wonderful. :) Ella with Alix are both lovely together in pictures. :)
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Eric_Lowe on April 16, 2007, 12:12:48 PM
That was Alicky's coming out ball. Another was taken with Ella that same nite.  ;)
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: griffh on April 18, 2007, 05:03:52 PM
Forgive me for my rather lengthy post but I can’t help feeling from reading the new biographies on Ella, especially Warwick’s current book, “Ella, Princess, Saint and Martyr,” that Ella was really very close to the young Emperor and Empress from 1894 to about 1899.  From Warwick’s book it appears that Ella who helped dress Alix on her marriage day in November of 1894 stayed on in St. Petersburg after the wedding and then often returned to St. Petersburg during the next year or so to attend to the redecoration of the suite of rooms the young Emperor and Empress were to live in after their sojourn with the Empress Dowager at Anichkov Palace.  From what Warwick’s research has turned up, it appears that Ella actively involved in the re-decoration of the Winter Palace apartment of the young Emperor and Empress and that she actually helped choose the suite of rooms for the Imperial couple.  From what Ella writes to her brother Ernie, it appears that the apartments reflected some of the Art Nouveau style so chic and modern in the 1890’s. 

Even though the quote from Warwick’s book is rather long I think it is worth while reproducing:

“‘Such was Ella’s happiness at finally having her sister in Russia, that ever the homemaker, she readily took on the job of supervising the decoration of Nicky and Alix’s private rooms at the Winter Palace.  ‘We went with Alix to see Ella,’ Nicky noted in his diary for 3 December, ‘we looked at several details of decoration for our rooms.’  It had originally been suggested that the Emperor and his new wife might take over his parents’ suite on the second floor, but Nicky had never lived there and Ella helped to select an alternative suite of fourteen rooms on the first or main floor of the north-western wing, overlooking the Neva, Palace Bridge and the islands on the opposite side of the great river.  While work progressed over the next year, Ella made frequent trips from Moscow, working closely with and approving the plans of the architect Alexander Feodorovich Krasovsky who, quite apart form being the chief architect at the Winter Palace, was famous for having designed many buildings in St. Petersburg itself.

“‘Like Krasovsky, N.N. Nabokov, who had been responsible for the interiors of the imperial yacht Polar Star and the imperial train, and who was now tasked with furnishing the Emperor’s new apartments, submitted draft sketches to Ella who, in consultation with Nicky and Alix, then made changes and alterations of her own to them.  With Ella’s assistance, the Emperor and Empress selected Japanese, Chinese and Indian items from the imperial collection and, as Nicky noted in his diary on one occasion, chose ‘patterns for materials, chintzes and carpets for our rooms…’

“‘To Ernie, whose own love of art and design would lead him to establish the famous and influential Jugenstil (Art Nouveau) Movement in Darmstadt, Ella wrote in November 1894, telling him what she had been doing at the Winter Palace or “Winterpalace’ as she always wrote it.  ‘I am busily arranging plans…for [Nicky and Alix’s] rooms which would have been vile from all the designs sent,’ she said.  ‘I draw coloured sketches & then an architect will copy them correctly[;] it seems to me you will be satisfied with my task & when ready I shall send you little sketches asking you to give me some more ideas[;] in large all is decided but there are details where you can help me immensely.  IF possible all will be bought & ordered in Russia except the chintz you can get everything here only there is such a want of taste so that I must draw every detail myself all I wqant to be pretty even the door handles.  I am delighted Nicky & Alix let me do it all…I am working the whole day if not running about in the Winterpalace or museums I am looking over books stuffs wood tyles [sic] chintz it is great fun but hard work…’
 

“‘On 30 December 1895, all was ready and Nicky and Alix finally took up residence in their new apartments.  ‘Prayers,’ as the Emperor recorded in his diary, ‘were said in the library and all the rooms…were sprinkled with holy water.’  For the next ten years, Nicholas and Alexandra would spend the winter and spring months at the Winter Palace, while summers would be passed at their beloved Alexander Palace at Tsarskoe Selo, which from 1904 would become their full time residence.’” 
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: griffh on April 18, 2007, 05:05:04 PM
Continued proof of the closeness of the two sisters in the early years of the new reign, was the presence of Ella at the birth of Olga. 

Warwick writes:

“‘Ella was with Alix at Tsarskoe Selo for the accouchement, staying first for reasons of space in the Catherine Great Palace with Serge and two members of their household…, Paul and his children, Marie and Dimitry, were also there.

“‘Serge’s stay, however, was shorter than he and Ella would have liked, but duty required his presence in Moscow…Ella told her brother, ‘I am awfully sorry not to [be going] with him, she added, ‘but wish to remain with Alix [the birth] may be very soon…’

“‘With Serge’s return to Moscow, Ella moved into a room in the Alexander Palace…

“‘Ella and Nicky were with Alix when her labour pains began on the night of 2/14 November.  The following afternoon, the Dowager Empress arrived at Tsarskoe Selo from Gatchina and together she and Ella did all they could for Alix, even massaging her back and legs to make her feel more comfortable.  It was a long and painful labour, which by his own admission ‘exhausted’ Nicky, who had hardly left Alix’s side and , unusually for the times, witnessed the birth.  Such was Alix’s trial that Ella and Marie Feodorovna were frequently to be found on their knees in prayer…

“‘…although Nicky’s sister Xenia thought it a pity that the baby was not a son and heir, Ella told her grandmother, ‘The joy of having their baby has never one moment let them regret little Olga being a girl...’”   

It seems that not even the dreadful disaster in the meadow of Khodynskoye Pole, during the Coronation ceremonies in Moscow in May 1896 broke the imperial couple’s closeness with Ella and Sergei, even though Nicky’s sister Xenia and her husband Alexander (and all of his brothers) became harsh critics of Serge and demanded his resignation.  Even Serge’s close friend the GD Konstantin [KR] was disgusted with Serge and the disaster created a rift in within the Imperial family that did not heal with time.  Perhaps the reason that the closeness between the sisters was not broken by Serge’s unfeeling response to the disaster, was Ella’s firm conviction that her husband had nothing to do with Serge.  The imperial couple joined Serge and Ella at a house party in Ilinskoye directly after the Coronation, and then met up with Serge and Ella in the first week of October 1896 at Darmstald on Ella and Serge’s return from a trip to Italy. 

According to Warwick, the Khodynka tragedy did bring on a vicious press campaign against Serge and Ella, attacking their marriage, and malicious gossip about Ella’s relationship with her younder sister, Alix.  It was also claimed that Sergei had far too much influence over his nephew, Nicholas.  Ella was so hurt by all of the malice in the press that she wrote of her grief to her grandmother. 

Warwick quotes from Ella’s letter to Queen Victoria:

…returning to Russia from Darmstadt with Nicky and Alix ‘…must have been a great astonishment [to their detractors] as people were saying we did not like each other &… Well the abominable lies told about us [Ella and Serge] to them [Nicholas and Alexandra] are not eddifying [sic], the intrigues were simply disgusting…the great thing is to have a clear conscience before God as who can change the unkindness of the world, in this case of a set of jealous intriguers…People I suppose could not believe that we were harmless & happy so began trying to prove the contrary…

…In every way I find it lucky we live in another town [to] Alix…it makes her quite independent [and] nobody can then say that whatever she does I have counseled…What I cannot understand is jealousy between sisters or not liking the younger ones to be of a higher rank – I know that people were watching at the coronation to see would I kiss her hand, why it was a real joy…May God grant we ten husbands & wives [a reference to her siblings and their spouses] may always love each other as we do…
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: griffh on April 18, 2007, 05:19:07 PM
I think from all of these quotes it is fairly clear that Ella and Alix were forced apart because of court intrigue and possibly because of the family dispute that occurred over the Khodynka disaster, even though Nicky had given Serge the honor in January 1897 of appointing him Director of the Alexander III memorial monument in Moscow and in June 1897 appointing Serge and Ella as representatives of the Romanoff throne for Queen Victoria’s Diamond Jubilee. 

By 1898 Ella had thrown herself into the cultural life of Moscow and though Alix was being targeted by the St. Petersburg aristocracy as aloof and distant, Ella had already learned that she could not act as counselor without terrible repercussions for both herself and Alix.  By 1900 Alix had drawn close to the Montenegrin Princess Stana and Melitza and their adept, Dr. Phillipe. 

From all of this I feel that it was not so much the sister’s natures or character that separated them as it was court intrigue and jealousy.  I keep hearing Anna Vyrubova’s remarks to the American newspaper woman, Rita Childe Door, in 1917:

 “…This much I do know, that is was difficult, very difficult, at the Russian court, to avoid being drawn into political intrigues.  You know, of course, what a court is like.”
“No,” I said, “I don’t know anything about a court.  Tell me what it is like.”
 
“There is only one word in English to describe it,” replied Anna Virubova.  “That word is ‘rotten.’  A court is made up of numberless little cliques, each one with its endless gossip, it whisperings, its secrets and its plots, big and small.  There is nothing too big or too small for these cliques to concern themselves with.  They plot international political changes, and they plot private murders.  They plot to ruin the mind and morals of an Emperor, and they plot to break up a friendship between two women.  They plot to raise this one to power and they plot to bring about the fall of another.  They plot in peace and they plot in war.  The person who lives at court and is not drawn into some of these plots is an exception to the rule.  That is all I can say.”

Clearly the context of those remarks were in reference to the question that Rita had asked Anna which involved Rasputin's alleged involvement with the Germans but I believe that Anna's observation of court life were accurate and that they not only described the silent operations of the Great Court but of all the lesser GD courts as well. 

I think that the other thing that probably distanced the two sisters was the fact that by she became involved as "August Patroness" of the Moscow Philharmonic Society and School and in January of 1898 had decided to replace one of her two start-of-the-year receptions at the Governor General's mansion with a Gerhart Hautmann play, "The Sunken Bell."  Her close work with Danchenko certainly must have begun to broadened Ella's outlook.  Danchenko would later write of Ella's love of the theater:

"In the cultural life of Moscow private initiative alwasys tried to find support in some sort of patronage.  Elisabeth Feodorovna loved the theater, attaching herself to my school performances, and in a abashed sort of way even tried to be present in the ordinary classes."   I am sure that this participation at the school had to have an edifying effect on Ella's social awareness.   
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Eric_Lowe on April 20, 2007, 04:21:11 PM
Yet in Warrick book, it was also wriiten that later on Ella have reason to regret bring Alicky to Russia... :(
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: griffh on April 21, 2007, 09:14:09 AM
Eric that is exactly right, but I was trying to deal with the earlier years; the first decade of the reign, that is to say, 1894-1904.  I used the 1904 date as a cut-off date because it includes the last really closely shared episode between the two sisters; the imperial visit to Sartov.  That pilgrimage to Sartov had a profound influence on both women that lasted the rest of their lives.  However I do understand with the assassination of Sergie the following year in 1905 and Ella's determination to create her nursing order, that things became difficult between the two sisters by 1909-1910 and of course the two sister's growing distance was based on their dispute over Rasputin.  At the same time I can't help but feel that Ella and Alix had fundamentally different attitudes about the true nature of the Orthodox church.  I am not sure where I have gathered this impression from, but it seems that the two women had differing views about their church that were independent of their dispute over Rasputin.  What I am trying to say is that I have the feeling that if there was no Rasputin in the picture, the two women would have held differing views of their religion. 

I am always trying to isolate that earlier decade and try to understand it's dynamic as it was so very different from the rest of the reign.  And of course the War Years are an epoch all to themselves.  But once again Eric you are spot on about the latter relations between the two sisters. 

Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Eric_Lowe on April 22, 2007, 12:55:46 PM
Indeed ! Nicky & Alicky were right for each other...but both were bad for Russia. Ella found that out too late. It was after her interview with Alicky that she cried "Poor Nicky ! Poor Russia !" It was pure anguish on the part of Ella.  :( On the religious side, both tried hard to become good Orthodoxs. However they both have a different vision of that from each other.  ???
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Olishka~ Pincess on November 04, 2007, 09:34:13 AM
There are very little photos of
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 05, 2007, 04:30:10 AM
Who ?  ;)
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Olishka~ Pincess on November 05, 2007, 04:16:57 PM
Who ?  ;)
Another mistake, I forgot to include the rest of my statement. I was refering to both Victoria and Ella together. There are not much photos of the two sisters together. They saw each other from time to time. I realy wish the sisters had time to reunite and meet again, but sadly it did not happy that much.
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 05, 2007, 07:24:24 PM
Actually quite a lot of photos of Victoria & Ella exist...up to their point of their marrage. Then the visits were also marked by photo sessions in Russia and Darmstadt. I saw the albums of Nora Kerr...quite a lot of photos of  Victoria & Ella togather... :)
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Olishka~ Pincess on November 07, 2007, 03:14:53 PM
Actually quite a lot of photos of Victoria & Ella exist...up to their point of their marrage. Then the visits were also marked by photo sessions in Russia and Darmstadt. I saw the albums of Nora Kerr...quite a lot of photos of  Victoria & Ella togather... :)
I would love to see them...I think they may be in the Windsor Castle and Russian archives I believe becuase there are so many photographs of Queen Victoria, and her family being kept there. Who is Nore Kerr? could you please tell us more about her.
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: grandduchessella on November 07, 2007, 06:17:45 PM
Nona Kerr was Victoria's lady-in-waiting. Her brother (?) Mark Kerr was also close to the family and wrote a bio on Louis Battenberg.
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 07, 2007, 08:24:37 PM
Nora Kerr's albums are in the University of Southhampton (where the Mountbattan Papers are kept). I found a few good ones of Ella and they most likely will appear in my next book.  ;)
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Olishka~ Pincess on November 08, 2007, 04:22:07 PM
Nora Kerr's albums are in the University of Southhampton (where the Mountbattan Papers are kept). I found a few good ones of Ella and they most likely will appear in my next book.  ;)
Oh, your making a book I am realy looking forward to hearing more about this. Good Luck Eric!
Nona Kerr was Victoria's lady-in-waiting. Her brother (?) Mark Kerr was also close to the family and wrote a bio on Louis Battenberg.
Thanks granduchessella for you help I appreciate it! A lady in waiting of Victoria of Battenburg the first daughter of Alice and Luis. Very interesting I am very anxious to see those photos!
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 08, 2007, 06:25:17 PM
I already did 2 books already "Royalty In Photographs" & "Royal Images". Both have photos of Ella... ???
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Olishka~ Pincess on November 09, 2007, 03:41:24 PM
I already did 2 books already "Royalty In Photographs" & "Royal Images". Both have photos of Ella... ???
Thanks I will check them out! I am glad to hear that.
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 09, 2007, 10:26:44 PM
You can also buy it through me or other channels.  ;)
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Olishka~ Pincess on November 10, 2007, 08:07:55 AM
You can also buy it through me or other channels.  ;)
Okay! Thanks Eric! I have not decided yet what I want to do.
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 11, 2007, 07:34:42 PM
You can decide ! I am going for the Missy book by Diana Manache published by Ted Rosvell... :)
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Russka Princess on July 22, 2008, 10:43:42 AM
well im sure such lovly Ella and such strong victoria has fight often or ?

but i has read that Ella, was  the God-mother of alice.

and victoria has often visit Ella in Russia, and they was always lovly and friendliy to ech other.



have someone more informatiion about the "Big Pair?"  or photos ?
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Lalee on July 22, 2008, 06:59:39 PM
Victoria and Ella were very close, since the beginning of their childhood. They shared a room and they didn’t look up to each other only as sisters,  but also as friends, even though they were very opposite in characters (Ella being more girly and interested in dolls and pretty objects, and Victoria being more interested in climbing trees and was a regular tomboy). Princess Alice wrote that they could never be taken as sisters, even in physical looks. When Ella moved to Russia, Victoria probably visited her every year, and eventually when Alix moved, Victoria spent time with both her sisters.

I will post pictures of them together soon!
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 22, 2008, 07:14:18 PM
Indeed...nicely put.

Looking forward to seeing more pics... ;)
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Lalee on July 23, 2008, 04:48:23 AM
Indeed...nicely put.

Looking forward to seeing more pics... ;)

Thank you :)

There are plenty of photos of Victoria and Ella together, but I'm intending to post photographs of the two alone or with their parents.

I find these two adorable! Formal poses of Victoria and Ella as toddlers with their father and mother:

(http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk153/ferahxx/1867.jpg) (http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk153/ferahxx/1867.jpg) (http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk153/ferahxx/18672.jpg) (http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk153/ferahxx/18672.jpg)

There were about 19 months between the sisters, and by the time Ella was only a few months old, she was already wearing the dresses that Victoria had worn when she was a year old. In my opinion, they look almost the same age together in those photographs. As toddlers, Victoria was "fair, thin and pale", compared to Ella who was a "fat darling of a baby."
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Russka Princess on July 23, 2008, 05:06:29 AM
thanks my dear  they are very lovly

im interestst of the pics , where they are litlle bit older like teenagers or wifes. but they are ok thanks :)

But somewhere i has read that Vicky was a litlle bit strong, from her figure, i mean when she was older. And Ella was a little girl fat, but when she was older than she was thin.
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Lalee on July 23, 2008, 05:29:30 AM
You're welcome!

Victoria most probably was strong. She wasn't really the very feminine type and even as a child she wasn't very interested in girly things, such as porcelain dolls. I think she was very active, and loved to climb trees, clambering on to rooftops and even shinned up one of a ship's masts.

I will post more photos of the sisters later.
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Russka Princess on July 23, 2008, 08:37:12 AM
 tahnks my dear

Yeah but i think in teh time, where she fell in Love with Louis, than she was much femine or ?  was Victoria and louis in love ? i think they was.

cool i would be glad, for waiting of photos^^ thanks.

Ella and Victoria was very different Girls (Woman) but they was lovly to ech other.

and ones i has read that Vicky and her daugther Louise has visit Ella in Russia and Louis was in London and has work. Than he has became the news that in Russia was War or something, (that he has made scared) so he went  go Russia and has take his Wife and his daugther home. Very Lovly!
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 23, 2008, 08:54:14 AM
Yes...Victoria was a tomboy, but she evidently like cute guys and Louis Battenberg was very handsome (even Grandmama thought so). She however was a very independent woman and wouldn't tolerate a personality like Serge in her life (even though she personally had not issue with her brother-in-law).
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Russka Princess on July 23, 2008, 09:15:37 AM
but what i has heard, that Sergej was very close to Vicky. They were friends. And one i has read a book about the yussopovs, and there stand that sergej  has look so dangerous, that he could take  every woman and could spend a night with her. But later it stand that he is not hetero.  taht has shoked me  about that with every woman :o

But Vicky would never be unfaithful to her Louis. but was she not jealous of the story with this Lilie Langrty ? 
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 23, 2008, 09:22:24 AM
Well...according from what Ilana (whose book on VMH is coming out) told me that she liked him but does not understand him. They are like chalk and cheece. Lily Langtry was before Victoria's time and he did confess that to her (she was man enough to ignore that (thank God for the tomboy in her)). Louis later had a reunion with Jeanne Marie, his daughter with Lily.  ;)
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Russka Princess on July 23, 2008, 09:29:35 AM
wow she was very strong , but i think she  has often fight with Louis, becuase they was so different.  Or ?

and the numb daugther alice, made victoria heavy. but she has made her job good as a mother and as wife
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Russka Princess on July 23, 2008, 09:30:20 AM
wow she was very strong , but i think she  has often fight with Louis, becuase they was so different.  Or ?

and the numb daugther alice, made victoria heavy. but she has made her job good as a mother and as wife
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 23, 2008, 09:35:26 AM
Well I think you should read Hugo Vicker's bio of Alice to know more about the relationship between them. It contains quite a bit of material...
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 23, 2008, 09:36:43 AM
Good wife...Good mother ? Differs if you ask Dickie or Alice or even Louise...
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Russka Princess on July 23, 2008, 09:39:14 AM
ok thanks  i i have alot of money that mabe i will buyed.  ;D

but i dont think Ella and Victoria has fight about  to share a room. victoria has her own regulate and ella didnt like that . (after the death of their Mother)
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 23, 2008, 09:41:35 AM
Or...buy second hand they are cheap. or maybe just borrow from library.
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Russka Princess on July 23, 2008, 09:42:44 AM
yeah mabe you have right well i will see but thanks.
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 23, 2008, 09:45:10 AM
That is how I started knowing about royalty, from the library.
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Russka Princess on July 23, 2008, 09:53:00 AM
yeah i hope i will find the book o them.  what is with the book about the four hesse-sisters ? can we buyd it from the amazon ? and has Ileana not a website about the book ?
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 23, 2008, 09:57:02 AM
The book is "Hessian Tavestry" and a good book. The books by Hough on "the Mountbattens" and "letters to my granddaughter" are also good reads.
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Russka Princess on July 23, 2008, 09:58:28 AM
why ? i think she was it or not ?
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 23, 2008, 09:59:38 AM
She tried her best.
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Russka Princess on July 23, 2008, 10:02:22 AM
ok thanks i will  look them in the libary, if i will find them.
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Russka Princess on July 23, 2008, 10:03:48 AM
i know Louis was not often at home, cause he has work often and vicky has visit her sisters and her bother always too.

 you has read a book about her, so what has  do wrong ?  i knew that she has loved children.
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 23, 2008, 10:06:08 AM
Well...she put Alice in an institution when she went crazy (Alice did not forgive her mother for doing that)

She spoiled Dickie since he was the baby.

Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 23, 2008, 10:09:08 AM
Or go to Amazon.com and look for out-of-print books. Didn't know about the book selections in Germany...
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Russka Princess on July 23, 2008, 10:09:20 AM
it was Vicky how has took Alice in a instition ? i whought it would be Andre, Alice husband ? :o

and what has she dont to Dickie since he was a baby ?
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Russka Princess on July 23, 2008, 10:10:11 AM
ok i will search. thanks.
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 23, 2008, 10:12:45 AM
A lovely image...nonetheless....
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Russka Princess on July 23, 2008, 10:14:18 AM
thanks. =)
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 23, 2008, 10:14:22 AM
No...it was VMH who did that.

Well maybe you should email Ilana since she is the one who wrote a book on her...
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Russka Princess on July 23, 2008, 10:15:53 AM
ok tahnks

 it shoked me  that she has done that . the poor alice, i think that she was a numb is hard enough
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 23, 2008, 10:28:33 PM
A crumbling marriage and a religious fever push her off the edge... :'(
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 23, 2008, 10:29:36 PM
Wonder any new Russian picture book on Ella coming out ?
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Russka Princess on July 24, 2008, 02:18:32 AM
i thought Alice fell in love in Andrew.. the poor..  she is so beautifull.  :'(
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Russka Princess on July 24, 2008, 02:20:52 AM
im dont know.  hmmm
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 25, 2008, 09:38:03 AM
No...Alice fell instantly for Andrew, a blond Adonis...she later told her grandson Prince Charles. The Queen too fell for her son, Prince Philip, who inheired his father's good looks...
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Russka Princess on July 25, 2008, 03:16:48 PM
oh.. that sad.. i think Alice hasnt deservert,  i has read that she has very hard time, to find Friends
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 26, 2008, 11:58:29 AM
Yes...but she did made friends with Marie Bonaparte, who paid for Philip's school fees...
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Russka Princess on December 31, 2008, 03:15:28 PM
Ella  was very close to Victoria, Alix and Ernie. But not really to Irene. she is always  "behind" thats makes me sad.

But Irene did visit Ella too often in Russia, as Ella was a nun.

Victoria did  visit Ella mostly than Ernie or Irene. Very Seldom was Alix, she coudl come very seldom cause her health or the health of  Alexej.
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 02, 2009, 11:43:11 AM
True...Although Irene did came when Ella had her operation before becoming a nun.
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: grandduchessella on January 02, 2009, 10:05:15 PM
(Posted by Sisi on the first Ella photos thread)


With Victoria

(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/kedvesem/ellavictiraanddimitri.jpg)

(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/kedvesem/ellaandvictoriaofbattenberg.jpg)


with Irene


(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/kedvesem/ellaandirene.jpg)

With Alix

(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e386/mashka1899/Hesse%20children/1aaakp3.jpg)
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: grandduchessella on January 02, 2009, 10:11:34 PM
With her sisters (posted by XJaseyRaeX)

(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e386/mashka1899/Hesse%20children/1aayr8.jpg)

Posted by Ashanti

With VMH

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/Ella/ellamariadmtry.jpg)
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: grandduchessella on January 02, 2009, 11:12:26 PM
Posted by Ashanti

With Ernie, Alix and Irene

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/Ella/ellasergeebaypic.jpg)

Posted by Svetabel

With Alix and Waldemar Prussia

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Rarefind/ellaalixnephew.jpg)

With Irene (as well as Marie and Dmitri)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Rarefind/mpdpellairene.jpg)
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: grandduchessella on January 02, 2009, 11:15:31 PM
With Ernie, VMH, Alix

(http://www.sellersourcebook.net/users/52804/lko_020.jpg)

Posted by Ashanti

With Ernie & Alix

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/Ella/ellafam.jpg)
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: grandduchessella on January 02, 2009, 11:19:11 PM
Posted by Nadya Arapov

With VMH & Irene

(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p203/historybuff2283/th_Irene-VictoriaElla.jpg)

With VMH

(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p203/historybuff2283/th_ellaAliceVictoria.jpg)

(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p203/historybuff2283/EllasisterVictoria.jpg)

With Ernie

(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p203/historybuff2283/th_EllaErnieField.jpg)

(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p203/historybuff2283/new1/th_EllaSergeandErnie.jpg)
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Russka Princess on January 03, 2009, 04:51:56 AM
 thanks they are lovly on the one pic with VHM, i belive there have Ella short hair right ?

i think so.
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 03, 2009, 10:38:08 AM
Yes but I forgot where I saw it.
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Olga Maria on February 27, 2009, 01:06:04 PM
The Hessian sisters have very deep religious sense, don't you all think?
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 27, 2009, 03:05:50 PM
I don't think VMH was as deep as Ella or Alicky. She was much more practical.
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Olga Maria on February 27, 2009, 11:19:40 PM
Is Irene same as Ella and Alicky or a bit like VMH?
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 28, 2009, 02:15:17 PM
I think Irene was more VMH than Alicky, so both sisters had hemohilia kids. I did not see Irene brining her child to Rasputin for healing...
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: nena on February 28, 2009, 02:22:47 PM
I'd say Rasputin was brought to 'heal' Tsarevich. Alix's believe in God also is often called a bit fanatic (don't get me in wrong way). Ella accepted Orthodox with all heart. I am very proud of her.
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 28, 2009, 02:27:56 PM
Yet...Rasputin and Ella were enemies. I read he once step on a photo of Ella...
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: nena on February 28, 2009, 02:32:15 PM
Yes -- they were enemies...How many times she tried to tell Alexandra how and who he was....Alexandra only listened her and was silence. Didn't believe to her sister.

 
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 28, 2009, 02:36:22 PM
Alicky was very stubborn. Ella tried to warn her but to no avil...
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Olga Maria on February 28, 2009, 05:31:49 PM
I'm also into question of Alix why she is so sensitive of hearing ones disparaging Rasputin.
It's just natural that others believe him,others do not (I'm on this side). Why can't she accept this fact?
I know she doesn't want to hear something bad for Rasputin because she knows Rasputin would feel hurt. Alix also believes in his capacity to heal Aleksei in the most dreadful times.
(yeah. I have to say this in Alix's thread......right?)

Just read yesterday how Ella reacted on Serge's death. She didn't cry on other people's presence but when she's already alone, she gave up. She sobbed a lot.
Someone was with her ( I can't remember who that was).
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 28, 2009, 06:40:04 PM
Marie P and Dimitri was with her at this time. VMH also came as soon as she could.

Indeed. Only Rasputin could save her son. Alexei not only her son but also the future of Russia (she believed), so nobody could ask her to listen to anything against her son's savioir...
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Olga Maria on March 07, 2009, 03:16:39 PM
If the IF have such, why not Ella? She's also a saint. I'm still starting to dig the outrageous Internet for such stories. If any of you has one from books about her,feel fee to post here.
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 07, 2009, 04:20:09 PM
The official version was that Rasputin had hypnotic technics that put the heir to sleep and through relaxation stopped the bleeding. Even Olga Alexandrovna cannot explain the strange way he could keep the bleeding stop, that is until he made a pass at her...
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: nena on March 08, 2009, 10:01:13 AM
Possible, but also Rasputin kept a icon, which also had some hypnotic techincs to Aleksei Nicholaievich.
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Imperial_Grounds on March 08, 2009, 03:12:41 PM
I'm sure Rasputin knew hypnotics and used these to stop the bleeding(as stated before),

and as for the different ways Alix and Ella approached their faith's it is intresting to see they both accepted it with their whole being but that Ella kept a string to reality and relied on her faith, but kept an eye on things around her, while Alix was too religious and often relied too much on her faith. Though I can understand why Alix relied so much on her faith, she simply wanted healing for her son and saw only one way to ask, by her faith. I think it is sad the sisters parted after an argue on  Rasputin, once more, and never met again. I recall the last news IF received from Ella was in a letter for Easter 1918 - If I'm correct.

For me Ella is a 'figure' that gives hope during dark times, and a bearer for the needs of the poor and grieving people, I see each member of the IF in this way - but each has a different meaning, relegious then -, also she shows one can have the strenght to overcome everything. Even death and hatred(as this also is shown with the IF themselves).
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 08, 2009, 03:59:16 PM
Ella was more general in faith, while Alicky was too focused on her son and the dynasty, her views on Russia were unrealistic.
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: nena on March 08, 2009, 05:39:35 PM
Ella was more general in faith, while Alicky was too focused on her son and the dynasty, her views on Russia were unrealistic.

Yes. But remember she writhed because Russia's fate. Maybe a bit late...Imperial_Grounds is correct, Rasputin made lode between sisters. There is something more, I am sure.
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 08, 2009, 05:47:40 PM
Ella believe if God wanted Alexei to survive, he will. The interferece of Rasputin has no place in government appointed officials. Alicky believed if Alexei died the dynasty goes with him...
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Olga Maria on March 09, 2009, 03:54:04 AM
Oh why can Alicky think about that?
She can pass the throne to Olga (not sure if I'm right since i don't know if Pauline laws can be altered)
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: nena on March 09, 2009, 08:25:39 AM
Maybe, but people would love to see Aleksei on the Throne, rather than Olga. Since Tatiana was more popular in people, anyway.
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 09, 2009, 11:41:27 AM
In the old days, threy could arrange a marrage with Cyril or Boris and the thorne and the bloodline would have succeeded. However Alicky wasn't interested in a dynastic marriage for her daughters. Had she insist Olga marry Karol, she would probably have lived...
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: nena on March 09, 2009, 12:41:26 PM
Or Alexander of Serbia...But more about Olga's possible marriages in her own thread, I think it was Olga's will, firstly.

However, Ella Feodorovna was an very good, heartly person, I am hounoured with her.  :-)
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Marlene on March 09, 2009, 02:52:54 PM
Nicholas' daughters followed all the men in the family, so they were way down in the line of succession.  The Fundamental laws were changed during at various times.  Alexander III and Nicholas both made changes to the laws.   I would like to think that if the Russian monarchy had survived - no revoluion - that Nicholas would have allowed for the succession to be changed to Male primogeniture, which would have moved the four granddiuchess up the list to right after their brother.  The main opposition would have come from Miechen, of couirse, since the change would have greatly afected her family, particularly Kirill.

Oh why can Alicky think about that?
She can pass the throne to Olga (not sure if I'm right since i don't know if Pauline laws can be altered)
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 09, 2009, 03:29:26 PM
Indeed. There was a thought of marrying Olga to Grand Duke Dimitri and strengthen his claim. According to his researcher who had his diary to quote. Dimitri flirted with the thought of claiming the throne as the case in Russia after the situation was so dire. However eventually he supported Kyrill.
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: HERE MS. SEAN on January 22, 2010, 10:20:51 AM
Question 1.  When Her Imperial Highness "Ella" the Grand Duchess Serge of All the Russia's converted to orthodoxy her father the Grand Duke Of Hesse-Darmstadlt had a "fit"---did, COULD  an unspoken "agreement" exsisted for Alix NOT to convert at all since these were the early days of her and Nicky's romance-could this be another reason for her uncompliance for accepting the HEIR TO THE RUSSIAN THRONE  for husbanc????   QUESTION 2.  How do we know or donot know of her and everyone know about the dreaded bleeding disease that cripppled Her Majesty Victoria's son, (Alix's uncle Leopold) and brother Frittie who flew out of her mother's window to his death-both having the bleeding disease.  The Reputable Robert Massie and Greg King seem to think Alix may not have even been aware of the reasons why and how but what do you think-love to you all Ms. Sean a devoted subject to Imperial Russia
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: wildone on June 07, 2010, 10:16:03 PM
Strange that neither Ella nor Serge seemed to give much thought as to how Alix would function as an Empress.
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: CountessKate on June 08, 2010, 03:38:26 AM
I don't think anyone actually seemed to make that kind of judgement at the time - the main criteria for a consort were whether she would be healthy and a good wife and mother.  There was no reason at the time to suppose she wouldn't, and indeed in terms of spousal loyalty and motherhood you couldn't fault her.  The views of Alexandra failing to be a 'good empress' were formed by factors which no one could have forseen at the time of her marriage and at the time Ella and Serge may well have thought that the well-connected youngest princess of Hesse Darmstadt, brought up under Queen Victoria's wing, would have made a good Empress of Russia in due course.  And none of the objections Queen Victoria put forward were anything to do with Alexandra's potential as the consort of a future Tsar, but rather to do with concerns for her physical safety and the louche quality of court society. 
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Olga Maria on June 08, 2010, 03:56:40 AM
Strange that neither Ella nor Serge seemed to give much thought as to how Alix would function as an Empress.

Perhaps they quite forgot Nicky wasn’t an ordinary Grand Duke— they just thought about the compatible feelings of Nicky and Alix towards each other, which is enough for a perfect, Heaven-made marriage.
Or possibly, they thought Alix is a suitable Empress — Alix is an intelligent, has sense of duty and charitable lady (but perhaps they didn’t think that Empresses must be so sociable, that’s why they thought with those 2 attributes, Alix could be a suitable Empress).

Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 08, 2010, 01:00:59 PM
Alicky wasn't raised to be an empress, but more as a well educated royal lady. None of her sisters sat on thrones, as their mother was only a Grand Ducal consort in the German Federation. It is interesting that Alicky's social skills were never trained. Alicky's cousin Missy (whose mother was a Russian Grand Duchess) was trained as a girl to do the rounds in a room using chairs to substitude people (found in Queen Marie of Romania's memoirs).
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Olga Maria on June 09, 2010, 01:32:15 AM
Alix was also trained to improve her social skills—by Queen Victoria herself. They called it cercle—walking around a room, talking to pieces of furniture as if they were people to improve their social graces—the same as the thing Missy learned from her mother. Unfortunately, Alix didn’t master the cercle, so, she remained shy as what she was ever since she was younger.
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: CountessKate on June 09, 2010, 09:14:09 AM
Alix was also trained to improve her social skills—by Queen Victoria herself. They called it cercle—walking around a room, talking to pieces of furniture as if they were people to improve their social graces—the same as the thing Missy learned from her mother. Unfortunately, Alix didn’t master the cercle, so, she remained shy as what she was ever since she was younger.

I think it wasn't so much a matter of training as a matter of flair - an inate predisposition for communication on a public level.  Marie of Romania had it in spades, others didn't (Queen Mary, for example, eventually very popular, was shy, not naturally gregarious in a public sense and indeed often seen as intimidating - but circumstances worked for her).  'Cercleing' (as Queen Victoria's daughters and grandaughters called it) was a useful training mechanism, but it didn't help if someone wasn't naturally inclined towards a relaxation in, and indeed, enjoyment of, public ocasions.   However, Alexandra's eventual  alienation from 'society' was not something which would have been picked up or identified as a problem either by Ella or Serge at an early stage as it wasn't essentially a really important factor at the time - and indeed, criticism of society could have been perceived by them as a good thing insofar as  she could lead it by example into more virtuous ways. 
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 09, 2010, 09:23:09 AM
I think Alicky's retiring nature is more in tune with Ducky's. Yet Ducky was able to become a good hostess, and able to maintain her privicy of her own thoughts. Her mother Marie Coburg (herself a Russian born Grand Duchess) was fully on the mark when she said "There is nothing so boring as a princess who says nothing and just sits there !" (she could also be describing Alicky in the same vine). I think Ella and VMH was lucky to see their mother Alice as an example growing up, while Alicky seem to model herself after QV (her equally shy grandmother). In that way, Alicky was "spolit" as she was allowed to go her own way. It would not be such a tragic thing had she not destined to be an empress. Ella, on the other hand, had the training and natural flair to be a consort (Queen, Empress, First Lady..etc).
Title: Re: Ella and her Siblings
Post by: Olga Maria on June 10, 2010, 02:39:59 AM
I don't think anyone actually seemed to make that kind of judgement at the time - the main criteria for a consort were whether she would be healthy and a good wife and mother.  There was no reason at the time to suppose she wouldn't, and indeed in terms of spousal loyalty and motherhood you couldn't fault her.  The views of Alexandra failing to be a 'good empress' were formed by factors which no one could have forseen at the time of her marriage and at the time Ella and Serge may well have thought that the well-connected youngest princess of Hesse Darmstadt, brought up under Queen Victoria's wing, would have made a good Empress of Russia in due course.  And none of the objections Queen Victoria put forward were anything to do with Alexandra's potential as the consort of a future Tsar, but rather to do with concerns for her physical safety and the louche quality of court society.  


I think it wasn't so much a matter of training as a matter of flair - an inate predisposition for communication on a public level.    'Cercleing' (as Queen Victoria's daughters and grandaughters called it) was a useful training mechanism, but it didn't help if someone wasn't naturally inclined towards a relaxation in, and indeed, enjoyment of, public ocasions.   However, Alexandra's eventual  alienation from 'society' was not something which would have been picked up or identified as a problem either by Ella or Serge at an early stage as it wasn't essentially a really important factor at the time - and indeed, criticism of society could have been perceived by them as a good thing insofar as  she could lead it by example into more virtuous ways.  

I agree with all these, CountessKate, so much!

In that way, Alicky was "spolit" as she was allowed to go her own way.

Alix, from her younger years, was said to have a mind of her own; she stuck to what she believed in until the end (unless she was fully convinced to change her opinion)—and she didn’t want to be forced to do something she didn't and wouldn’t like. She wasn’t spoilt but it seems she was because of that reason.  She was convincing others to understand her instead—for example, QV tried all her best to make Alix marry Eddy, but Alix kept insisting she would not, even if she knew she would hurt her grandmother’s feelings. Eventually, QV ‘surrendered’ (is this the right word to use?) her hopes and let Alix follow her heart.

'Cercleing' (as Queen Victoria's daughters and grandaughters called it) was a useful training mechanism, but it didn't help if someone wasn't naturally inclined towards a relaxation in, and indeed, enjoyment of, public ocasions.  

Alix was the person whose shyness can’t be separated from her whole being, IMO.
Perhaps Alix knew that shaking off some of her shyness would be good for her so that she could be able to enjoy public occasions, but, she’s not willing to do it because she didn’t like it—she only thought of herself, and cared less about what other people would say about her.

I think Ella and VMH was lucky to see their mother Alice as an example growing up, while Alicky seem to model herself after QV (her equally shy grandmother).

Alice taught a lot of beautiful things that a mother could teach to Victoria and Ella, which alas, she had no chance to impart to Irene and Alix. Poor Irene and Alix : (

Ella, on the other hand, had the training and natural flair to be a consort (Queen, Empress, First Lady..etc).

I agree..And if she chose to marry William, Germany would really openly welcome and cherish her as their Queen because of those attributes… But then, I don’t feel disappointed. She doesn’t have feelings for William. Anyway, did she write any letter to William?


Title: Portrait of Alix by Ella
Post by: Queen_Missy on May 12, 2016, 11:53:23 AM
Does anyone have the portrait of Alix by Ella talked about in 2010
http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=14226.285
Thanks
Title: Re: Portrait of Alix by Ella
Post by: Ally Kumari on May 12, 2016, 02:53:47 PM
I believe it was this one

(http://nd04.jxs.cz/963/098/fe3987a16f_69036280_o2.jpg)
Title: Re: Portrait of Alix by Ella
Post by: TimM on July 02, 2016, 07:17:25 AM
That's a nice portrait of Alix.