Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => Grand Duchess Elizabeth Feodorovna => Topic started by: gem_10 on October 14, 2004, 10:21:26 AM

Title: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: gem_10 on October 14, 2004, 10:21:26 AM
Hellooo! I'm just wondering what kind of relationship Ella had with the other grand duchesses and grand dukes. Did she get along very well with them? I'm also curious about her "alleged" infatuation for Prince Nicholas of Greece. I've even read somewhere that there had been rumour in St. Petersburg that she and Paul had an affar! :o What can you say to all of these???
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: ashanti01 on October 14, 2004, 11:07:16 AM
At the start of her marriage with Sergei, his brother Pavel was always with them, he even went with them on their honeymoon. Many found this rather odd, but those in the close circle of the family, knew how close they were and found nothing odd about it. However, it wasn't long until rumors started running about a relationship between the beatiful Ella and Pavel. Sergei laughed it off saying there was nothing neither of them should be ashamed of. Which given all the facts, there really wasn't but, it does seem Ella was somewhat embarrassed by these rumors.

I have never heard anything about Nicholas of Greece so I could not tell you.

Ella was overall accepted and loved by all of the family. Nicholas II was very close to her and it was with her help that he managed to keep in touch with Alix.

The only ones I have known to have said anything bad or somewhat negative about her was her niece Marie.
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: grandduchessella on October 14, 2004, 03:08:33 PM
Quote
At the start of her marriage with Sergei, his brother Pavel was always with them, he even went with them on their honeymoon. Many found this rather odd, but those in the close circle of the family, knew how close they were and found nothing odd about it. However, it wasn't long until rumors started running about a relationship between the beatiful Ella and Pavel. Sergei laughed it off saying there was nothing neither of them should be ashamed of. Which given all the facts, there really wasn't but, it does seem Ella was somewhat embarrassed by these rumors.

I have never heard anything about Nicholas of Greece so I could not tell you.

Ella was overall accepted and loved by all of the family. Nicholas II was very close to her and it was with her help that he managed to keep in touch with Alix.

The only ones I have known to have said anything bad or somewhat negative about her was her niece Marie.


As regards Paul, the rumors were quite rampant around St Petersburg as he was always in their company. Apparently he partnered her a lot in dancing because Serge didn't like to participate. This caused some comments as did the fact that Paul went with them on many trips and photographs were often taken with the 3 of them. Plus, Ella & Paul apparently laughed a great deal together which contrasted with her quieter demeanor when in Serge's company. Even after Paul's marriage to Alexandra of Greece and the delight with which Serge & Ella welcomed her, rumors continued. I read somewhere once where it was said that rumors flew around St Petersburg about P&E and how his 'poor little wife' was being laughed at behind her back. Seems like malicious gossip, nothing more. Quite a few were apparently quite envious of Ella's beauty and fantastic wardrobe and jewellry. With Nicholas of Greece, this was mentioned (briefly unfortunately as I'd like to know more) in Hugo Mager's bio of Ella. They appeared as Lear and Cordelia in one of the family tableaux and a letter from Ella is quoted in the book where she writes very familiarly and rather lovingly to Nicholas. (Talking about how much Cordelia misses her Lear, etc...I'll have to get the book--I only read it last night!)
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: gem_10 on October 15, 2004, 03:20:23 AM
Yes I have read about her and Prince NIcholas in Hugo Mager's book. It's quite interesting to know more about this. By the way, what kind of person was Prince Nicholas? Do you think he was also infatuated with Ella?
By the way, was Ella also close to the other grand duchesses like Maria Georgievna, Maria Vladimirovna, Maria Pavlovna the Elder, Elizabeth Mavrikievna and Alexandra Iosofovna?
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: Olga on October 15, 2004, 03:22:45 AM
Quote
The only ones I have known to have said anything bad or somewhat negative about her was her niece Marie.


Maria Nikolaevna or Maria Pavlovna?
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: leanora on October 15, 2004, 05:55:15 AM
Is the Nicholas of Greece who later married Elena Wladimirovna?  ???
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: Greg_King on October 15, 2004, 07:12:02 AM
The Dowager Empress, among others (including Grand Duchess Vladimir), doesn't seem to have been terribly fond of Ella.  I've read some private correspondence and memoirs in which Marie Feodorovna makes quite clear her antipathy for Ella, from the 1890s on, and then in a very pronounced way after 1910.  So I don't think that these two women probably got on very well.

Greg King
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: Svetabel on October 15, 2004, 07:23:49 AM
Quote
The Dowager Empress, among others (including Grand Duchess Vladimir), doesn't seem to have been terribly fond of Ella.  I've read some private correspondence and memoirs in which Marie Feodorovna makes quite clear her antipathy for Ella, from the 1890s on, and then in a very pronounced way after 1910.  So I don't think that these two women probably got on very well.

Greg King

A.Bochanov in his "Romanovs" (in Russian,edition 2003)
tells (according to private correspondence) about Maria Feodorovna`s anthipathy for Ella in 1890s.Empress Maria thought that Ella had intrigued for marriage between her sister Alix and future Nicolai II.It was  khown that Maria Fedorovna did not want to see her son be engaged with a german princess
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: grandduchessella on October 15, 2004, 09:53:46 AM
Quote

Maria Nikolaevna or Maria Pavlovna?


Marie Pavlovna who was Serge & Ella's ward.
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: grandduchessella on October 15, 2004, 09:55:44 AM
Quote
Is the Nicholas of Greece who later married Elena Wladimirovna?  ???


Yes it is. I haven't read any more about Nicholas & Ella--does he mention her at all in his memoirs? If there was anything there it was probably no more than the same adulation of her beauty and goodness that seems to have infected many men--Paul, Felix Y, Sandro, etc...I don't think he was in love with her--or her with him. It seems to be more of a flirtation, though Mager says it was probably the closest Ella ever came to an extramarital affair. I know that Ella was close to Mavra early on because both were Lutherans who had chosen not to convert to Orthodoxy. I don't know about later on. Miechen seems to have a certain dislike for anyone who could be her social rival and this probably also played into some of MF's dislike as well (though the marriage issue was probably paramount). She and AI were of different generations so I don't know about a friendship there. Marie Georgievna writes fondly of Ella in Romanov Diary. There's not a lot there, but nothing negative. I'll have to dig it out. Plus she must've known how close her sister Alexandra and Ella were. I also think she admired Serge & Ella for taking on her niece & nephew because she says that MP was very difficult.
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: ashanti01 on October 15, 2004, 12:57:16 PM
I never knew Empress Marie did not like Ella :o
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: Madal on October 15, 2004, 01:33:20 PM
Why did Ella not convert to Orthodoxy? Alix had to convert to Orthodox because she was the tsarina. Perhaps Ella could choose to be Lutheran or Orthodox...

Did Ella not conversion affect in her relationship with Romanovs? Did she have problems about her religion?
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: rskkiya on October 15, 2004, 03:04:59 PM
Hello Madal!

Ella did convert to Orthodoxy. After her husband  Sergey was killed, she became a nun and today The Russian Orthodox Church considers her a Saint.

R
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: grandduchessella on October 15, 2004, 07:11:46 PM
Quote
Why did Ella not convert to Orthodoxy? Alix had to convert to Orthodox because she was the tsarina. Perhaps Ella could choose to be Lutheran or Orthodox...

Did Ella not conversion affect in her relationship with Romanovs? Did she have problems about her religion?


Sorry, I should've been more explicit. Ella didn't convert until several years after her marriage. She chose to stay Lutheran when she married as it wasn't a requirement for her since Serge wasn't heir to the throne. After several years in Russia, exposure to the Orthodox religion, and a very spiritual journey to Jerusalem to dedicate the church she would later be buried in, she decided to convert.
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: gem_10 on October 25, 2004, 10:02:24 PM
Hi there! I remember seeing a photo where Ella is with Nicky, George, Sandro and Prince Constantince of Greece and I  they're enjoying a picnic. Judging from that photo it seems to me that Ella was very close to these young men and that's such a good thing. It's so wonderful to see that she was well-loved by the whole imperial family even though some of them objected (e.g Grand Duke Vladimir) when she and Sergei decided to get married. However, I feel kind of sad for Alix because she wasn't able to win the hearts of the other members of the family and get the admiration that she deserves. I just come to realized how Ella and Alix are very different with each other and how people view them so differently from each other.
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: Kostya on October 26, 2004, 12:36:24 PM
Does this explain why when the GD Paul was sent into exile  GD Sergei and Ella decided to take in the children?  Are there pictures of all of them together?  Ella and the Children when they were young and when they were already adults?  and are there pictures of Ella, Sergei, and Paul together before and after Paul was married?  

Did Ella have a close relationship with Alexandra of Greece,  Paul's wife?  Are there pictures of them together?  
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: ashanti01 on October 26, 2004, 03:35:00 PM
Quote
Does this explain why when the GD Paul was sent into exile  GD Sergei and Ella decided to take in the children?  Are there pictures of all of them together?  Ella and the Children when they were young and when they were already adults?  and are there pictures of Ella, Sergei, and Paul together before and after Paul was married?  

Did Ella have a close relationship with Alexandra of Greece,  Paul's wife?  Are there pictures of them together?  



Ella, Sergei and Paul were very close, so when Paul married Alexandra they welcomed her into thier little group with open arms.

Sergei was so devestated after her death that he has the room where she died, locked up and kept excatly the way it was when she died.

There are pictures of Ella and Dimitry, if you look at "The Camera and the Tsars" ( very good book) you will see many rare photos of Romanov family members.
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: Svetabel on October 27, 2004, 03:55:27 AM
Not exactly related with the topic but worth to seeing
Ella in modern paintings

http:// http://www.artinfo.ru/artbank/scripts/english/title_base.idc?author_id=1145&title_id=7402
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: Alexandra on October 27, 2004, 06:05:11 PM
Svetabel, thank you for that link. To my mind, the seated image of the 'Medical Nurse' recalls that of Alix during her Red Cross work. Does anyone else see any resemblance? Or echoes of other Imperial persons in this art besides GD/St Elisaveta?
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: Svetabel on October 28, 2004, 04:05:07 AM
Quote
Svetabel, thank you for that link. To my mind, the seated image of the 'Medical Nurse' recalls that of Alix during her Red Cross work. Does anyone else see any resemblance? Or echoes of other Imperial persons in this art besides GD/St Elisaveta?

For me "Medical Nurse" has no strong resemblance to Alix.  ???But who khows what the painter kept in his mind creating the canva?
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: hikaru on March 28, 2005, 09:30:34 AM
Countess Kamarowskaya in her memoirs, maybe,
doubled the rumours that
the possible cause of the death of Alexandra of Greece was something she saw in Ilinskoe between Ella and Pavel.
So Alexandra of Greece gave the birth to Dimitry eartlier that it was expected and died, unfortunately.

Maybe this fact could be the explanation that the attitude of Ella to Maria Pavlovna was not hot at all.

I do not want to make Ella bad by taping this message.
I esteeme her very much.
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: bluetoria on March 28, 2005, 10:29:48 AM
No, I cannot believe this!

Alexandra was known to be of a weak constitution. QV wrote of her being ill after the birth of Maria & never having recovered...and again:

"The doctors say she was in such a bad state of health that she would probably not have lived long. The kidneys quite wrong & the heart very weak & she was very ill already after the 1st time & I believe her health was not properly attended to before her marriage."
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: hikaru on March 28, 2005, 10:38:47 AM
Yes.
Countess Kamarowskaya did not state that this is true for 100 percents. She said that she refrained the rumour.
She just added that that from her experience  at the Court she could believe that it was true. Such rumors
continued for a long long time.

But at the same time she said that
She think that Ella is the most beatiful woman she ever saw and that when she met her at her convent, she liked her a lot.
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: bluetoria on March 28, 2005, 10:42:02 AM
Quote
Yes.
Countess Kamarowskaya did not state that this is true for 100 percents. She said that she refrained the rumour.
She just added that that from her experience  at the Court she could believe that it was true. Such rumors
continued for a long long time.



So that part is just rumour...
and this part:

Quote

But at the same time she said that
She think that Ella is the most beatiful woman she ever saw and that when she met her at her convent, she liked her a lot.


...is her personal experience  :)

Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: hikaru on March 28, 2005, 10:48:11 AM
Personally , I do not think that it is such simple.
She (Kamarowsky) was very clever and intelligent.
There is not so much rumours in her memoirs.
I think that when she wrote this rumours it means that
she thoght in the same way.
But she was trying to be honest and strictly divided what she witnessed or what she have heard.
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: grandduchessella on March 28, 2005, 01:29:22 PM
It could very well be that she heard the rumors. I've seen them reprinted in other books (perhaps Radziwill?) that Alexandra was viewed as 'deluded' by Ella's 'false friendship' and that St Petersburg was laughing behind her back since Paul & Ella were carrying on.

I personally don't buy it for one minute. There's nothing in Ella's actions or personality that would indicate she could be so cruel and duplicitous as to do that to a young girl--befriend her and then backstab her by carrying on with her husband.

It's been said that Paul had a crush on Ella when she first married but that he'd gotten over it by the time he married Alexandra and by most accounts they were very happy together. KR (I think) wrote that it was pitiful to see Paul after she died and he had to be pried away from her coffin and was then plunged into deep grief (which is one of the reasons the children weren't with him often even before his exile). Paul just couldn't cope.

Ella was the victim of a lot of slander due to her beauty and her odd marriage situation. Even her convent work was later gossiped about as 'show'. Some people just can't accept things at face value.
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: Speedycat on June 01, 2005, 08:32:45 PM
A beautiful photo of Alexandra Georgievna and Elziveta Feodorovna (too bad my scanner has made a mess of it!)  Much like celebrities of today, people looked to find "scandal" and "intrigue" in certain situations where there really was none.  I think the two couples enjoyed a very close friendship.  Keep in mind the writing styles of the late 19th early 20th Century was full of flowery words and over-blown emotional statements.  To use the expression "touch" or "embrace" in letters of that time period was not uncommon for both men and women.  It is only today in a world so obsessed with sex, sexuality and who is sleeping with who that we see these innocent words of family love in a different way.

(http://img206.echo.cx/img206/4288/alexandraandella1890s0ev.jpg)
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: hikaru on June 09, 2005, 05:35:38 AM
As fas as I know , all GD were  lightly amoureux with Ella in the end of 1880 years.
they were jealous of Serguey Alexandrovich that he would be marry with ELLA.
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: bluetoria on June 09, 2005, 07:38:31 AM
Quote
Much like celebrities of today, people looked to find "scandal" and "intrigue" in certain situations where there really was none....Keep in mind the writing styles of the late 19th early 20th Century was full of flowery words and over-blown emotional statements.  To use the expression "touch" or "embrace" in letters of that time period was not uncommon for both men and women.  It is only today in a world so obsessed with sex, sexuality and who is sleeping with who that we see these innocent words of family love in a different way.



I agree entirely Speedycat & I think that the royal families were particularly used to writing in that style. Ella called Nicholas, 'Darling Nicky'; QV called Vicky, "Beloved & Darling Child"; Alix's letters to Anna Vyrubova were equally affectionate. These expressions were often (& are often) so misinterpreted by people who could see only baseness in everything. What a pity! But! "To the pure everything is pure!"  :D
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: hikaru on June 09, 2005, 11:39:16 AM
In the beginning of the 20th century not only the royals used such forms as My Darling, My sweet heart etc. but the ordinary people too.
It was fashionable.
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: imperial angel on January 26, 2007, 01:19:09 PM
I tend to believe that Ella was pretty much accepted by the family and fit in. She had enough of a Russian/ Romanov quality to do so. She may have been marrying Sergei, who was controversial in some respects, but it doesn't seem like that impacted things much. Had Ella not fit in, Alexandra would never have been allowed to marry in. But, Ella did very well. Of all the Hessian Princesses who married in ( Paul's first wife, Empress Marie Alexandrovna, and Alexandra, of course), Ella did best, and became most Russian. She would have done this no matter what member of the Imperial family she married, but perhaps it was more of a challenge being Sergei's wife, although relatives saw him in a good light. Generally, MA and Miechen didn't get along, so it is interesting reading on this thread they both disliked Ella. Does anyone have thoughts on this? They were both society queens though, and Ella was a different sort of woman, so maybe that contrast explains some things. I don't think Ella's relationship to other Romanovs has ever been explored as much as her sister's relationship to other Romanovs.
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: grandduchessella on January 26, 2007, 04:08:26 PM
It was written somewhere (Roamnov Autumn?) that Miechen and Ella were close in the early years of Ella's marriage. Both were German princesses who had chosen to maintain their Lutheran background despite the pressure of belonging to such an Orthodox family. When Ella converted, Miechen apparently saw it as a betrayal and the relationship began to deteriorate from there.

Ella spent most of her life in Russia somewhat apart from the other Romanovs. Once Serge was appointed Governor-General of Moscow, there time was mostly spent there. After his death, she was somewhat secluded and then entered the convent. It seems that it was only in the early years that she was really 'in the mix' with the family.
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: imperial angel on January 26, 2007, 04:51:14 PM
I guess that explains why you never hear much about her relationships with other Romanovs. I just thought there was a bit of a gap there, but your explanation fits. I think she could have been more a part of the family in terms of what she was like, but she had different qualities than most other royalty, now or then.
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 29, 2007, 04:29:32 AM
I think Ella got along with everbody except Michen and later her sister Alicky.  ;)
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: gem_10 on January 30, 2007, 12:56:51 AM
Yes, Ella get along with almost everybody and I would like to think of her as the "Darling of St. Petersburg", at least before she moved to Moscow.
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: imperial angel on January 30, 2007, 09:09:35 AM
Yes, Ella get along with almost everybody and I would like to think of her as the "Darling of St. Petersburg", at least before she moved to Moscow.

Indeed, she did get along with most people. She had a sort of disarming quality. People would gossip about her marriage with Sergei, but they never went after her reputation as much. There were not many bad things that you could say about her, even in rumor.I don't think anyone ever said at the time she ''lived a lie'' or anything like that. That has only come later, if at all. Contemporaries generally liked with the famous exception of MP, of course.
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 30, 2007, 07:28:26 PM
Who is MP ?  ???
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: grandduchessella on January 30, 2007, 09:11:42 PM
Marie Pavlovna--I presume the younger.
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: lori_c on February 02, 2007, 10:17:09 AM
I always thought Marie F. and Sasha got along very well w/Ella.  Maybe they didn't like her after she pushed for the marriage of Nicky and Alix.  Is that it?  They liked her in the beginning though, certainly?

I know that Meichen felt betrayed by Ella's conversion.  But I thought they remained friends.   ???
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: Svetabel on February 02, 2007, 02:01:11 PM
I always thought Marie F. and Sasha got along very well w/Ella.  Maybe they didn't like her after she pushed for the marriage of Nicky and Alix.  Is that it?  They liked her in the beginning though, certainly?



Alexander III and his wife really liked GDss Ella but Empress Maria Fedorovna changed her opinion on Ella after the affair "Nicky-Alix". MF considered Ella an intrigante and had a girevance against her, though after some years their relationship became more or less easy again.
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: imperial angel on February 02, 2007, 02:12:06 PM
Was that because of how much MF hated Alexandra, which is well documented?
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: lori_c on February 02, 2007, 02:20:10 PM
I always thought Marie F. and Sasha got along very well w/Ella.  Maybe they didn't like her after she pushed for the marriage of Nicky and Alix.  Is that it?  They liked her in the beginning though, certainly?



Alexander III and his wife really liked GDss Ella but Empress Maria Fedorovna changed her opinion on Ella after the affair "Nicky-Alix". MF considered Ella an intrigante and had a girevance against her, though after some years their relationship became more or less easy again.
Thanks!  I didn't know this.  I was always under the impression Ella got along well w/them always.
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: Svetabel on February 02, 2007, 02:24:36 PM
Was that because of how much MF hated Alexandra, which is well documented?

That was mainly because MF was a very egoistic mother who believed she was the only one to decide fates of her children. The hatred (at first only dislike) to Alexandra was the second reason.
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: grandduchessella on February 02, 2007, 04:07:15 PM
AIII and MF having other princesses in mind, I can't imagine they looked upon Ella acting as a conduit between the two and actively encouraging Nicholas to pursue Alix--even after her refusal--too kindly.
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: Svetabel on February 03, 2007, 05:04:33 AM
I can't imagine they looked upon Ella acting as a conduit between the two

Probably Alexander III was more kind to Ella than MF in that question. But MF in fact considered Ella and Sergei the two who were involved in underhand intrigues concerning to Nicky-Alix. MF was mad that someone dared to decide questions that were the privacy of her OWN family - her children. The privacy of her actually as she was too egoistic and sometimes unadequate mother.
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 04, 2007, 07:45:39 PM
Yes...QV on the otherhand wasn't too pleased on the role Ella played in the Nicky-Alicky romance.  :(
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: lori_c on February 05, 2007, 08:19:50 AM
It seems that neither side of the family was pleased w/Ella's role in the Nicky and Alix situation. :(
Poor Ella.  She wanted Nicky and Alix to be happy AND she wanted her sister in Russia.  I certainly can't blame her.  Although she could never have known the ramifications, it was in her mind going to be good to have her own family in a country where she herself was so far away from home.
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: imperial angel on February 05, 2007, 11:06:23 AM
Was that because of how much MF hated Alexandra, which is well documented?

That was mainly because MF was a very egoistic mother who believed she was the only one to decide fates of her children. The hatred (at first only dislike) to Alexandra was the second reason.

Yes, MF was much like her sister in regards to parenting. It is kind of sad when you are that possessive though of your children. What makes it sadder is that she was willing to dislike Ella in the process. Ella certainly was not someone who deserved that, at all.
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: lori_c on February 05, 2007, 02:36:58 PM
Ella was certainly caught in an uneviable situation at this point.  :(
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: imperial angel on February 05, 2007, 03:57:59 PM
Yes, you could not win with MF. She had no reason to dislike Ella that was actually based on anything worthwhile yet she still did. In my opinion, she didn't dislike her as much as she disliked Alexandra. But, there was no excuse for any of it.
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 05, 2007, 07:00:29 PM
True. However as Chris Warrick wrote that during the events in 1914, Ella had reason to rue the day she brought Alickly to Russia... :(
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: lori_c on February 06, 2007, 08:43:31 AM
As often times happens in life, matchmaking can go afoul.  QV swore it off after the Ducky-Ernie situation.  But certainly NOBODY could have predicted the chain of events that led Ella and Alix to their destinies in Russia.  Ella certainly had only good intentions.  :) (As did Alix many times and was completely misunderstood because of it)
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: imperial angel on February 06, 2007, 09:24:16 AM
Indeed. Ella at least was responsible for a marriage that was personally happy, even if the political implications of it weren't of the best later. I don't think she ever regretted bringing Alexandra to Russia, although she certainly regretted the things her sister did, as she told her sister. She could not have known anything of what would happen later in  those days, so she wasn't really to blame.
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: lori_c on February 06, 2007, 01:04:42 PM
I agree.  Though any marriage to the Heir to the throne of Imperial Russia would have had political ramifications, Ella in her own mind was picking not only a complete love match, but a person of impeccable pedigree that, disregarding personality, passed every requirement to be a bride except the religion. (But conversion was common among German princess in the Romanov family, even those not in line to the throne).  So in the beginning, Ella thought she was helping, especially because the couple were so much in love.  But as we said before, who knew? :)
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: James1941 on February 06, 2007, 04:04:08 PM
Surely Ella knew by 1894 just what being in the imperial family meant, and what they were like. And surely she had some knowledge of her sister's character and attributs. Maybe not, since they were seperated by distance and had not met that frequently since Ella went to Russia. In any case, she must have had some inkling that Alexandra would not make a good empress, despite the love story. If she didn't then it was because she closed her mind to that fact, or she was increditable obtuse.
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 06, 2007, 07:41:28 PM
Yes. She did blame herself as one of the reasons was that she hoped to have a sister close by in Russia.  :(
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: lori_c on February 07, 2007, 09:12:06 AM
Anybody would, especially Ella who was only able to look at the "big picture" later on in her llife.  But, by no means was Ella narrow minded in her thinking though, imo.  Perhaps she had some of her grandmother's matchmaking gene in her and was blinded by the couple's passion for each other.  Who knows? Maybe Ella thought that Aix's character would change once she was w/the love of her life.

Alix's behavior in Hesse was judged on many factors and Ella more than likely thought that the death of their father as well as Ducky moving in were factors in Alix's personality dilemma.  Maybe she felt, getting her away from Darmstadt and into a more-than-suitable marriage would do the trick.  :)

And of course we already know how NII felt.  IMO, even without Ella's involvement, he would have held out for Allix and Alix alone.
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: imperial angel on February 07, 2007, 01:36:22 PM
Surely Ella knew by 1894 just what being in the imperial family meant, and what they were like. And surely she had some knowledge of her sister's character and attributs. Maybe not, since they were seperated by distance and had not met that frequently since Ella went to Russia. In any case, she must have had some inkling that Alexandra would not make a good empress, despite the love story. If she didn't then it was because she closed her mind to that fact, or she was increditable obtuse.

 A few points: Ella was never obtuse, on the contrary she was a very sensible and understanding person. This also goes for having a closed mind. She never had a closed mind, unlike her sister at times. She had hopes that the marriage would work out, both personally and dynastically. I think if she had truly seen signs of foreboding things in regards to her sister's personality, she would not have encouraged it. She did encourage it because she didn't see any evidence that things would not work out, and this is not evidence of a closed mind, at all. There might well have been no clues, because in my opinion much in Alexandra's character didn't come out until she was under much stress and strain in later years. Ella truly believed their marriage was a good thing, with an open mind. And she was certainly not the only reason for their marriage, unlike Queen Victoria who was one of the only reasons Ducky ever married Ernest of Hesse.
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: James1941 on February 07, 2007, 02:25:03 PM
I will differ with you to some extent. Ella seems to have been rather obtuse when it came to the marriage of her niece, Marie, to Prince William of Sweden. And Queen Victoria wasn't the only one who was against the marriage. Their father, Grand Duke Ludwig, was very much against it also. And Alix of Hesse's unsuitability for being empress was not so unknown as you maintain. When she made several visits to Russia to visit Ella, the comments from Russians who met her were invariably negative and critical. Ella could have asked around if she had wanted to get opinions. And there were people in Hessen who could have told her a thing or two about Alexandra's suitability. I suspect politics had as much to do with it as romance, having a sister married to the heir and thus one-day empress.
Queen Victoria maybe had a grasp of Ella when she wrote that if Ella was truly happy in her marriage with Serge, then why was she always having to say she was happy. People who are really happy, the old queen remarked, don't have to go about justifying it to themselves or to everybody else. She suspected that maybe not was as it seemed to appear.
And as to Ella's understanding,she seems not to have realized the situation in Russia. When she went to see Serge's assassin in prison, she asked him why he had done such a cruel thing  to a good man,and he told her a few truths. She re-acted with saying she hadn't realized such things existed.
And she saw what Serge was doing in Moscow, especially to the Jews, and remarked they would probably have to pay for it later, but like all the Romanovs she shrugged her shoulders and then went on about their merry ways. Maybe she wasn't exactly obtuse, but like most of the Romanovs she kept her blinders on.
In was only after 1905 that Ella began to become a truly caring human being and devoted herself to a truly Christian life.
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: lori_c on February 07, 2007, 02:32:35 PM
I don't think Ella was obtuse in regards to MP marriage.  She simply was doing what she thought Uncle Sergei would have wanted and what she thought was best for MP all things consindering.  She did give MP the choice which even MP admits to. 

As far as seeing Sergei's crimes against the Jews and looking the other way, perhaps she hadn't found her place, as it were, at the time.  It took the assassination of her husband to find it, to shake her out of her apathy concerning the subject.

However, I don't find Ella apathetic in general.  She was always kind and caring.  IMO she was always looking for a place for herself in regards to leading a totally devoted Christian lifestyle while trying to reconcile this to fit in her marriage.  After Sergei's death, she was free to explore whatever avenues necessary to achieve her "place". :)

Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: imperial angel on February 07, 2007, 02:45:27 PM
Ella did follow a path to become what she later was, certainly. To some extent, we are all works in progress, and she was no exception, and she did really blossom after 1905. I think Ella might not have been aware of the more negative side of her sister in Hesse which brings me to a point James1941 made, that distance was a factor. Ella might not have even known to ask around that much, because she was long gone from Hesse, how much did she visit there later? Ella I don't believe might have been aware of all the Hessian stuff. As for Russia, I guess I don't remember what people thought of Alexandra on her visits to Russia before, although certainly how she was seen after was obvious. I am just curious more about that point, because I don't recall anything of that sort, although I recall the negative stuff in Hesse.
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 07, 2007, 07:33:48 PM
Yes. Ella was going into the convent and she tried to arrange a match for MP, but it was never a forced match by any means (as letters between MP & Wilhelm showed). Had MP said no, she would be transferred as a ward to the Tsar and the Tsarina (just like her brother Dimitri). Ella was a real person with likes and dislikes, but gernerally she tried to take the high road.  ;)
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: lori_c on February 08, 2007, 09:13:10 AM
Agreed.  In everything I have ever read or learned about Ella, that's what I have thought.  Ella would never have been malicious or vindictive in any way.  She honestly thought she was making a proper offer to her neice, and at least giving her chance.  GD Paul either had no say so or simply hadn't thought about MP coming of marriage age.  Somebody had to do it.  So Ella did. :)

Alix was generally thought from the very beginning - from the time she visited Russia as a young adult that she was haughty and stiff, likening her to somebody who had "swallowed a yardstick".  This first iimpression stuck and could never be overcome by the poor woman.  Even though this stiffness was due to her inordinate shyness and lack of preparation for introduction into mighty Russian society, so unlike Darmstadt. :)
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 08, 2007, 08:42:35 PM
Indeed ! That is why I felt so sick of MP blaming her sad life in Ella. She wasn't complaining when Ella contributed to her future home in Sweden (even though she did not have that much money after her widowhood). To me she was a spoilt brat ! Dimitri fared better as he never blamed his life on others. I also think he had a better relationship with Ella than his sister.  ;)
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: lori_c on February 09, 2007, 10:09:01 AM
I agree.  But Ella wasn't in a financial bind, in fact the death of GD Sergei left her as one of the richest Grand Duchesses in the family.  If she was financially strapped it would have been after her decision to give everything away to the poor. ;)
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: imperial angel on February 09, 2007, 12:48:07 PM
Does anyone feel that Ella would have gotten along worse or better with the other Romanovs if she hadn't been in Moscow, and then after Sergei's death had a whole new life far from the typical Imperial family's lifestyle? I think she might have gotten along the same, but perhaps her relationships with other Romanovs would have defined her more, especially as Alexandra become a not very popular figure in the country, and she was Ella's sister.
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: lori_c on February 09, 2007, 03:36:31 PM
Sometimes I think the distance she had between herself and the IF gave her more of an edge.  What she said and her opinions mattered more, to the Tsar at least, because she wasn't in the middle of it all - so to speak. But if she HAD lived in St. Petersburg, I don't think it would have served Ella's purpose any less.  She adapted very well and certainly would have applied her principles there as well as Moscow. :)
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: gem_10 on February 11, 2007, 12:23:12 AM
WHat was Ella's relationship like with the Nikolaievsky and Mikhailovsky? We know that Sandro was very fond of her but about his brothers and sister? The Grand Duchess Alexandra Petrovna became a nun later in her life just like Ella. Are there any correspondence between the two? Or any reference about AP by Ella when Ella became a nun?
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: Eddie_uk on February 11, 2007, 04:16:46 AM
This cynical remark from the Empress Marie made me smile. Apparently on public occasions Ella presented herself as "a theatrical martyr, relishing the attention" drawn by her costume!
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: KarlandZita on February 11, 2007, 11:01:08 AM
Two pictures of Ella and OTMA :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/OTMA/otella.jpg)

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/OTMA/otmacarriage.jpg)
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 11, 2007, 07:18:59 PM
Oh I thought so too (about Ella's financial situation after Serge's death). However that wasn't the case at all. After Serge's death, the income from him stopped and Ella was left with much property (some of which belonged to the crown) and his belongings. Which is why Ella had to sell Serge's property & goods even had she decided NOT to become a nun. Evidently the system favours those born in the family than those married into it.   :(
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: imperial angel on February 12, 2007, 09:49:23 AM
This cynical remark from the Empress Marie made me smile. Apparently on public occasions Ella presented herself as "a theatrical martyr, relishing the attention" drawn by her costume!

I think that was more typical of Marie, actually. ;) Anyway, Ella really did not behave that way. She did everything quite sincerely, not that Marie of Romania did not, but she was more of a exhibitionist. Ella stood out among the Romanovs without being any sort of theatrical anything, in that she wasn't yet another dull German princess nor was she one of those who became very involved in society and wholly swept up in a lavish lifestyle, like Miechen or MF. She followed a path unusual among the Romanov women, which is perhaps why, despite the fact she could be very Romanov, she never become one of the Romanovs, perhaps, but was always one apart. But, that was apart in a good way.
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: Eddie_uk on February 12, 2007, 12:07:04 PM
Having been so fond of clothes and elaborate jewels I wonder if Ella ever looked back and missed the glorious privilages and possesions. Considering it was such a way of life for her and she did really love being beautifully adorned it wouldn't be suprising if she did miss it. I suppose Serge's death changed her completely and maybe as she got older she wanted different things from life.
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: lori_c on February 12, 2007, 12:37:23 PM
Oh I thought so too (about Ella's financial situation after Serge's death). However that wasn't the case at all. After Serge's death, the income from him stopped and Ella was left with much property (some of which belonged to the crown) and his belongings. Which is why Ella had to sell Serge's property & goods even had she decided NOT to become a nun. Evidently the system favours those born in the family than those married into it.   :(

Really?  I was under the impression from Hugo Mager's book that GD Serge has wealth beyond income.  He had inheritence left from his Mother and was very watchful of his money. Even though he spent quite a bit at Illinksoie, he obviously knew that it wouldn't put a dent in his wealth.
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: lori_c on February 12, 2007, 12:41:16 PM
Having been so fond of clothes and elaborate jewels I wonder if Ella ever looked back and missed the glorious privilages and possesions. Considering it was such a way of life for her and she did really love being beautifully adorned it wouldn't be suprising if she did miss it. I suppose Serge's death changed her completely and maybe as she got older she wanted different things from life.
Having been the "belle of the ball" so to speak, i often wondered if  she ever looked back and missed it.  But as she became more involved in Orthodoxy, material things meant little to her, especially aftter the GD's death
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: Eddie_uk on February 12, 2007, 01:14:52 PM
Yes it was just that she was SO materialistic, and then to go to a way of life that was completely foreign to her is incredible!

Maybe another reason for being so sumptuously attired was to please Serge? With him gone she felt little need to bother and certainly made her question her existence.
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: lori_c on February 12, 2007, 05:34:56 PM
IMO, Ella enjoyed her "sumptuous attire".  She even sketched her own gowns with impeccable taste. it is said she changed twice for each soiree that the couple threw, changing jewels just as often.

Sergei certainly showered his wife w/gifts, but Ella dressed the way she wanted to. Not so much that she didn't have to bother.  In the end, the assassination probably made her assess her life as she had lived it up till then and how frivolous it was compared to how she REALLY wanted to be.
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 12, 2007, 08:40:52 PM
I agree as she grew older, the spirtual side began to take over.  ;)
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: lori_c on February 14, 2007, 12:27:07 PM
Absolutely.  IMO, her spiritualism helped her through her grief.  And also showed her how much simpler her life could be ( not being bothered w/balls and parties and court life).  After the GD assassination, MP asserted that her room became as a nun's cell.  Devoid of anyting except bare necessities, painted completely white w/icons and a cross that held the clothes the GD was wearing when he died.  Clearly her personality drastically changed after his death.  Which leads me back to believe, that IMO she was wholly devoted to him and her marriage wasn't a sham.  Just as I believe he was devoted to her.  All marriages have problems, but Ella deferred to Sergei in every decision.  It must be noted however that he spoiled his wife beyond measure.
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 14, 2007, 09:58:27 PM
Although he did curtail her spending.  ;) Ella did also retained her appartments in the Moscow palace when official duties made it more convenient for her to use them.  :(
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: imperial angel on February 15, 2007, 11:12:22 AM
Yes it was just that she was SO materialistic, and then to go to a way of life that was completely foreign to her is incredible!

Maybe another reason for being so sumptuously attired was to please Serge? With him gone she felt little need to bother and certainly made her question her existence.

Well, I think she realized that life with Sergei was court life and all that, although she certainly enjoyed it as well. Her life was bound to change after Sergei's death, whether she had really wanted it or not. When she was married to him, she lived the life he lived, but she agreed with it as well, and did much good in Moscow, so on the basis of this I would not say she was a completely different person after Sergei's death. But, when he died, she could have either become more spiritual, as she clearly did, or more worldly, which was a path that might have fit in with her previous lifestyle at points, but which would not have come naturally. She chose to become further from the Romanov family, not more a part of it as she could have been. I don't think she could have stayed the same after his death.
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: lori_c on February 15, 2007, 06:17:17 PM
I also think this is simply Ella.  Meichen was a widow and maintained a sumptuous court rivaling the Dowager and current Empress.  She did the complete opposite.  Rather than withdraw from public life, she embraced it with all its splendor and glory.  Whereas the GD Sergei's death shook her to her very foundation.  IMO, any celebration or extravagance would have been out of the question for her.  Her mourning was very real and very sad. :(
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 15, 2007, 07:38:45 PM
Indeed...Ella really felt the loss and nothing was the same again.  :(
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: Eddie_uk on February 16, 2007, 09:01:14 AM
Whereas the GD Sergei's death shook her to her very foundation.  IMO, any celebration or extravagance would have been out of the question for her.  Her mourning was very real and very sad. :(

Do we know that for sure? They seemed a strange couple. I'm not doubting that his death was a blow to her. However maybe it just freed her to devote herself to religion. She had always been very religious.
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: lori_c on February 16, 2007, 10:47:56 AM
No we don't know for sure.  But it was my opinion based on her behavior.  It's just my assessment even looking at pictures of her in mourning.  IMO, her loss afftected more deeply than anybody could have imagined.  The look it her eyes, in my opinon, speaks volumes.

Of course there is not proof either way, but pure conjecture.  But a conjecture that certainly keeps in with everything we DOnow about Ella.
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 19, 2007, 08:21:33 AM
Yes. We can only speculate on that.  ::)
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: Eddie_uk on February 19, 2007, 01:52:23 PM
I love the look of Ellas robes in the first pic. She definitely had an eye for style! There is quite a few photos about of OTMA with Aunt Irene.
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 20, 2007, 08:06:43 PM
Yes...Although had not seen much with VMH (except for the group photos).  ;)
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: grandduchessella on February 20, 2007, 08:26:34 PM
You'd think they're around though since there are a good number, reproduced in various books, of OTMAA with their Battenberg cousins. Their mother would've been around.
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: KarlandZita on February 23, 2007, 11:52:21 AM
Ella with two of her nieces, probably Olga or Tatiana and Marie :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/OTMA/ellatea.jpg)

With Alexis and behind Tatiana :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/OTMA/ellaaat.jpg)
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 23, 2007, 07:57:12 PM
Love the tea photo !  ;) It is in the same books ? Never seen them before?  ???
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: grandduchessella on February 23, 2007, 08:27:39 PM
They're in one (or more) of the Romanov photo books.
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 23, 2007, 08:58:44 PM
Most likely from Russia I guess.  :P
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: grandduchessella on February 23, 2007, 10:56:53 PM
I think I've seen at least some of the photos in English-language ones--Love, Power and Tragedy maybe? Defnitely the Russian ones though. And if you want more work, some were published in Russian periodicals of the day--the Tercentary photos at least.
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: Alexandre64 on April 27, 2008, 02:36:24 PM
Hello,

I'd like to know if there is evidence on the meeting of the GD Elisbeth and Vladimir, according to the testimony they got on well, but when they are first met, their attitude was just such a immediately warm or a little tense?

Thank You,
Alexandre
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: Gabriella on May 16, 2011, 07:27:01 AM
What was Grandduchess Elizabeth relationsship with her aunt and sister-in-law Maria Alexandrowna afore and after the divorce of
Ernest-Louis and Victoria-Melita?
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: feodorovna on May 16, 2011, 11:56:39 AM
Somebody on this thread commented that Elizaveta and Serge were a strange couple. this echos my own feelings and from what we read, those of QV too!!! I would never seek to doubt her goodness and piety, she was undoubtedly a devout woman and a committed Christian but........might she have felt vulnerable as a widow in a louche society, and, having been subjected once to a marriage which may not have been what she hoped for, decided to permanently remove herself from the marriage "market" by taking herself into a convent where she would be safe from unwanted male interest. I'm not blaming her. I feel very strongly, that finding herself released from the type of marriage I believe she may have experienced,she wasn't about to risk another which may turn out to be similar.
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: Svetabel on May 18, 2011, 12:47:13 PM
What was Grandduchess Elizabeth relationsship with her aunt and sister-in-law Maria Alexandrowna afore and after the divorce of
Ernest-Louis and Victoria-Melita?


As it seen from the correspondence of Elizaveta and diary of her husband GD Sergei the relationship of 2 women was always sincere and the divorce of EL and VM didn't affect it.

Though it's interesting what Maria thought of Elizaveta...Let's wait for the publication of Maria's letters to her daughter Marie - something new definitely come to the light.
In Russian publication of some Maria's letters I've found Maria's words that she never loved visiting Ilinskoe with its pastoral country life and wondered how Ella was happy with all that. Also she amused that Ella didn't touch French novels and read only English - she was afraid that French was too much frivolous.
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: Clemence on May 19, 2011, 05:23:54 PM
Somebody on this thread commented that Elizaveta and Serge were a strange couple. this echos my own feelings and from what we read, those of QV too!!! I would never seek to doubt her goodness and piety, she was undoubtedly a devout woman and a committed Christian but........might she have felt vulnerable as a widow in a louche society, and, having been subjected once to a marriage which may not have been what she hoped for, decided to permanently remove herself from the marriage "market" by taking herself into a convent where she would be safe from unwanted male interest. I'm not blaming her. I feel very strongly, that finding herself released from the type of marriage I believe she may have experienced,she wasn't about to risk another which may turn out to be similar.

surely she was not to be forced to marry again against her wishes!
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: Justine on May 20, 2011, 12:35:38 PM
I wonder what was her relationship with Grand Duke Michael Alexandrovich & what was her reaction to his marriage with countess Brassova.

sorry if this question has already been asked...
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: Olgasha on May 21, 2011, 02:25:56 AM
I wonder what was her relationship with Grand Duke Michael Alexandrovich & what was her reaction to his marriage with countess Brassova.

sorry if this question has already been asked...

I don't know about her reaction to his marriage (I am curious, too), but Michael was in good terms with aunt Ella, visited her several times in her monastery (during his sevice in Orel) whenever he came to Moscow visiting Natalia Wulfert.
Quite possible that having confidence in his aunt he spoke with her about his relationship with Natasha.
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 15, 2011, 08:27:45 AM
Most likely Ella would be sympathetic, but she could also have seen the bigger picture of what it could do to the dynasty.
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: Sunny on July 14, 2011, 06:55:45 AM
I hope this is the right place to put my question.
I have read, as alla of you, about Alix and Ella arguing about Rasputin in 1916; then they won't met never again, and in the memoirs of Maria Pavlovna i have read that, at least at the begininng, Ella refused to write to her sister, pointing out that "we don't have anuthing to say anymore" (i haven't the right quotation here, but you can find it in A lifelong Passion).
But we know she did care of her sister, at last - sending her coffee in ekaterinburg. But it was Maria who wrote her aunt to say her thank you.
So i'm wondering: did ella and alix effectively gave up their relationship, didn't they never talk (or write) each other again? didn't they "!make peace" anymore? did they die still arsh to the other one? Maybe it's a stupid question, but it's going up and down my hand since one month already...
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 15, 2011, 02:39:11 PM
I think as far as Rasputin was concerned, the subject was dead between the sisters. Although they did not "break" over it, and remained concerned and care about one another. The actions you mentioned were evidence enough on that. It was a pity that they never had an opportunity to put that subject to rest, which was something was possible had they lived long enough for that to happen. For example had Ella accepted Willy's safe passage out of Russia and George V had not slammed the door to asylum for Nicholas, Alix and their family. 
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: po3a on January 14, 2012, 10:00:45 AM
What relationship if any, did Ella have with her nieces Olga, Tatiana, Maria and Anastasia?
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 14, 2012, 01:14:57 PM
Close but not too close. Alicky was very controlling in her daughter's lives. Ella had a closer relationship with her nieces Alice (mother of Prince Philip) and Louise than her Russian ones.
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: po3a on January 16, 2012, 10:21:48 AM
That is too bad.  I wonder why she let Olga Alexandrovna spend so much time with the kids and not her own sister?  I know Alix and Ella were close---I guess their relationship began to deteriorate after Sergei was murdered.  Olga Nikolaevna was 9 years old at that time---shame she did not have a strong relationship with Auntie Ella.
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: historyfan on January 16, 2012, 10:48:31 AM
I don't think Ella had the same void in her life Olga Alexandrovna had. No, she was never able to have children, but she found solace after her widowhood in religion. That was how she coped. It could be that she never expressed a desire for that kind of close relationship with her sister's children. Olga Alexandrovna, on the other hand, basically had nothing else, she was also much closer in age to the girls, and she wanted to be with the family.
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 16, 2012, 03:46:51 PM
Also Olga was less religious and political than Ella, it was on these two subjects the sisters clashed. Eventually it broke over one person : Rasputin.
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: perdita on November 09, 2012, 01:01:00 PM
There is little evidence that the Grand Duchess Ella sought close relationships with Marie, Dmitri, or Alexandra's children during her husband's lifetime. After Serge's assassination she was pre-occupied with her religious order.
Title: Re: Ella's Relationship with other Romanov family members
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 09, 2012, 01:21:17 PM
I think Ella & Dimitry got along fine, and she did reach out to Marie (even in her memoirs she said that, even though she doubt Ella was sincere though).