Alexander Palace Forum
Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => The Wittlesbachs => Topic started by: lostfan on May 31, 2005, 06:39:15 PM
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I have always been interested in Crown Prince Rupprecht, whose life seems almost like a storybook tragedy. Two of his children died in childhood, one died shortly after his thirteenth birthday. His first wife died in 1912, and his second wife, along with their five children, were imprisoned in a concentration camp during WW2.
However this seems to be the extent of the information I can locate on Crown Prince Rupprecht. Does anyone know the conditions of the deaths for the three children of his first marriage, as well as the fates of his second wife and five children? Any help would be greatly appreciated. :)
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Oh--finally an Antonia Luxemburg/Marie Gabrielle thread! (Those were the 2 wives) I've always been interested in both.
Rupprecht, Crown Prince of Bavaria (Munich 18 May 1869- Leutstetten 2 Aug 1955) was the son of Ludwig III (who was regent for years since his elder brother was insane until he finally assumed the throne in 1913 until the German Revolution in 1918) and Archducess Maria Therese of Austria.
He married Duchess Marie Gabriele in Bavaria in 1900. She was the sister of Queen Elizabeth of Belgium. Their children were: Luitpold (1901-1913 just a short time after his mother) ; Irmingard who died at 8 mos in 1903; Albrecht (1905-1996); Rudolf (1909- 1912) . Luitpold contracted polio from a playmate and died. Irmingard died of diptheria and Rudolf had diabetes I believe. There was a stillborn daughter as well. MG died in 1912 due to a longtime kidney problem. It's often thought that she basically lost her will to live after the deaths of 2 of her children (thankfully she didn't live to see her eldest die as well). A month
previous to the death of Prince Rudolf she had also lost her older sister the Duchess of Urach and in September 1912 (a month before her own death) she lost her
younger brother Duke Franz Joseph in Bavaria. Marie Gabrielle died in Sorrento, Italy, where she had gone for her health with Princess Friedrich of Hohenzollern.
Her husband Prince Rupprecht did not accompany her since he was occupied with his military duties.
Rupprecht secondly married Princess Antonia of Luxemburg in 1921 when he was 53 and she was 22. Antonia (1899-1954) was one of the 6 beautiful sisters who included Grand Duchess Marie Adelaide (who abdicated and became a nun) Grand Duchess Charlotte and Princesses Hilda, Elizabeth and Sophie. They had Heinrich (1922-1958); Irmingard (again) (b.1923); Editha (b.1924), Hilda (1926-2002); Gabriele (b.1927) and Sophie (b.1935). Antonia was imprisoned, along with several of her children, in a concentration camp on order of the Nazis. This was because Rupprecht (still a tremendously popular figure in Bavaria—a Nazi stronghold) was virulently anti-Nazi and caused a great deal of trouble. He was able to escape to Switzerland but his family was caught. Antonia was apparently never the same after this and refused to ever return to Germany after she was freed. I don’t know how this affected the marriage since Rupprecht still primarily resided in Bavaria I believe. I think Antonia preferred Switzerland. Her health was broken by her ordeal and she died at age 55.
MG and Antonia were cousins since both their mothers were Portugese Infantas.
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Regarding Antonia's imprisonment:
In August 1939 the Crown Prince went to Hungary to visit his brother Prince Franz at the Sarvar Estate. At the same time the Antonia and the younger children went to Luxembourg. When war was declared their home, Schloss Leutsetten, was seized by the German government. I don't know if he returned to Germany or not but some reports say he returned briefly at some point in 1939. He went first to Rome, and then settled in
Florence. Prince Albrecht spent most of the war years in Hungary. Antonia and their children joined Rupprecht in Italy. From what I can understand, in 1939, the Crown Prince and Princess and their children, went to Rome to attend Vittorio Emanueles 70th birthday celebrations. Once there, Hitler denied them re-entry to Germany. I'm a bit hazy on this exact period though.
After the Stauffenberg plot to assassinate Hitler in 1944, the Reich moved against its enemies. They attempted to arrest Rupprecht (who'd been under Gestapo observation for years) but he was able to elude them. For some reason, perhaps the health of one of the children?, the couple were separated and this allowed Antonia to remain within their reach. In August the Gestapo arrested Antonia and her four youngest daughters. They were charged with being involved in the von Stauffenberg plot to assassinate Hitler. In October they were ordered sent back to Germany. Rupprecht and MG's son Albrecht was also arrested and interned. The princesses and Albrecht were sent to Oranienburg-Sachsenhausen but Antonia, being ill with typhus at the time, was left behind with Irmingard. The princesses, including Irmingard, Albrecht and his family were eventually transferred to Dachau in April 1945 where they were shortly liberated by the US Army. For awhile Antonia 's whereabouts couldn't be assertained until finally her sister GDss Charlotte of Luxemburg located her after the war in the Jena prison hospital. She had been subjected to daily injections of morphine and her health broken. She had been hard to locate since she, like Princess Mafalda of Hesse, had been imprisoned under a false name.
Rupprecht meanwhile had been forced to remain in hiding in Italy. Finally he was 'liberated' by the British who sent him back to Leutsetten in November. I think he might have faced some brief questioning until it was ascertained that he was in fact anti-Nazi unlike many German royals and nobility.
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Wow, thank you tons GDElla ;D Am I right in thinking that some of Rupprecht's descendents are in the Jacobite line of succession? I think it's his grandson, or maybe great-grandson who is the current "king?"
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Yes you're correct! The Jacobite succession went as follows (the numbers reflect English & Scottish thrones, ie James II (England) and VII (Scotland):
James II and VII (1685 - 1701) [third son of King Charles I and of his wife, Princess Henrietta Maria of France he was overthrown by William of Orange and James's daugher (by his 1st marriage) Mary thus starting the controversy when they said his son James (by his 2nd wife Princess Maria of Modena) was a changeling] to his son
James III and VIII (1701 - 1766) to his son
Charles III (1766 - 1788) aka 'Bonnie Prince Charlie' to his brother
Henry IX and I (1788 - 1807) [who was actually a high-ranking Cardinal in the Catholic Church; he is buried at St Peter's Basillica in Rome; after his death, his executor Monsignor Cesarini sent the Hereditary Prince of Hanover (later the Elector George IV) several jewels from Henry's private collection including a Lesser George (thought to have been worn by Charles I at his execution, and now at Windsor ), a St. Andrew's Cross (now at Holyrood Palace in Edinburgh), and a ruby ring.]
Charles IV (1807 - 1819) [ He was the eldest son of Vittorio Amadeo di Savoia, Duke of Savoy (later Victor Amadeus III of Sardinia) and Infanta Maria Antonia of Spain (daughter of Philip V of Spain). Because of the lack of heirs, the 'succession' went back to the great-great-grandson of Henrietta Anne, youngest daughter of King Charles I father of James II] to his brother
Victor Emanuel I of Sardinia, Victor I (1819 - 1824) to his daughter
Maria Beatrice (wife of Francesco IV, Duke of Modena who was her uncle, yuck) to her son Mary III and II (1824 - 1840)
Francesco V, Duke of Modena Francis I (1840 - 1875) to his niece (daughter of his brohter Archduke Ferdinand of Austria-Este)
Maria Theresia, wife of Ludwig III of Bavaria Mary IV and III (1875 - 1919) to her son
Rupprecht, Robert I and IV (1919 - 1955) then to his son,
Duke Albrecht, Albert (1955 - 1996) followed by his son
Duke Franz Francis II (1996 - present)
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as always, a mountain of great information. thanks Grandduchess! :)
Regarding the imprisonment of royals in concentration camps, were any actually executed?
Stauffenberg was royalty, too, correct? Does he have offspring currently in royal circles? It is somewhat interesting that his failed plot in the late stages of the war/regime was the trigger point for the Nazis to come down on "their enemies". Curious why they waited so long since they were well known for not being patient or understanding for the previous 11 years.
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This was because Rupprecht (still a tremendously popular figure in Bavaria—a Nazi stronghold) was virulently anti-Nazi and caused a great deal of trouble.
Yeah, we Bavarians are still devoted to Rupprecht. Two months ago (because of his deathday on August 2nd), there was a great article about him in the biggest German nationwide newspaper, "Süddeutsche Zeitung". I´m also very interested in Marie Gabrielle and Antonia, his wifes. Would love to discuss them more here on the board!!
Rupprecht with his second wife Antonia and all his (living) children: Irmingard, Rupprecht with Editha sitting on his lap, Heinrich, Albrecht, baby Gabrielle, Antonia and Hilda
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/linnea12/RU.jpg)
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Wonderfol pictures! As I have read, you are also interested in Rupprecht´s wifes?
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Yes I am. I don't know a lot past the basics but am trying to find out more. I just ordered a book (in German) on Marie Gabrielle.
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Oh, which one? The one by Huber?
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I think so--I won it on ebay so I'll have to check the author.
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I think so--I won it on ebay so I'll have to check the author.
It´s actually the only book around about Marie Gabrielle (but there´s a lot about her in all Rupprecht books). It´s a very nice book with lots of (unpublished) photos and it´s written in the Old German way of writting.
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Linnea and I are the biggest fans of that little book ... ;D
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Actually it´s Marie Gabrielle´s birthday today! She was born on October 9th 1878 in Tegernsee, Bavaria.
(http://www.jacobite.ca/postcards/images/313.jpg)
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One portrait of Crown Prince Ruprecht!
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Crown Prince Rupprecht's daughter wrote her memoirs for the European Royal History Journal in our Issue 46 (August 2005). A very interesting document indeed.
Arturo Beéche
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Antonia Roberta Sophie Wilhelmina of Luxemburg, 9 october 1899 - 31 july 1954 was married to
crownprince Rupprecht 18 may 1869 - 2. August 1955
She had six children:
1.Heinrich Franz Wilhelm (1922–1958) oo 1951 St.Jean de Luz: Anne Marie de Lustrac (1927–1999)
2.Irmingard Marie Josepha (* 1923) oo 1950 Leutstetten: Ludwig Karl Maria von Bayern (* 1913)
3.Editha Marie Gabrielle (* 1924) 1.oo 1946 Florenz: Tito Tommaso Brunetti (1905–1954) 2.oo 1959 Tegernsee: Prof. Dr. Gustav Schimert (1910–1990)
4.Hilda Hildegard Marie (1926–2002) oo 1949 Lima, Peru: Juan Bradstock Edgart Lockett de Loayza (1912–1987)
5.Gabriele Adelgunde Marie (* 1927) oo 1953 Leutstetten: Carl von Croy (* 1914)
6.Sophie Marie Therese (* 1935) oo 1955 Berchtesgaden: Jean Engelbert von Arenberg (* 1921)
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f359/palethingirl/antonia05.jpg)
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f359/palethingirl/antonia02.jpg)
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f359/palethingirl/hochzeit01.jpg)
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(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f359/palethingirl/antonia06.jpg)
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f359/palethingirl/antonia07.jpg)
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f359/palethingirl/kinder.jpg)
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f359/palethingirl/antonia03.jpg)
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Did she love her husband, him being so much older and all? Was it an arranged marriage?
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To Aliss:
All that I have read about Rupprecht and Antonia was focused on the years they suffered the nazi´s prosecution. I can writte a lot about these rough times. I don´t know if they were married by love, but I always supposed they had strong feelings. The engagement aroused a great criticism in Luxembourg, due to the fact that Rupprecht, as a militar commander, had fought in the Battle of Lorraine, I believe...The pressure under the grand duchess Marie-Adelaïde, elder sister of Antoniette, was very strong. So, the royal family of Luxembourg had nothing to gain with the marriage between Antoniette and Rupprecht.
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Did she love her husband, him being so much older and all? Was it an arranged marriage?
They became engaged on the 50th wedding day of Rupprecht´s parents, the 20th february 1918. After a short time the engagement had to be canceled as various people in Luxembourg accused Antonia´s eldest sister Marie-Adelaide to be too friendly with Germany as also her sister Hilda was engaged with a German prince. Antonia seems to have suffered a lot because of the break off of her engagement and when she met Rupprecht again in the early 1920s they became re-engaged (with the help of some aunts) as there were no longer any political reasons against the marriage.
I don´t know if it was "real" love, Antonia was 30 years younger than Rupprecht after all. As Antonia´s father died when she was quite young, she maybe also searched for a "Vaterfigur". Who knows? :-\
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Wonderful new book in German on Crown Princess Antonia by jean Louis Schlim
Did she love her husband, him being so much older and all? Was it an arranged marriage?
They became engaged on the 50th wedding day of Rupprecht´s parents, the 20th february 1918. After a short time the engagement had to be canceled as various people in Luxembourg accused Antonia´s eldest sister Marie-Adelaide to be too friendly with Germany as also her sister Hilda was engaged with a German prince. Antonia seems to have suffered a lot because of the break off of her engagement and when she met Rupprecht again in the early 1920s they became re-engaged (with the help of some aunts) as there were no longer any political reasons against the marriage.
I don´t know if it was "real" love, Antonia was 30 years younger than Rupprecht after all. As Antonia´s father died when she was quite young, she maybe also searched for a "Vaterfigur". Who knows? :-\
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Wonderful new book in German on Crown Princess Antonia by jean Louis Schlim
Yes, it´s very beautiful with plenty of photos.
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As there is a thread about her "successor" Antonia, I thought that Crown Prince Rupprecht of Bavaria´s first wife Duchess Marie Gabrielle of Bavaria deserves a thread too!
Marie Gabrielle was the third daughter of Karl Theodor Duke in Bavaria (actually his forth girl as he had a daughter - Amélie - out of his first marriage to Sophie of Saxony) and his second wife Princess Marie José of Braganca. She married Pruince Rupprecht of Bavaria in 1900 and they had five children together; unfortunately all but one of this children died prematurely. Also Marie Gabrielle died young in 1912 due to kidney disease.
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(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/2/21/MariaGabrielleB.jpg)
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i dont know to much about this lady but the story of her life is really sad with a tragic ending :'(
although very beautiful and young she looks so sad in the above photos :(
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thanks for the thread ,would like to learn more about her if its possible.
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although very beautiful and young she looks so sad in the above photos :(
The meloncholic looks came from her Braganca heritage. Her aunt Archduchess Karl Ludwig of Austria was considered a great beauty, but"a very melancholic one". However Marie Gabrielle had reason to be melancholic as four of her five children died prematurely (she didn´t live to see her eldest son died though as he died in 1914) and since the early times of her marriage she was ill very often and had to spend a lot of time abroad, e.g. Egypt.
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Do you know if they plan on publishing it in English?
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For more pictures of Antonia of Luxemburg as Cown Princess Ruprecht of Bavaria, I recommend this interesting link :
http://www.jacobite.ca/postcards/postcards4.htm
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No. The German publisher would have to sell the rights to an American or British publisher which would have to pay for a translation - and translations usually take time .. sometimes a year or longer. A publisher would not recoup an investment with having to pay for the rights and for a translation - because the book would not sell all that many copies.
Do you know if they plan on publishing it in English?
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Princess Editha (born 1924), her first husband Tito Brunetti (1905-1954) and her three daughters Serena, Carlotta and Antonia. Tito died two years after Antonia's birth.
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/mariasophia1841/editha_fam01.jpg)
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At the moment, I can't tell you much about Marie's life, because I've never been very interested in her. Maybe you could find some mor information in a book about her husband Albrecht.
Marie - actually she was called Marita - was the only child of Dionys Draskovich von Trakostjan, Count Draskovich von Trakostjan (1875-1909) and Julia Princess of Montenuovo (1880-1961). She was born at Vienna on March 8 1904 and died at Wildbad Kreuth on June 10 1969.
Draskovich von Trakostjan was an old Austrian aristocracy, but the family had their goods and possession in Croatia. As Marie's father died in 1909 aged 34, Julia decided to marry Karl Price zu Oettingen-Oettingen und Oettingen-Wallerstein (1877-1930). That's why Marie grew up in Bavaria. They didn't have more children.
When Duke Albrecht told his father Rupprecht and his step-mother Antonia about his wish to marry Marie, they were very pleased, although there were also plans for a more dynastic marriage. They married at Berchtesgaden on September 3 1930.
Their children are:
- Marie Gabrielle Antonia José (born May 30 1931, named after Albrecht's mother, step-mother and grand-mother)
- Marie Charlotte Julia (born May 30 1931)
- Franz Bonaventura Adalbert Maria (born July 14 1933)
- Max Emanuel Ludwig Maria (born January 21 1937)
First the family lived at Kreuth, after WW II they moved to Schloss Leutstetten, where many Wittelsbachs came together, because they didn't know where else they could go.
In October 1944 Albrecht and his family were arrested in Hungary and then they were brought to the concentration camp Oranienburg-Sachsenhausen.
Princess Hilda, who was also in the camp, wrote to her father Rupprecht: One week later, Albrecht and his family arrived. They were brought to the other side. A wall and barbed wire was between us. We always looked out of the window, but we had to pretend not to know each other. It wasn't allowed to talk. 14 days later, we were allowed to see them. They had been arrested in Hungary and had been promised to be brought to a castle, too! In the camp we found out that we were here because of Hitler's personal order.
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Thanks very much for these interesting infos, and all the beautiful pictures! From the photos I only knew the one in the middle, but all the others were new to me. ;)
It´s a very tragic story that Albrecht and his family were send to a concentration camp during wartime, but they were lucky that they survived.
Do you maybe know anything about the reasons for them being send to the Oranienburg- Sachsenhausen camp? Did they participate in any acts against Hitler´s regime?
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Do you maybe know anything about the reasons for them being send to the Oranienburg- Sachsenhausen camp? Did they participate in any acts against Hitler´s regime?
To make a long story short: Hitler wanted to arrest Rupprecht, but he couldn't find him. So he decided to bring his family into the concentration camp. Antonia almost didn't survive.
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It´s interesting, but tragic, do you have any literature to recommend, where this can be found?
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I read that Ruppret and Antonia had a spat before her internment. After the war, they were seperated. Is that true ? ???
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It´s interesting, but tragic, do you have any literature to recommend, where this can be found?
You can find some information about this in every biography of Crownprince Rupprecht. I can recommend Rupprecht von Wittelsbach. Kronprinz von Bayern by Dr. Otto Kolshorn. In the new book about Crwonprincess Antonia by Jean Louis Schlim there is a whole chapter about the family's time in the concentration camp.
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After the war, they were seperated. Is that true ? ???
No, they were not seperated, but they had to live in different countries because of Antonia's illness.
After the war, Antonia spent some time in Luxemburg with her sister Charlotte, then she moved to Switzerland. Her health was so fragile that she had to live in Italy (Forte dei Marmi and Rome) from that time on. She didn't return to Germany and I also think that she didn't want to because of the terrible things that happened to her during the war. Crownprince Rupprecht lived at Schloss Leutstetten, but he visited his wife whenever it was passible for him (we have to take into consideration that he was much older than Antonia). In April 1954, three months before Antonia's death, he spent some weeks with her in Rome. On 31 July 1954 Antonia died of cancer.
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Charlotte Zeepvat said in one of the lectures about the Wittelabacjh that Ruppert and Antonia had a spat before the war, so he didn't took her with him (he escaped she didn't). After the war, they did not live togather again as man & wife...sort of like Ena & Alfonso. ???
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No, I have never heard of that. As far as I remember Schlim also doesn't mention something like that in his book about Antonia. I guess Zeepvat is wrong ... by the way: I came across her name a couple of times, but actually I don't know who she is. Is she an author or something like that? Is she focused on a special royal family?
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she wrote books about Queen Victoria 's family and the Romanovs. Very knowlegable woman. I will ask her source on that next time I meet her. ;)
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I have found this beautiful picture of Marie Gabrielle in her wedding dress:
(http://s39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/kedvesem/?action-view¤t=mariegabrielle.jpg)
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(http://s39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/kedvesem/?action-view¤t=mariegabrielle.jpg)
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Not long after the premature death of Marie Gabrielle, an attractive little memorial volume was published containing a great many photographs (P. Engelbert Huber, Marie Gabrielle Prinzessin von Bayern, Diessen, 1914). Some had been previously published on postacards, others not. I have put about 50 of these online in a webshots album, and will add more in due course:
http://news.webshots.com/album/560662343PLHmpI
She was quite exceptionally beautiful I think.
(http://inlinethumb50.webshots.com/21361/2890541140100532270S500x500Q85.jpg)
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New York Times copy of the Marriage Announcement http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=1&res=9A05EEDE1039E733A25752C1A9619C946197D6CF&oref=slogin
another article: Bavarian Royals coming to America
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9403E0D91F30E733A2575AC0A9639C946297D6CF
Thank you all for the Photographs.
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Adagietto , thanks for sharing photos with us, some of them I've never seen before, they are just wonderful. :)
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I have those 2 as well, also the one of her standing in her gown where you can see it full-length. Aren't they gorgeous? She was a truly lovely bride. :) The wedding garnered a lot of coverage in the German press, especially (naturally) in the illustrated Bavarian papers--as did her sister Elisabeth's. I had gone on a Bavarian princess spree at one point. Luckily, she's not too hard to come by--Sophie and Amelie are more so since they led less famous lives.
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Marie-Gabrielle & Maria Josefa
(http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/9671/marajosefaofportugalch1.jpg)
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With her mother at the time of her wedding:
(http://inlinethumb57.webshots.com/22328/2202387980100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)
Bride and bridegroom:
(http://inlinethumb36.webshots.com/19491/2672049270100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)
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So Maria-Gabrielle is a sister to Queen Elizabeth of Belgium?
Could anybody give information?
Thanks,
Gabriella.
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So Maria-Gabrielle is a sister to Queen Elizabeth of Belgium?
Could anybody give information?
Thanks,
Gabriella.
Marie Gabrielle had two sisters (Sophie zu Toerring-Jettenbach 1875-1957, Elisabeth Queen of Belgium 1876-1965) and a half-sister (Amélie Duchess of Urach 1865-1912).
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A basic outline of the story of her life can be found in my comments on these scans of the photographs from an old biography of her:
http://news.webshots.com/album/560662343PLHmpI
With her two sisters:
(http://inlinethumb05.webshots.com/37380/2196281670100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)
A family picture (with Prince Albert of Belgium standing next to MG's father):
(http://inlinethumb01.webshots.com/40576/2909405750100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)
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Let's talk about:
* Heinrich (1922–1958)
* Irmingard (* 1923)
* Editha (* 1924)
* Hilda (1926–2002)
* Gabrielle (* 1927)
* Sophie (* 1935)
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Wasn't Rupprecht old enough to be Antonia's father. thats just sick. She looks miserable in photos after her marriage. I would be very surprised if they had a happy marriage.
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I think there was a 20 year age difference; one of my grandfathers married a woman 20 years younger than himself as his second wife, and the marriage was a very happy one, so I can't agree that that is necessarily a sick idea! If one considers the circumstances of Antonia's marriage, it seems most improbable that she was pressured into it. When the idea was initially suggested in the latter stages of the Great War, it caused such ill feeling in Luxembourg that the marriage had to be called off; and it was only three or four years later that it finally came about, after the Wittelsbachs had lost their throne. So if she had wanted to draw back, she would surely have been able to. One should not attempt to draw too many conclusions from the formal marriage portraits of the time. Antonia looks serious not miserable, just like Rupprecht himself.
(http://inlinethumb53.webshots.com/40820/2873830740100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)
I believe someone has written a biography of Antonia, perhaps that might throw some light on the background to the marriage. On the point here, the children of the marraige, I know nothing whatever, and would be interested to learn. As always, there was such a profusion of Bavarian princes and princesses.
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Antonia became the second wife of Rupprecht, the last Crown Prince of Bavaria. The two were engaged on 26 August 1918.[2] At the time, Rupprecht was Generalfeldmarschall in the Imperial German army, and had successfully commanded the German Sixth Army at the Battle of Lorraine. This led to criticism of the close ties between the Luxembourgian Grand Ducal Family and the royalty of the German Empire at a time when Luxembourg was occupied by Germany. This added to the pressure already on Grand Duchess Marie-Adélaïde, who was forced to abdicate on 10 January 1919.[3] Despite the abdication of her elder sister, and the overthrow of the Kingdom of Bavaria in favour of a republic, the two were married on 7 April 1921 at Hohenburg Castle.
As opponents of the Nazi regime, Antonia and Rupprecht were forced into exile in Italy in 1939. From here, they moved to Hungary. When Germany occupied Hungary in October 1944, Antoinette and her children were captured, while Rupprecht, still in Italy, evaded arrest. They were imprisoned at Sachsenhausen. In early April 1945, they were moved to the Dachau concentration camp. Although liberated that same month, the imprisonment greatly impaired Antonia's health, and she died only nine years later, at Lenzerheide, Switzerland.[1]
photograph of Crown Prince Rupprecht and Crown Princess Antonia
http://artroots.com/brigitte/gifs5/antonialuxembourg1899-2.jpg
wedding photo
http://artroots.com/brigitte/gifs5/antonialuxembourg1899-3.jpg
with children:
http://artroots.com/brigitte/gifs5/antonialuxembourg1899-6.jpg
Antonia and Rupprecht had the following children:
* Prince Heinrich Franz Wilhelm of Bavaria (1922-1958). Married Anne Marie de Lustrac (1927-1999). No issue.
* Princess Irmingard Marie Josefa of Bavaria (b. 1923). Married her cousin Prince Ludwig of Bavaria (1913-2008) and has issue.
* Princess Editha Marie Gabrielle Anna of Bavaria (born 1924). Married first Tito Tommaso Maria Brunetti (1905-1954) and second Prof. Gustav Christian Schimert (1910-1990). Has issue by both.
* Princess Hilda Hildegard Marie Gabriele of Bavaria (1926-2002). Married Juan Bradstock Edgar Lockett de Loayza (1912-1987) and has issue.
* Princess Gabriele Adelgunde Marie Theresia Antonia of Bavaria (born 1927). Married Carl, Duke of Croÿ, Lord of Dülmen, and has issue.
* Princess Sophie Marie Therese of Bavaria (born 1935). Married Jean-Engelbert, Prince and Duke of Arenberg and has issue.
from: * Schlim, Jean Louis. Antonia von Luxemburg: Bayerns letzte Kronprinzessin. München: LangenMüller, 2006. ISBN 3-7844-3048-1.
* (French) Thewes, Guy (July 2003). Les gouvernements du Grand-Duché de Luxembourg depuis 1848 (PDF), Édition limitée, Luxembourg City: Service Information et Presse. ISBN 2-87999-118-8. Retrieved on 2006-06-28.
Royals and the Reich
By Jonathan Petropoulos
http://books.google.com/books?id=rJNoVaft2PoC&pg=RA1-PA73&dq=Crown+Princess+Antonia+of+bavaria&ei=BMg0SauSNoy4yAT8qNCVCw#PRA1-PA73,M1
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(http://i42.tinypic.com/2zspfdu.jpg)
Heinrich, Editha, Sofie, Hilda, Rupprecht, Gabrielle and Irmingard.
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nice looking family! Any more from this set?
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Children in 1929
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/ChildrenofCrowprinceRupprecht_1929.jpg)
And the whole family in 1935
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/CrownprinceRupprecht_family_1935.jpg)
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Sveta, where has been taken this pic "The wole family"? In 1935, prince Rupprecht of Bayern was obliged to leave München and hide because of the Nazis...Where did the family live at that moment? In 1943, princess Antonia and her five daughters were in Italia but they were arrested by Gestapo and sent to the concentration camp of Buchenwald.
REMI
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(http://i42.tinypic.com/2zspfdu.jpg)
Heinrich, Editha, Sofie, Hilda, Rupprecht, Gabrielle and Irmingard.
The picture is from the book Antonia von luxembrug,. Bayerns letzte Kronrpinzessin by jean Louis Schlimm. There is also another nice Book written from, Princess Irmingard where she tells about her youth.
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Sveta, where has been taken this pic "The wole family"? In 1935, prince Rupprecht of Bayern was obliged to leave München and hide because of the Nazis...Where did the family live at that moment? In 1943, princess Antonia and her five daughters were in Italia but they were arrested by Gestapo and sent to the concentration camp of Buchenwald.
REMI
I think he left after Sophie's birth in 1935 so the picture must be taken in Munchen.
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Many thanks, Sveta.I thought that Rupprecht escaped sooner and that Antonia and children stayed alone in München before running away towards Italy. But it is true the little Sofia was born on june 1935 in Starnberg. Consequently.....
REMI
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(http://i42.tinypic.com/2zspfdu.jpg)
Heinrich, Editha, Sofie, Hilda, Rupprecht, Gabrielle and Irmingard.
The picture is from the book Antonia von luxembrug,. Bayerns letzte Kronrpinzessin by jean Louis Schlimm. There is also another nice Book written from, Princess Irmingard where she tells about her youth.
I have this picture from the book "Bayern" from Hans Dollinger.
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It looks like all daughters inherited (is this good word in these connection?) beauty of their mother...
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Actually I think Rupprecht was 30 years older than Antonia (b. 1869 for Rupprecht and b. 1899 for Antonia).
I don't mean to go off topic (since this thread is about the children of Rupprecht and Antonia) but in all these pictures of the family of Rupprecht and Antonia where is Albrecht, the only surviving child of Rupprecht by his first wife Marie Gabrielle, Duchess in Bavaria (who happened to be Antonia's first cousin.) Albrecht was born in 1905 so that would make him only 6 years yonger than his step-mother/first cousin once removed Antonia. I would have to call that a little bit awkward.
-Duke of NJ
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but in all these pictures of the family of Rupprecht and Antonia where is Albrecht, the only surviving child of Rupprecht by his first wife Marie Gabrielle, Duchess in Bavaria (who happened to be Antonia's first cousin.) Albrecht was born in 1905 so that would make him only 6 years yonger than his step-mother/first cousin once removed Antonia. I would have to call that a little bit awkward.
When those pictures were taken Albrecht was an adult (and in 1935 had his own family already), so had his own life and home and nothing special that he was not in all the pictures with his half-siblings. Albrehct can be seen with his hafl-siblings in the photos of the middle 1920s.
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(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/mariasophia1841/antonia01-2.jpg)
Crown Princess Antonia attending the wedding of Umberto and Princess Marie José in January 1930 (Antonia was a first cousin to Marie José's mother Elisabeth in Bavaria)
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/mariasophia1841/antonia_kinder08.jpg)
Antonia with her eldest children Henrich, Irmingard and Editha
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A different picture of Antonia
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/mariasophia1841/rupprecht_antonia09.jpg)
... on a plane
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/mariasophia1841/hilda_antonia01.jpg)
... with her sister Hilda and her brother-in-law Adolf von Schwarzenberg at the beach (Forte dei Marmi)
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/mariasophia1841/antonia_sophie01.jpg)
... with her youngest sister Sophie (on the left). Antonia's daughter Irmingard wrote: "Who is the right mummy?"
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OMG, the last one with Antonia and Sophie is just incredible! Thanks for sharing. These Luxemburg sisters always looked sad and gloomy in the pictures but that one says something about them!
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I heard that Rupprecht said that Marie was extravagant and had this from her cousin Albert Taxis. Rupprecht also didn´t liked him.
Is this true??
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(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/DonaIsabella/2998081130100532270IYwPoT_ph.jpg)
Are these boys Miguel and Franz Joseph Braganza?
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(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/DonaIsabella/2998081130100532270IYwPoT_ph.jpg)
Are these boys Miguel and Franz Joseph Braganza?
This picture is shown in Huber's biography about Marie Gabrielle, right? As far as I can remember the boys are her cousins (sons of Miguel and Elisabeth Thurn und Taxis).
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Were they close friends ? (Gabrielle & her cousins)
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(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/DonaIsabella/2998081130100532270IYwPoT_ph.jpg)
Are these boys Miguel and Franz Joseph Braganza?
This picture is shown in Huber's biography about Marie Gabrielle, right? As far as I can remember the boys are her cousins (sons of Miguel and Elisabeth Thurn und Taxis).
Yes, it is from Huber. Their stands "Braganza Prinzen". And it could be them. The boy in the front has these haircut of Miguel.
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Were they close friends ? (Gabrielle & her cousins)
Could be. Marie was close to their aunt Luisa Taxis.
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(http://i39.tinypic.com/1z2oy09.jpg)
(http://i43.tinypic.com/1he58w.jpg)
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(http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/6052/3050944552cbff6ece14o.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2622/3780654680_b37be05bdc_o.jpg)
And with Antonia
(http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/1849/mpk00065.jpg)
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I really like M. Gabrielle , she has a sweet look
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(http://i39.tinypic.com/1z2oy09.jpg)
I've never seen this photo before, so I am absolutely thrilled. Thanks for sharing!
There are some pictures of Marie Gabrielle and little Luitpold, but I don't think they were taken during the same sitting. MG's dress looks different and she seems to be younger in the first pic which was taken in 1903. Also Luitpold, born in 1901, looks older than two years in the pic.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3568/3682651946_0d0d07ce55_o.jpg)
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Ghostly memorial card of Marie Gabrielle
(http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/7783/foto0105r.jpg)
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Princess Marie-Gabrielle with her sons Liutpold and Albrecht
(http://sitesweb.dnsalias.net/images/Sn/PcessRup.jpg)
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It is interesting that her nephew King Leopold III who looked very much like her in features...
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A nice image of Gabrielle and son Luitpold,. From the ANNO
(http://i47.tinypic.com/2wltr9i.jpg)
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Lovely picture of mother and child.
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Marie-Gabrielle is such a beautiful lady! And Luitpold and Albrecht were beautiful boys as well! Lovely pictures!
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Tragic that only one boy survived from that lovely family.
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Wedding picture
(http://i47.tinypic.com/w8q96v.jpg)
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Quite a popular postcard.
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Marie Gabrielle smiling!
(http://inlinethumb59.webshots.com/43770/2041336220100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)
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Marie Gabrielle smiling!
That's just a detail of a photo shown in Huber's biography about Marie Gabrielle.
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That's where I got it from; here's the full picture:
(http://inlinethumb43.webshots.com/18282/2621272910100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)
It dates from 1900.
For anyone who is interested, I have put scans of most of the pictures from Huber's book online here:
http://news.webshots.com/album/560662343PLHmpI
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She does have a nice smile. ;)
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Marie Gabrielle
(http://i45.tinypic.com/2ppyamb.jpg)
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Her profile is beautiful. :)
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Interesting to compare with her mother's profile:
(http://inlinethumb64.webshots.com/30399/2761914240100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)
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The daughter is prettier. ;)
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Indeed, and she was prettier than her sisters too; in fact the prettiest princess of her generation in my view!
(http://inlinethumb05.webshots.com/37380/2196281670100532270S600x600Q85.jpg)
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The daughter is prettier.
Well, I don't think that Marie Gabrielle's looks are comparable with those of her mother Marie José. The daughter was a blond with blue eyes and Marie José inherited the dark features of her parents.
In my opinion Marie Gabrielle was a pretty girl and young woman, but her fragile health and the loss of her children made her look unhappy, sad and exhausted.
Anyway, she was the most beautiful daughter of Carl Theodor. Amélie looked a lot like her mother Sophie of Saxony, Sophie was quite featureless and Elisabeth had that longish face I will never get used to.
I have always prefered Marie José - she's one of my all time favourites. :-)
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Poor M G did have her troubles! But it is the fragility of her beauty that, to me, makes it so touching. She seems to have had an appealing personaliy too.
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Sorry I mixed it up with another thread.
Marie Jose looked too Portuguese for my taste. I like the blond Gabrielle better. Her nephew Leopold III looked just like her.
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I take it that no one has written a biography of Marie Gabrielle since Huber?
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I take it that no one has written a biography of Marie Gabrielle since Huber?
A historian I know wanted to write a new biography, but Duke Franz of Bavaria, Marie Gabrielle's grandson, was against it. He doesn't want historians to have access to the family archives in Tegernsee. But the Duke told my friend that he would highly appreciate a photo book about Marie Gabrielle. It's a pity.
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Is he this one who was adopted, because the Dukes in Bavaria had no sons?
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What a shame; it must be a hindrance to any research about the recent history Bavarian royal family if they are reluctant to grant access to the family archives. A good photo book wouldn't be a bad idea though, if very much a second best.
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Is he this one who was adopted, because the Dukes in Bavaria had no sons?
No, Duke Ludwig Wilhelm in Bavaria, Carl Theodor's son, adopted Prince Max Emanuel, Albrecht's second son, because he didn't have any children. But, as you maybe know, Max Emanuel has 5 daughters ...
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Another adoption maybe necessary. ;)
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Ah, yes. Thaks Marie. I confused them.
What could an author write about Marie Gabrielle? And why is Franz of Bavaria against it so much?
Not everybody has a clean slate. But Marie Gabrielle? Or he don´t wants that people mess in privacy.
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Antonia
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1270/609981862_d9b9294433_o.jpg)
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Wearing the beautiful lovers-knot tiara...
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(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4094/4799801827_755e279c01_b.jpg)
Antonia and her children.
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Lovely image...I forgot the names of her kids...
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There were so many of them that your forgetfulness is entirely forgivable!
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Thanks. I think one of her daughters was named Immingrad who wrote her memoirs. I saw it when I was in Munich.
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Heinrich was the only boy I think, and there was also Editha, Gabrielle, Hilda and another whom I forget. I have acquired quite a few postcards of these children recently, I will post some when I have scanned them.
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Thanks ! Looking forward to it.
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Thanks. I think one of her daughters was named Immingrad who wrote her memoirs. I saw it when I was in Munich.
Their names are Heinrich (1922-1958), Irmingard (born 1923), Editha (born 1924), Hilda (1926-2002), Gabrielle (born 1927) and Sophie (born 1935).
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Thanks Marie. ;)
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I don't know if it has been writen but how did Marie Gaberielle died?
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I think she suffered from a kidney failure.
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I don't know if it has been writen but how did Marie Gaberielle died?
I think she suffered from kidney failure.
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It was kidney failure.
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Rupprecht
(http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/4170/dp72096.jpg) (http://img231.imageshack.us/i/dp72096.jpg/)
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Rupprechts eldest daughter Irmingard died Saturday, the 23.10.2010, at the age of 87.
http://www.noblesseetroyautes.com/nr01/?p=40575
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The one who wrote her memoirs.
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Ruprecht
http://img231.imageshack.us/i/dp72096.jpg/
Beautiful portrait ! Since I know better his life I really admire this man ! Thank You for sharing
A thought to Irmingard, rests in peace :(
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http://www.bunte.de/royals/irmingard-prinzessin-von-bayern-sie-starb-im-alter-von-88-jahren_aid_20882.html
She looked so much like her father!
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http://www.bunte.de/royals/irmingard-prinzessin-von-bayern-sie-starb-im-alter-von-88-jahren_aid_20882.html
She looked so much like her father!
Quite a bit yes.
Daughter of Ruprecht and Antonia and aunt of HRH Duke Franz,the present Head of the Bavarian RF.
The Princess's interment will be within the closest family circle,on thursday november 4th a Requiem
will be held in the Theatinerkirche,Munich.
http://www.royaltyguide.nl/countries/germany/munich/theatinerkirche.htm
courtesy Mardam.
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http://www.bunte.de/royals/irmingard-prinzessin-von-bayern-sie-starb-im-alter-von-88-jahren_aid_20882.html
She looked so much like her father!
Quite a bit yes.
Daughter of Ruprecht and Antonia and aunt of HRH Duke Franz,the present Head of the Bavarian RF.
The Princess's interment will be within the closest family circle,on thursday november 4th a Requiem
will be held in the Theatinerkirche,Munich.
http://www.royaltyguide.nl/countries/germany/munich/theatinerkirche.htm
courtesy Mardam.
That will be the official Requiem. The actual funeral took place last Friday 29.10. at Kloster Andechs and afterwards she was buried at the Wittelsbacher buril Ground down the Hill at Andechs: See here my pics: http://royaltravel.blogspot.com/2009/11/wittelsbacher-burial-ground-at-andechs.html
The same was done when her husband died 2 years ago. First the actual fuenral in private and later an official Reqiem at the Theatinerchurch at Munich.
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(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1358/5147239506_7443eaaa30_b.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4037/5147239870_f8399b3b4c_b.jpg)
Antonia.
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WOW !!! Beautiful photos Thanks for sharing I really like the second one
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She was hauntingly beautiful ! :)
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(http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/3243/60014704.jpg) (http://img710.imageshack.us/i/60014704.jpg/)
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He was a charming man ! ::)
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Yet...I heard they had an arguement that led to a seperation between the couple.
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Yet...I heard they had an arguement that led to a seperation between the couple.
Yes, I heard the same thing, but I don't know any of the specifics. Do you?
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Yes. Not a happy end to the marriage. The Crown Princess was later taken as a prisoner where her health was greatly affected. After the war she lived with her daughter I think.
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Here is the Daily Telegraph obituary for Princess Irmingard, eldest daughter of Rupprecht and Antonia.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/8118338/Princess-Irmingard-of-Bavaria.html
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(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1151/5161426653_87b03ab5fc_b.jpg)
Princess Irmingard as a child, with her elder brother Prince Heinrich.
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(http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/1411/bunte.jpg)
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I think this one belongs from their engagement session
(http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/3351/00504884.jpg) (http://img560.imageshack.us/i/00504884.jpg/)
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Yes it is. ::) ::) They were lovely !!!!
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(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5249/5218991663_353ec28dd5_z.jpg)
Rupprecht and Antonia.
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(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5250/5219262419_8aacdf5b70_z.jpg)
Marie-Gabrielle.
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She liked to surround herself with a lot of flowers !!! ::) ::)
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Gabrielle
(http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/5138/00504898.jpg) (http://img140.imageshack.us/i/00504898.jpg/)
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About Pss Irmingard.
She married her first cousin Pr. Ludwig.
The couple had one son and, in a row, two daughters that died at childbirth.
Anyone know the reasons for the immediate death of the two little princesses ?
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Can someone translate what does it say? Thanks!
(http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/9734/ruphieb.jpg) (http://img89.imageshack.us/i/ruphieb.jpg/)
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Those people looks like Scotsmen in kilts ?
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They are scotsmen in kilts. Its relative to the WWI
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He was actually the Stuart candidate for the British throne. The claim came from his mother I think.
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Yes, this was explained thoroughly by grandduchessella in reply 4 of this thread.
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The picture in Message 149 is very clearly staged, rather than being a genuine front-line picture. Highland troops in WW1 wore khaki like the rest of the British Army, with khaki 'aprons' over their kilts.
Not sure which tartan it is, but possibly Royal Stuart or Cameron.
Ann
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It was probably a propaganda photo relating to his claim on the Stuart claim ala 'Look what your 'rightful' King is doing to your fellow Scots.' The message looks like it was a quote from Rupprecht--perhaps some kind of battle call against British units that were fighting?
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It is strange...propaganda.
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Albretch
(http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/1971/scan00549.jpg) (http://img405.imageshack.us/i/scan00549.jpg/)
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(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5172/5550916194_91c2375a88_b.jpg)
Rupprecht and Antonia with their children.
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Marie Gabrielle by Kaulbach
(http://i53.tinypic.com/n4bjf8.jpg)
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This portrait is wonderful and completely new !!!! Thank You for posting ::) ::)
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(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5256/5565568915_0ba7626e35_b.jpg)
Antonia at the time of her engagement.
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Antonia and one of her kids
(http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/7781/kugi.jpg) (http://img839.imageshack.us/i/kugi.jpg/)
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Marie Gabrielle by Kaulbach
Fantastic one!!! :o But I always thought that Marie Gabrielle was blonde, nice new to know that in fact she was red haired, as the painting shows!! :D
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(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5269/5616663739_031a5b4ae1_b.jpg)
Antonia and Rupprecht.
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5303/5616663737_a57088e014_b.jpg)
Antonia with her two oldest children, Heinrich and Irmingard.
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(http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/4628/kdkvnd.jpg) (http://img29.imageshack.us/i/kdkvnd.jpg/)
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(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5202/5731288431_f16babfee6_b.jpg)
Antonia and Rupprecht with his son Albrecht.
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Marie Gabrielle with mother MAria Jose and sister and Elisabeth, posing with Kronprinz Wilhelm and Prinz Eitel Friedrich of Prussia
(http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/2380/foto0023fh.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/29/foto0023fh.jpg/)
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Ready for a trip to the mountains! I understand that the whole family loved the walks in the mountains, and in Bavaria there are many, beautiful.
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Marie Gabrielle and her kids
(http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv226/KaiserinAlzbeta/Old%20Days/momandkids.jpg)
Marie Gabrielle alone
(http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv226/KaiserinAlzbeta/Old%20Days/gabrieell.jpg)
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Leopold III of Belgium who was the nephew of Marie Gabrielle looked very much like her in his good looks.
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Drawing, Marie Gabrielle
(http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt94/KaiserinCharlotte/Vintage%20Dreams/3842949882_078693fb4e.jpg)
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Marie Gabrielle and baby
(http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv226/KaiserinAlzbeta/Old%20Days/MGB1.jpg)
Marie Gabrielle alone
(http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv226/KaiserinAlzbeta/Old%20Days/MGB.jpg)
(http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv226/KaiserinAlzbeta/Old%20Days/MGB2.jpg)
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Was she close to her aunts Maria Sofia & Mathilde ?
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A young Prince Rupprecht, from my collection
(http://i51.tinypic.com/14e786g.jpg)
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Wedding picture
http://i47.tinypic.com/w8q96v.jpg
Biggest wedding day of Rupprecht and Antonia
(http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/7409/rupprechtetonyweddayxfl.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/7/rupprechtetonyweddayxfl.jpg/)
Click on photo to see it largest
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Interesting that in 1921 Rupprecht was wearing General's uniform, as were some of the guests.
He was a distinguished-looking man.
Ann
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(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7001/6518291161_a81dd2f08e_b.jpg)
Antonia.
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(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7155/6554992849_a7241f2b91_o.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/gabry10/6554992849/)
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(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7023/6838601999_72906f6dd4_b.jpg)
Marie-Gabrielle with Luitpold.
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They both look a bit startled!
Ann
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(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7192/6985804303_acaf2b23a7_z.jpg)
Marie-Gabrielle with Luitpold again. You're right, Kalafrana, they did look kind of startled in that last picture ;)
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Does anyone know if there is a good biography about Marie Gabrielle of Bavaria? I have read many subjects and facts about her life, but good not find a book by using google or else.
Thanks!
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Does anyone know if there is a good biography about Marie Gabrielle of Bavaria? I have read many subjects and facts about her life, but good not find a book by using google or else.
Thanks!
There is Marie Gabrielle Prinzessin von Bayern by Dr. P. Engelbert Huber, but it's an old book (published in 1913), and it's only available in German.
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A recent visit with the last daughters of Crown Prince Rupprecht of Bavaria.
http://erhj.blogspot.com/2012/05/three-bavarian-princesses.html (http://erhj.blogspot.com/2012/05/three-bavarian-princesses.html)
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Yesterday, July 10, was the anniversary of the marriage of Rupprecht and Marie Gabrielle in 1900
(http://i47.tinypic.com/e80jsk.jpg)
Scan from my personal collection of old postcards
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I adore that photo Therry, a beautiful woman wearing a beautiful dress!! :)
The Crown Prince and Princess
(http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt94/KaiserinCharlotte/DarlingSissi/LuitpoldAndGabrielle.jpg)
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She was a very beautiful woman with sad eyes.
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(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7139/7817113532_a0bb7da08e_z.jpg)
Rupprecht and Antonia with their children.
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Rupprecht looks more like grandfather than father here, not surprisingly, as he must have been in his 60s by then.
Not so unusual in fact. My paternal grandparents married aged 48 and 41, and in a picture showing them on holiday at Llandudno with their two children (aged about five and three) they really do look like grandparents.
Ann
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He was also much older than his second wife too.
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He was also much older than his second wife too.
Yes, that's who we were talking about ;)
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I wonder if he could relate to his children, I read that their marriage fell apart at the end.
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I believe his marriage to Antonia fell apart as a result of what she endured as a prisoner in the concentration camp during World War II. Perhaps she resented him because she and the children were imprisoned while he eluded capture. Pure conjecture, but an interesting thought.
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Mere age does not preclude a father from relating to his children. From all my father says he had a very happy relationship with his father, for all the 50 years between them (admittedly, they seem to have been quite similar in character and interests). When Dad was a teenager they used to share library books, and for years my father used to walk the dog to the tram stop to meet my grandfather from work for a little 'chaps' time' (with three girls, plus my grandmother, it was a somewhat female-dominated household).
Ann
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Every case is different although an older father may not adapt to a younger child in some cases. Actor Daniel Day Lewis had an older father and he always felt distant towards him.
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Indeed, it all depends on the individuals concerned. My grandfather did apparently, set about teaching his children to read and working on their spelling when they were quite small (he seems to have been a serious-minded man and particularly concerned that they should have a good education - he had left school at 13 himself). My father also remembers being taken along with him on odd visits before he went to school (as I do with my father) - presumably to give his mother a break as much as anything.
But in any case, back in the 1920s, when Rupprecht was producing his second family, men weren't expected to be all that interested in infants. If Rupprecht was a good provider, provided discipline where needed and set them an example, that was all that was needed.
Interestingly, George V (29 when his eldest child was born) seems to have been quite the hands-on father when his children were infants (giving them baths and the like), but distance developed when they got older.
Ann
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Yes. Those were the times when a distant father was expected. Must read Immengrad's memoirs to get more clues. Put it off as it was in German.
Not really, George V was never a hands on father, at least according to his eldest son. But in that case, neither was Queen Mary. The only doting figures to the children were the grandparents. Both Edward VII and Queen Alexandra spoiled the grand children.
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According to Philip Ziegler's biography of the Duke of Windsor, George V was noticeably doting when his children were small. Ziegler quotes some letters of his which verge on the nauseating.
More interestingly, we learn from another thread that the marriage between Antonia's sister Charlotte and Felix of Bourbon Parma was initially very unpopular in Luxembourg because Felix had served in the Austrian army. How did the Luxembourgers view Antonia's marriage to Rupprecht, who had not been a mere subaltern but a Field Marshal! And how did Antonia get on with Rupprecht's son Albert, who was only six years younger than she was?
Ann
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Well...It is always easy to be nice to a cute baby or a lovely woman, bur not to a boy or a man. That is the case with George V. He was very lenient with Elizabeth & Marina.
Interesting. I read they got along fine.
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The topic of George V as a father is more nuanced & complex than 'he didn't get along with his kids' but does belong on the correct thread.
As for Antonia's marriage, they engaged prior (in 1918) and the engagement was either broken or postponed because of the anti-German sentiments of the Luxemburgers towards the groom. This proposed tie of the Luxemburg ruling family with a German royal helped feed the sentiment against Grand Duchess Marie Adelaide which led to abdication months later. The couple finally married in 1921. Didn't her sister (Sophie?) also have a broken engagement to a Wurttemberg Duke for the same reason?
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The topic of George V as a father is more nuanced & complex than 'he didn't get along with his kids' but does belong on the correct thread.
As for Antonia's marriage, they engaged prior (in 1918) and the engagement was either broken or postponed because of the anti-German sentiments of the Luxemburgers towards the groom. This proposed tie of the Luxemburg ruling family with a German royal helped feed the sentiment against Grand Duchess Marie Adelaide which led to abdication months later. The couple finally married in 1921. Didn't her sister (Sophie?) also have a broken engagement to a Wurttemberg Duke for the same reason?
Actually, it was Hilda who had been engaged to Philipp of Wurttemberg; she later married Adolph of Schwarzenberg, but not until 1930, when she would have been thirty-three or so (I've always wondered why she married at such an "advanced" age when, according to Marlene's blog, she was one of Europe's wealthiest princesses). Sophie's husband was Prince Ernst-Heinrich of Saxony. But you'd think that match wouldn't have been popular in Luxembourg, either?
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Thanks. Was it the Luxembourgers or the Wittelsbachs who broke off the engagement? I imagine it was the Luxembourgers or a joint effort, as it was 'not done' then for a man to break off his engagement.
But the marriage took place less than three years after the end of the war, when memories were still raw. Did the Luxembourgers reconcile themselves fairly quickly to Felix, so making the way open for Antonia to marry Rupprecht?
Albert was 16 when his father remarried, an awkward age, even if his stepmother had not been of his generation rather than his father's. So how they all got on is an interesting question. And what about relations between him and his much younger half-siblings? awkward, for him to be the only survivor of the first marriage, and then faced with quite a crowd of half-brothers and half-sisters.
Ann
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(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8451/8034422315_c5f2a71382_z.jpg)
Antonia.
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Today, October 9, is the anniversary of the birth of Marie Gabrielle of Bavaria
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8318/7993205974_62f25e07fc_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/gabry10/7993205974/)
Smiling Princess (http://www.flickr.com/photos/gabry10/7993205974/) di WGABRY (http://www.flickr.com/people/gabry10/), su Flickr
http://donnenellastoria-wgabry.blogspot.it/2011/05/marie-gabrielle-wittesbach.html One of my Blog
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And Sunday, October 7th, was the anniversary of the birth of Princess Antonia :)
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My personal and affectionate tribute to the hundredth anniversary of the death of Princess Marie Gabrielle of Bavaria. October 24 1912
http://donnenellastoria-wgabry.blogspot.it/2012/10/omaggio-100-anni-dalla-sua-scomparsa.html
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(http://image2.findagrave.com/photos/2012/77/22783484_133207069030.jpg)
Herzogin Marie Gabrielle in Bayern, Prinzessin von Bayern
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Rupprecht wrote about his WW I experiences post war "In Treue Fest Mwin Kriegstabuch" 3 volumes some of the daily entrys are in the book "The German Army at Cambrai" by Jack Shelton.
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Was that book published recently ?
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The book by Rupprecht is called: In Treue fest, Mein Kriegstagebuch.
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Still in print ?
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The books (3 volumes) were only printed in 1929 and since then have never been reprinted im Germany.
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Sad...Can't do research on them. :-(
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The books can be found online for sale--they were on ebay not too long ago for 30Euro.
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Ebay Germany ?
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Yes
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thanks.
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(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8198/8200231620_c40e5aec7c_o.jpg)
Rupprecht and Antonia's children with their grandmother, Maria Anna of Luxemboug (Braganza).
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A very beautiful and new photo Thanks
Maria Anna was the sister of the first mother-in-law of Prince Rupprecht
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All her daughters married well like she and her sisters. Through them the Portuguese blood of the Braganzas reached the major Catholic houses of Europe.
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(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5338/9341365876_4130c50d7f_o.jpg)
Rupprecht and Marie-Gabriele at the time of their engagement.
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5456/9338585059_e6bb61c0ed_o.jpg)
Marie-Gabriele.
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(http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/5148/t02k.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/607/t02k.jpg/)
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He looked sad...
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The series was taken for his 80th (?) birthday celebrations. He'd seen and lost a lot in those years--including 3 children and 2 wives.
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Indeed. Rupprecht had not had an easy life. There was all the political upheaval as well as his personal losses.
Ann
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(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3947/15664006882_66cc12d66c_o.jpg)
Marie-Gabrielle.
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She's like a fairytale princess...
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Same new photos from my collection
(http://i.imgur.com/wG76RIZ.jpg)
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(http://i.imgur.com/R0KWOKQ.jpg)
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(http://i.imgur.com/k9HvXq7.jpg)
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(http://i.imgur.com/vJYZFvd.jpg)
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There is a bio of Rupprecht called "Haig's Enemy" by John Bott that is coming out according to Amazon
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John Bott is doing the Kaiserschalacht-twitter
@CrownPrinceRupp on the German view of the 1918 offensives
@Kaiser's Battle
@RFC19181
I put this on Holltzoren (sic) section and decided to put it here as well