Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => The Hohenzollern => Topic started by: Marc on July 03, 2005, 07:20:34 PM

Title: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Marc on July 03, 2005, 07:20:34 PM
I would like to know much more about Kings and Queens of Hannover!It seems that they stayed in shadow of their British cousins...
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Marc on July 03, 2005, 07:30:50 PM
Does anybody have any colour portraits of his wife Queen Marie,their son Ernst August of Cumberland or his wife Crown Princess Thyra,sister of Alexandra and Dagmar?
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: grandduchessella on July 03, 2005, 08:07:07 PM
I've seen a portrait of Thyra but only in a b&w photograph. It was in the background of a photo of Minny in old age sitting in her room at Hvidore. It's a portrait that sits on an easel behind Minny. I was always taken aback at its prominence considering Thyra didn't seem that close to her sisters. It seems the most prominent in the photo but I don't know what else might have been in the room.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Prince_Christopher on July 03, 2005, 10:27:15 PM
King Ernest Augustus I and Queen Frederica of Hanover, two of my favorite pre-Victorian royals.

Ernest (aka The Duke of Cumberland), inherited the throne of Hanover from his brother William IV, as due to the Salic law, Victoria could not inherit in Germany.

He was an autocrat, very reactionary, and almost lost his throne.  

He was seen as an evil person in his own time, people on the street avoided him.  He had an eye missing and was suspected in the murder of his valet.

He married his first cousin, Frederica of Mecklenburg-Strelitz and they began to try to produce an heir, even before the death of Princess Charlotte.  He was one step ahead of the Great Marriage Race between his brothers.

His marriage was not approved of by anyone in England, including Queen Charlotte, who was the aunt of Frederica, and for good reason.

Frederica was suspected in the murder of not one but two previous husbands!  They were 1.)Prince Louis of Prussia, who, although they divorced in 1796, died mysteriously soon after, in the same year.  2.)Prince Frederick of Solms-Braunfels, who also died mysteriously and conveniently just in time for Frederica to marry Ernst and produce an heir.  She had 8 or 9 children by the first two hubands.

She was notorious in Germany and England, always involved in various intrigues and affairs.

She and Ernest continually schemed and plotted for the throne of Great Britain, their ultimate prize.

However, they had to settle for Hanover, and she spent the last 4 years of her life as a queen.

King Ernst spent much time in England, bothering his neice Queen Victoria as much as possible and even suing her for Princess Charlotte's jewels, which he believed belonged to the Crown of Hanover.

Ernst and Frederica had one surviving child, George, or "Blind George", who succeeded his father in 1851 as King George V of Hanover.  

George V married Marie of Saxe-Altenberg and had: Ernst August II (married Thyra), Frederica (Baroness Pawel-Rammingen), and  Mary, who died young.

Blind George was deposed in 1866.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Prince_Christopher on July 03, 2005, 11:32:52 PM
Ernest Augustus (II), son of Blind George, married Princess Thyra of Denmark.  He was Crown Prince of Hanover and Duke of Cumberland.

Their children:
Mary Louisa (1879-1948) married Maximilian, Margrave of Baden

George William, Earl of Armagh (1880-1912)

Alexandra (1882-1963) married Frederick Francis IV, Duke of Mecklenburg-Schwerin

Olga (1884-1958)

Ernest Augustus III, Duke of Brunswick-Luneberg and Prince of Hanover (by this time they'd lost the English titles)(1887-1953) married Victoria Louise of Prussia, daughter of Willy and Dona.

Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Prince_Christopher on July 03, 2005, 11:35:45 PM
Children of Ernest Augustus III and Victoria Louise:

Ernest Augustus IV, George William, Frederica (Queen of Greece), Christian, and Guelph Henry.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: TampaBay on July 08, 2005, 07:59:05 PM
Any pictures of the current Ernst of Hanover and his wife (and Children) Caroline of Monoco.  Anybody have and info on why his first marriage failed.  Was not his first wife a commoner?

Who is the current heir and how old is he?  Pictures?

TampaBay
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Marlene on July 08, 2005, 08:51:41 PM
Quote
Any pictures of the current Ernst of Hanover and his wife (and Children) Caroline of Monoco.  Anybody have and info on why his first marriage failed.  Was not his first wife a commoner?

Who is the current heir and how old is he?  Pictures?

TampaBay


Caroline and CHantal were good friends.  Chantal had tolerated her husband's infidelties until he went public with his affair with her good friend, Caroline.  Ernst August has also had a serious substance abuse problem, and was recently seriously ill .. he's apparently given up the booze.  If he drinks again, it will kill him.

His heir is his eldest son, Ernst August, born in 1982.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: TJ Jones on July 09, 2005, 04:38:18 AM
If Caroline becomes Princess of Monaco will the house name be changed to Hannover?!
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: TampaBay on July 09, 2005, 07:54:07 AM
Quote
If Caroline becomes Princess of Monaco will the house name be changed to Hannover?!


No the "House" name will stay Grimaldi (Spelling?).

TampaBay
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: RomanovFan on July 11, 2005, 07:08:39 PM
Yes, the house name Grimaldi (you spelled that right. :) ) will remain the same. Princess Caroline is referred to as Priness of Hanover because that title outranks her title in Monaco.  Traditionally, in Monaco she is HSH Princess Caroline Louise Margeurite Grimaldi of Monaco. Since the HRH title outranks that, she is called HRH Princess Caroline of Hanover. Her hubby is the current head of the house of Hanover, Prince Ernst. Their daughter Alexandra is somewhere in line for the British throne as well as Monaco's. Also, Princess Alexandra is the only child of Princess Caroline to hold a royal title.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: grandduchessella on July 11, 2005, 10:24:38 PM
Here's a picture of Caroline in one of the family tiaras

http://www.royal-magazin.de/german/hannover/hannover-blueten-diadem-1.htm
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: jackie3 on July 12, 2005, 12:46:10 AM
Quote
Their daughter Alexandra is somewhere in line for the British throne as well as Monaco's.


I've wondered about that (Alexandra being in line for Monaco). I know there's little chance that Alexandra will be reigning princess of Monaco (what with 3 older half-siblings) but she's being raised a Lutheran (the religion of the House of Hannover) while Monaco is offically a Roman Catholic Country (in it's constitution) that has never had a non-RC at its head. Is that going to be a problem on the very rare chance Alexandra succeeds to Monaco?
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Prince_Christopher on July 13, 2005, 03:21:44 PM
Anyone know anything about Ernest August's brother who committed suicide in 1988?
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Prince_Christopher on July 13, 2005, 10:49:22 PM
His brother's name was Louis Rudolph (I just went and looked it up) and his wife was Countess Isabella von Thurn und Valsassina and she also died in 1988.  They had only been married the previous year.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: RomanovFan on July 15, 2005, 06:53:04 PM
Quote

I've wondered about that (Alexandra being in line for Monaco). I know there's little chance that Alexandra will be reigning princess of Monaco (what with 3 older half-siblings) but she's being raised a Lutheran (the religion of the House of Hannover) while Monaco is offically a Roman Catholic Country (in it's constitution) that has never had a non-RC at its head. Is that going to be a problem on the very rare chance Alexandra succeeds to Monaco?

It might be. I'm not sure. I always forget that religion is a factor for monarchs. ;) There's a good chance that she will not succeed in Monaco, because her older brothers and sister will likely have kids when they're older. Even if Prince Albert's kids aren't in line for the throne, they'll (Charlotte, Pierre and Andrea) still be because they're considered legitamate.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Frederika on July 16, 2005, 06:52:17 AM
 princess Isabella died of an overdose in 1988  prince
Ludwig Ruldof found his wife dead and commited suicide with a rifle in the woods on the family estate they had a son Otto who was only 3 or 4 months old :-/
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Prince_Christopher on July 16, 2005, 09:03:53 AM
That is just too too sad....
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: allanraymond on July 26, 2005, 01:01:57 PM
Quote
princess Isabella died of an overdose in 1988  prince
Ludwig Ruldof found his wife dead and commited suicide with a rifle in the woods on the family estate they had a son Otto who was only 3 or 4 months old :-/


To part quote from Marlene Eilers Queen Victoria's Descendants book.

Isabelle, died of a drug overdose on 28 November 1988. Ludwig-Rudolf tried to revive her with mouth-to-mouth resuscitation before calling for an ambulance.

Ludwig Rudolf then telephoned his brother Ernest August in London telling him of his wife's death and requesting him to look after his eight month old son Otto-Heinrich (born 13 February 1988).  Ludwig Rudolf then drove 15 miles to near the family's hunting lodge where he was found hours later having shot himself with a hunting rifle.

Ludwig Rudolf and his wife had been married for just over one year and her tragic life was curtailed at the  young age of 26.

Allan Raymond



Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: allanraymond on July 26, 2005, 01:17:38 PM
Quote



A nice photo of those children with their mother Thyra and grandparents King Christian IX and Queen Loiuse 1886

(http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/1089/thyraandchildren18867hn.jpg
)





One child is missing from the list. Ernst August and Thyra had six children. Prince Christian of Hanover (1885-1901) is missing and I assume must be the baby in the photograph if it was taken in 1886.  Their last child Ernst August of Hanover wasn't born until 1887.

Regards

Allan Raymond
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Prince_Christopher on July 30, 2005, 02:02:57 PM
If anyone has the book Xenia, Once a Grand Duchess, there are some lovely pictures in it of the Cumberland/Hanover children as teenagers.  Does anyone know how George William and Christian died?

Unfortunately, I do not have a scanner.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: grandduchessella on October 10, 2005, 09:18:58 PM
Marienburg Castle (named for Queen Marie) was a birthday gift from her husband, King George V.
It was intended to serve as a secluded residence where the royal couple could get away from the affairs of state. The castle is located about 20 kilometres to the south of Hannover. The castle was built between 1858 and 1867 and is of historical importance as one of the most significant neo-Gothic buildings in Germany.

It is also remarkably well-preserved. The rich and elaborate interior, with its colourfully painted ceilings, its costly wooden panelling and its sumptuous furniture, provides a unique testimony to the art of interior design at the time of its creation. The furnishings, which have been preserved in their authentic original form, display a remarkable quality of execution. Particularly notable is the round library with its colourful vaulting, its lancet windows and its bookshelves of exquisitely carved oak with metal fittings. One can also see cushions embroidered by Marie and some of George's weapons collection.

The castle grounds were originally planned as a wild garden in the English landscape style. Romantic winding paths lead all around Marienburg Castle, so that it can be viewed from every side.

The building work was never fully completed. In 1866 the Kingdom of Hannover was occupied by the Prussian army, and King George V went into exile in Austria. The castle was left uninhabited; but today it has been well restored, is open to the public as a museum and is also available for events.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: grandduchessella on October 10, 2005, 09:31:31 PM
Marie of Saxe-Altenberg (1818-1907)

Husband: George V, King of Hannover lost his throne as a result of annexation by Prussia 20 Sep 1866 (1819-

married: Hannover Feb 1843 14 Apr 1818-Gmunden 9 Jan 1907)  
 
children:

Ernst August, Duke of Cumberland; married Princess Thyra of Denmark

Frederika (1848-1926); m.Windsor Castle 1880 Alfons Count von Pawel-Ramingen (Frederika had been mentioned as a possible bride for QV's son Leopld, who did fall for her. She was in love with her future husband though but he wasn't an eligible husband. With Leopold's help she asked for QV for help and QV helped them to marry at Windsor Castle. They lived in England the remainder of their lives and were very close to Fredrika's cousins. She helped facillitate the marriage between Ena Battenberg & Alfonso XIII of Spain)

Mary (1849-1904). Mary was thought of as a potential bride as well--I think for either Alfred or Arthur--but she never married.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: kmerov on October 11, 2005, 05:10:42 PM
No portrait, but the second picture is a small colour one..
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/German%20Royalty/mariehann.jpg )
(http:// http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/German%20Royalty/MarieExilhannover.jpg)
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: thijs on October 16, 2005, 10:40:20 AM
Hey Marc
Here some pics I found
I have some more but no time to place them at this moment: will do that later. Have fun! By the way, do you have paintings, photographs of the Schwarzburg family?

Friederike when queen of Hannover, wife of Ernst August l

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b164/bernogreat/QUEENFRIEDERIKEWIFEOFERNESTAUGUSTIK.jpg)

Friederike as princess of Mecklenburg Strelitz

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b164/bernogreat/FRIEDERIKEPRINCESSOFMECKLENBURG-STR.jpg)


Friederike as princess of Prussia

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b164/bernogreat/FRIEDERIKEPRINCESSOFPRUSSIA1778-184.jpg)



Auguste of Schwarzburg Rudolstadt, daughter of Queen Friederike from her first marriage with the prince of solms braunfels

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b164/bernogreat/AUGUSTEPRINCESSOFSCHWARZBURG-RUDOLS.jpg)
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: thijs on November 22, 2005, 08:19:16 AM
Quote
Well,she was!That's why I am interested in children from her two previous marriages...


Hey Marc: here she is again: Queen Friederike with some of her children of her three marriages. It would be great if we could succeed in posting pictures of all of her children?

Her fisrt marriage was with  Friedrich Ludwig Karl of Prussia 1773-1796 and they had 3 children:

1) Friedrich Wilhelm Ludwig 1794-1863, he married Luise Pss of Anhalt-Bernburg 1799-1882

This couple had two sons but I do not know if they had children:

Friedrich Wilhelm Ludwig Alexander 1820-1896

Friedrich Wilhelm Georg Ernst 1826-1902

2) Friederike Luise Wilhelmine Amalie 1796-1850, she married 1818 Leopold IV Duke of Anhalt Dessau 1794-1881

3) Friedrich Wilhelm Karl Georg 1795-1798


Her second marriage was with Friedrich Wilhelm of Solms Braunfels 1770-1814 and the (6) childen from this marriage:
 
1) Sophie 1799-1799

2) Friedrich Wilhelm1800-1800

3) Friedrich Wilhelm Heinrich Casimir Georg Carl Maximilian 1801-1868 married 1831 to Maria Kinsky von Wchinitz 1809-1892
   
4) Auguste Luise Therese Mathilde 1804-1865, she married 1827 Albert von Schwarzburg-Rudolstadt 1798-1869

5) Alexander Friedrich Ludwig 1807-1867, he married 1863 Luise von Landsberg-Velen 1835-1894

6) Friedrich Wilhelm Karl Ludwig Georg Alfred Alexander 1812-1875), he married  1843 Sophie von Löwenstein-Wertheim 1814-1876

 
And the third marriage was of course to King ERNST AUGUST I of Hannover 1771-1851 and they had one child:  

GEORG V Friedrich Alexander Karl Ernst August King of Hannover married 1843 Marie Pss of Saxe-Altenburg 1818-1907
 
 
 
Queen Friederike of Hannover


(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b164/bernogreat/PROBABLYFRIEDERIKEQUEENOFHANOVER.jpg)


Her daughter in law Luise princess of Prussia
Princess of Anhalt Bernburg 1799-1882 married to her son Friedrich of Prussia

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b164/bernogreat/PORTRAITOFLUISEPRINCESSOFPRUSSIAPRI.jpg)

Her son Friedrich prince of Prussia 1794-1863
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b164/bernogreat/FRIEDRICHPRINCEOFPRUSSIA1794-1863.jpg)

Two of her sons together FRIEDRICH LUDWIG PRINCE OF PRUSSIA 1794-1863
AND HIS HALF-BROTHER WILHELM PRINCE ZU SOLMS-BRAUNFELS 1801-1868 (painted in 1830)

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b164/bernogreat/FRIEDRICHLUDWIGPRINCEOFPRUSSIA1794-.jpg)


Her son Friedrich Wilhelm of Solms-Braunfels 1801-1867

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b164/bernogreat/WILLIAMPRINCEZUSOLMS-BRAUNFELSB.jpg)


Her son in law Albert, Furst of Schwarzburg Rudolstadt

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b164/bernogreat/ALBERTPRINCEOFSCHWARZBURG-RUDOLSTAD.jpg)

Her daughter AUGUSTE of Solms Braunfels married to Albert of SCHWARZBURG-RUDOLSTADT

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b164/bernogreat/AUGUSTEPRINCESSOFSCHWARZBURG-RUDOLS.jpg)

Her third husband ERNEST AUGUST I, KING OF HANOVER (1771-1851)

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b164/bernogreat/ERNESTAUGUSTIKINGOFHANOVER1771-1851.jpg)

And their son Georg V of Hannover

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b164/bernogreat/GEORGVKINGOFHANOVER1819-1878.jpg)
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: thijs on November 23, 2005, 10:50:13 AM
Quote
Wow,thanks!No words...  :) :) :)


I am pretty sure that this is one of the rare paintings of Queen Marie (Sachsen Altenburg) daughter in law of Queen Friederike of Hannover, married to Georg V of Hannover

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b164/bernogreat/PRINCESSMARIE1849-1904ANDPRINCESSFR.jpg)
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: thijs on November 23, 2005, 11:16:49 AM
Quote
I would like to see the parents first...Frederica's mother was a Hesse-Darmstadt.


This must be princess Marie of Hannover 1849-1904
Granddaughter of Queen Friederike and daugther of Queen Marie (Sachsen Altenburg) and Georg V of Hannover
Please confirmation because I am not 100 % for sure??

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b164/bernogreat/POSSIBLYPRINCESSFRIEDERIKE1848-1926.jpg)
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: thijs on November 23, 2005, 11:20:28 AM
Quote
I would like to see the parents first...Frederica's mother was a Hesse-Darmstadt.



This is princess Friederike of Hannover 1848-1926
Granddaughter of Queen Friederike and daugther of Queen Marie (Sachsen Altenburg) and Georg V of Hannover

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b164/bernogreat/FRIEDERIKEPRINCESSOFHANOVERDAUGHTER.jpg)
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 01, 2006, 10:02:31 AM
Hi.

I just read about from another thread that Princess Frederica died in England and left jewels to the Duke of Gloucester. Is that true ?

Also I thought Ferderica lived in Southern France, and her place was used by Ena taking lesssons to become Catholic. Right ?

Don't know too much about her later life. Anyone help ?  ???
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: lancashireladandre on January 01, 2006, 01:48:56 PM
Quote
Hi.

I just read about from another thread that Princess Frederica died in England and left jewels to the Duke of Gloucester. Is that true ?

Also I thought Ferderica lived in Southern France, and her place was used by Ena taking lesssons to become Catholic. Right ?

Don't know too much about her later life. Anyone help ?  ???

From memory without checking ....Frederica lived at least part of her married life in a " grace and favour" residence in England from her marriage she had only one daughter who died either at birth or very young. She died in 1926,her husband in 1932
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: grandduchessella on January 01, 2006, 01:50:14 PM
I don't know about the first part. The 2nd part is true though. Frederica's house was used as a sanctuary for Ena and Alfonso to meet somewhat privately though the news media (which was avidly following the romance--even in the US) still found out. There was a nice picture from when the engagement was announced that showed Frederica with the happy couple, Beatrice and, I believe, Marie Christina.

Frederica was very close to her English relatives and QV helped facilitate (after urging from Leopold, who'd once hoped to perhaps marry Frederica) her romance and marriage to Baron Pawel-Rammingen (sp). Both of them are buried at either Frogmore or St George's--I'll have to check for the specifics.

I've never heard of a great attachment to the Duke of Gloucester (GV's son Henry) though.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Michael_II on January 01, 2006, 03:05:41 PM
I believe in JPH's bio of Queen Mary speaking of the Duke of Gloucester's marriage Queen Mary said that Frederica "cousin Lilly" had left  "some nice diamond things."  Also only Fredrica and her daughter Victoria are buried in the royal vault at St. George's Chapel, Windsor along with Frederica's father George V on Hanover.  The Baron lies buried in a cemetery in Biarritz.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: grandduchessella on January 01, 2006, 03:07:00 PM
Quote
I believe in JPH's bio of Queen Mary speaking of the Duke of Gloucester's marriage Queen Mary said that Frederica "cousin Lilly" had left  "some nice diamond things."  Also only Fredrica and her daughter Victoria are buried in the royal vault at St. George's Chapel, Windsor along with Frederica's father George V on Hanover.  The Baron lies buried in a cemetery in Biarritz.


Many thanks--I had meant to go back and check but I was busy splitting my time between watching/listening to football (US) and looking through photos.

Do you know why she and her husband are buried separately?
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Michael_II on January 01, 2006, 03:13:26 PM
I am sorry I can't answer the why.  :P  
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Michael_II on January 01, 2006, 06:16:46 PM
Here's some further information on Princess Frederica of Hanover, Baroness von Pawel-Rammingen:

Born:  9 January 1848.
Parents:  George V of Hanover and Princess Marie of
               Saxe-Altenburg.
Died:  16 October 1926, Biarritz, France.
Buried:  18 November 1926, Royal vault, St. George's
             Chapel, Windsor.    
Married:  24 April 1880, St. George's Chapel, Windsor,
              Luitbert, Baron von Pawel-Rammingen.
Born:  27 July 1843.
Died:  20 November 1932, Biarritz, France.
Buried:   Cimetiere du Sabaou, Biarritz.
Issue:
1.  Victoria von Pawel-Rammingen
    Born:  7 March 1881.
    Died:  27 March 1881.
    Buried:  31 March 1881, Royal vault, St. George's
                 Chapel, Windsor.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Michael_II on January 01, 2006, 06:26:14 PM
Quote

Many thanks--I had meant to go back and check but I was busy splitting my time between watching/listening to football (US) and looking through photos.

Do you know why she and her husband are buried separately?

One reason that he was not buried with Princess Frederica maybe simply that he was a Baron the equerry of George V.  And given the fact that Queen Mary was on the throne she had definate views on such matters.
When in 1930 she had the remains of the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge moved to the royal vault St. George's Chapel from Kew the remains of their chamberlain also a Baron remained in the mausoleum at Kew.  If you look at the list of those buried in the royal
vault there are no Barons there.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Leuchtenberg on January 01, 2006, 07:59:54 PM
Princess Frederica was given the CI, the RRC, and made a Dame of Justice of the Order of St. John.  Oddly enough, she never received the Order of Victoria and Albert.

In the UK, Queen Victoria accepted the Princess' husband as a member of the Royal Family, but in terms of precedence at Court, the Baron was at the very bottom.  In this he fared far better than in the courts of Germany where for the most part he was snubbed as a husband of a Royal princess.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: grandduchessella on January 01, 2006, 08:12:30 PM
Quote
One reason that he was not buried with Princess Frederica maybe simply that he was a Baron the equerry of George V.  And given the fact that Queen Mary was on the throne she had definate views on such matters.
When in 1930 she had the remains of the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge moved to the royal vault St. George's Chapel from Kew the remains of their chamberlain also a Baron remained in the mausoleum at Kew.  If you look at the list of those buried in the royal
vault there are no Barons there.


Baron P-R was a relative though whereas the Cambridge's chamberlain wasn't. I could see why he would remain at Kew rather than going to the Royal Vault.

Could it be that it was because he died at Biarritz on 20 Nov 1932? Helen, Duchess of Albany, was buried overseas where she died rather than next to Leopold. She didn't want her body to be shipped back. Maybe it was preference rather than precedence.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: grandduchessella on January 01, 2006, 08:14:05 PM
Okay, I don't know why this is such a big deal but it was in one of those lots--there were 3 that had Frederica in them.

I'll get the catalog down and scan the page so you can see I didn't use your win.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: grandduchessella on January 01, 2006, 08:45:57 PM
Quote

Your work never ends, does it?  ;D  ;)


Doesn't seem like it, does it? But it keeps my mind off Bob leaving.  :(

Anyway, to happier topics.

From Noel: "Ena and her mother were to be the guests of Princess Frederica of Hanover who had represented the Empress Eugenie at Ena's christening. The press was quickly on to the scent and reporters immediately began infiltrating the area from several countries"

Also Noel: describing the wedding day he mentions that Frederica rode with Alice and Alexander Teck (later Athlone) in the first carriage to leave the church and quotes Alice remarking to Frederica how dangerous all the bouquets bouncing off the carriages seemed.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 01, 2006, 08:53:49 PM
Thank you all for the information on "Cousin Lily",

I got the catalogue too, but didn't see a lot of mouth-watering pictures in the catalog. I did see one of Ferderica and her sister Mary there. Not too much info on the relationship between Frederica and her parents after she eloped. Did they reconcile later ? Did she go back to Austria to visit her parents and siblings ?
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: grandduchessella on January 01, 2006, 08:59:38 PM
From Zeepvatt's bio on Leopold: describing F at 25 'a tall woman, stately rather than beautiful, and quite shy'

'In October the Queen allowed him to visit...Gmunden, officially to see the widowed Queen on her behalf, but really to assess his chances [for marriage to F]. Unfortunately, this only deepened his feelings for another woman who was out of reach. Frederica was in love with her father's secretary, Baron Alfons von Pawel-Rammingen. The old King would not hear of marriage, nor would his son, and she would marry no one else. Leopold did not propose because he sensed that it was hopeless..'

'After his failure to propose...[he] felt very dispirited. In January 1879, she arrived in London, and he was sent to meet her. He found it hard to shake off the longing that thigns could be different between them, and as the weeks passed, that longing grew. In February..he told his mother that he wanted to marry and she was sympathetic, though she advised caution. Frederica was not mentioned...The dream of Frederica was doomed to failure. Leopold still hankered after her when he returned...in april, and Alick Yorke appealed to friends to speak to her on his behalf, but soon Frederica took the matter in hand and confessed her feelings for Baron von Pawel-Rammingen. To his credit, Leopold's attitude changed as soon as the truth came out...he set his feeings aside and did his utmost to help her. As a member of the House of Hanover, frederica was also a Princess of Great Britain and Ireland, and the Queen could give permission for her marriage. This she did, undertaking to pay for the ceremony and provide the couple with a home. 'Leopold has been her great help throughout', she told the Crown Princess [Vicky].'

As a mark of his friendship, when he married Helen, knowing his time could always be cut short, he had included a bequests of GBP 1000 for Frederica who 'had no resources of her own and remained one of his dearest friends'.

Frederica in turn became close to Helen as well, frequently visiting her and Leo. This friendship continued, perhaps even strengthened, after Leo's death.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: grandduchessella on January 01, 2006, 09:00:40 PM
Quote
Thank you all for the information on "Cousin Lily",

I got the catalogue too, but didn't see a lot of mouth-watering pictures in the catalog. I did see one of Ferderica and her sister Mary there. Not too much info on the relationship between Frederica and her parents after she eloped. Did they reconcile later ? Did she go back to Austria to visit her parents and siblings ?


Well, the photo from the catalog--taken in 1902--was taken in Gmunden for what that's worth.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 01, 2006, 09:16:29 PM
Yes...I guess they sort of reconciled.  ;) Although I knew that Frederica was not there when her mother Queen Marie passed away. I have a letter written by Lily telling a friend how she recieved news of her mother's death.   ::)
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Svetabel on January 02, 2006, 05:53:36 AM
One more of Frederica.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/PrincessFriederike.jpg)
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 02, 2006, 07:24:33 AM
Like to know more about her later life, wonder who will have her papers... ???
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Michael_II on January 02, 2006, 09:41:10 AM
Quote

Baron P-R was a relative though whereas the Cambridge's chamberlain wasn't. I could see why he would remain at Kew rather than going to the Royal Vault.

Could it be that it was because he died at Biarritz on 20 Nov 1932? Helen, Duchess of Albany, was buried overseas where she died rather than next to Leopold. She didn't want her body to be shipped back. Maybe it was preference rather than precedence.

Yes Grandduchessella I fully agree with you on the preference part.    I found out that the Baron lies buried
in the Cimetiere du Sabaou, Biarritz.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Lucien on January 13, 2006, 03:08:17 AM
A sad occasion for the House of Hanover.HRH Prince Georg Wilhelm passed away last sunday
in Munich,aged 90.He was the second son of  Duke Ernst August of Braunschweig and Viktoria Luise,only daughter of the Kaiser.

HRH Prince Georg Wilhelm,Duke of Braunschweig and Lüneburg,Prince of Great Britain and Northern Ireland was married to Princess Sophie,Princess of Greece and Denmark(died 2001),and had 3 children,Welf(1947-1981),Georg 1949- ,Friederike 1954-

He was the uncle to HM Queen Sophie and HM King Constantine as well as EA.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: HerrKaiser on January 13, 2006, 09:01:08 AM
Another era ended. Was he the one who fought with VL about the family's estate and inheritances? Does anyone have photos of him with his mother during the post WWII years? Thanks!
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Daniela on September 19, 2006, 08:15:08 AM
Marie of Saxe-Altenberg (1818-1907)

Husband: George V, King of Hannover lost his throne as a result of annexation by Prussia 20 Sep 1866 (1819-

married: Hannover Feb 1843 14 Apr 1818-Gmunden 9 Jan 1907)  
  
children:

Ernst August, Duke of Cumberland; married Princess Thyra of Denmark

Frederika (1848-1926); m.Windsor Castle 1880 Alfons Count von Pawel-Ramingen (Frederika had been mentioned as a possible bride for QV's son Leopld, who did fall for her. She was in love with her future husband though but he wasn't an eligible husband. With Leopold's help she asked for QV for help and QV helped them to marry at Windsor Castle. They lived in England the remainder of their lives and were very close to Fredrika's cousins. She helped facillitate the marriage between Ena Battenberg & Alfonso XIII of Spain)

Mary (1849-1904). Mary was thought of as a potential bride as well--I think for either Alfred or Arthur--but she never married.

(http://www.royaltyguide.nl/images-families/welfen/hannover3/1848%20Friederike-01.JPG)
Princess Frederika

Hello!

A would like to know more about Princess Frederika. I think she was beautiful, but I've saw just one photo I've posted above. If it's possible can you tell something about her husband Freiherr Alfons von Pawel-Ramingen. What was his family background? And how sorry I've felt for her, her only daughter ( they gave her this names Victoria Georgine Beatrice Maude Anne) died just 20 days after she was born. How teribble! :'(

I know a lot of questions, but she is interesting! :D

Daniela
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: grandduchessella on September 19, 2006, 09:35:05 AM

As for Frederica--

Her nickname was 'Lily'. She was very close to QV's younger children and Leopold even thought about proposing to her. She remained close to his widow and children later on. It was to Leopold that Lily confided her love for the Baron and he took the case to QV. Lily left for England and married, against her father's wishes, the Baron there--in Windsor perhaps? When Ena, Beatrice's daughter, was being wooed by Alfonso XIII of Spain, it was at Frederica's house in Biarritz that the 2 were allowed to meet in semi-privacy--the press was following the romance closely--and it was there they became engaged. Frederica and her husband are seen in some of the engagement photos taken that day. She rode in the procession at Ena's wedding.


Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Lucien on November 26, 2006, 04:09:38 AM
The Kingdom of Hanover:

http://www.koenigreich-hannover.de/ukindex2.html
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Teddy on November 26, 2006, 09:36:47 AM
Are there books about the Royal House of Hannover?
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: HerrKaiser on December 05, 2006, 06:45:39 PM
yes, what would be the good books on the House of Hannover?


also, why were the Hannoverian kings relocated to London? why did they not administer the two kingdoms from Hannover? sheer size of nation?

thanks!
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Daniela on December 12, 2006, 04:22:05 AM
yes, what would be the good books on the House of Hannover?


also, why were the Hannoverian kings relocated to London? why did they not administer the two kingdoms from Hannover? sheer size of nation?

thanks!

Well, probably because at the time the big European nations quarreled about who would be the right successor to the British throne and George I and his advisors, felt it would be better if he would be crowned in Great Britain and also lived there.

Daniela
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Marlene on December 12, 2006, 10:07:43 AM
In 1701, the British parliament promulgated a new succession law , called the Act of Settlement, which devolved the succession on the Protestant descendants of the Electress Sophia of Hannover.  This was done because William and Mary had no children, and none of Queen's children survived childhood or infancy.  The next in line to the throne (who was not Catholic) was the Sophia, the 13th and youngest child of Princess Elizabeth of England and Scotland, who married the Elector Palatine of the Rhine.  Elizabeth was the daughter of James I of England (and VI of Scotland).  Elizabeth's brother, Charles I succeeded James I.   Charles I was succeeded by his eldest son, Charles II, who had no legitimate issue.  Charles II was suceeded by James II, who had two daughters, Mary and Anne, by his first wife.  He converted to Roman Catholicism, and his second marriage was to a Catholic, Mary of Modena.  It was in 1688, after Mary gave birth to a son, who was baptised Catholic, that Parliament took action.  (There were other factors that led to what is known as the Glorious Revolution, as well).  James II and his family fled, and Parliament invited James' elder daughter, Mary and her husband (and first cousin) William of Orange) to be joint rulers.  Mary died only a few years later. 
Thus, in 1701, Sophia became the heiress presumptive to the British throne (as of 1707 with the Act of Union).  She died in 1714 only a few months before the death of Anne.  Thus, when Anne died, the throne passed to Georg Ludwig, Elector of Hannover.  (Hannover did not become a kingdom until 1814).

He preferred Hannover, but George I also realized that Britain was a more important kingdom ...the family retained ties to Hannover, but there was a lot more prestige and power as king of the UK of GB and Ireland. 

There was no need for European nations to quarrel over who would succeed to the British throne.  In 1701, Georg Ludwig was well aware of the fact that he would one day succeed to the throne.  It was a done deal - and England was one of the most powerful, if not the most powerful nation in Europe, having won numerous battles, thanks to the brilliant leadership of the Duke of Marlborough.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: TampaBay on December 19, 2006, 04:38:32 AM

The next in line to the throne (who was not Catholic) was the Sophia, the 13th and youngest child of Princess Elizabeth of England and Scotland, who married the Elector Palatine of the Rhine. 

So, Sophia married the/an Elector of Hanover-father of George I???

TampaBay
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Prince_Lieven on December 19, 2006, 09:06:50 AM
Yes, Sophia was married to the Duke of Brunswick-Luneburg, Ernest Augustus (1629-1698) who was also Elector of Hanover. One of their daughters was Sophia Charlotte, who's son Frederick William I of Prussia married George I's daughter Sophia Dorothea and was father to Frederick the Great.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Marlene on December 19, 2006, 09:20:31 AM
Yes -


The next in line to the throne (who was not Catholic) was the Sophia, the 13th and youngest child of Princess Elizabeth of England and Scotland, who married the Elector Palatine of the Rhine. 

So, Sophia married the/an Elector of Hanover-father of George I???

TampaBay
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Martin on January 23, 2007, 03:25:41 PM



Every country has its own way of writing history. Yours is very English. Ernest August could also be seen as a clever politician- reactionary of corse- but he did not lose his kingdom in the 1848 revolution.He adapted when needed.

King Ernest Augustus I and Queen Frederica of Hanover, two of my favorite pre-Victorian royals.

Ernest (aka The Duke of Cumberland), inherited the throne of Hanover from his brother William IV, as due to the Salic law, Victoria could not inherit in Germany.

He was an autocrat, very reactionary, and almost lost his throne.  

He was seen as an evil person in his own time, people on the street avoided him.  He had an eye missing and was suspected in the murder of his valet.

He married his first cousin, Frederica of Mecklenburg-Strelitz and they began to try to produce an heir, even before the death of Princess Charlotte.  He was one step ahead of the Great Marriage Race between his brothers.

His marriage was not approved of by anyone in England, including Queen Charlotte, who was the aunt of Frederica, and for good reason.

Frederica was suspected in the murder of not one but two previous husbands!  They were 1.)Prince Louis of Prussia, who, although they divorced in 1796, died mysteriously soon after, in the same year.  2.)Prince Frederick of Solms-Braunfels, who also died mysteriously and conveniently just in time for Frederica to marry Ernst and produce an heir.  She had 8 or 9 children by the first two hubands.

She was notorious in Germany and England, always involved in various intrigues and affairs.

She and Ernest continually schemed and plotted for the throne of Great Britain, their ultimate prize.

However, they had to settle for Hanover, and she spent the last 4 years of her life as a queen.

King Ernst spent much time in England, bothering his neice Queen Victoria as much as possible and even suing her for Princess Charlotte's jewels, which he believed belonged to the Crown of Hanover.

Ernst and Frederica had one surviving child, George, or "Blind George", who succeeded his father in 1851 as King George V of Hanover.  

George V married Marie of Saxe-Altenberg and had: Ernst August II (married Thyra), Frederica (Baroness Pawel-Rammingen), and  Mary, who died young.

Blind George was deposed in 1866.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: carl fraley on May 31, 2008, 03:14:35 AM
I came across an old article on google by accident from 2006 where the 2 sons of Prince Ernest August V were selling off the Geulph art and silver etc.... to establish a fund to keep Castle Marienburg running.   My question is..... How did the 2 boys who are in their 20's come into ownership of the castle??  Also, who currently owns the properties in Gmunden that sustained the family since 1866?

The fortune (or what was left of it) that King George V , had to get Queen Victoria to help he retrieve, what's left of it?  i mean is the family still "comfortable"?  What properties does the family still own?

Under German Law, would the children of Queen Frederika be entitled to any portion of the families wealth? 
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: grandduchessella on May 31, 2008, 08:22:08 PM
I believe Ernst August is very well-off but no doubt it costs a lot to maintain historical properties. I got the catalog of the auction and there was a good deal sold but I don't believe there was any significant jewelry in it. I think Caroline has been seen in one of Victoria Louise's tiaras. There was a good deal of china and artwork as well as some historical photographs.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 19, 2008, 11:26:17 AM
I think they also owned the country home in Gmunden.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 17, 2008, 03:13:00 PM
No I want to know more about cousin Lily...I actually had a fewof her letters. It would be nice to find out where I can get more info on her.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: amelia on October 17, 2008, 05:13:46 PM
Is this the same Princess Frederica, niece of Grand Duchess Alexandra Yosovna, wife of GD Konstatin Nicholovich? Didn't Gd Alexandra Y want her eldest son GD Nicholas Konstatinovich to marry her?I understand that she was in love with her father's secretary. Did she marry him? Thanks Amelia
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Svetabel on October 18, 2008, 01:39:27 AM
Is this the same Princess Frederica, niece of Grand Duchess Alexandra Yosovna, wife of GD Konstatin Nicholovich? Didn't Gd Alexandra Y want her eldest son GD Nicholas Konstatinovich to marry her?I understand that she was in love with her father's secretary. Did she marry him? Thanks Amelia

Yes, the same Frederica whom GDss Alexandra I. wanted to marry her eldest son. Frederica did marry the secretary with the help and support of Queen Victoria.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 18, 2008, 06:04:11 PM
Yes...she reputedly also turned down one of Queen Victoria's sons as well...
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Norbert on October 19, 2008, 01:44:49 PM
in 1863 she was put forward as a future bride for Prince Alfred but Queen Victoria regarded the match as too close and Hanoverian  and  put a veto to the idea. Alfons was 6th baron and became a British subject in 1880. She constantly battled for larger quarters at Hampton Court Palace and converted the stables. After the death of her daughter she devoted herself to charity and opened a home for women in East Moseley . Alfons  was unpopular at the British Court... anyone know why?. Meanwhile she adopted his nephew Baron Manfred ( b. 1880-?)  who in turn adopted in 1950,  60 year old George Earle, Gov of Pennsylvainia...very odd.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 19, 2008, 04:37:42 PM
Interesting ! However did anyone know why they moved to France ?  ???
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Norbert on October 21, 2008, 10:43:58 AM
They maintained their apartments at Hampton Court Palace.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 21, 2008, 01:40:12 PM
But the reason for leaving...for health reasons ?
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: eejm on October 25, 2008, 10:16:29 PM
in 1863 she was put forward as a future bride for Prince Alfred but Queen Victoria regarded the match as too close and Hanoverian  and  put a veto to the idea. Alfons was 6th baron and became a British subject in 1880. She constantly battled for larger quarters at Hampton Court Palace and converted the stables. After the death of her daughter she devoted herself to charity and opened a home for women in East Moseley . Alfons  was unpopular at the British Court... anyone know why?. Meanwhile she adopted his nephew Baron Manfred ( b. 1880-?)  who in turn adopted in 1950,  60 year old George Earle, Gov of Pennsylvainia...very odd.

Prince Leopold, Queen Victoria's fourth son, also pursued Frederica.  Leopold wanted to propose to Frederica, as they were quite close, but upon hearing she was in love with her father's equerry, he decided against proposing and instead helped her obtain approval to marry her love.  It was Queen Victoria who gave the approval for Frederica to marry her equerry (I forget his name), for as a male-line descendent of George III, Frederica was also a British princess.  Leopold and Frederica stayed good friends until his death in 1884.  Frederica was also close to Leopold's wife, Helen.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 26, 2008, 02:19:46 PM
Seems like "Cousin Lily" was quite a heart-breaker ! I heard she was also close to the Hapsburgs since she spent time in Vienna and Gmunden.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Norbert on October 26, 2008, 03:07:21 PM
however her parents must have been furious at such a low marriage and with Queen Victoria for supporting it.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 27, 2008, 10:20:26 AM
I think in time they got to accept it. At least her mother since they were photographed years later with sister Mary in Gmunden.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Norbert on October 27, 2008, 01:58:51 PM
Not much they could do as Bismarck squirreled away the Hanoverian fortune  and left them with no funds . With Victoria's daughter as the next Prussian Queen ..no friends in London and then their daughter legs it with a servant , gawd!
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 27, 2008, 03:15:42 PM
Yes...although part of the belongings were returned to them. Emperor Franz Josef was kind to the Hanoverian Royal Family. A part of the fortune were returned to them, which Ernst August bought the villa at Gmunden. Queen Marie lived at the Dower house there with Mary, while he lived with Thyra & family in the big house. The Austrian Emperor also given Ernst August and his family the use of a palace (now known as Cumberland Palais) in Vienna. It was only after VL married their son, that the entire fortune was returned to the Hanoverian Royal Family.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Norbert on October 30, 2008, 07:42:44 AM
also Marienburg Castle was saved as it was the Queens personal property and still owned by them today...real fairyland chateaux
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 30, 2008, 04:30:52 PM
Did Queen Marie Live long enough to see Marienburg Castle return to the family ? I don't think so...nor did Thyra lived there.

They also owned the Dower House in Gmunden (while the big house became a hospital).
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Norbert on October 31, 2008, 11:16:51 AM
any pics of the large and dower house?
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: ashdean on October 31, 2008, 12:15:07 PM
Not much they could do as Bismarck squirreled away the Hanoverian fortune  and left them with no funds . With Victoria's daughter as the next Prussian Queen ..no friends in London and then their daughter legs it with a servant , gawd!
Queen Victoria was active in helping recover the Hanoverian fortune...also during the decade or more it took for restitution to be made they were not totally without funds...much had be salvaged including the crown jewels and the Queens personal gems.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 31, 2008, 02:14:02 PM
There are many photos of the large house in Gmunden, especially in the wedding postcards issued during the time of VL'smarriage to Ernst August in Berlin. The dower house I never seen the building from the outside. However there are much interior shots of Dowager Queen Marie in her living room, outside the terrance with her daughters Mary & Freddy.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Norbert on November 01, 2008, 07:47:49 AM
can anyone post them please?
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Lucien on June 16, 2009, 10:31:05 AM
Prince Ernst August found himself at court ,again...

http://www.ppe-agency.com/show.php?zoektype=2&search=15-06-2009%20Court

courtesy ppe
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Tsaritsa on June 16, 2009, 11:44:34 AM
Very interesting.  I hadn't heard about this. 

Is it just me or has Ernst August lost some weight?
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: HerrKaiser on June 16, 2009, 02:42:53 PM
Well, he didn't find himself in court, he actually found his way to court. This was his doing.

He is trying to get the 2004 sentence reduced; can't blame him at all...he owes a ton of money to the victim.

He may succeed. The facts of the case appear as if the victim's "injuries" were quite exaggerated, claiming to need hospitalization from two punches to the chest and stomach with a ring doing substantial damage. Huh? A ring causing damage, through clothes, requiring hospital treatment? Sounds like a typical legal money-grab to me.

In any event, Grandmother VL would be disappointed.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Lucien on June 17, 2009, 02:53:40 PM
Well, he didn't find himself in court, he actually found his way to court. This was his doing.

He is trying to get the 2004 sentence reduced; can't blame him at all...he owes a ton of money to the victim.

He may succeed. The facts of the case appear as if the victim's "injuries" were quite exaggerated, claiming to need hospitalization from two punches to the chest and stomach with a ring doing substantial damage. Huh? A ring causing damage, through clothes, requiring hospital treatment? Sounds like a typical legal money-grab to me.

In any event, Grandmother VL would be disappointed.

Found himself,found his way,never mind in this case of the  most degenerate of european Royals.He'll continue to find his way,found his way or ordered that way into another courtcase soon enough.He subscribed to them in a way, long agp.

Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Grace on July 24, 2009, 05:52:15 AM
Would my general impression that Ernst August is a violent alcoholic be exaggerated or not, I wonder?
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Marlene on July 24, 2009, 07:34:52 AM
Ernst August married a very rich woman, Chantal Hochuli - and the marriage was approved by his father.  Over the years, he cheated on his wife, but the final straw was his rather open relationship with Caroline (who was one of Chantal's friends.)   
Any pictures of the current Ernst of Hanover and his wife (and Children) Caroline of Monoco.  Anybody have and info on why his first marriage failed.  Was not his first wife a commoner?

Who is the current heir and how old is he?  Pictures?   The heir is EA's elder son, Prince Ernst August, who was born in 1983.  He has a brother, Prince Christian, born in 1985.  They were born in Germany, but educated largely in the UK.

TampaBay
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: tecklenburg on September 02, 2009, 06:11:56 AM
In which army did Princes Christian and Welf Heinrich serve during 2WW ?
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Marlene on September 02, 2009, 01:14:49 PM

German

In which army did Princes Christian and Welf Heinrich serve during 2WW ?
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Paul on January 23, 2010, 03:49:08 PM
Would my general impression that Ernst August is a violent alcoholic be exaggerated or not, I wonder?

Hasn't Princess Stephanie made some rather pointed public comments about her brother-in-law's drinking habits?
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Naslednik Norvezhskiy on January 23, 2010, 06:51:22 PM
in 1863 she was put forward as a future bride for Prince Alfred but Queen Victoria regarded the match as too close and Hanoverian  and  put a veto to the idea. Alfons was 6th baron and became a British subject in 1880. She constantly battled for larger quarters at Hampton Court Palace and converted the stables. After the death of her daughter she devoted herself to charity and opened a home for women in East Moseley . Alfons  was unpopular at the British Court... anyone know why?. Meanwhile she adopted his nephew Baron Manfred ( b. 1880-?)  who in turn adopted in 1950,  60 year old George Earle, Gov of Pennsylvainia...very odd.
Really strange! Somebody must surely know more about this, why it was done? I would think a former Governor of Pennsylvania had so much social standing that he didn't need to make himself ridiculous with a fake baronial title. And a former US ambassador to Austria to boot, perhaps that's where he got noble aspirations?

I found these pictures of the crowns of the Kings and Queens of Hanover in Lord Twining's book "A History of the Crown Jewels of Europe" (1960). Allegedly they were made for the occassion of Crown Prince George (V)'s marriage to Marie of Saxe-Altenburg in 1843. Does anybody know any more about them, where they are nowadays, among other things?

(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c303/FredrikBergow/Kroner/Hannoverskongekrone.jpg)...(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c303/FredrikBergow/Kroner/Hannoversdronningkrone.jpg)

Some modern miniature models. Don't know how accurate they are:
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c303/FredrikBergow/Hannover2.jpg)...(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c303/FredrikBergow/Hannover1.jpg)
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 23, 2010, 08:13:01 PM
Most likely still in the Hanoverian family if the pieces survive WW II.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Naslednik Norvezhskiy on March 20, 2010, 04:16:22 PM
Marienburg Castle (named for Queen Marie) was a birthday gift from her husband, King George V.
It was intended to serve as a secluded residence where the royal couple could get away from the affairs of state. The castle is located about 20 kilometres to the south of Hannover.

While most of the Kingdom of Hanover is part of the North German Plain and at its best only can be said to have a depressing melancholic charm akin to the Russian steppe, Marienburg is located in a very picturesque region: Exactly where the rolling hills of the Weserbergland rise up from the monotonous plain, continuing southwards towards Göttingen and the absolutely idyllic town of Hannoversch Münden by the Hessian border. In other words: Exactly where Germany becomes the romantic fairytale land of the Brothers Grimm. (Who BTW were dismissed as Göttingen university professors and expelled from Hanover by King Ernst August I upon his accession in 1837, because of their opposition (with the rest of the Göttinger Seven) to his disregard of the constitution granted by his brother William IV.

Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: kmerov on March 21, 2010, 08:00:32 PM
Ernst August with his three daughters at Bernstorff Palace.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/Thyra/ErnstCumbDaughters.jpg)
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Naslednik Norvezhskiy on March 21, 2010, 08:11:27 PM
Danish writer Georg Brandes, who lived in Berlin in 1877-1882 and holidayed in a village somewhere in Hanover, writes that many Hanoverians were content about the Prussian annexation, because George V had been such an erratic ruler: Ernst August I and George insisted on George not being blind (allegedly to avoid a regency, as demanded by the constitution) and his blindness became a public secret that nobody was allowed to acknowledge. It became a public charade because George V insisted on commenting on people's appearances and the colours of their clothes etc. to disprove that he was blind. If people didn't act along with it, the King developed a grudge against them and sought revenge. Compared to those conditions, the Prussian yoke was harsh, but fair, as the Prussian politics never were personal.

Does anybody know if this is true? I am inclined to believe so, as Georg Brandes was an influential Professor of Philosophy who inspired Ibsen etc.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: kmerov on March 21, 2010, 08:44:37 PM
I think there is some truth to it, but King George V was more popular in Hannover during his exile then while he was king. And he had more support from his people than the Elector of Hesse and the Duke of Nassau.

Evil rumours had it that George was the cause of his son, Ernst August's flat face, as he accidently sad on him when he was a baby!
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 21, 2010, 09:11:43 PM
What a lie. Most likely spread by Bismark, who was the enemy of the Hannoverian Royal Family. He pocked their fortune as his private fund.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on July 12, 2010, 07:51:28 AM
Friedericke

(http://i25.tinypic.com/2h49pg1.jpg)

XL

http://i25.tinypic.com/2h49pg1.jpg
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 13, 2010, 09:58:12 PM
Love the picture of Ernst and his daughters. He looked a big aged.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: HerrKaiser on July 14, 2010, 11:50:27 AM
Love the picture of Ernst and his daughters. He looked a big aged.

The photo actually looks completely distorted. EA appears deformed, which he was not. He did age somewhat badly, but was not crippled nor did he suffer from serious physical ailments that would have created the stick-figure the photo implies.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 14, 2010, 12:00:54 PM
Yes. It makes him look like he had a crooked back.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: kmerov on July 16, 2010, 06:28:11 PM
I guess the picture of Ernst shows him from a bad perspective. Also his clothes look a bit shabby, which appearantly was something that his clothes sometimes did.

In this picture from the same day or I think it is, he looks more normal.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/Thyra/ErnstAugustNicholasGreece.jpg)
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on July 17, 2010, 07:46:57 AM
This was after or before the big argument he had with Thyra s relatives about how sick he was of being teased about his clothes and costumes?. I read his family spent a loooong time without oing to the reunions because of that.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 17, 2010, 12:19:08 PM
I think it was done by then, the children were older at this time. There were times Thyra just arrive with her daughters to see her parents.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: kmerov on July 20, 2010, 02:32:32 PM
Well, I think he just in generel preferred to stay at home, which got on his relatives nerves and they felt pity for Thyra who normally stayed at home with him.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: kmerov on July 20, 2010, 02:33:38 PM
Ernst August in Austrian uniform.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/Thyra/ErnstzuHannover.jpg)
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 20, 2010, 05:22:18 PM
I wonder when this was taken ?
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: kmerov on July 20, 2010, 06:02:12 PM
I'm not sure, and I was wondering myself. I got the picture from an old magazine, and now the year escapes me.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 20, 2010, 06:09:38 PM
Maybe around the time of Marie Louise's marriage ?
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: kmerov on July 20, 2010, 06:56:10 PM
Yes, my guess was around 1900, so it could be around Marie Louise's marriage.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: grandduchessella on July 20, 2010, 07:39:26 PM
It might also be part of the series of photograhs for their silver anniversary. There's one of hiim in the same outfit with Tyra (in a few poses).
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: HerrKaiser on July 22, 2010, 10:56:20 AM
are you all sure that is EA and not his father?
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on July 22, 2010, 11:09:26 AM
Yes , is Ernst august. Here a picture of his father

(http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/1279/georhoannver.jpg) (http://img411.imageshack.us/i/georhoannver.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 22, 2010, 11:28:25 AM
Yes. The poor blind king that was chased out of his kingdom by his cousin...
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: kmerov on July 22, 2010, 03:53:21 PM
are you all sure that is EA and not his father?
Yes, no question that it's Ernst August.

A small picture of his father, King George V of Hannover, who was "too blind to see the problems."
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/German%20Royalty/GeorgVExilhannover.jpg)
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 22, 2010, 05:32:39 PM
George was not born blind though...
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: HerrKaiser on July 23, 2010, 04:27:31 PM
I see what happened. I was sure the earlier photo with kids was referring to Ernst, VL's husband, not his father. Hence, the subsequent posts got generationally affected with reference to "EA" but meaning actually four generations of EA.

Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 23, 2010, 05:55:44 PM
Yes. You got that right. I wonder about the current EA's kids. Not much news about them...
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on August 09, 2010, 09:21:57 AM
Marie Hannover

(http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/5653/mjarhan3455.jpg) (http://img62.imageshack.us/i/mjarhan3455.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: kmerov on August 14, 2010, 05:49:15 PM
Thanls for the nice picture, Katenka.

The Hannover family shortly before WWI
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/Thyra/th_cumberlandgath.jpg) (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/Thyra/cumberlandgath.jpg)
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Condecontessa on August 14, 2010, 08:43:14 PM
Kmerov, could you please identify the personages in the pic? I'm still trying to get myself familiar with Thyra's daughters. :)
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on August 14, 2010, 09:11:33 PM
Lets see

Friedrich Franz IV, Victoria Luise, Ernst August, Maximilian of Baden, MArie Alexandra of Baden, MArie Louise of Baden nee hannover, ?


Sit: Alexandra with Christian Ludwig in her arms, Friedrich Franz, Berthold of Baden and Ernst August Hanover
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 14, 2010, 10:27:21 PM
Any photos of Ernst August & Viktoria Luise's sons as men ?
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on August 14, 2010, 11:01:40 PM
Tons

Family pic

(http://i48.tinypic.com/30af2fb.jpg)

Ernst August

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a111/eurochief/ver2-1.png)

With his Nazi uniform

(http://i49.tinypic.com/efkq34.jpg)

Georg Wilhelm and Sophie

(http://i46.tinypic.com/nye3yw.jpg)

Alone

(http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/5900/101129001.jpg)

Ernst august and  ?

(http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o458/manuesevilla3/Escalera/3803.jpg)
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Marc on August 15, 2010, 04:33:52 AM
Ernst august and  ?

http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o458/manuesevilla3/Escalera/3803.jpg (http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o458/manuesevilla3/Escalera/3803.jpg)

With Ortrud von Schleswig-Holstein...
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 15, 2010, 07:24:59 AM
Me too !  :(

Yes it looks like it is his wife.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: kmerov on August 15, 2010, 09:18:43 AM
The Hannover family shortly before WWI
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/Thyra/th_cumberlandgath.jpg) (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/Thyra/cumberlandgath.jpg)
Lets see

Friedrich Franz IV, Victoria Luise, Ernst August, Maximilian of Baden, MArie Alexandra of Baden, MArie Louise of Baden nee hannover, ?


Sit: Alexandra with Christian Ludwig in her arms, Friedrich Franz, Berthold of Baden and Ernst August Hanover

I think it's Maria Alexandra of Baden and then Princess Olga of Hannover, and Marie Louise of Baden is standing behind Ernst Augusts chair.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: kmerov on August 15, 2010, 09:23:14 AM
Ernst August and Victoria Louise with their four sons.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/Thyra/ernstaugustsons.jpg)

Their son, Ernst August.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/Thyra/ErnstAugust3.jpg)
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Condecontessa on August 15, 2010, 10:31:16 AM
Thank you so much for the identification Katenka and Kmerov. It's hard to tell Thyra's daughters apart especially if the pics are not clear. :)
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on August 15, 2010, 10:34:09 AM
Yes, you re right. Olga looks very different!
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 15, 2010, 03:58:18 PM
Thanks for posting the pictures. Not much is known about the other two sons.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: HerrKaiser on August 15, 2010, 09:22:54 PM
that photo of young EA (son of VL and EA) in the suit and tie is the one I photoshopped to show how the big difference in facial characteristics when one is in a suit vs a nazi uniform.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 15, 2010, 11:47:07 PM
Indeed. Love to know more about their lives. Their sister Frederica was much more written because she became queen.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on August 16, 2010, 07:53:04 AM
that photo of young EA (son of VL and EA) in the suit and tie is the one I photoshopped to show how the big difference in facial characteristics when one is in a suit vs a nazi uniform.

Really?  Well done!
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 16, 2010, 08:35:34 AM
Their mother was a supporter of Hitler.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: HerrKaiser on August 16, 2010, 10:09:45 AM
President Kennedy's father was a supporter of Hitler too.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on August 16, 2010, 10:11:04 AM
I think lots of people were Hitler supporters BEFORE they knew what was really going on there.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 16, 2010, 10:16:35 AM
I do not think she was an early supporter, she stayed on like her brother Auwi.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: grandduchessella on August 16, 2010, 01:48:22 PM
Hasn't there always been some disagreement about the level of VL's support for Hitler? I thought she fell into the 'middling' column (with ones like Auwi on the ardent side and George of Saxony, for instance, on the fierce resistance side).
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: HerrKaiser on August 16, 2010, 02:08:22 PM
Yes, there has been disagreement on VL's personal thoughts about Hitler, and like the vast majority of people history knows were not supporters of the criminal behavior of segments of the nazi party, she seems to have passively endorsed the programs that led Germany out of the horrible depression it was suffering from. Other notable, good people did as well--Kennedy, Lindberg, Brundage, Schindler, Stauffenberg, etc.--but most of these came to realize the horrible situation they helped create.

I just do not think it fair or reasonable for people to throw out snipits that "VL was a supporter of Hitler" without clear explanation and qualifications of what that meant.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 16, 2010, 08:30:37 PM
VL was a "visable" supporter of Hitler unlike someone like Princess Sophie of Greece, whose husband was a high ranking Nazi, yet did NOT register as a member of the Nazi Party. Ducky too was a "early supporter", but she quickly recanted (like the Ex-Kaiser Wilhelm II who was quite vocal about his anti-Nazism, and wrote in hiswill that his furneral should NOT be use for display of Nazism).
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: grandduchessella on August 17, 2010, 09:32:12 AM
The truth is always more complicated than that--especially with this issue. Wilhelm II, for instance, wrote a congratulatory telegram to Hitler when he defeated France. A bit of personal revenge on WII's part to be sure but he was capable of cheering for the Third Reich. I never heard of Ducky 'quickly recanting'. I always got the feeling VL played both sides of the fence--not uncommon in those days. Her sons were in the Hitler Youth, I believe, but didn't she send Frederika to England for schooling to escape it? It's been some time since these issues were discussed.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: PAVLOV on August 17, 2010, 10:17:23 AM
I think a number of Royals, and in particular the German family, " played" along with Hitler. It would have been very unwise for them not to. He was capable of anything. Princess Mafalda was one of the worse examples.
I think that I would probably also have pretended to support him, if my familys survival depended on it.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 17, 2010, 10:18:00 AM
Yes. But Willy did recanted afterwards rather noticably, the furneral statement left no question of him suppporting the Nazis. You are right, VL was sitting on the fence. Had the Nazis won the war, she would be on the winning side.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 17, 2010, 10:21:10 AM
Yes, but Princess Sophie did NOT play with Nazis even though her husband served them. It must be her keen conviction that she did not agree with what is going on. She married Prince Georg of Hannover (son of VL) after the War.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: HerrKaiser on August 17, 2010, 03:10:51 PM
So Eric, what is your point? This has been discussed elsewhere at great length and the out-of-context charges such as "he/she supported the nazis" covers, as Pavlov points out, a broad range of behaviors and beliefs covering a vastly changing timeframe. Are you suggesting that VL and her family be tried as war criminals? Do you suspect them of pushing people into box cars or guarding extermination camps? Maybe even loading up gas chambers?
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 17, 2010, 10:13:00 PM
Very sad affair.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: PAVLOV on August 19, 2010, 06:34:29 AM
It is sometimes very difficult to stick 100% to a topic, this one is a perfect example because it is the history of a family within the larger context of other Royal families of Germany and their past and present behaviour.So it is a very "wide" subject.
My apologies if I went off context but I was just responding to what was being discussed.
The whole Nazi thing is very interesting. I have read "Royals and the Reich" twice, so i find the this topic interesting.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 20, 2010, 08:17:47 AM
No...I doubt that they were involved in the affairs of the Reich. However they were not shy about backing the establishment even though it was wrong (targeting the Jews and other groups). No they were not war criimanals but they were not respectable peope (VL & Awui) either.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: kmerov on August 22, 2010, 10:08:51 AM
The RF of Hannover
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/Thyra/HannoverRF.jpg)
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on August 22, 2010, 10:18:08 AM
Found as Princess Marie Hanover

(http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/5804/mariehannoiverd.jpg) (http://img837.imageshack.us/i/mariehannoiverd.jpg/)

 

Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on September 02, 2010, 07:49:36 AM
Welf Heinrich (VL last child) marriage with Princess Alexandra Sophie of Ysenburg and Büdingen

(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/7237/welfheinrich.jpg) (http://img203.imageshack.us/i/welfheinrich.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: HerrKaiser on September 02, 2010, 10:27:32 AM
Prince Welf was a bit older than his young wife. He passed about 15 years ago, but Princess Alexandra remains alive and well and is still working with the Frankfurt city council in a tourism and cultural capacity.

How was her relationship with her mother in law?
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: kmerov on September 03, 2010, 10:05:48 AM
King George V, Ernst August and Friederike.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/Thyra/georgeVFriedrikkeErnstAugust.jpg)
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: kmerov on September 03, 2010, 10:07:17 AM
Ernst August with his son and daughter-in-law.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/Thyra/ErnstAugustVictoria-LouiseErnstAugust.jpg)
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on September 03, 2010, 10:13:30 AM
The first one was already posted but the second is new at least for me. I love to see VL smile. Thanks!
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 03, 2010, 12:32:09 PM
Well...VL smiled like a cat...I like Thyra's shy smile better.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: HerrKaiser on September 03, 2010, 05:30:37 PM
Thyra hardly ever smiled in photos; she was emotionless and stone-faced, not unlike most of her peers, but certainly not a person who conveyed any particular emotion in her images. As far as being shy, we know that in today's world she would have been considered a bit of a hussy as a teenager, so shyness is not a term I would apply to her.

Victoria Luise, on the other hand, had an utterly and completely genuine smile and demeanor. If by "cat" like you suggest hers was a sly or sinister look, you couldn't be further from reality. She is one of the few royals of her era to have demonstrated pleasing facial expressions in photos...all very kind in appearance and full of sweetness. This is well documented among various people who were graced by her presence.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 03, 2010, 06:07:25 PM
I don't think VL's smile is sweet at all. She is known not to be the easy one to get along with, especially later with her daughter Queen Frederica of Greece. She went so far to call Princess Nicholas of Greece "her real mother", that is how sweet VL is. To me her smile is all smugness (a bit like her mother Dona). Thyra was called "My sweet daughter" by King Christian IX of Denmark. I don't think her early indescretion qualify her of being a hussy. That title belonged to someone like Luise of Tuscany or even Marie of Romania. Her shy smile was warm and genuine. All her children adored her (including VL), and that speak volumes.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Svetabel on September 04, 2010, 12:34:38 AM

Victoria Luise, on the other hand, had an utterly and completely genuine smile and demeanor. If by "cat" like you suggest hers was a sly or sinister look, you couldn't be further from reality. She is one of the few royals of her era to have demonstrated pleasing facial expressions in photos...all very kind in appearance and full of sweetness. This is well documented among various people who were graced by her presence.

I'd say VL's smile looks foxy...
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 05, 2010, 06:47:16 PM
I agree "foxy"is a very good description too.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: HerrKaiser on September 07, 2010, 12:33:12 PM
The common use of "foxy" implies sexy and hip. VL might be considered both, but I think it is a real stretch to apply such terms to her.

The other implication of "foxy" is 'acting like a fox' which again suggests unsavory personality traits and a sneaky, untrustworthy character. This is totally inaccurate, both historically and based on any personal biases one might choose to embrace.

The fact that daughter Frederica made a loving comment about her a woman close proximity to her in a strange land bears nothing valid to discredit VL's long term and overall remarkably high respect and adoration from most people.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 07, 2010, 01:22:32 PM
Well...I think she was not a bad person, but someone who is not easy to get along with. As the only daughter of the last Kaiser, it is easy to be spoilt and over bearing. No the feud with her daughter was well known and did not entirely healed when she died.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: HerrKaiser on September 07, 2010, 03:38:36 PM
Being spoiled and somewhat overbearing are traits that every royal household was familiar with. In fact, part of being royal was taking on aires of the privileged class and they were they privileged of the privileged. So, unless there are evidences that VL was unusually mean spirited, which I have never read in her bios, I don't see why a strained relationship with one or more of her children should denigrate her persona of geniunely kind and label her as "hard to get along with'. on the contrary, the personal reports by people being in her presence overwhelmingly show her to be of the utmost in gentile manner and behavior.

Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 07, 2010, 04:58:09 PM
Well...If one could not be kind with their children, who can they be nice to ? Thyra, her mother-in-law was the most gentle of all and never had a tiff with anybody (children included).
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: HerrKaiser on September 07, 2010, 06:06:49 PM
Eric, what are the sources of information you have that gives such definitive accounts of the personality of Thyra? As far as I am aware, she has not been biographied in depth and most of what is known about her is supposition and hersay.

on the contrary, Victoria Luise has been documented fairly well. The minor familial (and common) disagreements VL may have had with family members does not frame or define her character or personality. Being a fan of Thyra for personal, romantic reasons is fine, but I for one would prefer broad speculations on very important character traits based on slight smiles in photos, for example, not be used impropertly here.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Svetabel on September 07, 2010, 11:09:15 PM
The common use of "foxy" implies sexy and hip. VL might be considered both, but I think it is a real stretch to apply such terms to her.

The other implication of "foxy" is 'acting like a fox' which again suggests unsavory personality traits and a sneaky, untrustworthy character. This is totally inaccurate, both historically and based on any personal biases one might choose to embrace.



"Foxy" I meant only she looked like a little fox with her smile...nothing more, as I didn't learn VL's life in depth I just said about my impression of her face in the photos.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Kalafrana on September 08, 2010, 08:01:50 AM
Victoria Louise could be quite formidable if this story, recorded by Charles Higham in a book about Prince Philip is reliable.

At the end of WW2, American troops came to VL's house and arrested her son Georg Wilhelm. VL told them not to manhandle him as he was a Prince of Hreat Britain and Ireland (quite correct, the Titles Deprivation Act 1917 did not affect him as he was below military age in WW1).

But after all, she was the Kaiser's daughter.

Ann
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 08, 2010, 10:02:31 AM
I have done quite extensive research on Thyra myself and thinking of publishing them. There is a great wealth of material on her, it is just that sinceshe play no political role, people were not as interested in her story.

Yes Kalafrana, VL was a Kaiser's daughter and did not let anyone forget it. So was her daughter Frederike. When a British newspaper man once asked her about being the Kaiser's granddaughter, she said "Yes, but had the British had the Salic Law, I would have been your Princess." She was talking about her great Great grandfather King George V of Hannover, who would have replaced Victoria as ruler had the Salic law been in place.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Naslednik Norvezhskiy on October 20, 2010, 06:41:56 PM
Speaking about George V, I've recently read (in "Fatherlands: state-building and nationhood in nineteenth-century Germany" by Abigail Green) that while King Ernst August and his Queen Frederica had managed to combine a splendid and impressive court with model private domesticity (something the author describes as typically British since the accession of Queen Victoria), George V and Queen Marie did not cut a good figure on the stage of a royal court. Much like Nicholas and Alexandra they retreated into bourgeois domesticity, with the result that they were quite isolated when "the crisis" came (in their case 1866, just like WWI in NII & AF's case). The reason was that they were uncomfortable in a public court setting, George because of his blindness, which was an extremely touchy and awkward issue because he pretended not to be blind and which made him neglect the visual drama of pomp and circumstances; Marie because she came from such a small court (Altenburg), felt insecure in a big court and among other royals and tried to make herself popular through informality. According to Abigail Green, the result was that the court was shunned by royal relatives and the high-ranking nobles and full of low-ranking, dubious individuals.  

Green remarks that George and Marie avoided contact with other royals, with the exception of the Queen's own Altenburg family, especially her sisters the Grand Duchess of Oldenburg, Grand Duchess Alexandra Iosifovna and the unmarried Princess Therese. I think this state of affairs can explain that it was not just 1866 that was the reason for how their children married: Their son and heir married royal yet "damaged goods"*, Frederica her father's equerry, a mere baron, and Marie dind't marry at all.

* In all discussions about Thyra's marriage, I have always seen it speculated that although the general public never knew about Thyra's "faux pas", royal insiders probably did and the Hanoverians probably accepted Thyra knowing about her past, but were happy they could secure a royal bride as exiles. But reading how isolated they were from the international royal crowd also pre-1866, perhaps they did not know?
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 22, 2010, 05:09:24 PM
Yes. Ernst (who was quite ugly but assumed rich) was lucky to get a wife who was gentle, sweet and well connected (to Britain & Russia).
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Svetabel on December 08, 2010, 02:20:15 AM
Queen Marie of Hannover, with her daughter Mary and suite.

(http://www.picatom.com/1q/Untitled2-192-th.jpg) (http://www.picatom.com/1q/Untitled2-192.html)
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Svetabel on December 08, 2010, 02:31:20 AM
Duke Ernst August with his wife Thyra, children Christian and Olga. Others are suite. 1907 year.

(http://www.picatom.com/1q/Untitled1-631-th.jpg) (http://www.picatom.com/1q/Untitled1-631.html)

Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 08, 2010, 12:24:49 PM
The lady shielding the sunlight looks like Grand Duchess Vera (sister of Queen Olga of Greece) to me.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: THERRY on May 06, 2011, 02:07:16 AM
(http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/4828/friederikevonhannover.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/851/friederikevonhannover.jpg/)
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on May 24, 2011, 08:01:47 AM
Georg Wilhelm Hannover with aunt Kronprinzessin Cecilie.

(http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/664/georwilhelmhjannebrio.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/834/georwilhelmhjannebrio.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on May 31, 2011, 08:41:54 AM
Young duke Ernst August

(http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/9937/kgrhquokpye25ykckezbn0h.jpg)
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 07, 2011, 05:09:27 PM
Not very handsome even then, but he was kind and didn't care about Thyra's past.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: HerrKaiser on June 08, 2011, 10:22:17 AM
Not very handsome even then, but he was kind and didn't care about Thyra's past.

did he have a hare lip? It certainly looks like it. With a face like that, he was lucky to get any wife, regardless if she had previously won the cheap tootsie award.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Kalafrana on June 08, 2011, 10:52:42 AM
'did he have a hare lip? It certainly looks like it.'

I don't think so. Presumably, Herr Kaiser, you are referring to his lower lip. I'm happy to be corrected but I think hare lips are always upper. It looks more as though the skin of his lower lip has split in cold weather before the days of lip salve.

Ann
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 08, 2011, 12:31:44 PM
Ernst August was lucky to get a wife who was sweet and unambitious. Indeed, he was not much of a looker (and in fact regarded as ugly by quite a lot of people).
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: grandduchessella on June 08, 2011, 05:03:27 PM
Regardless of his looks he was still immensely rich and well-connected (especially to the royal families of England and Russia). I don't doubt that, barring any religious difficulties, he wouldn't have been able to find an eligible princess. Royalty of this period wasn't especially known for their dazzling looks. If the family hadn't lost the throne of Hannover, he would have faced even less trouble. A crown can make a princess overlook many flaws!
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 09, 2011, 02:32:29 PM
Yes. However by that time, many princess began to have ideas of their own in their marriages. Especially well connected heiresses. Grand Duchess Olga Nichievena took one look at the Crown Prince of Bavaria and told her father the Tsar "You could not expect me to marry someone that stupid !"
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: grandduchessella on June 09, 2011, 03:05:01 PM
I would say that was the exception rather than the rule. In the 1870s most princesses pretty much toed the line.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Kalafrana on June 10, 2011, 03:31:17 AM
'Grand Duchess Olga Nichievena took one look at the Crown Prince of Bavaria and told her father the Tsar "You could not expect me to marry someone that stupid !"'
 

Eiric

Can you produce a source for this?

Ann
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 14, 2011, 01:42:03 PM
I think that is in the Ludwig I of Bavaria book by Corti. I quoted it in my article on the lives of Grand Duchesses.

Also Ernst August was the sworn enemy of Bismark, and that deceases his chances of marrying German princesses. Denmark was no friend of either Germany or Bismark, that helped it cemented the relationship quickly.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on June 15, 2011, 08:46:14 AM
Portrait identifyed as Pss Marie of Hannover.

(http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/7394/tumblrlmgadc6mnv1qf46ef.jpg)
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Svetabel on June 15, 2011, 10:47:03 AM
Portrait identifyed as Pss Marie of Hannover.




That's Queen Marie of Hannover.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 15, 2011, 10:51:07 AM
Yes. Queen Marie of Hannover. Where is this delightful portrait located ?
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Veronica on June 15, 2011, 01:23:47 PM
It's on sale in an auction house.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 15, 2011, 03:16:48 PM
Sotheby's or Christie's or in Germany ?
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Marc on June 18, 2011, 06:53:16 AM
Austria...it is labeled as Princess Marie of Hanover but don't know for sure if it's really her...

About the portrait:

"Unfortunately in bad condition, it is an extraordinarily large (44.5 x 34cm!!) miniature on ivory featuring a full-length portrait of 24-years-old Princess Marie of Hanover (1844-1904; see our additional images nr.9-10)
This extremely large miniature on ivory is likely painted on several layers of wafers attached together. Well-known expert on portrait miniatures, Bern Pappe, in his article "Kunst und Können in der Miniaturmalerei" (see "Miniatures aus der Sammlung Tansey", Munich 2000, pages 17-27), while mentioning a relatively large miniature of Jean-Baptiste-Jacques Augustin (1759-1832), also notices the following: "Für grössere Formate klebte Augustin häufig ein Elfenbeinblatt auf eine dicke Karton- oder Holzplatte (sic!) und erweiterte den Bildträger rundum mit dünnen Kartonstreifen. Den Übergang nivellierte er mit Kreidegrund aus. (In English: For larger sizes Augustin used to glue an ivory wafer on either a thick cardboard or wood panel and attached around the painting pieces of card to enlarge it. He leveled the transition areas with chalk ground)".
We are sure our miniature was produced using the same technique (see for example our image nr.7 with a trace of one of these attachments).

Concerning the author, London miniaturist F. A. Tilt, Daphne Foskett writes the following:
"Tilt, F. A. (fl. 1866-1868). Of London and Epsom. Father of E. P. Tilt (g. v.) with whom he shared an address. Exhibited at the R. A., 1866-1868. Had a distinguished clientele which included H. M. Queen Victoria, whose portrait he painted in 1867, "by command; the original miniature for which the enamel was prepared for Mr. Peabody"; H. R. H. the Prince and Princess of Wales; Prince Albert and Prince George (also by command); the Earl and Countess Danvers; the Duke and Duchess de Frias; the Marquis of Anglesea, etc. Many of his miniatures were stated to be on enamel, the others were on ivory. A portrait of Sir William Erle by him is at the National Portrait Gallery, London". "
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 19, 2011, 11:26:44 AM
Thanks Marc for the information. It is definitely Queen Marie of Hannover and not her daughter Mary. There is a funny story that George V (of Hannover) who was quite blind almost chose the wrong sister (as they were all sitting in front of him) and tripped...
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Marc on June 19, 2011, 12:47:37 PM
Well,maybe...but confusing fact is that this portrait was painted in 1868 and by that time Queen Marie would be 50 years old and the woman doesn't look like 50 years old:

(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k126/auersperg21/MarieHan.jpg)

In that same period(1866-1868),as written above,Tilt was "ordered"(by command) to paint Queen Victoria in 1867 and some of her children and extended family members!
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 19, 2011, 01:04:22 PM
Yes. That is problematic. The only reason is maybe it was a "highly idealized" portrait.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Svetabel on June 20, 2011, 12:25:27 AM
Well,maybe...but confusing fact is that this portrait was painted in 1868 and by that time Queen Marie would be 50 years old and the woman doesn't look like 50 years old:



In that same period(1866-1868),as written above,Tilt was "ordered"(by command) to paint Queen Victoria in 1867 and some of her children and extended family members!

I've seen many portrais of aged women with idealized features...)) Why not to flatter a 50 years old Queen?
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Marc on June 20, 2011, 06:13:00 AM
Well,could be also that...but could be also that mother and daughter looked alike and that daughter was painted to look like her mother("highly idealized" as Eric said)

To me they looked similar just Queen Marie had a bit more round face:

http://ookaboo.com/o/pictures/picture.large/22930147/Marie_and_Marie_from_Hanover_postcard_by

Concerning the identity,one might never know and be sure as there are so many mislabeled photos and portraits circulating around the web!
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Превед on July 15, 2017, 07:50:53 AM
A week ago Hereditary Prince Ernst August (junior) of Hanover married the London-based Russo-Czech cat suit designer (brand EKAT) Ekaterina Malysheva during ceremonies in Hannover and at Marienburg. His father was not present at the wedding due to conflicting opinions about the management of family properties.
See http://ru-royalty.livejournal.com/5083998.html (http://ru-royalty.livejournal.com/5083998.html)

Malysheva (Малышева) is a common Russian family name that can be translated as Young, Child, Little etc. There was a noble family with this name (see https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9C%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8B%D1%88%D0%B5%D0%B2%D1%8B, but it is not likely that the Princess of Hanover, who was raied in Prague as the daughter of a Russian businessman, belongs to it.

A Slavophone Princess of Hanover raised on the banks of the Elbe's tributary the Vltava / Moldau should pay a visit to the ancient Slavophone region of the Electorate of Hanover: The Hanoverian Wendland (= Slavic land), where the last speaker of Polabian (po Labe = by the Elbe) died in 1756.
Title: Re: The House of Hannover,past and present
Post by: Превед on July 15, 2017, 08:32:17 AM
A week ago Hereditary Prince Ernst August (junior) of Hanover married the London-based Russo-Czech cat suit designer (brand EKAT) Ekaterina Malysheva during ceremonies in Hannover and at Marienburg. His father was not present at the wedding due to conflicting opinions about the management of family properties.
See http://ru-royalty.livejournal.com/5083998.html (http://ru-royalty.livejournal.com/5083998.html)

Malysheva (Малышева) is a common Russian family name that can be translated as Young, Child, Little etc. There was a noble family with this name (see https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9C%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8B%D1%88%D0%B5%D0%B2%D1%8B, but it is not likely that the Princess of Hanover, who was raied in Prague as the daughter of a Russian businessman, belongs to it.

In an interview with Tatler she says she was born and lived her first years in Apatiy on the Kola Pensinsula in the Murmansk region, where her father was a scientist. But she attended American international school in Prague and speaks English better than Russian. Nonetheless she assisted with Russian-English translation for a documentary about Pussy Riot.