Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => Rulers Prior to Nicholas II => Topic started by: Marc on July 05, 2005, 07:31:05 AM

Title: Yevdokia Lopukhina, 1st wife of Emperor Peter the Great
Post by: Marc on July 05, 2005, 07:31:05 AM
I have been reading a lot about Peter the Great and wanted to know more about his first wife Yevdokia Lopukhina!I am interested also in her portrait in colour since I could not find anything on the web...And assume,since Peter II was for brief an Emperor that there schould be some of her!
Title: Re: Yevdokia Lopukhina, 1st wife of Emperor Peter the Great
Post by: Fay on July 05, 2005, 11:39:04 AM
Well, Yevdokia was very religious and attached to the tradition, for her family was conservative. Peter did not love her, and often urged her to take the veil, which she eventually did. Yevdokia lived in a monastery for almost twenty years.
Title: Re: Yevdokia Lopukhina, 1st wife of Emperor Peter the Great
Post by: Robert_Hall on July 05, 2005, 12:04:14 PM
Her birthday was/is 30 June/10 July 1670. I have been trying to locate a picture of her.
She died 27 August/7 September 1731. [divorced from Peter 1689].
Title: Re: Yevdokia Lopukhina, 1st wife of Emperor Peter the Great
Post by: Marc on July 05, 2005, 12:13:42 PM
Please do,I would like to see how she looked like so much,but can't find anything on the web!
Title: Re: Yevdokia Lopukhina, 1st wife of Emperor Peter the Great
Post by: hikaru on July 05, 2005, 02:10:04 PM
She was beatiful woman.
She went to the Pokrovsky Monastery of Suzdaly, when she had a lover. It is said that she was preparing some little court revolution. She wrote letters to her son Alexey.
Peter then transferred her to the Novodevichy Monastery in Moscow where she died and we could see her crypt there in the old Smolensky cathedral.
Peter II used to visit her in the Monastery before she died.

There is a rumour that Nicholas II also often came to the  Suzdal Pokrovsky Monsastery to ask the God for his Alexey.But maybe, it is just rumour.
Now in Suzdal on 16th July will take place famouse Cucumber Festival. Because this city is famouse by cucumbers. Almost all Romanovs eat the Suzdal's cucumbers every day.
Title: Re: Yevdokia Lopukhina, 1st wife of Emperor Peter the Great
Post by: Robert_Hall on July 05, 2005, 02:13:59 PM
Can you find us a picture of her, Hikaru ? Please ?
Title: Re: Yevdokia Lopukhina, 1st wife of Emperor Peter the Great
Post by: hikaru on July 05, 2005, 02:55:56 PM
Yes I have a photo , but have no scanner.
I forgot to say that  Yevdokiya also made a small stop in the Shlisselyburg Fortress by the order of Ekaterina I.
But she survived and died only in 1831.
Her Grandson Peter II  wanted her to live with him in the Palace as the Empresse but she choose the Novodevichy Monastery.

When Evdokiya forced to become a nun , her name was changed to Elena.
Title: Re: Yevdokia Lopukhina, 1st wife of Emperor Peter the Great
Post by: David_Pritchard on July 05, 2005, 06:16:07 PM
Evdokia Feodorovna Lopukhina was born outside of the city of Moscow on 30 June 1670 (O.S.) to Feodor Abramovich Lopukhin and Ustinia Bogdanovna Rtishcheva. She married Peter Alexeivich Romanov on 6 February 1689, They had three sons, Alexis in 1680, Alexander, in 1691 and an unnamed son in 1693. Of these three children only the first born lived to adulthood. The couple divorced in 1698. Evdokia lived on until her death on 27 August 1731 (O.S.).

Does anyone know if Axinia Feodorovna Lopukhina was the sister of Evdokia Feodorovna Loupukhina? Axinia Feodorovna Lopukhina was the wife of Prince Boris Kurakin who was Peter the Great's Ambassador to England and France.

DAP



Title: Re: Yevdokia Lopukhina, 1st wife of Emperor Peter the Great
Post by: umigon on July 05, 2005, 06:37:00 PM


The unnamed son was not unnamed, his name was Paul, he died aged five months. Peter II, with his ambiguous and egoistic character, never truly wanted his grandmother by his side, but he proposed it to her just in order to do what "seemed to be correct". He must have felt relieved when she refused to leave her convent!!! His visits to Eudoxia were sporadic and of courtesy, never for pleasure. Eudoxia, by the way, judged her grandson to be exactly as impulsive, charming and attractive as Peter I had been, but she knew that Peter II was far less talented than her ex-husband.

This is just a curious remark: I read somewhere, although it was not written in a reliable source (Internet article), that Peter I divorced from Eudoxia on charges of adultery and lesbianism!! I'll try to learn more about this, but just to see what you think about it and if you have also read it somewhere!!
Title: Re: Yevdokia Lopukhina, 1st wife of Emperor Peter the Great
Post by: Grand Duke on July 05, 2005, 07:22:50 PM
Eudoxia Lopukhina

(http://genealogia.sapo.pt/images/pessoas/pes_9498.jpg)
Title: Re: Yevdokia Lopukhina, 1st wife of Emperor Peter the Great
Post by: hikaru on July 05, 2005, 11:43:30 PM
Peter II died at 14. We can not say how much he was talented.
A lot of people around he said that he had  a lot of common points with Peter I.
Title: Re: Yevdokia Lopukhina, 1st wife of Emperor Peter the Great
Post by: umigon on July 06, 2005, 05:48:44 AM


Yes, but we know that Peter was capricious, egoistic and loved alcohol. He also engaged in many rage fits and he seduced men and women at this young age. I think that we can, indeed, see if someone is talented when he is 14 or not.

He was not happy with his marriage to Catherine Menshikova but he still went ahead with it. I don't think he would have been a good ruler, always interested in parties, alcohol and sex (precisely when he was JUST between 12 and 14!!). He was controlled by his many favourites, such as his aunt and possible lover Elizabeth Petrovna (firstly) and his lover Ivan Dolgoruky (secondly). I think there is evidence enough that, as Eudoxia thought of him, he would have been very much alike his grandfather as a person but, lacking Peter I's talents, he would have failed to reign as successfully as Peter I did.


Has anyone discovered anything about Eudoxia's lesbianism? Is this true?
Title: Re: Yevdokia Lopukhina, 1st wife of Emperor Peter the Great
Post by: Fay on July 06, 2005, 07:19:47 AM
Unfortunately no, but I 've read that Alexander Menshikov was Peter I's lover. Is THIS true?
Title: Re: Yevdokia Lopukhina, 1st wife of Emperor Peter the Great
Post by: hikaru on July 06, 2005, 07:23:09 AM
About PEter II , there are several points of view.
Maybe when he will be the Tsar, he could be better that he was. HE was not a fool.
But we will know know about it.
His crypt is in Arkhangelsky Cathedral of Moscow Kremlin.

I never heard about Evdokiya as l......The nuns of Suzdal, they had no necessary to be lesbians!
They had the  secret tunnel connected with the one of the biggest men's convent in Russia - Spaso-Efimievsky convent.
Title: Re: Yevdokia Lopukhina, 1st wife of Emperor Peter the Great
Post by: umigon on July 06, 2005, 07:44:50 AM


About Peter and Alexander, it is probably true that they were lovers, I have heard that more than once. So many years together, sharing friendliness, adventures and even lovers... It is not a stupid idea, from my point of view it was indeed very possible.

When Alexander was much caring for his wife than for the Tsar, Peter became very angry and jealous, so, it could be!


Of course, hikaru, there are always different points of view for every monarch... Its obvious that ours, in this particular Tsar, differ from each other. But that is normal, even better, it makes the discussion richer!
Title: Re: Yevdokia Lopukhina, 1st wife of Emperor Peter the Great
Post by: hikaru on July 06, 2005, 07:54:38 AM
I do not think that Peter could do it with a man. They just were very close. They could sleep in one bad because of cold or danger, but Peter loved women.
He have got Catherine from Menshikov.
Title: Re: Yevdokia Lopukhina, 1st wife of Emperor Peter the Great
Post by: umigon on July 06, 2005, 08:32:14 AM


Of course he loved women, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't have sex with a man... look at his grandson, Peter II, who was openly bisexual...

I think it is a possibility...
Title: Re: Yevdokia Lopukhina, 1st wife of Emperor Peter the Great
Post by: hikaru on July 06, 2005, 09:21:59 AM
we have one guide-book which called "Other Petersburg". It was written by one quite known gay of Petersburg. He studied carefully all Romanovs from this point of view. But he did not mention Peter the Great.
Title: Re: Yevdokia Lopukhina, 1st wife of Emperor Peter the Great
Post by: Fay on July 06, 2005, 09:50:31 AM
And whom did he mention? :-/
Title: Re: Yevdokia Lopukhina, 1st wife of Emperor Peter the Great
Post by: Grand Duke on July 06, 2005, 04:06:04 PM
Quote
This is just a curious remark: I read somewhere, although it was not written in a reliable source (Internet article), that Peter I divorced from Eudoxia on charges of adultery and lesbianism!! I'll try to learn more about this, but just to see what you think about it and if you have also read it somewhere!!


I found this at http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/E/EU/EUDOXIA_LOPUKHINA.htm:

<<In 1698 she was unceremoniously sent off to the Pokrovsky monastery at Suzdal for refusing to consent to a divorce, though it was not till June 1699 that she disappeared from the world beneath the hood of sister Elena. In the monastery, however, she was held in high honor by the archimandrite; the nuns persisted in regarding her as the lawful empress; and she was permitted an extraordinary degree of latitude, unknown to Peter, who dragged her from her enforced retreat in 1718 on a charge of adultery. As the evidence was collected by Peters creatures, it is very doubtful whether Eudoxia was guilty, though she was compelled to make a public confession. She was then divorced and consigned to the remote monastery of Ladoga.>>

Title: Re: Yevdokia Lopukhina, 1st wife of Emperor Peter the Great
Post by: Marc on November 22, 2005, 07:52:05 PM
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b375/auersperg22/11.jpg)
Title: Re: Yevdokia Lopukhina, 1st wife of Emperor Peter the Great
Post by: Marc on November 22, 2005, 07:52:51 PM
And one colour portrait of her...
Title: Re: Yevdokia Lopukhina, 1st wife of Emperor Peter the Great
Post by: Macedonsky on November 24, 2005, 04:43:31 AM
Quote
The unnamed son was not unnamed, his name was Paul, he died aged five months.

There was no such tsarevich, as like as another myphical tsarevich Peter 1719-1723. Five months is very interesting detail, most sources said (wrongly) just 1693-1693.
Title: Re: Yevdokia Lopukhina, 1st wife of Emperor Peter the Great
Post by: imperial angel on April 10, 2006, 11:48:10 AM
Evdokia was very traditional, yes, married to a traditional Czar she would have been perfect, but married to Peter the Great-no. As for Peter II, he was very young, and it's hard to judge, before I read this thread I hadn't realized he was so...wild although he was but 14. I had heard that it is possible that Elizabeth Petrovna and him were lovers, and it's possible, knowing the both of them. As for Evdokia, she was rather traditional, so one wonders about any adultery charges. Henry VIII used that to get rid of wives as well.
Title: Re: Yevdokia Lopukhina, 1st wife of Emperor Peter the Great
Post by: ilyala on April 11, 2006, 07:48:51 AM
peter had to have a reason for the divorce. irreconciliable differences was not accepted at the time..
Title: Re: Yevdokia Lopukhina, 1st wife of Emperor Peter the Great
Post by: Robert_Hall on April 11, 2006, 08:05:49 AM
He was the Emperor & Autocrat- he did really need a reason other than he did not want her around any more.
Title: Re: Yevdokia Lopukhina, 1st wife of Emperor Peter the Great
Post by: ilyala on April 11, 2006, 08:24:15 AM
i don't think it's that simple even for autocrats. they can be driven down by the people if they don't do well... they have a public image to maintain. the public can be sympathetic to the poor wife... i don't think even an autocrat can do whatever he pleases. henry 8th didn't just execute anne bolleyn, he organized a trial. everyone with a brain i'm sure knew what the outcome was going to be but at least the illusion of a fair trial was kept.
Title: Re: Yevdokia Lopukhina, 1st wife of Emperor Peter the Great
Post by: imperial angel on April 11, 2006, 10:25:20 AM
It is true that the the appreances needed to be maintained, and so they were, by these rulers. One of Henry's wives, Catherine Howard, certainly did commit adultery, but other than that the charges he got rid of wives on were rather dubious. As for Evdokia, given the example of many Russian Empresses to come, she may have actually done something. But at the same time, she seems like a traditional Muscovite Tsarina, and they woudn't have done this. But sometimes it's what we want over the truth.
Title: Re: Yevdokia Lopukhina, 1st wife of Emperor Peter the Great
Post by: Robert_Hall on April 11, 2006, 11:25:34 AM
I think Peter was far more of a determined autocrat than Henry VIII ever dreamed of being ! He certainly did not let public opinion stand in his way in the case of reforms & modernisation.  He even abolished the patriarchy! What is a bit surprising  to me is that poor Evdokia even survived as long as she did !
Title: Re: Yevdokia Lopukhina, 1st wife of Emperor Peter the Great
Post by: imperial angel on April 11, 2006, 11:40:28 AM
oh yes, he was an autocrat, and if there hadn't been the monastery option, of putting discarded wives in a monastery, one wonders how long she would have survived. I think that's the only reason she did at all.
Title: Re: Yevdokia Lopukhina, 1st wife of Emperor Peter the Great
Post by: ilyala on April 12, 2006, 04:34:00 AM
Quote
I think Peter was far more of a determined autocrat than Henry VIII ever dreamed of being ! He certainly did not let public opinion stand in his way in the case of reforms & modernisation.  He even abolished the patriarchy! What is a bit surprising  to me is that poor Evdokia even survived as long as she did !

he was much stronger but i still think a level of appearance and public image had to be kept. in the end he was made by the people: the heirs to the throne were the daughters of his older brother, ivan, he was on the throne because the public wanted a healthy tsar. that's why initially he was on that throne alone and his older brother was ignored (remember he became tsar when he was a child, he was made one, he didn't fight for his throne till a lot later).  i really don't think he wasn't aware that he had to maintain at least the illusion of decency.
Title: Re: Yevdokia Lopukhina, 1st wife of Emperor Peter the Great
Post by: imperial angel on April 12, 2006, 08:36:48 AM
I think most rulers most places then realized that they had to support the illusion of decency at least to some degree. As an autocrat, in a not so westernized country, and being very dominating, and strong willed, Peter had to do it less than others might have had to. But there had been palace revolutions before if a opposite group did not approve of the current ruler, or to get power for themselves and the like. Peter knew this.
Title: Re: Yevdokia Lopukhina, 1st wife of Emperor Peter the Great
Post by: agordon2000 on December 15, 2013, 06:52:36 PM
This was not a question of his will but that of the church. Even they refused to tonsure her for six months because they thought this was highly irregular and some archbishops declared it heresy.He could not do whatever he wanted without reason.  Later when he killed her lover Stephen Glebov it was not out of jealousy but his desire to wipe out all the dissidents and he considered that those around his ex-wife were a center of opposition, which they were. He killed Glebov in a purge after his son returned.