Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => The Imperial Family => Topic started by: grandduchess_42 on August 10, 2005, 01:12:03 PM

Title: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: grandduchess_42 on August 10, 2005, 01:12:03 PM
i read a book that the GDs and the tsaravtich had a allowence. is this true?
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Laura Mabee on August 10, 2005, 01:49:02 PM
I think so,I know that Bob has links as to what they spent what I thought as their "allowance" on for:
Maria - in 1910-  (http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/mexpenses.html)
and
Alexei -in 1910- (http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/taexpenses.html)
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Baby Tsarevich on August 10, 2005, 02:26:41 PM
Thanx for posting that Laura Mabee!

~Anya~
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Forum Admin on August 10, 2005, 03:18:56 PM
Spridovitch also recounts how it delighted the Grand Duchesses when they were visting Cowes England to be able to go into the shops and buy little trinkets with their own money and to take a ferry boat and pay for it themselves.
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Tsarfan on August 10, 2005, 04:37:28 PM
Quote
I think so,I know that Bob has links as to what they spent what I thought as their "allowance" on for:
Maria - in 1910-  (http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/mexpenses.html)
and
Alexei -in 1910- (http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/taexpenses.html)


The link on Maria's expenses for 1910 contains a very interesting item.  She was taking German lessons, and apparently quite a few of them.

On another thread, we had quite a discussion going trying to figure out how much German the children spoke and when they acquired it.

It would seem the common perception that the children were not arduously schooled in German may be wrong.
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Prince_Christopher on August 10, 2005, 05:39:41 PM
I don't think their allowances were very much.  I've read that the Grand Duchesses spent theirs mostly on perfume and notepaper, and often pooled their money to buy gifts for other people.
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: grandduchess_42 on August 10, 2005, 05:56:20 PM
yeah thanks for the links. i read that nastya had like 20 rubies. and i was like "WHOA" and she didn't think that was alot.

yeah i read that she bought maria a gift for her birthday or somthing. she bought her perfume.
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: clockworkgirl21 on August 10, 2005, 11:11:04 PM
Did they have to do chores to get this money? Or did they just have it given to them?
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Forum Admin on August 11, 2005, 09:04:55 AM
In the Imperial era, proper young ladies like the GDs would not have "done chores" to earn money.
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: clockworkgirl21 on August 11, 2005, 12:46:48 PM
Hmm. I didn't think they would have. But then they had no reason to complain that they didn't get enough.  ::)
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Shvibzik on August 11, 2005, 02:31:27 PM
Quote
yeah thanks for the links. i read that nastya had like 20 rubies. and i was like "WHOA" and she didn't think that was alot.

yeah i read that she bought maria a gift for her birthday or somthing. she bought her perfume.

Do you mean "rubles"?  I don't think they were given rubies for their allowences. :P

I don't remember the equivelent of a ruble to UK currency or US currency, and I don't have any books with me, but I'm sure someone else does. ;)
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Forum Admin on August 11, 2005, 03:11:20 PM
The exact measure of money then vs now is not quite as easy as you might think. Now, most of the equivalents I have seen, and the ones I use most, indicate that 20 rubles in 1910 era would be the same as 200 US$ today. It may actually be a bit higher than that, given purchasing power and the shifting costs between goods and labor.  Back then, labor was very cheap, and the goods were more expensive. Today, labor is very expensive comparatively and goods are less so. However, it should give you some idea.

For comparison sake, a room in the Hotel Europa, the best in Petersburg could be had for 1.50 rubles a night for the cheapest room, and dinner in the hotel restaurant was 2 rubles. (I daresay dinner at the Hotel Europa today will cost more than $20!) You could hire a carriage for an entire day for 10 rubles, and a carriage from a hotel to the theater and back including a stop for dinner at a restaurant was 3 rubles. So, 20 rubles had pretty decent purchasing power for "an allowance"
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Sarushka on August 12, 2005, 09:13:05 AM
According to Count Alexander Grabbe in The Private World of the Last Tsar, Grand Duchess Maria Nikolaevna received $9 a month as her allowance.
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: JD on April 27, 2006, 11:59:37 PM
What happened when a member of the family went out in public? I remember reading a newspaper article on this site that talked about Nicholas going for daily, unaccompanied carriage rides.  This seems totally implausible - does anyone know if it's true? I've also wondered about what happened when one of the IF felt like going to the hermitage, something that apparently happened - would the entire building have to be cleared? What with all the assassination attempts taking place around that era, and the Romanov's being probably the most hated family on earth, it's always seemed a miracle to me they got through unscathed 35-some years. I've always been interested in their security system, but last I knew there weren't any books on the subject.
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Forum Admin on April 28, 2006, 10:00:33 AM
JD

There is no "specific" book on the subject, however Spiridovitch, the head of the Personal Secret Security Police for the IF wrote his memoirs and shed much detailed light on the subject. Published only in Russian and French, never translated into English and published.  I have translated much of it myself from the French. The details are being saved for Bob's book on daily life in the AP. After that, I may finish the translation and annotate it, and submit it for publication. I've been toying with the idea as it would be a valuable resource to English speakers.

Basically, the IF was NEVER unattended outside the palace grounds.  The "unattended" carriage rides would have in the Palace Park, and even then dozens of agents were posted all around at all times.

Outside of the Imperial Palaces, there would be both uniformed and plain clothes officers all around any location where the IF would be.  They would be under the eyes of Spiridovitch and his staff at all times, in addition to members of the local police force and the Cossack guards.

Before entering any building other than an Imperial residence, the entire place would be searched in advance by Spirdovitch's men and then guards posted to make sure no one entered.  
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: grandduchessella on April 28, 2006, 10:13:01 AM
There's the story about how NII took off running behind the carriage at Alice Battenberg & Andrew of Greece's wedding. Security guards were shed and they were in a panic as the Tsar ran throughout the streets of Darmstadt with no security detail.
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Ortino on April 28, 2006, 03:51:24 PM
Quote
The details are being saved for Bob's book on daily life in the AP

  *Sigh* Is it possible to get a ballpark estimate as to when this might be published or even released? I know everyone here is tightlipped about this book, but I personally would really appreciate a date, a year, SOMETHING.
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: JD on April 28, 2006, 09:34:40 PM
FA, I'd be fascinated by such a book. Probably the least enviable of many unenviable positions at the court (including that of Tsar). I bet he had a lot of sleepless nights.  

GD Ella, that reminds me of a couple other anecdotes that prompted this thread that I forget to include, both from Nicholas's diary entries on this site.  One talked about visiting the Hermitage as if it involved a walk down the street, when in reality I'd imagine that guards would have to be notified so they could empty out and close off the entire building (which would probably piss off a fair number of people!) while Nicholas saw his exhibits.  The other was a story about he and Alexei walking around a German town (I believe it was Hamburg) as if they were just a regular father and son - they had to stop because "people were beginning to recognize us"! Again I was pretty surprised. But of course in that scenario he was undoubtedly surrounded by many plainclothes guards, who were probably as familiar to him as his own shadow by that point.

Ortino, it doesn't seem worth getting upset about! This is only the second time I've heard of it, so I don't know how long you've been agonizing over it, but FA makes it sound as if Bob is still writing it. If that's the case, can you really trust any estimate anyway? Anyway, I'm officially looking forward to it now too. Just finished reading the intro to the Tsarkoe Selo 1910 book - Bob can write!
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: TheAce1918 on June 28, 2006, 10:20:22 AM
Hey!  Even royalty needs to be wicked every now and then ;D ;)  Especially the Romanovs
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Tsarina_Liz on July 01, 2006, 09:11:46 PM
Exactly how large was the Imperial Police force?
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: clockworkgirl21 on July 01, 2006, 10:17:26 PM
In a book Anna Anderson wrote, she told of how she remembered Olga and Tatiana running running into a store alone and later surprising the people who were supposed to be looking after them. It's really great fanfiction.  ;D  

This is the first I've heard of Bob writing a book. That'll definettly (excuse my horrible spelling) be added to my list!
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: TheAce1918 on July 09, 2006, 04:38:57 PM
I think the Imperial Police had to be at least the size of an army company.  Maybe more.  

Hey Clockwork...what was the title of that book?  :-/ ::)
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: clockworkgirl21 on August 05, 2006, 12:37:40 AM
Quote
Hey Clockwork...what was the title of that book?  :-/

The full title is Anastasia : the autobiography of H. I. H. the Grand duchess Anastasia Nicholaevna of Russia.
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Forum Admin on August 05, 2006, 09:50:25 AM
Spirdovitch's main security force was about 250 men. This would be supplemented by the local police forces and Okhrana section wherever the Imperial Family was located, so when in TS, outside the palace, the local TS police were also involved.  Ditto for Livadia/Yalta, etc.  Spiridovitch had direct authority over any local police force and the local Okhrana sections wherever the Emperor was present as related to his security.

Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: charley on June 08, 2007, 09:32:03 PM
I was wondering if anyone knows of any items the Grand Duchesses used that can still be purchased today, such as perfumes or toiletries or really anything. I read in Maria's diary that she loved a book, I think it was called "The Rosary", but it was not about praying, but a love story. (I may have the name wrong). I purchased it years ago online and it was a first edition. It was so neat to know I had a book printed at the same time that hers was printed. (Maybe the actual one she read. I know, wishful thinking.) I gave it as a gift to someone with equal love of the family and she was thrilled.
It would be great if there was an online store that you could purchase things that they loved and used. Any ideas?
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: clockworkgirl21 on June 08, 2007, 09:34:02 PM
I think they do have auctions every now and then, but those items are very expensive, as you would guess.

Personally, I think their things should be in museums.  :-\
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: charley on June 08, 2007, 09:57:14 PM
I am sorry, I think I didn't make myself quite clear. I have been told before that I should word things differently, but I do my best.
If, for instance, Maria loved and wore Lilly's of the Valley Perfume, can you buy a new bottle of the same perfume today? I know they played dominos and you can buy them today, but that really isn't to exciting. I would love to use some bath salts, knowing that in the past, they used the same ones. Of course it was over eighty years ago, but it would be great if we could come up with some items.
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Sarushka on June 09, 2007, 07:17:13 AM
If, for instance, Maria loved and wore Lilly's of the Valley Perfume, can you buy a new bottle of the same perfume today?

Yes! The girls used Coty brand perfume, and the company is still in business. Robert Massie's book will tell you which scent each of OTMA used.
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Forum Admin on June 09, 2007, 09:56:13 AM
They drank Coca Cola. Used Kodak film in their cameras, read National Geographic magazine, and had Steiff teddy bears.
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: charley on June 09, 2007, 10:23:20 AM
Yes! The girls used Coty brand perfume, and the company is still in business. Robert Massie's book will tell you which scent each of OTMA used.

I looked into that some, but I couldn't find the actual perfume still made today.

They drank Coca Cola. Used Kodak film in their cameras, read National Geographic magazine, and had Steiff teddy bears.

Yipes, I read Coca Cola was not completely cocaine free until 1929. I have a National Geographic from, I think, 1910. It is a special on Russia. Do they say in their diaries that they read this magazine or what they thought of it? It is so heart warming to me to be able to connect with them in this way. Thanks for the info. 
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Holly on June 09, 2007, 02:44:30 PM
I also looked into the perfumes but couldn't find the kinds they liked.
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: charley on June 09, 2007, 03:27:25 PM
I wonder if any of thier dress makers are still in business. I know they did buy from Harrod's of London, which is still in business. I may email or call them and see if they keep any records of purchases from any of the Imperial family's of Europe in thier archives. Wouldn't that be interesting?
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Olishka~ Pincess on June 09, 2007, 04:12:59 PM
I wonder if any of thier dress makers are still in business. I know they did buy from Harrod's of London, which is still in business. I may email or call them and see if they keep any records of purchases from any of the Imperial family's of Europe in thier archives. Wouldn't that be interesting?
Yes it sure would be interesting if you email them about that. ;)


Today the Coty compant is still in business it was founded in 1904. These are some company brands they own.
Cody

Coty Beauty

adidas
Aspen
Astor
Calgon
Celine Dion
David and Victoria Beckham
Esprit
Isabella Rossellini
Jovan
mary-kateandashley
Miss Sixty
Pierre Cardin
Rimmel
Shania Twain
Stetson
the healing garden
Darling By Kylie Minogue
 

Coty Prestige

Baby Phat
Calvin Klein
Cerruti
Chopard
Davidoff
Jennifer Lopez
Jette Joop
Jil Sander
JOOP!
Kenneth Cole
Lancaster
Marc Jacobs
Nautica
Nikos
Sarah Jessica Parker
Vera Wang
Vivienne Westwood
 


[
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Sarushka on June 09, 2007, 07:28:50 PM
I also looked into the perfumes but couldn't find the kinds they liked.

Nicholas and Alexandra pg 129:
"All four girls used Coty perfume. Olga preferred 'Rose The,' Tatiana favored 'Jasmin de Corse,' Anastasia stayed faithfully with 'Violette' and Marie, who tried many scents, always came back to 'Lilias.' "

Massie lists Lili Dehn as his source for that info.
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Olishka~ Pincess on June 09, 2007, 08:28:34 PM
What type of purfume brand in the company corty? My favorite scent was always violet but I love the Vera Wang purfume and Jennifer Lopez kind. I wonder if any of the grand duchesses used camra's, jewelery or clothes are on sale ???
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: charley on June 09, 2007, 09:53:02 PM
i]Nicholas and Alexandra[/i] pg 129:
"All four girls used Coty perfume. Olga preferred 'Rose The,' Tatiana favored 'Jasmin de Corse,' Anastasia stayed faithfully with 'Violette' and Marie, who tried many scents, always came back to 'Lilias.' "

It sounds like all the perfumes are made from flowers. I wonder if their perfumes simply smelled like the flower it was named after or more complex.
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Holly on June 10, 2007, 05:30:54 PM
The girls only used simple, clean flower essences; nothing musky or really strong. Alexandra didn't like them to use anything like that.
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: charley on June 10, 2007, 06:43:54 PM
I have emailed Harrod's of London late last night. I asked them if they keep an archive for the store. If they do, I will inquire if they have sales for the Russian Imperial family. I wish I had thought about this when I was in London and I could have spoken to them in person. I will also inquire about a catalogue from early 1900's.
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: RealAnastasia on June 11, 2007, 12:47:51 AM
The girls only used simple, clean flower essences; nothing musky or really strong. Alexandra didn't like them to use anything like that.

I don't think it was Alexandra's taste at all what forced girls to wear flower scents. These were the most widely wore essences at the time. Even grown up women would wear them. More complex parfums were made near to the 20'. I have catalogs of old great magazines (like "Harrods" but here , in Argentina were I live) from the times of OTMA, and flower scents (specially made from roses or Jazmine) were women favorites. "Coty" was the mot famous perfume mark and it still was until the 60's (of course, scents had changed by then!  ;)). I read somewhere in this Forums, that Coty had released an old perfume from OTMA's time "White Rose"...Maybe you may purchase it. It was not really expensive. Old perfume marks (that include scented soaps and bath foam among their products) as "Coty" and "Yardley" are still working, and you may wear today the same scents than OTMA, so long ago, specially the lavender ones.

I'll confess I'm pretty classic in my tastes (an old Victorian lady, I must say...Even if I have 35!  ;D ) and that I still wear flower essences rather than strong ones like musk, or Vera Wang ones. My favorite scent is Jazmine, and after it, Rose. I also likes Violet and Lavender, but also Citric scents and classical English eau de colognes to pour over me after a bath to feel really fresh. I think all this fits my personality, rather old fashiones, fresh and homely.

RealAnastasia.
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: charley on June 11, 2007, 08:50:37 AM
RealAnastasia, do you think you could look through your Harrod's catalogue and see if any of these scents are listed.
The Rose, Jasmin de Corse, Violette, or Lilias Quoted from Sarushka.
If so, could you post the picture and write up about it here?  I would love to see that.
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: RealAnastasia on June 11, 2007, 05:56:40 PM
Most of I have is clothes, hats, purses, fans and some scents but unfortunately not these of "Coty". I may scan the dresses, purses (and even underwear catalogs... ;) ) and so from 1898 to 1918 , since I recently opened my photobucket account. However, I know these were widely known at the time, since my own great-grandmama was a seller of a great magazine "Harrods Style", in Rosario's city, named "La Favorita", and she told me that these were the most sold scents to people of high class. She loved them too (and there were more flower scents than Rose Thé, Violet, Lilas or Jasmin de Corse), and she would wore them. How sad she never tought to save one of the little bottles for me to see... :P . She began to work in "La Favorita" exactly in 1916, when she was 17. She died in 1990 at 91.

RealAnastasia.
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: clockworkgirl21 on June 12, 2007, 03:13:10 AM
This looks promising. Could this be what Olga used? It was around in 1904. It looks like if you want to get ahold of items the Romanovs used, it's going to cost you a pretty penny.  :-\

(http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/3722/dfggggggggzg5.th.png) (http://img441.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dfggggggggzg5.png)

I believe after much searching, I've found Tatiana's.

(http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/3047/dffdfdfvh4.th.png) (http://img503.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dffdfdfvh4.png)
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Sarushka on June 12, 2007, 07:00:39 AM
This looks promising. Could this be what Olga used?

I'm not sure. Th name doesn't match. I forgot the accent mark last time: Rose Thé.


I think you've definitely found Tatiana's, though.
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Holly on June 12, 2007, 10:50:10 AM
RA, Alexandra's preference for light and clean perfumes on her girls more than likely did influence OTMA. I remember reading not very long ago.

I think Clockwork has found matches. I don't think the title of Olga's is a problem. 'Rose, The' and 'La Rose' are the same but just in different wording. I hope someone can find Lilas and Violette! Violet is my favorite and I really would like those perfumes.  ;D

Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Holly on June 12, 2007, 10:57:26 AM
I just found a Coty perfume called, "La Violette Pourpre". This perfume is more than likely the kind Anastasia liked. From what I've read, it was created in 1906 by Coty and smells terrific. It has a soft, woody, and floral smell all at once.
I also found a "Lilas", but it's from 1922.
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Forum Admin on June 12, 2007, 11:42:15 AM
Holly,

"La Rose" and "Rose The" are different things. "Rose The" translates to "Tea Rose", which is a different scent than Rose. 
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: RealAnastasia on June 12, 2007, 05:46:49 PM
Yes. "Tea Rose" is just another scent. Nothing to do with plain "Rose". You'll find several "Rose" scents at "Coty", for example "White Rose".

As for "Jazmin de Corse", I think the scent you found IS Tatiana's favorite perfume! Congratulations, Clockwork!

RealAnastasia.
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: grandduchess_42 on June 12, 2007, 06:16:17 PM
This looks promising. Could this be what Olga used? It was around in 1904. It looks like if you want to get ahold of items the Romanovs used, it's going to cost you a pretty penny.  :-\

(http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/3722/dfggggggggzg5.th.png) (http://img441.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dfggggggggzg5.png)

I believe after much searching, I've found Tatiana's.

(http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/3047/dffdfdfvh4.th.png) (http://img503.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dffdfdfvh4.png)

Amazing clock!
i wish i could have some of their sencts

amazing pictures!!
once again!

does anybody know what alexandra used?
and NICKY! his cologne... did he even ware cologne?
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Lolita on June 14, 2007, 03:24:50 PM
This topic is really interesting

I can't believe OTMA's perfumes are still out there

*Pump my fist in the air*

YESS!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: rosieposie on June 17, 2007, 07:04:10 AM
Dont get to excited I_LOVE.  It looks totally expensive.  :-[
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: TheAce1918 on June 19, 2007, 02:46:29 PM
I never knew that the IF had actually tried Coca Cola.  :o Kodak, sure, but Coke.  Wow.

In relation to the perfume bit, I was at this candle shop searching for a birthday present for a friend, and I came across three candles that ironically enough had lilac, tea rose, and violet scents.  The aroma emitted from those candle threw an image of OMA in my mind.  It was sad that they didn't have any Jasmine.  :(

But back to the main subject.  Why would anyone want to buy the personal belongings of someone who is deceased?  I'm not pointing blame, but it seems odd.  Imagine if someone wanted to buy your diaries, clothes, jewelry...and at a hefty price nontheless.

I'm with Cock, these items should be in museums or cathedrals.
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: JBenjamin82 on June 20, 2007, 02:45:12 AM
They drank Coca Cola. Used Kodak film in their cameras, read National Geographic magazine, and had Steiff teddy bears.

How do you know that they drank Coke? Oh, and thanks for the tidbits.  Very cool!  :)
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Mari on June 20, 2007, 04:56:38 AM
Ace...Curators of Museums (having been one among other things) are the FIRST to love to wear Vintage Clothes, perfumes etc...its wearing a part of History that's why you want to wear them!  ;D People that buy old guns or rare Books are collecting deceased people's things also...touching them handling them...etc. and it protects them from being thrown away. Look at what happened to Queen Victoria..her correspondence...see that thread for further information. :D
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Taksa on June 20, 2007, 01:28:08 PM
But back to the main subject.  Why would anyone want to buy the personal belongings of someone who is deceased?  I'm not pointing blame, but it seems odd.  Imagine if someone wanted to buy your diaries, clothes, jewelry...and at a hefty price nontheless.

I'm with Cock, these items should be in museums or cathedrals.

you know, I think that it is rather odd and just not correct to keep personal things of other people but I wish I had smth that had belonged to someone from IF or especcially to Felix. aww....
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: charley on June 20, 2007, 04:26:05 PM
But back to the main subject.  Why would anyone want to buy the personal belongings of someone who is deceased?  I'm not pointing blame, but it seems odd.  Imagine if someone wanted to buy your diaries, clothes, jewelry...and at a hefty price nontheless.

I'm with Cock, these items should be in museums or cathedrals.

you know, I think that it is rather odd and just not correct to keep personal things of other people but I wish I had smth that had belonged to someone from IF or especcially to Felix. aww....

 I would be flattered if someone thought so very highly of me, that they would want to own something that belonged to me. If you own an antique piece of furniture or other item, it is the same thing. I do think it is ridiculous, though, that someone bought the Monica Lewinski dress or something similiar to that, but this is different. To own something that belonged to the IF would make me feel connected to them. I guess it depends on your level of love and interest in the family. Some people say that items that belonged to the family should be in museums, but that is easy to say, when you do not personally own an item. I think that if someone gave one of these people some beautiful box that belonged to one of the Grand Duchesses as a gift, I don't believe that they would hand it over to a museum. When I saw all the personal items of the family at the N&A Exhibition, I saw so many things that I thought, "Oh, I wish I could have that." I think the IF would rather have individual people who trully loved the family to own their things instead of the Communists who got rid of their 300+ year old dynasty.
But this post is not about having things that belonged to dead people, but buying items that are the same that they had. (I.E. the perfumes that were listed on the post, of which I found very exciting.) For instance, I love hats. I have seen several hats that the girls wore that I would love to have. Are any of the hatmakers company's still in existence? Maybe even some dress patterns. I personally love the way they dressed when they were older.
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: JBenjamin82 on June 22, 2007, 09:53:32 PM
I was wondering if anyone knows of any items the Grand Duchesses used that can still be purchased today, such as perfumes or toiletries or really anything. I read in Maria's diary that she loved a book, I think it was called "The Rosary", but it was not about praying, but a love story. (I may have the name wrong). I purchased it years ago online and it was a first edition. It was so neat to know I had a book printed at the same time that hers was printed. (Maybe the actual one she read. I know, wishful thinking.) I gave it as a gift to someone with equal love of the family and she was thrilled.
It would be great if there was an online store that you could purchase things that they loved and used. Any ideas?

Actually, if anyone's interested, you can read The Rosary online by clicking here (http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/3659). 
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Sarushka on June 23, 2007, 08:11:54 AM

Actually, if anyone's interested, you can read The Rosary online by clicking here (http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/3659). 

WOW. Thanks so much for the link!  8)
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Forum Admin on June 23, 2007, 09:41:43 AM
They drank Coca Cola. Used Kodak film in their cameras, read National Geographic magazine, and had Steiff teddy bears.

How do you know that they drank Coke? Oh, and thanks for the tidbits.  Very cool!  :)

Palace receipts and records. Another thing that is easier to do, is to look for books they refer to having read in their letters or diaries.  Many of these old books are fairly easy to find and are not very expensive. Now, they may not be the very single book that they read and had on their shelf, which would be worth a lot of money, but you can own and read the exact same book they did for just a few dollars.  We have four of five such volumes here.
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Holly on June 23, 2007, 10:01:48 PM
Olga (and I'm sure TMA) read Lewis Carrol's Alice 's Adventures In Wonderland. If you've read that, you've already read a book that they did!  ;)
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Sarushka on June 24, 2007, 07:10:50 AM
Olga (and I'm sure TMA) read Lewis Carrol's Alice 's Adventures In Wonderland. If you've read that, you've already read a book that they did!  ;)

 8)
I didn't know that! Where'd you find that info?
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: JBenjamin82 on June 25, 2007, 03:08:36 AM

Actually, if anyone's interested, you can read The Rosary online by clicking here (http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/3659). 

WOW. Thanks so much for the link!  8)

No problem.  :) Have you read it at all yet?  If so, is it any good?
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: TheAce1918 on June 25, 2007, 11:34:46 AM
Palace receipts and records. Another thing that is easier to do, is to look for books they refer to having read in their letters or diaries.  Many of these old books are fairly easy to find and are not very expensive. Now, they may not be the very single book that they read and had on their shelf, which would be worth a lot of money, but you can own and read the exact same book they did for just a few dollars.  We have four of five such volumes here.

How and where on Earth were you able to obtain copies of reciepts?  That is amazing.
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Forum Admin on June 25, 2007, 03:48:59 PM
GARF. All the Palace records and reciepts are still there.
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Taksa on June 25, 2007, 05:00:41 PM
GARF. All the Palace records and reciepts are still there.
wooow.
what should a person do to be permitted to see the information from there?
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Forum Admin on June 25, 2007, 05:46:49 PM
Admission to GARF has been discussed before in the forum. Use the search function.

Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Pegschalet on June 25, 2007, 08:02:43 PM
I put GARF in the search function and guess what I got.  The last three replies on this thread.  Anyone have any idea where the info on GARF is?  Thank-you
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Forum Admin on June 25, 2007, 09:19:59 PM
I put GARF in the search function and guess what I got.  The last three replies on this thread.  Anyone have any idea where the info on GARF is?  Thank-you

Very odd. I just put "GARF" into the search engine for the forum and got about 150 different threads going back. Make sure you click all threads and several years.
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Lolita on July 04, 2007, 11:52:39 AM
Hey guys,I was searching for the  perfume and when I was on google,I came across a page about the founder of Coty and a list of perfume products

I saw one named La Violette pourpre and it came out in 1906

well,I haven't found a picture for it,and if this is Anastasia's perfume and the perfume has the name pourpre in it(the name pourpre is crimson in another language) then the perfume bottle might have a hint of pourpre in it

P.S if anyone doesn't know what the color Crimson is,it's a strong,bright,deep red color combined with some blue,resulting in a tiny degree of purple
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Olga Maria on August 14, 2009, 11:52:18 PM
I read that Alix loves Wagner while Nicholas satisfied himself listening to the Composite Battalion’s balalaika players and various operas, how about her children? What songs do they listen to and what musical pieces do they play on their piano (especially her because she's the most excellent on piano)? Hmmm…Any information?
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: nena on August 15, 2009, 07:29:53 PM
Playing balalaika, as well as for music, Russian folk, (classic 19th pieces od Russian musicians too) I assume.  I wonder what must they have listened in Kiev's Opera in 1911?

There is photo of her playing piano.

AP:

(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Olga/th_Olga_klavir.jpg) (http://s185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Olga/?action=view&current=Olga_klavir.jpg)
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on August 17, 2009, 06:41:42 PM
Interesting question indeed!! I think that Olga was very good at playing piano, thank you very much for the photo, is new for me :-)
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: s.v.markov on August 18, 2009, 02:22:57 PM
The Imperial Party was attending a performance of Rimsky-Korsakov's opera 'Tsar Sultan' at the Kiev Opera House in September 1911, when Piotr Stolypin was shot and later died.
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Amy on November 04, 2009, 05:50:50 PM
Hello all, I was just looking through the At Home with the Last Tsar and His Family catalog and noticed in the Checklist of Objects section no. 189: Twenty-two notes passed between the Grand Duchess Tatiana Nikolaevna and Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaevna at dinners during a cruise aboard the yacht Standart ...

I know that the family often sent notes to one another, and that this practice was normal for the age, but was unaware that this was possibly done at the dinner table. I'm trying to imagine HOW this would be accomplished and most of my imaginings are quite silly, if not absurd! Would they write these notes before hand? Or were they somehow scribbling notes on their laps while everyone, guests included, was at the table? Or could this entry possibly be an error? It's quite perplexing! Any thoughts or insight is greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: RHB on November 04, 2009, 06:26:03 PM
Hello all, I was just looking through the At Home with the Last Tsar and His Family catalog and noticed in the Checklist of Objects section no. 189: Twenty-two notes passed between the Grand Duchess Tatiana Nikolaevna and Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaevna at dinners during a cruise aboard the yacht Standart ...

Now that would be interesting if it's true... I can see it now: they're all dining having dinner all of the sudden (say Maria's between them) all of a sudden Olga nudges her with a whisper "Maria... MARIA pass this on to Tatiana" or the other way around with Tatiana to Olga "Maria... MARIA pass this on to Olga" and all of this done under the table lap between lap! It's actually kind of funny to think about which is why I've been laughing about it the whole time I've been writing this post! Of course if done secretly they'd would've had to have a "go between" that they could trust of course!
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Amy on November 05, 2009, 07:15:58 AM
I hadn't even considered a sister as a go between - I was thinking somehow a footman/server would be involved. But, yes, a sister makes total sense. At first glance this practice, if true, seems incongruous with the image of royalty, but then there are the stories of Alexei placing a strawberry in a female guest's shoe and Nicholas II and his siblings pelting each other with rolled up bread at the table when they were young. Thanks for responding!
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: CountessKate on November 05, 2009, 07:20:38 AM
I don't think it could have been via a sister - at least not during a formal dinner, and there would have been no need at an informal dinner.   I would have thought it would have been done via the numerous footmen (or nautical equivalents) in constant attendance, whom they would have known well and indeed instructed beforehand to watch out for notes to be passed.  A small notecase (Faberge, naturally) with attached pencil could be hidden inside a glove and notes scribbled on their laps when not actually eating.  As Grand Duchesses, they would have been stuck with the most senior and probably boring dining partners at formal dinners and would have needed a bit of light relief such as mischeviously passing messages to one another.
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Sarushka on November 05, 2009, 08:02:08 AM
A number of first-hand sources make note of the girls' overall immaturity, so I wouldn't be at all surprised if this note-passing was done the way Romanov_History_Buff proposes. Otherwise, passing and reading private notes openly would likely have been considered rude by other members of the dinner party - formal or otherwise. For that matter, I'm not sure how formal dinners were on board the Standart. My impression is that things were more relaxed on board the yacht.

As for the girls' dinner partners, Olga was regularly paired with Sablin, and Tatiana with Rodionov. Both girls were quite familiar with "their" officers. Olga even had a crush on Sablin in 1913. Sablin and Rodionov routinely joined the imperial family for picnics, tennis matches, and deck games during cruises. I'm not sure how indulgent the officers were toward the girls, but it doesn't strike me as impossible for them to have acted as go-betweens in the Big Pair's note-passing.

Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: po3a on November 08, 2009, 10:41:42 AM
I am a knitter and I am interested in knowing how much knitting went on with the Imperial family? Anyone know who taught Alix to knit?  Did Alix teach all of her daughters to knit? How often did they knit and what kind of things did they knit?
Thanks,
Po3a
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: tatianolishka_ on November 08, 2009, 11:50:23 AM
There are seemingly HUNDREDS of photographs depicting the girls knitting, sewing, or doing other needleworks. Alix refused to have the girls be idle and almost always had a needleworks project in hand. There is a lovely photo of a young Anastasia sitting on a piano bench in the Mauve Boudouir knitting a rather large blanket that indicates some level of skill.

Alix was likely taught by a maid at her father's court, or possibly her mother if she was taught very early on.
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on November 09, 2009, 10:26:29 AM
The photo of Anastasia knitting...
(http://inlinethumb48.webshots.com/41263/2457698540101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2457698540101857556qfOWop)
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: PAVLOV on November 09, 2009, 10:44:02 AM
What a marvellous photograph ! So clear, all the details.
Many members of Royal families in Europe were knitters, and did needlepoint.
King George Vl did needlepoint, and knitted. Queen Mary taught all her children. She did not believe in anyone wasting time by doing nothing.
I think Alexandra started a "knitting circle' when she first became Empress, but that this was sneered at by the members of the court. It was not a success.
I think knitting was a sort of Royal tradition.
I wonder what she was knitting, looks like a blanket for one of the royal pets !  Maybe she was just knitting for the sake of it.
       
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: po3a on November 09, 2009, 12:19:26 PM
I am really interested in what life was like for Alix when she first arrived in Russia.  We all know about all the big adjustments she had to make in her new life---I'm interested in the small day to day things she experienced.  I would love to learn more about the knitting circle she tried to start...ideas on where I could find that kind of Information?
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Amy on November 09, 2009, 02:27:18 PM
Thank you all for your wonderful contributions. I hadn't really considered what they wrote on let alone that it could have been easily concealed. After you mentioned this, CountessKate, I had an "a ha!" moment. The same with your impressions of the relaxed atmosphere on the Standart, Saruska.

In all it makes sense. While not an earth-shattering find, it is consistent with what is already known of the daughters.
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Olga Maria on November 09, 2009, 10:01:41 PM
A pity their works are not photographed up to this time.
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Sarushka on November 19, 2009, 05:53:59 PM
Do Apapa and Amama actually mean 'grandpa' and 'grandma' in Russian (or Danish, or anything else) or were those terms pet names invented and used exclusively by the imperial family?

To my knowledge only babushka and dedushka mean 'grandfather' and 'grandmother,' in Russian, but I'm not fluent enough to know whether or not Apapa and Amama might be equivalent to American colloquialisms like nana, poppa, gram, and gramps.
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Belochka on November 19, 2009, 06:01:31 PM
Do Apapa and Amama actually mean 'grandpa' and 'grandma' in Russian (or Danish, or anything else) or were those terms pet names invented and used exclusively by the imperial family?


Neither words are Russian.
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Ena on November 19, 2009, 10:02:45 PM
Do Apapa and Amama actually mean 'grandpa' and 'grandma' in Russian (or Danish, or anything else) or were those terms pet names invented and used exclusively by the imperial family?

To my knowledge only babushka and dedushka mean 'grandfather' and 'grandmother,' in Russian, but I'm not fluent enough to know whether or not Apapa and Amama might be equivalent to American colloquialisms like nana, poppa, gram, and gramps.
These terms come from King Christian IX and Queen Louise of Denmark.  I don't know if they are Danish in origin, but Constantine II of Greece acknowledged that out of tradition, his grandchildren refer to him and Queen Anne-Marie as "Apapa" and "Amama".
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Sarushka on November 19, 2009, 10:56:35 PM
Thanks for the info.

Does anyone know what name OTMAA used to address their grandmother, Marie Fedorovna? Babushka? Amama? Grandmama? I don't seem to have any letters from OTMAA to MF in my collection.
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: V_Corona on November 19, 2009, 11:30:01 PM
Dear Sarushka, a quote from an article written by David Chavchavadze:
"...My mother’s mother was Princess Marie of Greece and Denmark, daughter of King George I and Queen Olga of the Hellenes. I called her Amama, the name Danish children used for grandmothers....Amama and her husband Apapa produced two children, Nina (my mother) and Xenia, born in 1901 and 1903..."
"...My other grandmother, born a Russian bearing the untitled but noble name of Rodzyanko, became a princess by marrying Prince Alexander Chavchavadze, and when they were divorced she married another Russian prince, Peter Troubetzkoy. I was instructed to call this grandmother  “Babady,” obviously some child’s corruption of “babushka,” which means “grandmother,” not “kerchief” in Russian..."
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: nena on November 20, 2009, 09:10:28 AM
Thanks for the info.

Does anyone know what name OTMAA used to address their grandmother, Marie Fedorovna? Babushka? Amama? Grandmama? I don't seem to have any letters from OTMAA to MF in my collection.

In which form? Photos or in written> I have Aleksei's from July 10th 1914, and one of Olga we translated, do you remember?

(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Pisma%20i%20umetnost/13.jpg)

He called her 'Babushka'. :-D It is diminutive, as far as I know.

Мы сегодня были у бабушки въ саду и нашли много грибовъ. Ольга.

We were today in Grandma's garden and found many mushrooms. Olga.

So Olga also called her 'Babushka'.
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Naslednik Norvezhskiy on November 27, 2009, 06:57:35 PM
Do Apapa and Amama actually mean 'grandpa' and 'grandma' in Russian (or Danish, or anything else) or were those terms pet names invented and used exclusively by the imperial family?

To my knowledge only babushka and dedushka mean 'grandfather' and 'grandmother,' in Russian, but I'm not fluent enough to know whether or not Apapa and Amama might be equivalent to American colloquialisms like nana, poppa, gram, and gramps.
These terms come from King Christian IX and Queen Louise of Denmark.  I don't know if they are Danish in origin, but Constantine II of Greece acknowledged that out of tradition, his grandchildren refer to him and Queen Anne-Marie as "Apapa" and "Amama".
As a a Norwegian with a fairly good knowledge of the closely related Danish language, I can say that Apapa and Amama are not normal Danish terms for grandfather and grandmother. The usual Danish terms are farfar (paternal grandfather), farmor (paternal grandmother), morfar (maternal grandfather) and mormor (maternal grandmother). Apapa and Amama are children's renderings of papa and mama, the not very usual forms for "dad" and "mom", as far as I can tell in Denmark mostly limited to the higher classes (upper bourgeoisie and aristocracy), as they are foreign, derived from German (Papa and Mama) and ultimately from French (papa and maman). In TV Interviews, the present Queen Margrethe refers to her father Frederik IX as far, father/dad, and her mother Queen Ingrid as mor, mother/mom, like most Danes.

Apapa and Amama are what Christian IX and Queen Louise's children called their parents; and their children (i.e. the grandchildren) continued the usage - for their grandparents.
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: kmerov on November 29, 2009, 03:44:33 PM
The children of Christian IX and Queen Louise called Louises parents, Landgrave Wilhelm of Hesse-Cassel and Charlotte of Denmark for apapa and amama, so it goes back many generations. Christian IX's mother was grossmama.
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Naslednik Norvezhskiy on November 29, 2009, 04:00:11 PM
The children of Christian IX and Queen Louise called Louises parents, Landgrave Wilhelm of Hesse-Cassel and Charlotte of Denmark for apapa and amama, so it goes back many generations. Christian IX's mother was grossmama.
So the children of Christian and Louise didn't call their own parents this, but their maternal grandparents? If so, maybe it comes from French grand-papa and grand-maman?
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: abbigail on December 29, 2009, 10:13:42 AM
Does anybody know any specific piano pieces the girls might have played? Referenced to in their letters?
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Sarushka on December 29, 2009, 12:07:28 PM
The only song I recall off the top of my head is "Colorito." It's mentioned in Olga's diary as well as Anna Vyrubova's memoirs.

You may find more information on these threads:

What kind of music did the IF listen to? (http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=5593.0)
The Imperial Family and Their Music (http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=364.0)
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Naslednik Norvezhskiy on February 09, 2010, 02:41:14 PM
I am watching "The Year 2009 with the Danish Royal family" on TV and hearing Queen Margrethe describe how the grandchildren affectionately call the Prince Consort grandpapa (and make pancakes in the fire place in his office!) in her speech to him at his 75th birthday I am sure that is the origin.
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: kmerov on February 12, 2010, 05:48:07 PM
Yes most likely it comes from French.

In a letter GDss Xenia referred to Empress Maria Alexandrovna, her paternal grandmother, as An-mama, so maybe they called Alexander II An-papa aswell?
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: TimM on April 15, 2010, 10:56:36 AM
I guess if they were living now, they'd be text messaging each other.
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Michael HR on April 15, 2010, 11:31:12 AM
I remember when I was 8 I wrote a note to my Father, he was an naval officer and always very formal. I recall him saying that he did not accept memo's from his 8 year old son and was quite offended. Never did that again...

Even in todays Royal family notes and memos are common place.. Not sure why needed at the dinner table mind you?
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: clockworkgirl21 on April 20, 2010, 02:20:53 AM
Quote
Not sure why needed at the dinner table mind you?

Probably just because it's fun. Even if it's innocent chatter you're passing along that could be easily said aloud, it's much more fun for a child to be secretive.
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: MademoiselleAndrea on December 11, 2010, 10:57:08 AM
How did royals send mail? Certainly not by regular post... I'm especially wondering how NAOTMAA sent letters from Tobolsk.  ???
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Forum Admin on December 11, 2010, 11:27:03 AM
Of course the IF sent letters. Before the Revolution, they simply handed the mail to servants, the Palaces had a special "franking" stamp, showing it was Imperial Post and exempt from stamps. In Tobolsk, they had money which was used to buy stamps.
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: MademoiselleAndrea on December 11, 2010, 12:13:51 PM
Oh, so they actually sent letters by "regular" post in Tobolsk. But how would they address a letter to Xenia's family in Livadia, or to Marie Feodrovna?
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Sarushka on December 11, 2010, 03:01:56 PM
But how would they address a letter to Xenia's family in Livadia, or to Marie Feodrovna?

From Pered Rasstrelom (http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/books.html?sku=28):

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/PeredRasstrelom/th_PR118-119.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/PeredRasstrelom/?action=view&current=PR118-119.jpg)

Under "No.1", before the text of the letter begins it says,

Written on the envelope:
Crimea. Ai-Todor
to Grand Duchess Ksenia Aleksandrovna


There's more information underneath that but I can't translate it precisely without a dictionary -- I presume it has to do with the postal process and passing through censors.
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: rudy3 on December 11, 2010, 03:36:37 PM
The information underneath:

Post stamp 9.10.17

on the other side of the envelope: Opened by War censor. War censor No.118. 29 Oct 1917 Tobolsk


Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: MademoiselleAndrea on December 11, 2010, 06:07:46 PM
Ah, thanks a lot Sarushka!  :)
War censors? Would they cross out things, etc?  ???
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: historyfan on December 11, 2010, 10:44:35 PM
Exactly.  They would black out or otherwise obliterate anything they didn't want seen.  Just what that was depended on a lot.  Most often the letter would get sent on no matter how much had been removed.
Title: Photocameras used in their days
Post by: sunbeam on March 10, 2013, 10:25:38 AM
We know a lot of pictures were taken of the IF, also by themselves. Does anyone know more about the type or brand of photocameras that were used in their days? So roughly between the 1880s and 1918?
I might use this bit of info for a poem :) Thanks!
Title: Re: Photocameras used in their days
Post by: Forum Admin on March 10, 2013, 10:43:16 AM
We know that the Imperial Family had Kodak brand cameras. Nicholas was quite a fan, and Alexei had his own Kodak.
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Jen_94 on March 10, 2013, 02:07:31 PM
They each had their own photo albums too, didn't they? The IF took photos of each other quite a bit.
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: AnastasiaTheImp on May 23, 2013, 06:24:21 PM
I guess I'm more looking for information that asking a single question. If the information is already posted in a reply, please direct me to the thread.
I know OTMAA were referred to with diminutive forms of their given names (ex: Tanya, Masha, Nastya) within their family and that there are several diminutive forms of Olga, Tatiana, Maria, Anastasia, and Alexei.
Which diminutive form did Alix use for her children (or did she use the English version of their name)? What about Nicholas? Or OTMAA to each other?
Were there forms that they generally didn't use?
Also, is there a difference in meaning between the -sha and -shka endings? (Masha vs Mashka) Is one more endearing?
Any info you have is appreciated. :)
I love names and the meanings behind them.
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Sarushka on May 23, 2013, 08:52:56 PM
Quote
I know OTMAA were referred to with diminutive forms of their given names (ex: Tanya, Masha, Nastya) within their family
I'm not so sure, actually. With the exception of Maria and Anastasia, the written instances of OTMAA's diminutives are actually quite few.

What they used in daily speech is possibly another matter. I do know that at least one of the courtiers' memoirs points out that Maria was called "Masha" by her sisters, which implies that they did not use other diminutives amongst themselves.


Quote
Which diminutive form did Alix use for her children
I'm aware of seven letters from the empress to Olga in which she uses "Olenka," one to Tatiana using "Tatianochka," and two to Maria using "Mashenka." These were all written between 1909 and 1910, and I've never seen those forms used elsewhere in the IF's correspondence or diaries. I don't recall the empress ever using any diminutives for Anastasia. For Aleksei she used English nicknames like "Sunbeam" and "Baby."


Quote
Were there forms that they generally didn't use?
I've never seen a single instance of "Olya," "Olishka," or "Tanya" in the imperial family's letters or diaries. Pretty sure I've never seen "Alyosha" either. The only place I see those diminutives are on fansites.


Quote
What about Nicholas?
Anastasia routinely signed her wartime letters to the tsar as "Nastasya," "Nastanka," and "Nastaska." However, I don't believe I've ever seen a written instance of the tsar using a traditional Russian diminutive to address or refer to any of his children.


Quote
Or OTMAA to each other?
The only usage of diminutives I've seen between the siblings are letters to and from Maria that use "Mashka" or "Masha." In letters they used their full given names. In their diaries they most often use initials to indicate each other, although Olga often refers to Anastasia as "Schvybs."


Quote
Also, is there a difference in meaning between the -sha and -shka endings? (Masha vs Mashka) Is one more endearing?
My understanding is that the longer the nickname, the more intimate its use becomes. So from least to most endearing: Masha, Mashka, Mashenka.
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: AnastasiaTheImp on May 23, 2013, 09:00:08 PM
You are AMAZING! I had been referring to OTMA by their diminutives on my tumblr site (Tanya is quicker to type than Tatiana), but I want to be historically accurate more that I want to be quick. Thank you so much for the info.
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: nena on May 24, 2013, 04:30:40 AM
Tsar Nicholas called/referred to Aleksei in his diaries/letters as 'Alyosha'. Am I correct? I am off any my Romanov book, so I can't confirm that.


P.S. I have gained the access to the internet, and I am looking trough NII's diaries for 'Alyosha'. No results so far.
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Sarushka on May 24, 2013, 07:57:43 AM
Tsar Nicholas called/referred to Aleksei in his diaries/letters as 'Alyosha'. Am I correct?

I've not seen that, but I certainly haven't read all of NII's diaries yet. However, I'm 99% sure "Alyosha" doesn't appear in his wartime correspondence with the empress.
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Jen_94 on May 24, 2013, 12:36:08 PM
Tsar Nicholas called/referred to Aleksei in his diaries/letters as 'Alyosha'. Am I correct? I am off any my Romanov book, so I can't confirm that.


P.S. I have gained the access to the internet, and I am looking trough NII's diaries for 'Alyosha'. No results so far.

I'm reading some letters now and all I've seen is:
Aleksey
Baby

No sign of Alyosha..... I'll keep looking in the diaries and letters in case.
Title: The possibility of hair?
Post by: EmHarms on August 26, 2013, 05:32:10 PM
Guys, I apologize if this has been discussed. I searched and searched & didn't see this specific topic, so if I overlooked it, please forgive me.

I know it would be an INCREDIBLE longshot, but, just for the sake of "what if"....

Does anyone know of hairbrushes or locks of hair preserved from the Grand Duchesses that might, slim chance thought it may be, possibly contain enough DNA to test against the remains to determine who's who?  Maybe somehow even preserved in their garments, that a forensic team might investigate?
Title: Re: The possibility of hair?
Post by: edubs31 on August 26, 2013, 08:01:19 PM
I've only heard of the lock of hair taken from Nicholas when he was a small child and preserved by his mother. Otherwise the only reference to using hair for DNA testing, as relating to the Romanovs, was that taken from the head of Anna Anderson. Helping to debunk the claim that she was the real Anastasia Nikolaevna.

Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Kalafrana on August 27, 2013, 12:01:34 PM
DNA testing with hair is problematic, because hair which is kept for any length of time easily becomes contaminated. The consequence is not false positives but unusable sequences.

Ann
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: EmHarms on August 27, 2013, 01:13:46 PM
DNA testing with hair is problematic, because hair which is kept for any length of time easily becomes contaminated. The consequence is not false positives but unusable sequences.

Ann

I've always heard that, Kalafrana. I just wonder if someone would be able to undertake the task & just see what they could come up with.  A hair with part of the follicle still attached.  I know it would be a huge stretch.
Title: Information for an Assessment
Post by: GDSophie on May 11, 2016, 03:18:49 PM
Hello! I'm new to this forum, only officially talking on threads since last week, and I need some help!

It's like the subject title says: I have been tasked by my history teacher in 6th form (another form of school in the UK) to write about any point of history. Luck has been bestowed on me and I picked out 'The Romanovs' from a hat! (Thank you, luck!)

After asking my teacher for what he specifically wants, he told me I need to write about:

1. Each member of the family-anecdotes, quotes from people who personally knew the family etc (it is about the Romanovs generally after all!)

2. Imprisonment.

3. Execution.

4. Claimants (not just Anna Anderson).

5. Bodies from the 1991 search.

6. Bodies from the 2007 search.

7. Conclusion.

I have already written about Alexandra and Nicholas, but it's the rest of it I'm confused about. I have been 'stalking' this forum for months and (no offence) but the arguments and always going off topic (usually about AA) has confused me quiet a bit.

I would appreciate any help given. I want to ace this assessment, being the growing Romanov nerd I am! :)

To not confuse me and my teacher, I would like to talk about Olga firstly then Tatiana, then Maria, Anastasia and then Alexei. Then Imprisonment followed by execution, claimants and the findings of the bodies from both years.

I can show snippets of the draft paper as I write (can't show my final piece until it's done!) to show you all how it's going.

Thank you!

~Sophie
Title: Re: Information for an Assessment
Post by: Forum Admin on May 11, 2016, 07:23:38 PM
All of your information can be found by searching this Forum and by going to the Main APTM page alexanderpalace.org/palace.
Title: 1913 Tercentenary Question.
Post by: Romanov_Fan19 on June 17, 2016, 02:37:27 PM
Which Grand Dukes  escorted The Tsars  Daughters 
Title: Re: 1913 Tercentenary Question.
Post by: edubs31 on June 17, 2016, 09:48:22 PM
Try looking at some videos online showing the family's procession. You get a pretty good look at the Tsar, Empress and OTMA. If memory serves I feel like Anastasia was being escorted by Dmitri Pavlovich but I could be wrong. I couldn't seem to find any clear footage doing a quick YouTube search of my own but I'm pretty certain its available...perhaps video links on here as well.
Title: Re: 1913 Tercentenary Question.
Post by: Ally Kumari on June 18, 2016, 01:28:15 AM
Which Grand Dukes  escorted The Tsars  Daughters 

Olga by Mikhail Alexandrovich, Tatiana by Kyril Vladimirovich, Maria by Boris Vladimirovich, Anastasia by Dmitri Pavlovich. You can see them in processsion side by side in this video if you skip to 2:40. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyv4TAoevdc
Title: Re: 1913 Tercentenary Question.
Post by: Romanov_Fan19 on June 18, 2016, 12:52:59 PM
Thanks  everyone
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Rodney_G. on June 19, 2016, 05:31:52 PM
Ally is quite right. And that video, though brief, is well worth seeing. Also, OTMA's escorts are by proximity of relation  to the Emperor  after his uncles, as was customary in formal occasions of the monarchy. Thus: Olga/Mikhail (Nicholas' brother); Tatiana/Kyril V.(oldest uncle's eldest son; Maria/ Boris V. , second Vladimirovich  after Kyril V.;and Anastasia/ Dmitry Pavlovich, youngest uncle's only son.

I'm not sure if Andrei Vladimirovich was younger than Dimitry. I suspect so or there may have been some other reason for him not escorting.
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: Kalafrana on June 20, 2016, 07:51:46 AM
Andrei Vladimirovich was born in 1879, Dimitri in 1891. On the basis of seniority, Andrei would be the obvious person, but perhaps his liaison with Nicholas's former mistress, Mathilde Kschessinska ruled him out. That said, Boris's liaisons were notorious, and Nicholas had exiled both Mikhail and Kirill for unsuitable marriages.

Ann
Title: Re: Everyday life of NAOTMAA - your quick questions
Post by: edubs31 on June 27, 2016, 02:23:27 PM
I always get a kick out of wondering what Dmitri Pavlovich's mood must have been escorting around Anastasia. I'm guessing she was excited to be led around by her dashing cousin. He on the other hand I'm not so sure..."Ugh I get stuck with this little brat?" comes to mind, lol. Perhaps he was flattered and grateful to even get to take part however, especially given his lower standing in the family as a young Grand Duke not yet 22-years of age.

No chance Olga would have been paired with him. Even had the order and pairings been arbitrary I'm quite certain Alexandra would not have permitted the young man of "questionable character" to walk arm in arm with her eldest daughter. Wasn't it around this time Alix shot down any possibility of Dmitri as a marriage prospect for Olga?

Title: Baby Name Announcements?
Post by: GDSophie on April 25, 2018, 08:32:16 PM
The recent birth of the Prince and how they announce the name has got me thinking on how the Romanovs, especially the Tsar, announced the name of their children.

I know they announce the birth with a number of cannon shots from Peter and Paul Fortress depending on the gender, but how did they inform the public of the baby name before it hit the newspapers?
Title: Re: Baby Name Announcements?
Post by: TimM on April 26, 2018, 11:31:51 AM
That's a good question.  No such thing as radio or television back then.
Title: Re: Baby Name Announcements?
Post by: Превед on April 28, 2018, 07:07:41 AM
I know they announce the birth with a number of cannon shots from Peter and Paul Fortress depending on the gender, but how did they inform the public of the baby name before it hit the newspapers?

The Ministry of the Imperial Court probably issued some proclamation, but perhaps not untill the actual baptism? It's unlikely there was much demand to know before it was in the papers. The choice of names was much more limited than in modern, Western monarchies, so you could quite safely bet that the newborn royal would be called Alexander, Nikolay, Pavel, Maria, Alexandra or Olga.
Title: Re: Baby Name Announcements?
Post by: Превед on April 29, 2018, 03:49:38 PM
I'm looking into Greg King's "The Court of the Last Tsar" regarding royal births and he describes the ceremonies surrounding Alexey Nikolayevich's birth and baptism as an example: No mention is made of a gun salute at the birth; only salutes of 301 shots from Kronstadt and the Fortress of Saints Peter and Paul at the end of the baptism (11 days after the birth). He doesn't say anything about the announcement of the name, but it sounds like it must have been known straight at the birth, as the newborn infant immediately was awarded various imperial orders, enrolled in the Imperial Guards, appointed Ataman of all Cossacks and it was announced that all soldiers in the Imperial Army fighting in the ongoing war against Japan would be named honorary godfathers. It's hard to imagine these honorary, but official acts being performed if the subject of them had no name or the soldiers didn't know what name they sponsored as godfathers.
Title: Re: Baby Name Announcements?
Post by: Превед on April 29, 2018, 04:18:52 PM
I see that my local provincial Norwegian newspaper announced the birth of the heir on the day following the birth (13th of August 1904), but did not name him. The paper noted that his birth would be welcomed by everyone, except those who wished for revolution! and hoped that NII would keep his promise of granting Russia a constitution when a male heir was born.

The name ("prins Alexius"!) was mentioned (in an exposition of the new heir's genealogy) in this Norwegian paper 13 days later, on the 26th of August, a week before the baptism on the 3rd of September.  (Greg King is mistaken about the baptism being 11 days after the birth, he has probably mixed up Old and New Style.)
Title: Re: Baby Name Announcements?
Post by: Превед on April 29, 2018, 04:31:10 PM
From Alexey Nikolayevich's Russian Wikipedia article:

Из телеграммы Барона Фредрикса
Петербург 30 июля. Её Величество Государыня Императрица Александра Федоровна благополучно разрешилась от бремени Сыном, наследником-Цесаревичем и Великим Князем, нареченным при святой молитве Алексеем, 30 июля сего года, в 1 час 15 мин. пополудни в Петергофе.
Подписал: Министр Императорского Двора генерал-адъютант барон Фредерикс.

=
From a telegramm by Baron Freedericksz
Petersburg, 30 July [OS]. Her Majesty Sovereign Empress Alexandra Fyodorovna was safely delivered of the burden of a son, the Heir-Tsesarevich and Grand Duke, named by? / at? holy prayer Alexey, on July 30 this year, at 1:15. PM in Peterhof.
Signed: Minister of the Imperial Court General-Adjutant Baron Freedericksz.

So yes, the name was known from the birth. The telegramm was probably sent to different authorities and soon spread to the media.
Title: Re: Baby Name Announcements?
Post by: Превед on April 29, 2018, 04:54:39 PM
BTW I see that several other Norwegian provincial papers called the newborn heir "storfyrste Alexis" already on the 13th of August.