Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about Russian History => Imperial Succession and the Throne => Topic started by: bookworm8571 on June 30, 2004, 02:20:45 PM

Title: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: bookworm8571 on June 30, 2004, 02:20:45 PM
I've read 10-year-old interviews with Cyril's granddaughter and she always sounds quite serious about her role as supposed "heir" to the throne. Her son George would be 22 or 23, right? What has he been doing these past years? Where does he work? How has he been educated? Is Maria hunting around for some German "princess" to marry him off to so he can make an "equal" marriage? I can't imagine many people taking the succession to the throne seriously in this day and age. Has anyone read an interview with George?

And do Maria and her mother have any Spanish blood? They're both so dark they look far more Latin than Russian.
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: Antonio_P.Caballer on June 30, 2004, 07:06:23 PM
Maria has no spanish blood. She said once that she considered herself a Russian ( she never lived in that country though). It´s true that she seems quite latin. I think it´s due to her mother, Princess Leonida Bagration-Mukhransky´s family. The Bagration- Mukhranskys were, if i remember well, princes from Georgia. Georgians are quite similar in appearance to latins, usually short, black haired and so on...
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: Olga on July 01, 2004, 04:48:13 AM
Georgi Mihkailovich is 23. Has anybody taken their claim to the throne seriously?
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: Nick_Nicholson on July 01, 2004, 08:40:30 AM
A great many people take their claim very seriously indeed.  Maria Vladimirovna is recognized by the Patriarch as the "Head of the Former Imperial Family" and both Yeltsin and Putin have recieved and acknowledged her.

There are several reasons that people object to her claim;

1. The fact that her great-Grandmother Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna the Elder was a Lutheran at the time of her son Kirill's birth. The heir to the throne must, by law, be born of an Orthodox mother.  Maria Pavlovna converted to Othodoxy late, just so that her son would be eligible to take the Throne. It has been written that Nicholas and the Dowager Empress were clear that Kirill was not eligible for the throne.  After the assassination, the Dowager Empress refused to recognize Kirill's claim for this reason.

2. That Kirill married his first cousin, Victoria Melita, an act prohibited by the Orthodox Church. This is moot, because as Head of the Church, Nicholas II recognized this marriage, so it should be ignored.

3. That Maria's father Grand Duke Vladimir contracted a marriage of unequal birth with Princess Leonida Bagration-Moukhranskaya, a member of the formal Royal family of Georgia.  Before the revolution, a marriage contracted with a Bagration would have been considered morganatic because of the absorbtion of Georgia into the Russian Empire.  After the revolution, however, the Royal Family of Georgia has the same status as any deposed royal family: France, Russia, etc.
Also, if you believe that GD Vladimir was heir to "all Imperial Rights and Privileges" than if he says that a Bagration is of Royal status, than a Bagration IS of Royal status.

4. That Georgii Mikhailovitch is a Hohenzollern, and not a Romanov.  Georgii's father, a Royal Prince of the House of Prussia, converted to Russian Orthodoxy and took the name of Mikhail.  He was accepted into the House of Romanov, and signed papers renouncing his and his son's rights to Hohenzollern names, titles, and privileges.  You have to ignore that one too.

That's the basic rundown.  What it really comes down to is that if you adhere strictly to the rules as they existed before the revolution, there is not one living Romanov descendant who has a faultless claim to the throne.  The oldest living Male in the senior branch of the family is Prince Nicholas Romanov, who only has daughters.  In terms of the most royal blood, it is without doubt Maria Vladimirovna, who is related to the British Royal family, the House of Mecklenburg-Schwerin, the Royal House of Georgia, and the Russian Imperial House.

So, in summation, its really up for grabs.  If you really want someone on the throne of Russia, my money's on Maria-she's the only member of the family who wants it, and she has worked very hard indeed to establish herself as "Curatrix of the Throne."  You have to admire her sense of duty, if not her extreme laquered hairdo.

Best,

Nick
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: kensue on July 01, 2004, 11:14:09 AM
I'm quoting from the book 'The Flight of the Romanovs'.

"Maria Vladimirovna keeps today the title of Head of the Imperial House, although her octotgenarian mother Leonida seems more interested in politics than she.  For forty-four years, Leonida  worked hand in hand with her husband.  with Vladimir's death, she is the mastermind and major engine of the Romanov restoration movement and, during 1991-1995, made twenty-six trips to Russia to push her cause."

"In the eyes of the pro-Vladimirovichi, he (George) will sooner or later become head of the House of Romanov.  After the collapse of the Soviet Union, George was slated to enter the Admiral Naklhimov Naval Cadet School in St. Petersburg. But the russian military have told Leonida that the morale in all Russian cadet schools is now very low."  They thought it would be better to go to military school in Spain and try Russia later.  I think that Maria Vladimirovna and her son have been living in Paris for many years.
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: Belochka on July 02, 2004, 12:43:57 AM
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my money's on Maria-she's the only member of the family who wants it, and she has worked very hard indeed to establish herself as "Curatrix of the Throne."  You have to admire her sense of duty, if not her extreme laquered hairdo.


Maria can place herself in the public eye as much as she likes, even with a new coiffure. What should be considered is whether Russia will ever vote in favor of returning to an autocratic State. After tasting democracy for over a decade I doubt that the people would ever choose this form of government for themselves.

As to which faction is the one which should step forward and try and make a claim for Russia? IMHO it really is all fanciful speculation and essentially has become all rather academic today.
;)


Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: nerdycool on July 02, 2004, 01:42:52 AM
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What should be considered is whether Russia will ever vote in favor of returning to an autocratic State. After tasting democracy for over a decade I doubt that the people would ever choose this form of government for themselves.

I think it's possible that Russian citizens could vote for the return of an autocratic state. There is still a lot of Soviet sentiment in Russia just because that's all people knew for 70+ years and obviously the new Russia is still struggling. If one looks at just the basics of what Communism was in the Soviet Union and compare it to the monarchy, they are very similar. Heck, they could all vote to re-instate the Soviet Union! But anyway, I'm a firm believer that if Russia wanted the monarchy back, it wouldn't be an autocracy, nor should it be. A democratic form would be more appropriate, and if done right, more effective. But Russia is slowly making good strides in their government now... still have a long way to go, but they're on their way. Whatever they do, I'm sure they'll work it out sooner or later.
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: nerdycool on July 02, 2004, 01:50:42 AM
While replying, I totally forgot to ask my question. If Georgii's father renounced all titles, names, rights, and privileges of the House of Hohenzollern for himself and Georgii, then why does he go by Grand Duke Georgii Mikhailovitch Hohenzollern-Romanov? If he's not to use it, then shouldn't the Hohenzollern be dropped from his name?
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: Olga on July 14, 2004, 04:08:24 AM
Having more names makes one sound more important.

Do Maria Vladimirovna and Georgi Mikhailovich speak Russian/do other Russian type things?
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: Charles on July 14, 2004, 09:14:11 AM
Actually Maria Vladimirovna speaks very good Russian (with little or no accent).  Her mother speaks excellent as well.  Vladimir Kirillovich spoke Russian with a thick French accent.  Not sure about Georgii Mikhailovich.

What other "Russian type things" do you mean?
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: Annie on July 14, 2004, 12:39:45 PM
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2. That Kirill married his first cousin, Victoria Melita, an act prohibited by the Orthodox Church. This is moot, because as Head of the Church, Nicholas II recognized this marriage, so it should be ignored.


But Victoria Melita ("Ducky") was also a divorcee', having left Alexandra's brother, Ernie. Is that not a no-no too?
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: LisaDavidson on July 15, 2004, 12:20:47 AM
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But Victoria Melita ("Ducky") was also a divorcee', having left Alexandra's brother, Ernie. Is that not a no-no too?


There are no-nos and then there are no-nos. Certainly being a divorcee made Ducky less socially acceptable, but that's as far as it went in Romanov Russia. Orthodoxy did not exclude divorcees. Being divorced made no difference as to whether Ducky's children had succession rights or not.

The only argument against Victoria Melita that had any weight was the lack of the Tsar's approval for her marriage to Kiril. Once this approval was granted - and it was - she was fully accepted into the dynasty and her children had succession rights.
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: Annie on July 15, 2004, 09:01:08 AM
But going by the old laws, the line should have been excluded with Maria, since she is a woman. If this is not the case, and women are included, then go back and get Xenia, Tsar's sister, married to a Grand Duke, with 6 sons. In the British line of succession she would have been next anyway, after her brothers and their children were gone. There are a lot of people closer and more valid than any of Kyril's line!
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: Robert_Hall on July 17, 2004, 04:07:45 AM
I have been trying to find proper pictures of MV & her family for my collection. Not magazine tear-outs, but pictures for my albums. Any sources, or ideas?
Cheers,
Robert
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: LisaDavidson on July 18, 2004, 04:07:17 PM
Annie: women were not excluded from the succession. The difficulty comes from which female would succeed once the male agnates became extinct, as they arguably did in 1989 with the death of Prince Vasili.
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: Alixz on August 18, 2005, 03:29:07 PM
There is a great explanation of the Pauline and Saelic laws of succession in Queen Victoria's Descendants by Marlene A. Eilers.

It is in the chapter devoted to Prince Alfred.  This is through Victoria Melita and Kyrill, of course.

According to Ms. Eilers,  GD Marie and her son GD George Mikhailoich are indeed eligible and next in line.
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: dobrinin on September 15, 2005, 06:56:29 AM
Maria Vladimirovna announced 08.09.05 that she and whole dynasty are moving to Russia from Madrid, where they have been living. Cecarevich Georgi Mikhailovich is now learning in the Military Academy of the Russian Head Staff (Generalnaja Shtaba). Georgi Mikhailovich will be the next Csar of Russia, of course without any political power. President Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin announced in the beginning of september not to candide for third periode at 2008, becouse at that time there is no more such a institution in Russia as presidency. Vladimir Vladimirovich  is going to serve Imperial Russia forward as prime minister.  :o :o :o
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: Tatia on September 18, 2005, 08:54:43 AM
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Maria Vladimirovna announced 08.09.05 that she and whole dynasty are moving to Russia from Madrid, where they have been living. Cecarevich Georgi Mikhailovich is now learning in the Military Academy of the Russian Head Staff (Generalnaja Shtaba). Georgi Mikhailovich will be the next Csar of Russia, of course without any political power. President Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin announced in the beginning of september not to candide for third periode at 2008, becouse at that time there is no more such a institution in Russia as presidency. Vladimir Vladimirovich  is going to serve Imperial Russia forward as prime minister.  :o :o :o

:o indeed!
Where did you get this information?
I just hope it's not true...
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: David_Pritchard on September 18, 2005, 02:02:54 PM
I spent a hour last night and an hour the night before reading the political sections of a number of Russian news services. No mention or innuendo that Vladimir Putin was going to become the Prime Minister of the Russian Empire. Surely Russia changing its form of government would be front page news, not only in Russia but in every other country. This news about the new Russian Empire must be fantasy or rumour.

David
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: Robert_Hall on September 18, 2005, 02:33:29 PM
Odd. I mentioned this bit of "news" this morning to my friend in Saint Petersburg. He had not heard of it either.
Without a source, I would tend to dis-believe it myself.
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: lexi4 on September 18, 2005, 09:46:49 PM
Tatia,
What are your sources? I think this would be big news if it were true and we would have heard it. But no one has. It would be helpful if you could give a a link or reference so we can check this out.
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: Tatia on September 19, 2005, 08:53:57 AM
I quoted dobrinin, and I was also asking where he got that information :)
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: Lucien on September 19, 2005, 07:05:30 PM
Maybe dobrinin referred to this article

http://www.courrierinternational.com/article.asp?obj_id=54976&provenance=europe&bloc=15

I just saw that headline,but have not subscribed so can't read it.Anyone?
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: dobrinin on September 20, 2005, 10:02:30 AM
Maria Vladimirovna participated the All-Russian meeting of the Cossacks in the beginning of september. She herself told then, that imperial dynasty is going to move back to Russia. News were widely published in Russian and East-European press. By the way, Grand Duchess Maria, her mother Leonida Georgieyevna and her son are all Russian citizens. Possibly, that they have doubled it with Spanish citizenship.
  In same newspapers I quoted announced the chancellor of the Imperial House in Moscow, Aleksander Zakatov, that Russia is moving to the renewing of czarism. Of course the future czar is not going to have any political power, but his role is maintain Russian traditions and work for unity of the Russia.
  Same time, and possibly not by chance assured president Putin, that he is not going to canditete for third period, when the time of his presidency runs out 2007. "But I"m not leaving Russia or Russian politics", he said.
  For more information read www.imperialhouse.ru.
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: TampaBay on September 20, 2005, 10:09:57 AM
dobrinin ,

Thank you so much for the claification.

TampaBay
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: Tatia on September 20, 2005, 10:15:22 AM
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She herself told then, that imperial dynasty is going to move back to Russia.

That the imperial dynasty is going back, I don't mind so much, as long as it's not her! I don't think she or her son are Heirs of the Russian throne, there are better 'candidates' in my opinion.

But I don't if Russia really wants a monarchy? Maybe they can hold a referendum among the Russian citizens.
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: TampaBay on September 21, 2005, 07:26:33 PM
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That the imperial dynasty is going back, I don't mind so much, as long as it's not her! I don't think she or her son are Heirs of the Russian throne, there are better 'candidates' in my opinion.

But I don't if Russia really wants a monarchy? Maybe they can hold a referendum among the Russian citizens.



Tatia,

Who is your choice to sit on the Imperial Throne of all the Russias as a Constitutional Monarch and why?  Are you Russian?

TampaBay
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: Tatia on September 22, 2005, 05:48:21 AM
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Tatia,

Who is your choice to sit on the Imperial Throne of all the Russias as a Constitutional Monarch and why?  Are you Russian?

TampaBay

My choice is not one particular person, but if they are going to reinstall the Imperial house at all, then I would say someone closer to Nicholas II, like the descendants of Xenia or Olga Alexandrovna. And I personally wouldn't mind if it would be one of GD Dmitri Pavlovich's grandchildren ;D.
The reason is just that these people are closer to the latest Tsar (and maybe because I don't like Maria Vladimirovna, I don't know why, but I don't think her 'claims' to the throne are right).

And I'm Dutch :)
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: Tatia on September 28, 2005, 08:27:04 AM
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For more information read www.imperialhouse.ru.

That website is still not available in English, do you have another source?
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: calebGmoney on January 08, 2006, 12:46:03 AM
Honestly, I can't imagine why ANYBODY is still abiding by these rules and claiming to be the heir to a throne that exists in their imagination. The Romanovs will never be restored to the throne of Russia. The Russian Revolution happened for a reason. Just let it be.
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: Robert_Hall on January 08, 2006, 11:13:52 AM
While I agree that the laws of the Imperial Family are dreadfully out-of-date, I do not think anyone is claiming a non-existant throne. It is more of a "Head of the House" contention. What benefits such a "headship" bestows is not known to me personally.
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: nene on January 13, 2006, 03:49:40 PM
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Honestly, I can't imagine why ANYBODY is still abiding by these rules and claiming to be the heir to a throne that exists in their imagination. The Romanovs will never be restored to the throne of Russia. The Russian Revolution happened for a reason. Just let it be.



I totally agree with you there 100%! I think all the Russian people really want is to be free, free to live their own lives, to make their own choices, without the interference of a tsar. After everything that has happened since 1917 (and before that), if the Romanovs return to the throne, it's like history repeating itself all over again, with the people being repressed.
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: Robert_Hall on January 13, 2006, 07:02:41 PM
There is NO throne of Russia, except in the museums.
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: David_Pritchard on January 17, 2006, 06:24:09 PM
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I totally agree with you there 100%! I think all the Russian people really want is to be free, free to live their own lives, to make their own choices, without the interference of a tsar. After everything that has happened since 1917 (and before that), if the Romanovs return to the throne, it's like history repeating itself all over again, with the people being repressed.


I find it interesting that you relate reppression to the Empire rather than the Soviet Union. I can write that if I had to live within one of these time periods, say 1800-1850 or 1925-1975, I would pick the earlier period.

As for a loss of freedom, this has happened most recently under the auspices of President Putin. The first half of President Yelstsin's presidency was probably the most free period in Russian history.

If the Russian people were to have a restored limited monarchy, it would be for them to choose the person and family to fill this role. It may not be a Romanov or even a princely family but a Zhukhov, Tolstoy, Suvorov or Pushkin descendent.

David
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: nene on February 09, 2006, 12:13:21 PM
Quote

I find it interesting that you relate reppression to the Empire rather than the Soviet Union. I can write that if I had to live within one of these time periods, say 1800-1850 or 1925-1975, I would pick the earlier period.

As for a loss of freedom, this has happened most recently under the auspices of President Putin. The first half of President Yelstsin's presidency was probably the most free period in Russian history.

If the Russian people were to have a restored limited monarchy, it would be for them to choose the person and family to fill this role. It may not be a Romanov or even a princely family but a Zhukhov, Tolstoy, Suvorov or Pushkin descendent.

David



Oh goodness, I'm so sorry about that! I wasn't entirely clear on this subject. What I meant was, repression from BOTH the Empire and the Soviet Union. Both regimes should be ashamed of themselves for the way they treated millions of their countrymen. I hope to God that neither regime ever comes back to Russia. Those people deserve so much better.
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: Tania+ on February 09, 2006, 01:29:26 PM
Hello David,

Would you kindly state why you chose these particular names [stated below my post], whom you say might be chosen by the Russian people to lead Russia ? On what basis might they be chosen please ? Thank you.

Tatiana+


Zhukhov, Tolstoy, Suvorov or Pushkin descendent
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: David_Pritchard on February 09, 2006, 02:43:10 PM
Quote
Hello David,

Would you kindly state why you chose these particular names [stated below my post], whom you say might be chosen by the Russian people to lead Russia ? On what basis might they be chosen please ? Thank you.

Tatiana+

Zhukhov, Tolstoy, Suvorov or Pushkin descendent


These families are known and respected by all Russians and have largely escaped any negative taint from the Imperial or Soviet periods.

Since the demise of the Soviets there may well be more streets, towns, theatres, museums, metro stations, monuments etc. dedicated to Pushkin in Russia than to anyone else.

I believe that during his life Marshal Zhukhov was so popular with the Russian people that even Stalin did not dare have him executed. The magnificent equestrian statue now near the entry to Red Square has only enhanced his standing and that of his family.

David


Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: imperial angel on March 03, 2006, 10:35:50 AM
yes, this isn't really a Romanov struggle for the Imperial throne, because there is no throne, except in museums, as someone stated. It is just the who is the head of the house of Romanov battle that has been dragging on for years, with the same arguments. From dynastic law, it seems that Grand Duchess Maria, and Grand Duke George, have the best claim to me. Sure, there are violations of the old laws everywhere, but their branch seems to have violated it the least, from that standpoint. But Russia certainly does not need anything like that right now, although I think this Branch of the Romanovs realizes that.
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: Ariadna on May 20, 2006, 10:32:15 PM
I bought an edition of Spanish Vogue 2 years ago that had a special tribute to the heirs of royal thrones all around the world (existing and non-existing). Grand Duke George of Russia was included.

Unfortunately I cannot understand Spanish, but I can tell you what it says under occupation:

"Ayudante y asistente personal de Loyola de Palacio, Vicepresidenta de la Comision Europea"

So I'm guessing Grand Duke George is doing something in politics!
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: LisaDavidson on May 21, 2006, 03:11:51 PM
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I bought an edition of Spanish Vogue 2 years ago that had a special tribute to the heirs of royal thrones all around the world (existing and non-existing). Grand Duke George of Russia was included.

Unfortunately I cannot understand Spanish, but I can tell you what it says under occupation:

"Ayudante y asistente personal de Loyola de Palacio, Vicepresidenta de la Comision Europea"

So I'm guessing Grand Duke George is doing something in politics!

There are better Spanish translators on the board, but here's my best effort:

Aide and Personal Assistant to Loyola de Palacio, Vice-President of the European Commission.

I welcome corrections from those better suited to such work.
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: Tania+ on May 21, 2006, 08:20:55 PM
I believe in time the peoples of Russia will choose what is best for them.
It cannot be done from outside the country. The people themselves must choose.
They are going through a very long period of adjustment in many ways.
There are no quick answers. Perhaps in another twenty-five years or so.
I wish only for the best for Russia. God save Russia !

Tatiana+
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: Belochka on May 21, 2006, 08:45:05 PM
Quote
I believe in time the peoples of Russia will choose what is best for them.
It cannot be done from outside the country. The people themselves must choose.
They are going through a very long period of adjustment in many ways.
There are no quick answers. Perhaps in another twenty-five years or so.
I wish only for the best for Russia. God save Russia !

Tatiana+

With every passing year, Russia enjoys her newly acquired democratic constitutional rights and privileges. The recreation of a monarchic system is furtherest from their minds, especially in the style and form which a Spanish citizen mythologizes how it should it be.
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: GD_vassily on June 19, 2006, 02:41:19 PM
i do not endors nor support maria (or that son of hers') claim to the romanov "throne", she is in simple english a gold digging meglomaniac. her branch starting with kyril is not the most upstanding branch of the Family, kyril was just as bad as maria, a meglomaniac pretender... a better candidate would be one from the line of one the Tsars' sisters.
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: AlexP@asia.com on June 20, 2006, 06:59:53 AM
GuangZhou, PRC
2006.06.20

Dear Belochka,

I need David's help here.  Is she actually a Spanish citizen?  Can we be sure of that?  I thought that she was a French citizen and that had been reported to me by friends in Paris.  David, can you confirm this?

Next, surprise, surprise, but since 1992, at least,  she is ALSO a Russian citizen again, by decret of the B. Yelstin and she has travelled to and from Russia on a  "spetzpasport", definitely not the ordinary Red one and this I know for a fact from "tamozhniki" friends of mine  "no  rodinu".

And frankly, to stir things up around here, she is a superb choice.  She is by far the most talented, most soberminded, most educated and well-travelled Romanov that has ever existed.  She has a presence about her and the quality of her Russian language (unlike that of her father) is quite classical and literary.

Twenty years ago, everyone in the world thought for sure that the "CCCP" would last for centuries.  My God, what a plague on humanity it was.

And no frankly, I would not surprised if there were a return to a constitutional monarchy, but as Tania so correctly writes, that is the choice of the Russian people alone.

BUT

The revised and now exceptionally powerful Russian Orthodox Church is extremely monarchist, whether they admit it publickly or not.  For centuries, the Monarchy and particularly the Romanovs bestowed their largess upon the Church...and it  was not forgotten.

And now, particularly with the younger ranks of Bishops and Archbishops who are so far removed from the Soviet taint, there has been a marked shift, in many cases very publickly, in favor of the monarchy...

In  all  honesty, the Royal Martyrs were canonized (glorified in the Russian) in 2000 not because the Patriarch and all the former Soviet church nomenklatura wanted it (they didn't) but because of
of the extreme pressure from the younger bishops and archbishops and especially from the abbots and abbesses  of the monasteries and the clery in the country.

My thoughts, here, that's all..

Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: Tania+ on June 20, 2006, 03:11:43 PM
[size=10]Dear AlexP,

Apparently unbeknonst to you, you are not alone in your thoughts !  ;)
I as well think along the sameness of underestandings.
Centuries, can not, nor will not wipe out what the church has received, and in that alone
remembers well. If you look at the people, you will see again the fast rising of 'believers'.
God has not closed His eyes on Russia, but watches as it once again, rises to its full state of being.
If you watch again carefully, you will see that Putin has not forgot this, nor disallowed the connects
to slowly being secured in many ways. The Russian Orthodox Church has always been with the monarchy, was beside, and behind it fully. The Russian people are somewhat aware of this, but wait.
They are in no rush for blood to be spilled again. This time, as the Americans say, all the t's must
be crossed, and the i's dotted superbly. If the rule of the CCCP did not make them overly cautious,
then nothing else will. Their only impedment is the russian mafia...and another, but I can't say...but
do watch the people, and the church. In that will come the strongest of backing, from inside Russia !

Tatiana+[/size]



Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: Belochka on June 21, 2006, 02:47:05 AM
Quote
GuangZhou, PRC
2006.06.20

Dear Belochka,

I need David's help here.  Is she actually a Spanish citizen?  Can we be sure of that?  I thought that she was a French citizen and that had been reported to me by friends in Paris.  David, can you confirm this?

Next, surprise, surprise, but since 1992, at least,  she is ALSO a Russian citizen again, by decret of the B. Yelstin and she has travelled to and from Russia on a  "spetzpasport", definitely not the ordinary Red one and this I know for a fact from "tamozhniki" friends of mine  "no  rodinu".

[size=10]M.V. was born in Spain 23 December, 1953, and that would make her Spanish. Her paternal family have resided in Madrid for some seventy years.

I am aware that Yelsin granted her a passport but more importantly he did not offer her the status that she sought.[/size]
[/color]

Quote
And frankly, to stir things up around here, she is a superb choice.  She is by far the most talented, most soberminded, most educated and well-travelled Romanov that has ever existed.  She has a presence about her and the quality of her Russian language (unlike that of her father) is quite classical and literary.

If you wish to stir the pot about M.V.'s credentials that is fine! ;) Her Oxford degree does not enhance her false pretensions on the political sphere. It is rather sad that she appears to be denying her son to appreciate his father's heritage. As a second generation Spaniard his mother's exaggerated pretensions for her son seem very weak indeed!

Her diluted Romanov blood cannot be denied, but she is not a member of the current Romanov House by reason of her marriage to Prince Franz Wilhelm.

Margarita
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: AlexP@asia.com on June 24, 2006, 08:01:35 AM
GuangZhou, PRC
2006.06.24

Dear Belochka,

There are many issues here upon which I have been thinking for several days, albeit now and then.

First, the Grand Duchess's father was not a Spanish subject.  He was a French citizen.  His father before him obtained French nationality under the relaxed naturalisation policies of French Prime Minister Leon Blum (whom the then Grand Duke loathed).

Secondly, the Grand Duchess's Mother, the Grand Duchess Dowager, is not a Spanish subject.  She is also a French citizen, and if for no other than reason, than by fact of marriage.  At the time of the Grand Duchess's marriage to the then Grand Duke, French nationality was automatically acquired by marriage.

For years they resided in Paris and in Normandy, a fact to which I am sure that David Pritchard can attest, in a rather distinguished apartment in a rather proper corner of the Paris.

You have raised the possibility of whether or not the Grand Duchess is a Spanish subject, and it would be necessary to consider the laws in effect in 1953 in Spain. Spain at that time was governed by Francisco Franco, the Generalissimo, and I am not aware whether at that moment in history Spanish nationality was granted by place of birth or by parentage.

If they are all living in Spain now, it is surely due to the personal largess of Queen Sophia, a distant relative of some kind, who has bestowed some kind of a grace-and-favor living arrangement upon them.

Could you please state how you arrived at the (unequivocal) conclusion that the Grand Duchess is a Spanish subject (not citizen, please, because Spain is a monarchy).

All the best,


Alex P.
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: David_Pritchard on July 02, 2006, 01:55:52 AM
I have received a reply from Moscow concerning the passports upon which the present Russian Imperial Family travel and which citizenship they possess.

The three members of the Russian Imperial Family have never taken foreign citizenship. Prior to the restoration of their Russian citizenship and Russian passports by President Yeltsin in 1992, the family members traveled on Spanish diplomatic passports or on Order of Malta passports. I had heard some years ago that Prince Irakly Bagration-Mukhransky, the late brother of Grand Duchess Leonida Georgievna, also traveled on an Order of Malta passport.  According to a friend who has seen the actual passport, Grand Duchess Leonida Georgievna traveled on a Nansen passport bearing her title at least through the Second World War. One would assume that Grand Duke Vladimir Kyrilovich travelled on a similar document for at least part of his life. The Nansen passport was issued by the League of Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, Fridtjof Nansen, starting in 1922 to stateless refugees, primarily Russians, Ukrainians, Armenians and Christians living in the former Ottoman Empire. The Nansen passport was recognised as a travel document by 52 nations.

See these links for images of Nansen Passports:

http://nabo.nb.no/trip?_t=0&_b=NANSEN_ENG&_r=2&_s=E&_n=0&_q=10&_l=www_eng_l

http://nabo.nb.no/trip?_t=0&_b=NANSEN_ENG&_r=3&_s=E&_n=0&_q=10&_l=www_eng_l


David
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: Belochka on July 02, 2006, 02:27:11 AM
Quote
I have received a reply from Moscow concerning the passports upon which the present Russian Imperial Family travel and which citizenship they possess.

The three members of the Russian Imperial Family have never taken foreign citizenship. Prior to the restoration of their Russian citizenship and Russian passports by President Yeltsin in 1992, the family members traveled on Spanish diplomatic passports or on Order of Malta passports. I had heard some years ago that Prince Irakly Bagration-Mukhransky, the late brother of Grand Duchess Leonida Georgievna, also traveled on an Order of Malta passport.  According to a friend who has seen the actual passport, Grand Duchess Leonida Georgievna traveled on a Nansen passport bearing her title at least through the Second World War. One would assume that Grand Duke Vladimir Kyrilovich travelled on a similar document for at least part of his life. The Nansen passport was issued by the League of Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, Fridtjof Nansen, starting in 1922 to stateless refugees, primarily Russians, Ukrainians, Armenians and Christians living in the former Ottoman Empire. The Nansen passport was recognised as a travel document by 52 nations.

David

Thank you David for confirming that M. V. carries a Spanish Diplomatic passport.
 
My parents were issued with Nansen Passports because of their stateless refugee status after their concentration camp experiences. In the absence of any formal documentation, these were issued post WWII. The internationally recognized papers provided a secondary function: serving as I.D. cards. Those documents remained valid until the recipient was safely able to take up citizenship within their new adopted country.
 
Margarita
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: David_Pritchard on July 02, 2006, 03:10:18 AM
Dear Margarita,

I want to make it clear that the Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna carries a Spanish diplomatic passport as a courtesy of the Spanish government. Since her parents never became subjects of the Kingdom of Spain, she does not have the right to be a subject of Spain through jus sanguinis. I do know that as of 1991, registering a birth in Spain was no longer legally sufficient to claim citizenship through jus soli. It could be that the laws in force at the time of the grand duchess' birth would have allowed her to claim Spanish nationality had she so desired it.

David
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: Belochka on July 02, 2006, 05:34:50 AM
Quote
Dear Margarita,

I want to make it clear that the Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna carries a Spanish diplomatic passport as a courtesy of the Spanish government. Since her parents never became subjects of the Kingdom of Spain, she does not have the right to be a subject of Spain through jus sanguinis. I do know that as of 1991, registering a birth in Spain was no longer legally sufficient to claim citizenship through jus soli. It could be that the laws in force at the time of the grand duchess' birth would have allowed her to claim Spanish nationality had she so desired it.

David

Dear David,

I was aware that the Spanish King granted M. V. such a courtesy.

The question we need to clarify: is whether her birth in Madrid granted her automatic Spanish citizenship as a minor, in 1953, born to foreign subjects.

Best regards,

Margarita
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: Arleen on July 02, 2006, 01:42:42 PM
Margarita and David, This is so interesting....don't give up now, please continue!

Arleen
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: David_Pritchard on July 02, 2006, 03:27:13 PM
Under the 1978 Constitution of the Kingdom of Spain, Grand Duke George could claim Spanish citizenship as a person born in Spain to foreign parents, one of whom was born in Spain. He could also claim German citizenship since his father held German citizenship at the time of his birth, however in acquiring German citizenship he would have to renounce his present Russian citizenship as Germany does not recognise dual nationality.

David
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: Arleen on July 02, 2006, 04:18:13 PM
Thanks David.....Surely there must be a way to find out the exact status they are claiming for themselves since they are such public people.  Its fun to guess, but better to KNOW.....

Arleen
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: David_Pritchard on July 02, 2006, 07:57:40 PM
[size=14]Dear Arleen,

While I have written that the Grand Duchess could claim such and such citizenship and that the Grand Duke could claim such and such citizenship under the laws of various European countries, I want to make it clear that they are Russian citizens and have the travel documents of Russian citizens.

It should be remembered that having a passport of one nation or another does not always indicate citizenship of that nation. I realise for that most people this does not seem possible but when one is a Grand Duchess of Russia many extraordinary possibilities exist.

David[/size]
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: TampaBay on July 03, 2006, 11:25:02 AM
Quote
Under the 1978 Constitution of the Kingdom of Spain, Grand Duke George could claim Spanish citizenship as a person born in Spain to foreign parents, one of whom was born in Spain. He could also claim German citizenship since his father held German citizenship at the time of his birth, however in acquiring German citizenship he would have to renounce his present Russian citizenship as Germany does not recognise dual nationality.

David

Neither does the USA.

TampaBay
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: David_Pritchard on July 03, 2006, 12:41:17 PM
Correct Tampabay!

There is some difference between the USA and Germany when it comes to dual citizenship. In the USA the foreign nationality is not recognised or more correctly simply viewed as irrelevant in the eyes of the US government, however in Germany a second nationality is not tolerated under the law. Secretly retaining ones previous citizenship or acquiring another nationality while a German citizen are legal grounds for loosing ones German nationality.

David

Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: TampaBay on July 03, 2006, 01:04:07 PM
Funny you should bring this up.  I had an aquaintance who tried to get out of paying USA taxes because he claimed citizenship in FOUR different countries and had FOUR different passports.  

Anyway the IRS politely told him either he was a citizen of the USA or he was not a citizen of the USA. Per the IRS, since he was a lawful citizen of the USA none of the other "citizenships" are recoginized by the USA.

Therefore, he had to pay his USA taxes as the IRS configured his tax bill or go to jail.

Tampabay
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: Robert_Hall on July 03, 2006, 05:23:43 PM
In the USA, one pays taxes on income earned in the country, no matter what one is a citizen of.
 Which brings us back to MV...if she does pay any taxes, to whom would she pay them ?
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: TampaBay on July 03, 2006, 07:40:31 PM
Quote
In the USA, one pasys taxes on income earned it the country, no matter what one is a citizen of.
 Which brings us back to MV...if she does pay any taxes, to whom would she pay them ?


GOOD QUESTION!!!!!  ;) ;) ;)

TampaBay
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: Nathalie on July 07, 2006, 04:19:40 PM
I totally agree with you there 100%! I think all the Russian people really want is to be free, free to live their own lives, to make their own choices, without the interference of a tsar. After everything that has happened since 1917 (and before that), if the Romanovs return to the throne, it's like history repeating itself all over again, with the people being repressed.


Nah if people still cheer for the memory of Stalin or Lenin, don'T be so sure, Romanovs couldn't pull it out... :o
But no..it would be really weird, non of the post-communist countries restored kingdom-though I find very smart the Bulgarian royal, who became the PM for a time (or maybe still, I don't know). Thats good, because not the boold counts, but the ability, at least theoretically.
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: TampaBay on July 08, 2006, 06:55:21 AM
It seems to me that if a monarchy was re-installed in Russia it would be almost only as a figure head as in Norway & Sweeden not as a true ruler as in Monaco, Spain or to a lesser degree Great Britian.  There are good arguments both poltical and encomic for having a family on a throne.

If I were GD Maria Vladimirovna and really wanted to be part of all that is Russia and all that is now going on in Russia, I would move back to Russia as a private citizen ASAP.

Does anyone know why she has not moved back to Russia?

TampaBay
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: Bach on August 18, 2006, 10:26:57 AM
I think to answer that question, TampaBay, is to examine several questions:

1.  How is she funded, and would she be able to enjoy her lifestyle (without working) equally well there as in Spain?
2.  Is part of her financial funding requisite on her remaining in Spain?  I have heard that the Royal family of Spain contributes to her furbishment and upkeep; perhaps there is the agreement between governments that she can agitate for restoration but cannot return to Russia unless specifically invited.
3.  Who is Putin and would he permit her to return?  She is of no value to him, and he is old-style Soviet, dressed in democratic trappings, after all.
4. What can she possibly offer to the Russian government that would make her attractive to invite back? Her claims are disputed, her imperiousness offensive.  If the Russian government thought she was a horse to be backed, arrangements would have been made to un-invite the other Romanovs to the reburial, and glorify her only.  That didn't happen.
5.  And given the reburial situation, it could be that she just doesn't WANT to go back and lead a private life.  Russia is not her home; Spain is.  It's her terms or no terms, and Russia isn't exactly saying she's all that and a bag of chips.

That would be my line of questioning and reasoning.
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: Seth Leonard on August 18, 2006, 11:15:03 PM
Maria has already made comments to the Russian press about why she and her family have not yet returned. See here: http://www.imperialhouse.ru/eng/dynastynews/news/vin/360.html (she is asked the question towards the end of the interview)
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: Bach on August 19, 2006, 10:40:15 AM
So it's a combination of #4 and #5.

*  She doesn't want a private life, she wants recognition of her "claims;" and

*  There is no incentive for the government of Russia to invite her back in that capacity.  She adds nothing to the equation.

Same for her son, I imagine.

The money question is also important, but of course MV does not address her underwriting.


On the citizenship debate earlier:

My father holds dual US and Irish citizenship, which is useful when traveling in the EU.  My mother, who is of Hungarian descent, also holds dual US and Irish citizenship by virtue of being married to my father.  The US government does not recognize the Irish citizenship and my parents pay all taxes to the US.  Ireland allows dual citizenship and does not demand taxes until residency is established.

My great-uncle held US citizenship by birth and when he traveled in Europe for 3 years prior to the outbreak of WWII, he was granted Hungarian citizenship (Austro-Hungarian) after visiting Budapest and applying.  He was not required to renounce his US citizenship.  When he returned to the US in 1939 and enlisted in early 1940 (having seen the situation in Europe and knowing that the US was destined to enter the war,) he was required to renounce his Hungarian citizenship although he had never given up US citizenship.  About 2 months after his death under US arms in 1942, he got a draft notice from Nazi Austria saying that they had rejected his renunciation of citizenship.

Strange citizenship questions indeed, and my uncle was clearly not a Grand Duchess where "extraordinary possibilities" existed.
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: TampaBay on August 19, 2006, 04:49:55 PM

2.  Is part of her financial funding requisite on her remaining in Spain?  I have heard that the Royal family of Spain contributes to her furbishment and upkeep; perhaps there is the agreement between governments that she can agitate for restoration but cannot return to Russia unless specifically invited.


I have heard the above Royal Family of Spain rumor too.  I cannot figure out why the Spanish Royal family would give her an allowance.  Also, I read that Maria's Half-Sister threw her out of her house.  Has anyone elsa heard this story?  I wonder in Maria received child supoort from the Hohenzollerns for GD George.

TampaBay
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: Bach on August 20, 2006, 11:48:40 AM
TampaBay, like you, I have heard that her half-sister finally had her fill of Maria and ended their relationship.  Since it was the money of Helen Kirby's father, Leonida's first husband Sumner, which supported Maria and her son these many years, it would appear that other arrangements needed to be made for their table, hearth and roof.

As they are both citizens of Spain by virtue of birth, it may be that the Spanish Royal family considers them a special kind of ward of the state, distant relatives of royal blood who should be sheltered.  Did not the Royal Family of GB eventually offer a grace-and favor to one of the GD's later in life?  I'm on vacation and have not access to my books, but I'm certain that was the case.

Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: Robert_Hall on August 20, 2006, 12:56:17 PM
Where have you read of this estrangement ? I would be interested in finding out the details. Or at least what is known.
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: Seth Leonard on August 20, 2006, 01:07:05 PM
Where have you read of this estrangement ? I would be interested in finding out the details. Or at least what is known.

I myself read about it here: http://www.royals-portal.de/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=5065&view=findpost&p=28341. There aren't any details as to why it happened (or is alleged to have happened), though.
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: TampaBay on August 20, 2006, 07:31:31 PM
Where have you read of this estrangement ? I would be interested in finding out the details. Or at least what is known.

I myself read about it here: http://www.royals-portal.de/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=5065&view=findpost&p=28341. There aren't any details as to why it happened (or is alleged to have happened), though.

The link did not work.  Who is GD George supoosed to marry?

TampaBay
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: miller99 on August 25, 2006, 01:05:02 PM
GD Vladimir Kirilliovich was a close relative of Queen of Spain Victoria Eugenie b. Battenberg. 
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: TampaBay on August 27, 2006, 05:04:12 AM
Through Queen Victoria?

TampaBay
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: pookiepie on October 13, 2006, 11:43:05 PM
Does anyone know why she has not moved back to Russia?

i've noticed that many people say this, but to go back somewhere implies you were there before. if she was born (and raised, i assume) in Spain, she is a Spaniard (of Russian descent), not a Russian. visiting the country doesn't count. as much as i like the romanovs and imperial russia and wish the revolution didn't happen, this is still all fantasy. russians won't accpet a bunch of fereigners as their leaders. i think bringing up the monarchy again is too much work. russia doesn't need that right now.
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: miller99 on October 14, 2006, 04:22:07 PM
Through Queen Victoria?

TampaBay


Through is mother Victoria Melita and grandgrandmother Empress Maria b . Hessen -Darmstadt 
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: imperialruss on April 19, 2008, 05:21:40 AM
 Well HIH CALENDER IS VERY ACTIVE INDEED !


Here is the latest full report of HIH  activities in Australia which was a great succsess\

http://russianwelfare.org.au/pdf/imperial.pdf


http://russianwelfare.org.au/pdf/imperial.pdf, in fact HIH HAS BEEN TO RUSSIA SO MANY TIMES IN THE LAST FEW YEARS ITS HARD TO KEEP UP WITH HIH, DOING CHARITY WORK --MEET AND GREET OFFICIALS AND PEOPLE FROM ONE END OF RUSSIA TO THE OTHER , LAST YEAR IN VLADIVOSTOK, ON NAVY SHIPS ECT.


http://www.riuo.org/SUCCESSION_ENGLISH.pdf
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: Ilias_of_John on February 27, 2009, 01:22:28 AM
I just had a quiet drink with a friend of mine and learnt some news you all may be interested in.

During the election of Patriarch Kyril, HIH Grand Duchess Maria was in Moscow observing the events.
She was fortunate to be invited to dinner with a certain Mr. V. Putin, and during the week was very busy granting orders to various soldiers and other Russian Hero's.
It appears very evident that something is in the wind, a recognition of sort sort,ala, an official decleration of her being the Official Head of the family, and perhaps some sort of invitation to live in Russia, in a role fairly similar to that of HRH Crown Prince Alexander of Serbia.

Also, that her son HIH Grand Duke George is acting as a representative for that Russian energy company, whatsitsname(ov) lol, and that this is OBVIOUSLY the very first time since 1917 that a Romanov is officially a representative of Russian industry, let alone annything else.


Now back to that bottle of red!!!
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: Marc on February 27, 2009, 07:31:07 PM
Hm,interesting...but George is rather von Hohenzollern-Holstein-Gottorp-Romanov...
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: Ilias_of_John on February 27, 2009, 08:38:28 PM
Ah, I dont think I want to partake in that debate any more!!
We all know the truth, yet times, people, empires and surnames change!


 :-X
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: Marc on February 28, 2009, 05:49:36 AM
True ;-) I don't talk about how they called themselves but who they are by blood...
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: Ilias_of_John on March 24, 2009, 06:19:13 PM
http://www.imperialhouse.ru/eng/dynastynews/news/2009/869.html
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: LisaDavidson on March 24, 2009, 07:24:26 PM
Hm,interesting...but George is rather von Hohenzollern-Holstein-Gottorp-Romanov...

Not if the marriage contracts between the couple indicate otherwise - which they do. When a female dynast is heir, her legitimate issue generally "belong" to her dynastic house - which he does.
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: Marc on March 26, 2009, 10:39:36 AM
So,he would only belong to the House of Holstein-Gottorp? ;-)
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: LisaDavidson on March 27, 2009, 03:11:22 PM
So,he would only belong to the House of Holstein-Gottorp? ;-)

No, the name of this particular dynasty is Romanov-Holstein-Gottorp. No matter what it's called, I am given to understand that George is not of the House of Hohenzollern per the marriage contract.
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: violetta on March 27, 2009, 05:32:30 PM
During his visit to Russia in November 2009 Georgiy Mikhailovich accepted the offer of a position of the advisor of the Diector of the company NORILSKIY NIKEL ( it i think poduces metals) and strted his job in december 2008. he presents the companu in the European union.also, he became a member of the board of directors of Nickel Institute where he deals with the European Commission. In fact, he is going to fight agains the decision of the European Cmmission that considered that some products of NORILSKIY NIKEL contain too many noxious substances. he is going to do his best to change the decision of Europ Comission. 


I just had a quiet drink with a friend of mine and learnt some news you all may be interested in.

During the election of Patriarch Kyril, HIH Grand Duchess Maria was in Moscow observing the events.
She was fortunate to be invited to dinner with a certain Mr. V. Putin, and during the week was very busy granting orders to various soldiers and other Russian Hero's.
It appears very evident that something is in the wind, a recognition of sort sort,ala, an official decleration of her being the Official Head of the family, and perhaps some sort of invitation to live in Russia, in a role fairly similar to that of HRH Crown Prince Alexander of Serbia.

Also, that her son HIH Grand Duke George is acting as a representative for that Russian energy company, whatsitsname(ov) lol, and that this is OBVIOUSLY the very first time since 1917 that a Romanov is officially a representative of Russian industry, let alone annything else.


Now back to that bottle of red!!!

Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: Ilias_of_John on March 27, 2009, 06:03:20 PM
There are currently moves afoot to grant the GDuchess and her son Grace and Favour apartments in a St.Petersburg Palace.
 
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: violetta on March 27, 2009, 06:10:57 PM
once mariya vladimirovna was asked why she didn`tlive in any of St Petersburg palaces. she said that it was really expensive to maintain such a palace...
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: Macedonsky on April 04, 2009, 04:58:48 AM
the name of this particular dynasty is Romanov-Holstein-Gottorp
Foreign variant from Almanach de Gotha. In Russia it was "The Russian Imperial House". Since 1913 Jubilee title "House of Romanovs" was also used.
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: TampaBay on April 09, 2009, 04:43:51 PM

the name of this particular dynasty is Romanov-Holstein-Gottorp




Foreign variant from Almanach de Gotha. In Russia it was "The Russian Imperial House". Since 1913 Jubilee title "House of Romanovs" was also used.




Mr. Macedonsky,

Do you agree with Ms. Lisa Davidson that the members of  "The Russian Imperial House" have no surname?

TampaBay

Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: mcdnab on April 09, 2009, 10:50:11 PM
I think the correct terminology is that a royal family has a "House Name!" which is usual based on their dynastic origins, some who are mere branches of the house have added others to it but that arguably a Royal doesn't have or need a surname. It's only really become an issue for deposed royals and for the still reigning families who've limited the use of royal titles and styles and have been presented with the issue.
So arguably they are within their rights to choose whichever surname they like rather like most of today's reigning houses who've been presented with a similar issue.
As Maria Vladimirovna is a claimant to the throne of Russia she rightly choses to use a style of pretension (and i mean no insult here) in the same way that many others who claim a now defunct throne do. Whether she uses a surname on her passport or legal documents is up to her - but it may be that her passport is issued in her style of pretension - Maria Vladimirovna Grand Duchess of Russia etc...
In Britain the Royal House of Saxe Coburg Gotha became the House of Windsor (with limits on the Royal style to the third generation and those descendants needing a surname using Windsor) changed again by the present Queen to enable her descendants needing a surname to link two made up names Mountbatten Windsor - the first to legally need to use that surname will be the first born son of HRH Prince James of Wessex Viscount Severn although he will not technically need it as from birth he will be entitled to use a courtesy title
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: TampaBay on April 10, 2009, 06:56:56 AM

In Britain the Royal House of Saxe Coburg Gotha became the House of Windsor (with limits on the Royal style to the third generation and those descendants needing a surname using Windsor) changed again by the present Queen to enable her descendants needing a surname to link two made up names Mountbatten Windsor - the first to legally need to use that surname will be the first born son of HRH Prince James of Wessex Viscount Severn although he will not technically need it as from birth he will be entitled to use a courtesy title


I think when Anne, The Princess Royal married Captain Mark Phillips she signed the registar as "Anne Mountbatten-Windsor".

TampaBay
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: mcdnab on April 10, 2009, 10:44:38 AM
Yes because she's very fond of her father - but she shouldn't have done and she didn't need to - HRH The Princess Anne of the UK of Great Britain and Northern Ireland would have done or simply Anne
To give you an example Prince William's birth certificate gives no surname for himself, his father or his mother (only her maiden name Spencer)
they are described respectively as HRH Prince William Arthur Philip Louis, HRH Prince Charles Philip Arthur George Prince of Wales and HRH The Princess of Wales (maiden name Spencer) and the Prince of Wales signed the birth certificate just Charles.
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: imperialruss on April 11, 2009, 06:34:58 AM


Greetings to all ,

This web site is updated often for news , if you cannot read Russian put the URL in Babel Fish , not a great translation but you will be able to understand the news .


http://www.monarhist.ru/club.htm


http://www.royalhouseofgeorgia.ge/es/home.php   Royal House of Georgia Spanish and Georgian English version unfinished


Imperial Regards
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: Ilias_of_John on May 05, 2009, 05:47:32 AM
HIH Grand Duchess Maria is in Moscow today on her way through to the Romanian and Russian border areas.
Monday 5th May.
 :-X
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: Lucien on May 08, 2009, 02:23:35 AM
I just had a quiet drink with a friend of mine and learnt some news you all may be interested in.

During the election of Patriarch Kyril, HIH Grand Duchess Maria was in Moscow observing the events.
She was fortunate to be invited to dinner with a certain Mr. V. Putin, and during the week was very busy granting orders to various soldiers and other Russian Hero's.
It appears very evident that something is in the wind, a recognition of sort sort,ala, an official decleration of her being the Official Head of the family, and perhaps some sort of invitation to live in Russia, in a role fairly similar to that of HRH Crown Prince Alexander of Serbia.

Also, that her son HIH Grand Duke George is acting as a representative for that Russian energy company, whatsitsname(ov) lol, and that this is OBVIOUSLY the very first time since 1917 that a Romanov is officially a representative of Russian industry, let alone annything else.


Now back to that bottle of red!!!


You mean the next bottle....... ::) :P
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: Ilias_of_John on May 08, 2009, 02:26:54 AM
Yep!
:)
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: Lucien on May 08, 2009, 02:42:49 AM
Yep!
:)

Now that's what I call an eloquent post!

 :D
Title: Re: What are Maria Vladimirovna and her son doing?
Post by: Seth Leonard on July 14, 2009, 05:34:13 PM
The Grand Duchess Maria will be visiting the city of Gomel, Belarus, from July 16-18. While there she will meet with various local business and religious leaders.

Then, on July 19, Her Imperial Highness will move on to the Brest region.

http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?doit=done&tt=url&intl=1&fr=bf-home&trurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.interfax.by%2Farticle%2F48502&lp=ru_en&btnTrUrl=Translate