Alexander Palace Forum
Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => The Stuarts of Scotland => Topic started by: Prince_Lieven on September 08, 2005, 04:11:49 PM
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A thread to discuss Queen Margaret, Scotland's first ever Queen-regnant!
Margaret was born on 9 April 1283 to Eric II of Norway and Margaret, daughter of Alexander III of Scotland. Her mother died in childbirth. When Alexander III died in 1286, the 3 year old Margaret was declared Queen of Scots, which said a lot for how far the laws of progmeniture had come in Scotland. Edward I, King of England, arranged the Treaty of Birgham in 1290 with the Scottish lords, which arranged that Margaret was eventually marry his son and heir the Prince of Wales.
MArgaret left Norway for Scotland in 1290, but fell ill soon afterwards and died in the Orkney Islands c.September 26. She was buried in Bergen with her mother.
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The treaty of Birgham:
(http://www.scotlandspast.org/images/Margaret&EdwardProposal1290ad.jpg)
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Pic of Margaret:
(http://www.royalhouseofstewart.org.uk/Battles/maidofnorway.jpg)
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Poor child!
Only seven years old and died en route to claim her crown!
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How different History would have been had Margaret survived and married the Prince of Wales or any other man!
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Hhmmmm yes, in particular for the future Edward II- he might have had a more "comfortable " death.
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Or maybe an even more uncomfortable one, if Margaret had used her Norwegian imagination!
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Just a side note: because the new rule for monarchial numerals in the UK is to take the highest one from either England or Scotlands, the next Queen Margaret will be Margaret II . . . just some useless trivia. ::)
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Or maybe an even more uncomfortable one, if Margaret had used her Norwegian imagination!
Oooff,the mind boggles :o
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Re: Margaret II:
Would that have applied to Princess Margaret if the Queen had died young? Or is this a recent change?
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I think it was decided in the 60s . . . but I might be wrong.
Now, bell, this is one I can call La pauvre petite Margaret. ;)
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Well in the picture you posted I thought she looked rather tall for her age. ;D
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;D ;D Oh, don't trust that - it was probably done about 300 years after she died. ;)
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I meant that if Margaret had grown up, married Edward and had him murdered she could have used her imagination (which was Norwegian since she was from Norway) to think of an unusual and cruel form of death. :)
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I don't know! but they probably had a few unusual local varieties. :D
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How about a smack in the gob with some frozen salt cod ;D
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Yessss! Any other ideas? ;D
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Well I am sure Norwegian food is a culinary delight so how about being wrapped in whale blubber and bombarded with meatballs ;D
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while stapled to a christmas tree!
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This is a very imaginative discussion . . . I've always thought that being slapped with a wet fish of any kind would be AWFUL. ;D
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Come round to ours any friday night.. friday night is "wet fish in the gob" night 8)
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;D ;D ;D I may hold you to that!
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So who ruled Scotland while Margaret was Queen?
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Hi Kmerov!
A regency council was decided by a parliament of nobles and prelates shortly after Alexander's death. It comprised six "governors" - four noblemen and two bishops Glasgow and St Andrews. It wasn't a very satisfactory arrangement as these men didn't cooperate.
However the arrangement survived (minus two governors who died) until 1290 when the Maid died.
At this point Edward I saw fit to nominate her successor. He chose John Balliol.
A similar regency council was set up (at first) for Mary Queen of Scots.
Hope you didn't object to all the Norwegian jokes by the way, am I right in thinking that you are danish?
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i was JUST thinking of opening a thread about the what-ifs concerning margaret marrying edward... *sighs*... i really am away too much...
the interesting part is that had they married and had children the scottish and english crowns would have been united a lot earlier than they were...
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and there wouldn't have been a Stuart thread to post on here.....
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...and a couple of wars less... :)
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There were other occasions when this might have happened:
If Elizabeth had died of Smallpox in 1562
If Mary Queen of Scots had married Edward VI and they had produced a child.
If James V of Scotland had married Henry VIII's daughter Mary.
If Henry VIII had died without children (James V would have inherited).
If James IV of Scotland had married Edward IV's daughter Cicely (they were engaged in the 1470s), and Elizabeth of York and Henry VII had died in a bizarre multiple accident.
Can anyone think of any more ifs?
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Well, bell, you seems quite fond of counterfactual history, as am I! Umm . . . I can' think of any more . . . Arbella Stuart had a claim to both thrones. If James I had died childless . . . ::)
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Or if he had married her instead of Anne of Denmark!
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If Elizabeth and Charles had succumbed to Typhoid in 1612 along with their brother Henry, then the crowns could have separated again.
The heir to England was Arabella Stuart. After her death it would be the descendants of Catherine Grey (i.e. Edward and William Seymour).
The heir to Scotland was the Earl of Arran (one of the Hamiltons anyway). They were the senior line of descendants from James II's daughter Mary. (Hope I've got this right!)
Another interesting possibility would be that Elizabeth and Frederick managed to hang on in Bohemia but converted to catholicism (à la Henri IV). In 1700 they would have no protestant descendants. Thus the Act of Succession would have to look to the descendants of Catherine Grey in England and the Hamiltons in Scotland. The Act of Union in 1707 would never have happened!
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Yes, or what if the Gunpoweder Plot had succeeded, and the rebels made Elizabeth Queen Elizabeth II, but Charles' supporters had him crowned King of Scots - separate again!!
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Hope you didn't object to all the Norwegian jokes by the way, am I right in thinking that you are danish?
Thanks for the info. :)
Yes I'm danish, and no, not at all. You can make all the jokes you want about norwegian people. ;D ;)
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Thanks for the info. :)
Yes I'm danish, and no, not at all. You can make all the jokes you want about norwegian people. ;D ;)
You're welcome. Do feel free to contribute about the Scandinavian connection in the Stuart section. We've done Anne of Denmark on the Scottish consorts thread, and Margaret of Denmark (1456-86) is coming up shortly!
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And you can insult British cuisine as much as you like ;D
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though not Scottish cuisine!
I recently gave a friend here in Germany (!) a recipe for cockieleekie soup, which, he assured me, went down very well!
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You're welcome. Do feel free to contribute about the Scandinavian connection in the Stuart section. We've done Anne of Denmark on the Scottish consorts thread, and Margaret of Denmark (1456-86) is coming up shortly!
I'm afraid I don't know anything about these women ( :-[), exept that Denmark had to give Scotland the Orkney and Shetland Islands when (I think) Margrete was married, and the country was in lack of money.
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Yes, Scotland was allowed to take over Shetland and Orkney until Margaret's dowry was paid. It never was, so Scotland just kept the islands. All of the Hebrides (and I think the Isle of Man) were Norwegian until 1266!
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those islands were the dowry of anne of denmark, james 1st's (of england 6th of scotland) wife... or so i thought... :-/
edited to add: anne of denmark that is
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Hi Ilyala!
No it was definitely Margaret of Denmark's dowry - She married James III in 1468 or 1469. We drifted off topic I'm afraid and started talking about another Margaret!
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I think the Maid has never been portrayed by a child actress in television or film?