Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => French Royals => Topic started by: TampaBay on September 10, 2005, 04:05:25 PM

Title: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: TampaBay on September 10, 2005, 04:05:25 PM
Could someone please give an overview of the three "families" with a claim to the French Throne and how or why they justify their claims?

TampaBay
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Prince_Lieven on September 10, 2005, 05:56:53 PM
Hi TB, great to see you over here.  :)

Which three claimants do you mean? I know of the Orleans one but I don't know about the others?
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: jackie3 on September 10, 2005, 06:49:01 PM
I assume we're talking about:
1. Henri D'Orleans, Count of Paris (descended from King Louis Phillipe, King of the French), the House of Orleans are descendants of Louis XIII, I suppose the Count of Paris is regarded by most French as the rightful Pretender to the non-existent throne.

2. Luis Alfonso de Borbon (or in France Louis Alphonse), Duke of Anjou, descended from Louis XIV (through his grandson Phillip V of Spain), cousin of King Juan Carlos of Spain, the grandson of Don Jamie, the son of King Alfonso of Spain, who was a deaf-mute and abdicated his rights in favor of his brother Don Juan (father of Juan Carlos). Luis Alfonso is also the grandson of General Franco and he just recently got married.
Since Don Jamie and his descendants were no longer elgible for the Spanish throne and because Luis Alfonso is the senior male-line descendant of Hugh Capet, Legitimists view him as the Pretender rather than the desendants of the regicide Phillip Egalite d'Orleans (who voted for the execution of his cousin, Louis XIV)

3. Prince Napoleon, descendant of one of the brothers of Napoleon I, I don't know if there is any serious Bonapartists these days though.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: TampaBay on September 10, 2005, 07:18:33 PM
jackie3,

Thanks!

I understand that the followers or adherents of "1." cannot stand the follower or adherents of "2."

Who did the head of the house of "2." recently marry? Was it an equal marriage?

TampaBay
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Prince_Lieven on September 11, 2005, 07:18:01 AM
Umm . . . I don't know, TB, but I think Umigon probably will . . .  :D
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: umigon on September 11, 2005, 07:29:06 AM


Luis Alfonso married last year a rich Sudamerican heiress, María Margarita de Vargas y Santaella, born in 1983. María Margarita is not a noble, and is far from being a royal, but France doesn't force its princes to marry into royalty or the higher nobility, so this marriage, to the eyes of Luis Alfonso's supporters, is not morganatic and they are 'le Roi Louis XX' and 'la Reine Marie Marguerite'.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: umigon on September 11, 2005, 07:30:33 AM
Luis Alfonso's parents were Alfonso de Borbón y Dampierre (1936-1989), duke of Cadiz, and María del Carmen Martínez-Bordiú y Franco (1951-), grandaughter of General Franco.

Luis Alfonso had an older brother, Francisco, born in 1972, who died in 1984 in a car wreck.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Prince_Lieven on September 11, 2005, 07:32:15 AM
 :D I told you Umigon would know . . .
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Lucien on September 14, 2005, 08:24:40 AM
Quote
I assume we're talking about:
1. Henri D'Orleans, Count of Paris (descended from King Louis Phillipe, King of the French), the House of Orleans are descendants of Louis XIII, I suppose the Count of Paris is regarded by most French as the rightful Pretender to the non-existent throne.

2. Luis Alfonso de Borbon (or in France Louis Alphonse), Duke of Anjou, descended from Louis XIV (through his grandson Phillip V of Spain), cousin of King Juan Carlos of Spain, the grandson of Don Jamie, the son of King Alfonso of Spain, who was a deaf-mute and abdicated his rights in favor of his brother Don Juan (father of Juan Carlos). Luis Alfonso is also the grandson of General Franco and he just recently got married.
Since Don Jamie and his descendants were no longer elgible for the Spanish throne and because Luis Alfonso is the senior male-line descendant of Hugh Capet, Legitimists view him as the Pretender rather than the desendants of the regicide Phillip Egalite d'Orleans (who voted for the execution of his cousin, Louis XIV)

3. Prince Napoleon, descendant of one of the brothers of Napoleon I, I don't know if there is any serious Bonapartists these days though.


Prince Charles Napoléon lives in Ajaccio,Corsica.He'll be in The Netherlands in a few weeks to open an exhibition.The link also gives some info about what HIH is doing at present.

http://www.armymuseum.nl/legermuseum.en/legermuseum.en/i000343.html
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Lucien on September 14, 2005, 08:46:47 AM
And the same link in Dutch,but the picture is different.

http://www.legermuseum.nl/legermuseum.nl/legermuseum.nl/i000414.html

The text says that Charles ambition is not the Crown,he's a republican(sit down and take a breath,for those who need it.........),he's involved in Corsican politics and his aims are more for a career in regional- and maybe national politics.

There is ofcourse always the chance he once will be elected President de la Republique,and subsequently announce the re-creation of the French Empire,it was done before after all,wasn't it.......again take a deep breath,there,see,I knew you would feel much better now........
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: umigon on September 14, 2005, 08:54:23 AM


A Third Empire in France!! Well, then Spain's summers are rainy! he he ;)


I don't think he could do that, could he? Are you French, Lucien?
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Lucien on September 14, 2005, 09:50:19 AM
I don't know,at present I don't think he could do that,but history proved stranger things have happened,as some threads here on this Forum proved...

No I'm not French,I'm Dutch.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Robert_Hall on September 14, 2005, 10:12:15 AM
Btw, 'd'Orleans voted for the death of Louis XVI, not the XIV. He went to the guillotine himself  eventually.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Lucien on September 14, 2005, 10:19:25 AM
Ah,see,that's what happens to treators.Family!Can be such a nuisance at times,don't you think?..... ;D
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: jackie3 on September 14, 2005, 11:21:56 PM
Quote
Btw, 'd'Orleans voted for the death of Louis XVI, not the XIV. He went to the guillotine himself  eventually.


Oops. I got my V's and I's in the wrong order. As for Egalite, I once skimmed through the memoirs of his son King Louis Phillipe and although he was very retiecent about it was obvious the action (voting for the death of the King - especially he had promised to the last minute to either abstain or not be present) caused HIS family a lot of pain, L-P tried to talk his father out of it and he and his family (the Orleans branch) have paid the price of being tied to Egalite ever since.

Personally I think Phillipe d'Orleans like a lot of the more extreme revolutionists who followed him got their just desserts. Once they went down the rode of cutting people's heads off and putting on show trials (in the case of Marie Antionette) then it was just a matter of time before it caught up to them.


Quote
There is ofcourse always the chance he once will be elected President de la Republique,and subsequently announce the re-creation of the French Empire,it was done before after all,wasn't it.......again take a deep breath,there,see,I knew you would feel much better now........


Ah, yes, now that you mention it I seem to recall Napoleon I and Napoleon III both calling themselves true "Republicans" as well...and we know how that turned out.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Lucien on September 18, 2005, 06:25:04 PM
Quote

A Third Empire in France!! Well, then Spain's summers are rainy! he he ;)


I don't think he could do that, could he? Are you French, Lucien?

To Umigon.I think Prince Napoleon has been reading our posts....

Almost two hundred years after his farewell at Fontainebleau in 1814,a Napoleon returns to the Imperial city.Prince Charles Napoleon,a descendant of the Emperors youngest brother Jerome,announced his intention to bid for the cities mayorship in 2008.The announcement came only two weeks prior to the partial mayoral elections on october 15th,As an Ajaccio city counselor,Napoléon has no intention to be a candidate opposite Simon Renucci,the leftist mayor.Thus he choose Fontainebleau:the Eagle's great-grandnephew will be back to the nest.

Now.Will the rain in Spain..............lol.  

Btw,apparently Charles's father,Prince Napoléon,Prince Louis is said to have directed before his death that the headship of the Family should desolve upon his grandson,Jean Christophe(1986-),passing his own son,Prince Charles,due to various disagreements between the two.

Would that have anything to do with Charles fathering a daughter 4 years before he married the mother,his present wife Jeanne Francoise in 1996,after divorcing from Princess Beatrice de Bourbon-Sicily.......?
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Helene on September 20, 2005, 04:03:05 AM
This morning, there was an interview of Henri d'Orléans at the radio, he thinks he has a real chance
to be at the head of the France one day and when the day will come he wants to be called Henri VII and he don't want to live in Versailles but at the Elysée.

Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Prince_Lieven on September 20, 2005, 10:40:22 AM
He's already decided where he will live! That is optimistic!  :o
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Helene on September 20, 2005, 11:37:19 AM
Lol, yes, I think there is a gap between what he wants and what  french want today, he has no program but wants to be elected, it's a bit difficult ;D
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: QueenEna1887 on September 23, 2005, 03:36:16 PM
Who do you think is elligible for the French throne? Why is Don Luis Alfonso and his family not elligble for the Spanish throne?
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: jackie3 on September 24, 2005, 12:38:47 AM
Quote
Who do you think is elligible for the French throne? Why is Don Luis Alfonso and his family not elligble for the Spanish throne?


Because his grandfather, Don Jaimie renounced his rights and the rights of his descendants to the Spanish throne.  But still being the senior male-line Bourbon he allowed himself to be considered a contender for the French throne by Legitimists who didn't like the line of Orleans.

If Luis-Alfonso should die without having a son, the senior male line descendant of Hugh Capet will be King Juan Carlos and then Prince Felipe and since neither is interested in the non-existent French throne, the Orleanists will have the Bourbon claims to themselves (the Bonapartes being another matter).
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Alexios on November 11, 2005, 03:35:23 PM
Which pretender would you support?
I'd argue for Louis XX, since he is the lawful king.
Quotation:
"Selon la règle de primogéniture masculine et en application du principe d'indisponibilité de la Couronne,
le prétendant actuel à la Couronne de France serait Louis-Alphonse, duc de Bourbon, né en 1974."
France became not at last a republic, because the monarchists were divided into three groups.
I once read that an attempt to restore the monarchy with Henry (V) as king failed only because Henry was not willing to use the tricolore as national coat of arms...he insisted on the traditonal Fleur de Lys.
As he expressed it himself:
 «Je ne laisserai pas arracher de mes mains l'étendard d'Henri IV, de François 1er et de Jeanne d'Arc. C'est avec lui que s'est faite l'unité nationale... Il a flotté sur mon berceau, je veux qu'il ombrage ma tombe... Français ! Henri V ne peut abandonner le drapeau blanc d'Henri IV».
(The last sentence means: Henry V cannot give up the white coat of arms of Henri IV)
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Lucien on December 04, 2005, 03:05:01 AM
Yesterday it was 200 years to the day of Napoléon's victory at Austerlitz:
http://www.independent.co.uk/europe/article330450.ece
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Duke_of_Lynnwood on December 08, 2005, 12:32:14 AM
On the idea of who I'd support I'd support Henri VII because he's the most french. Don Luis is mostly Spanish. I'd go for Henri. But the fact of the matter is there's only dissolution of monarchies. I don't expect any new or returning monarchies in the coming years.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Alexios on December 10, 2005, 12:28:21 PM
Quote
On the idea of who I'd support I'd support Henri VII because he's the most french. Don Luis is mostly Spanish. I'd go for Henri. But the fact of the matter is there's only dissolution of monarchies. I don't expect any new or returning monarchies in the coming years.

Sadly no.:( There are some chances, but not very probable.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: mchien on January 02, 2006, 02:57:48 PM
Why can't you stand those who support the legitimate King - Louis XX.  Is it a defect of ours or of yours?

As for being the most French - who is more French than France's king?  He's certainly as French as his ancestor Louis XIV - who also had a Spanish mother, I believe.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: umigon on January 02, 2006, 04:46:04 PM


Well, don Luis was born and brought up in Madrid, that is why people say he is Spanish. And both of his parents are Spanish, his father being born in Rome, though. So yes, I agree that Henri is much more of a French prince than Luis Alfonso. However, by "male primogeniture laws" he is King Louis XX of France, and he is the one I would support.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: cimbrio on January 04, 2006, 08:22:47 AM
LOL I think the idea of monarchy coming to France is ludicrous! Lunacy! France is the epitome of republicanism, it's Marianne, it's the Marseillaise, it's Madame Guillotine, it's Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette... in my opinion, if Luis "XX" or anyone else thinks truly that he is the rightful heir of Franc.e.. think again ;) It's like the Catholic pretender to the throne of England!
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Bernardino on January 05, 2006, 11:36:20 AM
Even so...Duke Franz has an higher chance  ;D  ;D  ;D
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: frohsdorf on January 08, 2006, 12:27:54 PM
The throne of France is an interesting subject, and a tricky one, since one must go back hundreds of years to the Treaty of Utrecht.   Later, when the Comte de Chambord died in 1883, many Frenchmen turned to the Comte de Paris, grandson of Louis Philippe.  Others turned to Don Juan de Bourbon (Spain), Chambord's brother-in-law, and Head of the House of Bourbon until his own death in 1887. Chambord's widow, Marie Therese of Austria-Este, opposed the Orleanist claim.

Today, this issue is rather moot, as the French throne is almost certainly gone for good.  I am not an Orleanist.  Neither do I support the young Duc d' Anjou.   If one is a strict royalist, Anjou is the product of a morganatic union, since his mother had no royal or noble blood in her.  And how he, himself, has married a commoner.  In the past, this would have disqualified him from the throne (as was the case with the descendents of the Habsburg Franz Ferdinand in Austria.  If he had lived, he would have become Emperor, but his children by Grafin Sophie Chotek(spelling?)  were entirely disqualified).   By the way, the Duc d'Anjou's father died in a tragic skiing accident in the U.S. in 1989----he was nearly beheaded.

On the other hand, the Orleans family has the terrible legacy of the Duc d'Orleans, who voted for the death of Louis XVI, and Louis Philippe, who usurped the throne in 1830.   However, if one is holding to the strict letter of the law according to the 300-year-old Treaty of Utrecht, the current Comte de Paris has the clearest claim to the French throne today.

Since we're discussing thrones and marriages and bloodlines, let's not forget that the current heir of the Spanish throne, the son of King Juan Carlos, married a commoner.   So that royal line has been diluted (actually, it was severely diluted by Isabella II, none of whose children were the offspring of her husband/cousin--who was nicknamed "Fanny" and almost certainly homosexual).
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: umigon on January 09, 2006, 03:38:24 AM
As far as I know, there was no STRICT and OFFICIALLY ESTABLISHED dynastic French law against morganatic marriages (but I may very well be wrong), so Alfonso of Cádiz's marriage to Carmen Martínez-Bordiú y Franco (who by the way is the daughter of a Spanish earl and a Spanish duchess...) would not ban Luis Alfonso from the Succession to the throne of France.


I agree with you on the Orleanist legacy, although I wouldn't say that Louis Philippe usurped the throne. But that's just a matter of opinion.


We don't know if Isabel's children were or not fathered by King Francisco, but, until a DNA test is done on her children's rests, we will never know, so we shouldn't afirm something of which we are not sure!
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: bell_the_cat on January 09, 2006, 01:50:06 PM
Quote
The Bourbon dynasty, when they actually sat on the French throne, did not recognize morganatic unions ( the few that actually existed) and offspring of such were barred from inheriting the crown.  Examples of this are the  children of Louis XIV and Madame de Maintenon.  He married her, legitimized his children by her, and they were members of the royal family---but at no time were they in line for the French throne.  

Also, Luis Alphonso's marriage may be "noble" but it is not "royal", and his father's marriage was definitely not royal, either.   Of course, I'm approaching this from an 18th and 19th century persective, when the definition of "royalty" meant more than it does today.

The issue of Isabella II really belongs under "Spanish Royals", but the fact remains that she was known to have many lovers amongst her bodyguards, etc, and her cousin/husband had to be bribed to return to her side when she was expecting her first child in order to avoid scandal.   "Fanny", according to all existing documentation, letters, and memoirs of the time, was not the father of her children.



Louis had children by Mme de Montespan, but he never married her. He did marry Mme de Maintenon (in "secret"), but had no children with her. I'm not sure if these secret marriages were the same as morganatic marriages in the German speaking world - in any case none of them produced children.

Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: frohsdorf on January 09, 2006, 01:57:22 PM
Yes, you're correct about Montespan.   I do know that Louis XIV managed to "legitimize" his children by Montespan, although they were never married.  My knowledge and interest in French history really begins with the birth of Louis XVI in 1754 and ends with the death of the Comte de Chambord in 1883, so this period is before my time.

At any rate,  this thread pertains to the current claimants to the French throne, none of whom will ever be crowned, so it's all just fodder for a lively discussion---nothing more.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: bell_the_cat on January 10, 2006, 12:52:42 AM
Quote
Yes, you're correct about Montespan.   I do know that Louis XIV managed to "legitimize" his children by Montespan, although they were never married.  My knowledge and interest in French history really begins with the birth of Louis XVI in 1754 and ends with the death of the Comte de Chambord in 1883, so this period is before my time.

At any rate,  this thread pertains to the current claimants to the French throne, none of whom will ever be crowned, so it's all just fodder for a lively discussion---nothing more.


;D Sorry to be so pedantic!

I agree with your last paragraph. I was reading only yesterday about the 10th anniversary of the death of the last king Francois, and his differences of opinion with Madame (Segolène) Royale!
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Paul on January 26, 2006, 10:43:05 AM
The Orleanist claim seems to be the most straight-forward, when you factor in renunciation clauses in treaties and such.

If memory serves, the Orleans family had a moderately good chance of restoration after WWII.
I read somewhere that General DeGaulle considered the idea of a constitutional monarchy. He even entered into talks with the head of the family.

I wish that I could remember where I'd read this. Does anyone know aything about a near miss with an Orleans restoration?

Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Paul on January 26, 2006, 11:11:06 AM
Does anyone know if the supporters of the Bonaparte family maintain a website? If so, what is the URL, please?

Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: carl fraley on April 12, 2006, 04:58:37 PM
When Alfonso's XIII son renouced his rights to the spanish throne even his mother refused to accept his change of heart later.   For example in Brazil when the Princess Regent Isabel's child tried to change his renunciation years later , she would not accept it.

I may be wrong but My view is this.  When King Louis XIV Grandson Phillip acceded the spanish throne he renounced his and all of his descendants rights to the throne of France forever.  Wasn't this a MAJOR part of the Treaty when Phillip acceded to the throne of Spain?  So With 2 renunciations spanning over 400 years, the Duc De Anjou's claims would not be legal now would they?
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: britt.25 on April 14, 2006, 04:38:18 AM
I don´t think that it will ever happen, but I think Charles Napoleon would be a good president for his people. He is second deputy major at Ajaccio and has a lot of other tasks, so he maybe will never be a candidate for an election, but he would never try to establish an empire! His opinions are rather left and a bit socialistic...but for me very positive. He knows about his heritage concerning beeing a chief of the Bonaparte family, but he does not want to represent a "Napoleon"  of our age, he is no Bonapartists at all in this sense. Rather the contrary: When he was running for his elections at Ajaccio, the Bonapartists and the right and conservative people were the onces , who had the critic voices!! His views are modern and very open. I like his personality a lot and this man in general impresses me a lot, I must say. I have read that he also wants to become a member of the European parliament. There are a lot of interesting interviews about him in the internet. Pictures of his family are hardly to find. I had a short contact to him, but it broke. I think he is too busy....
If I was a french man I would support any election of him! ::) ;)
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: frimousse on May 14, 2006, 05:41:28 PM
Prince Henry ( now Comte de Paris) with his 1st wife born Princess Marie-Thérèse of Württemberg and their children Princess Marie (now Princess Gundakar of Liechenstein) John (  Prince Jean of France, Duke of Vendôme) and Prince Eudes.


(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f204/frimousse5/paris.jpg)
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: frimousse on May 14, 2006, 05:49:41 PM
Photography of Prince Jean of France, Duke of Vendôme.
See his website:
http://www.gensdefrance.com

(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f204/frimousse5/jean.jpg)

Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: frimousse on May 14, 2006, 07:04:36 PM
Photography from Point de Vue magazine January 2006

Prince Eudes of France, Duke of Angoulême, his wife born Marie-Liesse de Rohan-Chabot (daughter of Count Louis-Mériadec de Rohan-Chabot and Princess Isabelle de Bauffremont-Courtenay).

Their children Princess Thérèse 2001, Prince Pierre of Orléans 2003

(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f204/frimousse5/eudes.jpg)
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: britt.25 on May 15, 2006, 02:11:35 AM
Very nice pictures, unfortunately the point de Vue magazine is not to get here in Germany...I only bought some old examples at Ebay and they are very good and very interesting ;)
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: BorbonFan on July 10, 2006, 01:47:12 PM
I am an Eastern Orthodox passioned about Christian prophecies as manifestations of the Holy Ghost. Two Christian prophets - St. Martyr and Bishop Methodius of Patara (Olympia) and Nostradamus - appear to announce the restoration of Monarchy in France.

Nostradamus' prophecies must be interpreted in a Christian key, for they herald the second coming of Jesus Christ, which is also their end point. One of them appears to announce the restoration of Monarchy in France:

IV 5
Croix, paix sous vn accomply diuin verbe,
L'Espagne & Gaules seront vnis ensemble,
Grand clade proche, & combat tresacerbe,
Coeur si hardy ne sera qui ne tremble.

Cross, peace, under one the divine word accomplished,
Spain and Gaul will be united together:
Great disaster near, and combat very bitter:
No heart will be so hardy as not to tremble.

Source: http://www.sacred-texts.com/nos/mrg/nosmrg04.htm

The "Cross" ("croix") is a clear symbol of the undivided Church, whose reunification will be "accomplished" ("accomply") most likely through war, as implied by the "peace" ("paix") that follows war. This peace will be brought about through a miraculous "divine" ("diuin") intervention - by the "word" ("verbe") of God.

The nostradamian prophecy is similar to an Eastern Orthodox prophecy of Methodius of Olympia (or Patara/Patares in Greek), an Orthodox saint and bishop, written in the early IV century. It is different from a so-called Pseudo-Methodius prophecy, written much later in the VII century, and completely different in contents. This prophecy announces the fall of the West ("the sun-set land") and especially of Rome ("the city of the seven hills") under the "Ismaelites" (Muslims), its liberation by the "blonde nation" (the Russians) and their subsequent stay in Rome for 15 years, period during which the "dormant snake" (an Orthodox symbol of Catholicism, as opposed to Islam, an active snake) will be crushed, forced to shed its heresies, and to return to Orthodoxy. Then, after these terrible events, the prophecy announces the freeing from under "Ismaelites" (the Muslims) of Byzantium (Constantinople) through the bloodiest war ever, whose victory will be decided in favor of a pan-European Christian coalition under the command of King "Philippe the sixth" by the divine intervention of angelic hosts. They will be conveying Christ's message, shouting out loud, making the earth tremble in a great earthquake, bringing the war to an end for the greater glory of God and of His Christ. After the re-establishment of the freed Eastern Roman Empire (also known as Byzantine) with its capital in Constantinople, the various churches, especially the Catholic one, seeing the great wondrous signs of God manifest in this terrible battle, will return to the unaltered Orthodox faith, restoring the undivided Church of the first millenium.

It is worth noting that St. Methodius' prophecy supports the nostradamian one, not only in what concerns the reunification of the Church accomplished through the great sign of the "divine word" ("diuin verbe"), but also about the fate of France and Spain. In St. Methodius's prophecy, the glorified leader of the pan-Christian coalition is nobody other than King "Philippe the sixth", who cannot be any other but that of either Spain or Belgium, the only two Christian kingdoms with Philippe's in their ruling houses and across their histories. To interpret this unique part of the prophecy - the only name in the prophecy -, the King of Spain is more likely to lead a pan-European coalition than the King of Belgium - a less militarily mighty country and also less likely to be involved in a war against the Muslim invaders by virtue of its position on the map.

If we corroborate the Orthodox prophecy about the glorious King "Philippe the sixth" (of Spain, if I may add) with the nostradamian one announcing the unification of Spain and France, it is very likely that the next King of Spain Philippe VI, currently Prince Felipe of Asturias, will become the King of France, thus restoring the Bourbons back on their ancient Throne. The creation of the Franco-Spanish Kingdom will be around the time of a "great disaster and combat very bitter" according to Nostradamus, a war none other than the one for Byzantium, the bloodiest ever according to St. Methodius' prophecy. Therefore, the glorified hero of the war for Byzantium, the future King Philippe VI of Spain, will have the best moral credit to be entrusted with the Throne of a France, very likely, also victim of the "great disaster". For a Christian-Muslim clash is unlikely to have taken place only in Byzantium, when we witness every day the increasing Islamic unrest and fundamentalism across the Middle East and Western Europe. Both St. Methodius' and Nostradamus' prophecies suggest such a war in the West, the first through an invasion of the "Ismaelites" in the "sun-setting land" and in Rome, the latter through a metaphoric image - "no heart will be so hardy as not to tremble" due to a "great disaster near." With France invaded by the Muslims, King Philippe VI will have the chance to lead the liberating campaigns for both Spain and neighboring France, thus earning himself the moral right to be entrusted with the French Crown.

God bless!
Borbon Fan
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: BorbonFan on August 05, 2006, 10:55:55 PM
The Russian Saint Seraphim of Sarov (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seraphim_of_Sarov) also prophesized the restoration of Monarchy in France (and also Austria, the latter under the rule of Hapsburgs) after a devastating war prophesized as well by St. Martyr Methodius and Nostradamus, war in which Paris will be destroyed and France's population reduced to 17 million people. The restoration of the French Monarchy is clearly implied by France's new capital being moved to the ancient coronation site of Rheims: "Constantinople and Jerusalem will be inhabited by the combined powers of Russia and the others. At the division of Turkey almost all will go to Russia, and Russia with the united forces of many other States will take Vienna, and about 7 million native Viennese will remain under the house of the Hapsburgs, and there the territory of the Austrian empire will be constructed. To France for her love for the Mother of God, the holy Madonna, will be given up to 17 million Frenchmen with its capital in the city of Rheims, while Paris will be completely destroyed…" (Source (http://romanitas.ru/eng/THE%20BOOK%20OF%20THE%20END%207.5X9.25.htm))

God bless!
Borbon Fan
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Dmitry Russian on August 06, 2006, 10:37:08 PM
I do not trust in these predictions. But if France will sometime restore the monarchy, I hope, France will appear under authority of an old and lawful dynasty of Bourbons.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: britt.25 on August 07, 2006, 03:20:56 AM
I find all of this almost impossible to imagine :o :o
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: BorbonFan on August 07, 2006, 10:14:42 PM
I find all of this almost impossible to imagine :o :o

With fundamentalist Islamists threatening all the "infidels," be they Jewish or Christian, to convert them by the force of "jihad," with Iran on its way to get the nuclear bomb, it's not that hard to imagine how all these terrible prophecies announcing massive losses of human lives can become fulfilled in the not so distant future.

After all, the Bible itself suggests that nuclear wars are in store for mankind. The imagery of a nuclear war which will have devastated the land of Israel is quite clearly depicted in a terrifying prophecy given to the Jewish nation by Moise on his deathbed: "Even your children's children will see the troubles that have fallen on the land. They'll see the sicknesses the Lord has brought on it. People who come from countries far away will also see those things. The whole land will be burned up. Nothing but salt and sulfur will be left. Nothing will be planted there. Nothing will grow there. In fact, nothing will even start to grow there. The land will be like Sodom, Gomorrah, Admah and Zeboiim after they were destroyed. The Lord wiped out those cities because he was very angry. All of the nations will ask, "Why has the Lord done this to the land? What could have made him so very angry?" And they will hear the answer, "It's because the people who are living there have broken the covenant of the Lord. He's the God of their parents. He made that covenant with them when he brought them out of Egypt. They went off and worshiped other gods. They bowed down to them. They hadn't known anything about those gods before. The Lord hadn't given those gods to them. "So the Lord's anger burned against the land. He brought on it all of the curses that are written down in this scroll. The Lord's anger blazed out against his people. So he pulled them up out of their land. He threw them into another land. And that's where they are now." The Lord our God keeps certain things hidden. But he makes other things known to us and our children forever. He does it so we can obey all of the words of this law." (Deuteronomy 29, 22-29 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=5&chapter=29&version=76))
 
God bless!
Borbon Fan
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: bell_the_cat on August 09, 2006, 02:36:40 PM
The Russian Saint Seraphim of Sarov (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seraphim_of_Sarov) also prophesized the restoration of Monarchy in France (and also Austria, the latter under the rule of Hapsburgs) after a devastating war prophesized as well by St. Martyr Methodius and Nostradamus, war in which Paris will be destroyed and France's population reduced to 17 million people. The restoration of the French Monarchy is clearly implied by France's new capital being moved to the ancient coronation site of Rheims: "Constantinople and Jerusalem will be inhabited by the combined powers of Russia and the others. At the division of Turkey almost all will go to Russia, and Russia with the united forces of many other States will take Vienna, and about 7 million native Viennese will remain under the house of the Hapsburgs, and there the territory of the Austrian empire will be constructed. To France for her love for the Mother of God, the holy Madonna, will be given up to 17 million Frenchmen with its capital in the city of Rheims, while Paris will be completely destroyed…" (Source (http://romanitas.ru/eng/THE%20BOOK%20OF%20THE%20END%207.5X9.25.htm))

God bless!
Borbon Fan

 :o I know that the 10 million inhabitants of Paris will be more than happy to see their city reduced to rubble, if it means that the Bourbons are going to be restored!  ;)
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: BorbonFan on August 10, 2006, 08:45:13 PM
If one believes the prophecy, then not too many of the 10 million Parisians will be left to see the destruction of their homes...

The prophecy says that Paris will be destroyed "completely." This implies that very few, if any, Parisians will survive. It also says that of France's current population of about 60 million, only "17 million" will be left after the war. That's  about 28%, a percentage of survivors which, if applied to the current population of Paris, indicates that only about 2.8 million Parisians will survive to see the utter destruction of their city.

Also, your remark about the war and the Bourbons is unfair: the war will not be fought to restore the Bourbons, but rather to chase out the Muslim invaders. According to St. Methodius' prophecy, King "Philippe VI" (of Spain, I add) will be the leader of a pan-European coalition of "18 nations" which will chase the Muslims out of Byzantium. For such a coalition to accept him as its leader, Philippe must have greatly remarked himself in the prior battles of the liberation of Western Europe, liberation announced by the same prophecy as preceding that of Byzantium. This implies that Philippe VI will have liberated France as well, for in order to get to liberate the whole of Western Europe, he must start first with Spain's Northern neighbor. So the French will be grateful for his leadership in restoring their freedom and as result will crown him King. The establishment of the new French capital at Rheims after the destruction of Paris, as St. Seraphim prophesizes, suggests clearly the restoration of Monarchy, which corroborated with St. Methodius' prophecy, strongly suggests that the next King of Spain Philippe VI will also be the future King of France.

God bless!
Borbon Fan
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: bell_the_cat on August 11, 2006, 01:16:33 AM
Sorry, i just meant that the (homeless) remaining 25 % would be pleased to have Philippe and Letizia as their King and Queen.  :)

Surely Rheims would have to be rebuilt to make it a worthy capital of western Europe? Currently it is a sad collection of concrete blocks surrounding a nice cathedral.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Dmitry Russian on August 11, 2006, 07:32:25 AM
If in France the monarchy will be restored, I hope, that the throne will belong to an old and lawful royal dynasty.  :D
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: TampaBay on August 12, 2006, 09:57:58 AM
And just what dynasty might this be?


TampaBay
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: BorbonFan on August 12, 2006, 09:49:24 PM
St. Bridget of Sweden confirms the prophecy of St. Methodius of Olympus regarding the great King from the West, who will liberate Byzantium through divine intervention and who then, at the urge of Christ Himself speaking from Heavens through His angelic hosts, according to same St. Methodius, will be crowned Emperor in Santa Sophia: “This most unhappy war shall end when an emperor of Spanish origin will be elected, who will, in a wonderful manner, be victorious through the sign of the Cross. He shall destroy the Jewish and the Mahometan sects: he will restore the church of Santa Sophia, and all the earth shall enjoy peace and prosperity; and new cities will be erected in many places.”

Source: http://www.catholicrevolution.org/st%20bridget.htm

This cannot be any other but the same "Philippe VI" prophesized by St. Methodius -- the next King of Spain and future Emperor of the restored Roman Empire!

God bless!
Borbon Fan
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: bell_the_cat on August 13, 2006, 09:57:26 AM
Just a thought, but could not Methodius' "Philip VI", be a King of Great Britain? The husband of the Queen is a Philip (also of orthodox background), and later monarchs could easily be called Philip in his memory, perhaps starting with the son of Prince William. So Philip VI could reunite Europe say in about two or three hundred years' time. This would at least give the Parisians more of a breathing space!

This wouldn't fit in with the Nostradamus quatrain - but since Nostradamus doesn't give a date the words could apply also (sort of) to:

Philip II's intervention in France in the early 1590s

Philip V's inheritance of the throne of Spain in 1700 and the War of Spanish Succession

The rule of Joseph Bonaparte in Spain (1800s)

Spain's entry into the European Union in the twentieth century!

Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: BorbonFan on August 13, 2006, 10:34:21 AM
Hello, Bell the cat,
Philip is not, as you well noted, a traditional name of British monarchs: none have ever borne this name. To start a trend of naming future monarchs in memory of Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, is something highly unlikely, for a number of reasons. Firstly, I don't think Monarchy will last in England long enough for we to be able to speak of a sixth King Philip of the UK. The liberal media of Rupert Murdoch --- about 1/3 of Britain's press --, who is an avowed Republican as we all know from his anti-monarchy campaign in Australia, is not missing any occasion to rip on the royals -- for good or mostly bad reasons -- and, worse, to slander them. By the Chinese water drop method, little by little, the trust of the masses in the Monarchy is being successfully corroded: the polls show still high, but clearly declining percentages of public support for the British Monarchy. I can see a not-so-distant date in the future when the British Monarchy might be overturned (something which is alluded to in some prophecies). Secondly, it is completely unusual if not totally unheard of (and understandably so, with so few past Queens of England/UK) for a monarch to be named in memory of a Prince Consort. Thirdly, it's even less likely with such a gaffeur as the Duke of Edinburgh, unpleasantly depicted in many British movies and the UK press. So the chances of having a future King Philip VI of the UK are, IMHO, almost nil.
God bless!
Borbon Fan
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: bell_the_cat on August 13, 2006, 12:25:36 PM

 :)

Well, readers of the Windsor threads will have noticed a marked upturn in the British royal family's public approval ratings during the last year or so - so maybe they're not down and out yet!

In fact there is a tradition of naming monarchs after consorts. Both Edward VII, and George VI were named Albert (though in the event neither chose to use this name as their title, contrary to Queen Victoria's wish). Edward VII's eldest son (the Duke of Clarence) was also an Albert. Queen Anne's son (the Duke of Gloucester) was named after William III, her sister's husband - she also had a baby George named after her own husband, who died in infancy.

Even The Prince of Wales has Philip among his names (Charles Philip Arthur George) - and he could well surprise us by choosing to be Philip I ! The current opinion is that he is going to go for George though. He would be the second Philip to hold the title of the King of England, as Philip of Spain enjoyed this as the result of his marriage to Mary Tudor (1554-1558).



I personally quite enjoy the Duke's sense of humour.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Eddie_uk on August 13, 2006, 12:39:14 PM

I personally quite enjoy the Duke's sense of humour.

Yes same here, he's a product of his generation! All this "PC" nonsense is to much! I would love to know his opinions on those dear muslims  ;D
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: BorbonFan on August 13, 2006, 01:00:08 PM
I, too, enjoy his sense of humor. The liberal (anti-christian, anti-monarchical) elites, though, not. Hence he "PC" censorship and almost constant bad light in which Prince Philip and his humor are cast in the liberal media.

Regardless, though, even if there were to be a King Philip VI of the UK, nothing else in the prophecies concerning Byzantium and the Great Monarch who will free it, fits the picture. A Spanish Philip VI fits best.

God bless!
Borbon Fan
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: bell_the_cat on August 13, 2006, 04:03:18 PM

Yes same here, he's a product of his generation! All this "PC" nonsense is to much! I would love to know his opinions on those dear muslims  ;D

I don't believe he has anything against muslims. It is fools that he can't stand!

Back to topic. How do we know that St Methodius meant a Spanish king? St Birgitta said " of spanish origin", but that seems to me a very roundabout way of saying the King of Spain! Maybe a British Philip of Spanish descent?
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: BorbonFan on August 13, 2006, 04:29:58 PM
Back to topic. How do we know that St Methodius meant a Spanish king? St Birgitta said " of spanish origin", but that seems to me a very roundabout way of saying the King of Spain! Maybe a British Philip of Spanish descent?

St. Bridget's prophecy speaks of the King's Spanish "origin", not "ancestry," nor "descent." Origin means parents or birthplace -- this seems to rule out a British King. If she had said "ancestry" or "descent", then it would have allowed for the possibility of a British King with Spanish parent or ancestors.
 
Here is the relevant part of St. Methodius' prophecy, translated from Romanian (http://www.sfaturiortodoxe.ro/sfarsitul-omului.htm): "Then the ox will cry, the dry hills will weep. And the horses will stop. And a voice from Heaven will be heard saying: "Stop! Stop! Peace be unto you! Enough!" This victory will be given for the rebelious and disobedient ones. And He will say to them: "Come to the right-side of the city. There you shall find a man standing, with much chagrin, leaning against two pillars, wiping off his sweat off his coat. He will have a white beard, a righteous man, merciful, in simple outfit, meek. Middle-aged. And in the middle of his right leg he will have a birthmark. " And an angelic voice will proclaim: "Take him and crown him emperor!" And four lifegiving Angels will take him to the Lord's Holy and great cathedral Sofia,  and will crown him Emperor, and will give him a sword saying: "Take heart and strength, and conquer your enemies!" And taking the sword from the Angels, he will fight off the Ismaelitans, the Ethiopians, the Europeans, the Tatars, and the other nations. And he will divide the Ismaelitans up in three parts: he will cleave one up by sword, the second he will baptize, and the third he will chase with great angst all the way to the Single Tree (Mecca). And returning from the battle, all the treasures of the world will be given over to him, and nobody will be poor."

King Felipe VI is indeed a "righteous" man, a meek man, as any truly God-fearing man ought to be. He is known for his conservative Catholic views expressed during his masters studies at Georgetown University. What's more astounding, the future King of Spain does "lean against two pillars." These two are clearly depicted in his royal coat of arms (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Escudo_de_Espa%C3%B1a.svg), pillars on which his crown rests. Also, his kingdom itself "leans against two pillars," geographically and metaphorically speaking: the pillars of Hercules -- the Gibraltar. Thus, there are many, many signs that King Felipe VI of Spain could be, indeed, the chosen one! However, his age appears to rule him out: in 2034, Felipe will be about 65, not a "middle aged man" anymore... Yet at that age he would most certainly be able to have a "white beard," not an impossible thing given that he has briefly grown a beard right after his marriage. For the rest of my argument as to why he would be a Spanish King, please, see my initial message on this topic.

From both St. Methodius' and St. Bridget's prophecies it's quite clear that the Great Monarch will be the King of Spain, who, given his name of "Philip VI", it's almost sure will be Prince Felipe of Asturias. 

God bless!
Borbon Fan
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: WhiteEagle on August 13, 2006, 08:50:32 PM
From both St. Methodius' and St. Bridget's prophecies it's quite clear that the Great Monarch will be the King of Spain, who, given his name of "Philip VI", it's almost sure will be Prince Felipe of Asturias.

Yes, and we can add Brother John of the Cleft Rock's prophecies to that, as well.  He wrote,

"The White Eagle (Great Monarch), by order of the Archangel Michael, will drive the crescent from Europe where none but Christians will remain - he himself will rule from Constantinople."

This prophecy shows that the man who liberates Europe will be one and the same man who sits upon the throne of Byzantium. 

A physical description of this Great Monarch is given by David Poreaus, who lived in the 17th century,

"The Great Monarch will be of French descent, large forehead, large dark eyes, light brown wavy hair, and an eagle nose.  He will crush the enemies of the Pope and will conquer the East."

These two prophecies seem to confirm that Crown Prince Felipe (Felipe VI) will indeed be the Great Monarch.

God bless.

Adam

Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: BorbonFan on August 13, 2006, 09:02:18 PM
Thank you very much, Adam!
God bless!
Borbon Fan
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: bell_the_cat on August 14, 2006, 01:27:58 AM
 Er, who said anything about 2034?  ??? (Sorry to be so slow!)

You must be very young if you think 65 rules you out for being middle aged!

What about baby Leonor? Will she get to inherit the throne of Byzantium? This will mean the end of the Bourbon dynasty (unless she marries another Bourbon). If she doesn't it could well mean a split betweenSpain and Byzantium!
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Eddie_uk on August 14, 2006, 02:27:37 AM
I don't believe he has anything against muslims. It is fools that he can't stand!


Very true!  ;D ;D
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Dmitry Russian on August 14, 2006, 07:55:35 AM
Serafim Sarovsky still also has predicted, that Bonaparte's house will receive Corsica, Sardinia and Savoy.  ;D
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: BorbonFan on August 14, 2006, 05:53:57 PM
Er, who said anything about 2034?  ??? (Sorry to be so slow!)

Sorry I forgot to mention this explanation posted on another thread. 2033 AD is approximately the year when, according to a prophecy of the Byzantine Emperor Leo VI the Wise (886 - 912 AD), Byzantium will be liberated: "In six centuries minus about twenty years you will become powerful again" says Leo. Does this sentence predict the return of the glory of Byzantium? Constantinople fell in 1453. If we add 580 years to this date (600-20=580), we get 1453 + 580 = 2033 A.D. The "about" allows for a small variation of the actual year, that's why I say the liberation of Byzantium will have occured by about 2033 AD.

A similar time frame around year 2033 AD is indicated by another prophecy of the Orthodox monk Agathanghelos (13th century). He is partially quoted in the Romanian Church-sanctioned book I am using, which gives him an official status of a true holy man, thereby recognizing his prophecy as divinely inspired: "The terrible century shall forward the golden-tenth number. Then honey and milk will flow in everything, the sea storms shall cease, and for full fifty years shall peace reign. Truth shall triumph, and the sky shall rejoice in true glory. The Orthodox Faith shall be uplifted, and shall spring from East to West in order to be blessed and praised. The barbarians shall be overcome with fright and, wholly trembling, shall headlong flee speedily, abandoning the world's metropolis (Constantinople), then God shall be glorified, and man shall see the works of His omnipotence. Let it be so, and it shall be so, Amen."

A plausible interpretation could be that the length of time between the beginning of either WWI (1914) or the Bolshevik Revolution (1917), which inaugurated a "terrible century" of communist persecutions for the Orthodox Church, and the end of the war fought for the liberation of Europe and then of Byzantium, is the meaning of the "terrible century". Agathanghelos clearly indicates that after the "golden tenth" number is completed, events will come to pass that will lead to peace, the spread of a unified Apostolic Christianity, and the defeat of the barbarians (Muslims), who will flee Europe. The "golden tenth" number is, in my opinion, the holy number 12 (since the other holy number of 7 does not get a plausible result) related to the number 10. By multiplying these numbers we get 12 x 10 = 120. With either 1914 or 1917 AD as the start of the "terrible century" of persecutions of the Church, we get the predicted date to be 1914 or 1917 + 120 years = 2034 or 2037 A.D.

Therefore, the liberation of Byzantium will likely have taken place by year 2034-2037 AD according to Agathanghelos, a time frame in agreement with Leo VI's prophecy of approximately 2033 AD.

God bless!
Borbon Fan
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: bell_the_cat on August 14, 2006, 06:18:07 PM
 Gasp!  :o

The golden number thing sounds a bit complicated to me!

Back to Leo. How do we know he was talking about the fall of Constantinople? I don't think it is possible to speak of Byzantium as "powerful" after 1204. So 1204 + 580 = 1784 ( the date that Catherine II conquered the Crimea).

Surely the "world's metropolis" would have meant Jerusalem - for Christians the most important city in the world. Mediaeval maps showed Jerusalem at the cente of the world. So maybe Leo was talking about a time when Jerusalem would be regained for Christianity.



Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: BorbonFan on August 14, 2006, 07:06:44 PM
In 1453 Byzantium was certainly more powerful than it had been in 1204 as it had managed to recover a bit from the Catholic crusaders who had looted it in 1204, having stripped it off of absolutely everything of value. So to 1453, not 1204, one must add the "about 580 years" announced by Leo VI, thus getting approximately 2033 AD the year when Byzantium will once again be glorious.

As to the the "golden tenth" of Agathanghelos, there are only two possibilities for a "golden" (i.e. divine) number: either 12 (12 Apostles, 12 stars crowning the Virgin Mary in the Apocalypse) or 7 (the 7 spirits of God, 7 seals, 7 churches, 7 angels, 7 horns, 7 lamps all mentioned in the Apocalypse, the 7 days of the creation from Genesis, etc.). So the golden tenth can be either 12 x 10 = 120 years or 7 x 10 = 70 years. The "terrible century" is clearly that of the Bolshevik Communist massacres and persecutions, inagurated in 1914 or rather 1917, century whose Christian victims greatly surpassed in numbers those of any pervious persecutions of the Church by the Muslims or the Tatars. Therefore, to the beginning of this "terrile century" of Communism (either 1914 or rather 1917) one must add the "golden tenth". If we add 70, we get 1984 or 1987 as the liberation date for Byzantium - clearly not a valid interpretation. Therefore, the "golden tenth" cannot be but 120. Thus, 120 + 1914 or 1917 = 2034 or 2037 AD.

Also, to the Greek monk Agathanghelos, "the world's metropolis" in the XIII century when he lived, was the capital of Christianity, Orthodox Christianity: Constantinople.

God bless!
Borbon Fan 
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: bell_the_cat on August 16, 2006, 05:17:47 PM
Byzantium was as powerless in 1452 as it was in 1204. I still don't think one can talk of a powerful Byzantium after the middle of the twelfth century.  :)

And why is the twentieth century (after 1945) the terrible century? All centuries have their ups and downs. I find it particularly tendentious that you choose to begin the century in 1914 - why?

For Greeks the first world war began in 1912 (just one example).

I'm beginning to think the Turks might be well advised to sty out of the European Union, though! You are very persuasive!  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: BorbonFan on August 16, 2006, 07:20:26 PM
Byzantium was as powerless in 1452 as it was in 1204. I still don't think one can talk of a powerful Byzantium after the middle of the twelfth century.  :)

And why is the twentieth century (after 1945) the terrible century? All centuries have their ups and downs. I find it particularly tendentious that you choose to begin the century in 1914 - why?

For Greeks the first world war began in 1912 (just one example).

I'm beginning to think the Turks might be well advised to sty out of the European Union, though! You are very persuasive!  ;D ;D ;D

I bet they didn't teach you or your Western friends this part of history in your Western history textbooks. The Catholics and their Protestant offshoots have had no interest in putting themselves in a bad light over the horrible backstabbing of their Orthodox brethren which they had committed in 1202 and 1204. No valuables (gold, precious stones, gold- and silver-plated icons, relics, and liturgical objects, accumulated over 900 years of the city's existence as imperial capital) were left in Constantinople in 1204. They had all been stolen by the Catholic crusaders and taken to their homes in Western Europe, especially to Venice (e.g. the four horses topping St. Mark's cathedral). Only recently the Catholics started admitting the horrible dimensions of the carnage and looting they had committed in 1204 in Byzantium. The following is surprisingly a quote from the Catholic Encyclopedia (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04301a.htm) itself: " After several onslaughts the city was taken (12 and 13 April, 1204) amid scenes of great cruelty; the slaughter was followed by an unbridled plunder of the countless treasures heaped up during so many centuries by the Byzantine emperors. The holy relics especially excited the covetousness of the Latin clerics; Villehardouin asserts that there were but few cities in the West that received no sacred booty from this pillage. The official booty alone, according to the same historian, amounted to about eleven millions of dollars whose purchasing power was then of course much greater than at this day."

After Constantinople is liberated in 1261 by Michael VIII Paleologos, the freed Empire has almost 2 centuries left to regain its strength, so that by 1453 Byzantium had accumulated enough wealth - more than the absolute zero it had been left with in 1204. Byzantium was, thus, richer and, therefore, more powerful in 1453 than in 1204. Therefore, 1453 and not 1204 is the baseline for Leo's prophecy of "about 580 years".

That the glory of Byzantium in 1453 does not compare to that of its first centuries of existence is an obvious thing. However, in 1453 Byzantium was still glorious enough to be coveted by Mohamed II. I would personally be content to have again a free Byzantium with as little as glory as it had at its fall in 1453.

You have been here on this forum long enough to know by now that in the 20th century the Orthodox Churches of Russia and Eastern Europe accumulated far more victims and martyrs, by the millions, than it had in all of the previous centuries of any - especially Muslim - persecutions. The Bolsheviks were full of hatred towards all religions, especially Christianity, killing many hundreds of thousands of priests and monks in the early stages of the Revolution, then deporting to the Gulag  -the concentration camps in Siberia - millions of those who opposed their rule, who died there in subhuman conditions comparable, if not worse, to those of the Nazi camps. The Muslim rulers at least respected the conquered "peoples of the Book" - Jews, Christians - enough to keep them alive, at least to levy taxes and live off of them. That's why the "terrible century" cannot be - at least from the history of the Church so far - any other but the one inaugurated by the anti-Christian Bolshevik Revolution. Whether one chooses 1914 or 1917 as its beginning in interpreting Agathanghelos' prophecy, it doesn't matter too much, as either way 2034 or 2037 both corroborate well with "about 2033" - the year prophesized by Leo VI.

However, I see no reason as to why we should choose instead 1912 - the year of the Greco-Turkish war - since Greece was not at all a victim of this "terrible century" of Bolshevik and Communist anti-Christian massacres and persecutions. Even if we accept 1912 as the beginning, the estimation of Agathanghelos' prophecy comes out to be 120 + 1912 = 2032 - close enough to the "about 2033" year of Leo VI's prophecy.

Hope this helps clarify my interpretations.

God bless!
Borbon Fan
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: bell_the_cat on August 17, 2006, 01:34:49 AM
Of course they teach about 1204 in Western history books! Every tourist who goes to Venice is told about the looting of Constantinople. That is why I am saying it was the end of the period in which Byzantium was a great power. The Empire recovered a bit in the 14th C (it was maybe as big as modern Greece, but a patchwork of different territories). After 1380 it wasn't much more than the immediate vicinity of Constantinople and a few outposts in Greece. In 1453 even this remnant vanished altogether.

It wasn't the end of the line for Constantinople which in the sixteenth century was the capital of a great Empire (one which made a great contribution to world civilisation, but which from your perspective may have been a "bad" thing). Today it is the most populous city on the continent of Europe.

I still don't see why Agathangelos should have been bothered by Communism in the XX century, being a Greek in the XIII century! I'm sure every generation thinks that these prophesies refer to their own time- they select the bits they think apply to them and do the maths accordingly. That is what you appear to have done.

I have been on this forum long enough to know that the Russian orthodox church was persecuted by the Tsars as well  (at least those bits who disagreed with them - see Ivan the Terrible or Peter the Great). Why Agathangelos should have been talking about the Russian Orthodox church is beyond me!
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Silja on August 17, 2006, 08:25:08 AM
The Orleanist claim seems to be the most straight-forward, when you factor in renunciation clauses in treaties and such.

If memory serves, the Orleans family had a moderately good chance of restoration after WWII.
I read somewhere that General DeGaulle considered the idea of a constitutional monarchy. He even entered into talks with the head of the family.

I wish that I could remember where I'd read this. Does anyone know aything about a near miss with an Orleans restoration?



Deborah Cadbury mentions this in her The Lost King of France.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: BorbonFan on August 17, 2006, 04:56:37 PM
I still don't see why Agathangelos should have been bothered by Communism in the XX century, being a Greek in the XIII century! I'm sure every generation thinks that these prophesies refer to their own time- they select the bits they think apply to them and do the maths accordingly. That is what you appear to have done.

I have been on this forum long enough to know that the Russian orthodox church was persecuted by the Tsars as well  (at least those bits who disagreed with them - see Ivan the Terrible or Peter the Great). Why Agathangelos should have been talking about the Russian Orthodox church is beyond me!

First of all, I am pleasantly surprised to hear that the truth about 1204 is finally being taught in the Western history classes. 

Secondly, Agathanghelos prophesized about the Orthodox Church on the whole, not just the Russian part of it, since - and this is hard for non-Orthodox to comprehend - in spite of our separate national leaderships, all national Orthodox churches belong to the same Orthodox Church. That Agathanghelos meant the whole Orthodox Church under Communist domination was clear in my previous posting: "in the 20th century the Orthodox Churches of Russia and Eastern Europe accumulated far more victims and martyrs, by the millions, than it had in all of the previous centuries of any - especially Muslim - persecutions. (...) That's why the "terrible century" cannot be - at least from the history of the Church so far - any other but the one inaugurated by the anti-Christian Bolshevik Revolution."

While the Tsars did usurp the leadership of the Church and did persecute and even kill those opposing their religious measures, the tsarist victims were infinitely fewer than the millions of Christians who were executed by the Bolsheviks or died in the subhuman conditions of the Gulag and of the various national Communist prisons and camps of Eastern Europe and Asia.

God bless!
Borbon Fan
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: BorbonFan on September 03, 2006, 11:03:45 AM
There are subtle signs that these prophecies are starting to become reality. For more about these signs, please, see "Spanish Royal Family. Summer 2006." (http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php/topic,7680.0.html)

God bless!
Borbon Fan
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: bell_the_cat on September 03, 2006, 12:15:08 PM
There are subtle signs that these prophecies are starting to become reality. For more about these signs, please, see "Spanish Royal Family. Summer 2006." (http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php/topic,7680.0.html)

God bless!
Borbon Fan

Sorry, these signs were so subtle that I missed them!

plese explain.... will Leonor be Empress of Byzantium or not!!
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Yseult on September 03, 2006, 12:26:24 PM
There are subtle signs that these prophecies are starting to become reality. For more about these signs, please, see "Spanish Royal Family. Summer 2006." (http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php/topic,7680.0.html)

God bless!
Borbon Fan

Sorry, these signs were so subtle that I missed them!

plese explain.... will Leonor be Empress of Byzantium or not!!

 :o
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: BorbonFan on September 03, 2006, 12:41:47 PM
There are subtle signs that these prophecies are starting to become reality. For more about these signs, please, see "Spanish Royal Family. Summer 2006." (http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php/topic,7680.0.html)

God bless!
Borbon Fan

Sorry, these signs were so subtle that I missed them!

plese explain.... will Leonor be Empress of Byzantium or not!!

The signs are - if you read on down the thread - the stronger and stronger friendship between two nations currently on opposite sides of the military barricade represented by NATO: Spain and Russia. "Filip VI" and "the blonde nation" have begun their prophetic cooperation.

Sorry to disappoint you, though: according to St. Methodius, "Filip VI" will have sons who will inherit the throne. Leonor will not become queen or empress.

God bless!
Borbon Fan
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Yseult on September 03, 2006, 01:03:35 PM
Ohhhh...St Methodious never imagine that spanish parlament could change a Constitution aproved on 1975 to guarantee that the first born baby of a royal couple will reign? Sorry, but president Zapatero has announced that he hoped to began the negotiations to a constitutional reform this autumn ;)

So, the spanish people think that our little cute princess will be someday our queen.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: BorbonFan on September 03, 2006, 01:27:24 PM
Ohhhh...St Methodious never imagine that spanish parlament could change a Constitution aproved on 1975 to guarantee that the first born baby of a royal couple will reign? Sorry, but president Zapatero has announced that he hoped to began the negotiations to a constitutional reform this autumn ;)

So, the spanish people think that our little cute princess will be someday our queen.

Between the word of a saintly man of God, a holy martyr of Christ, and that of a secularized people, who abandoned the sanctity of marriage and supports the anti-christian equality of men and women, I bet my money on the man of God.

God bless!
Borbon Fan
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Empress_Catherine on September 05, 2006, 12:11:30 PM
I knew something like this would happen. I have been talking to a physhic and he is saying that Letizia is out of the picture. and another woman will bear his sons. I can believe that" I have great and high hopes for this man. I just hope he is not the Antichrist!!!! Did the saints say anything about his wife and where she comes from
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: BorbonFan on September 05, 2006, 05:04:52 PM
I have been talking to a physhic and he is saying that(...).

The Bible advises us not to trust in fortunetellers or witches. These work with the devil's help. Should you need advice for the future, you could use the help of holy Orthodox monks who live their entire lives in prayer and total dedication to the Lord.

God bless!
Borbon Fan
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: bell_the_cat on September 06, 2006, 01:48:35 AM
So Letizia stays! (breathes a huge sigh of relief).  ;D
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: BorbonFan on September 06, 2006, 10:48:04 PM
So Letizia stays! (breathes a huge sigh of relief).  ;D

Only if she manages to overcome the anorexia from which she is alleged to suffer at least since her student days spent in Mexico. Here is a Google-translated Mexican article on the issue (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lasalud.com.mx%2Findex.php%3Fid%3D534&langpair=es%7Cen&hl=es&ie=UTF8). If left untreated, anorexia may kill her, besides preventing her from having another baby, the baby boy expected by the Royal Family.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Yseult on September 07, 2006, 02:20:25 AM
So Letizia stays! (breathes a huge sigh of relief).  ;D

If left untreated, anorexia may kill her, besides preventing her from having another baby, the baby boy expected by the Royal Family.

BorbonFran...the Royal Family is not expecting a baby boy. The king and the queen of Spain are waiting, as the prince of Asturias, the constitutional reform which will made Leonor the heiress of the crown after her father.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: BorbonFan on September 07, 2006, 09:56:19 AM
King Juan Carlos is not pleased with the birth of a girl. Of course he cannot speak publicly because of political correctness and the massive secularization of Spain, which introduced the anti-christian idea of gender equality, but the photos of him and the newborn speak louder than any words. Here are a couple of photos from Leonor's christening:

(http://www.casareal.es/actos/fotos/012006/1137247919871.jpg)

(http://www.casareal.es/actos/fotos/012006/1137248353947.jpg)
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Prince_Lieven on September 07, 2006, 10:24:39 AM
Hasn't this thread deviated slightly from topic?  ::)
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Kimberly on September 07, 2006, 10:50:51 AM
BorbonFan wrote;

King Juan Carlos is not pleased with the birth of a girl. Of course he cannot speak publicly because of political correctness and the massive secularization of Spain, which introduced the anti-christian idea of gender equality, but the photos of him and the newborn speak louder than any words. Here are a couple of photos from Leonor's christening:

Have you seen the photo of him gazing adoringly at her over on the Iberian thread??
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: BorbonFan on September 07, 2006, 11:19:05 AM
Hasn't this thread deviated slightly from topic?  ::)

Slightly, yes. However, since the prophecies announce the restoration of Monarchy in France and Europe as a resurrected Roman Empire under "Filip VI" -- the next King of Spain, currently Prince of Asturias -- as well as his male successor to the imperial throne (cf. St. Methodius), I think a little debate about the Bourbon heirs isn't too off-topic. Please, let me know if you think otherwise and I'll stop with my speculations.

@ Kimberly: Yes, I have seen the photo. It shows that grandfather Juan Carlos surely loves his granddaughter Leonor. However, King Juan Carlos I of Spain is surely displeased with the birth of a female heir to the throne, as the official baptism photos show. Here is another such photo:

(http://www.casareal.es/actos/fotos/012006/1137248277011.jpg)

God bless!
Borbon Fan
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Kimberly on September 07, 2006, 12:14:03 PM
Looks like he has a touch of indigestion to me  ;D ;D
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: BorbonFan on September 07, 2006, 12:28:25 PM
Looks like he has a touch of indigestion to me  ;D ;D
Possibly. The thought of a female heir must have caused him the indigestion.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Kimberly on September 07, 2006, 12:32:45 PM
Touche BorbonFan :-*
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: bell_the_cat on September 11, 2006, 01:47:24 AM
 ;D ;D ;D

Yes, also well done BF for defending your position so cleverly!
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: BorbonFan on September 15, 2006, 06:27:08 PM
Judging by the reaction full of rage of the Islamic world, this papal statement  (http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0915/dailyUpdate.html) may very well prove to be the trigger of hard to believe events described in the above prophecies.
God bless!
Borbon Fan
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: BorbonFan on September 16, 2006, 09:21:26 PM
Two Google-translated articles about a Spanish pretender to the French Throne, Don Luis Alfonso de Borbon, named by the French Legitimists as King Louis XX of France:
1. the first (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.elsemanaldigital.com%2Farts%2F52671.asp%3Ftt%3D&langpair=es%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools) about the bad relations of Luis with his mother, Carmen Martinez-Bordiu, grand-daughter of General Francisco Franco.
2. the second (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.elsemanaldigital.com%2Farts%2F49888.asp%3Ftt%3D&langpair=es%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools) about the bad relations between Don Luis and King Juan Carlos due to their claims to the French Throne, as narrated by Luis' grand-mother Emanuela de Dampierre.

 
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: BorbonFan on September 17, 2006, 01:48:56 PM
For those to come during the last days of this world
 
At about year seven thousand from the Creation, the Ismaelitans and Agareans, those descending from Hagar and Ishmael (who are Turks and Tatars), will surround the walls of Byzantium (Constantinople) and rally all their relatives in the city on the seven hills. Woe, how much suffering there will be, when the crowds of people will surround you and take possession of you as of a nothing! And the beautiful walls will fall as a rotten fruit and the child (meaning Ishmael) will tread on you. And he will lay his scepter on you and you shall not stay in it and he shall lay his hands on God's Holy Altars. And the holy ones he will not receive, but will give them over to the sons of perdition; and afterwards the dormant snake will stand up and beat the child, and his imperial coat putting it on will glorify itself with good tidings. And the sons of perdition strengthening the war will turn their faces towards the sun setting lands. And woe to thee, city on the seven hills! And in this way they will give the dormant snake a righteous death. And the blonde nation will rule the city on the seven hills for fifteen years; and many will strike her and eat out of her for the victory of the holy things.
 
And in the east three caretakers will rule and in the west a certain caretaker (Germany) and together with him seven wolves as wild (that is seven powers) will stand up (by wolves it is understood victorious nations). And they will defeat the Ismaelitans and chase them all the way to the colony, which is the site of the resettlement. And all those nations there, obedient to their faith, will be troubled. And they will plot in a hurry and furiously and will split up. The first part will spend the winter at Ephesus, the second at Magulini, the third at the end of the seaboard at Pergamon (near Smyrne), and the fourth at Bithynia. And many ships will line the waters and sail them. And then will be troubled the nations that reside in the angles of the maritime Island and Filip the sixth with 18 nations will stand up and gather in Constantinople and start a war like never before. And they will be running down the streets of the city and much bloodshedding will be done, so much that it will run like water springs. And the sea will be troubled all the way down to the bottom.
 
Then the ox will cry, the dry hill (Xerolophos) will weep. And the horses will stop. And a voice from Heaven will be heard saying: "Stop! Stop! Peace be unto you! Enough!" This victory will be given for the rebellious and disobedient ones. And He will say to them: "Come to the right side of the city. There you shall find a man standing, with much chagrin, leaning against two pillars (columns), wiping off the sweat off his coat. He will have a white beard, be a righteous man, merciful, in simple outfit and meek, of middle-age, who in the midst of his right leg will have a birthmark." And an angelic voice will proclaim: "Take him and crown him emperor!" And four life-giving angels will take him to the Lord's Holy and great cathedral Sofia, and will crown him Emperor, and will give him a sword saying: "Take heart and strength and conquer your enemies!" And taking the sword from the angels, he will fight off the Ismaelitans, the Ethiopians, the Europeans, the Tatars, and the other nations. And he will divide the Ismaelitans up in three parts: he will cleave one up by sword, the second he will baptize, and the third he will chase with great fury all the way to the single tree (the red apple tree). And returning from the battle, all the treasures of the world will be given over to him, and nobody will be poor and the land will bear harvests hundredfold. And from the war weapons they will make ploughs and sickles. And he will reign 15 years. And after his death another one will rule 11 years. And he will die before his time by going to Jerusalem where God's Kingdom is. And after him his four sons will reign, the first will reign in Rome, the second in Alexandria, the third in Thessaloniki, and the fourth in Constantinople. And these warring with each other will draft the priests and the monks in the armies and none of them will save themselves (for all of them will perish in war).
 
And without a worthy man left to be crowned emperor over the earth, a sinful shameless woman will reign. And she will defile the Holy Churches and Chalices of God. And standing in the middle of Constantinople she will preach, saying out loud: "Who is God besides me and who will oppose my empire?" And suddenly the Constantinople will tremble and will sink altogether to perdition and only the dry hills will be seen. And sailor passing through Constantinople will say: "Here was the famed Constantinople praised in the entire world!" And so another one will reign in Thessaloniki for a short while, after which it, too, shall sink and then Smyrne and Cyprus shall sink also under the sea in a storm. [to be continued]
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: BorbonFan on September 17, 2006, 01:51:36 PM
And then the Antichrist will reign who will perform wondrous and strange magic, so many that many shall be led astray from the true faith and if he could even the chosen ones. And he will exalt and praise the Jews and will uproot God's churches and turn them into pagan temples. And there shall be famine and plague throughout the entire world. And the waters will dry up, the rivers and the lakes will dry up and the rain will not grow harvests on earth. And the much cursed one will rule three and a half years.

And then the year shall pass like the month and the month like the week and the week like the day and the day like the hour and the hour like the minute, for the sake of God's chosen servants. And at the end of the three and a half years, God will rain fire over the earth and will burn it three cubits deep. Then the earth shall cry before his God and Maker, saying: "I am clean before Thee, o Lord, and there is no fault within me." Then the sky like a scroll shall roll up and the angels shall blow the trumpets and at their voices the dead shall resurrect. And the righteous ones shall sit at the right hand of the Heavenly King, while the sinners at His left. And the righteous ones shall inherit the heavenly rewards, while the sinners the eternal toils of the everlasting fire and of the sleepless worm, together with the Antichrist's servants who had deceived them.
 
And may He make us worthy of the eternal rewards, which God prepared for those who love Him, Whose glory, honor, and worship are for ever and ever. Amen.

Links to the Romanian sources of the prophecy: source 1 (http://www.sfaturiortodoxe.ro/sfarsitul-omului.htm) and source 2 (http://www.orthodoxphotos.com/readings/profetii/metodie.shtml).

God bless!
Borbon Fan
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: BorbonFan on September 17, 2006, 04:47:04 PM
The interpolations in brackets belong to the monk scribes who copied the manuscript time after time. Obviously, some of these interpolations have not been marked anylonger as such, becoming part of the prophetic text. For instance, while in the beginning the prophecy talks of "Byzantium," later on this is replaced by "Constantinople," a city not yet founded nor named as such at the time of the prophecy (278 AD).

Despite these minor interpolations and even rewording of some ancient terms so as to bring the text up to date (the Tatars were not known as such in 278 AD, but had a different name), the prophetic text strikes us by its central human figure - the King "Filip VI." The description of his character as well as coat of arms are very transparent and fit those of the next King of Spain Felipe VI, as I mentioned earlier.

God bless!
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Kimberly on September 17, 2006, 04:54:38 PM
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: BorbonFan on September 17, 2006, 04:57:42 PM
@ I'm sorry for you, Kimberly, but your anti-Christian feminist ideals of a Queen Leonor will be dashed to pieces by the son to be born to Felipe, as the prophecy foretells when it speaks of his male successor, thank God!
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Kimberly on September 17, 2006, 05:00:03 PM
Will I have time to do my shopping?
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Prince_Lieven on September 17, 2006, 05:02:02 PM
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah

Seconded.  ;D ;D
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: BorbonFan on September 17, 2006, 05:03:01 PM
Will I have time to do my shopping?

Only if your future Muslim husband - one of the many Muslims who are foretold to invade Western Europe and presumably take the women prisoners for wifes - allows you to.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Prince_Lieven on September 17, 2006, 05:06:12 PM
That's too much. BourbonFan, you have made it clear that you believe these prophecies. However, other posters have made it perfectly clear that they think it's a load of twaddle - I don't see what else there is to discuss.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Kimberly on September 17, 2006, 05:09:16 PM
If he has got a car, will he be able to take me to Tesco's ?
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: BorbonFan on September 17, 2006, 05:10:48 PM
That's too much. BourbonFan, you have made it clear that you believe these prophecies. However, other posters have made it perfectly clear that they think it's a load of twaddle - I don't see what else there is to discuss.

There is no serious discussion here, "thanks" to Kimberly's replies, only some gentle poking fun at each other. Is gentle fun banned on APB?
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: BorbonFan on September 17, 2006, 05:12:02 PM
If he has got a car, will he be able to take me to Tesco's ?

Perhaps. But only if you wear the chador in public. No other man besides him is allowed to enjoy your beauty...
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Prince_Lieven on September 17, 2006, 05:12:59 PM
That's too much. BourbonFan, you have made it clear that you believe these prophecies. However, other posters have made it perfectly clear that they think it's a load of twaddle - I don't see what else there is to discuss.

There is no serious discussion here, "thanks" to Kimberly's replies, only some gentle poking fun at each other. Is gentle fun banned on APB?

Not at all - it's usually denoted by a smilie though. Perhaps I'm just unused to the idea of you making posts with the sole idea of of 'gentle poking fun'.  ::)
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Kimberly on September 17, 2006, 05:14:55 PM
Does that come with matching shoes?
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: BorbonFan on September 17, 2006, 05:17:20 PM
Does that come with matching shoes?

Perhaps, if you perform well your duties of cooking, cleaning, and raising his many children as a good Muslim wife should.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Kimberly on September 17, 2006, 05:22:31 PM
"raising his many children.....?? They can wear platform shoes like all the others...... I'm bored now. Night night sweetie.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: BorbonFan on September 17, 2006, 06:39:58 PM
"raising his many children.....?? They can wear platform shoes like all the others...... I'm bored now. Night night sweetie.

Good night, you, too. Or, good morning! (depending on when you get to read this message).
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Lucien on September 18, 2006, 11:06:54 AM
There are subtle signs that these prophecies are starting to become reality. For more about these signs, please, see "Spanish Royal Family. Summer 2006." (http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php/topic,7680.0.html)

God bless!
Borbon Fan

Sorry, these signs were so subtle that I missed them!

plese explain.... will Leonor be Empress of Byzantium or not!!

The signs are - if you read on down the thread - the stronger and stronger friendship between two nations currently on opposite sides of the military barricade represented by NATO: Spain and Russia. "Filip VI" and "the blonde nation" have begun their prophetic cooperation.

Sorry to disappoint you, though: according to St. Methodius, "Filip VI" will have sons who will inherit the throne. Leonor will not become queen or empress.

God bless!
Borbon Fan

Sorry for your St.Methodius,and for you.It must be hard to be living in the 21st century,while actually thinking you live in the 15th suffering from megalomania.
Very offensive posts regarding your " women-men equality being anti-christian",and the ongoing twaddle regarding prophecies.You're tiresome and uncanny views?They're just too much.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: BorbonFan on September 18, 2006, 07:04:57 PM
There are subtle signs that these prophecies are starting to become reality. For more about these signs, please, see "Spanish Royal Family. Summer 2006." (http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php/topic,7680.0.html)

God bless!
Borbon Fan

Sorry, these signs were so subtle that I missed them!

plese explain.... will Leonor be Empress of Byzantium or not!!

The signs are - if you read on down the thread - the stronger and stronger friendship between two nations currently on opposite sides of the military barricade represented by NATO: Spain and Russia. "Filip VI" and "the blonde nation" have begun their prophetic cooperation.

Sorry to disappoint you, though: according to St. Methodius, "Filip VI" will have sons who will inherit the throne. Leonor will not become queen or empress.

God bless!
Borbon Fan

Sorry for your St.Methodius,and for you.It must be hard to be living in the 21st century,while actually thinking you live in the 15th suffering from megalomania.
Very offensive posts regarding your " women-men equality being anti-christian",and the ongoing twaddle regarding prophecies.You're tiresome and uncanny views?They're just too much.

Sir, your bring double shame on yourself by attacking firstly the Orthodox Church, Her views on men and women, and Her saints (St. Methodius is not just my saint, but that of hundreds of millions of Orthodox Christians) and secondly me personally ("suffering from megalomania").

Since you do not seem to believe in Christ and His many gifts to His saints such as that of prophecy, please, ignore the prophecies. They are meant to strenghten the weaker faith of some Christians as they see them fulfilled.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Lucien on September 19, 2006, 01:52:17 AM
I did not attack the Orthodox church as such,each his/her own,unless you like to see what you wish/want to see only,but sure,I do not agree on everything any religion "dishes up" without questioning.Second:I did not attack St.Methodius as such,merely the way you "handle" him here,on this forum.Third: I do believe in Christ,allthough not in a fundamentalist fashion,and I certainly do not "dish" that up on this forum,I'm sure there must be Bible-belt forums to cater for that. 
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: BorbonFan on September 19, 2006, 11:44:22 AM
I did not attack the Orthodox church as such,each his/her own,unless you like to see what you wish/want to see only,but sure,I do not agree on everything any religion "dishes up" without questioning.Second:I did not attack St.Methodius as such,merely the way you "handle" him here,on this forum.Third: I do believe in Christ,allthough not in a fundamentalist fashion,and I certainly do not "dish" that up on this forum,I'm sure there must be Bible-belt forums to cater for that. 

In your answer you failed to address one issue: your personal attack on "megalomaniac" me.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Kimberly on September 19, 2006, 03:32:40 PM
Talking about personal attacks? Well you can sure dish them out. You called me "an Anti- christian Feminist". I take offense at this....I, sir, am not a feminist. >:(
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: BorbonFan on September 19, 2006, 03:57:20 PM
Talking about personal attacks? Well you can sure dish them out. You called me "an Anti- christian Feminist". I take offense at this....I, sir, am not a feminist. >:(

I never called you a feminist. I don't attack persons. I only attack ideas/ideals that I find wrong. Read again, please, this posting (http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php/topic,7548.msg210348.html#msg210348) in which I criticized "your anti-Christian feminist ideals."
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Kimberly on September 19, 2006, 04:30:30 PM
If I have "feminist ideals" ergo I am a feminist!
So I take it from that, that we won't be going out for a frothy coffee tomorrow





Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: BorbonFan on September 19, 2006, 04:50:36 PM
If I have "feminist ideals" ergo I am a feminist!
So I take it from that, that we won't be going out for a frothy coffee tomorrow

I go out to drinks with anybody, as long as they are respectful of each other. Yes, even with people with "feminist ideals." Notice I don't call you and never called you "feminist." People can have wrong ideas or ideals, anybody can, anybody can make mistakes, but that doesn't make them bad people. Only Christ decides at the end, when He balances out everything we did, who's good, who's bad. Nobody else can.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Prince_Lieven on September 19, 2006, 05:16:06 PM
There's been far to much personal banter (not to mention abstract theological discussion) on this thread that really doesn't belong on this forum. Any more of it and I think I'll have to lock this thread.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Robert_Hall on September 19, 2006, 05:55:37 PM
Is anybody even moderating these posts? One thread was quite interesting until taken over bible thumping bigotry.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: BorbonFan on September 19, 2006, 06:05:28 PM
There's been far to much personal banter (not to mention abstract theological discussion) on this thread that really doesn't belong on this forum. Any more of it and I think I'll have to lock this thread.

I agree with the personal part, but not with the theological part: this thread topic - prophecies -, regardless of their subject, is by definition linked to faith and theology. If by "abstract theology" you mean theology unrelated to the prophecies, then sure, I agree it is off-topic. However, theology related to the prophecies is not off-topic.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: grandduchessella on September 20, 2006, 05:13:30 PM
There's been far to much personal banter (not to mention abstract theological discussion) on this thread that really doesn't belong on this forum. Any more of it and I think I'll have to lock this thread.

Prince_L is absolutely correct. He spoke in his position as moderator--and thus with the authority of the FA--and it's time to stop now. Any personal complaints, comments and, especially, snide remarks, are best kept to PMs rather than drag the rest of the Forum into it. The tone taken on this, and other, similar threads has raised all sorts of complaints to various moderators.

BourbonFan--you wrote "I agree with the personal part, but not with the theological part: this thread topic - prophecies -, regardless of their subject, is by definition linked to faith and theology. If by "abstract theology" you mean theology unrelated to the prophecies, then sure, I agree it is off-topic. However, theology related to the prophecies is not off-topic."

This may be true but there has still been too much straying from the topic at hand--many of the theological discussions, and the response to them, don't seem related to the prophecies. Maybe this is incorrect but if so the posts needed to worded (by all) better.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: BorbonFan on September 20, 2006, 06:46:04 PM
In the next year or so we should have a first confirmation of whether Nostradamus' prophecies are true or not, including those mentioned in the first message about the restoration of Monarchy in France under a Spanish King, who is said will unite Spain and France under his sceptre.

Quatrain VI 54 is the key to dating all of Nostradamus' prophecies and the one which will provide us with a reality check of their validity.

VI 54
Au poinct du iour au second chant du coq
Ceux de Tunes, de Fez, & de Bugie :
Par les Arabes captif le Roy Maroq,
L'an mil six cens & sept de Liturgie.

At daybreak at the second crowing of the cock,
Those of Tunis, of Fez and of Bougie,
By the Arabs the King of Morocco captured,
The year sixteen hundred and seven, of the Liturgy.

Link: http://www.sacred-texts.com/nos/mrg/nosmrg06.htm

The quatrain speaks quite clearly of an Arab invasion in Northern Africa -- in Tunisia, Algeria (with its city of Fez) and Morocco, whose King the Arabs will capture. This invasion is to take place in the year "1607 of the Liturgy." If "of the Liturgy" means "since the very first Liturgy," i.e. that celebrated in memory of Christ immediately after His Ascension to the Heavens in the year 33 AD, the year 1607+33=1650 AD should have already witnessed this Arab invasion. A brief recourse to history proves nothing of this sort happenned in any of the three North African countries in 1650. Thus, the expression must mean "since the Liturgy as I know it" - that is, as it was known in Nostradamus' lifetime.

Which Liturgy, though? The Catholic One or the Orthodox One? The Orthodox One used during the vast majority of the year is that of St. John Chrysostom (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08452b.htm). He had finished It by 397 when he leaves Antioch due to his election as Archbishop of Constantinople, according to Encyclopaedia Catholica (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04312d.htm): "It is true that most of these homilies were preached at Antioch (387-397) before he went to Constantinople. It would seem, then, that the Liturgy of St. Chrysostom was in great part that of his time at Antioch, and that he introduced it at the capital when he became patriarch." If we add 1607 to 397, we get 2004, clearly not a correct year, as none of these foretold events occurred in 2004.

Thus, it follows that "the Liturgy" must mean the Catholic One, That of St. Ambrose used in the West since "about 400" AD according to the same Encyclopaedia (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09790b.htm): "By the fifth century we come back to comparatively firm ground, after a radical change. At this time we have the fragment in Pseudo-Ambrose, "De sacramentis" (about 400. Cf. P.L., XVI, 443), and the letter of Pope Innocent I (401-17) to Decentius of Eugubium (P.L., XX, 553). In these documents we see that the Roman Liturgy is said in Latin and has already become in essence the rite we still use." If we add 1607 to "about 400", it follows that next year or so we should have a clear confirmation of whether or not Nostradamus is a legitimate prophet.
 
Even if this quatrain does not become fulfilled next year or the following, it doesn't mean that Nostradamus was a charlatan. It may simply mean that my interpretation key is wrong and that by "of the Liturgy" he may have meant something different.

Regardless, Nostradamus is not a saint of the Church and as such his prophecies carry nowhere nearly as much credibility as those of St. Methodius of Patara, St. Brigitta of Sweden, or St. Seraphim of Sarov, which speak of a Spanish Bourbon King and of the French Monarchy. However, if this key prophecy does become true next year or so (by 2008 at the latest), it logically follows that since even somebody much less than a saint was inspired by God with such a proven gift of prophecy, even more so then God's saints must be believed and their prophecies must be expected to become reality, for the strenghtening of the faith of those who hear them and see them fulfilled.

God bless!
Borbon Fan
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: ilyala on September 21, 2006, 01:44:24 AM
can i laugh at this or would that be offensive to anyone?  :D :D
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: bell_the_cat on September 21, 2006, 01:53:29 AM
Yes, Ilyala , it would be, as it is now forbidden to make negative comments about the prophecies! :)

Back to the prophecies...

BorbonFan, just why will the Arabs be invading North Africa next year - they are already there. You are surely aware that Tunisia, Algeria and Morocco are all Arab nations (  though they contain other nationalities such as Berbers etc. Have you any view on who the King of the Arabs might be?


Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: bell_the_cat on September 21, 2006, 01:56:31 AM
I think you are wise to put Nostradamus in a separate category!
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: ilyala on September 21, 2006, 01:58:14 AM
ok, now seriously. how many signs (except nostradamus of course) do you see of spain and france being joint as one country? i see none.

let's put it this way: they are in the european union already together, that already makes them quite united, why should they want to be more united than that? if you want, we can see the prophecy and interpret it in the eu context, but i don't think that's what you meant, is it?

i for one don't think that the french and spanish people will suddenly realize they're one nation and unite under the spanish king. but feel free to contradict me with on-topic valid arguments.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: BorbonFan on September 21, 2006, 07:23:12 AM
ok, now seriously. how many signs (except nostradamus of course) do you see of spain and france being joint as one country? i see none.

let's put it this way: they are in the european union already together, that already makes them quite united, why should they want to be more united than that? if you want, we can see the prophecy and interpret it in the eu context, but i don't think that's what you meant, is it?

i for one don't think that the french and spanish people will suddenly realize they're one nation and unite under the spanish king. but feel free to contradict me with on-topic valid arguments.

You bring up valid points in terms of the current reality. However, this topic isn't so much about the current reality. It is rather about one's faith - faith in God and His prophecies given to His people for the strengthening of their faith.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: ilyala on September 21, 2006, 07:50:34 AM
god does his deeds the way he does them. but in the entire history of humanity, how many times has god done anything out of the blue? each and every time a process as complex as the unification of two countries was done, it was done slowly and with patience. if god had anything to do with it, he probably influenced people to be favorable towards it. but god's influence was subtle enough to be simply considered a natural process....

if you believe in god you might call eu a miracle - countries not only not at war anymore but volontarily uniting with each other. but it has been done slowly and surely rather than out of the blue.

i sincerely doubt god will change his mind and start performing more sudden miracles than he has in the past.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: BorbonFan on September 21, 2006, 07:59:40 AM
but in the entire history of humanity, how many times has god done anything out of the blue? (...)
i sincerely doubt god will change his mind and start performing more sudden miracles than he has in the past.
God did many wonders all of a sudden rather than slowly many times in the history of mankind : He split the waters of the Red Sea when His people were being chased by the Egyptians, He stopped the Sun in its course on the sky to allow His people to see and win the battle, He made the walls of Jericho fall, He walked on water, He turned water into wine, He multiplied the fish and bread, He healed the paralytics, He raised people from the dead, He resurrected from the dead and ascended into Heaven.

I, on the contrary, believe it's high time God did miracles to put a stop to the accelerated decline of Christianity brought about by secularism with the main help of the so-called democratic press, started with the French revolution and continued through all the subsequent ones (1830, 1848, 1917, etc.). The church attendance rates are abysmal in the West of Europe. Christianity is dying. Unless He does something drastic about it, as His prophecies foretell, all the people will soon return to the pre-Christian pagan times of worship of idols - the intellect, the human body, the pleasures.

God bless!
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: BorbonFan on September 21, 2006, 08:43:21 AM
BorbonFan, just why will the Arabs be invading North Africa next year - they are already there. You are surely aware that Tunisia, Algeria and Morocco are all Arab nations (  though they contain other nationalities such as Berbers etc. Have you any view on who the King of the Arabs might be?

Very good point! Yes, I am aware. Arabs might mean not just Arab invaders from abroad, but also local fundamentalist Arabs (i.e. extremist Islamists) staging a coup d'etat, an Islamist revolution like the Iranian one.

Some prophecies speak of a Persian king. But ethnically Persians (Iranians) are not Arabs. That's why honestly I do not have too good an idea who the Arab King might be. After all, there might be none if we go with the second interpretation that instead of an Arab invasion, we may have Arab/Islamist revolutions in all of these countries.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Marlene on September 21, 2006, 09:11:24 AM


Can't wait for those pagan times to return ... ah,  St. Chocolate.  St. Mickey  St. Macy's.

but in the entire history of humanity, how many times has god done anything out of the blue? (...)
i sincerely doubt god will change his mind and start performing more sudden miracles than he has in the past.
God did many wonders all of a sudden rather than slowly many times in the history of mankind : He split the waters of the Red Sea when His people were being chased by the Egyptians, He stopped the Sun in its course on the sky to allow His people to see and win the battle, He made the walls of Jericho fall, He walked on water, He turned water into wine, He multiplied the fish and bread, He healed the paralytics, He raised people from the dead, He resurrected from the dead and ascended into Heaven.

I, on the contrary, believe it's high time God did miracles to put a stop to the accelerated decline of Christianity brought about by secularism with the main help of the so-called democratic press, started with the French revolution and continued through all the subsequent ones (1830, 1848, 1917, etc.). The church attendance rates are abysmal in the West of Europe. Christianity is dying. Unless He does something drastic about it, as His prophecies foretell, all the people will soon return to the pre-Christian pagan times of worship of idols - the intellect, the human body, the pleasures.

God bless!
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Kimberly on September 21, 2006, 09:20:38 AM
Ooooh, Marlene :o ;D
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Taren on September 21, 2006, 01:03:36 PM
I just caught the last couple of pages of this, so I'm probably missing something, but haven't a great many of Nostradamus' predictions not come through? Also, BorbonFan, were you saying that Nostradumus' prophesies speak for God? Please don't say I'm putting words in your mouth, because that was just the impression I got and if I'm wrong I'm wrong. Anyway, I was always brought up with the notion that one should not put their faith in psychics and those that predict the future.

Dueteronomy 18:10-12 says Neither let there be found among you any one that shall expiate his son or daughter, making them to pass through the fire: or that consulteth soothsayers, or observeth dreams and omens, neither let there be any wizard,
nor charmer, nor any one that consulteth pythonic spirits, or fortune tellers, or that seeketh the truth from the dead. For the Lord abhorreth all these things, and for these abominations he will destroy them at thy coming.

There is a noted psychic, Sylvia Browne. She prophesses to have great faith in God. She has also predicted that the Pope would die every year until he finally did and then that he would be succeeded by a pope of African descent. She, like Nostradamus, is right sometimes and wrong sometimes -despite her faith in God.

It's fun to look at things like prophesies and things fortune tellers and psychics say, but it can be dangerous when people say that they will happen. Putting your faith in man for anything is never a good idea. Just saying.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: BorbonFan on September 21, 2006, 03:31:10 PM
I just caught the last couple of pages of this, so I'm probably missing something, but haven't a great many of Nostradamus' predictions not come through? Also, BorbonFan, were you saying that Nostradumus' prophesies speak for God? Please don't say I'm putting words in your mouth, because that was just the impression I got and if I'm wrong I'm wrong. Anyway, I was always brought up with the notion that one should not put their faith in psychics and those that predict the future.

Dueteronomy 18:10-12 says Neither let there be found among you any one that shall expiate his son or daughter, making them to pass through the fire: or that consulteth soothsayers, or observeth dreams and omens, neither let there be any wizard,
nor charmer, nor any one that consulteth pythonic spirits, or fortune tellers, or that seeketh the truth from the dead. For the Lord abhorreth all these things, and for these abominations he will destroy them at thy coming.

There is a noted psychic, Sylvia Browne. She prophesses to have great faith in God. She has also predicted that the Pope would die every year until he finally did and then that he would be succeeded by a pope of African descent. She, like Nostradamus, is right sometimes and wrong sometimes -despite her faith in God.

It's fun to look at things like prophesies and things fortune tellers and psychics say, but it can be dangerous when people say that they will happen. Putting your faith in man for anything is never a good idea. Just saying.


I agree that magic, psychics, and (most) omens are the work of the devil and are condemned by the Church. However, as I am not quite sure if Nostradamus was inspired by God or not, I deem his prophecies worthy of a reading for the time being, especially since they end with Christ's second coming and speak extensively of the Church. If I had some clear proof that he was inspired by the devil, I would definitely reject his prophecies altogether.

It is widely believed that he plagiarized a lot of the old prophecies circulating in his time. He always refused to call himself a prophet and, despite the harshness of the Inquisition, he had a good relationship with the Catholic Church, whose local bishops approved the printing of his yearly Almancs. All these appear to suggest he did not use the devil's help. However, his penchant for astrology seems to point in the opposite dark direction.

As I said, I am not a huge fan of his and so am not going to hold my breath to see if 2007 or 2008 confirms his prophecy about the Arab upheaval in the Maghreb countries. If it gets confirmed, fine, it strengthens the credibility of the prophecies of God's saints, much more likely than a sinner like him to receive such prophecies from God. If it is not confirmed, then Nostradamus was probably not a God's man or I am not doing a good job interpreting them. Perhaps then I may consider doing a more focused background search on him to see if he did engage or not in occult practices and if found guilty, forget about him for ever.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Marlene on September 21, 2006, 04:03:21 PM

Second coming indeed -- I think Jesus has always been here ....

I've read Nostradamus too, and I think he's totally off=base.  I used to think that his prophecies referred to the Mets winning the world series every year .... well, perhaps this year.  But he keeps getting it wrong.

[I agree that magic, psychics, and (most) omens are the work of the devil and are condemned by the Church. However, as I am not quite sure if Nostradamus was inspired by God or not, I deem his prophecies worthy of a reading for the time being, especially since they end with Christ's second coming and speak extensively of the Church. If I had some clear proof that he was inspired by the devil, I would definitely reject his prophecies altogether.

It is widely believed that he plagiarized a lot of the old prophecies circulating in his time. He always refused to call himself a prophet and, despite the harshness of the Inquisition, he had a good relationship with the Catholic Church, whose local bishops approved the printing of his yearly Almancs. All these appear to suggest he did not use the devil's help. However, his penchant for astrology seems to point in the opposite dark direction.:

As I said, I am not a huge fan of his and so am not going to hold my breath to see if 2007 or 2008 confirms his prophecy about the Arab upheaval in the Maghreb countries. If it gets confirmed, fine, it strengthens the credibility of the prophecies of God's saints, much more likely than a sinner like him to receive such prophecies from God. If it is not confirmed, then Nostradamus was probably not a God's man or I am not doing a good job interpreting them. Perhaps then I may consider doing a more focused background search on him to see if he did engage or not in occult practices and if found guilty, forget about him for ever.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Kimberly on September 21, 2006, 04:16:27 PM
I think that some of his prophesies are hoaxes. For example, the quatrain that supposedly predicted the attack on the Twin Towers. Didn't Nostradamus use astrology as well as the bible for his prophesies?
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: BorbonFan on September 21, 2006, 04:27:07 PM
I think that some of his prophesies are hoaxes. For example, the quatrain that supposedly predicted the attack on the Twin Towers. Didn't Nostradamus use astrology as well as the bible for his prophesies?

Being so cryptic, N's prophecies lend themselves to extremely varied interpretations, most of which have been wrong. That is not to say that the prophecies themselves are wrong -- interpretation and prophecy are obviously two wholly different things. A lot of the so-called experts interpret them for pure financial gains, telling people in various books what they fear most to hear to make money off of people's fear.

I, for one, haven't yet and will not publish anything on him to gain any money, but instead am looking at N. from a strictly Christian angle (something I believe is unique to all his interpreters so far) for a greater glory of God and of His saints. If, as I said, my stricly Christian interpretation of VI 54 proves to be erroneous, I may try another Christian key, but definitely not something non-Christian. Instead I may, as I said, closely investigate N's links to the occult. I haven't done it yet since I don't want to pay money to clarify this issue, but will certainly do so if necessary.

God bless!
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Taren on September 21, 2006, 05:12:40 PM
Supposedly you can use the Bible Code to predict world events. There was a program about it some time ago. I found it pretty convincing -until it was shown that you can do the same with a copy of Moby Dick. I think that some prophesies are intentionally rather vague, so that current information may be easily plugged in, so to speak.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: BorbonFan on September 21, 2006, 06:40:30 PM
Supposedly you can use the Bible Code to predict world events. There was a program about it some time ago. I found it pretty convincing -until it was shown that you can do the same with a copy of Moby Dick. I think that some prophesies are intentionally rather vague, so that current information may be easily plugged in, so to speak.

My litmus test for whether or not a prophecy/prediction is God-sent is the following: does that prophecy imply a spiritual betterment (repentance, increase in faith) or not? Any prophecy that speaks of God, of repentance, of faith in Him and Jesus Christ, all of which imply spiritual betterment, is very likely God-sent, for this is what He ultimataley expects from us. A prophecy that seeks only to give man control over his life or the lives of others (i.e. prediction of world events/political future) and says nothing of spiritual betterment is likely not from God, but Satan. No man has or ever will have such control over his/her life for total control ultimately belongs to God. To seek such control, such a power is to implicitly deny His existence and omnipotence. Hence, the Bible Code is not from God for its ultimate goal is to help individuals achieve control of their life or world events without ever mentioning spiritual betterment.

The mere fact that one uses the Bible does not make Christian a divination method such as the Bible Code. There are black satanic masses celebrated using the Bible and the Eucharist. The only divination (or better said foreseeing of the future) that is Christian is that done with the help of a Christian monk or hermit.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Taren on September 21, 2006, 06:45:33 PM
Supposedly you can use the Bible Code to predict world events. There was a program about it some time ago. I found it pretty convincing -until it was shown that you can do the same with a copy of Moby Dick. I think that some prophesies are intentionally rather vague, so that current information may be easily plugged in, so to speak.

My litmus test for whether or not a prophecy/prediction is God-sent is the following: does that prophecy imply a spiritual betterment (repentance, increase in faith) or not? Any prophecy that speaks of God, of repentance, of faith in Him and Jesus Christ, all of which imply spiritual betterment, is very likely God-sent, for this is what He ultimataley expects from us. A prophecy that seeks only to give man control over his life or the lives of others (i.e. prediction of world events/political future) and says nothing of spiritual betterment is likely not from God, but Satan. No man has or ever will have such control over his/her life for total control ultimately belongs to God. To seek such control, scuh a power is to deny His existence and omnipotence. Hence, the Bible Code is not from God for its ultimate goal is to help individuals achieve control of their life or the lives of others.
 

So then by that same token would you say that the idea of the antichrist or the beast as in Daniel and Revelations would not be a prophecy that comes from God since the antichrist has nothing to do with spiritual betterment? Sure it ushers in the millenium period, but the antichrist him/herself won't be for betterment? This is undoubtedly really off-topic, and I apologize.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: BorbonFan on September 21, 2006, 06:53:08 PM
So then by that same token would you say that the idea of the antichrist or the beast as in Daniel and Revelations would not be a prophecy that comes from God since the antichrist has nothing to do with spiritual betterment? Sure it ushers in the millenium period, but the antichrist him/herself won't be for betterment? This is undoubtedly really off-topic, and I apologize.
I don't think this reply is off topic since it provides a sort of rule of thumb for weeding out demonic prophecies. The anti-christ has everything to do with spiritual betterment, for those Christians living at the end of times under his demonic rule are called by Christ to take the martyr's crown and achieve the highest level of spiritual betterment - that to lie down one's life at one's friends' feet - or else compromise with anti-christ, worship him, bear his sign, and, thus, be condemned for eternity. Through the antichrist's opressions and executions of all Christians who do not submit to him, many will be made martyr saints - thus, antichrist is the tool of spiritual betterment.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: cimbrio on September 24, 2006, 01:10:58 AM
Has it already been mentioned that the Duque of Anjou's wife if pregnant? I've scrolled around but can't find a thread that covers the news, though there's not much else to be said really...

http://www.hola.com/imprimir_noticia.php?url=/famosos/2006/09/12/luisalfonso-padre/index.html
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Dmitry Russian on October 11, 2006, 04:21:46 PM
Excuse me, but I have a question. What now probability of restoration of the French monarchy? How many now royalists?
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Dmitry Russian on October 11, 2006, 11:29:20 PM
Thanks! I shall necessarily look these materials about the French monarchists
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: lovebourbons on October 21, 2006, 09:24:05 PM
Does anyone have an idea if the french monarchy was restored today where  the royal family live ???

Thanks,
lovebourbons
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: CHRISinUSA on December 05, 2006, 01:07:43 PM
It would seem a moot point to contemplate such a thing.  However, the current president has the use of the Elycee Palace and Hotel Marigny, the Fort Bregancon, the Palace of Rambouillet, the Marley Domain, and the Souzy-la-Briche residence. 

In a return to monarchy, a prime minister would have little need of so many residences for entertaining, so it would be logical for one or more of these properties to revert to the Crown.

I'm sure your real question was - would the Chateau Versailles and other enormous former royal palaces be returned to the Crown?  I doubt it - they are all museums and an integral part of the country's tourist industry.  Perhaps a "restored" monarch would have use of some areas of these properties for officail receptions and engagements.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: carl fraley on December 05, 2006, 08:28:11 PM
IMO  if the French Monarchy were restored I think that it would be a major mistake to even attempt to restore Versailles to a liveable palace.

There is still the Palais Royale in Paris where the sovereign could live, and the Trianon's as a country residence, Luxembourg Palace, Paris , and they could still leave teh Elycee as the Prime Ministers residence.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: TampaBay on December 09, 2006, 07:08:53 PM
Let us just but them a new palace so we have an excuse to start a new thread and discussion topic.  ;D ;D ;D

TampaBay
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Remio on December 10, 2006, 05:42:37 AM
In France there are still some big palaces such as Versailles (of course), but also Compiègne, Fontainebleau and other smaller such as Rambouillet. But there were other palaces such as Saint-Hubert, Choisy, La Muette, Meudon and of course Saint-Cloud and the Tuileries. All these palaces belonged to Louis XVI and Marie-antoinette. But the other members of the royal family had palaces too.
here is a list of palaces belonging to the royal family before the French Revolution :

residences of the duke of Penthièvre :
Anet
Rambouillet ( till 1783)
Chatreauneuf-sur-Loire
Bizy
Valencay
Armainvilliers
Eu
La Ferté-Vidame ( starting from 1783)
L'hôtel de Toulouse
Amboise
Sceaux
Dreux
Hôtel du grand Veneur à Versailles
Aumale
Blois

residences of the orleans family :
Le Raincy
Le Palais Royal
Le parc Monceau
Villers-Cotterêts

residences of the comte et comtesse de Provence :
Brunoy
Pavillon de Madame
Grosbois
Rocquencourt
Palais du Luxembourg
Pavillon de Monsieur in Versailles

residences of the comte et comtesse d'Artois :
Château of the faisandrie  near Chatou
Palais du Temple
Villeneuve-L'étang
Bagatelle
Maisons ( nowadays Maisons-laffitte)
Saint-Germain en Laye
Hôtel de la rue Neuve-des-Capucins (nowadays Joubert street)

residences of the prince of Conti :
L'Isle Adam
Montceaux
Palais du Temple (till 1776)

residences of the prince of Condé :
Chantilly
Palais Bourbon
Ecouen

(P.S : this list isn't exhaustive)
(some palaces of this list have now disapearead)
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: bell_the_cat on December 10, 2006, 08:36:01 AM
.. and there was Bellevue, which belonged to the king's aunts. Great list though, Remio!

I think that if there were a restoration, the monarch would have to be in Paris, for historical reasons, to underline the constitutional nature of the restored monarchy. I can't see them residing in a "quartier populaire" like where I used to live in the XVIIIe, so that narrows it down a bit.

A rebuilt Tuileries might be an option, but it has sad memories for the Bourbons (I always thought it was rather ugly anyway! ;)). Maybe a modern architect like Jean Nouvel or Christian de Potzamparc would design anew palace for the 21st century - there are still some old railway sites that need redeveloping, so maybe some of these could be used. There are some empty sites at La Défense - maybe a skyscraper palace!
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Amour_des_Bourbons on December 29, 2006, 07:26:23 AM
According to a prophecy of the Russian saint Seraphim de Sarov (http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php/topic,7548.msg200879.html#msg200879), the restored Bourbons will live in Reims, because Paris will have been destroyed.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: BorbonFan on January 27, 2007, 04:43:24 PM
I have found two more prophecies by Orthodox and Catholic saints, which suggest that the Great Monarch long-awaited by the French will be a Spanish Bourbon, reigning over a European Christian Empire, with its capital in the South, i.e. Byzantium. Both of these prophecies speak of the same Emperor of Europe, the last one, who will enter in Jerusalem, possibly liberating it from the Muslims ("house of Hagar" - that is Abraham's slave and mother to his son, Ishmael, the biblical father of all Arabs). 

PROPHÉTIE DE SAINT RÉMY

Saint Rémi formula cette prophétie, la veille du jour où il baptisa Hlodwig (Clovis), le premier roi franc qui se convertit au christianisme en 496.

Vers la fin des temps, un descendant des rois francs régnera sur tout l'antique empire romain. Il sera le plus grand des rois de France et le dernier de sa race. Il arrivera comme par miracle. Il sera de la vieille cape. Le trône sera posé au Midi. Après un règne des plus glorieux, il ira à Jérusalem, sur le mont des Oliviers, déposer sa couronne et son sceptre, et c'est ainsi que finira le saint empire romain et chrétien.

LA PROPHÉTIE DE SAINT ISIDORE, DE SÉVILLE (560 - 636)

" ...Dans les derniers jours il règera sur la grande Espagne un roi doublement doué de piété. Et il règnera par une femme dont le nom commence par Y et finira L. Et le dit roi viendra des régions orientales et il règnera dans sa jeunesse. Lui-même combattra les impuretés des Espagnes, et ce que le feu ne dévorera pas, le glaive le dévastera. Il règnera sur la maison d'Agar et obtiendra Jérusalem. Il posera le signe de la Croix sur le saint Sépulcre et ce sera un très grand Monarque."

Source: http://orthodoxie.club.fr/bul/90.htm

My translation:

THE PROPHECY OF SAINT RÉMY

Saint Remi formulated this prophecy, the day before he baptized Hlodwig (Clovis), the first Frankish King who converted to Christianity in 496.

"Towards the end of time, a descendant of the Frankish kings will reign on all the antique Roman empire. It will be greatest of the kings of France and the last of his race. He will come as by miracle. He will be of the old cape. The throne will be posed at the South. After a most glorious reign, he will go to Jerusalem, on the Mount of Olives, to deposit his crown and sceptre, and thus will finish the holy Roman and Christian empire."

THE PROPHECY OF SAINT ISIDORE OF SEVILLE (560 - 636)

“…In the last days he will reign over the greater Spain a king doubly endowed with piety. And he will reign through a woman whose name starts with Y and finishes in L. And the said king will come from the Eastern areas and reign in his youth. He himself will fight the impurities of the Spaniards and what fire will not devour, the sword will devastate it. He will reign over the house of Hagar and will obtain Jerusalem. He will put the sign of the cross on the Holy Sepulchre and will be a very great Monarch.”

God bless!
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: BorbonFan on January 28, 2007, 05:55:08 AM
St. Isidore's prophecy speaks of a Great Monarch and Spanish King, one and the same, who will reign through a woman whose name starts with Y and ends in L. If taken phonetically, this woman's name cannot be any other except Isabel (Ysabel has the same pronounciation), i.e. Queen Isabel II. Since all the Borbons after Isabel II essentially have reigned thanks to her own reign, it is pretty clear that this means the prophecy is not about other dyansties, but only about the Spanish Borbon Kings, from amongst whom one will become the Great Monarch. And since St. Remi speaks of the same Great Monarch in France, who will one day enter Jerusalem to end his reign, just as St. Isidore does, it follows that both St. Remi and St. Isidore are talking about one and the same Great Monarch - a Spanish Bourbon (Borbon) King.

Given all the signs of a God's chosen one (http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php/topic,8909.0.html) displayed by Prince Felipe of Asturias, I believe he will be the next King of France as well as of Spain.

God bless!
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Mari on June 05, 2007, 03:26:52 AM
How are you finding the information on their chromosomes? like J Haplotype? Is there a posting of DNA information somewhere on royal families? I was interested to read although I don't have the reference of a DNA test run on indigenous Natives either in Alaska or the Northeast U.S. and they found the skeleton tested 30,000 years old and that somewhere around the 20,000 mark they had picked up a DNA marking that would be found in France!! and it shocked them because they were expecting it to be Eastern as in China!! DNA is interesting....
 Off Topic I know!  ;D
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: britt.25 on June 05, 2007, 05:42:38 AM
The descendance from Karl the great can be found very nicely at genea.portugal, as the portughese kings descended from the Capets and french kings (early ones) so this port. site had a lot of work with leading back many later emperors (also the Capets, and Bourbons, Orléans etc) to Karl the Great. It´s fascinating!
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: britt.25 on June 08, 2007, 03:34:35 AM
Oh, that´s nice. It would be something for Dmitry.... ;D but he has disappeared ;D ;D
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Dmitry Russian on June 18, 2007, 06:48:58 PM
I read that the French legitimists consider Luis Alfonso de Bourbon as a legitimate heir to the French throne. Luis Alfonso is the great grandson of the Spanish King Alfonso XIII and the descendant of the grandson of the French King Louis XIV Philippe who became a Spanish King after the death of the previous suzerain of Spain Carlos II in 1700. But, unfortunately, there was a war for the Spanish inheritance, which ended with Utrecht Peacy Treaty. The Spanish King Philippe’s renunciation the French throne was one of the terms of the Utrecht Peacy Treaty. I read that the French legitimists consider Philippe’s renunciation as invalid because the right to the French throne was unalienable for each member of the Capetiens House. I read that the French legitimists consider Luis Alfonso de Bourbon as the eldest representative of the Capetiens House. So this prince is the head of the Capetiens House and therefore legitimate claimant to the French throne. But I think there is a little “but”. I suppose that French laws of succession to the throne must concern France and French throne, but mustn’t concern any foreign state. I think that the Spanish kingdom must be separate from the French laws of succession to the throne. I read that the grandson of the French King Louis XIV Philippe received the Spanish throne under the condition that Spain and France shouldn’t be united by the United Kingdom. But Louis XIV made a mistake when he set Philippe as an heir to the French throne. The war for the Spanish inheritance is the result of the mistake of Louis XIV. Philippe became a Spanish King, but he abdicated the rights to the French throne. Sicilian, Parmesan and Spanish Bourbons are the direct descendants of the grandson of Louis XIV Philippe. But I do not know, if they have rights to the French throne because their direct ancestor abdicated the French throne.

The Orleans family is the part of the Capetiens House. But sadly known Philippe Egalite (who voted for the execution of Louis XVI) and his only survived son Louis-Philippe (who is revolutionary king of the crowd and barricades) are the direct ancestors of the current Orleans family.

What is an ironical smile of the fate!!!!!!!

The descendants of the regicide and revolutionary king of the crowd and barricades are real heirs of the french throne!

By all means I am not a supporter of the Orleans family.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Lucien on June 19, 2007, 02:30:39 AM
Oh, that´s nice. It would be something for Dmitry.... ;D but he has disappeared ;D ;D

oh yeah,well,that was wishfull thinking.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: britt.25 on June 19, 2007, 02:34:34 AM
I don´t know why you consider the Spanish War of Inheritance after the death of Karl II. in 1700 "a result of a mistake of Louis XIV", Dmitry.  I think the story about this war is much more complex, I had a lesson on the Spanish Inheritance War two years ago at my university and there we discussed it thoroughtly, shortly said Philippe V. became king of Spain, because there Karl II died without any children, and therefore Philippe was the closest in blood line: Karl II was the son of the Spanish king Philippe IV whereas the mother of Ludwig was Philippe IV's sister, and Ludwig's wife was Karl II's halfsister. So in the later Philippe V. there was the blood of the Spanish Hapsburgs twice. In his last will Karl II. named Philipp, grandson of Louis XIV. to his official successor, even when there are doubts that this was done without any influence of the other side on the physically very weak king. Temporarily there were also other candidates, like the little son of Max. II Emanuel of Bavaria, because he was the son of Maria Antonia of Habsburg, and also the later emperor Karl VI (who called himself "Kalrl III". as spanish king) was seen as (candidate of being) spanish king, he was also sitting in Spain as "real" king and was seen so by his fellow people. But he gave (or better said had to give up) his plans for Spain, when became heir as holy roman emperor after the sudden death of his brother Joseph I.  
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Dmitry Russian on June 22, 2007, 06:29:11 AM
As I understood correctly, the right of each member of the Capetiens House to the French throne is inalienable. The Spanish Bourbons are the direct descendants of Louis XIV, but also they are Capetiens, so they have an irrefutable right to the French throne. The princes of the Orleans family are the direct descendants of Louis XIII (the father of Louis XIV) and the youngest line of the Capetiens House. Therefore the Spanish Bourbons have a preference over the Orleans House. The renunciation of the Spanish king Philippe is invalid for the French legitimists, so Luis Alfonso de Bourbon is the rightful heir to the French throne.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: dmitryalex777 on June 29, 2008, 04:46:14 PM
I am here for the first time and wish  to get acquainted with you.

Who is the lawful and legitimate successor of the French throne?
I shall be very glad and grateful for your answers.

Who  is the Successor of the French throne?
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: dmitryalex777 on June 30, 2008, 04:53:52 PM
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ad/Louis_de_Bourbon.jpg)

Very nice and pleasant man!
He would be very good and best king of France!!!

Has anybody any photos of Louis XX, duc d'Anjou?
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Lucien on July 01, 2008, 09:45:21 AM
I am here for the first time and wish  to get acquainted with you.

Who is the lawful and legitimate successor of the French throne?
I shall be very glad and grateful for your answers.

Who  is the Successor of the French throne?

You mean to say you are here for the first time under this alias,we know you are a Bourbonfan dear.
Not that a restauration of the Throne is eminent in France,nor ever will be again,in case,just in case,
I prefer Charles Prince Napoléon over all sorts of lines of Bourbons/Orléans.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: britt.25 on July 01, 2008, 02:05:09 PM
Thank you, Lucien for saying what I wanted to say...somewhere this all was so evident, we know this member, if he has one, two or hundred nicknames, it does not matter....I also think Charles would make a good job for France....
The duc d'Anjou seems to be an interesting man, too, indeed, but as you said there will never be a monarchy in France again. Interesting was to me that "Louis XX" is great-grandson of Franco....And I always thought our certain member dislikes dictators... ;D
BW: has anyone seen recent pictures of his daughter?


Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: dmitryalex777 on July 01, 2008, 04:27:08 PM
Quote
You mean to say you are here for the first time under this alias,we know you are a Bourbonfan dear.

You are mistaken. My name is Dmitry, and this my present name. I don't know this guy BourbonFan.


And still I wish to warn you. Dmitry Russian is absolutely my namesake and even my compatriot, but I could not contact with him. Dmitry Russian somewhere was gone, and I cannot contact with him in any way.

If my English is very bad, please, excuse me, I only recently have started to study English


Quote
I prefer Charles Prince Napoléon over all sorts of lines of Bourbons/Orléans.

Why do you prefer Charles Napoleon over all sorts of lines of Bourbons/Orleans? Please, explain
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Mari on July 02, 2008, 04:00:13 AM
O.K. I'll vote for the Bourbon  ;D I am not a big Napoleon fan either. But I have a question explain this ...

on the Duc d' Anjou
His engagement to marry Venezuelan heiress Maria Margarita de Vargas y Santaella was announced in November 2003. They were married on November 6, 2004 in La Romana, Dominican Republic. None of the members of the Spanish Royal Family attended the wedding. Though no official reason was given, it is not a secret that the King of Spain does not like his cousin's claim to the French throne and the fact that Luis Alfonso signed the wedding invitation as Duke of Anjou did not sit well with the king.
Quote

As the claim to the French throne will not happen that I can foresee why would there be animosity over this?
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: tecklenburg on July 02, 2008, 05:01:34 AM
Hello

I think that the Duke of Sevilla & his brother were present at the marriage of Louis-Alphonse. So it's a good start :)
HM the King of Spain is closely related to the Orleans branch by his mother, and he spent part of his youth with his Orleans cousins. So his fidelity is understandable. But it's sad that often in families, the mother's side relations are more precious. There should be more equity...
There is a contradiction because on the one's side HM the King supports his cousin Carlos who claims the crown of Two-Siciles & on the others side he agrees with the Orleans about the renounciations of the Spanish Bourbon to the throne of France. Can someone explain me?

To qualify this vision of the king's hostility to his Bourbon cousins, we won't forget that he was close to the sons of his uncle Jaime. Alfonso/Alphonse was chosen to be the godfather of HRH Infanta Cristina. The royal family of Spain attended the funerals of the Duke of Anjou & Cadiz. Louis-Alphonse attended the wedding of the Prince of Asturias.

Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: beladona on July 02, 2008, 06:12:18 AM
Hello, I am not specialist on succession of the French throne, and that is why I have probably two very unimportant questions:
What about marriages of Luis-Alphonse father (Alfonso 1936-1989; married Maria del Carmen Martínez-Bordiu y Franco) and grandfather (Jaime, Duque de Segovia, 1908-1975; married and divorced to Emanuela de Dampierre)? Are they considered morganatic or not? (I mean for supposed French succession)
Second: Philippe V. had to renounce the rights to the French throne, had not he? Or it is not valid?
(sorry for bad english...)
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: mcdnab on July 02, 2008, 12:33:07 PM
That's an intelligent question  i've never really considered that either marriage (and you could include his own as well making it three marriages) would have been considered by a French Bourbon in the 18th Century as a royal one - however my understanding that in France no such thing as a morganatic marriage really existed (rather like in Britain) although secret marriages did exist where the wife wasn't recognised by her husbands title.  So technically that shouldn't damage  his rights - his grandfather renounced his rights in Spain (and at the time his marriage would have been morganatic in Spain) - the arguement really rests on the validity of the renunciations in the treaty of utrecht and how they were subsequently treated and regarded.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Carol Jean on July 08, 2008, 07:12:21 AM
Hi, I too would like to know is there a male descendant living now of one of the brothers of Louis XVI? Who would he be and what is his name and title? Is there a male in a direct line down from one of Louis XVI's brothers? Not just a male heir from the family but a direct descendant. Thanks for you answer.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Stefan22 on July 08, 2008, 07:17:49 AM
Hello, I am not specialist on succession of the French throne, and that is why I have probably two very unimportant questions:
What about marriages of Luis-Alphonse father (Alfonso 1936-1989; married Maria del Carmen Martínez-Bordiu y Franco) and grandfather (Jaime, Duque de Segovia, 1908-1975; married and divorced to Emanuela de Dampierre)? Are they considered morganatic or not? (I mean for supposed French succession)
Second: Philippe V. had to renounce the rights to the French throne, had not he? Or it is not valid?
(sorry for bad english...)

There was nver a requierment fior an french dynast to marry a woman from a reigning or former reigning Royal/Princely/Grand Duxcal House like it was in Spain or in Austria. So the marriage is dynastic.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Robert_Hall on July 08, 2008, 10:26:10 AM
The only requirement for French royal marriages was that the bride be a Catholic. France did not have morganatic marriages.
  As for Louis XVIs brothers, Louis XVIII died without any issue.
 And Charles X's grandson, Henri [V]  Duc de Bordeaux, Comte de Chambord also died without issue in1883.   From then on, the  Head of the Royal House of France passed to the Orleans branch.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Norbert on July 08, 2008, 02:52:12 PM
Morganatic marriages were contracted by the French Royal House for example Louis XIV and Madame de Maintenon.

 Royalists recognise The Count of Paris  ( Duke of France) as the legitimate heir to the throne of France. As regards a restoration ...who knows. After the death of Louis XVI, France was to have 6 republics, 2 Empires and a legitimist monarchy followed by the "Citizen King". On the fall of the second Empire a Royalist Duke was elected President !  De Gaulle dreaming of Jeanne d'Arc regretted that the the last Count of Paris did not join him in London so that they could have liberated France together.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: beladona on July 08, 2008, 04:41:44 PM
The only requirement for French royal marriages was that the bride be a Catholic. France did not have morganatic marriages.

So does it means, that House of Orleans has its own law of "succession" and rules of "morganatic" and "non-morganatic" marriages?
See notices in Paul Theroff genealogy of France:
Thibaut (youngest son of Henri, Comte de Paris) Louis Denis Humbert Marie, Cte de la Marche (Sintra, Portugal 20 Jan 1948-Bamingui, Central Africa 23 Mar 1983); m. morganatically, according to Orléanist house law)(Edinburgh 23 Sep 1972 Marion Gordon-Orr (b.Santiago, Chile 4 Sep 1942)
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Robert_Hall on July 08, 2008, 05:25:24 PM
Personally, I would not know what the House of Orleans does,  but the succession to the head of the house of France  was not determined by equal marriages.  It the "ruling days"  marriages were more political alliances than anything else.
 In contemporary terms,  the whole idea is out the window.  The House Of France, no matter who one supports is full of divorces, mistresses and more than "unequal" marriages.
 As there is no throne of France to inherit, nor likely is there to be, the whole concept of "morganatic" and "Equal" is silly and elitist
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: britt.25 on July 10, 2008, 01:14:50 AM
One has to notice that it is a special strategy by a "special member" from us to repeat this topic over and over again....
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: beladona on July 10, 2008, 04:54:47 AM
As there is no throne of France to inherit, nor likely is there to be, the whole concept of "morganatic" and "Equal" is silly and elitist

Of course, it is only "academic" discussion, but some people are happy to repeat this theme and speculate about it again and again...
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Norbert on July 10, 2008, 11:30:34 AM
Europe is the land of thrones...lets see what happens
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: LouisOrleans on July 29, 2008, 06:44:00 PM
I have pictures of Louis XX and his wife, and daughter.
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w91/loganxbloody/b-kings1.jpg)
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w91/loganxbloody/padres-muestran-hija-residencia-16_.jpg)
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w91/loganxbloody/padres-primerizos-estn-felices-16_3.jpg)
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w91/loganxbloody/pequea-brazos-padre-16_3_2103174717.jpg)
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: britt.25 on August 02, 2008, 11:15:55 AM
There is a thread on Louis XX and there these pics are already....please have a look also there...!
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Norbert on August 03, 2008, 03:37:41 AM
The only requirement for French royal marriages was that the bride be a Catholic. France did not have morganatic marriages.

So does it means, that House of Orleans has its own law of "succession" and rules of "morganatic" and "non-morganatic" marriages?
See notices in Paul Theroff genealogy of France:
Thibaut (youngest son of Henri, Comte de Paris) Louis Denis Humbert Marie, Cte de la Marche (Sintra, Portugal 20 Jan 1948-Bamingui, Central Africa 23 Mar 1983); m. morganatically, according to Orléanist house law)(Edinburgh 23 Sep 1972 Marion Gordon-Orr (b.Santiago, Chile 4 Sep 1942)

It's up to the Head of the Dynasty as to who is recognised. The last Count of Paris excluded several of his children and his son has recognised them and given them Royal titles. Meanwhile in the Bonaparte dynasty Pr Napoleon left the claim to his grandson. I'm not sure anyone recognises the self styled Duke of Anjou...well, he is not French for a start. Next his marriage is hardly illustrious.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Michael HR on August 03, 2008, 06:17:03 AM
Don't royal families just love to argue over who will sit on the throne. France and Russia have something in common in that regard.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Norbert on August 03, 2008, 06:55:42 AM
I can't imagine anyone descended from Franco would be acceptable on any throne...discusss
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Michael HR on August 03, 2008, 07:15:08 AM
I hope not. He does not shine in the history books and is best forgotton 

I can't imagine anyone descended from Franco would be acceptable on any throne...discusss
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Duke of New Jersey on August 20, 2008, 03:58:26 PM
Quote
The renunciation of the Spanish king Philippe is invalid for the French legitimists, so Luis Alfonso de Bourbon is the rightful heir to the French throne.

Yes but what of Luis Alfonso de Bourbon's descent from Isabella II of Spain? I believe that French Salic Law prevents this descent from a woman.

-Duke of NJ
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Duke of New Jersey on August 20, 2008, 07:54:05 PM
I spent some time making this family tree that this shows the Line of Sucession to the French Throne from Louis XIII downwards. I show all the eldest sons but no women since this is the line to the French throne. I hope this makes it eaiser to see all the claimants.

-Duke of NJ
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Duke of New Jersey on August 20, 2008, 08:05:49 PM
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa20/DukeofNewJersey/Family%20Trees/th_ft.jpg) (http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa20/DukeofNewJersey/Family%20Trees/ft.jpg)
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Mari on August 20, 2008, 08:32:42 PM
This looks very interesting is there a way to make them even larger? :)
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: REMI on August 21, 2008, 03:27:49 AM
Why three claimants to the throne of France? I kow only two: Luis Alfonso de Borbon y Martinez Bordiù et Henri d'Orléans, "comte de Paris" (75 years old).His son, Jean, is "dauphin" for the moment.

REMI
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Naslednik Norvezhskiy on January 15, 2010, 07:32:42 AM
It just struck me one day, that although the chances of an actual French restoration are next to nil, there is a rather great theoretical chance for it: The third largest political party in France is Front National and although officially committed to the Republic, they are to some (which?) degree composed of and supported by royalists, along with the more vocal traditional Catholics, racists, neofascists and just plain dissatisfied silent majority, aren't they?

Although the Orléanist movement Action Française has supported Socialist presidential candidates, they threw their weight behind Jean-Marie Le Pen in the 2007 presidential elections. Le Pen's success has been credited to his ability to bring together the various counter-revolutionary, anti-republican "right-wing families of France". Does anybody know if Le Pen (still) is a monarchist? According to Wikipedia, he started his political career with selling the Orléanist Action Française's newspaper "Aspects de la France".
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Georges duke of Kent on January 15, 2010, 12:17:40 PM
So cute Mr.Taimennyi sovetnik 

I love the way you put the issue of monarchy in France. The monarchists are not either all black or all white. Gray Trianon is also possible. Obviously the way you labelled your question shows some prejudices. It's normal. It's young at heart and lovely. Some members of nobility in France more tories then the duke of Devonshire (in terms of attachment to preservation of historical heritage) are strictly socialist and do not want to spell the word Le Pen.

Some monarchist in France beleived in continuity, history and symbol other then central Paris in order to assemble ALL the French together. A king and a Queen would be most welcome for them on the trone of Louis the Saint.

If that is a solution for you regarding that issue and the one in Monaco, maybe you could ask Charlotte Casiragi if she is encline to spouse a prince d'Orléans, a Limburg Stirum or a Sambucy de Sorgue.

I appreciate creativity even within the strict limit of history.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Rani on January 16, 2010, 01:54:46 PM
I think Sarkozy is enough. We should be glad that we have democracy. It´s my opinion.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Nicolá De Valerón on January 16, 2010, 02:49:16 PM
For the man by his nature always is not enough;).

I must say that France have a very specific democracy. Nothing from classical Liberalism, free market, Adam Smith, Alfred Marshall, etc.....But anyway, it's better to have a "specific" and even not the best democracy (or better Liberalism) with big socialism supplement, than something else.

I also wonder, if the France have now any people (if they are exist, then how much?) who wanted restore Monarchy, 200 years after the Revolution? This must be a stupid question, but anyway. Can someone from France tell me this?

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Georges duke of Kent on January 17, 2010, 04:54:19 AM
I must say that the way you present the democracy in France implied that you ....already know little thing about the status of the Monarchy movement in France in 2010:

- the hope for Royalty's restoration is a state of mind within some circles: is monarchy the object of that hope? I would say it's more a hope to see a Orleans, a Bourbon Parme or a spanish Louis XX acting as a representant of the historical continuity within a parlementary monarchy.
- the hope for the restoration of imperial head of state exist among some institution or social group also. The late Prince Napoleon's family has a certain meaning here. Again, an imperial regime would be closer to the parlementary one then the Napoleon Ist ou Third one.

The monarchy movement is more underground now then it was in the 20's for instance, at the time when the Royal's were still banned from the Hexagone territory. But, if a prince or a duchess get married, if on January 21st there is a commemoration mass for the late Louis XVI, watch carefully the action happening inside big or little churches: you will see how much the enthousiasm for old nobility or obsolete name and title is important, even flamboyant. The late Count de Paris Henri d'Orléans has spent the first half of his 'bitterswet' life thinking that one day Général de Gaulle would show up in his living room and would ask him to be king of France. He lived that 'dream' because de Gaulle wanted that  state structure at one point. But in the middle of the 60's the Général change his mind....At that moment, Henri ( and the monarchist) saw  France's last chance to be entertain by king and queen fade away.

Nobility is still a reality in France. Private club and chasse a courre are good withness of it's vivid and proud way of maintaining inherited way of living. It's only the nature of their goods that has change and the fact that every one is working...No noodle tree for nobility! Monarchy is still...a spirit, a dream for few even some French people of all political point of view. You cannot presume that  all the members of the FN of JM Le Pen are monarchy supporters...and vice versa.

I hope these considerations may help your thought or reflection. Cte Guiramov
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Naslednik Norvezhskiy on January 17, 2010, 05:12:54 AM
Thank you, Monsieur le comte, for that very enlightening clarification! I will be having a look in French media on the upcoming anniversary of Louis XVI's death to look for any signs....

I now understand that the real chance for another French restoration disappeared when de Gaulle made up his mind in the 1960s. And that French monarchism is not limited to just one particular group. But I am still curious about Le Pen: IF he ever was a monarchist, he sure must have made some statements about his stance? Or does he prefer to let people not know and thus not alienate anybody?
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Georges duke of Kent on January 17, 2010, 05:22:00 AM
Dear I dont know if he personnally regrets Marie-Antoinette or Marie-Amélie. He speaks so fast on tv show that I hardly catch what he says! all I can tell is that yes there are monarchist in France who are against M. Le Pen. Have a good day again!
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Nicolá De Valerón on January 17, 2010, 07:59:42 AM
I must say that the way you present the democracy in France implied that you ....already know little thing about the status of the Monarchy movement in France in 2010:

- the hope for Royalty's restoration is a state of mind within some circles: is monarchy the object of that hope? I would say it's more a hope to see a Orleans, a Bourbon Parme or a spanish Louis XX acting as a representant of the historical continuity within a parlementary monarchy.
- the hope for the restoration of imperial head of state exist among some institution or social group also. The late Prince Napoleon's family has a certain meaning here. Again, an imperial regime would be closer to the parlementary one then the Napoleon Ist ou Third one.

The monarchy movement is more underground now then it was in the 20's for instance, at the time when the Royal's were still banned from the Hexagone territory. But, if a prince or a duchess get married, if on January 21st there is a commemoration mass for the late Louis XVI, watch carefully the action happening inside big or little churches: you will see how much the enthousiasm for old nobility or obsolete name and title is important, even flamboyant. The late Count de Paris Henri d'Orléans has spent the first half of his 'bitterswet' life thinking that one day Général de Gaulle would show up in his living room and would ask him to be king of France. He lived that 'dream' because de Gaulle wanted that  state structure at one point. But in the middle of the 60's the Général change his mind....At that moment, Henri ( and the monarchist) saw  France's last chance to be entertain by king and queen fade away.

Nobility is still a reality in France. Private club and chasse a courre are good withness of it's vivid and proud way of maintaining inherited way of living. It's only the nature of their goods that has change and the fact that every one is working...No noodle tree for nobility! Monarchy is still...a spirit, a dream for few even some French people of all political point of view. You cannot presume that  all the members of the FN of JM Le Pen are monarchy supporters...and vice versa.

I hope these considerations may help your thought or reflection. Cte Guiramov



Oh, such a big and detailed answer, thank you very much.

Yes, I know something about today's French democracy (or what French people get by this beautiful name;), but I can't say the same thing about my knowledge of a modern French Monarchical movements.

Count, thank you for the answer.
Title: Re: The restoration of Monarchy in France, pretenders and possibility
Post by: Rani on October 11, 2010, 07:27:35 AM
What a weird topic.