Alexander Palace Forum

General Category => Rules for This Forum => Topic started by: Annie on December 28, 2005, 08:06:34 PM

Title: Dear FA: Survivor forum has become a farce
Post by: Annie on December 28, 2005, 08:06:34 PM
While you have given us all freedom to discuss all different theories, the same ones keep being discussed around in circles, and become ridiculous and insulting. Far worse of all, it has become obvious that the same old participants who have argued before have now resorted to returning as 'newbies' making the same arguments and singling out the same posters they had grudges against in their 'previous lives.' It has become no more than a playground for the desperate and the looney, though I admit I am among those who cannot avoid it. You would be doing us all a favor if you locked it down at least temporarily.
Title: Re: Dear FA: Survivor forum has become a farce
Post by: Sian_Turner on March 28, 2006, 04:50:44 AM
Dear Annie

Just because people disagree with your opinions on the matter is not a case for shutting down a discussion.  Freedom of speech and thought is a basic right.  Also you need to provide evidence, as you are so keen on telling everyone, that people are returning as newbies.  To shut down the discussion is to deprive people of their right to discuss their own ideas however different they may be.

I'm quite disgusted that you feel it's ok to suggest such a thing.

Sian Turner
Title: Re: Dear FA: Survivor forum has become a farce
Post by: RealAnastasia on September 30, 2006, 07:16:42 PM
Dear Annie:

                   I stopped adding my posts in at the "Surviving Forum", when I realized that the ones who would think that there weren't any survivors wouldn't change their views, and that the ones who would believe that there were at least one or two survivors, wouldn't change theirs, either. I felt it was a waste of time, so I moved to other issues. I'm participating in other Forums (not the AP ones) about these topics, but I'm beginning to bore, since I'm yawning after reading pages and pages of the same theories supporting a side of the story or another. We are turning on circles.

                      I only wanted to said that I'm not one of the "oldies" who disguises herself under another name. I don't know if smeone is doing a so ridicoulous thing, as you claims. That's stupid, to aid the least. "Survivors" or not "Survivors", "Anna Anderson=FS" or "Anna Anderson=AN" , or "Anna Anerson= a third unknown woman", are not important issues in our lifes. I mean our daily lifes. I'm thinking in writing a book about Anna Anderson, but this fact doesn't make me an insane who sees the whole thing as a matter of honour or faithful feelings to her. I mean, I should never turn an historical discussion in a bloody fight were people from both sides are so ill that disguises themselves under other usernames, as if they were little boys or little girls hidding things to their parents.

                       For me, Anastasia's and survivor's stories are as important as other issues, and I will ALWAYS discuss them under the name of RealAnastasia, the one I choose here when I was a newbie. Lately, I also became member of other Romanov Forums (mainly focused in "Survivors" theories) and kept my old username, for people could follow my thoughts about these cases. I only changed my username in other Historical Forums that I'm member, for they aren't focused in Romanov's or Russian History (like the excellents www.theroyalforums.com)  where I'm myself, that's simply "Vanesa".

                        I wasn't around here since some time now (I was very busy with my own work), but here I am again, ready to discuss the Romanovs  again. However, you will not see me at the "Survivors" or "Claimants" Forums any more. It's a waste of time. Of course, I read them just to see if there is something new...A thing that never happens.

                          I'm happy to be here again after some two months of absence.

                          RealAnastasia.
Title: Re: Dear FA: Survivor forum has become a farce
Post by: LisaDavidson on October 03, 2006, 04:01:18 PM
Dear Annie:

                   I stopped adding my posts in at the "Surviving Forum", when I realized that the ones who would think that there weren't any survivors wouldn't change their views, and that the ones who would believe that there were at least one or two survivors, wouldn't change theirs, either. I felt it was a waste of time, so I moved to other issues. I'm participating in other Forums (not the AP ones) about these topics, but I'm beginning to bore, since I'm yawning after reading pages and pages of the same theories supporting a side of the story or another. We are turning on circles.

                      I only wanted to said that I'm not one of the "oldies" who disguises herself under another name. I don't know if smeone is doing a so ridicoulous thing, as you claims. That's stupid, to aid the least. "Survivors" or not "Survivors", "Anna Anderson=FS" or "Anna Anderson=AN" , or "Anna Anerson= a third unknown woman", are not important issues in our lifes. I mean our daily lifes. I'm thinking in writing a book about Anna Anderson, but this fact doesn't make me an insane who sees the whole thing as a matter of honour or faithful feelings to her. I mean, I should never turn an historical discussion in a bloody fight were people from both sides are so ill that disguises themselves under other usernames, as if they were little boys or little girls hidding things to their parents.

                       For me, Anastasia's and survivor's stories are as important as other issues, and I will ALWAYS discuss them under the name of RealAnastasia, the one I choose here when I was a newbie. Lately, I also became member of other Romanov Forums (mainly focused in "Survivors" theories) and kept my old username, for people could follow my thoughts about these cases. I only changed my username in other Historical Forums that I'm member, for they aren't focused in Romanov's or Russian History (like the excellents www.theroyalforums.com)  where I'm myself, that's simply "Vanesa".

                        I wasn't around here since some time now (I was very busy with my own work), but here I am again, ready to discuss the Romanovs  again. However, you will not see me at the "Survivors" or "Claimants" Forums any more. It's a waste of time. Of course, I read them just to see if there is something new...A thing that never happens.

                          I'm happy to be here again after some two months of absence.

                          RealAnastasia.

Vanessa/RealAnastasia: It's great to have you back here. I'm sorry you don't feel comfortable posting on the "Survivors" topic area. I think there's still a great deal to discuss in a responsible and respectful (to each other) manner. I know you can do this very well, so I hope you will reconsider.

There have been members who have come back under different names and posted on the Survivors and other threads. That does not necessarily mean that everyone who is "pro Survivors" is necessarily in those categories. I think our members have become justifyably upset when someone pretends to be a new person when in reality they are someone else who has been here before under another identity. Like you, I have always been "LisaDavidson" so people know with me, regardless if they share my views, that I am me.

Welcome back!
Title: Re: Dear FA: Survivor forum has become a farce
Post by: Annie on October 03, 2006, 04:11:02 PM
Before anyone else gives me a long lecture would you please consider the ancient date on this post? At that time, we were overrun by a bunch of very extreme AA supporters, many of them aliases or returning banned members, and AT THAT TIME it had become a farce. While I do believe that the DNA is conclusive and there is no need to discuss the identity of AA, only her story, the message I posted was meant for the time that I posted it, and it is not fair to drag it back up and lecture on it now that the forum has for the most part calmed down and become civil. I had wanted this post deleted ages ago to stop this but for months it was inaccessible to posters.
Title: Re: Dear FA: Survivor forum has become a farce
Post by: Tania+ on October 03, 2006, 04:15:07 PM
Dear RealAnastasia,

Welcome Back ! You have been missed. God Bless.

Tatiana+
Title: Re: Dear FA: Survivor forum has become a farce
Post by: LisaDavidson on October 03, 2006, 06:03:39 PM
Before anyone else gives me a long lecture would you please consider the ancient date on this post? At that time, we were overrun by a bunch of very extreme AA supporters, many of them aliases or returning banned members, and AT THAT TIME it had become a farce. While I do believe that the DNA is conclusive and there is no need to discuss the identity of AA, only her story, the message I posted was meant for the time that I posted it, and it is not fair to drag it back up and lecture on it now that the forum has for the most part calmed down and become civil. I had wanted this post deleted ages ago to stop this but for months it was inaccessible to posters.

Annie - if you will PM me or the FA, we can take a request for a deletion under consideration. Please give me the post number you want deleted.
Title: Re: Dear FA: Survivor forum has become a farce
Post by: RealAnastasia on October 03, 2006, 08:16:46 PM
Hi, Annie:

                  I was not pretending to "lecture you"...How in h**k am I to do so? Certainly  I'm not your mother, your teacher or someone who has authority over yourself, considering that both of us are grown up women...And if I answered an old topic, I'm sorry to do so. I only wanted to talk about something that I was experiencing not only here but in other forums, for I can't believe that people who are mature adults could do such childish things. I 'm here again after some time of absence, so I only consulted the threads when I came here again.

                  I do not think that the Survivors question is dead. But who cares? Here, we are not changing the world, nor the history . We are only unknow, unimportant people discussing some historical facts, about which we believe we know the truth. Sadly, I realize that, the AA's claim's believers, the AA opponents, the ones who believes in Survivors, the ones who believes not, we don't really know anything about these questions. We are not serious researchers about these matters, and without documents we can't do nothing. I'm thinking seriously to write a book about this issue, but for that I need to travel, and to see documents. Before this, I'll remain silent about "Survivors" in these Forums.  There are other more interesting and beatiful issues about the IF when they were alive...

                    Thank you for your warm "welcome back", Tania! How do you do? I missed you too. Hope you are doing well.  And thank you to LisaDavidson too, and thank you to Annie. I can't help but confess that I wanted to ost here again...and that I lurked here a lot! LOL  ;)

RealAnastasia.
Title: Re: Dear FA: Survivor forum has become a farce
Post by: RealAnastasia on October 03, 2006, 10:38:29 PM
Sorry..."ost" mean nothing. I wanted to write "post"...I have a new keyboard and its keys are very soft... ;D

RealAnastasia.
Title: Re: Dear FA: Survivor forum has become a farce
Post by: Belochka on October 03, 2006, 10:49:20 PM
The entire "survivor" thread needs to be deleted!!!

Such fantasies have no place in a forum that permits rigorous discussion of Russian history and other fields of genuine historic interest.

Margarita
Title: Re: Dear FA: Survivor forum has become a farce
Post by: LisaDavidson on October 04, 2006, 02:49:48 PM
With all due respect to you, Margarita, the management of this Forum has the right to allow whatever discussion it chooses to permit. Members are welcome to use the topic areas of interest to them. There is a wide diversity of topics here - something for everyone. I do not appreciate being told what is and is not to be discussed here by anyone other than Bob Atchison.
Title: Re: Dear FA: Survivor forum has become a farce
Post by: Forum Admin on October 04, 2006, 03:00:14 PM
Regardless of the fact that DNA testing has now conclusively shown that the "main" survivor claimants were not as claimed, and can now prove or disprove any other claims brought, the inescapable FACT remains as well that the literally dozens, if not hundreds, of survivor claimants since 1918 are a part of the story.  There is no reason why people should not discuss their claims and their stories.  I for one find the story of Anna Anderson interesting, obviously NOT as her "being" AN since she was not, but just who WAS this poor delusional woman in reality? How did she end up being "the best of the fakes" as the Romanov family used to say?

We don't use this section to promote claimants, but rather I think it valuable to allow discussion of their stories, and show how and why their stories just aren't true.
Title: Re: Dear FA: Survivor forum has become a farce
Post by: Belochka on October 05, 2006, 01:10:49 AM
posting deleted
Title: Re: Dear FA: Survivor forum has become a farce
Post by: Helen_Azar on October 05, 2006, 05:40:38 PM
I kind of like the Survivor section -  it really gives one an insight into human psychology!  I learned a lot about psychiatric deviances there, among other things  8).
Title: Re: Dear FA: Survivor forum has become a farce
Post by: Eddie_uk on October 14, 2006, 10:40:40 AM


I'm quite disgusted that you feel it's ok to suggest such a thing.

Sian Turner

But it is freedom of speech, as you advocate :)
Title: Re: Dear FA: Survivor forum has become a farce
Post by: zackattack on October 14, 2006, 01:42:27 PM
Regardless of the fact that DNA testing has now conclusively shown that the "main" survivor claimants were not as claimed, and can now prove or disprove any other claims brought, the inescapable FACT remains as well that the literally dozens, if not hundreds, of survivor claimants since 1918 are a part of the story.  There is no reason why people should not discuss their claims and their stories.  I for one find the story of Anna Anderson interesting, obviously NOT as her "being" AN since she was not, but just who WAS this poor delusional woman in reality? How did she end up being "the best of the fakes" as the Romanov family used to say?

We don't use this section to promote claimants, but rather I think it valuable to allow discussion of their stories, and show how and why their stories just aren't true.

Yes, but why include Anna Anderson's story in the section of the forum dedicated to the question of "survivors"?  Clearly she wasn't a survivor . Perhaps  it might be better to have all material relating to her in a "discredited survivor" section....

Perhaps it can even be called the "dustbin"..... ;D   
Title: Re: Dear FA: Survivor forum has become a farce
Post by: Sarushka on October 14, 2006, 04:07:27 PM
Yes, but why include Anna Anderson's story in the section of the forum dedicated to the question of "survivors"?  Clearly she wasn't a survivor . Perhaps  it might be better to have all material relating to her in a "discredited survivor" section....

Perhaps it can even be called the "dustbin"..... ;D   

Such a fuss over semantics! In reality, that forum is NOT called simply "Survivors". Here's the true name and description, as they appear on the main forum listing:

The Question of Survivors
Anastasia and the enduring myth of "survival" of members of the Imperial Family.


Note the word 'question' in the title, and the use of quotation marks around 'survial' in the description. I think it's fairly clear from that alone how the forum management feels about the topic of survival...
Title: Re: Dear FA: Survivor forum has become a farce
Post by: Forum Admin on October 14, 2006, 05:00:17 PM
myth 
–noun
1.   a traditional or legendary story, usually concerning some being or hero or event, with or without a determinable basis of fact or a natural explanation, esp. one that is concerned with deities or demigods and explains some practice, rite, or phenomenon of nature.
2.   stories or matter of this kind: realm of myth.
3.   any invented story, idea, or concept: His account of the event is pure myth.
4.   an imaginary or fictitious thing or person.
5.   an unproved or false collective belief that is used to justify a social institution.

"The enduring MYTH of "survival..."


A fuss over semantics INDEED.  ;D
Title: Re: Dear FA: Survivor forum has become a farce
Post by: Annie on October 14, 2006, 05:25:01 PM
I even saw someone once get mad that 'myth' was in quotations like it meant it wasn't true ::)

And yes, Eddie, some people who whine about 'free speech' for THEIR side forget that it goes BOTH ways, and those of us who disagree have a right to our say, too! Their idea of 'free speech' is they get to say whatever they want, and anyone who doesn't agree needs to shut up and go away.
Title: Re: Dear FA: Survivor forum has become a farce
Post by: zackattack on October 18, 2006, 02:39:52 AM
Yes, but why include Anna Anderson's story in the section of the forum dedicated to the question of "survivors"?  Clearly she wasn't a survivor . Perhaps  it might be better to have all material relating to her in a "discredited survivor" section....

Perhaps it can even be called the "dustbin"..... ;D   

Such a fuss over semantics! In reality, that forum is NOT called simply "Survivors". Here's the true name and description, as they appear on the main forum listing:

The Question of Survivors
Anastasia and the enduring myth of "survival" of members of the Imperial Family.


Note the word 'question' in the title, and the use of quotation marks around 'survial' in the description. I think it's fairly clear from that alone how the forum management feels about the topic of survival...

Hardy-har-har both of you. Very funny. :D :-*

The word "Question" can be interpreted in different ways to different users, and I DID notice the quotation marks around survival, which are redundant because the word myth has already been used. And why have two sections that are meant as a joke, both the "survivors" and "claimants" section?

So why not an archive section much like the online book section?There are people who would like to discuss these people without having annoying and bizzare theories of survival pop up. I do know people who might be interested in posting their archives on Anna Anderson online, and I have my own collection, I also have these age progression photographs of all 5 imperial children and Anna Anderson which I"ve been meaning to post, for,oh 2 years or so now...

It's just a suggestion!

Commence my  roasting!   

Title: Re: Dear FA: Survivor forum has become a farce
Post by: Forum Admin on October 18, 2006, 09:23:31 AM
The "Claimants" section was originally created for those who were actually making the claims to post in. When the forum was first up, we had several people at a time claiming to be the children/grandchildren etc of the survivors, so we wanted to relegate them to just one restricted area rather than have them pollute the history discussions.  Their claims were so spurious,often ludicrous, and were never ever ever supported with one shred of genuine evidence, so they all either left in a huff, were suspended for offensive behavior or threatened to sue us and so were permanently banned.

Isn't the forum a quieter place now without them? less entertaining perhaps, but far more civilised.

Title: Re: Dear FA: Survivor forum has become a farce
Post by: Anastasia Spalko on June 30, 2009, 01:52:27 PM
I read somewhere that Anna Anderson was probably a Polish factory worker named Fransiska Shankowska, which is probably spelled wrong.  Just thought I might say that.
Title: Re: Dear FA: Survivor forum has become a farce
Post by: CorisCapnSkip on August 09, 2009, 11:51:46 PM
It was great the way the forum was renamed "The Myth and Legends of Survivors" the day the discovery of the last two bodies was announced!
Title: Re: Dear FA: Survivor forum has become a farce
Post by: Anastasia Spalko on August 10, 2009, 07:01:14 PM
Ha!  That's hilarious!
Title: Re: Dear FA: Survivor forum has become a farce
Post by: Zecharia on January 10, 2010, 11:37:00 PM
Regardless of the fact that DNA testing has now conclusively shown that the "main" survivor claimants were not as claimed, and can now prove or disprove any other claims brought, the inescapable FACT remains as well that the literally dozens, if not hundreds, of survivor claimants since 1918 are a part of the story.  There is no reason why people should not discuss their claims and their stories.  I for one find the story of Anna Anderson interesting, obviously NOT as her "being" AN since she was not, but just who WAS this poor delusional woman in reality? How did she end up being "the best of the fakes" as the Romanov family used to say?

We don't use this section to promote claimants, but rather I think it valuable to allow discussion of their stories, and show how and why their stories just aren't true.
AN was maybe poor delusional women, but what about her attorney? Did he really belive her or he want only got money from it?
Title: Re: Dear FA: Survivor forum has become a farce
Post by: Rasputin on June 22, 2010, 02:38:54 AM
Regardless of the fact that DNA testing has now conclusively shown that the "main" survivor claimants were not as claimed, and can now prove or disprove any other claims brought, the inescapable FACT remains as well that the literally dozens, if not hundreds, of survivor claimants since 1918 are a part of the story.  There is no reason why people should not discuss their claims and their stories.  I for one find the story of Anna Anderson interesting, obviously NOT as her "being" AN since she was not, but just who WAS this poor delusional woman in reality? How did she end up being "the best of the fakes" as the Romanov family used to say?

We don't use this section to promote claimants, but rather I think it valuable to allow discussion of their stories, and show how and why their stories just aren't true.
AN was maybe poor delusional women, but what about her attorney? Did he really belive her or he want only got money from it?
No comment ;)
Title: Re: Dear FA: Survivor forum has become a farce
Post by: susana on July 21, 2010, 02:07:58 PM
Actually her attorney must have believed in her as he bankrupted himself to try to prove it to be true.