Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => The Hohenzollern => Topic started by: Danjel on December 29, 2005, 12:30:33 PM

Title: Handicapped German Princes and Princesses
Post by: Danjel on December 29, 2005, 12:30:33 PM
I'm very much interested to find any pics of these princesses as adults. I know they both were/are institutionalized, but does anyone have a photo of these princesses?
Title: Re: Handicapped German Princes and Princesses
Post by: Linnea on December 30, 2005, 04:11:40 AM
I think there is a topic around on Princess Alexandrine of Prussia (1915-1980), daughter of Crown Princess Wilhelm of Prussia and Duchess Cecilie of Mecklenburg-Schwerin.

Title: Re: Handicapped German Princes and Princesses
Post by: Linnea on December 30, 2005, 04:16:09 AM
(http://www.seegerpress-online.de/topixx/data/pre-SEEGER00000138.jpg)
Title: Re: Handicapped German Princes and Princesses
Post by: José on December 30, 2005, 11:41:12 AM
I know Cornélie is handicapped.
What does she suffer from ? Down's syndrom ?
Title: Re: Handicapped German Princes and Princesses
Post by: Marlene on February 01, 2006, 02:06:39 PM
Quote
I'm very much interested to find any pics of these princesses as adults. I know they both were/are institutionalized, but does anyone have a photo of these princesses?


I have one photo of Alexandrine as a woman in her 20s, and that may have been the last time she was photographed in public.  She had Down's syndrome, and was institutionalized before the second world war, and remained in various institutions until her death.  She did not attend family events.

Cornelie Cecilie has not attended any family events in some years.  I suspect she also suffers from Down's Syndrome.
Title: Re: Handicapped German Princes and Princesses
Post by: Dmitry Russian on December 20, 2006, 05:06:26 AM
I know, that the successor of Prussian royal family and a crown of German Empire Georg-Friedrich Hogenzollern has the sister. This sister is name Cornelia Cecilia. It was born in 1978.  Unfortunately, I could not find a photo of Cornelia Cecilia. Somebody can place its photos here? I shall be very grateful.
Title: Re: Handicapped German Princes and Princesses
Post by: Marlene on December 20, 2006, 08:28:51 AM

Her name is Cornelie Cecilie.  She is mentally handicapped and lives in a home.  She appeared in photos at her mother's second marriage a decade or so ago.

I know, that the successor of Prussian royal family and a crown of German Empire Georg-Friedrich Hogenzollern has the sister. This sister is name Cornelia Cecilia. It was born in 1978.  Unfortunately, I could not find a photo of Cornelia Cecilia. Somebody can place its photos here? I shall be very grateful.
Title: Re: Handicapped German Princes and Princesses
Post by: W. on December 20, 2006, 08:52:21 AM
hello

her full name is:

Cornelie-Cecile Viktoria Irene von Hohenzollern, Princess of Prussia, * 1978

and I try to find a pic for you
Title: Re: Handicapped German Princes and Princesses
Post by: Marlene on December 20, 2006, 09:31:25 AM

von Hohenzollern IS NOT a part of her name

Prinzessin von Preussen is the surname (or title)

hello

her full name is:

Cornelie-Cecile Viktoria Irene von Hohenzollern, Princess of Prussia, * 1978

and I try to find a pic for you
Title: Re: Handicapped German Princes and Princesses
Post by: W. on December 21, 2006, 03:17:32 AM
Dear Marlene

you totaly wrong on that.

Title cant be familyname! this familyname is von Hohenzollern.

(and please belive me I m baltic german and my familyname and title are separated as well.)


"von" means "from" in german, and this family is from Hohenzollern

http://www.hohenzollern.com/

Title: Re: Handicapped German Princes and Princesses
Post by: Marlene on December 21, 2006, 08:49:05 AM


I am totally right. 

You provided the link to the PRINCELY FAMILY  - Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen --where the head of the family is the Fürst von Hohenzollern - and members of the family are princes or princesess of Hohenzollern.  (and have the legal surname Prinz or Prinzessin von Hohenzollern.

The former Kaiserliche branch - descendants of the Kings of Prussia and German Emperors -- are von Preussen not von Hohenzollern (the House name is Hohenzollern),  but the title is Prince or Princess of Prussia, and the legal surname is Prinz or Prinzessin von Preussen.


The royal house is the House of Hohenzollern with the title Prince or Princess of Prussia 
and the rank HRH

The princely house is Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen with the title Prince or Princess of Hohenzollern and the rank HSH

Please visit www.preussen.de

Dear Marlene

you totaly wrong on that.

Title cant be familyname! this familyname is von Hohenzollern.

(and please belive me I m baltic german and my familyname and title are separated as well.)


"von" means "from" in german, and this family is from Hohenzollern

http://www.hohenzollern.com/


Title: Re: Handicapped German Princes and Princesses
Post by: W. on December 21, 2006, 09:05:29 AM
Im agree to all you said, but you tryed to tell in first letter, than Hohenzollern is not the part of the name!

you cant avoid familyname and only use a title use title (many members of this family has more than one title and its not propriate use them all together- you use the firstone and on that you are right Prints von Preussen.)
Title: Re: Handicapped German Princes and Princesses
Post by: Marlene on December 21, 2006, 09:59:14 AM
FYI

I know rather a lot about the Prussians and the princely hohenzollerns - as I am an expert on Queen Victoria's descendants, and have written several books.  Moreover,  I also happen to know members of both families - so am well familiar with family names, titles, etc. 
Im agree to all you said, but you tryed to tell in first letter, than Hohenzollern is not the part of the name!

you cant avoid familyname and only use a title use title (many members of this family has more than one title and its not propriate use them all together- you use the firstone and on that you are right Prints von Preussen.)
Title: Re: Handicapped German Princes and Princesses
Post by: Dmitry Russian on December 24, 2006, 05:38:35 PM
What a pity, that this girl mentally retarded! What happens with it?
Title: Re: Handicapped German Princes and Princesses
Post by: britt.25 on December 27, 2006, 09:46:24 AM
I will ask Caroline Napoléon to write her a card and send her flowers for her next birthday ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Handicapped German Princes and Princesses
Post by: W. on December 27, 2006, 11:04:52 AM
FYI

I know rather a lot about the Prussians and the princely hohenzollerns - as I am an expert on Queen Victoria's descendants, and have written several books.  Moreover,  I also happen to know members of both families - so am well familiar with family names, titles, etc. 


Dear Marlene

Im sorry if i insolted a professional an expert on Queen Victoria´s descendance.

onlyest reason why I talk about this subject is, that I m related with Hohenzollern family and Im origin german baltic- old reglement, how is proper to call royal family and how it must be is still existing. and in ewery country they have diferenties.

with christmas greetings:

V.A.v.W
Title: Re: Handicapped German Princes and Princesses
Post by: allanraymond on December 27, 2006, 08:09:52 PM
Somewhat off topic on my part.

The Princely Family of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen and the Royal House of Prussia are assumed to originate from the two sons of Count Friedrich of Hohenzollern (or Zollern)(died about 1200).

The younger son Conrad (Konrad) (died about 1260) being the ancester of the Royal House of Prussia.

Along the way (in 1417) this line was invested with the Electorate of Brandenburg.

Which in 1701 culminated in the title King in Prussia (later King of of Prussia).

Were the very early ancesters of the Royal line titled Prince/Princess of Hohenzollern until it was elevated to Electorate of Brandenburg, and did they then become Prince/Princess of  Brandenburg until the Kingdom of (in/of) Prussia came into being in 1701?

Thanks

Allan Raymond

      
I am totally right. 

You provided the link to the PRINCELY FAMILY  - Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen --where the head of the family is the Fürst von Hohenzollern - and members of the family are princes or princesess of Hohenzollern.  (and have the legal surname Prinz or Prinzessin von Hohenzollern.

The former Kaiserliche branch - descendants of the Kings of Prussia and German Emperors -- are von Preussen not von Hohenzollern (the House name is Hohenzollern),  but the title is Prince or Princess of Prussia, and the legal surname is Prinz or Prinzessin von Preussen.


The royal house is the House of Hohenzollern with the title Prince or Princess of Prussia 
and the rank HRH

The princely house is Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen with the title Prince or Princess of Hohenzollern and the rank HSH

Please visit www.preussen.de
Title: Re: Handicapped German Princes and Princesses
Post by: TampaBay on January 05, 2007, 06:25:46 AM
The Princely Family of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen seem to have done vey well for themselves.

TampaBay
Title: Re: Handicapped German Princes and Princesses
Post by: grandduchessella on January 07, 2007, 09:34:11 PM
I hadn't realized she was born after her father died. That's so sad but her mother must've felt it a blessing to have this child after losing her husband (in an accident during military maneuvres) at such a young age--he was just 33. From the royal forums:

"Cornelie Cécile is, to quote Marlene Eilers Koenig 'Severely retarded'. Sam Dotson once described it like this (well he is a doctor): 'became neurologically handicapped as the result of a perinatal infection, encephalitis caused by cytorhegalovinus"

Here's a picture of her brother George Friedrich:

http://www.nettyroyal.nl/images/georgfr.jpg

Are either of these children close to their Vladimir relations? Not only were Kira and Vladimir siblings but Vladimir's daughter (and heir) married into one of the Hohenzollern branches.

Title: Re: Handicapped German Princes and Princesses
Post by: tecklenburg on May 03, 2008, 05:44:07 AM
hey everybody !

can someone make a list of german princes (or european) who suffered from porphyria like ther ascendant King George III of Great-Britain?
Do you know other princes affected by handicaps?

I already know that HR&IH the crown prince had one daughter (Princess Alexandrine of Preussen)
I must'n't have been the unique case...

Thanks !
Title: Re: Handicapped German Princes and Princesses
Post by: julia.montague on May 03, 2008, 05:55:10 AM
As far as I know Alexandrine suffered from Down-Syndrom, but Charlotte of Prussia and her daughter Feodora had prophyria.
Title: Re: Handicapped German Princes and Princesses
Post by: grandduchessella on May 03, 2008, 08:27:11 AM
Prince Max of Erbach (son of Marie Battenberg) suffered from some handicap (I don't know its name specifically) that left him unable to communicate or move on his own. He didn't die as an infant but he died at a fairly young age--14.

Of course, Kaiser Wilhelm suffered from a deformed arm.
Title: Re: Handicapped German Princes and Princesses
Post by: Adagietto on May 03, 2008, 05:53:54 PM
Princess Adelheid ('Adi') of saxe-Meiningen (1891-1971), who married Prince Adlabert, son of Kaiser Wilhelm, seems to have suffered from porphyria, as does her sister Feodora (1890-1972), who was married to Wilhelm Ernst, last Grand Duke of Saxe-Weimar-Eisenach. They both had recurrent bad health with mental disturbance.
Title: Re: Handicapped German Princes and Princesses
Post by: eejm on May 10, 2008, 02:35:51 PM
Both Ernest Augustus I of Hanover and George V of Hanover (his son) were blind.  George became blind as a teenager, and his father in his later adulthood. 

Augustus Frederick, son of Prince Augustus, Duke of Sussex, who himself was the son of George III of the UK, very likely suffered from multiple sclerosis.  The disease was not identified during his lifetime, but symptoms he recorded in his diary over many years are very consistent with the disease.

Although not German princes, Prince Erik of Sweden (1889-1918) and Prince John of the UK (1905-1919) both had disabilities.  Both Princes were epileptic; Erik was mentally disabled and John likely had Asperger's Syndrome. 

And way back in the 13th century, Henry III of England had a deaf daughter, Katherine, who died at the age of three.
Title: Re: Handicapped German Princes and Princesses
Post by: Lucien on March 20, 2009, 01:28:41 PM
I've decided that Ferfried belongs in this thread.Definitely! ::)

He was at it again,the family member all can do without.

This walking embarrasment of a Hohenzollern was found drunk as a skunk in someones holiday home yesterday.
(Seriously,one wonders who threw that brick to his kopf once.....)

They first thought he passed away,only to find out he just passed out..... :-X
Title: Re: Handicapped German Princes and Princesses
Post by: Thomas_Hesse on March 23, 2009, 11:44:57 AM
Friedrich Wilhelm IV. of Prussia as well as Kings Otto and Ludwig II of Bavaria were mentally disabled. FW IV. in his later adulthood
Title: Re: Handicapped German Princes and Princesses
Post by: HerrKaiser on March 24, 2009, 04:55:45 PM
Prince Max of Erbach (son of Marie Battenberg) suffered from some handicap (I don't know its name specifically) that left him unable to communicate or move on his own. He didn't die as an infant but he died at a fairly young age--14.

Of course, Kaiser Wilhelm suffered from a deformed arm.

I think Wilhelm's arm was not actually a deformity. It was an injury during his birth process that never repaired properly and did not develop.
Title: Re: Handicapped German Princes and Princesses
Post by: princessalice on September 04, 2011, 08:17:51 PM
I believe there has been some study done that suggests Wilhelm II, last Prussian Kaiser, may even have suffered some brain damage at birth.  the birth was certainly horrific, both he and his mother nearly died, and Wilhelm was actually deprived of oxygen and did take some minutes to breath.  my family had this happen with my own sister and she sustained brain damage also.  from his behavior and out of control actions, i would certainly think something was physically wrong with the man.
Title: Re: Handicapped German Princes and Princesses
Post by: Zukunftsseele on September 05, 2011, 04:28:11 PM
Alexandrine of Prussia:

(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb201/zukunftsseele/Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-2003-1014-505_Potsdam_Kronprinzessin_Cecilie_mit_ihren_Tchtern.jpg)
Deutsches Bundesarchiv (German Federal Archive)

(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb201/zukunftsseele/alexandrine_tochter_kropri_wilhelm_cecilie_INTERNET.jpg)
from preussen.de

She had down-syndrome and her family luckily didn't try to hide her. It went without saying that she was a member like any other of the royal / imperial family. She grew up in Potsdam and Oels with her family. From 1932 - 1934 she attended a special school for kids with cognitive and physical problems in Jena, called Trüpersche Sonderschule. In 1935 she went back to Potsdam and in 1936 she moved to Niederpöcking in Bavaria and stayed there during WWII. Afterwards, she moved into a little house at Lake Starnberg where she lived until her death in 1980.

Princess Cornelie-Cecilie of Prussia at the wedding of Georg-Friedrich of Hohenzollern with Princess Sophie of Isenburg in August 2011
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb201/zukunftsseele/topTeaser_crop_Mutter-Donata-Herzogin-von-Oldenburg-und-Schwester-Prinzessin-Cornelie-Cecilie-begleiten-den-Br-utigam-zur-kirchlichen-Trauun.jpg)
Title: Re: Handicapped German Princes and Princesses
Post by: Kalafrana on September 07, 2011, 04:17:10 AM
Friedrich Wilhelm IV became disabled in the late 1850s as the result of a series of strokes. Previously he had been a highly talented man who designed various buildings in Potsdam (he said he would far rather have been an architect than a king). They include one of the churches, which has in it a magnificent Byzantine mosaic discovered when he was travelling in southern Italy as Crown Prince. Hearing that the church the mosaic was in was about to be dismolished, FW bought the mosaic, had it dismantled and crated up, and designed a new church to house it.

I'm no expert on architecture, but FW's buildings are very pleasant - he was clearly a man with excellent taste.

Ann