Alexander Palace Forum
Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => The Wittlesbachs => Topic started by: MegWhite on February 07, 2006, 10:28:44 AM
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I am searching for pictures of Max Emanuel and his familiy. :)
Thanks for pics. :-*
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Not really I have a nice one of her as an adult from my collection, and one in fancy dress via the Royal Archievs from Windsor. I think the real rarity is one of her and the kids, I have NEVER saw one of that nor one of the whole family. :(
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It isn't a problem if you go to the archives, of course. In Vienna they have lots of pics.
But there is only one rare German book in which you can find a pic of Amalie and Max Emanuel: "Kaiserin Elisabeth in 200 Bildern" by Gertrude Aretz.
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I didn't find a lot in the Wittelsbach Archievs in Munich on Max Emannuel., Maybe Vienna had more ? ???
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In Vienna you can find 37 pics of Amalie and and 9 pics of Max Emanuel. But there aren't any pics of the whole family.
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the only one I have in my collection is the postcard of the bridal couple.
So they have at the "Nationalbibliothek" in Vienna.
I think it's pretty hard to find pics of Amalie Coburg when she was an adult.
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I got the cdv after the wedding with Amalie holding the flowers. ;)
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I found in this website
www.nottingham.ac.uk/mss/online/ online-mss catalogues/cats/buchanan_intro.html (a catalogue of the papers of Sir Andrew Buchanan, a distinguished 19th -century diplomat ) this interesting note:
Letter from Sir Henry Ponsonby, Balmoral Castle, Scotland, to Sir Andrew Buchanan, Vienna, Austria; 5 June 1875:
"Informs him that the Queen has told him privately that she regrets the marriage of Prince Maximillian of Bavaria and Princess Amalie of Saxe Coburg Gotha; she [the Queen] has wished Amalie to marry a'good man' and fears that the Prince is not suitable; it is requested that he [Buchanan] confidentially pass on any information relating to the Prince and also express a personal opinion of him".
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I found in this website
www.nottingham.ac.uk/mss/online/ online-mss catalogues/cats/buchanan_intro.html (a catalogue of the papers of Sir Andrew Buchanan, a distinguished 19th -century diplomat ) this interesting note:
Letter from Sir Henry Ponsonby, Balmoral Castle, Scotland, to Sir Andrew Buchanan, Vienna, Austria; 5 June 1875:
"Informs him that the Queen has told him privately that she regrets the marriage of Prince Maximillian of Bavaria and Princess Amalie of Saxe Coburg Gotha; she [the Queen] has wished Amalie to marry a'good man' and fears that the Prince is not suitable; it is requested that he [Buchanan] confidentially pass on any information relating to the Prince and also express a personal opinion of him".
Maybe QV thought that Max Emanuel wasn´t a good catch as he was only the third son of a non-reigning duke... :-?
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I think Queen Victoria meant his character. That's why she requested Sir Andrew Buchanan to pass more information and express his personal oppinion of Max Emanuel. Perhaps Queen Victoria thought the family of the Dukes in Bavaria were too eccentric.True, Max Emmanuel was only the third son of a non-reigning duke, but still he was the brother of the Empress of Austria.
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Yes...especially after the audience with his sister the Empress of Austria. True...Queen Victoria always inquire if there is money in the family... :o
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Is there a pic with only Amalie on it?
I've never seen one.. :-?
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I got one, but cannot scan it... :(
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Is there a pic with only Amalie on it?
I've never seen one.. :-?
I've got two of them. They were on eBay some time ago and their quality isn't the best, but I will post them later.
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At one time Amalie was engaged to Prince Leopold of Bavaria who was the future husband of Archduchess Gisela, why was there engagement broken? Did Clementine try to find a more brilliant match for her daughter? Did Max Emanuel and Amalie marry for love ?
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Pierce, the bio about Empress Elisabeth writted by Brigitte Hamann, "Reluctand Empress", referes that the empress knew so well that her brother Mapperl was in madly in love with Amalia, but the princess was engaged to Leopold, and Leopold was a suitable match to Gisela...So, the empress sent an invitation to hunting at Gödöllo Palace to prince Leopold. At Gödöllo, Leopold and Gisela became engaged, and a few years later, Elisabeth arranged the marriage of Amalia with Mapperl.
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Sisi was a nice big sister to Max, to sacrifice her daughter in exchange for her brother's happiness. I guess even Clementine cannot argue with the Empress of Austria.
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Thanks Yseult, I read" Relunctant Empress " years ago I had forgot where I got that piece of information from about Leopold and Amalie being engaged. I thank you for reminding me of the source.
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On the web some time ago-I don't know the name of the site,since it was in german,but I know that it was said to be her...
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No I think it was her. Her resemblence to Foxy Ferdinand of Bulgaria was striking ! It could be Foxy in drag ! ;)
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I agree. The girl looks too much like Princess Clémentine not to be either Clotilde or Amalie (I do think she is Amalie).
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Yes...I think Amalie's sister (who married a Hapsburg) was a brunette. while she was a blonde.
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The painting of Amalie Princess of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha, Max Emanuel's beloved wife, by Winterhalter is currently for sale on eBay !!!
Link: http://cgi.ebay.de/Franz-Xaver-WINTERHALTER-1806-1873-authentic-oil_W0QQitemZ140038744528QQihZ004QQcategoryZ20129QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.de/Franz-Xaver-WINTERHALTER-1806-1873-authentic-oil_W0QQitemZ140038744528QQihZ004QQcategoryZ20129QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
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I would like to know if Schloß Biederstein in Münich ,where Max Emmanuel lived with his family still exists? Any pictures?
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I would like to know if Schloß Biederstein in Münich ,where Max Emmanuel lived with his family still exists? Any pictures?
No, it doesn't exist anymore. The park was sold in 1928/29 and some years later the interior of Biederstein was auctioned. In 1934 the so-called "Neue Schloss" was pulled down. The rest of the building had been destroyed during WW II.
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Thanks. Such a pity it doesn't exist anymore. After the death of Max Emmanuel and Amelie, who lived there till the 1920's? Their children? Interesting that the interiors were auctioned. Is there a catalogue of this auction?
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Thanks. Such a pity it doesn't exist anymore. After the death of Max Emmanuel and Amelie, who lived there till the 1920's? Their children? Interesting that the interiors were auctioned. Is there a catalogue of this auction?
Yes, their sons lived at Biederstein. But they didn't have enough money, so the buildings became shabby.
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As to the Winterhalter portrait, Queen Victoria often commissioned copies made of ones she particularly liked, especially in the case of her various continental relatives. In this case, she actually painted the copy herself in 1851. She had it placed in Buckingham Palace and it later moved from there to Windsor and then to Osborne.
Queen Victoria's opinion on Amalie was that she was clever but not pretty.
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That's right. As most of the Coburgs, she had a strange nose. Amalie's niece Archduchess Marie Valérie also wrote that her aunt talked through her nose and that she spoke very slowly. But I think that Amalie's sister Clotilde was quite pretty.
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The Coburg children took after their mother Clémentine who herself looked a lot like her father King Louis-Philippe. She inherited his somewhat heavy features. They all had the Bourbon nose.
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Their children? Interesting that the interiors were auctioned. Is there a catalogue of this auction?
Didn´t Prince Joseph of Bavaria, the grandson of Max Emanuel´s sister Sophie, buy a lot of these auctioned interiors?
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Their children? Interesting that the interiors were auctioned. Is there a catalogue of this auction?
Didn´t Prince Joseph of Bavaria, the grandson of Max Emanuel´s sister Sophie, buy a lot of these auctioned interiors?
Joseph Clemens Prince of Bavaria, son of Max Emanuel's niece Louise d'Orléans and Alfons Prince of Bavaria, was an art historian. He had lots of things, but I've never heard that he also bought parts of the interior of Biederstein. Where did you get this information from, Linnea? I mean, it could be possible: Joseph Clemens was born in 1902 and the auction took place in 1929-1934, so he would have been old enough to buy some things.
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I must confess that I do not remember where I get this information from, I only recall the fact that Joseph was said to have bought a lot at this auction and wondered if anybody else had also heard about this?
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Back to the subject. ;) It is always nice when the family buy back its own heirlooms. I wonder what pieces were bought back from the auction. ???
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Back to the subject. ;) It is always nice when the family buy back its own heirlooms. I wonder what pieces were bought back from the auction. ???
Maybe we should contact Jean Louis Schlim. Do you know him? He is quite famous in Bavaria, because he wrote many books about Ludwig II. and he has a huge private collection. But what I wanted to say: Schlim was in contact to Prince Joseph Clemens of Bavaria. If Joseph Clemens had bought something at this auction, Schlim would know that. Should I have a try?
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That would be great if you can give it a go ! Since I do not know him. (wish I did) :(
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That would be great if you can give it a go ! Since I do not know him. (wish I did) :(
I don't know him either. But I have his email and I know another guy who is quite close to him. So I'll give it a try.
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One question and one request:
1. What was the reason of the early deaths of Max-Emmanuel and his wife Amalia of Sx.Coburg at 44 and 46 y.old ?
2. Has someone a pic of Anna Sibig, Pr.Christopher's wife ?
Thanks in advance
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1. What was the reason of the early deaths of Max-Emmanuel and his wife Amalia of Sx.Coburg at 44 and 46 y.old ?
Max Emanuel died of gastric haemorrhage, maybe he had a cancer of the stomach. Amalie's was heartbroken after her husband's death. She lost the will to live. In 1894 she died of peritonitis.
2. Has someone a pic of Anna Sibig, Pr.Christopher's wife ?
Never seen any ...
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Max Emanuel died of gastric haemorrhage, maybe he had a cancer of the stomach. Amalie's was heartbroken after her husband's death. She lost the will to live. In 1894 she died of peritonitis.
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Such a sad story :-[
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Yes...One of the few Coburgs who have a heart. ::)
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All the photos posted on this topic, i can't see at all, can someone repost them, :'( please! :)
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All the photos posted on this topic, i can't see at all, can someone repost them, :'( please! :)
Hello, Mandy! I understand you...I always feel sad when a I find that all the pictures from a thread are removed :( Well, I don´t know what pictures were posted here, but I can post the few I have of Mapperl:
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll205/EnaBatt/BAVARIA/MaxEmanuelMapperl.jpg)
Mapperl and Amalia wedding (I´m pretty sure the provenance of this image is just this board, I believe I did save it because it was the first picture I´ve seen of the couple...):
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll205/EnaBatt/BAVARIA/MaxEmanuelandwifeAmalieofSaxe-Cobur.jpg)
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They were a pretty couple and happy too.
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Thank you, Yseult :)
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Sad their line died out.
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Yes, and a pity, that both died so young. :(
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Pierce, the bio about Empress Elisabeth writted by Brigitte Hamann, "Reluctand Empress", referes that the empress knew so well that her brother Mapperl was in madly in love with Amalia, but the princess was engaged to Leopold, and Leopold was a suitable match to Gisela...So, the empress sent an invitation to hunting at Gödöllo Palace to prince Leopold. At Gödöllo, Leopold and Gisela became engaged, and a few years later, Elisabeth arranged the marriage of Amalia with Mapperl.
Why - if he was so madly in love with Amalia - he married her "a few years later" (in fact two years)? He could marry her earlier...
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Pierce, the bio about Empress Elisabeth writted by Brigitte Hamann, "Reluctand Empress", referes that the empress knew so well that her brother Mapperl was in madly in love with Amalia, but the princess was engaged to Leopold, and Leopold was a suitable match to Gisela...So, the empress sent an invitation to hunting at Gödöllo Palace to prince Leopold. At Gödöllo, Leopold and Gisela became engaged, and a few years later, Elisabeth arranged the marriage of Amalia with Mapperl.
Why - if he was so madly in love with Amalia - he married her "a few years later" (in fact two years)? He could marry her earlier...
Their families were agaisnt Max/Amalia alliance if I remember correctly.
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Pierce, the bio about Empress Elisabeth writted by Brigitte Hamann, "Reluctand Empress", referes that the empress knew so well that her brother Mapperl was in madly in love with Amalia, but the princess was engaged to Leopold, and Leopold was a suitable match to Gisela...So, the empress sent an invitation to hunting at Gödöllo Palace to prince Leopold. At Gödöllo, Leopold and Gisela became engaged, and a few years later, Elisabeth arranged the marriage of Amalia with Mapperl.
Why - if he was so madly in love with Amalia - he married her "a few years later" (in fact two years)? He could marry her earlier...
Their families were agaisnt Max/Amalia alliance if I remember correctly.
Max was not good enough? :) But soon Empress Elisabeth managed it all :)
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Yes nobody crosses with the Empress of Austria, especially with her husband under her thumb in family matters.
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It always makes me a bit sad, that Gisela was engaged and married so early, because Elisabeth intervened in her brother's engagement with Amalia. She was heplful to her brother but forgot to her daughter's yought. She could wait even year or two...
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Well...Sisi bonded with her own family than with her children, especially her two eldest ones (who she believed to be Archduchess Soghie's wards). Rudolf had a strange love-hate relationship with his mother, but his sister had much less than that.
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Interesting to know about their 3 sons. Were they too poor to make dynastic marriages?
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No I think one of them was to be married, got a fall from a horse, got ill and marriage called off...
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It was said that one of the sons, Siegfried was a "fast" person and not a stable man mentally, that's why Archduchess Annunziata broke their engagement.
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Really, I think I saw engagement pictures...
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Really, I think I saw engagement pictures...
There are a couple of photographs showing them together. Anyway, their engagement broke up because of Siegfried's mental illness.
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Yes it was a sad business. Some even suggested one of his other two brothers may be gay ! But who knows for sure right ?
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Yes it was a sad business. Some even suggested one of his other two brothers may be gay ! But who knows for sure right ?
I guess that Siegfried wasn't seriously ill, because he was able to live in his own house in Schwabing, Munich.
Christoph was married to Miss Anna Theresia Sibig. They lived in Munich, too.
Luitpold, the youngest, was a rather peculiar chap. He had a passion for architecture. It took him decades to finish Schloss Ringberg, the project of his life. In old age, he had a chauffeur who drove him to his castle every morning. After having spent some time there, the chauffeur picked him up again and drove him back to Bad Kreuth where he used to sleep. He never married, but he had some close female friends in the area around Munich.
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Thanks for the info. :)
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Is this Amelie? In the description it was stated that this person is a "Princess Saxe Cobourg Cothurn, Wien Adèle CC Photo 1869"
If you know, it would be nice. Thanks!
(http://i38.tinypic.com/j0b9c1.jpg)
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Yes...her resemblence to her brother Ferdinand "Foxy" of Bulgaria is uncanny !
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That´s great, thank you. Pictures of her are so rare.
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Yes. I only have two small cdvs of her.
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Is this Amelie? In the description it was stated that this person is a "Princess Saxe Cobourg Cothurn, Wien Adèle CC Photo 1869"
If you know, it would be nice. Thanks!
(http://i38.tinypic.com/j0b9c1.jpg)
I think this woman is Clothilde von Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha, her sister.
She was married since 1864 to an austrian Archduke, so Wien/Vienna was where she lived or stayed.
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I do think, that the cdv shows AMELIE!
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I agree and conformed it ! I saw a version of this cdv in the Wittelsbach Archiev in Munich marked AMELIE.
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It's Amalie, Max Emanuel's beloved wife. The same picture was published in the latest biography about Clémentine d'Orléans.
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Glad we agreed on that. :D
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(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll205/EnaBatt/BAVARIA/MaxEmanuelandwifeAmalieofSaxe-Cobur.jpg)
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In which book can I found this picture??
Thanks
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Not seen in any book I have...maybe a new one came out.
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Courtesy of the ONB, Maximilian Emmanuel. He was a handsome fellow!
(http://i45.tinypic.com/2uf93k6.jpg)
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He was very handsome. The typical blond hair blue eyed prince. He looks like his brother Karl Theordor, who was also blond.
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i d say a much much handsome version of Karl Theodor
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Karl Theodor was good looking too. Max Emmanuel had softer features than both his brothers.
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I agree that he looks like Karl Theodor, in fact before reading who was him I thought that he was KT
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Yes. But he was better looking and younger too.
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Sure, I agree with you
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Indeed. Although his sons were not as striking as he was.
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Did they look more than their mother or why?
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Don't know...maybe the mother's genes from Coburg were the reason ?
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I think that it must be the explanation
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That is the only explaination I can think of.
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Amelie
(http://i41.tinypic.com/ff3jph.jpg)
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Thanks ! She looked very pretty in this one. ;)
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Christoph
(http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad313/Isana1988/01155235.jpg)
Articel about Siegfrieds accident
(http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad313/Isana1988/unfall.png)
But I don´t know why they mix up Siegfried and Christoph.
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(http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad313/Isana1988/01143523.jpg)
(http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad313/Isana1988/B10600514T10600519.jpg)
Max Emanuel, the handsome brother of Elisabeth
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He was a good looking blond man. :)
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(http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad313/Isana1988/25.jpg)
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Nice photo ! I think his hair got less blond as he grew up.
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There aren't too much photos about him, thanks for sharing this, is totally new for me XD By the way, I haven't noticed that his hair looked of a lighter color as younger... I thought that the only blond was Karl Theodor (well, his hair remained blond more time)
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He, Karl Theodor & Sophie Charlotte were the blond ones in the family.
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Well, remembering the painting of the Wittelsbach siblings done for Sissi he looks blond, but in photos he doesn't look as blond as Gackel or Sophie, their eyes look of being of a so light blue and Max Emanuel's look darker. Anyways, any other of the siblings were blond
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I read in Hamanns book that Sisis hair got darker, from ash blond to chestnut brown.
So Maxs hair got probably darker, too.
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But Sissi didn't have blue (or other light color) eyes, and perhaps that's the reason of her being represented blonde on her first paintings (engagement and first years of marriage) about Max there's no doubt
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Sisi, Nene, Marie, Mathilde & Ludwig all had dark hair like Duke Max.
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A stylish and elegant princess Amelie in Bayern born Saxe-Coburg-Gotha
(http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/1102/scansione0014t.jpg) (http://img43.imageshack.us/i/scansione0014t.jpg/)
1892 By Dittmar , Munich
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She was elegant but died too young... :(
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A stylish and elegant princess Amelie in Bayern born Saxe-Coburg-Gotha
What an amazing picture! I have never seen a photo of Amélie which was taken shortly before her death. She reminds me a lot of her mother Clémentine and her sister Clotilde who also gained weight in their later years.
Amélie wrote "1893" on the photo. So I guess it must have been taken before June, because on 12 June 1893 her husband Max Emanuel died. As a widow she wouldn't have worn such an elegant dress, would she?
Or was the photo really done in 1892 as Therry wrote and Amélie dedicated it to her aunt ("Für die theuere Tante") one year later?
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Yes. She was devestated by his death and soon followed him to the grave. :(
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Max Emanuel and Amalie
(http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/5116/maxemanuel189403.jpg)
(http://img847.imageshack.us/img847/1858/amaliecoburg189403.jpg)
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Thank You Veronica. Two wonderful photos and absolutely new
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You're welcome. I've noticed that the picture I posted of Amalie was taken in the same ocassion that the one you posted Therry.
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One more bigger photo of Amelie in 18th century dress(thanks to our fellow poster Beladona):
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k126/auersperg21/amelie.jpg)
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That was on sale a while ago on Ebay. I think it fetched more than USD 200...
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That's not unusual for a royalty cabinet card. And it was even done by the famous Adèle studio and is in good condition and a rare one. So the price is fair.
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Yes. They are getting more and more expensive.
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(http://i47.tinypic.com/t6yr8y.jpg)
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The photo taken after the wedding. There is another one of them with wedding clothes on. This is more like the "going away" clothes.
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Duchess Amalie
(http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/8933/amalie01.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/845/amalie01.jpg/)
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A slightly different version of the well-known wedding picture
(http://imageshack.us/a/img843/2705/amaliemaxemanuel.jpg)
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I think both are on sale on Ebay, the marriage photo is priced very expensive...
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Yup, both and a beautiful cabinet card of Max s nieces Marie Gabrielle, Sophie and Elizabeth
In fact the seller is user of this forum Eastern Window.
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Priced very expensively. Much more than the Protestant Royals.
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I think it has more to do with the rarity of their images rather than the religion. I've purchased some in the past and drooled over others out of my price range. :)
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Yes. I got a card out of his sister Nene once. Never saw one again lately.
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This image was on sale in a german auction house with the two rare and new ones of Kaiserin Sissi. And there was already expensive.
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I think I saw it on Ebay...
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Yes, They are in Eastern-Window ebay store, but they were first in Ursula Nusser´s auction house. Eastern Window bought em from there.
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Reselling often drives the price up. I bought a half dozen of Marie Leiningen, Victoria Melita and family from one ebay seller, who had more than one copy, and that same lot was resold by another seller on ebay for about 3x what i paid for them. I think it all depends on the timing, keywords, etc...Some sellers just strike better than others.
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Yes. I got 2 cards from them. They are fabulous and will appear in my next book. No better to do than share the images.
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The Bavarian or Leiningen ones?
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Reselling often drives the price up. I bought a half dozen of Marie Leiningen, Victoria Melita and family from one ebay seller, who had more than one copy, and that same lot was resold by another seller on ebay for about 3x what i paid for them. I think it all depends on the timing, keywords, etc...Some sellers just strike better than others.
I would love to spend about a week in your library with your books and pictures.
I'll bring the wine, cheese and even order a pizza! LOL! LOL!
TampaBay
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Sounds good TB! LOL I've actually taken it down a notch in recent years. My prior ebay addiction was pretty bad. :/ Still, I'm always adding photos in the hopes of someday.... :) I still get that thrill when you find a new photo--it gets harder and harder as the years go on. The internet has been a blessing in that respective. As you can see from this thread, elsewhere on the Forum and all over tumblr, etc....there are just some fabulously rare images out there. :)
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Sounds good to me too. I was talking about the Leiningens ones. I got some cdvs of Sisi and her sisters and brothers too.
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Sounds good to me too. I was talking about the Leiningens ones. I got some cdvs of Sisi and her sisters and brothers too.
What are cdvs?
TampaBay
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A cdv is a photo, the initials stand for "carte de visite".
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Indeed. Haven't seen one of Max or his siblings for a long time...
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Sounds good to me too. I was talking about the Leiningens ones. I got some cdvs of Sisi and her sisters and brothers too.
What are cdvs?
TampaBay
They are those smaller photo cards (smaller than postcards) you see from roughly the 1840s-1870s. After that, the larger cabinet cards became more popular. As Veronica said, it stands for carte de visite.
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Yes. Most of Sisi and her siblings came from cdvs. Only later ones are cabinet cards.