Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => French Royals => Topic started by: Sissi on February 22, 2006, 04:49:21 PM

Title: King Louis XVI
Post by: Sissi on February 22, 2006, 04:49:21 PM
history has not been kind to Louis XVI, as well as his courtiers and contemporaries. He has being painted as an incapable man, with little intellidence, no wit, and a poor husband and lover!!!!!
 But it was not the case, Louis Xvi was smart he was the first french sovereign to speak english, and most importnat he truly loved his people! 8)

 
Title: Re: King Louis XVI
Post by: ilyala on February 22, 2006, 04:54:36 PM
i don't think he was stupid. i think he was a simple man who didn't have the capacity needed to actually rule. i think he would have made a great constitutional monarch, for example... but as a monarch who's supposed to rule everything, he didn't do a very good job...
Title: Re: King Louis XVI
Post by: Sissi on February 22, 2006, 04:57:12 PM
By the way! Louis Ferdinand, Louis XVI father took special care of the education of his children, and requested a serie of educational sexual portraits! These portraits were later on in Napoleon`s bathroom and got lost during the fire of the Tuilerie!!!! ; :-[
Title: Re: King Louis XVI
Post by: polignac on February 22, 2006, 05:11:47 PM
i like the king Louis XV, but he was to benevolent and that resulted in his death...if Marie Antoinette were the rulling queen, it would be diffrent i think..
Title: Re: King Louis XVI
Post by: ilyala on February 23, 2006, 01:36:54 AM
i'm not sure she was fit to be a monarch either. not an absolute one... but maybe she would have been a better one, since she was a little more decisive... but still no henri iv :)
Title: Re: King Louis XVI
Post by: coquelicot on February 23, 2006, 02:35:31 AM
She was very decisive, indeed ! That could be interesting : Marie-Antoinette as real queen, just like her mother. With, as she said : "this blood running in her veins". She could do fine !
On the contrary, being so powerless may get on her nerves, she was so energetic... The only fields Louis gave her to experience her power were "menus plaisirs". It's not surprising that, in those conditions, she focused so much on pleasures !
Once, she became a true queen, with a true power... in her little empire of trianon. And in Saint-Cloud, too, she almost created. "De par la reine" !
Title: Re: King Louis XVI
Post by: Sissi on February 23, 2006, 08:46:12 AM
Louis XVI was no fool, he was smart and had the best intentions, he was a fervent Catholic, with good feelings, he had simple taste, and maybe that is what made him so "out" of his time, courtiers would have probably preferred a lusty man, a dashy dancer and speaker, and he was more of an inner person! He had been a needed child, he was not given too much affection or attention by his parents, who always preferred his oldest brother Louis Joseph and after his death Provence!

 MA was indeed very energetic but unfortunately her education was neglected, she was raised to be only a consort queen.

Title: Re: King Louis XVI
Post by: Sissi on February 23, 2006, 08:51:01 AM
(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/kedvesem/BerryetProvencea2ans.jpg)
Title: Re: King Louis XVI
Post by: Sissi on February 23, 2006, 08:51:48 AM
Berry and Provence!
Title: Re: King Louis XVI
Post by: Sissi on February 23, 2006, 09:00:18 AM
Louis used to be dressed with the same dresses as his mother until the age of 6, and he hated it, this was probably one of the reason he dressed his own children in an english way! ;D
This portrait was made by Nattier.

(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/kedvesem/louis16.jpg)


(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/kedvesem/louis162.jpg)

This portrait was sent to MA in Vienna.

(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/kedvesem/louis163.jpg)
Title: Re: King Louis XVI
Post by: Sissi on February 23, 2006, 09:37:58 AM
This portrait of Louis Charles was made by Louis XVI it is signed "Louis patre regeque" and was painted in 1791.

(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/kedvesem/DessinatribueaLouisXVI.jpg)
Title: Re: King Louis XVI
Post by: coquelicot on February 23, 2006, 02:08:45 PM
Are you sure it was painted by Louis XVI, dear Sissi ? It's very interesting ! I have never heard of Louis painting... "patre regeque" ablative can indeed represent agent complement (but without "ab" for active agent ?).

I agree with you Louis was a very cultivated man, even an intellectual, with a huge interest in sciences and inlightenments progresses. He was good at geography, too, and was able to drawn very precise plans. He made plans of Versailles gardens, that he constantly updated. He was very interested in navy, also, and had acquired in this matter engineer skills !
Title: Re: King Louis XVI
Post by: Sissi on February 24, 2006, 10:52:19 AM
Dear Coquelicot, I found this drawing in a book, I will try to find out the name of it since it was not mine, I did not know either that he had a liking for drawing but since it is signed I thought it was real. I ll try to find out more about it. ;D


 
Title: Re: King Louis XVI
Post by: Sissi on February 24, 2006, 12:56:57 PM
Quote
Are you sure it was painted by Louis XVI, dear Sissi ? It's very interesting ! I have never heard of Louis painting... "patre regeque" ablative can indeed represent agent complement (but without "ab" for active agent ?).

I agree with you Louis was a very cultivated man, even an intellectual, with a huge interest in sciences and inlightenments progresses. He was good at geography, too, and was able to drawn very precise plans. He made plans of Versailles gardens, that he constantly updated. He was very interested in navy, also, and had acquired in this matter engineer skills !




 My dear Coquelicot, he was indeed good at gerography he was the one who had the idea of sending an invastigation boat conducted by La Perouse Louis XVI himself with the help pf Fleureu (scientist) made the maps and plans La perouse was to follow. The boat sent were called "la Boussole et l'Astrolabe", La Perouse left France on August 1 1785, he travelled to the Paques and Sandwich islands, this expedition was creted to continue Cook experiments and research.

 I think this is one of the things that proves that he was not the dummy history and some historians have tried to make us believe.

 he must have been a very interesting man, he ordered a globe for his first son to enable him to study geography better. You can still see it at Vesailles.


Title: Re: King Louis XVI
Post by: Sissi on February 24, 2006, 01:01:48 PM
Louis XVi and the scientist La Perouse (Trip around the globe)

(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/kedvesem/laperouse.jpg)
Title: Re: King Louis XVI
Post by: Sissi on February 24, 2006, 01:52:01 PM
He also was the one who allowed Parmentier to introduce Potatoes in France!
And he had the idea of putting some soldiers to guard the fields in order to call on  people`s attention , and he gave the order to the soldiers to let the people "steal" the potatoes.... :o and that is how french people start eating potatoes!
Title: Re: King Louis XVI
Post by: coquelicot on February 25, 2006, 02:50:09 AM
Thanks, Sissi ! I enjoy so much your explanations ! I really like Louis too...
Geography and navy... two matters where he was the most skillul, I guess...
He also get back to his latin to teach it to his son in the temple. He read Tacitus and Livius. I feel very concerned, because I teach latin, and Tacitus is one of my favorites. The man was a genious writer !
Title: Re: King Louis XVI
Post by: bell_the_cat on February 26, 2006, 03:15:09 AM
Quote
Louis used to be dressed with the same dresses as his mother until the age of 6, and he hated it, this was probably one of the reason he dressed his own children in an english way! ;D
This portrait was made by Nattier.

(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/kedvesem/louis16.jpg)




This portrait is the Dauphin's eldest son, the Duc de Bourgogne (1751-1761).
Title: Re: King Louis XVI
Post by: Sissi on February 27, 2006, 08:42:45 AM
Quote

This portrait is the Dauphin's eldest son, the Duc de Bourgogne (1751-1761).



You are right Bell the cat it is the Duc de Bourgogne Louis beloved oldest brother.
Title: Re: King Louis XVI
Post by: Sissi on February 27, 2006, 11:31:19 AM
LA MONTGOLFIERE MARIE ANTOINETTE 1783!

(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/kedvesem/Montgolfier_Balloon.jpg)


On September 19, 1783, in Versailles, a Montgolfiere hot air balloon carrying a sheep, a rooster, and a duck flew for eight minutes in front of Louis XVI, Marie Antoinette, and the French court
Title: Re: King Louis XVI
Post by: coquelicot on February 27, 2006, 11:44:05 AM
Thanks or this wonderful pic, Sissi ! This scene was illustrated in the movie "Jefferson in Paris". We see Louis XVI, Marie-Antoinette, Charles, Mousseline and courtiers watching the balloon from a terrase. I remember Marie-Antoinette (in the movie !) wore a sot pink stripped dress... I think... and a huge hat, as usual !  ;)
Title: Re: King Louis XVI
Post by: Sissi on February 27, 2006, 12:22:08 PM
Really? I did not know that, I have not see the movie, but I am definetely going to rent it!
   I like curiosities and i thought it was nice to prove that he was not the shallow, idiot man many people still think he was!!!
 I think that he would have probably been the best king, if he was born at some other time and maybe if he would have not being surrounded by so many ambitious people such as Provence.
Title: Re: King Louis XVI
Post by: Sissi on February 27, 2006, 12:42:39 PM
Some other unknown things about Louis:

 He was the first one to establisehd fire station in paris
 He ordered the establishment of well equipped nursuries in prisons.

  He fund raised  the first blind school of Valentin Hauy

  He opened the first children hospital called today Hopital des enfants malades!

   He financed the brothers Montgolfier experiments (the first air ballon).

  He first implemented the idea of giving retired people money for their service.


 He financed L Hotel Dieu in order that each patient should have their own bed.

  He first had the idea of giving people an indemnisation in case that they were find innocent of a crime.

 he ordered military hospital to treat "the enemie`s wounded like if they were "le spropes sujets du roi" this was 90 years before the first Geneva Convention.


Title: Re: King Louis XVI
Post by: Sissi on February 27, 2006, 01:28:38 PM
(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/kedvesem/familleroyaleparBrun.jpg)

La Famille Royale par Brun!
Title: Re: King Louis XVI
Post by: Remio on February 27, 2006, 01:57:58 PM
Good morning!!!! :)
from Left to the rigth:
Madame Adélaïde; Madame Victoire; Madame Sophie;

Le duc de Berry;duc d'Angoulême; Mlle d'Artois (count d'artois's children).

comtesse de Provence, comte de Provence (Louis XVI's brother).

Marie-Thérèse Charlotte (Louis XVI and Marie-antoinette's daughter).

Louis XVI; Louis-Joseph, the Dauphin; Marie-Antoinette

comtesse d'Artois; comte d'Artois (Louis XVI's brother).

Madame Elisabeth (Louis XVI's sister). ;)
Title: Re: King Louis XVI
Post by: Sissi on February 27, 2006, 02:22:51 PM
Thank you  ;D
Title: Re: King Louis XVI
Post by: Sissi on February 28, 2006, 02:37:13 PM
Some more portraits of Louis XVI

(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/kedvesem/LouisXVI5.jpg)

(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/kedvesem/louisXVIacheval.jpg)

(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/kedvesem/LOuisXVIetsonpeuple.jpg)
Title: Re: King Louis XVI
Post by: Sissi on March 02, 2006, 01:22:37 PM
(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/kedvesem/Les_Chevaliers_du_Saint-Esprit_prom.jpg)


 This portrait was made after the coronation at Reims it shows Louis Philippe d Orleans swearing allegiance as Chevalier du Saint esprit to Louis XVI!!!!!!

   Life is ironic, he sweared allegiance and sent him to the scaffold!!!!!!!
Title: Re: King Louis XVI
Post by: Sissi on March 20, 2006, 02:38:10 PM
The flight to Varennes was a disaster for many reason!
  The berline was not fast enough, it was green and yellow, they stopped to many times, it was more a promenade than a flight!

  It was bound to fail, Louis XVI was the only man, I mean why travel with Tourzel I know that she was "the baronne de Korff" but it would have been more useful to travel with a man like Fersen, a man of decision! any other man with guts!!!!
Title: Re: King Louis XVI
Post by: Sissi on March 20, 2006, 02:41:29 PM
(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/kedvesem/plandevarennes.jpg)

Title: Re: King Louis XVI
Post by: Sissi on March 20, 2006, 02:41:55 PM
(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/kedvesem/varennes.jpg)
Title: Re: King Louis XVI
Post by: Sissi on March 20, 2006, 02:43:31 PM
you can see the tower named Louis XVI!!!!
Title: Re: King Louis XVI
Post by: Sissi on March 20, 2006, 02:45:37 PM
(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/kedvesem/necesairedevoyageMA.jpg)


Marie Antoinette travel necessaire!
Title: Re: King Louis XVI
Post by: bell_the_cat on March 20, 2006, 02:54:13 PM
Actually I'm quite impressed with their speed. Especially  since they got off to a bad start (Marie Antoinette late etc.). They made it to Varennes in within one day. At least 70 horses were involved in the operation!

Last year I travelled the same route on the A4 motorway in a bus - It took almost as long, as we got stuck on the périphérique.

Though the coach was admittedly an odd colour, it was made to the highest specification which was why it could go so fast.  Coach times had improved dramatically during Louis' reign - in the 1770s it would have taken at least twice as long to reach Varennes.
Title: Re: King Louis XVI
Post by: Sissi on March 20, 2006, 03:08:33 PM
Interesting!!!!! the berline served as Diligence for a couple of years until it caught fire!
Title: Re: King Louis XVI
Post by: bell_the_cat on March 21, 2006, 01:04:16 AM
Quote
Interesting!!!!! the berline served as Diligence for a couple of years until it caught fire!


The Comte and Comtesse de Provence both escaped on that same day, though separately. They left Paris a few hours after Louis and Marie Antoinette. They chose a shorter route to the border, heading for Brussels.

I don't know why Louis and MA chose the route they did. It may be that they were hoping to be greeted by supporters at some stage, but in this they were sadly mistaken.
Title: Re: King Louis XVI
Post by: ilyala on March 21, 2006, 02:08:30 AM
i remember when i was little reading the countess of charny, by alexandre dumas. it said there that at some point the royal family could have chosen a more straight road, meaning they couldn't have been reached by anyone following, since they were going so fast. but they took a turn so the one following was able to shorten his road by taking a shortcut... any truth to this or is it just one of dumas' dramatical add-ons?
Title: Re: King Louis XVI
Post by: Sissi on March 21, 2006, 08:15:06 AM
Definetely The road they took was not the most fast or direct, besides they could have ride in two diferent carriage, I know they did not want to seperate but still it was the best thing to do! besides the Baronne de Korff said that she was going to Franckfort however the road they took was not leading to Franckfort, that was suspicious!

  It was a fiasco, I read that also Louis XVI stretch his legs a couple of times even when as far as to talk with peasants, I think they took it as a promenade!!!!

   
Title: Re: King Louis XVI
Post by: ilyala on March 22, 2006, 02:39:15 AM
what were they thinking? why didn't they take the shorter way?  ???
Title: Re: King Louis XVI
Post by: bell_the_cat on March 22, 2006, 05:42:22 AM
Quote
what were they thinking? why didn't they take the shorter way?  ???



There is a good map of the route on this site:

http://www.museelouisxvii.com/depVar.htm

It says it was the King's decision not to take the shorter route - he was reluctant to travel through Rheims. as he was afraid that the people there would remember his face from the coronation (16 years previously).
Title: Re: King Louis XVI
Post by: Sissi on March 22, 2006, 08:14:25 AM
Thanks bell the cat really good resume on their escape!
  I really don`t know what they were thinking, I did not know that Madame Elisabeth was in the same coach as the family! It is amazing!!!! they were 6 in the berline! they should have travel in seperate small cariages! maids!!!!! what was the point of having maids!!!! in the middle of an escape!! they should have take Fersen or another man of action!  >:(

  Reading the link you post, it was bound to fail, there was a superficial organization, they wer preocupy with nonsense and disregarded the REAL important aspect if the flight!
   
Title: Re: King Louis XVI
Post by: Ortino on March 22, 2006, 05:19:18 PM
Quote
Thanks bell the cat really good resume on their escape!
   I really don`t know what they were thinking, I did not know that Madame Elisabeth was in the same coach as the family! It is amazing!!!! they were 6 in the berline! they should have travel in seperate small cariages! maids!!!!! what was the point of having maids!!!! in the middle of an escape!! they should have take Fersen or another man of action!  >:(

   Reading the link you post, it was bound to fail, there was a superficial organization, they wer preocupy with nonsense and disregarded the REAL important aspect if the flight!
    


Fersen was with the royal family on the first stage of the journey out of Paris, but he should have probably been allowed to accompany them further. Fraser states that the most probable reason that Louis did not allow him to go further was that he was a foreigner, and even though he was a French military commander, the king didn't want any "foreign taint" touching his and his family's escape to Montmedy.
Title: Re: King Louis XVI
Post by: coquelicot on March 23, 2006, 12:55:44 AM
Romantic people have rather think that the king refused his wife's lover !  ::) But, let's take it seriously !  ;D I agree with you Fraser must be right. It's a logical reason, for Louis left a note saying he wasn't about to leave France. He was very upset about that...
Title: Re: King Louis XVI
Post by: ilyala on March 23, 2006, 03:26:20 AM
why didn't they go to verdun? why varennes?
Title: Re: King Louis XVI
Post by: coquelicot on March 23, 2006, 07:08:50 AM
Actually, they were going to Montmédy, a place-forte (a military place) near austrian border. Varennes was just on their way, and they were stopped there under these awful circumstances we know...
Title: Re: King Louis XVI
Post by: Sissi on March 23, 2006, 08:15:16 AM
Quote
Actually, they were going to Montmédy, a place-forte (a military place) near austrian border. Varennes was just on their way, and they were stopped there under these awful circumstances we know...


  It is true!
Too bad they did not take Fersen with them! He waws a man of action I bet he would have figured out something! I mean I do not see the reason why they were taking two maids in a primordial flight, I guess they did not realize the fulll importance of it on their lives and throne!!! I read that MA send a necessaire to her sister Marie Christine, she sent a full trousseau for her and Mouseline!!!! some people were already suspicious! I mean if you are in a flight who cares about looks comodities, they should have went seperately one coach behind the other maybe, light small coaches, with some money and that`s it!!!!
  I think that if they had escaped the revolution would not have last so much.
Title: Re: King Louis XVI
Post by: Imperial.Opal on March 29, 2006, 02:38:36 PM
The movie La Nuit De Varennes made in 1983, is a french revolution period piece set in June 1791 is about a group of passengers in a stagecoach, who are two hours behind the royal family as they flee Paris,in the coach are Thomas Paine, Retif de la Bretonne the historian, a aging Casanova, a young Jacobin,  a lady in waiting, a middle class woman, a industrialist, a devoted  royalist who has the Kings royal robes, ect.  During the coach journey the passengers get to know each other and discuss the revolution in general with a particular point of view. It is well done with very authentic detail in costumes and accoutrements.It stars Jean- Louis Barrault, Marcello Mastroianni. Harvey Keitel, Hanna Schy,only available on VHS video, hope you can track down a copy from your video shop
Regard, Opal  :)
Title: Re: King Louis XVI
Post by: coquelicot on April 01, 2006, 01:52:48 AM
Oh, yes ! I saw this movie, and love it ! Hannah Shygulla just makes me think o Marie-Antoinette, with her large dark hat...  8-) I'll try to order it on the net, hope it's available in DVD  :-*
Title: Re: King Louis XVI
Post by: bell_the_cat on April 01, 2006, 11:24:04 AM
Quote
The movie La Nuit De Varennes made in 1983, is a french revolution period piece set in June 1791 is about a group of passengers in a stagecoach, who are two hours behind the royal family as they flee Paris,in the coach are Thomas Paine, Retif de la Bretonne the historian, a aging Casanova, a young Jacobin,  a lady in waiting, a middle class woman, a industrialist, a devoted  royalist who has the Kings royal robes, ect.  During the coach journey the passengers get to know each other and discuss the revolution in general with a particular point of view. It is well done with very authentic detail in costumes and accoutrements.It stars Jean- Louis Barrault, Marcello Mastroianni. Harvey Keitel, Hanna Schy,only available on VHS video, hope you can track down a copy from your video shop
Regard, Opal  :)

Sounds great!
Title: Re: King Louis XVI
Post by: Sissi on June 02, 2006, 08:31:49 AM
Louis XVI journal:


(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/kedvesem/journaldelouisXVI2.jpg)

(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/kedvesem/journaldelouisXVI1.jpg)
Title: Re: King Louis XVI
Post by: Sissi on June 02, 2006, 08:32:55 AM
you can see that in the first page there is a lot`s of "Rien" "Nothing"
Title: Re: King Louis XVI
Post by: bell_the_cat on June 02, 2006, 09:50:00 AM
I've read that he only noted in his diary what he had achieved while hunting - so "Rien" just meant he hadn't been hunting. I can't read the writing for the days when he did have something to report - does it relate to hunting, Sissi?

The man bowing before Louis at the coronation - could it be the elder Duc d'Orléans (b. 1725) rather than Orléans "Égalité" (b. 1747)?
Title: Re: King Louis XVI
Post by: Sissi on June 05, 2006, 09:00:37 AM
Quote
I've read that he only noted in his diary what he had achieved while hunting - so "Rien" just meant he hadn't been hunting. I can't read the writing for the days when he did have something to report - does it relate to hunting, Sissi?

The man bowing before Louis at the coronation - could it be the elder Duc d'Orléans (b. 1725) rather than Orléans "Égalité" (b. 1747)?
 


Dear Bell:

   You are correct Rien meant no hunting that day, I can`t read the other wrtings I will try to find a bigger version  ::)