Alexander Palace Forum
Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => The Wittlesbachs => Topic started by: Emilia on March 31, 2006, 07:27:37 AM
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Hey!
I am very interested in King Otto I. of Bavaria (1847-1916), the younger brother of Ludwig II., so I started a thread about him. :)
Some questions: Why did he become insane? Before this, were the marriage plans for Otto and if yes, who were the possible brides? What was his character like?
And, as always, pictures are very welcome! ;D
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I am very interested in King Otto II. of Bavaria (1847-1916
So am I ! I wish more were known about him but he is always only briefly mentioned in bios about his brother. Otto progressively became stark mad & had to spend 1/2 of his life interned. I do not know exactly how this happened (guess he must have carried it in his genes). Unlike his brother, he took part to the 1870 Franco-prussian war & seems to have been very much shocked by what he witnessed there. He probably suffered a nervous breakdown afterwards & this may have been a starting point - just my 2 cents though. After Ludwig's death, Otto became King, only in name of course.
The Bavarian royal family :
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/agnessa/BKF3.jpg)(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/agnessa/MaxMariefamily.jpg)
Queen Marie with her 2 sons :
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/agnessa/BKF2.jpg)
Otto (right) with mother & brother Ludwig :
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/agnessa/BKF1.jpg)
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Otto & brother Ludwig :
(http://i'.photobucket.com/albums/y143/agnessa/OttoLudw4.jpg) (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/agnessa/ludwotto.jpg) (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/agnessa/OttoLudw2.jpg)
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As a child :
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/agnessa/Otto1.jpg)
Dressed up (1864) :
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/agnessa/Otto2.jpg)
As a young man, looking devastatingly handsome IMO ! (my favourite pic of him) :
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/agnessa/Otto3.jpg)
In later life with 2 attendants :
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/agnessa/otto4.jpg)
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Otto (middle) with brother Ludwig (right) & first cousin Wilhelm of Hesse and by Rhine (left) :
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/agnessa/HesseBavariacousins1.jpg)
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/agnessa/HesseBavariacousins2.jpg)
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Hello!
I`m also very interest in the person of Otto!
I have always the impression, that the german or better bavarian historians forget Otto!
Some weeks ago, there was on bavarian TV, which has mostly a very good TV Programm, a TV Serial with the titel " Our Bavarian Kings" ! The reason was the 200th anniversary that Bavaria became Kingdom! I hoped to see also a report about King Otto, but .....nothing!
About all Kings, they spoke, but between Ludwig II and Ludwig III......only some words about the sick King!
I was so angry about this fact, that I wrote to the TV Channel, why they didn`t had any report about Otto, but I didn`t get any answer!
Here a photo from young Otto
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f265/LadyMountbatten/29cfd4ab.jpg
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Thank you soo much for these most wonderful pictures, Agneschen! :-* Please keep them coming!
Some weeks ago, there was on bavarian TV, which has mostly a very good TV Programm, a TV Serial with the titel " Our Bavarian Kings" ! The reason was the 200th anniversary that Bavaria became Kingdom! I hoped to see also a report about King Otto, but .....nothing!
About all Kings, they spoke, but between Ludwig II and Ludwig III......only some words about the sick King!
I was so angry about this fact, that I wrote to the TV Channel, why they didn`t had any report about Otto, but I didn`t get any answer!
I also watched these mini-series on the Bavarian kings and I was very dissapointed that Otto (he was king for 30 years!) was hardly mentioned.... :'(
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Does anyone know what was the status of King Otto after his replacement by his cousin King Ludwig III?
Was he still refered as HM King Otto of Bavaria?
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While reading, I noticed: King Otto II. of Bavaria!
I believe, he was King Otto I. of Bavaria!
His status was King of Bavaria! On old official money, there was his portraits, never the silhuette of
Prinzregent Luitpold!
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Before his illness, Prince Otto had cheerful character and was enthusiastic about ballet and theather. His two other passions were hunting and traveling. I don't know about possible brides, but his cousin, Princess Therese of Bavaria (1850-1925) was very attached to Otto.Therese visited him several times in Fürstenried Castle, where Otto lived from 1883 till his death in 1916. Princess Therese never married.
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While reading, I noticed: King Otto II. of Bavaria!
I believe, he was King Otto I. of Bavaria!
Ops! You are right - I am going to change the title!
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Otto, Prince of Bavaria
(http://mysite.verizon.net/bradstreets/a21.jpg)
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On link posted below, is a short account on King Otto.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_of_Bavaria
Daniela
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(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f359/palethingirl/otto.jpg)
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f359/palethingirl/otto1bavaria-2.jpg)
Prince Otto Wilhelm Luitpold Adalbert Waldemar of Bavaria, 1848-1916
He was the second son of King Maximilian and Queen Marie.
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Otto I of Bavaria, (Otto Wilhelm Luitpold Adalbert Waldemar Wittelsbach) (27 April 1848 – 11 October 1916) was King of Bavaria from 1886 to 1913. He was the son of Maximilian II and his wife, Marie of Prussia, and younger brother of Ludwig II. Otto of Bavaria is not to be confused with Otto of Greece, who was his uncle.
When the Prussian king Wilhelm was proclaimed German Emperor on January 18, 1871 in Versailles Palace Prince Otto represented his brother who refused to participate. Otto then criticized the celebration as blustering and crushing in a letter to Ludwig.
Otto became King of Bavaria upon his older brother's death in 1886. However, Otto never truly ruled as King and was by some accounts not even aware that he had become King. Otto suffered from severe mental illness and had been declared insane in 1875. He was kept confined in Fürstenried Palace under medical supervision until his death. Otto's uncle, Prince Luitpold of Bavaria, served as Prince Regent for Otto until Luitpold's death. Luitpold's son Ludwig then became the next Prince Regent.
The constitution of Bavaria was amended on 4 November 1913, to include a clause specifying that if a regency for reasons of incapacity lasted for ten years with no expectation that the King would ever be able to reign, the Regent could proclaim the end of the regency and assume the crown himself.
The following day, Otto was deposed by his cousin, Prince Regent Ludwig, who then assumed the title Ludwig III. The parliament assented on 6 November, and Ludwig III took the constitutional oath on 8 November. Otto was permitted to retain his title and honours, which he did until his death in 1916.
Otto's body was interred in the crypt of the Michaelskirche in Munich.
This information is from the site at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_of_Bavaria
Byron.
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If you want more information about Otto I of Bavaria then he is mentioned in the book’s written about his brother Ludwig II of Bavaria.
Some of the best book’s is written by Desmond-Chapman-Huston who quote’s from the secret diaries’ and personal letters from the archives of the Wittelsbachs family.
Also the book’s written by Christopher McIntosh and Greg King are rather informative.
Byron.
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The child Otto.
(http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p166/larsbyron/Otto1.jpg)
The young Otto.
(http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p166/larsbyron/Otto3.jpg)
Otto and his brother.
(http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p166/larsbyron/ludwotto.jpg)
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For those whom may be interested, there is in the book by Katerina Von Burg “Windsor publications" bearing the title of “The man and the mystery” a whole chapter dedicated to King Otto I.
The chapter being chapter 10 in witch there are 20 tight printed pages of very sympathy full information.
Byron.
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... and there is a book about Otto I ( but it is in German !!!)
It is called " Schattenkönig" and the Author is Alfons Schweiggert.
Its very interesting and informative, really worth to read...
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Sounds very good. Would like to be better in reading German. ;)
Byron.
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The municipality of Ottobrunn (Munich) has an interesting Otto,King of Greece museum within the townhall,as well as a commemorative pillar close to the spot where HM King Max said farewell to his son upon his leave for Greece in 1832.
The museum has over 200 (personal) objects on display that once belonged to Otto.
http://www.ottobrunn.de/
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The municipality of Ottobrunn (Munich) has an interesting Otto,King of Greece museum within the townhall,as well as a commemorative pillar close to the spot where HM King Max said farewell to his son upon his leave for Greece in 1832.
Ludwig`s brother Otto never was King of Greece: Otto of Greece was a son of King Ludwig I. and an uncle of King Otto I. of Bavaria. :)
The castle Fürstenried in Munich, where Otto lived from 1880 - 1916:
(http://home.arcor.de/koenig-otto/ortfu2.png)
Prince Otto (17 years old):
(http://home.arcor.de/koenig-otto/kindheit24.jpg)
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Sad end for Otto. :'(
(http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p166/larsbyron/OttoIBeieren.jpg)
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(http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p166/larsbyron/Otto3.jpg)
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Now that's a photo I have never seen. He certainly looked very handsome. I have read that the drugs administered to Otto were unkind. Some say he was not insane at all but was kept drugged. Who knows what the truth is about him. Certainly it was convenient to have him out of the way for his Uncle Luitpold.
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He had very nice features, though his brother got all the attention. ;)
Most drugs in those days were rather crude. :'(
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Furstenried looks charming. I read somewhere that Otto may in fact have been drugged. Certainly Ludwig was effected by what he took to alleviate his appalling toothache.
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He where, unfortunately very Heavily. The drug use then was very crude. :'(
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Well it must be remembered that Denistry was very primitive in those days. Elizabeth I is supposed to have had a foul temper due to a mouthful of decaying teeth and constant toothache. Can you imagine this? Her teeth were apparently quite black from using charcoal to clean them.
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Can you imagine this? Having all your teeth hurt at the same time, when inhailing or drinking, must have been just horrible. :'(
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Otto in costume
(http://i47.tinypic.com/24lu100.jpg)
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This is from a letter written by King Ludwig II of Bavaria to his old governess, Frau von Leonrod from Hohenschwangau, in January 1871.
"It is really painful to see Otto in such a suffering state which seems to become worse and worse daily. In some respects he is more excitable and nervous then Aunt Alexandra (http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=11460.0) – and that is saying a great deal. He often does not go to bed ofr forty-eight hours; he did not take off his boots for eight week, behaves like a madmen, makes terrible faces, barks like a dog, and at times says the most indecorous things; and then again he is quite normal for a while."
Important to note that Otto's uncle was not the first to commit him, but his brother who did truly love him and only did so with great reluctance.
Just before Ludwig II's doomed engagement to Duchess Sophie in Bavaria in 1867, Ludwig II wrote:
"I really have no time to marry, Otto can take care of that."
So Ludwig II and the Bavarian court fully expected Otto to marry and have issue.
Maybe somebody here has the Ludwig II almost made a remark in jest about how many cousins get married in royal family, particularly his own. I like infer that Ludwig II was referring to strong possibly that Otto was going to marry on of their cousins. Otto's first cousin, Princess Anna of Modena, was only 7 months younger then Otto and would have been a prime candidate since her mother was very involved in the Bavarian royal family and she arranged the marriage of her husband's niece, Princess Maria Theresia of Modena, to Ludwig III. But Princess Anna of Modena died in infancy.
Another first cousin of Otto, Princess Therese of Bavaria (http://Princess Therese of Bavaria), was deeply in love with Otto and often visited and wrote to him even after he went totally insane. Considering Princess Therese of Bavaria was extremely smart by any standard, always find it neat that she fell in love with Otto and shows that there must have been something to him beyond "the more insane brother of the Mad King." She lamented Otto's poor treatment by their family.
(http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/9714/theresebavaria18500sq.jpg)
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Many thanks for your post.
Isn´t it a great "lovestory"? But I don´t think that they had married, if Otto hadn´t been mad.
Because she wanted to be a scientist. And as a married woman (of course in this time), you are not allowed to travel into foreign land with jungle.
She was in the eyes of her brothers a burden (what did they know, besides shoot animals?). But her bust is now in the Rumeshalle in Bavaria. :)
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I think the pressure of being of wife of the heir to the throne and then mother of the next King of Bavaria wouldn't have suited Princess Therese at all. Still, her deep love for King Otto does show something about him beyond the usual biographical details one generally reads about him.
I think I read about how Otto had light bloodish hair and a fair complexion. He supposedly resembled his father, King Maximilian II, and the House of Wittlesbach. While Ludwig II had a much darker complexion and resembled his mother, Princess Marie of Prussia, and the House of Hohenzollern. This bothered Ludwig II as he, like many Bavarians of the time, didn't care for Prussia. Hopefully others it, but I notice a family resemblance between Ludwig II and Grand Duke Ludwig IV of Hesse and by Rhine, father of Empress Alexandra Feodorovna, since Otto and Ludwig II's mother was the younger sister of the Grand Duke's mother.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/11/Maximilian_II_of_Bavaria_with_his_family.jpg/800px-Maximilian_II_of_Bavaria_with_his_family.jpg)
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They say Otto was more attractive than Ludwig, not just his look, he was fun-loving and not so withdrawn like Ludwig.
(http://i32.tinypic.com/efqhso.jpg)
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Pictures taken in Munich in 1863 of Ludwig II and Otto with their first cousin, Prince Wilhelm of Hesse (uncle of Empress Alexandra Feodrovna). The cousins were very close as their mothers often meet up often in Bavaria with their children.
(http://i25.tinypic.com/2888kg5.jpg)(http://images.zeno.org/Fotografien/I/500-317/PHO00130.jpg)
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One of the best pictures yet I've seen of King Otto.
They say Otto was more attractive than Ludwig, not just his look, he was fun-loving and not so withdrawn like Ludwig.
(http://i32.tinypic.com/efqhso.jpg)
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBM9yxFT5Cc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBM9yxFT5Cc)
Lots of pictures here.
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Very good website
http://www.koenig-otto.de.vu/
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(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3287/2720304074_629ca41c86_o.jpg)
Postcard of King Otto I above The Residenz, a huge palace complex located in central Munich. It was formerly the official residence of the kings of Bavaria.
The building was severely damaged by bombing during World War II. Much of the structure which one sees today is the result of post-war rebuilding. Many of the paintings, furniture, and interior fittings, however, had all been removed from the palace before the bombing, and have now been restored to their original locations. It's currently a museum.
It's also the birthplace of King Otto I.
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/69/160633451_617049f170_z.jpg)
South Facade
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As a child with his elder brother Crown Prince Ludwig (seating)
http://news.webshots.com/photo/2095014420100532270wajOns (http://news.webshots.com/photo/2095014420100532270wajOnsv)
As King of Bavaria (notice The Residenz in the background)
http://news.webshots.com/photo/2231126380100532270ZFqLTf (http://news.webshots.com/photo/2231126380100532270ZFqLTf)
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(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2109/2145585091_17f4b662b9_o.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2346/2146379168_d48976e8e4_o.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2491/3915188756_7058c52a7a_o.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4114/4891426932_49f1e948a3_b.jpg)
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What Unit did Prince Otto serve in during the Franco-Prussian war?
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I have seen a painting of him taking Paris with von Moltke and the Kaiser--which unit were they commanding?
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Just wondering if anybody here has ever read about potential brides for Otto before he went insane in the late 1860's/early 1870's?
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There is a book on his cousine Therese whichs states that she remained unmarried because she wanted to marry Otto.
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You mean the daughter of Regent Luitpold? Therese the zoologist and botanics Princess ? Thanks for the information I did not know
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Photographs of a young Princess Therese of Bavaria (http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=7221.0)
(http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo319/DonaIsabella/de5ab45a74.jpg)
(http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad313/Isana1988/101824_001.jpg)