Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => The Windsors => Topic started by: Sarai on September 05, 2004, 04:31:40 PM

Title: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Sarai on September 05, 2004, 04:31:40 PM
I recently purchased Charlotte Zeepvat's Queen Victoria's Family: A Century of Photographs and I must say how pleased I was with this book. It is a collection of hundreds of photographs of Queen Victoria's descendants from 1840 to 1940. I purchased it because I thought it would be interesting to see all of the Queen's children and their individual families, but I was surprised at how many rare photographs there were of the Hesse children that I had seen nowhere else. I can certainly highly recommend this book for both those who are interested in royalty in general (as you can see the connections between QV's descendants and put faces to the names) and also to those interested in Alexandra's family. Here is a list of 15 pictures showing Alix's family that I thought would be of particular interest to people on this board (unfortunately, I don't have a scanner for those who may be interested in seeing any of these pictures):

1- Pg. 34: Group shot at Osborne at the time of Princess Beatrice's wedding in July 1885, showing all the Hesse children, including a 13 year old Alix.

2- Pg. 41: Queen Victoria with the Wales princes plus Victoria (age 8) and Ella (age 7) of Hesse in 1871.

3- Pg. 47: Large family group shot taken in Darmstadt in 1882, showing the Hesses (including a 10 year old Alix with the Princess of Wales' arm around her), the Wales, and the Schleswig-Holstein's.

4- Pg. 56: Queen Victoria at Balmoral with Princess Elisabeth of Hesse (Ernie's daughter, age 4) and others in 1899.

5- Pg. 60: Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaevna in a stroller with her nurse in 1897 (I had never seen this picture of little Olga before).

6- Pg. 69: Princess Elisabeth of Hesse at 1 year old in 1896.

7- Pg. 71: The Hesse and Wales children in 1875, including a 3 year old Alix.

8- Pg. 74: Victoria (age 5) and Ella (age 4) of Hesse in 1868, dressed as Hessian peasants.

9- Pg. 94: Victoria (age 12), Ella (age 11), and Irene (age 9) of Hesse in 1875.

10- Pg. 127: Clear picture of Frittie, Alix's little brother who died of hemophilia, shown a few weeks before his death in 1873 (one of the few rare pictures of the child).

11- Pg. 134: Princess Elisabeth of Hesse (age 6) in 1901.

12- Pg. 149: Ernie's family in 1916, with part of the Neues Palais in the background (interesting because of the palace shot).

13- Pg. 181: Victoria (age 68) and Ernie (age 63) at the wedding of Ernie's son Georg Donatus in 1931.

14- Pg. 182: Ernie (age 64) holding his first grandchild in 1932.

15- Pg. 202: Victoria (age 69) of Hesse in 1932 and Irene of Hesse in the 1930's.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Jane on September 07, 2004, 03:38:59 PM
Queen Victoria's Family is a wonderful book!  Thank you, Sarai, for mentioning it.  I bought this book nearly a year ago, and have looked through it countless times since then.  It is one of my favorites.

Jane
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Sarai on September 07, 2004, 03:41:02 PM
You're welcome, ladies. I'm glad you have enjoyed it as much as I have!
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Merrique on September 08, 2004, 07:01:45 PM
I got this book from the library a couple of weeks ago and I just love it.I love looking at the old photographs and seeing all of Queen Victoria's descendants. ::)

I recommend it as well.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: grandduchessella on September 08, 2004, 11:27:10 PM
This is one of the best books ever! I was actually surprised at how many of the photos I have unlike those in Camera and the Tsars.  :(  I wish there would be more photo books like this one. I actually sold a few reprints to Charlotte Zeepvatt. I know I've mentioned this but I'm still in shock--I LOVE her stuff. I wouldn't probably even know about many Romanovs outside of NAOTMAA if not for Romanov Autumn. I hope she has another book out soon. BTW, it's amazing how much this book goes for on ebay sometimes when it's still available through amazon etc...
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Sarai on September 09, 2004, 07:29:22 AM
Quote
BTW, it's amazing how much this book goes for on ebay sometimes when it's still available through amazon etc...


I got my copy of Queen Victoria's Family as a used copy on Amazon for only $3.47! It is in perfect condition except it is missing the dust jacket.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: jfkhaos on December 08, 2004, 12:38:14 PM
Just got my copy from interoffice loan @ the library and all of the recommendations above are true!  Although there are pictures that I am sure all of us have seen, there are several that are new to me!
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Anya on December 08, 2004, 01:08:37 PM
I got my copy used from Amazon too, only $6,49. But it's perfect! It's impossible to say that another person read it before me!
This book is wonderful. I love the final chapter, with pictures of present monarchs as babies.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Eurohistory on December 09, 2004, 09:39:54 AM
Quote
This is one of the best books ever! I was actually surprised at how many of the photos I have unlike those in Camera and the Tsars.  :(  I wish there would be more photo books like this one. I actually sold a few reprints to Charlotte Zeepvatt. I know I've mentioned this but I'm still in shock--I LOVE her stuff. I wouldn't probably even know about many Romanovs outside of NAOTMAA if not for Romanov Autumn. I hope she has another book out soon. BTW, it's amazing how much this book goes for on ebay sometimes when it's still available through amazon etc...


In fact there are more like it...Rosvall Royal Books has published  at least eight photo books pn royalty like Charlotte's.  In fact, RRB began publishing these years before Charlotte even wrote hers.  I know, since one of these books is the one I co-authored with the King of Romania's son-in-law to honor KIng Michael.

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Val289 on December 09, 2004, 04:40:12 PM
I also have this book.  It was such a treat just to sit down and look through the fabulous photographs - I would certainly recommend it! :)
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Eurohistory on December 09, 2004, 09:14:25 PM
This is a wonderful book as well...and I personallye enjoyed it more than The camera and the Tsar.

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Alicky1872 on December 10, 2004, 11:12:03 AM
Yes--and now I HOPE her next project will be a picture book on Christian IX's family!
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Eurohistory on December 11, 2004, 04:50:46 PM
Sadly it is not...it will cover nannies

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Martyn on December 20, 2004, 05:59:50 PM
Quote

In fact there are more like it...Rosvall Royal Books has published  at least eight photo books pn royalty like Charlotte's.  In fcat, RRB began publishing these years before Charlotte even wrote hers.  I know, since one of these books is the one I co-authored with the King of Romania's son-in-law to honor KIng Michael.

Arturo Beéche


Just to echo Art's point, it is really worth checking out Rosvall Books website as they have some really interesting books; Ted Rosvall himself is very nice and helpful; I expect my first order from him any day!
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Eurohistory on December 21, 2004, 12:46:11 AM
And just to reiterate some fact...Ted is not the only good, dependable royal book seller...Eurohistory.com sells many, rare royal books that no one else sells, not even RRB or RD...and certainly no one in America has our offerings and we also ship worldwide!!!!  ;)

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Sarai on January 21, 2005, 02:36:29 PM
I would like to know your recommendations about Crown and Camera: The Royal Family and Photography, 1842-1910 by Frances Dimond. I have read good things about it on the board but would like to know more. It seems to contain candid and rare pictures of Queen Victoria's immediate family, which is a treat! Many of the pictures from this book that have been posted here I have never seen before. I have read that the book is about 220 pages - do pictures and captions fill up most of those pages, or does it contain a lot of text as well? I have the book Happy and Glorious, which deals with photography from the reigns of QV to QEII, but I like that Crown and Camera seems to cover mostly QV's family and only covers her reign and that of her son. So how easy is it to find a copy of this book, and for a reasonable price (under $50)?
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Eurohistory on January 22, 2005, 12:18:54 PM
I saw a copy of it on Wednesday and honestly did not find it something that I owuld invest in...too blaw is perhaps the only way I can describe it.

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: PrinceEddy1864 on January 22, 2005, 12:24:32 PM
Oh I love Crown and Camera. I would caution you that it is a big book but probably about 1/3 of the images are actually Royals. The images they do have of Victoria, her children and grandchildren are wonderful though. I think it is worth it just that reason. There are a very few images of the Romanovs but none are really rare. The quality af the photos is very good and the captions give alot of info about the photos themselves, their sitters and photographers. I love it and di find myself referencing it for photos to post here on the forum. I hope this helps you.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Helen_Azar on January 29, 2005, 09:28:14 PM
I just got my copy of QV's Family (based on the recommendations here) and can't wait to look through it. Thanks everyone.
Title: "Queen Victoria At Home" by Micheal De-L
Post by: Dasha on April 21, 2005, 07:27:21 PM
I purchased this book last Saturday, and I just wanted to know if anyone here has either heard of it or read it.  Your opinions would be very much appreciated.  I apologize if this book has been discussed earlier.  Thank you in advance.
Title: Re: "Queen Victoria At Home" by Micheal
Post by: jfkhaos on April 22, 2005, 09:11:27 AM
Hi Dasha....I checked this book out from my local library, and although there is information in the book that seems to be in every other book, there are things I never read before and overall it's a good read.
Title: Re: "Queen Victoria At Home" by Micheal
Post by: Dasha on April 24, 2005, 10:42:03 PM
Thank you so much for your insight.  It is appreciated.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Ortino on August 29, 2005, 08:59:36 PM
I found on Amazon.co.uk that a new book is coming out about Beatrice, in January 2007 called The Last Princess: A life of Beatrice, Queen Victoria's youngest daughter. That's quite a while from now, but if anyone's interested in preordering they can.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0297847945/ref=pd_cpt_gw_i/026-4991339-3148451
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: anabel on May 13, 2006, 02:01:49 PM
Is this book worth buying and on which descendants does it focus?
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Prince_Lieven on May 13, 2006, 03:23:14 PM
BUY IT!!! :D :D It's absolutely wonderful, like all Aronson's books that I've read. It focuses on the descendants of Queen Victoria to first sit on various Continental thrones - Vicky, Edward VII, Marie of Romania, Maud of Wales, Alix of Russia, Ena of Spain, Mignon of Yugoslavia, Louise of Sweden, Ingrid of Denmark . . . I think that's all, though I may have forgotten some. It really is a lovely book, well worth buying.  :)
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: grandduchessella on May 13, 2006, 03:48:13 PM
Yes, definitely a must-buy! It was one of my earliest reads in college and I chased the book down until I got it. Part of the appeal is in the writing style of Theo Aronson. Much of the information may be known--and probably was gained from this book--but the way he lays stories out is fabulous. Definitely one of the great royal reads.  :)
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Kimberly on May 13, 2006, 04:13:57 PM
If you ever have a chance to get hold of this book GRAB IT it has to be one of the all time greats. Beautifully written and unputdownable. I have been trying to get my own copy for ages
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Eddie_uk on May 14, 2006, 05:59:31 AM
Interesting!!! their was a copy in my local book shop, will have to re-investigate!!!

Thanks for the reviews!  :)
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Ra-Ra-Rasputin on May 14, 2006, 07:46:55 AM
Ooooh this looks like a good buy!

There are plenty of copies on UK amazon, but they're not particularly cheap.  £15+.  Though saying that, it's cheaper than a new hardback, so you people with jobs will probably be able to afford one!  ;D

I found two hardback editions of Grandmama of Europe on UK amazon, one is the one published in Britain, the other in America.

UK edition:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/tg/detail/offer-listing/-/0304290637/all/202-2418519-9421415

US edition (most copies shipped from the US, but the starting price is cheaper than for the UK edition):
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/tg/detail/offer-listing/-/067251723X/all/202-2418519-9421415

I will keep my beady eyes open for a copy in my usual haunts...maybe I'll get lucky like I did with Hessian Tapestry...

Rachel
xx
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Ilana on May 14, 2006, 12:20:46 PM
To me, this is a "text book" in the same way Hessian Tapestry and Nicholas and Alexandra are....  A must read, stories beautifully woven together with such skill.  A big delicious piece of cake!
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Alixz on May 23, 2006, 03:30:03 PM
I scored a coup today.  I was looking on line for a copy of Grandmama of Europe and I found several in different used book sellers.

I was just abou to order when I noticed that address of the book seller, The John Bale Book Co was right here in CT and about 5 miles from my house!

I quickly raced to the address to find a wonderland of used books on every subject.  It is a store front book seller with a delicious lunch and coffee bar right on the first floor.

So I got Grandmama ,Land of the Firebird by Suzanne Massie and The Romanovs by W Bruce Lincoln and a great lunch for just $43 US.

I am in heaven and can't wait to go back again when I have longer  (like all day) to search in their inventory.

www.johnbalebookco.com   If you live in CT it's in Waterbury on Grand ST across from the Post Office.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Margarita Markovna on May 23, 2006, 04:36:31 PM
How far is Waterbury from New York (Westchester area)?
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Keith on May 23, 2006, 06:23:28 PM
Alixz,

Thanks for the info. I always enjoy hearing about used book stores. This will make a nice day trip from my area(Philadelphia)
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Ena on May 24, 2006, 11:17:43 AM
Quote
How far is Waterbury from New York (Westchester area)?
About 1.5 to 2 hours.    
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Margarita Markovna on May 24, 2006, 11:54:15 AM
Might make a good day trip then! :D
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Ra-Ra-Rasputin on May 24, 2006, 12:08:52 PM
What a lucky find, Alixz!  :D

I wish such things would happen to me, but there aren't many used booksellers around my way.  They all get pushed out by the big bad chain stores!

Though there are still the odd gems you find down back streets in London.  Though these said gems rarely have anything Romanov or Russia related in them at all.

I can't complain, however, seeing as I bought Hessian Tapestry for £1 in a charity shop and I've just seen a copy on ebay already at £15 and it has 4 days left!

Rachel
xx
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Eddie_uk on May 24, 2006, 12:09:23 PM
I'm half way through it and really enjoying it. Nice to read more about Vicky and Sophie especially. It was interesting to read Missys opinions on Alix and Nicky :)
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Alixz on May 24, 2006, 01:13:56 PM
ritka,

If you can take Metro North and change trains in Bridgeport, you can take the train to the Waterbury station which is at the end of Grand Street in Waterbury.  You would just walk up Grand Street a couple of blocks and the store is right there!

Philadelphia might be a long trip but Interstate 95 runs to Route 8 which runs right to Waterbury.

Just for information, I think my lunch cost more than each book!  Grandmama was the most expensive at $28 and Firebird and Romanovs were about $3 and $4.  I think lunch was about $8, but it was such an exquisit treat!!
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Alixz on June 18, 2006, 06:37:09 PM
I finished this book last night and I enjoyed it very much.  The author interwove the lives of all of the descendents of Queen Victoria very well.

I was surprised at how many who were crowned lived into the middle of the 20th century.  Even though some lost their thrones and some got them back after a while, Theo Aronson takes the reader right up until the end of their lives, not just the end of their time while ruling.

I think that the Scandanavian descendents were the most curious and amusing.  They were very un-royal as we think of royal.

But what I found the most interesting is that the beginning of Victoria's "matriarchy" began with Edward VII marrying a Danish princess and ended right back in Denmark with the marriage of Ingrid of Sweden to a Danish Prince.  Not that is has truly ended, because Victoria's descendents sill sit on thrones, but the book takes the reader on that trip.  From Denmark to Denmark in 100 years or so.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Eurohistory on June 18, 2006, 08:38:14 PM
Read A FAMILY OF KINGS, also by the late and very talented Theo Aronson, responsible for bringing so many of us such joy!

THE GOLDEN BEES, is also another one of his books that should be a must read on every royalty watcher's list.  Theo told me this was his favorite among all his books.

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: grandduchessella on June 18, 2006, 10:52:23 PM
Grandmama of Europe was one of my early QV reads and remains a favorite. I love Theo Aronson's books--what a great biographer.  :'(

I had gotten a copy long, long ago and dog-earred it and noted so many passages I had to buy a 2nd copy.  :)

Family of Kings is also great though GOE remains my favorite.

I'm only now getting into the Bonapartes and The Golden Bees is on my 'to read' list.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Alixz on June 19, 2006, 08:08:20 AM
Arturo,

Thanks to you I have looked into A Family of Kings.  It looks like a good read, but is very expensive.  It looks like it was never published in the US.

I have a question out to a Danish bookseller.  I hope he comes through.

I want to be sure if I spend too much for a book that it at least has the geneological charts in the back.

Thanks again,
Alixz
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Eurohistory on June 19, 2006, 03:47:28 PM
I know Eurohistory.com sells it and it is not that expensive.

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: grandduchessella on June 19, 2006, 06:37:22 PM
I purchased mine a few years ago through Royal Reprints from Piccadilly Press---they used to put out Royalty Digest. They still sell reprints though of books such as this that have been out-of-print for several years.

If you want the info:

http://www.picrare.com/Royalty_Digest/RDBookForSale/RDReprints.htm

Aronson, Theo: A FAMILY OF KINGS. 252 pages, illustrated, hardback. Originally published in 1976. Reprinted in 2000. Limited to 200 copies. £20.00. [UK postage and packing £3.25].
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Teddy on November 19, 2006, 01:59:28 PM
Who can tell me some titles from books, about the daughters of Queen Victoria?
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Prince_Lieven on November 19, 2006, 02:13:06 PM
'Victoria's Daughters' by Jerrold Packard is very good.
'Queen Victoria's Children' by John van der Kiste.
'An Uncommon Woman' by Hannah Pakula (about Vicky)
'Alice: Queen Victoria's Forgotten Daughter' by Gerard Noel (is that title correct?)
'Helena: A Princess Reclaimed' - I can't remember who wrote it and it's generally regarded as not very good.
'Louise: Queen Victoria's Unconventional Daughter' - I can't remember who wrote that either, and I think it's quite rare.

There's a new book about Beatrice coming out in 2007, but I can't remember the title or the author, sorry!  :-[
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: s.v.markov on November 19, 2006, 02:57:41 PM
'The Shy Princess ~ The Life of HRH Princess Beatrice, the youngest daughter and constant companion of Queen Victoria', by David Duff (of 'Hessian Tapestry' fame), published in London by Evans Brothers Ltd., 1958.

Excellent ~ as you would expect from David Duff.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Ra-Ra-Rasputin on November 19, 2006, 05:36:14 PM
Victoria's Daughters by Jerrold Packard is FANTASTIC.  It's got a lot of information in it, and is so interesting and well written that I whipped through it in a couple of days.  I love it; it's one of my favourite royal books.  Plus it has some lovely photos in it as well.

This one is a real must have, and it's totally inexpensive too- it's available used from £2.70 on UK amazon.  I can't recommend it enough!

I found a copy of 'An Uncommon Woman' by Hannah Pakula in a charity shop over the summer and started reading it, but am ashamed to say I've only made it half way through and had to suspend my reading when I went back to university in September.  I liked it, but it's VERY detailed and has a lot of political history in it, which makes it a much slower and more thought provoking read than other biographies.  I wish I had time to finish it so I could give a proper review, but what I've read so far I have enjoyed. 

I'm really looking forward to the new Princess Beatrice bio.  She's such an interesting character.

Rachel
xx
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Linnea on November 20, 2006, 01:49:43 AM
'Louise: Queen Victoria's Unconventional Daughter' - I can't remember who wrote that either, and I think it's quite rare.

It´s by Jehanne Wake. I got my copy at ebay for only some Euros. :D
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Marlene on November 20, 2006, 08:22:20 AM


Matthew Dennison is the author of the forthcoming Beatrice.

M.E. Sara and David Duff wrote bios on Beatrice.  David also wrote a bio on Louise.

There are at least 7 biographies in English on Vicky.

(and then there is Queen Victoria's Descendants -- cannot remember the author's name though)

Seweryn Chomet is the author of the Helena

'Victoria's Daughters' by Jerrold Packard is very good.
'Queen Victoria's Children' by John van der Kiste.
'An Uncommon Woman' by Hannah Pakula (about Vicky)
'Alice: Queen Victoria's Forgotten Daughter' by Gerard Noel (is that title correct?)
'Helena: A Princess Reclaimed' - I can't remember who wrote it and it's generally regarded as not very good.
'Louise: Queen Victoria's Unconventional Daughter' - I can't remember who wrote that either, and I think it's quite rare.

There's a new book about Beatrice coming out in 2007, but I can't remember the title or the author, sorry!  :-[
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Marlene on November 20, 2006, 08:23:13 AM
Also -- there is a Canadian book about Louise and Argyll.  (am not home to check my book catalog)

'Victoria's Daughters' by Jerrold Packard is very good.
'Queen Victoria's Children' by John van der Kiste.
'An Uncommon Woman' by Hannah Pakula (about Vicky)
'Alice: Queen Victoria's Forgotten Daughter' by Gerard Noel (is that title correct?)
'Helena: A Princess Reclaimed' - I can't remember who wrote it and it's generally regarded as not very good.
'Louise: Queen Victoria's Unconventional Daughter' - I can't remember who wrote that either, and I think it's quite rare.

There's a new book about Beatrice coming out in 2007, but I can't remember the title or the author, sorry!  :-[
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Prince_Lieven on November 20, 2006, 09:36:28 AM
'Louise: Queen Victoria's Unconventional Daughter' - I can't remember who wrote that either, and I think it's quite rare.

It´s by Jehanne Wake. I got my copy at ebay for only some Euros. :D

Lucky you! Is it any good?
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Kimberly on November 20, 2006, 10:53:56 AM
Liam, I have read Wake's book several times and enjoyed it ;)
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Linnea on November 20, 2006, 11:27:44 AM
'Louise: Queen Victoria's Unconventional Daughter' - I can't remember who wrote that either, and I think it's quite rare.

It´s by Jehanne Wake. I got my copy at ebay for only some Euros. :D

Lucky you! Is it any good?

I am half through it and enjoy it a lot! Interesting and well written and the pictures are beautiful too.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Marlene on November 20, 2006, 11:43:07 AM
It is a rather good biography, as Wake was able to access family papers. 
[/quote]

Lucky you! Is it any good?
[/quote]
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Kimberly on November 20, 2006, 12:01:54 PM
I've also got a copy of Marlene's QVD too ;)
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Prince_Lieven on November 20, 2006, 12:52:40 PM
How did you manage to get the Wake book Kim? That Welsh book haven of yours?  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Kimberly on November 20, 2006, 01:11:11 PM
Ahh Hay on Wye...heaven on earth. Nope, library. ;)
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Eddie_uk on November 20, 2006, 01:36:07 PM
I concur, I think Victorias Daughters is definitely in my top 5! I love the Hannah Pakulas bio on Vicky, but found the politics quite heavy going.

I am looking forward to the new Princess Beatrice biograph, I thought it was alreay published ???

There is another book on Princess Louise by Elizabeth Longford and contains mainly letters, interesting.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Ilana on November 26, 2006, 08:47:24 PM
E.F. Benson and Nina Epton also wrote books about "QV's daughters". Noel Gerard on Princess Alice....
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Teddy on December 22, 2006, 09:34:10 AM
Who can tell me about this book: LONGFORD, ELIZABETH (ED.),   Darling Loosy: Letters to Princess Louise, 1856-1939. ???
What kind of letters can you expect? Family letters? Such as Advice to a grand daughter?
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Eddie_uk on December 22, 2006, 10:22:01 AM
Hey Teddy! I have this book and is interesting. Lots of letters from her brother Arthur and some from Leopold and Beatrice. I don't think it's as interesting as Advice to a Grandaughter, is quite hard going in places but worth having :)
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: grandduchessella on December 31, 2006, 09:48:22 PM
It's a bit different from many of the books of letters involving members of Queen Victoria--chiefly because there really aren't letters from Queen Victoria in it. This lends it a different tone (in my opinion) from other books. On the other hand, I enjoyed reading letters in the 'voices' of members of the royal family that aren't usually heard from, especially Prince Arthur. The book isn't as rich as a could be considering the sheer amount of years that are covered. Perhaps this is because the letters just weren't there but it could just have been the choice selection. There was such a wealth of time that was covered--from the Victorian era through the Abdication and the eve of WW2. It would've been nice if the book was larger--it wasn't much bigger than some of the letters of Queen Victoria to/from Vicky that cover just 5 years. The book does provided a different perspective on the royals though and I'm really glad that I have the book in my library.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: s.v.markov on January 21, 2007, 11:03:02 AM
I found this very interesting photo album at a book fair today. Sub-titled 'Photographs from my Camera', it is arranged just like an old-fashioned photo album, with black and white photos loosely pasted in, and each page protected with tissue paper. Subjects of the photos include family groups, pets, ships, military manoeuvres, Sandringham, Balmoral, Nicholas II at Reval and the IF on board 'Standart', trips to Greece, Norway, Denmark, and loads more. No text, but all photos are captioned. Did I buy it? Of course I did! Does anyone know if these books came out regularly, or is this a one off? I think I recall seeing something like it on display at the 'Nicholas & Alexandra' exhibition in Edinburgh in 2005.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Robert_Hall on January 21, 2007, 11:18:19 AM
I think it was a One-off to raise money for  charity, Red Cross maybe. I have it here as well.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: grandduchessella on January 21, 2007, 05:52:24 PM
Yes, it was a charity item. There are a lot of copies of it available because of this--luckily, or it'd probably cost a fortune. There was a similar charity photo book that was put out that contained informal photos taken by various members of the British and Danish royal families--including 'Aunt Swan', Prince Arthur of Connaught, Queen Alexandra and, I think, the Duke of York (GVI), amongst others.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Ra-Ra-Rasputin on January 22, 2007, 02:29:45 PM
I have seen this book quite frequently advertised for sale on ebay- often for as little as 99p- I hope you didn't pay a lot for yours!

I believe Princess Mary and the two Elizabeths also released charity books, though they are story books with illustrations by popular artists such as Dulac and Rackham rather than photo books.

I am yet to get a copy of the Queen Alexandra album but I will get one eventually- it seems like a lovely book.

Rachel
xx

edited to add that there is a 99p copy for sale on UK ebay right now if anyone wants, only 20 hours left to go-

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/QUEEN-ALEXANDRASCHRISTMAS-GIFT-BOOK-1908_W0QQitemZ330076600431QQihZ014QQcategoryZ11100QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: carkuczyn on January 24, 2007, 01:02:15 AM
i am looking for a good biography on queen victoria.  Any recommendations?
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Grace on January 24, 2007, 04:02:42 AM
Two I would recommend are Queen Victoria: A Portrait by Giles St. Aubyn and Victoria R.I. by Elizabeth Longford.  Both are very good studies of the Great Lady by renowned authors and go into a lot of detail about other members of the family and personalities of the time.  These are classics!
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: grandduchessella on January 24, 2007, 07:52:16 AM
I love the St Aubyn bio and the Longford one was the first royal bio I ever read.  :)

I would add Stanley Weintraub's bio as well.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Kimberly on January 24, 2007, 03:17:09 PM
I love Theo Aronson's "Grandmother of Europe" ;)
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: s.v.markov on January 26, 2007, 04:09:12 AM
No, I didn't pay a lot more ~ it's amazing that such a very nice 1908 book can still be found so cheaply, while I couldn't find a copy of the fake Mouchanow memoirs for less than £75....until a very good member of this Forum stepped in and saved the day!
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: carkuczyn on January 28, 2007, 08:26:42 PM
As a Christmas present, I got "Queen Victoria, A Personal History" by Christopher Hibbert.  It has lots of good photos.  I have just started reading it and it seems pretty good so far although i am only into the third chapter.  Does anyone have an opinion on this biography?
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: ilyala on January 29, 2007, 12:14:06 AM
i have one by stanley weintraub, 'victoria, an intimate biography'. i found it quite nice although it didn't cover everything i was interested in.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: LadyCatherine on March 23, 2007, 12:32:47 PM
I know a lot of you have read just about everything out there on royalty and some of you have even written books yourselves!  I'm thinking about making a trip to the bookstore and wanted to know if anyone had any recommendations on any royal family of any time (I pretty much like all of it)!  I especially like ones with great pics (like Zeepvat's) or ones that are on a handful of royals (and have more specific info) like "Victoria's Daughters."  So...any ideas would be so helpful!
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Taren on March 23, 2007, 02:16:23 PM
I enjoyed Julia Gelardi's Born to Rule very much. It's about Victoria's five granddaughters who became the queens of Norway, Romania, Russia, Spain, and Greece.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Kimberly on March 23, 2007, 04:17:02 PM
Yep, I agree there. Also, if you get can your hands on ANYTHING by David Duff, go for it.
Sarah Bradford's bio of Diana Princess of Wales is excellent.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: ashdean on March 23, 2007, 04:20:01 PM
Theo Aronson's "Grandmother of Europe" & " A Family of Kings",Pope Hennesseys "Queen Mary",Robert K Massie's "Nicholas  & Alexandra"..Simon Sebag montefiore's "Prince Of Princes"...Felix Youssoupoff's "Lost Splendor",I could go on all day !!!
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: ashdean on March 23, 2007, 04:21:31 PM
Yep, I agree there. Also, if you get can your hands on ANYTHING by David Duff, go for it.
Sarah Bradford's bio of Diana Princess of Wales is excellent.

David Duff's HESSIAN TAPESTRY...and Hugo Vickers "Princess Alice"
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Prince_Lieven on March 23, 2007, 04:37:00 PM
Anything by Theo Aronson is worth it's weight in gold!!
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: TampaBay on March 24, 2007, 05:29:51 AM
Robert Massie's Dreadnought is a great book regarding the time period leading up ro WWI-Royalty & Politicians.

Excellent! Excellent! EXcellent!

Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: basilforever on March 24, 2007, 09:38:23 AM
Anything by Theo Aronson is worth it's weight in gold!!

No it's not. He was never fair to Prince Eddy.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: LadyCatherine on March 24, 2007, 09:58:10 AM
Wow!  Thanks everyone for the great ideas!  (Although I WAS shocked that "A Family of Kings" started at over $100!!  wow!  too bad I'm a poor college student! haha)  Seriously, keep them coming.  I think that the vast majority of forum users have read some interesting books out there and I appreciate any of your recommendations...
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Taren on March 24, 2007, 12:12:39 PM
Wow!  Thanks everyone for the great ideas!  (Although I WAS shocked that "A Family of Kings" started at over $100!!  wow!  too bad I'm a poor college student! haha)  Seriously, keep them coming.  I think that the vast majority of forum users have read some interesting books out there and I appreciate any of your recommendations...

From one poor college student to another: don't discount your college library. You might be surprised at what they have. I was floored upon discovering my school had a copy of Princess Alice, Countess of Athlone's For My Grandchildren. Also if they or another local library doesn't have what you're looking for, usually they can order it for you.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Grace on March 24, 2007, 04:50:37 PM
Anything by Theo Aronson is worth it's weight in gold!!

No it's not. He was never fair to Prince Eddy.

You have to give it to Basil - she makes no bones when she disagrees with something!  ;D

I love Aronson's books but agree with BF to an extent - you can often tell who he liked or otherwise.  ;)
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Prince_Lieven on March 24, 2007, 04:57:46 PM
Anything by Theo Aronson is worth it's weight in gold!!

No it's not. He was never fair to Prince Eddy.

I was expressing an opinion, which I'm sure you'll agree if I'm entitled to. Fairness to Prince Eddy usually isn't top of my list of requirements in a book.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Taren on March 24, 2007, 05:27:11 PM
Anything by Theo Aronson is worth it's weight in gold!!

No it's not. He was never fair to Prince Eddy.

I was expressing an opinion, which I'm sure you'll agree if I'm entitled to. Fairness to Prince Eddy usually isn't top of my list of requirements in a book.

I'm with you on this one, Prince L. I think it's possible to enjoy a book even if the author doesn't seem too fond of one of the subjects of said book. Victoria's Daughters for instance. The only time Packard seemed to show any sympathy for Vicky was when her two sons died. Though Vicky is one of my favorites, I still enjoyed the book. His negative opinion didnt mean I had to change my positive one.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Robert_Hall on March 24, 2007, 05:40:03 PM
Theo Aronson was quite objective with Eddy. The Prince was not the brightest candle on the Victorian xams tree, after all. TA cleared the guy of  the so-called scandals he had been rumoured to be involved in. Aronson remains a very readable popular historian and any of his titles are worth searching out. DEFIANT DYNASTY [Coburgs of Belgium] and Roya Vedetta [Crown of Spain 1829-1968] are excellent introductions to thos etopics and his volumes on the Bonapartes are the best [even to someone like me who does even care for that bunch too much].  The Grandmama of Europe and Family of Kings are practically bibles for royalty readers. I think Prince Lieven is correct in his opinion.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Grace on March 24, 2007, 07:11:34 PM
I think we may be getting into two separate areas here.  A writer can be objective with a character he is writing about without having a particular liking for that character if he is an author of considerable skill which the late Theo Aronson most definitely was, in my opinion.

An example is Aronson's treatment of Eddy.  Personally, I don't think Aronson had much respect for him but I do happen to think his book Prince Eddy And The Homosexual Underworld  is about as objective a book as you can get with the limited information Aronson had to go on. 

As Kimberly mentioned, Sarah Bradford is a great author and her latest biography on Diana is about as objective as it can be but one thing in it becomes quite obvious and that is that SB has absolutely no time for Sarah, Duchess of York, so it's obviously quite difficult for even the best regarded authors to be 100% unbiased and "objective".
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: carl fraley on March 25, 2007, 12:28:17 AM
Uncommon Woman by Hannah Pakula is ExCELLENT!  ALso "Queen Alexandra" by Georgiana Batiscombe is wonderful as well..  Queen Mary by JPH is one of the best reads ever...
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: basilforever on March 25, 2007, 04:52:49 AM
Theo Aronson was quite objective with Eddy. The Prince was not the brightest candle on the Victorian xams tree, after all. TA cleared the guy of  the so-called scandals he had been rumoured to be involved in. Aronson remains a very readable popular historian and any of his titles are worth searching out. DEFIANT DYNASTY [Coburgs of Belgium] and Roya Vedetta [Crown of Spain 1829-1968] are excellent introductions to thos etopics and his volumes on the Bonapartes are the best [even to someone like me who does even care for that bunch too much].  The Grandmama of Europe and Family of Kings are practically bibles for royalty readers. I think Prince Lieven is correct in his opinion.

I was referring to his writing about Eddy in Grandmamma of Europe, in which Aronson wrote about Eddy in a very stereotypical manner, which one finds in any common book or internet site about royalty in which Eddy is dismissed as ''dissipated, backward'' and other falsities! Was Eddy really any less intelligent than his mother for example? I don't think so. He was just languid and relaxed, so it seemed like there was less going on in his mind than there was. And there was SO much scrutiny on him being the future King. He wasn't stupid, he just wasn't an itellectual or very academically motivated or focused. He wasn't backward, that just isn't true, and I think such an opinion of Eddy must be rooted in a lack of understanding, so I was expecting MUCH better from Aronson, considering his GREAT reputation.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: TampaBay on March 25, 2007, 06:43:25 AM
The problem IMO was lack of education as none of the Wales children were very well educated.  This probably due to EVII rebelling aganist the exhausting education Prince Albert forced on him.  Albert got it right with Vicky & Alice but missed the boat with Edward VII.

TampaBay
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: TampaBay on March 25, 2007, 06:55:29 AM
As Kimberly mentioned, Sarah Bradford is a great author and her latest biography on Diana is about as objective as it can be but one thing in it becomes quite obvious and that is that SB has absolutely no time for Sarah, Duchess of York, so it's obviously quite difficult for even the best regarded authors to be 100% unbiased and "objective".

Well SB is not alone in her opinion of Sarah, Duchess of York.  Many many people feel as SB feels for different reason.  On the other hand, there are many many people who like Sarah, Duchhes of York for many different reasons.  The exact same thing can be said of Princess Diana.  Many people like her and many people do not.

TampaBay
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: basilforever on March 25, 2007, 10:52:49 AM
The problem IMO was lack of education as none of the Wales children were very well educated.  This probably due to EVII rebelling aganist the exhausting education Prince Albert forced on him.  Albert got it right with Vicky & Alice but missed the boat with Edward VII.

TampaBay

Eddy and his brother George had a sound education from Canon Dalton, but I think it was the WAY that they were taught which was lacking.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: TampaBay on March 25, 2007, 11:07:08 AM
BF,

I agree with you completely.  Thank you for clairification of my point regarding the Wales boy's education.

TampaBay
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Prince_Christopher on March 25, 2007, 06:24:23 PM
Also Good:

Princesses: The Six Daughters of George III, by Flora Fraser

Uncrowned King: The Life of Prince Albert, by Stanley Weintraub
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: basilforever on March 26, 2007, 04:24:35 AM
Uncommon Woman by Hannah Pakula is ExCELLENT!  ALso "Queen Alexandra" by Georgiana Batiscombe is wonderful as well..  Queen Mary by JPH is one of the best reads ever...

I was looking at Uncommon Woman in the bookstore today, and it does look excellent and this book has some great pictures in it, including some I don't think I have seen before. Very good illustrations section!
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Eddie_uk on March 26, 2007, 10:18:23 AM
Felicia!! The book is a REALLY good biography of the lovely, unfortunate Vicky (sadly she was much maligned in Germany, who  really didn't deserve her). I did find the politics got a little heavy in parts but it's a wonderful book.  :)

I've heard Hanah Pakulas biography of Missy is very good too. Saying that I loved "Born to Rule" too.

 :) :)
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: imperial angel on March 26, 2007, 01:20:44 PM
Yes, it is a great book if you can get through the political parts about Schleswig- Holstein and and all that stuff. There is much in there was well about various German wars, and Bismark. I liked it though despite the fact the politics sort of bored me. ;) Still you learn much about Vicky.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Duke of New Jersey on March 27, 2007, 06:15:53 PM
I think a good book is "Edward and Alexandra" by Richard Hough.  It doesn't have many photos and the ones it does have are well known.  The books does have many letters which makes it good and interesting. 

-Duke of NJ
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: basilforever on March 28, 2007, 09:01:48 AM
Many letters? I thought all of Bertie's and Alix's letters to each other and most of them to other people were burned?  ::) Or destroyed in some other way :-\
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Duke of New Jersey on March 28, 2007, 04:38:17 PM
Not letters from Edward or Alexandra, there are letters from some the peers/peeresses and the "Marlborough House Set" and various other people.

Sorry if I mislead anybody!

-Duke of NJ
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: TampaBay on May 03, 2007, 07:34:10 PM
Has a descent book been written on George IV?

TampaBay
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Duke of New Jersey on May 07, 2007, 02:20:34 PM
http://www.amazon.com/dp/1403983798/ref=nosim/?tag=theworldofroyalt
(http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/1403983798/ref=dp_image_0/002-2221887-2393644?ie=UTF8&n=283155&s=books)

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0750918217/ref=nosim/theworldofroyalt
(http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/0750918217/ref=dp_image_0/002-2221887-2393644?ie=UTF8&n=283155&s=books)

I hope this helps, I haven't actually read these books...yet.

-Duke of NJ
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Duke of New Jersey on May 07, 2007, 02:23:24 PM
That was the first time I even attempted to post photos and it didn't work!

A link I found:
http://www.royalty.nu/Europe/England/Hanover/GeorgeIV.html#GeorgeIV

-Duke of NJ
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Emperor of the Dominions on May 15, 2007, 07:05:38 AM
I've just finished reading "The Queen", by Ben Pimlott. This lengthy tombe as befits the long reign, I found somewhat hard going. It is littered with french and latin sayings that had me rushing to my various dictionaries. I was also surprised to find several spelling mistakes and words included that were out of context to the prose. Can anyone suggest a better read?

R.I.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Taren on May 15, 2007, 02:32:44 PM
Majesty by Robert Lacey. It was one of the first royal books I ever read and I definitely enjoyed it.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Grace on May 15, 2007, 04:11:28 PM
I would recommend Elizabeth by Sarah Bradford.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Mary R. on May 15, 2007, 06:30:14 PM
The Monarchy: An Oral Biography of Elizabeth II by Deborah and Gerald Strober is a great book that departs from the normal format. The authors have assembled various people some who came into direct contact with the queen. Various dignitaries, private secretaries, and government officials comment on various aspects of the queen's life. Several anecdotes are also in the book and show the queen's personality.  This was the book that sparked my interest hope you enjoy! No funny Italian sayings, so put your dictionary away!

If you're looking for an easier read (in my opinion), try Carolly Erickson's Lilibet. It's a different pace than the previous book, but certain scenes are depicted in great detail.

Regards,
Mary R.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Alixz on May 21, 2007, 06:07:13 PM
I just got a notice from Amazon that this new book will be out on June 4.

The full title is Twilight of Splendor - The Court of Queen Victoria During Her Diamond Jubilee Year

Sounds interesting.  It has both good and bad reviews on Amazon, but of course, those reviews are from critics not from everyday readers.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: TheAce1918 on May 21, 2007, 07:18:23 PM
I rarely ever listen to the critics on Amazon and other sites.  Only this one!
I saved it to my 'to read' list for the summer.  It does sound interesting.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: koloagirl on May 21, 2007, 08:42:56 PM
 ;D

Aloha all!

I have enjoyed reading all of Greg King's previous books -- to me they are always worthwhile!   :)

I will definitely be checking this new one out!  Thank you for the "heads up" on it!

Malama Pono,

Janet

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/Koloagirl/kaiulani.jpg)

Princess Victoria Ka'iulani Cleghorn of Hawai'i
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Bob_the_builder on May 21, 2007, 09:16:58 PM
Sounds like it will be similar to the way he did "The court of Nicholas II". Greg King is one of my favorite authors!
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Robert_Hall on May 22, 2007, 02:24:25 AM
Same here. Although no fan of QV and I cannot see her Court being in any "splendid" But, just because it is by Greg I ill get it. I will read anything he writes. I like his style and clarity.Also, his research is amazingly thorough. I wish him well with this latest work. It hurries up the next project!
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Alixz on May 22, 2007, 08:09:33 AM
Robert,

I agree with you about the "splendid" part, but aren't titles the province of the publisher?

Greg is only dealing with one year, and I suppose that the Diamond Jubilee Year could be seen as "splendid" as all the stops were pulled out and every royal family and indeed every country was represented.

Most of the books I have read only deal with the Jubilee in a chapter or even in a couple of paragraphs just to say who was there and who rode in what carriage.

In an aside, if Queen Elizabeth II is as long lived as her mother, what will they call her 70th or 80th year on the throne?  I always thought that diamonds were reserved for 75 years and that QV's celebration jumped the gun, so to speak.  But QV didn't live to reign for 75 years, QEII just might!
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Marlene on May 22, 2007, 09:17:21 AM
The book is actually rather good .....(and I like Queen Victoria)   :o 
Same here. Although no fan of QV and I cannot see her Court being in any "splendid" But, just because it is by Greg I ill get it. I will read anything he writes. I like his style and clarity.Also, his research is amazingly thorough. I wish him well with this latest work. It hurries up the next project!
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Ilana on May 22, 2007, 11:44:48 AM
Me, too!!!! (sorry, Lisa).
Title: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: grandduchessella on June 13, 2007, 06:32:34 PM
Some bits from the Vanity Fair excerpts:

Diana & Fergie: "And Fergie was back in Siberia, this time for good. The divorced duchess had cashed in with an anodyne memoir, some of which annoyed her sister-in-law—particularly one fatal line. She wrote that when she had worn a pair of Diana's shoes she caught a verruca—plantar wart—from them. Goddesses don't get warts. Despite Fergie's pleading apologies, Diana never spoke to her again. In 1997 the Princess gave a birthday party for her friend David Tang, the Hong Kong entrepreneur, and told him he could ask anyone he wanted. "Anyone?" he asked. "Anyone." "All right, then—Fergie." "Absolutely not," Diana replied, and would not be moved."

Diana's new fashion sense: "Her new evening dresses were minimalist and sexy, a look that had been taboo when she was an in-house royal. "She knew she had great legs, and after her divorce she wanted to show them off," said the designer Jacques Azagury. She wore his stunning red bugle-beaded tunic over a short pencil skirt in Venice in 1995 and his blue crystal-beaded cocktail dress six inches above the knee to an event in London in 1997.....Vanity Fair assigned the Peruvian-born photographer Mario Testino to capture her as she now wanted to be seen: a modern woman, active on the world stage—"vivid, energetic, and fascinating," in the words of Meredith Etherington-Smith, the former fashion editor who introduced Diana to Testino. When Etherington-Smith first saw Diana at Kensington Palace, she was astonished at how different she was from the formal, public Princess of old. Now, she wrote, she was "a tall, electrifying figure," wearing no makeup and "revealing the truest English rose complexion. Her hair—no longer a stiff helmet—free of lacquer and back-combing, flew around her head like a dandelion in the wind." With her unerring sense of the dramatic, Diana timed Testino's stunning shoot to appear on the cover of Vanity Fair on the first anniversary of her divorce."

Diana & the black dress: "That evening, June 29, 1994, at about the moment the Prince of Wales was heard on the air with Jonathan Dimbleby, his wife was stepping out of a limo to be the patron at Vanity Fair's annual fund-raising event for the Serpentine Gallery, in Kensington Gardens, hosted by her friend Peter Palumbo and Graydon Carter. She was wearing what fashion editors would later call among themselves "her f*** you dress," a short, sexy, off-the-shoulder black chiffon number with a scarf panel wafting from the waist, and black silk high-heeled Manolo Blahnik shoes. The dress's previously obscure Greek designer, Christina Stambolian, told the fashion commentator Georgina Howell that the Princess "chose not to play the scene like Odette, innocent in white. She was clearly angry. She played it like Odile, in black. She wore bright red nail enamel, which we had never seen her do before. She was saying, 'Let's be wicked tonight!'" The pictures of her that blew Charles off the front pages the next morning provided the perfect context for discussing the only line in the Dimbleby broadcast that anyone remembered—the one about adultery. Here was, as The Sun put it, "the Thrilla He Left to Woo Camilla.""

Diana & her mother: "She was not on speaking terms with her mother— Frances Shand Kydd, sadly, had become a drunk. She had lost her driver's license in 1996 after failing a Breathalyzer test. She told someone close to her that she had bicycled to a friend's funeral and, because it started to rain, hitched a ride home in the hearse. She was increasingly indiscreet about the royal family, referring to them as "German dwarfs," and said the Queen's dresses looked like something from the Red Cross. Frances infuriated Diana by giving a paid interview to Hello! magazine in May 1997 in which she innocently remarked that her daughter's loss of her H.R.H. title was "absolutely wonderful," since it allowed her to find her own identity. More seriously, she angered the Princess with the ferocity of her objection to her daughter's relationship with Hasnat Khan—"a Pakistani and a Muslim." Diana cut her off after that. Frances's letters apologizing to her were returned unopened."





Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: Robert_Hall on June 14, 2007, 01:30:23 AM
Dose Tina have any positive to say about Diana, or is the entire opus simply one, big hatchet job? Move over, Kitty Kelley........
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: grandduchessella on June 14, 2007, 07:28:41 AM
Actually, if you go back over the last several pages of this thread, the postings regarding the book seem to be generally favorable. It seems a well-rounded look, neither a hatchet-job nor a hagiography.
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: grandduchessella on June 14, 2007, 07:34:34 AM
From the Boston Globe: "In more than 500 pages Brown takes us on the lonely journey of Diana's life, starting, deftly, with her last night in Paris before switching to scenes of her alienated childhood. Brown wears a deep sympathy for her subject on her sleeve early on, writing that if only Diana had been loved by her husband, things might have turned out well. But Charles, who famously answered in an interview during his and Diana's engagement that he was in love, "whatever 'in love' means," gets an even-handed treatment here, and Diana herself is not spared for the sake of her memory....this worldly and engaging book is far from simply a recounting of a woman, known the world over, whose hopes and longings went fatally wrong."

From the Daily Mail: "Now, ten years after Diana’s death, Brown has written a portrait of the life and times of the Princess of Wales called The Diana Chronicles. What sets it apart from other biographies is the quality of the sources, the quality of the writing and the impartiality. Brown has a phenomenal contacts book and has interviewed, among others, the hitherto silent Sabrina Guinness, former girlfriend of Prince Charles; Diana’s American boyfriend in the Nineties, Ted Forstman; and Dr James Colthurst, a friend of the Princess who fatefully helped Diana to go public about the Royal Family by acting as intermediary with the author Andrew Morton....Brown’s book paints the Princess of Wales as romantic, mercurial, reckless, cunning and kind."

Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: grandduchessella on June 14, 2007, 07:40:34 AM
Some more tidbits from the book:

Prince Philip: While Prince Philip could be inexcusably rude, as he was to Sabrina Guinness when she made an unwelcome entrance with Prince Charles, he showed great sensitivity towards Prince William and Prince Harry. When William was at Eton, he would go for walks in Windsor Great Park with his grandfather....They shared a passion for military history...The bond of trust was tested at Diana’s funeral, at which her sons walked with Prince Philip behind their mother’s coffin. "I’m not going to walk in any bloody parade," William, aged 15, had protested. Philip cajoled him saying: "If I walk, will you walk with me?" Earl Spencer vehemently objected, saying Diana would not have wanted the boys to go through such an ordeal. Brown thinks Spencer was wrong and Prince Philip was right. She relates how Prince Philip then prevented the boys from breaking down along the route by talking to them quietly about each of the historic landmarks of London they passed.

The day of the funeral: "The Queen Mother’s page was requested to put flowers on Diana’s coffin. He noticed that the coffin was lower in its position than it had been earlier in the day. "Oh, that’s for the boys," said the chaplain, referring to the Princes. "

Prince Charles: "Particularly revealing was Prince Charles’s response to the death of his troublesome former wife. When he first heard of the accident, he thought she might return very damaged, mentally or physically, and was prepared to care for her. When he viewed her dead body in France, the hospital spokesman noted: "Another man emerged... a man utterly shattered by what was happening." In a curious moment of transferred emotion, he became agitated about the loss in the crash of one of Diana’s gold earrings and said repeatedly: "No, she can’t go without her second earring." Brown says: "Prince Charles had a great tenderness for Diana that had been brutalised by everything that had happened. "I was puzzled that the woman who was so empathetic to strangers turned her back on everything the Prince wanted her to do. I think we underestimate how hurt she was. She was so hurt and so incredibly angry."

William & Harry: ""From what I hear, Prince William is quite a wounded man," says Brown. "He masks it well with Windsor self-control and training but he is wounded. One of the reasons Kate Middleton was enduring was because he needed someone he could depend upon. "I wouldn’t be surprised if there were a lot of buried hurt within him that will maybe surface later." Brown is less concerned about Prince Harry: "Oh, he’s great, and Chelsy is a hand grenade of a girl. She’s a great young man’s girlfriend. I don’t think anyone is expecting them to marry. " Brown does believe that Diana would have put a stop to endless photographs of the Princes leaving expensive London nightclubs, often the worse for wear. "Diana had a sense of the media, a strong sense of how the royals could get their image right. You never saw pictures of her coming out of nightclubs with her skirt up. She never looked a mess, or inappropriate. And she was very strict with her children when it came to manners."

Diana & the al-Fayeds: Because there has been so much conspiracy theorizing about the cause of that accident, Brown devotes two full chapters to the tragedy. According to her, you can forget the talk that Diana was in love with Dodi, who was killed with her that night. She had no intention of marrying him, and nobody was out to murder them, even if Dodi's father keeps trying to convince the world that the royals have blood on their hands. Of course he would, says Brown: "She died because four men in Al Fayed's empire weren't looking after her": Dodi, "whose plans were as chaotic as he was"; Al Fayed, who approved his son's "cockamamie notion" of using Henri Paul, the acting head of security at his Ritz Hotel, to drive them "instead of a qualified chauffeur"; Henri Paul himself, "who was found to be concealing a blood alcohol level three times the legal limit," and bodyguard Trevor Rees-Jones, another Fayed employee, who did not ensure that the princess wore a seat belt. "Little wonder that Mohamed Al Fayed's storm of regret at the loss of his son has been so volcanic in its repercussions of blame," says Brown. She also tells NEWSWEEK she thinks Mohamed himself was in love with Diana. "He was mad about her, yes," says Brown. "Absolutely mad about her." There is perhaps something of Euripides in this story....Despite her evident contempt for Al Fayed, for instance, she cannot help but sympathize with him as he waits outside the morgue in Paris before dawn that late-summer night in 1997, hoping someone can be found with a key so he can see the body of his son. "

Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: grandduchessella on June 14, 2007, 07:56:58 AM
The cover of Newsweek, at least overseas:

(http://msnbcmedia3.msn.com/i/msnbc/Sections/Newsweek/Components/Photos/Mag/070618_Issue/nw_leftnavcov_OV_070618.jpg)

(from interview with Tina Brown):

Was Diana as good a mother as she's cracked up to be?
She was a very good mother. A very loving mother, actually. She lived for those boys.

And not just because they were heirs to the throne?
No, no. I think that was the least of it, actually. No, I think she adored those boys. I think that with the boys Diana got the only unconditional love she's ever had. It was a two-way street. She needed their love like they needed hers. She planned her entire day around them. Her calendar was rigorously protected for the sake of them. Like, "I can't do that, that's William's field day. No, I can't do that, that's Harry's sports day. I gotta be here this weekend. They're home. I don't care who it is. I don't care if it's a sheik wanting me to go ... "

You have no feeling that there was any chance of her marrying Dodi?
No.

Or anything remotely like that ... ?
No, I am so convinced that Diana would never have given up being Princess of Wales to be Mrs. Dodi Fayed. The boys didn't like him. That's why she wouldn't have married him. And also, you know, Diana was already giggling about the gold taps and the silly, you know, rugs on the plane. It was meant to be, it was a summer frolic. And even if she thought she might have been in love with him that month, by September the leaves would have turned and so would her feelings for Dodi. I am absolutely sure of it.

What about her love life with Prince Charles? What went wrong there?
I think she just bored Charles in the sack.

And he her, apparently.
And he her, but I think, in fairness to her, he was the experienced one and she wasn't. And, in the case of Charles, I think that he liked experienced women. Some men would be thrilled with an innocent girl who needs to be brought along.

A virgin.
A virgin. Which is what he bought. But other men just are not really turned on by it because they don't feel the girl's on his wavelength. To him, she wasn't on his wavelength. She felt very hurt by a realization that she just didn't do it for him. And I think, in her case, she was a girl who, once hurt, went into her mollusk [shell]. She could not function when hurt. When she perceived that her husband wasn't really very interested in her sexually, it hurt her so bitterly that she then withdrew.

Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: grandduchessella on June 14, 2007, 03:25:28 PM
Some more praise for the books--look at who the last one is from.  :)

"Nothing comes close to Tina Brown's book for its tight grip on the dark human comedy that was Diana's life and death. Brown knows the ritual dances, the shouts and whispers of the tribes of Britain better than anyone who has ever written this story but she also has a perfect ear for the way ordinary people responded to the doomed Princess. The result is a compulsively page-turning trip to the poisoned place where class met glamour and the result was catastrophe."
–Simon Schama, author of A History of Britain

"This is not only first-rate biography, but a marvelous social history, and a bitingly accurate portrait of the English upper classes."
–Michael Korda, author of Charmed Lives and Ike

"Tina Brown has produced something that is, as well as absorbing and stirring, witty and penetrating."
–Christopher Hitchens, author of God Is Not Great

"A delightfully smart and insightful book that... weaves a compelling human drama into a rich social history."
–Walter Isaacson, author of Einstein: His Life and Universe

"Intensely well researched and an un-put-down-able read, Tina Brown's extraordinary book parts the brocaded velvet and allows us an unprecedented look at the world and mind of the most famous person on the planet. A social commentary, a historical document and a psychological examination, written by a superb investigative journalist."

–Academy Award® Winning Actress Helen Mirren

The reader rating at Amazon.com is 4.5 stars out of 5 so far--based on 7 reader reviews.

Other books not yet released but due during this 'summer of Diana':

Diana and the Paparazzi by Glenn Harvey & Mark Saunders
Diana: A Princess Remembered  by Glenn Harvey
Diana: Her Story, as Told Through the Pages of People
Diana Style: Foreword by Manolo Blahnik by Colin McDowell
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: TampaBay on June 14, 2007, 08:32:06 PM
Dose Tina have any positive to say about Diana, or is the entire opus simply Move over, Kitty Kelley........

I have read the article and will buy the book this weekend.  It is not a " simple one big hatchet job "a la"  Kitty Kelley". 

Diana's strengths are highly praised and her weaknesses are clinically and throughly discussed. 

Also, for her fans, Fergie comes out pretty well and fairly protrayed.

TampaBay
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: Robert_Hall on June 15, 2007, 02:30:49 AM
Thanks for the assessment, TB. I am perfectly willing to stand corrected. I am in no rush to buy the thing, but will end up with it eventually, I am sure. Glad to hear you think Fergie was treated fairly.
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: grandduchessella on June 15, 2007, 05:05:37 PM
I had a chance to quickly flip through the book this evening at the bookstore and, to my surprise, the book has NO photos! Really surprising, and disappointing, given the subject and the large quantity, and quality, of them out there.  :(
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: ChristineM on June 16, 2007, 03:58:03 AM
Bought the book yesterday - and yes, Ella, there are no photographs.   I think this is to its advantage.   When I noticed this, I thought - ''This is a serious retrospective of the life and times of the late Diana, Princess of Wales which does not rely on pictures to grab a 'readership'".

I haven't yet got past the long, long - seemingly endless list of attributions, but I am anticipating quite a lot from this book.

tsaria

PS:  There's £4.00 off in Waterstone's.
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: grandduchessella on June 16, 2007, 02:31:09 PM
Maybe, but I found it to a disadvantage. I don't think a small selection of photos would be trying to 'grab' the readership. I think photos add to a biography, but that's personal opinion. Still, the book does look really well-done from my albeit brief examination and from what I've read of it so far. My other disappointment came from the fact that it didn't have a non-member discount yet. Boo! (This was at Books-a-Million) However, that usually kicks in once it hits the best-seller list which I'm sure it will by next week. Then it should be 10-20% off. Amazon.com has it for 40% off ($16.50) and amazon.uk also 40% off (£11.38).
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: Martyn on June 17, 2007, 12:30:51 PM
Bought the book yesterday - and yes, Ella, there are no photographs.   I think this is to its advantage.   When I noticed this, I thought - ''This is a serious retrospective of the life and times of the late Diana, Princess of Wales which does not rely on pictures to grab a 'readership'".

I haven't yet got past the long, long - seemingly endless list of attributions, but I am anticipating quite a lot from this book.

tsaria

PS:  There's £4.00 off in Waterstone's.

Right, That's good enough for me.  Having read the extensive information kindly supplied by GDElla and knowing that Tsaria is reading it, I will have to take the plunge and buy it.

I'm a bit shy of biographies about Diana but this one is intriguing me........plus I've just finished my serious reading material (a book about Howard Elphinstone, governor to Pce Arthur....not a bad read....).
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: TampaBay on June 23, 2007, 01:24:32 PM
Has anyone finished the Tina Brown book on Princess Diana?

Is there new info or just re-hash of the existing stuff?

TampaBay
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: Arleen on June 23, 2007, 01:47:27 PM
I am stuck in the "thinking about it" stage too, Tampa.  Probably I'll break down and buy it.

Arleen
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: Robert_Hall on June 23, 2007, 03:19:35 PM
"Brown...employed half a dozen high-powered researchers. She also claims to have interviewed over 250 men and women herself. Odd then, there is so little new material in the book. Time and again, stories that have been heralded as new turn out to be old'   Craig Brown, Mail on Sunday.  [as quoted in  The Times, 23 June]
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: Martyn on June 25, 2007, 08:35:24 AM
That is not a very fair view of the book.

I am 200 pages in and it is a good read.  As I said earlier, I am not keen on reading Diana biogs, but this one is different.  It contains interesting exploration of accepted notions and situations, with some good analysis of cause and effect.  She quotes endless sources and seems to know her stuff

Brown's style is not reverential and there are some wonderful sparks of humour.  Ok, so much of the territory is known - it is bound to be.  More important is how the information is all interpreted and discussed.

The book is definitely worth reading if you have any interest at all in any of the main protagonists - Diana, Charles, Camilla..........
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: ChristineM on June 25, 2007, 02:19:26 PM
I honestly thought Sarah Bradford's recent book on the late Diana, Princess of Wales could not be beaten, but - at 150 pages in - I think Tina Brown's book is excellent.   The information with which we are already familiar, is delivered in a very original and fresh style by Brown.   There are lots of nuances and observations which certainly heretofore had escaped me.

I certainly would not hesitate in making this recommended reading - worth every penny, even without dust cover and pictures.   Brown sources are impeccable.   An example is Lady Mountbatten's recollection of Diana's lack of interest in her brand new, sparkling engagement ring.   When she asked Diana if she could see it, it wasn't even on the newly affianced's finger.   It was elsewhere, in her handbag.   She ordered Charles to fetch it - which he did.
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: Grace on June 25, 2007, 09:57:28 PM
I don't doubt Lady Mountbatten's recollections, but this does seem very out of character for Diana, I must say.  ???  She loved Charles and she loved that ring - it was always on her finger - even after the separation and until her divorce.  Supposedly, the Queen was amused when Diana chose the biggest and most expensive one on offer at the time of her engagement.  :D
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: grandduchessella on June 25, 2007, 10:44:15 PM
Vanity Fair has an 8 page excerpt of the Brown book for anyone interested:

http://www.vanityfair.com/fame/features/2007/07/diana200707
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: ChristineM on June 26, 2007, 04:16:04 AM
Grace - I too thought it rather out of character for Diana, although she had stopped wearing both rings well in advance of her death.  I have no reason to doubt Lady Mountbatten's recollection.   She is the most accommodating woman - for people interested in her Hesse/Romanov origins, at least - and  not the kind of person who would make up such as story - especially when the subject is dead.

tsaria
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: Martyn on June 26, 2007, 07:03:19 AM
I must endorse Tsaria's opinion of this book.

I'm about 250 pages in and I am absolutely riveted both by the content and by Brown's style which is incisive and acerbic.  This book is most certainly not a hagiography but attempts to give us a clear understanding of all the characters involved in Diana's story.

Brown explodes quite a few commonly held notions about Diana and her life, and not often to the benefit of her subject.  The story of the engagement ring is just one of these, but if you will pardon the pun, it does have the ring of truth...........
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: grandduchessella on June 27, 2007, 03:48:50 PM


Given what I am learning from Tina Brown's book, perhaps this is a subject which should be pursued on the thread devoted to the Prince of Wales.

tsaria

Or maybe, given some of the other juicy tidbits (not all having to do specifically with Diana) dropped on various threads, a thread on the book itself?
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: Martyn on June 28, 2007, 05:02:30 AM


Given what I am learning from Tina Brown's book, perhaps this is a subject which should be pursued on the thread devoted to the Prince of Wales.

tsaria

Or maybe, given some of the other juicy tidbits (not all having to do specifically with Diana) dropped on various threads, a thread on the book itself?

I think that is a good idea.

Both Tsaria and myself are ploughing our way through this book, but I must confess that I shall have to re-read it before I can comment in any intelligent fashion upon it, as it contains so much information, and there are so many fantastic parts that need to be quoted.

Where would we have this discussion?  Personally I feel that it should be conducted here in the Windsor section to facilitate participation, as opposed to the section that is reserved for books elsewhere.......Do we have permission to discuss the book here?
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: TampaBay on June 28, 2007, 05:48:23 AM
Please post commentary about the book and quotes from the book.

TampaBay
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: ChristineM on June 28, 2007, 06:15:59 AM
Thanks Tampa.   

I'll start with a few words which actually, physically, hurt me.   They appear on page 40 and the lady being interviewed was one of Diana's childhood nannies.

'Today Mary Clarke lives in a tiny doll's-house-like cottage at Winterton-on-Sea, Norfolk.   She is a private, matter-of-fact blonde whose life revolves round her dogs and her horse riding.   She seems very sad still about how Diana's life turned out and angry with the royal family for turning the practical, warm little girl she looked after into, as she put it, 'a basket case and then rewriting her early life history to justify it'.

Somehow, for me, that just about sums it all up.

There is more... much more.   I think Martyn and I are just about living this book.   There is something about the pace Tina Brown has succeeded in setting which contributes to its unputdownability.   Sadly, I see Sarah Bradford is hurling insults.   This is such a pity because they are not competitors.   According to the well-established, highly-regarded biographer that she is, Sarah Bardford is accusing Tina Brown of tabloidisation (just made up that word - hope it works).   

I think it is Tina Brown's journalistic rigour which gives her book a certain 'quick-fix', addictive quality.   It is so 'quick' that, as soon as I finish it, I will read it again, but set MY pace not Tina Brown's.

tsaria
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: TampaBay on June 28, 2007, 06:22:38 AM
Though Vanity Fair has many good journalistic artices, the  indebth coverage of tabloid like stories by serious journalist as introduced by editor Tina Brown made the magazine the success it is today.

TampaBay
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: ChristineM on June 28, 2007, 06:26:05 AM
Yes, the woman is a success story.   She took the, dying, Tatler and shook it back into life before she set sail from these shores.   Thirty years later, the Tatler is still going strong - nobody would disagree - thanks to Tina.

tsaria
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: Martyn on June 28, 2007, 10:46:28 AM
I think that there is a quality to the book that is racy and fast, and which perhaps is suggestive of a journalistic approach, as opposed to a scholarly one.  I in no way intend that as a criticism, as I think that the book is well written and has an impact that most biographies lack. 

It's writing initiates a pace at which one must read and which almost propels the reader through the book; I am nearly at the end and will be obliged to start again at the beginning inorder to try to absorb all that the book contains...........

It's a pity that Bradford feels so threatened by this book; her style and that of Brown are so singularly different, that apart from the subject matter they can have nothing in common.  Tina Brown is not just successful with the written word; she actually performs well in front of the camera, which she demonstrated quite clearly with an intelligent and eloquent appearance for a BBC political programme last week.......
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: Grace on June 28, 2007, 05:20:53 PM
Here's what Sarah Bradford had to say about the new Tina Brown book:-

http://books.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,2112299,00.html  (http://books.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,2112299,00.html)

Any valid points raised here?  Perhaps so.  ;)
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: Grace on June 28, 2007, 06:15:15 PM
An interesting idea - has this actually been mentioned in the book?

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=275874 (http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=275874)

As for the comments of 'former prime minister' Bob Hawke (how I groan when I see public remarks made by one of them), he seems to forget his government was 'brutally' thrown out of office over ten years ago and, since that time, a referendum showed that the majority of Australians wanted to retain the monarchy - at least for the duration of the reign of Elizabeth II.
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: ChristineM on June 28, 2007, 06:21:01 PM
Oh dear - I haven't read this review as closely as I should given that its now well after midnight, but what I've gleaned smacks of sour grapes.

This is such a pity.   Given the plethora of books about the late Diana, Princess of Wales - most of which are re-worked sensationalist rubbish, here we have two very different books on the same subject - each with its own merits.

I thought Sarah Bradford's book was excellent, but the vitriol she is busy pouring over Tina Brown and her publication is fast leaving a nasty taste and, as a result, impacting on my, formerly, very positive opinion of HER book.   The irony is that, in many aspects, Sarah Bradford is infinitely more tolerant and understanding of the life and dilemmas which confronted that poor, haunted, hounded young woman - the late, the truly remarkable, totally unforgetable, absolutely irreplicable and irreplaceable - Diana, Princess of Wales.

Tina Brown, if she is wise - and lets face it, at No.2 in the New York Times best sellers list, she can afford to take the financial, if not the 'moral' high ground - she will remain above this childish squabble.

If you can afford it, buy the book.   You won't regret it.   (And there's £3.00 off the price in Waterstones.)

Best of all, we can compare notes and criticisms HERE.

tsaria
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 28, 2007, 11:23:02 PM
I was wondering how personaly close was Tina to Diana...? I think their paths must have crossed one time or the other ?  ???
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: grandduchessella on June 28, 2007, 11:48:01 PM
They did meet, at least once, in New York. That may have been the only meeting--at any rate, they were close or good friends.
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: grandduchessella on June 29, 2007, 12:09:00 AM
I noticed that I had started a thread on the book, splitting some of the previous posts about the book, and that there was also a thread started by TampaBay. Great minds think alike.  ;) I've merged the 2 now.  :)
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: aussiechick12 on June 29, 2007, 01:01:07 AM
A recent article in the Sydney Morning Herald:
SMH - Diana's Delusion Secretly Married and Living by the Pool (http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/dianas-delusion-secretly-married-and-living-by-the-pool/2007/06/08/1181089326400.html)

I haven't purchased the book, and don't really want to either. I have never read a biography of Diana, but after hearing many comments from people in my life, hearing her sons talk about her and seeing her in pictures, I have formed my own opinion of her. Personally I really don't like the treatment she has recieved after her death. She should be talked about in a positive way, because of all the great things she did for Africa and people with diseases such as leprosy and AIDS. Not surrounded by conspiracies (which have been disproven) and gossip.
And I don't understand how a woman who has met Diana "at least once" can be close or good friends, and could possibly write a book full of first hand information, or am I mistaken and her information came from second hand sources?
Sorry for my rant but here in Australia at the moment,  ::) "new" allegations about Diana seem to pop up every day, and her concert is being taken over (for want of a better word) by a "documentary" on Diana's last day. It's getting to me!  ;) I was really looking forward to the Concert for her, I think it's one of the most wonderful things I have heard of, or that her sons could do to celebrate her life. These kinds of books and documentry's are covering what Diana really did, and I know that Diana wasn't an angel, but she's probably done more for this world than Ms. Brown.
I know I'm not going to be liked for saying that, but this is my opinion.
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 29, 2007, 02:34:58 AM
Well I guess Diana is going to be contraversal in life and in death.  :(
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: Martyn on June 29, 2007, 04:09:57 AM
I can understand the criticisms that Bradford levels at this book but what I cannot forgive is the terrible snobbery that she resorts to with comments like 'you can take the girl out of the magazine but you can't take the magazine out of the girl'.  Bradford is a snob, in love with her aristocratic subjects not for who they are as people but for what they represent in hierarchical terms.

Brown's book is fast and at times chaotic.  It does chop and change and its chronology is at times almsot unnerving.  What one does sense is the passion that Brown has employed in the writing of this book.  Not for her the milquetoast approach of Bradford; she embraces all the characters fully and attempts to analyse everyone and everything.

This book does not disappoint.  Like aussiechick, I  have traditionally been wary of books about the late Princess.  This one is different and has given me a clearer understanding of her life and background, and also encouraged me to try to understand the positions of Charles and Camilla in all of this.

The concert will be amazing.  A fitting tribute organised by her sons to remember her.  I am sure that Diana would have approved heartliy, especially as they have recruited Duran Duran, one of her favourite bands from the 80's, to appear...........
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: ChristineM on June 29, 2007, 06:02:51 AM
Martyn, you are absolutely right - Sarah Bradford is an arch-snob.   Historically, to watch her being interviewed is an exercise in total elitism (complete with heavy gold chain which never seems to part from her neck).   She is Viscountess Bangor - and is very conscious of her title.

Surprisingly given the warm tones in which she writes about the late Diana, Princess of Wales, Sarah Bradford comes across as one of those types of people whom Diana would have given a very wide berth.

Tian Brown, on the other hand, is someone whose compnay Diana would have relished.   It seems that part of Sarah Bradford's problem is Tina Brown's use of 'contacts'.   Well, I think Tina Brown probably had the opportunity to interview contacts who either didn't enter Sarah Bradford's radar or whom Sarah Bradford either by omission or commission failed to interview.

Anyway, this thread has been created to discuss the contents of Tina Brown's record and not the very one sided furore surrounding its publication.

Unlike Martyn, thus far, I have been unable to find one iota of either empathy or sympathy for the Prince of Wales or Mrs Parker Bowles as portrayed by Tina Brown.   It seems to me there was a relentless, cold, calculation going on behind Diana's back, from the outset.   The Prince of Wales is a victim of his circumstances and of his upbringing, but, come on, the day comes when every single one of us has to stand on our own two feet and be counted.   Why should he be an exception?   And, lets be honest, he has more than enough to compensate for negative aspects his role in life brings.   

(I am writing within the context of this book and of the relationship of the Prince of Wales with his former, now late, wife.   In no way is this intended as a general criticism or disrespect of his very fine work. both within the UK and overseas).

tsaria

 
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 02, 2007, 08:11:14 PM
I am reading the book. It is a good read and a new twist on the old tale. Enjoyed it very much !  ;D
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: ChristineM on July 03, 2007, 06:01:12 AM
Oh, Eric....... as always, a man of few words.   But they are worthwhile words!

tsaria
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: Robert_Hall on July 03, 2007, 08:40:51 AM
Oh, blast it! I just ordered it. Better be as good as all you folks are claiming it to be. I have 2 shelves of books about Diana, and this is the first one I actually bought!
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: Martyn on July 03, 2007, 11:28:04 AM
Oh, blast it! I just ordered it. Better be as good as all you folks are claiming it to be. I have 2 shelves of books about Diana, and this is the first one I actually bought!

Well, it's the only one that I own that is about her life but I reckon it's the best.

I have finished reading it and am starting again at the beginning.

It is worth it, Robert..........
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: imperial angel on July 03, 2007, 12:54:53 PM
A recent article in the Sydney Morning Herald:
SMH - Diana's Delusion Secretly Married and Living by the Pool (http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/dianas-delusion-secretly-married-and-living-by-the-pool/2007/06/08/1181089326400.html)

I haven't purchased the book, and don't really want to either. I have never read a biography of Diana, but after hearing many comments from people in my life, hearing her sons talk about her and seeing her in pictures, I have formed my own opinion of her. Personally I really don't like the treatment she has recieved after her death. She should be talked about in a positive way, because of all the great things she did for Africa and people with diseases such as leprosy and AIDS. Not surrounded by conspiracies (which have been disproven) and gossip.
And I don't understand how a woman who has met Diana "at least once" can be close or good friends, and could possibly write a book full of first hand information, or am I mistaken and her information came from second hand sources?
Sorry for my rant but here in Australia at the moment,  ::) "new" allegations about Diana seem to pop up every day, and her concert is being taken over (for want of a better word) by a "documentary" on Diana's last day. It's getting to me!  ;) I was really looking forward to the Concert for her, I think it's one of the most wonderful things I have heard of, or that her sons could do to celebrate her life. These kinds of books and documentry's are covering what Diana really did, and I know that Diana wasn't an angel, but she's probably done more for this world than Ms. Brown.
I know I'm not going to be liked for saying that, but this is my opinion.



I have read many, many Diana, Princess of Wales books, both bad and good and inbetween no doubt, although I haven't read the one this thread is about yet. I read the Bradford one last fall, and no doubt posted my opinion at the time, but I think Bradford's aim ( sorry if this is repititious) was just to be objective and relay the facts in a way that wouldn't stir up too much controversy. That's not a bad aim when so many of the books about Diana that are more controversial abound. It sounds like this book is different in the sense that it is more interesting than just the uncontroversial facts, but that it has authority, in my opinion. It sounds like an interesting mix. I have read so many biographies about the Princess, but the story never gets dull, because her life story was so dynamic, and everyone seems to have a different slant on it, and in the more recent books, there is the perspective that comes as time goes by, which so many books published around the time of her death, or in her lifetime didn't have. This book seems to fit that description, and sounds like it is worth it.


I agree she should be remembered in a positive way, I guess most biographies focus on her private life, which can be remembered in a positive way or not , depending on the book. I think remembering her for the things this poster said is best, and I thought that book of a few years ago Diana: The Portrait focused on that part of her life, and did it well- I think the that's an enjoyable book to read if you think she should be remembered that way. But, I guess that's not the whole story, because it's when people write about her private life that the conspiracies/allegations/gossip comes in, and you can't really write a book about her without discussing her private life ( well, it became her public life), because there's more to her story than just the wonderful work she did as mentioned above in that post. But, I think she would have wanted to be remembered for that.
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: Grace on July 03, 2007, 05:18:21 PM
The Brown book is good (though I question a few things in it) but I do not think it supersedes Bradford's, all the same.
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 03, 2007, 07:50:32 PM
I think Tina was very smart to invites us on a jouney on the life of Diana. Not only did she talks about Diana but the times as well...I kept think where was I when this was happening ? It is a book for us on Diana not a book about Diana to us.  ;)
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: NAAOTMA on July 03, 2007, 08:54:46 PM
Tina Brown's discovery that CBB was a deadringer for the PoW's beloved nanny was an interesting observation on her part...Tina Brown's intuitions/observations on events in the sad saga of the marriage of the Prince and Princess of Wales cast new new perspectives on those events.

Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 03, 2007, 09:13:51 PM
Yes...Although I also think that CPB looked also similar to his Aunt Sophie (Princess Georg of Hannover).  ???
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: NAAOTMA on July 03, 2007, 11:37:37 PM
Tina Brown's point in the resemblance is reference to the phenomena that men are often attracted to women who look like their mother...in this case, he was attracted to someone who bears a strong resemblance to a beloved surrogate mother---his beloved nanny.

I also meant to write CPB, not CBB, in my post...sorry for the typo.
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 03, 2007, 11:51:22 PM
Well...Tina also made a point that CPB is an experienced woman who made him feel wonderful. I don't think Mabel can do that though... ;D
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: ChristineM on July 04, 2007, 06:15:28 AM
In that case, wasn't he lucky to find a woman who could do both!   

Part of the value of this book is that it informs so much about the other characters whose lives impinged directly on the girl who became Princess of Wales.   I haven't quite finished it yet, but I remain steadfast in one opinion.   From the outset, Diana did not stand a chance... precisely because she was determined to be 'herself'.   She was not prepared to compromise and, as a result, paid a hefty price - starting with bulimia... ending with death + all the unimagineable emotional turmoil in between.

tsaria
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 04, 2007, 08:00:35 PM
Agreed...With all that. I wonder if anyone would want to marry into "that family". Maybe Kate made a good escape ?  ???
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: Martyn on July 05, 2007, 04:26:21 AM
Brown's book successfully blends the public and private aspects of Diana's life; you can't have one without the other.

Brown illustrates quite clearly that Diana never stood a chance.  Her background, social and emotional, her upbringing and her expectations all collided massively with the emotionally mothballed Windsors; that she rose above the disaster of this association and endeavoured to make a difference is a point well made in this book.

It is an eternal pity that her life was cut short, just when it had started to get really interesting.  Brown's book depicts the best and the worst of it all, but ultimately gives us a rich and detailed exploration of this incredible journey that was Diana's life.
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 05, 2007, 05:12:08 AM
Well said ! I couldn't put it any better in words... ;D
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: ChristineM on July 05, 2007, 11:02:13 AM
I'll echo that, Eric.

Perfectly expressed, Martyn.

Diana was like a meteor which flashed through the House of Windsor.   They were blinded by her brilliance.   They failed to recognise the true worth of this woman - not just to the Monarchy, but the UK as a whole.   I wonder if, in retrospect, they pause... and think?

Did she make a lasting difference?   If so, how?

tsaria
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: NAAOTMA on July 05, 2007, 11:09:51 AM
For the Windsors it will be "B.D." and "A.D."
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: Grace on July 05, 2007, 04:12:32 PM
For the Windsors it will be "B.D." and "A.D."

I can't see this, personally.  Diana certainly caused waves within the family when she was alive but, ten years down the track, I really don't see any noticeable difference in the way they do things from before she came along in 1981.  They just steam along as they always have, in my opinion.  ???
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: NAAOTMA on July 05, 2007, 06:47:45 PM
The end chapters of Tina Brown's book do make a case for "B.D." and "A.D"---but of course you might think that Tina Brown's book is rubbish...to each their own opinion, including Tina Brown having hers.
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 05, 2007, 07:51:14 PM
I think Diana made an impact on how the Royals should be and how if they want to be relevent in the 21st century. Figues like QE II had worn their laurals in the past, it is how Prince Charles can hold on to the heritage. I think after the Queen goes, Australia and Canada will ditch the Royals and establish their own head of State. Anyway I don't see them cowing under the mat to meet Camilla, Duchess of Cornwall (aka Princess of Wales and future Queen).  ???
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: ChristineM on July 06, 2007, 04:27:09 AM
BD v AD

The line is being drawn in the sand by Diana's sons.   Prince Charles with his anachronistic notions, in monarchical respects - in other ways, as I have expressed elsewhere, he has proved a man ahead of his time, however it is the House of Windsor which is being addressed here - is so conscious of his 'exalted' position and HIS rights that, even his mother, the Queen has been known to remark, disapprovingly, on her eldest son's lavious and ostentatious tastes and lifestyle.

It is in Princes William and Harry that we will - and can - see the difference.   Both of them are much more down to earth and somehow, probably intuitiviely, know that for a royal family of the 21st century, less is more.   Seems to me we only have their mother to thank for this.

tsaria
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 06, 2007, 04:33:34 AM
Well...It really boils down if William can get past his parent's broken marriage and forge ahead with his life. If he can prove that monarchy is relevent and reinvent the magic, it would sway people to think monarchy again. However since Charles is aheard of William, people will want get a clean slate and have their indepenence away from Charles & Camilla. The new immigrants in Australia & Canada will sway the votes... ???
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: ChristineM on July 06, 2007, 04:42:17 AM
The new immigrants to the UK - Poles, Latvians, Roumanians (mostly of the gipsy variety), Pakistanis, Iraqis, Kurds, (in Peterborough they offer free translations services in 122 lauguages - THEIR boast - OUR taxes) might also feel entitled to have a say!   Though why the should on a 1000 year old monarchy, I fail to understand, but that is New Britain for you.

I can see exactly what you're getting at, Eric.   Even before William will have the opportunity to be his own man/king, we have the hurdle of Charles and Camilla to overcome.   The jury is still out on that, although opinions have changed little towards the Prince of Wales, there has been a slight thawing in attitude to Camilla.

tsaria
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 06, 2007, 05:00:26 AM
Indeed ! Although Charles has improved in the ratings as a good dad and a cool guy. The shadow of Diana continue to loom over him and his consort. It is still three in the marriage even though Diana is gone, but still remembered. I think Britian will eventually root for him but would the Cmmonwealth ? That had been the beloved of the Queen and they will stay stadfast until she goes...It would be dangerous if William had no role to play and had to wait for both his granny & Papa to die...Anyway he might lost interest in the monarchy business. It is all up in the air. No wonder people hope to see William tied down to (hopefully) domestic bliss.  ???
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: Grace on July 06, 2007, 05:05:27 AM
Indeed ! Although Charles has improved in the ratings as a good dad and a cool guy.

Pardon my scepticism, but do we have any real evidence that he is either?  ???
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 06, 2007, 05:21:48 AM
That is my point...How to get from QE II to William... ???
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: ChristineM on July 06, 2007, 05:23:38 AM
Grace, you well-known little sceptic you - I agree with you.

Good father = Good PR.   I have never seen any real manifestation of what I would call a 'good father' in the Prince of Wales.   That, probably, is not fair.   We have no way of knowing how they live their lives outwith the public spotlight, but so far as I am aware, Charles has endeavoured to spend ALL his life as close to Camilla as possilbe.   Were he my father - I don't think I would find it in my heart to consider him a good father.   I know.   I had a very, very good father.

The fact that in a few photographs alongside his sons, the Prince of Wales has been seen to be demonstrative is thanks to one person and one person only, his sons' mother.   Equally it is due to her example that Princes William and Harry have been able to deploy such a 'hands-on' relationship not just with their father but with their stepmother.   It is Diana who is responsible for the Press giving us the imPRESSion that the Prince of Wales is a good father.   I have no doubt he loves his sons, but there is a vast difference between that and being a good father.   

Since the death of their mother, these boys have had to learn, just as they go along.   I think this is why not one, but both of them have tied themselves so closely into just one girl (each).

tsaria
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: ChristineM on July 06, 2007, 05:26:04 AM
Eric - you posted just before mine.

You are absolutely right THAT is the question.   It is not through want of trying on the Prince of Wales part.   He just somehow doesn't seem to manage to get 'it'.   We can only hope that HM reigns a longer, healthy reign, or that her heir tries to undo decades of the wrong kind of conditioning.

tsaria
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 06, 2007, 08:58:44 PM
I agree...Long may HM reign. Lets hope by the time she passed away, the question of Charles & Camilla would resolved itself.  ;)
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: Robert_Hall on July 06, 2007, 09:16:35 PM
Well, ultimately, it is not up to anyone  but Parlaiment. Charles cannot abdicate from something he does not have, nor can anyone else accept something have not been given. The succession might well be assumed, but it is the legal act of Parlaiment that appoints the next monarch. Having said that, I have no clue as to what may happen in Scotland [Tsaria!!!?] as my only Scotish friends are SNP and want desperately to see the back of the Windsors- or have them pay fair taxes!
 All-in-all, though, I would love to live to see William as king. Diana's true gift to the nation. That is, if the monarchy survives.
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 06, 2007, 09:58:07 PM
Agreed ! However it is up to William to prove himself what he is made of. Charles used to be such a promising heir, but the failed marriage exposed his faults, pettiness and stuck up (all curtesy of Diana in her interviews and books). I think who William choses and how he conducts his family life and career is of paramount importance for the monarchy to be relevent in the next decade or so.  ???
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: grandduchessella on July 06, 2007, 10:07:25 PM
Well, ultimately, it is not up to anyone  but Parlaiment. Charles cannot abdicate from something he does not have, nor can anyone else accept something have not been given. The succession might well be assumed, but it is the legal act of Parlaiment that appoints the next monarch. Having said that, I have no clue as to what may happen in Scotland [Tsaria!!!?] as my only Scotish friends are SNP and want desperately to see the back of the Windsors- or have them pay fair taxes!
 All-in-all, though, I would love to live to see William as king. Diana's true gift to the nation. That is, if the monarchy survives.

Well, if he really wants to get out of it, he can just convert to Catholicism! That would do it.  :)

You're not that old Robert--I'm sure you'll live to see William become King.  ;)

Really, the Queen just seems remarkable in her stamina--and Prince Philip as well. These 2 are in their 80s!! It's hard to believe sometimes when you see them out and about. Charles is almost 60--won't he be the oldest person to assume the throne before long, if he isn't already? If his mother lives as long as her mother, he'd be about 80 when he assumes the throne. I think that, no matter what, he won't have a long reign and that, if he does ascend, people will already be looking over him to William. By many standards, it's a bit of a wasted life (though I hate to use that word) since, if he assumed the throne tomorrow, he's well into middle age and has spent decades in what seems, by various accounts, a state of serious frustration. Given his varied interests, it almost seems like he would've been better off as the 2nd or 3rd son and allowed to 'live his life' rather than exist in a state of limbo.
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 06, 2007, 11:13:42 PM
Do remember Edward VII came to the thone late in life and became quite a competant king.  ::) however he got the loyal and long suffering Queen Alexandra at his side. Some even claimed that her popularity kept the throne for him. Too bad it is not the same with Charles. I don't think Britian would have accepted Edward VII and Queen Alice (Keppel)... :P
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: Antoniam on July 07, 2007, 03:39:04 AM
Grace, you well-known little sceptic you - I agree with you.

Good father = Good PR.   I have never seen any real manifestation of what I would call a 'good father' in the Prince of Wales.   That, probably, is not fair.   We have no way of knowing how they live their lives outwith the public spotlight, but so far as I am aware, Charles has endeavoured to spend ALL his life as close to Camilla as possilbe.   Were he my father - I don't think I would find it in my heart to consider him a good father.   I know.   I had a very, very good father.

The fact that in a few photographs alongside his sons, the Prince of Wales has been seen to be demonstrative is thanks to one person and one person only, his sons' mother.   Equally it is due to her example that Princes William and Harry have been able to deploy such a 'hands-on' relationship not just with their father but with their stepmother.   It is Diana who is responsible for the Press giving us the imPRESSion that the Prince of Wales is a good father.   I have no doubt he loves his sons, but there is a
vast difference between that and being a good father.   

Since the death of their mother, these boys have had to learn, just as they go along.   I think this is why not one, but both of them have tied themselves so closely into just one girl (each).

tsaria


It was the media pre Diana's death that decided to stereotype Charles as the "cold and distant father". Diana was the 'good' parent and Charles the 'bad'. The editors of newspapers would deliberately choose photos to perpetuate this stereotype. The best example are the pictures of Charles and Diana greeting William and Harry on Britannia after a tour of Canada. All the papers printed the pictures of Diana with her outstetched hands going to hug her sons, William first. What they choose not to print was Charles with his hands outstretched and going to hug Harry. ( These pictures were eventually published by the photographer herself in her book after Diana's death) Diana going to hug the boys (warm caring mother) no picture of Charles doing the same so therefore he's the cold distant father. It was only after Diana's death when the media didn't selectively choose photos of Charles to fit their stereotype that the preception shifted that he was a good father. His sons in the few interviews they have given have always spoken positively and have given credit to him. Including the end of the Diana concert when Harry said he and William would use the example of BOTH their parents in going forth with their charity work.

Diana was a mother of her class and generation, she had nannies and nursery assistants. Her sons went to boarding school when they were 8 years old, not at Charles's insistence but hers. She wanted them to attend Eton ( her father and brother went there, Charles had no problem with that as he hated the schools he attended) so first they went to Ludgrove House an Eton preparatory school. From Charles and Diana's separation in 1992 when Harry was 8 and William 10, Diana physically saw her sons 42 days a year. Their time was evenly divided between both parents, since they were at boarding school most of the time, each parent got them for 42 days. While she may have been a good parent her sons were also close to the various nannies they had who also had a lot to do with their upbringing.

As far as how well her sons get on with their step-mother due to Diana, the opposite would be the case as Diana was openingly disparaging of Camilla calling her rude names infront of her sons and to her sons. Their relationship now is due to Camilla's influence and personality, not Diana's.

We have video footage of Charles and his sons at a polo match and also his Prince's Trust interview with his sons to help see what kind of relationship he has with his sons. They tease and banter and are quite relaxed, Harry in one of the Diana interviews said how he talked over his possible deployment to Iraq with his father. The boys and Charles are close and he's very protective of them. Case in point not allowing Harry be hung, dried and quartered in the media over a rather poor choice of fancy dress costume. Fighting for William's privacy while he was studying at St Andrew's. Diana and Charles spent so little time co-parenting ( unlike Sarah and Andrew) that Charles's relationship and closeness to his sons is due entirely to his character and not Diana's influence.

Diana was a rather poor role model as far as relationships were concerned as her sons are not following her example. That more than likely is why they have maintained long term relationships with one woman ( respectively!)
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: Robert_Hall on July 07, 2007, 08:26:02 AM
Well, if he really wants to get out of it, he can just convert to Catholicism! That would do it. - GDELLA

As there very strong sentiment  for abolishing that  odious restriction, becoming a Catholic might not work. The Acts of Succession have been under serious discussion for some time now, and that is one of the first to go. Just have to wait for Parlaiment  [and Goedon Brown].
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: dmitri on July 07, 2007, 10:51:59 AM
I am afraid I must agree with Sarah Bradford. I had the misfortune to have to endure Tina Brown's tabloid trash character assassination of the late Diana, Princess of Wales. It is just a nasty rehash and full of heresay. Brown's book is clumsily written and a very poor tome. Don't waste your time. Sarah Bradford is a highly respected biographer. Her biographys of George VI, Elizabeth II and Diana are well researched, factually correct and well written. Her criticisms of Brown are not vindictive, but sadly only too true. 
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: Robert_Hall on July 07, 2007, 02:56:34 PM
Thank you something other than an  than adulatory view of Brown's book, Dmitri.  I had that same idea initially, but have succumbed and ordered the thing now. I am in no rush to read it however.
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 07, 2007, 11:49:18 PM
I beg to differ...I think Brown's book spoke more to me and about the times than Bradford's (only a run of the mill royal bio).  :(
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: Grace on July 08, 2007, 05:52:15 AM
I beg to differ also - that Bradford's biography of Diana was 'run of the mill' - Sarah Bradford has never written a 'run of the mill' biography yet,  but she is no sensationalist either.  ;)  I repeat what I said earlier that I believe her biography has not been superseded by Tina Brown's.
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: dmitri on July 08, 2007, 07:27:10 AM
Well said Grace!
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: Eddie_uk on July 08, 2007, 11:46:00 AM
I agree Grace!! I flicked through Tina Browns hot pink book today and thought it appeared rather gossipy.

Incidently according to Brown, Diana was on speaking terms with her grandmother when she died and even asked for her grandmothers forgiveness. I know Lady Fermoy never put a foot wrong, but why would Diana feel the need to do that??
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 08, 2007, 07:34:00 PM
Diana disapointed the older woman's ambition and hopes to stay in good terms with "The Firm". :(
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: Martyn on July 09, 2007, 07:43:19 AM
If you like Bradford's approach to the subject matter then you are probably not going to like Brown's.  The two are as different as chalk and cheese.

I get rather bored with Bradford's slightly languid explorations of her subjects and much prefer Brown's faster pace and harder analysis, but that is my personal preference.

Each has its place in the roll of works about Diana's life; I still think that Bradford should have kept her plummy trap shut and avoided the ridicule that is invited by such sour criticism of a fellow author.

Ultimately, the reader will decide which work they prefer.
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: dmitri on July 09, 2007, 10:05:48 AM
I guess Bradford has the right to comment as she is a respected historian. I wonder what Brown is?
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: Martyn on July 09, 2007, 10:09:54 AM
I guess Bradford has the right to comment as she is a respected historian. I wonder what Brown is?

A successful journalist who has written a successful book.

I would be more interested in what Bradford had to say if she abandoned her deeply ingrained snobbery............
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: ChristineM on July 09, 2007, 01:35:55 PM
I agree Martyn, Sarah Bradford is one walloping, huge SNOB.    To see her is bad enough to hear and see her is cringemaking.

Now, that doesn't preclude her undoubted ability as a biographer.   When I read her biography of the late Diana, Princess of Wales, I thought her work was much better than anything I had previously read about the life of Diana.   In fact it was eons ahead of anything else.   

Some months later Tina Brown - a journalist worthy of every bit as much respect as Sarah Bradford does as a biographer - publishes a book on the same subject.   Perhaps the clash of timings has been unfortunate, but there is a market for both styles.     It is possible to enjoy both books - for altogether different reasons... and for the same.

However, it is Sarah Bradford who has publicly berated and insulted Tina Brown's work.   What use being an excellent biographer and have no sense of judgement, no modesty or humility?   Is it sour grapes?   Is it green cheese?   Is it jealousy that Tina Brown's book has soared ahead of Sarah Bradford's in the best-selling book lists, with all the economic implications which accompany that?

Sarah Bradford's outburst has certainly coloured my previous high regard and respect for her work on the life of Diana - fact, for her work in general.

tsaria     
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: Eddie_uk on July 09, 2007, 02:39:55 PM
Not to get of topic but if anyone is not familiar with Sarah Bradfords "Americas Queen" a biography of Jackie O it's well worth it! :)
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: grandduchessella on July 09, 2007, 04:55:15 PM
Chris Matthews is talking to Tina Brown right now on Hardball (on MSNBC) about the book. Chris should really stay away from royal topics though because he's making some bone-headed gaffes as I'm typing--thank God for DVRs--regarding their 'real' German name. He's talking about how only 'horse-faced Duchesses' should marry into the family (forgetting that most women only become Duchesses through marriage, there aren't a large-number who have the title in their own right ala the Duchess of Fife) rather than beautiful women like Diana and now, it seems, Kate Middleton. (He has her and William practically engaged.) This is because if you're beautiful, like Diana, you become a cover girl and the Windsors (who are historically chinless, which is why they needed to marry a beauty like Diana--Tina Brown concurred with this) start to hate them. Tina also said that she brought height, since the Windsors are rather 'dwarfish' according to Tina, which is true to a good extent but so did Prince Philip. None of Elizabeth's sons are as short as previous generations though William & Harry have a few inches on them. She did call al-Fayed's conspiracy story the 'great fairy tale' he keeps peddling though she thinks he's 'hypnotized himself' into believing it. She says it's absolutely false based on all the sloppiness surrounding it (the timeline, etc) to have been planned. Chris complimented her on the lack of photos as well and Tina said she tried to put the story in the context of the time.
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: TampaBay on July 09, 2007, 05:21:39 PM
I find this all pretty sick.  The Royals for the most part try and do their jobs.  Looks has nothing to do with it.  Camilla is an attractive woman in her 60's!  When she is in her 80's are they going to compare her to a 36 year old Diana?? End of Story.

I am surprise he did not bring up Sarah because commentators love to talk about her and dig up things she did 12 years ago. 

If I see one more reboardcast of the Diana interview with Martin what's his name, I think I may throw up.

I for one see value and merits of constitutional monarchy as a form of democratic government.  The Windsors are performing their constitutional roles to the best of their abilty and doing a fine job in my opinion.

TampaBay
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: ChristineM on July 09, 2007, 06:00:33 PM
Tampa, you are right, of course, but I'm afraid 'appearances' reflect the times in which we live and although I agree it is utterly shallow and shameful, how someone appears is at least as - in fact probably more - important than what they really are.   

Like it or not, certainly in public life, being good looking and well presented is paramount these days.   Hasn't Princess Anne, the Princess Royal frequently come in for some criticism around these parts - on both counts.

tsaria
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 09, 2007, 07:49:31 PM
I think you are right abot Sarah Bradford being jealous of the mass aqppeal aproach Tina Brown on Diana. She smartly knew a lot of people considered Diana in their own way and reached into the collective memory. Not for nothing that she turned failed magazines around. This work demonstated it perfectly.  ;)
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: NAAOTMA on July 09, 2007, 07:56:37 PM
Regardless of one's opinion about the content of Sarah Bradford's book on the late Princess of Wales versus that of Tina Brown's book on the late Princess of Wales, they do differ markedly in one thing: Tina Brown in the forward of her own book says gracious words in regards to Sarah Bradford's book on Diana. She did not need to say anything at all, but she chose the high road.
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 09, 2007, 07:59:33 PM
Yes...That is what I call "a class act".  ;)
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: ChristineM on July 10, 2007, 04:07:41 AM
... and you know the irony - its Sarah Bradford who believes she is the one with class!

Thank you NAAOTMA for highlighting Tina Brown's appreciation of Sarah Bradford's work.   You are right, she has taken the high road - a road which is reaping rewards.

tsaria
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 10, 2007, 04:19:54 AM
Thinking and really doing it with class is 2 different things. Sarah thought she had class maybe because she had a title perhaps ? But hard to remain above it all...jealousy does sets in even between rival authors.  ;)
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Arleen on September 07, 2007, 07:02:28 PM
I have just finished reading Greg Kings new book on Queen Victoria and I think it is a marvelous read. 

Greg is the only writer today who seems to include ALL of the little details that I want so much to know about.  He always answers all of my questions and everything just comes to life.  I adore his books, I collect them all.

Bravo Greg! 

Arleen
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Teddy on September 08, 2007, 01:48:09 AM
I heard awhile ago, that the books of Greg King, are full of little mistakes. So I started re-reading his books about Alexandra. And certainly there were some mistakes about some persons, dates etc etc. My fullest respect to mr. King, but I think he must write more respect on his subjects. Its disturbing, that another person on this forum had to tell me, about the many mistakes and the bad recearch. Ok, most in his books, are good, but maybe its better that some of his books, would be re-published without the many mistakes.

I wait to buy this book, to see the revieuw of some other high respected forum members.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Eddie_uk on September 08, 2007, 02:32:39 AM
Teddy - I highly recommend it!!! I really enjoyed it. Then again I am a big fan of QV and her children and love to read anything new.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: dmitri on September 08, 2007, 07:40:35 AM
Diamond Jubilees are 60 years.

As for Greg's latest book I have seen it and sadly cannot recommend it. A far better book on the Diamond Jubilee and other matters concerning Queen Victoria's court is "Insubstantial Pageant" by Jeffrey L. Lant - published by Hamish Hamilton, London, 1979. It is worth noting the careless photo on the dust jacket of Greg's book which depicts Tuxen's painting from Queen Victoria's Golden Jubilee of 1887 and not the Diamond Jubilee of 1879 which the book is supposed to be dealing with. Also the interior photos are not a good choice. I am sadly most disappointed.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Arleen on September 10, 2007, 02:05:50 PM
If you had taken the time to READ it, instead of just SEEN it Dmiti you might have actually liked it. 

The book is about a WHOLE year in Victoria's life and just happens to include the Diamond Jubilee.....the most wonderful part of the book is all of the intimate details of her entire life for that year, 1897.

I feel sorry for people who nit pick everything to death.  I am a lover of Edvard Radzinsky books ESPECIALLY for the "playwrite style" he uses....its refreshingly origional, and sometimes that is a good and entertaining thing. Tho he gets bashed to death here on the AP.  His bloopers can easily be spotted and do nothing to ruin the books for me.

It takes all kinds in this world you know.....

Arleen 

Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Robert_Hall on September 10, 2007, 02:20:17 PM
Tnakks, Arlee. I have it here in the "to be read" stack, righr below the weighty tomes "The Last Mughal" [about the Brish destruction of the Delhi dynasty- a very laborious read] and "the King Never Smiles" [ a book on the King of Thailand. Even though Queen Victoria is not one of my favourite subjects, I like Greg's writing style and his research is thorough.  He most likely had no choice in the cover art though.
 And, I also enjoy Radzinsky. His own style is unique and very readable.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Teddy on September 10, 2007, 02:40:56 PM
Arleen,

Not every book is good. I thought that in the book about the Empress Alexandra by Greg King, Greg King mentioned that Alix went to the wedding of Georgie and Mary of Teck (1893). But Alix didnt' went to this wedding, because she was at the home of Marie of Erbach-Schonberg (you can read it in her book, Remincances (sic) a first hand account). This is a very big mistake Arleen. And so are there many many stupid mistakes in his books.

And I understand the point Dmitri want to tell us: he wanted to tell us that the book is about a specific year and instead to use a painting/photo of that specific year, he used the wrong year.

Not every writer is as good as he/she thinks he is. On this board there is a "writer" who thinks he/she is a writer and the only thing this writer does, is writing a new foreword in a book, who others have written years ago.

Gr. Teddy
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Helen_Azar on September 10, 2007, 03:16:51 PM
I feel sorry for people who nit pick everything to death.  I am a lover of Edvard Radzinsky books ESPECIALLY for the "playwrite style" he uses....its refreshingly origional, and sometimes that is a good and entertaining thing.

I guess it depends on the purpose of why you are reading something: for information value or for entertainment value. I think Radzinsky is a good read for entertainment purposes, but I am not so sure if I would trust his information. Same goes for King, IMO and some others. Some other authors can be really reliable with their information, but have a very dry style. I think what makes a good author is when they can be equally good with both.

But "entertaining" and "well-written" does not equal "reliable" or "scholarly", and vice versa...
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: RichC on September 10, 2007, 04:29:28 PM
Tnakks, Arlee. I have it here in the "to be read" stack, righr below the weighty tomes "The Last Mughal" [about the Brish destruction of the Delhi dynasty- a very laborious read] and "the King Never Smiles" [ a book on the King of Thailand. Even though Queen Victoria is not one of my favourite subjects, I like Greg's writing style and his research is thorough.  He most likely had no choice in the cover art though.
 And, I also enjoy Radzinsky. His own style is unique and very readable.

That's right that the cover art is up to the publisher.  Does anyone know if the cover art is actually a mistake?  Or did they knowingly use the painting from the Golden Jubilee on purpose because they thought it just looked better?   They might have felt that the look of the painting overrode the fact that it actually commemorated an earlier Jubilee. 
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Helen_Azar on September 10, 2007, 04:53:58 PM
That's right that the cover art is up to the publisher. 

Does the author get to have any kind of say, particularly in cases when the illustrations may be blatantly wrong for the book, or misidentified, etc.?
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Robert_Hall on September 10, 2007, 05:13:52 PM
In my experience with some published authors, they never even saw the dust cover until it hit the shelves! It is strictly a marketing technique, I think.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: koloagirl on September 10, 2007, 05:40:42 PM

Aloha all!

I think if I remember a posting from an earlier thread on "Rasputin's Daughter" in which the author said that he had absolutely no control over the picture that the publisher used for the front (which showed a well known picture of GD Tatiana).

I think this is pretty common unfortunately -- it seems the the marketability of a book is primary and as such the picture has to be a "grabber" in some way.

Janet R.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Grace on September 10, 2007, 06:14:15 PM
Arleen,

Not every book is good. I thought that in the book about the Empress Alexandra by Greg King, Greg King mentioned that Alix went to the wedding of Georgie and Mary of Teck (1893). But Alix didnt' went to this wedding, because she was at the home of Marie of Erbach-Schonberg (you can read it in her book, Remincances (sic) a first hand account). This is a very big mistake Arleen. And so are there many many stupid mistakes in his books.

And I understand the point Dmitri want to tell us: he wanted to tell us that the book is about a specific year and instead to use a painting/photo of that specific year, he used the wrong year.

Not every writer is as good as he/she thinks he is. On this board there is a "writer" who thinks he/she is a writer and the only thing this writer does, is writing a new foreword in a book, who others have written years ago.

Gr. Teddy

In my experience, there is no such thing as a book of this type being 100% flawless in detail.  None.  Reporting that Alix of Hesse was at the 1893 wedding of George of York and May of Teck is a definite error but not a hugely significant one.  It is not an error which makes one judge the character concerned as better or worse than they really were, unlike many books out there which perpetuate rumours and falsehoods about certain royal personages simply by quoting the work of previous authors who have not researched thoroughly enough.  This is sloppy and completely misleading, in my opinion.

I rejected this book initially because I noted that the cover was the Tuxen portrait commemorating the Golden Jubilee, not the Diamond one which the book is about but I later bought it and I love it!
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: dmitri on September 11, 2007, 12:51:37 AM
By the way I did read the book and I stand by my comments. I believe Greg's book is sadly a very disappointing work. ''Insubstantial Pageant" is a far better. It is well worth reading.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: RichC on September 11, 2007, 01:40:55 AM
Count me among those who think that a few factual errors don't necessarily mean throwing the baby out with the bathwater.  I remember that when I first read Nicholas and Alexandra by Massie that I thought Empress Alexandra was the "youngest" granddaughter of Queen Victoria (until I read otherwise).  Aside from that mistake, N & A is definitely a classic.

I will try to check out both books -- King's book, and the Insubstantial Pageant as well!

Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Helen_Azar on September 12, 2007, 02:45:59 PM
I believe that what it comes down to is the type of errors they are. Some errors can be benign, others a lot more serious. Generally speaking, depending on the reader's "agenda" (for the lack of a better term) and the tolerance for errors, depending on the purpose for which the information is used, a few errors may not matter very much at all, or they may "make or break" the book, or - for that matter - the author.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: LisaDavidson on September 12, 2007, 08:18:43 PM
As a writer of articles, and not books, I can tell you that all the history writers I know, including Greg King, try very hard to get the facts right and we all make mistakes. That said, I think there are some who have a capacity for nit-picking as opposed to doing a critical analysis. Marlene Koenig is very good at critical analysis, and she says, it's a good book.

Some of the harshest criticisms (or nit-picking) comes from those who do not write and have no idea (perhaps) how hard writing is to do, and good writing is harder still. I agree with Helen that really good writing should be both entertaining and accurate. I find Radzinsky misleading at times (and I am not a nit-picker), but I also find him insightful at times, too. Few of us are 100% one way or the other. For example, I found Radzinsky's Rasputin book much more factual than his Nicholas II book. Greg King has written enough history that his books are generally well received and sell decently. Does he make mistakes? Sure he does. But, so does Bob Massie.

What I find troublesome on this thread is that there are members who feel they have to "warn" other members that Greg makes mistakes. There is more than a little mean spiritedness there, and at times, some ignorance behind these "warnings". If you're going to warn others about mistakes, best warn every one about every history book to be fair about it - because nearly all contain errors.

Just my two kopeks!
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Teddy on September 13, 2007, 12:38:48 AM
I've heard that a Royal writer, who has written many books, only does that, without love for the subject(s) were he writes about. This particular writer, writes on order. His company tells him, about which subject he can write about, put the story line on paper in big lines, and he writes some of the details.

And there is nothing wrong, to tell others the mistakes in someone his/her book. If a writer writes that the Imperial Family had 3 daughters instead of 4 or that Rasputin had sexual contact with the GD, or that Nicholas and Alix held constantly magnificant balls, then you must tell others of the mistakes. Otherwise it with live their own life.

Not every Royal writer is a "writer". On this board there is someone iwho thinks he is a writer. But only what he can do is writing a new foreword, why he became so interested in Royalty. The next moment he is publishing a book.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Grace on September 13, 2007, 01:03:44 AM
I've heard that a Royal writer, who has written many books, only does that, without love for the subject(s) were he writes about. This particular writer, writes on order. His company tells him, about which subject he can write about, put the story line on paper in big lines, and he writes some of the details.

I don't think there is anything wrong with an author writing to order, as long as they properly and carefully research what/who they're writing about.  Some of the biggest errors perpetuated have been made by so-called 'royal' writers.  Love for a particular subject does not always make for a good book, in my opinion - it can sometimes inspire bias.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Helen_Azar on September 13, 2007, 07:51:19 AM
Love for a particular subject does not always make for a good book, in my opinion - it can sometimes inspire bias.

I agree with this 100%.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: dmitri on September 13, 2007, 08:05:21 AM
Yes objectivity is required. All too often some new books are merely rehashed versions of better existing works. Sometimes they are more a money making exercise than publishing something worthwhile.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Sarushka on September 13, 2007, 08:19:09 AM
I think if I remember a posting from an earlier thread on "Rasputin's Daughter" in which the author said that he had absolutely no control over the picture that the publisher used for the front (which showed a well known picture of GD Tatiana).

I think this is pretty common unfortunately -- it seems the the marketability of a book is primary and as such the picture has to be a "grabber" in some way.

This is absolutely true. Authors only very rarely get what is called "cover approval." You can make suggestions, whine, beg, or pout, but in the end the publisher has final say. It's really not uncommon for covers to sacrifice accuracy for eye appeal.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Helen_Azar on September 13, 2007, 08:43:41 AM
Authors only very rarely get what is called "cover approval." You can make suggestions, whine, beg, or pout, but in the end the publisher has final say. It's really not uncommon for covers to sacrifice accuracy for eye appeal.

What a shame, it must be so frustrating. There is something to say for self publishing then...
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Sarushka on September 13, 2007, 09:01:13 AM
I thought that in the book about the Empress Alexandra by Greg King, Greg King mentioned that Alix went to the wedding of Georgie and Mary of Teck (1893). But Alix didnt' went to this wedding, because she was at the home of Marie of Erbach-Schonberg (you can read it in her book, Remincances (sic) a first hand account).

First hand accounts are by no means faultless. Lili Dehn made a number of errors in her recounting of the Russian revolution. For example, she states that both Anastasia and Maria went with Alexandra to speak with the guards outside the palace, even though it was actually just Maria. Matter of fact, Lili was watching from the Little Pair's bedroom *with Anastasia* while Maria and the empress were outside, and she still misremembered.

IMO before declaring that an author is mistaken, we should carefully consider the conflicting sources AND seek out additional sources if at all possible.

I know nothing about Marie of Erbach-Schonberg, but I try to will find out what King's source was for that info so we can have a two-sided discussion.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Sarushka on September 13, 2007, 09:08:39 AM
Authors only very rarely get what is called "cover approval." You can make suggestions, whine, beg, or pout, but in the end the publisher has final say. It's really not uncommon for covers to sacrifice accuracy for eye appeal.

What a shame, it must be so frustrating.

Well, many publishers are sensitive to the author's concerns but they do have ultimate veto power.


Quote
There is something to say for self publishing then...

*shudders* IMO, self-publishing is a bottomless money pit, mostly because the quality of self-published work rarely measures up to professional publishers' output. My biggest gripe by far is the lack of editing, but the design and presentation are also noticably substandard in most self-published works. There is also little or no professional marketing, all of which combines to essentially doom a book to an agonizing death.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: dmitri on September 13, 2007, 09:34:42 AM
I guess it is most definitely a case of "Buyer beware"!!
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Helen_Azar on September 13, 2007, 09:57:23 AM

*shudders* IMO, self-publishing is a bottomless money pit, mostly because the quality of self-published work rarely measures up to professional publishers' output. My biggest gripe by far is the lack of editing, but the design and presentation are also noticably substandard in most self-published works. There is also little or no professional marketing, all of which combines to essentially doom a book to an agonizing death.

I know someone who seems to have done quite well with self publishing (non-Romanov related) and is even making royalty checks some years later... Maybe he is the exception. Of course I would not attempt it myself unless my work was hopelessly desecrated by the publisher and I was still REALLY determined to publish it. But I am really not that determined to publish anything, so I would probably pass.

In any case, we digress, sorry.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: dmitri on September 13, 2007, 12:30:55 PM
some authors self publish and find a market .. it depends on the demand for what they write .. certainly they have more control and can avoid being compromised .. usually an author receives very little for their work and the publisher takes the lion's share as well as the retailer ... some writers self publish as they believe they should obtain the maximum income from their efforts and not a publisher .. it all depends on what it being published ... many publishers will not take a risk on anything new of course
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Teddy on September 13, 2007, 02:32:33 PM
Its just an opinion of me, but I think that an writer who writes out of love of his subject(s), such as ms. Croft or ms Miller, has less painfull errors, then those who publish by order for his/her publisher.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: dmitri on September 14, 2007, 02:43:05 AM
well some write as if they were working in a factory ..
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Sarushka on September 14, 2007, 08:18:36 AM
I know nothing about Marie of Erbach-Schonberg, but I try to will find out what King's source was for that info so we can have a two-sided discussion.

I've spoken with Greg and he's confirmed that he was indeed mistaken about George V & Mary's wedding. His best recollection was that the incorrect information came from Radziwell or Poliakov.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: dmitri on September 14, 2007, 09:22:35 AM
I guess sources need to be checked carefully.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Ilana on September 14, 2007, 12:06:11 PM
It's very interesting because I also had an issue about whether Alix went to GV and Mary's wedding.  I looked around in newspaper articles, asked Greg and several other people and at one point was sure that she had...however, after some other things came to light, I decided, nope....
Title: What books on Diana Spencer would you recommend?
Post by: Lolita on September 19, 2007, 02:26:30 PM
I`ve been bitten by the Diana bug for some time and i`m just wondering what good books I can find on her.
Title: Re: What books on Diana Spencer would you recommend?
Post by: Helen_Azar on September 19, 2007, 02:48:14 PM
I`ve been bitten by the Diana bug for some time and i`m just wondering what good books I can find on her.

The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown is pretty good.
Title: Re: What books on Diana Spencer would you recommend?
Post by: Grace on September 19, 2007, 03:37:39 PM
I agree with Helen A.  Also, you can't go wrong with any Sarah Bradford book on royalty - Diana included.
Title: Re: What books on Diana Spencer would you recommend?
Post by: Kimberly on September 19, 2007, 03:38:40 PM
As is Sarah Bradford's bio. Get both then you can compare and contrast... we have discussed both of them extensively on the forum.
Grace, we posted together....its the "grumpy old women" vibes........
Title: Re: What books on Diana Spencer would you recommend?
Post by: Grace on September 19, 2007, 03:39:30 PM
Great minds think alike!
Title: Re: What books on Diana Spencer would you recommend?
Post by: dmitri on September 19, 2007, 04:56:36 PM
Sarah Bradford's book is definitely the one to read. Brown's is tabloid trash.
Title: Re: What books on Diana Spencer would you recommend?
Post by: Mari on September 20, 2007, 12:38:56 AM
store
http://store.aetv.com/html/search/searchindex.jhtml?search=Princess+Diana&itemType=All&x=10&y=14&key=||Princess%20Diana||&_requestid=843817

This link is from the A&E store on line with DVD's.  In the Beginning I read Andrew Morton's book and a couple of others but I can highly recommend listening to original tapes  also if you can find them.  Its nice to have Diana and others that you can hear tell events and cover the years. Primary Material so to speak!   In the last tapes I saw..... Diana was working with her Dialogue Coach and they show a really funny natural caring Human Being. William and Harry entered in the middle of it and it was her Mom side that came out.  It was touching.
Title: Re: What books on Diana Spencer would you recommend?
Post by: TampaBay on September 20, 2007, 07:06:30 AM
Sarah Bradford's book is definitely the one to read. Brown's is tabloid trash.

If you enjoy "Tabloid Trash" then Lady Colin Campbell's three books are a cut above the average.

I enjoyed all three.

TampaBay
Title: Re: What books on Diana Spencer would you recommend?
Post by: Martyn on September 21, 2007, 07:43:51 AM
I'm with Grace and Kim on this.

You can't go wrong with Bradford and Brown, despite dmitri's disparaging remarks about the latter.  The two very differing styles and approaches to the same subject will make for interesting reading................
Title: Re: What books on Diana Spencer would you recommend?
Post by: Helen_Azar on September 21, 2007, 07:56:33 AM
I can highly recommend listening to original tapes  also if you can find them.  Its nice to have Diana and others that you can hear tell events and cover the years. Primary Material so to speak!   In the last tapes I saw..... Diana was working with her Dialogue Coach and they show a really funny natural caring Human Being. William and Harry entered in the middle of it and it was her Mom side that came out.  It was touching.

Where would one find these original tapes???
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Belochka on September 21, 2007, 09:58:16 PM
Its just an opinion of me, but I think that an writer who writes out of love of his subject(s), such as ms. Croft or ms Miller, has less painfull errors, then those who publish by order for his/her publisher.


I completely agree with this statement. It is better to be known for one excellent well researched book rather than a string of annual pubications based on Royalty themes which are loaded with errors, questionable interpretation and supplemented with less than innovative speculation.

Margarita
Title: Re: What books on Diana Spencer would you recommend?
Post by: Mari on September 22, 2007, 01:25:24 AM
The A&E Web site has some things for sale that  contain tapes within it according to what I was told and Interviews.... but I also found this which looks really interesting and it contains free clips it looks like.  video.tvguide.com/Search/Princess%20Diana
and this is the TV guide site which has an add to clip collector!

These are some  of the tapes shown on TV that I watched....along with others over the years....
Quote
In a worldwide exclusive, NBC News presents "Diana Revealed," a special report on Princess Diana featuring an extraordinary never-before-seen videotape of the Princess speaking frankly, casually, and openly about her life.  In all, Settelen says he made 20 tapes over the course of a year. NBC News recently acquired several of those tapes, and is now broadcasting them for the first time.  The video camera belonged to Peter Settelen, a former actor who had developed a thriving business as a voice coach.  They met through a mutual friend. Settelen says in their first meeting, Diana came across as a frightened woman, shell-shocked by a bad marriage and worse publicity. He told her improving her public speaking skills could be a therapy of sorts and a way for a soon-to-be-divorced woman to show her husband and the world that she wasn't frightened, but strong and independent. Settelen told her he could help her find that strength.
Quote
Title: Re: What books on Diana Spencer would you recommend?
Post by: Grace on September 22, 2007, 02:54:40 AM
I don't know what to think about the 'Settelen tapes' really -- Diana didn't know when she spoke so frankly to Peter Settelen about personal aspects of her life (which was a mistake in itself) that he would later breach her trust and release them publicly.  It seems something of a betrayal to listen to them somehow.  Also, even though what she said in them can't be disputed, Diana was never at her best talking disparagingly about Charles and the royal family -- she knew that herself.   
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Ilana on September 22, 2007, 11:20:04 AM
...well, it would actually be my second book, the other written about the American Civil War.  However, I can only hope that people will enjoy it, and more importantly, that I have done the research to the best of my ability and judge me accordingly.  If they don't, I'll have to grow another skin. :):)
Title: Re: What books on Diana Spencer would you recommend?
Post by: dmitri on September 22, 2007, 04:41:26 PM
Well the Panorama interview was very revealing and pretty accurate. I'm glad she did that one.
Title: Re: What books on Diana Spencer would you recommend?
Post by: Mari on September 23, 2007, 03:26:45 AM
 I found the Settlen tapes good of Diana also....She's warm and relaxed ....at one point Prince William and Harry break into the room as kids will do and it shows the Mom side of her! There's one day She's tired and yawning and apologizing/half laughing...its just a really good tape of Diana's likeability factor. Of course these aren't the only set of tapes, there are others too worth seeing. As Dimitri said the Panorama interview was very good and explains a lot about the Marriage.
www.bbc.co.uk/politics97/diana/panorama.html   Transcript
Title: Re: What books on Diana Spencer would you recommend?
Post by: dmitri on September 24, 2007, 12:53:26 PM
Yes the Panorama interview is incredible material. You realise what an enormous loss for the monarchy it was when Diana died.
Title: Re: What books on Diana Spencer would you recommend?
Post by: imperial angel on September 24, 2007, 04:15:36 PM
There are so many! I think the suggestions people have given you so far are good. You really have to read Andrew Morton's 1992 book, because that is essential to the subject. My own favorite books about her I can't remember the full titles/ authors off the top of my head, but I will go see and then post them. It depends on what you are looking for, what books would be good ones. Some are about different aspects of her life, after all.
Title: Re: What books on Diana Spencer would you recommend?
Post by: Grace on September 24, 2007, 04:34:18 PM
I'd leave Morton's book on the shelf personally.  Diana cooperated with Morton at a desperately low point in her life and later had sincere regrets about the book's publication.  I don't think her true nature and motives showed through here.

I'd stick to the ones recommended early on in the the thread - Brown and Bradford - and forget about any from her so-called 'friends', health gurus, speech coaches and the like.  I wouldn't even bother with the Jephson and Wharfe ones now either...
Title: Re: What books on Diana Spencer would you recommend?
Post by: imperial angel on September 24, 2007, 04:53:20 PM
The Morton one I just mentioned not because it is totally accurate, or unbiased, and yes I agree with what you said about it, but just because every biography of Princess Diana is forever going to mention it. If you haven't read it, and don't understand it, then you will never know what the other biographies are talking about, when they mention it. It is important to understand it isn't unbiased, but I think you have to read it and know before you really get into Princess Diana, because then you will understand the book that undid her marriage, the event that really helped her to end one phase of her life as a fairy tale Princess. It may be of a time, and a place, with regards to what it aimed to accomplish, and the interpretation of events put forth there, but its impact was so much more than what the book was, or what was in it. I think you are right about so called friends books, and Jephson and Wharfe, etc. It's hard not to be biased when you knew someone, however well or not.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: LisaDavidson on September 24, 2007, 05:34:14 PM
I guess sources need to be checked carefully.

Of course they need to be checked. However, even checking sources, as has been pointed out, does not necessarily mean that your work will be error free, because somethimes the sources are themselves in error about a point of fact. Good history writing means footnotes and sources. No need to shudder, people - and no need to fly into a tizzy if a historian makes a mistake. Foot notes and sourcing means that a person can do their own checking on any point they may wish - and even publish their own findings and research.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Alixz on September 24, 2007, 10:05:53 PM
And we can't always blame the writer. 

Type setters and proof readers who often don't know a thing about the subject can also let in mistakes or let mistakes slide.

I was just going over where Nicholas was on May 31, 1891.  I chose Massie only because I can always find what I want without too much trouble.  However,  Massie states that Nicholas left on a nine month far east tour in October of 1890.  We know that the tour was cut short because of the Otsu incident.  However the book states that on his way home, Nicholas laid the corner stone of the Vladivostok terminus on May 31, 1892!! (at least in my copy)

From October 1890 to May 1982, is not only more than nine months, but it is no trip cut short.

The error is that he laid the corner stone on May 31, 1891 - not 1892.  Now who's error is that.  Massie's, the publisher's, the typesetter's or the proof reader's?  I would go with the type setter and the fact that the proof reader was only checking for spelling errors, not factual errors.

Big factual errors or misinterpretation of source information is different from minor errors.

Massie also doesn't even mention that Nicholas had a brother Alexander who died in infancy.  A lot of authors don't mention this and some who do put Alexander as the first born.  They are sort of trying to draw a parallel between Nixa and Alexander III and Eddie and George V and if Alexander was born first then it would be Alexander and Nicholas II.  Three different generations all with the first born dieing and the second son inheriting.  Makes for nice fiction, but only two are true.

And then there is the case of Guy Richards The Hunt for the Czar.  All of that is now known to be fiction, but when it was published it was considered the definitive answer to the Romanov mystery.  So who takes the blame for that kind of mixed up mess?

I don't blame the author for everything.  That is what they have agents and proof readers for.  And, sometimes these things just get by.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Belochka on September 24, 2007, 11:13:27 PM
I guess sources need to be checked carefully.

Of course they need to be checked. However, even checking sources, as has been pointed out, does not necessarily mean that your work will be error free, because somethimes the sources are themselves in error about a point of fact.

Quite true Lisa,

Yet how many English language editors check foreign language sources? Do the editors really bother to identify the flawed translations or misinterpretations on the part of the author? I somehow doubt this happens with much rigor.

Margarita  
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: LisaDavidson on September 26, 2007, 12:50:00 PM
I guess sources need to be checked carefully.

Of course they need to be checked. However, even checking sources, as has been pointed out, does not necessarily mean that your work will be error free, because somethimes the sources are themselves in error about a point of fact.

Quite true Lisa,

Yet how many English language editors check foreign language sources? Do the editors really bother to identify the flawed translations or misinterpretations on the part of the author? I somehow doubt this happens with much rigor.

Margarita  

I really have no idea. I do know that even finding a publisher for royal books in the US - outside of ERHJ - is next to impossible - because these books do not make money. So, I doubt editors have the time to do much source verification and may lack the expertise in different languages.

The authors I know always say something to the effect that they did all the checking they could and the errors are all theirs. That said, the rest of my post clearly said and which was not quoted, you will not find an error free history book as everyone makes mistakes, but providing sources does afford one the opportunity to do their own checking and to publish their own research.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Helen_Azar on September 26, 2007, 12:53:28 PM
How about when the original sources are manipulated to take on a different meaning altogether?
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: dmitri on September 26, 2007, 10:59:29 PM
Well I guess like you Helen_A I believe there is a great deal of difference between a minor typographical error, careless research (one wonders how this is possible on a regular basis if a person claims to be a credible professional writer/researcher) and a deliberate attempt to misinterpret existing information leading to academic fraud. Works that claim to be factual and are in fact deliberate fiction are totally unacceptable.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Sarushka on September 26, 2007, 11:06:14 PM
Yet how many English language editors check foreign language sources? Do the editors really bother to identify the flawed translations or misinterpretations on the part of the author? I somehow doubt this happens with much rigor.

IMO, checking foreign language sources and verifying translations is the author's responsibility, not the editor's.


How about when the original sources are manipulated to take on a different meaning altogether?

If an editor has reason to believe an author's research can't be trusted, they probably shouldn't be publishing that person's work in the first place.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: dmitri on September 27, 2007, 12:11:03 AM
In many cases an editor has no idea of the subject matter. They simply check language structure, typographical errors through proof reading and also layout. It's a business and not a field in some cases dedicated to producing credible material. It's all about making money, in some cases now, and able to spin out of control preying on the gullible. Sadly many don't even have a basic education. Therefore they can be very easily hoodwinked. I guess in the old days an author who wrote deliberate rubbish would have been called a con artist or their work would never have been published.   
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Mari on September 27, 2007, 12:42:54 AM
I agree with Lisa! Writing a Book is a lot harder and keeping the Material free of mistakes than it looks. I not only have tried to write...I have tried to edit a Friends's work that She self published. First keep in mind you have to spend hours at Archives and reading and contacting and listening to Oral history sources. Then you do a first draft and a second one and then a third one to keep polishing it. I learned when I had to write a thesis and several other works (my magnum opus) that you look at it so much that you begin not to see errors.  Further in Graduate School you are trained to take a new slant on history to be biased to defend it. That's how Morgan got his Neo-Conservative Books written on the American Revolution. When an Author comes out with his new slant it is always criticized to the Max or Jamieson when he published in the 20's and 30's on the Socio-Economic slant.
To hire an Editor unless a Publishing Firm takes you on is expensive...several hundred dollars per reading. You can enter your work for several years and still not get published unless you spend a lot of money, join writing organizations, go to huge conferences and badger Editors. You take a lot of (rejections).. now here I'm using the experience of three women in a writing organization that I used to belong to. They finally got published but had to go into Fiction to do it. The Friend that self published spent $10,000 up front. She then begged Radio stations, TV stations, Newspapers, and worked Booths at the Fair, the Arts Alive festival and anything that came along to sell those Books. I worked a lot of that stuff with her to help her and because I had considered this as a last alternative. Right now I'm still writing but I don't see very many History's being published in the States and so unless I come up with a radical slant I will not be published.

I was fortunate that my first Museum Job wrote a weekly History Newspaper Article and I published Articles in a Journal. So, at least I knew a little bit abut the praise and criticism that comes with the territory.  And I can tell you the criticism is tremendous.. all from People who think they could do a better job and they have never written. I used to have People come to the Museum to run down this Friends work to me which by the way was a work that was never even seen Nationally at least so far.  I don't cover the fights She had with the type setters and proof readers who changed things constantly. Just my little bit of experience and probably not near as much as some of you. ;)   
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Belochka on September 27, 2007, 07:01:54 AM
Yet how many English language editors check foreign language sources? Do the editors really bother to identify the flawed translations or misinterpretations on the part of the author? I somehow doubt this happens with much rigor.

IMO, checking foreign language sources and verifying translations is the author's responsibility, not the editor's.


How about when the original sources are manipulated to take on a different meaning altogether?

If an editor has reason to believe an author's research can't be trusted, they probably shouldn't be publishing that person's work in the first place.

Then it becomes rather unfortunate where an editor may not even be aware that an author's use or interpretation of certain material is deemed suspect or open to question by their readers.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Janet Ashton on October 04, 2007, 06:22:05 AM

That's right that the cover art is up to the publisher.  Does anyone know if the cover art is actually a mistake?  Or did they knowingly use the painting from the Golden Jubilee on purpose because they thought it just looked better?   They might have felt that the look of the painting overrode the fact that it actually commemorated an earlier Jubilee. 


It was chosen on purpose, by the author, for its visual appeal in giving an image of Queen Victoria's court and family in the latter part of her reign. It is not an error; he knows and presumably the publisher knows when it was painted, and he was not unaware that this choice was likely to be criticised. Or unduly worried.... :D It's just a cover....
 
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: dmitri on October 04, 2007, 08:09:26 AM
Yes a very poorly designed cover considering there were better images available from the diamond jubilee .. after all that is what the book claims to be about! The inside photos are just as careless.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Janet Ashton on October 04, 2007, 08:33:44 AM
The inside photos are just as careless.

Ah well, at least one of them is mine, so cheers dude... ;D
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Janet Ashton on October 04, 2007, 08:45:22 AM
I've heard that a Royal writer, who has written many books, only does that, without love for the subject(s) were he writes about. This particular writer, writes on order. His company tells him, about which subject he can write about, put the story line on paper in big lines, and he writes some of the details.


Well, I don't know who you are talking about and wouldn't presume to read your mind or anything, but for the sake of clarity in this thread I should point out that this is not the case with Greg King. Certainly "Twilight of splendor" was commissioned by Wiley as a follow-up to the Russian court book, but Greg has been researching the court of  Queen Victoria since he was a kid - his main focus being arcitectural, actually - he once said to me that his favourite character was Osborne House. So it's the solid background of years of research which enables him to complete a book in a year or so. Same with his current book on the court of Caroline Astor - that draws on material which he laid down years ago in working on different projects. I have been beside him through the writing of both court books as well as the manuscript stage of FOTR and I have seen them progress from chapter outline and proposal (his own) to finished work. The publisher may object and suggest changes to overall focus, but the "storyline" and structure is the author's.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Janet Ashton on October 04, 2007, 08:59:13 AM
I guess sources need to be checked carefully.

Of course they need to be checked. However, even checking sources, as has been pointed out, does not necessarily mean that your work will be error free, because somethimes the sources are themselves in error about a point of fact. Good history writing means footnotes and sources. No need to shudder, people - and no need to fly into a tizzy if a historian makes a mistake. Foot notes and sourcing means that a person can do their own checking on any point they may wish - and even publish their own findings and research.

Since I'm on a roll here, I just want to add a few personal observations about Greg's book on Alix, started when he was thirteen years old and first published when he was twenty five. I don't think it's a perfect book, and there are some minor errors, many of which he subsequently became aware of. (I should add that I perpetuate one small error in an article of mine by deriving information on her reading via Greg from the Mouchanow book; I didn't know that Mouchanow was a dubious source when I wrote the article either and I'm happy to admit to it.)
BUT....hum...just my personal thoughts since I too started writing about Alexandra when I was thirteen, with less ultimate success: I do not believe that *I* could have produced a book of such thought and insight at that age: mine would have been an uncritical hagiography; and in fact it might well have been had I written it at *33* when I rediscovered my interest in Russian history (see my ATR posts from 2001-2 for examples of what I mean).
We all live and learn.....
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Vecchiolarry on October 04, 2007, 10:24:14 AM
Hi Janet,

Thanks for those postings here - - most interesting!!!!

And, you are right, we are all only human and make mistakes and best to just admit them and get on with it.
Keep learning and progressing.  My grandmother often said that once we learn everything and are supposedly 'perfect', then we might as well be dead, since there is nothing more to attain!!....

Larry
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Robert_Hall on October 04, 2007, 11:58:07 AM
I think it quite unfair to critcise any author for the  choice of illustrations in their books. Unless the author has personal access to them,  the decisions it up to what the publisher is willing to pay for the rights to use them.
 Of course, if the book is privately [vanity press] printed by the author, it is entirely his or her judgement and budget.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: LisaDavidson on October 04, 2007, 03:20:14 PM
Yes a very poorly designed cover considering there were better images available from the diamond jubilee .. after all that is what the book claims to be about! The inside photos are just as careless.

You know, Dmitri, I find your remarks to be mean spirited and unsupported. Do you want to cite an example of what you consider to be "careless"?
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Arleen on October 07, 2007, 01:17:08 PM
Love you Janet Ashton!   

Dmitri I wish you would hurry up and write a book so we could all tear your's apart like you do everyone else.

Arleen
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Eddie_uk on October 07, 2007, 02:04:42 PM
I would love to write a marvellous book called "The Austrian Archduchesses - the fascinating lives of Maria Carolina and Maria Amalia - Marie Antoinettes two intriguing sisters" by Eddieboy "....a brand new author who writes fabulously and is bound to win any award going with his fabulous way of words and accuracy for every detail etc etc" (as the Times will write).
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Arleen on October 07, 2007, 04:22:59 PM
Do it Eddie!!

A
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Eddie_uk on October 07, 2007, 04:26:51 PM
hehe. Thank you Arleen dear!! ;)
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Alixz on October 07, 2007, 06:13:49 PM
Of course I have said this many many times, but it is not always the author who is responsible for the errors.  There is the type setter (do they really set type anymore or is all computerized) and the proof reader as well as the editor.

One example I have probably given before, in Massie's Nicholas & Alexandra (every one's choice of Romanov bibles) there is any error on the date that Nicholas ended his trip to the Orient.  Massie says (correctly) that the trip began in October 1890.  But he has the laying of the corner stone in Vladivostok on May 31, 1892.  That was some long trip. 

The Transsib site states that the corner stone was laid on May 31, 1891.  That is the correct date and Nicholas returned to St. Petersburg in August of 1891.

I am sure that the error was corrected in later editions than mine, but we are not here pulling Massie apart the way we seem to be tearing other authors apart.

I actually have written a book (co authored) which has been turned down a number of times.  The publishing business is ruthless and editors only want to print books that will make money.  That is their job.

It took my friend and me two years to write the book.  It is an "historical fiction novel".  We weren't constrained by sources and facts as Greg and Mr. Massie are.  And still it took two years and that was nearly 25 years ago.  The manuscript languishes in a bottom draw.

Life got in the way of working on it any more.

As annoying as it is to read a book and find a lot of errors, it is much harder to have written that book and done all the research.  But if a "fat fingered" type setter or a "bored" proof reader don't catch all the errors, that doesn't mean that the author intended for those errors to be there. 

One last thing, I don't believe that proof readers are required to look up sources.  They are only proofing the spelling and grammar.  If they miss an error (like the date in Nicholas & Alexandra ) they would have had no way to know that it was an error.  They are not experts on Russian history only on proof reading.


Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Belochka on October 07, 2007, 07:25:08 PM
Dmitri I wish you would hurry up and write a book so we could all tear your's apart like you do everyone else.

Arleen

Your remark is most unwarranted and extremely rude.

It has always been understood that on any forum opposing views should be welcomed and encouraged. We can never all be captivated by an author in the same way as you appear to be.

Margarita
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Robert_Hall on October 07, 2007, 09:26:35 PM
I disagree,. Dmitri is often contentious, rude and disrecptful of others. He deserves  what reaction he recieves. 
On the other hand,  he has valid opinions to be posted, like the rest of us. I often disagree with his opinions,  but then, somestimes I  see his point.
We are all biased and  mind-set in one way or another, no matter how open-minded we wish to be.
 He is no more dogmatic than some others, but sometimes I wish would show more respect to others  views.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: LisaDavidson on October 07, 2007, 11:53:33 PM
Enough!

We are completely off topic and I am considering locking this one as a result.

Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: dmitri on October 31, 2007, 07:07:49 AM
Alixz don't let the book langush. You should consider self publishing. 
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Taren on November 04, 2007, 08:37:32 PM
I've recently been buying up as many books about the British royals as I can and I was wondering if anyone could help me out with some recommendations as to the best books relating to that subject. My area of interest is of Queen Victoria and her descendants, including her non-British children, great-grandchildren, etc. What are the best, non-tabloid books for me to get my hands on?
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Kimberly on November 05, 2007, 04:21:29 AM
Hi Taren, just to start you off.. Queen Victoria's Descendents by Marlene Eilers.
                                            Hessian Tapestry by David Duff.
                                            Queen Mary by James Pope-Hennessy.
                                            Queen Victoria's Children by John Van Der Kiste
                                             Queen Victoria's Family, A Century of Photographs by Charlotte Zeepvat
Cheers. Kim.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Marlene on November 05, 2007, 08:50:39 AM
And I know the author of Queen Victoria's Descendants ---  :)  She does have copies for sale ....
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Taren on November 05, 2007, 06:27:55 PM
Hi Taren, just to start you off.. Queen Victoria's Descendents by Marlene Eilers.
                                            Hessian Tapestry by David Duff.
                                            Queen Mary by James Pope-Hennessy.
                                            Queen Victoria's Children by John Van Der Kiste
                                             Queen Victoria's Family, A Century of Photographs by Charlotte Zeepvat
Cheers. Kim.

Thanks, Kim!


And I know the author of Queen Victoria's Descendants ---  :)  She does have copies for sale ....
And I know just where to get them :P and with any luck will be able to do so shortly.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Divia on November 07, 2007, 03:04:54 PM
If I am not mistaken I believe a few people read this book on Historicalfiction.org and they quite enjoyed it, which led to grumblings about why books about Victoria's children are never produced.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Silja on November 08, 2007, 02:33:02 PM
Has anyone read Anne Edward's book on Queen Mary, and is it any good?
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Marlene on November 08, 2007, 02:53:38 PM


Yes.  Read it years ago ... nothing new ... and gossipy at times.  a real disappointment
\
Has anyone read Anne Edward's book on Queen Mary, and is it any good?
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: royaltybuff on November 08, 2007, 04:33:57 PM
Grandmama of Europe  by Theo Aronson is also an excellent book on Queen Victoria's descendants who ascended to thrones throughout Europe. I believe it is out of print but I bought a used copy on Amazon. Your local library may have it as well.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Grace on November 08, 2007, 04:51:25 PM
The good biographies of Queen Victoria, such as by Elizabeth Longford or Giles St. Aubyn, are really worthwhile also as you learn so much about members of her family in the process - really interesting tidbits too. 
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Taren on November 08, 2007, 06:59:23 PM
I actually already own Aronson's Grandmama of Europe, Royal Family at War, Royal Family: Years of Transition, and Crowns in Conflict and have found them all to be extremely well written and quite humorous at times.

I also have and enjoyed both Zeepvat's Queen Victoria's Family and Prince Leopold.

Pakula's An Uncommon Woman was a little dizzying at times in relation to all of the political information, but has been extremely helpful on a few papers I've written.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Janet Ashton on November 11, 2007, 04:34:57 AM
If I am not mistaken I believe a few people read this book on Historicalfiction.org and they quite enjoyed it, which led to grumblings about why books about Victoria's children are never produced.

I took a look at the site you mention, and thought I'd just post a link here, because I find the comment by the poster named Lucy Snowe very sweet (also accurate  - e.g. "Greg King is such a star!....unlike so many in the royal-book-brigade he's not a fawning courtier-in-waiting"  :D)

http://www.historicalfiction.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2325&highlight=twilight+splendor

Should clarify that the site also covers non-fiction, of course, which is how the book came to be discussed there!
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Alixz on January 15, 2008, 10:37:12 PM
I haven't seen this book which was published in 1992 referenced here.  I like Mr. Hough's style and the book is a very easy and absorbing read.

It does cover more of Bertie's life than Alix's, but on the whole I learned a little more about Alix as Princess of Wales and the Queen of England.

I hope that someone will do a book on Alexandra and Dagmar - Danish Sisters and their adopted countries or something like that.

Anyway this book is good and, to me at least, worth reading.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: dmitri on January 16, 2008, 01:07:05 AM
There is a great deal about the two sister in the marvellous book 'A Royal Family' which accompanied the Danish television series of the same name. If you get to Copenhagen you will really love the Amalienborg Palace Museum which deals with King Christian IX and Queen Louise and their descendants. All the studies of the Danish Kings from Christian IX to Frederick IX have been meticulously recreated there. The collection is simply superb. There are beautiful paintings of all of Christian IX and Louise's children on the walls, as children. Every year there is also a different exhibition in the main display room on a topic to do with the Danish Royal Family. Kings of Denmark before Christian IX are featured in the Rosenborg Castle. The Christianborg Castle also has fabulous paintings and tapestries from Christian IX right through to Margarethe II. A real gem is to go the the Fredriksborg Castle away from Copenhagen and you can see in the Royal Castle great hall wonderful portraits of Christian IX, Queen Louise, King Edward VII, Queen Alexandra, Alexander III of Russia and Dowager Empress Maria Feodorovna as well as Margarethe II and Prince Henrik. The Chapel there also has all the shields of the crests of the Knights of the Order of the Elephant and also this was the same chapel where Princess Joachim and Princess Alexandra married. The Amalienborg Palace bookshop has wonderful books on royals. I picked up a fabulous one there on Maria Feodorovna. You can write to them. They do orders via credit card.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: dmitri on January 16, 2008, 01:08:08 AM
Hough's book is a wonderful read.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: grandduchessella on January 16, 2008, 06:25:25 PM
Georgiana Battiscombe's bio is still the one to read for Alix info, in my opinion--though Hough's is a good read.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: dmitri on January 16, 2008, 08:41:04 PM
Yes Battiscombe's is very fine.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Grace on January 16, 2008, 09:18:53 PM
David Duff's biography of Alexandra is okay too.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Alixz on January 20, 2008, 09:31:37 PM
I had some trouble finding a copy of Ms. Battiscombe's book about Queen Alexandra because her name was misspelled.

It should be Georgina Battiscombe. (not Georgiana)

However, I did finally find a lot of copies in fairly good condition for about $10 USD including s/h.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Svetabel on January 21, 2008, 12:44:36 AM
David Duff's biography of Alexandra is okay too.

Yes, quite good, though they say the Battiscombe is better. Haven't seen the Hough book, sounds interesting.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: historylover on January 26, 2008, 05:49:48 AM
There is also a book called Unpredictable Queen by Tisdall.  I haven't started any of these yet, but I will get there!
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: anna11 on January 29, 2008, 03:11:43 AM
Came across this book...http://www.amazon.com/Queen-Victorias-Gene-Pocket-Biographies/dp/0750911999/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1201597736&sr=1-1 (http://www.amazon.com/Queen-Victorias-Gene-Pocket-Biographies/dp/0750911999/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1201597736&sr=1-1)

I'd never heard of it before....looks kinda bland if you ask me. Opinions?
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Eurohistory on February 01, 2008, 08:19:36 AM
This book contains some awful mistakes.

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Luc on July 09, 2008, 04:37:55 AM
Could anyone say what the titles of the chapters are ? I've the book just ordered :)
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Luc on July 21, 2008, 10:15:54 AM
Here you can have a look-inside in the book.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/reader/0750926872/ref=sib_dp_pt

I'd like to know if there are also a lot of photos of Daisy of Connaughts family and Ena's. Does anyone know??
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Kimberly on July 21, 2008, 11:02:09 AM
Luc, there is a stunning full page photo of Daisy with Ingrid and Carl-Johan in the book.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: grandduchessella on July 21, 2008, 02:53:51 PM
I didn't find that there were a whole lot of new ones (but everyone's experience is different) but the ones that were previously unknown to me were great! She did a very even-handed job, I think, of showing all of QV's extended family and not just the more familiar ones. Plus, even if you know the photos (or many of them) having them in one place is fabulous, the glossy photo layout is great and the anecdotes she uses really added to the enjoyment of the photos. A real must-have.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Luc on July 22, 2008, 08:28:55 AM
Thank you both, GDella and Kimberly. I'll order it on amanzon.co.uk  :) (used)
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: imperial angel on September 17, 2008, 07:08:38 PM
Did anyone start a more recent thread on this- I searched, and found nothing although I'm convinced there was one, but I'd like to discuss the book, as I'm reading it just now and love his writing, and am begining to understand Beatrice far better. It is a very good book. I'd say more, but I wasn't sure if there was another thread or not.If not, lets start here.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: tom_romanov on September 18, 2008, 10:44:09 AM
i toohave read this book i found it very interesting and like you said, imperial angel, it too gave me a better insight to the sad life Beatric led
Title: Re: What books on Diana Spencer would you recommend?
Post by: imperial angel on November 05, 2008, 01:32:58 PM
Just bumping this up for Sasha 1..
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: imperial angel on November 05, 2008, 01:35:41 PM
This is defintely one of the best books on Diana.
Title: Re: The Diana Chronicles by Tina Brown
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 06, 2008, 04:03:52 PM
I agree totally...
Title: Re: What books on Diana Spencer would you recommend?
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 07, 2008, 02:31:38 PM
I read so much on her...I think I like Tina Brown's the best. She chronicled an age...
Title: Re: What books on Diana Spencer would you recommend?
Post by: Imperial_Grounds on November 07, 2008, 02:51:06 PM
Tina Brown's biography is my favorite, I've also read a book by one of her 'friends' and aldo it isn't that bad I don't know what to think about it. To many people try to make money out of her memory to trust upon those sources, and in my opinion the people who really cared for the Princess are those who don't make money of their friendship/connection with her(aldo some things can be helpful, but that doesn't mean the whole book is true, as the book of Paul Burrel has proven and also the one by Simone Simmons). Next on my list is Bradford's bio on her. I also love Diana - The People's Princess, I can't remember who wrote it but I loved it, and the covering of the funeral is one of the best i have ever read. Also i have quite a list of books I want(most of them released recently after her death, or later books)
Title: Re: What books on Diana Spencer would you recommend?
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 07, 2008, 02:56:36 PM
Indeed. It was a fair account to her and Charles. Both were dicussed and it was sad that by the time Diana died, she had reconciled with Charles somewhat.
Title: Re: What books on Diana Spencer would you recommend?
Post by: Imperial_Grounds on November 07, 2008, 05:44:38 PM
Indeed, they had reconciled, as do some pictures show that they lived on a friendly base towards eachother, some even believe they might have worked things out if Diana hadn't died. But to be honest I don't think they would've reunited, after all they were just too different and had to be friendly towards eachother for their children,  but that's it. I remember reading that Diana and Charles were growing closer, and that they had some good times in that year, in Simmons book if I recall, but things wouldn't have worked out. Too much had happened. But then again, we'll never know the whole story, only Charles, Diana, their children and those involved knew/know the whole story. And that's how it should be.
Title: Re: What books on Diana Spencer would you recommend?
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 08, 2008, 11:39:11 AM
I could not agree more.
Title: Re: What books on Diana Spencer would you recommend?
Post by: imperial angel on November 23, 2008, 03:53:45 PM
Indeed, they had reconciled, as do some pictures show that they lived on a friendly base towards eachother, some even believe they might have worked things out if Diana hadn't died. But to be honest I don't think they would've reunited, after all they were just too different and had to be friendly towards eachother for their children,  but that's it. I remember reading that Diana and Charles were growing closer, and that they had some good times in that year, in Simmons book if I recall, but things wouldn't have worked out. Too much had happened. But then again, we'll never know the whole story, only Charles, Diana, their children and those involved knew/know the whole story. And that's how it should be.

That's a great summary of it. I've read so many books on Diana, Princess of Wales and there are so many different opinions on her and what she was like, but the whole story despite all the publicity she and the break up of her marriage got isn't something we will ever know. Even those close to her had differing views of her and her life as expressed in books, and they were there, unlike us who just read about it, and they don't know everything I feel from reading their books. I always felt (and I remember feeling this back in winter 1997 etc when I was  11, but I've been interested in her since age eight) she wouldn't live long. It is strange that I felt that looking back, but I thought her story was doomed to end badly. It is hard to imagine her growing older.
Title: Re: What books on Diana Spencer would you recommend?
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 24, 2008, 09:34:14 AM
Indeed...It was creepy that she herself believed she would not make old bones...
Title: Re: What books on Diana Spencer would you recommend?
Post by: Imperial_Grounds on December 05, 2008, 11:02:00 AM
True, I cannot imagine Diana as an older woman, and it is true that, Diana story was like a tragedy. And it ended in a way a good tragedy should end. But even if that is true it still is so sad and heartbreaking because she might have found happiness again. The happines she was eager to find, but never found in life.
Title: Re: What books on Diana Spencer would you recommend?
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 05, 2008, 01:14:53 PM
Yes...Just like a shooting star...beautiful but brief in duration...
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: alixaannencova on February 13, 2009, 03:13:30 PM
Am terribly excited to discover that Charlotte Zeepvat's new book 'The Queen wore lilac' is on submission. I pretty sure it will be snapped up in the next few weeks and will hopefully be on the shelves some time this side of Christmas '09!!! I hope so anyway as it sounds truly scrumptious to me! I love her books and I just know this one will be very, very lavishly illustrated too!!!!!!
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: grandduchessella on February 13, 2009, 05:14:54 PM
There's a thread in the book section which discusses this title. Hopefully, there will soon be some more to discuss on it. It sounds like a really interesting subject and one right up your alley!
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: alixaannencova on February 13, 2009, 05:49:33 PM
Thankyou Ella...I should looked there first! Maybe you should add this thread to it! I can't believe it has been lurking about for more than a year and is still waiting in submission! But I am sure as they say...all good things come to those who wait!
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Rani on April 30, 2009, 03:59:23 PM
I don´t know if it is already shown:

(http://i39.tinypic.com/2qbc3o5.jpg)

http://www.elisabeth-sandmann.de/index.php/hunde

A book with pictures of the Royals with their dogs. It´s very nice.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Rani on May 30, 2009, 05:50:44 AM
In english

(http://i39.tinypic.com/2q2jvow.jpg)
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: historylover on May 30, 2009, 06:44:47 PM
I am interested in Charlotte Zeepvat's new book.  I hope that we don't have to wait too long for it!
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: SakuragiMiu on June 08, 2009, 02:49:58 PM
As anyone read Queen Victoria: A Personal History by Christopher Hibbert?

I just ordered it, but I'd like to get some opinions. Because in Portugal you can only find 2 biographies: this one and another one by a French writer, Alexandre Phillippe (Victoria, la dernière reine). Ofc I decided to buy the one written by an English author (even though it's in English, while the other one was translated to Portuguese).
Title: Mountbatten Assassination Memoir to Be Published
Post by: rgt9w on June 08, 2009, 06:25:37 PM
Lord Louis Mountbatten's grandson has written a memoir about the assassination of his grandfather,his twin brother and two others. The author was one of the survivors of the attack. The book will be published in August of this year. It is the first time he has spoken publicly about the attack.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mandrake/5259162/Earl-Mountbattens-grandson-finally-tells-his-story-of-survival-and-loss.html
Title: Re: Mountbatten Assassination Memoir to Be Published
Post by: rgt9w on June 09, 2009, 04:21:38 AM
The memoir will be titled "From A Clear Blue Sky". According to this press report, there are some concerns within the family over its publication.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1185154/A-memoir-far-Earls-clan.html
Title: Re: Mountbatten Assassination Memoir to Be Published
Post by: Grace on June 09, 2009, 08:32:41 AM
It seems a bit odd to me that someone who suffered so terribly from the atrocity which decimated his family would want to write a detailed book about the event.  If this had happened to me, I would want to concentrate on remembering good things about my family whilst they were with me, not their awful demise.  I'm not sure if I really buy the 'healing and reconciliation' claims.  I wonder if Timothy Knatchbull has money issues? 

I also think it's outrageous that the man who planted the bomb which killed Mountbatten and family has been out of prison for over 10 years now! 
Title: Re: Mountbatten Assassination Memoir to Be Published
Post by: Marlene on June 09, 2009, 11:55:52 AM

You've obviously never been through a tragic accident - -- this is a way for Tim to deal with the situatiion ... kudos to him for being so brave.

It seems a bit odd to me that someone who suffered so terribly from the atrocity which decimated his family would want to write a detailed book about the event.  If this had happened to me, I would want to concentrate on remembering good things about my family whilst they were with me, not their awful demise.  I'm not sure if I really buy the 'healing and reconciliation' claims.  I wonder if Timothy Knatchbull has money issues? 

I also think it's outrageous that the man who planted the bomb which killed Mountbatten and family has been out of prison for over 10 years now! 
Title: Re: Mountbatten Assassination Memoir to Be Published
Post by: Grace on June 09, 2009, 04:06:06 PM
How would you presume to know what I've been through, Marlene?  You wouldn't recognize me from a bar of soap!

As for it being "brave" and a way for him to "deal with the situation" - a very modern perspective but I find it a little strange that it's taken 30 years for him to do so, however.  Just my opinion.
Title: Re: Mountbatten Assassination Memoir to Be Published
Post by: Marlene on June 10, 2009, 03:05:01 PM

In case you may not have realized this, but Tim suffered a major trauma - being on that boat, which exploded - killing several people and maiming several others- he lost a grandfather and a grandmother and his twin brother.  One can only imagine the hell that Tim went through ... and it is not something one gets over in a week or even a year or perhaps even 30 years.  He may not have been ready to write about the events until now.


How would you presume to know what I've been through, Marlene?  You wouldn't recognize me from a bar of soap!

As for it being "brave" and a way for him to "deal with the situation" - a very modern perspective but I find it a little strange that it's taken 30 years for him to do so, however.  Just my opinion.
Title: Re: Mountbatten Assassination Memoir to Be Published
Post by: grandduchessella on June 10, 2009, 05:20:02 PM
I think different people deal with things differently and there's no right or wrong in such cases. Some might find it incredibly uncomfortable to put out such personal details, no matter how long ago the event occured, for public consumption. Others, and one sees this on TV all the time (at least here in the US) there's a rather cathartic feeling to sharing what happened. It may also be a way for those less known than Lord Mountbatten to be remembered. How many people might know who all died in the event but could name Lord Mountbatten as a victim? This could shine a light on those lives.
Title: Re: Mountbatten Assassination Memoir to Be Published
Post by: imperial angel on June 15, 2009, 12:36:32 PM
I think the reason he took so long to write about it and get it published was because it was such a traumatic event for him and it took that long for him to be able to write about it etc. So I don't see it as strange that it took him so long to write about it. It should be an interesting book.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: senorita on September 16, 2009, 07:29:00 AM
I read British Royalty Commemoratives (http://www.infibeam.com/Books/info/douglas-h-flynn/british-royalty-commemoratives/9780764308642.html) by Flynn, Douglas H. (Author)

Book Information:
Publisher: Schiffer Publishing
Edition Number: 2
Language: English
ISBN: 0764308645
EAN: 9780764308642
No. of Pages: 192
Publish Date: 2007-07-31

Its really nice to read this book.
Title: Re: Mountbatten Assassination Memoir to Be Published
Post by: rgt9w on September 25, 2009, 05:42:28 PM
The book has been published and here is one review:


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/books/article-1212004/After-bomb-Mountbattens-tragedy-twin-brothers-act-devotion-FROM-A-CLEAR-BLUE-SKY-BY-TIMOTHY-KNATCHBULL.html
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: historylover on November 28, 2009, 11:32:28 PM
What is that about, Senorita?
Title: Re: "Queen Victoria At Home" by Micheal De-L
Post by: Lander on March 03, 2010, 05:43:09 AM
Yes, it is a very good informative book
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Eddie_uk on April 04, 2010, 05:47:08 AM
I have just discovered that there IS a last book on the letters between Queen Victoria & Empress Frederick. Not by Roger Fulford as he had died by then but by another editor. I am eagerly looking forward to receiving it!
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Teddy on April 04, 2010, 02:49:06 PM
You mean the book by Agatha Ramm?
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Eddie_uk on April 04, 2010, 04:08:35 PM
Yes! Do you have it Teddy?
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Teddy on April 04, 2010, 04:13:24 PM
yes, I have every volume. Ofcourse there is no difference between the books by Fulford.
There is also an other book by Ponsoby (sic). The gentlemen who smuggled her letters out of Germany. But I have no idea if it is the same.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Alejandro Spain on April 05, 2010, 08:06:50 AM
Hello! What do you think that is the best book about the British Royal jewels? What are the diferences bertween the two book written by Leslie Field?

Regards and thanks in advance
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: AJR on June 06, 2010, 12:16:39 PM
Any word on this book supposed to be published in three months time?

http://www.ddows.org/new%20book%20about%20Duchess%20of%20Windsor%20by%20Hugo%20Vickers.html
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Constantinople on June 06, 2010, 12:37:47 PM
Hugo Vickers seems to have something to do with this organization so you might want to contact them,  The "journals"  seem a bit hagiographic for my taste but they may be interesting to you.
http://www.ddows.org/Back%20Issue.html
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Constantinople on June 06, 2010, 12:44:41 PM
I am not sure how different it will be to this book
http://www.amazon.com/Private-World-Duke-Duchess-Windsor/dp/0789202263
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Constantinople on June 06, 2010, 12:48:51 PM
You might also want to contact Hugo Vickers on his website, he may know the details

http://www.hugovickers.co.uk/biography.htm?nav=biography#broadcast
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Vecchiolarry on June 07, 2010, 05:34:05 PM
Hi,

Poor Wallis;  after the Duke died, I don't think anyone really visited her - she was vertually alone.
He was still the cheese for all those mice to congregate around, not her.
Shows you how really important she was in the scheme of things...

Larry
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Grace on June 07, 2010, 06:56:00 PM
After her health declined, some of Wallis's friends claimed that her lawyer, Suzanne Blum, took complete control and refused to allow them access to her when they wanted to visit or enquire after her.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Constantinople on June 07, 2010, 10:53:48 PM
That must have been a good reality check for the uber ambitious Duchess.  Nothing spells prestige to a woman better than being systematically and thoroughly ignored.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Grace on June 07, 2010, 11:49:13 PM
She wasn't ignored, as I indicated above.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Constantinople on June 08, 2010, 12:05:30 AM
She certainly wasnt by her lawyer.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: dagmar1927 on June 09, 2010, 05:12:44 AM
Has anyone read Secret Life of Queen Victoria by Johnathan Routh, as I've just ordered it off Amazon? I'd like to know if it's good, as there was no information there about it, but it was about Queen Victoria and I haven't got it, so that's my excuse for buying it. :-)
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: violetta on August 01, 2010, 01:32:04 PM
Could anyone please advise me on an informative and interesting book on the Edwardian era? I do not mean a bookONLY ON EDWARD AND ALEXANDRA but rather on the epoch, traditions, fashion, art, way of life. Thanks for your helpin advance
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: grandduchessella on August 01, 2010, 01:50:20 PM
There's the book The Edwardians, I'm sorry I don't remember the author. Also, Anita Leslie wrote several good books dealing with the era and also with some of the nobles & royals of the era. One of the titles is the Marlborough House set. She was the granddaughter of Leonie Leslie, close friend of the Duke of Connaught, and was therefore the cousin of Winston Churchill as well.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: violetta on August 01, 2010, 02:02:11 PM
Thanks a lot, Ella!
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Robert_Hall on August 01, 2010, 02:21:07 PM
Could that be the one by Jane Beckett, GDElla?  I recently gave my copy away...
 Although not exactly British but very Edwardian, Greg King's  a season of Splendour is very descriptive of the Edwardian era. the court of Mrs. Astor, who emulated the  British  fashion and taste of that time.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: violetta on August 01, 2010, 04:16:22 PM
There's the book The Edwardians, I'm sorry I don't remember the author. Also, Anita Leslie wrote several good books dealing with the era and also with some of the nobles & royals of the era. One of the titles is the Marlborough House set. She was the granddaughter of Leonie Leslie, close friend of the Duke of Connaught, and was therefore the cousin of Winston Churchill as well.

Ella, may be the author of the Edwardias is Peter Brent? I came across a book by him
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: violetta on August 01, 2010, 05:04:35 PM
i found a book by anita leslie EDWARDIANS IN LOVE. is it worth reading?
Title: New book: William IV, Mrs. Jordan and the Family They Made by Daniel A. Willis
Post by: Dan Willis on March 26, 2011, 01:03:07 PM
I am pleased to announce my newest book, "William IV, Mrs. Jordan, and the Family They Made" has recently been released and is now available from most on-line book sellers.

This book examines the family of the King William IV (during his years as Duke of Clarence) and the actress Dorothy Bland, known as Mrs. Jordan. After two biographical chapters of William & Dorothy, the remainder of the book takes first a biographical look at their descendants and then includes a detailed genealogy of the 900+ descendants.

The cover price is US$35.00, but I noticed that Amazon was offering it for a slight discount at the moment.
Title: Re: New book: William IV, Mrs. Jordan and the Family They Made by Daniel A. Willis
Post by: RoyalWatcher on March 27, 2011, 07:14:17 PM
Congratulations on your book!
Title: New book: William IV, Mrs. Jordan and the Family They Made by Daniel A. Willis
Post by: Lucien on March 28, 2011, 12:21:29 PM
Congratulations Dan!!! :)..Calls for a celebration!
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: LadyTudorRose on April 13, 2011, 09:22:39 PM
Hate to thread bump, but I just got this book in the mail today. Anyone else reading it? Opinions?
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: AJR on April 14, 2011, 01:55:48 PM
I've been reading it since last week.

A very sad end to the life of the Duchess, but at last the full story of the final decade has been told accurately by an expert.

I am surprised by certain aspects (the 'life support machine' and the lack of more sources to back this up for example) and had hoped for more details on the visit Prince and Princess Michael of Kent made to the Duchess in 1978 (neither were interviewed for this book). On the whole however it is an excellent read, by an excellent Royal expert.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: CHRISinUSA on April 15, 2011, 06:30:29 AM
I've often been curious about the finances of the Duchess during her widowhood.  Does the book address if her resources remained comfortable after the Duke's death?  I have read that he lost a great deal of money in various failed business enterprises over the years - particularly over his ranch in Canada and attempts to drill for oil.  I also know that either the UK government (or George VI personally) provided him an income during his lifetime - did that income continue with the widowed Duchess?
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: AJR on April 15, 2011, 09:42:58 AM
The book does discuss her finances in detail and what happened to many of her possessions during the long 'reign' of her lawyer.

She was of course very rich but worried over her finances and in the last decade of her life needed 24 hour nursing care. Despite her wealth, her home sadly declined in appearance as the Duchess gradually became a complete invalid. One of her nurses went so far as to say the Duchess died in a 'slum' due to her own 'penny-pinching regime'.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: AJR on April 27, 2011, 10:15:31 AM
Further to the query re; the Duchess's finances, The Sunday Mirror featured an article on 6th March 1988 with an interview of the Duchess's nurse Elvire Gozin.

It included photos of the Duchess in her final days (taken by Gozin) and stated that the Duchess left £6.8 million in her will in addition to the money made through the sale of her famous jewellery collection. Reports on the amount raised through the sale of her jewels seem to vary from £26 million up to £37 million. I have also read that The Queen continued to send an annual sum to the Duchess, apparently to cover some of the costs of the nurses who tended her during the last decade of her life, though I'm not sure what source this was from.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Martyn on September 16, 2011, 07:53:26 AM
i found a book by anita leslie EDWARDIANS IN LOVE. is it worth reading?

It's an excellent book.  I have a very old copy that i have read several times. Written by Anita Leslie, descendant of Lady Leonie Leslie (nee Jerome), it gives a good insight into the manners and mores of the Edwardian upper classes, including the Marlborough House Set.  One of my favourite books.....
Title: Through My Eyes: A novel of Princess Beatrice
Post by: GrandDuchessIsabelle on December 12, 2011, 01:59:25 PM
(I wasn't too sure where to put this so it can be moved.)
A story I have been writing for a while now and Sunny requested that I post some of it. There is loads, so this is only the prologue, just to see what you think. I hope you like it.

 14th December 1861, Windsor Castle   
She shouldn’t have seen what she saw.
 Beatrice knew that she shouldn’t have, she should have been tucked up in the nursery with Leopold snoring next to her. Leaving the nursery after she had been put to bed was a very naughty thing to do and when she was naughty, Mama and Papa were very sad.
But this she hoped would count as an exception. Papa was ill and she had wanted to cheer him up. He had even told her, just this morning that she was his darling liebchen and made him so happy. Beatrice’s little chest had puffed up with pride as she kissed her father goodbye and went to her lessons with Alice. Papa had looked so weak and miserable lying there in the Blue Room that her heart had melted and she desperately wanted to run back and cuddle him again. So she had concocted a plan.
It had been very clever really, Beatrice thought proudly.  Lady Carr always fell asleep in the chair by the fire long before Beatrice did, so there was no danger of being caught by her and Leopold slept soundly enough. After that it was only a matter of opening the big heavy door, which she had blocked open with a heavy book before going to bed, and hiding in the shadows until she got to the Blue Room, then she could be with Papa until ten o’clock, when Mama and the doctors would come. She had wheedled this information out of Bertie this afternoon, when he came to sit with her and Arthur and Leopold. She could get absolutely anything out of Bertie when she wanted to, as she could from almost anyone, apart from maybe Alice.

Papa had told her off gently when she had crept in.
‘Bad liebchen’, he had murmured, but kissed her and allowed her to stay. She had shown him the dance she had seen Helena and Louise practice and sang a new song for him, but very quietly.
‘My clever Baby,’ Papa had croaked and Beatrice smirked with glee. Papa loved music and often took her on his knee to play the piano and sing German lullabies to her. She loved to please him by learning them and singing them back and then they would sing them together.
They had only been together for an hour when footsteps could be heard on the corridor and voices drifted into the room.
‘Der Schrank, schnell!’ Papa whispered; the wardrobe, quickly!
Quick as a wink, Beatrice had hidden herself in the large, oak armoire. She stifled a giggle, this was such an adventure!

A gaggle of voices woke Beatrice from her sleep. Groggily, she sat up from her slump and looked around. She wasn’t in her bed, she remembered, she was in the wardrobe in the Blue Room, which was why her back was aching. She peeked through the gap of the doors and saw the doctors, Mama, Alice, Bertie, Arthur and Helena gathered around Papa’s bed. Why were they here? She wondered and looked closer. Mama was on the floor beside Papa, kissing his hand and muttering soothing words to him in German. Alice and Bertie were talking in low, worried voices, the ones they used when Leo had fallen and was bleeding, and the others were looking very worried.
Suddenly, the mood changed and the doctors began to move more urgently. What’s going on? Beatrice wondered, and then thought, when will they leave? After a few minutes of frantic talking, Beatrice began to get anxious. Was something really wrong? Then, quite abruptly, the doctors stopped. A horrible moment of silence followed. Then Mama screamed.
 It was the kind of scream that would chill a grown man to the bone. To Beatrice, a four-year-old child, it was the most frightening thing she had ever heard and would ever hear. To witness her usually composed and regal mother lose control like that was so terrifying, that the little girl whimpered and cowered further back into the wardrobe.
After she had finished screaming, Mama flung herself onto the bed and sobbed into the bed clothes. Her brothers and sisters were crying too, but more quietly, and Bertie had his head bowed. Slowly, one by one, the doctors began to trickle out, followed by Arthur and Helena. Alice went around to Mama and took her shoulder, but Mama shook her off. Alice stepped back, as if she had been stung, and Bertie lead her gently from the room.
As quietly as she could, Beatrice crept from the wardrobe and to the door, glancing at Papa as she went. He looked very still and very pale, like he was a marble statue at Osborne. It frightened her to see him like that, so she stole from the room as fast as she could.
She hadn’t gotten far when she heard Mama come out behind her. Beatrice swiftly ducked into an alcove, but she needn’t have worried, because Mama couldn’t see her. Queen Victoria of the United Kingdom was too blinded by grief to notice anything at all, let alone a tiny child crouching behind a curtain. She closed her eyes and let herself fall to the floor. There she lay, wailing her heart out, while Beatrice, utterly disturbed by this display of emotion, fled though the castle to the nursery and flung herself into bed. When she woke up, she prayed, it might all be a bad dream.


Beatrice awoke to the sound of crying. She opened her eyes cautiously and saw Alice, Lenchen, Louise and Arthur all clustered on Leo’s bed. Leo was sitting on Helena’s lap, which he himself had decreed himself too old to do and even 11-year-old Arthur was clutching Louise’s hand. Beatrice felt with a terrible certainty that last night had not been a dream.
Helena, ‘Lenchen’ noticed her first. ‘Alice,’ she whispered, and Alice looked up at her.  Helena nodded towards Beatrice and Alice closed her eyes. She had been dreading this.
Alice got up and moved to sit on the end on Beatrice’s bed.
‘Baby, darling,’ she began, then cleared her throat and started again. ‘Liebchen, a terrible thing has happened.’ She looked into those innocent blue eyes and a lump appeared in her throat. ‘Papa has died.’ Louise sobbed again and so did Leopold, but Beatrice remained dry-eyed. Alice tried again. ‘He’s dead, Baby, he’s gone. Do you understand?’ Alice’s voice broke and she began to cry, the others joining in. Beatrice looked away. Dead. Her Papa was dead. Dead and cold, like marble.


Note: I tried to make this as realistic as I could, while still making it a good story. It is highly unlikely that Beatrice witnessed the death of Albert, that is just part of the story. The one thing that I took artistic license with is that Leopold was in France at the time of his father's death (as members of this forum told when when I queried it) and not at Windsor.
This is just part 1.
Sorry it's so long.
Title: Re: Through My Eyes: A novel of Princess Beatrice
Post by: MademoiselleAndrea on December 12, 2011, 02:38:57 PM
I absolutely love it!!! It's so wonderfully written & you did a good job making it very realistic. I could picture the entire story in my mind's eye, there's just enough description to make it vivid but not too much so like I often do. I like how you wrote it a little bit from a four-year-old's eyes, such as "when she was naughty Mama and Papa were very sad," while still making it third person.
How much more have you written? I really want to read more! :)
Where did the idea for the story come from, I'm curious to know.
Title: Re: Through My Eyes: A novel of Princess Beatrice
Post by: GrandDuchessIsabelle on December 12, 2011, 02:54:38 PM
I absolutely love it!!! It's so wonderfully written & you did a good job making it very realistic. I could picture the entire story in my mind's eye, there's just enough description to make it vivid but not too much so like I often do. I like how you wrote it a little bit from a four-year-old's eyes, such as "when she was naughty Mama and Papa were very sad," while still making it third person.
How much more have you written? I really want to read more! :)
Where did the idea for the story come from, I'm curious to know.
Thank you! I have written loads of it, some on the computer, some in my head and a lot is in a notebook. I'm trying to transfer it all to the computer as soon as I can, so more will be available soon.
As for where the idea came from, hmm, well, it really started when I read a book on QV and it had a family tree in it. I was looking at the children's names and birth dates and Beatrice caught my eye. I googled her, and began reading on wiki, and the rest is history! It's been in the making for a year and a half now.
Title: Re: Through My Eyes: A novel of Princess Beatrice
Post by: MademoiselleAndrea on December 12, 2011, 03:01:26 PM
Well, it's simply great and I can't wait until you post more!!
Title: Re: Through My Eyes: A novel of Princess Beatrice
Post by: Sunny on December 13, 2011, 01:00:03 AM
Oooh darling, thank you!!! I'll read it later after work!
Title: Re: Through My Eyes: A novel of Princess Beatrice
Post by: GrandDuchessIsabelle on December 15, 2011, 01:28:45 PM
You are all welcome! Thank you for comments! More:


23rd December, Chapel Royal, Windsor
It was raining. It had rained every day since Papa had died, Beatrice realized, drizzly, constant rain. The tears had been constant too; Mama and her sisters had all cried so much, Beatrice wondered how they had any more to shed.
Today Papa’s body had been laid in the chapel that, just three weeks ago, Beatrice and her brothers had prayed for his life in. Now, she stood clutching Arthur’s hand beside the tomb, trying to accept the fact that her lovely Papa was now in that cold, marble box and that he wasn’t coming back.
Arthur looked up from his little brother and sister to his older ones, clustered together by the door, whispering. Bertie was there, and Alice, Helena and Louise. Vicky was in Prussia, and Affie was at sea and they hadn’t heard from him yet. Arthur wished that he had been included in their council, but, at eleven, he was still deemed to be too young. Glancing down at Leopold and Beatrice’s sober faces, he felt a sudden wave of pity for them and gave their cold hands a squeeze.
Leopold felt empty. He had felt empty since that morning he had been awoken by Helena, tears rolling down her face, who had told him that Papa was dead. He couldn’t get warm either, Reverend Duckworth feared that he would get another cold and sneeze so hard he would bled. He hated bleeding, but he always would. And someday, the bleeding would kill him. When he was bleeding, Leopold was always mean and bad tempered, and the same thing was happening now he was grieving. He snapped at anyone who irritated him in the slightest, and mainly at his brothers and sisters.

‘Do you think he can see us now?’ Beatrice whispered, thinking about what Reverend Duckworth had told her about Heaven.
‘Don’t be stupid!’ Leopold sneered at her, ‘You’re such a baby, Baby!’
‘Leo…’ Arthur tried to calm his small brother, unsuccessfully.
‘He’s dead,’ Leopold continued, regardless, ‘He’s dead and never coming back and it’s your fault!’
‘It is not-‘
‘It is! It is! You snuck out of the nursery the night he died and you must have done something to kill him!’
‘Leopold!’ Arthur looked horrified as he watched the accusations fly.
Meanwhile, Beatrice’s cheeks were flushing. Leopold had seen her that night and he knew that she had left the nursery. But, worse than that, he thought that she had killed their wonderful, loving father. The anger bubbled up inside her until she swung her hand up to hit him in the chest. Luckily, Arthur was quicker, and grabbed her arms and pinned them to her sides, ignoring her yelps and cries. If she had hit Leopold, Arthur knew, he would have bruised and bled, causing him intense pain and everyone else stress that they did not need.
‘Alice!’ he yelled for reinforcements from his sister, but Alice had already seen the situation and had run to help.
‘Darling, stop it,’ she begged the wailing Beatrice, but Beatrice was beyond stopping.
‘I want Papa!’ the little girl sobbed. ‘I want my Papa!’ And she fell, howling into Alice’s arms.
‘And here comes the grief,’ Alice sighed to herself and, picking up the inconsolable child, began to make her way up to the Castle with the others trailing behind her. At the back of the group came Prince Arthur, with his arm wrapped around his subdued brother.

24th December 1961, Royal Nursery
It was still very dark when Beatrice felt herself being lifted from her bed and cradled to someone’s chest. For a second, she was frightened, but then she heard her mother sob into her hair as Victoria carried the child back to her own room. There, Victoria wrapped Beatrice in Albert’s nightshirt and got into bed, clutching the girl to her all the while.
Beatrice lay by her mother, listening to her weeping, until the sobs turned to sniffs, and the sniffs were silenced. She had to look after Mama now that Papa was gone, she realised, look after and keep her safe from anyone who hurt her. A fierce need to protect Mama came over Beatrice, as she huddled closer to her. She would never leave her, like Vicky, like Bertie, like Affie. Or Papa.
No, Beatrice thought to herself. She would stay with Mama forever.


Note: There is no proof that QV took Beatrice to her bed after Albert's death, it only a speculation. End of the prologue. What do we think?
Title: Re: Through My Eyes: A novel of Princess Beatrice
Post by: MademoiselleAndrea on December 15, 2011, 02:43:42 PM
Just as good as the beginning! Very emotional & the emotion is conveyed very well. Please post more soon!
Title: Re: Through My Eyes: A novel of Princess Beatrice
Post by: Sunny on December 16, 2011, 06:19:06 AM
@Isabelle, i think you write very well - I'm trying to speak as a reader, not as a writer myself ^^
English is not my mothertongue, as you know, but i've read a great deal in English expecially in the last period - Romanov books, historical or fictional, are quite almost in English, or at least, not in Italian, so i prefer the original. So i think i can say i like your way of writing - good job, go on!
Title: Re: Through My Eyes: A novel of Princess Beatrice
Post by: GrandDuchessIsabelle on December 16, 2011, 11:34:19 AM
Thanks Andrea, and Sunny! I will definitely keep writing.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Suzanne on March 14, 2012, 03:56:10 PM
I strongly recommend this book for Canadians and anyone interested in Canada's relationship with the monarchy

http://www.royalhistorian.com/the-diamond-jubilee-book-reviews-3-the-secret-of-the-crown-canadas-affair-with-royalty-by-john-fraser/
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Suzanne on March 27, 2012, 03:21:25 PM
Another interesting book about Canada and the monarchy

http://www.royalhistorian.com/the-diamond-jubilee-book-reviews-4-the-evolving-canadian-crown-edited-by-jennifer-smith-and-d-michael-jackson/
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Suzanne on April 09, 2012, 04:03:49 PM
Here's my latest Canada and the monarchy book review

http://www.royalhistorian.com/the-diamond-jubilee-book-reviews-5-canadas-constitutional-monarchy-by-nathan-tidridge/
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Suzanne on April 28, 2012, 06:47:45 PM
The Monarchy in Canadian fiction

http://www.royalhistorian.com/historical-fiction-roundup-4-the-monarchy-in-canadian-literature/
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Suzanne on August 20, 2012, 11:13:37 AM
Interesting new scholarly book about the wives of Edward I, Edward II and Edward III in 14th century England

http://www.royalhistorian.com/the-medieval-book-reviews-5-three-medieval-queens-queenship-and-the-crown-in-fourteenth-century-england-by-lisa-benz-st-john/
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: grandduchessella on March 28, 2013, 11:22:25 AM
Just saw this one on Amazon (not published yet). The title is a bit misleading since there were plenty of other women in between her and Wallis. :)

The Woman Before Wallis: Prince Edward, the Parisian Courtesan, and the Perfect Murder by Andrew Rose

From the glittering dance halls of Paris during World War I to the maisons de rendezvous, luxurious châteaus in the French countryside, The Woman Before Wallis recounts the untold story of Prince Edward’s tempestuous affair with a Parisian courtesan and the scandalous aftermath that has remained secret until now.

Prince Edward was the future King of England when he famously abdicated his crown over his love for the American divorcée Wallis Simpson. But two decades earlier, he was an inexperienced young man, stationed behind the lines during World War I, socializing with the elite aristocracy of Europe while fellow soldiers were being shelled in the trenches. Gradually, the awkward young man, who was desperate to see action, became involved in a very different sort of action—when his path crossed with the queen of the Paris demimonde.

Marguerite Alibert was a beautiful but tough Parisian who had fought her way up from street gamine to a woman haut de gamme, possibly the highest-ranking courtesan in Paris. She entertained some of the richest and most powerful men in the world—from princes to pashas. When the inexperienced Prince Edward was introduced to the alluring Marguerite, he was instantly smitten. After their tumultuous love affair ended, Edward thought he was free of Marguerite, but he was wrong. Several years later, Marguerite murdered her husband—a wealthy Egyptian playboy—by shooting him three times in the back at the Savoy Hotel in London. When Marguerite stood trial for murder, Edward was at risk of having his affair and behavior during the war exposed. What happened next was kept from the public for decades, uncovered thanks to exceptional access to unpublished documents held in the Royal Archives and private collections in England and France.

About the Author
Andrew Rose is a historian and barrister who practiced law in London for twenty years and was a judge until 2008. His first book, Stinie: Murder on the Common, was shortlisted for the Gold Dagger Nonfiction Award by the Crime Writers’ Association. He divides his time between London and France.
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 28, 2013, 03:17:19 PM
Sounds interesting...There are quite a lot of skeletons ion his cupboard.
Title: The Woman Before Wallis by Andrew Rose
Post by: Suzanne on July 15, 2013, 10:58:49 AM
My review of The Woman Before Wallis: Prince Edward, the Parisian Courtesan and the Perfect Murder by Andrew Rose

http://www.royalhistorian.com/the-woman-before-wallis-prince-edward-the-parisian-courtesan-and-the-perfect-murder-by-andrew-rose-review/
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Suzanne on September 24, 2013, 08:51:26 PM
Excellent new book on the Crown and Canadian Federalism

http://www.royalhistorian.com/the-crown-and-canadian-federalism-by-d-michael-jackson-review/
Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Helen on March 12, 2015, 07:47:23 AM
Lotte Hoffmann-Kuhnt, who published the letters that Empress Alexandra Feodorovna of Russia wrote to her friend Tony Becker in 2009, has published a new book.
It includes correspondence between Dr. Ernst Becker and various members of the British Royal Family and of the Grand-Ducal House of Hesse - about 450 letters in total.

Dr. Ernst Becker (1826-1888) was the editor's great-grandfather. He worked as a tutor to Prince Albert Edward and Prince Alfred and as secretary and librarian to Prince Albert. He was also an enthusiastic photographer.
Later, he worked as a private secretary to Princess Alice and as Geheimer Kabinettsrat in Darmstadt. He was the father of Tony Becker.

Editor:        HOFFMANN-KUHNT, Lotte
Title:          Dr. Ernst Becker - Briefe aus einem Leben im Dienste von Queen Victoria und ihrer Familie
Publisher:    Cardamina Verlag (Plaidt, Germany)
ISBN:          978-3-86424-231-1
Language:   German
Page count: 630 pages

http://www.cardamina.net/artikeldetails.php?aid=496&sprache=2

Title: Re: Books on British royalty (non-Tudor)
Post by: Suzanne on May 02, 2015, 05:26:22 PM
My first book, "Magna Carta and Its Gifts to Canada" was published by Dundurn Press today. The book includes lots of royal history from King John to Queen Elizabeth II. There's even a Russian history sidebar on attempts to limit Empress Anna Ivanovna's power.

To order directly from Dundurn Press:
https://www.dundurn.com/books/magna_carta_and_its_gifts_canada

On Amazon:
http://www.amazon.ca/Magna-Carta-Its-Gifts-Canada/dp/1459731123/

Thanks&Enjoy the book!

Carolyn Suzanne Harris