Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => The Imperial Family => Topic started by: Lisa on September 06, 2004, 06:46:58 AM

Title: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Lisa on September 06, 2004, 06:46:58 AM

I have this pic of Olga Alex. with her husband Kulikovski and her children, Tikhon and Guri:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v393/lyzotchka/TichonGoury.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Svetabel on September 15, 2004, 12:32:35 PM
Quote
Does anyone have any pictures of Maria Fedorovna's "forgotten" grandsons Georgi Mikhailovich, Tikhon and Guri Nikolaevich???? Thanks a lot!

Anya

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/olga_sons.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: LisaDavidson on June 21, 2007, 11:46:19 PM
I believe Olga Kulikovsky-Romanoff is still alive.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Svetabel on July 08, 2007, 05:43:18 AM
Olga Nikolaeyvna is still alive, she often visits Russia. Here's a link to a Russian site of the Olga Alexandrovna's Fund

http://www.fund-olga.ru/pred/ru/preds-01.htm (http://www.fund-olga.ru/pred/ru/preds-01.htm)

You can see a picture of Tikhon and Olga Nikolayevna, who is the President of this Fund. The site is very informative, it has some wonderful pics of GDss Olga Alexandrovna as well as her paintings.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Nadya_Arapov on April 18, 2008, 06:05:25 PM
Since the old thread about her was closed I thought someone should start a new one.

Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: nena on October 05, 2008, 05:30:57 PM
Olga and Xenia Alexandrovna simply impressed me!
(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Aleksandar_III/th_9244.jpg) (http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Aleksandar_III/9244.jpg)(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Aleksandar_III/th_39444d270abf.jpg) (http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Aleksandar_III/39444d270abf.jpg)(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Aleksandar_III/th_67c4136d36fb.jpg) (http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Aleksandar_III/67c4136d36fb.jpg)
Her paintings---amazing. How good she painted Tikhon..... :o I'll post some her paitings...And sorry if these have been seen.

Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Ally Kumari on October 05, 2008, 05:50:57 PM
Little Olga

(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/th_hgd.jpg) (http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/hgd.jpg)
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/th_oli.jpg) (http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/oli.jpg)
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/th_vk-02-1.jpg) (http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/vk-02-1.jpg)

In her uniform

(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/th_FILE7879.jpg) (http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/FILE7879.jpg)

Paiting

(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/th_954f1d0c631bf7eb.jpg) (http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/954f1d0c631bf7eb.jpg)

As a bride

(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/th_cvs.jpg) (http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/cvs.jpg)

In her nurse uniform

(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/th_157117.jpg) (http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/157117.jpg)
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/th_2152173712_633db58b6e_o.jpg) (http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/2152173712_633db58b6e_o.jpg)


Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: nena on October 05, 2008, 05:54:00 PM
Thank you,Ally.....May I add some?:
(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Aleksandar_III/th_14b46877088e.jpg) (http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Aleksandar_III/14b46877088e.jpg)(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Aleksandar_III/th_2005-43-112-03.jpg) (http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Aleksandar_III/2005-43-112-03.jpg)

Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: rgt9w on October 05, 2008, 07:51:12 PM
I was watching the documentatry "Olga: The Last Grand Duchess" today and it showed a small segment of film footage of Olga's funeral in Toronto. Does anyone have any photographs from her funeral service or know where the film footage is archived? I was specifically trying to find a photo of members of her old regiment, the Akhturksy, guarding her coffin.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Ally Kumari on October 06, 2008, 01:58:55 AM
Thank you Svetabel!

Olga in 1896
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/th_FILE0666.jpg) (http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/FILE0666.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: nena on October 06, 2008, 07:29:43 AM
Her two paitings:
http://www.museum.ru/N23179

(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Aleksandar_III/th_ol_0263.jpg) (http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Aleksandar_III/ol_0263.jpg)(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Aleksandar_III/th_ol_0281.jpg) (http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Aleksandar_III/ol_0281.jpg)

Her works:
(http://www.nsad.ru/pic/deti.jpg)
-Tikhon and Guri
(http://www.nsad.ru/pic/Tixon.jpg)
-Tikon

What a artist she was!
(http://www.nsad.ru/pic/FeodsobTsarselo.jpg)
-Feodorovsky Sabor
See here (http://www.nsad.ru/index.php?issue=9999&section=&article=274) for more.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Ally Kumari on October 06, 2008, 09:30:41 AM
She really was a great artist... Wonder why didn´t she ever portraited her beloved nieces?

One more of Olga as a nurse
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/th_2319312274_8b32800d39.jpg) (http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/2319312274_8b32800d39.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: nena on October 07, 2008, 09:44:47 AM
I agree with you, Ally!

Family on beach, 1920s:
(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Aleksandar_III/th_vider19202kq4.jpg) (http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Aleksandar_III/vider19202kq4.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: grandduchessella on December 12, 2008, 12:53:54 PM
(http://www.royalcollection.org.uk/egallery/images/collection_large/404236.jpg)

Portrait of A Lady painted by GDss Olga in 1919. It's in the Royal Collection.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Svetabel on December 13, 2008, 05:13:04 AM
(http://www.royalcollection.org.uk/egallery/images/collection_large/404236.jpg)

Portrait of A Lady painted by GDss Olga in 1919. It's in the Royal Collection.

Eck, she looks like Princess Alice of Greece, mother of Duke of Edinbourgh...
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Marc on December 13, 2008, 09:24:34 AM
I would bet that that is Alice...
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: PAVLOV on December 20, 2008, 04:09:06 AM
What has always facinated me about Olga and Michael, is how different they were to their other siblings.
They both married non royals, and appeared to be completely unpretentious. Olga moved to Canada, and lived in a little house, painted, and worked very hard at surviving. Michael as well, lived in a very ordinary house with Natasha in Gatchina.
I think perhaps they inherited their fathers love of a simple life, and dislike of pomp and ceremony.

Xenia, on the other hand, remained fairly close to her Royal connections, and lived at Wilderness House close to Hampton Court, which was a "grace and favour" property and given to her by George V . I read somewhere that she was also a fairly regular guest of the Royal Family.
Perhaps it was harder for her to let go of her previous life, or accept that her previous life was gone. I think she was much more "Royal" than her brother and sister.   

Does anyone know what Olga's relationship was with her sister ? They dont appear to have seen each other after Olga moved to Canada. Perhaps there was some sort of disagreement between them, I would imagine that in a family which went through so much trauma, emotions would perhaps have been a bit strained, at the best of times.       
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Alixz on January 14, 2009, 03:49:10 PM
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k14/Livadia13/Eleanorrooseveltschool.jpg)
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k14/Livadia13/8489.jpg)

It may be just me or the styles of the times, but I have always seen a resemblance between Olga Alexandrovna (bottom photo) and Eleanor Roosevelt (top photo)  when they were of an age.  In fact at that time, I think they were both very beautiful.  Even as life and hardship changed them (in much different ways, of course) they both were still very beautiful as older women.

Interestingly enough, neither was happy with the position she was born into and both preferred to work with the poor and the helpless rather than live off of her inheritance. (Of course, Olga didn't have much of a choice.)  But both were under appreciated as children and also as young women.  Both lost her father at a young age.

Eliot Roosevelt (TR's brother) was killed in a carriage accident and, of course, Alexander III died of nephritis at age 49.

Olga was subject to her mother's whims and Eleanor was subject to her mother in law's.  Sarah Delano Roosevelt was a challenge.  She made Eleanor and Franklin wait two years to announce their engagement let alone be engaged.

Neither Olga nor Eleanor was stuffy nor unapproachable and both are remembered for being "simple and unaffected" as QV would say.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Alixz on January 14, 2009, 03:59:13 PM
Olga was born on June 13, 1882.

Eleanor was born on October 11, 1884

Olga's father died in 1894.  She was 12

Eleanor's father died in 1894.  She was 10
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Alixz on January 14, 2009, 06:30:33 PM
Olga died in 1960 at age 78.

Eleanore died in 1962 at age 78.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: imperial angel on January 16, 2009, 12:31:15 AM
Interesting comparison- I'm no expert on Eleanor Roosevelt ( I'm bored by American history), in fact I know little about her, but I guess I don't see the comparison to Olga A. Perhaps the similarities you see might be seen by someone who knows more about Eleanor though.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Alixz on January 16, 2009, 10:49:18 PM
I am working on more comparisons.  I have other pictures and other dates and life coincidences to add.

This has been such a busy week.

But I have a lot more.

It is too bad that American History bores so many.  I don't know where you are from, but I know that here in the US a lot of boredom comes from the curriculum and the way that teachers present it.

For some reason every year starts with the Native peoples and then moves on to the European explorers.  We get through the colonization of the Americas and possibly through the Revolution and maybe the Civil War.  We hardly ever get to the Great War or WWII.  Anything after that is current events.  (not to me, I lived through a lot of it) but to the school systems.

American History has its 'royalty" and its magnificence.  The marriages of the debutantes from the Gilded Age to the princes and dukes of Europe is pretty fascinating.  Jenny Jerome married Randolph Churchill and was Winston's mother.

The Van der Bilts married into UK minor royalty and the Astors even became UK minor royalty.

Try reading Poor Little Gloria - Happy at Last the biography of Gloria Van der Bilt (who by the way is Anderson Cooper's mother) and you will see the pressure to marry a "title".

I find Theodore Roosevelt and Anna Eleanor Roosevelt Roosevelt to be most fascinating people.  Anna Eleanor's husband Franklin, on the other hand was too much of a politician for me.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: imperial angel on January 16, 2009, 10:59:54 PM
I'm from the US. I actually am interested in the Vanderbilts- have read about them, including Consuelo, who married into the British aristocracy. I like the Gilded Age of American history. I've read a little about Jenny Jerome. I actually once read a bio of Alice Roosevelt, Theodore's daughter, and was interested enough to read more, but never got around to it. I guess the rest of American history bores me, but I agree with you, it's the way it's presented.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Alixz on January 18, 2009, 03:27:31 PM
By the way for those of you who don't know:

Anderson Cooper is an anchor/reporter for CNN and hosts the show AC360 every night at 10PM EST.

I will get back to my comparison of Olga and Anna Eleanor soon.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on February 25, 2009, 05:49:01 PM
i ve only  seen this one of Tikhon

(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk70/Stella_sabata/tihon.jpg)

Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Ally Kumari on February 26, 2009, 05:42:33 AM
I wonder if there are paintings of Olga's children ?

Olga´s sons under Christmas tree
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/th_0_2005e_35d6a102_orig.jpg) (http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/0_2005e_35d6a102_orig.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Ally Kumari on March 09, 2009, 05:49:24 AM


Two well known, but in better quality than usual
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/various/th_Escanear0035.jpg) (http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/various/Escanear0035.jpg)
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/various/th_Escanear0149.jpg) (http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/various/Escanear0149.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: imperial angel on March 09, 2009, 04:26:16 PM
What has always facinated me about Olga and Michael, is how different they were to their other siblings.
They both married non royals, and appeared to be completely unpretentious. Olga moved to Canada, and lived in a little house, painted, and worked very hard at surviving. Michael as well, lived in a very ordinary house with Natasha in Gatchina.
I think perhaps they inherited their fathers love of a simple life, and dislike of pomp and ceremony.

Xenia, on the other hand, remained fairly close to her Royal connections, and lived at Wilderness House close to Hampton Court, which was a "grace and favour" property and given to her by George V . I read somewhere that she was also a fairly regular guest of the Royal Family.
Perhaps it was harder for her to let go of her previous life, or accept that her previous life was gone. I think she was much more "Royal" than her brother and sister.   

Does anyone know what Olga's relationship was with her sister ? They dont appear to have seen each other after Olga moved to Canada. Perhaps there was some sort of disagreement between them, I would imagine that in a family which went through so much trauma, emotions would perhaps have been a bit strained, at the best of times.       

Have you ever read Xenia by Coryne Hall? It might answer your question. I did read it, but don't own it anymore ( gave it somebody) but I believe it may have mentioned Xenia's relationship with Olga. Olga was younger than her siblings, so there was an age gap between Xenia and Olga, which may have affected their relationship. I agree Olga was down to earth, but she did early on agree to an arranged marriage, so at one time she was royal enough to go along with that, although I think she was also young and confused. Michael fell in love with a royal cousin and wished to marry her ( Ducky's sister Beatrice) but they were first cousins so under the rules of the Russian Orthodox church they could not marry. So I'm not sure Micheal esp was less '' Royal'' than Xenia, it was just that after both Micheal and Olga wed commoners, their lives took them ever more away from royal circles, especially in exile with regards to Olga. So it may not have been they were less inherently '' Royal'' it's just their lives took them in different directions. Also, informality was very prized in the Danish Royal family of MF ( who was raised in very simple circumstances for a Royal, despite her later rank) so it wasn't just from Alexander III that the informality thing came.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Olga Maria on March 09, 2009, 11:38:01 PM
Seeing her works, she indeed has a very talented pair of hands and brain to imagine what she want to paint.
Absolutely correct eyesight!
Who was her most favorite niece/nephew?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Svetabel on March 10, 2009, 02:13:53 AM
Who was her most favorite niece/nephew?

GDss Anastasia.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Svetabel on March 15, 2009, 02:32:31 PM
GDss Olga and her sister Xenia in Denmark

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Rarefind/olgaxenia1.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Marc on March 17, 2009, 05:59:33 AM
(http://www.royalcollection.org.uk/egallery/images/collection_large/404236.jpg)

Portrait of A Lady painted by GDss Olga in 1919. It's in the Royal Collection.

I am pretty sure it's Alice...look at her mark on the cheek and her earrings which can be seen in this picture..

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://cache.gettyimages.com/xc/3271313.jpg%3Fv%3D1%26c%3DViewImages%26k%3D2%26d%3D2C48553CC6AAB74C95ACB957FF81CF6EA55A1E4F32AD3138&imgrefurl=http://www.jamd.com/image/g/3271313&usg=__eXiu9LmD-ydumQxWhKodjdQVoqI=&h=594&w=440&sz=26&hl=en&start=17&um=1&tbnid=dxxJHlXZhGPuqM:&tbnh=135&tbnw=100&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dalice%2Bbattenberg%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26channel%3Ds%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on March 17, 2009, 07:39:43 AM
Absolutely new for me

(http://i43.tinypic.com/2jcvlt3.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: grandduchessella on March 17, 2009, 09:06:53 AM
It was part of a series for her engagement to Peter.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Olga Maria on March 18, 2009, 09:55:17 PM
It's indeed Alexei sitting with his Mama.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Ally Kumari on March 22, 2009, 12:26:02 PM
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/various/th_makinggate.jpg) (http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/various/makinggate.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Ally Kumari on March 27, 2009, 09:28:08 AM
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/various/th_1010541L.jpg) (http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/various/1010541L.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Olgasha on March 28, 2009, 02:33:44 AM
Olga Alexandrovna [from the left] with her mother [centre]:
(http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/1337/mariaolga1896.jpg)
This picture was taken in 1896.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Olgasha on April 06, 2009, 02:01:56 PM
GD Olga Alexandrovna as sister of mercy
(http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/7707/evgeninskyhospitalolga.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Royal Bulgaria on April 07, 2009, 02:20:52 PM
If i may add that one

Olga and Nicky
(http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt261/Grande_DuchesseOlga/th_NickyOlga-1.jpg) (http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt261/Grande_DuchesseOlga/NickyOlga-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Royal Bulgaria on April 07, 2009, 03:44:49 PM
Indeed true.... There was one more taken that day but can't find it
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: KarlandZita on April 12, 2009, 08:40:24 AM
Olga Alexandrovna in evening dress :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Others%20Romanov/gdoa.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Royal Bulgaria on April 12, 2009, 12:04:51 PM
I agree with Eric....

New to me and veeeeeeerryyy beautiful i must say....And wow the year was 1914....Olga looks amazing
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on April 13, 2009, 01:59:51 PM
Olga was not a classical beauty, but she looks very natural and attractive nontheless.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: miki_nastya on April 16, 2009, 07:19:13 AM
  Could you tell me more about Olga Alexandrovna sons ? When did they die? Who were their wives? And of course pictures of them.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Tina Laroche on April 16, 2009, 12:41:02 PM
There are some pictures of them with their mother in the old thread for Olga Alexandrovna, which is now locked. To make it short, she had two sons - Tikhon Kulikovsky, born 1917 - died in 1993, and his younger brother Guri (I've also seen it spelled as Yuri, but I always say Guri). born 1919 - died 1984. I don't know much about their wives, however Olga's four grandchildren are still living.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: nena on April 16, 2009, 06:12:19 PM
Yes, one is named Olga, too. I saw her in documentary. IF received telegram of Tikhon's birth, during trip to Tobolsk, in August of 1917.  ;-)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Condecontessa on April 20, 2009, 12:00:57 PM
Same Day:

(http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg182/divine1grace/MishaXeniaandOlgathreeyoungerchildr.jpg)

By the way, thank you brnbg aka: liljones1968 for the pics. All were new to me :)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Ally Kumari on April 20, 2009, 12:25:58 PM
Would anybody happen to know the birthdates of Olga´s sons?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: nena on April 20, 2009, 01:04:20 PM
Tikhon's birthday - 25. 8. 1917.

More in Russian about him:
http://www.xxl3.ru/kadeti/kulikovsky.htm

I don't know about Gurii, really.  :-[ . Of course date is known, or even written in book, but I don't know.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Ally Kumari on April 20, 2009, 01:10:24 PM
Thank you Nena. What about Guri?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: nena on April 20, 2009, 01:13:34 PM
I found --  23. 04. 1919. From here (http://www.gusa.ru/spiski.html). Both dates are mentioned.

Welcome!  ;-)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Tina Laroche on April 20, 2009, 01:21:41 PM
I found --  23. 04. 1919. From here (http://www.gusa.ru/spiski.html). Both dates are mentioned.

Thanks, thanks a lot about this!
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Proud_Olga on April 20, 2009, 01:29:22 PM
I found --  23. 04. 1919. From here (http://www.gusa.ru/spiski.html). Both dates are mentioned.

Thanks, thanks a lot about this!

Yes, thank you very very much!
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: miki_nastya on April 20, 2009, 02:19:51 PM
 could you post picture of them please ? I have seen a few, but I wonder if there are more.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Gabriella on April 20, 2009, 03:10:51 PM
Olga and her family in Denmark:
(http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb175/silkedorothea/OlgamitFamilie.jpg)

Olga with her sons:
(http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb175/silkedorothea/denmark1920iger.jpg)

(http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb175/silkedorothea/lgawithhersons2.jpg)

Regards,

Gabriella
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: nena on April 20, 2009, 05:02:56 PM
One more:

(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Aleksandar_III/th_vider19202kq4.jpg) (http://s185.photobucket.com/albums/x139/nemanjapr/Romanov/Aleksandar_III/?action=view&current=vider19202kq4.jpg)

Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: nena on April 24, 2009, 09:08:18 AM
It was last Romanov family marrying (during NII regime) in late 1916. South Ukraine/Crimea, I suppose. According to accounts, Nicholas looked very old and tired during ceremony.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Svetabel on April 24, 2009, 12:48:15 PM
It was last Romanov family marrying (during NII regime) in late 1916. South Ukraine/Crimea, I suppose. According to accounts, Nicholas looked very old and tired during ceremony.

Do you mean Nikolai Kulikovskiy? As Nicholas II didn't attend Olga's wedding.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: nena on April 24, 2009, 01:13:39 PM
By 'NII' I meant Tsar Nicholas II . Yes, her wedding to Nikolai Kulikovsky, he was her second husband, right?  I've always thought he( Nicholas II ) attended to Olga's wedding but for short time, or he sent letter. My sincere apologies.

EDIT: Thank you for explanation!
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Svetabel on April 24, 2009, 01:27:43 PM
By 'NII' I meant Tsar Nicholas II . Yes, her wedding to Nikolai Kulikovsky, he was her second husband, right?  I've always thought he( Nicholas II ) attended to Olga's wedding but for short time, or he sent letter. My sincere apologies.

The relatives who attended the Olga wedding ceremony were her mother the Empress and GD Alexander M., her sister's husband.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on April 29, 2009, 09:54:03 PM
I know GDss Olga had dogs, but does anyone know what kind (one was a husky, I think?) and what their names were?  I can't find that information anywhere!
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Ally Kumari on May 07, 2009, 07:03:31 AM
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/various/th_olga.jpg) (http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/various/olga.jpg)
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/various/th_kluci.jpg) (http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/various/kluci.jpg)
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/various/th_klucia.jpg) (http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/various/klucia.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Ally Kumari on May 07, 2009, 07:08:06 AM
With her second husband
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/various/ola.jpg)

On one of Imperial yachts
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/various/Beznzvu2.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Ally Kumari on May 07, 2009, 07:09:10 AM
Two pictures from exile
With her mother, sister and others
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/various/th_meeting.jpg) (http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/various/meeting.jpg)

With her husband and two sons
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/various/th_olkakulik.jpg) (http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/various/olkakulik.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Ally Kumari on May 10, 2009, 02:31:42 PM
Olga Alexandrovna as dutiful nurse
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/royalty/12rlcc.jpg)

Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Ally Kumari on May 12, 2009, 10:06:58 AM
Little Olga with her mother

(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/royalty/toerismezld_44.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on May 13, 2009, 12:02:36 PM
Olga and her first husband Peter of Oldenburg (I think this is one of the pictures of the engagement...or im wrong?)

(http://i41.tinypic.com/1xjlx.jpg)


Mods, if this picture is repeated, please feel free to delete it ;-)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Svetabel on May 13, 2009, 12:32:35 PM
Olga and her first husband Peter of Oldenburg (I think this is one of the pictures of the engagement...or im wrong?)


Yes, that's the engagement picture.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on May 13, 2009, 08:21:30 PM
GDss Olga has the same eyes as her brother Nicholas II - did anyone else notice?  They're really noticeable in that photo of her with Peter of Oldenberg.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: RealAnastasia on May 25, 2009, 11:07:19 PM
Olga's expression when she was marrying Kulikovsky was happy and fresh...but just look at her poor little face when she was engaged to Oldenburg. I may almost feel her sadness.

RealAnastasia.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: katmaxoz on May 27, 2009, 06:34:19 AM
I don't think these have been posted here from a look through this thread...



Olga & her first husband Peter of Oldenburg
(http://i41.tinypic.com/zurtdv.jpg)

Olga at her second marriage to Nikolai Kulikovski
(http://i39.tinypic.com/2ibnshu.jpg)

Olga & Nikolai Kulikovski
(http://i41.tinypic.com/ab68.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Svetabel on May 27, 2009, 06:44:16 AM
I don't think these have been posted here from a look through this thread...



Olga & her first husband Peter of Oldenburg
http://i41.tinypic.com/zurtdv.jpg (http://i41.tinypic.com/zurtdv.jpg)

That's not Peter but her brother GD Mikhail.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on May 27, 2009, 05:09:45 PM
Yup`, thats her brother Misha, but the picture was taken in the same time of the engamenent session ;-)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Vecchiolarry on May 27, 2009, 06:43:44 PM
Hi,

She looks very pretty in that photo with the pearls....

Larry
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on May 27, 2009, 09:11:25 PM
The sepia-toned photo of her with Nicolai is beautiful. 
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Reco on May 27, 2009, 11:01:04 PM
Yes, this is Olga and her brother Michel.

(http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/3401/zurtdvolgaandmichel.th.jpg) (http://img32.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zurtdvolgaandmichel.jpg)(http://)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: katmaxoz on May 29, 2009, 09:38:57 AM
I don't think I've seen this anywhere in the Olga thread, but I came across this online auction catalogue with a tonne of paintings by Olga. Really outstanding I thought and I'd thought I'd share it...

http://www.bruun-rasmussen.dk/vfs/catalogues/779/779_olga.pdf

And the link back to the information page on the Auction:

http://www.bruun-rasmussen.dk/vfs/articles/1.1/olga.html?lang=en
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on May 30, 2009, 10:12:08 PM
I thoroughly enjoyed that, katmaxoz.  Thank you!
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Svetabel on June 01, 2009, 12:43:52 PM
GDss Olga in a hussar uniform of her regiment.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Rarefind/olga09.jpg)

This is another shot from Olga's sitting in the regiment attire, the 1st one can be found in Ch.Zeepvat book.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Ally Kumari on June 20, 2009, 02:53:49 PM
Cigarette box?

(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/marked/80010455.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Ally Kumari on June 20, 2009, 03:09:26 PM
With her first husband in 1901

(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/marked/olga.jpg)

Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Olgasha on September 02, 2009, 09:03:14 AM
(http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/4982/auntolga1914.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Ally Kumari on September 02, 2009, 09:22:48 AM
well that certainly is new and rare for me! Thank you for posting. I guess 1914?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Olgasha on September 02, 2009, 09:28:46 AM
well that certainly is new and rare for me! Thank you for posting. I guess 1914?
Yes, it was labeled 'Olga 1914'.:-)

She looks so nice and almost beautiful at that picture...;-)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: violetta on September 02, 2009, 09:52:12 AM
When i think about olga alexandrovna`s life i`ve always wondered why her mother arranged her daughter`s marriage with pyotr oldenburgskiy. this is not that i expect a definite and unequivocal answer from forum members but i`d like to express my attitude towards this arrangement that in turn meant unhappiness for olga and necessity to wait many years for her divorce and subsequent marriage. staffn scott claims that MF wanted to keep olga as her companion (it reminds me of beatrice and QV) so she arranged this marriage without her daughter`s concent or even knowledge. she did not even have a proper wedding, just a laconic announcement about her mariage to oldenburgskiy.i just wonder why  MF stherood on the way to her daughter`s happiness. she must have been aware of her futue son-in-law`s sexual inclinations and lack of feelings between them. in fact,he marrie olga just because of prestige to be married to the Tza`s sister. how was that possible? it`s so unhuman....cruel....
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on September 02, 2009, 11:09:08 AM
Cigarette box?

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/marked/80010455.jpg (http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/marked/80010455.jpg)

Nope, cigarrette cards ;-)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Royal Bulgaria on September 02, 2009, 11:32:14 AM
Wonderful find
(http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt261/Grande_DuchesseOlga/th_KsenOlga.jpg) (http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt261/Grande_DuchesseOlga/KsenOlga.jpg)

Which year is this?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Svetabel on September 03, 2009, 01:04:25 AM
When i think about olga alexandrovna`s life i`ve always wondered why her mother arranged her daughter`s marriage with pyotr oldenburgskiy. this is not that i expect a definite and unequivocal answer from forum members but i`d like to express my attitude towards this arrangement that in turn meant unhappiness for olga and necessity to wait many years for her divorce and subsequent marriage. staffn scott claims that MF wanted to keep olga as her companion (it reminds me of beatrice and QV) so she arranged this marriage without her daughter`s concent or even knowledge. she did not even have a proper wedding, just a laconic announcement about her mariage to oldenburgskiy.i just wonder why  MF stherood on the way to her daughter`s happiness. she must have been aware of her futue son-in-law`s sexual inclinations and lack of feelings between them. in fact,he marrie olga just because of prestige to be married to the Tza`s sister. how was that possible? it`s so unhuman....cruel....

In the thread "Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 1" there's a long discussion about who was guilty in Olga's arrangement with Prince Peter. The opinions are different and probably we will never know the truth but after some searching and reading the correspondence of MF, GDss Xenia, Nicholas II, other Romanovs and Princess Eugenia of Oldeburg, Peter's mother, I personally think that there was a sort of a plot of 2 mothers - the Empress and the Princess. Eugenia wanted a proper and very rich wife for her only son, Maria Fedorovna wth her egoistic nature wanted a daughter-companion near her all the time. And the diaries of MF of the 1914-1923 period proves this desire of the Empress.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: CountessKate on September 03, 2009, 07:50:57 AM
Quote
i just wonder why  MF stherood on the way to her daughter`s happiness. she must have been aware of her futue son-in-law`s sexual inclinations and lack of feelings between them. in fact,he marrie olga just because of prestige to be married to the Tza`s sister. how was that possible? it`s so unhuman....cruel....

While I haven't the slightest sympathy with Maria Feodorovna for encouraging the marriage (and I think Svetabel is correct in that she and Eugenia of Oldenburg basically set it up) I think it is unlikely that MF did so in any clear knowledge of Peter of Oldenburg's sexual inclinations.  And indeed, there is no evidence even today that he was homosexual, just as there is none for Sergei Alexandrovitch.  As long as there was no scandal attached to his name, it was easy for her to find in him a suitably subservient son in law who would be convenient for keeping Olga in Russia.  But I do feel that if there had been any hint that he was sexually attracted to men she would not have considered him for a moment, though I'm not saying that her overwhelming reason would have been the happiness of her daughter - more likely the fear of scandal.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: mcdnab on September 03, 2009, 09:20:06 AM
I am reminded rather of the concern expressed over the plans of the Princess Irena Alexandrovna to marry Felix Yussupov and his rather poor reputation at the time - and Grand Duke Alexander's belief that there was reason to be concerned whilst his slightly more naive wife Grand Duchess Xenia was inclined to dismiss the rumours as it seems was Marie Feodorovna.
As to Olga she had opportunity to protest between the proposal and the wedding which she by her own admission didn't because she wanted above all to stay in Russia. I can't believe if she'd really wanted to she'd not have been able to protest to Nicholas as she'd done so over the replacement of Nana a few years earlier.
Certainly the two mother's got on well and certainly Peter's mother was keen on the match - also it's worth remembering that unlike with her elder children Marie F's relationship with Olga was not good.
Arranged marriages for Royalty were not that unusual even by this period and often turned out well, I suspect that her mother believed it might be for the best.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Olgasha on September 07, 2009, 11:29:06 AM
(http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/6764/95917.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Svetabel on September 07, 2009, 12:39:29 PM
The last picture shows the Grand Duchess among the peasants and other people in Ramon, the estate of the Oldenburgs.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Twobsbob on October 13, 2009, 09:54:52 AM
Does anyone know the address of the house where Olga died in Toronto?  I've checked both Vorres and the more recent Phoenix book, both mention a hair dressing salon on Gerard Street, but no exact street address.  I will be in Toronto soon, and I thought I'd check to see whether a plaque or something has been erected in her memory.

Thank you
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on October 13, 2009, 08:32:15 PM
Does anyone know the address of the house where Olga died in Toronto?  I've checked both Vorres and the more recent Phoenix book, both mention a hair dressing salon on Gerard Street, but no exact street address.  I will be in Toronto soon, and I thought I'd check to see whether a plaque or something has been erected in her memory.

Thank you

I live not far from Toronto, actually.  To the best of my knowledge, there is no plaque at the house, but you can visit her gravesite at York Cemetery.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 18, 2009, 12:58:53 PM
Would love to visit there one day ! Is York cemetery close to downtown Toronto ?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on October 24, 2009, 11:10:12 PM
No, but it looks like you can take the subway.

Here's some links.:

http://www.findagrave.com/php/famous.php?page=cem&FScemeteryid=639389
And a map showing you where it is - it's the "A" marker.  http://maps.google.com/maps?client=safari&rls=en&q=york%20cemetery%20160%20beecroft&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wl
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Veronica on November 07, 2009, 06:54:51 PM
Olga and Misha

(http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/215/copiadeolgaymisha4.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Nicolá De Valerón on November 12, 2009, 05:34:16 PM
I'm a not a fan of Olga Alexandrovna. But I think this is interesting info. I've found it suddenly for me.
  1.First World War. Olga serving as a sister of mercy. Mannerheim is a head of 12-Th Cavalry Division (Major General).
  May 18, 1915
On the May 18, Baron Mannerheim received the following telegram: "To the general of the suite Of His Majesty Baron Gustav Mannerheim. I want to see my Akhtyrtsev. I would be on May 18 at 16.00 by train. Olga". Honor guard, headed by Mannerheim stopped at the station Snyatin in anticipation of military hospital train № 164/14 with the Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna on board. They waited for few hours, but the train never came. It was decided to begin celebrations in one of the barns covered with banquet tables. Then suddenly woman came quickly in a nurse's dress just in the middle of celebrating in the barn and sat at a table next to Mannerheim. One of the officers recognized her and offered a chair. The Grand Duchess leaned to Gustav and said: "Baron, you know, I do not like ceremonies. Continue to dinner and do not forget to pour me some wine, I know that you are gallant man, not like an other our friends..... I beg pardon for being late - they do not miss my train because of fear of German air raids. I sat on the horse - you know me as a rider - and I'm here with my escort. Please order to invite to the table my guardians". Celebratory dinner continued and was very good. The first pair in the first polonaise dancing was Gustav and Olga. On The next day there was a big parade. Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna was one of those women who had never been forgotten. Gustav saved the picture which was donated to him by Olga with her memorial inscription: "... I am sending you a photo, made during the war , when we were met more times and when, as the beloved head of the 12-Th Cavalry Division, you were with us. This reminds me of the past ..." Olga.
  2.Also during the war
  Once the Grand Duchess was visiting her regiment and, while bypassing the trenches, she suddenly became under Austrian artillery fire. Sisters of mercy were not required to be so close to the places of battles, and the Grand Duchess for her showing bravery was awarded with the St. George medal(Do not confuse with Order). Man, who was awarded her was the Chief of the 12-Th Cavalry Division, Major General Baron Carl Gustaf Mannerheim (later Marshal and President of Finland). Grand Duchess felt that she had done nothing heroic, and immediately placed her medal in the pocket of her leather jacket. Only the entreaties of the officers of her regiment,  forced her to wore a medal on her chest.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 12, 2009, 05:37:53 PM
Olga was always no nonsense about things. Had she given a chance, could be a very loved Romanov.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Nicolá De Valerón on November 12, 2009, 05:45:36 PM
Totally agree with you. I'm not an expert of her life, but I think she was very kind and helpful person.
Which doesn't combined with her aristocratic roots.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 13, 2009, 04:17:05 PM
Indeed. Had her brother been able to transform Russia to democracy, Olga and Ella would be able to reach out to the people. Minny and KK were also popular among the people and may do their bit. It was mostly Alicky & Rasputin that dragged the name through the mud.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Belochka on November 13, 2009, 09:02:02 PM
Indeed. Had her brother been able to transform Russia to democracy, Olga and Ella would be able to reach out to the people. Minny and KK were also popular among the people and may do their bit. It was mostly Alicky & Rasputin that dragged the name through the mud.

Actually you are wrong Eric.

The Duma and Petrograd society were responsible for dragging "the name through the mud".  

Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna knew that truth and said so, to her biographer Vorres.

Check your facts first and learn to set aside your inappropriate denigration of the former Russian Empress.

Margarita
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 14, 2009, 01:30:31 PM
I did quite a lot of research in Russian history as well as in the archievs in Darmstadt, Windsor and Southhampton (Mountbattan Collection) so I do not need you to tell me to check the facts. It was no surprise that Alicky was unpopular, she was cold, shy and hated to meet people (Marie Feodorovna and Alexander III had reservations about her as Empress and did all they could to steer their son from her to the point that even Margaret of Prussia (Mossy) was prefered even though Marie had no great love for Prussians after the Danish-Prussian War over the two duchies). Olga understood that too and said her mother was made for the role of Empress, while her sister-in-law was quite different. After the birth of the heir, the family retreated from society and lived a make belief world (according to Nicholas II's cousin Marie of Romania's memoirs). Olga further said only her mother and Ella had the monarchy's best interest at heart and yet they could do nothing.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Belochka on November 14, 2009, 09:57:42 PM
...After the birth of the heir, the family retreated from society and lived a make belief world (according to Nicholas II's cousin Marie of Romania's memoirs). Olga further said only her mother and Ella had  the monarchy's best interest at heart  and yet they could do nothing.

Eric,

Pity you failed to quote Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna's statement accurately.  What she actually said was:

"My mother and Aunt Ella alone had Nicky's interests at heart ..."

This provides a very different message to the one you attempted to convey here.

Similarly, you should have been aware that she qualified her statement by saying that -

"neither my mother nor my aunt knew all the details as they were. They too based their judgments on rumors." [Ref: Vorres, p 138]

As far as the Dowager was concerned she had the fortunate position of raising healthy children who required minimal personal attention, unlike her daughter-in-law who personally took on the role of motherhood. Her responsibilities towards Alexei took precedence over organizing grand balls and entertaining persons who grew accustomed to such Court amusements during Alexander III's reign.

Furthermore, using Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna's words: "others began coming to Tsarskoe Selo to give uncalled-for advice , to utter violently worded warning, even to make scenes."  [Ref: Vorres, pp 138-139]
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 15, 2009, 04:01:03 PM
If you want to compare oranges and apples. Alicky's grandmother QV never let her children's aliments blocked any offical function, and she was a soverign queen ! Similarly, Alicky's cousin Queen Victoria Eugenie of Spain had sick children (more than Alicky) yet she never let that be an excuse for not doing her duty. Anyway, Olga was apalled when her sister-in-law wanted her to see Rasputin. She absolutely refused.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Belochka on November 15, 2009, 06:34:13 PM
If you want to compare oranges and apples. Alicky's grandmother QV  .... Alicky's cousin Queen Victoria Eugenie of Spain  ... Anyway, Olga was apalled when her sister-in-law wanted her to see Rasputin. She absolutely refused.

Reading your response it is most evident that it is YOU who insists on making comparisons with other Courts.

Once again Eric you are confusing the facts with your fictitious notions.

Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna FIRST met Rasputin in 1907. She stated that: “When I saw him I felt that gentleness and warmth radiated from him.” [Ref: Vorres, p 131]

Surely it was up to the Russian Empress to structure her time in her Court as she saw fit?  
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on November 15, 2009, 07:19:58 PM
Some editions  as mine has that quotation in page 138 chapter "The rasputin Legend"

She also states "I do know that all i have said so far may well seem to turn me into a devotee of Rasputin`s. But let me say it straight out: I never  liked that man. All the same, the interest of history cannot be served by a false perspective" [Vorres P 138, chapter "The legend of Rasputin]

What olga refused was to be a devotee of him but she meet him and saw him with Alexei.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 15, 2009, 09:10:59 PM
Thank you Katenka !

You are right, Olga never took to Rasputin although she said she was amazed by his powers of healing. Also she could see that because of her blind trust of the man, the good name of the imperial family went down with it. It also broke the unity of the Imperial Family, Miechen (Grand Duchess Vladimir) and other Romanovs (grand Duke Alexander and Grand Duke Paul included) thought the Empress was mad and some even favor a palace revolution and exile her to a nunnary, while set up a regent for Alexis. To her credit, Olga never told anyone about those anxious last days on the monarchy.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on November 16, 2009, 03:46:57 AM
'As far as the Dowager was concerned she had the fortunate position of raising healthy children who required minimal personal attention, unlike her daughter-in-law who personally took on the role of motherhood. Her responsibilities towards Alexei took precedence over organizing grand balls and entertaining persons who grew accustomed to such Court amusements during Alexander III's reign.'

Surely organising balls was a matter for the household. Alexandra could be as much or as little involved as she wished. Here the Queen is well-known for her interest in the minutiae of state occasions (she always inspects the place settings for state banquets), but things would happen perfectly well without her doing anything. Realistically, all Alexandra needed to do was decide what outfit she was going to wear, perhaps cast an eye over the guest list, and turn up. Since the children had nannies she would not even need to find a babysitter, and, however obsessive she was over Alexei, she would only be away from him for a matter of hours. I'm guessing slightly here, but I would imagine that she and Nicholas would only need to turn up at a ball for a couple of hours at most, and could then disappear.

I don't think balls were an innovation of Alexander III's reign. The catalogue I have for the Hermitage Amsterdam exhibition 'At the Russian Court' (very well worth a visit if it's still on) has a good deal to say about balls and dinners under Nicholas I and Alexander II.


'Surely it was up to the Russian Empress to structure her time in her Court as she saw fit?'

Not entirely. There were things that were 'part of the job'. Just to draw a parallel, King George VI was terribly shy and, in particular, hated reviewing troops. However, it was part of his job as king so he did it - though there is a tale that when visiting the Eighth Army in North Africa in 1943 he had to be coaxed out of his tent for the purpose! One reason he is held in considerable affection is that he struggled to overcome his speech impediment and did things he'd have preferred not to do (such as being king in the first place!)

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 16, 2009, 12:48:56 PM
Well said. It was Alicky who was neglecting "her duty as Empress" that effected the popularity of the imperial family. How could they be popular when they were seldom seen and cocooned in their own world ? It was under this that many rumours about the family began to spread like the Empress and Rasputin were lovers and the heir need the blood of a soilder every day to be alive. All rubbish of course, but Alicky's insistance on Rasputin fueled further speculation. One historian even wrote that "If there was no Rasputin, there would not been a Russian Revolution !" Olga was a minor royal and did her bit in the war like others (The Dowager Empress, Grand Duchess Elizabeth...), but too unimportant to effect the turn of the fate of the dynasty. She was by then very much in love and hope to get married after her divorce from Peter of Oldenburg.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Twobsbob on November 16, 2009, 03:11:33 PM
Would love to visit there one day ! Is York cemetery close to downtown Toronto ?

The cemetary is within walking distance of a subway stop.  I saw Olga's grave; it has a nice, impressive monument and a plaque.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Condecontessa on November 16, 2009, 03:22:23 PM
It's a shame that Grand Duchess Olga is not buried in her native country. Being buried in Canada, far away from her imperial past. I guess there's no interest in having her interred at the Grand Ducal Vault in St. Petersburg.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 16, 2009, 03:35:44 PM
I don't think she minded too much...as long as she could be buried near her husband and her children.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: aleksandr pavlovich on November 16, 2009, 04:30:28 PM
Concerning Replies # 122 and  #123:  I believe that this topic has been brought up somewhat earlier.  As I understand it, there are no plans to separate her from her beloved husband, and it is certain that HE could never be interred in SS. Peter and Paul.  AP
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 16, 2009, 04:45:38 PM
Well. Unfortunately I agree. I don't think Misha's and Pavel's morganetic wives were buried in SS also.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on November 17, 2009, 03:23:31 AM
Mikhail and Pavel do not have known graves. I have been to SS Peter and Paul, but in all the crush of the crowd I didn't get a chance to look for memorials to them. Does the Orthodox Church have any view on memorials which aren't graves? Unless the view of the church would be a problem the solution would be a memorial to Olga there, while her grave remains in Canada. The Austrians have done this with the Emperor Karl - he is still buried on Madeira, but there is a nice memorial tablet in the  Kaisergruft in Vienna (lots of flowers on it when I went there).

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Belochka on November 17, 2009, 04:11:56 AM
Hi Ann,

There are no memorials dedicated to Grand Dukes Mikhail and Pavel Alexandrovich at the St. P Fortress. In fact nor are there memorials to the other Grand Dukes who were executed there on-site by the Bolsheviks in 1919.

You may recall that two "memorials" exist at the moment - dedicated to Grand Duchess Anastasia and Tsesarevich Alexei, in the small front annex where Nikolai II and some members of his family and entourage are already interred.

I very much doubt that Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna's remains will ever be exhumed and returned to Russia. Had she been an Empress who died in exile, then it might have been a different matter.

If one considers Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna's remains, then why not extend it to her sister as well and then to all the other Russian born Grand Dukes and Duchesses who died en exile?

Apart from the prohibitive costs involved, its just all too much for too many for no real good reason.

Margarita  
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Belochka on November 17, 2009, 04:24:20 AM
... I don't think Misha's and Pavel's morganetic wives were buried in SS also.

Both women were buried in Paris.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Belochka on November 17, 2009, 04:38:48 AM
... As I understand it, there are no plans to separate her from her beloved husband, and it is certain that HE could never be interred in SS. Peter and Paul.  AP

Quite correct aleksandr pavlovich!

No commoner will ever be buried in the Cathedral.

However there was a unique dispensation granted for Nikolai II's entourage who died with him and now share a common vault.

Margarita  
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on November 17, 2009, 06:39:37 AM
'If one considers Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna's remains, then why not extend it to her sister as well and then to all the other Russian born Grand Dukes and Duchesses who died en exile?

'Apart from the prohibitive costs involved, its just all too much for too many for no real good reason.'


I agree. Speaking personally, I find exhumations and reburials distasteful unless there are very strong reasons. There were the strongest of reasons to give Nicholas, Alexandra, their children and the servants who died with them a reburial, as they had not been properly buried in the first place, and as I understand it, the Dowager Empress did express a wish before she died that she would like to be buried with her husband if it became possible. If the bodies of Mikhail, Pavel and the other three Grand Dukes shot in 1919 are ever found and identified, there would be good reason to give them a reburial.

However, there seems no reason to uproot Olga Alexandrovna and the others who were buried abroad, so let them stay where they are and put up memorial plaques in SS Peter and Paul.

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 17, 2009, 12:23:53 PM
I agree. It would be nice for others who do not live in Russia to visit these graves (Olga in Canada and Xenia in France).
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Janet Ashton on November 18, 2009, 02:07:05 PM
...After the birth of the heir, the family retreated from society and lived a make belief world (according to Nicholas II's cousin Marie of Romania's memoirs). Olga further said only her mother and Ella had  the monarchy's best interest at heart  and yet they could do nothing.

Eric,

Pity you failed to quote Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna's statement accurately.  What she actually said was:

"My mother and Aunt Ella alone had Nicky's interests at heart ..."

This provides a very different message to the one you attempted to convey here.

Similarly, you should have been aware that she qualified her statement by saying that -

"neither my mother nor my aunt knew all the details as they were. They too based their judgments on rumors." [Ref: Vorres, p 138]



Furthermore, using Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna's words: "others began coming to Tsarskoe Selo to give uncalled-for advice , to utter violently worded warning, even to make scenes."  [Ref: Vorres, pp 138-139]

Indeed - the point OLga was making was that all Romanovs were very free with their advice to Nicholas, but that only her mother and Ella did so with disinterested motives. Her words were certainly not intended as a criticism of Alexandra or as a means of blaming her for everything. Olga was the one person who maintained (correctly in my view) that Nicholas and Alexandra were well-acquainted with Rasputin's faults, but chose to take him anyway. Additionally, Olga was also well-acquainted with the poor relationships that existed between Romanovs long before Alexandra came on the scene - her own book (not to mention her correspondence) contains plenty of remarks about Miechen and her sons, and she can hardly have been unaware of the jealousy and back-biting that went on between Maria Feodorovna and Miechen, since it was undoubtedly the source of her own feelings about that branch of the family.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Janet Ashton on November 18, 2009, 02:38:22 PM

You are right, Olga never took to Rasputin although she said she was amazed by his powers of healing. Also she could see that because of her blind trust of the man, the good name of the imperial family went down with it. It also broke the unity of the Imperial Family, Miechen (Grand Duchess Vladimir) and other Romanovs (grand Duke Alexander and Grand Duke Paul included) thought the Empress was mad and some even favor a palace revolution and exile her to a nunnary, while set up a regent for Alexis. To her credit, Olga never told anyone about those anxious last days on the monarchy.

Alexander Mikhailovich wrote that Rasputin's power was negligible and that people misunderstood the situation. He and his associates spent the first ten years of Nicholas's reign urging him to ignore and sidestep the ministers who were "driving a wedge" between him and his people; yet he did not like it when Nicholas took him at his word yet went to other shady sources for council instead of to him. He was no friend to democracy, and he had done plenty to "drag down" the good name of the Romanovs, as did the sainted Ella's husband, whose advice she so often urged Nicholas to take, in long, ranting and ill-punctuated letters. And indeed we know how bad Serge's reputation was because Sandro himself tells us so. A truly united family....:-)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 18, 2009, 04:12:56 PM
Well...Most historians believe that Rasputin played a vital role in propaganda war against the monarchy. Nicholas II tried to exile him but he was weak against his wife's pleas as Alexei was concerned. Even Ella was aware of the public hatred of Rasputin and tried to open her sister's eyes but was driven away. "She drove me away like a dog ! " she cried according to her niece Marie Paulovna, the younger's book. Olga was of course glad that Alicky could give her brother happiness, but she also saw her unpopularity dragged down the dynasty. The more I read the more I am convinced that had Nicholas III married anybody else, the Russian Revolution could have been at least delayed or even so his family could have escaped. Indeed even George V was convinced that Alicky played a role in the fall of the monarchy, and later recinded the offer of asylum. one of the things they talked about was the unpopularity og the Empress.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Janet Ashton on November 18, 2009, 05:26:42 PM
Well...Most historians believe that Rasputin played a vital role in propaganda war against the monarchy.

Of course he did. As did the excessively opulent life-style of the Grand Dukes; their flouting of house laws when it came to marriage; their bickering; their political roles; their mistresses; the German birth of the Empress and many of the grand duchesses (including Ella, who was stoned for it and accused of harboring her brother); Nicholas's confrontations with the parliament he himself invoked; his breaking his own laws, and his brutal and panicky response to uprisings against him. Not to mention of course his well-known tendency to seek advice from unofficial sources; his vacillation and complete lack of transparency in dealing with people. Oh and - the wars.

Anyway, I am sure I have said this before quite a few times.......it bores people no doubt (It certainly bores me :-) )

Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 18, 2009, 06:27:37 PM
Yes. I think for personal reasons, Olga was glad to be rid of the chains of being a royal. She was more of a free spirit.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: grandduchessella on November 18, 2009, 06:42:04 PM
Well...Most historians believe that Rasputin played a vital role in propaganda war against the monarchy. Nicholas II tried to exile him but he was weak against his wife's pleas as Alexei was concerned. Even Ella was aware of the public hatred of Rasputin and tried to open her sister's eyes but was driven away. "She drove me away like a dog ! " she cried according to her niece Marie Paulovna, the younger's book. Olga was of course glad that Alicky could give her brother happiness, but she also saw her unpopularity dragged down the dynasty. The more I read the more I am convinced that had Nicholas III married anybody else, the Russian Revolution could have been at least delayed or even so his family could have escaped. Indeed even George V was convinced that Alicky played a role in the fall of the monarchy, and later recinded the offer of asylum. one of the things they talked about was the unpopularity og the Empress.

And her unpopularity was chalked up (in the George V discussion) to her being a German during a war with that country. He said that she was considered a 'criminal' by many, not that she was cold. No doubt her personality played a part in her perception but as Janet pointed out, that same accusations of German sympathy was levelled at the very popular Ella. The Illustrated London News, in their coverage of the abdication, talked unfavorably of the 'German' members of the Romanov family though they gave Victoria Melita a pass on that.

Back to Olga, though. Did she spend any significant time in England at all after the war? She lived just over in Denmark for years. I haven't seen photos of her visiting the country ala the Dowager Empress and Xenia.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 19, 2009, 02:54:57 PM
Indeed. Ducky was lucky that she was born a British Princess instead of a German one. At the time of her birth, her father was still HRH. The Duke of Edinburgh and thus a Princess of Great Britian. Alicky and those born of foreign fathers were not so lucky (even Mary Loo & Thora). Also it is also the truth that due to constant illness and concern forAlexei, Alicky chose to ignore her duty as empress.

Olga did not spent much time in England as oppose to her sister Xenia, who lived out the rest of her life in the bosom of the Windsors.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on November 20, 2009, 03:32:14 AM
Had Victoria Melita and her sisters been born after their father became Duke of Coburg, they would still have been Princess of Great Britain and Ireland - their father did not lose one status, but gained a second. Equally, Charles Edward, Duke of Coburg, reined a Prince of Great Britain and Ireland until he was deprived of this by virtue of the Titles Deprivation Act 1917.

John van der Kiste's book on Xenia mentioned Olga and Xenia meeting several times between the wars, but I think in Denmark - I will look it up.

From what I remember of Marie Louise's book, she and her sister did nopt encounter serious problems in World War 1, but both of them were very active in wartime charities, which may have made a difference. Marie Louise turned her girls' club in the East End into a military hospital. Strangely enough, in 1916 my grandmother, a pianist, was asked to join an organisation giving concert for troops in France. The original letter is at my parents' house, and the organisation's patron is 'HH Princess Helena Victoria of Schleswig-Holstein'. Alas, my grandmother's parents made her stay at home. She was 25 at the time.

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 20, 2009, 01:58:19 PM
Indeed. When George V tried to conferr the title of "Duke of Edinburgh" on Georgie around the time of his marriage to Marina of Greece, but Missy wrote back protesting that she and her sisters (especially Ducky who did attent the wedding, being an Aunt of the bride) still think of themselves as "Edinburgh girls "!

Yes I think in Denmark. Olga did not plant roots in England.

Indeed. Mary Loo and Thora became "Princesses of Nowhere"...

Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: katmaxoz on December 12, 2009, 03:28:34 AM
For those of you who are interested in Olga's art this set of pictures of some of here paintings might be worth looking at.

http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/selistena2007/album/85646?p=0


enjoy
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 12, 2009, 10:50:34 AM
Are they selling them ?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: katmaxoz on December 12, 2009, 05:05:19 PM
Are they selling them ?

No - It's just an online gallery of images someone has collected, still it's a nice selection of her work.

Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 13, 2009, 08:23:55 PM
Thanks for the correction since I cannot read the language.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Douglas on December 13, 2009, 08:36:31 PM
Thanks for the correction since I cannot read the language.

Here is the translation Eric, the second paragraph of the translation is onterleaved with the English wording:

Watercolors by Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna Romanova

 Princess Olga - porfirorodny the only child in the family of Emperor Alexander III. . She was born June 1 (14 June to n.st.) in 1882 at the beginning of the reign of his August father. . All of her brothers, among them Russia's last Tsar Nicholas II, and his sister were born before his accession to the throne of Grand Duke Alexander Alexandrovich.

У девочки рано проявились художественные способности: маленькая княжна уже в пятилетнем возрасте уверенно держала в руке кисть и карандаш. The girl's artistic talents emerged early: a little princess had a five-year age confidently held in her hand brush and pencil. К ней приглашались учителя – известные в России художники: венценосные родители всячески поощряли увлечение их дочери живописью. To it were invited teachers - known in Russia Artists: crested parents encouraged the enthusiasm of their daughter's paintings. Ведь и Александр III неплохо рисовал в молодости, известны и тонкие пейзажные зарисовки императрицы Марии Федоровны. After all, Alexander III drew well in his youth, known and subtle landscape sketches of Empress Maria Feodorovna. Владели искусством живописи и дед великой княжны император Александр II, и прадед – Николай I, и прабабушка императрица Александра Фёдоровна. Mastered the art of painting and the great grandfather of Princess Emperor Alexander II, and great-grandfather - Nicholas I, and great-grandmother Empress Alexandra Feodorovna. Но лишь Ольге Александровне, единственной из Дома Романовых, судьба определила стать профессиональной художницей – “принцессой акварели”. But only Olga Alexandrovna, only one of the Romanov dynasty, the fate determined to become a professional artist - "Princess watercolors.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on December 13, 2009, 08:54:43 PM
Olga, Nikolai and sons

(http://i48.tinypic.com/o902ef.jpg)

Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 13, 2009, 09:54:03 PM
They don't look happy here.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: RealAnastasia on December 13, 2009, 10:37:53 PM
No, they don't...But maybe it's a bad photo. I remember some pics from my family albums in which my relatives has a miserable look..and when asking to them if they were sad at the moment of taking the photo they would answer: " Oh, no..Not at all. We were happy, but the photographer didn't warned us to be ready to the shotmug. We were caught by surprise" Or something similar. Without mentioning the pictures in which MYSELF loks as if I was hearing my own sentence of death... ;D

RealAnastasia.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: katmaxoz on December 14, 2009, 06:16:39 AM
Thanks for the correction since I cannot read the language.

I've found google translation a good way to navigate these russian language sites. It doesn't help with everything, but you do get more out of the text with it.

Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Arkhimago on February 02, 2010, 10:09:40 PM
I only just read Twobsbob's query re the exact location of where the Grand Duchess passed away, and I hope that I am not too late with this info?

There has been considerable confusion about this, which I would be delighted to clarify.
The specific address is 716 Gerrard Street East in Toronto. This was originally the left half of a mirror imaged semi-detached second Empire style house built in Toronto in the late 1800's. Sometime in the 1940's as the previously residiential Gerrard  Street became more commercialized, the owner removed the porches, and built out over the front yard to the sidewalk creating two storefronts on the main floor only, retaining the mansard roofed second floor master bedroom with a bay window overlooking the roof of this newer  addition.This feature is still clearly visible in the photos in "The Last Grand Duchess"  as well as in current Google Street Pics (or by simply standing across the street and looking up) The property and building are quite deep, and even with the front section converted to retail, it still left a lot of a space in the rear and above.

At the time of the Grand Duchess's passing in 1960, the left half (716) was still a Beauty Salon operated by the family who had looked after her, while the right half (718) was a barber shop. By the time Ian Vorres took the photograph featured in his book in 1964, the family had closed the salon (removing the signage) but remained living in the rather substantial attached residence until they sold the building in the late 1970's. Since then, the barber shop in the right half (718) has has, coincidentally, become a become a Beauty Salon, (which is what seems to be causing the confusion!) whereas the left side is now Dragonair Travel. The neighbourhood has changed in character and is now predominantly Korean. There was originally a secondary entrance into the residence and access to the rather handsome garden from the west side, but that is now gone, totally obliterated by a new commercial building. Grand Duchess Olga passed away in that upper front bedroom. Her bed was placed against the west wall, so that she was bathed in the autumn sunshine every day until the early afternoon coming in through the large bay window.

You also mentioned an interest in visiting HIH's burial place. It is very easy to get to and is approximately a ten minute walk from Sheppard subway station on the Yonge Street line in North York, a suburb of Toronto. Walk straight north from the subway exit on Yonge Street for three blocks to North York Blvd. Turn left and follow the road around the concert hall straight into the main entrance gates of the vast York Cemetery following the main allee. Keep walking west until you reach the massive war cenotaph in the middle of the avenue (and the cemetery). Turn right and walk a few hundred metres north where you will will see the huge stone cross marking her grave directly in front of you where the lane ends. It is so large that you can see the shadow it casts in the Google Maps image. There is a bronze plaque commemorating her superimposed over a bas-relief Imperial eagle, in front of it









Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Arkhimago on February 05, 2010, 08:02:54 PM
Actually Eric, You would probably find visiting her actual last home on Camilla Road even more interesting. It is as if it's frozen in time, yet for no apparent reason?

It was originally in the hamlet of Cooksville which was absorbed into the City of Mississauga adjacent to the western boundary of Toronto.  The original 1940's brick bungalow sat on an extra wide property, and since the area has become somewhat affluent now, the lots on either side of the house have been severed off, and are now built up with much larger homes. The only obvious difference is that the driveway which appears on the left side in the older photos is now on the right side of the house, and there is a sidewalk, curb and paved street in front where there used to be a country lane. I am quite surprised that with the current tax rates and land values that the house is still there and has not been been razed to be replaced by a "McMansion"?

Although it is now the smallest home on the street, it has quite strangely not been modernized, added to or altered in any manner whatsoever and yet it is meticulously maintained. Many of the trees and shrubs that the Grand Duchess planted are still there, especially in the rear garden, although the entire property is now kept quite well manicured as opposed to the wilder more natural look that she preferred. Interestingly enough also, her favourite garden center still exists directly across the street from the house which was a great way for her to indulge her gardening hobby as well as having an extra source of interesting flora to arrange as subjects for her water colours.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 05, 2010, 08:37:34 PM
Thanks ! I will bear that in mind. I always love to visit Toronto. So many Chinese people live there now and the food is excellent.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Arkhimago on February 05, 2010, 09:18:00 PM
Wow! Thats's the first time that I had ever heard of someone coming to Toronto for the Chinese food?? LOL There has been a thriving Chinatown here since the late 1800's so it is hardly a novelty and I never found the cuisine to be particularly outstanding? I would think that it would be much better in a Pacific seaport like Vancouver, Seattle or San Francisco? Now the Cambodian, Korean and Thai eateries springing up are way more interesting in their offerings. (We DO have some very fine Russian restaurants too!)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 05, 2010, 09:37:46 PM
Indeed. Before 1997, a lot of Chinese chiefs left Hong Kong for Canada. They came mostly to Vancouver & Taronto. That is why the Chinese food is so good. Best in North America I think.

Back to Olga. Too bad there is not a museum or plack on her life there.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: PAVLOV on February 10, 2010, 10:19:48 AM
I have read he Biography, but cannot remember exactly why and how she ended up in flat above the store.
Where were her family? How come they did not look after her ? Was she ill ?
Its very hard to imagine that the Tsars sister was so totally neglected by her own family. 
Very sad.
 
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 10, 2010, 01:51:02 PM
I think the family dispersed after they move to Canada with some members remain in Denmark. I read that Olga did not want to burden her family and lived alone. She was quite healthy until the last.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: PAVLOV on February 11, 2010, 05:55:47 AM
The most haunting images for me of Olga are the ones taken at Gatchina, on the staircase, and in the Chinese corridor. All that beauty and splendour, priviledge and wealth. And then to die above a store in a little room.

There is a lesson in all of this, as sad as it is. No matter how wealthy and priviledged you are, it can all be taken away in a flash. Nothing lasts forever.

I think she bore the trials and tribulations of her life with great fortitude.
She was also a very humble person, and I think she valued the simple things in life very much.

God bless her.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on February 11, 2010, 09:35:59 AM
i think exactly like you, PAvlov. I dont think that Olga lived a miserable life living like an ordinary person. She had the love of her life, son and grandkids beside her , I think that was quite enough for Olga,
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Sharon Chicago on February 23, 2010, 10:24:41 AM
I found this wonderful video series 1 of 5 Utube video's on the life of Grand Duchess Olga Alexnadrovana. It is very interesting and informative. I know you all will enjoy it, if you have not already seen it.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcSLB-WX8gw&feature=related 
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 23, 2010, 12:06:15 PM
Yes. It is a great video on Olga.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Nicolá De Valerón on March 22, 2010, 12:10:54 PM
GD Olga Alexandrovna as a Sister of Mercy and Major General of the HIM Suite and Commander of the 12th Cavalry Division Gustaf Carlovich Mannerheim in war lazaret. 1915.

(http://img2.imageshack.us/img2/8074/mannerheimolga.jpg) (http://img2.imageshack.us/i/mannerheimolga.jpg/)

* Photo is posted with the kind permission of an author from the archives of Vitaly Zhumenko, from the album "White Army. Photoportraits of Russian Officers 1917 - 1922", YMCA-PRESS, 2007, PARIS.
  (Фото размещено с любезного согласия автора из архива Виталия Жуменко, из альбома "Белая армия. Фотопортреты русских офицеров 1917 - 1922", YMCA-PRESS, 2007, PARIS.)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: kmerov on March 22, 2010, 06:22:19 PM
Grand Duke Mikhail and Grand Duchess Olga.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/IF%20of%20Russia/MikhailOlga.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Sharon Chicago on March 25, 2010, 08:47:36 AM
Great pictures .... Olga was so cute.... she resembled Tsar Nicholas ....   I was wondering are any of Olga's grandchildren still living in Toronto or Canada?  I loved her biography but am wondering where her grandchildren currently live.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 25, 2010, 09:18:32 AM
Actually Olga resembled her father more and that is why she was the favourite of Dagmar. Misha looked more towards the Danish side of the family.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Ena on March 25, 2010, 09:28:45 AM
Great pictures .... Olga was so cute.... she resembled Tsar Nicholas ....   I was wondering are any of Olga's grandchildren still living in Toronto or Canada?  I loved her biography but am wondering where her grandchildren currently live.
If you're on Facebook, Olga's granddaughter, Olga Kulikovsky Cordeiro, has a fan page on there called "Olga Kulikovsky Cordeiro, Granddaughter of Grandduchess Olga of Russia".  It looks like she's living in the Toronto area.  Olga A.'s great-grandson, Paul Kulikovsky, has a FB group devoted to his great-grandmother.  It's called the "Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna Appreciation Society".   

Both are open for any members of Facebook to join. :-)

Olga's also on Twitter:  http://twitter.com/coacholga
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Ena on March 25, 2010, 09:48:05 AM
Actually Olga resembled her father more and that is why she was the favourite of Dagmar. Misha looked more towards the Danish side of the family.
Just curious.  Where was it documented that Olga was Dagmar's favorite? I was under the assumption it was Xenia (although that's what I've gleaned off the forum).
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 25, 2010, 10:14:55 AM
I think it first came out from the Ian Vorres book. Xenia married early and that took her out of the favourite list. Dagmar held on to Misha & Olga more tightly after Sasha died.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: primrose on March 25, 2010, 06:39:23 PM
Actually Olga resembled her father more and that is why she was the favourite of Dagmar. Misha looked more towards the Danish side of the family.

I personally would like to see some documentation concerning this statement. Page 93, paragraph 3 in "Little Mother of Russia" by Coryne Hall indicates the opposite: "Olga would never have dreamed of going to Dagmar for comfort or  advice and she never felt at ease in her company. Dagmar was much closer to the elder children..."

And on page 185 when Dagmar decided it was time for Olga's debut she tried to dismiss Nana and appoint a lady-in-waiting: "The result was a terrible scene, with Olga threatening to run away." Nicholas took Olga's side, Dagmar was furious, and "the gulf between mother and daughter widened".

These are but two examples of the strained relations between Olga and her mother; this book and others carry many more. I don't believe that these threads are the appropriate place for 'throw-away, off-the-top-of-your-head' posts like this one. Most of us take these boards and this information seriously; if we're not professional writers and historians we are still here because we're fascinated by the subject and want to learn more. Your posts are so often nothing but litter... no substance, no style, no real information, but lots of indeed!, very nice, beautiful picture, etc.

As long as I am an active member of this community I shall call you on any posts I see that I know contain misinformation and ask for sources. It seems to me that it would be in your best interest to do your research before you post instead of lazily throwing out another bit of litter. Others have told you this over the years and you've paid no attention, but it would be nice to think that one day soon you could give your posting style serious consideration and begin to contribute in an adult manner.

  
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Ena on March 25, 2010, 07:30:08 PM
I think it first came out from the Ian Vorres book. Xenia married early and that took her out of the favourite list. Dagmar held on to Misha & Olga more tightly after Sasha died.
Vorres' book states otherwise.  On page 25 (2001 edition):
"The Grand Duchess admitted the existence of a gulf between her mother and herself....'as a matter of fact, going to her rooms was a duty laid on me by Nana.  I never felt at my ease. I tried to be on my best behavior. I could never bring myself to speak naturally. She had a horror of anything beyond the frontiers of etiquette and propriety'".
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Svetabel on March 26, 2010, 01:33:58 AM
Actually Olga resembled her father more and that is why she was the favourite of Dagmar. 

She never was a fave of Dagmar, according to all sources.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on March 26, 2010, 08:10:14 AM
i agree with Svetabel. I had that perception when i read Vorres`s book.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: kmerov on March 26, 2010, 08:46:37 AM
I don't think there is much doubt that for instance MF and GDss Xenia were much more alike, although I havn't read anything from MF stating who was her favorite. Many authors say that GD Mikhail was the favorite, but I think most of the children have been called so at one point or another.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 26, 2010, 11:59:10 AM
Yes. Especially she needed them (especially Floppy & Olga) after her husband's death. She meant to keep Olga unmarried like Toria to her sister Alexandra.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Ally Kumari on March 27, 2010, 06:30:13 AM
I don't think there is much doubt that for instance MF and GDss Xenia were much more alike, although I havn't read anything from MF stating who was her favorite. Many authors say that GD Mikhail was the favorite, but I think most of the children have been called so at one point or another.

In "Camera and the Tsars" is a short quote from one of Marie´s letters to her father:
"Little Misha is so sweet and affectionate and could almost be my favourite if I were not against making any difference. I love all of them alike, but each in his own way."
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 27, 2010, 10:58:46 AM
Yes. But like Alexandra, she had a firm hold on her children and when they began to marry (Xenia & Nicky), she tightened the parental crews on the rest (Olga & Misha).
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Arkhimago on March 30, 2010, 01:30:42 AM
Eric Lowe vaguely postulated in his last fascinating missive:
"But like Alexandra, she had a firm hold on her children and when they began to marry (Xenia & Nicky), she tightened the parental crews on the rest (Olga & Misha). "


Eric?

What exactly are "parental crews"?? I am relatively fluent in Russian and cannot think of a transliteration of your novel descriptor in that "yahzikh" either?

And being that she WAS a dowager empress, wouldn't the alleged "tightening" be a duty that would be delegated to a "mistress of the robes" or a handy footman??
Or, couldn't she have summarily despatched the "crews" from the Standart or her own yacht for this sacred duty requiring a "firm hold"?

Please advise accordingly? Enquiring minds want to know?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on March 30, 2010, 03:23:26 AM
I think Eric probably means 'parental screws'.

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 30, 2010, 01:17:48 PM
Yes. You know me and my misspellings so well.  :) It was tightening of the parental screws. The children were bought more closely into Minny's obit and allowed few freedoms. The classic case was Queen Victoria towards her youngest daughter Beatrice.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: primrose on March 30, 2010, 11:19:28 PM
"It was tightening of the parental screws. The children were bought more closely into Minny's obit..."

Minnie's OBIT??  She wasn't even dead!

Eric.... please do us all a favor and get yourself a good dictionary, keep it next to your computer and USE it!
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Margot on March 31, 2010, 02:09:43 AM
Actually Olga resembled her father more and that is why she was the favourite of Dagmar. Misha looked more towards the Danish side of the family.

I personally would like to see some documentation concerning this statement. Page 93, paragraph 3 in "Little Mother of Russia" by Coryne Hall indicates the opposite: "Olga would never have dreamed of going to Dagmar for comfort or  advice and she never felt at ease in her company. Dagmar was much closer to the elder children..."

And on page 185 when Dagmar decided it was time for Olga's debut she tried to dismiss Nana and appoint a lady-in-waiting: "The result was a terrible scene, with Olga threatening to run away." Nicholas took Olga's side, Dagmar was furious, and "the gulf between mother and daughter widened".

These are but two examples of the strained relations between Olga and her mother; this book and others carry many more. I don't believe that these threads are the appropriate place for 'throw-away, off-the-top-of-your-head' posts like this one. Most of us take these boards and this information seriously; if we're not professional writers and historians we are still here because we're fascinated by the subject and want to learn more. Your posts are so often nothing but litter... no substance, no style, no real information, but lots of indeed!, very nice, beautiful picture, etc.

As long as I am an active member of this community I shall call you on any posts I see that I know contain misinformation and ask for sources. It seems to me that it would be in your best interest to do your research before you post instead of lazily throwing out another bit of litter. Others have told you this over the years and you've paid no attention, but it would be nice to think that one day soon you could give your posting style serious consideration and begin to contribute in an adult manner.

  

Absolutely beautifully put Primrose! Bravo!

And the 'Obit' post is just another example of shoddy disregard for others as well as of pollutant laziness too!!!!
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 31, 2010, 04:46:55 PM
The quote that she was favourite came from the Ian Vorres book. The fact that Olga had tiffs with her mother did not make her less a favourite in her eyes. Interesting if you investigate further in the "Nana" (aka Miss. Franklin) case, you would understand that Minny tried to fire her because she felt Olga was too devoted to her old nurse and was jealous. Would Minny took the trouble if she wasn't that attached to her daughter ? In fact if you read Charlotte Zeepvat's excellent nanny book "From Cradle to Throne", Miechen did the same thing to her daughter Elena, when she discovered that the governess Miss Fox had not only her granddaughters affection but also her daughter's confidence. She fired the governess much to the distress of her daughter's family.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Ena on March 31, 2010, 08:48:37 PM
The quote that she was favourite came from the Ian Vorres book. The fact that Olga had tiffs with her mother did not make her less a favourite in her eyes. Interesting if you investigate further in the "Nana" (aka Miss. Franklin) case, you would understand that Minny tried to fire her because she felt Olga was too devoted to her old nurse and was jealous. Would Minny took the trouble if she wasn't that attached to her daughter ? In fact if you read Charlotte Zeepvat's excellent nanny book "From Cradle to Throne", Miechen did the same thing to her daughter Elena, when she discovered that the governess Miss Fox had not only her granddaughters affection but also her daughter's confidence. She fired the governess much to the distress of her daughter's family.
Nowhere in Vorres' book does it say that Olga was her mother's favorite.  On page 28 (2001 edition) it clearly states that Xenia was her mother's favorite.  It's even in the index, on page 260 under the heading Xenia, Grand Duchess - "mother's favourite, 28".  

The points you illustrate - MF's treatment of Miss Franklin and Miechen's treatment of Miss Fox - display extreme selfishness and insecurity, not attachment.   
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 31, 2010, 09:16:28 PM
I think pocessiveness is a better term.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Ena on March 31, 2010, 09:50:13 PM
I think pocessiveness is a better term.
True, which is born out of insecurity.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: ashdean on April 01, 2010, 03:07:19 PM
Actually Olga resembled her father more and that is why she was the favourite of Dagmar. Misha looked more towards the Danish side of the family.

As long as I am an active member of this community I shall call you on any posts I see that I know contain misinformation and ask for sources. It seems to me that it would be in your best interest to do your research before you post instead of lazily throwing out another bit of litter. Others have told you this over the years and you've paid no attention, but it would be nice to think that one day soon you could give your posting style serious consideration and begin to contribute in an adult manner.

  
Bravo primrose....may you stay an active member of these boards for a very long time!
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: primrose on April 01, 2010, 03:32:58 PM
Thank you Ashdean!

I shall try my best ;D

primrose
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Margot on April 01, 2010, 03:33:54 PM
The quote that she was favourite came from the Ian Vorres book. The fact that Olga had tiffs with her mother did not make her less a favourite in her eyes. Interesting if you investigate further in the "Nana" (aka Miss. Franklin) case, you would understand that Minny tried to fire her because she felt Olga was too devoted to her old nurse and was jealous. Would Minny took the trouble if she wasn't that attached to her daughter ? In fact if you read Charlotte Zeepvat's excellent nanny book "From Cradle to Throne", Miechen did the same thing to her daughter Elena, when she discovered that the governess Miss Fox had not only her granddaughters affection but also her daughter's confidence. She fired the governess much to the distress of her daughter's family.
Nowhere in Vorres' book does it say that Olga was her mother's favorite.  On page 28 (2001 edition) it clearly states that Xenia was her mother's favorite.  It's even in the index, on page 260 under the heading Xenia, Grand Duchess - "mother's favourite, 28".  

Thank you so much Ena for checking! It just show's that author can't even get the facts right when quoting sources directly from books! I am hardly surprised!!!! You are an poppet Ena for verifying...thank you! Primrose I will be a humble and loyal admirer of your worthy crusade!!
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Sharon Chicago on April 29, 2010, 07:43:39 AM
Alixz...Yes, Olga and Eleanor Roosevelt do look very much alike and I also use to work with Ann Roosevelt, Eleanor's
granddaughter and she looks so much like Eleanor.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Sharon Chicago on April 29, 2010, 07:50:36 AM
Katmaxoz... What a wonderful picture of Olga and her husband in her later years...they both look regal to me still.  I really like her after reading her two biography books on her life.  She does look so much like her brother the Tsar Nicholas.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Sharon Chicago on April 29, 2010, 08:05:07 AM
Katenka...Thanks much for the family photo.  None are smiling though.... I think the boys look like their father more than
they look like Olga.  Think she must have been a very sweet loving person.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Sharon Chicago on April 29, 2010, 08:11:27 AM
Arkimargo... What are the names of the Russian Restaurants in Toronto?  I have recently retired and live in the midwest. I might
just drive up there. I had been to Toronto years ago on business trip for a week.

I would love to trace the steps of Olga's life in Canada.  I so enjoyed reading her two biography's and she seems like such a
jewel of a lady.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Sharon Chicago on April 29, 2010, 08:13:12 AM
Pavlov.... Very well said...
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Sharon Chicago on April 29, 2010, 08:28:12 AM
Ena...thank you so much for the FB update on Grand Duchess Olga's grandchildren. I went on FB and joined :o)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eddie_uk on April 29, 2010, 03:41:49 PM
Bravo primrose!! For the sake of others, as well as historical accuracy of course, correcting EL has been an ongoing crusade of mine for years. So glad to see others doing the same. We must all join together & never give up!!!
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Constantinople on May 01, 2010, 09:11:18 AM
Paul Kulikovsky recently commemorated a memorial to the place that GD Olga Alexandrovna stayed with her mother's cossack bodyguard.  The house is gone but Paul visited the site of the house and the descendants of the cossack body guard.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Constantinople on May 01, 2010, 09:35:36 AM
The cossack body guard to both Tsar Nicholas ll and his mother was Timofei Xenofontovich Jaschik and the village was Novominskaya.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Constantinople on May 01, 2010, 12:51:40 PM
At least one of Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna's grandchildren live in Canada but not in Toronto, some of her great grandchildren live in Denmark and one has moved back to Russia.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: cebi26 on May 01, 2010, 03:15:07 PM
It is said that the GD Olga was the last Grand Duchess of Imperial Russia, but who was the last Grand Duchess born under Imperial Russia? Was GD Anastasia?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Constantinople on May 01, 2010, 04:17:45 PM
i think that some of the children of Grand dukes were born just before the revolution.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on May 01, 2010, 10:46:09 PM
i think that some of the children of Grand dukes were born just before the revolution.

But were they Grand Dukes/Duchesses, or Princes/Princesses?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Constantinople on May 02, 2010, 12:25:25 AM
I think that some of Tsar Alexander's children had children in this period but i am not sure.  All the others would have only produced Princes.  But i am not sure of the details.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Svetabel on May 02, 2010, 12:56:04 AM
It is said that the GD Olga was the last Grand Duchess of Imperial Russia, but who was the last Grand Duchess born under Imperial Russia? Was GD Anastasia?

Yes,GDss Anastasia.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Carisbrooke on May 04, 2010, 01:48:53 AM
  Lots of Olga stuff for sale keeps appearing on the net these days, its all supposedly from the BYINGTON COLLECTION. I can't seem to find out much about them, is it all kosher ?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Constantinople on May 04, 2010, 04:34:20 AM
İ can ask a member of the family. İt may take some time for a reply though.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: mcdnab on May 04, 2010, 10:07:29 AM
The last member of the House to be born a Grand Duchess was Anastasia in 1901. All the other daughters of the Imperial family were great grandchildren of a Tsar therefore were Princesses of Russia (including Maria Kirillovna and Kira Kirillovna who were later styled Grand Duchess after their father's assumption of the Imperial titles).

Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on June 17, 2010, 08:38:01 AM
Olga, her first husband and a lady i cant recognice. Maybe a relative of Peter?

(http://i48.tinypic.com/30dcrci.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Olgasha on June 30, 2010, 03:56:29 AM
Olga
(http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/2137/b8629r.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: PAVLOV on June 30, 2010, 08:13:13 AM
I wonder where the one in the garden was taken ? I love the Chinese porcelain seats in the background. I wonder if it was Gatchina ? Or perhaps in the Crimea ?
Do you know ?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 30, 2010, 12:56:20 PM
From the date it could be Gatchina.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on July 07, 2010, 09:18:08 AM
Olga and family press image

(http://i50.tinypic.com/21999ty.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 07, 2010, 11:51:51 AM
Did you bought that ? :-)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on July 07, 2010, 11:52:40 AM
No, i have no money to bid for that one even tho it isnt that expensive. If someone wants the link to bid for it, just ask and i will send via PM
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Svetabel on July 08, 2010, 12:07:59 AM
That little girl in the Olga's family picture, her granddaughter Xenia, once told in her interview about Olga's cooking. She said that her grandmother was quite different from ordinary grandmothers of her friends, as Olga couldn't cook and never create any sweets and such like as many other grandmothers. And this amazed little Xenia much.Once Olga tried to boil a chicken and that was a disaster.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on July 08, 2010, 02:20:43 AM
Olga was not the only grandmother who couldn't cook. Mine couldn't either! Her parents had a cook in the house and she then married a man who had cooked for lumberjacks  in his wild days in British Columbia.

The story goes that the cook, a Yorkshire woman named Mrs Turner, had once been a junior cook at Tranby Croft, scene of the notorious baccarat scandal, and she had been summoned from the kitchen to be complimented by the future Edward VII on her Yorkshire pudding. Working for my great-grandparents must have been a bit of a comedown. As I understand it, my great-grandmother worked for a time as a governess in a rather less elevated establishment, and when she left to get married, Mrs Turner went with her.

My grandmother did have other talents, however. She was a high-calibre pianist and could always be persuaded to play, though she had no illusions about my musical abilities, and told my mother in no uncertain terms when I was quite small that I had no ear.

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Svetabel on July 08, 2010, 03:24:03 AM
Olga was not the only grandmother who couldn't cook. Mine couldn't either! Her parents had a cook in the house and she then married a man who had cooked for lumberjacks  in his wild days in British Columbia.




I mentioned the Olga's "cooking" as Xenia was telling that story very emotionally (TV-interview) and seemed even now she is much impressed with that episode with chicken.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on July 08, 2010, 06:47:05 AM
Ksenia is the one who looks  A LOT like Maria Nicholaevna!. She was a cute girl. I d love to see current pictures of her!
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 08, 2010, 09:17:08 AM
Yes. it is sad we see so few photos of Olga's family and extended family (grandchildren).
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: lilianna on July 14, 2010, 04:20:06 PM

Olga at the Cameron Gallery in Tsarskoe Selo. 1905.
(http://s003.radikal.ru/i202/1007/91/4cb594d6112ct.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/F/s003.radikal.ru/i202/1007/91/4cb594d6112c.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: lilianna on July 14, 2010, 04:30:32 PM

Olga at the Cameron Gallery in Tsarskoe Selo. 1905.
(http://s59.radikal.ru/i164/1007/ce/efe24e4e933bt.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/F/s59.radikal.ru/i164/1007/ce/efe24e4e933b.jpg.html)
(http://i070.radikal.ru/1007/d7/88422ab008eet.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/F/i070.radikal.ru/1007/d7/88422ab008ee.jpg.html)
(http://s43.radikal.ru/i099/1007/4e/531b1f614ed6t.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/F/s43.radikal.ru/i099/1007/4e/531b1f614ed6.jpg.html)

Olga in Gatchina.1900 year.
(http://s54.radikal.ru/i146/1007/3c/b93aeda296c4t.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/F/s54.radikal.ru/i146/1007/3c/b93aeda296c4.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Constantinople on July 14, 2010, 04:38:43 PM
the Cameron gallery has the most interesting staircase.  I got some pictures from one of Olga's descendants of a gala that was held at Tsarskoe Selo.  Some of the dinner was held in the Cameron Gallery.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: lilianna on July 14, 2010, 07:46:15 PM
The Nazis destroyed everything in Tsarskoe Selo. Cameron's gallery restored. After the war the town was 250 people.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Olgasha on July 18, 2010, 01:50:49 PM
Olga with aunt Olga - Olga Konstantinovna, Queen of Greece
(http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/7328/olgaciociaolga.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Olgasha on August 13, 2010, 01:19:44 PM
Olga in Denmark, with children of her uncle Prince Waldemar
(http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/2287/olgawdanii.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 13, 2010, 01:26:03 PM
Quite a rare picture.Thanks for posting it. Did Olga remained close to her cousins when she lived in Bellerup ?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Olgasha on August 14, 2010, 03:23:27 PM
Olga with husband and sons Tichon and Guri
(http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/1757/olga1845b9bae1e7.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: kmerov on August 14, 2010, 06:10:51 PM
Quite a rare picture.Thanks for posting it. Did Olga remained close to her cousins when she lived in Bellerup ?

Yes, I think she was quite close with Prince Valdemars family when she lived in Denmark, especially Prince and Princess Viggo.
 (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/kmerov/IF%20of%20Russia/Storfyrstinde_Olga.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Olgasha on September 02, 2010, 04:14:55 AM
Olga as a nurse
(http://sammler.ru/uploads/post-81-1111913786.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Condecontessa on September 02, 2010, 06:31:45 PM
She's wearing a medal!!!!! What is it about?

Thanks Katenka for posting a bigger clearer version.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on September 02, 2010, 07:03:57 PM
Actually, the credits goes to Olgasha ;-D
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Nicolá De Valerón on September 03, 2010, 10:17:24 AM
She's wearing a medal!!!!! What is it about?

Thanks Katenka for posting a bigger clearer version.

Olga is wearing here St. George medal (equivalent to Order of St. George, but for non-military). She was awarded in 1915 for huge bravery by her good friend General Baron Mannerheim (she helped wounded soldiers in trenches during cross-fire). Btw, Olga was the chief of Achtyr Hussar's Regiment, which was the part of Mannerheim's 12th Cavalry Division.

Here it is:
(http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/4643/4stv.jpg) (http://img64.imageshack.us/i/4stv.jpg/)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on September 03, 2010, 09:44:20 PM
I really would have loved to meet her.  She seemed like such a wonderful person.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on September 05, 2010, 02:32:37 PM
(http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/1997/81932364.jpg) (http://img259.imageshack.us/i/81932364.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: RealAnastasia on September 05, 2010, 11:49:01 PM
Totally new for me! She looks almost beatiful here...

RealAnastasia
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 06, 2010, 01:22:23 PM
Yes. It was from the same photo session with Peter...No wonder she was sad.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: bednayaliza on September 11, 2010, 05:33:52 AM
(http://s004.radikal.ru/i205/1009/48/b7408712445bt.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/F/s004.radikal.ru/i205/1009/48/b7408712445b.jpg.html)


(http://s53.radikal.ru/i141/1009/96/41e9a4b4eec8t.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/F/s53.radikal.ru/i141/1009/96/41e9a4b4eec8.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on September 11, 2010, 07:50:17 AM
Blurry Olga

(http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/1290/s640x4808.jpg) (http://img29.imageshack.us/i/s640x4808.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: katmaxoz on September 11, 2010, 08:14:37 AM
some postcards painted by Olga. At various times, both before WWI and after Olga painted postcards for sale for charity.

(http://i55.tinypic.com/4vld9s.jpg)

(http://i54.tinypic.com/205xjwp.jpg)

(http://i52.tinypic.com/2k1yro.jpg)

(http://i52.tinypic.com/2ev6r0k.jpg)

Olga painting

(http://i52.tinypic.com/15oj8yt.jpg)

Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: bednayaliza on September 11, 2010, 08:17:43 AM
Thank you Katmaxos! The pictures are amazing!!!
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Olgasha on September 18, 2010, 02:45:04 PM
Olga Alexandrovna
(http://www.argyll-etkin.co.uk/images/COVER0810s.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 18, 2010, 05:31:35 PM
Olga looked very lady like even though she was no beauty.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: katmaxoz on September 18, 2010, 06:16:32 PM
That looks like a new version of the portrait session that was done with her first husband. I've always liked the pearl necklaces she wore with this dress. Olga seemed to prefer pearls, much like Alexandra and I wonder if that liking was picked up from her when she was a child.

Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: cherbourg on September 20, 2010, 02:42:39 AM
Hy,
I would like to know: where is the graves of Yuri Kulikovsky (1984)?
Thanks
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 20, 2010, 02:50:39 PM
Pearls goes well with simple clothing and clean lines. It goes well with jackets too...
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Arkhimago on September 21, 2010, 12:39:26 PM
It is not "Yuri" but rather Guri, and he is buried in a small town in eastern Ontario, where he lived until 1984, with his last wife Helen, who is still apparently still living.
Tikhon, along with his second wife Livia are both interred at York Cemetery in Toronto with his parents.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: PAVLOV on September 22, 2010, 09:21:46 AM
Yes not a beauty, but certainly, with her brother Michael , the most well adjusted and "nicest" member of the Romanov family I think.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 22, 2010, 09:41:27 AM
Olga was the straight talk person and really friendly one in the family.  :)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: ashanti01 on September 22, 2010, 04:18:45 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/gdolgapeter-1.jpg)
GD Olga with her first husband Peter of Oldenburg
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: bonbon823 on September 22, 2010, 05:27:07 PM
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/gdolgapeter-1.jpg (http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/gdolgapeter-1.jpg)
GD Olga with her first husband Peter of Oldenburg

Love this picture--Olga looks like she's about to crack up, whereas Peter looks "not amused"
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Douglas on September 22, 2010, 05:44:57 PM


Love this picture--Olga looks like she's about to crack up, whereas Peter looks "not amused"

This photo was taken on board Polar Star.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 23, 2010, 10:43:10 AM
I wonder what happen to Peter of Oldenburg after the revolution ?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: susana on September 27, 2010, 12:11:35 AM

Re: the sisterly relationship between Xenia and Olga; first there was an age difference so that Olga and Michael were like a second family. And post revolution there has always been scandalous gossip that Xenia did Olga out of her fair share of their mother's jewelry. Certainly King George favored Xenia and she saw them first; Olga later said something to the effect that she didn't wish to cause a family problem over the division of the jewels.
Regards to all--
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 27, 2010, 11:15:04 AM
Olga did not get her share of the money until years later. The failure of the British Royal Family to fairly distrubute the money (Xenia got hers years early) led to speculation that Queen mary got the jewels at knock down prices and swindled out of paying Olga. I read the Queen had to fork out money from her coffers to repay Olga years later.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Olgasha on October 01, 2010, 06:23:30 AM
(http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/8728/garf15.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 01, 2010, 01:08:35 PM
Olga on Standart or Polar Star ?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Olgasha on October 01, 2010, 03:37:32 PM
I would say it's  Standart.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Olgasha on October 02, 2010, 10:59:54 AM
Olga's first husband - Duke Peter of Oldenburg
(http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/8691/garf63.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: ashanti01 on October 02, 2010, 01:42:28 PM
That is perhaps one of the best photos of Peter I have ever seen. He doesn't look so frail or stiff, just relaxed and healthy.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 03, 2010, 03:04:41 PM
Yes. I think he is having coffee (or tea ?). Where did you locate this photo ?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: ashanti01 on October 03, 2010, 10:50:24 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/042.jpg)
Olga with her niece GD Olga
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Olgasha on October 04, 2010, 04:57:11 AM
..and with both -Olga and Tatiana
(http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/3964/garf25.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on October 10, 2010, 12:25:11 PM
Tikhon and Guri. 1940s.

(http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/4829/thikonyuri.jpg) (http://img169.imageshack.us/i/thikonyuri.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on October 16, 2010, 06:40:39 PM
Olga and a wounded soldier. Circa 1916

(http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/9102/zoom3ms8.jpg) (http://img401.imageshack.us/i/zoom3ms8.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Olgasha on October 17, 2010, 03:05:29 AM
(http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/1420/olgah.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on October 24, 2010, 06:57:56 AM
Olga as a nurse with brother Nicholas and sister Ksenia

(http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/876/ae546.jpg) (http://img176.imageshack.us/i/ae546.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Lucien on November 26, 2010, 12:47:56 AM
November 24th,it was 50 years to the day that HIH Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrowna,Mrs. Kulikowski died.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Olgasha on November 26, 2010, 05:08:24 AM
Olga as a nurse with brother Nicholas and sister Ksenia

(http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/876/ae546.jpg) (http://img176.imageshack.us/i/ae546.jpg/)

 

If I remember correctly it was that family meeting in Kiev, right?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Miek on November 26, 2010, 07:34:56 AM
Unprecedented Discovery of Imperial Correspondence To go Under the Hammer in Geneva December 2010.
GD Olga letters and photos too: More info, Royal Russia:  http://www.angelfire.com/pa/ImperialRussian/news/230news.html (http://www.angelfire.com/pa/ImperialRussian/news/230news.html)

miek
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 27, 2010, 08:36:44 AM
Interesting. Maybe Arturo Beeche can go bid for it. A new book of letters could come out of it maybe ?  :D
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Olgasha on December 10, 2010, 03:35:23 AM
Olga with sons
(http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/238/olgazzsynkami.png)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 10, 2010, 01:52:00 PM
They seemed to be very close to in age.  ;)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: grandduchessella on December 10, 2010, 02:14:16 PM
Less than 2 years:

ikhon Koulikovsky b. 25 Aug 1917
Gouri Kulikovsky b. 23 Apr 1919
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 10, 2010, 02:49:29 PM
No wonder they look like twins.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on December 10, 2010, 09:22:29 PM
It amazes me the conditions under which they were born.  Revolution babies, both of them - born "on the run", barely enough to sustain any of them (including their parents) through life...and yet, there they were. 
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on December 11, 2010, 12:21:37 PM
Tikhon was also a honeymoon baby - born almost exactly nine months after his parents' wedding.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on December 11, 2010, 10:46:12 PM
I'd noticed that too.  : )  Although there certainly wasn't a "honeymoon" to speak of.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on December 12, 2010, 05:54:07 AM
Well, Olga and Nikolai Koulikovsky were in love, and there wasn't much in the way of reliable contraception in those days.

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Olgasha on December 12, 2010, 06:07:03 AM
Olga with husband
(http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/5025/40003692.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 12, 2010, 12:34:53 PM
Taken in Canada ?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Laura Mabee on December 12, 2010, 01:08:00 PM
Yes Eric, I believe so.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 12, 2010, 01:27:33 PM
Thanks, I think so too. I believe in Cooksville ?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on December 13, 2010, 08:07:11 PM
I really know very little about Col Kulikovsky.  I know he received injuries during WWI that plagued him for the rest of his life.  What was the extent of those injuries?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on December 13, 2010, 08:08:54 PM
Well, Olga and Nikolai Koulikovsky were in love, and there wasn't much in the way of reliable contraception in those days.

Ann

That's true, and that's why I get a little defensive when I read that they had an "affair" while she was married to Peter of Oldenburg.  That implies an illicit sexual relationship, and that couldn't have happened.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on December 14, 2010, 03:13:53 AM
'That implies an illicit sexual relationship, and that couldn't have happened.'

What makes you say it COULDN'T have happened? I don't think it did, but that's not quite the same thing.

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Olgasha on December 14, 2010, 06:31:29 AM
Well, Olga and Nikolai Koulikovsky were in love, and there wasn't much in the way of reliable contraception in those days.

Ann

 That implies an illicit sexual relationship, and that couldn't have happened.

Well, I think IT COULD HAVE happened, and I think Olga and N. Kulikovsky had that kind of affair.
Let's be realistic, they both were not a kids.

If we're talking about that their first son was a honeymoon baby cause 'there wasn't much in the way of reliable contraception in those days' - in one of her letters to Kulikovsky (after or just before their wedding) happy Olga wrote to him that finally they can have a children, their own children.

So for me it's rather clear that they both wanted to have a child/children even earlier, but since Olga was married with Peter of Oldenburg, they just couldn't.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on December 14, 2010, 08:34:34 AM
Vorres said it best in his biography - what would have happened had she become pregnant with Nikolai's child?  Without reliable contraception, that was a chance that couldn't be taken.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on December 14, 2010, 08:58:58 AM
'If we're talking about that their first son was a honeymoon baby cause 'there wasn't much in the way of reliable contraception in those days' - in one of her letters to Kulikovsky (after or just before their wedding) happy Olga wrote to him that finally they can have a children, their own children.'

The letter doesn't really prove anything except that they wanted children. It doesn't tell us that they were sleeping together (and using contraception) before they married. I'm inclined to think that they didn't sleep together before they married but I will cheerfully admit that I have no proof. I do think Tikhon's arrival nine months after the wedding supports this theory. Olga and Nikolai Koulikovsky were obviously a highly fertile combination (for all that Olga was 34 when they married), so the chances of avoiding a pregnancy if they had been having an affair over several years seem quite low. Admittedly, there was then a 20-month gap between Tikhon and Guri, and no more after Guri.

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Olgasha on December 14, 2010, 09:05:14 AM
Vorres said it best in his biography

Yes, but actually it's not Vorres who said that, I mean I think  it was said by Olga herself.
And well...I would not expect that she told him in details about her affair with Kulikovsky.

There were some methods of contraception in those days, of course less or more effective. There is something about this in the "Michael & Natasha" by Crawfords.

****
Besides - we are not talking about the children, but about the woman and man, madly in love with each other. For years they spent a lot of time together, they were both normal and healthy in every respect.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on December 14, 2010, 09:30:02 AM
She was made of strong stuff.  So was he, having fought in and survived the war.  I admire both of them.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on December 14, 2010, 09:39:20 AM
'She was made of strong stuff.  So was he, having fought in and survived the war.  I admire both of them.'

I do too. In fact, they are my favourite Romanovs, because they were down to earth and sensible, and came through a whole lot together (and Nikolai Koulkovsky was very handsome!)

How did Tikhon and Guri turn out in the end?

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 14, 2010, 04:52:15 PM
Olga was always very open and honest even though she did seemed a bit murky into the Anna Anderson affair. I think she dithered from one thought to the other and never completely sure if she wasn't...
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on December 14, 2010, 08:42:40 PM
Olga was always very open and honest even though she did seemed a bit murky into the Anna Anderson affair. I think she dithered from one thought to the other and never completely sure if she wasn't...

I"m not really convinced of her insistence (in Vorres' biography, again) that she knew all along Anna Anderson couldn't have been Anastasia.  I can only imagine how she would have hoped that she was!  Olga can hardly be blamed for that.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on December 14, 2010, 08:45:02 PM
'She was made of strong stuff.  So was he, having fought in and survived the war.  I admire both of them.'

I do too. In fact, they are my favourite Romanovs, because they were down to earth and sensible, and came through a whole lot together (and Nikolai Koulkovsky was very handsome!)

How did Tikhon and Guri turn out in the end?

Ann

That's a good question.  I'm not sure.  I know they both were married more than once, and one of them (Tikhon, I do believe) was married three times.  But as to what they did for a living, what sort of lives they led, I don't know.  Most of what I read about Olga doesn't delve much into either them or Nikolai. 
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 15, 2010, 01:48:50 PM
I think there is a book on Tikhon called "Nephew to the Tsar". You can buy it on Majesty Magazine or online...
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on December 16, 2010, 03:44:49 AM
I think 'murky' is the wrong word to describe Olga's role in the Anna Anderson affair, as that implies some untruthfulness. I think she was almost 100% certain that she was a fraud, but there was an element of 'But what if she isn't?' In all the circumstances, and given that there was no DNA until much later, that isn't surprisinglly.

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: LisaDavidson on December 16, 2010, 10:17:47 AM
Olga was always very open and honest even though she did seemed a bit murky into the Anna Anderson affair. I think she dithered from one thought to the other and never completely sure if she wasn't...

Olga was a lovely person, of that I am convinced. But always honest? Few of us make it through life without a well meant rationalization or fib or two.

In Olga's case, I don't think she was honest about her relationship with Kuliikovsky in her talks with Vorres. This was an affair (as defined as a romantic attachment to a non spouse) of many years standing even if they did not "do the deed" and at the very least she minimizes it, which is not honest. I also think she does not say how conflicted her meeting with AA made her feel - which while short of a recognition is nonetheless not a clear denial.

Neither of these things makes her less than a lovely human, but it's certainly not "open and honest". It's totally normal that she did not fully disclose the affair or her ambivalence, but let's not invest this admirable woman with characteristics she lacked. She herself might be the first to object to that.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: grandduchessella on December 16, 2010, 04:42:06 PM
'If we're talking about that their first son was a honeymoon baby cause 'there wasn't much in the way of reliable contraception in those days' - in one of her letters to Kulikovsky (after or just before their wedding) happy Olga wrote to him that finally they can have a children, their own children.'

The letter doesn't really prove anything except that they wanted children. It doesn't tell us that they were sleeping together (and using contraception) before they married. I'm inclined to think that they didn't sleep together before they married but I will cheerfully admit that I have no proof. I do think Tikhon's arrival nine months after the wedding supports this theory. Olga and Nikolai Koulikovsky were obviously a highly fertile combination (for all that Olga was 34 when they married), so the chances of avoiding a pregnancy if they had been having an affair over several years seem quite low. Admittedly, there was then a 20-month gap between Tikhon and Guri, and no more after Guri.

Ann

Olga was about 34 when she was married to Kulikovsky. It's surprising she got pregnant so fast but there might have been an element of 'no time to waste'. Her age (not to mention the war) could explain the gap between the boys (which actually is pretty small and again goes to not wasting time) and then why there were no more afterwards. Even today, that's considered 'advanced maternal age'.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on December 16, 2010, 05:10:33 PM
Olga and kids

(http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/8350/29453444.jpg) (http://img3.imageshack.us/i/29453444.jpg/)
 
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on December 17, 2010, 03:33:45 AM
Honeymoon babies used not to be all that unusual. I am one!

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 17, 2010, 05:05:51 PM
Were they photographed in Germany ?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on January 16, 2011, 08:44:09 PM
How many languages did Olga actually speak?  I would assume Russian, English, Danish (since she lived there), German and French.  Were there others?  Was she fluent in all those languages?  Also, I wonder about the sound of her voice.  Did she have an accent at all?  Especially when she spoke English. 
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 17, 2011, 06:43:31 PM
Her Russian was pretty poor as Marie Coburg found out. Dagmar did not teach her daughter this language until she was much older...
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on January 17, 2011, 08:51:34 PM
Her father never spoke Russian with her?

Where did Marie Coburg comment on Olga Alexandrovna's Russian?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Belochka on January 17, 2011, 10:01:29 PM
Her Russian was pretty poor as Marie Coburg found out. Dagmar did not teach her daughter this language until she was much older...

What utter nonsense. Alexander III ALWAYS spoke Russian with his children.

Mariya Fyodorovna spoke to them in French because it was her Russian that was far from being proficient.

These details will be found (with a reference) in my biographic study of Alexander III, which should appear later this year.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on January 17, 2011, 10:15:35 PM
Her Russian was pretty poor as Marie Coburg found out. Dagmar did not teach her daughter this language until she was much older...

What utter nonsense. Alexander III ALWAYS spoke Russian with his children.

Mariya Fyodorovna spoke to them in French because it was her Russian that was far from being proficient.

These details will be found (with a reference) in my biographic study of Alexander III, which should appear later this year.

That's what I thought.  Thank you, Margarita.  : )  I know French was the official Court language, but to my knowledge, the family (whether it be Alexander III's or Nicholas II's) spoke Russian with each other.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 19, 2011, 04:25:53 PM
That is what I said. Marie Coburg found out that Olga's Russian was "not as good" as it should be. Minny admitted that she did not spoke it with her. One must also remember that Alexander III did not see Olga every day as you can detect from her memoirs with Ian Vorres. Remember I am NOT saying that Olga did not know Russian. Frequency is so important. For example Nicholas II 's three elder daughters Olga, Tatiana and Marie knew English much better than Anastasia or Alexis because they had a British Nanny, something that was denied the two younger children. As a result, even though they had a English tutor (Sydney Gibbs), their level cannot compare with the older girls who learnt it in the nursery.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on January 19, 2011, 07:58:45 PM
I still would like to know where it is written that Marie Coburg even had an opinion on the quality of Olga Alexandrovna's Russian.

At any rate, she (and most other royals of the time) spoke several languages.  I'd love to know what her voice sounded like.  I wonder if she would have had a Russian accent when she spoke English.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Olgasha on January 24, 2011, 05:00:28 AM
(http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/315/olgazpsem.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on January 24, 2011, 08:27:11 AM
She might not have been "beautiful" in the conventional sense of the time, but there was something very soulful about her face.  Like there was a lot going on behind her eyes.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: RealAnastasia on January 24, 2011, 10:53:23 PM
Yes. A truly sweet and sensitive person. And when she was young, she was if not a classical beauty, at least a pretty girl.

RealAnastasia.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on January 30, 2011, 09:45:59 PM
Has anyone seen this website?  http://www.hoover.org/multimedia/slide-shows/58536  It contains two letters, in English, from the GD to a Major George H. Ryden, an American aid worker who helped her and her family get out of the Crimea in 1919.

http://www.hoover.org/library-and-archives/acquisitions/58521
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on April 14, 2011, 10:45:39 PM
Some pictures of Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna and her family I hadn't seen before:

Book cover, the Danish edition of "25 Chapters of My Life".  I'm sure she's expectant in this photo.
(http://i917.photobucket.com/albums/ad20/yvettecowe/Romanov%20Photos/9788711227428_fs.jpg)


Found this on Romanov Russia.  If you look really closely at the right hand side of the picture, you'll see Grand Duchess Olga and Col Kulikovsky are holding hands.  : )
(http://i917.photobucket.com/albums/ad20/yvettecowe/Romanov%20Photos/olgaph.jpg)


Here's the closeup, meant to show Col Kulikovsky's signature, but also how their hands are positioned.  Just lovely.  : )
(http://i917.photobucket.com/albums/ad20/yvettecowe/Romanov%20Photos/olgap2.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on April 14, 2011, 10:46:58 PM
Figured it out!  : )
Title: Last time Olga A. saw Otma
Post by: Sunny on April 22, 2011, 03:02:41 PM
hello everyone,
first of all i hope this' the right place for this topic; if it's not, I beg you pardon, mods!   :)
I've looked for this info in the net and in my Romanovs books, but found it anywhere.
Do you know which was the last tima Olga A saw Otma? I mean the last time she spent a sunday with them. I think before Otma got measles, but i really don't know exactly.
I'm writing about it and it so hard to be precise (and i'd like to be).
Thank you so much if you can help me  :)
Title: Re: Last time Olga A. saw Otma
Post by: historyfan on April 22, 2011, 09:12:04 PM
I assume you mean the last "Sunday party" she hosted for them?  I don't know exactly either, but it would have to have been early 1914.

She did, of course, see them after that point (there is a diary entry by Tatiana Nicolaievna dated 1 August 1914, describing briefly the last time she saw her before the war, the day Olga Alexandrovna left for the hospital at the front).

If I'm correct about the timing of the last "Sunday party", that would have made Olga Nicolaievna 18 years old, Tatiana almost 17, Maria almost 15 and Anastasia almost 13.

I hope that helps a little.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on April 23, 2011, 05:23:04 AM
Msge 367

A very nice family picture. One of the things I like about it is that the boys (who look about four and two) are simply dressed (I have a bit of a weakness for sailor suits) and have sensible haircuts. Col. Koulikovsky's stiff collar looks horribly uncomfortable, however!

My favourite Olga picture, however, is one from the wikipedia article about her. It shows her holding Tikhon as a very young baby, and Col. Koulikiovsky next to her with the pram!

Ann
Title: Re: Last time Olga A. saw Otma
Post by: Sunny on April 23, 2011, 08:28:27 AM
I assume you mean the last "Sunday party" she hosted for them?  I don't know exactly either, but it would have to have been early 1914.

She did, of course, see them after that point (there is a diary entry by Tatiana Nicolaievna dated 1 August 1914, describing briefly the last time she saw her before the war, the day Olga Alexandrovna left for the hospital at the front).

If I'm correct about the timing of the last "Sunday party", that would have made Olga Nicolaievna 18 years old, Tatiana almost 17, Maria almost 15 and Anastasia almost 13.

I hope that helps a little.

The point is... i was wrong!  :) I really believed they had toher tea party after the beginning of the war. But your reply is interesting, and, even if i didn't know, you gave me something precious!
Do you know also when they met for the last time - i mean, a meeting of any kind?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on April 23, 2011, 08:57:30 PM
Sunny - at some point during 1915, Olga went back to St Petersburg (from where she was nursing - i believe it was Kiev by that point, though I could be wrong) to "close up" her house in Sergievskaya St.  She didn't stay long but she may have paid her nieces a visit at that time.

"The Last Grand Duchess" has a reference to how old Anastasia was the last time her Aunt Olga saw her - but I haven't got time to look it up just now.  I will tomorrow, if no one else does before that.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Sunny on April 24, 2011, 11:25:47 AM
Sunny - at some point during 1915, Olga went back to St Petersburg (from where she was nursing - i believe it was Kiev by that point, though I could be wrong) to "close up" her house in Sergievskaya St.  She didn't stay long but she may have paid her nieces a visit at that time.

"The Last Grand Duchess" has a reference to how old Anastasia was the last time her Aunt Olga saw her - but I haven't got time to look it up just now.  I will tomorrow, if no one else does before that.

Historyfan, you're so kind; i would do it for you, for i'm the interested, but i don't have a copy of "the last Grand Duchess"; i read it once, borrowed it from a library in NY, but it has never benn traslated. I'm gonna buy it on amazon, thou'.
I than k you so much, you're so kind  :)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: aleksandr pavlovich on April 24, 2011, 01:46:23 PM
Re # 374, and "Sunny":  The volume on Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna by Ian Vorres was issued both in hardcover (1964) and softcover (October 2001) editions.  Perhaps you know that even in used condition, they can be somewhat expensive today?  Regards,  AP.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on April 24, 2011, 08:58:28 PM
I got extremely lucky - I found an excellent deal online.

Anyway, here's the quote I was thinking of.  From "The Last Grand Duchess" by Ian Vorres, published 1964, page 176:

"'My beloved Anastasia was fifteen when I saw her for the last time in the summer of 1916.'"

It doesn't say, though, on what occasion that was, where it was, etc.  The passage I quoted was during the part where the Grand Duchess describes her visit to and correspondence with Anna Anderson.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: blessOTMA on April 25, 2011, 12:49:46 AM
There are some nice photos of the girls, Nicholas , his mother and Olga Alexandrovna which seem quite late in the Tsarist period.
Olga Alexandrovna is in her nurse's uniform and she is sitting on a dock with the girls ..., her arm linked with  Olga's . I wonder if that was this time.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: blessOTMA on April 25, 2011, 01:42:01 AM
Remarkably I found one of the photos I was referring to

(http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Romanov%20postings/th_MOAA.jpg) (http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/yy202/blessOTMA/Romanov%20postings/MOAA.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Sunny on April 25, 2011, 02:18:21 AM
Could it be in Mogilev? Maybe it was an occasion to reunite the family...

Re # 374, and "Sunny":  The volume on Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna by Ian Vorres was issued both in hardcover (1964) and softcover (October 2001) editions.  Perhaps you know that even in used condition, they can be somewhat expensive today?  Regards,  AP.

Thank you so much, AP; i was looking for an unexpensive copy on Amazon, recently :)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Sunny on April 25, 2011, 02:42:32 AM
I was quite forget it! OMG!
THANK YOU VERY VERY MUCH Historyfan - it was so important to me the information you gave me.
Now my story can continue... you've been so kind, thank you  :D
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Svetabel on April 25, 2011, 04:49:43 AM
Olga and her sister Xenia

(http://i52.tinypic.com/206ebk8.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on April 25, 2011, 08:43:18 AM
I was quite forget it! OMG!
THANK YOU VERY VERY MUCH Historyfan - it was so important to me the information you gave me.
Now my story can continue... you've been so kind, thank you  :D

You're welcome.  : )
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on April 25, 2011, 08:44:57 AM
Remarkably I found one of the photos I was referring to

BlessOTMA, that's not Maria Feodorovna in the photo, is it?  Sitting opposite the group?  Who are the other two sitting next to Olga Alexandrovna?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on April 25, 2011, 10:09:29 AM
No, thats Maria Nicholaevna

I cant recognize the boy but the girls are Olga Nicholaevna (left) and anastasia
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: blessOTMA on April 25, 2011, 06:03:36 PM
No, thats Maria Nicholaevna I cant recognize the boy but the girls are Olga Nicholaevna (left) and anastasia
You are correct. The lovely and solid MN is not MF...and the other members of OTMA are indeed ON and AN.  I believe the young boy is one of Xenia's sons as she was there at that time as well....just night in this picture 
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on April 25, 2011, 08:48:02 PM
No, thats Maria Nicholaevna

I cant recognize the boy but the girls are Olga Nicholaevna (left) and anastasia

Thank you.  I thought I was going crazy - Olga Nicholaievna was the only one recognizable to me! 
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on April 25, 2011, 08:53:37 PM
There are some nice photos of the girls, Nicholas , his mother and Olga Alexandrovna which seem quite late in the Tsarist period.
Olga Alexandrovna is in her nurse's uniform and she is sitting on a dock with the girls ..., her arm linked with  Olga's . I wonder if that was this time.


Hold on - I just noticed Olga Alexandrovna is wearing her medal on her uniform.  Was she required to wear it all the time after she received it, or was it something she wore only at the time she was awarded it?  That might make a difference as to the time period this photo was taken, and possibly the location also.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on April 26, 2011, 03:27:39 AM
Unlike the British, who most of the time wear only the ribbon (the medals themselves come out for special occations, such as Prince William's wedding!), Russian servicemen wore their decorations at all times. Presumably the same applied to military nurses.

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Sunny on April 26, 2011, 08:08:02 AM
Indeed, BlessOTMA, the pic you found is wonderful :) I was thinking i can mention it in my story (i'm a pic addicted, i LOVE mention real and non real pics in what I write... i now, i'm insane  :D)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Nicolá De Valerón on April 26, 2011, 10:25:17 AM
Hold on - I just noticed Olga Alexandrovna is wearing her medal on her uniform.  Was she required to wear it all the time after she received it, or was it something she wore only at the time she was awarded it?

Excerpt from the Imperial Russian Military regulations about Order of St. George and it's equivalents (November of 1913, signed by N-II): paragraph 181 "St. George medal is never removed (always wear)". So, Olga Alexandrovna being awarded by General Mannerheim in 1915, always wore this medal, at least til the end of the war.

Unlike the British, who most of the time wear only the ribbon (the medals themselves come out for special occations, such as Prince William's wedding!), Russian servicemen wore their decorations at all times. Presumably the same applied to military nurses.

Ann

Ann, actually not all time. Only two highest military decorations (Order of St. George with all it's equivalents and Order of St. Vladimir) were required to be worn all time (both on ceremonial and field uniform). Others (St. Anna and St. Stanislaus) were not so strictly regulated. Some officers worn them, some not. Sadly, but practical ribbon bar was never introduced in Russian Empire.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on April 26, 2011, 10:51:39 AM
Nicola

Thank you.

I wonder how often Russian officers (or Germans for that matter) had to apply for replacement decorations because they had been lost or damaged in action!

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on April 26, 2011, 09:46:45 PM
Thank you, Nicola.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on May 11, 2011, 09:37:44 PM
Can anyone tell me what the caption in this photo says?

(http://i917.photobucket.com/albums/ad20/yvettecowe/Romanov%20Photos/olgah.jpg)

I know the top two lines say: Her Imperial Highness Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna - but I don't know the rest.  : P
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Nicolá De Valerón on May 12, 2011, 12:48:36 PM
Can anyone tell me what the caption in this photo says?

historyfan, this is a description of the Olga's actions, which led her to the awarding with St. George medal. Here is a translation:

"Her Imperial Highness Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna during her visit to the 12th Akhtyrsky Hussar's of Her Name regiment on the 21st and 22th of May this year (*1915) deign to be in position during the actual artillery fire of the enemy, personally lead the bandaging of the wounded hussars and gunners and deign to accept from the acting chief General of the 2nd Cavalry Corps (*General Mannerheim temporarily replaced General Khan Hussein-Nakhichevansky) St. George medal of the 4th degree with the serial № 326476. After the report about this event made by Chief of Staff of Supreme Commander to the Emperor, His Imperial Majesty has been pleased to give on September 16th a high permission to this award."
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on May 12, 2011, 08:48:37 PM
THANK you, Nicola!  It was really irritating to me that I couldn't read this passage!
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on May 12, 2011, 10:24:52 PM
That explains why she looks so solemn in this photo also.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Veronica on May 13, 2011, 03:58:27 PM
I accidentally erased the picture I posted in Reply #395, so here it is again

(http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/4319/olgadenmark1885.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on June 12, 2011, 10:32:40 PM
Tomorrow, 13 June, marks the 129th birthday of the Grand Duchess Olga.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: QueenEna1887 on July 24, 2011, 03:02:01 AM
Does anyone have a portrait of Olga as a baby or a closeup of her as a toddler on the floor in her grandfather King Christian IX's family picture.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Svetabel on July 30, 2011, 02:25:20 AM
Does anyone have a portrait of Olga as a baby or a closeup of her as a toddler on the floor in her grandfather King Christian IX's family picture.

(http://i53.tinypic.com/ka4suv.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on August 01, 2011, 08:54:54 PM
Something that's been bothering me.

I've read Vorres, I've read "25 Chapters" and I've read Phenix.  In all three, there seems to be a big hole between November 1916 (the wedding of Olga and Nicholas Kulikovsky), and February/March 1917 (the abdication).  What were Olga and Nicholas doing during that time?  Was he back at the front, and she back at the hospital?  Where were they living?  I've never been able to find this information.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Svetabel on August 02, 2011, 12:15:57 AM
Something that's been bothering me.

I've read Vorres, I've read "25 Chapters" and I've read Phenix.  In all three, there seems to be a big hole between November 1916 (the wedding of Olga and Nicholas Kulikovsky), and February/March 1917 (the abdication).  What were Olga and Nicholas doing during that time?  Was he back at the front, and she back at the hospital?  Where were they living?  I've never been able to find this information.

Apart their honeymoon (a month after the wedding) they were living in Kiev. Olga was busy with her hospital work, her husband also was in Kiev. In March 1917 they left together with the Empress Maria F. for the Crimea. In the diaries of the Empress of that period (December 1916- March 1917) is clearly seen that Olga visited mother every day.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on August 02, 2011, 08:07:24 AM
That's what I don't have and haven't read - the Empress Marie's diaries.  Thank you, Svetabel.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 03, 2011, 12:26:59 PM
Only a portion was published in Danish and a little bit more in Russian.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on August 03, 2011, 09:50:40 PM
I found a pretty good website:  http://translate.google.ca/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://www.nasledie-rus.ru/podshivka/6203.php&ei=nQg6Tq2WFsHosQLijuU-&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CB0Q7gEwAA&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%25D0%2594%25D0%25BD%25D0%25B5%25D0%25B2%25D0%25BD%25D0%25B8%25D0%25BA%2B%25D0%259C%25D0%25B0%25D1%2580%25D0%25B8%25D0%25B8%2B%25D0%25A4%25D0%25B5%25D0%25B4%25D0%25BE%25D1%2580%25D0%25BE%25D0%25B2%25D0%25BD%25D1%258B%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dsafari%26rls%3Den%26prmd%3Divns

The translation's pretty atrocious but I get the idea.  Provides some interesting insight into Maria Feodorovna's views, and she actually has complimentary things to say about Nicholas Kulikovsky.  I was under the impression she never did.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on August 06, 2011, 10:07:02 PM
All right, I have another question.

Other than the photos at the back of "25 Chapters Of My Life", I've never seen any other pictures of Knudsminde, the farm Olga and Nicholas raised their sons in, in Ballerup, Denmark.

Does anyone have or know of any others?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Svetabel on August 07, 2011, 04:23:18 AM
All right, I have another question.

Other than the photos at the back of "25 Chapters Of My Life", I've never seen any other pictures of Knudsminde, the farm Olga and Nicholas raised their sons in, in Ballerup, Denmark.

Does anyone have or know of any others?

Doesn't the English version of Jan Vorres "Last Grand Duchess" contain a photo of Knudsminde? The Russian version of the book has a photo of the house in the estate.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on August 07, 2011, 08:30:03 PM
Perhaps.  Unfortunately, I bought my copy used, and some (insert profanity here) has taken all the photos out.  : (

Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on August 08, 2011, 07:39:13 AM
in my copy appears one picture of Olga and Nicholas at Knudsminde, just before chapter 10 and another of the farmhouse before page 161
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 08, 2011, 08:05:29 AM
Thinking of getting the Olga book. It is good ? 25 Chapters one I mean.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on August 08, 2011, 08:18:06 AM
Thinking of getting the Olga book. It is good ? 25 Chapters one I mean.

I love it.  If you're looking for political analyses, or details of the sordid scandals of the Romanov, though - that one's not for you.  She doesn't go into all that.  She talks of the positive things in her life, she talks about her brother, her father, other members of the family the way you'd expect a family member to talk of them.  It's really like one is listening to her talk over lunch.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 08, 2011, 08:27:57 AM
Sounds like a good book to be had. Thanks for the recommendation :).
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on August 08, 2011, 08:37:59 AM
Sounds like a good book to be had. Thanks for the recommendation :).

If you'd like some better reviews, there's a thread about the book to be found on here.  : )

And I found it:  http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=14744.0
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Svetabel on January 17, 2012, 05:32:41 AM
GDss Olga and her Aunt Queen Olga of Greece with soldiers in a hospital.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Rarefind/2olgas.jpg)

Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 17, 2012, 09:38:10 AM
Both Olgas barely escaped from the Russian Revolution with their lives.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: TimM on January 18, 2012, 11:05:01 AM
Olga A is buried here in Canada, right?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: aleksandr pavlovich on January 18, 2012, 11:40:48 AM
Olga A is buried here in Canada, right?

Correct.   Regards,   AP.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on January 18, 2012, 11:42:10 AM
Regarding Msge.413, the picture was presumably taken during WW1. How did Queen Olga come to be in Russia at that time?

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Svetabel on January 18, 2012, 11:56:21 AM
Regarding Msge.413, the picture was presumably taken during WW1. How did Queen Olga come to be in Russia at that time?

Ann

She lived Russia since 1914 year - it was her decision to be with her motherland in the War.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on January 18, 2012, 01:23:07 PM
Regarding Msge.413, the picture was presumably taken during WW1. How did Queen Olga come to be in Russia at that time?

Ann

I remember a passage from either "Last Grand Duchess" or "25 Chapters" - or both - where Olga recalled the Queen's visit, and her desire not to "get in the way".
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 18, 2012, 03:32:55 PM
Queen Olga was working in Russia during the war in her own war work. She was there to sign the petition of pardon in favor of her grandson Dimitri, who murdered Rasputin.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: ashdean on January 22, 2012, 04:53:18 PM
Regarding Msge.413, the picture was presumably taken during WW1. How did Queen Olga come to be in Russia at that time?

Ann

She lived Russia since 1914 year - it was her decision to be with her motherland in the War.
Queen Olga was visiting her family when the war broke out and although Greece was neutral and she might have been able to make her way home without too much difficulty via Romania etc...she choose to stay with her family.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 22, 2012, 10:26:54 PM
She also helped with hospital work though.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: QueenEna1887 on January 30, 2012, 11:52:18 AM
Does anyone know how to get in contact with Xenia Kulikovsky, Olga's granddaughter?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on January 30, 2012, 01:28:15 PM
No, but her son, Paul Kulikovsky, has a facebook page. If you are on facebook, you may send him a message. I sent him one after I read "25 Chapters" and he responded.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: mishaxenia on February 01, 2012, 01:52:20 PM
you know or you have news of Rosa Von Pahlen married Von Krusenstjerne, it lived in Denmark and it was friendly of Grand Duchess Olga. It  was of noble family? I have read that they were friendly already  in Saint Petersburg before of the revolution. Thanks
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Marc on February 01, 2012, 04:56:49 PM
It  was of noble family?

Both families were noble,but von der Pahlen family were very old Baltic German noble family...They were made Barons in 1679,Counts in 1799 and first mentioned in 1120 when they were Governors of Riga...They originated from Pomerania and later moved to Livonia...
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Clemence on March 31, 2012, 11:59:09 AM
Could someone help me understand if there was really a possibility the danish government would extradict the GD Olga to USSR after WWII?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Robert_Hall on March 31, 2012, 01:41:27 PM
In my opinion. NO.  The Danes did not submit to the Nazis, why would they be intimidated by the Soviets ? They were under no threat and by then the Soviets were no longer interested in the Romanovs anyway.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on April 01, 2012, 08:14:39 AM
I thought that was the reason Olga went to Canada...
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Robert_Hall on April 01, 2012, 08:39:45 AM
She went to Canada simply because it was cheaper to live there than in post war Europe. Her money went further. Ask her sons. [if they are still alive, that is] This Soviets chasing down exiled Romanovs is a lot of bull pucky.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: aleksandr pavlovich on April 01, 2012, 08:56:20 AM
She went to Canada simply because it was cheaper to live there than in post war Europe. Her money went further. Ask her sons. [if they are still alive, that is] This Soviets chasing down exiled Romanovs is a lot of bull pucky.

  A bit of an update, Robert:  As you suspected, both of the Grand Duchess' sons are now dead.  Regards,  AP.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Robert_Hall on April 01, 2012, 09:04:40 AM
Thank you, AP.  I appreciate the update. You are right, I suspected as much.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: katmaxoz on September 27, 2012, 04:54:05 PM
a young Olga with her sister Xenia

(http://i47.tinypic.com/2ilzu43.jpg)

Its reasonably well known, but I thought this was a nice version of it.

Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Ally Kumari on September 28, 2012, 12:55:07 PM
This is extremely shallow of me, but among all the beautiful Romanov men and women, Grand Duchesses Olga and Xenia always seemed very plain (don´t  want to use word "ugly") to my eyes. Their brothers, cousins and other relatives all very handsome and gorgeous, and these two girls were not given good looks.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: darius on September 28, 2012, 02:22:00 PM
They seem to have taken most of the genes from the Danes.  The Wales Princesses weren´t the most beautiful of their generation either...
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Maria the Beautiful on September 28, 2012, 06:03:17 PM
From everything that I've read about GD Olga Alexandrovna, she seemed to me to be the cream of the crop of all the women of the Nobility of her time, including her sister and mother.   I was so  impressed by her inner strength and grace through all that she endured during and after the revolution.   As far as I'm concerned, that's far more impressive than outer beauty.   
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: katmaxoz on September 28, 2012, 07:11:10 PM
From everything that I've read about GD Olga Alexandrovna, she seemed to me to be the cream of the crop of all the women of the Nobility of her time, including her sister and mother.   I was so  impressed by her inner strength and grace through all that she endured during and after the revolution.   As far as I'm concerned, that's far more impressive than outer beauty.   

I would have to agree with this statement.  She seemed the like the grand duchess you could sit down with over tea who would be happy to talk to you no matter what your social background was. I had the impression Olga was very down to earth and that her imperial background, while important to her, wasn't the only thing of worth in her life.

Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Maria the Beautiful on September 28, 2012, 07:37:16 PM
Yes, down to earth.  She most likely developed that quality from her close relationship with her father who taught her to appreciate the simple things in life.  So, despite her plain looks, IMO she out-shown other the bejewelled, shallow ladies of the Court.   She's someone I would have liked to have known.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: aleksandr pavlovich on September 28, 2012, 11:26:03 PM
From everything that I've read about GD Olga Alexandrovna, she seemed to me to be the cream of the crop of all the women of the Nobility of her time, including her sister and mother.   I was so  impressed by her inner strength and grace through all that she endured during and after the revolution.   As far as I'm concerned, that's far more impressive than outer beauty.  

I would have to agree with this statement.  She seemed the like the grand duchess you could sit down with over tea who would be happy to talk to you no matter what your social background was. I had the impression Olga was very down to earth and that her imperial background, while important to her, wasn't the only thing of worth in her life.

 And she could be frugal!  I believe that I have mentioned before that my sister purchased two of the GD Olga A.'s own monogrammed handkerchiefs (white on white) via a very reputable dealer, who in turn had gotten them from her family after her death.  One of the handkerchiefs is neatly darned to hide a hole worn in the fabric.        Regards,  AP.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: edubs31 on September 28, 2012, 11:51:54 PM
I agree with the above posts. She wasn't conventionally beautiful on the surface but sounds like a pretty amazing woman if you dismiss with the superficial. Easy to see why she was OTMAA's favorite aunt. Her personality was just enough regal, modest and also contemporary to make her fascinating to me.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Maria the Beautiful on September 29, 2012, 05:44:45 AM
Alexandr P, great story about mending her hankies.   That just raised her even higher in my admiration.   One other trait I noticed about her from my readings - she always seemed to put others before herself no matter what their station.   
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on September 29, 2012, 06:58:36 AM
Olga A is definitely my favourite Grand Duchess, for all the reasons given above! And she married a handsome Colonel for love and they had a very happy marriage.

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on September 29, 2012, 10:19:45 PM
Olga A is definitely my favourite Grand Duchess, for all the reasons given above! And she married a handsome Colonel for love and they had a very happy marriage.

Ann

And to H-E-double-hockey-sticks with what anyone else thought about it! Many of the Romanovs fascinate me, for different reasons, but she is the one I admire most.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Jen_94 on September 30, 2012, 05:00:51 AM
Olga A is definitely my favourite Romanov besides NAOTMAA, and definitely partially for the reasons stated above. I remember watching Olga: the last Grand Duchess on youtube and remember after watching it, I felt her life story was very fascinaiting.

katmaxoz, love photo! Thanks for posting!
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 30, 2012, 02:38:45 PM
She was the most natural and down-to-earth of most Romanovs. I don't think she shared the same ideals with cousin Ducky or Aunt Miechen.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on October 01, 2012, 02:35:37 AM
Eric

I think you mean 'ideas', not 'ideals'. I find it difficult to associate either Victoria Melita or Marie Pavlovna with ideals.

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Laura_ on October 01, 2012, 05:00:05 AM
It really depends on which ''ideals'' we are talking about!  :)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 01, 2012, 04:19:38 PM
The idea on royalty and how they should act and behave. Olga was considered a rebel in her down to earth manner.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on October 02, 2012, 01:24:42 AM
So that is an idea and not an ideal.

Victoria Melita also behaved contrary to ideas of proper royal behaviour.

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 02, 2012, 01:34:25 AM
Not really, Ducky could be very regal in royal circles. Her rebel behavior lies only in her quest for love. Olga was much more approachable and did not suffer the lost of imperial dignity as Ducky did.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on October 02, 2012, 04:11:55 AM
No, Victoria Melita was divorced, and ran off with a cousin who could not lawfully marry her in his own country.

Not very regal behaviour.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 02, 2012, 12:24:21 PM
As I said "only in love" Ducky enjoyed being the "Empress in exile" very much. Olga could not have cared less...
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Hector on October 02, 2012, 03:52:46 PM
I kind of wonder what you have happened if Olga's first marriage hadn't been childless. Would she be so lovestarved as to look outside her marriage, but also what a husband to provide her children. Would she been more likely to stay within royal circles since her son or daughter would have been a Prince or Princess of Oldenburg. If she had been a mother pre-WWI, would she have been more independent of her mother and eldest brother and therefore would have been as close as she was to her nieces.

Just a lot of "what if" stuff.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 03, 2012, 11:01:29 PM
Yet...Olga chose Peter of Oldenberg than no marriage. She was no Toria of Wales.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on November 24, 2012, 08:50:37 PM
Today marked the 52nd anniversary of the death of Grand Duchess Olga.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Suzanne on November 25, 2012, 09:14:05 PM
In honour of the 52nd anniversary of Olga's death

http://www.royalhistorian.com/from-st-petersburg-to-toronto-the-life-of-grand-duchess-olga-alexandrovna-1882-1960/
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: aleksandr pavlovich on November 25, 2012, 11:09:26 PM
In honour of the 52nd anniversary of Olga's death

http://www.royalhistorian.com/from-st-petersburg-to-toronto-the-life-of-grand-duchess-olga-alexandrovna-1882-1960/

   A true lady!  One who was able to ultimately make a secure/practical emotional transition from all the gilt and privileges of the past to the simple quiet  solitude, of and in, another country, where she would unltimately die.
  Members of my family are proud to own a few of her and her empress mother's monogrammed personal linen items of short and impeccable provenance.                                                             Regards,   AP.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: aleksandr pavlovich on November 25, 2012, 11:11:22 PM
In honour of the 52nd anniversary of Olga's death

http://www.royalhistorian.com/from-st-petersburg-to-toronto-the-life-of-grand-duchess-olga-alexandrovna-1882-1960/

   A true lady!  One who was able to ultimately make a secure/practical emotional transition from all the gilt and privileges of the past to the simple quiet  solitude, of and in, another country, where she would unltimately die.
  Members of my family are proud to own a few of her and her mother's monogrammed personal linen items of short and impeccable provenance.            Regards,   AP.



My pardon at the double posting!  It seems that my computer wishes to "encore" the intended message!  For clarity, please read the preceeding post.                                      AP.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 26, 2012, 09:19:53 PM
I wonder if it was Dagmar that introduced her youngest daughter to painting ? She seemed a good one (How she found time I couldn't imagine), but her sister Alix wasn't gifted in that way (even though she later became a photographer) .
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on November 26, 2012, 09:51:13 PM
I don't think so. I think Olga inherited the gene, but it was on the family visits to Denmark where she sat with a relative and watched her paint - oh, please, someone help me out as to which relative it was! Quite sure it was mentioned in "25 Chapters" but I can't look it up now - I'm already not working when I should be! If no one's posted the passage I'll find it tomorrow, but I remember that being Olga's inspiration. Not her mother.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on November 27, 2012, 08:39:28 AM
Here it is, from "25 Chapters Of My Life", page 49:

"I have many lovely memories of cosy afternoons at Bernstorffshøj...Aunt Marie would often sit and paint in her garden room. Normally, artists do not like being watched while they are at work, but I was somehow always allowed to stand next to her and I learnt a lot from that."  -Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna.

"Aunt Marie" was the wife of Valdemar, Empress Marie Feodorovna's brother.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: mishaxenia on December 27, 2012, 04:44:51 PM
A photo of the GD Olga with her cousins Olga e Alexandra of Hanover. The man should be  Frederick Francis IV  last Grand Duke of Mecklenburg-Schwerin, husband of Alexandra. Has resemblance with Nikolai Kulikovsky but I have doubts

(http://imageshack.us/a/img571/4179/615olga1923ecuginealexa.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on December 27, 2012, 08:47:12 PM
I don't think that's Nikolai Kulikovsky either.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: grandduchessella on December 27, 2012, 09:40:00 PM
The card was recently up for sale on ebay (and fetched over $250). It was identified as Friedrich Franz with Alexandra and the 2 Olgas. The card was signed by Olga and also by 2 of the others but it was hard to read the messages and apparently nicknames were used. Olga talked of her delight in visiting her two 'grey beard' cousins--she referred to them as 'your sisters' in the inscription so the card had to be for either Marie Baden or Ernst August of Cumberland. The 2 other inscriptions were either too faded or too cramped to get a good read on. Olga's was in English while the others were in German.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 28, 2012, 12:18:21 AM
Yes. both daughters of her Aunt Thyra.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on December 28, 2012, 10:31:13 AM
Mishaxenia, i saw that on ebay and congrats for buying it! its a great image!
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: mishaxenia on December 28, 2012, 12:27:04 PM
Thank you. GD Olga is my favorite one,  I love his "noble simplicity " .  I posted the back of the photo with the inscription
http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/2637/615aretrodellafoto615.jpg
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Twobsbob on December 28, 2012, 01:12:34 PM
Lisa,

I don't visit these boards very frequently, and am only now reading your response to my message posted so very long ago.  Although incredibly delayed, my gratefulness at your response is genuine nonetheless.  I have looked at the house on Street View and can visualize where it is now.  Thank you very much for the information

Bob
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: grandduchessella on December 28, 2012, 07:32:47 PM
Thank you. GD Olga is my favorite one,  I love his "noble simplicity " .  I posted the back of the photo with the inscription
http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/2637/615aretrodellafoto615.jpg

Oh, you were the buyer of the card? Perhaps since you have it in actuality, you can read the other inscriptions better than I could on the ebay scan. Olga's was readable but not the first or third inscriptions. The first was very faded and the third rather small and cramped.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on December 28, 2012, 08:37:04 PM
Thank you. GD Olga is my favorite one,  I love his "noble simplicity " .  I posted the back of the photo with the inscription
http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/2637/615aretrodellafoto615.jpg

Oh, you were the buyer of the card? Perhaps since you have it in actuality, you can read the other inscriptions better than I could on the ebay scan. Olga's was readable but not the first or third inscriptions. The first was very faded and the third rather small and cramped.

All I can read of the third one is "A thousand thanks for your letter", and then Olga is mentioned on the next line. : (

Did Olga's say "grey-beard" or "grey-haired"?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: mishaxenia on December 30, 2012, 08:42:47 AM


http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/2637/615aretrodellafoto615.jpg













Fortunately the written of Olga  is still readable.  The photo is of 1923 in Fredensborg .  Others have used nicknames , Carline ? e Fipps perhaps a nickname of  Frederick.


Fortunately the written Olga
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: JamesAPrattIII on January 02, 2013, 08:16:04 PM
On you tube there is a film Siege of Przemysl about 10;30 and 18:68 there are clips of what Olga A, in a nurses uniform and Xenia in black with Nicholas. Based on Nicholas letters it was probably taken 9 or 10 (OS)/22 or 23 (NS) April 1915 at Lvov. The photo in reply 303 looks like it is still from this film. Also in this film are GD Nicholas N who being 6'6" does tend to stand out. The film mainly documents nicholas visit to the captured Austrian Fortress city of Przemysl in April 1915. Note much of the destruction was caused by the Austrians before they surrendered when they ran out of food.
 Also note the pictures of Olga As sons in uniform are Danish army uniforms. The oldest served in the Danish Foot Guards regiment that his grandfather Alexander III was honorary Colonel of.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on January 03, 2013, 10:23:16 PM
On you tube there is a film Siege of Przemysl about 10;30 and 18:68 there are clips of what Olga A, in a nurses uniform and Xenia in black with Nicholas. Based on Nicholas letters it was probably taken 9 or 10 (OS)/22 or 23 (NS) April 1915 at Lvov. The photo in reply 303 looks like it is still from this film. Also in this film are GD Nicholas N who being 6'6" does tend to stand out. The film mainly documents nicholas visit to the captured Austrian Fortress city of Przemysl in April 1915. Note much of the destruction was caused by the Austrians before they surrendered when they ran out of food.
 Also note the pictures of Olga As sons in uniform are Danish army uniforms. The oldest served in the Danish Foot Guards regiment that his grandfather Alexander III was honorary Colonel of.

When I searched for this video, I found only one that was in four parts - consequently I couldn't find the clips you spoke of. I think I know the ones, anyway, but it would be nice to see them.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 04, 2013, 08:39:01 AM
Yes. Either her or Princess Alice of Athlone. That is not Grand Duchess Olga for sure ! 100m % sure !  :)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Maria the Beautiful on February 19, 2013, 10:57:59 AM
I'm trying to locate on Google Earth the house that NII gave Olga after her marriage to Peter Oldenberg on Sergievskaya Street.  I can't find this street.   Does anyone know where it is located or whether it has beeen renamed since the turn of the century.   Does the house still exist?   Any info will be appreciated.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on February 19, 2013, 01:04:32 PM
I am almost sure I've seen it before...did you check this thread, or Olga Alexandrovna part 1?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Maria the Beautiful on February 19, 2013, 01:11:58 PM
historyfan - I just reread the entire thread, both Pt. 1 & 2 in the past couple days and haven't seen any pictures of this house.   What really baffles me is that I can't seem to locate the street at all on Google Earth.   Perhaps I'm misspelling it, but this is the way it is spelled in Ian Vorres' book.  I'm wondering if the street was renamed at some point in time.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Svetabel on February 19, 2013, 02:06:14 PM

Here's a thread on this Palace

http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=3071.0 (http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=3071.0)


I'm trying to locate on Google Earth the house that NII gave Olga after her marriage to Peter Oldenberg on Sergievskaya Street.  I can't find this street.   Does anyone know where it is located or whether it has beeen renamed since the turn of the century.   Does the house still exist?   Any info will be appreciated.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Maria the Beautiful on February 19, 2013, 03:27:15 PM
Thank you Svetabel.   This is exactly what I need.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on February 19, 2013, 09:11:24 PM
Thank you, Svetabel - I start to worry about my mind when I'm sure I have seen something somewhere, but can't actually remember.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Ally Kumari on April 03, 2013, 03:52:40 AM
(http://nd06.jxs.cz/080/114/1f8c82ae53_92333385_o2.png)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Jen_94 on April 03, 2013, 05:47:41 AM
Thanks for posting that picture! What year is it from?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on April 03, 2013, 06:53:49 AM
I think before her marriage. She looked very young.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on April 03, 2013, 08:59:09 AM
She's wearing a star. Is that a medal/order, or just a decoration?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Jen_94 on April 03, 2013, 04:38:52 PM
I think before her marriage. She looked very young.

To me, she looks around 16 here?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on April 03, 2013, 04:41:24 PM
The image is from early 1900s so she was 18-17 ;-)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Jen_94 on April 03, 2013, 04:43:34 PM
Ah, thank you! She always looked so youthful in her teens, you know, so young looking.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on April 03, 2013, 04:44:39 PM
You welcome!! i wonder if this image of Misha was taken in the same ocation

http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/1100/sanstitre21w.jpg
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on April 04, 2013, 09:13:28 AM
Possibly...Where did you find that image ?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on April 04, 2013, 11:04:06 AM
It was part of an auction catalogue of a french auction house. That s why it looks so blurry.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on April 04, 2013, 11:26:22 AM
Love to see a good version of it. The French seem to have a lot of good Russian photos...

Olga and Misha were very close, but I did not like the way she denied knowledge of her brother & Countess Brassova. The photos showed she knew and even double date with her and her lover (and later husband). It shows a selfish side of her that is usually not people think of her.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Jen_94 on April 04, 2013, 02:11:16 PM
You welcome!! i wonder if this image of Misha was taken in the same ocation

http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/1100/sanstitre21w.jpg

Could be. Great image by the way!
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on April 04, 2013, 03:25:55 PM
Very much ! It looks like it could be taken on board a ship. Maye Polar Star ?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Ally Kumari on June 11, 2013, 05:07:22 AM
(http://samoderzhavnaya.ru/media/photo/thormeyer/normal/25.jpg)

I recognize Olga and Mikhail, but who are the others?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on June 11, 2013, 08:26:28 AM
on the right side is Gd Andrei Vladimirovich
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 11, 2013, 01:43:11 PM
The others may not be royal.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Ally Kumari on June 11, 2013, 01:57:22 PM
The others may not be royal.

Well, this was not helpful at all, thank you very much. But as it happens, sometimes we know even non-royal people. That is why I asked.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Svetabel on June 11, 2013, 02:25:26 PM

I recognize Olga and Mikhail, but who are the others?

One of them is Thormeyer, tutor of Mikhail (the moustached man sitting on the ground).
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 11, 2013, 10:32:03 PM
Not much know about non-royal people. Thanks for the info on "Floppy"'s tutor.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Chris_H on July 06, 2013, 01:37:34 PM
[(http://i1053.photobucket.com/albums/s477/chrishiggins1980/Picture685_zpsaf1638e1.jpg) (http://s1053.photobucket.com/user/chrishiggins1980/media/Picture685_zpsaf1638e1.jpg.html)]
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Chris_H on July 06, 2013, 01:41:21 PM
Grand Duchess Olga, Empress Maria Feodorovna and her second husband Nicholas Koulikovsky in 1916
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Jen_94 on July 06, 2013, 05:23:22 PM
Wow, I've never seen this. Thank you for posting.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on July 06, 2013, 06:07:37 PM
Here a clearer and switched version

(http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/1724/tbsi.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/856/tbsi.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Chris_H on July 06, 2013, 06:11:49 PM
[](http://i1053.photobucket.com/albums/s477/chrishiggins1980/Picture687_zps8c85b66a.jpg) (http://s1053.photobucket.com/user/chrishiggins1980/media/Picture687_zps8c85b66a.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Chris_H on July 06, 2013, 06:30:46 PM
It is nice to see Empress Maria seated right next to Olga at the celebrations for her second marriage, find it a very sweet picture
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on July 06, 2013, 09:27:47 PM
What I am not clear on is whether or not Xenia attended the wedding. There isn't any photographic evidence that she did, that I know of, yet some sources say she was there. Olga's own letters to her mother and to her brother Nicholas do not mention Xenia's attendance, and I can't recall reading any letters from Olga to Xenia. So I don't know where these sources get the information that Xenia attended also.

It's true that Maria Feodorovna's later treatment of her son-in-law left much to be desired, but the fact that she didn't shun the wedding says something.

The formal photo's pose with Nikolai standing behind his seated wife was replicated on their 25th anniversary in 1941, as shown in the book 25 Chapters Of My Life.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Svetabel on July 07, 2013, 01:09:52 AM
What I am not clear on is whether or not Xenia attended the wedding. There isn't any photographic evidence that she did, that I know of, yet some sources say she was there. Olga's own letters to her mother and to her brother Nicholas do not mention Xenia's attendance, and I can't recall reading any letters from Olga to Xenia. So I don't know where these sources get the information that Xenia attended also.

It's true that Maria Feodorovna's later treatment of her son-in-law left much to be desired, but the fact that she didn't shun the wedding says something.

The formal photo's pose with Nikolai standing behind his seated wife was replicated on their 25th anniversary in 1941, as shown in the book 25 Chapters Of My Life.

Xenia did not attend the wedding, her husband did though. The main source on this fact are diaries of Empress Maria Fedorovna.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 07, 2013, 03:03:59 AM
Xenia did not think much of Olga's husband.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Jen_94 on July 07, 2013, 04:00:11 AM
Xenia did not think much of Olga's husband.

How come?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Chris_H on July 07, 2013, 06:14:13 AM
Yes, how come Xenia didn't like Olga's husband?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Chris_H on July 07, 2013, 06:42:38 AM
was it because and I hate to say it like this, please forgive me, that Olga's second husband was not royalty or nobility?  Or was it, as in some people, that you just don't like the in law?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Jen_94 on July 07, 2013, 06:58:37 AM
was it because and I hate to say it like this, please forgive me, that Olga's second husband was not royalty or nobility?  Or was it, as in some people, that you just don't like the in law?

That's what I was thinking. Was it because he was not nobility, or royalty?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on July 07, 2013, 08:45:30 PM
was it because and I hate to say it like this, please forgive me, that Olga's second husband was not royalty or nobility?  Or was it, as in some people, that you just don't like the in law?

That's what I was thinking. Was it because he was not nobility, or royalty?

The dowager empress took issue with that fact also. After they were exiled, she did not include him in family meetings. According to GD Olga, this upset her (Olga), but she didn't make an issue about it and Nikolai, to his unending credit, didn't either. Maria Feodorovna did acknowledge, however, that he made Olga very happy.

I've never read anything on Xenia's opinion, though. It wouldn't surprise me if she shared her mother's. It's too bad - as husbands went, he was better at it than Sandro...
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Jen_94 on July 08, 2013, 05:32:38 AM
was it because and I hate to say it like this, please forgive me, that Olga's second husband was not royalty or nobility?  Or was it, as in some people, that you just don't like the in law?

That's what I was thinking. Was it because he was not nobility, or royalty?

The dowager empress took issue with that fact also. After they were exiled, she did not include him in family meetings. According to GD Olga, this upset her (Olga), but she didn't make an issue about it and Nikolai, to his unending credit, didn't either. Maria Feodorovna did acknowledge, however, that he made Olga very happy.

I've never read anything on Xenia's opinion, though. It wouldn't surprise me if she shared her mother's. It's too bad - as husbands went, he was better at it than Sandro...

Interesting to know, thank you! Maybe Xenia did think the same, but who knows?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Chris_H on July 08, 2013, 05:41:41 PM
it is nice to know that Maria Feodorovna did acknowledge that Nicholas did make Olga happy. Who knows why Xenia did not like Olga's Nicholas, perhaps she shared her mother's opinions or perhaps she was a little bit envious of Olga being married to a man that she loved, just opinion but who knows
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on July 08, 2013, 09:24:16 PM
it is nice to know that Maria Feodorovna did acknowledge that Nicholas did make Olga happy. Who knows why Xenia did not like Olga's Nicholas, perhaps she shared her mother's opinions or perhaps she was a little bit envious of Olga being married to a man that she loved, just opinion but who knows

Ah, well, Sandro and Xenia loved each other also, but as happens so often, they grew apart. *If* Xenia expressed a negative opinion of Nikolai Kulikovsky, I'm sure it had everything to do with his (lack of) pedigree. He conducted himself impeccably toward the family (according to Olga, but I have never seen this disputed.) Precisely why Olga has always been my favourite Romanov - she displayed none of that sort of snobbery.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on July 09, 2013, 03:04:53 AM
Nikolai Kulikovsky was a Guards officer, so he cannot have come from too far down the social heap. He and Olga were a pleasant and unpretentious pair - my favourite picture of them shows Olga holding the infant Tikhon, while Nikolai stands ready with the pram!

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on July 09, 2013, 11:22:15 AM
Nikolai Kulikovsky was a Guards officer, so he cannot have come from too far down the social heap. He and Olga were a pleasant and unpretentious pair - my favourite picture of them shows Olga holding the infant Tikhon, while Nikolai stands ready with the pram!

Ann

Olga described him as coming from a "prominent military family". She went on to say that she "cared nothing for such things." : ) But, he didn't have a "title"... well. I know the photo you mean, Ann - you're right, it is gorgeous.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on July 09, 2013, 11:28:35 AM
I was searching for the photo Ann cited, and I came across this one, which I'd never seen before:

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/p480x480/935918_206103726180316_1731263954_n.jpg

Does anyone happen to have it larger?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on July 09, 2013, 11:31:39 AM
And here is a (really tiny) version of the photo Ann spoke of:

http://encycl.opentopia.com/enimages/thumb/982/981069/340px-Romanovfamily.jpg
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on July 09, 2013, 02:28:24 PM
I was searching for the photo Ann cited, and I came across this one, which I'd never seen before:

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/p480x480/935918_206103726180316_1731263954_n.jpg

Does anyone happen to have it larger?

There you go!

(http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/4098/c70r.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/839/c70r.jpg/)
 


About the other image, here a larger version. Credits on the image

(http://istram.ucoz.ru/_ph/4/2/421152122.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on July 09, 2013, 10:06:01 PM
THANK you, Carolath Habsburg, for the larger images! Now, can anyone identify the bald gentleman with the mustache who is facing Maria Feodorovna? The woman in the foreground is obviously one of Olga's fellow nursing sisters, but what about the man of whom you can only see the top half of his face, on the far right? Who's he?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on July 10, 2013, 03:03:44 AM
Bear in mind also that in 1917 it was quite advanced for a man to be pushing a pram!

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Chris_H on July 10, 2013, 04:57:18 AM
Great pictures!  I really like the one with Nicholas pushing the pram and yes in 1917 it was advanced for a man to be pushing a pram, though it definitely depended on the man as well! 
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Jen_94 on July 10, 2013, 02:46:06 PM
Yeah, those are great photos. Thanks for posting them!
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Veronica on July 10, 2013, 03:14:25 PM
Now, can anyone identify the bald gentleman with the mustache who is facing Maria Feodorovna?

That's GD Alexander, "Sandro", Xenia's husband.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: grandduchessella on July 10, 2013, 04:28:50 PM
Nikolai Kulikovsky was a Guards officer, so he cannot have come from too far down the social heap. He and Olga were a pleasant and unpretentious pair - my favourite picture of them shows Olga holding the infant Tikhon, while Nikolai stands ready with the pram!

Ann

Olga described him as coming from a "prominent military family". She went on to say that she "cared nothing for such things." : ) But, he didn't have a "title"... well. I know the photo you mean, Ann - you're right, it is gorgeous.

Could there also have been some disapproval of the unconventional situation Olga and Nikolai were in for several years while she was still married to Peter?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Chris_H on July 10, 2013, 06:34:19 PM
I bet that there must of been.  I know that many of the Romanov men had mistresses and some even had children by their mistresses but I bet that was more accepted but for a married woman who was also a Grand Duchess there must of been disapproval.  Though I know that there was a considerable age difference between Olga and Peter
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on July 10, 2013, 09:36:44 PM
Now, can anyone identify the bald gentleman with the mustache who is facing Maria Feodorovna?

That's GD Alexander, "Sandro", Xenia's husband.

Oh my goodness, I didn't recognize him without his hair!
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on July 10, 2013, 09:41:34 PM
I'm sure there was, but MF treated Nikolai shabbily until her death. To me, that signifies that which does not go away - the "problem" of his non-royal birth.

Let's clarify, too, that there is no evidence that GD Olga and Nikolai were lovers before they married. True, an affair is an affair, but Olga having Nikolai's child while married to Peter would've been disastrous for her.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on July 11, 2013, 05:28:47 AM
They were most certainly in love while Olga was married to Peter of Oldenburg, but I'm inclined to think that there were no physical relations until they were married. Contraception was far from reliable then, and Tikhon arrived nine months after the wedding. On that basis, Olga and Nikolai were a highly fertile pair and had a very lively honeymoon!

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: grandduchessella on July 11, 2013, 09:50:16 AM
I'm sure there was, but MF treated Nikolai shabbily until her death. To me, that signifies that which does not go away - the "problem" of his non-royal birth.

Let's clarify, too, that there is no evidence that GD Olga and Nikolai were lovers before they married. True, an affair is an affair, but Olga having Nikolai's child while married to Peter would've been disastrous for her.

I didn't say or mean to imply that they were--it was the living together, and accompanying gossip I was referring to. "By 1906, he and Olga were corresponding regularly, when Olga's husband Duke Peter appointed Kulikovsky as his aide-de-camp. With Peter's permission, Kulikovsky moved into the 200-room residence in Sergievskaya Street, Saint Petersburg, that Peter shared with Olga. According to a fellow officer, gossip about a possible romance between Kulikovsky and the Grand Duchess, based on little more than their holding hands in public, spread through high society." Given that this was 1906 and Olga and Peter didn't separate until 8 years later, that was a long time for something so unusual to go on.  I have no doubt that the majority of the ill-treatment of NK was due to his 'inferior' birth. However, I can't imagine in the times in which they all lived, and with all the attendant hypocrisy and double standards towards women reaching beyond an unhappy marriage (either through an affair, a divorce, or whatever), that the widely-known situation was very popular within the family.

As a side note, does anyone know what happened to Nikolai's family after the revolution? It mentions the couple visiting them after their marriage so they were alive then. Being related to the late Emperor's sister couldn't have made them too popular.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: grandduchessella on July 11, 2013, 10:10:59 AM
From Nicholas II to Empress Marie re: Olga and Peter's engagement: ""...I cannot believe Olga is actually ENGAGED to Petya. They were probably both drunk yesterday. ... We both laughed so much reading your note that we have not recovered yet." The Letters of Tsar Nicholas and Empress Marie. p. 148

That boded well for the marriage all right.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on July 11, 2013, 01:39:14 PM
Ella
No problem. The pre-marital arrangement was certainly an odd one but there is nothing to tell us what, if anything, went on inside the Oldenburg palace.

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on July 11, 2013, 08:47:43 PM
I'm sure there was, but MF treated Nikolai shabbily until her death. To me, that signifies that which does not go away - the "problem" of his non-royal birth.

Let's clarify, too, that there is no evidence that GD Olga and Nikolai were lovers before they married. True, an affair is an affair, but Olga having Nikolai's child while married to Peter would've been disastrous for her.

I didn't say or mean to imply that they were--it was the living together, and accompanying gossip I was referring to. "By 1906, he and Olga were corresponding regularly, when Olga's husband Duke Peter appointed Kulikovsky as his aide-de-camp. With Peter's permission, Kulikovsky moved into the 200-room residence in Sergievskaya Street, Saint Petersburg, that Peter shared with Olga. According to a fellow officer, gossip about a possible romance between Kulikovsky and the Grand Duchess, based on little more than their holding hands in public, spread through high society." Given that this was 1906 and Olga and Peter didn't separate until 8 years later, that was a long time for something so unusual to go on.  I have no doubt that the majority of the ill-treatment of NK was due to his 'inferior' birth. However, I can't imagine in the times in which they all lived, and with all the attendant hypocrisy and double standards towards women reaching beyond an unhappy marriage (either through an affair, a divorce, or whatever), that the widely-known situation was very popular within the family.

That's the other thing that tells me Olga's family's treatment of Nikolai might not have had much to do directly with the "arrangement" - it was with Peter's full knowledge and permission! This would not have "condoned" the relationship in the eyes of MF, Xenia, and whoever else, but I'm not certain they would have continued to treat him the way they did, *years* after the fact, after he'd already proven both his loyalty to the family and his love for Olga herself, because of this.

Quote
As a side note, does anyone know what happened to Nikolai's family after the revolution? It mentions the couple visiting them after their marriage so they were alive then. Being related to the late Emperor's sister couldn't have made them too popular.

I can't remember what exactly Olga said, but she made reference of visits by or to his family in "25 Chapters Of My Life". I think she also mentioned receiving news of the death of Nikolai's father, after they'd left Russia. I'd have to look again for the exact quote.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Chris_H on July 12, 2013, 04:26:13 AM
why did the marriage between Olga and Peter fall apart? 
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on July 12, 2013, 09:42:36 PM
Well...it didn't get off to an auspicious start. First, there's the question, still debated, of just how much control Olga herself had. By her account, she was completely surprised at Peter's proposal, and the quote from Nicholas II's letter to his mother referenced by grandduchessella supports that - even her own brother was shocked!

Then, on their wedding night, according to Olga, he went off and did whatever it was he usually did, leaving her alone.

There is also some question if the marriage was ever consummated, given that there were no children. It has also been stated that Peter was homosexual.

It all just boils down to...they just didn't love each other.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 16, 2013, 12:45:54 AM
Yes they did not love each other, but there was a friendship between them.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Inok Nikolai on July 24, 2013, 01:15:09 PM
Under the thread on Grand Duchess Maria Nicholaevna's letters and notes at
http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=5485.msg509551#msg509551
 
I posted some light-hearted excerpts from the book "Most-august Sisters of Mercy", which was reviewed on the Alexander Palace Time Machine site:
http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/books.html?sku=64.

Recently, while searching for a certain passage in that book, I came across this other one (p. 262) which always makes me chuckle.

(When one is a member of a royal family, I suppose that the adulation shown by others to you and your close family relatives must seem a bit ridiculous at times. After all, to you, they are just your dear brother, sister, cousin, etc.)

Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, while serving as a Red Cross nurse at the front during WW I, would write long, chatty, letters to her nieces. Here is a funny excerpt from one of them.

"Rovno, October 6, 1914

My Dear Fat Little Darling Maria,

...Vera Titova took for a souvenir the pen with which your Papa signed our guest book when he visited us. And her friend, Vera Pommerg took the chair on which his ar-e had sat for all of two minutes, and she tied a rose-colored bow on its back and is zealously guarding it, lest anyone else should touch it...

Your affectionate Aunt Olga"

Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: blessOTMA on July 24, 2013, 06:54:15 PM
Under the thread on Grand Duchess Maria Nicholaevna's letters and notes at
http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=5485.msg509551#msg509551


"Rovno, October 6, 1914

My Dear Fat Little Darling Maria,

...Vera Titova took for a souvenir the pen with which your Papa signed our guest book when he visited us. And her friend, Vera Pommerg took the chair on which his ar-e had sat for all of two minutes, and she tied a rose-colored bow on its back and is zealously guarding it, lest anyone else should touch it...

Your affectionate Aunt Olga"



I think that is just the sort of letter Marie would enjoy  lol Thank you for posting it
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: edubs31 on July 24, 2013, 07:42:13 PM
Perhaps a silly observation here and I apologize in advance for momentarily taking us off topic, but I have to ask...

Was making an issue of and then poking fun at someone's weight at the time not viewed the same way then as it is now? What I mean is, people criticize others for their size all of the time in our age. Weight in general is considered a major problem for health reasons, such as chronic obesity. It's hurtful to make "fat" jokes, and nothing funny about carrying a few extra pounds.

Between Olga, in what I can only imagine as being an attempt at humor, calling her niece a 'Fat Little Darling', Rodzianko being referred to as the "Fattest Man in Russia", Alexandra referring to Anna Vyrubova as "the Cow", and then making lite fun of Anastasia having packed on a few extra pounds during captivity (among various other reference I've seen), I'd say their generation had a strange preoccupation with weight.

The interesting thing about it all is that none of it ever seems to be done with malicious intent. Perhaps just an acceptable form of humor that even the heavy one's themselves found amusing and comforting?

One final observation...I find their attitude towards weight all the more strange given the time period. In their day and age I wouldn't think that anyone would be singled out as having a weight problem unless perhaps they were grossly obese. Now in the age of "skinny = sexy" I can see it being made into a big issue (no pun intended). But look at top models from decades ago! They'd almost all be considered overweight by today's standards. I look at Maria Nikolaevna and I see a solidly built girl, but certainly not a fat one...and that's coming from me living in the 21st century.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on July 24, 2013, 09:52:38 PM
Ah, but don't forget, that's a translation. There are all kinds of other words one can substitute for "fat". I see what you're saying, and in the 21st century, you're absolutely right. But even in my parents' generation, it was common for comments to be made about a woman's figure. Things like "You don't need a second piece of cake."

Rodzianko, of course, is the exception here, given that he's not a woman. But in a country full of hungry people, a portly man would certainly have been noticeable!
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on July 24, 2013, 09:55:30 PM
Under the thread on Grand Duchess Maria Nicholaevna's letters and notes at
http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=5485.msg509551#msg509551
 
I posted some light-hearted excerpts from the book "Most-august Sisters of Mercy", which was reviewed on the Alexander Palace Time Machine site:
http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/books.html?sku=64.

Recently, while searching for a certain passage in that book, I came across this other one (p. 262) which always makes me chuckle.

(When one is a member of a royal family, I suppose that the adulation shown by others to you and your close family relatives must seem a bit ridiculous at times. After all, to you, they are just your dear brother, sister, cousin, etc.)

Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, while serving as a Red Cross nurse at the front during WW I, would write long, chatty, letters to her nieces. Here is a funny excerpt from one of them.

"Rovno, October 6, 1914

My Dear Fat Little Darling Maria,

...Vera Titova took for a souvenir the pen with which your Papa signed our guest book when he visited us. And her friend, Vera Pommerg took the chair on which his ar-e had sat for all of two minutes, and she tied a rose-colored bow on its back and is zealously guarding it, lest anyone else should touch it...

Your affectionate Aunt Olga"



Thanks, Inok Nikolai. That makes me smile. I read this letter in "25 Chapters Of My Life." To GD Olga A, he was just her brother. To those nurses, he was a celebrity.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on July 25, 2013, 04:27:11 AM
This made me smile too.

I note that my father has never quite recovered from meeting Princess Anne nearly 30 years ago. He has been a devoted fan ever since, and the group picture of the occasion (Princess Anne centre front, and my father in the rear rank) has pride of place in the dining room.

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: katmaxoz on August 11, 2013, 05:53:00 AM
Grand duchess Olga in court dress. This is a full length version of the image which has floated around for years with the secondary photo insert on the right hand side of the picture.  I was very pleased to finally find this image.

http://carolathhabsburg.tumblr.com/post/55870347739/gdss-olga-alexandrovna-in-court-gown-1900s





Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Jen_94 on August 11, 2013, 06:04:54 AM
That is a beautiful image! Thanks for posting.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 11, 2013, 09:38:23 PM
I think there is another shot of Olga sitting down...
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on August 12, 2013, 10:51:01 AM
YEs, this one

(http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/752/z0ld.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/89/z0ld.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: katmaxoz on August 12, 2013, 04:00:25 PM
I think these were taken for the 1906 Duma which is the last time we saw all the royal ladies in court dress on display.

Olga in the same dress and jewels standing behind her mother at the 1906 Duma

(http://i40.tinypic.com/nq4t3q.jpg)

I've never seen a photo of this dress before and there's a good chance it hasn't survived though a surprising number of imperial court dresses still survive.



Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 13, 2013, 02:52:09 AM
This photo also included Alicky & Miechen.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: edubs31 on August 13, 2013, 01:59:14 PM
This photo also included Alicky & Miechen.

Is that Alexandra standing immediately to the left of OA & MF?

This is the full version of that photo, although not very good quality; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-H28740,_St._Petersburg,_Er%C3%B6ffnung_der_Parlamente.jpg
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on August 13, 2013, 09:10:15 PM
In the cropped photo? No, that's Ksenia.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: edubs31 on August 13, 2013, 09:35:23 PM
In the cropped photo? No, that's Ksenia.

No in the expanded photo. Xenia is standing to the right of Dagmar and Olga. I'm saying who is the person to the left of them. Out of the picture? I think it's Alix but I could be wrong.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 14, 2013, 03:23:27 PM
It was Alix.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on August 14, 2013, 09:48:52 PM
In the cropped photo? No, that's Ksenia.

No in the expanded photo. Xenia is standing to the right of Dagmar and Olga. I'm saying who is the person to the left of them. Out of the picture? I think it's Alix but I could be wrong.

Sorry, I confused "standing to the left of" with "standing ON the left". That looks like Alix to me.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 17, 2013, 03:28:39 AM
It was Alix.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: katmaxoz on August 17, 2013, 06:58:50 PM
This photo also included Alicky & Miechen.

Is that Alexandra standing immediately to the left of OA & MF?

This is the full version of that photo, although not very good quality; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-H28740,_St._Petersburg,_Er%C3%B6ffnung_der_Parlamente.jpg

There are two images of the full court from this session from the same angle. One shows everyone except Nicholas and his immediate family standing and the next one is the one you have linked to.  There's also a third photo which shows the arrival of Nicholas, Alexandra and Marie though its hard to find good quality versions of the full set.

Before Nicholas arrival:

(http://i42.tinypic.com/do5ekh.jpg)

http://tinypic.com/m/fxw788/3

Nicholas and Alexandra arrival

(http://i39.tinypic.com/i3w7ko.jpg)

http://tinypic.com/m/fxw8ht/3

During speach - this is the image the crop came from though the crop was done by someone else

(http://i44.tinypic.com/289xu8m.jpg)

http://tinypic.com/m/fxw8ic/3

Olga is on the left hand side of the image - there are a number of photos around showing the ladies in this image in the dresses they wear here including Olga.

Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: edubs31 on August 17, 2013, 10:11:51 PM
Terrific Katmaxoz, thanks you!
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Jen_94 on August 19, 2013, 06:44:20 PM
Beautiful images, thank you for posting!
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 20, 2013, 06:43:11 PM
Olga did not enjoy dressing up so there only few of her in court & ball dresses. There isn't a photo of her first wedding...
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Svetabel on September 17, 2013, 07:36:39 AM
Portrait of 1905 year

(http://www.picatom.com/2a/1905-5-th.jpg) (http://www.picatom.com/2a/1905-5.html)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 17, 2013, 11:12:29 AM
She looks nice in that pretty dress. I wonder if the Palace still has some of her clothes ?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Jen_94 on September 18, 2013, 01:14:10 PM
Agreed! Lovely portrait.

She looks nice in that pretty dress. I wonder if the Palace still has some of her clothes ?


That would be interesting to know....
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 18, 2013, 04:28:56 PM
I think the court dresses maybe...
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Jen_94 on September 19, 2013, 12:52:58 PM
Hopefully someone here knows the answer!
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Arkhimago on December 07, 2013, 05:31:16 PM

historyfan Offline
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Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
 Reply with quote 

"History Fan" queried a few months ago.....
THANK you, Carolath Habsburg, for the larger images! Now, can anyone identify the bald gentleman with the mustache who is facing Marie Feodorovna? The woman in the foreground is obviously one of Olga's fellow nursing sisters, but what about the man of whom you can only see the top half of his face, on the far right? Who's he?, and
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The bald mustachioed gentleman facing the Dowager Empress in that photo is her godson, and also my grandfather. He was an officer in GDO's Hussar regiment, who happened to be posted nearby.

I have attached a photograph of a regimental picnic a few years earlier at our estate in the Ukraine. You can see him seated on the ground in the front row, second from the left.
Directly behind him, and sitting to the left of the regimental batushka, is HIS father, and my great grandfather, a senior officer in that same regiment.
I have only recently discovered this larger full photo. All that we have ever had was the two of them cut out of the original image. I wish it was even larger so that I could see what our manor house in the background, actually looked like. They must have annoyed Stalin somehow, since he personally directed it to be completely demolished. If anyone has any other photos from this event, please contact me.
I do not know who the other gentleman is to Kulikovsky's left? Perhaps like grandpa, he was a fellow officer wrangled in to hold the wedding crowns over the heads of the bride and groom.

I have always thought this photo clearly shows how completely annoyed the dowager empress was to even have to be there ;-) Although it was the fashion for ladies to keep their hats on at the time, she is also wearing her coat, giving the impression that: "Well ok. I will just sit down for a few minutes to have a cup of tea, but I can't stay!"  ;)


 http://s017.radikal.ru/i406/1209/d8/1595298d566d.jpg

(http://s017.radikal.ru/i406/1209/d8/1595298d566d.jpg)




 

 
 
 


 
 
 

 

 
 
 
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Chris_H on December 18, 2013, 07:55:19 AM
I love the 1905 portrait! 
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: rosieposie on December 19, 2013, 03:36:06 AM
Olga A was beautiful,  not a classic beauty but she had a beautiful essence about her.    She had a lovely smile,  and I too could sense sadness from her during the engagement photos.   It's not just the expression, it's the body language,  I would feel strange being betrothed to a man who was way to old for me.    A fascinating woman who lived through many events in her life and died a happy lady with a humble ending. 

I wonder what her thoughts were towards the movie "Anastasia" (Ingrid Bergman)? 
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Chris_H on December 19, 2013, 06:56:52 AM
I also think that Olga was beautiful.  I feel that she also had a kind and approachable way to her. 
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on December 19, 2013, 07:02:46 AM
I think Olga A would have been horrified by the Ingrid Bergman film. After all, she had to cope with numerous fraudulent Anastasias (and others). She seems in fact to have felt sorry for Anna Anderson, and at times unsure whether she really was an imposter. Films like that must have been hard to bear.

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on December 19, 2013, 08:52:03 AM
A number of years ago, three young girls were murdered in a city not far from here. The perpetrators were a man and his wife. They were both sent to prison but because of a plea bargain, the wife got a reduced sentence.

Some years after the fact, it came out in the news that someone wanted to make a movie of the case. The reaction of the public, particularly from the city where this all took place, was extremely negative.

I can only imagine that movies such as Anastasia would have inspired a similar reaction in Olga and other surviving family members.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: rosieposie on January 01, 2014, 04:47:50 AM
That would be understandable.    Sometimes as a movie watcher who likes to watch true event movies we often forget about the families and people who the movies are based off.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 01, 2014, 08:51:36 PM
Yes. But it is an international story that involves many people and not just the family...
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on January 01, 2014, 09:58:48 PM
So what? They don't deserve to be sensationalized any more than anyone else.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on January 02, 2014, 02:59:46 AM
They also don't deserve inaccuracy.

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on January 02, 2014, 09:10:24 AM
Poor Olga had had enough of inaccuracy in her life. According to her biography, pretty much everything she read about her brother and his family was false to some degree.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Arkhimago on January 02, 2014, 05:52:56 PM
The Grand Duchess and her husband met Helen Hayes, privately, in Toronto in 1958, not long before Colonel Kulikovsky passed away. I do not know what her reaction to the film was overall, but she did praise Ms. Hayes for her uncannily accurate portrayal of the Dowager Empress, as did many others who knew her,most especially Queen Elizabeth (the Queen Mother) who was herself, a mere few months older than Ms. Hayes.
Aside from the incredibly similar appearance and stature, the actress also naturally adopted Empress Marie's posture and demeanour with uncanny accuracy.
I know there are photos of that event, but I am not certain if the two of them appear together in any? If so, I shall post them.
Do consider also that although Grand Duchess Olga was not interviewed for background info for that film, other family members were, and thusly influenced the scriptwriters to make the story more of an epilogue (ie:, not reenacting the gory preamble) in deference to, the then numerous still living family members, which is how it did play out in the final production. And other than the fictitious "presentation" parties in the film, the "vetting" process of the apparent Anastasia was also quite accurate.

On an interesting aside, Hayes involvement in this film led to her great interest in Russian history, and  later in life, Helen Hayes met & befriended Princess Vera Konstantinovna of Russia, who was living in retirement in near by Valley Farm, not far from her own home in Nyack, NY, just outside of New York City.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on January 03, 2014, 03:09:16 AM
Interesting. Did the Queen Mother meet Marie Feodorovna? If so, it must have been after her marriage in 1923.

Regards

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on January 03, 2014, 08:10:26 AM
The Grand Duchess and her husband met Helen Hayes, privately, in Toronto in 1958, not long before Colonel Kulikovsky passed away. I do not know what her reaction to the film was overall, but she did praise Ms. Hayes for her uncannily accurate portrayal of the Dowager Empress, as did many others who knew her,most especially Queen Elizabeth (the Queen Mother) who was herself, a mere few months older than Ms. Hayes.
Aside from the incredibly similar appearance and stature, the actress also naturally adopted Empress Marie's posture and demeanour with uncanny accuracy.
I know there are photos of that event, but I am not certain if the two of them appear together in any? If so, I shall post them.
Do consider also that although Grand Duchess Olga was not interviewed for background info for that film, other family members were, and thusly influenced the scriptwriters to make the story more of an epilogue (ie:, not reenacting the gory preamble) in deference to, the then numerous still living family members, which is how it did play out in the final production. And other than the fictitious "presentation" parties in the film, the "vetting" process of the apparent Anastasia was also quite accurate.

On an interesting aside, Hayes involvement in this film led to her great interest in Russian history, and  later in life, Helen Hayes met & befriended Princess Vera Konstantinovna of Russia, who was living in retirement in near by Valley Farm, not far from her own home in Nyack, NY, just outside of New York City.

I didn't know that. Is that documented anywhere?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Arkhimago on January 03, 2014, 09:50:39 AM
History Fan wrote: "I didn't know that. Is that documented anywhere?"

With all due respect to your learned seniority of all themes imperial, I believe that I just DID "document" the items noted in my last post. ;-)

And to Kalafrana: I do not know the timing of that one? 
It is completely viable that Lady Elizabeth Bowes Lyons might have met such an august personage prior to her regal marriage?
 
In any event, I will guess that either History Fan or Eric Lowe will be confirming this for us shortly.
(Although from the latter with perhaps a somewhat more... abstract veracity  :)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Arkhimago on January 03, 2014, 10:11:47 AM
HistoryFan wrote:
Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion

"Poor Olga had had enough of inaccuracy in her life. According to her biography, pretty much everything she read about her brother and his family was false to some degree."

I will concur with HistoryFan completely on this one.
 Other than "The Last Grand Duchess" by Vorres, pretty much everything (including many recent works) is rife with inaccuracies.

I may have mentioned here a few years ago that I have a marked up revision proof of the pre press draft for this book.
There are few stroke outs, and merely a lot of addenda by those privy to the events mentioned, to colour in and expand upon HIH's recollections.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on January 03, 2014, 10:40:17 AM
'It is completely viable that Lady Elizabeth Bowes Lyons might have met such an august personage prior to her regal marriage?'

I don't know. Lady Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon (correct spelling) was certainly moving in London society in the period 1919-23, but I think it more likely that any meeting with the Dowager Empress would have been after her marriage. Did Marie F attend Queen Alexandra's funeral? That would have been a logical occasion for them to meet. Alternatively, did the Duke and Duchess of York visit Denmark?

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Svetabel on January 03, 2014, 11:20:27 AM
'It is completely viable that Lady Elizabeth Bowes Lyons might have met such an august personage prior to her regal marriage?'

I don't know. Lady Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon (correct spelling) was certainly moving in London society in the period 1919-23, but I think it more likely that any meeting with the Dowager Empress would have been after her marriage. Did Marie F attend Queen Alexandra's funeral? That would have been a logical occasion for them to meet. Alternatively, did the Duke and Duchess of York visit Denmark?

Ann


Empress Marie didn't attend Queen Alexandra's funeral. As for Lady Elizabeth they did met with MF, the Empress mentioned this in her diary - I can't say exactly the date, need to look through the text of the diaries.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Arkhimago on January 03, 2014, 11:48:40 AM
Thanks Svetabel for confirming that.
I never knew how, when or where, the late Queen Mother might have experienced the Dowager Empress' persona to have elicited her kudos of Ms Hayes accurate portrayal of her regal relation in that film.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on January 03, 2014, 11:57:19 AM
History Fan wrote: "I didn't know that. Is that documented anywhere?"

With all due respect to your learned seniority of all themes imperial, I believe that I just DID "document" the items noted in my last post. ;-)


Sorry. : ) I meant anywhere else.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Arkhimago on January 03, 2014, 12:27:39 PM
I do not think it would be documented anywhere else, if at all, unless some other forum member was in attendance at that same picnic, and/or dinner, and/or ball, and happened to note it in this forum.
,
And with cryptic regard, might I perhaps respectfully suggest you read the last paragraph of my posting here on February 6th of 2010.    :)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: grandduchessella on January 03, 2014, 04:24:28 PM
'It is completely viable that Lady Elizabeth Bowes Lyons might have met such an august personage prior to her regal marriage?'

I don't know. Lady Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon (correct spelling) was certainly moving in London society in the period 1919-23, but I think it more likely that any meeting with the Dowager Empress would have been after her marriage. Did Marie F attend Queen Alexandra's funeral? That would have been a logical occasion for them to meet. Alternatively, did the Duke and Duchess of York visit Denmark?

Ann


I believe that the Dowager Empress attended her wedding. If it wasn't hers, it was Princess Mary's--and Elizabeth was an attendant in that one.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on January 03, 2014, 06:25:58 PM
History Fan wrote: "I didn't know that. Is that documented anywhere?"

With all due respect to your learned seniority of all themes imperial, I believe that I just DID "document" the items noted in my last post. ;-)

And to Kalafrana: I do not know the timing of that one? 
It is completely viable that Lady Elizabeth Bowes Lyons might have met such an august personage prior to her regal marriage?
 
In any event, I will guess that either History Fan or Eric Lowe will be confirming this for us shortly.
(Although from the latter with perhaps a somewhat more... abstract veracity  :)

I'm not sure why I deserve such snide remarks. In no way do I mean to imply I have any sort of "learned seniority" of anything, regardless of theme. I'm simply an admirer of the Grand Duchess.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Arkhimago on January 03, 2014, 08:41:23 PM

   
"I didn't know that. Is that documented anywhere?" actually DID imply a learned superiority as if you were in complete doubt of it because as YOU were not aware of it, then the info might be of dubious provenance.

It was not my intent to be snide, as I am sure yours was not to appear all-knowing. Perhaps they were merely unconscious traits of us Kniazes. lol

In any event, you now have your references along with some original source material, and should I unearth them, maybe some photographic proof.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on January 03, 2014, 08:49:15 PM
And there's the greatest problem with the written word - I really did want to know if anyone had previously written about it. What you wrote is very interesting, and I don't doubt you at all. I apologize for seeming as though I did, and thank you for your reply.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on January 04, 2014, 03:41:18 AM
Back to Romanov matters.

According to John van der Kiste's book on Xenia, Marie F visited Queen Alexandra at Sandringham in January 1922, but this was before Lady Elizabeth and the Duke of York were engaged, so I  doubt that there could have been a meeting then.

The Duke of York did attend Marie F's funeral, but no mention in van d Kiste's of the Duchess.

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Vecchiolarry on January 04, 2014, 07:37:37 AM
Hi,

Yes, the Dowager Empress did attend the York's wedding.

In Coryne Hall's excellent book, "Little Mother of Russia", on page 336 she records:
'On 26th April 1923 she was present at a wedding of unrecognized significance when The King's second son Albert, Duke of York, married Lady Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon at Westminster Abbey.  Afterward Dagmar joined the Royal Family on the balconyof Buckingham Palace.'

Afterward she fell ill and stayed at Marlborough House with Alexandra for the entire summer and returned to Denmark in late August.  She never returned to Britain again and Alexandra never visited Denmark again.

On page 351, Ms. Hall says that the Duke attended her funeral in Denmark but not the Duchess.

I believe I remember that The Queen Mother visited King Olav in Norway in the 80's and Queen Ingrid in Denmark then also.  It was a news item on TV and the papers at the time.

Larry
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on January 05, 2014, 04:39:01 AM
Larry

Many thanks.

Perhaps the Duke and Duchess also visited Marie F during her time at Marlborough House. Clearly she must have made quite an impression on the Duchess.

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Vecchiolarry on January 05, 2014, 09:18:13 AM
Hi Ann,

Yes, I would imagine that the Yorks would make a courtesy call, or maybe more, on his grandmother and his great-aunt at Marlborough House - even just for tea!!
That was the thing one did back then in polite society.

Also, I would think that the Dowager Empress would have visited her daughter, Xenia, and perhaps the Yorks would vivit her too...
There were several occasions for them all to meet each other - just guessing of course...

Larry
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on January 05, 2014, 10:24:01 AM
Indeed. All that makes perfect sense.

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 07, 2014, 11:06:54 AM
I wonder what MF thought of Xenia's situation.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on January 07, 2014, 11:22:07 AM
To judge from van der Kiste's book, she wasn't very happy about it - not surprisingly.

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: grandduchessella on January 07, 2014, 06:21:04 PM
It's time to steer the topic back to Olga--not start a new discussion on Xenia. Thanks. :)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Svetabel on January 08, 2014, 02:52:41 AM
I wonder what MF thought of Xenia's situation.

Please do wonder this at the proper thread!
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 08, 2014, 11:17:54 AM
I mean in comparison to Olga's situation. There is no need to be mean.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Svetabel on January 08, 2014, 01:22:29 PM
I mean in comparison to Olga's situation. There is no need to be mean.

There is a NEED to be more clear in your words. If you meant a comparison just say about this at once, not after someone or many people begin to think 'oh,what did he mean'  - we are not magicians to guess right your thoughts. You do this very often, just at "Ella and Sergei 2" thread is the same situation, other posters have to think and imagine the meanings of your suggestions and revelations. You know it doesn't enliven the discussion but makes it difficult and annoying.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 09, 2014, 10:27:05 AM
There is a difference between clarification and rudeness. You can be assertive without being short. It is natural to compare the situation of her daughters as they are very different. Xenia unhappy and separated from her husband and children and Olga with her family yet still treated less because of the unequal station of their status.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Arkhimago on January 09, 2014, 06:50:06 PM
Eric:

How DO you possibly concoct these fantastic segues into the absurd? lol

And how is it that you are inferring that Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, and her sister GD Xenia were of unequal status???

And thusly....how is it, and by whom is it perceived to be "natural" to compare?
And who do you believe was comparing, and to what purpose?

And if you are suggesting that GD Olga's children might have been regarded as common by anyone other than their granny, are you forgetting that they lived in Denmark where they were, above all, the great-grandsons of King Christian IX, and cousins to the regnant monarch?
And, that this was a foreign country which would have little use or interest in the dynastic validity or, the honorifics of a defunct empire.

I am not privy to GD Xenias situation, nor is this thread about her, however I can factually assert that HIH Olga Alexandrovna lived how, and where she did by HER choice. She had many offers presented to her following the passing of her husband, two of which were to return to either Demark or to England, and she had several options of where to live in and around Toronto, all of which she declined.

Like many seniors, she enjoyed her independence, her garden, and her pets. She delighted in spending her days painting, going for long walks, and visiting her many friends. It was only in her final days that she went (by her choice) to stay with friends where she could hear comforting Russian voices, and smell the aromas of Russian food, rather than to convalesce in the hospital. Do understand also that she was in complete possession of her mental faculties until mere days before the end. She had resigned herself to her final days and was quite happy and at peace.

Regretfully, her story was later twisted to proclaim that she "died in poverty" from more contemporary accounts of her life. The house she passed away in, is perhaps right now, in a more run down part of the city, but this was certainly not the case in 1960, nor was she "poor" at the time. Her bed was placed in a large sunny well appointed bedroom, where her every need was attended to. (This is the room you see in the photographs in the second floor, on the left side, with the large bay window). Prior to that, her Cooksville home was in a prosperous area, and despite not being large, was custom built for her (and remains to this day oddly preserved & un-altered, but now surrounded by modern McMansions) amidst a large garden, which she enjoyed immensely. It was well looked after, both inside and out by friends and family & hired help as required, and she received visitors often, as well as accepting invitations for dinners and weekends away. Basically, she was a typical senior citizen(with above-average knick-knacks ;-)

She was a Russian Grand Duchess to her dying day, and was regarded as such in the Russian community where she attended church, and banquets and charity balls with regularity, as well as by her various royal cousins from across the pond who also visited her often.


And finally, (and although I hesitate to conjecture without basis as you always seem to do) GD Olga lived at Hvidovre, with her family (and at her mother's insistence & her beck & call) whereas GD Xenia, "en famille", lived in far off London, hence "out of sight- and out of mind".
Although she treated Colonel Kulikovsky as a commoner, she certainly didn't think of her youngest daughter that way, nor at all in-equal to her sister.
I am puzzled why you even find that worthy of noting? Even if it were true or germane initially it may have not stayed that way.

I do know first hand, her grandson Tikhon actually had warm & fond memories of the dowager empress, for above all else, she was a grandmother.

Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Превед on January 09, 2014, 08:56:30 PM
was it because and I hate to say it like this, please forgive me, that Olga's second husband was not royalty or nobility?  Or was it, as in some people, that you just don't like the in law?

Imperial Russia was an extremely hierarchic and stratified society, so it's no problem stating the obvious: That a conservative like the Dowager Empress would have huge problems with her daughter marrying a subject. Obviously she preferred a homosexual, gambling junior prince from a reigning family. (I assume she knew all about his proclivities from Okhrana reports.)

But mind you, Kullikovskiy was of impeccable nobility, going back to at least the 16th century, of Wallachian origin. (BTW the Kullikovskiys were big landowners in the Ukraine - and Borki (of railway accidental fame) was one of their estates.)

Titles meant little in themselves in Imperial Russia and he would hardly have been more aristocratic if he had been a baron or a count. Being a prince could be a step up, because it could signify descent from a fomerly reigning house, Rurikid or foreign. (As was the case with the original, male-line Yusupovs, descended from the Khans of Siberia, who were listed in the third, non-dynastic section of the Gotha. The modern Yusupov line, the Counts Sumarakov-Elston dits Yusupov were not more aristocratic or ancient than the Kullikovskiys.)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Arkhimago on January 09, 2014, 10:03:51 PM
Preved napisal:  "Imperial Russia was an extremely hierarchic and stratified society"
                         and then he wrote: "Titles meant little in themselves in Imperial Russia"
                         So..make up your mind? Which is it? lol

The reason that Empress Marie " preferred a homosexual, gambling junior prince from a reigning family" was because this "mama's boy" was the only son of her best friend, Princess Eugenia Maximilianovna of Leuchtenberg, Duchess of Oldenbourg

And to quote the latter grand lady's Wikipedia entry verbatim: "Eugenia had a long-standing friendship with Empress Maria Feodorovna, and the two helped arrange the marriage of Eugenia's son to Marie's daughter, Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna."

It suited both their purposes in that it would keep Olga close to her mother (Marie already had quite enough grandchildren), and Peter close to Eugenie, hence the wedding gift of the Olgino property right next to Ramogne (although she no doubt DID hope for grand children, and especially an heir for the Oldenbourg ducal line!)

I always thought that the Dowager Empress did not as much dislike Kulikovsky as she was annoyed with Olga for messing up her "grand plan".
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on January 09, 2014, 10:48:27 PM
I always thought that the Dowager Empress did not as much dislike Kulikovsky as she was annoyed with Olga for messing up her "grand plan".

I agree with you. The Dowager Empress did have kind things to say about Kulikovsky from time to time, such as when she wrote in a letter that Olga was "very happy" with him. Things like that stand out to me, because why mention it at all if she disliked the man for himself?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Svetabel on January 10, 2014, 01:22:01 AM
I always thought that the Dowager Empress did not as much dislike Kulikovsky as she was annoyed with Olga for messing up her "grand plan".

I agree with you. The Dowager Empress did have kind things to say about Kulikovsky from time to time, such as when she wrote in a letter that Olga was "very happy" with him. Things like that stand out to me, because why mention it at all if she disliked the man for himself?

The selfish Empress with her over-possessivness in relations with her children never hide the fact she didn't like Kulikovskiy. At least her diary is the best source on this. She nursed a grievance on Kulikosvskiy after Olga and her family didn't go with her to England in 1919, but some months before went their own way to the South of Russia. The Empress was sure that was Kulikovskiy idea and he wanted to separate mother and daughter! In her diary she complained on her son-in-law like a little girl who was not permitted to play with her favourite toy...She just didn't want to let Olga live her own adult life without selfish 'maman' by her side, the Empress was quite clear in her complaints: Kulikovskiy caused sorrow to her.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on January 10, 2014, 03:34:48 AM
Preved napisal:  "Imperial Russia was an extremely hierarchic and stratified society"
                         and then he wrote: "Titles meant little in themselves in Imperial Russia"
                         So..make up your mind? Which is it? lol


Is what is meant that if a person was a member of an old noble family it didn't really matter whether he had a title or not?

Arkhimago
I'm most interested in what you have to say about Olga's life in Canada. She was clearly an unpretentious person who preferred to live a modest livestyle, which is not at all the same thing as poverty.

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: rosieposie on January 10, 2014, 03:38:12 AM
My heart goes to Olga,  she was Queen Victoria's Beatrice.   Marie wanting to have Olga to herself sometimes there is family members like that in most families.   You can see how happy Olga was on finally getting with Nicolai in their wedding photos.  The photos of a young Olga looking depressed behind those eyes at her engagement with her first husband is on the deep end of the scale to the happy vibrant smiles she has of her wedding photos to Nicolai.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Превед on January 10, 2014, 09:28:15 AM
Preved napisal:  "Imperial Russia was an extremely hierarchic and stratified society"
                         and then he wrote: "Titles meant little in themselves in Imperial Russia"
                         So..make up your mind? Which is it? lol


Is what is meant that if a person was a member of an old noble family it didn't really matter whether he had a title or not?

Yes. What mattered was wealth (earlier measured in serfs' souls) and чин (service rank).
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Превед on January 10, 2014, 03:47:06 PM
PS The Russian Empire was quite unique among European monarchies by not giving any section of the titled aristocracy an inherent place in the official order of precedence. 
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Janet Ashton on January 11, 2014, 05:15:55 AM
I always thought that the Dowager Empress did not as much dislike Kulikovsky as she was annoyed with Olga for messing up her "grand plan".

I agree with you. The Dowager Empress did have kind things to say about Kulikovsky from time to time, such as when she wrote in a letter that Olga was "very happy" with him. Things like that stand out to me, because why mention it at all if she disliked the man for himself?

The selfish Empress with her over-possessivness in relations with her children never hide the fact she didn't like Kulikovskiy. At least her diary is the best source on this. She nursed a grievance on Kulikosvskiy after Olga and her family didn't go with her to England in 1919, but some months before went their own way to the South of Russia. The Empress was sure that was Kulikovskiy idea and he wanted to separate mother and daughter! In her diary she complained on her son-in-law like a little girl who was not permitted to play with her favourite toy...She just didn't want to let Olga live her own adult life without selfish 'maman' by her side, the Empress was quite clear in her complaints: Kulikovskiy caused sorrow to her.

Olga mentions the 1919 problems in the memoir that became "Twenty Five Chapters of My Life." It is otherwise extremely discreet about her family relationships - unlike the work she did with Vorres - but she DOES mention her mother's enormous paddy over the decision to stay in Russia. It obviously left painful scars.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on January 11, 2014, 10:22:32 PM
An interesting find! https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=633442830038317&set=a.124297104286228.15365.113360175379921&type=1&theater
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 14, 2014, 12:46:50 PM
What surprised me was the lack of affection between Olga & Xenia, very different from their mother & Queen Alexandra. 
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Arkhimago on January 14, 2014, 02:50:49 PM
Eric вообразил

"What surprised me was the lack of affection between Olga & Xenia, very different from their mother & Queen Alexandra."

How are you inferring this & where have you discovered a documented measure of the Grand Duchesses filial affections toward one another?
And even if that were to be true, all four parties are individuals.  What correlation is there between the two pairs, and thusly why would you assume that one pair would mimic the others level of devotion?

The two Empresses were barely three years apart in age, whereas Grand Duchess Olga was only twelve years old when her much elder sister was already married and starting a family. Despite that and the distances that separated them they were in close communication even speaking on the telephone with each periodically until shortly before their deaths. Did you forget that they were the only remaining siblings each other had left?
Even with privy knowledge of the frequency and volume of their interaction, I would never deign to presume ones personal regard for the other.

What surprises me is your lack of comprehension that affection is bound by neither time nor distance & remains as immutable as it is inscrutable.

(... I am quite certain that their must be a pithy русская выражение that sums my latter sentiment much better than this banal attempt at it ;-)


Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: edubs31 on January 14, 2014, 04:08:25 PM
Quote
How are you inferring this & where have you discovered a documented measure of the Grand Duchesses filial affections toward one another? And even if that were to be true, all four parties are individuals.  What correlation is there between the two pairs, and thusly why would you assume that one pair would mimic the others level of devotion?

Perhaps Eric is making an incorrect assumption. I would however like to take what he wrote and rephrase it as more of a question. You mention phone calls between the two but is there anything in their written correspondence, or from diary entries, the accounts of others, etc, that suggest they were particularly close and affectionate towards one another?

Their personalities always seemed different to me and they lived far apart in exile. The eight year difference in age was an important factor early in their lives, as you point out, but I'd have to wager far less so once Olga reached adulthood and married. Sandro died in 1933, meaning Xenia was a widow for the last 27-years of her life. One might think this would encourage her to reach out to her only sibling more often. How often, if ever, did the two see each other post-exile? I'm just asking some questions here...

Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on January 14, 2014, 07:10:28 PM
Age difference has a lot to do with the roles that siblings have in one another's lives. My mother is the oldest of three, whose sisters are 8 and 13 years younger. I am the oldest of three, whose sisters are 3 years younger. My mother's role in her sisters' lives was more like that of a mother than a sister, whereas my sisters and I behaved like sisters - fighting, sharing things, etc.

Does it matter in terms of the level of affection we all feel for one another? Not a bit. The way that affection is shown is different between anyone, and really can't be compared. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm not privy to letters between Olga and Xenia in their adult years. I can't tell at all what their feelings were for one another. I am curious about Xenia's opinion of Col Kulikovsky - did she share her mother's, or was she a little more objective?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: grandduchessella on January 14, 2014, 07:21:12 PM
I would agree--age probably paid a large role in their relationship. So did their different personalities. Perhaps the sisters didn't talk/write/visit that much after exile but that doesn't necessary indicate a lack of affection--just a lack of common ground. I love my sisters dearly (and my eldest sister is 13 years older than I am) and we have a great time when we are together--but we have very few common interests, hobbies, etc...
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on January 15, 2014, 05:41:35 AM
The two clearly didn't meet after Olga and family moved to Canada, but that doesn't really prove anything (before air travel was common people who lived far apart were unlikely to meet). Did they meet at all in England or Denmark between their mother's death and 1939, or did their respective children visit the other, or their cousins? A couple of Xenia's boys settled in America - did they visit their aunt in Canada (New York and Toronto are not that far apart in North American terms!)

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 15, 2014, 08:44:22 AM
According to my research Olga did feel close to Ksenia at all. Ksenia was pretty and glamorous while Olga was homely with a retiring nature. In her biography by Ian Vorres, she did not much mention her sister with affection than she did with her brothers (reading between the lines). That relationship was further strained when Olga married morganetically. Ksenia & their mother both made Olga felt she had married below her position. Finally, the matter of the division of their mother's jewels, Olga felt Ksenia got more and she less.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: edubs31 on January 15, 2014, 11:01:50 AM
The two clearly didn't meet after Olga and family moved to Canada, but that doesn't really prove anything (before air travel was common people who lived far apart were unlikely to meet). Did they meet at all in England or Denmark between their mother's death and 1939, or did their respective children visit the other, or their cousins? A couple of Xenia's boys settled in America - did they visit their aunt in Canada (New York and Toronto are not that far apart in North American terms!)

Ann

No you're right it doesn't prove anything per se. But air travel could certainly have been an option later in their lives. Passenger jets became common and much safer by the late-1930s. Of course if neither woman was comfortable flying it would understandably have been more difficult to see one another with an ocean between them taking rail travel out of consideration.

Sometimes people use excuses like the fear of travel or advanced age to justify not being able to see one another. Sandro passing away in the early-30s, and leaving Xenia a widow, might ordinary have encouraged her to want to travel some if it meant connecting with relatives. Speaking from experience my aunt and mother have never been closer than they've been since my uncle passed away fifteen years ago. But I realize people are different case by case.

Quote
According to my research Olga did feel close to Ksenia at all. Ksenia was pretty and glamorous while Olga was homely with a retiring nature. In her biography by Ian Vorres, she did not much mention her sister with affection than she did with her brothers (reading between the lines). That relationship was further strained when Olga married morganetically. Ksenia & their mother both made Olga felt she had married below her position. Finally, the matter of the division of their mother's jewels, Olga felt Ksenia got more and she less.

I'm not nearly so researched in this area but I too have always gotten the sense that they were distant from one another...emotionally as well as geographically during exile. The question then is whether it had to do with issues of respect or simply, as has been mentioned on here, a case of two women not having much in common with one another. The age difference means their childhood experiences were certainly different. It's almost hard to imagine though either woman wanting to be left alone, especially after their mother and (in Xenia's case) Sandro died given the traumatic experiences their family had gone through.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: grandduchessella on January 15, 2014, 11:08:13 AM
There was a photo of them in Denmark wearing black--I presume this was for the Dowager Empress. As to any further meetings in Denmark post-1928, I don't know.

Did their respective children see each other or have much of a relationship? That could provide some insight.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on January 15, 2014, 11:54:22 AM
'Passenger jets became common and much safer by the late-1930s.'

Not quite! Passenger JETS only became available in the 1950s, though passenger flying within Europe became fairly common for the well-off in the 1930s.

It would have been perfectly possible for Olga and Xenia to go between Britain and Denmark by train and ferry - not that lengthy a journey.

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: edubs31 on January 15, 2014, 12:14:07 PM
Quote
'Passenger jets became common and much safer by the late-1930s.'

Not quite! Passenger JETS only became available in the 1950s, though passenger flying within Europe became fairly common for the well-off in the 1930s.

Fair enough. And what about the DC-3? Didn't that come into use in the late-1930s? Surely by the 40s and 50s there had to be acceptable flight options for the Grand Duchess's unless of course they were terrified of flying.

Quote
It would have been perfectly possible for Olga and Xenia to go between Britain and Denmark by train and ferry - not that lengthy a journey.

Indeed. And a boat ride across the Atlantic would have been an option as well. Certainly the sisters were familiar with ship travel being the daughters of the Tsar of the Russia. Hard to think of sea sickness as being an excuse for keeping them apart.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 15, 2014, 12:42:29 PM
I think they were too different to be close and the Olga's tomboy personality did not jelled with Ksenia who had experienced disappointment in her marriage. Olga adored her brothers and spent time with Nicky's children, but not with Ksenia's boys. As their geographical location became more pronounced in their later years, so was their affection. Another example is Thyra, who was much younger than Dagmar & Alexandra, but she was still kind and thoughtful to her sister's children (Olga recorded her Aunt in her articles) and visited Dagmar in Denmark after the death of her husband. No such affection found between Olga & Ksenia.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Arkhimago on January 15, 2014, 01:27:23 PM
Edubs is dead on.
Unlike her younger sister, who was thrilled even into her latest years to be raced down the QEW in Ian Vorres ragtop roadster at high speeds (with both coiffure and pearls askew!), GD Xenia, although not terrified by it, did not at all enjoy travelling by boat or air. And aside from naturally being a homebody, her less than robust health in her later years did somewhat inhibit this.
She was however one of the stronger proponents in attempting to convince Olga Alexandrovna to relocate to the UK following her husbands passing.

And to address Ann's query, As that Toronto to Chicago, and the latter to NYC are quite close, the cousins did and still do see each other, both while on business and for family events. A few even attended the same summer camps in northern Ontario together and the return trip from this peregrination usually culminated in a picnic or barbecue. It is no different than it would be for any other extended family.
Oddly enough nowadays it is more likely they encounter one another in Moscow or St. Petersburg in the course of various endeavours.

                              - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I was excited to read Eric Lowes most recent missive!

And to quote Eric's declaration reposted here verbatim:  "According to my research Olga did feel close to Ksenia"

Congratulations Eric for finally doing some first-rate due diligence in your fact finding! You are completely correct in this.

 (Although admittedly, I AM somewhat baffled as to why you would firstly quite accurately state what you had discovered, and then go into great detail trying to disprove your own research??? ;-) It is really an interesting approach for you to take!
I cannot ascertain if you are in fact dastardly clever or are but muddying your waters to give the mere illusion of depth?

 You surely seem to have fascinating and arcane insight into the mindsets and metered degrees of filial affection of personae grand et al.

I must look back in this forum to discover if you have weighed in on the whole Anastasia issue as I am certain it would be a scintillating discourse.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on January 15, 2014, 02:07:22 PM
Arkhimago

Thank you for answering my question.

We should also bear in mind that neither Olga nor Xenia had much money. Xenia was accommodated by her British relations and periodically baled out by them. So not much in the way of resources for travelling.

Just to put in the perspective of a 'normal' family, my great-grandfather emigrated to Nothern Ontario in 1903 (reportedly to get away from his creditors!), accompanied by his second wife and two of his three children. My grandfather, who had earlier been packed off to sea, joined them for a time before heading off to British Columbia by himself. He came back here to join up in 1914, but everyone else stayed in Canada. His sister and her family visited their various relations in Britain in 1927, and one made another visit when stationed here during the war. Otherwise, one of my uncles met that side of the family a couple of times when his work took him to Canada, and III met the last survivor of my mother's first cousins when I was in Canada in 1993. This cousin did, however, keep up a Christmas correspondence with my mother, and presumably with my grandmother before she died. Over Christmas a cousin on the other side of the family was telling me that her brother had recently visited Canada and stayed with some relations whose parents had emigrated in the 1920s, and who had never been over here.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: edubs31 on January 15, 2014, 02:25:31 PM
Quote
Edubs is dead on.
Unlike her younger sister, who was thrilled even into her latest years to be raced down the QEW in Ian Vorres ragtop roadster at high speeds (with both coiffure and pearls askew!), GD Xenia, although not terrified by it, did not at all enjoy travelling by boat or air. And aside from naturally being a homebody, her less than robust health in her later years did somewhat inhibit this. She was however one of the stronger proponents in attempting to convince Olga Alexandrovna to relocate to the UK following her husbands passing.

Well this is conversation changing information. Spasibo Arkhimago! Let me borrow Ann's comment above and use it to pose another question then...

Quote
We should also bear in mind that neither Olga nor Xenia had much money. Xenia was accommodated by her British relations and periodically bailed out by them. So not much in the way of resources for travelling.

How about resources enough to fly her sister over to spend a little time with dear old Xenia? Surely a plane ticket or two couldn't have broken the bank, yes? Sounds more Olga might have been the one refusing such a request, but she certainly had her reasons. I'm not even sure it's fair to speculate on this as we're doing here. Olga Alexandrovna's personality is fairly unimpeachable in my opinion.

Quote
Just to put in the perspective of a 'normal' family, my great-grandfather emigrated to Nothern Ontario in 1903 (reportedly to get away from his creditors!), accompanied by his second wife and two of his three children. My grandfather, who had earlier been packed off to sea, joined them for a time before heading off to British Columbia by himself. He came back here to join up in 1914, but everyone else stayed in Canada. His sister and her family visited their various relations in Britain in 1927, and one made another visit when stationed here during the war. Otherwise, one of my uncles met that side of the family a couple of times when his work took him to Canada, and III met the last survivor of my mother's first cousins when I was in Canada in 1993. This cousin did, however, keep up a Christmas correspondence with my mother, and presumably with my grandmother before she died. Over Christmas a cousin on the other side of the family was telling me that her brother had recently visited Canada and stayed with some relations whose parents had emigrated in the 1920s, and who had never been over here.

Good perspective there Ann. What some people can convey about themselves in letters or over the phone often times cannot be replicated in person. With this in mind perhaps Olga and Xenia were quite close, but realized it wasn't physical closeness that mattered. Not at their advanced age at least.

Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Vecchiolarry on January 15, 2014, 06:08:06 PM
Hi,

My perspective on all this is:

1) Xenia was more a 'Grand Duchess' and Olga was happier as 'Mrs. Kuliakovsky'....
2) Xenia was her mother's daughter and Olga was her fathers....
3) Olga preferred to be in Denmark & then Canada (somewhat replicating Russia);  whereas Xenia enjoyed the royal life & relatives in Britain.

I would like to know if Xenia and Olga attended George VI's coronation?
And, did Xenia attend Elizabeth II's coronation?

Larry
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Arkhimago on January 15, 2014, 06:17:38 PM
Eric further scribed:
 "I think they were too different to be close and the Olga's tomboy personality did not jelled with Ksenia who had experienced disappointment in her marriage."

Eric:
I believe that I may have prematurely praised your research skills.
Appended next is an excerpt from Grand Duchess Xenia Alexandrovna's Wikipedia entry:

  " Xenia and her siblings were raised mostly there with simplicity.As a child, Xenia was a tomboy and was very shy.
Xenia, like her brothers, received her education from private tutors. A special emphasis was laid on the study of foreign languages.Apart from her native Russian, Xenia studied English, French and German. Xenia learnt cookery, joinery and making puppets and their clothes for their theatre. She also enjoyed riding and fishing in the nearby river on the Gatchina estate, drawing, gymnastics, dancing and playing the piano."


Conversely, there is no such commensurate description of Grand Duchess Olga in her respective Wikipedia entry?
And even if there was a dis-interest in frippery and affairs of the court on her part, this hardly implies an automatic default to"tomboy"?

Further to your observation, (and even if it WAS accurate!)  I do not get how a "tomboyish nature" in ones youth, has any correlation at all, to an "experienced disappointment in her marriage"? How do you segue to that conclusion??
 Has your un-impeachable research perhaps uncovered if Grand Duchess Olga had herself "experienced disappointment in HER marriage"?? ;-I

And: "Finally, the matter of the division of their mother's jewels, Olga felt Ksenia got more and she less."

Despite all of the scribblings on this theme over the years, this is not factually at all correct.
It was Grand Duchess Olga's off-spring who felt this disenfranchisement and pursued it's veracity on their own accord after her passing.
HIH, at that time, did not take any great issue with it and was content to get the bulk of Hvidore and its contents instead.
And as that "bulk", unlike the jewels, has remained in the family, its true provenance and value is ever increasing.
Hence she did not get such a bad deal after all as it turns out. Conversely, in net value, and due to the times, as well as her own naivete &
sundry other reasons, GD Xenia did not fare  nearly as well in the disposition of the jewellery which she did receive.
In the vernacular of today some might infer she "got hosed".
Again that's a matter of opinion which lengthy tomes have already dissected in tedious detail.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Arkhimago on January 15, 2014, 07:32:31 PM
Edubs wrote:

"How about resources enough to fly her sister over to spend a little time with dear old Xenia? Surely a plane ticket or two couldn't have broken the bank, yes? Sounds more Olga might have been the one refusing such a request, but she certainly had her reasons. I'm not even sure it's fair to speculate on this as we're doing here. Olga Alexandrovna's personality is fairly unimpeachable in my opinion."

Edubs:

There would be no need for a ticket since there were private aircraft available to her both in Canada, and by non-Britannic cousins overseas.

Quite simply, as much as she herself would happily hop on an aeroplane, she would never go anywhere without her husband, and his physical condition in his later years made him a virtual invalid.  After his passing, she herself was not well enough to attempt such a long journey.

And that Edubs, was quite honestly, a completely fair and tangible query to pose, and as you see, has an equally real answer.

Conversely, personal degrees of endearment and the posthumous metrics thereof of is no more fair to speculate upon than it is germane nor relevant, and verges upon offensive whether applied to one of noble birth or otherwise.
Some posters appear to be completely oblivious of this line of decorum and when called to task upon their meretricious musings choose to ignore it and instead sally forth with even more странные мысли.

Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: grandduchessella on January 15, 2014, 08:09:08 PM
A very interesting discussion to be sure. Please just remember that while gentle ribbing  is fine  (and pretty common in a congenial group such as ours)let's not veer into personal slights, however. And that somethings may come across differently online than perhaps intentioned. Thanks. :)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 15, 2014, 08:10:08 PM
I did read that Olga called Ksenia "monster" behind her back. It is also true that their affection never rose to the level of her mother Dagmar and her sisters (Alexandra & Thyra).  Ksenia maybe a tomboy in the schoolroom, but she blossomed into a beauty, unlike Olga who was "the ugly duckling". Ksenia was swept off her feet by Sandro while Olga had to escape through Peter of Oldenburg (her mother had long wanted her to be her "Toria" or "Benjamin" and was surprised by her announcement, contrary to reports of her arranging the match). There is much to seperate the sisters in looks and temperament. The fact that Olga was devoted to her nieces by her brother than Ksenia's children spoke volumes again. It was very different too as the Dowager Empress declared her favorite granddaughter was Irina, Ksenia's only daughter...
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on January 15, 2014, 08:52:02 PM
Olga Alexandrovna's personality is fairly unimpeachable in my opinion.


Mine also.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Arkhimago on January 15, 2014, 09:13:59 PM
Eric недавно разболтал:

                     "It is also true that their affection never rose to the level of her mother Dagmar and her sisters "

Wow Eric! I am duly impressed!
The only possible way you could possess such intimate knowledge is to have personally known either the grand duchesses or their mother?
Perhaps you actually ARE a genuine великий князь?  (Apparently there are sundry ones about the forum?)

That would explain the rather appalling spelling & pronoun usage in your fascinating declarations?
 And I DO know that you are doubtlessly more accustomed to have your private secretary take dictation for you.
But if he scribed this for you, then really must teach him about that... Spell-Czech thing-a-ma-bob??
(I believe that it does English as well?) Not sure. Have never used it myself.
Tell him that as a matter of character, it follows that when one cannot be bothered to check those things, that it thusly calls into question the veracity of any other item that they purport to be fact, and thusly casts aspersions on ones "noblesse" (or apparent lack thereof) as a whole!

This heinous faux-pas may be grounds for said mendicants immediate dismissal!! And if you DO chose that route of action, then DO replace him with a Swiss one this time! Not only are they punctual, but they are quite handy at pressing your dress shirts should your valet be indisposed.
Surely their are Gilliard descendants about whom would fit the bill and who would also easily acclimatize to your glamorous peripatetic peregrinations of palace hopping to visit your regal kin for a spot of intimate tete a tete!      

And should the culprit who wrote this piece under your princely moniker , not be a native speaker of the Queens English, I do NOT apologize.
Neither am I.
 
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: grandduchessella on January 15, 2014, 11:23:57 PM
Please see previous posting.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Svetabel on January 16, 2014, 05:05:38 AM

I would like to know if Xenia and Olga attended George VI's coronation?
And, did Xenia attend Elizabeth II's coronation?

Larry

Olga didn't attend the coronation in 1937 year,  Xenia was there though not inside the Westminster Abbey but only in the Buckingam Palace (with her son Vasiliy and his wife Natalia) at the reception just after the coronation.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Vecchiolarry on January 16, 2014, 09:04:26 AM
Hi Svetabel,

Thank you for your reply - good information!

Cheers,
Larry
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: grandduchessella on January 16, 2014, 02:37:12 PM
Xenia also attended George V's Jubilee and was on the balcony for that appearance and some others.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 16, 2014, 11:37:01 PM
It would be much easier for Xenia to attend King George V's Jubilee since she was living in England at the time. Olga was a bit far in Denmark or Canada.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on January 17, 2014, 11:01:47 AM
Olga and her family moved to Canada in 1948. At the time of the Jubilee, she would have been in Denmark. I wonder, was she invited?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Svetabel on January 17, 2014, 12:46:21 PM
Olga and her family moved to Canada in 1948. At the time of the Jubilee, she would have been in Denmark. I wonder, was she invited?

Yes, she was in Denmark then, and actually she rarely left the country as the travelling was quite expensive for her. From time to time she visited Berlin, in the beginning of 1930s she travelled to Slovakia with her husband and sons (Kulikovskiy needed a rest after a serious surgery).
 As for the 1935 Jubilee I didn't find any mention  of her inviting , but Xenia of course was invited and even lived for 2 days in Buckingham Palace.

If speaking about 2 sisters meetings through years...the meetings were very rare. Xenia was often ill, and had no chance to leave England due to her finances - but in 1936 she spent 2 months with Olga and her family in Ballerup, Olga's "estate" in Denmark. The rest time sisters changed letters and were aware of each others's matters.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: grandduchessella on January 17, 2014, 04:56:39 PM
It would be much easier for Xenia to attend King George V's Jubilee since she was living in England at the time. Olga was a bit far in Denmark or Canada.

Yes, Obviously--it was a response to a previous question. Olga, however, didn't participate in Christian X's Jubilee in 1937 and distance wasn't a question there. She did attend other royal events like family weddings though that took place in Denmark up until the time she left the country for Canada.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on January 17, 2014, 08:47:26 PM
I'd like to gather more reading material about Grand Duchess Olga. I have 25 Chapters of my Life and The Last Grand Duchess, but I am seeing tidbits of information that weren't in either of those sources (such as what Svetabel mentioned about the family traveling to Slovakia so Col Kulikovsky could recover from surgery). Can anyone help me compile my list? Thanks!
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Arkhimago on January 18, 2014, 12:40:55 AM
History Fan wrote:
"I'd like to gather more reading material about Grand Duchess Olga. I have 25 Chapters of my Life and The Last Grand Duchess, but I am seeing tidbits of information that weren't in either of those sources"

You already own the only two definitive works on Olga Alexandrovna.
Although some readers did not care for 25 Chapters, I found it to be a really fascinating companion book to the Last Grand Duchess. As the latter piece was a biography of HIH's recollections of her life reviewed and recalled by her in retrospect at the end of her life, 25 Chapters is a very different posthumous compendium of many of those same events, but based upon the letters describing them, as well as her actual feelings and experience of them, in real time AT the time that they occurred.

A complaint seen often in reviews of such books, is in regard to the information that has been omitted about events or personalities. In both of these works this is with intent and not by accidental error. It is important to note that Ian Vorres came about this writing project quite by chance. Although his documentation and writing skills are impeccable, he was (and is ) essentially an art historian, and was neither a scholar of Russian political nor imperial history nor could he speak the language. Hence in his finished book, not only did he honour the wishes of his friend and subject in not delving into where or what she may not wish to recall or cover, he was not familiar enough himself with that history to know what issues or personae may have needed further review. Thusly it really is for the most part her tale, as she wanted it told, written as an autobiography through a ghost writer.

25 Chapters, although positioned as a memoir reconstructs her story upon an assortment of her correspondence collected from various sources, and compiled by her great grandson. Olga Alexandrovna was as discreet as she was private, hence any of those dealing with more sensitive themes or controversial characters were simply destroyed long ago if not immediately after reading (recall Empress Alexandra burning piles of correspondence at the Alexander Palace in those final days) by either the recipient or the sender, or just were ...not there, which then comes out as being a historical "no comment" as was and is her... imperial prerogative.

With that last caveat in mind, should you have one of the original publications of the Last Grand Duchess from the 1960s, you might want to also seek out a copy of the more recent re-release (which I covered in a posting on here a few years ago) This version has a substantial epilogue both touching upon some issues that came about as a result of the release of the original, and also covers items such as the imperial jewels saga that continued after the passing of HIH. Of real interest, and should you happen to have both copies side by side, is to compare the acknowledgements in both versions prefaces against each other. Perhaps you may read between the lines as to the reasons behind those variations.

I should add that the Patricia Phenix error laden tome about the Grand Duchess does not even merit mention here.
 Mr. Vorres summarized it precisely & succinctly in HIS review of it as: "Completely superfluous" ;-)

As for your reason in acquiring more reading material being to find any documentation of the "tidbits" you have been reading here, I can assure you that you will not find any. Since this is the first time many of them might appear in print, you may consider this forum an original source.

(I apologize in advance for my perhaps inaccurate usage above, of the terms Autobiography and Biography. I am neither a publisher nor author, hence I hope neither of the latter who might read, shall this upbraid me upon the finer points or specific definitions of said memoirs)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Svetabel on January 18, 2014, 07:37:43 AM



As for your reason in acquiring more reading material being to find any documentation of the "tidbits" you have been reading here, I can assure you that you will not find any. Since this is the first time many of them might appear in print, you may consider this forum an original source.



If we speak about the sources in English, well, documentation is poor I agree. But what about such sources as correspondence, in Russian? The source of my 'tidbits' on Olga and Xenia's life in 1919-1940 years are their letters to Princess Alexandra Obolenskaya (nee Countess Apraksina), long-time friend of Empress Maria Fedorovna and Xenia itself. There is a recent publication, in Russian, of this correspondence:

http://www.ozon.ru/context/detail/id/24737492/ (http://www.ozon.ru/context/detail/id/24737492/)

and a pdf version

http://www.ozon.ru/context/detail/id/24705089/ (http://www.ozon.ru/context/detail/id/24705089/)

the book is unigue, there are many letters of Xenia ( who was closer to Princess even more then the Empress and Olga) and not so much of Olga and MF.

Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 18, 2014, 11:52:12 AM
I wonder if the letters of Olga to her family & friends were saved and collected. They should gave a better picture than books about her.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Arkhimago on January 18, 2014, 12:45:07 PM
Svetabel wrote:

"If we speak about the sources in English, well, documentation is poor I agree. But what about such sources as correspondence, in Russian?"


Svetabel:

I was not inferring that the extant documentation is poor. Nor was I suggesting that my "tidbits" came from those or any other letters or journals.
Grand Duchess Olga wrote equally well in both English and Russian, often combining both along with an occasional French or German term when the topic merited. (Can YOU think of a single Russian or English word that can better express "schadenfreude" ?? ;-)

My point was merely that the assortment of written material utilized in 25 Chapters was neither by measure nor intent an archive, and even within that collection, there would of course be sequences where there just would be NO remaining documents, either by design, by intent, or from merely being lost through the last century. Secondly, it would not be possible for the writer to know, despite all good intent, where or with whom might reside any additional correspondence. Hence with that understanding they did a terrific job telling and illustrating her story from what they did have, and it should thusly not be regarded as a historic & concise review of her epoch, and therefore not be subject to critique as it's been for its omissions.

After all, it IS called "25 Chapters of my Life".
 And as HIH had, at the very least 65 chapters (with dozens of appendices), the title makes no claim of being either inclusive or encyclical.  :)

And thank you for that link to Princess Obolenskaya's letters (the archive of which I believe may reside in NYC?) I look forward to reading them.

Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Svetabel on January 18, 2014, 02:22:48 PM
Can YOU think of a single Russian or English word that can better express "schadenfreude" ?? ;-)




Zloradstvo? :)



And thank you for that link to Princess Obolenskaya's letters (the archive of which I believe may reside in NYC?) I look forward to reading them.



Yes, the originals are in the Columbia University, Bakhmeteff fund. About 400 letters.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 18, 2014, 02:44:07 PM
I wonder if there are any letters of Olga in Windsor ? I think she did wrote to Princess Marina, Duchess of Kent after she visited her in Canada.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: grandduchessella on January 18, 2014, 02:49:01 PM
There was a book on her son--that may have some information or point you in other directions as well.

http://www.amazon.com/Tihon-Tsars-Nephew-Hans-Neerbek/dp/919739789X/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1390078073&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=tihon+kulikovsky

Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Arkhimago on January 18, 2014, 02:56:00 PM
Can YOU think of a single Russian or English word that can better express "schadenfreude" ?? ;-)

Zloradstvo? Smiley


Hmm... I have always thought of злорадство as being a bit too blunt and loud as in pointedly & directly laughing openly at someone's misfortune?
(As are in fact many things Russian. lol)

Whereas schadenfreude has much more subtle and....subversive overtones, as in one should feel guilt in mere ponderance of it and do it quietly.
It also seems that this most teutonic construct appears to be more often employed in the past tense?
It is almost is as if one can see or experience Zloradstvo in real time.....however, when it is recounted and analyzed in retrospect later...it would often become:"Ya, Ya....das war....schaaa-denfreude! (but do not repeat it for people will think you are not a nice person for even thinking that!)"  ::)


Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Превед on January 18, 2014, 03:09:20 PM
Can YOU think of a single Russian or English word that can better express "schadenfreude" ?? ;-)

Zloradstvo? Smiley


Hmm... I have always thought of злорадство as being a bit too blunt and loud as in pointedly & directly laughing openly at someone's misfortune?
(As are in fact many things Russian. lol)

Whereas schadenfreude has much more subtle and....subversive overtones, as in one should feel guilt in mere ponderance of it and do it quietly.

I don't know if you speak German, but I assume you are referring to the word's emploi in English, where it probably has a more raffiné tone and meaning than in German, because it is only used by Anglophones of breeding and education, to whom the sentiments implied in the word are de mauvais ton. While in German there are popular proverbs about Schadenfreude.

D'ailleurs the word also exists as a calque from German in Olga Alexandrovna's mother's and own adopted language, Danish, as skadefryd. I wonder if she ever used the untranslatable Danish word hygge in communication with other descendants of Christian IX and Queen Louise. In their minds, the holidays at Fredensborg must have been the very essence of Danish hygge.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on January 18, 2014, 09:01:39 PM
There was a book on her son--that may have some information or point you in other directions as well.

http://www.amazon.com/Tihon-Tsars-Nephew-Hans-Neerbek/dp/919739789X/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1390078073&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=tihon+kulikovsky



Oh, right. I'd forgotten. Thank you.

I was afraid someone would say 25 Chapters and Last Grand Duchess were pretty much it for someone like me who does not read Russian! : P They're excellent books and I enjoy them both, but I was hoping there were more like them. Ah well.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: ashdean on January 21, 2014, 01:43:28 PM



As for your reason in acquiring more reading material being to find any documentation of the "tidbits" you have been reading here, I can assure you that you will not find any. Since this is the first time many of them might appear in print, you may consider this forum an original source.



If we speak about the sources in English, well, documentation is poor I agree. But what about such sources as correspondence, in Russian? The source of my 'tidbits' on Olga and Xenia's life in 1919-1940 years are their letters to Princess Alexandra Obolenskaya (nee Countess Apraksina), long-time friend of Empress Maria Fedorovna and Xenia itself. There is a recent publication, in Russian, of this correspondence:

http://www.ozon.ru/context/detail/id/24737492/ (http://www.ozon.ru/context/detail/id/24737492/)

and a pdf version

http://www.ozon.ru/context/detail/id/24705089/ (http://www.ozon.ru/context/detail/id/24705089/)

the book is unigue, there are many letters of Xenia ( who was closer to Princess even more then the Empress and Olga) and not so much of Olga and MF.


I know Princess Obolenskaya was a childless widow when she left Russia in the Dowager Empresses suite. Although this is not the subject of this thread...as I cannot read Russian...what became of her? Did she remain with the Dowager like Countess Mengden then go to Paris? I would be grateful for information..
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: grandduchessella on January 21, 2014, 03:41:48 PM
I only found bare bones:

Wladimir Pr Obolensky-Neledinsky-Meletzky (Moscow 31 Mar 1847-Yalta 7 Nov 1891); m.3 Feb 1880 Css Alexandra Alexandrovna Apraxine (St.Petersburg 23 Apr 1852-Paris 3 Jan 1943)

I didn't find any mention of her in the book Former People either. She *was* mentioned briefly in The Russian Court at Sea as she was picked up in the Crimea on the Marlborough and accompanied the Dowager Empress from there. (She was called Aprak by some.). After the Dowager Empress's death, it appears she ended up, like many a Russian exile, in Paris.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Svetabel on January 21, 2014, 11:36:03 PM



As for your reason in acquiring more reading material being to find any documentation of the "tidbits" you have been reading here, I can assure you that you will not find any. Since this is the first time many of them might appear in print, you may consider this forum an original source.



If we speak about the sources in English, well, documentation is poor I agree. But what about such sources as correspondence, in Russian? The source of my 'tidbits' on Olga and Xenia's life in 1919-1940 years are their letters to Princess Alexandra Obolenskaya (nee Countess Apraksina), long-time friend of Empress Maria Fedorovna and Xenia itself. There is a recent publication, in Russian, of this correspondence:

http://www.ozon.ru/context/detail/id/24737492/ (http://www.ozon.ru/context/detail/id/24737492/)

and a pdf version

http://www.ozon.ru/context/detail/id/24705089/ (http://www.ozon.ru/context/detail/id/24705089/)

the book is unigue, there are many letters of Xenia ( who was closer to Princess even more then the Empress and Olga) and not so much of Olga and MF.


I know Princess Obolenskaya was a childless widow when she left Russia in the Dowager Empresses suite. Although this is not the subject of this thread...as I cannot read Russian...what became of her? Did she remain with the Dowager like Countess Mengden then go to Paris? I would be grateful for information..

She settled in Paris and remained there till her death in 1940. She tried to earn living by needle work, embroidery and sewing as well as selling her objects de arts (to Queen Mary of England via GDss Xenia).
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on January 22, 2014, 03:32:55 AM
Does hygge convey something similar to gemutlich? Gemutlich is untranslatable but involves a state of unprelentious comfort, usually fairly small-scale.

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: ashdean on January 22, 2014, 05:59:04 AM
I only found bare bones:

Wladimir Pr Obolensky-Neledinsky-Meletzky (Moscow 31 Mar 1847-Yalta 7 Nov 1891); m.3 Feb 1880 Css Alexandra Alexandrovna Apraxine (St.Petersburg 23 Apr 1852-Paris 3 Jan 1943)

I didn't find any mention of her in the book Former People either. She *was* mentioned briefly in The Russian Court at Sea as she was picked up in the Crimea on the Marlborough and accompanied the Dowager Empress from there. (She was called Aprak by some.). After the Dowager Empress's death, it appears she ended up, like many a Russian exile, in Paris.
Thankyou...I had the same data myself.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: ashdean on January 22, 2014, 06:03:04 AM



As for your reason in acquiring more reading material being to find any documentation of the "tidbits" you have been reading here, I can assure you that you will not find any. Since this is the first time many of them might appear in print, you may consider this forum an original source.



If we speak about the sources in English, well, documentation is poor I agree. But what about such sources as correspondence, in Russian? The source of my 'tidbits' on Olga and Xenia's life in 1919-1940 years are their letters to Princess Alexandra Obolenskaya (nee Countess Apraksina), long-time friend of Empress Maria Fedorovna and Xenia itself. There is a recent publication, in Russian, of this correspondence:

http://www.ozon.ru/context/detail/id/24737492/ (http://www.ozon.ru/context/detail/id/24737492/)

and a pdf version

http://www.ozon.ru/context/detail/id/24705089/ (http://www.ozon.ru/context/detail/id/24705089/)

the book is unigue, there are many letters of Xenia ( who was closer to Princess even more then the Empress and Olga) and not so much of Olga and MF.


I know Princess Obolenskaya was a childless widow when she left Russia in the Dowager Empresses suite. Although this is not the subject of this thread...as I cannot read Russian...what became of her? Did she remain with the Dowager like Countess Mengden then go to Paris? I would be grateful for information..

She settled in Paris and remained there till her death in 1940. She tried to earn living by needle work, embroidery and sewing as well as selling her objects de arts (to Queen Mary of England via GDss Xenia).
Thankyou.
It would be fascinating to know what that collector extraordinaire Queen Mary bought from her...but thats not relevant on this thread..
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Превед on January 22, 2014, 10:28:00 AM
Does hygge convey something similar to gemutlich? Gemutlich is untranslatable but involves a state of unprelentious comfort, usually fairly small-scale.

Yes, Danish hygge equals German Gemütlichkeit, but of course there are nuances. Danish hygge is rather low-key, not necessarily boisterous and involves a certain comfort, snugness, cozyness, being at ease with oneself and others, informality and can, on animated and festive occassions, involve a bit of the spirit or good cheer which the Irish call craic. In short, the exact oppositie to royal protocol and exactly the Biedermeyer atmosphere in which the Glücksborgers were reared in the Gule Palæ. When Hans Christian Andersen came to tell them fairytales, that was real Danish hygge! (And Kierkegaard pacing up and down the streets outside, representing the darker side of the Danish national character!)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Svetabel on January 22, 2014, 11:00:29 AM
Please let's back to topic as we all are going to different directions from the main  course  : )
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Arkhimago on January 22, 2014, 11:51:49 AM

Kalafrana queried:

Does hygge convey something similar to gemutlich? Gemutlich is untranslatable but involves a state of unpretentious comfort, usually fairly small-scale.

 In the intended tone of the term, I had always thought "уютный" to be a terrific and really exact russian iteration of "gemutlich".
Some of my German and Belgian acquaintances employ the English word "ambiance" to describe this, but not insomuch as a descriptor for interior decoration, but more to convey the more intangible mood of a gathering or event, and often to express their own feelings.

It is interesting that Превед describes this construct as being inherent to the Biedermeier ethos. I had only previously seen Biedermeier furniture displayed out of context in museums as individual pieces. and although quite handsome, found to be quite cold and imposing, somewhat a stripped down Empire style, and almost a precursor to Danish modern. It was only after viewing complete Biedermeier period rooms in Europe with allthe original décor extant did I begin to understand the intended mood and style of this movement and to see just how gemutlich it truly was.

And just to humour the moderator, many have postulated how awful it must have been for Grand Duchess Olga to live in such reduced circumstances in her later years. This could not have been farther from the truth. Do recall her fond recollections of her childhood growing up in the vast Gatchina Palace, but not in the lofty main floor state rooms end echoing galleries. Instead, the family suites were situated in the cozy low ceilinged upper floor rooms crammed with furniture, icons and bric a brac, basically the very embodiment of уютнo and exactly how she described her Cooksville house, as well as the rooms in Toronto where she spent her final days. This was the environment she felt most comfortable, secure and relaxed within.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on January 22, 2014, 12:55:55 PM
My main recollection from the Voores book, and I read it as a teenager, was the walks in the park at Gatchina with her father and Mikhail, making camp fires and the like, all very unpretentious and 'ordinary', but quite obviously the sort of thing she liked best.

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on January 22, 2014, 01:54:03 PM
For her, it seems, the space she was in didn't matter nearly as much as the people she shared it with.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 23, 2014, 10:34:51 AM
I guess the story that got lost is that Olga grew up alone. Her parents and older siblings did not have much time for her when she was young.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on January 23, 2014, 02:22:20 PM
Actually no. She was close to her father and to Mikhail, though she does seem to have been left on the margins after her father's death.

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: edubs31 on January 23, 2014, 03:40:25 PM
Actually no. She was close to her father and to Mikhail, though she does seem to have been left on the margins after her father's death.

Ann

Yes. I too have read that she had a very loving and special relationship with her father the Tsar.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 24, 2014, 01:12:35 PM
Yes. But The Tsar was very busy and did not have much time for her, even though the time they spent together were "quality time". The bond with "Darling Floppy" (Michael) was equally fragile. In the Crawford book, Olga abandoned her brother and his mistress when she denied knowledge of the romance even though the photo simply showed that they actually double dated and spend some time together (both couples).
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on January 24, 2014, 05:49:25 PM
I'm having deja vu. I'm sure the topic of Michael and Natalia, and Olga's actions regarding, has already been discussed. Who knows whether or not the relationship may have been repaired if the revolution hadn't intervened and Michael hadn't been murdered (on Olga's birthday!)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 24, 2014, 07:26:41 PM
Just saying that even Olga's relationship with her brother Michael was fragile. No wonder she sought comfort in solitude.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Arkhimago on January 25, 2014, 01:53:21 PM

Just saying that even Olga's relationship with her brother Michael was fragile. No wonder she sought comfort in solitude.

?? That statement does not even make any sense?? How do you possibly infer that, after stating others did not have time for her, and that she purportedly had these fragile relationships with her family......that she sought comfort... in being alone??

Wouldn't it be exactly the opposite?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on January 26, 2014, 03:38:57 AM
Eric

You need to bear in mind that fathers, then and now, are usually busy (mine was away a fair amount for work, and doing part-time courses as well). Olga may have seen more of her father than was usual then.

As to Mikhail, Olga was clearly fond of him, but shocked at his behaviour with his mistress.

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 26, 2014, 10:43:51 AM
Well Ann,

Olga herself was hardly a paragon of virtue with a husband and a lover on the side at the same time, she lacked the moral high ground of her mother (Dagmar) and sister-in-law (Alicky) to pass judgement on to Countess Brassov. It was the lack of loyalty that made the relationship fragile. Also Olga was a misfit that did not fit in with the girly-girly crowd of Missy & Ksenia, but surprisingly did not jell with another tomboy (Greek Minny) in the greater family. The true happiness she felt was when she was painting and dressed in her smock (painter's gown) as she admitted with Ian Vorres. Getting married and having children for her was the icing on the cake.

Eric
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on January 27, 2014, 05:33:27 AM
I am inclined to accept that Olga did not sleep with Colonel Kulikovsky until they were married. If that is the case, there is no hypocrisy about her disapproval of Mikhail's mistress.

Naturally, it is impossible to know for certain, but the evidence for me is that they married on 16 November 1916, and Tikhon was born on 12 August 1917. On this basis we have a highly fertile couple in the days before contraception was all that reliable, so if they had been sleeping together before that then pregnancy was highly likely.

In any case, from the time the two met, Olga tried to persuade her brother and Peter of Oldenburg to allow her a divorce so that she and Colonel Kulikovsky could marry. Further, he was an eminently respectable single man, whereas Natalie Wulfert had a distinct past.

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 27, 2014, 08:51:59 AM
Whether or not Olga slept with Kulikovsky is not a big issue (And unfortunately you cannot know for sure). The big issue is that Olga was a married woman and having that kind of a situation is far from moral. People live in glass houses do not throw stones. There is already the example of the Ducky/Kyril situation. So I don't think Olga should be shocked. The fact that she knew of the situation (the photo said it all) and her later attempt to avoid all responsibility of the situation was not one of the best moments of Olga's life. I agree with the Crawfords in their assessment. The major sin in both cases was that both Kulilovsky and Countess Brassov were commoners. In fact The Dowager Empress and Grand Duchess Ksenia never let Olga forget about it.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: CountessKate on January 27, 2014, 09:23:27 AM
I can't see the evidence that Olga's disapproval of Natalia Brasova was based entirely on her being Michael's mistress.  It looks more like the sort of disapproval the Windsors had for Mrs Simpson - one could see it from Olga's perspective that Natalia was a divorced woman, and therefore an inappropriate person for Michael to be associated with in such a public fashion, who caused him to deceive his emperor and furthermore to deprive his emperor of his support when this was most needed.  And with Mrs Simpson, most of the discredit for Michael's actions fell on the woman.  This may not be the sort of feeling which resonates to a modern audience, but it was very common right up to WWII as Edward VIII's situation shows.  It doesn't mean that Olga was a hypocrite, just that she was a woman of her time, who felt her brother had let down his empire and his family for a woman with a dubious past whom she believed had married him for his position. 
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 27, 2014, 10:02:35 AM
The sad thing is that both situations is pretty much the same. Olga was a married woman with a lover on the side. How could she accused Countess Brossova of immorality when she is doing the same ? I don't think she condone it but nor did she spoken against it. The photo said it all (they were double dating together). There is no way she could get out of that situation without lying. In using the situation with Mrs. Simpson. There is no disapproval against Wallis before Edward VIII drop the bombshell he wanted to marry her. Wallis was only a line of wedded ladies that the former POW engage as a mistress from Freda Dudley-Ward (as seen in Downton Abbey) to Thelma Furness. Olga seem to be okay with Micheal's mistress until he stressed he wanted to marry the woman  (do remember that unlike Wallis She was pregnant). While Olga herself also wanted to marry the handsome Kulikovsky, she tried to shield herself personallly of the responsibility and that is self preservation. Where is the brother sister love bond ? Which is why I found there is much more love, acceptance with the Edinburgh family (both Missy & Ducky got into scrapes) , but Marie Coburg never closed her door on her daughters and did damage control for them (as seen in "Dear Missy").
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on January 27, 2014, 10:20:50 AM
I'm not sure that in the case of either the Duke of Windsor and Mrs Simpson or Mikhail and Natalie Wulfert most of the family disapproval (as opposed to the public disapproval) fell on the woman. There was plenty of family disapproval of the men's behaviour, plus exasperation that they had each allowed themselves to be ensnared by an adventuress (to use that splendidly old-fashioned term!). I think there is a difference between a single person without a past and someone on their second divorce. Moreover, Mikhail was Wulfert's Commanding Officer, and therefore abusing his authority.

It is a bit sweeping to suggest that because Olga was conducting a romance with Kulikovsky she should have created a united front with Natalie Wulfert. Olga's romance had no bearing on the succession, and, whether she slept with Kulikovsky before marriage or not, she took care not to get pregnant.

And Eric, we know well that you can never entertain the slightest criticism of Marie of Rumania and Victoria Melita!

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 27, 2014, 04:03:07 PM
I think Olga should be more tolerant of the situation (blood is thicker than water) and not jump into the band wagon where her brother was concerned. It was the only black spot in her relationship with a close family member was concerned. Maybe she was afraid that her association with Michael and his mistress would jeopardize her own chances of a marriage with Kulikosky if she was seen to be an tacit approval on the situation. That is the only reason I can think for Olga to abandon her own brother in his hour of need. It was the same kind of conflict she had with Anna Anderson, she was not too sure if it really wasn't her. I think that aspect of the "conflicted Olga" was never fully explored in any of her bios.

Well I think while the men misbehaved, it was the women who gets the punishment. It was Ernie who has boyfriends, but it was Ducky who gets the blame when she decided she could not live with a man who did not sexually desire her. 

No. I am all for family togetherness not divisions.

 
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on January 27, 2014, 04:20:55 PM
Or could it be that Olga thought there was a distinct difference between her position and her brother's. she was desperate to marry the love of her life (after all, they met in 1903 and their relationship endured until Colonel Kulikovsky died in 1958), while Mikhail was making a fool of himself and damaging the monarchy over another of his passing fancies?  On the basis of his track record, there was nothing unreasonable in seeing Natalie as a passing fancy.

But once more we are not going to agree. I like Olga, and it's pretty obvious that you don't. Not beautiful.

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 27, 2014, 05:48:13 PM
I like Olga too, but I have to say that she was being selfish in this particular case. Liking someone does not blind one to their faults. One author puts it as the plain Jane of the family, she was eager not to risk her future happiness in favor of solidarity with her brother. That relationship never really recovered.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on January 28, 2014, 03:25:33 AM
I am not blind to Olga's faults either, but her situation was distinctly different from Mikhail's.

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 28, 2014, 09:37:24 AM
But she wasn't very sympathetic to her brother, she could disprove of his actions without washing her hands on him which she did. The lord said once judge and you will be judged. Olga was of course later judged by her misalliance (breaking the rule of marrying a commoner being the daughter of a Tsar). In this the Vladimir line was very careful not to break (both daughters of Ducky entered into "equal marriages" and so was Marie Vladimirorna). VMH also said there are rules that royals cannot break. In that case both Olga & Misha were guilty of that.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on January 28, 2014, 10:14:05 AM
Whether the Vladimir line's marriages were actually all equal is going to be debated ad infinitum.

But going back to Olga, when Mikhail was required to leave the country, what could she be expected to do? Follow him? In any case, her situation WAS different. Her romance did no more than cause wagging tongues in St Petersburg society, and had no effect on the succession. She was prepared to wait - and did wait - to marry Colonel Kulikovsky until Nicholas permitted it. Contrast Mikhail, who flagrantly defied their brother in order to marry his mistress, and at a time when Alexei was expected to die, meaning that Mikhail would become the immediate heir. Much more damaging to the monarchy.

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: mcdnab on February 12, 2014, 01:25:20 AM
My own view on this is that at the time of Michael's marriage she might well have thought his behaviour and his timing was inappropriate. My own view is that when commenting in the 1950s when it was more than apparent the relationship had lasted until the revolution and Michael's death whilst retaining her disapproval was acceptable to try and give the impression as she did that she had never even met Michael's wife was a downright lie given there is plenty of photographic evidence that she did and freqeuntly before the marriage.
Xenia seemed more forgiving and perhaps more understanding.

Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 13, 2014, 11:02:54 AM
I agree that in this case Ksenia seemed to be a better sister to Misha than Olga.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Arkhimago on February 13, 2014, 06:20:16 PM
Eric wrote: "Olga was of course later judged by her misalliance "
 As you are such a stickler for historic accuracy and precedent, might you kindly indicate where you have located any record of GD Olga being "judged" by anyone of her milieu, as well as the dates this was recorded? I am curious to know these "adjudicators" you have uncovered?

...then Mr. Lowe quoted the scriptures:  "The lord said once judge and you will be judged"  So...does this maxim apply to yourself also Eric? ;-)

 You could make the effort to respect both the source (which you listed as "the Lord") as well as readers here to, at the very least, quote the Bible correctly!  The specific verse you macerated above, taken verbatim from Luke 6:37 of my King James version reads:

"Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven"

(If perchance you were quoting from a speech by ex-US president George Bush, and using his version of that quotation, then do forgive my critique as well as my completely missing your subtle use of both whimsy and ironic intent!)

However if the preceding was not the case, then considering you were educated in both the USA, as well as a British crown colony, I would certainly expect your writing skills as well as your fact checking would be of a much higher calibre in that misquoting such a source does impugn your veracity.

What I really find offensive in your meanderings here is that your habitual errors are not at all out of ignorance as that I certainly do not at all believe you are not intelligent, but from a complete indifference ...to even bother to make the small effort required to google this minutiae! Further to this, you just do NOT seem to realize that, by academic definition, if you do not assert a fact correctly and accurately then it is NOT a fact!

This being said, I do look forward to your reading your creative response to my initial query on the sources of judgement.

And to the Forum Administrator about to delete this, my admittedly verbose, narrative, I have noted that when a topic on here spawns a secondary one, you often open a new category? As that I have discovered at least a dozen respondent rants such as mine, may I most respectfully suggest a new Discussion board titled "Rebuttals to postings by Eric Lowe"? They go back at least six years, and are very well written by a wide selection of learned Forum Members from across the globe as well as this pantheon...  

*****Edited to remove very personal attacks against a fellow member. I very, very rarely edit a post but feel it was more appropriate to do so here than simply remove it--as was almost being taunted to do. The Forum Administrator is VERY clear on posting attacks on fellow members. They will not be tolerated. Obviously, he, I and the fellow members who voluntarily take the time and effort to moderate the Forum can not be every place at all times. I know I work full time and raise children so this comes at least third on my list of responsibilities and that is not unique amongst the moderators. I don't think we deserve the snark either that was aimed in the edited post. If we cannot respond to every single post in every single thread in every single subforum, our apologies if something has slipped by. There are, however, reporting buttons that alert us to posts that members think we should attend to. I am also confused as to the 'opening new categories'  comment. I really don't know what that is referring to. But NO personal attacks will be allowed on the Forum PERIOD. We have lost too many members to those over the past few years. It is one thing to criticize a work or post of a fellow members and spirited (even very spirited) debate is welcome and encouraged but not to call them names, impugn their character or intelligence or mock them. Yes, it may be written very cleverly (and I have no doubt that other posts are cheering it on) but it doesn't make it less nasty or inappropriate and whether a member thinks we are being the thought police or not, it is our job to remove or edit those posts. *****
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 15, 2014, 11:05:46 AM
Grand Duchess Olga knew what she was doing wasn't expected of her as the member of the reigning Romanov dynasty. Marrying someone below one's station was not tolerated. The case on Miche-Miche & Countess Torby does not need to be explained here again. I do not think it is right or wrong but that was such a norm at the time. Both Misha & Olga broke the law in that situation, Olga chose to lay low and eventually got her wish while Misha was banished (just like his Uncle Paul & cousin Kyril). The difference with Kyril was that Ducky was royal, so she was accepted and became a Grand Duchess, Paul & Misha's morganetic spouses do not. I like Olga generally, but found her failure to support her brother Misha disappointing. 
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: KarinK on March 12, 2014, 02:53:10 PM
Romanov Russia Today (http://romanovrussiatoday.tumblr.com/post/79107884911/there-was-always-much-hilarity-when-we-returned) posted a quote from Olga about teatime with her nieces:

Quote
“There was always much hilarity when we returned home and had to change our boots and clothes before tea. It was almost a tradition that I had to be knocked off my feet when I stood on one leg…and my nieces would roar with laughter when I fell onto the floor. The worst came when we descended the narrow staircase…As soon as I started to walk down, someone would always put out the light so that it was impossible to see a thing in front of you. In the meantime, someone else would lie down on one of the steps and when I trod on her she would grab me by the ankle and tickle me or think of other tricks. There was much laughter and screaming as we all rolled down to the bottom of the stairs in a heap - knocking our heads against the banister on the way. As you fall lightly when you are young we always reached the bottom safely, or more or less without a scratch. This was how we appeared at the tea table every Saturday afternoon, happy, laughing and squabbling about all the dreadful things ‘the others’ had thought of. We had hearty appetites for the bread, butter, honey and milk which awaited us. It is true that it was called ‘afternoon tea’ but we all disliked tea.”
— 
Olga Alexandrovna remembering OTMA

I guess they were too busy having fun to take photos of these games! Or maybe something will turn up in an archive one day that shows a heap of smiling grand duchesses.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 12, 2014, 10:05:29 PM
Olga wasn't close to her other niece, Princess Irina Alexandrovna, Princess Yussopov.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Arkhimago on March 13, 2014, 02:43:53 AM
Eric Lowe wrote:

"Olga wasn't close to her other niece, Princess Irina Alexandrovna, Princess Yussopov. "

So what?
Is there some arcane court circular governing the fundamental precepts of avuncular affection, whose tenets have been abrogated?
Where is the reference to back up your declaration Eric? Or is it yet another unfounded conjecture by you, in the absence of anything contrary?

And if this postulation actually  is correct ,then what is your point in making it?
No doubt this is a preamble to another of your pronouncements of HIH's errant character flaws which you appear to be so fond of espousing.
And again, what is your purpose in doing this so repetitively and with such intent alacrity?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 15, 2014, 11:44:27 PM
Just making a point and not a flaw. MF openly declared Irina her favorite granddaughter despite have 4 (OTMA) from her eldest son Nicky. It maybe she did not have easy excess to them as she did with Irina. Olga on the other hand indicated her closeness with Nicky's girls, but did not mention much about Irina, her other niece even though she spent much time in the Crimea with her and her husband Felix Yussopv before being picked up by the cruiser Marlborough. It is sometimes easy to what is not spoken and not what did transpire.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on March 16, 2014, 06:04:51 AM
So if all this matters at all, then things balanced out. Olga A was closer to Nicholas's daughters, while Marie F preferred Irina. Xenia  didn't get on terribly well with Alexandra, and probably had her hands full anyway with seven children.

Family members vary in their degree of closeness to one another, partly through circumstances, partly though differences of temperament. This is normality, and you can hardly expect royalty to be an exception.

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 16, 2014, 09:45:19 PM
Agreed. It maybe that Olga & Xenia didn't get along.

Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Ally Kumari on March 17, 2014, 03:07:32 AM
I have never read about that. They were not super-close (like OTMA for example, which is understandable given age difference) but I have never heard about them not getting along. What is your source, if any?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on March 17, 2014, 04:22:33 AM
Olga certainly seems to have been closer to her brothers than to her sister, but I know of nothing to suggest that they didn't get on.

In relation to Olga's relations with Irina, it may simply be that Olga appreciated that Nicholas's daughters, given their mother's desire to isolate them, needed her more.

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 18, 2014, 01:08:16 AM
Yes. I think Irina was closer in mentality with her mother and grandmother. Although I think Olga Nicholievna was close to Irina due to the closeness of their ages.

Indeed. It was Alicky's idea to isolate the girls and prevented them from an early marriage. Olga Alexandrovna was one of those approved by the empress to be near her daughters.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: JamesAPrattIII on March 27, 2014, 06:30:50 PM
I have some information on the regiment Olga A was honorary Colonel of the 12th Akatisky Hussars from the Osprey book The Russian Civil War (2) the White Armies. Part of this regiment joined the White Volunteer Army later the Armed Forces of South Russia sometime in the 1918 period as part of it's 1st cavalry division. Do to losses it later made part of the General kaledin composite cavalry regiment. It served with the White forces until the final evacuation from the Crimea. When Olga A died there were a number of former officer of this unit who went to her funeral.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on May 20, 2014, 10:32:24 PM
I found this wonderful Pinterest page in a google search recently. I'm not on pinterest, but this might be a reason to join! Some of the information is incorrect (and ignore the first photo, which is actually of Olga Nikolaevna!) but there are many wonderful photos, some I've never seen before - such as the one with Xenia with Princess Irina and Prince Andrei, together with Olga, Guri and Tikhon!

http://www.pinterest.com/bepjes71/grand-duchess-olga-alexandrovna/
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: edubs31 on May 20, 2014, 11:16:40 PM
Very nice collection of photos. Is that color photo of her as an older lady well known? I don't recall seeing it, although admittedly I've seen far fewer photos of the children of Alexander III as oppose to those of of Nicholas II. It's very good quality especially given the time period, late-1950s I'm guessing? (The one next to it is labeled as having been from mid-1958 and look to have been taken around the same period..
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Ally Kumari on May 22, 2014, 03:29:19 AM
Thank you very much for the link! There are definitely some photos which are new to me - I just have a question. Is this picture real or photoshopped?

http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/8d/79/ad/8d79ad19448692d12162bcc565d7019d.jpg
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Svetabel on May 22, 2014, 06:10:28 AM
Thank you very much for the link! There are definitely some photos which are new to me - I just have a question. Is this picture real or photoshopped?

http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/8d/79/ad/8d79ad19448692d12162bcc565d7019d.jpg

That's a photoshop, there is link somehwere on Facebook group on Olga A. to the real photo.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: katmaxoz on May 22, 2014, 07:38:55 PM
Thank you very much for the link! There are definitely some photos which are new to me - I just have a question. Is this picture real or photoshopped?

http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/8d/79/ad/8d79ad19448692d12162bcc565d7019d.jpg

That's a photoshop, there is link somehwere on Facebook group on Olga A. to the real photo.

That's interesting. I hadn't realised it was photoshopped. However, the picture always puzzled me. She looks like she is in a wedding dress, however her first wedding was a formal Romanov wedding in court dress wasn't it? and her second one was in wartime and a very simple well known outfit.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on May 22, 2014, 08:37:18 PM
Thank you very much for the link! There are definitely some photos which are new to me - I just have a question. Is this picture real or photoshopped?

http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/8d/79/ad/8d79ad19448692d12162bcc565d7019d.jpg

That's a photoshop, there is link somehwere on Facebook group on Olga A. to the real photo.

Here's the link: http://markopolio-stock.deviantart.com/art/Vintage-Family-Photos-16-37936866
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on May 23, 2014, 12:11:31 AM
Thank you very much for the link! There are definitely some photos which are new to me - I just have a question. Is this picture real or photoshopped?

http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/8d/79/ad/8d79ad19448692d12162bcc565d7019d.jpg

It was made by DA´s VioletOwl

http://violetowl.deviantart.com/art/Olga-s-wedding-179962916

She put a mark on her work but it was, on purpose, cropped. Sad, because its an awesome work!
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: katmaxoz on May 25, 2014, 03:34:05 PM
She did an excellent job. Its a good example of how these Photoshopped images end up circling the net as the real thing.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on May 25, 2014, 09:17:42 PM
Indeed...A good job. Wonder if Olga would have liked that dress ? It was too Edwardian for her taste.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on May 26, 2014, 05:37:43 PM
But she worn that kind of gown. I can remember when posed with Peter during the engagement session. It cant be more edwardian like that!

http://www.gogmsite.net/_Media/1900-1901-olga-and-her-3.jpeg
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on May 26, 2014, 06:16:20 PM
I don't think she wore what she liked for occasions....she barely tolerated the occasions!
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on May 27, 2014, 09:17:55 PM
She had her duty to her family.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on May 27, 2014, 09:46:41 PM
And she performed it. I'm saying her clothing tastes ran away from the elaborate, bejewelled and ornate.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on May 27, 2014, 11:56:54 PM
Ohh yes, of course, but seeing images of her, she was always on fashion...sober style, but in fashion in the end, in special during the "edwardian" period and late victorian.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Ally Kumari on May 30, 2014, 08:54:32 AM
So Olga Alexandrovna did not wear the traditional court dress and jewellery at her wedding? Why? She was a Grand Duchess..... was it because she was not marrying into a ruling house?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Превед on May 30, 2014, 09:10:07 AM
So Olga Alexandrovna did not wear the traditional court dress and jewellery at her wedding? Why? She was a Grand Duchess..... was it because she was not marrying into a ruling house?

Pluss wartime austerity, it was her second marriage and the venue was Kiev. All good reasons for a discreet, low-key wedding.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Ally Kumari on May 30, 2014, 02:41:53 PM
No I actually meant her first wedding. I do not recall ever seeing a picture of her in a wedding dress, apart from a photo from 25 Chapter of my life, which is labeled as "wedding day" (which can of course mean she changed during the day).
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on May 31, 2014, 03:41:28 PM
In the picture of Olga's first weeding day, who is the tall bearded man with her?

On the second wedding day, Olga is. Wearing an outfit which suits her, and she and Nikolai look happy (as they undoubtedly were!)

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Превед on May 31, 2014, 04:46:06 PM
No I actually meant her first wedding.
Ah, OK, I see.

was it because she was not marrying into a ruling house?

A non-reigning line, but the Russian Oldenburgs were members of the ruling grand-ducal house of Oldenburg. When you start to think about it, it's confusing: They were foreign royals, the equals of the IF, but at the same time Russian subjects? Because they were not treated as foreigners / aliens.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on May 31, 2014, 11:03:25 PM
In the picture of Olga's first weeding day, who is the tall bearded man with her?

On the second wedding day, Olga is. Wearing an outfit which suits her, and she and Nikolai look happy (as they undoubtedly were!)

Ann

Is that not Sandro? I believe I have seen this photo with a caption that identifies him as Sandro.

Nikolai always looks very stoic to me in photos. I'm sure he was happy, though it's not outwardly obvious to me. ; )
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on June 01, 2014, 03:26:31 AM
Yes, now I think of it, that is Sandro.

Nikolai comes across as a rather serious-minded man. He looks content in his pictures with Olga and the boys, rather than beaming.

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 01, 2014, 10:16:04 PM
It would be nice to know Nicholai's feelings.
Title: Nikolai Kulikovsky's ranks
Post by: historyfan on July 09, 2014, 08:48:27 AM
Sometimes Nikolai Kulikovsky is referred to as "captain", sometimes as "colonel". It's been impossible for me to find dates of his promotions, or what ranks he was promoted to at those times. I can't even tell if he was a captain or a colonel at the time of his marriage to Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna. If he was a captain, when was there time for him to attain the rank of colonel between November 1916 (when the marriage took place) and March/April of 1917 (when the Revolution began and he went with his wife and her family to the Crimea)?

Can anyone help me with that? (Even if it's approximate.)

Thanks!
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Maria Sisi on July 10, 2014, 01:13:23 AM
Olga was such a fascinating person despite only being a witness and not much of a player to history.  

I recently purchased a 1965 copy of "The Last Grand Duchess" and while I'm only half way though it I find myself really enjoying it and admiring her a lot. So far its really living up to its hype! She really comes off as the complete opposite of what everyone thinks a Romanov is like yet there is no mistaking she is one if that makes any sense. The mini antidotes are fantastic and its the little things she remembers that makes the book so precious. I especially love the story of George's parrot and how it would always attack the boys tutor, Mr. Heath, and mock his accent or the inside joke the siblings shared about Nicky's sacrilege and any good food being 'immorally good'. She really put a human face on everyone that you wouldn't get in a history book.

Despite so much terrible things happening in her life she really did pick herself up and survive. Sometimes when you look at a photograph of someone and their smiling you can tell the smile doesn't always reach their eyes yet with Olga you can tell they do. She was a proud yet humble woman who accepted what was handed to her and make the best out of it when others would have fallen.    

It was very sad to me that she wasn't told about her sister's death. I know Olga herself was in poor health and it was probably for the best but it still feels terrible. Considering they were the last two of their family and after everything they had been though for them to die so far apart and not know is to me tragic.

It's also amazing thinking about where she died. I know she didn't want to accept any charity but does anyone know if her sons did for anything her? I get the impression that once they grew up they moved out and after her husband died Olga was all on her own. I know she had her friends and support from the Russian émigré community but it seems shocking to me that they would let their mother spend her last days above a beauty salon.

Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 13, 2014, 09:38:34 PM
I think Olga had very complex relationships with her family. Her relationship with her mother was loving but based upon approval. I do not like the way she threw Misha to the lions when his affair with Madame Olga Welfret was discovered. Olga had a less complicated relationship with her brother Nicky and gained the approval of even Alicky.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Maria Sisi on July 14, 2014, 01:41:53 AM
I do think she was kind of hypocritical in her treatment of Michael and his affair considering her own situation. If she had gotten the divorce from Peter when she first wanted it she would most certainly have married Nikolai Kulikovsky sooner then she did and that probably would have hurt the Romanov prestige pretty badly too. The sister of the Tsar marrying a commoner and a man in her husband's regiment doesn't look very good.

I remember reading somewhere that she said she never met Natalia before the scandal yet there is clear evidence in picture that she did. So I guess Olga proved she was human and not a saint. Does anyone know if Olga met Natalia and her nephew outside that one time Maria Feodorovna did? I'm guessing Olga was there when they met her mother but were there other times they met?

I think Olga kind of worshiped Nicholas and viewed him like a father due to the big age gap whereas Michael was closer in age and her playmate through childhood so she seem to have different standards for them. I also think Alexandra's shyness and desire for quietness fit better with Olga's personality and that's why unlike other Romanovs she was able to connect with her. Olga didn't like large gatherings and preferred more simple things too so they connected.

It's interesting in her book she seems to almost absolve all blame from Nicholas and Alexandra and instead blames everyone else. It's true the other Romanovs could have done more to help and the advisors could have been a little less reactionary and Russia's allies could have helped more to avoid WWI but Nicholas and Alexandra themselves did cause a lot of the problems too. Many times family members and advisors were reacting to Nicholas and Alexandra's own actions so they share a huge part of the blame too yet Olga seems to portray them as complete innocents.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 17, 2014, 05:03:19 AM
I don't think she knew much about the business of ruling. Her opinion is only those of a loyal subject and sister. Miechen or Ducky would have volumes more to say on that subject though.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Maria Sisi on July 19, 2014, 02:25:53 PM
Has anyone ever visited Olga's grave in Toronto? There's a plaque at the base of the gravesite that tells the story of her life. Maybe someone could at least summarize what it says.

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_PHQzNnFWtsI/TO3hZTJji3I/AAAAAAAAAlM/8GR37CDxU44/s640/DSC01138.JPG)

This is the plaque I'm talking about which unfortunately is too small to read.



Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Maria Sisi on July 19, 2014, 02:39:41 PM
This is a very pretty photo of Olga in the last years of her life. It was taken in 1959 when Queen Elizabeth visited Toronto and Olga was invited to a luncheon on Britannia.

(http://orthodoxcanada.ca/images/7/7d/Grand-Duchess-Olga-June-1959.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Inok Nikolai on July 19, 2014, 03:36:48 PM
Has anyone ever visited Olga's grave in Toronto? There's a plaque at the base of the gravesite that tells the story of her life. Maybe someone could at least summarize what it says.

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_PHQzNnFWtsI/TO3hZTJji3I/AAAAAAAAAlM/8GR37CDxU44/s640/DSC01138.JPG)

This is the plaque I'm talking about which unfortunately is too small to read.


See:

http://torontoist.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/20121101olga2.jpg

The text reads as follows:

Her Imperial Highness Grand Duchess
Olga Alexandrovna of Russia

June 14, 1882 – November 24 1960

Her Imperial Highness Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna
 was born at Peterhof Palace in Russia. She was the youngest
 daughter of Their Majesties Emperor Alexander III and
 Empress Maria Feodorovna, Princess Dagmar of Denmark,
 a sister of Tsar Nicholas II, a niece of Their Majesties
 King Edward VII and Queen Alexandra of Great Britain,
 a cousin of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, and
 closely related to all Royal Houses in Europe. She
 survived the revolutionary slaughter of the Royal Family
 in 1918 and escaped in 1920 from Russia to Denmark.
 In 1948 she moved to Cooksville, Ontario, Canada.
 Colonel Nicholas Kulikovsky was the beloved husband of
 Her Imperial Highness Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna.

“The Last Grand Duchess of Russia”
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Maria Sisi on July 19, 2014, 04:19:30 PM
Thank you very much Inok Nikolai!

The whole cousin thing kind of confuses me once we get past first ones but what cousins are Olga and Elizabeth?

Christian IX - Alexandra - George V - George VI - Elizabeth

Christian IX - Maria - Olga

I think first cousins twice removed or something like that, I don't know. Is there any other bloodline connection between them?

Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Maria Sisi on July 20, 2014, 12:06:45 AM
Olga with Alexei, Maria and Anastasia during the war.

(http://www.tumblr.com/photo/1280/romanovs/553316321/1/tumblr_l1jcrp5zzL1qa2zhn)

I wonder if this was the last time she ever saw them.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Maria Sisi on July 20, 2014, 01:24:09 PM
Olga with her Danish cousins Princes Aage, Erik  and Axel

(http://37.media.tumblr.com/9b3d1e691ac73f9255b62bf0295ccf7d/tumblr_n45ejmX5IZ1rlm2lro1_500.png)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Arkhimago on July 20, 2014, 04:40:13 PM
Maria:

HIH Grand Duchess Olga and HM Queen Elizabeth II are cousins though the formers mother.

The Dowager Empress Marie of Russia was the sister of Queen Alexandra, (consort of King Edward VII of Great Britain) and was thusly the great grandmother of QEII.
When the Queen was in Canada for the 1959 opening of the St. Lawrence Seaway, GD Olga was invited to a luncheon aboard Britannia. There was concern that she might be overlooked. However HM greeted her immediately and spent more time chatting with her over lunch than to anyone else.
 
Grand Duchess Olga later sent one of her oil landscapes to the Queen as a memento, and they corresponded by mail both before and after.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The whole cousin thing kind of confuses me once we get past first ones but what cousins are Olga and Elizabeth?

Christian IX - Alexandra - George V - George VI - Elizabeth

Christian IX - Maria - Olga

I think first cousins twice removed or something like that, I don't know. Is there any other bloodline connection between them?


[/quote]
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on July 21, 2014, 03:32:39 AM
There will doubtless be several other connections between the Queen and Olga A, but that via Queen Alexandra and Marie F is the most direct.

The Duke of Edinburgh is also related to Olga A in the same degree through his grandfather, George I of Greece, who was a brother of both Alexandra and Marie F. Plus his grandmother, Olga of Greece, was a Romanov.

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Maria Sisi on July 21, 2014, 01:25:40 PM
Yes, I remember reading in "The Last Grand Duchess", that once when Queen Olga visited Maria Feodorovna at Hvidøre she brought Prince Philip with her, and Olga gave him cookies.

It's tiny little stories like that, that make you realize just how closely these people are related, even if it isn't as direct.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: grandduchessella on July 21, 2014, 02:56:48 PM
Thank you very much Inok Nikolai!

The whole cousin thing kind of confuses me once we get past first ones but what cousins are Olga and Elizabeth?

Christian IX - Alexandra - George V - George VI - Elizabeth

Christian IX - Maria - Olga

I think first cousins twice removed or something like that, I don't know. Is there any other bloodline connection between them?



Maria--Olga was first cousin to George V (the Queen's grandfather) which makes her a first cousin twice removed to Elizabeth II. You can look at the direct cousin relationship (Olga & George) and the count the 'removes'--two in this case--to figure it out if that makes sense. Her sons would have been second cousins (the direct relationship) to George VI and Elizabeth would be their second cousin, once removed, for instance. And the Kulikovsky grandchildren would be Elizabeth's direct cousinship--so third cousins. Hope that provides some clarity.
:)

Other than that, there is probably only a very removed blood relationship as the Romanovs and British royals rarely intermarried. There's probably some 6, 7 or 8th cousin relationship somewhere back in the Hesse line or something though.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Maria Sisi on July 21, 2014, 03:22:46 PM
Thank you grandduchessella. It clears things up a lot
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on August 02, 2014, 09:29:15 PM
Well, here I am with Helen Rappaport's "Romanov Sisters", which I just got today! As is my (perhaps odd) custom when I get a new book, I flipped it open and read random pages. Sort of my "warm up". Anyway, I came across this rather uncharitable view of GD Olga, from pages 212-213:

"...[OTMA] are only granted a Sunday afternoon at Olga [Alexandrovna]'s where they play des petits jeux [little games] with officers: now why this is considered convenable [appropriate] is a real puzzle to us all as Olga is a tomboy without any manners and her surroundings always second rate. She never sees the real society because it bores her to put on better manners." (quoted from letter from Marie, Duchess of Coburg, to her daughter Crown Princess Marie of Romania) (bold font denotes my additions, as opposed to those in the book)

"Indeed the duchess talked of how offended Maria Feodorovna was that her granddaughters spent so little time with her when in St Petersburg, preferring to pass their Sundays 'under the sole chaperonage of that madcap [aunt] Olga...for dinner and romps with the officers.'"

My reaction: Humph! Tomboy? Madcap? : /
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Svetabel on August 03, 2014, 02:03:25 AM

"...[OTMA] are only granted a Sunday afternoon at Olga [Alexandrovna]'s where they play des petits jeux [little games] with officers: now why this is considered convenable [appropriate] is a real puzzle to us all as Olga is a tomboy without any manners and her surroundings always second rate. She never sees the real society because it bores her to put on better manners." (quoted from letter from Marie, Duchess of Coburg, to her daughter Crown Princess Marie of Romania) (bold font denotes my additions, as opposed to those in the book)

"Indeed the duchess talked of how offended Maria Feodorovna was that her granddaughters spent so little time with her when in St Petersburg, preferring to pass their Sundays 'under the sole chaperonage of that madcap [aunt] Olga...for dinner and romps with the officers.'"

My reaction: Humph! Tomboy? Madcap? : /

Duchess Marie of Coburg was a snob first of all. She was too much well-bred, educated and even sophisticated to understand sometimes simple human desires such as to be free from conventions of "real society" life. Yes, Olga was a wild child in her eyes but not a madcap definitely : just a woman with a big heart and understanding what is like a life in the palace "cell"...Also The main boss of OTMA's actions was their mother - it was definitely her permission where to go: to grandmother and her "real society" or to Aunt Olga with her childish games. BTW, the society at Olga was not that second rate - the same nobles from 1st rate families.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on August 03, 2014, 03:47:34 AM
Given that Olga was at the time still married to Peter of Oldenburg, I very much doubt whether the society gathered at her house was in any way second- rate. I imagine the officers the girls met there were handpick end young men from leading families.

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on August 03, 2014, 09:16:20 PM
Yes indeed - "snob" is definitely the first word to come to mind. Just who would be considered "real society"?

I can't help but be a little incredulous that Marie of Coburg is criticizing Empress Alexandra's mothering - to the daughter whose own personal life lent much fodder for gossip!
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 04, 2014, 01:13:27 AM
Well...Alicky went the other extreme and so her daughters were isolated from society. They could only form inappropriate attachments from guards & soldiers. Had she taken a leaf from Marie of Coburg's book at least 2 of her daughters may have survived and safely married.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Maria Sisi on August 13, 2014, 02:43:59 PM
I have never seen this photo of Olga before
(http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/54/5f/3f/545f3f52aa99a86d1aa30dfdcb9c18e7.jpg)
Via Irina & Felix

Letter and drawing from Olga to her father from Gatchina.
(http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/b4/96/e9/b496e9039a4fc256e74be44d43b3fb03.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on August 14, 2014, 03:44:09 AM
Any idea how old Olga was when she wrote that letter (interesting that she wrote it in English)? I'm guessing 10 or so from the tone and handwriting, but the drawings are very good for that sort of age.

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: rudy3 on August 14, 2014, 06:30:22 AM
Could it be this was writing paper with printed pictures?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on August 14, 2014, 07:56:15 AM
I'm not sure that she drew the pictures.

Her penmanship as a child is better than mine has ever been. I wonder if she was "graded" on the letter, as part of her English instruction?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Maria Sisi on August 14, 2014, 01:57:52 PM
I wonder if she was "graded" on the letter, as part of her English instruction?

In "The Last Grand Duchess" Ian Vorres said because of their rank they received no grades and their professors weren't even allowed to ask them questions.

Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: wakas on August 14, 2014, 02:48:27 PM
Quote
Could it be this was writing paper with printed pictures?
I think you're right. Seems to me the most likely explanation, unless the drawings were made by someone else for her.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Suzanne on November 26, 2014, 11:37:14 PM
Olga's last home is up for sale in Toronto - I'm quoted in this article in the Toronto Star (Carolyn Harris) about Olga's life in Canada.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2014/11/25/shabby_toronto_apartment_was_once_home_to_russias_grand_duchess_olga.html

Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Ally Kumari on December 02, 2014, 03:23:03 PM
Olga Alexandrovna

(http://40.media.tumblr.com/d4ff5b2cd4247e78283b4232cb58db56/tumblr_nfsn4sCbHt1rh07xwo1_1280.jpg)

Found on on of the VK sites
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Ally Kumari on December 23, 2014, 02:46:40 PM
(http://40.media.tumblr.com/b80ac3f4e2a8f1cfcb72710c30d44928/tumblr_nh1z0vV7VA1rh07xwo1_1280.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 27, 2014, 11:12:33 PM
Definitely her father's daughter.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Maria Sisi on January 09, 2015, 08:23:20 PM
Olga with her grandchildren

(http://41.media.tumblr.com/ef61b253cb50460147c3b88f5e5048e8/tumblr_ngc22wwxIi1t5k7qjo1_500.jpg)
the-last-tsar

Olga with her brother in law Alexander Mikhailovich

(http://40.media.tumblr.com/adc96696677b3ea1dd5999cd48dde95a/tumblr_ngaaxjF8Ag1r71ilwo1_500.jpg)
ohsoromanov
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Ally Kumari on January 10, 2015, 01:06:32 PM
Grand Duchess Olga at Gatchina

(http://culture.gatchina.ru/sites/default/files/news/1_-_kopiya.jpg)

(http://culture.gatchina.ru/sites/default/files/news/8_-_kopiya.jpg)

Source http://culture.gatchina.ru/content/vozvrashchenie-v-gatchinskiy-dvorec
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on January 11, 2015, 06:49:47 AM
Who are the people with her?

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Ally Kumari on January 11, 2015, 07:43:06 AM
The website labels the lady in the first picture merely as "freilina" (so it´s lady-in-waitin or maid-of-honor. Not sure which one is the more correct). In the second picture they are supposedly Kyril Vladimirovich and Xenia Alexandrovna.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on January 12, 2015, 06:53:24 AM
Thanks.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Ally Kumari on January 17, 2015, 03:03:42 PM
(http://b.bimg.dk/node-images/432/4/800x600-u/4432376-.jpg)

dinby.dk
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on January 18, 2015, 08:46:32 PM
I always wish I knew who the photographers were in photos, like the beautiful one above.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Romanov_Fan19 on January 21, 2015, 02:31:18 PM
did she ever do an interview
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Maria the Beautiful on January 22, 2015, 08:12:46 PM
did she ever do an interview
I devour everything I can find written about OA and the closest I've found to an interview would be Ian Vorres book The Last Grand Duchess.  He had quite a close friendship with her in her lasts years/months.   She seemed to trust him  didn't seem to shy away from answering his questions or talking about sensitive subjects.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: historyfan on January 26, 2015, 09:59:37 PM
I do too, Maria. : ) I think you're right about Ian Vorres' book being the closest thing she did to an interview - that, and the series of articles she wrote for a Danish newspaper in the early 1940s, which later became "25 Chapters Of My Life".
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Ally Kumari on July 06, 2015, 06:36:49 AM
This one is new to me

(http://data13.gallery.ru/albums/gallery/232718--39296137-m750x740-u99bf8.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Maria the Beautiful on July 06, 2015, 10:55:59 AM
What a sweet photo.  I assume that's one of her grandchildren with her.   When I see these photos of OA in her later years I can't help but wonder what memories she had stored in her mind of her past life.   I wonder if she dreamed dreams of her past life often and whether they were happy or sad dreams.  I know this is silly, but she was a witness to so much grandeur and so much horror, I wish she had left more detailed memoirs.  
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Alexandre Mikhaelovitch on July 14, 2015, 05:29:23 PM
Auction sale in Monte-Carlo offers russian works of art , historical memorabilia, Fabergé & Icons on 23rd July, 2015 , of these 2 watercolors of Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna :

(http://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2015/07/15//1507151225025012513443978.png) (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=1507151225025012513443978.png)
©HVMC

There are too beautiful imprial family portraits .

Here the catalogue link : http://s309339927.onlinehome.fr/divers/HDVMC_ARUSSE_23072015.pdf

Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Ally Kumari on October 03, 2015, 02:06:53 AM
What a lovely smile

(http://cs625121.vk.me/v625121079/3fe15/ma3DcMEEeoc.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: JamesAPrattIII on October 16, 2015, 05:46:54 PM
I have a question in flipping through the book "The Nicky Sunny Letters" Alexandra writes Nicholas on 11 September 1916 (OS) the Olga's sanitary train was bombarded some damaged but no casualties. Is this Olga A? I know she had a hospital train. I don't think it was Olga N since there is know mention of it in her diary. The only other Olga it could be was Queen Olga of Greece would did live in Russia during WW I. Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: JamesAPrattIII on November 08, 2015, 09:09:15 PM
In reading Furman's book on all their letters it was Olga A's sanitary train that got bombed.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Maria Sisi on November 25, 2015, 11:39:13 PM
Apparently Olga's grandson, Leonid Kulikovsky, passed away in Australia

(http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03509/Princess_Olga_Alex_3509564b.jpg)
Olga with Leonid and his sister Ksenia

Quote
A great-grandson of Russia’s Tsar Alexander III has died in a small town in outback Australia but his remains were left in a morgue for two months because authorities were unaware of his identity.

Leonid Kulikovsky, 72, a distant relative of both the Queen and Prince Philip, died while walking his dog at a caravan park on September 27 in Katherine, a remote town in the Northern Territory, where he lived alone.

A member of Russia’s exiled Romanov family, he was the son of Guriy, whose mother was Grand Princess Olga, the youngest daughter of Emperor Alexander III, Russia’s penultimate Tsar.

His identity was only discovered after the head of Russia’s Orthodox Church in Australia visited Moscow recently and was told a member of the Romanov family had died in the Northern Territory. The funeral will take place in the territory next Monday following a request by his sister, who lives in Denmark.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/australia/12015691/Great-grandson-of-Russian-tsar-dies-alone-in-Australia.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/australia/12015691/Great-grandson-of-Russian-tsar-dies-alone-in-Australia.html)
http://www.ntnews.com.au/news/only-in-the-territory/great-grandson-of-tsar-found-dead-after-walking-his-dog-but-nobody-knew-who-he-was/story-fnk2tg5d-1227622811537 (http://www.ntnews.com.au/news/only-in-the-territory/great-grandson-of-tsar-found-dead-after-walking-his-dog-but-nobody-knew-who-he-was/story-fnk2tg5d-1227622811537)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: newfan on November 30, 2015, 01:13:45 AM
Any info on Grand duchess Olga's husband Kulikovsky family? Did he have any siblings? Any of them escaped Russia ?
There is lots info on Grand Duchess Olga but not much about her husband.
The Russian wiki says that Nikolai Kulikovsky father was at the Christining of his grandson Tihon in Crimea
Thank you
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Превед on November 30, 2015, 01:30:12 PM
Any info on Grand duchess Olga's husband Kulikovsky family? Did he have any siblings? Any of them escaped Russia ?
Looks like he was his parents' only child. They had large landholdings and his father was apparently a very harsh landowner in frequent, violent conflict with his peasants.
See http://ru.rodovid.org/wk/%D0%97%D0%B0%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%8C:808706 (http://ru.rodovid.org/wk/%D0%97%D0%B0%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%8C:808706)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: newfan on November 30, 2015, 11:16:38 PM
Thank you Preved
My reading in Russian is very slow so it will take me a while to read it. :)
It's very interesting that nobody from his family have kept in touch with Leonid
I was always interested in GD Olga and her husband. All the years in Denmark with the old empress even thou she didn't like Olgas husband because of his  status. But they lived with her it must of been a strange living
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on December 01, 2015, 03:01:53 AM
Nikolai Kulikovsky seems to have reacted against his father rather than following his example.

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Inok Nikolai on December 06, 2015, 12:27:48 PM
Any info on Grand duchess Olga's husband Kulikovsky family? Did he have any siblings? Any of them escaped Russia ?
There is lots info on Grand Duchess Olga but not much about her husband.
The Russian wiki says that Nikolai Kulikovsky father was at the Christining of his grandson Tihon in Crimea
Thank you

Paul Gilbert just posted an article on the family:
http://www.angelfire.com/pa/ImperialRussian/blog/index.blog/1472423/who-are-the-kulikovskys/
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on December 06, 2015, 12:47:06 PM
Interesting article, but ultimately about the dispute between Maria Vladimirovna and the other Romanovs rather than about the Kulikovskys!

Interesting to note that Paul Kulikovsky bears quite a resemblance to Nikolai.

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Inok Nikolai on December 06, 2015, 04:30:29 PM
Interesting article, but ultimately about the dispute between Maria Vladimirovna and the other Romanovs rather than about the Kulikovskys!

Interesting to note that Paul Kulikovsky bears quite a resemblance to Nikolai.

Ann

Yes, it is more about the inner-family dispute.
When I posted the link, I had not yet read the article myself.
I was expecting it to be a simple relating of the facts.
Oh well...
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Marie Valerie on December 17, 2015, 10:03:00 AM
Is Olgas daughter-in-law Ruth Schwartz Kulikovsky, born 1921, still alive?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: newfan on December 18, 2015, 02:57:49 AM
I read that she died not long ago
Here is a link of his obituary in Australian newspaper
http://www.smh.com.au/comment/obituaries/leonid-kulikovsky-greatgrandson-of-a-russian-tsar-20151210-gll3pf.html
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: JamesAPrattIII on October 08, 2016, 12:47:20 PM
Does Olga A mention in any of her books about her Sanitary train being bombed in 1916?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Arkhimago on October 08, 2016, 01:08:21 PM
Her hospital train WAS bombed but I believe she was not onboard at that time. I only have a pre-print proof draft of Vorres book(which I have not looked at in awhile?) where I believe it was mentioned? Not sure how or if it appeared in the final version or the reprint?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: JamesAPrattIII on October 10, 2016, 03:35:04 PM
How about the other books:
25 chapters of my life

Life at War 1914-1918 the Photos, Paintings and Letters of Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrova

The incident is mentioned in Alexandra's 11 Sept 1916 letter to Nicholas no one was hurt
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Joanna on November 08, 2016, 05:33:47 PM
Grand Duchess Olga's attendants in her palace on Sergievskaya Ul.

https://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.ca/2016/11/grand-duchess-attendants.html

Joanna
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Ally Kumari on November 25, 2016, 02:39:13 PM
Olga, Xenia, Mikhail, Sandro and Maria Georgievna

(https://66.media.tumblr.com/62095a5ba12ff41b2bd6bdc75d94c39f/tumblr_oh7r03o0w31rh07xwo4_1280.jpg)
Title: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna of Russia
Post by: Cantor Tany on January 23, 2017, 04:34:57 PM
I have been looking for the following book:  25 Chapters of My Life: The Memoirs of Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna
I found it on Amazon but it is about $300.00 has a reprint ever been made of this?  Thanks for your help
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna of Russia
Post by: JGP on January 23, 2017, 09:13:59 PM
I have been looking for the following book:  25 Chapters of My Life: The Memoirs of Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna
I found it on Amazon but it is about $300.00 has a reprint ever been made of this?  Thanks for your help

Are you in the USA?  I am gobsmacked by the price of $300.  I don't know about a reprint but it is about £40 pounds on Amazon in the UK which is considerably less.  Kindle App download and purchase would only set you back about $10 but you probably already know that.  It is a good read; I enjoyed it.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Ally Kumari on February 18, 2017, 01:20:16 PM
I suggest that you keep an eye on THIS WEBSITE (https://www.bookdepository.com/25-Chapters-of-My-Life-Olg-Alexandrovn-Paul-Kulikovsky-Sue-Woolmans-Karen-Roth-Nicholls/9781906775162). Currently the book is out of stock, but Bookdepository usually renews their stocks in time, and the prize for the book is around 12 or so dollars then.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Ally Kumari on March 04, 2017, 02:31:52 AM
Olga Alexandrovna during the war

(https://pp.userapi.com/c639619/v639619079/b1ac/qMdORN1KukI.jpg)

(https://pp.userapi.com/c639619/v639619079/b1a4/bbILUhDb-_M.jpg)

(https://pp.userapi.com/c639619/v639619079/b19c/ASzuYqUY1_g.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Ally Kumari on March 04, 2017, 02:32:53 AM
(https://pp.userapi.com/c639619/v639619079/b194/S5B29hW6iF0.jpg)

(https://pp.userapi.com/c639619/v639619079/b18c/5MwOc_v9JKs.jpg)

(https://pp.userapi.com/c639619/v639619079/b185/dDglYYta2FI.jpg)

All the photos shared I found here https://vk.com/house_of_romanov
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Ally Kumari on March 04, 2017, 02:33:55 AM
I suggest that you keep an eye on THIS WEBSITE (https://www.bookdepository.com/25-Chapters-of-My-Life-Olg-Alexandrovn-Paul-Kulikovsky-Sue-Woolmans-Karen-Roth-Nicholls/9781906775162). Currently the book is out of stock, but Bookdepository usually renews their stocks in time, and the prize for the book is around 12 or so dollars then.

BUMP!!!! This book is in stock now!!! For 23.28 american dollars! Snatch it while you can!
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Ally Kumari on March 11, 2017, 04:40:00 AM
I have seen many pictures from this photo session, but never this particular one

(https://pp.userapi.com/c639619/v639619079/dbd1/vdRs5oFQRlU.jpg)
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Ellie on March 21, 2017, 07:44:58 AM
One of Olga's grandchildren - by Guri - ended up in Australia - not a happy story.

http://rbth.com/multimedia/people/2015/12/17/a-romanov-in-the-australian-outback_552005
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Ally Kumari on April 13, 2017, 06:50:50 AM
(https://pp.userapi.com/c836622/v836622079/3b49d/9bD-b_TXRzI.jpg)

(https://pp.userapi.com/c836622/v836622079/3b4a5/8JEId0vwocE.jpg)

Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Inok Nikolai on May 27, 2017, 04:37:15 PM
Not sure where best to post this, so:

A friend just sent this to me.

G.D. Olga A.'s letters up for auction:

Russian duchess' letters show fear for Romanovs' safety
 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4545266/Russian-duchess-letters-fear-Romanovs-safety.html
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Inok Nikolai on May 27, 2017, 04:49:02 PM
The catalog:
https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/william-george-auctions/catalogue-id-wi410940/lot-8715a39b-a48e-4df4-868e-a76e00f4d485
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Maria the Beautiful on May 27, 2017, 05:36:04 PM
I hope the buyer has them published!  Thanks for posting Inok.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Inok Nikolai on May 28, 2017, 03:57:37 PM
Well, actually, I heard that they are being sold now, before a planned book comes out.

And I think that the facts are a bit garbled in the account. A grandson of G.D. Olga would not have the letters which she had written to her sister. The grandson is most likely one of G. D. Xenia's, don't you think?
Nor are these letters newly discovered.
I can't find the reference right now, but they surfaced several years ago, but are only now being put up for auction.

It also seems a bit of an exaggeration to say that G. D. Olga "hated" the British in general.

Still, it's great to have this material available -- more threads in the Romanov tapestry.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Forum Admin on May 28, 2017, 04:14:49 PM
You are correct, Xenia's grandchildren kept all of those letters, from Olga and Marie Feodorovna as well.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Inok Nikolai on May 29, 2017, 09:05:39 AM
Fine, but can anyone please tell us where are all the letters which the Imperial Family wrote to G. D. Olga A. from captivity?
Their letters to G. D. Xenia are in the Hoover Institution in Stanford CA.
From the letters to her and others, it is obvious that they wrote to G. D. Olga often too.
So where are those letters? They are never cited or mentioned.
Did she lose them while fleeing across South Russia?

Years ago we asked both Tikhon and Gury Kulikovsky, her sons, but they neither had those letters, nor knew their whereabouts.

Any clues?
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Kalafrana on May 29, 2017, 09:34:33 AM
I like the picture of Olga A at the entrance to the tent. When and where was it taken?

Somehow it's very Olga A.

Ann
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: thebelgianhare on June 20, 2017, 09:24:42 AM
more and more we are seeing Olga A's personality coming out
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Inok Nikolai on March 27, 2018, 04:58:39 PM
How about this one from Paul Gilbert's site:

G.D. Xenia and G.D. Olga clasping hands while popping out of the ship's hatches?
https://royalrussia.news/2018/03/24/this-week-in-the-news-the-romanovs-and-imperial-russia-9/

Scroll down.
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: JamesAPrattIII on March 23, 2019, 09:58:41 PM
If you go on youtube you will find some presentations on Olga A
Title: Re: Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna, discussion and pictures Part 2
Post by: Sanochka on March 25, 2019, 10:39:49 AM
What a wonderful photo of Olga and Xenia.  Thank you for posting the link, Inok Nikolai.